July 7, 2025 • 35 mins
Where to find Aimee:
- Instagram: @vibrancenutrition
- Nutrition Coaching: vibrancenutrition.com
- Podcast on Nutrition: Blasphemous Nutrition
- Substack on Nomadic Life: NomadicNomMom
Where to find Rebecca:
- Instagram and her life in Paris: @beseriouslyhappy
- Podcast for Interior Design-preneurs: Stuff Interior Designers Need to Know
- Biz Coaching for Interior Designers: seriouslyhappy.com
- Book on Interior Design Psychology: Happy Starts at Home
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker (00:01):
Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Amy and
Rebecca, who each move from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats.
Amy to Spain and Rebecca toFrance.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure.
Encourage you to follow yourown, move abroad dreams, and
remind you that you're not alonewhen the going gets tough.
Enjoy.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (00:24):
Bon Jola, Rebecca,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bu (00:25):
Anjola Amy, I get to see you in human
form again in 12 days for ourCamino de Santiago walk.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (00:34):
It's so funny that now that we both
live in Europe in differentcountries within the European
Union, and we see each other nowmore than we have in P well,
since we were working together,right, in a professional
capacity.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (00:49):
the, the social.
Dynamics of being here inEurope, like the literal social
dynamics are so different fromthe United States.
My feeling is that people herein Europe still take the time to
see each other in corporealform.
It's, it's like in the air herethat you see each other and hang
out rather than not.
(01:12):
Does that make sense?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (01:14):
I what I'm, what my interpretation
of those words is that there ismore of a cultural, not just an
expectation, but a culturalknowing that humans socialize
face-to-face, and that is normaland appropriate.
And optimal.
(01:37):
And therefore what is donerather than.
My priority is efficiency.
My priority is covering mybills.
I'll see you when I see you.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (01:49):
You know, we, in COVID times,
everybody had to retreat totheir own spaces, whatever that
looked like.
And of course, here in Europe,the spaces, well, at least here
in Paris, the spaces are sosmall.
So I think in the United States,we have such relatively such big
homes and so much independentpersonal space that it was
really comfortable to desocialize ourselves and not undo
(02:15):
that.
I'm gonna call it damage becauseI.
While I don't actually oftenenjoy being around other humans,
I think it's really importantfor our mental wellbeing and
like the fact that the houseshere are just too small to
squirrel yourself away in longterm, forces you to be
healthier.
(02:37):
In yet another way that I don'tfeel in the United States.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (02:41):
That's an interesting point that I
don't necessarily agree with,but here in Spain it's uh, the
houses are too dark to just beinside all the time.
And even when you have all thelights on, like it's just not, I
mean, you're in Spain, why wouldyou be inside when you can go
outside?
Because it's Spain and obviouslya native born Spaniard probably
(03:05):
doesn't quite have that same.
Um, novelty stepping outsidethat I do as an American, but
what I have heard is that yeah,Spanish apartments, Spanish
homes are too dark, too cold,too and also too small, right to
just kind of sequester in.
That said, I think introverts.
(03:29):
Found it easy to sequesterthemselves in their home and not
go out and, you know, haven'treally reestablished
socializing.
But I don't think that that istypical human behavior.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (03:46):
Wait, did you just call all of us
introverts, non-typical humans?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (03:51):
I mean, in the grand scheme of
things, we are not like.
Um, I think lions don't hang outwith each other unless it's to
breed or maybe to, I think evenhunting.
They're solitary, right?
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (04:06):
I think that depends on the
gender, but that's really not
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (04:08):
Hmm.
Yeah, I think you're right.
But humans are, humans aresocial animals.
We have evolved and beensuccessful in our evolution
because we are social creaturesand we work together and utilize
the sum of our resources forsuccess.
So I think, you know, introvert,extrovert personalities aside,
because I don't think being anintrovert changes this.
(04:33):
But we need each other and we dobest with one another in a
community, kind of smallcommunity kind of setting.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (04:43):
and I think what COVID did, at least
for me, was really highlightedthat even though I'm fairly, I'm
kind of an ambivert, I am morean introvert, which always
surprises people because I havea fairly outgoing personality
when I'm social, but they saythat to really identify which
(05:03):
one you are, it's how yourecharge.
So being social is a draining ofmy battery.
I have a great time, but I wannago back to my charger, which is
my home.
Um, the other thing I wanna goback to you saying it's dark.
'cause one of the big thingsthat we really noticed when we
moved here and even before that.
(05:26):
Is that the US homes use atremendous amount of electricity
to be lit to daylight levels.
And when we first moved here, Ialways wanted to turn on more
and more and more lights, andI've gotten more acco accustomed
to it being dimmer inside of ourhome and that that's not where
(05:47):
it's supposed to be.
Daylight.
Daylight is outside.
But it's been an incrementalchange because when you brought
that up, I was like, oh yeah, Iremember how dark it felt when I
first moved here.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (06:00):
Yeah.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi12 (06:03):
So we're gonna spend 10 days
outside basically when I see youin human form, because we're
going to be walking for 72miles, I believe.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (06:13):
Is it 72?
I thought it was a hundred, ormaybe it's a hundred kilometers.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (06:16):
the kilometers.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (06:17):
Okay.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi12 (06:18):
So how are you feeling about it?
This walk,
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (06:22):
Well in the moment, given that you've
just revealed the nature of yourintroversion and the fact that
you don't like people, I feelreally honored that you're
willing to spend 10 days with me
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bu (06:35):
that's a, that's a real thing.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (06:38):
yeah.
I think I realize now more thanmagnitude of how much you must
actually like me, or at leastyou hate me less than most.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (06:47):
I find you more tolerable.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22 (06:49):
Exactly.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (06:52):
I actually have come to realize
that for me, the mark of what Iwould consider a good friend,
because I've spent a lot of mylife evaluating whether I am a
good friend.
Um.
It's that feeling that you don'thave to be anything
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (07:11):
Yeah.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bu (07:12):
you're with somebody else.
I don't have to be, I can behappy, I could be sad, I could
be anything with you.
You are an example of this kindof friend and I have a lot of
people I enjoy spending timewith, but it is that battery
draining feeling.
And while I wouldn't, I don'tknow that I would say anybody
(07:32):
but my husband.
Fills my battery.
In terms of the human, thepeople I could consider good
friends are at least neutral interms of the energy output.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (07:44):
They don't deplete?
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (07:46):
I can't believe I'm saying this.
It makes me sound so roboticlike,
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (07:50):
I
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (07:50):
I need you to charge me.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (07:53):
No.
No.
I don't think it's that at all.
And I would be really surprisedif anybody held judgment for
that, because that seems we allhave relationship.
Hopefully we all haverelationships with people who
feed us.
Who nurture us, who nourish us.
You're describing it in arobotic way, but there are so
(08:15):
many other words that you coulduse that would effectively mean
the same thing that aren't asmechanical.
Right?
We have people in relationshipsthat feed us, that nourish us,
that refill our cup.
We have, you know, interactionswhich are neutral.
They neither fill nor depleteus.
(08:36):
And then we all know thosepeople, and there's a word for
them now, energy vampires whosuck the life out of us.
So I think what you'redescribing is something that
probably every listener cantotally relate to.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest, (08:50):
Although it does make me laugh'cause as
you describe it, I'm like Yeah,but some things nourish you like
kale where you're like,afterwards you're like, I'm
really glad I had that salad.
But you don't go into the saladgoing, this is going to be a
great salad.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (09:03):
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (09:05):
And I think a lot of my friends,
honestly, my good friends, likeyou have tolerated me through.
Thinking, Ugh, more salad.
And then after a while I'm like,wow, I actually really enjoy
that experience of being social.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (09:18):
That tracks because my clients who
come in and start off saying, ohGod, more vegetables, that many
vegetables in, you know, threeto five weeks.
They're like, I'm cravingvegetables.
What have you done to me?
So it tracks,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (09:33):
No, it actually really does, and it
goes back to the beginning ofthis conversation where you can
basically lose the habit.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (09:41):
Hmm.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,B (09:42):
Muscles for running or for being social
or for interviewing for a job orfor eating vegetables, and what
we replace those things withdoesn't tend to be nourishing.
It tends to be quick fix sugarsin all those categories, and it
can be really hard to build upthose good habits of putting
(10:03):
clothes on and going out for theevening again.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (10:07):
It's true.
It is true.
You know, a.
A body at rest stays at rest,and a, a body in action, you
know, is more likely to stay inaction.
Yeah.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (10:18):
but I am curious about this walk and
my husband's main concern for meis that there'll be a, a whiner
on the route.
Somebody who just won't stopcomplaining, um, which could be
any of us.
You never know who's gonna havethe, the blues.
I don't know if I will be.
A talker on the trail because Iam a talker or if I will wanna
(10:43):
be very quiet and meditative.
So those are the things, asidefrom worrying about the weather
and if I have the right shoes,it's more, I'm really curious
how the experience is gonnaunfold from the perspective of
an inner experience versus asocial experience.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (10:59):
I haven't given that much of any
thought at all.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,B (11:02):
Really?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (11:03):
Yeah.
Um, there, what, there's like 10of us that are going,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (11:07):
And
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (11:08):
you're the only.
You're the only one I know.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (11:10):
yeah.
And I technically only know youand our friend Kelly, who you
will meet, who listens to ustalk all the time.
So Hi guys.
We're talking about you.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (11:21):
And actually, by the time this airs,
I will have met her in person.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (11:24):
It'll be long since over.
Yeah.
We'll all befriend.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (11:28):
yeah, yeah.
I haven't given, I haven't giventhe group dynamic very much
consideration.
I.
Because in my imagination, we'regoing to have different paces,
different speeds, differentintentions for all of it.
And I think there will be, wewill just sort of naturally
break into the folks who arelike, the goal is, you know, the
(11:49):
goal is 14 miles.
We're going, let's go, boom.
And they're treating it almostas like a race or a mission.
And there will be those who arewant, who are like, I'm here for
a very intensive pur for a veryintentional purpose.
I'm going to drop in and I'mgonna do my thing.
And they will tend to probablyremove themselves from the
group.
And so my, in my imagination, wewould just end up gravitating
(12:12):
towards or away from whateverour respective energies are and
that it wouldn't necessarily be.
A big deal.
I never considered a whiner.
That's, um, makes me glad I'mrooming with you.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (12:32):
What if I'm the one?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (12:34):
What if you're the whiner?
Okay.
Okay.
How would you like me torespond?
Because I, I'm, I'm assuming,I'm, I'm making the assumption
that you don't want to be thewhiner, but you may fall into
whining.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (12:48):
I don't actually think I will be.
I.
There are things I need to workon in myself.
And it's interesting having thisconversation'cause I'm aware
that part of why I am thinkingso much about the interpersonal
dynamics is because one of thethings that is changing for me
in my life right now is thatfeeling of being responsible for
everybody else's experience.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (13:11):
Can I just say I'm so thrilled that
you are revisiting this andconsidering a change.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (13:15):
This is huge for me.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (13:17):
It is.
It really is.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (13:19):
Um.
And so and so to hear you say,oh yeah, that hasn't even
crossed my mind.
Makes sense'cause this is notsomething that you obsess about.
But I worked so hard to see theworld through optimistic eyes
back in my teens when I changedliterally my verbal habits.
(13:40):
So I think, I think this is oneof the things.
That won't show up in me.
And if it does, I would want mydear friend Amy, to say to me,
is that really the experienceyou wanna have on this trip?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (13:55):
Okay, I can do that.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (13:57):
thing is when you fall, or at least
when I fall into negativeemotions, it's hard to climb
back out of them.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (14:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (14:09):
And I think it's partly because I
end up beating myself up.
About crying in the first place.
And so now I'm like piling badon top of bad and, and you dig
that hole deeper.
It's such a
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (14:22):
Right.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,B (14:24):
.spiral
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (14:25):
It's like as soon as the tears fall,
you invite the little, ittybitty shitty committee to come
in and have a seat, and thenjust like rail into you.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (14:33):
Yeah.
You'll be like, Rebecca, you areliving in Paris and the sun is
shining and the birds aresinging and this is what we're
doing.
We're crying right now.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (14:42):
I have had that conversation with
myself this past week too.
I wonder, you know, I'm notsuper into astrology at all.
You know, I don't like take itvery seriously.
But there are times, and I willsay the past 10 days or so, my
clients myself, um.
(15:02):
Some family members like arejust having fucking hard times
and people are like uh, likefall.
Like fall.
I, when I say falling apart, Imean it in, in like the, in the,
this necessitates interventionlevel of falling apart.
Um.
(15:23):
Not anybody in my, in my circleof people that I know, but I
know people who know people,right?
For what?
For in which this is happening.
And it, it's feels very strongand acute and all at once in the
last week.
Um, last week for me washorrible.
I had a horrible week last week.
No motivation to do anything.
No desire, just the sort oflike, my life is over kind of
(15:45):
thing.
Why do I, oh, I mean.
My career is gonna be over herepretty soon.
Like I'm gonna have
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (15:52):
you haven't really talked about
that.
If you wanna just throw that onour listeners,
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (15:58):
we're talking about El Camino,
Rebecca, we're not talking aboutme.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (16:03):
would you like
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (16:04):
can put a pin in that
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (16:06):
Okay.
So listeners, don't worry, Amy'sfine, but she might be facing
some life transitions, whichwe've alluded to in, I think a
previous
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (16:17):
Yeah, so previous episode that's
recently dropped live.
Yeah.
Um, you know, I, I did spend acouple days in bed just like,
what is the effing point?
And then I'm also like, Amy,you're in Spain.
It's beautiful outside.
When you do like, take all ofthe will of the universe to pull
(16:39):
yourself out of bed and go for arun.
Your runs are really fantasticright now.
Which I'm super, yeah, they'regreat.
They're great.
I'm performing really well withmy runs, which is something that
hasn't happened, um, in a while,especially given that I have not
trained this year, but I'm gonnago walk at a hundred kilometers.
(16:59):
Um, and, you know, I canobjectively look at all of the
tangible things in my life andbe like, why are you.
Why are you doing this toyourself?
Enjoy the moment that you're in.
And one message that kept comingback to me in the latter part of
(17:20):
the week last week, uh, thatreally helped out like different
ways that this sort of like kepthitting me.
It was, you choose your actions,you choose your life, you choose
your outlook.
You get to say how your lifegoes.
So it's just a matter of like,are you going to consciously
(17:44):
make the choices for the lifethat you want, or are you going
to lay here in bed being avictim of your fears?
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (17:53):
It's, I love that we're having this
conversation because I, I knoweverybody listening can identify
with this, the fact thatsometimes dark clouds just come
in over the sunshine and it'slike it's outta your control.
What is in your control is.
Learning to recognize it.
And for my, my mom gave me areally great phrase at one
point.
She said, feelings are not agood basis for decision making.
(18:17):
You know, have the feelings, butthey don't necessarily get to
dictate what happens next.
That was always really helpfulfor me.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (18:24):
100% and the feelings are often
stronger than the rationale, andit's easy to then let them call
the shots, but.
Yeah, but you gotta like, justbecause again, not to get too
political, but just because theloudest voice is saying
something doesn't mean it's trueor accurate.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (18:46):
Yeah, and sometimes it's very
seductive.
It can feel good to wallow inself-pity or whatever, decided
to show up that day, but thatdoesn't mean it's helping you.
Right.
And.
Another thing that I've reallybeen repeating to myself lately
is stop finding things to worryabout because things are so good
(19:08):
in my life right now.
Things aren't perfect andthere's some things that need to
continue growing, especiallyaround my business.
But in fact, in this moment inmy life, there's very little for
me to legitimately worry about.
So I need to choose to stop it,to cut it out.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (19:27):
You know what would be really fun
for me to watch you do?
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (19:30):
No.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (19:33):
If you started El Camino with a
kilogram of rocks in yourbackpack, and every time you let
a worry go and you decided youweren't gonna worry about it,
you left a rock on the trail.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (19:44):
I don't hate that idea.
So for the, for the listeners,this is apparently a common
thing to bring something or picksomething up at the beginning of
the root, and then somewherealong the root let it go when
you feel it.
I don't know, some catharsis hashappened and I really like that
idea.
Um, and I kind of love your spinon that for me, like more than
(20:08):
one thing, like truly loweringthat weight every mile that
passes.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (20:14):
Yeah, well, not every mile that
passes, but every time you shiftyour mindset and, and release
the worry, right, that youliterally, like, not just
release the worry internally.
But symbolically and literallytake a weight out of your
backpack in that rock and leaveit on the trail behind you.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (20:34):
Well, I really
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (20:35):
could be so freaking powerful.
And if you were my personaltraining client, I would be
like, guess what?
We're not walking.
We're rocking.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (20:44):
wait, are we rocking?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (20:46):
We're rocking.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (20:49):
I really, I do love that because I
do believe in physicalmanifestations of our choices,
that my whole thing withinterior design was, get the new
bedding or choose the new paintcolor so that you do see
something physical that sayssomething has changed.
There is the possibility ofsomething different in your
life.
And so this is just that sameconcept of.
(21:11):
Feeling, physically feelingsomething that you're trying to
change internally.
I think that's really brilliant,and I am not promising to do it
because that sounds like a lotof rocks.
But I also might do it becauset.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22 (21:27):
Awesome.
Yeah.
So go.
I mean, going back to likeconcerns and stuff, I, I haven't
been as worried about the groupdynamic.
I am a little worried that I toowon't get enough solo time, um,
because I am stepping into, I.
I am stepping into, uh, was notwhen I booked this trip, not at
all thinking about anythingother than great.
(21:50):
This was on the bucket list.
Here's, it's showing up.
We are gonna do this, otherwiseit won't happen.
But as things have developedover the last, eight months for
me, I, I do see it as kind of a,a spiritual pil pilgrimage for
me and a, a pilgrimage of, andI'm not, I'm not a religious
(22:12):
person, but a pilgrimage ofprayer for, you know, for some
of the things that are happeningin, in, in life right now for
people I care about.
So.
I don't know.
And again, I like, I don't knowhow that's gonna show up.
I don't know what to reallyexpect from it.
(22:33):
and I think somebody in theWhatsApp Camino group had said
that they had, someone hadstarted their El Camino thinking
that they were going to be sortof meditating on this one thing
and then, or healing this oneaspect of their life, and then
something else showed up thatthey weren't expecting.
And that was when they lefttheir rock,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bu (22:51):
that's right.
Mm-hmm.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (22:52):
Yeah.
So.
Who knows.
'cause the road will bring, whatthe road will bring.
But I do have, I do have a, athought and an intention and a,
a prayer that I'll be takingwith me, um, on, on travel.
And I, I don't want to treatthis as a solo trip where I am
(23:15):
just spending, you know, thewhole week thinking about that.
But I also don't want to getsidetracked and not.
Not have that be part of, partof this experience for me.
So, um, I'm actually going to becollecting rocks as part of,
part of the process, for whatI'm gonna be doing for myself.
(23:37):
My concerns have mostly beenlogistical because you know, I
have some of my colleagues thatI worked with in Seattle, we
used to do, you know, athleticthings together.
We're all kind of sporty ladies,and, uh, and I had messaged them
and, and said like, I'm gonnawalk.
(23:59):
The final a hundred of El Caminoin less than two weeks, and I am
in the worst shape that I havebeen in since 2020.
I have not done, like, myrunning miles are super low, or
no, not as low as they were inwhen I was Alaska, but my
running miles are low.
I've been working on rebuildingthem up and I haven't done
anything extra other than thatand the weight training that I
(24:19):
do.
So, um, but what I have beentelling myself is that.
Because I survived theEnchantments, I can do this.
Like if I can walk theenchantments mostly in stalking
feet, I can.
(24:42):
I got this.
And so, you know, I had texted,I texted my colleagues about
that and it was like.
You know, this is what I'mtelling myself, so I wanna let
you guys know,'cause one of themhad gone with me on the
Enchantments and bore witness tothat experience, uh, and she
responded and she was like,yeah, you're, you're totally
(25:03):
right.
You can do this.
No problem.
and I said, you know, I wouldn'texpect you to say anything less
because you are like an unhingedoptimist.
Like you're crazy optimistic allthe time.
And then, and then she respondedback and was like, I watched you
walk 15 miles in your socks overwhat is commonly considered the
(25:27):
hardest day hike in the entirestate.
Your Camino readiness is anobjective fact.
I was like, all right, I'm notgonna argue that.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (25:39):
Uh, yeah, and I'm just, I'm hearing
you, I'm hearing us.
Doubt ourselves in ways thatare, we just keep doing in all
kinds of different aspects ofour life.
Like, can I really do this?
I wish I were the kind of personthat could just believe in
myself without needing thatoutside encouragement, but maybe
none of us are that way.
Again, maybe that's why we needeach other.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (26:01):
I, I would argue that the current
president of the United Statesdoesn't need much, uh, external
opinion to believe in himself.
I think he's pretty, prettysolidly established in the, in
the self-confidence scale.
I.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (26:14):
But to be fair, we never know what's
going on in somebody else'spsyche because to be that
blustery usually is anindication that you're trying to
get that accolade that says,yes, you are good enough.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (26:26):
Yeah, you got me there.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (26:28):
Yeah, for me, the reason this was on
my bucket list is because I wantto see if I can do it.
Um, you know, I've, I've donevery, very, very long walks
before, but I've never done itmany days in a row.
So that's a very big differentthing and I like that it's
happening now because it feelslike a really lovely way to mark
(26:50):
going into my fifties.
You know, this year I turned 48.
I think I've got my yearscorrect.
And so I want to basicallyconnect with my body and
understand my body a little bitbetter.
I don't spend much timeconnected to my body.
That's a, that's
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (27:09):
Right.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (27:10):
lack in my life.
So what does it feel to beuncomfortable and still be okay?
These are things that I wannastart exploring because I think
it's part of aging of, um.
Being okay with your bodychanging, but also not letting
that be a limitation in living.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (27:31):
Right.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (27:33):
So, and that's not really about
being solo or with other people,except for that I want the quiet
space to be connecting with myown physical experience.
And I'm not really planning onbringing any podcasts or music
or anything, because I want.
This is a bit, I don't wanna putthis also not being a religious
(27:58):
person, it's funny to say that Iwant this to be an experience of
faith.
I don't wanna over bring, but Ialso want it to be an experience
of majesty and awesomeness.
Because for me, the mereexistence of myself on this
planet is
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (28:19):
It's a miracle.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (28:20):
Yeah.
In the, in a, in city living andin running my business and
literally just runningeverywhere.
I don't often pause to see thisand I don't want to miss it, and
I miss it way too often.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (28:39):
yeah, yeah.
I have, um, I do have confidencebecause of the enchantments.
I.
Which since nobody but you and Iknow what I'm talking about.
you can, you can look up theenchantments, in Washington
state on Google if you're soinclined.
(28:59):
But it's a 17, I think it's a 17mile day through hike.
So point to point, um, with areally wicked climb, scramble
really up a mountain.
Face, that's all rock and notreally secure rock.
There were some rocks that weresliding about and that that
happens after the first 5K.
(29:21):
So you kind of hike in about twoand a half, three miles and you
go up, I think it's a mile and ahalf up the mountain climbing,
and then it's, it's, you know,rolling fields and stuff.
A lot of it I didn't see'causeit was dark by time, what time
we got up and threw some stuff.
(29:41):
But, um.
It's, uh, I, I used a pair ofhiking boots, and this is an
excellent lesson for everybody.
I used a pair of hiking bootsthat were not new per se, but
that I had had for 15 years andhadn't used because they were
super, super robust, like Alpinehiking boots, and I just didn't.
(30:04):
Have any significant hikes thatwarranted wearing them, but they
were an expensive pair of bootsand so I never got rid of them
and I brought them out to wearthem.
And about a mile, mile and ahalf in I remembered, oh yeah.
One of the reasons I didn't wearthese is because they rub my
ankle the wrong way and theyaggravate a tendon on my right
(30:25):
ankle.
That, um, became debilitating.
By the time we finished thatscramble up as guard's pass, and
so the final, the final, yeah, Idon't know, 12, 15 miles or so.
I did much of it.
I did about half of it with oneshoe on and one shoe off because
I could go faster, and theneventually took both boots off
(30:48):
and hiked the last seven milesin my socks because I could go
one mile an hour at that pacerather than half a mile an hour.
I mean, the pain wasexcruciating,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (31:00):
Now, Dean, were you hiking into camp?
You must have been.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (31:04):
n no.
we car camped at the finish, andthen in the morning took a, a
shuttle bus that picks people upto the start,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (31:11):
Got it.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (31:13):
and then from the start, hiked,
hiked all the way through.
And I wasn't, I wasn't gravelyinjured.
It wasn't that I couldn't getout, it's just that I was.
Real, I was so slow thatteenagers wearing Converse
tennis shoes with their motherwho very likely had COVID I,
(31:33):
'cause this was in the kind ofearly days, um, beat me and beat
us out of the trail.
And, and so, because I wasn't.
I was mobile.
I didn't wanna call search andrescue.
It's like there's no reason forthat, and we would have to sit
and wait and it's getting coldbecause it's dark.
That seems like a bad idea.
(31:53):
So we just keep going.
Right?
We just keep going.
That is the answer.
It's the only reasonable,logical answer is we just keep
walking.
Kudos to Kristen for being likethe unhinged optimist who was
like, yeah, let's go for it.
All right, we got this, we cando this.
And you know, we, we made itthrough in 23 and a half hours.
(32:16):
Uh, we were not expecting totake that long, I think.
Yeah.
I think we had estimated that wewould be done in, in seven to
nine hours, I think is what ouroriginal guess was.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,B (32:29):
smokes.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (32:30):
Yeah.
I.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (32:31):
Yeah, I think you've got Camino.
I don't think it's gonna be aproblem.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (32:35):
But that was one hike in 1 24 hour
period.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (32:39):
It's the multiple thing.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (32:40):
it's the multiple days where I,
that's the only thing that makesme nervous, but I do trust that
I have the grit
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (32:47):
Yeah.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (32:48):
to do it.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (32:49):
Yeah, and I think that's really what
defines us as people.
We are, we do belong to a tribethat has grit.
We will see it through, maybenot as fast as we hoped,
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (33:01):
And we may come out with some scars
on the other side, but
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bu (33:05):
pretty sure it's called life.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (33:07):
we will get through
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (33:08):
Yeah.
You know, I wasn't actually verynervous until last week's
storms, so we had huge hailstorms here in Paris.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (33:19):
really
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (33:19):
Yeah, like break hail, and it was the
size of ice cubes out of thefreezer.
They were really big.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228 (33:26):
smokes.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (33:27):
And um, and then you had the huge
rain down in Gerona.
And so I've been thinking thewhole time, okay, I gotta
prepare for heat, I gottaprepare for dry.
And all of a sudden I'm like, Igotta prepare for monsoon.
And the, and it's just thatreminder.
You can't fully prepare.
You've got to trust that it willtake care of itself.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (33:52):
Yeah.
I did order lightweight rainpants.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (33:55):
I do.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (33:56):
I did.
Yeah.
Um, and I did get a rain jacketbecause I looked at the 10 day
forecast out in Galicia, and itis rain and even like some
thunderstorms in the very early,like the first day or so that
we're going out.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest, (34:12):
thunder.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (34:14):
I mean, it is a long forecast out,
so of course it could totallychange in a heartbeat.
But I definitely am anticipatinggiven how the weather has been
in Catalonia this spring, that Ishould not think that it's going
(34:34):
to be me the entire time
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (34:35):
Yeah.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (34:36):
I.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (34:37):
Well, in a couple of episodes we'll be
able to tell everybody how itwent.
I dunno if we'll record on thetrail.
I doubt it.
Um, so stay tuned everybody tohow our feet turned out and how
our turned out.
Two different kinds of
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (34:56):
Until then.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person, brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time.
Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Amy and
Rebecca, who each move from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats.
Amy to Spain and Rebecca toFrance.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure.
Encourage you to follow yourown, move abroad dreams, and
remind you that you're not alonewhen the going gets tough.
Enjoy.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (00:24):
Bon Jola, Rebecca,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bu (00:25):
Anjola Amy, I get to see you in human
form again in 12 days for ourCamino de Santiago walk.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (00:34):
It's so funny that now that we both
live in Europe in differentcountries within the European
Union, and we see each other nowmore than we have in P well,
since we were working together,right, in a professional
capacity.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (00:49):
the, the social.
Dynamics of being here inEurope, like the literal social
dynamics are so different fromthe United States.
My feeling is that people herein Europe still take the time to
see each other in corporealform.
It's, it's like in the air herethat you see each other and hang
out rather than not.
(01:12):
Does that make sense?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (01:14):
I what I'm, what my interpretation
of those words is that there ismore of a cultural, not just an
expectation, but a culturalknowing that humans socialize
face-to-face, and that is normaland appropriate.
And optimal.
(01:37):
And therefore what is donerather than.
My priority is efficiency.
My priority is covering mybills.
I'll see you when I see you.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (01:49):
You know, we, in COVID times,
everybody had to retreat totheir own spaces, whatever that
looked like.
And of course, here in Europe,the spaces, well, at least here
in Paris, the spaces are sosmall.
So I think in the United States,we have such relatively such big
homes and so much independentpersonal space that it was
really comfortable to desocialize ourselves and not undo
(02:15):
that.
I'm gonna call it damage becauseI.
While I don't actually oftenenjoy being around other humans,
I think it's really importantfor our mental wellbeing and
like the fact that the houseshere are just too small to
squirrel yourself away in longterm, forces you to be
healthier.
(02:37):
In yet another way that I don'tfeel in the United States.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (02:41):
That's an interesting point that I
don't necessarily agree with,but here in Spain it's uh, the
houses are too dark to just beinside all the time.
And even when you have all thelights on, like it's just not, I
mean, you're in Spain, why wouldyou be inside when you can go
outside?
Because it's Spain and obviouslya native born Spaniard probably
(03:05):
doesn't quite have that same.
Um, novelty stepping outsidethat I do as an American, but
what I have heard is that yeah,Spanish apartments, Spanish
homes are too dark, too cold,too and also too small, right to
just kind of sequester in.
That said, I think introverts.
(03:29):
Found it easy to sequesterthemselves in their home and not
go out and, you know, haven'treally reestablished
socializing.
But I don't think that that istypical human behavior.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (03:46):
Wait, did you just call all of us
introverts, non-typical humans?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (03:51):
I mean, in the grand scheme of
things, we are not like.
Um, I think lions don't hang outwith each other unless it's to
breed or maybe to, I think evenhunting.
They're solitary, right?
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (04:06):
I think that depends on the
gender, but that's really not
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (04:08):
Hmm.
Yeah, I think you're right.
But humans are, humans aresocial animals.
We have evolved and beensuccessful in our evolution
because we are social creaturesand we work together and utilize
the sum of our resources forsuccess.
So I think, you know, introvert,extrovert personalities aside,
because I don't think being anintrovert changes this.
(04:33):
But we need each other and we dobest with one another in a
community, kind of smallcommunity kind of setting.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (04:43):
and I think what COVID did, at least
for me, was really highlightedthat even though I'm fairly, I'm
kind of an ambivert, I am morean introvert, which always
surprises people because I havea fairly outgoing personality
when I'm social, but they saythat to really identify which
(05:03):
one you are, it's how yourecharge.
So being social is a draining ofmy battery.
I have a great time, but I wannago back to my charger, which is
my home.
Um, the other thing I wanna goback to you saying it's dark.
'cause one of the big thingsthat we really noticed when we
moved here and even before that.
(05:26):
Is that the US homes use atremendous amount of electricity
to be lit to daylight levels.
And when we first moved here, Ialways wanted to turn on more
and more and more lights, andI've gotten more acco accustomed
to it being dimmer inside of ourhome and that that's not where
(05:47):
it's supposed to be.
Daylight.
Daylight is outside.
But it's been an incrementalchange because when you brought
that up, I was like, oh yeah, Iremember how dark it felt when I
first moved here.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (06:00):
Yeah.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi12 (06:03):
So we're gonna spend 10 days
outside basically when I see youin human form, because we're
going to be walking for 72miles, I believe.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (06:13):
Is it 72?
I thought it was a hundred, ormaybe it's a hundred kilometers.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (06:16):
the kilometers.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (06:17):
Okay.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi12 (06:18):
So how are you feeling about it?
This walk,
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (06:22):
Well in the moment, given that you've
just revealed the nature of yourintroversion and the fact that
you don't like people, I feelreally honored that you're
willing to spend 10 days with me
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bu (06:35):
that's a, that's a real thing.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (06:38):
yeah.
I think I realize now more thanmagnitude of how much you must
actually like me, or at leastyou hate me less than most.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (06:47):
I find you more tolerable.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22 (06:49):
Exactly.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (06:52):
I actually have come to realize
that for me, the mark of what Iwould consider a good friend,
because I've spent a lot of mylife evaluating whether I am a
good friend.
Um.
It's that feeling that you don'thave to be anything
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (07:11):
Yeah.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bu (07:12):
you're with somebody else.
I don't have to be, I can behappy, I could be sad, I could
be anything with you.
You are an example of this kindof friend and I have a lot of
people I enjoy spending timewith, but it is that battery
draining feeling.
And while I wouldn't, I don'tknow that I would say anybody
(07:32):
but my husband.
Fills my battery.
In terms of the human, thepeople I could consider good
friends are at least neutral interms of the energy output.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (07:44):
They don't deplete?
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (07:46):
I can't believe I'm saying this.
It makes me sound so roboticlike,
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (07:50):
I
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (07:50):
I need you to charge me.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (07:53):
No.
No.
I don't think it's that at all.
And I would be really surprisedif anybody held judgment for
that, because that seems we allhave relationship.
Hopefully we all haverelationships with people who
feed us.
Who nurture us, who nourish us.
You're describing it in arobotic way, but there are so
(08:15):
many other words that you coulduse that would effectively mean
the same thing that aren't asmechanical.
Right?
We have people in relationshipsthat feed us, that nourish us,
that refill our cup.
We have, you know, interactionswhich are neutral.
They neither fill nor depleteus.
(08:36):
And then we all know thosepeople, and there's a word for
them now, energy vampires whosuck the life out of us.
So I think what you'redescribing is something that
probably every listener cantotally relate to.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest, (08:50):
Although it does make me laugh'cause as
you describe it, I'm like Yeah,but some things nourish you like
kale where you're like,afterwards you're like, I'm
really glad I had that salad.
But you don't go into the saladgoing, this is going to be a
great salad.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (09:03):
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (09:05):
And I think a lot of my friends,
honestly, my good friends, likeyou have tolerated me through.
Thinking, Ugh, more salad.
And then after a while I'm like,wow, I actually really enjoy
that experience of being social.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (09:18):
That tracks because my clients who
come in and start off saying, ohGod, more vegetables, that many
vegetables in, you know, threeto five weeks.
They're like, I'm cravingvegetables.
What have you done to me?
So it tracks,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (09:33):
No, it actually really does, and it
goes back to the beginning ofthis conversation where you can
basically lose the habit.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (09:41):
Hmm.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,B (09:42):
Muscles for running or for being social
or for interviewing for a job orfor eating vegetables, and what
we replace those things withdoesn't tend to be nourishing.
It tends to be quick fix sugarsin all those categories, and it
can be really hard to build upthose good habits of putting
(10:03):
clothes on and going out for theevening again.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (10:07):
It's true.
It is true.
You know, a.
A body at rest stays at rest,and a, a body in action, you
know, is more likely to stay inaction.
Yeah.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (10:18):
but I am curious about this walk and
my husband's main concern for meis that there'll be a, a whiner
on the route.
Somebody who just won't stopcomplaining, um, which could be
any of us.
You never know who's gonna havethe, the blues.
I don't know if I will be.
A talker on the trail because Iam a talker or if I will wanna
(10:43):
be very quiet and meditative.
So those are the things, asidefrom worrying about the weather
and if I have the right shoes,it's more, I'm really curious
how the experience is gonnaunfold from the perspective of
an inner experience versus asocial experience.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (10:59):
I haven't given that much of any
thought at all.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,B (11:02):
Really?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (11:03):
Yeah.
Um, there, what, there's like 10of us that are going,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (11:07):
And
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (11:08):
you're the only.
You're the only one I know.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (11:10):
yeah.
And I technically only know youand our friend Kelly, who you
will meet, who listens to ustalk all the time.
So Hi guys.
We're talking about you.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (11:21):
And actually, by the time this airs,
I will have met her in person.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (11:24):
It'll be long since over.
Yeah.
We'll all befriend.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (11:28):
yeah, yeah.
I haven't given, I haven't giventhe group dynamic very much
consideration.
I.
Because in my imagination, we'regoing to have different paces,
different speeds, differentintentions for all of it.
And I think there will be, wewill just sort of naturally
break into the folks who arelike, the goal is, you know, the
(11:49):
goal is 14 miles.
We're going, let's go, boom.
And they're treating it almostas like a race or a mission.
And there will be those who arewant, who are like, I'm here for
a very intensive pur for a veryintentional purpose.
I'm going to drop in and I'mgonna do my thing.
And they will tend to probablyremove themselves from the
group.
And so my, in my imagination, wewould just end up gravitating
(12:12):
towards or away from whateverour respective energies are and
that it wouldn't necessarily be.
A big deal.
I never considered a whiner.
That's, um, makes me glad I'mrooming with you.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (12:32):
What if I'm the one?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (12:34):
What if you're the whiner?
Okay.
Okay.
How would you like me torespond?
Because I, I'm, I'm assuming,I'm, I'm making the assumption
that you don't want to be thewhiner, but you may fall into
whining.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (12:48):
I don't actually think I will be.
I.
There are things I need to workon in myself.
And it's interesting having thisconversation'cause I'm aware
that part of why I am thinkingso much about the interpersonal
dynamics is because one of thethings that is changing for me
in my life right now is thatfeeling of being responsible for
everybody else's experience.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (13:11):
Can I just say I'm so thrilled that
you are revisiting this andconsidering a change.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (13:15):
This is huge for me.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (13:17):
It is.
It really is.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (13:19):
Um.
And so and so to hear you say,oh yeah, that hasn't even
crossed my mind.
Makes sense'cause this is notsomething that you obsess about.
But I worked so hard to see theworld through optimistic eyes
back in my teens when I changedliterally my verbal habits.
(13:40):
So I think, I think this is oneof the things.
That won't show up in me.
And if it does, I would want mydear friend Amy, to say to me,
is that really the experienceyou wanna have on this trip?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (13:55):
Okay, I can do that.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (13:57):
thing is when you fall, or at least
when I fall into negativeemotions, it's hard to climb
back out of them.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (14:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (14:09):
And I think it's partly because I
end up beating myself up.
About crying in the first place.
And so now I'm like piling badon top of bad and, and you dig
that hole deeper.
It's such a
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (14:22):
Right.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,B (14:24):
.spiral
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (14:25):
It's like as soon as the tears fall,
you invite the little, ittybitty shitty committee to come
in and have a seat, and thenjust like rail into you.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (14:33):
Yeah.
You'll be like, Rebecca, you areliving in Paris and the sun is
shining and the birds aresinging and this is what we're
doing.
We're crying right now.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (14:42):
I have had that conversation with
myself this past week too.
I wonder, you know, I'm notsuper into astrology at all.
You know, I don't like take itvery seriously.
But there are times, and I willsay the past 10 days or so, my
clients myself, um.
(15:02):
Some family members like arejust having fucking hard times
and people are like uh, likefall.
Like fall.
I, when I say falling apart, Imean it in, in like the, in the,
this necessitates interventionlevel of falling apart.
Um.
(15:23):
Not anybody in my, in my circleof people that I know, but I
know people who know people,right?
For what?
For in which this is happening.
And it, it's feels very strongand acute and all at once in the
last week.
Um, last week for me washorrible.
I had a horrible week last week.
No motivation to do anything.
No desire, just the sort oflike, my life is over kind of
(15:45):
thing.
Why do I, oh, I mean.
My career is gonna be over herepretty soon.
Like I'm gonna have
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (15:52):
you haven't really talked about
that.
If you wanna just throw that onour listeners,
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (15:58):
we're talking about El Camino,
Rebecca, we're not talking aboutme.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (16:03):
would you like
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (16:04):
can put a pin in that
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (16:06):
Okay.
So listeners, don't worry, Amy'sfine, but she might be facing
some life transitions, whichwe've alluded to in, I think a
previous
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (16:17):
Yeah, so previous episode that's
recently dropped live.
Yeah.
Um, you know, I, I did spend acouple days in bed just like,
what is the effing point?
And then I'm also like, Amy,you're in Spain.
It's beautiful outside.
When you do like, take all ofthe will of the universe to pull
(16:39):
yourself out of bed and go for arun.
Your runs are really fantasticright now.
Which I'm super, yeah, they'regreat.
They're great.
I'm performing really well withmy runs, which is something that
hasn't happened, um, in a while,especially given that I have not
trained this year, but I'm gonnago walk at a hundred kilometers.
(16:59):
Um, and, you know, I canobjectively look at all of the
tangible things in my life andbe like, why are you.
Why are you doing this toyourself?
Enjoy the moment that you're in.
And one message that kept comingback to me in the latter part of
(17:20):
the week last week, uh, thatreally helped out like different
ways that this sort of like kepthitting me.
It was, you choose your actions,you choose your life, you choose
your outlook.
You get to say how your lifegoes.
So it's just a matter of like,are you going to consciously
(17:44):
make the choices for the lifethat you want, or are you going
to lay here in bed being avictim of your fears?
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (17:53):
It's, I love that we're having this
conversation because I, I knoweverybody listening can identify
with this, the fact thatsometimes dark clouds just come
in over the sunshine and it'slike it's outta your control.
What is in your control is.
Learning to recognize it.
And for my, my mom gave me areally great phrase at one
point.
She said, feelings are not agood basis for decision making.
(18:17):
You know, have the feelings, butthey don't necessarily get to
dictate what happens next.
That was always really helpfulfor me.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (18:24):
100% and the feelings are often
stronger than the rationale, andit's easy to then let them call
the shots, but.
Yeah, but you gotta like, justbecause again, not to get too
political, but just because theloudest voice is saying
something doesn't mean it's trueor accurate.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (18:46):
Yeah, and sometimes it's very
seductive.
It can feel good to wallow inself-pity or whatever, decided
to show up that day, but thatdoesn't mean it's helping you.
Right.
And.
Another thing that I've reallybeen repeating to myself lately
is stop finding things to worryabout because things are so good
(19:08):
in my life right now.
Things aren't perfect andthere's some things that need to
continue growing, especiallyaround my business.
But in fact, in this moment inmy life, there's very little for
me to legitimately worry about.
So I need to choose to stop it,to cut it out.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (19:27):
You know what would be really fun
for me to watch you do?
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (19:30):
No.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (19:33):
If you started El Camino with a
kilogram of rocks in yourbackpack, and every time you let
a worry go and you decided youweren't gonna worry about it,
you left a rock on the trail.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (19:44):
I don't hate that idea.
So for the, for the listeners,this is apparently a common
thing to bring something or picksomething up at the beginning of
the root, and then somewherealong the root let it go when
you feel it.
I don't know, some catharsis hashappened and I really like that
idea.
Um, and I kind of love your spinon that for me, like more than
(20:08):
one thing, like truly loweringthat weight every mile that
passes.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (20:14):
Yeah, well, not every mile that
passes, but every time you shiftyour mindset and, and release
the worry, right, that youliterally, like, not just
release the worry internally.
But symbolically and literallytake a weight out of your
backpack in that rock and leaveit on the trail behind you.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (20:34):
Well, I really
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (20:35):
could be so freaking powerful.
And if you were my personaltraining client, I would be
like, guess what?
We're not walking.
We're rocking.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (20:44):
wait, are we rocking?
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (20:46):
We're rocking.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (20:49):
I really, I do love that because I
do believe in physicalmanifestations of our choices,
that my whole thing withinterior design was, get the new
bedding or choose the new paintcolor so that you do see
something physical that sayssomething has changed.
There is the possibility ofsomething different in your
life.
And so this is just that sameconcept of.
(21:11):
Feeling, physically feelingsomething that you're trying to
change internally.
I think that's really brilliant,and I am not promising to do it
because that sounds like a lotof rocks.
But I also might do it becauset.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22 (21:27):
Awesome.
Yeah.
So go.
I mean, going back to likeconcerns and stuff, I, I haven't
been as worried about the groupdynamic.
I am a little worried that I toowon't get enough solo time, um,
because I am stepping into, I.
I am stepping into, uh, was notwhen I booked this trip, not at
all thinking about anythingother than great.
(21:50):
This was on the bucket list.
Here's, it's showing up.
We are gonna do this, otherwiseit won't happen.
But as things have developedover the last, eight months for
me, I, I do see it as kind of a,a spiritual pil pilgrimage for
me and a, a pilgrimage of, andI'm not, I'm not a religious
(22:12):
person, but a pilgrimage ofprayer for, you know, for some
of the things that are happeningin, in, in life right now for
people I care about.
So.
I don't know.
And again, I like, I don't knowhow that's gonna show up.
I don't know what to reallyexpect from it.
(22:33):
and I think somebody in theWhatsApp Camino group had said
that they had, someone hadstarted their El Camino thinking
that they were going to be sortof meditating on this one thing
and then, or healing this oneaspect of their life, and then
something else showed up thatthey weren't expecting.
And that was when they lefttheir rock,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bu (22:51):
that's right.
Mm-hmm.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (22:52):
Yeah.
So.
Who knows.
'cause the road will bring, whatthe road will bring.
But I do have, I do have a, athought and an intention and a,
a prayer that I'll be takingwith me, um, on, on travel.
And I, I don't want to treatthis as a solo trip where I am
(23:15):
just spending, you know, thewhole week thinking about that.
But I also don't want to getsidetracked and not.
Not have that be part of, partof this experience for me.
So, um, I'm actually going to becollecting rocks as part of,
part of the process, for whatI'm gonna be doing for myself.
(23:37):
My concerns have mostly beenlogistical because you know, I
have some of my colleagues thatI worked with in Seattle, we
used to do, you know, athleticthings together.
We're all kind of sporty ladies,and, uh, and I had messaged them
and, and said like, I'm gonnawalk.
(23:59):
The final a hundred of El Caminoin less than two weeks, and I am
in the worst shape that I havebeen in since 2020.
I have not done, like, myrunning miles are super low, or
no, not as low as they were inwhen I was Alaska, but my
running miles are low.
I've been working on rebuildingthem up and I haven't done
anything extra other than thatand the weight training that I
(24:19):
do.
So, um, but what I have beentelling myself is that.
Because I survived theEnchantments, I can do this.
Like if I can walk theenchantments mostly in stalking
feet, I can.
(24:42):
I got this.
And so, you know, I had texted,I texted my colleagues about
that and it was like.
You know, this is what I'mtelling myself, so I wanna let
you guys know,'cause one of themhad gone with me on the
Enchantments and bore witness tothat experience, uh, and she
responded and she was like,yeah, you're, you're totally
(25:03):
right.
You can do this.
No problem.
and I said, you know, I wouldn'texpect you to say anything less
because you are like an unhingedoptimist.
Like you're crazy optimistic allthe time.
And then, and then she respondedback and was like, I watched you
walk 15 miles in your socks overwhat is commonly considered the
(25:27):
hardest day hike in the entirestate.
Your Camino readiness is anobjective fact.
I was like, all right, I'm notgonna argue that.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (25:39):
Uh, yeah, and I'm just, I'm hearing
you, I'm hearing us.
Doubt ourselves in ways thatare, we just keep doing in all
kinds of different aspects ofour life.
Like, can I really do this?
I wish I were the kind of personthat could just believe in
myself without needing thatoutside encouragement, but maybe
none of us are that way.
Again, maybe that's why we needeach other.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (26:01):
I, I would argue that the current
president of the United Statesdoesn't need much, uh, external
opinion to believe in himself.
I think he's pretty, prettysolidly established in the, in
the self-confidence scale.
I.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (26:14):
But to be fair, we never know what's
going on in somebody else'spsyche because to be that
blustery usually is anindication that you're trying to
get that accolade that says,yes, you are good enough.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (26:26):
Yeah, you got me there.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (26:28):
Yeah, for me, the reason this was on
my bucket list is because I wantto see if I can do it.
Um, you know, I've, I've donevery, very, very long walks
before, but I've never done itmany days in a row.
So that's a very big differentthing and I like that it's
happening now because it feelslike a really lovely way to mark
(26:50):
going into my fifties.
You know, this year I turned 48.
I think I've got my yearscorrect.
And so I want to basicallyconnect with my body and
understand my body a little bitbetter.
I don't spend much timeconnected to my body.
That's a, that's
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (27:09):
Right.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (27:10):
lack in my life.
So what does it feel to beuncomfortable and still be okay?
These are things that I wannastart exploring because I think
it's part of aging of, um.
Being okay with your bodychanging, but also not letting
that be a limitation in living.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (27:31):
Right.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (27:33):
So, and that's not really about
being solo or with other people,except for that I want the quiet
space to be connecting with myown physical experience.
And I'm not really planning onbringing any podcasts or music
or anything, because I want.
This is a bit, I don't wanna putthis also not being a religious
(27:58):
person, it's funny to say that Iwant this to be an experience of
faith.
I don't wanna over bring, but Ialso want it to be an experience
of majesty and awesomeness.
Because for me, the mereexistence of myself on this
planet is
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (28:19):
It's a miracle.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (28:20):
Yeah.
In the, in a, in city living andin running my business and
literally just runningeverywhere.
I don't often pause to see thisand I don't want to miss it, and
I miss it way too often.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (28:39):
yeah, yeah.
I have, um, I do have confidencebecause of the enchantments.
I.
Which since nobody but you and Iknow what I'm talking about.
you can, you can look up theenchantments, in Washington
state on Google if you're soinclined.
(28:59):
But it's a 17, I think it's a 17mile day through hike.
So point to point, um, with areally wicked climb, scramble
really up a mountain.
Face, that's all rock and notreally secure rock.
There were some rocks that weresliding about and that that
happens after the first 5K.
(29:21):
So you kind of hike in about twoand a half, three miles and you
go up, I think it's a mile and ahalf up the mountain climbing,
and then it's, it's, you know,rolling fields and stuff.
A lot of it I didn't see'causeit was dark by time, what time
we got up and threw some stuff.
(29:41):
But, um.
It's, uh, I, I used a pair ofhiking boots, and this is an
excellent lesson for everybody.
I used a pair of hiking bootsthat were not new per se, but
that I had had for 15 years andhadn't used because they were
super, super robust, like Alpinehiking boots, and I just didn't.
(30:04):
Have any significant hikes thatwarranted wearing them, but they
were an expensive pair of bootsand so I never got rid of them
and I brought them out to wearthem.
And about a mile, mile and ahalf in I remembered, oh yeah.
One of the reasons I didn't wearthese is because they rub my
ankle the wrong way and theyaggravate a tendon on my right
(30:25):
ankle.
That, um, became debilitating.
By the time we finished thatscramble up as guard's pass, and
so the final, the final, yeah, Idon't know, 12, 15 miles or so.
I did much of it.
I did about half of it with oneshoe on and one shoe off because
I could go faster, and theneventually took both boots off
(30:48):
and hiked the last seven milesin my socks because I could go
one mile an hour at that pacerather than half a mile an hour.
I mean, the pain wasexcruciating,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (31:00):
Now, Dean, were you hiking into camp?
You must have been.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (31:04):
n no.
we car camped at the finish, andthen in the morning took a, a
shuttle bus that picks people upto the start,
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (31:11):
Got it.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (31:13):
and then from the start, hiked,
hiked all the way through.
And I wasn't, I wasn't gravelyinjured.
It wasn't that I couldn't getout, it's just that I was.
Real, I was so slow thatteenagers wearing Converse
tennis shoes with their motherwho very likely had COVID I,
(31:33):
'cause this was in the kind ofearly days, um, beat me and beat
us out of the trail.
And, and so, because I wasn't.
I was mobile.
I didn't wanna call search andrescue.
It's like there's no reason forthat, and we would have to sit
and wait and it's getting coldbecause it's dark.
That seems like a bad idea.
(31:53):
So we just keep going.
Right?
We just keep going.
That is the answer.
It's the only reasonable,logical answer is we just keep
walking.
Kudos to Kristen for being likethe unhinged optimist who was
like, yeah, let's go for it.
All right, we got this, we cando this.
And you know, we, we made itthrough in 23 and a half hours.
(32:16):
Uh, we were not expecting totake that long, I think.
Yeah.
I think we had estimated that wewould be done in, in seven to
nine hours, I think is what ouroriginal guess was.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,B (32:29):
smokes.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (32:30):
Yeah.
I.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (32:31):
Yeah, I think you've got Camino.
I don't think it's gonna be aproblem.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (32:35):
But that was one hike in 1 24 hour
period.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi (32:39):
It's the multiple thing.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634 (32:40):
it's the multiple days where I,
that's the only thing that makesme nervous, but I do trust that
I have the grit
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (32:47):
Yeah.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (32:48):
to do it.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (32:49):
Yeah, and I think that's really what
defines us as people.
We are, we do belong to a tribethat has grit.
We will see it through, maybenot as fast as we hoped,
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286345 (33:01):
And we may come out with some scars
on the other side, but
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bu (33:05):
pretty sure it's called life.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (33:07):
we will get through
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (33:08):
Yeah.
You know, I wasn't actually verynervous until last week's
storms, so we had huge hailstorms here in Paris.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo2286 (33:19):
really
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (33:19):
Yeah, like break hail, and it was the
size of ice cubes out of thefreezer.
They were really big.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228 (33:26):
smokes.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi1 (33:27):
And um, and then you had the huge
rain down in Gerona.
And so I've been thinking thewhole time, okay, I gotta
prepare for heat, I gottaprepare for dry.
And all of a sudden I'm like, Igotta prepare for monsoon.
And the, and it's just thatreminder.
You can't fully prepare.
You've got to trust that it willtake care of itself.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (33:52):
Yeah.
I did order lightweight rainpants.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Busi128 (33:55):
I do.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (33:56):
I did.
Yeah.
Um, and I did get a rain jacketbecause I looked at the 10 day
forecast out in Galicia, and itis rain and even like some
thunderstorms in the very early,like the first day or so that
we're going out.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest, (34:12):
thunder.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo228634535 (34:14):
I mean, it is a long forecast out,
so of course it could totallychange in a heartbeat.
But I definitely am anticipatinggiven how the weather has been
in Catalonia this spring, that Ishould not think that it's going
(34:34):
to be me the entire time
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (34:35):
Yeah.
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863453 (34:36):
I.
2 37 audioRebeccaWest,Bus (34:37):
Well, in a couple of episodes we'll be
able to tell everybody how itwent.
I dunno if we'll record on thetrail.
I doubt it.
Um, so stay tuned everybody tohow our feet turned out and how
our turned out.
Two different kinds of
1 37 audioAimeeGallo22863 (34:56):
Until then.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person, brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time.
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