Where to find Aimee:
- Instagram: @vibrancenutrition
- Nutrition Coaching: vibrancenutrition.com
- Podcast on Nutrition: Blasphemous Nutrition
- Substack on Nomadic Life: NomadicNomMom
Where to find Rebecca:
- Instagram and her life in Paris: @beseriouslyhappy
- Podcast for Interior Design-preneurs: Stuff Interior Designers Need to Know
- Biz Coaching for Interior Designers: seriouslyhappy.com
- Book on Interior Design Psychology: Happy Starts at Home
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcastabout two women, Amy and
Rebecca, who each move from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats.
Amy to Spain and Rebecca toFrance.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure.
Encourage you to follow yourown, move abroad dreams, and
remind you that you're not alonewhen the going gets tough.
Enjoy.
Aimee (00:24):
Rebecca?
Okay, so, um, I know Damien hadhis surgery because I texted you
that morning and was like, howdid it go?
What happened?
And you said, oh, he didn'tever, or he was awake and
talking the whole time.
(00:44):
And I'm like, what the hell?
And then we started talkingabout other things and so I
like, what the hell, Rebecca,what happened?
And how is he doing?
Rebecca (00:54):
Circle back.
Okay, so we're going back in thetime machine by, um, almost no,
yeah.
Two weeks.
Exactly.
Today is two weeks to the dayfrom when he had surgery.
And to answer your burningquestion, yeah.
He was not put under generalanesthesia for rotator cuff
(01:15):
surgery,
Aimee (01:16):
Oh my God.
Rebecca (01:17):
we are pretty sure he was put under general when he
had the same surgery in theUnited States a few years back.
Aimee (01:23):
So they treat rotator cuff surgery in France, like
they treat colonoscopies inEurope, which is you don't get
knocked out, you get to stayawake.
Rebecca (01:34):
I haven't had one, a colonoscopy, so I can't compare,
but yes.
Aimee (01:40):
had one in Europe either, but that's what I've been told,
and I'm like, you know, I kindof like that idea because
honestly, if somebody is shovingsomething up my butt, I want to
know what's going on.
I'm sorry, but if you're gonnaperforate, perforate my colon, I
wanna be warned.
Thank you.
I don't wanna wake up afterwardswith sepsis.
Rebecca (02:00):
No, I am gonna have to be on the other side of that,
and if the worst is gonnahappen, I would rather be
unaware of it until somebody'salready come up with a game plan
for.
Aimee (02:12):
Well actually, um, perforated colons are more
common in the US because peopleare put under and they do not
have any feedback from thepatient as they are going all up
in there.
So
Rebecca (02:25):
and this is the thing we are talking about.
Aimee (02:27):
cultural.
Rebecca (02:28):
differences in the healthcare mentality the threads
of this are kind of hard tounravel in terms of what
decisions have been made withinwhich societies.
But we do know that generalanesthesia is dangerous.
It's not, it's not natural toknock your body out and not let
(02:49):
it do its job, in America welike reducing our pain.
We
Aimee (02:56):
We wanna reduce any kind of discomfort that exists in our
body or our mind at any cost.
And I think
Rebecca (03:02):
for our lives.
We want our sofas comfy, ourwaistlines comfy, and our
surgeries comfy.
And our birth process comfy.
Aimee (03:10):
Convenient, comfy, and convenient.
And Look at where it's gottenus.
Rebecca (03:16):
I don't know, we have to remind our listeners this is
one experience, right?
So we have had one experience inthe healthcare system and one
surgery.
So we don't want to assume thatthis is the only thing that's
normal, but he was surprised hedidn't enjoy the experience of
hearing somebody drill holesinto his bones next to his ear.
(03:40):
Um, but the surgery wentbeautifully.
He is already without stitches.
all the nursing happened in ourhome, so he never had to go back
to a clinic after the actualsurgery.
Aimee (03:52):
Stop there.
I find that exquisite,delightful, amazing, and far
more comfortable and convenientthan being put out during
surgery.
I.
Like, let me stay awake duringsurgery if that means that
money, instead of going to theanesthesiologist and the drugs
(04:14):
pays for a nurse to come to myhome to dress my wounds and give
me medicine, I will take that.
Thank you very much.
I.
Rebecca (04:24):
Angles.
First of all, the patient who isin theory broken in some way,
doesn't have to.
Get up and move around.
Doesn't have to go into ahospital where there's a ton of
germs while you'reimmunocompromised compromised.
The
Aimee (04:38):
doesn't have to use hospital resources.
Rebecca (04:41):
exactly electricity.
Uh, check-in staff, like cleanjanitorial, right?
None of that is a cost.
there aren't.
Hundreds of individual clientstransporting themselves from an
ecological point, uh,perspective to a hospital.
There's one person going to allof these homes.
(05:02):
Yeah.
It, it was so surprising when wewere told that this was how it's
going to work.
'cause it's so completely theopposite of the United States
experience, but it made so muchsense as soon as we thought
about it.
Aimee (05:17):
Yeah, well we haven't had that kind of care in the United
States since maybe the sixties,
Rebecca (05:24):
And in terms of coming to your home, maybe the 18
hundreds
Aimee (05:28):
No doctors used to do house calls for like elders and,
and in the infirm, you know, Ithink in the, even in the
fifties and the sixties,
Rebecca (05:36):
and all we have now is hospice.
It's only when you are at theend of your life that that is a
thing.
Aimee (05:42):
Well, I, gosh, I'm just like, I feel like we would be
such a much better society interms of anti fragility if we.
Stayed awake during things likecolonoscopies and dental
procedures, and even rotatorcuff surgery.
Although when you talk aboutdrilling into my bones, it does
(06:03):
freak me out.
Rebecca (06:04):
Do.
I mean, it could be worse.
My mom in the States, she justhad a cancer removed from the
top of her head.
Aimee (06:11):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (06:12):
They had to, it was, it was a big deal.
They had to drill into her bonesand that was a surgery that she
did have to be awake for somereason for.
So she had her skull beingdrilled into under non-general.
Aimee (06:24):
Wow.
That gives me like Mayan pastlife flashbacks.
That's wild.
Was it the Mayans?
Who was it?
There was, I mean, there was aa, a, a culture in the Americas
thousands of years ago that diddo surgery on the skull where
they would cut into to relievepressure after a head wound.
(06:45):
Um, like they had that level oftechnology back then and that
level of understanding, and thenit was lost for a while and then
it came back.
Um, yeah.
That's intense.
Rebecca (06:57):
But like I said, everything went great.
Um, did I tell you last timeabout like payment and stuff?
Did we talk about like the
Aimee (07:05):
No, no.
I like, we know, we knownothing.
We know nothing.
All, all we knew was that thesurgery was scheduled, it was
gonna cost, like, you know whatthe price of a week of coffees
in Paris and,
Rebecca (07:22):
Yeah.
So for example.
Aimee (07:24):
to go in.
Rebecca (07:25):
The, well, no, I, I don't wanna start at the end, do
I?
All right.
Yeah.
For example, those four nursevisits were mostly covered by
car vial, the, the socialhealthcare system.
So as I think I've mentionedbefore here, there is socialized
healthcare and it doesn't cover.
(07:46):
Everything.
I don't exactly understand whatthe rules are for what's not
covered, but there's always abit of a residual amount.
And most French people have amutual, which is that top up
insurance.
So when you go into thehospital, they say, do you have
your cart vital?
And hopefully the answer is yes'cause it's really easy if they
(08:08):
literally like swipe it like acredit card.
That's the system.
Now the system is set up todirectly pay the bills with very
little administrative burden.
There's no, as far as I cantell, there's no coding and, and
all of these middlemen that seemto be in our system.
Um, then they ask if you have amutual, and in our case, we say,
(08:29):
no, we're gonna pay cash forwhatever's remaining.
In the case of these four.
Human shows up at our house,nurse visits.
Damien paid a total of 21 Euro.
Aimee (08:42):
Holy shit.
Rebecca (08:43):
Yeah, that's not even a week of coffees in the United
States.
Aimee (08:48):
No, in Seattle that is, oh, actually wait.
And then you have tax and tip.
So, um, that is two and a halflattes in the Seattle metro
area.
Rebecca (09:03):
Isn't that insane?
Um, we got a huge pile ofpharmaceuticals and bandages.
I can't remember exactly what itwas, which means it must have
been less than 50 euro.
It
Aimee (09:15):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (09:16):
and that covered, that included, um, golly.
So there was ananti-inflammatory, there was a
kind of a Tylenol level drug.
There was a antidiarrheal and astool softener because they
actually prescribe for you thedrugs that deal with the side
effects that are likely from thedrugs they're prescribing.
Aimee (09:38):
Right.
Rebecca (09:38):
And there was, um, I dunno, two or four kind of
morphine level drugs in case youneeded it.
All of that, less than whateverit was like.
Aimee (09:49):
And, what was the patient experience with European
painkillers versus what hewould've gotten in the states?
Rebecca (09:59):
I can answer that a couple ways.
What do you, can you rephrasethat question?
Aimee (10:02):
Sure.
So, you know, Damien's had thesurgery before in the states,
presumably.
He also received painkillers aspart of recovery.
And had, you know, varyingdegrees of pain and management
of that pain throughout thehealing process.
There are, I'm assumingdifferent drugs, different
(10:23):
strengths, different kinds ofpain management medication here
in Europe because opioids.
Um, and what was like, what ishis experience healing here in
terms of the amount of painHe's.
He's undergoing in the efficacyof the pain management
medication here in Europe versuswhat he had in the us.
Rebecca (10:49):
I would say they've been surprisingly similar.
I feel like we got fewer overalldrugs in terms of the number of
drugs we brought home.
There was very clear instructionlike, don't use those high level
drugs unless you've alreadytried the other things and
you're still in that kind ofpain.
(11:10):
But they did say, particularlyif you're not sleeping through
the night, use the drugs becausethey're trying to give you
guidance on how to heal.
Um, I would say that at a toplevel, it feels very similar to
what we experienced in theUnited States, but it wasn't.
I don't know.
(11:30):
There's just, it didn't feellike they took the purpose of
drugs as seriously.
They're just like, yeah, take itif you need it.
In the United States, there'salso, I don't, I don't know if
this is true in the UnitedStates, but I've lived there a
long time and picked up a lot ofdrugs over my decades.
There was very clear labeling onthose high level drugs.
(11:53):
It says, if you don't use these,please return them to the
pharmacy.
Aimee (11:56):
Nice.
Rebecca (11:57):
really easy, not punitive, not nanny state
feeling.
There's, there's not thisfeeling of dictation about what
you should be doing.
There's kind of an assumptionthat you're a grownup.
Maybe that's what I'm trying toexpress, like here is clear
instruction so that you can takecare of yourself and we assume
you're going to do that.
(12:19):
It's the same thing with like ifyou see a big hole in the
sidewalk and then you fall intoit.
They're gonna be like, why'd youfall in the hole?
Look where you're going.
Not who can I sue?
Like, it's sort of related tothat
Aimee (12:32):
Yep.
Rebecca (12:33):
level of adulting.
So
Aimee (12:35):
Yep.
Rebecca (12:36):
obviously I'm trying to interpret a lot, but the facts
are, the drugs were prettysimilar.
I do feel like we got a fewfewer of them, and other than
that, they are all differentdrugs, which is a little weird
because there's a, there's acomfort that goes with knowing
your drugs.
Like Tylenol and codeine.
(12:57):
I know if I take that, whathappens because it's the drugs I
grew up with.
Whatever his high level drugwas, I don't remember at all.
We just don't know how he'llrespond to it.
And so it made him less likelyto take'em.
Aimee (13:11):
Mm.
Rebecca (13:12):
And we also have to remember that my, my husband has
a really weird ability.
To heal and doesn't, and he hasa really high pain tolerance, so
your results will vary ascompared to Damien, who is like
this healthy horse of a man.
Aimee (13:30):
Right, right.
Now, when you say there were fewleft with fewer drugs, do you
mean fewer numbers of differentkinds of drugs or fewer quantity
of the drugs that you wereprescribed?
Rebecca (13:41):
Fewer quantity of the drugs we were prescribed.
It actually felt like more drugsbecause we, they said, just pick
these up to go with these.
And it's kinda like cocktails,and I don't remember that being
as true in the United States,but literally fewer high level
drug pills at all.
Aimee (13:59):
Yep.
Awesome.
Rebecca (14:03):
Yeah,
Aimee (14:04):
Wow.
So he's two weeks out and you,you know, you've kind of talked
him up as being a little bionic,so how is he doing with, like,
how is he recovering?
Is he back to doing pushups or?
Rebecca (14:20):
he wants to, he's already don't, don't tell my
mother.
She'll be mad at me.
He's already cooking.
I try to rescue, rescue him whenI hear things happening in the
kitchen.
Um, he
Aimee (14:33):
And he is like, but I got this idea and I need to try it.
Rebecca (14:36):
well, he's just, he's stir crazy.
He's an active human and everypart of him is functioning
except for this one stupidshoulder.
So he's just trying to do a lotof things.
One hand did, um.
But no, he's healing upfantastically.
The funniest and cutest thing isas we walk around, we'll go out
to dinner, people will see himin his brace'cause his arm is
(14:59):
completely strapped to his body.
And we will get advice fromFrench people.
So this one, this one experiencewe had, he said, oh yeah, I had
exactly that same surgery aswhen I was paying the bill
inside.
Tell your husband that thekeynote is very important.
The keno, um, kinesthesiology,the pt.
And I was like, okay, I will.
(15:21):
You know, and we've hadinteractions like that many,
many times.
They do seem to take thephysical therapy more seriously
than we do too.
It's about getting healthy.
That's like all the arrows pointat, we're trying to help you be
well.
Aimee (15:39):
Right, and I, the major reason why people don't do PT in
the US is because it'sinconvenient and it takes time.
Rebecca (15:48):
And it's expensive because you don't know what's
covered.
And even if it is covered,you've got all your deductibles.
We are disincentivized in theUnited States to take care of
ourselves.
When you have a good socializedhealthcare system, the whole
system is incentivized to makesure you're not.
Spending money in stupid waysand keeping your population sick
(16:14):
is expensive.
So if your, if your system isfor profit, keeping them sick is
a good business decision.
If your system isn't keepingyour people healthy is a good
economic decision.
The math is so simple.
Aimee (16:32):
Yes, exactly.
Rebecca (16:34):
And this is the thing that keeps me going through my
Visa renewal, which I shouldalso update you on because I
want this.
Aimee (16:42):
yeah.
It makes me wanna scream, cry,and vomit all at the same time,
because I'm not gonna have ityet or maybe ever.
Rebecca (16:56):
I know and it's the one thing.
It is, I think truly the onething that makes me not wanna go
back to the states, almost allof the rest of the stuff that's
going on politically I careabout, but it doesn't at this
age and at my income bracket andstuff, a lot of it doesn't
affect affect me directly rightnow, but the healthcare stuff
(17:19):
does
Aimee (17:20):
Yeah,
Rebecca (17:21):
and it will.
Aimee (17:22):
more.
Rebecca (17:23):
More.
Yeah.
Every year that passes it willaffect me more.
Aimee (17:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I am, I have actually, you know,with, as, as of this recording,
it is still, uh, it is the endof April, 2025.
And so it's been a fun month inthe stock market for those of
you who are following along.
And I've been really gratefulthat I am, you know, 20, 25
(17:47):
years away from retiringbecause.
I'm not worried.
I'm like, you know, I'm, I'mkind of treating it as stocks
are on sale right now.
I should probably invest more atthis point in time because when
we look historically, likethings always bounce back within
five years.
Rebecca (18:06):
So if you have time, it's okay to take a breath, but
for people who don't, thiscrisis is real for them.
Aimee (18:14):
it absolutely.
And terrifying.
Yeah.
Rebecca (18:17):
Yeah.
So, yeah, so couple of weeks.
He will start.
Kinesthesiology, uh, physicaltherapy and he should be back to
fight and form.
I think he has to wear the bracefor six weeks total, but at
week, like three years,something he can stop strapping
his arm to him, uh, to himselfand yeah, pretty normal.
(18:40):
I mean, truly, that's the thingthat's been most remarkable
about this.
It has been a very wonderfulapples to apples comparison of
exactly the same surgery heexperienced in the United
States.
It's been nice to see how muchof it is the same.
It's not lower quality in anyregard.
In some ways, it's better.
(19:02):
I can't think of anything thathas been worse, aside from just
the fact that we just don't knowhow to navigate it and we don't
know what to expect.
So there's some nervousnessthere.
Everything they promised.
They being the people that saidyou should be an expat.
It's true So now I'm trying tostay an expat.
Damien, I think he got hisannouncement that his visa has
(19:26):
been renewed today, so he isdone and I am not.
Aimee (19:31):
alright.
And where are you at in thatprocess?
Rebecca (19:34):
All right.
Well, so last we spoke, I thinkI had told you I needed that
free mobile invoice.
I needed some kind of utilitybill that had my name and my
address in
Aimee (19:47):
Right, and the phone company was like, yeah, I can't
give you that.
Rebecca (19:50):
Well, to give credit to free mobile, and I'll tell you
the journey in a second.
They did it.
In fact, they did it in time.
Unfortunately, I didn't catchthe email in the three hour
remaining window, which is, I'mnot, I'm not beating myself up
with this, but I.
(20:11):
Maybe if I had seen the email atthe right moment and the lawyer
had also seen the email at theright moment, it could have all
happened, but it didn't.
But that is not free Mobile'sfault.
So what I had to do was.
Call free mobile.
And I think I told you theyweren't allowed to speak in
English.
Did I tell you
Aimee (20:31):
Yes, yes.
Rebecca (20:31):
Yes.
So I had to speak in French andthey told, well, the second
person, first person lied to me,so that's on them.
But the second person said, youhave to write a letter, send it
to this address, and they willtake care of it.
And I was like, there is no wayThat's true.
Now the problem is I don't havea printer.
(20:53):
We've talked about this problembefore on the podcast and the
timeline.
I'm like, how am I supposed toget this printed, signed, and
mailed quickly?
So my lawyer told me thatthere's this system where you
can send a certified letter inFrance digitally.
I'm like, that's cool.
(21:14):
You can send a certified letterin France digitally.
So I'm like.
Interesting.
And, uh, if anybody, I don'tremember the name of it, if
anybody needs that, shoot me amessage.
I will make sure to get you thatinformation.
So I did it.
The way it works is you pay forthe certified letter, which was
(21:36):
about five euro, five, sixbucks, and then you're
subscribed to a monthly thingfor 40 euro a month, and you can
send up to five certifiedletters a month.
So if you're needing to do this.
It's a remarkable system.
Like if I own a business here orsomething like that.
(21:56):
Now I don't have to do this veryoften, so clearly I don't wanna
pay$40 a month, 40 euro a month,but I'm like, this is important.
I can cancel it any time, evenif this whole thing costs me one
month's worth and the fee cool.
So I do it.
I didn't get, however, a noticethat said it had sent, I got
charged my credit card.
(22:17):
There was no notice it had sent.
So I said to the lawyer.
I don't have any proof thissent.
Can you please, please, please,please, please also print this
thing.
'cause I did sign it digitallyand mail it and my kind lawyer
said, yes, I'm out of town, butmy assistant will do it.
He did it.
Good thing because the systemdidn't work, it didn't send.
(22:40):
The next day I got an email fromthe certified letter people
saying We're so, so sorry forreasons beyond our control.
Certified mail.
Isn't sending today.
I, who knows why?
I don't know.
Aimee (22:52):
Oh my God.
Rebecca (22:53):
We're, we'll be delighted to refund you.
And I'm like, you think?
And um, I actually had to followup with them for the refund, but
it went really smoothly.
Aimee (23:04):
Good.
Rebecca (23:04):
the system is a good one, but it didn't work.
Which is sort of the story oflife in France, uh, in Europe.
So.
But like I said, they sent theletter and lo and behold, three
hours before my deadline, I didget an, I did get it.
(23:25):
It showed up in the system.
I just didn't check it in thoselast wee hours.
I had been checking it the wholerest of the day.
I went into client meetings.
It didn't happen, and so now Ihave to resubmit.
But it turns out, did I tell youwhat the fallout would be?
Because I did find out.
So I was so nervous.
(23:46):
I'm like, what's gonna happen?
Are they gonna send me back tothe United States?
Am I gonna have to go back tothe United States and apply for
a whole new visa?
Like I didn't, while my mindgoes to the darkest places, I
legitimately didn't know whatwould happen if we missed the
deadline.
And one thing I have noticedabout way too many people who
(24:07):
are providing professionalservices is they don't do a good
job of telling clients.
Things that will lower theirblood pressure right now, they
might be doing that on purpose.
Maybe they don't want the clientto take it too easy.
We want to incentivize ourclients to meet deadlines.
I get that.
(24:27):
However, I was really freakingout and it turns out, as far as
I understand from what they toldme, it's just going to be an HUN
180 euro reapplication fee.
Aimee (24:39):
Oh,
Rebecca (24:39):
I'm like, take my money.
That's it.
I was picturing myself deported.
Aimee (24:45):
you don't even have to resubmit everything.
Rebecca (24:48):
Um, you kind of do, but yeah, so I do, I have to get all
of my fresh, three months ofbank statements.
I had to get a new e photo,which is an electronic system
that they have for, uh, photosfor your visas and driver's
license and stuff here.
Which you can get in the kiosks,in the metros, like it's a whole
(25:09):
easy system.
So I have to resubmit threemonths of bank statements.
My e photo, you have to signthis Republican contract, which
basically says I promised tobehave myself while allowed to
be here in France and ba obeythe rules of France.
Um, like a light version of whatyou would say if you were trying
to become a citizen, like yes,this is my
Aimee (25:31):
right.
Rebecca (25:33):
Um.
And then maybe one otherdocument that I can't remember
right now.
So pretty straightforward andnow I'm just waiting'cause they
have all my stuff again.
Aimee (25:44):
But now you, they have all your stuff and it's
submitted and you're not, you'rejust waiting for the approval to
come in, which is fantastic.
Rebecca (25:51):
Yes.
And same on the cart.
Vital.
That one I'm not as confidenton.
I resubmitted my proof oflodging stuff my landlord isn't.
Um.
Think super helpful with this.
So we've had three landlords inthe time we've been here.
The first one was so, so easy towork with and I think it's in
(26:13):
part because he is Chineseliving in France.
So I suspect, yeah.
Aimee (26:19):
And if he was born and raised in France, then he's got
family members who have livedthrough it.
And so he knows stories.
Rebecca (26:25):
Yeah, and I never met him personally, so I'm not sure
what generation he is, but Iknow that he was renting out his
apartment'cause he was goingback to China to get married.
So clearly he is crossing twocultures.
Aimee (26:36):
Yeah.
Yep.
Rebecca (26:38):
Our second person was between visas, so it didn't
matter.
This one, it's partly weirdbecause her parents own.
The place, place and then allthe utility bills are in her
name.
The visa people want all ofthese things to align.
So not only are none of thebills in my name, they're
(26:58):
nodding all even and thelandlord's name.
So they wanted a deed and mylandlord was like, no, I'm not
comfortable with that andthere's nothing I can do.
So I did what I could and we'llsee what happens.
Aimee (27:16):
And you're moving again when?
Rebecca (27:18):
We leave this address at the end of June, so April,
may, June, so two and a half.
Just under two and a halfmonths.
Aimee (27:27):
Yep.
Rebecca (27:28):
Then, yeah, this is actually a problem.
We have a really nice guardianhere.
That's the person who takes careof the buildings.
We're hoping to ask her.
She speaks no English.
We're hoping to ask her inFrench if.
For us to hold onto it, we'regonna ask the landlord the same
(27:49):
thing.
Um, but we won't really have apermanent address again until we
come back in September.
Aimee (27:57):
Oh, September.
Wow.
Rebecca (27:59):
Yeah.
So do we, we can't change theaddresses with these systems
until we have a new address.
If we go ahead and figure outwhere we're gonna be living in
September now, do we give thataddress?
To all these places now, like asI, as I said a couple episodes
(28:19):
ago, my biggest advice toanybody following in my
footsteps is choose one addressand stick with it.
'cause I have, we havecomplicated our lives so much by
these choices.
Aimee (28:34):
Yeah.
We submitted for our Visaapplication when we were in that
process and we were, um,preparing to submit from the
United States.
We used the address of ourAirbnb.
You know, two months before wehad even arrived in Spain.
So if you have an address, Irecommend and you can get all
(28:58):
that paperwork together, totallydo it before you're there
because
Rebecca (29:01):
But it depends on the landlord too.
Like if they get mail in ourname, they obviously need to not
throw it away.
And you know, Airbnbs.
Sometimes they're turning peopleover so much they don't even
check the mail or it's,
Aimee (29:16):
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, it depends on who theperson is, right?
But if you submit all of thatpaperwork like two or three
weeks before you're there, it'snot gonna show up before you do.
Rebecca (29:26):
and even if it does, you can say, Hey, I never got
it.
I need it resent.
And it's just another example ofthe molasses slow experience of
being an expat.
What's the next step?
What are the 17 steps that areactually part of that next step?
And you can't really think pastthat step because you just don't
(29:49):
have the mental, I don't havethe mental capacity for it.
Aimee (29:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, when you thinkabout everything that we've
spoken about today, the, thehigh of private nurses coming to
your home to help you recoverfrom surgery that was insanely
cheap and the low of this wholesnafu with Visa re applications.
(30:12):
What sort of advice or takeawaywould you offer our listeners?
Rebecca (30:17):
I guess it's the same advice I would offer myself.
Keep your eye on what you'retrying to achieve.
If the North Star you're aimingat is strong enough.
It'll get you through everysingle step.
I wouldn't have the fortitude tokeep doing all of this if I
didn't know why I was doing allof this.
(30:40):
It's not easy.
So figure out whether you'reremodeling your home, speaking
as an interior designer, ormoving to another country or
getting married or whatever itis.
What is the outcome you want andlet that guide.
Every decision and let that helpyou pick yourself up off the
floor when you're having yourtantrum and meltdown and keep
(31:04):
going.
Aimee (31:06):
Beautiful.
That's excellent life advice
Rebecca (31:09):
Yeah, I should take it.
Aimee (31:11):
and I think with that I wanna bid our listeners and Asta
Lugo.
Rebecca (31:17):
Look at us staying on time.
A la prochaine.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Banla.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person, brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time.
Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcastabout two women, Amy and
Rebecca, who each move from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats.
Amy to Spain and Rebecca toFrance.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure.
Encourage you to follow yourown, move abroad dreams, and
remind you that you're not alonewhen the going gets tough.
Enjoy.
Aimee (00:24):
Rebecca?
Okay, so, um, I know Damien hadhis surgery because I texted you
that morning and was like, howdid it go?
What happened?
And you said, oh, he didn'tever, or he was awake and
talking the whole time.
(00:44):
And I'm like, what the hell?
And then we started talkingabout other things and so I
like, what the hell, Rebecca,what happened?
And how is he doing?
Rebecca (00:54):
Circle back.
Okay, so we're going back in thetime machine by, um, almost no,
yeah.
Two weeks.
Exactly.
Today is two weeks to the dayfrom when he had surgery.
And to answer your burningquestion, yeah.
He was not put under generalanesthesia for rotator cuff
(01:15):
surgery,
Aimee (01:16):
Oh my God.
Rebecca (01:17):
we are pretty sure he was put under general when he
had the same surgery in theUnited States a few years back.
Aimee (01:23):
So they treat rotator cuff surgery in France, like
they treat colonoscopies inEurope, which is you don't get
knocked out, you get to stayawake.
Rebecca (01:34):
I haven't had one, a colonoscopy, so I can't compare,
but yes.
Aimee (01:40):
had one in Europe either, but that's what I've been told,
and I'm like, you know, I kindof like that idea because
honestly, if somebody is shovingsomething up my butt, I want to
know what's going on.
I'm sorry, but if you're gonnaperforate, perforate my colon, I
wanna be warned.
Thank you.
I don't wanna wake up afterwardswith sepsis.
Rebecca (02:00):
No, I am gonna have to be on the other side of that,
and if the worst is gonnahappen, I would rather be
unaware of it until somebody'salready come up with a game plan
for.
Aimee (02:12):
Well actually, um, perforated colons are more
common in the US because peopleare put under and they do not
have any feedback from thepatient as they are going all up
in there.
So
Rebecca (02:25):
and this is the thing we are talking about.
Aimee (02:27):
cultural.
Rebecca (02:28):
differences in the healthcare mentality the threads
of this are kind of hard tounravel in terms of what
decisions have been made withinwhich societies.
But we do know that generalanesthesia is dangerous.
It's not, it's not natural toknock your body out and not let
(02:49):
it do its job, in America welike reducing our pain.
We
Aimee (02:56):
We wanna reduce any kind of discomfort that exists in our
body or our mind at any cost.
And I think
Rebecca (03:02):
for our lives.
We want our sofas comfy, ourwaistlines comfy, and our
surgeries comfy.
And our birth process comfy.
Aimee (03:10):
Convenient, comfy, and convenient.
And Look at where it's gottenus.
Rebecca (03:16):
I don't know, we have to remind our listeners this is
one experience, right?
So we have had one experience inthe healthcare system and one
surgery.
So we don't want to assume thatthis is the only thing that's
normal, but he was surprised hedidn't enjoy the experience of
hearing somebody drill holesinto his bones next to his ear.
(03:40):
Um, but the surgery wentbeautifully.
He is already without stitches.
all the nursing happened in ourhome, so he never had to go back
to a clinic after the actualsurgery.
Aimee (03:52):
Stop there.
I find that exquisite,delightful, amazing, and far
more comfortable and convenientthan being put out during
surgery.
I.
Like, let me stay awake duringsurgery if that means that
money, instead of going to theanesthesiologist and the drugs
(04:14):
pays for a nurse to come to myhome to dress my wounds and give
me medicine, I will take that.
Thank you very much.
I.
Rebecca (04:24):
Angles.
First of all, the patient who isin theory broken in some way,
doesn't have to.
Get up and move around.
Doesn't have to go into ahospital where there's a ton of
germs while you'reimmunocompromised compromised.
The
Aimee (04:38):
doesn't have to use hospital resources.
Rebecca (04:41):
exactly electricity.
Uh, check-in staff, like cleanjanitorial, right?
None of that is a cost.
there aren't.
Hundreds of individual clientstransporting themselves from an
ecological point, uh,perspective to a hospital.
There's one person going to allof these homes.
(05:02):
Yeah.
It, it was so surprising when wewere told that this was how it's
going to work.
'cause it's so completely theopposite of the United States
experience, but it made so muchsense as soon as we thought
about it.
Aimee (05:17):
Yeah, well we haven't had that kind of care in the United
States since maybe the sixties,
Rebecca (05:24):
And in terms of coming to your home, maybe the 18
hundreds
Aimee (05:28):
No doctors used to do house calls for like elders and,
and in the infirm, you know, Ithink in the, even in the
fifties and the sixties,
Rebecca (05:36):
and all we have now is hospice.
It's only when you are at theend of your life that that is a
thing.
Aimee (05:42):
Well, I, gosh, I'm just like, I feel like we would be
such a much better society interms of anti fragility if we.
Stayed awake during things likecolonoscopies and dental
procedures, and even rotatorcuff surgery.
Although when you talk aboutdrilling into my bones, it does
(06:03):
freak me out.
Rebecca (06:04):
Do.
I mean, it could be worse.
My mom in the States, she justhad a cancer removed from the
top of her head.
Aimee (06:11):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (06:12):
They had to, it was, it was a big deal.
They had to drill into her bonesand that was a surgery that she
did have to be awake for somereason for.
So she had her skull beingdrilled into under non-general.
Aimee (06:24):
Wow.
That gives me like Mayan pastlife flashbacks.
That's wild.
Was it the Mayans?
Who was it?
There was, I mean, there was aa, a, a culture in the Americas
thousands of years ago that diddo surgery on the skull where
they would cut into to relievepressure after a head wound.
(06:45):
Um, like they had that level oftechnology back then and that
level of understanding, and thenit was lost for a while and then
it came back.
Um, yeah.
That's intense.
Rebecca (06:57):
But like I said, everything went great.
Um, did I tell you last timeabout like payment and stuff?
Did we talk about like the
Aimee (07:05):
No, no.
I like, we know, we knownothing.
We know nothing.
All, all we knew was that thesurgery was scheduled, it was
gonna cost, like, you know whatthe price of a week of coffees
in Paris and,
Rebecca (07:22):
Yeah.
So for example.
Aimee (07:24):
to go in.
Rebecca (07:25):
The, well, no, I, I don't wanna start at the end, do
I?
All right.
Yeah.
For example, those four nursevisits were mostly covered by
car vial, the, the socialhealthcare system.
So as I think I've mentionedbefore here, there is socialized
healthcare and it doesn't cover.
(07:46):
Everything.
I don't exactly understand whatthe rules are for what's not
covered, but there's always abit of a residual amount.
And most French people have amutual, which is that top up
insurance.
So when you go into thehospital, they say, do you have
your cart vital?
And hopefully the answer is yes'cause it's really easy if they
(08:08):
literally like swipe it like acredit card.
That's the system.
Now the system is set up todirectly pay the bills with very
little administrative burden.
There's no, as far as I cantell, there's no coding and, and
all of these middlemen that seemto be in our system.
Um, then they ask if you have amutual, and in our case, we say,
(08:29):
no, we're gonna pay cash forwhatever's remaining.
In the case of these four.
Human shows up at our house,nurse visits.
Damien paid a total of 21 Euro.
Aimee (08:42):
Holy shit.
Rebecca (08:43):
Yeah, that's not even a week of coffees in the United
States.
Aimee (08:48):
No, in Seattle that is, oh, actually wait.
And then you have tax and tip.
So, um, that is two and a halflattes in the Seattle metro
area.
Rebecca (09:03):
Isn't that insane?
Um, we got a huge pile ofpharmaceuticals and bandages.
I can't remember exactly what itwas, which means it must have
been less than 50 euro.
It
Aimee (09:15):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (09:16):
and that covered, that included, um, golly.
So there was ananti-inflammatory, there was a
kind of a Tylenol level drug.
There was a antidiarrheal and astool softener because they
actually prescribe for you thedrugs that deal with the side
effects that are likely from thedrugs they're prescribing.
Aimee (09:38):
Right.
Rebecca (09:38):
And there was, um, I dunno, two or four kind of
morphine level drugs in case youneeded it.
All of that, less than whateverit was like.
Aimee (09:49):
And, what was the patient experience with European
painkillers versus what hewould've gotten in the states?
Rebecca (09:59):
I can answer that a couple ways.
What do you, can you rephrasethat question?
Aimee (10:02):
Sure.
So, you know, Damien's had thesurgery before in the states,
presumably.
He also received painkillers aspart of recovery.
And had, you know, varyingdegrees of pain and management
of that pain throughout thehealing process.
There are, I'm assumingdifferent drugs, different
(10:23):
strengths, different kinds ofpain management medication here
in Europe because opioids.
Um, and what was like, what ishis experience healing here in
terms of the amount of painHe's.
He's undergoing in the efficacyof the pain management
medication here in Europe versuswhat he had in the us.
Rebecca (10:49):
I would say they've been surprisingly similar.
I feel like we got fewer overalldrugs in terms of the number of
drugs we brought home.
There was very clear instructionlike, don't use those high level
drugs unless you've alreadytried the other things and
you're still in that kind ofpain.
(11:10):
But they did say, particularlyif you're not sleeping through
the night, use the drugs becausethey're trying to give you
guidance on how to heal.
Um, I would say that at a toplevel, it feels very similar to
what we experienced in theUnited States, but it wasn't.
I don't know.
(11:30):
There's just, it didn't feellike they took the purpose of
drugs as seriously.
They're just like, yeah, take itif you need it.
In the United States, there'salso, I don't, I don't know if
this is true in the UnitedStates, but I've lived there a
long time and picked up a lot ofdrugs over my decades.
There was very clear labeling onthose high level drugs.
(11:53):
It says, if you don't use these,please return them to the
pharmacy.
Aimee (11:56):
Nice.
Rebecca (11:57):
really easy, not punitive, not nanny state
feeling.
There's, there's not thisfeeling of dictation about what
you should be doing.
There's kind of an assumptionthat you're a grownup.
Maybe that's what I'm trying toexpress, like here is clear
instruction so that you can takecare of yourself and we assume
you're going to do that.
(12:19):
It's the same thing with like ifyou see a big hole in the
sidewalk and then you fall intoit.
They're gonna be like, why'd youfall in the hole?
Look where you're going.
Not who can I sue?
Like, it's sort of related tothat
Aimee (12:32):
Yep.
Rebecca (12:33):
level of adulting.
So
Aimee (12:35):
Yep.
Rebecca (12:36):
obviously I'm trying to interpret a lot, but the facts
are, the drugs were prettysimilar.
I do feel like we got a fewfewer of them, and other than
that, they are all differentdrugs, which is a little weird
because there's a, there's acomfort that goes with knowing
your drugs.
Like Tylenol and codeine.
(12:57):
I know if I take that, whathappens because it's the drugs I
grew up with.
Whatever his high level drugwas, I don't remember at all.
We just don't know how he'llrespond to it.
And so it made him less likelyto take'em.
Aimee (13:11):
Mm.
Rebecca (13:12):
And we also have to remember that my, my husband has
a really weird ability.
To heal and doesn't, and he hasa really high pain tolerance, so
your results will vary ascompared to Damien, who is like
this healthy horse of a man.
Aimee (13:30):
Right, right.
Now, when you say there were fewleft with fewer drugs, do you
mean fewer numbers of differentkinds of drugs or fewer quantity
of the drugs that you wereprescribed?
Rebecca (13:41):
Fewer quantity of the drugs we were prescribed.
It actually felt like more drugsbecause we, they said, just pick
these up to go with these.
And it's kinda like cocktails,and I don't remember that being
as true in the United States,but literally fewer high level
drug pills at all.
Aimee (13:59):
Yep.
Awesome.
Rebecca (14:03):
Yeah,
Aimee (14:04):
Wow.
So he's two weeks out and you,you know, you've kind of talked
him up as being a little bionic,so how is he doing with, like,
how is he recovering?
Is he back to doing pushups or?
Rebecca (14:20):
he wants to, he's already don't, don't tell my
mother.
She'll be mad at me.
He's already cooking.
I try to rescue, rescue him whenI hear things happening in the
kitchen.
Um, he
Aimee (14:33):
And he is like, but I got this idea and I need to try it.
Rebecca (14:36):
well, he's just, he's stir crazy.
He's an active human and everypart of him is functioning
except for this one stupidshoulder.
So he's just trying to do a lotof things.
One hand did, um.
But no, he's healing upfantastically.
The funniest and cutest thing isas we walk around, we'll go out
to dinner, people will see himin his brace'cause his arm is
(14:59):
completely strapped to his body.
And we will get advice fromFrench people.
So this one, this one experiencewe had, he said, oh yeah, I had
exactly that same surgery aswhen I was paying the bill
inside.
Tell your husband that thekeynote is very important.
The keno, um, kinesthesiology,the pt.
And I was like, okay, I will.
(15:21):
You know, and we've hadinteractions like that many,
many times.
They do seem to take thephysical therapy more seriously
than we do too.
It's about getting healthy.
That's like all the arrows pointat, we're trying to help you be
well.
Aimee (15:39):
Right, and I, the major reason why people don't do PT in
the US is because it'sinconvenient and it takes time.
Rebecca (15:48):
And it's expensive because you don't know what's
covered.
And even if it is covered,you've got all your deductibles.
We are disincentivized in theUnited States to take care of
ourselves.
When you have a good socializedhealthcare system, the whole
system is incentivized to makesure you're not.
Spending money in stupid waysand keeping your population sick
(16:14):
is expensive.
So if your, if your system isfor profit, keeping them sick is
a good business decision.
If your system isn't keepingyour people healthy is a good
economic decision.
The math is so simple.
Aimee (16:32):
Yes, exactly.
Rebecca (16:34):
And this is the thing that keeps me going through my
Visa renewal, which I shouldalso update you on because I
want this.
Aimee (16:42):
yeah.
It makes me wanna scream, cry,and vomit all at the same time,
because I'm not gonna have ityet or maybe ever.
Rebecca (16:56):
I know and it's the one thing.
It is, I think truly the onething that makes me not wanna go
back to the states, almost allof the rest of the stuff that's
going on politically I careabout, but it doesn't at this
age and at my income bracket andstuff, a lot of it doesn't
affect affect me directly rightnow, but the healthcare stuff
(17:19):
does
Aimee (17:20):
Yeah,
Rebecca (17:21):
and it will.
Aimee (17:22):
more.
Rebecca (17:23):
More.
Yeah.
Every year that passes it willaffect me more.
Aimee (17:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I am, I have actually, you know,with, as, as of this recording,
it is still, uh, it is the endof April, 2025.
And so it's been a fun month inthe stock market for those of
you who are following along.
And I've been really gratefulthat I am, you know, 20, 25
(17:47):
years away from retiringbecause.
I'm not worried.
I'm like, you know, I'm, I'mkind of treating it as stocks
are on sale right now.
I should probably invest more atthis point in time because when
we look historically, likethings always bounce back within
five years.
Rebecca (18:06):
So if you have time, it's okay to take a breath, but
for people who don't, thiscrisis is real for them.
Aimee (18:14):
it absolutely.
And terrifying.
Yeah.
Rebecca (18:17):
Yeah.
So, yeah, so couple of weeks.
He will start.
Kinesthesiology, uh, physicaltherapy and he should be back to
fight and form.
I think he has to wear the bracefor six weeks total, but at
week, like three years,something he can stop strapping
his arm to him, uh, to himselfand yeah, pretty normal.
(18:40):
I mean, truly, that's the thingthat's been most remarkable
about this.
It has been a very wonderfulapples to apples comparison of
exactly the same surgery heexperienced in the United
States.
It's been nice to see how muchof it is the same.
It's not lower quality in anyregard.
In some ways, it's better.
(19:02):
I can't think of anything thathas been worse, aside from just
the fact that we just don't knowhow to navigate it and we don't
know what to expect.
So there's some nervousnessthere.
Everything they promised.
They being the people that saidyou should be an expat.
It's true So now I'm trying tostay an expat.
Damien, I think he got hisannouncement that his visa has
(19:26):
been renewed today, so he isdone and I am not.
Aimee (19:31):
alright.
And where are you at in thatprocess?
Rebecca (19:34):
All right.
Well, so last we spoke, I thinkI had told you I needed that
free mobile invoice.
I needed some kind of utilitybill that had my name and my
address in
Aimee (19:47):
Right, and the phone company was like, yeah, I can't
give you that.
Rebecca (19:50):
Well, to give credit to free mobile, and I'll tell you
the journey in a second.
They did it.
In fact, they did it in time.
Unfortunately, I didn't catchthe email in the three hour
remaining window, which is, I'mnot, I'm not beating myself up
with this, but I.
(20:11):
Maybe if I had seen the email atthe right moment and the lawyer
had also seen the email at theright moment, it could have all
happened, but it didn't.
But that is not free Mobile'sfault.
So what I had to do was.
Call free mobile.
And I think I told you theyweren't allowed to speak in
English.
Did I tell you
Aimee (20:31):
Yes, yes.
Rebecca (20:31):
Yes.
So I had to speak in French andthey told, well, the second
person, first person lied to me,so that's on them.
But the second person said, youhave to write a letter, send it
to this address, and they willtake care of it.
And I was like, there is no wayThat's true.
Now the problem is I don't havea printer.
(20:53):
We've talked about this problembefore on the podcast and the
timeline.
I'm like, how am I supposed toget this printed, signed, and
mailed quickly?
So my lawyer told me thatthere's this system where you
can send a certified letter inFrance digitally.
I'm like, that's cool.
(21:14):
You can send a certified letterin France digitally.
So I'm like.
Interesting.
And, uh, if anybody, I don'tremember the name of it, if
anybody needs that, shoot me amessage.
I will make sure to get you thatinformation.
So I did it.
The way it works is you pay forthe certified letter, which was
(21:36):
about five euro, five, sixbucks, and then you're
subscribed to a monthly thingfor 40 euro a month, and you can
send up to five certifiedletters a month.
So if you're needing to do this.
It's a remarkable system.
Like if I own a business here orsomething like that.
(21:56):
Now I don't have to do this veryoften, so clearly I don't wanna
pay$40 a month, 40 euro a month,but I'm like, this is important.
I can cancel it any time, evenif this whole thing costs me one
month's worth and the fee cool.
So I do it.
I didn't get, however, a noticethat said it had sent, I got
charged my credit card.
(22:17):
There was no notice it had sent.
So I said to the lawyer.
I don't have any proof thissent.
Can you please, please, please,please, please also print this
thing.
'cause I did sign it digitallyand mail it and my kind lawyer
said, yes, I'm out of town, butmy assistant will do it.
He did it.
Good thing because the systemdidn't work, it didn't send.
(22:40):
The next day I got an email fromthe certified letter people
saying We're so, so sorry forreasons beyond our control.
Certified mail.
Isn't sending today.
I, who knows why?
I don't know.
Aimee (22:52):
Oh my God.
Rebecca (22:53):
We're, we'll be delighted to refund you.
And I'm like, you think?
And um, I actually had to followup with them for the refund, but
it went really smoothly.
Aimee (23:04):
Good.
Rebecca (23:04):
the system is a good one, but it didn't work.
Which is sort of the story oflife in France, uh, in Europe.
So.
But like I said, they sent theletter and lo and behold, three
hours before my deadline, I didget an, I did get it.
(23:25):
It showed up in the system.
I just didn't check it in thoselast wee hours.
I had been checking it the wholerest of the day.
I went into client meetings.
It didn't happen, and so now Ihave to resubmit.
But it turns out, did I tell youwhat the fallout would be?
Because I did find out.
So I was so nervous.
(23:46):
I'm like, what's gonna happen?
Are they gonna send me back tothe United States?
Am I gonna have to go back tothe United States and apply for
a whole new visa?
Like I didn't, while my mindgoes to the darkest places, I
legitimately didn't know whatwould happen if we missed the
deadline.
And one thing I have noticedabout way too many people who
(24:07):
are providing professionalservices is they don't do a good
job of telling clients.
Things that will lower theirblood pressure right now, they
might be doing that on purpose.
Maybe they don't want the clientto take it too easy.
We want to incentivize ourclients to meet deadlines.
I get that.
(24:27):
However, I was really freakingout and it turns out, as far as
I understand from what they toldme, it's just going to be an HUN
180 euro reapplication fee.
Aimee (24:39):
Oh,
Rebecca (24:39):
I'm like, take my money.
That's it.
I was picturing myself deported.
Aimee (24:45):
you don't even have to resubmit everything.
Rebecca (24:48):
Um, you kind of do, but yeah, so I do, I have to get all
of my fresh, three months ofbank statements.
I had to get a new e photo,which is an electronic system
that they have for, uh, photosfor your visas and driver's
license and stuff here.
Which you can get in the kiosks,in the metros, like it's a whole
(25:09):
easy system.
So I have to resubmit threemonths of bank statements.
My e photo, you have to signthis Republican contract, which
basically says I promised tobehave myself while allowed to
be here in France and ba obeythe rules of France.
Um, like a light version of whatyou would say if you were trying
to become a citizen, like yes,this is my
Aimee (25:31):
right.
Rebecca (25:33):
Um.
And then maybe one otherdocument that I can't remember
right now.
So pretty straightforward andnow I'm just waiting'cause they
have all my stuff again.
Aimee (25:44):
But now you, they have all your stuff and it's
submitted and you're not, you'rejust waiting for the approval to
come in, which is fantastic.
Rebecca (25:51):
Yes.
And same on the cart.
Vital.
That one I'm not as confidenton.
I resubmitted my proof oflodging stuff my landlord isn't.
Um.
Think super helpful with this.
So we've had three landlords inthe time we've been here.
The first one was so, so easy towork with and I think it's in
(26:13):
part because he is Chineseliving in France.
So I suspect, yeah.
Aimee (26:19):
And if he was born and raised in France, then he's got
family members who have livedthrough it.
And so he knows stories.
Rebecca (26:25):
Yeah, and I never met him personally, so I'm not sure
what generation he is, but Iknow that he was renting out his
apartment'cause he was goingback to China to get married.
So clearly he is crossing twocultures.
Aimee (26:36):
Yeah.
Yep.
Rebecca (26:38):
Our second person was between visas, so it didn't
matter.
This one, it's partly weirdbecause her parents own.
The place, place and then allthe utility bills are in her
name.
The visa people want all ofthese things to align.
So not only are none of thebills in my name, they're
(26:58):
nodding all even and thelandlord's name.
So they wanted a deed and mylandlord was like, no, I'm not
comfortable with that andthere's nothing I can do.
So I did what I could and we'llsee what happens.
Aimee (27:16):
And you're moving again when?
Rebecca (27:18):
We leave this address at the end of June, so April,
may, June, so two and a half.
Just under two and a halfmonths.
Aimee (27:27):
Yep.
Rebecca (27:28):
Then, yeah, this is actually a problem.
We have a really nice guardianhere.
That's the person who takes careof the buildings.
We're hoping to ask her.
She speaks no English.
We're hoping to ask her inFrench if.
For us to hold onto it, we'regonna ask the landlord the same
(27:49):
thing.
Um, but we won't really have apermanent address again until we
come back in September.
Aimee (27:57):
Oh, September.
Wow.
Rebecca (27:59):
Yeah.
So do we, we can't change theaddresses with these systems
until we have a new address.
If we go ahead and figure outwhere we're gonna be living in
September now, do we give thataddress?
To all these places now, like asI, as I said a couple episodes
(28:19):
ago, my biggest advice toanybody following in my
footsteps is choose one addressand stick with it.
'cause I have, we havecomplicated our lives so much by
these choices.
Aimee (28:34):
Yeah.
We submitted for our Visaapplication when we were in that
process and we were, um,preparing to submit from the
United States.
We used the address of ourAirbnb.
You know, two months before wehad even arrived in Spain.
So if you have an address, Irecommend and you can get all
(28:58):
that paperwork together, totallydo it before you're there
because
Rebecca (29:01):
But it depends on the landlord too.
Like if they get mail in ourname, they obviously need to not
throw it away.
And you know, Airbnbs.
Sometimes they're turning peopleover so much they don't even
check the mail or it's,
Aimee (29:16):
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, it depends on who theperson is, right?
But if you submit all of thatpaperwork like two or three
weeks before you're there, it'snot gonna show up before you do.
Rebecca (29:26):
and even if it does, you can say, Hey, I never got
it.
I need it resent.
And it's just another example ofthe molasses slow experience of
being an expat.
What's the next step?
What are the 17 steps that areactually part of that next step?
And you can't really think pastthat step because you just don't
(29:49):
have the mental, I don't havethe mental capacity for it.
Aimee (29:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, when you thinkabout everything that we've
spoken about today, the, thehigh of private nurses coming to
your home to help you recoverfrom surgery that was insanely
cheap and the low of this wholesnafu with Visa re applications.
(30:12):
What sort of advice or takeawaywould you offer our listeners?
Rebecca (30:17):
I guess it's the same advice I would offer myself.
Keep your eye on what you'retrying to achieve.
If the North Star you're aimingat is strong enough.
It'll get you through everysingle step.
I wouldn't have the fortitude tokeep doing all of this if I
didn't know why I was doing allof this.
(30:40):
It's not easy.
So figure out whether you'reremodeling your home, speaking
as an interior designer, ormoving to another country or
getting married or whatever itis.
What is the outcome you want andlet that guide.
Every decision and let that helpyou pick yourself up off the
floor when you're having yourtantrum and meltdown and keep
(31:04):
going.
Aimee (31:06):
Beautiful.
That's excellent life advice
Rebecca (31:09):
Yeah, I should take it.
Aimee (31:11):
and I think with that I wanna bid our listeners and Asta
Lugo.
Rebecca (31:17):
Look at us staying on time.
A la prochaine.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Banla.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person, brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time.
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