Where to find Aimee:
- Instagram: @vibrancenutrition
- Nutrition Coaching: vibrancenutrition.com
- Podcast on Nutrition: Blasphemous Nutrition
- Substack on Nomadic Life: NomadicNomMom
Where to find Rebecca:
- Instagram and her life in Paris: @beseriouslyhappy
- Podcast for Interior Design-preneurs: Stuff Interior Designers Need to Know
- Biz Coaching for Interior Designers: seriouslyhappy.com
- Book on Interior Design Psychology: Happy Starts at Home
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Bonjola, a podcastabout two women, Aimee and
Rebecca, who each moved from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats, Aimee to Spainand Rebecca to France.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure, encourage you tofollow your own move abroad
dreams, and remind you thatyou're not alone when the going
gets tough.
Enjoy.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (00:23):
Bonjola, Rebecca,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1 (00:24):
Bonjola, Aimee.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (00:26):
how are you doing?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (00:27):
You know, um, as I was mentioning to
you off air, I feel like my freefall has turned into a trust
fall.
So I'm feeling on the up and up.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (00:37):
So it Sounds like the HR department
entered your brain and did alittle, uh, community exercise
in there to get all, you know,the trust fall, the trust fall.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (00:46):
Yeah, I mean, it is a trust fall, like
into my own waiting arms.
It is very meta.
Yeah,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (00:52):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (00:53):
Um, but it's a definite improved
feeling compared to I'm justjumping up a high dive and
hoping water's at the bottom.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (01:01):
For sure.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (01:03):
I think that, um, it's coming from
a lot of directions.
I've had some shoppingsuccesses.
We've had some healthcaresuccesses.
We've had bank accountsuccesses.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (01:14):
Holy crap.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (01:15):
95 percent of the way to being able
to say I hold a French bankaccount.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (01:20):
Oh my gosh.
Massive victory.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (01:22):
Yeah.
So like nothing, nothing'sactually done.
Everything's at about 95%, butthat is huge progress.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (01:31):
Yeah.
Well, when you're in stasis forso long, those tiny slivers of
hope that come from the mostincremental of, Notes of
progress, like an email, orsomeone saying something
affirmative to you who's in anauthoritative position, it just
makes so much difference.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (01:53):
It really does and, and a lot of my
experience as an ex pat is stepbackward, step backward, step
backward.
And right when you're like, do Ihave it in me to keep going?
The universe throws you a boneand you're like, oh, okay, yeah,
all right, I guess I'll keepgoing.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (02:12):
Yeah, that's totally where I feel like
I'm at right now, minus thebone.
Like the bone hasn't shown upyet.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (02:18):
it's right around the corner.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (02:20):
We'll see.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (02:22):
Well, one of my, um, successes is
related to shopping, which isalso related to the sales that
we've mentioned before on thisshow, that in Europe,
theoretically, there are onlysales twice a year.
Now that my, I don't know, nowthat the noise level in my head
is reducing a little bit, I justwent into Galleries Lafayette,
(02:43):
which is a pretty normaldepartment store.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (02:45):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (02:46):
And I, It's like I could see, I'm
like, Oh, I can see the pricesof things.
I can see how the sales work.
I can see the rules of what I'mallowed to touch and not touch.
Like it just felt a lot morecomfortable than at any other
point in the last nine months,there was some shift in me.
I mean, obviously the storedidn't change and I, I walked
(03:10):
out with a pair of boots.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (03:12):
Nice.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (03:14):
And, you know, some people enjoy shoe
shopping.
I am not one of those people.
So this is a huge coup.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (03:20):
Okay, tell me about the boots.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (03:22):
They are kitten heeled.
So they're about a two inchlittle heel, which I really like
because that feels feminine, butpractical,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (03:29):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (03:30):
a fairly pointy toe, which I
wanted this boot to feel alittle bit dressed up because I
need to wear it on stage, whichhas been one of the problems
with my new lifestyle is how doI balance.
The not that often occasionswhen I need to be on stage and
have people see my entire outfitversus zoom, which is my normal
life now and my Reality ofneeding to walk to the metro and
(03:56):
stuff in Paris.
That's a really hard balance andbecause we're a moving around so
much and be the closets arepetite here in Paris.
I can't do what I would do inAmerica, which is just have 20
different pairs of shoes, two ofwhich I wear all the time and
the rest are worn twice a year.
I can't do that.
(04:17):
So to have found a pair ofboots, like I said, they're, uh,
kitten heeled, pointy toed,black, and they are just under
the knee.
So they'll go great with pants.
They'll go great with skirts.
I feel like I found my multipurpose boot.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (04:33):
Yay! That's fantastic.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (04:37):
And it's kind of funny.
I was looking at some reallynice French brands, which I will
revisit later.
Jonak, J O N A K is a reallygood one.
Um, Carole is another reallygood one.
And there's another one, I thinkit's called Bocuse.
Um, but I'm wandering aroundlooking at these brands on
(04:58):
purpose.
And I came across of all things,a beautiful pair from Guess.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (05:04):
Oh!
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (05:05):
And that just made me feel so
nostalgic for the 80s, so it waslike this extra random little,
oh, that's fun.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (05:14):
whenever I come across a Benetton here,
United Colors of Benetton, I'mlike oh! Like the, the sixth
grader inside of me is soexcited.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (05:24):
All we need now is a little, like,
what, spree?
A
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (05:26):
Mm, right.
Pretty cool.
Oh my god.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (05:29):
that's taking me down a whole memory
pain.
I've got, uh, memory, memory,memory what?
Memory lane, not pain.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (05:37):
pain.
I mean, that's legit.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (05:40):
But I'm thinking of jellies and
swatch watches now.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (05:45):
Oh my god.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (05:46):
But anyway, back to the point.
I have boots.
I'm very happy.
Damien has a tentative surgeryappointment that has to be
confirmed, and it's when wewanted, which would be after
this quarter, so we can finishout this quarter and then adjust
the school schedule.
The bank account has taken sixdifferent steps and Four
(06:10):
different appointments,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (06:12):
That sounds about right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (06:14):
I have an IBAN and so does Damien,
so we have our own accounts.
We have transferred the firstdeposit, the test deposit,
because again, as we've talkedabout in other episodes, it's so
weird to just send money places.
So we did the test and I justhave to redo one piece of paper
because it wouldn't be France ifI didn't have at least one more
(06:35):
piece of paper between me andthe, the finish line.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (06:39):
Awesome.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (06:40):
Oh, so you can hear like I'm
obviously kind of bubbling overand I'm finally not sick.
That was two weeks of just areally bad cold.
I think it might have been theactual flu.
So I'm actually feelingoptimistic and light and hopeful
again.
Things are good.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (07:00):
Yay.
I think that's one of the thingsthat I actually really enjoy
about being sick.
For me particularly if I have afever, when the fever breaks
there's this surge of energy andinvigoration and I feel alive in
a way that feels moreheightened.
(07:20):
Um, and I really, I reallyappreciate.
Um,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (07:27):
I actually a hundred percent
relate to what you're talkingabout.
There's this, it's like thebirds sing louder and the
unicorns came back to life andyeah, and it doesn't last as
long as I wish, but it is abright, sunny, beautiful
feeling.
Yeah.
(07:47):
So you mentioned that you'rekind of feeling a mixed bag.
What's, what's in the bag?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (07:55):
I'm in the middle of the process of
potentially failing out ofSpanish.
We have, exams all this week.
They started late last week.
and, you know, like last year,it's a total freaking coin toss.
I have no idea.
I keep doing the homework andthink okay, I think I finally
(08:16):
got this and then we correct itin class and you're like, oh
hell no, no, that's, it's notthat tense, it's a completely
different tense that you didn'tcatch and so the entire paper is
wrong, you know, just like, god,freaking nonsense, and I'm so
over it.
Last week, I was studying and Iwas like, you know what, maybe I
should just stop studying andjust let myself fail out because
(08:38):
I can't, this methodology oftheory focused language learning
is destroying my will,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (08:51):
I mean, it's not the first time
you've felt this way.
There was a brief, like lastquarter, you felt a lot more
capable, but every otherquarter, did you have a
different teacher last quarteror do you, can you identify
anything that was different?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (09:04):
Well, last quarter, it was reviewing
the previous year beforestarting into the new stuff.
Right.
So,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (09:11):
that might mean that this is just
the, the normal process.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (09:15):
well, I mean, my drama is a normal
process for me, but
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (09:22):
and your language drama, me and my
underwear drama.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (09:25):
exactly, exactly, but I do have a backup
plan.
There is a language school,called Up Idiomas, and on their
website, they say they're Basedon experiential learning and
there's oral presentations andconversations and smaller class
size.
And I'm like, you know, andthis, you know, after I found
(09:48):
that, I was like, Oh, let mejust fail out of this and switch
over to there.
And then I, you know, sat downand was like, now.
Aimee, if you just throw in thetowel and give up like this, you
won't ever actually know ifyou're telling yourself a story
that you failed, or if youactually failed, so at least
give it an honest try, don't bea douchebag, give it a shot, and
(10:13):
give it a shot.
You know, if you pass, great.
If you don't, you've got abackup that will probably be
better for you.
Um, so I'm kind of holding, bothof those possibilities in my
mind.
And even considering if I dopass, leaving the school anyway,
(10:34):
because it is such a frickingrind.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (10:37):
Well, that's exactly what I was going
to ask you.
Like, allow yourself to fail orpass and don't put a lot of, you
know, weight on the outcome andjust plan to shift schools.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (10:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But the thing is,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (10:52):
to this school, right?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (10:53):
well, in a year, I couldn't just pick
up.
But yeah, I would have to wait.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (10:59):
really structured program
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (11:00):
It is a very structured program.
Yeah.
And then I had the thought,well, I could keep going to the
school I'm going now and onlyattend class half the days and
the other half days do the classof idiomas and just make it a
hybrid.
And if I learn better from thesecond school, then it would
translate over to the firstschool.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (11:22):
As a way to keep your place in this
school if the experiment didn'twork.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (11:27):
Yeah, and get the official, nationally
recognized certificate ofcompetency, which would be
necessary for me to get a job.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (11:36):
So that's the other thing about
this program, is it's certifiedwith the government or
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (11:41):
Exactly.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (11:42):
Aha.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (11:43):
Yeah.
Which, honestly, I don't thinkthere's a situation where I'll
need that, but it's still niceto have it rather than have to
test for it later, you know,kind of get something out of
this nonsense.
So, there's that, there's, Ijust am in a really kind of meh
(12:06):
sort of mood that has it.
Yeah.
Been pretty pervasive for thelast month, and I found out over
the weekend that I need to goback to the States to deal with
mailbox shenanigans and papersthat need to be signed in
person.
So, I'm not ready to changeresidency yet.
(12:29):
So I was like, well, I guess I'mgoing back to the States, but
you know, I've been cravingdried mango with chili from
Trader Joe's.
So it's actually a good time.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (12:41):
You know, it's all about the silver
lining, right?
We are definitely out of Dayquilnow, so my upcoming trip in
February to conference is welltimed.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (12:49):
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
And, uh, you know, I've donethe, I've done the five weeks
abroad.
I've done the two weeks abroadand now I'm going to try six
days abroad and see how thatquick, you know, if I come back
to Europe before jet lag isover, what's that like?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (13:10):
That might work a lot better for you.
It's also funny to hear you saythe word abroad and mean the
other direction across
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (13:17):
Oh yeah, that's funny.
That's funny that I chose thatbecause I don't actually feel, I
feel very not integrated here atthe moment.
I feel
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (13:29):
yet it came out that way.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (13:30):
yeah, I don't feel like, I don't feel
like, uh, I belong anywhere, youknow, I don't feel like I'm a
part of Spain, I don't feel likeI'm a part of Catalunya the US
feels like, and this is a, itfeels like the devil I know,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (13:54):
Like in a comfortable way?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (13:56):
um, No, I mean, more like, I know
how to deal with that demon.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (14:04):
Okay, like, in a
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0404 (14:05):
I know, I know what to expect from
that demon, you know, both, bothpolitically and socially.
It's yeah, but it's also.
You know, very deep in my bellygives me a sense of revulsion to
have to choose that if I were tochoose that, because walking
(14:26):
home from Spanish class waslike, yeah, if you went back to
the United States, you'd spendyour entire life in a car again,
because there just isn't outsideof Manhattan, you don't have
this lifestyle in the States.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (14:38):
Yeah, now, you are in a really
walkable neighborhood.
You're not using publictransportation.
It's just that it's reallywalkable, right?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (14:44):
Yeah, very rarely do I use public
transportation.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (14:47):
Yeah, I was thinking about that
because I was identifying withwhat you're saying, but for me,
it's about the Metro and thatpublic transportation and I'm.
Curious if we end up moving to asmaller town in France for his
internship.
No idea what that will actuallymean for us when it comes to the
delight that I feel in havingpublic transportation.
(15:08):
Well, would we live in a smallenough town that it's just as
walkable?
I imagine that it would bebecause that is such a European
thing.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (15:15):
yeah.
And I mean, if it was a smallenough town, you'd likely be
able to afford living in aneighborhood where you wouldn't
need a car rather thanresidential neighborhoods
outside the center of, you know,wherever.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (15:28):
Yeah.
So many things that are unknownand
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0404 (15:32):
I know.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (15:32):
it's, it's uncomfortable.
It's exciting, but it's veryuncomfortable.
And I identify with that wholedevil, you know, just phrase
when we're, there is a comfortand familiarity in something,
even when it's bad for you.
And even when you want somethingelse, the not knowing how that
(15:53):
something else is going to turnout.
It's uncomfortable.
And.
You never are quite sure ifyou're going to scurry back to
the safety of something youdon't actually like or if you're
going to stay brave enough tostay at something that you want
to work out.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (16:09):
My personality is one that I never
scurry back to something that Idon't like.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (16:14):
That's good.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (16:15):
and maybe, maybe that's what's going
on is that.
Yeah.
The uncertainty, there are manythings, many aspects of
uncertainty that have notabated, and I'm just tired of
it.
I'm tired of rolling over thesame questions over and over
again, like if we were topurchase a property here, and
now I'm rethinking that entirelybecause.
(16:37):
Again, if we were, if we're notplanning on retiring her, buying
a property doesn't actually makemuch sense because if we didn't
stay in Spain, capital gains taxon selling the property and
taking that money outside of thecountry would be so high.
That we might even lose money ifit wasn't, you know, a property
(17:00):
you had for 15 years or whatever
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (17:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (17:03):
and really until we decide to pursue
and ascertain permanentresidency in this country
doesn't make sense to buyproperty because there's no
investment incentive to do it.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (17:19):
That the struggle to make choices in
this lifestyle is a reallyinteresting one because, you
know, unlike people.
In a war zone who are livingwith uncertainty, but they
didn't choose it for themselves.
Obviously
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (17:35):
right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (17:36):
we upset the apple cart of our
lives on purpose.
And we're supposed to be beingintentional and making choices.
And yet we have chosen a life ofuncertainty and somehow expect
ourselves to still make choiceswithin this new world.
Sometimes I question myself.
(17:56):
I'm like, other people wouldgive anything to have a more
stable Comfortable life.
And I walked away from one.
Sometimes I feel a little insanefor that, but then I remember
how the healthcare is in theUnited States.
And then I'm like, Oh yeah,nope, I wasn't insane.
I was actually just really smartand brave.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (18:16):
And some, honestly, some
personalities don't do well withroutine stability.
It gets boring.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (18:22):
My husband is like that.
I mean, that's a big driverbehind, especially us moving so
often and what he's hopinghappens over the next five
years.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (18:30):
hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (18:31):
For me, it's, I mean, I, Oh, I crave
routine.
I love routine.
One of my favorite phases of mylife was when I was in ROTC in
college
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0404 (18:41):
I cannot believe you are in ROTC.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (18:44):
Oh yeah, it suited me.
I'm a little rule follower.
And The best part was theuniform.
I didn't have to think aboutwhat to wear.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (18:51):
Oh my god.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (18:53):
So.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (18:54):
no, I can see you now that I think
about it.
I can absolutely see you in aROTC uniform in formation.
Oh my god.
That is crazy.
Stuff.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (19:05):
Yeah, and it was an Air Force ROTC and
I would have made an excellentofficer.
It would have been a natural fitfor my personality.
I don't think it would havenecessarily been a healthy fit
because it would have reinforceda lot of, um,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (19:20):
Things you're trying to unlearn in your
40s.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (19:22):
stick up the butt tendencies that I
have.
But, yeah, I loved the routine.
The reason I'm doing this, asidefrom supporting Damien, which is
part of it, but it can't be allof it.
You can't, you know, put allyour choices on somebody else's
shoulders.
I really did choose this formyself because I want to stretch
(19:47):
myself.
I don't want to stay in acomfortable zone and then look
back and be like, what did Iallow myself to miss out on?
Because I just was comfortable,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (19:57):
Right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (19:58):
even though I really want routine.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (20:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know what I want rightnow.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (20:09):
That makes it hard.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (20:11):
It does.
It does.
Cause yeah, there's no, I feltthis way, but worse, much worse
about a year and a half or soafter my son was born a year,
year and a half.
And I didn't really know what,like, what I wanted to do with
my career.
Um.
(20:32):
what I really wanted to do withmy life in a very big
existential sense.
And I kind of feel on the cuspof that again, but I do enjoy
the work that I do.
I feel good about the work thatI'm doing.
So thankfully, You know, I feellike work isn't a really good
place for me right now.
(20:53):
Um, so I don't have that eatingaway at my identity.
Um, but most other things, I amjust kind of like floating in
space and not really like,there's no wind, there's no
(21:13):
gravity.
I'm just kind of like spinningwhatever that God awful movie
was that was created about thewoman who like got lost and not
lost
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (21:23):
Sandra Bullock's
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (21:24):
Yeah.
yeah.
I just, I heard the premise andI was like, that sounds like my
worst nightmare.
No, thank you.
I'm not even going to look atthe preview.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (21:32):
When I, when I work with clients, I
describe this, um, as thedoldrums, which is when you're
in a sailboat and there's nowind and you, you're in a
sailboat, so you can't cross theocean with motor.
There is no motor to cross.
And you know, that, that timebetween the islands, the islands
being where you're certain aboutwhat you're doing.
(21:54):
I think the only thing we can dois settle into it, into the
journey.
This part is about the journey.
You're not at a destinationright now and it is, it is
uncomfortable.
I don't know anybody whoactually enjoys the in between
phases.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (22:10):
Yeah, I think of it as treading water.
You know, there's, there'ssometimes when you're going in a
direction and sometimes whereyou're just treading water.
Either because you're too tiredto swim in the direction that
you want to go, or you're notreally clear about next steps to
take.
Yeah.
Um, but I just, I'm just, I'mtired.
(22:32):
I'm tired of it.
I'm tired of it.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (22:35):
Well, and you've been in a position
where you had made this hugedecision to move your whole
family to Spain, and then you'vebeen pulled back to the States a
lot more than I think youexpected.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (22:48):
totally.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (22:49):
yeah, it's like you're trying to keep
moving in one direction, butyou're being sucked backwards by
a black hole.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (22:57):
There is that.
That's a good point.
I mean,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (22:59):
that is exhausting.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (23:01):
Yeah, yeah, and I will say that aspect
of all of this has definitelymade it much harder to feel like
I could settle here.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (23:11):
That absolutely makes sense.
And I don't think anybody wouldblame you for feeling the way
you're feeling right now.
Are you finding, we haven'treally talked about your social
life there in a really longtime.
Are you finding that you'remaking local friends, in person
friends, people that you canconnect with there?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0404 (23:30):
I do, yeah, I do have local
friends and, One of the thingsthat happens when I get like
this is I, I retreat, I pullback, and I get quiet.
So I definitely haven't been associal.
I haven't had, A lot of energyor interest in, in leaving the
(23:51):
house.
It's very similar to like theearly stages of moving here
where you feel like you can'tdeal with the outside world.
I don't feel like that rightnow, but you know, my behavior
appears very similar, eventhough it's for a different
reason.
I just am not, it's freakingcold.
I don't want to be outside inthe cold.
(24:16):
I'm done with that, like, giveme some moderate temperature,
please.
You know, I say that, andoftentimes it's warmer outside
than it is in this apartmentbecause Spanish pisos are made
of tile and stone, and they'refrickin refrigerators in the
winter.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (24:35):
Yeah, and if they're anything like
these places in Paris, they justleak any heat that you try to
put into
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (24:42):
Yes.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (24:42):
at the same time.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (24:43):
Right.
Yeah, Yeah.
So,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (24:45):
is it in Girona right now?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (24:47):
um, it's still, it's below freezing
in the morning and has.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (24:51):
in Paris.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (24:51):
Yeah, has been for over a week now.
And it's really funny becauseright before this cold snap
came, it was, like 40 to 65degrees Fahrenheit.
We, it was like, Oh my God,spring's coming early.
It's January.
It's so warm out.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (25:08):
Just
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (25:09):
it was like, Just This was a
little, I was like, this is alittle weird.
I don't know how I feel aboutthis.
Cause it's pretty early.
And then, then I was like, Ohyeah, well here,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13 (25:19):
Careful what you ask
la-chingona_1_01-21-202 (25:21):
careful what you ask for.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm like, Oh, forget it.
No, I'm ready for the spring.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (25:28):
Well, that's a really good State of
the Union.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (25:32):
Tell me about Damien's surgery
scheduling.
Like, it sounds like the wholeprocess of medical care in
France, once you're establishedin the system, is really
efficient and easy.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_ (25:46):
Obviously this is going off of one
experience, you know, so we, wedon't want to generalize yet.
But this experience has beenremarkably easy and it does
parallel every story we havebeen told by people.
Just yesterday I was talking tosomebody about Damien's
experience and she's like, ohyeah, My, when my sister was
(26:07):
here and she came, I think shebroke her arm.
She went to the emergency room.
They said, they patched her up.
They said, we'll send you aninvoice, which terrified her
being an American.
Sent the invoice.
It was all of 200 euro.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (26:20):
Wow.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (26:21):
Yeah.
It's just over and over again.
This seems to be proved to betrue.
So I know the stumbling blocksare.
Obviously the applicationprocess and having an address to
get that done with and then theFrench because the CPAM office
they expect you to speak Frenchwhen Damien went to the So he
(26:45):
went to an MRI appointment andthen two days later he went to
the doctor's appointment toconfirm that he would in fact
need surgery and then plan thesurgery
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (26:54):
Was his his suspicion spot on?
Is it?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (26:57):
100%.
Yes, he self diagnosedperfectly.
Um, so in his right arm when hehad done it, he ripped three
tendons.
I think there only are three orsomething like that.
And this time he only rippedtwo.
So he has less of an injury, butit is exactly the same injury.
he found the receptionist personat the clinic to be very rude
(27:20):
and abrupt.
But that could be true in anylanguage, in any country, and in
any scenario.
So I don't think that it's areflection on the healthcare
system.
Everything else has been easyand straightforward.
I, as I understand it, thenumbers are as follows.
In the United States, when hehad his right arm done, I
(27:41):
believe the total bill was about60, 000.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (27:44):
What year was that?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (27:47):
Maybe four years ago, it's relatively
recent, and he had to pay out ofpocket a 6, 000 deductible.
The numbers this time seem to bethat if he had to pay for the
whole surgery, it would be 8,000 euro, which is barely more
than his deductible was, andhe's probably going to end up
(28:08):
paying A couple hundred becausewe don't have a mutual.
So the way it works in France iseverybody has access to the
social health care system, whichcovers most of the costs.
But most French people choose tohave a mutual, which tops off
any additional fees.
(28:29):
Like, if you choose to have adoctor who you go to directly
without a referral and stufflike
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (28:34):
right, right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (28:35):
So there's a couple different
levels.
So obviously he does not have amutual right now, so that will
be the part that he has to pay,which again is a laughably small
amount compared to thedeductible in the United States.
It's more like a co paybasically.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (28:48):
Yeah, that's amazing.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (28:51):
It still feels surreal.
It still feels like a typo thatthey're going to call you and
say, Oh, we're sorry.
We forgot to put two zeros onthis invoice.
That's how it feels.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (29:02):
This is very literally the alternate
universe.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (29:06):
Yeah.
It is.
It's weird.
Like you pinch yourself,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (29:14):
Right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (29:15):
but we remember that you do give up,
you know, it's trade, it's tradeoffs.
You are paying.
Well, Damien and I talk aboutthis all the time.
On the face of it, you're payingmore taxes for that service, but
you're really not.
Because, you know, in theStates, just two tiny examples,
(29:35):
let's say I'm in the 35 percenttax bracket.
That's 35 percent right there.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (29:39):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (29:40):
And then every time I buy anything,
I'm paying 10 percent more
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (29:45):
For sales tax.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (29:45):
that I was already taxed on.
So, you know, it's not exactmath, but that's 45%, you know.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (29:53):
Right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (29:53):
It's just not as different as the
media would have you believewhen they're talking about
socialized healthcare, and allthe, you know, The way they, I'm
just not going to go into it,but they paint it to be
something that's going to leaveyou poorer.
And it is the opposite.
This system leaves youwealthier, maybe not in your
(30:14):
bank account, but in terms ofyour life and your stress levels
and your actual physical health,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (30:22):
Yes.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (30:23):
you're wealthier.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (30:24):
The things that matter in The
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (30:26):
things that actually matter, because
who cares how big your pile ofmoney is if you're not healthy.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (30:31):
Yeah.
That said there's you know withWorldwide now it seems there's
this issue with rising cost ofhousing and Natives in any
country not being able to affordhousing,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_ (30:47):
Including our own.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (30:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which, yeah, exactly.
That's what I was going to say.
It's not unique to the UnitedStates.
It's a huge, huge problem herein Spain as well.
There is something to be said interms of economic mobility and
the ability for someone whowants to get ahead to be able to
(31:09):
do so being an important pieceof quality of life that I think
is not as well appreciated or.
Available here in Europe,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (31:21):
Yeah, but I think we have to be
careful about defining gettingahead.
yes, that could mean socialmobility.
It could be physical mobility interms of where you want to live.
It could be physical mobility.
Mm hmm.
wealth status changing, allthese things, but getting ahead
(31:42):
could also be living a long lifeand being healthy.
Like, what are
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (31:46):
No, that's just a basic human right.
That's not getting ahead.
That should be the baseline.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (31:52):
Well, I guess what I'm saying is, in
order to get ahead in the UnitedStates way of doing it, we have
had to give up what you'recalling the baseline.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (32:03):
I'm not saying that's acceptable at
all.
I just think about how, the moreI learn about Spain and how the
taxes, particularly in thisregion, are run and how It is
such a disincentive to dosomething like start a business,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (32:27):
Yeah.
No, that's absolutely true.
And, you know, I was just, Italked, I had the most
wonderful, let me back that up.
I got to tell you somethingreally cool that happened.
So this is just a marketing win.
I wrote an article on mediumabout the fact that I wasn't a
sustainable designer.
I posted on LinkedIn, this, um,gentleman who teaches at a very
(32:49):
elite business school here inParis.
Did a LinkedIn request and I waslike, who is this?
I would like to know thisperson.
It connected with them.
He and I ended up having an hourand a half long conversation
yesterday at the businessschool.
And it was absolutely so muchfun.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (33:07):
in French, in English.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (33:08):
It was in English.
They mostly teach in Englishcause it's a very international
school.
A lot of, uh, internationalstudents, but we were talking
about the wars, right?
We got World War I, World WarII, completely decimates Europe
and is a complete boost to theUnited States.
We were the manufacturers.
We were supplying practicallyeverything.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (33:30):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (33:31):
And so.
Europe is right now well, Imean, first they had to create
stability again.
They had to create economicengines again.
So the fact that they're atwhere they're at right now in
terms of entrepreneurship and.
Self development, which is a lotmore of an individualistic
(33:52):
thing, makes sense to me,because I feel like they all had
to come together and hold eachother's hand and be like, let's
recover from this massive warthat happened to us.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (34:05):
That's a good point.
And I know Spain, as well aslike coming out of, you know, is
still relatively fresh, just 50years since Franco died, and
coming out of fascism where thestate takes care of everything.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (34:20):
Yep.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (34:21):
yeah, yeah,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (34:24):
Cause I mean your, your point that
they, they do not support orpromote or give wings to
entrepreneurship is absolutelytrue.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (34:33):
it's worse than that.
If they just didn't get in theway, that would be one thing.
But it's like they're activelypenalizing people who are
creative and want to do theirown thing.
Like here in Spain when you setup as an independent or start a
business, you have to pay thegovernment even if you don't
make money.
(34:54):
For the privilege, for the, Idon't know, because you exist,
you have to, and so you can getinto debt super easy.
And here, in town.
We haven't been here even twoyears yet, and I have, we have
seen so many businesses come andgo.
(35:15):
There's this one spot on a mainstreet, very well populated
street, there have been tworestaurants In the time that
we've been here that have openedand closed and the space right
next to the restaurant was ababy clothing store and there
they didn't, they're gone and itwas right around December,
(35:36):
everybody like lots of lots ofbusinesses shut down.
And I think it's because theyhave to pay they have to pay
their taxes in January.
So everybody closed their doorsat the end of December.
And there's all this emptyspace.
It's like, oh, this is whodidn't make it this year.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (35:51):
That's really interesting.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (35:53):
there's, it's like, I, and I see this
happening, I'm like, I don'twant to, maybe that's why I
don't know what the hell to dowith my life, because I'm not
incentivized to participate inthe Spanish economy as an
independent person, and I'm noteligible to work for Spain.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (36:21):
Yeah, that, that all makes sense and
mostly aligns with what I'veseen in Paris.
The one difference, which won'thelp us at all, um, but the one
difference I've learned about isthat there's a, a little bit
like our unemployment in theUnited States.
They apparently can access aversion of social support after
(36:44):
leaving a corporate job.
If your boss agrees.
Which be basically because theyhad to let you go or you're
getting fired for some reason,but apparently people game this
a little bit with theiremployers.
but they can get up to 18 monthsof support and make about half
of what they were making.
And so like there's a gal that Ijust went to the home show here
(37:06):
with Maison Objet.
She has been working as anarchitect for like 15 years.
She's finally ready to go out onher own.
And so she has this.
unemployment benefit, and that'sthe money she's using to get
herself set up in her newbusiness.
So that's a common leap forward,apparently, that people do here.
(37:29):
Yeah, same thing here.
It's also why it can be so hardto get a job.
Um, another person I was talkingto recently said that they've
been working contract positionsfor forever.
Because getting a tenuredposition with a company is tough
because it's so hard to firepeople that the employers get
(37:52):
really gun shy about making thatcommitment, you know?
So they're trying to protect theemployees by making it harder to
get fired.
But that actually in turn makesit harder for them to get a job
in the first place.
Yeah.
And I think that's also part ofwhy there's a lot less change
because you get your job.
(38:13):
And you're like, I've got myjob.
I'm keeping my job.
Same thing with apartments.
It can be really hard to get anapartment, especially as a
foreigner, but even not, but youcan't be kicked out in the
winter.
You are protected in the wintermonths.
They cannot kick you out, evenif you stop paying rent, which
is why landlords are a littlebit anxious about renting to
(38:37):
people who might take advantageof that.
Hey friends, Rebecca here,jumping into this conversation,
because right at this pointAmy's microphone completely
dropped out, and we have no ideawhy.
We also have no idea where thatdeep thought was leading, but
after this, Amy asked me ifthere was anything exciting on
the agenda, and this is what Isaid about the coming week.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (38:59):
Um, so there's two things that are
happening this week.
The first one is that I am goingto go to a hammam.
With a new friend.
hammam is a Spa, but let me lookup and see what it officially
means so officially a hamam,often called a Turkish bath by
(39:21):
Westerners, is a steam bath or aplace of public bathing
associated with the Islamicworld.
So that's the officialdefinition, and we discovered
Cordoba, Spain, which was aleftover from when the Moors
were in charge of Spain and thatone in Cordoba, oh my gosh, it's
(39:43):
so beautiful.
I have no idea what to expect inthis one, but it is part of a
The Grand Mosque here in Parisit's for women only and that's
pretty much all I know.
Apparently, it's going to bebottoms on, top off, is my
impression.
I'm trying to, you know, scopeout the rules before I go.
(40:03):
So that's Thursday, and then onSaturday, we're going to go to a
speakeasy that we have visitedonce before called the
Moonshiner.
So we'll be getting all dolledup in our 1920s outfits and
having fancy cocktails.
And this is the one that youenter by going through a pizza
shop through the freezer doorinto the hidden speakeasy.
(40:24):
And Rebecca back.
So after that Amy told us allabout the fact that she's kind
of in the doldrums with herSpanish.
She's not quite sure if she'sactually going to pass her
Spanish class or if she's goingto stick with this program.
You know, the usual up and downthat we keep having with our
language skills by choosingthese adventures.
We also talk about some of thelogistical challenges that come
(40:46):
along with things like trying toget a driver's license, and Amy
promises to tell us more aboutthat in a future episode.
I think that about sums up themost important parts, and
hopefully we won't lose ourmicrophones next time.
Thank you for remembering thatwe're just two humans trying to
record a podcast.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Bonjola.
(41:06):
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time!
Welcome to Bonjola, a podcastabout two women, Aimee and
Rebecca, who each moved from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats, Aimee to Spainand Rebecca to France.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure, encourage you tofollow your own move abroad
dreams, and remind you thatyou're not alone when the going
gets tough.
Enjoy.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (00:23):
Bonjola, Rebecca,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1 (00:24):
Bonjola, Aimee.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (00:26):
how are you doing?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (00:27):
You know, um, as I was mentioning to
you off air, I feel like my freefall has turned into a trust
fall.
So I'm feeling on the up and up.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (00:37):
So it Sounds like the HR department
entered your brain and did alittle, uh, community exercise
in there to get all, you know,the trust fall, the trust fall.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (00:46):
Yeah, I mean, it is a trust fall, like
into my own waiting arms.
It is very meta.
Yeah,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (00:52):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (00:53):
Um, but it's a definite improved
feeling compared to I'm justjumping up a high dive and
hoping water's at the bottom.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (01:01):
For sure.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (01:03):
I think that, um, it's coming from
a lot of directions.
I've had some shoppingsuccesses.
We've had some healthcaresuccesses.
We've had bank accountsuccesses.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (01:14):
Holy crap.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (01:15):
95 percent of the way to being able
to say I hold a French bankaccount.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (01:20):
Oh my gosh.
Massive victory.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (01:22):
Yeah.
So like nothing, nothing'sactually done.
Everything's at about 95%, butthat is huge progress.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (01:31):
Yeah.
Well, when you're in stasis forso long, those tiny slivers of
hope that come from the mostincremental of, Notes of
progress, like an email, orsomeone saying something
affirmative to you who's in anauthoritative position, it just
makes so much difference.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (01:53):
It really does and, and a lot of my
experience as an ex pat is stepbackward, step backward, step
backward.
And right when you're like, do Ihave it in me to keep going?
The universe throws you a boneand you're like, oh, okay, yeah,
all right, I guess I'll keepgoing.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (02:12):
Yeah, that's totally where I feel like
I'm at right now, minus thebone.
Like the bone hasn't shown upyet.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (02:18):
it's right around the corner.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (02:20):
We'll see.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (02:22):
Well, one of my, um, successes is
related to shopping, which isalso related to the sales that
we've mentioned before on thisshow, that in Europe,
theoretically, there are onlysales twice a year.
Now that my, I don't know, nowthat the noise level in my head
is reducing a little bit, I justwent into Galleries Lafayette,
(02:43):
which is a pretty normaldepartment store.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (02:45):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (02:46):
And I, It's like I could see, I'm
like, Oh, I can see the pricesof things.
I can see how the sales work.
I can see the rules of what I'mallowed to touch and not touch.
Like it just felt a lot morecomfortable than at any other
point in the last nine months,there was some shift in me.
I mean, obviously the storedidn't change and I, I walked
(03:10):
out with a pair of boots.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (03:12):
Nice.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (03:14):
And, you know, some people enjoy shoe
shopping.
I am not one of those people.
So this is a huge coup.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (03:20):
Okay, tell me about the boots.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (03:22):
They are kitten heeled.
So they're about a two inchlittle heel, which I really like
because that feels feminine, butpractical,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (03:29):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (03:30):
a fairly pointy toe, which I
wanted this boot to feel alittle bit dressed up because I
need to wear it on stage, whichhas been one of the problems
with my new lifestyle is how doI balance.
The not that often occasionswhen I need to be on stage and
have people see my entire outfitversus zoom, which is my normal
life now and my Reality ofneeding to walk to the metro and
(03:56):
stuff in Paris.
That's a really hard balance andbecause we're a moving around so
much and be the closets arepetite here in Paris.
I can't do what I would do inAmerica, which is just have 20
different pairs of shoes, two ofwhich I wear all the time and
the rest are worn twice a year.
I can't do that.
(04:17):
So to have found a pair ofboots, like I said, they're, uh,
kitten heeled, pointy toed,black, and they are just under
the knee.
So they'll go great with pants.
They'll go great with skirts.
I feel like I found my multipurpose boot.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (04:33):
Yay! That's fantastic.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (04:37):
And it's kind of funny.
I was looking at some reallynice French brands, which I will
revisit later.
Jonak, J O N A K is a reallygood one.
Um, Carole is another reallygood one.
And there's another one, I thinkit's called Bocuse.
Um, but I'm wandering aroundlooking at these brands on
(04:58):
purpose.
And I came across of all things,a beautiful pair from Guess.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (05:04):
Oh!
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (05:05):
And that just made me feel so
nostalgic for the 80s, so it waslike this extra random little,
oh, that's fun.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (05:14):
whenever I come across a Benetton here,
United Colors of Benetton, I'mlike oh! Like the, the sixth
grader inside of me is soexcited.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (05:24):
All we need now is a little, like,
what, spree?
A
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (05:26):
Mm, right.
Pretty cool.
Oh my god.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (05:29):
that's taking me down a whole memory
pain.
I've got, uh, memory, memory,memory what?
Memory lane, not pain.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (05:37):
pain.
I mean, that's legit.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (05:40):
But I'm thinking of jellies and
swatch watches now.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (05:45):
Oh my god.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (05:46):
But anyway, back to the point.
I have boots.
I'm very happy.
Damien has a tentative surgeryappointment that has to be
confirmed, and it's when wewanted, which would be after
this quarter, so we can finishout this quarter and then adjust
the school schedule.
The bank account has taken sixdifferent steps and Four
(06:10):
different appointments,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (06:12):
That sounds about right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (06:14):
I have an IBAN and so does Damien,
so we have our own accounts.
We have transferred the firstdeposit, the test deposit,
because again, as we've talkedabout in other episodes, it's so
weird to just send money places.
So we did the test and I justhave to redo one piece of paper
because it wouldn't be France ifI didn't have at least one more
(06:35):
piece of paper between me andthe, the finish line.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (06:39):
Awesome.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (06:40):
Oh, so you can hear like I'm
obviously kind of bubbling overand I'm finally not sick.
That was two weeks of just areally bad cold.
I think it might have been theactual flu.
So I'm actually feelingoptimistic and light and hopeful
again.
Things are good.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (07:00):
Yay.
I think that's one of the thingsthat I actually really enjoy
about being sick.
For me particularly if I have afever, when the fever breaks
there's this surge of energy andinvigoration and I feel alive in
a way that feels moreheightened.
(07:20):
Um, and I really, I reallyappreciate.
Um,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (07:27):
I actually a hundred percent
relate to what you're talkingabout.
There's this, it's like thebirds sing louder and the
unicorns came back to life andyeah, and it doesn't last as
long as I wish, but it is abright, sunny, beautiful
feeling.
Yeah.
(07:47):
So you mentioned that you'rekind of feeling a mixed bag.
What's, what's in the bag?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (07:55):
I'm in the middle of the process of
potentially failing out ofSpanish.
We have, exams all this week.
They started late last week.
and, you know, like last year,it's a total freaking coin toss.
I have no idea.
I keep doing the homework andthink okay, I think I finally
(08:16):
got this and then we correct itin class and you're like, oh
hell no, no, that's, it's notthat tense, it's a completely
different tense that you didn'tcatch and so the entire paper is
wrong, you know, just like, god,freaking nonsense, and I'm so
over it.
Last week, I was studying and Iwas like, you know what, maybe I
should just stop studying andjust let myself fail out because
(08:38):
I can't, this methodology oftheory focused language learning
is destroying my will,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (08:51):
I mean, it's not the first time
you've felt this way.
There was a brief, like lastquarter, you felt a lot more
capable, but every otherquarter, did you have a
different teacher last quarteror do you, can you identify
anything that was different?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (09:04):
Well, last quarter, it was reviewing
the previous year beforestarting into the new stuff.
Right.
So,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (09:11):
that might mean that this is just
the, the normal process.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (09:15):
well, I mean, my drama is a normal
process for me, but
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (09:22):
and your language drama, me and my
underwear drama.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (09:25):
exactly, exactly, but I do have a backup
plan.
There is a language school,called Up Idiomas, and on their
website, they say they're Basedon experiential learning and
there's oral presentations andconversations and smaller class
size.
And I'm like, you know, andthis, you know, after I found
(09:48):
that, I was like, Oh, let mejust fail out of this and switch
over to there.
And then I, you know, sat downand was like, now.
Aimee, if you just throw in thetowel and give up like this, you
won't ever actually know ifyou're telling yourself a story
that you failed, or if youactually failed, so at least
give it an honest try, don't bea douchebag, give it a shot, and
(10:13):
give it a shot.
You know, if you pass, great.
If you don't, you've got abackup that will probably be
better for you.
Um, so I'm kind of holding, bothof those possibilities in my
mind.
And even considering if I dopass, leaving the school anyway,
(10:34):
because it is such a frickingrind.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (10:37):
Well, that's exactly what I was going
to ask you.
Like, allow yourself to fail orpass and don't put a lot of, you
know, weight on the outcome andjust plan to shift schools.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (10:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But the thing is,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (10:52):
to this school, right?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (10:53):
well, in a year, I couldn't just pick
up.
But yeah, I would have to wait.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (10:59):
really structured program
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (11:00):
It is a very structured program.
Yeah.
And then I had the thought,well, I could keep going to the
school I'm going now and onlyattend class half the days and
the other half days do the classof idiomas and just make it a
hybrid.
And if I learn better from thesecond school, then it would
translate over to the firstschool.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (11:22):
As a way to keep your place in this
school if the experiment didn'twork.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (11:27):
Yeah, and get the official, nationally
recognized certificate ofcompetency, which would be
necessary for me to get a job.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (11:36):
So that's the other thing about
this program, is it's certifiedwith the government or
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (11:41):
Exactly.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (11:42):
Aha.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (11:43):
Yeah.
Which, honestly, I don't thinkthere's a situation where I'll
need that, but it's still niceto have it rather than have to
test for it later, you know,kind of get something out of
this nonsense.
So, there's that, there's, Ijust am in a really kind of meh
(12:06):
sort of mood that has it.
Yeah.
Been pretty pervasive for thelast month, and I found out over
the weekend that I need to goback to the States to deal with
mailbox shenanigans and papersthat need to be signed in
person.
So, I'm not ready to changeresidency yet.
(12:29):
So I was like, well, I guess I'mgoing back to the States, but
you know, I've been cravingdried mango with chili from
Trader Joe's.
So it's actually a good time.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (12:41):
You know, it's all about the silver
lining, right?
We are definitely out of Dayquilnow, so my upcoming trip in
February to conference is welltimed.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (12:49):
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
And, uh, you know, I've donethe, I've done the five weeks
abroad.
I've done the two weeks abroadand now I'm going to try six
days abroad and see how thatquick, you know, if I come back
to Europe before jet lag isover, what's that like?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (13:10):
That might work a lot better for you.
It's also funny to hear you saythe word abroad and mean the
other direction across
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (13:17):
Oh yeah, that's funny.
That's funny that I chose thatbecause I don't actually feel, I
feel very not integrated here atthe moment.
I feel
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (13:29):
yet it came out that way.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (13:30):
yeah, I don't feel like, I don't feel
like, uh, I belong anywhere, youknow, I don't feel like I'm a
part of Spain, I don't feel likeI'm a part of Catalunya the US
feels like, and this is a, itfeels like the devil I know,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (13:54):
Like in a comfortable way?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (13:56):
um, No, I mean, more like, I know
how to deal with that demon.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (14:04):
Okay, like, in a
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0404 (14:05):
I know, I know what to expect from
that demon, you know, both, bothpolitically and socially.
It's yeah, but it's also.
You know, very deep in my bellygives me a sense of revulsion to
have to choose that if I were tochoose that, because walking
(14:26):
home from Spanish class waslike, yeah, if you went back to
the United States, you'd spendyour entire life in a car again,
because there just isn't outsideof Manhattan, you don't have
this lifestyle in the States.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (14:38):
Yeah, now, you are in a really
walkable neighborhood.
You're not using publictransportation.
It's just that it's reallywalkable, right?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (14:44):
Yeah, very rarely do I use public
transportation.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (14:47):
Yeah, I was thinking about that
because I was identifying withwhat you're saying, but for me,
it's about the Metro and thatpublic transportation and I'm.
Curious if we end up moving to asmaller town in France for his
internship.
No idea what that will actuallymean for us when it comes to the
delight that I feel in havingpublic transportation.
(15:08):
Well, would we live in a smallenough town that it's just as
walkable?
I imagine that it would bebecause that is such a European
thing.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (15:15):
yeah.
And I mean, if it was a smallenough town, you'd likely be
able to afford living in aneighborhood where you wouldn't
need a car rather thanresidential neighborhoods
outside the center of, you know,wherever.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (15:28):
Yeah.
So many things that are unknownand
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0404 (15:32):
I know.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (15:32):
it's, it's uncomfortable.
It's exciting, but it's veryuncomfortable.
And I identify with that wholedevil, you know, just phrase
when we're, there is a comfortand familiarity in something,
even when it's bad for you.
And even when you want somethingelse, the not knowing how that
(15:53):
something else is going to turnout.
It's uncomfortable.
And.
You never are quite sure ifyou're going to scurry back to
the safety of something youdon't actually like or if you're
going to stay brave enough tostay at something that you want
to work out.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (16:09):
My personality is one that I never
scurry back to something that Idon't like.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (16:14):
That's good.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (16:15):
and maybe, maybe that's what's going
on is that.
Yeah.
The uncertainty, there are manythings, many aspects of
uncertainty that have notabated, and I'm just tired of
it.
I'm tired of rolling over thesame questions over and over
again, like if we were topurchase a property here, and
now I'm rethinking that entirelybecause.
(16:37):
Again, if we were, if we're notplanning on retiring her, buying
a property doesn't actually makemuch sense because if we didn't
stay in Spain, capital gains taxon selling the property and
taking that money outside of thecountry would be so high.
That we might even lose money ifit wasn't, you know, a property
(17:00):
you had for 15 years or whatever
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (17:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (17:03):
and really until we decide to pursue
and ascertain permanentresidency in this country
doesn't make sense to buyproperty because there's no
investment incentive to do it.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (17:19):
That the struggle to make choices in
this lifestyle is a reallyinteresting one because, you
know, unlike people.
In a war zone who are livingwith uncertainty, but they
didn't choose it for themselves.
Obviously
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (17:35):
right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (17:36):
we upset the apple cart of our
lives on purpose.
And we're supposed to be beingintentional and making choices.
And yet we have chosen a life ofuncertainty and somehow expect
ourselves to still make choiceswithin this new world.
Sometimes I question myself.
(17:56):
I'm like, other people wouldgive anything to have a more
stable Comfortable life.
And I walked away from one.
Sometimes I feel a little insanefor that, but then I remember
how the healthcare is in theUnited States.
And then I'm like, Oh yeah,nope, I wasn't insane.
I was actually just really smartand brave.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (18:16):
And some, honestly, some
personalities don't do well withroutine stability.
It gets boring.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (18:22):
My husband is like that.
I mean, that's a big driverbehind, especially us moving so
often and what he's hopinghappens over the next five
years.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (18:30):
hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (18:31):
For me, it's, I mean, I, Oh, I crave
routine.
I love routine.
One of my favorite phases of mylife was when I was in ROTC in
college
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0404 (18:41):
I cannot believe you are in ROTC.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (18:44):
Oh yeah, it suited me.
I'm a little rule follower.
And The best part was theuniform.
I didn't have to think aboutwhat to wear.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (18:51):
Oh my god.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (18:53):
So.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (18:54):
no, I can see you now that I think
about it.
I can absolutely see you in aROTC uniform in formation.
Oh my god.
That is crazy.
Stuff.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (19:05):
Yeah, and it was an Air Force ROTC and
I would have made an excellentofficer.
It would have been a natural fitfor my personality.
I don't think it would havenecessarily been a healthy fit
because it would have reinforceda lot of, um,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (19:20):
Things you're trying to unlearn in your
40s.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (19:22):
stick up the butt tendencies that I
have.
But, yeah, I loved the routine.
The reason I'm doing this, asidefrom supporting Damien, which is
part of it, but it can't be allof it.
You can't, you know, put allyour choices on somebody else's
shoulders.
I really did choose this formyself because I want to stretch
(19:47):
myself.
I don't want to stay in acomfortable zone and then look
back and be like, what did Iallow myself to miss out on?
Because I just was comfortable,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (19:57):
Right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (19:58):
even though I really want routine.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (20:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know what I want rightnow.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (20:09):
That makes it hard.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (20:11):
It does.
It does.
Cause yeah, there's no, I feltthis way, but worse, much worse
about a year and a half or soafter my son was born a year,
year and a half.
And I didn't really know what,like, what I wanted to do with
my career.
Um.
(20:32):
what I really wanted to do withmy life in a very big
existential sense.
And I kind of feel on the cuspof that again, but I do enjoy
the work that I do.
I feel good about the work thatI'm doing.
So thankfully, You know, I feellike work isn't a really good
place for me right now.
(20:53):
Um, so I don't have that eatingaway at my identity.
Um, but most other things, I amjust kind of like floating in
space and not really like,there's no wind, there's no
(21:13):
gravity.
I'm just kind of like spinningwhatever that God awful movie
was that was created about thewoman who like got lost and not
lost
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (21:23):
Sandra Bullock's
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (21:24):
Yeah.
yeah.
I just, I heard the premise andI was like, that sounds like my
worst nightmare.
No, thank you.
I'm not even going to look atthe preview.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (21:32):
When I, when I work with clients, I
describe this, um, as thedoldrums, which is when you're
in a sailboat and there's nowind and you, you're in a
sailboat, so you can't cross theocean with motor.
There is no motor to cross.
And you know, that, that timebetween the islands, the islands
being where you're certain aboutwhat you're doing.
(21:54):
I think the only thing we can dois settle into it, into the
journey.
This part is about the journey.
You're not at a destinationright now and it is, it is
uncomfortable.
I don't know anybody whoactually enjoys the in between
phases.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (22:10):
Yeah, I think of it as treading water.
You know, there's, there'ssometimes when you're going in a
direction and sometimes whereyou're just treading water.
Either because you're too tiredto swim in the direction that
you want to go, or you're notreally clear about next steps to
take.
Yeah.
Um, but I just, I'm just, I'mtired.
(22:32):
I'm tired of it.
I'm tired of it.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (22:35):
Well, and you've been in a position
where you had made this hugedecision to move your whole
family to Spain, and then you'vebeen pulled back to the States a
lot more than I think youexpected.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (22:48):
totally.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (22:49):
yeah, it's like you're trying to keep
moving in one direction, butyou're being sucked backwards by
a black hole.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (22:57):
There is that.
That's a good point.
I mean,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (22:59):
that is exhausting.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (23:01):
Yeah, yeah, and I will say that aspect
of all of this has definitelymade it much harder to feel like
I could settle here.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (23:11):
That absolutely makes sense.
And I don't think anybody wouldblame you for feeling the way
you're feeling right now.
Are you finding, we haven'treally talked about your social
life there in a really longtime.
Are you finding that you'remaking local friends, in person
friends, people that you canconnect with there?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0404 (23:30):
I do, yeah, I do have local
friends and, One of the thingsthat happens when I get like
this is I, I retreat, I pullback, and I get quiet.
So I definitely haven't been associal.
I haven't had, A lot of energyor interest in, in leaving the
(23:51):
house.
It's very similar to like theearly stages of moving here
where you feel like you can'tdeal with the outside world.
I don't feel like that rightnow, but you know, my behavior
appears very similar, eventhough it's for a different
reason.
I just am not, it's freakingcold.
I don't want to be outside inthe cold.
(24:16):
I'm done with that, like, giveme some moderate temperature,
please.
You know, I say that, andoftentimes it's warmer outside
than it is in this apartmentbecause Spanish pisos are made
of tile and stone, and they'refrickin refrigerators in the
winter.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (24:35):
Yeah, and if they're anything like
these places in Paris, they justleak any heat that you try to
put into
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (24:42):
Yes.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (24:42):
at the same time.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (24:43):
Right.
Yeah, Yeah.
So,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (24:45):
is it in Girona right now?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (24:47):
um, it's still, it's below freezing
in the morning and has.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (24:51):
in Paris.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (24:51):
Yeah, has been for over a week now.
And it's really funny becauseright before this cold snap
came, it was, like 40 to 65degrees Fahrenheit.
We, it was like, Oh my God,spring's coming early.
It's January.
It's so warm out.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (25:08):
Just
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (25:09):
it was like, Just This was a
little, I was like, this is alittle weird.
I don't know how I feel aboutthis.
Cause it's pretty early.
And then, then I was like, Ohyeah, well here,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13 (25:19):
Careful what you ask
la-chingona_1_01-21-202 (25:21):
careful what you ask for.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm like, Oh, forget it.
No, I'm ready for the spring.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (25:28):
Well, that's a really good State of
the Union.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (25:32):
Tell me about Damien's surgery
scheduling.
Like, it sounds like the wholeprocess of medical care in
France, once you're establishedin the system, is really
efficient and easy.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_ (25:46):
Obviously this is going off of one
experience, you know, so we, wedon't want to generalize yet.
But this experience has beenremarkably easy and it does
parallel every story we havebeen told by people.
Just yesterday I was talking tosomebody about Damien's
experience and she's like, ohyeah, My, when my sister was
(26:07):
here and she came, I think shebroke her arm.
She went to the emergency room.
They said, they patched her up.
They said, we'll send you aninvoice, which terrified her
being an American.
Sent the invoice.
It was all of 200 euro.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (26:20):
Wow.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (26:21):
Yeah.
It's just over and over again.
This seems to be proved to betrue.
So I know the stumbling blocksare.
Obviously the applicationprocess and having an address to
get that done with and then theFrench because the CPAM office
they expect you to speak Frenchwhen Damien went to the So he
(26:45):
went to an MRI appointment andthen two days later he went to
the doctor's appointment toconfirm that he would in fact
need surgery and then plan thesurgery
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (26:54):
Was his his suspicion spot on?
Is it?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (26:57):
100%.
Yes, he self diagnosedperfectly.
Um, so in his right arm when hehad done it, he ripped three
tendons.
I think there only are three orsomething like that.
And this time he only rippedtwo.
So he has less of an injury, butit is exactly the same injury.
he found the receptionist personat the clinic to be very rude
(27:20):
and abrupt.
But that could be true in anylanguage, in any country, and in
any scenario.
So I don't think that it's areflection on the healthcare
system.
Everything else has been easyand straightforward.
I, as I understand it, thenumbers are as follows.
In the United States, when hehad his right arm done, I
(27:41):
believe the total bill was about60, 000.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (27:44):
What year was that?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (27:47):
Maybe four years ago, it's relatively
recent, and he had to pay out ofpocket a 6, 000 deductible.
The numbers this time seem to bethat if he had to pay for the
whole surgery, it would be 8,000 euro, which is barely more
than his deductible was, andhe's probably going to end up
(28:08):
paying A couple hundred becausewe don't have a mutual.
So the way it works in France iseverybody has access to the
social health care system, whichcovers most of the costs.
But most French people choose tohave a mutual, which tops off
any additional fees.
(28:29):
Like, if you choose to have adoctor who you go to directly
without a referral and stufflike
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (28:34):
right, right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (28:35):
So there's a couple different
levels.
So obviously he does not have amutual right now, so that will
be the part that he has to pay,which again is a laughably small
amount compared to thedeductible in the United States.
It's more like a co paybasically.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (28:48):
Yeah, that's amazing.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (28:51):
It still feels surreal.
It still feels like a typo thatthey're going to call you and
say, Oh, we're sorry.
We forgot to put two zeros onthis invoice.
That's how it feels.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (29:02):
This is very literally the alternate
universe.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (29:06):
Yeah.
It is.
It's weird.
Like you pinch yourself,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (29:14):
Right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (29:15):
but we remember that you do give up,
you know, it's trade, it's tradeoffs.
You are paying.
Well, Damien and I talk aboutthis all the time.
On the face of it, you're payingmore taxes for that service, but
you're really not.
Because, you know, in theStates, just two tiny examples,
(29:35):
let's say I'm in the 35 percenttax bracket.
That's 35 percent right there.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (29:39):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (29:40):
And then every time I buy anything,
I'm paying 10 percent more
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (29:45):
For sales tax.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (29:45):
that I was already taxed on.
So, you know, it's not exactmath, but that's 45%, you know.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (29:53):
Right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (29:53):
It's just not as different as the
media would have you believewhen they're talking about
socialized healthcare, and allthe, you know, The way they, I'm
just not going to go into it,but they paint it to be
something that's going to leaveyou poorer.
And it is the opposite.
This system leaves youwealthier, maybe not in your
(30:14):
bank account, but in terms ofyour life and your stress levels
and your actual physical health,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (30:22):
Yes.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (30:23):
you're wealthier.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (30:24):
The things that matter in The
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (30:26):
things that actually matter, because
who cares how big your pile ofmoney is if you're not healthy.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (30:31):
Yeah.
That said there's you know withWorldwide now it seems there's
this issue with rising cost ofhousing and Natives in any
country not being able to affordhousing,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_ (30:47):
Including our own.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (30:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which, yeah, exactly.
That's what I was going to say.
It's not unique to the UnitedStates.
It's a huge, huge problem herein Spain as well.
There is something to be said interms of economic mobility and
the ability for someone whowants to get ahead to be able to
(31:09):
do so being an important pieceof quality of life that I think
is not as well appreciated or.
Available here in Europe,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (31:21):
Yeah, but I think we have to be
careful about defining gettingahead.
yes, that could mean socialmobility.
It could be physical mobility interms of where you want to live.
It could be physical mobility.
Mm hmm.
wealth status changing, allthese things, but getting ahead
(31:42):
could also be living a long lifeand being healthy.
Like, what are
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (31:46):
No, that's just a basic human right.
That's not getting ahead.
That should be the baseline.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (31:52):
Well, I guess what I'm saying is, in
order to get ahead in the UnitedStates way of doing it, we have
had to give up what you'recalling the baseline.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_04 (32:03):
I'm not saying that's acceptable at
all.
I just think about how, the moreI learn about Spain and how the
taxes, particularly in thisregion, are run and how It is
such a disincentive to dosomething like start a business,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (32:27):
Yeah.
No, that's absolutely true.
And, you know, I was just, Italked, I had the most
wonderful, let me back that up.
I got to tell you somethingreally cool that happened.
So this is just a marketing win.
I wrote an article on mediumabout the fact that I wasn't a
sustainable designer.
I posted on LinkedIn, this, um,gentleman who teaches at a very
(32:49):
elite business school here inParis.
Did a LinkedIn request and I waslike, who is this?
I would like to know thisperson.
It connected with them.
He and I ended up having an hourand a half long conversation
yesterday at the businessschool.
And it was absolutely so muchfun.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (33:07):
in French, in English.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (33:08):
It was in English.
They mostly teach in Englishcause it's a very international
school.
A lot of, uh, internationalstudents, but we were talking
about the wars, right?
We got World War I, World WarII, completely decimates Europe
and is a complete boost to theUnited States.
We were the manufacturers.
We were supplying practicallyeverything.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040 (33:30):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (33:31):
And so.
Europe is right now well, Imean, first they had to create
stability again.
They had to create economicengines again.
So the fact that they're atwhere they're at right now in
terms of entrepreneurship and.
Self development, which is a lotmore of an individualistic
(33:52):
thing, makes sense to me,because I feel like they all had
to come together and hold eachother's hand and be like, let's
recover from this massive warthat happened to us.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025 (34:05):
That's a good point.
And I know Spain, as well aslike coming out of, you know, is
still relatively fresh, just 50years since Franco died, and
coming out of fascism where thestate takes care of everything.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_13040 (34:20):
Yep.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_ (34:21):
yeah, yeah,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (34:24):
Cause I mean your, your point that
they, they do not support orpromote or give wings to
entrepreneurship is absolutelytrue.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_0 (34:33):
it's worse than that.
If they just didn't get in theway, that would be one thing.
But it's like they're activelypenalizing people who are
creative and want to do theirown thing.
Like here in Spain when you setup as an independent or start a
business, you have to pay thegovernment even if you don't
make money.
(34:54):
For the privilege, for the, Idon't know, because you exist,
you have to, and so you can getinto debt super easy.
And here, in town.
We haven't been here even twoyears yet, and I have, we have
seen so many businesses come andgo.
(35:15):
There's this one spot on a mainstreet, very well populated
street, there have been tworestaurants In the time that
we've been here that have openedand closed and the space right
next to the restaurant was ababy clothing store and there
they didn't, they're gone and itwas right around December,
(35:36):
everybody like lots of lots ofbusinesses shut down.
And I think it's because theyhave to pay they have to pay
their taxes in January.
So everybody closed their doorsat the end of December.
And there's all this emptyspace.
It's like, oh, this is whodidn't make it this year.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130 (35:51):
That's really interesting.
la-chingona_1_01-21-20 (35:53):
there's, it's like, I, and I see this
happening, I'm like, I don'twant to, maybe that's why I
don't know what the hell to dowith my life, because I'm not
incentivized to participate inthe Spanish economy as an
independent person, and I'm noteligible to work for Spain.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_1304 (36:21):
Yeah, that, that all makes sense and
mostly aligns with what I'veseen in Paris.
The one difference, which won'thelp us at all, um, but the one
difference I've learned about isthat there's a, a little bit
like our unemployment in theUnited States.
They apparently can access aversion of social support after
(36:44):
leaving a corporate job.
If your boss agrees.
Which be basically because theyhad to let you go or you're
getting fired for some reason,but apparently people game this
a little bit with theiremployers.
but they can get up to 18 monthsof support and make about half
of what they were making.
And so like there's a gal that Ijust went to the home show here
(37:06):
with Maison Objet.
She has been working as anarchitect for like 15 years.
She's finally ready to go out onher own.
And so she has this.
unemployment benefit, and that'sthe money she's using to get
herself set up in her newbusiness.
So that's a common leap forward,apparently, that people do here.
(37:29):
Yeah, same thing here.
It's also why it can be so hardto get a job.
Um, another person I was talkingto recently said that they've
been working contract positionsfor forever.
Because getting a tenuredposition with a company is tough
because it's so hard to firepeople that the employers get
(37:52):
really gun shy about making thatcommitment, you know?
So they're trying to protect theemployees by making it harder to
get fired.
But that actually in turn makesit harder for them to get a job
in the first place.
Yeah.
And I think that's also part ofwhy there's a lot less change
because you get your job.
(38:13):
And you're like, I've got myjob.
I'm keeping my job.
Same thing with apartments.
It can be really hard to get anapartment, especially as a
foreigner, but even not, but youcan't be kicked out in the
winter.
You are protected in the wintermonths.
They cannot kick you out, evenif you stop paying rent, which
is why landlords are a littlebit anxious about renting to
(38:37):
people who might take advantageof that.
Hey friends, Rebecca here,jumping into this conversation,
because right at this pointAmy's microphone completely
dropped out, and we have no ideawhy.
We also have no idea where thatdeep thought was leading, but
after this, Amy asked me ifthere was anything exciting on
the agenda, and this is what Isaid about the coming week.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405 (38:59):
Um, so there's two things that are
happening this week.
The first one is that I am goingto go to a hammam.
With a new friend.
hammam is a Spa, but let me lookup and see what it officially
means so officially a hamam,often called a Turkish bath by
(39:21):
Westerners, is a steam bath or aplace of public bathing
associated with the Islamicworld.
So that's the officialdefinition, and we discovered
Cordoba, Spain, which was aleftover from when the Moors
were in charge of Spain and thatone in Cordoba, oh my gosh, it's
(39:43):
so beautiful.
I have no idea what to expect inthis one, but it is part of a
The Grand Mosque here in Parisit's for women only and that's
pretty much all I know.
Apparently, it's going to bebottoms on, top off, is my
impression.
I'm trying to, you know, scopeout the rules before I go.
(40:03):
So that's Thursday, and then onSaturday, we're going to go to a
speakeasy that we have visitedonce before called the
Moonshiner.
So we'll be getting all dolledup in our 1920s outfits and
having fancy cocktails.
And this is the one that youenter by going through a pizza
shop through the freezer doorinto the hidden speakeasy.
(40:24):
And Rebecca back.
So after that Amy told us allabout the fact that she's kind
of in the doldrums with herSpanish.
She's not quite sure if she'sactually going to pass her
Spanish class or if she's goingto stick with this program.
You know, the usual up and downthat we keep having with our
language skills by choosingthese adventures.
We also talk about some of thelogistical challenges that come
(40:46):
along with things like trying toget a driver's license, and Amy
promises to tell us more aboutthat in a future episode.
I think that about sums up themost important parts, and
hopefully we won't lose ourmicrophones next time.
Thank you for remembering thatwe're just two humans trying to
record a podcast.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Bonjola.
(41:06):
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time!
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.