Where to find Aimee:
- Instagram: @vibrancenutrition
- Nutrition Coaching: vibrancenutrition.com
- Podcast on Nutrition: Blasphemous Nutrition
- Substack on Nomadic Life: NomadicNomMom
Where to find Rebecca:
- Instagram and her life in Paris: @beseriouslyhappy
- Podcast for Interior Design-preneurs: Stuff Interior Designers Need to Know
- Biz Coaching for Interior Designers: seriouslyhappy.com
- Book on Interior Design Psychology: Happy Starts at Home
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Bonjola, a podcastabout two women, Amy and
Rebecca, who each moved from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats, Amy to Spain andRebecca to France.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure, encourage you tofollow your own move abroad
dreams, and remind you thatyou're not alone when the going
gets tough.
Enjoy.
aimee-guest990_1_01 (00:25):
Buongiorno, Rebecca.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (00:27):
So last time we were together, we
had promised our listeners wewould talk about driver's
licenses.
This is mostly going to be yourknowledge, because I know all of
one fact when it comes to Franceand driver's licenses, because I
don't need one living in Paris.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (00:42):
Oh, what is that one fact?
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (00:44):
It is that, um, whether or not you
can basically transfer yourdriver's license from the States
to Paris and just get one herewithout having to go through the
schooling, depends entirely onwhich state you live in.
And Washington, I know, is notone of those states, and that is
the truth.
That is the entirety of myknowledge.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (01:06):
How exciting for you.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_1 (01:09):
Luckily, I don't need a car, so it's not
something I have to really worryabout navigating.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2 (01:14):
right, exactly.
I wish it was that simple herein Spain.
if you are in the EU.
It's not a problem, you know, ifyou're an EU citizen, getting a
Spanish driver's license interms of transferring it over is
not a problem, uh, for us, lowlyAmericans, and I believe now for
the Brits as well, because theyare now a third, I want to call
(01:38):
them a third, a third, a thirdcountry nation, third tier, uh,
country, you have to take a, youknow, Spanish driver's license.
And you have to go to Spanishdriving school.
It's not just written, you alsohave to go to driving school.
Now, where we live, the drivingschool is in either Spanish or
(01:58):
Catalan.
That's it.
the written exam, because it isin It's a national exam is
offered in Spanish.
However.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, it's offered in SpanishHowever, it is my understanding
that you can take the test inother languages, which is
effectively just GoogleTranslate the test so it's
(02:24):
really bad Jacked upTranslation.
I shouldn't say really badbecause Google I mean
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (02:32):
It's getting better.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (02:32):
It's getting better.
However, nuance is still not itsforte.
Okay.
And with driving exams, I mean,there's going to be some nuance
thrown in there, right?
So that is, it's problematic.
And I, I've actually been toldthat by some people rather,
rather than just reading thestudy manual, you know, the
(02:56):
Google translate version of thestudy manual to take the exam.
Because the chances of failureare so high that it is better to
actually just do the practiceexams so that you can get
familiar with the questions andkind of train yourself on how to
answer the question based on howit's worded over what it's
(03:18):
actually, like what it actuallymeans.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (03:22):
and you're also almost approaching
it like a language lesson, likeyou're going to study Spanish
via the driver's exams whilelearning how to Interpret their
kind of test and their kind oftest language,
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (03:37):
Yeah, if you take it in Spanish, you
know, I
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134 (03:39):
right?
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (03:40):
if you don't know enough Spanish to
take the exam Then then you haveto work with Google Translate
and just sort of gauge TheSpanglish
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (03:50):
And so you're saying study the
spanglish versions of thepractice exams.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (03:55):
plan on taking the Spanglish version
of the test.
Absolutely.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134 (04:00):
that's pretty
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (04:01):
Yeah, so you can learn how
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (04:03):
Have you been through it?
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (04:04):
Oh God, no.
No, because here's, here's theclincher.
Here's the clincher.
There are so few.
There, first, this process isvery expensive as well.
In total, it's roughly athousand euro to get a
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (04:20):
Oh my gosh,
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (04:21):
Mm hmm.
Because you have to pay for theschool, right, to do the, to
take the lessons on how todrive.
And then there are like fees andthings.
I don't actually know thebreakdown of this, but I'm told
it's a, in total it's about athousand euro.
When you finish taking yourSpanish driving classes through
(04:42):
the driver's school, you have alimited amount of time.
I want to say.
I want to say it's three monthsto take your written exam, but
to sit for the exam, there'ssuch a backlog to sit for the
exam that in many places, youcannot sit for an exam for at
(05:02):
least six to nine months,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (05:04):
wow.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (05:05):
which if you can do basic math, you
see very quickly, this is a bigproblem.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (05:13):
Now, we took a big road trip through
Spain and we just had aninternational driving license.
So when somebody first movesover, or with you guys, you guys
have taken road trips, as a newexpat, how have you approached
this?
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (05:28):
You have your passport and your
international driver's license.
You're renting a car.
It's not your car, right?
There we go.
Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
Act as though you're a tourist.
And, you know,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (05:41):
what does that keep you from doing?
If you, like, what's, what wouldbe the benefit, if any, of going
through the process of getting aproper Spanish driving license?
Yes.
Yes.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (05:51):
well, while you can buy a car without
having a proper Spanish driver'slicense, if you get pulled over
or if you get into an accidentand the car is registered in
your name, but you do not have aSpanish driver's license, That's
an inconsistency that they'regoing to have issues with.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (06:10):
Got it.
Yeah.
So there's, I mean, there isthis in between phase when we
first become expats, like Damienand I still being in the Airbnb
system, that obviously would notbe a 10 year plan where you do
sort of, uh, put on thetemporary solution.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28 (06:26):
Exactly.
Exactly.
I have a friend who is trying totake the Spanish exam, the
driving, the written exam, andthere's nothing available in our
area.
There's nothing available inBarcelona.
There's nothing available, like,in the province, and she's
actually going to go toValencia, which is a six hour
train ride, to the south part ofthe country because she can get
(06:50):
an appointment there.
And this is what, like, this iswhat people who have the means
are doing, is they are likeflying over to Galicia or going
down to Valencia or somewherewhere there are openings because
there are not any up here.
And I think too, I have afeeling this is part of what,
(07:11):
this is part of the grievancesin Catalonia because again, we
pay so much, we pay more taxesin this region than any other
area in the country.
And the, the feedback that Ihear is that for the amount that
we pay in taxes, we do not havenearly the resources.
(07:31):
That are available to people wholive in Madrid where they pay
the least amount of taxes ofanywhere in the country.
Um, they have a better metrosystem, right?
I think you can still get anappointment in Madrid to do your
driver's exam or the wait isless because they have more
staff,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (07:51):
Got it.
And this is one of those thingstoo, where when you're doing
your researching about moving toa country, this might not come
up in a Google search becauseSpain doesn't have a problem,
but they aren't.
Zeroing in on the idea of, well,what about the Catalonia region,
which might have a verydifferent story.
It's such a good example of thekinds of things you just don't
(08:13):
even think to think ahead aboutanyway.
Who would have thought thatwould be something challenging
to navigate, especially comingfrom the United States, where
getting a driver's license ispractically a birthright, and
it's so easy.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (08:28):
Yeah.
And there are a lot of peoplehere who just don't bother.
They do buy cars and they dodrive around with their.
You know, their foreign driver'slicense and just like, you know,
I guess hope they don't get intoan accident or something.
I don't know.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_1348 (08:45):
Well, that's what I was going to ask
next.
I assume that means that theyare completely uninsured.
I don't know if it's common tobe insured otherwise.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (08:53):
Um, I don't know.
I have no idea because, youknow, from what I've overheard,
it wasn't a situation where Iwas probing.
So I didn't ask about theinsurance question.
Or maybe the vehicles areinsured instead of the driver
being insured the vehicle'sinsured.
I don't know.
I don't know anything about thevehicle insurance thing here
(09:14):
because again, that's so manysteps removed.
From where we are at in thatprocess,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (09:21):
It is like an onion and you're
like, I'm only on the outerlayer, guys.
Like I don't even know what's onthe inside of this onion.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (09:28):
am writing on top of a bacteria
that is sitting on the outermostlayer of the onion.
That's where I'm at.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134 (09:35):
You're not even aware of it being an
aimee-guest990_1_01-28 (09:36):
Exactly.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (09:39):
Yes, that is the reality.
Oh my goodness.
Wow.
That actually makes me feel muchbetter about our decision.
Whenever we rent cars, when wetake these road trips, we always
get the, you can turn this carin totaled insurance.
And now that I'm realizing thatthere could be so many
uninsured, recklessly, I don'tknow, minded people on the road,
(10:07):
I'm really glad that we had thatextra layer of protection.
Sets your mind at ease.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (10:11):
in France to get the super duper
extra insurance?
Like, do you, like, if you breakit down, is it as exorbitant as
it is in the States?
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (10:20):
I, wish I could answer that
question, but the one thingabout my personality is I do not
remember numbers.
I evaluate them.
I math them.
I make decisions about them.
And then once the money isspent, I have no idea what
things used to cost unless Ilook it up.
However, my husband would knowexactly what that number was.
(10:41):
So someday we can ask him.
Yeah.
I do know that renting a caralways makes me choke on
materials a little bit.
Cost wise, um, especially inEurope with the cost of fuel
being quite a bit
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (10:53):
Oh yeah, for sure.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (10:55):
but you know, that is one part of me
that is incredibly American.
I love.
A road trip.
It lets you see a country in away that you can't really in any
other way.
Way.
I mean, train travel obviouslyis awesome because you can
totally focus on the trip, butyou are restricted to the route
that the train is going to letyou see from the window.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2 (11:17):
Right.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (11:18):
Um, and Damien loves to drive.
I love, I do not love driving,but I love the road trip.
So it's a big part of ouradventuring habit.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (11:27):
Yeah, that's nice.
And that actually, that hasallowed you to see quite a bit
of France.
rebecca_1_01-28-202 (11:32):
Absolutely.
And this country is remarkablein how varied it is from region
to region.
when we drove it, it felt almostas varied as the United States,
but in much smaller pockets,obviously, because it's a
smaller country overall.
That's incredible.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (11:51):
Yeah, I think, I mean, the same is
true.
The same is true for Spain, andI haven't, you know, that said,
I haven't seen a lot of it, butI've read about a lot of the
different regions, and, youknow, people always talk about,
oh, Spain, it must be hot andsunny, and it's like, well,
yeah, the place is where a lotof people go.
Like Malaga and Sevilla andGranada and Valencia.
(12:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
That is like, those are hottouristy, tropical, not tropical
per se, but, you know, beachy,hot areas.
Um, but you know, up here it'sdefinitely greener.
It's more arid, you know, thanthe Pacific Northwest, but my
understanding is that theeastern side of the country is
(12:36):
much greener than even here andmore, they call it green Spain,
Galicia, and,, part of, parts ofthe Basque country are quite a
bit more greener, get a lot morerain, and those are areas I
really want to check out.
Actually, those are areas thatwe're going to be walking
through in a couple of months.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (12:56):
Yes, because I don't know if we've
actually told our listeners thatwe are walking part of the
Camino de Santiago trail.
I'm really excited about that.
This is something that I havewanted to do and not this
necessarily this route, butthose walking pilgrimages is
something I've wanted to do fora long time.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (13:15):
What draws you to them?
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (13:19):
My mind is always so busy and I'm
almost always multitasking.
Um, In the past, like painting awall was one of the few times I
wasn't, it was very meditativeand walking a lot like that.
For me, it's, um, it's physical,but it's meditative and it's
(13:41):
really nice balance of those twothings.
And the pace of walking, youknow, it's like what I was just
talking about with a road trip,but even better because you see
it.
You know, I don't know the snapdragons on the side of the road
and you get to enjoy the shapeof the cloud and then watch it
change.
And we don't get hardly any timelike that in our modern life.
(14:06):
And I'm really torn aboutwhether I even want to take any
cell phone with me or anything.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (14:14):
Whoa.
That's hardcore.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (14:16):
know because I really want pictures.
But I really want this to be ameditative and very connecting
journey, connecting with myselfand connecting with you and, and
the other walkers on the, on thepath.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (14:32):
What if you brought your cell phone
and I carried it?
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134 (14:37):
That's a really interesting idea.
We could even exchange if youwere wanting something similar,
we should talk about that.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (14:44):
And I could put it in my backpack
and then you would have toovercome the immense amount of
shame.
In asking me for your phone,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (14:54):
Oh, you know what we could do,
though, instead of me beingthinking about, oh, this is a
great time to get a picture orcontent because again,
multitasking, right?
What if it was more like you setan alarm and all you're allowed
to do is take pictures at 920and 407 and no matter where you
are or what you're doing, that'sthe photo you get.
(15:16):
And so you're recording thetrip, but you're leaving it to
fate to determine what yourecord.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_0 (15:23):
I completely veto that idea.
You can do with your cell phone.
What is appropriate for you?
But
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (15:34):
this is the start of a conversation
that we can continue later.
Yeah.
I'm excited.
What made you want to do it?
Had it been on your bucket
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (15:42):
it actually was not on my bucket
list.
Um, and then I found out itexisted and I was like, Oh, that
would be cool to do someday, butit wasn't really like a burning
urge.
It was like, 1 of those.
Yeah, someday that would be neatto do, you know, because I, I
have also always want to do thePacific, um, the Pacific coast
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (16:00):
Hmm.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (16:02):
which I never had a chance to do.
Um, you know, I knew in the backof my mind, you're moving to
Spain, you should do El Caminothat it was going to end up
being a PCT thing.
We're like, oh, it's rightthere.
I'll get to it sometime.
And then like, you know, itnever would have happened.
So when you were like, look atthis, I'm going to do it.
I was like, okay, I guess I'mdoing it because then it will
actually happen.
(16:24):
And I've had enough, um, arduousphysical tests of endurance over
my life that I, I'm not like,I'm not worried about it.
And if it's bad, I know what badlooks like both from the mental
(16:46):
side of things as well as thephysical side of things.
Cause I've also done like aVipassana meditation, which is a
10 day silent meditationretreat.
So like just sitting and beingtrapped in your own mind for
hours and hours.
I know what that's like too.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (17:00):
I have done a silent retreat
before and what I found mostinteresting about it was how
loud all of the other attendeeswere just in being human.
All of the little flies andsnuffles and oh my gosh, humans
are noisy.
Um, so if I ever do a silentretreat again, I would like to
(17:21):
be with myself and some trees.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (17:22):
Mm.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (17:24):
Um, I've never really challenged
myself physically.
Um, I did do a marathon once andI say I completed a marathon
cause I ran about a third of it,but I ended up walking the other
two thirds.
But because I did that, I'mlike, well, That's a good start
to this Camino thing.
(17:44):
The only thing I haven't done isdone that distance day after day
after
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2 (17:49):
That's the, that's the clincher.
Yeah.
And I, you know, I had textedyou over the weekend because I
had done a nine mile run.
Um, and then the next day did aseven mile hike and I was like,
Oh shit, I'm out of shapebecause I should be able to do
that without any problems.
(18:10):
You know, I knew my legs wouldbe tired, but I didn't think
that they would be, they wouldfeel so shredded.
Like they did Sunday night.
Thankfully, when I woke upMonday, my body had recovered
really well.
So I was like, okay, it's not asbad.
It's not as it's, you know, daysand days of, of agony because it
did feel Sunday night.
(18:30):
It sort of felt like I had raceda half marathon.
Um,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (18:36):
And you are a runner and the
mechanics of running are quitedifferent from the mechanics of
walking.
I do not run.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (18:42):
yeah, a hundred percent.
You know, my thought was to gointo the hike on tired legs
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (18:48):
Mm hmm.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (18:49):
as a, yeah, as a, test of, you
know,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (18:52):
And there's an age thing here, you
know.
I, if I sit for too long, I haveto go through what I describe as
the great unfolding.
You know, the body doesn't justbounce back up again.
Um, but that's also why I wantto do this at just about 48.
I want to Go into my fiftiessaying, no, my body not only can
(19:16):
do what it used to do, butprobably more.
And I just need to ask it to do.
So, because I know that's goingto be really key to enjoying my
body in the sixties andseventies.
So that's another real bigmotivator for me to do this.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (19:30):
yeah.
The consistency is key though,because we don't, we don't know
that we can no longer get up offthe floor without using our
hands, bend over, touch ourtoes.
we don't know that this, this,Has happened to us if we aren't
trying to do it every day.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (19:51):
so late that you have to work super
hard to repair what's missing.
Damien and I, I don't thinkwe've mentioned it on here yet.
We found an app calledPliability and it's a daily
stretching app.
Um, that doesn't make us insane.
Cause some of the apps are sobad.
We've been really happy with it.
And it's amazing.
(20:12):
turned into about a 20 minutemeditative stretching routine
because you hold the stretchesfor about three minutes a
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (20:18):
Oh, wow.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (20:19):
So it's become a point of calm in
our days and it has incrediblylubricated our joints.
From the consistency, it's beenover a year now that we've been
doing it.
And we've seen remarkablechanges in our flexibility,
which is really exciting whenyou're crossing over the 50
(20:40):
mark, like, Hey, look,improvement instead of
degradation.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (20:43):
Yeah.
It never is.
It's never too late.
It's never too late.
there's clinical research thatshows that people in their 90s
can build muscle mass.
You're not going to, you know,if you're starting from scratch
at like 85, you're not going tolook like Jack LaLanne by the
time you're 90.
Exactly.
But.
You certainly can build muscleand strength and recover
(21:05):
mobility.
For the duration of your life solong as you have that
consistency and applied practice
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (21:12):
Yep.
Only way you won't do it is ifyou just convince yourself that
not even the trying's not evenworth
aimee-guest990_1_01-28 (21:20):
Exactly.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (21:21):
That is the surest road to failure.
Well, that's the catch up.
We talked about all thingsdriver's licensee.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (21:29):
Mmm good times.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (21:33):
Um, anything else you want to share
about your journey?
How's the Spanish since youremotional crisis last week?
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (21:40):
Oh Gosh, actually, well, I
completed my exams, you know, Ifeel more optimistic than last
year, but also Distrust myoptimism right because it leads
me
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (21:50):
So, we don't yet know if you've
passed,
aimee-guest990_1_01-2 (21:53):
Actually, I think the results come out
this afternoon.
So if assuming Assuming that Ican actually log into the
Spanish website And receive theresults, I will, get those
results by the end of the daytoday.
But that puts a great deal offaith in a website that I've not
had good experience with before.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (22:16):
but it does sound like you're
feeling a bit more positiveabout your Spanish skills than
you were last time we talked.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (22:22):
I've certainly learned and integrated
more over the past three, fourmonths, but, um, you know, I
don't know.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (22:34):
I think we can enjoy being at the
top of the roller coaster for asecond and we'll plummet down
within hours, but hey, we're notin that moment
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (22:41):
The view here is nice.
What can I say?
I
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_1348 (22:47):
Well, any words of encouragement for
our aspiring expats out there aswe leave them today?
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2 (22:52):
think, you know, with regards to
licensing and driving and all ofthose things that we don't know
are coming until we're here,keeping that at the forefront.
Will allow you to be morementally resilient and flexible
and You know it's the otherthing too is that it's really
(23:12):
really important to reach out tothose who have come before and
You know tap into the community.
What are their like?
How do they get how what havethey figured out to work around
this issue if there is literallyno appointments available even
if you do everything the wayyou're supposed to You know,
(23:33):
you're still like a shiz creekwithout a paddle.
then what, and there's a lot ofworkarounds that people have
come up with on how they can,continue to have the sort of
lifestyle that they're wantingwhile they are waiting for, or
finding a way to get thatappointment done.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_1348 (23:55):
Yeah, that sounds like a balance of,
you know, Learning to problemsolve and getting better at it
every day, because this isdefinitely going to give you
opportunities to practice.
But as you say, reaching out tothe community, because for me,
at least, recognizing that I'mnot doing anything wrong helps,
because otherwise I drive myselfcrazy going, what am I doing
(24:17):
wrong?
When I didn't need to beratemyself, it was a system failure,
not a not a human failure.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (24:25):
Yeah.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (24:26):
Good advice.
And I will say from my ownworld, the one thing that cars
always make me feel is when wewere deciding to do this whole
expat journey, one of thescariest moments was giving up
my car keys, selling back my carbecause I'd had one since I was
15.
That is.
Just part of being an American,because you can't get around
(24:48):
without it.
And, you know, so swapping outthis symbol of freedom, if you
will, was a really excitingmoment, like a milestone moment
where I was accepting the keysto a different form of freedom.
And so I would just tell peopleto watch for those moments that
(25:10):
make you feel nervous becausethose are actually also moments
of excitement.
They say you're doing it.
You're peeling back the layersand the next thing is coming
because you've been brave enoughto do
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (25:22):
love it.
Hasta luego.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Bonjola.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time!
Welcome to Bonjola, a podcastabout two women, Amy and
Rebecca, who each moved from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats, Amy to Spain andRebecca to France.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure, encourage you tofollow your own move abroad
dreams, and remind you thatyou're not alone when the going
gets tough.
Enjoy.
aimee-guest990_1_01 (00:25):
Buongiorno, Rebecca.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (00:27):
So last time we were together, we
had promised our listeners wewould talk about driver's
licenses.
This is mostly going to be yourknowledge, because I know all of
one fact when it comes to Franceand driver's licenses, because I
don't need one living in Paris.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (00:42):
Oh, what is that one fact?
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (00:44):
It is that, um, whether or not you
can basically transfer yourdriver's license from the States
to Paris and just get one herewithout having to go through the
schooling, depends entirely onwhich state you live in.
And Washington, I know, is notone of those states, and that is
the truth.
That is the entirety of myknowledge.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (01:06):
How exciting for you.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_1 (01:09):
Luckily, I don't need a car, so it's not
something I have to really worryabout navigating.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2 (01:14):
right, exactly.
I wish it was that simple herein Spain.
if you are in the EU.
It's not a problem, you know, ifyou're an EU citizen, getting a
Spanish driver's license interms of transferring it over is
not a problem, uh, for us, lowlyAmericans, and I believe now for
the Brits as well, because theyare now a third, I want to call
(01:38):
them a third, a third, a thirdcountry nation, third tier, uh,
country, you have to take a, youknow, Spanish driver's license.
And you have to go to Spanishdriving school.
It's not just written, you alsohave to go to driving school.
Now, where we live, the drivingschool is in either Spanish or
(01:58):
Catalan.
That's it.
the written exam, because it isin It's a national exam is
offered in Spanish.
However.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, it's offered in SpanishHowever, it is my understanding
that you can take the test inother languages, which is
effectively just GoogleTranslate the test so it's
(02:24):
really bad Jacked upTranslation.
I shouldn't say really badbecause Google I mean
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (02:32):
It's getting better.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (02:32):
It's getting better.
However, nuance is still not itsforte.
Okay.
And with driving exams, I mean,there's going to be some nuance
thrown in there, right?
So that is, it's problematic.
And I, I've actually been toldthat by some people rather,
rather than just reading thestudy manual, you know, the
(02:56):
Google translate version of thestudy manual to take the exam.
Because the chances of failureare so high that it is better to
actually just do the practiceexams so that you can get
familiar with the questions andkind of train yourself on how to
answer the question based on howit's worded over what it's
(03:18):
actually, like what it actuallymeans.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (03:22):
and you're also almost approaching
it like a language lesson, likeyou're going to study Spanish
via the driver's exams whilelearning how to Interpret their
kind of test and their kind oftest language,
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (03:37):
Yeah, if you take it in Spanish, you
know, I
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134 (03:39):
right?
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (03:40):
if you don't know enough Spanish to
take the exam Then then you haveto work with Google Translate
and just sort of gauge TheSpanglish
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (03:50):
And so you're saying study the
spanglish versions of thepractice exams.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (03:55):
plan on taking the Spanglish version
of the test.
Absolutely.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134 (04:00):
that's pretty
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (04:01):
Yeah, so you can learn how
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (04:03):
Have you been through it?
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (04:04):
Oh God, no.
No, because here's, here's theclincher.
Here's the clincher.
There are so few.
There, first, this process isvery expensive as well.
In total, it's roughly athousand euro to get a
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (04:20):
Oh my gosh,
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (04:21):
Mm hmm.
Because you have to pay for theschool, right, to do the, to
take the lessons on how todrive.
And then there are like fees andthings.
I don't actually know thebreakdown of this, but I'm told
it's a, in total it's about athousand euro.
When you finish taking yourSpanish driving classes through
(04:42):
the driver's school, you have alimited amount of time.
I want to say.
I want to say it's three monthsto take your written exam, but
to sit for the exam, there'ssuch a backlog to sit for the
exam that in many places, youcannot sit for an exam for at
(05:02):
least six to nine months,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (05:04):
wow.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (05:05):
which if you can do basic math, you
see very quickly, this is a bigproblem.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (05:13):
Now, we took a big road trip through
Spain and we just had aninternational driving license.
So when somebody first movesover, or with you guys, you guys
have taken road trips, as a newexpat, how have you approached
this?
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (05:28):
You have your passport and your
international driver's license.
You're renting a car.
It's not your car, right?
There we go.
Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
Act as though you're a tourist.
And, you know,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (05:41):
what does that keep you from doing?
If you, like, what's, what wouldbe the benefit, if any, of going
through the process of getting aproper Spanish driving license?
Yes.
Yes.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (05:51):
well, while you can buy a car without
having a proper Spanish driver'slicense, if you get pulled over
or if you get into an accidentand the car is registered in
your name, but you do not have aSpanish driver's license, That's
an inconsistency that they'regoing to have issues with.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (06:10):
Got it.
Yeah.
So there's, I mean, there isthis in between phase when we
first become expats, like Damienand I still being in the Airbnb
system, that obviously would notbe a 10 year plan where you do
sort of, uh, put on thetemporary solution.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28 (06:26):
Exactly.
Exactly.
I have a friend who is trying totake the Spanish exam, the
driving, the written exam, andthere's nothing available in our
area.
There's nothing available inBarcelona.
There's nothing available, like,in the province, and she's
actually going to go toValencia, which is a six hour
train ride, to the south part ofthe country because she can get
(06:50):
an appointment there.
And this is what, like, this iswhat people who have the means
are doing, is they are likeflying over to Galicia or going
down to Valencia or somewherewhere there are openings because
there are not any up here.
And I think too, I have afeeling this is part of what,
(07:11):
this is part of the grievancesin Catalonia because again, we
pay so much, we pay more taxesin this region than any other
area in the country.
And the, the feedback that Ihear is that for the amount that
we pay in taxes, we do not havenearly the resources.
(07:31):
That are available to people wholive in Madrid where they pay
the least amount of taxes ofanywhere in the country.
Um, they have a better metrosystem, right?
I think you can still get anappointment in Madrid to do your
driver's exam or the wait isless because they have more
staff,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (07:51):
Got it.
And this is one of those thingstoo, where when you're doing
your researching about moving toa country, this might not come
up in a Google search becauseSpain doesn't have a problem,
but they aren't.
Zeroing in on the idea of, well,what about the Catalonia region,
which might have a verydifferent story.
It's such a good example of thekinds of things you just don't
(08:13):
even think to think ahead aboutanyway.
Who would have thought thatwould be something challenging
to navigate, especially comingfrom the United States, where
getting a driver's license ispractically a birthright, and
it's so easy.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (08:28):
Yeah.
And there are a lot of peoplehere who just don't bother.
They do buy cars and they dodrive around with their.
You know, their foreign driver'slicense and just like, you know,
I guess hope they don't get intoan accident or something.
I don't know.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_1348 (08:45):
Well, that's what I was going to ask
next.
I assume that means that theyare completely uninsured.
I don't know if it's common tobe insured otherwise.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (08:53):
Um, I don't know.
I have no idea because, youknow, from what I've overheard,
it wasn't a situation where Iwas probing.
So I didn't ask about theinsurance question.
Or maybe the vehicles areinsured instead of the driver
being insured the vehicle'sinsured.
I don't know.
I don't know anything about thevehicle insurance thing here
(09:14):
because again, that's so manysteps removed.
From where we are at in thatprocess,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (09:21):
It is like an onion and you're
like, I'm only on the outerlayer, guys.
Like I don't even know what's onthe inside of this onion.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (09:28):
am writing on top of a bacteria
that is sitting on the outermostlayer of the onion.
That's where I'm at.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134 (09:35):
You're not even aware of it being an
aimee-guest990_1_01-28 (09:36):
Exactly.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (09:39):
Yes, that is the reality.
Oh my goodness.
Wow.
That actually makes me feel muchbetter about our decision.
Whenever we rent cars, when wetake these road trips, we always
get the, you can turn this carin totaled insurance.
And now that I'm realizing thatthere could be so many
uninsured, recklessly, I don'tknow, minded people on the road,
(10:07):
I'm really glad that we had thatextra layer of protection.
Sets your mind at ease.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (10:11):
in France to get the super duper
extra insurance?
Like, do you, like, if you breakit down, is it as exorbitant as
it is in the States?
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (10:20):
I, wish I could answer that
question, but the one thingabout my personality is I do not
remember numbers.
I evaluate them.
I math them.
I make decisions about them.
And then once the money isspent, I have no idea what
things used to cost unless Ilook it up.
However, my husband would knowexactly what that number was.
(10:41):
So someday we can ask him.
Yeah.
I do know that renting a caralways makes me choke on
materials a little bit.
Cost wise, um, especially inEurope with the cost of fuel
being quite a bit
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (10:53):
Oh yeah, for sure.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (10:55):
but you know, that is one part of me
that is incredibly American.
I love.
A road trip.
It lets you see a country in away that you can't really in any
other way.
Way.
I mean, train travel obviouslyis awesome because you can
totally focus on the trip, butyou are restricted to the route
that the train is going to letyou see from the window.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2 (11:17):
Right.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (11:18):
Um, and Damien loves to drive.
I love, I do not love driving,but I love the road trip.
So it's a big part of ouradventuring habit.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (11:27):
Yeah, that's nice.
And that actually, that hasallowed you to see quite a bit
of France.
rebecca_1_01-28-202 (11:32):
Absolutely.
And this country is remarkablein how varied it is from region
to region.
when we drove it, it felt almostas varied as the United States,
but in much smaller pockets,obviously, because it's a
smaller country overall.
That's incredible.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (11:51):
Yeah, I think, I mean, the same is
true.
The same is true for Spain, andI haven't, you know, that said,
I haven't seen a lot of it, butI've read about a lot of the
different regions, and, youknow, people always talk about,
oh, Spain, it must be hot andsunny, and it's like, well,
yeah, the place is where a lotof people go.
Like Malaga and Sevilla andGranada and Valencia.
(12:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
That is like, those are hottouristy, tropical, not tropical
per se, but, you know, beachy,hot areas.
Um, but you know, up here it'sdefinitely greener.
It's more arid, you know, thanthe Pacific Northwest, but my
understanding is that theeastern side of the country is
(12:36):
much greener than even here andmore, they call it green Spain,
Galicia, and,, part of, parts ofthe Basque country are quite a
bit more greener, get a lot morerain, and those are areas I
really want to check out.
Actually, those are areas thatwe're going to be walking
through in a couple of months.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (12:56):
Yes, because I don't know if we've
actually told our listeners thatwe are walking part of the
Camino de Santiago trail.
I'm really excited about that.
This is something that I havewanted to do and not this
necessarily this route, butthose walking pilgrimages is
something I've wanted to do fora long time.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (13:15):
What draws you to them?
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (13:19):
My mind is always so busy and I'm
almost always multitasking.
Um, In the past, like painting awall was one of the few times I
wasn't, it was very meditativeand walking a lot like that.
For me, it's, um, it's physical,but it's meditative and it's
(13:41):
really nice balance of those twothings.
And the pace of walking, youknow, it's like what I was just
talking about with a road trip,but even better because you see
it.
You know, I don't know the snapdragons on the side of the road
and you get to enjoy the shapeof the cloud and then watch it
change.
And we don't get hardly any timelike that in our modern life.
(14:06):
And I'm really torn aboutwhether I even want to take any
cell phone with me or anything.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (14:14):
Whoa.
That's hardcore.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (14:16):
know because I really want pictures.
But I really want this to be ameditative and very connecting
journey, connecting with myselfand connecting with you and, and
the other walkers on the, on thepath.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (14:32):
What if you brought your cell phone
and I carried it?
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134 (14:37):
That's a really interesting idea.
We could even exchange if youwere wanting something similar,
we should talk about that.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (14:44):
And I could put it in my backpack
and then you would have toovercome the immense amount of
shame.
In asking me for your phone,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (14:54):
Oh, you know what we could do,
though, instead of me beingthinking about, oh, this is a
great time to get a picture orcontent because again,
multitasking, right?
What if it was more like you setan alarm and all you're allowed
to do is take pictures at 920and 407 and no matter where you
are or what you're doing, that'sthe photo you get.
(15:16):
And so you're recording thetrip, but you're leaving it to
fate to determine what yourecord.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_0 (15:23):
I completely veto that idea.
You can do with your cell phone.
What is appropriate for you?
But
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (15:34):
this is the start of a conversation
that we can continue later.
Yeah.
I'm excited.
What made you want to do it?
Had it been on your bucket
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (15:42):
it actually was not on my bucket
list.
Um, and then I found out itexisted and I was like, Oh, that
would be cool to do someday, butit wasn't really like a burning
urge.
It was like, 1 of those.
Yeah, someday that would be neatto do, you know, because I, I
have also always want to do thePacific, um, the Pacific coast
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (16:00):
Hmm.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (16:02):
which I never had a chance to do.
Um, you know, I knew in the backof my mind, you're moving to
Spain, you should do El Caminothat it was going to end up
being a PCT thing.
We're like, oh, it's rightthere.
I'll get to it sometime.
And then like, you know, itnever would have happened.
So when you were like, look atthis, I'm going to do it.
I was like, okay, I guess I'mdoing it because then it will
actually happen.
(16:24):
And I've had enough, um, arduousphysical tests of endurance over
my life that I, I'm not like,I'm not worried about it.
And if it's bad, I know what badlooks like both from the mental
(16:46):
side of things as well as thephysical side of things.
Cause I've also done like aVipassana meditation, which is a
10 day silent meditationretreat.
So like just sitting and beingtrapped in your own mind for
hours and hours.
I know what that's like too.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (17:00):
I have done a silent retreat
before and what I found mostinteresting about it was how
loud all of the other attendeeswere just in being human.
All of the little flies andsnuffles and oh my gosh, humans
are noisy.
Um, so if I ever do a silentretreat again, I would like to
(17:21):
be with myself and some trees.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (17:22):
Mm.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (17:24):
Um, I've never really challenged
myself physically.
Um, I did do a marathon once andI say I completed a marathon
cause I ran about a third of it,but I ended up walking the other
two thirds.
But because I did that, I'mlike, well, That's a good start
to this Camino thing.
(17:44):
The only thing I haven't done isdone that distance day after day
after
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2 (17:49):
That's the, that's the clincher.
Yeah.
And I, you know, I had textedyou over the weekend because I
had done a nine mile run.
Um, and then the next day did aseven mile hike and I was like,
Oh shit, I'm out of shapebecause I should be able to do
that without any problems.
(18:10):
You know, I knew my legs wouldbe tired, but I didn't think
that they would be, they wouldfeel so shredded.
Like they did Sunday night.
Thankfully, when I woke upMonday, my body had recovered
really well.
So I was like, okay, it's not asbad.
It's not as it's, you know, daysand days of, of agony because it
did feel Sunday night.
(18:30):
It sort of felt like I had raceda half marathon.
Um,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (18:36):
And you are a runner and the
mechanics of running are quitedifferent from the mechanics of
walking.
I do not run.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (18:42):
yeah, a hundred percent.
You know, my thought was to gointo the hike on tired legs
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (18:48):
Mm hmm.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (18:49):
as a, yeah, as a, test of, you
know,
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (18:52):
And there's an age thing here, you
know.
I, if I sit for too long, I haveto go through what I describe as
the great unfolding.
You know, the body doesn't justbounce back up again.
Um, but that's also why I wantto do this at just about 48.
I want to Go into my fiftiessaying, no, my body not only can
(19:16):
do what it used to do, butprobably more.
And I just need to ask it to do.
So, because I know that's goingto be really key to enjoying my
body in the sixties andseventies.
So that's another real bigmotivator for me to do this.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (19:30):
yeah.
The consistency is key though,because we don't, we don't know
that we can no longer get up offthe floor without using our
hands, bend over, touch ourtoes.
we don't know that this, this,Has happened to us if we aren't
trying to do it every day.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (19:51):
so late that you have to work super
hard to repair what's missing.
Damien and I, I don't thinkwe've mentioned it on here yet.
We found an app calledPliability and it's a daily
stretching app.
Um, that doesn't make us insane.
Cause some of the apps are sobad.
We've been really happy with it.
And it's amazing.
(20:12):
turned into about a 20 minutemeditative stretching routine
because you hold the stretchesfor about three minutes a
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (20:18):
Oh, wow.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (20:19):
So it's become a point of calm in
our days and it has incrediblylubricated our joints.
From the consistency, it's beenover a year now that we've been
doing it.
And we've seen remarkablechanges in our flexibility,
which is really exciting whenyou're crossing over the 50
(20:40):
mark, like, Hey, look,improvement instead of
degradation.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (20:43):
Yeah.
It never is.
It's never too late.
It's never too late.
there's clinical research thatshows that people in their 90s
can build muscle mass.
You're not going to, you know,if you're starting from scratch
at like 85, you're not going tolook like Jack LaLanne by the
time you're 90.
Exactly.
But.
You certainly can build muscleand strength and recover
(21:05):
mobility.
For the duration of your life solong as you have that
consistency and applied practice
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (21:12):
Yep.
Only way you won't do it is ifyou just convince yourself that
not even the trying's not evenworth
aimee-guest990_1_01-28 (21:20):
Exactly.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (21:21):
That is the surest road to failure.
Well, that's the catch up.
We talked about all thingsdriver's licensee.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (21:29):
Mmm good times.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (21:33):
Um, anything else you want to share
about your journey?
How's the Spanish since youremotional crisis last week?
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025_ (21:40):
Oh Gosh, actually, well, I
completed my exams, you know, Ifeel more optimistic than last
year, but also Distrust myoptimism right because it leads
me
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (21:50):
So, we don't yet know if you've
passed,
aimee-guest990_1_01-2 (21:53):
Actually, I think the results come out
this afternoon.
So if assuming Assuming that Ican actually log into the
Spanish website And receive theresults, I will, get those
results by the end of the daytoday.
But that puts a great deal offaith in a website that I've not
had good experience with before.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (22:16):
but it does sound like you're
feeling a bit more positiveabout your Spanish skills than
you were last time we talked.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (22:22):
I've certainly learned and integrated
more over the past three, fourmonths, but, um, you know, I
don't know.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_134845 (22:34):
I think we can enjoy being at the
top of the roller coaster for asecond and we'll plummet down
within hours, but hey, we're notin that moment
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2025 (22:41):
The view here is nice.
What can I say?
I
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_1348 (22:47):
Well, any words of encouragement for
our aspiring expats out there aswe leave them today?
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-2 (22:52):
think, you know, with regards to
licensing and driving and all ofthose things that we don't know
are coming until we're here,keeping that at the forefront.
Will allow you to be morementally resilient and flexible
and You know it's the otherthing too is that it's really
(23:12):
really important to reach out tothose who have come before and
You know tap into the community.
What are their like?
How do they get how what havethey figured out to work around
this issue if there is literallyno appointments available even
if you do everything the wayyou're supposed to You know,
(23:33):
you're still like a shiz creekwithout a paddle.
then what, and there's a lot ofworkarounds that people have
come up with on how they can,continue to have the sort of
lifestyle that they're wantingwhile they are waiting for, or
finding a way to get thatappointment done.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_1348 (23:55):
Yeah, that sounds like a balance of,
you know, Learning to problemsolve and getting better at it
every day, because this isdefinitely going to give you
opportunities to practice.
But as you say, reaching out tothe community, because for me,
at least, recognizing that I'mnot doing anything wrong helps,
because otherwise I drive myselfcrazy going, what am I doing
(24:17):
wrong?
When I didn't need to beratemyself, it was a system failure,
not a not a human failure.
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-20 (24:25):
Yeah.
rebecca_1_01-28-2025_13484 (24:26):
Good advice.
And I will say from my ownworld, the one thing that cars
always make me feel is when wewere deciding to do this whole
expat journey, one of thescariest moments was giving up
my car keys, selling back my carbecause I'd had one since I was
15.
That is.
Just part of being an American,because you can't get around
(24:48):
without it.
And, you know, so swapping outthis symbol of freedom, if you
will, was a really excitingmoment, like a milestone moment
where I was accepting the keysto a different form of freedom.
And so I would just tell peopleto watch for those moments that
(25:10):
make you feel nervous becausethose are actually also moments
of excitement.
They say you're doing it.
You're peeling back the layersand the next thing is coming
because you've been brave enoughto do
aimee-guest990_1_01-28-202 (25:22):
love it.
Hasta luego.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Bonjola.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time!
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