May 10, 2025 • 41 mins
Check Out Rebecca's Book: Happy Starts at Home
Where to find Aimee:
- Instagram: @vibrancenutrition
- Nutrition Coaching: vibrancenutrition.com
- Podcast on Nutrition: Blasphemous Nutrition
- Substack on Nomadic Life: NomadicNomMom
Where to find Rebecca:
- Instagram and her life in Paris: @beseriouslyhappy
- Podcast for Interior Design-preneurs: Stuff Interior Designers Need to Know
- Biz Coaching for Interior Designers: seriouslyhappy.com
- Book on Interior Design Psychology: Happy Starts at Home
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker (00:01):
Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Aimee
and Rebecca, who each move fromthe United States to Europe to
become expats.
Aimee to Spain and Rebecca toFrance.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure.
Encourage you to follow yourown, move abroad dreams, and
remind you that you're not alonewhen the going gets tough.
Enjoy.
Aimee (00:24):
Bonjhola, Rebecca.
Rebecca (00:25):
Bonjhola Aimee.
Aimee (00:26):
You have reached the one year milestone of being an expat
we thought it would be fun foryou to kind of do a recap of
what have I learned in in thelast 12 months living outside
the US
Rebecca (00:41):
And the one year milestone is a very big deal
because of the visa renewalaspect.
So it's a milestone in a lot ofemotional ways, but there's also
some extremely unpleasantbureaucratic lifting I'm facing
at this one year mark thatpeople should know about.
Aimee (00:55):
yeah.
And I've not had that experiencebecause our visa, the digital
nomad visa, because we submittedit from within the country, our
first round is three years.
Rebecca (01:06):
I am so jealous of you for that right now.
And I will say one of the thingsthat has been most surprising to
me about doing Bonjhola andhaving these parallel
experiences is how I.
Much the same they are, but
Aimee (01:18):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (01:19):
many ways in which they vary has been really surprising
to me.
So I thought I would start withmy number one piece of advice
for anybody who wants to move toFrance, and that is choose one
place to live and go through theeffort of getting a proper
lease.
It is hard to get an apartmentas a foreigner in France.
(01:39):
Nonetheless, you need to do itnow.
It would've worked for us to doan Airbnb for three or six
months and then move into asolid lease, and that would
probably be the way I'd do it ifI were giving some advice,
because being here on theground.
You can maybe work with anagent, maybe see the places,
'cause things move so quickly.
Aimee (01:56):
Right.
Rebecca (01:57):
You know, people make decisions about apartments
without enough information.
Like there's a whole lot ofreasons we didn't go down that
path.
But the problem is that.
The Visa people want you to showthat you've got stability in the
country, And Airbnb not onlydoesn't kinda show that, but
they're just not used to lookingat that as a legit lodging.
(02:18):
So it's just created a.
Problems for, we don't haveutility bills in our names.
We don't have a lease in ourname.
We don't have those pieces ofessential paper that
bureaucratic countries, which isall of them if we're being
honest with ourselves.
Want
Aimee (02:33):
And what are you specifically butting up against?
Not having that firmdocumentation in Paris.
Rebecca (02:38):
before example?
All right, so right now I'mworking on the visa, and so
since I.
Don't have utilities in my name.
I needed to go get a mobileaccount, a a phone mobile
account in my name.
I never wanted to do thatbecause I've got this fancy
pants.
Verizon plan cost me a ton ofmoney because it's my business
line.
So I was like, I'm not gonnadouble up.
Big mistake.
(02:59):
So if you do follow in myfootsteps, get a mobile plan.
You need some piece of paperwith your name and your
corresponding address on it.
So I'm finding that with theVisa and I got the mobile
account, but I got it too late.
So today I had to call.
I had to call people in French.
Aimee (03:16):
Oh, it's the worst.
Rebecca (03:18):
was, so I went to free mobile, which is the one I'm
using.
I.
In person and in my French, Isaid, can you please, please,
please help me.
I need an attestation or a billwith my name and address.
And I said, Nope.
We cannot help you with that inperson.
You can call this number.
I knew that, but I don't want tomake a French phone call.
Aimee (03:36):
For those of you who have not had the experience of trying
to navigate a telephone call ina language which.
You are not skilled in.
It is a unique form of hell andit really highlights how much we
use our sight to yeah, to tonavigate conversation, to get
tone, to get inflection, likevisual cues.
Cues.
(03:57):
As well as, I think to someextent, we all read lips if we
are struggling to understandwhat someone is saying, and we
just do it automatically, and sodon't realize how much we do it
until you're navigating alanguage that is.
Rebecca (04:12):
Not
Aimee (04:12):
Not your primary language over a telephone, which despite
technology is still not as clearas standing across from
somebody.
Rebecca (04:19):
That's actually a really important aspect to this.
'cause when you and I wereyoungsters, ma Bell, you know,
the sprint, you could hear a pindrop.
They don't care about audioquality anymore.
So yeah, that does level it up.
So, and I'd already tried, youknow, I'm not a complete.
So I had tried, but I couldn'teffectively navigate the phone
tree.
I couldn't even give to a personbecause of the French.
(04:40):
So I'd given up kind of easily.
I admit that I went to freemobile.
Can you help me?
No, you can call this number.
So I said, okay, fine.
So I called the number and I Isaid, in French ur, is there
anybody who speaks English andcan help me?
And he says, in French.
Yes, but we're not allowed tohelp you in English.
(05:01):
And I, I'm guessing, and I haveno idea why.
I'm guessing it's because theywouldn't be able to really
quality control that could.
They make sure that they weregiving proper information in an
alternative language.
This isn't set up for expats andforeigners.
There's no need for this to be abilingual company.
Aimee (05:16):
No, and I will say quality control, if someone is
yammering at you in a languageyou don't understand fully, is
uh, going to never get highmarks.
Rebecca (05:25):
I, well, I'm not sure if you mean if they're speaking
English or if I am
Aimee (05:28):
No, I mean, I mean in in terms of the quality of service
you will receive if they do not,if they refuse to service you in
English, the ability for you toget your needs met is
significantly lower and yourquality experience as their
customer will inevitably belower.
Rebecca (05:42):
Well, I luckily, that's not the experience I had today.
Aimee (05:45):
Thank goodness.
Rebecca (05:46):
I know because he, he was very understanding, first of
all.
He wasn't like, he wasn't likethe guy at the kiosk.
He was like, no, just, it wasjust a no.
The guy on the phone was like,um, you can speak in English and
I can answer in French.
And I was like, and that just,that also just calmed me down.
I was like, okay, I'm gonna tryin French.
And we ended up doing most ofthe thing in French and he did,
(06:06):
don't tell the free mobilepeople, but he did sneak in a
little bit of English and he wasso patient with me
Aimee (06:12):
Oh, nice.
Rebecca (06:12):
and he was like, you know, your bill's gonna show up
on the renewal date.
And I'm like, yes.
And that's five days after theVisa cut off by when I have to
get them this piece of paper,put me on hold for about five
minutes.
Came back and he said, youshould have in your system a
invoice on Friday.
And that's well ahead of thatcutoff date.
So I've got some time to stillplay.
So that's an example of.
(06:34):
The hoops that I'm having tojump through because of my
choices.
And then also today, you know, Ifinally, in the past episode we
said I'd finally applied for thehealth insurance
Aimee (06:43):
Right.
Rebecca (06:44):
twice'cause they didn't get my paperwork the first time.
And I'm putting that in quotes.
Um, but now I got a letter inthe mail.
So this is exciting'cause itmeans they got my paperwork.
This one has three check marks.
Um, because my, apparently myapplication, uh, it's
incomplete.
It's incomplete.
Aimee (07:02):
Oh.
Rebecca (07:02):
So I need to justify my residence in France.
And it says, and I'm translatingas I read this, if you are
living with a individual, likeRed Flag was like a roommate,
you need a photocopy of.
Their bills.
Oh yeah.
Of their utility bills and anattestation of living covering a
(07:23):
period of at least three monthswithout interruption.
In addition to that, and this isagain for the, for the French
health insurance and you guys, Ihave no problem with this.
I like that governments aregatekeeping social.
Um, Services.
that the, they have paid for.
So I have no problem with this,guys.
I'm just saying if you wanna geton this system, don't do it the
(07:45):
way I did.
So I have to do that.
And then to get my socialsecurity number, I need to add,
um, a copy of my birthcertificate that is, um,
authenticated.
I don't yet know.
Which version of authenticationthat will be, but I'll figure it
out.
But some version of Frenchnotarization and I need to give
them my bank details, which I'mpretty sure I already did, but I
(08:06):
have no proof of.
So yeah, so this is what I mean.
The fact that I don't haveutility bills in my name is
creating obstacles thatbasically, uh.
I don't know if I can overcomethem yet.
That's the answer.
I don't know every step that'sahead of me.
Aimee (08:23):
now you will be able to.
Have the proof of three monthsresidency with the Airbnb.
Right.
Can you reach out to your hostand get that presumably.
Rebecca (08:32):
Well, that depends entirely on the host.
So our first host, which we hadfor six months, um, it was
amazing.
He worked with us, we workedwith him.
It was so, so easy.
He would've given us anything weneeded.
Second host, didn't matterbecause it had nothing to do
with Visa.
So, I don't know.
This host, for some reason is a,is a nervous host.
She's working with a rentalcompany.
So my rental company is great,or property manager I guess, but
(08:54):
the actual landlord is a littlestingy with paperwork'cause we
tried to do some of this.
And the attestation she wrotedoesn't count because she wasn't
willing to share her lease.
And as I recall, the utilitybills are in her parents' name
or something.
Aimee (09:07):
Oh no.
Rebecca (09:08):
yeah.
So I could reach out to heragain, but I already know that
it was kind of a non-starter.
I already asked the lawyer who'shelping us with our visas, if it
would be worthwhile to reach outand try and improve that
attestation, but they, he saidthe, the French government has
already rejected that form.
So pursuing that wouldn't be,uh, it wouldn't go anywhere.
Aimee (09:29):
Right.
Rebecca (09:30):
So it might work for the cart vial, the health
insurance, since that's newhoops that I'm jumping through.
But since they're the samehoops, I mean, I honestly, I
don't know.
I don't know what I'm gonna do.
I only got that piece of mailtoday.
And folks, this is what it'slike to try and live in a
different country and I don'tregret it.
But like I said, my biggestpiece of advice would be come
here, do an Airbnb for three tosix months if you need to,
(09:51):
because you do need.
To show up with a steady addresstoo.
That was part of getting thefirst visa.
Do that as long as you have to,to get established and then as
quickly as you can, if you can'tdo it from your first address,
get on a proper lease.
Get those utility bills.
I.
Aimee (10:07):
This will vary country to country.
So in Spain, we did not have tohave three months proof for our
Visa to be approved.
We just needed an address and sowe planned on a, our Airbnb when
we arrived was six weeks, andour plan was arrive in Gerona,
spend those six weeks lookingfor a longer term rental.
If nothing was available then,you know, just do another Airbnb
(10:29):
and, and suck up that painfulcost.
Right?
Because we were arriving in themiddle of summer and we were
expecting it was gonna take awhile to actually find a place
to live based on what peoplewere saying.
I.
However, for, for the Visaprocess, we actually only
needed, you know, a, an addressin Spain where we were staying.
It was not for a specific time.
By the time we were actuallyable to submit our Visa
paperwork, which was actuallyabout 90 days after we arrived,
(10:51):
we did have a long-term lease,and with our Visa application
process, we did need to have.
Private insurance purchased a T,yeah, a telephone number.
We did need to have a Spanishtelephone number in order to get
a lot of other things in linethat were needed, and so we were
able to get a telephone numberdespite the fact that we did not
(11:14):
at that, oh wait, I think it wasthe telephone number was needed
to have the bank account, andthen the bank account is also
needed to have a telephonenumber, but.
were workarounds to where asexpats with a American passport,
we were able to get a bankaccount, even though we didn't
have a Spanish phone number yet,and or Shane was able to get a
(11:35):
Spanish phone number before wegot the bank account.
One of those, we were able to doa workaround that allowed us to,
to break in, so you just have tokeep asking the question.
How do I make this work?
How do I make this work?
With everybody with in expatgroups, with officials, like
because somebody somewhere hasfigured it out, because people
are doing it and it's happening.
(11:56):
So when you get into thoseimpossible situations where
it's, well, you need this inorder to have that, but you need
that in order to get this,because that seems to be a
common thing here in Europe andwhen you're trying to obtain a
visa, just keep asking andsomebody will have figured it
out.
Also, as the world continues tohave such fluid migration or HA
(12:16):
has to cope with the fluidity ofmigration that has been
happening the last five to 10years, these things are being
figured out because hundreds ofthousands of people have done it
before you.
So the answer is there, you justhave to do some digging around.
And as far as you know, howaccessible this will be in the
future as.
All countries seem to berestricting border flow.
(12:37):
A little bit more remains to beseen, but it has been figured
out and I suspect those pathwayswill remain open regardless of
whether or not it's easier orless easy to cross borders in
the future.
Rebecca (12:47):
I agree with all of that.
You know, I, I wanna speakdirectly to the people listening
who are like me, who have spenttheir life achieving by being
planners and being able to seethe whole path.
You can't do that in thisadventure.
You are lucky if you can see oneto two steps ahead of you and
you just have to go on faiththat there are steps after that
(13:08):
and you have to be able to letgo of the idea that you can
control the outcome.
There is a possible outcomewhere I don't have a visa
renewed, and then I figure thatstep out.
There's no, point.
I'm not saying I don't worryabout it, but there's no point
in me worrying about it becausethat step may or may not ever
need to be addressed.
So, you know, milestone in.
Aimee (13:30):
there's no reason to borrow anxiety without proof
that it's real.
That's just a setup forsleepless nights and not
enjoying your life wherever youhappen to be in that moment.
Rebecca (13:41):
Yeah.
Which I would say takes me to mynext biggest takeaway, which
was, and it goes back to mypersonality again too.
I was not.
Realistic with what the firstyear would feel like.
You know, I was in a positionwith my husband going to school.
He, he just had to go to schooland have a visa.
It was fairly straightforward.
I took a business apart andneeded to build a new business
(14:05):
while learning a language, whilenavigating, getting and renewing
visas and establishing a life ina new community.
And.
In retrospect, even thoughbecause of the choices I made,
there wasn't really another pathI, I chose to do this.
I was not gonna do this.
And that means I have to figureout my new income.
(14:25):
I, in retrospect, I need to giveit two to three times more time
than to get to the place in mybusiness where I want it to be.
Then I would have if I were backat home doing exactly the same
work because there simply isless time and energy available
to me for building my businessbecause it's all being sucked up
(14:46):
by learning a language andnavigating a bureaucracy.
I don't know how to navigate, soI'm not.
Aimee (14:50):
a really important point.
Yeah, I think that's a, I thinkthat's a really important point
because we don't, you know, evenif you're not continuing an
existing business or starting anew business abroad, even if
you're, you know, workingremotely for a company that you
are familiar with, the amount ofenergy and exhaustion with
(15:10):
integration, particularly thatfirst year.
Cannot be underestimated.
And the impact that that has inyour ability to show up in other
ways of your life also cannot beunderestimated.
It is.
It's kind of like when you havea baby, you know, you know,
becoming a parent's gonna beintense, you know that you're
gonna have sleepless nights.
You know that, you know,everybody says teething is a
bitch and then you know, ithappens and you're like, oh my
(15:33):
God, because.
There are experiences in theworld which words cannot
adequately convey, and this isone of those experiences.
Rebecca (15:43):
And every day for me feels like I ran a marathon and,
and you didn't.
And so you're like, why am I sotired?
But in fact, every day is amental marathon, and I've been
doing that for a year now.
Aimee (15:58):
Has it gotten easier for you?
Yet, kind of at this one yearmark, if you think of where you
were last March.
Rebecca (16:07):
I'm gonna have to go with yes and no.
So I would say I had the peak ofthat feeling of it being easier
at about nine months in goinginto Visa renewal has really
reset a lot of the feelings ofheavy lifting, and I didn't, I.
I didn't realize that that wasgoing to be a challenge.
I really thought renewing thevisa would be, you phone this in
and you're done.
(16:28):
So right now I'm feeling prettyfrustrated, but then I have
something like a forced tortureof a French phone call, but I
manage it and I feel reallyproud of that.
So.
Do, do I feel better?
It's, it's hard to answer.
All I can answer is I still haveno regrets about doing this.
(16:53):
I would, in retrospect, makesome slightly different
decisions, but I will go back towhat we've always said in this
podcast, which is, I reallywouldn't, what I'm really trying
to do is help other people havea slightly easier path.
I wouldn't make differentdecisions because I am actually
happy with what we'veexperienced and where we are and
different decisions would've ledto a different outcome.
(17:14):
That I don't know.
Aimee (17:15):
Yeah.
That makes total sense.
Rebecca (17:19):
But mean those, okay, so those are my big things,
right?
Uh, how would I have navigatedthe visa differently?
Um, I'm really glad I'm nottrying to set up a business in
France.
I would heavily caution peopleagainst that idea, unless, you
know you're going to get set uphere.
I don't need me, I'm not gonnago into the details of it, but
if you are thinking of that,stop and ask so many questions.
Aimee (17:43):
Sleep on it for a year.
Rebecca (17:45):
Exactly.
Yeah.
It, it is, one of the thingsabout America is it seems to be
truer in America.
And when I say that, I mean theUnited States, um, truer in the
United States than anywhere elseon Earth that's starting a
business and operating abusiness is easier in the United
States of America than any placeelse I've encountered.
Aimee (18:06):
Yeah, I mean, that's.
That seems to be the case herein Spain as well,
Rebecca (18:10):
Yeah.
Aimee (18:11):
and a lot cheaper in the us.
Rebecca (18:13):
Yes.
Yeah.
It's set up to promoteenterprise, and you don't really
recognize what that means untilyou're in a place where it's
not.
Um, okay, so highlights.
The highlights are exactly whatI expected them to be.
The cheese is better than sex,which is a pretty high amount of
praise, but the cheese is thatgood here, the wine.
(18:34):
I still think Italy's is better,but it's free flowing and that's
quite lovely.
The dinners are relaxed, thepace of life is relaxed, the
food ingredients are off thecharts.
Sitting at a cafe at Twilight isevery bit is filled with Disney
Magic as they promised.
It is La Von Rose here.
(18:54):
I did not expect to enjoy livingin Paris as much as I do and I
love it
Aimee (19:02):
Awesome.
Rebecca (19:04):
and bringing the cat was brilliant.
Very glad I did that.
Traveling with a cat is much,much trickier, and that's mostly
because of lodgings, and infact, getting lodgings in
general is harder with a cat, sothat's another thing for people
to think about.
To me, again, no regrets.
A thousand percent worth it, butsurprisingly hard.
Aimee (19:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Are there any lessons thatyou've had that you weren't
expecting?
Rebecca (19:37):
It is sort of like, like what you're just saying
about the baby
Aimee (19:40):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (19:40):
lessons.
Weren't in, in and of themselvesweren't surprising, but the
amount at which it peels yoursoul raw and exposes it to the
elements was surprising.
I mean, we've had so manypodcast episodes where we're
talking about me overachieving,or trying to control and, and
exploring how not to do thosethings.
(20:01):
I didn't, I don't think I.
Expected that it would be suchan emotional bootcamp, but I am
grateful for it because it'sexactly what my personality
needed.
It's sort of like being forcedto make that phone call today.
I mean, I guess most of ushumans don't seek out hardship,
but hardship is how we learn andgrow and become stronger.
(20:25):
So I think if I'd known, like ifyou'd known what having a baby
was really like, some days you'dun choose it.
If I'd known how much it wouldtest me to let go of control and
outcome as much as I have to inorder to do this thing I wanna
do, I'm not sure I would had thecourage to do it.
So I'm glad I didn't know.
Aimee (20:45):
Yeah.
When you think about yourrelationship with work and where
you were a year ago, where youwere effectively in Paris, but
locked in your apartment,working on a program that you
were launching and not gettingout right, and really pushing
that hustle.
(21:05):
And then I'm thinking of May or,and our trip to, and you were,
you were gonna do a call withyour initial cohort on that
trip.
So if you put yourself back inthose shoes and you see where
you are now, the changes thatyou've made with your.
Identify your selfidentification, your self worth
(21:28):
around work and performance.
Rebecca (21:33):
That's a really interesting question.
It hasn't, it hasn't changed.
I, I don't know if it's me or myPuritan upbringing or the US
work ethic or what it is.
I.
I identify deeply with my work,but I think it's part because I
love my work, right?
So it's hard for me to detanglethat.
It's, what's been interesting isactually much more the practical
side of it, part of why it'staking me longer to build what
(21:55):
I'm trying to build.
I, I built those courses.
I've got two very big programsthat I both built and recorded
and teach live.
And I'm not gonna go into the.
Gymnastics of that.
But the point of that is thepoint, I have to experiment more
to figure out the answersbecause I thought that a more
passive income system byteaching classes would work
(22:17):
better.
So I could have classes that Icould.
Teach passively and I couldschedule out a class and say,
I'm gonna teach this class inthe spring and fall.
I'm gonna teach this one in thesummer and winter.
I'll plan my traveling aroundthat and whatever.
I was like, this sounds onpaper, this, this definitely
works.
It's not working the way Iwanted one, because the world is
very saturated with self-studycourses and everybody is
(22:37):
realizing that nobody everfinishes them.
Aimee (22:40):
Yeah.
Rebecca (22:40):
So the recorded courses are actually harder for me to
sell because I'm not convincedpeople will spend the money and
then do the course and then thatjust doesn't serve anybody.
And then the timed courses like,okay, I'll, I'll do this one in
April.
Because of the lifestyle I'vechosen and because of the
husband part of this, you know,his school changes quarter to
quarter and I don't know whatthe quarter will look like.
(23:02):
Until about a week before thequarter starts,
Aimee (23:04):
Right.
Rebecca (23:05):
then my dear husband decided to, you know, rip his
shoulder apart.
So now he's got a six monthbreak where he's gonna be having
the post-surgery.
So he would be sitting aroundfor six weeks and any wife out
there knows what that can belike in terms of distraction.
So I thought scheduling classesand having passive classes was
going to be this great solution.
(23:25):
Currently it is not.
So here I am again having torejigger how do I deliver my
services?
How do I make it easy to buyfrom me, given the limitations,
from time differences, fromneeding access to wifi, from all
of it.
I will not pretend to havefigured out this puzzle yet.
But the takeaway I would giveout there is if you are running
(23:46):
a business, or even like yousaid, working for a company
remotely, it's not going to beas simple as, oh, I'll just get
on Zoom and show up.
It's, it should be, but it'snot.
Aimee (23:59):
Yeah, anybody who works with international teams.
Or it already has the livedexperience of like having to get
up at 2:00 AM or 4:00 AM for,you know, a meeting that is in
India or Europe or, or what haveyou, and you just have to show
up, right?
Like it's, it's amazing how muchwe as Americans are willing to
do for work that is not typical,most other places.
(24:22):
Uh, do you feel that your, Imean, I hear the work ethic is
still there, the logistics arechanging.
Do you still feel that yourpattern is the same as it was
when you were in the States withregards to the hours and the
pressure that you put onyourself?
Because I know one of the thingsthat you wanted to do with
moving to Paris was to kind ofhave more life and less hustle.
Rebecca (24:47):
I really want to answer that.
I've gotten better in thatregard, if I'm being honest with
you, I don't think I have.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it, and it's in partbecause there's been such a
dramatic shift.
You know, I was running a fiveperson firm bringing in the
hundreds and hundreds ofthousands of dollars in revenue,
and I became a one person firmoffering completely different
(25:09):
services, and, and I have tofigure out how to sell and
deliver them.
So the, the income just isn't.
I'll put it this way, the incomedoesn't align with the bills
yet, and so it just adds thislevel of pressure, like I want
this lifestyle, but until I getthe machine going to the place
where it needs to get to, and Iknow I will, but typically with
(25:30):
my skillset, that machine wouldbe going by now.
But because I'm doing it inFrance, it's not where it would
be if I hadn't.
Moved.
Aimee (25:39):
Right, right.
Rebecca (25:41):
I think we were in America, if we were in the
United States and I wasanswering this, I would be like,
yeah, this is actually reallygreat because everything's in
motion and now when I'm off Idon't have to think about work.
But the thing about starting abusinesses, when you are in the
early days, you can, there isn'treally the luxury of an off
(26:01):
switch.
Aimee (26:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can't really clock outbecause your brain is always.
There.
Rebecca (26:05):
a bike isn't gonna move forward if you don't pedal it.
Aimee (26:08):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (26:09):
Now, once you're going there is momentum, you can
coast, you know?
Yeah, you might have to puddleup this hill, but then you can
skate down that hill.
That's just simply not the partof business that I'm in yet, and
I knew I was taking that on.
I didn't know I was taking it onfor the length of time I was
going to be taking it on for.
Because while I used to stretchmyself too thin by taking on too
many work things at one time,now I've actually, and I should
(26:32):
give myself credit for this, Ihave reigned in the number of
things I'm trying to do.
I'm very focused with my worknow, but I'm still stretched
thin because so much energy hasto go into the language and the
lifestyle and bureaucracy.
So I think it.
If we can take those two thingsapart, yes, I have grown and I
am able to compartmentalize andsay things are working.
(26:56):
It's fine.
But when things aren't going asfast as you want them to go, and
that affects the bills you needto pay and the retirement you
need to save for, and insteadyou're living on savings longer
than you may have planned for,it causes a new level of stress.
So it's sort, it's like stressreplacement therapy.
Aimee (27:15):
Objectively, like from the outside, you appear less
unilaterally focused on yourcareer.
You seem to have.
Other things going on more oftenthan I believe you two have had
when you were in the States.
Rebecca (27:36):
I
Aimee (27:37):
I also, from my perspective, you also seem to be
more relaxed about all of it.
Rebecca (27:42):
I'm really glad to hear that I do get that feedback.
Um.
When I get on Zoom with my momor just with anybody, they
almost always say, wow, you lookgreat.
And it's not like a style thing.
They're they, they're saying,you look healthy, you look not
so haggard, you, you look lesspale.
So I definitely know that thisis a healthier lifestyle for me,
(28:05):
um, which was one of the bigthings I wanted.
I just dunno if I can givemyself credit for that or if
it's just literally.
Better food, better, betterlifestyle.
It it's like, I don't know ifevery day you eat a sandwich
full of arsenic, and then theonly change you make is you eat
a sandwich not filled witharsenic, you're still just
(28:27):
eating a sandwich.
And yet you're healthier.
That's more how this feels tome.
It's like I allowed myself to gointo a healthier environment and
so even without being great atimproving my other habits, I am
in a healthier, better place.
Does that make sense?
Aimee (28:46):
It does make sense, but for those who are on the other
side of the pond and don't knowexactly what.
It means beyond sort of like avague conceptual fantasy of
Europe.
Rebecca (28:58):
Okay, here's a specific example.
I don't tend to eat at my deskanymore.
Aimee (29:04):
Okay.
That's freaking huge.
I still eat at my desk.
Rebecca (29:07):
I don't tend to, I still do sometimes, but meals in
France are not eaten, walkingaround, and they're not eaten
mindlessly.
You sit and you appreciate, I.
The thing that's gettingshoveled into your face.
So that's a huge change becauseI'm eating more mindfully, which
does slow you down, which meansI'm digesting better, which
means my entire body is workingbetter.
(29:27):
Um, and I do see the results ofthat in how I feel.
So I guess it, it feels like acheat code sort of to move.
But you know what's interestingabout this, the thing that I
keep thinking in the last coupleminutes is about the book I
wrote.
It's called Happy Starts atHome.
It's on design psychology, andit was sparked by getting
divorced and living in a housethat had all the memories and
ghosts of my past marriage.
(29:47):
And I was miserable.
And so I took charge of that.
I said, I'm not gonna live likethis.
I'm not gonna live surrounded bythings like this.
And I changed it and changing myenvironment, changed my
wellbeing, and I wrote an entirebook about it.
And I guess I feel like maybethis is just 2.0 of that.
I knew I needed a differentlifestyle in order to.
(30:09):
Be be the kind of healthy Iwanted to be.
And you and I have talked aboutthis, Aimee, you went back to
Alaska and you weren't walkingeverywhere, for example.
It's hard to live a healthylifestyle in the United States,
and so.
The reason I was excited to dothis was not just to support my
husband.
He was the excuse I wanted tochange my environment this
(30:30):
drastically because I hoped thatchanging my environment would
change my health, and it hasdone that.
I.
Aimee (30:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
Instead of just grabbingsomething, sitting at your desk
and eating it while you'reworking, you are taking a 5, 10,
15, 20 minute break.
You're sitting at a table,you're eating that meal
mindfully.
Instead of getting in your carto go get groceries or run
errands, you are now doing thaton foot it.
Rebecca (30:53):
Yes, absolutely.
Aimee (30:55):
Mm-hmm.
Because
Rebecca (30:56):
much walking.
I mean, every day is at minimuma three mile walk, and that
doesn't count.
The shopping time, that's atminimum.
Aimee (31:03):
Yep.
And so the three, three milesis, is roughly what?
Seven 8,000 steps?
Yeah.
Rebecca (31:08):
I believe you.
I don't have a step counter, butI'm also getting fresh air and
vitamin D at the same time.
This was something I was gettingvery little of in Seattle,
Aimee (31:16):
Yep.
Rebecca (31:17):
so that's, that's huge.
Um, meals themselves, the actualmeals tend to be long and
social.
That's huge for our wellbeing.
I don't even like humans and Istill know it's good for me.
Aimee (31:28):
Who are you dining with, now that you like, how, how
often are you dining with othersnow versus in the states?
Rebecca (31:36):
Well, it's very different kinds of dinings in
the states.
We used to host a lot of partiesat the house and people would
come to us and we'd havepotlucks, Friendsgiving, and all
kinds of like movie nights.
And I.
Aimee (31:45):
Like once a month or something.
Rebecca (31:47):
Yeah, I really, really miss that.
That's not something that I cando here in my lifestyle, but
it's been replaced with,literally going to restaurants
with Damien's school friendsand, you know, having an actual
meal bistro.
having his school friends overto practice cooking, which is a
very specific lifestyle momentbecause, you know, he is been in
school.
And then also my own personalnetworking of, Hey, I'm trying
(32:09):
to make friends.
You tend to go do that meetingup at a random cafe.
So it's very different from thesocializing that we did in the
United States, but it fills thesame social need,
Aimee (32:22):
Right, right.
Rebecca (32:23):
it feel the same costume need.
Really think France is lackingin the costume party department.
Aimee (32:28):
Well, so is your closet space, I mean the, the, that's a
huge limitation that you have towork around.
Rebecca (32:33):
Although that's another thing that I would love to
share, is I love living thislightly.
Forcing ourselves to move threeto every three to six months has
encouraged us to, I.
Keep getting rid of things and Ilove that.
So it's, everything's two sidesof a coin.
And you are going to sacrificesome things.
(32:54):
You're gonna sacrifice, in ourcase, convenience, that's gone.
There's none of that.
Um, that kind of socializingthat where I bring people in and
have a big party in my ownspace, that's something that
currently I have sacrificed.
So it's all about the.
The trade off, what do you getin return?
And for me Right.
now, this is worth it.
But Damien and I talk all thetime about, will we wonder where
(33:14):
this is leading?
You know, will we own a propertyagain?
Probably just given who we are?
Where will it be?
But when we do, we know that wewant it to be located in a place
where people can get to itbecause it needs to be social,
and we need it to be set up in away where we aren't afraid to
use it that way.
So we've learned a lot aboutourselves and our, I guess it's
(33:35):
like lifestyle again, lifestyleneeds that can sound kind of
silly, like.
Um, I need a dining room withsomething I didn't really know
before.
Moving here and living for ayear without a dining room.
It's not that I need a diningroom.
There's different ways to solvefor this, but I need a space
where I can gather eight to 20people, not be worried about
pissing off the neighbors and beable to.
(33:58):
Um, and for Damien to be able tocook for those people, like
these are things we'rediscovering are important.
Basically values, we're reallytalking about family values.
Aimee (34:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that, yeah, I think that isone thing that, that we do end
up learning, doing this is itreally highlights like some of
the things that are reallyimportant that you didn't
realize were important becausethey were always there and now
they're not, or they're harder.
And other things that you didn'trealize maybe you could have in
your life because it was neverpresented to you.
(34:27):
And here in Europe, it's just agiven.
It's just a given that if youstumble, if you fall.
If your child stumbles andfalls, if something happens that
people are going to rush towardyou to help you not stand back,
whip out their phones andvideotape your agony, um, gosh,
I sound super bitter when I say
Rebecca (34:47):
Well, but it's, but that's coming from so many
layers.
Just one for example, becauseit's not like Americans are just
bad people.
Right.
Aimee (34:53):
Yeah.
Rebecca (34:54):
We're all, we are all the same when we're born, so
we're obviously taughtsomething.
For example, in the UnitedStates, you can be sued for
anything, and so gettinginvolved assumes a level of risk
that you really have to.
Contemplate in the split secondwhen you're faced with a moment
of decision.
It's just one thing influencingthe fact that everybody's
(35:16):
standing around with theirphones, which is atrocious.
I'm not saying that's okay,
Aimee (35:19):
But that's how we got
Rebecca (35:20):
comes to be is a lot of history.
Aimee (35:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's how we got there was, youknow, 30, 30 to 50 years of
heavy, well, probably just 30.
'cause when I was a kid, weweren't that scared of other
people.
So sometime in the last 30years.
Is where the litigious naturereally kicked its heels up, and
now we just look at everybody asa risk.
Rebecca (35:42):
And that's really sad,
Aimee (35:44):
It's tragic
Rebecca (35:45):
but
Aimee (35:45):
and it's destroying the country.
Rebecca (35:47):
It is, but this is what travel does for us, is it
exposes us to the idea thatthere are alternatives when,
when you only ever see onething, it's a, it's a big
stretch to ask the humanimagination to come up with
something that you've never seenor experienced,
Aimee (36:01):
Yeah, and there's also just so much for those of us of
a certain age, so much that wehave forgotten, you know, Shane
and I were having a conversationabout this, a couple.
Weeks ago and then someonebrought it up just yest.
Oh, I was talking with a clientjust yesterday, uh, who brought
up just how much we have, howmuch the pandemic has changed
us, and our behaviors and ourbrains in a way that we've not
(36:24):
yet been able to recover fromand that we may not recover
from.
We may not re-remember how to.
Exist in the world in a way thatwe did before lockdown.
Rebecca (36:39):
I mean that makes sense.
Our experiences change usindividually and culturally.
Aimee (36:43):
Yeah.
But it was only, you know, inthe worst areas of the US it was
a year and a half, two years.
Rebecca (36:48):
Yeah, but I would never argue that the length of time
that something lasts equals theintensity of impact it can have
on you.
This could be very differentthings.
It was a huge turning point inso many ways.
It, for, for example, allows meto work remotely in a way that I
never would've gotten to,
Aimee (37:05):
Right.
Rebecca (37:06):
but.
It also allowed us to isolate ina way that was surprisingly
comfortable for a lot of us.
It's nice to not get out of yourpajamas.
It's nice to not go have to putup with the annoying habits of
other humans.
It's not healthy though, so itallowed us to isolate ourselves
and then develop a habit ofisolation, but that is just
(37:26):
reinforcing.
The fear that we have of eachother because we're always
afraid of things that we're notaround.
You know, Damien and I were justin Barcelona and we ended up
staying in a neighborhood wherethere's.
I don't know if this is all ofBarcelona, but I'm pretty sure
this was a very specificneighborhood where there was a
very large Muslim population intraditional Muslim dress.
Everything from um, normalstreet western clothes all the
(37:49):
way to burkas and everything inbetween men and women.
There were mostly men out.
And I imagine that's'cause intraditional society, the women
were doing their jobs at homewith the kids and stuff.
But it was really interesting'cause I'm not sure I've ever
walked around a neighborhoodthat had that much of a, a
density of population of Muslimpeople in Muslim garb.
Without a lot of other peoplearound as well, and it was, I
(38:10):
will not admit to beingcomfortable.
I was like, I am hyper aware ofbeing very white Right.
now, especially as a female.
My head uncovered, you know, andit was uncomfortable.
Was it unsafe?
I did not feel unsafe.
But your head sorts through allthe pieces of information that's
been fed from everywhere, mostlymedia of course, and you're
(38:31):
trying to parse out what's true,what's not true.
How do I behave in this moment?
You're trying to layer on actualproper cultural behavior.
Should I make eye contact withthat man who is clearly of a
different culture than me?
How do I engage?
So it's everything we've beenexperiencing in France,'cause
they don't respond to my smilehere as we know, but leveled up
(38:52):
from all of the fear that comesfrom A, the propaganda, and B,
the fact that this is not asituation I have been in before.
Aimee (39:00):
Right, the lack of familiarity.
Rebecca (39:01):
Yeah, we cannot allow ourselves to be isolated if we
have any hope of being acommunity at any level.
But it's uncomfortable.
It's not fun to put yourself inuncomfortable positions.
So what that tells me is I needto go to Morocco and I am gonna
plan a trip.
Aimee (39:18):
There we go.
Awesome.
Is there anything else that youhaven't mentioned that you feel
is a big realization or lessonor takeaway from the past year
in Paris?
I.
Rebecca (39:32):
I don't think so.
There's so many micro moments,and a lot of them would be
things like.
They're almost should'ves likeyou'll get further if you sign
up for French classes so thatyou have to go to those every
week, or you'll get further ifthis, that, or the other.
But the reality is this is anexperience that you have to let
unfold one pedal at a time.
(39:55):
There is no other way to do it.
That's the take.
There's no takeaway.
Just, just do it though.
If, if this is in your heart, itwill be hard and it will make
you a better person.
I don't know what version ofthat that's gonna mean for you.
Aimee (40:13):
Right.
Rebecca (40:14):
It'll be hard and it will make you a better person.
And whether you say after, likeafter nine months in the Peace
Corps, I realized it was not forme.
I was unhappy, I was unhealthy,I was 35 pounds heavier, and I.
went home and that was theRight.
decision.
And there's, there's no regrets.
So.
Try, try not to be attached tothe ending.
(40:34):
Attach yourself to the journeyonly, and it'll go pretty well.
Aimee (40:39):
Beautiful.
I can't think of anything to addto that.
Rebecca (40:43):
Well, I will ask our listeners to give us some
feedback if you've made it allthe way to the end of this
podcast.
Today, Aimee and I have beentalking about the length of our
podcasts.
We keep saying we're gonna limitthem to 20 to 30 minutes, and we
keep going to 45 minutes to anhour.
If you have an opinion about thelength of our podcast, please
reach out to us and tell us I amon Instagram at be seriously
happy and you can find Aimee at.
Aimee (41:03):
Vibrant nutrition.
Rebecca (41:04):
We love to hear from you guys.
Tell us your dreams, tell usyour hopes, tell us your fears.
We are happy to answer yourquestions.
Until next time folks.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person, brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time.
Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Aimee
and Rebecca, who each move fromthe United States to Europe to
become expats.
Aimee to Spain and Rebecca toFrance.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure.
Encourage you to follow yourown, move abroad dreams, and
remind you that you're not alonewhen the going gets tough.
Enjoy.
Aimee (00:24):
Bonjhola, Rebecca.
Rebecca (00:25):
Bonjhola Aimee.
Aimee (00:26):
You have reached the one year milestone of being an expat
we thought it would be fun foryou to kind of do a recap of
what have I learned in in thelast 12 months living outside
the US
Rebecca (00:41):
And the one year milestone is a very big deal
because of the visa renewalaspect.
So it's a milestone in a lot ofemotional ways, but there's also
some extremely unpleasantbureaucratic lifting I'm facing
at this one year mark thatpeople should know about.
Aimee (00:55):
yeah.
And I've not had that experiencebecause our visa, the digital
nomad visa, because we submittedit from within the country, our
first round is three years.
Rebecca (01:06):
I am so jealous of you for that right now.
And I will say one of the thingsthat has been most surprising to
me about doing Bonjhola andhaving these parallel
experiences is how I.
Much the same they are, but
Aimee (01:18):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (01:19):
many ways in which they vary has been really surprising
to me.
So I thought I would start withmy number one piece of advice
for anybody who wants to move toFrance, and that is choose one
place to live and go through theeffort of getting a proper
lease.
It is hard to get an apartmentas a foreigner in France.
(01:39):
Nonetheless, you need to do itnow.
It would've worked for us to doan Airbnb for three or six
months and then move into asolid lease, and that would
probably be the way I'd do it ifI were giving some advice,
because being here on theground.
You can maybe work with anagent, maybe see the places,
'cause things move so quickly.
Aimee (01:56):
Right.
Rebecca (01:57):
You know, people make decisions about apartments
without enough information.
Like there's a whole lot ofreasons we didn't go down that
path.
But the problem is that.
The Visa people want you to showthat you've got stability in the
country, And Airbnb not onlydoesn't kinda show that, but
they're just not used to lookingat that as a legit lodging.
(02:18):
So it's just created a.
Problems for, we don't haveutility bills in our names.
We don't have a lease in ourname.
We don't have those pieces ofessential paper that
bureaucratic countries, which isall of them if we're being
honest with ourselves.
Want
Aimee (02:33):
And what are you specifically butting up against?
Not having that firmdocumentation in Paris.
Rebecca (02:38):
before example?
All right, so right now I'mworking on the visa, and so
since I.
Don't have utilities in my name.
I needed to go get a mobileaccount, a a phone mobile
account in my name.
I never wanted to do thatbecause I've got this fancy
pants.
Verizon plan cost me a ton ofmoney because it's my business
line.
So I was like, I'm not gonnadouble up.
Big mistake.
(02:59):
So if you do follow in myfootsteps, get a mobile plan.
You need some piece of paperwith your name and your
corresponding address on it.
So I'm finding that with theVisa and I got the mobile
account, but I got it too late.
So today I had to call.
I had to call people in French.
Aimee (03:16):
Oh, it's the worst.
Rebecca (03:18):
was, so I went to free mobile, which is the one I'm
using.
I.
In person and in my French, Isaid, can you please, please,
please help me.
I need an attestation or a billwith my name and address.
And I said, Nope.
We cannot help you with that inperson.
You can call this number.
I knew that, but I don't want tomake a French phone call.
Aimee (03:36):
For those of you who have not had the experience of trying
to navigate a telephone call ina language which.
You are not skilled in.
It is a unique form of hell andit really highlights how much we
use our sight to yeah, to tonavigate conversation, to get
tone, to get inflection, likevisual cues.
Cues.
(03:57):
As well as, I think to someextent, we all read lips if we
are struggling to understandwhat someone is saying, and we
just do it automatically, and sodon't realize how much we do it
until you're navigating alanguage that is.
Rebecca (04:12):
Not
Aimee (04:12):
Not your primary language over a telephone, which despite
technology is still not as clearas standing across from
somebody.
Rebecca (04:19):
That's actually a really important aspect to this.
'cause when you and I wereyoungsters, ma Bell, you know,
the sprint, you could hear a pindrop.
They don't care about audioquality anymore.
So yeah, that does level it up.
So, and I'd already tried, youknow, I'm not a complete.
So I had tried, but I couldn'teffectively navigate the phone
tree.
I couldn't even give to a personbecause of the French.
(04:40):
So I'd given up kind of easily.
I admit that I went to freemobile.
Can you help me?
No, you can call this number.
So I said, okay, fine.
So I called the number and I Isaid, in French ur, is there
anybody who speaks English andcan help me?
And he says, in French.
Yes, but we're not allowed tohelp you in English.
(05:01):
And I, I'm guessing, and I haveno idea why.
I'm guessing it's because theywouldn't be able to really
quality control that could.
They make sure that they weregiving proper information in an
alternative language.
This isn't set up for expats andforeigners.
There's no need for this to be abilingual company.
Aimee (05:16):
No, and I will say quality control, if someone is
yammering at you in a languageyou don't understand fully, is
uh, going to never get highmarks.
Rebecca (05:25):
I, well, I'm not sure if you mean if they're speaking
English or if I am
Aimee (05:28):
No, I mean, I mean in in terms of the quality of service
you will receive if they do not,if they refuse to service you in
English, the ability for you toget your needs met is
significantly lower and yourquality experience as their
customer will inevitably belower.
Rebecca (05:42):
Well, I luckily, that's not the experience I had today.
Aimee (05:45):
Thank goodness.
Rebecca (05:46):
I know because he, he was very understanding, first of
all.
He wasn't like, he wasn't likethe guy at the kiosk.
He was like, no, just, it wasjust a no.
The guy on the phone was like,um, you can speak in English and
I can answer in French.
And I was like, and that just,that also just calmed me down.
I was like, okay, I'm gonna tryin French.
And we ended up doing most ofthe thing in French and he did,
(06:06):
don't tell the free mobilepeople, but he did sneak in a
little bit of English and he wasso patient with me
Aimee (06:12):
Oh, nice.
Rebecca (06:12):
and he was like, you know, your bill's gonna show up
on the renewal date.
And I'm like, yes.
And that's five days after theVisa cut off by when I have to
get them this piece of paper,put me on hold for about five
minutes.
Came back and he said, youshould have in your system a
invoice on Friday.
And that's well ahead of thatcutoff date.
So I've got some time to stillplay.
So that's an example of.
(06:34):
The hoops that I'm having tojump through because of my
choices.
And then also today, you know, Ifinally, in the past episode we
said I'd finally applied for thehealth insurance
Aimee (06:43):
Right.
Rebecca (06:44):
twice'cause they didn't get my paperwork the first time.
And I'm putting that in quotes.
Um, but now I got a letter inthe mail.
So this is exciting'cause itmeans they got my paperwork.
This one has three check marks.
Um, because my, apparently myapplication, uh, it's
incomplete.
It's incomplete.
Aimee (07:02):
Oh.
Rebecca (07:02):
So I need to justify my residence in France.
And it says, and I'm translatingas I read this, if you are
living with a individual, likeRed Flag was like a roommate,
you need a photocopy of.
Their bills.
Oh yeah.
Of their utility bills and anattestation of living covering a
(07:23):
period of at least three monthswithout interruption.
In addition to that, and this isagain for the, for the French
health insurance and you guys, Ihave no problem with this.
I like that governments aregatekeeping social.
Um, Services.
that the, they have paid for.
So I have no problem with this,guys.
I'm just saying if you wanna geton this system, don't do it the
(07:45):
way I did.
So I have to do that.
And then to get my socialsecurity number, I need to add,
um, a copy of my birthcertificate that is, um,
authenticated.
I don't yet know.
Which version of authenticationthat will be, but I'll figure it
out.
But some version of Frenchnotarization and I need to give
them my bank details, which I'mpretty sure I already did, but I
(08:06):
have no proof of.
So yeah, so this is what I mean.
The fact that I don't haveutility bills in my name is
creating obstacles thatbasically, uh.
I don't know if I can overcomethem yet.
That's the answer.
I don't know every step that'sahead of me.
Aimee (08:23):
now you will be able to.
Have the proof of three monthsresidency with the Airbnb.
Right.
Can you reach out to your hostand get that presumably.
Rebecca (08:32):
Well, that depends entirely on the host.
So our first host, which we hadfor six months, um, it was
amazing.
He worked with us, we workedwith him.
It was so, so easy.
He would've given us anything weneeded.
Second host, didn't matterbecause it had nothing to do
with Visa.
So, I don't know.
This host, for some reason is a,is a nervous host.
She's working with a rentalcompany.
So my rental company is great,or property manager I guess, but
(08:54):
the actual landlord is a littlestingy with paperwork'cause we
tried to do some of this.
And the attestation she wrotedoesn't count because she wasn't
willing to share her lease.
And as I recall, the utilitybills are in her parents' name
or something.
Aimee (09:07):
Oh no.
Rebecca (09:08):
yeah.
So I could reach out to heragain, but I already know that
it was kind of a non-starter.
I already asked the lawyer who'shelping us with our visas, if it
would be worthwhile to reach outand try and improve that
attestation, but they, he saidthe, the French government has
already rejected that form.
So pursuing that wouldn't be,uh, it wouldn't go anywhere.
Aimee (09:29):
Right.
Rebecca (09:30):
So it might work for the cart vial, the health
insurance, since that's newhoops that I'm jumping through.
But since they're the samehoops, I mean, I honestly, I
don't know.
I don't know what I'm gonna do.
I only got that piece of mailtoday.
And folks, this is what it'slike to try and live in a
different country and I don'tregret it.
But like I said, my biggestpiece of advice would be come
here, do an Airbnb for three tosix months if you need to,
(09:51):
because you do need.
To show up with a steady addresstoo.
That was part of getting thefirst visa.
Do that as long as you have to,to get established and then as
quickly as you can, if you can'tdo it from your first address,
get on a proper lease.
Get those utility bills.
I.
Aimee (10:07):
This will vary country to country.
So in Spain, we did not have tohave three months proof for our
Visa to be approved.
We just needed an address and sowe planned on a, our Airbnb when
we arrived was six weeks, andour plan was arrive in Gerona,
spend those six weeks lookingfor a longer term rental.
If nothing was available then,you know, just do another Airbnb
(10:29):
and, and suck up that painfulcost.
Right?
Because we were arriving in themiddle of summer and we were
expecting it was gonna take awhile to actually find a place
to live based on what peoplewere saying.
I.
However, for, for the Visaprocess, we actually only
needed, you know, a, an addressin Spain where we were staying.
It was not for a specific time.
By the time we were actuallyable to submit our Visa
paperwork, which was actuallyabout 90 days after we arrived,
(10:51):
we did have a long-term lease,and with our Visa application
process, we did need to have.
Private insurance purchased a T,yeah, a telephone number.
We did need to have a Spanishtelephone number in order to get
a lot of other things in linethat were needed, and so we were
able to get a telephone numberdespite the fact that we did not
(11:14):
at that, oh wait, I think it wasthe telephone number was needed
to have the bank account, andthen the bank account is also
needed to have a telephonenumber, but.
were workarounds to where asexpats with a American passport,
we were able to get a bankaccount, even though we didn't
have a Spanish phone number yet,and or Shane was able to get a
(11:35):
Spanish phone number before wegot the bank account.
One of those, we were able to doa workaround that allowed us to,
to break in, so you just have tokeep asking the question.
How do I make this work?
How do I make this work?
With everybody with in expatgroups, with officials, like
because somebody somewhere hasfigured it out, because people
are doing it and it's happening.
(11:56):
So when you get into thoseimpossible situations where
it's, well, you need this inorder to have that, but you need
that in order to get this,because that seems to be a
common thing here in Europe andwhen you're trying to obtain a
visa, just keep asking andsomebody will have figured it
out.
Also, as the world continues tohave such fluid migration or HA
(12:16):
has to cope with the fluidity ofmigration that has been
happening the last five to 10years, these things are being
figured out because hundreds ofthousands of people have done it
before you.
So the answer is there, you justhave to do some digging around.
And as far as you know, howaccessible this will be in the
future as.
All countries seem to berestricting border flow.
(12:37):
A little bit more remains to beseen, but it has been figured
out and I suspect those pathwayswill remain open regardless of
whether or not it's easier orless easy to cross borders in
the future.
Rebecca (12:47):
I agree with all of that.
You know, I, I wanna speakdirectly to the people listening
who are like me, who have spenttheir life achieving by being
planners and being able to seethe whole path.
You can't do that in thisadventure.
You are lucky if you can see oneto two steps ahead of you and
you just have to go on faiththat there are steps after that
(13:08):
and you have to be able to letgo of the idea that you can
control the outcome.
There is a possible outcomewhere I don't have a visa
renewed, and then I figure thatstep out.
There's no, point.
I'm not saying I don't worryabout it, but there's no point
in me worrying about it becausethat step may or may not ever
need to be addressed.
So, you know, milestone in.
Aimee (13:30):
there's no reason to borrow anxiety without proof
that it's real.
That's just a setup forsleepless nights and not
enjoying your life wherever youhappen to be in that moment.
Rebecca (13:41):
Yeah.
Which I would say takes me to mynext biggest takeaway, which
was, and it goes back to mypersonality again too.
I was not.
Realistic with what the firstyear would feel like.
You know, I was in a positionwith my husband going to school.
He, he just had to go to schooland have a visa.
It was fairly straightforward.
I took a business apart andneeded to build a new business
(14:05):
while learning a language, whilenavigating, getting and renewing
visas and establishing a life ina new community.
And.
In retrospect, even thoughbecause of the choices I made,
there wasn't really another pathI, I chose to do this.
I was not gonna do this.
And that means I have to figureout my new income.
(14:25):
I, in retrospect, I need to giveit two to three times more time
than to get to the place in mybusiness where I want it to be.
Then I would have if I were backat home doing exactly the same
work because there simply isless time and energy available
to me for building my businessbecause it's all being sucked up
(14:46):
by learning a language andnavigating a bureaucracy.
I don't know how to navigate, soI'm not.
Aimee (14:50):
a really important point.
Yeah, I think that's a, I thinkthat's a really important point
because we don't, you know, evenif you're not continuing an
existing business or starting anew business abroad, even if
you're, you know, workingremotely for a company that you
are familiar with, the amount ofenergy and exhaustion with
(15:10):
integration, particularly thatfirst year.
Cannot be underestimated.
And the impact that that has inyour ability to show up in other
ways of your life also cannot beunderestimated.
It is.
It's kind of like when you havea baby, you know, you know,
becoming a parent's gonna beintense, you know that you're
gonna have sleepless nights.
You know that, you know,everybody says teething is a
bitch and then you know, ithappens and you're like, oh my
(15:33):
God, because.
There are experiences in theworld which words cannot
adequately convey, and this isone of those experiences.
Rebecca (15:43):
And every day for me feels like I ran a marathon and,
and you didn't.
And so you're like, why am I sotired?
But in fact, every day is amental marathon, and I've been
doing that for a year now.
Aimee (15:58):
Has it gotten easier for you?
Yet, kind of at this one yearmark, if you think of where you
were last March.
Rebecca (16:07):
I'm gonna have to go with yes and no.
So I would say I had the peak ofthat feeling of it being easier
at about nine months in goinginto Visa renewal has really
reset a lot of the feelings ofheavy lifting, and I didn't, I.
I didn't realize that that wasgoing to be a challenge.
I really thought renewing thevisa would be, you phone this in
and you're done.
(16:28):
So right now I'm feeling prettyfrustrated, but then I have
something like a forced tortureof a French phone call, but I
manage it and I feel reallyproud of that.
So.
Do, do I feel better?
It's, it's hard to answer.
All I can answer is I still haveno regrets about doing this.
(16:53):
I would, in retrospect, makesome slightly different
decisions, but I will go back towhat we've always said in this
podcast, which is, I reallywouldn't, what I'm really trying
to do is help other people havea slightly easier path.
I wouldn't make differentdecisions because I am actually
happy with what we'veexperienced and where we are and
different decisions would've ledto a different outcome.
(17:14):
That I don't know.
Aimee (17:15):
Yeah.
That makes total sense.
Rebecca (17:19):
But mean those, okay, so those are my big things,
right?
Uh, how would I have navigatedthe visa differently?
Um, I'm really glad I'm nottrying to set up a business in
France.
I would heavily caution peopleagainst that idea, unless, you
know you're going to get set uphere.
I don't need me, I'm not gonnago into the details of it, but
if you are thinking of that,stop and ask so many questions.
Aimee (17:43):
Sleep on it for a year.
Rebecca (17:45):
Exactly.
Yeah.
It, it is, one of the thingsabout America is it seems to be
truer in America.
And when I say that, I mean theUnited States, um, truer in the
United States than anywhere elseon Earth that's starting a
business and operating abusiness is easier in the United
States of America than any placeelse I've encountered.
Aimee (18:06):
Yeah, I mean, that's.
That seems to be the case herein Spain as well,
Rebecca (18:10):
Yeah.
Aimee (18:11):
and a lot cheaper in the us.
Rebecca (18:13):
Yes.
Yeah.
It's set up to promoteenterprise, and you don't really
recognize what that means untilyou're in a place where it's
not.
Um, okay, so highlights.
The highlights are exactly whatI expected them to be.
The cheese is better than sex,which is a pretty high amount of
praise, but the cheese is thatgood here, the wine.
(18:34):
I still think Italy's is better,but it's free flowing and that's
quite lovely.
The dinners are relaxed, thepace of life is relaxed, the
food ingredients are off thecharts.
Sitting at a cafe at Twilight isevery bit is filled with Disney
Magic as they promised.
It is La Von Rose here.
(18:54):
I did not expect to enjoy livingin Paris as much as I do and I
love it
Aimee (19:02):
Awesome.
Rebecca (19:04):
and bringing the cat was brilliant.
Very glad I did that.
Traveling with a cat is much,much trickier, and that's mostly
because of lodgings, and infact, getting lodgings in
general is harder with a cat, sothat's another thing for people
to think about.
To me, again, no regrets.
A thousand percent worth it, butsurprisingly hard.
Aimee (19:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Are there any lessons thatyou've had that you weren't
expecting?
Rebecca (19:37):
It is sort of like, like what you're just saying
about the baby
Aimee (19:40):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (19:40):
lessons.
Weren't in, in and of themselvesweren't surprising, but the
amount at which it peels yoursoul raw and exposes it to the
elements was surprising.
I mean, we've had so manypodcast episodes where we're
talking about me overachieving,or trying to control and, and
exploring how not to do thosethings.
(20:01):
I didn't, I don't think I.
Expected that it would be suchan emotional bootcamp, but I am
grateful for it because it'sexactly what my personality
needed.
It's sort of like being forcedto make that phone call today.
I mean, I guess most of ushumans don't seek out hardship,
but hardship is how we learn andgrow and become stronger.
(20:25):
So I think if I'd known, like ifyou'd known what having a baby
was really like, some days you'dun choose it.
If I'd known how much it wouldtest me to let go of control and
outcome as much as I have to inorder to do this thing I wanna
do, I'm not sure I would had thecourage to do it.
So I'm glad I didn't know.
Aimee (20:45):
Yeah.
When you think about yourrelationship with work and where
you were a year ago, where youwere effectively in Paris, but
locked in your apartment,working on a program that you
were launching and not gettingout right, and really pushing
that hustle.
(21:05):
And then I'm thinking of May or,and our trip to, and you were,
you were gonna do a call withyour initial cohort on that
trip.
So if you put yourself back inthose shoes and you see where
you are now, the changes thatyou've made with your.
Identify your selfidentification, your self worth
(21:28):
around work and performance.
Rebecca (21:33):
That's a really interesting question.
It hasn't, it hasn't changed.
I, I don't know if it's me or myPuritan upbringing or the US
work ethic or what it is.
I.
I identify deeply with my work,but I think it's part because I
love my work, right?
So it's hard for me to detanglethat.
It's, what's been interesting isactually much more the practical
side of it, part of why it'staking me longer to build what
(21:55):
I'm trying to build.
I, I built those courses.
I've got two very big programsthat I both built and recorded
and teach live.
And I'm not gonna go into the.
Gymnastics of that.
But the point of that is thepoint, I have to experiment more
to figure out the answersbecause I thought that a more
passive income system byteaching classes would work
(22:17):
better.
So I could have classes that Icould.
Teach passively and I couldschedule out a class and say,
I'm gonna teach this class inthe spring and fall.
I'm gonna teach this one in thesummer and winter.
I'll plan my traveling aroundthat and whatever.
I was like, this sounds onpaper, this, this definitely
works.
It's not working the way Iwanted one, because the world is
very saturated with self-studycourses and everybody is
(22:37):
realizing that nobody everfinishes them.
Aimee (22:40):
Yeah.
Rebecca (22:40):
So the recorded courses are actually harder for me to
sell because I'm not convincedpeople will spend the money and
then do the course and then thatjust doesn't serve anybody.
And then the timed courses like,okay, I'll, I'll do this one in
April.
Because of the lifestyle I'vechosen and because of the
husband part of this, you know,his school changes quarter to
quarter and I don't know whatthe quarter will look like.
(23:02):
Until about a week before thequarter starts,
Aimee (23:04):
Right.
Rebecca (23:05):
then my dear husband decided to, you know, rip his
shoulder apart.
So now he's got a six monthbreak where he's gonna be having
the post-surgery.
So he would be sitting aroundfor six weeks and any wife out
there knows what that can belike in terms of distraction.
So I thought scheduling classesand having passive classes was
going to be this great solution.
(23:25):
Currently it is not.
So here I am again having torejigger how do I deliver my
services?
How do I make it easy to buyfrom me, given the limitations,
from time differences, fromneeding access to wifi, from all
of it.
I will not pretend to havefigured out this puzzle yet.
But the takeaway I would giveout there is if you are running
(23:46):
a business, or even like yousaid, working for a company
remotely, it's not going to beas simple as, oh, I'll just get
on Zoom and show up.
It's, it should be, but it'snot.
Aimee (23:59):
Yeah, anybody who works with international teams.
Or it already has the livedexperience of like having to get
up at 2:00 AM or 4:00 AM for,you know, a meeting that is in
India or Europe or, or what haveyou, and you just have to show
up, right?
Like it's, it's amazing how muchwe as Americans are willing to
do for work that is not typical,most other places.
(24:22):
Uh, do you feel that your, Imean, I hear the work ethic is
still there, the logistics arechanging.
Do you still feel that yourpattern is the same as it was
when you were in the States withregards to the hours and the
pressure that you put onyourself?
Because I know one of the thingsthat you wanted to do with
moving to Paris was to kind ofhave more life and less hustle.
Rebecca (24:47):
I really want to answer that.
I've gotten better in thatregard, if I'm being honest with
you, I don't think I have.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it, and it's in partbecause there's been such a
dramatic shift.
You know, I was running a fiveperson firm bringing in the
hundreds and hundreds ofthousands of dollars in revenue,
and I became a one person firmoffering completely different
(25:09):
services, and, and I have tofigure out how to sell and
deliver them.
So the, the income just isn't.
I'll put it this way, the incomedoesn't align with the bills
yet, and so it just adds thislevel of pressure, like I want
this lifestyle, but until I getthe machine going to the place
where it needs to get to, and Iknow I will, but typically with
(25:30):
my skillset, that machine wouldbe going by now.
But because I'm doing it inFrance, it's not where it would
be if I hadn't.
Moved.
Aimee (25:39):
Right, right.
Rebecca (25:41):
I think we were in America, if we were in the
United States and I wasanswering this, I would be like,
yeah, this is actually reallygreat because everything's in
motion and now when I'm off Idon't have to think about work.
But the thing about starting abusinesses, when you are in the
early days, you can, there isn'treally the luxury of an off
(26:01):
switch.
Aimee (26:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can't really clock outbecause your brain is always.
There.
Rebecca (26:05):
a bike isn't gonna move forward if you don't pedal it.
Aimee (26:08):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (26:09):
Now, once you're going there is momentum, you can
coast, you know?
Yeah, you might have to puddleup this hill, but then you can
skate down that hill.
That's just simply not the partof business that I'm in yet, and
I knew I was taking that on.
I didn't know I was taking it onfor the length of time I was
going to be taking it on for.
Because while I used to stretchmyself too thin by taking on too
many work things at one time,now I've actually, and I should
(26:32):
give myself credit for this, Ihave reigned in the number of
things I'm trying to do.
I'm very focused with my worknow, but I'm still stretched
thin because so much energy hasto go into the language and the
lifestyle and bureaucracy.
So I think it.
If we can take those two thingsapart, yes, I have grown and I
am able to compartmentalize andsay things are working.
(26:56):
It's fine.
But when things aren't going asfast as you want them to go, and
that affects the bills you needto pay and the retirement you
need to save for, and insteadyou're living on savings longer
than you may have planned for,it causes a new level of stress.
So it's sort, it's like stressreplacement therapy.
Aimee (27:15):
Objectively, like from the outside, you appear less
unilaterally focused on yourcareer.
You seem to have.
Other things going on more oftenthan I believe you two have had
when you were in the States.
Rebecca (27:36):
I
Aimee (27:37):
I also, from my perspective, you also seem to be
more relaxed about all of it.
Rebecca (27:42):
I'm really glad to hear that I do get that feedback.
Um.
When I get on Zoom with my momor just with anybody, they
almost always say, wow, you lookgreat.
And it's not like a style thing.
They're they, they're saying,you look healthy, you look not
so haggard, you, you look lesspale.
So I definitely know that thisis a healthier lifestyle for me,
(28:05):
um, which was one of the bigthings I wanted.
I just dunno if I can givemyself credit for that or if
it's just literally.
Better food, better, betterlifestyle.
It it's like, I don't know ifevery day you eat a sandwich
full of arsenic, and then theonly change you make is you eat
a sandwich not filled witharsenic, you're still just
(28:27):
eating a sandwich.
And yet you're healthier.
That's more how this feels tome.
It's like I allowed myself to gointo a healthier environment and
so even without being great atimproving my other habits, I am
in a healthier, better place.
Does that make sense?
Aimee (28:46):
It does make sense, but for those who are on the other
side of the pond and don't knowexactly what.
It means beyond sort of like avague conceptual fantasy of
Europe.
Rebecca (28:58):
Okay, here's a specific example.
I don't tend to eat at my deskanymore.
Aimee (29:04):
Okay.
That's freaking huge.
I still eat at my desk.
Rebecca (29:07):
I don't tend to, I still do sometimes, but meals in
France are not eaten, walkingaround, and they're not eaten
mindlessly.
You sit and you appreciate, I.
The thing that's gettingshoveled into your face.
So that's a huge change becauseI'm eating more mindfully, which
does slow you down, which meansI'm digesting better, which
means my entire body is workingbetter.
(29:27):
Um, and I do see the results ofthat in how I feel.
So I guess it, it feels like acheat code sort of to move.
But you know what's interestingabout this, the thing that I
keep thinking in the last coupleminutes is about the book I
wrote.
It's called Happy Starts atHome.
It's on design psychology, andit was sparked by getting
divorced and living in a housethat had all the memories and
ghosts of my past marriage.
(29:47):
And I was miserable.
And so I took charge of that.
I said, I'm not gonna live likethis.
I'm not gonna live surrounded bythings like this.
And I changed it and changing myenvironment, changed my
wellbeing, and I wrote an entirebook about it.
And I guess I feel like maybethis is just 2.0 of that.
I knew I needed a differentlifestyle in order to.
(30:09):
Be be the kind of healthy Iwanted to be.
And you and I have talked aboutthis, Aimee, you went back to
Alaska and you weren't walkingeverywhere, for example.
It's hard to live a healthylifestyle in the United States,
and so.
The reason I was excited to dothis was not just to support my
husband.
He was the excuse I wanted tochange my environment this
(30:30):
drastically because I hoped thatchanging my environment would
change my health, and it hasdone that.
I.
Aimee (30:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
Instead of just grabbingsomething, sitting at your desk
and eating it while you'reworking, you are taking a 5, 10,
15, 20 minute break.
You're sitting at a table,you're eating that meal
mindfully.
Instead of getting in your carto go get groceries or run
errands, you are now doing thaton foot it.
Rebecca (30:53):
Yes, absolutely.
Aimee (30:55):
Mm-hmm.
Because
Rebecca (30:56):
much walking.
I mean, every day is at minimuma three mile walk, and that
doesn't count.
The shopping time, that's atminimum.
Aimee (31:03):
Yep.
And so the three, three milesis, is roughly what?
Seven 8,000 steps?
Yeah.
Rebecca (31:08):
I believe you.
I don't have a step counter, butI'm also getting fresh air and
vitamin D at the same time.
This was something I was gettingvery little of in Seattle,
Aimee (31:16):
Yep.
Rebecca (31:17):
so that's, that's huge.
Um, meals themselves, the actualmeals tend to be long and
social.
That's huge for our wellbeing.
I don't even like humans and Istill know it's good for me.
Aimee (31:28):
Who are you dining with, now that you like, how, how
often are you dining with othersnow versus in the states?
Rebecca (31:36):
Well, it's very different kinds of dinings in
the states.
We used to host a lot of partiesat the house and people would
come to us and we'd havepotlucks, Friendsgiving, and all
kinds of like movie nights.
And I.
Aimee (31:45):
Like once a month or something.
Rebecca (31:47):
Yeah, I really, really miss that.
That's not something that I cando here in my lifestyle, but
it's been replaced with,literally going to restaurants
with Damien's school friendsand, you know, having an actual
meal bistro.
having his school friends overto practice cooking, which is a
very specific lifestyle momentbecause, you know, he is been in
school.
And then also my own personalnetworking of, Hey, I'm trying
(32:09):
to make friends.
You tend to go do that meetingup at a random cafe.
So it's very different from thesocializing that we did in the
United States, but it fills thesame social need,
Aimee (32:22):
Right, right.
Rebecca (32:23):
it feel the same costume need.
Really think France is lackingin the costume party department.
Aimee (32:28):
Well, so is your closet space, I mean the, the, that's a
huge limitation that you have towork around.
Rebecca (32:33):
Although that's another thing that I would love to
share, is I love living thislightly.
Forcing ourselves to move threeto every three to six months has
encouraged us to, I.
Keep getting rid of things and Ilove that.
So it's, everything's two sidesof a coin.
And you are going to sacrificesome things.
(32:54):
You're gonna sacrifice, in ourcase, convenience, that's gone.
There's none of that.
Um, that kind of socializingthat where I bring people in and
have a big party in my ownspace, that's something that
currently I have sacrificed.
So it's all about the.
The trade off, what do you getin return?
And for me Right.
now, this is worth it.
But Damien and I talk all thetime about, will we wonder where
(33:14):
this is leading?
You know, will we own a propertyagain?
Probably just given who we are?
Where will it be?
But when we do, we know that wewant it to be located in a place
where people can get to itbecause it needs to be social,
and we need it to be set up in away where we aren't afraid to
use it that way.
So we've learned a lot aboutourselves and our, I guess it's
(33:35):
like lifestyle again, lifestyleneeds that can sound kind of
silly, like.
Um, I need a dining room withsomething I didn't really know
before.
Moving here and living for ayear without a dining room.
It's not that I need a diningroom.
There's different ways to solvefor this, but I need a space
where I can gather eight to 20people, not be worried about
pissing off the neighbors and beable to.
(33:58):
Um, and for Damien to be able tocook for those people, like
these are things we'rediscovering are important.
Basically values, we're reallytalking about family values.
Aimee (34:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that, yeah, I think that isone thing that, that we do end
up learning, doing this is itreally highlights like some of
the things that are reallyimportant that you didn't
realize were important becausethey were always there and now
they're not, or they're harder.
And other things that you didn'trealize maybe you could have in
your life because it was neverpresented to you.
(34:27):
And here in Europe, it's just agiven.
It's just a given that if youstumble, if you fall.
If your child stumbles andfalls, if something happens that
people are going to rush towardyou to help you not stand back,
whip out their phones andvideotape your agony, um, gosh,
I sound super bitter when I say
Rebecca (34:47):
Well, but it's, but that's coming from so many
layers.
Just one for example, becauseit's not like Americans are just
bad people.
Right.
Aimee (34:53):
Yeah.
Rebecca (34:54):
We're all, we are all the same when we're born, so
we're obviously taughtsomething.
For example, in the UnitedStates, you can be sued for
anything, and so gettinginvolved assumes a level of risk
that you really have to.
Contemplate in the split secondwhen you're faced with a moment
of decision.
It's just one thing influencingthe fact that everybody's
(35:16):
standing around with theirphones, which is atrocious.
I'm not saying that's okay,
Aimee (35:19):
But that's how we got
Rebecca (35:20):
comes to be is a lot of history.
Aimee (35:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's how we got there was, youknow, 30, 30 to 50 years of
heavy, well, probably just 30.
'cause when I was a kid, weweren't that scared of other
people.
So sometime in the last 30years.
Is where the litigious naturereally kicked its heels up, and
now we just look at everybody asa risk.
Rebecca (35:42):
And that's really sad,
Aimee (35:44):
It's tragic
Rebecca (35:45):
but
Aimee (35:45):
and it's destroying the country.
Rebecca (35:47):
It is, but this is what travel does for us, is it
exposes us to the idea thatthere are alternatives when,
when you only ever see onething, it's a, it's a big
stretch to ask the humanimagination to come up with
something that you've never seenor experienced,
Aimee (36:01):
Yeah, and there's also just so much for those of us of
a certain age, so much that wehave forgotten, you know, Shane
and I were having a conversationabout this, a couple.
Weeks ago and then someonebrought it up just yest.
Oh, I was talking with a clientjust yesterday, uh, who brought
up just how much we have, howmuch the pandemic has changed
us, and our behaviors and ourbrains in a way that we've not
(36:24):
yet been able to recover fromand that we may not recover
from.
We may not re-remember how to.
Exist in the world in a way thatwe did before lockdown.
Rebecca (36:39):
I mean that makes sense.
Our experiences change usindividually and culturally.
Aimee (36:43):
Yeah.
But it was only, you know, inthe worst areas of the US it was
a year and a half, two years.
Rebecca (36:48):
Yeah, but I would never argue that the length of time
that something lasts equals theintensity of impact it can have
on you.
This could be very differentthings.
It was a huge turning point inso many ways.
It, for, for example, allows meto work remotely in a way that I
never would've gotten to,
Aimee (37:05):
Right.
Rebecca (37:06):
but.
It also allowed us to isolate ina way that was surprisingly
comfortable for a lot of us.
It's nice to not get out of yourpajamas.
It's nice to not go have to putup with the annoying habits of
other humans.
It's not healthy though, so itallowed us to isolate ourselves
and then develop a habit ofisolation, but that is just
(37:26):
reinforcing.
The fear that we have of eachother because we're always
afraid of things that we're notaround.
You know, Damien and I were justin Barcelona and we ended up
staying in a neighborhood wherethere's.
I don't know if this is all ofBarcelona, but I'm pretty sure
this was a very specificneighborhood where there was a
very large Muslim population intraditional Muslim dress.
Everything from um, normalstreet western clothes all the
(37:49):
way to burkas and everything inbetween men and women.
There were mostly men out.
And I imagine that's'cause intraditional society, the women
were doing their jobs at homewith the kids and stuff.
But it was really interesting'cause I'm not sure I've ever
walked around a neighborhoodthat had that much of a, a
density of population of Muslimpeople in Muslim garb.
Without a lot of other peoplearound as well, and it was, I
(38:10):
will not admit to beingcomfortable.
I was like, I am hyper aware ofbeing very white Right.
now, especially as a female.
My head uncovered, you know, andit was uncomfortable.
Was it unsafe?
I did not feel unsafe.
But your head sorts through allthe pieces of information that's
been fed from everywhere, mostlymedia of course, and you're
(38:31):
trying to parse out what's true,what's not true.
How do I behave in this moment?
You're trying to layer on actualproper cultural behavior.
Should I make eye contact withthat man who is clearly of a
different culture than me?
How do I engage?
So it's everything we've beenexperiencing in France,'cause
they don't respond to my smilehere as we know, but leveled up
(38:52):
from all of the fear that comesfrom A, the propaganda, and B,
the fact that this is not asituation I have been in before.
Aimee (39:00):
Right, the lack of familiarity.
Rebecca (39:01):
Yeah, we cannot allow ourselves to be isolated if we
have any hope of being acommunity at any level.
But it's uncomfortable.
It's not fun to put yourself inuncomfortable positions.
So what that tells me is I needto go to Morocco and I am gonna
plan a trip.
Aimee (39:18):
There we go.
Awesome.
Is there anything else that youhaven't mentioned that you feel
is a big realization or lessonor takeaway from the past year
in Paris?
I.
Rebecca (39:32):
I don't think so.
There's so many micro moments,and a lot of them would be
things like.
They're almost should'ves likeyou'll get further if you sign
up for French classes so thatyou have to go to those every
week, or you'll get further ifthis, that, or the other.
But the reality is this is anexperience that you have to let
unfold one pedal at a time.
(39:55):
There is no other way to do it.
That's the take.
There's no takeaway.
Just, just do it though.
If, if this is in your heart, itwill be hard and it will make
you a better person.
I don't know what version ofthat that's gonna mean for you.
Aimee (40:13):
Right.
Rebecca (40:14):
It'll be hard and it will make you a better person.
And whether you say after, likeafter nine months in the Peace
Corps, I realized it was not forme.
I was unhappy, I was unhealthy,I was 35 pounds heavier, and I.
went home and that was theRight.
decision.
And there's, there's no regrets.
So.
Try, try not to be attached tothe ending.
(40:34):
Attach yourself to the journeyonly, and it'll go pretty well.
Aimee (40:39):
Beautiful.
I can't think of anything to addto that.
Rebecca (40:43):
Well, I will ask our listeners to give us some
feedback if you've made it allthe way to the end of this
podcast.
Today, Aimee and I have beentalking about the length of our
podcasts.
We keep saying we're gonna limitthem to 20 to 30 minutes, and we
keep going to 45 minutes to anhour.
If you have an opinion about thelength of our podcast, please
reach out to us and tell us I amon Instagram at be seriously
happy and you can find Aimee at.
Aimee (41:03):
Vibrant nutrition.
Rebecca (41:04):
We love to hear from you guys.
Tell us your dreams, tell usyour hopes, tell us your fears.
We are happy to answer yourquestions.
Until next time folks.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person, brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time.
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