July 14, 2025 • 52 mins
The Tour Company We Used: G Adventures
The Tour We Took: Camino de Santiago Encompassed
Where to find Aimee:
- Instagram: @vibrancenutrition
- Nutrition Coaching: vibrancenutrition.com
- Podcast on Nutrition: Blasphemous Nutrition
- Substack on Nomadic Life: NomadicNomMom
Where to find Rebecca:
- Instagram and her life in Paris: @beseriouslyhappy
- Podcast for Interior Design-preneurs: Stuff Interior Designers Need to Know
- Biz Coaching for Interior Designers: seriouslyhappy.com
- Book on Interior Design Psychology: Happy Starts at Home
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker (00:01):
Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Aimee
and Rebecca, who each move fromthe United States to Europe to
become expats.
Aimee to Spain and Rebecca toFrance.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure.
Encourage you to follow yourown, move abroad dreams, and
remind you that you're not alonewhen the going gets tough.
Enjoy.
Aimee (00:24):
Bon Jola, Rebecca, can I just say that I have missed you
in the like six or seven days?
I haven't seen you.
Rebecca (00:37):
Well, that's actually really adorable because for
people listening, they may notknow that we got to spend a lot
of human form time togetherbecause we did our Camino walk.
Aimee (00:47):
We did.
Rebecca (00:48):
expect you to miss me afterwards.
Given that you got a healthydose of Rebecca.
I.
Aimee (00:54):
I did.
I gotta see most sides ofRebecca.
Rebecca (00:58):
do we wanna
Aimee (00:58):
I.
Rebecca (00:58):
with the moods of the Camino or shall we give people
an overview of what the heck itis?
Aimee (01:05):
Yeah, why don't we, why don't we get everyone up to
speed and then we can talk aboutit from there.
Rebecca (01:11):
Alright, well here's my, here's how I would describe
the Camino.
The Camino is a very longpilgrimage walk that people have
been doing for many hundreds ofyears.
It has many routes, so it's notjust one path.
So Aimee and I took one of thepaths, I believe, Aimee, that we
(01:31):
were on the French route.
Aimee (01:34):
Yes, we did the last, the last 113 kilometers of the
French route.
Rebecca (01:39):
And that number is important because in order to
get a fun certificate at the endfrom the church saying you did
it, you
Aimee (01:46):
In Latin.
Rebecca (01:47):
in Latin no less, you have to do at least a hundred
kilometers and you have to dothe final leg of whatever route
you're on.
So we did.
Just over a hundred kilometersof the final leg of the French
route, leading into Santiago deCompostela where there is a
massive church just waitingcathedral.
(02:11):
I mean, it's not even worth itto call it a church.
It is this massive cathedralwaiting to greet tired pilgrims.
Is that a pretty
Aimee (02:19):
Yeah,
Rebecca (02:19):
summary?
Aimee (02:20):
I think that's a decent summary, although the pilgrimage
has been going on.
So Alfonso ii, the King ofAstoria was the first person to
make the pilgrimage to confirmthat the, that the tomb of St.
James the apostle was real.
That was more than a thousandyears ago.
I believe'cause they discovered,they discovered his tomb
(02:44):
sometime in the eight hundreds.
Some guy discovered it, youknow, another one of those
Catholic miracles of lightsemanating from the ground.
So mysterious, they found thetomb.
The guy ran to the bishop.
The bishop was like WTF, andthen ran back and confirmed it
and then went and told the kingof odious, which actually isn't
(03:05):
odious is not the province wherethe.
That's Gia.
Um, but maybe Gia didn't have aking or something.
I don't know.
Or it wasn't its own province.
I don't know.
That bit of history is unknownto me.
And then King Alfonso, thesecond walked that first
pilgrimage, which is known asthe primitive route.
(03:26):
That was the, like the og Groute confirmed it.
Word spread like wildfire.
People have been walking fromall over.
Over Europe, like all over theChristian world to northern
Spain to pay homage to what isbelieved, to be the remains of
(03:48):
the Apostle James.
Rebecca (03:50):
And what I didn't realize geographically before we
started was how far West wewould be.
So end part end point is rightabove Portugal,
Aimee (04:02):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (04:03):
falling off the continent back into the Atlantic
Ocean.
Um, you don't get all the waythere unless you take this extra
bit of the root to fiera, whichI also realized means end of the
earth ness era.
Dunno how I didn't put thattogether without being told by
our guide.
Um, but it's really remote,which I really love that aspect.
(04:27):
Like, you're coming here justlike all these people have for
apparently a thousand years
Aimee (04:32):
Yeah.
Rebecca (04:33):
specific.
Communal reason, and that feltreally exciting to me.
So we had expectations.
How did it go, Aimee?
Aimee (04:46):
Better than expected.
I expected, um, pain and it waspretty minimal for me.
I expected blisters.
There were zero I.
Uh, I expected rain.
There was none.
I also expected heat.
There was none.
It was the most perfect weather,we could have hoped for because
(05:12):
the rains that have beenhappening all spring stopped
like a day or two before westarted our route.
And then the day after wefinished it, the temperature
spiked up like 10 to 15 degrees.
So we were really damn lucky.
Rebecca (05:27):
It was like walking inside.
Of a bubble, an impossiblebubble in
Aimee (05:34):
Yeah,
Rebecca (05:34):
everything.
The weather, our physicality,our bodies.
Not everybody on our, in ourgroup was as lucky.
Aimee (05:41):
true.
Rebecca (05:41):
We had several people who seemed to have picked up a
pretty good virus on the flightover.
They were walking withpneumonia.
Aimee (05:49):
Yeah.
Rebecca (05:50):
big shout out to our compatriots who didn't have as
easy walk as we did, and acouple people got some of those
serious blisters that you would
Aimee (05:58):
Yep.
Yeah.
Rebecca (05:59):
I think Aimee would agree that don't feel like I got
tested on the route.
I felt like I was given a gifton this walk.
Aimee (06:10):
Yeah.
I didn't feel tested either.
Um, which is amusing'cause I am.
In that regard, I'm a littledisappointed.
Like I feel like, oh, I wish Ihad three to five more days to
walk, so that way I could feellike I accomplished something,
you know, which is this.
(06:30):
I guess that sort of revealsthis layer of masochism that's
inherent to my personality thatI can't just be like, yay, that
was easier than I thought.
How lucky am I?
But be like, gosh, I.
You know, don't people do thisto like bleed and suffer?
Why am I not bleeding andsuffering?
Rebecca (06:51):
Yeah,
Aimee (06:51):
Oh, you know what?
That's probably That's probablythe Catholic in me.
That's probably like CatholicDNA coming out.
If I didn't.
Rebecca (07:00):
sounds like, it
Aimee (07:01):
It does, doesn't it?
I didn't realize that was stillthere.
It needs to be exercised
Rebecca (07:07):
sounds like you have to do another walk.
Aimee (07:09):
evidently.
Yes.
Rebecca (07:10):
But a huge shout out to Gabby, who was our Chief
Experience Officer.
'cause we did a tour through GAdventures and she was there by
our side, the whole trip, uh,hurting 16 people and keeping us
all on track.
And
Aimee (07:27):
for Nima who.
Rebecca (07:28):
except for one of our team, team members who did
wander off, but much to my, oh,what do I wanna say?
I resisted the fact that shemade us stop and she made us
rest and I did not like it.
And I would say that severalother group members had that
(07:49):
same American mentality ofwanting to push through and feel
the pain, and because she showedus how to rest.
It was easier than it would'vebeen if I had, I'd been left to
my own devices and I feel likethere's a lesson there that I'm
supposed to embrace, but I'mstill resisting it.
Aimee (08:11):
Oh, you're still resisting it.
That's funny.
'cause I've been sad that Idon't have the, I.
Structure set in place for me tostop whatever's going on at like
11 o'clock and go out and sit ata cafe for 30 or 45 minutes and
(08:32):
have a coffee and then, youknow, do the two hour lunches,
right?
Like that was just, it was soSpanish, but I loved it.
I absolutely loved it.
And I know too, like one of thereasons why it was so.
Um, why it wasn't as challenge?
I won't, I can't really say itwas easy.
(08:53):
There was definitely, you know,my calves, my calves were tight.
There was one, one day where Iwas, feeling a lot of tightness
and achiness in my calves and myfeet, and I, I realized that was
because I was being stingy withmy electrolytes, which was
stupid because I did bringenough for.
The trip, but I was being reallystingy with them.
(09:18):
and you know, as soon as Istarted putting electrolytes in
my water, it was totally fine.
But my impulse, you know, at theonset also would've been just
walk 22 kilometers.
If you can walk 22 kilometersand if you need to rest to eat,
do that.
Otherwise just eat the jerky andsnacks in your bag and.
(09:40):
Hurry up and get there.
And one of the things that Ireally, really appreciate about
Gabriela was that she set thatexpectation at the onset.
The very first day she was like,here's the deal, where we're
going are are villages, some ofthem are towns.
There's not gonna be much to do,so don't rush to get there'cause
there's nothing going on.
(10:02):
And it's not like if you getthere early.
You can check into the hotelimmediately.
'cause we couldn't do that tillthree.
Right.
So there's no benefit to rushingthrough it.
And setting that expectationimmediately was so helpful for
me to just be like, right, thisis not a marathon that you've
(10:26):
signed up for.
This isn't a race.
This is just a.
Experience that you get to havewith your friend and 15
strangers that you know, many ofwhom became friends at the end
of the week.
Rebecca (10:46):
She did such an amazing job setting expectations, and
it's something that I pay sosuch close attention to when I'm
coaching because if as interiordesigners, if we don't set the
right expectations, things justcrash and burn so fast.
And one of the things Gabby didon like the very first day,
she's like.
This place where we're stayingin Madrid is a hotel on the
(11:09):
road.
They are accommodations and shemade'em sound like they were
gonna be hovels, like I
Aimee (11:15):
Right
Rebecca (11:16):
you know, be, be there with the cockroaches, whatever
this meant.
I didn't know
Aimee (11:20):
squeaky twin beds with, you know, the springs poking in
your back and
Rebecca (11:25):
but it wasn't that at all.
They
Aimee (11:26):
no.
Rebecca (11:27):
clean, they were very well tended.
I felt very safe.
I mean, you know, was it fancy?
but she, she did such a greatjob of making sure that our
expectations were appropriate,that, that she ended up
exceeding our expectations andit just eased the friction it
(11:49):
every single step, and itallowed us, I mean, it allowed
me to just kind of relax intothe experience and
Aimee (11:57):
Yeah.
Rebecca (11:58):
have to make it be something other than what it
was.
And not having anything to doother than walk was so relaxing.
Aimee (12:14):
You did not look relaxed.
You looked like a caffeinatedpuppy in the toy section of
Petco.
I mean.
Rebecca (12:24):
that is my version of relaxed.
But yeah, you would think.
I was like a cartoon character.
I was
Aimee (12:31):
She totally was.
Rebecca (12:32):
out there.
I, I mean, I was literallyskipping on the trail and I
would catch myself doing it andnot realize I had started.
I.
Aimee (12:43):
Oh, funny.
Rebecca (12:44):
Oh yeah, half the times you saw me doing that.
I would.
I would.
I just was doing it.
I was like a golden retrieverout there.
because I was finally surroundedby forest and I
Aimee (12:57):
Yeah.
Rebecca (12:58):
by forest since a long time, but partly because there
was no on me, nothing.
I had to get there and do.
Except for that one class that Idouble booked myself for at the
very end of the trail.
(13:19):
But even that was very much agiving over to the Camino,
saying the wifi will be there orit won't.
I've done what I can do andletting Gabby know that I need
it.
She has talked to the hotel.
There is literally nothing elseI can do to control this, and I
was able to let it go and it.
Aimee (13:41):
That's awesome.
And the hotel really went aboveand beyond to make sure that you
could get connected to theirwifi.
Rebecca (13:49):
He ran an entire ethernet line, and of course I
use a Mac computer, so theydon't even have those ports, but
they ran an entire ethernet lineto our room in this medieval
building where we were stayingin the ground level.
So you could see the foundationwalls were like two feet thick,
where our windows were inserted.
(14:10):
And it was the old brick wall ofthe building that was the sides
of our hotel room.
We had at least two places likethat.
Aimee (14:17):
Yeah.
Rebecca (14:18):
Oh, the intersection of history and, and just knowing
how many people had walked inthe places we were stepping.
You guys gotta do it.
If it's on your bucket list, youhave to do this.
It is amazing.
Aimee (14:37):
And we cannot recommend our guide Gabriela, highly
enough.
Rebecca (14:43):
Truly.
Aimee (14:44):
I did not think, you know, my expectation, my thought
was that our guide was going toshow up at the end, you know,
and make sure that we werechecked in, take care of us, you
know, make some recommendationsfor dinner, what have you.
Uh, but that we would be, youknow, doing the Camino solo and,
(15:05):
you know, she walked it with usand she walks with groups five
times a year, which is bothawesome and mind blowing.
I'm like, that's a great job.
That sounds incredible.
How do I get to be a guy doingthat?
And also like, wow.
Rebecca (15:25):
And she's so normal.
Aimee (15:27):
Yeah.
Rebecca (15:27):
you know, you kind of picture like people are probably
picturing some sort of like IronMan triathlete or something.
She's just a human and, and
Aimee (15:35):
She is normal.
Rebecca (15:36):
feel so accessible.
Aimee (15:40):
She does not look like she is a winner of the amazing
race.
She's, she is not a gladiator.
Rebecca (15:50):
Just a human.
Aimee (15:51):
She is just a fantastic.
Woman who is so friendly, sowelcoming, so good at making
sure everyone is okay and thattheir needs are met.
And for those in the group whoresist anybody helping out and
(16:14):
who are fiercely independent andreject help, she just gave zero
F's about that and was like,well.
I'm gonna help you anyway.
Yeah.
And her sense of humor wasfantastic.
Rebecca (16:27):
Yeah.
Um, you know, one thing I wasn'tsure about before we went on the
trail was how social it would orwouldn't be,
Aimee (16:35):
Yeah.
You were worried about that.
I.
Rebecca (16:37):
Well, aware of it because I'm not super into
humans.
Um, I found that there were twoaspects to being social.
One was the dynamics within ourgroup, and the other was the
dynamics with random humanswalking on the trail.
would you like to speak toeither of those social dynamics?
Aimee (17:00):
Yeah, the random humans on the trail, I.
I only had two interactionsreally with random people on the
trail, which I'm kind of bummedabout.
I would've liked to hear morestories, more experiences
especially, but I, I will saylike both people that I talked
to on the trail had been on thetrail for more than a month, had
(17:22):
started in the Pyrenees.
one of them who is this?
Um.
He, he was a total boomer.
He was such a boomer.
And I say that because he was ofthe age where, you know, his
glory days were the mad mendays.
(17:43):
And so he talked to women acertain way, referred to women
in a certain way that wasantiquated.
And, um.
Because I'm of a certain RA ageand not especially s flaky, I
could kinda laugh it off and belike, oh, oh, you're okay.
(18:05):
I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna dumpyou in like my grandfather cate,
like grandfather category oflike, you know, low key, well,
not even really low key, butjust sort of, you know.
Rebecca (18:20):
Sort of
Aimee (18:21):
Objectification happening, but he was, you know,
in his own way, in his own, inhis own boomer way, he was super
charming.
And he had been, he had been onthe trails since, um, April 9th
is when he started and gotcaught in a snowstorm in the
French Pyrenees.
Rebecca (18:38):
Wow.
Aimee (18:39):
Yeah.
And he was like, you know, Ispent some time in Utah, so for
me it wasn't really a big deal,but some people were super
ill-equipped and unprepared tohandle something like that.
And, and he had said how the,the people in that area when the
snowstorm came were making likemakeshift shelters for the
pilgrims who got trapped in thesnowstorm so that they could
(19:02):
kind of shelter in place until,until things settled down and
they could keep moving, but.
When we were walking, thetemperatures were in in the
seventies you know, Fahrenheitand I'm, you know, it's hard for
me to think about that situationwhere you're crossing the
Pyrenees and you have to beprepared for cold weather as
(19:26):
well as hot weather on thistrip.
And that's a lot to pack.
And some people do this withouthaving their luggage transferred
from.
Hotel to hotel or hostile tohost carrying everything.
Rebecca (19:40):
'cause
Aimee (19:41):
Yeah,
Rebecca (19:41):
things that G Adventures did for us is our big
bag was shuttled to our nexthotel each night.
So we only had to carry a daypack.
Aimee (19:50):
right.
So, yeah, exactly.
I had a first aid kit, snacksand water on me, and that's all
I carried.
But you know, if, if you'regoing to, to do this without
that luxury, then.
Everything that you need, youneed to carry on your back if
you're going to be prepared.
Otherwise, you know, you canhope that you'll find it if you
(20:12):
need it.
If something unexpected happensand there is a saying, you know,
the, the, the Camino willprovide.
Rebecca (20:19):
But you do need to at least mentally prepare.
Pair for all four seasons,because all four seasons can
happen to you on this trail,
Aimee (20:26):
Yeah.
If in, if you're doing it inspring.
Rebecca (20:29):
Mm-hmm.
I'm my, the two stories thatreally struck me were not people
that I met, but it was people inour group who met the couple
that had been walking togethersince the Pyrenees.
They were in their
Aimee (20:41):
Yeah.
Rebecca (20:42):
seventies.
And then another couple who werein their eighties, and I don't
know how long they had beentraveling, but I know that they
did one of our one day legs andit took'em three days.
the stories like that remindedme that all things are possible.
You might have to change yourpace or your expectations, that.
(21:06):
Everything is possible, andthat's so exciting for me going
into my fifties and, andremembering that you get to live
your older years like you livedyour younger years.
There's no end to the race.
You
Aimee (21:23):
Right.
Rebecca (21:23):
to walk it a little slower.
Aimee (21:25):
Right, exactly.
I can't think of anyone stateside who would, I mean, there
are always exceptions, right?
But aside from individuals whohave been active their entire
adult life and strongly identifyas an active person, most of our
(21:49):
retirees who are.
Certainly above 70.
Don't even think it is.
It's not even on their scope ofreality to do something like
that.
And you know, and I think it isprobably because we do have such
a mentality of go big or gohome.
(22:10):
And so most of us just go home,right?
But that couple, that80-year-old couple, they were
doing, three to five KA day.
They didn't have to go back towork.
So if it took them a month towalk a hundred kilometers, so be
it.
That's how they were spendingtheir time together and yeah,
(22:33):
it's fantastic.
It's fantastic.
Rebecca (22:37):
You know, speaking of the trail itself and, uh, the,
the trail providing, there are alot of towns, so I was actually
surprised by how regularly wecould access a bathroom.
That was actually reallysurprising to me.
the stretches, some of them canget a little bit long if you
have an very active bladder, butwas a lot more than I expected.
(22:59):
And then there's.
Such charming little surprisesalong the path, like bagpipers
or people that will put a waxseal stamp in your little
passport.
Aimee (23:11):
Yeah,
Rebecca (23:11):
of your favorite moments like that?
Aimee (23:14):
I was surprised about the bagpipes.
I did not know that bagpipesmade it down to Galicia and are
in fact a gian music form.
Um, that was quite a surprise.
And, uh.
Yeah, the bagpipes are veryencouraging when you're, when
you're walking and then you'rein the middle of the forest and
(23:37):
all of a sudden you hear bagpipemusic and it's like, wait a
minute.
Rebecca (23:43):
Oh, but that reminds me, do you remember that one
gift shop where it was likeeighties music and everybody was
like dancing their way
Aimee (23:50):
Oh, that was fantastic.
That was great.
Yeah.
Little things like that to justkind of pep you up and, um,
break through, you know,whatever zone or, or you know,
if it's feeling monotonous andlong to you, those things just
kind of pull you out and, andget you back to the present and
(24:13):
give you a nice, solid dose ofdopamine to, to enjoy.
Rebecca (24:20):
Um, speaking of doses, what about the food?
Aimee (24:26):
I was definitely, yeah, that's funny.
'cause by the end of it I wasreally happy not to have gian
food, like all Spanish food.
It is simple.
Simply prepared without a lot ofseasoning and so many potatoes.
So many potatoes.
Rebecca (24:46):
And a surprising amount of octopus, which I
Aimee (24:50):
Yeah.
That didn't surprise me.
That didn't surprise me at all,but yeah.
Yeah, lots, lots of potatoes,lots of, there's lots of octopus
available.
Scallops also on all the menus.
Um,
Rebecca (25:03):
different from the how they are in the United States.
They
Aimee (25:06):
yes.
Rebecca (25:06):
bright orange like appendage, which all scallops
do.
But in the United States, thatpart is usually cut off and
we're talking like post-it noteorange.
The thing is bright orange nextto that little white scallop
and, um.
So yes, you can eat it in caseyou find yourself here.
(25:26):
That is edible.
It's part of the scallop.
It
Aimee (25:29):
Yep.
Rebecca (25:29):
the scallop.
You don't have to freak out.
Aimee (25:31):
Do not have to freak out.
No.
Yeah.
Um, so the amusing thing is thatwhen I got back to Jerome and
got back into my kitchen, I.
All I've been wanting to do isuse the ingredients from the
foods that we were eating inGalicia, like I've been making
tomato salads and putting somelentils in there.
(25:54):
Um, it's so funny.
Rebecca (25:58):
Well, I'm delighted to hear you say that because I
found the same thing like whenwe were on the Camino.
I'm like really looking forwardto getting back to really
flavorful, layered food.
ever since I've been back, Ihave been craving the tuna salad
mixa, which is what I mostly hadfor lunches.
It's so simple.
(26:19):
It's so weird I can't explainit.
but I think it's so interestingthat you had the same response.
Aimee (26:28):
yeah.
I'm putting my own spin on it.
Um, you know, I'm using spinachinstead of leaf lettuce.
For the tomato salad.
But you know, I've startedadding thinly sliced red onions
to it and then I threw thelentils in'cause it's just a
little bit too warm for a lentilsoup.
so I added that into the saladand just put lemon juice and
olive oil on it and a littlesalt and that's it.
(26:50):
And that's just not how Itypically cook.
Rebecca (26:55):
It's
Aimee (26:56):
So.
It is so weird and my kid isloving it.
Like, he's like, oh mom, thissalad is great.
I'm like, cool,
Rebecca (27:03):
Nice.
Aimee (27:03):
make it again.
Rebecca (27:05):
Now, the one place where food was not simple, and
was exquisite is in at the endplace.
It's sent at, what's it called?
Aimee (27:14):
And Santiago, the compost.
Yeah.
Rebecca (27:18):
So what she, what Gabby told us is that there are, I
think 14 Michelin ratedrestaurants in I think two of
which you guys all have to checkmy numbers and they'll change
anyway, but I think two of whichare in Santiago and those
restaurants have raised the barfor all of the restaurants in
Santiago.
Aimee (27:39):
Oh,
Rebecca (27:39):
And so
Aimee (27:40):
missed this conversation.
Rebecca (27:42):
well, with Damien being a chef and all, of course I'm
always paying attention to whereto eat.
We didn't eat at a Michelinrestaurant for our final
celebration dinner, but it wasdefinitely a place where you can
see that influence of chefs whoreally care about their craft
and the scallops.
We had that night,
Aimee (28:01):
Oh, so good.
Rebecca (28:03):
but that one was off the charts delicious
Aimee (28:08):
Yeah.
Rebecca (28:09):
and still simple.
They didn't make the ingredientsfussy, but they just, they did
elevate them.
Mm So, okay, we talked about,oh, so what about the traveling
with a group?
You had never taken a tour ofany kind, as I recall, right?
(28:29):
So you
Aimee (28:30):
Yes,
Rebecca (28:30):
a tour
Aimee (28:31):
the.
The Australian family wasstunned that I had never done a
group tour before.
They were like, what?
I was like, yeah, I just, I'venever, never done that.
And, they had actually done acouple, I think, with G
Adventures before and had alwayshad a great experience.
So that was really good to hearthat.
You know, what we ended up doingwas, was not the outlier in
(28:56):
terms of excellence, but.
Actually is something that couldbe expected if you do a tour
with them.
yeah.
It was my first group tour.
I didn't really know what toexpect and I didn't think, I
didn't even think about it untilGabby had said at that
celebration dinner at the end,that when she'd gotten the
(29:16):
roster of everyone who wasenrolled and she saw that there
were 13 women in the group, thatshe was.
She was like, I better pray.
I better pray And I was like, ohmy God.
That's right.
That's a lot of estrogen doinglike a hard thing together.
It could be a total disaster.
(29:38):
And it was quite the opposite.
It was, it was fantastic andamazing and we were so good
together as a group.
I think one of the big takeawaysthat I got from the Camino was
remembering that.
That tribe of sisterhood thatI've not experienced in a really
long time, that when, gosh, whenwomen come together and they're
(30:04):
not trying to tear each otherdown, and they are self aware
and self composed enough torecognize and deal with their
own stuff when it comes up.
It's so, it's just so good andso nourishing to hang out with
women who are in that place inlife and who, who you can
(30:26):
actually just be real withrather than play all the stupid
petty little social games thatwe are coerced into playing
because of, you know, society.
Um, I mean, I certainly haven'thad an experience like that in a
good 15 years.
(30:48):
So it's, you know, it's veryuncommon and it was something
that I never expected toexperience again.
So it was really beautiful forme to remember that.
I guess remember that somethinglike that can still happen, even
though.
(31:08):
Everything is different about mylife than it was, you know, when
I experienced it before.
Rebecca (31:13):
That's gorgeous.
And I think for me, part of whyit worked so well is that a
certain kind of person wouldself-select to do a trail like
this.
You
Aimee (31:26):
Hmm.
Rebecca (31:26):
a person who is willing to challenge themselves is
willing to.
Be dirty and you know not.
Be preening themselvesconstantly, you know,'cause the
trail's not built for that.
and so immediately I wasattracted to these people.
(31:46):
And when you already kind of setthe expectation that you have
something in common, that's agreat icebreaker.
I think it's why groups likeMeetup can work so well because
you're
Aimee (31:56):
Right.
Rebecca (31:56):
together and walking a mountain with your golden
retrievers.
Like you have something to breakthe ice, but.
I also kind of feel like it waspart of that rosy otherworldly
perfection that we experienced,that everybody just clicked.
It was part of that gift fromthe universe on this
Aimee (32:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rebecca (32:22):
Um, okay,
Aimee (32:23):
Are there are, there are many opportunities on the Camino
for things to go sideways andfor, you know, people to behave
badly, right?
even if you have that sharedcommonality going into it and
that thing that can unite you.
When you're, well, for instance,when you're sick and you feel
(32:44):
like crap and the inflammationhas crossed the blood brain
barrier and is affecting yourmood, not everybody can possess
the self-control, not to lashout at others, right.
Um, when you're.
When you don't get food when youneed it, that can be a huge
liability for some personalitiesthat can impact other people.
(33:08):
And we all, you know, I thinkeverybody had moments where they
were really challenged, but, buteveryone handled it.
It wasn't, they didn't put theresponsibility to deal with it
on somebody else.
They didn't deny that it washappening and lash out, right?
(33:30):
Like everyone stayedself-regulated and aware enough
that no one else in the groupwas negatively affected if they
were having a moment.
And those of us who knew thisperson was having a moment, I
think by and large, we all kindof knew.
How much to check in, how muchto pull away.
(33:52):
Like it was the communicationand the energy bet within and
between people, from myperception and my experience was
very clear and easy to navigate.
Rebecca (34:07):
And it was, it felt very sincere
Aimee (34:10):
Yeah.
Rebecca (34:11):
and like there were no apologies.
Needed for whatever you wereexperiencing in the moment.
I remember.
Aimee (34:16):
Right.
Rebecca (34:16):
We were walking past one of our compatriots and nude
said something to her, she hadher earbuds in, and she goes,
you know, I'd like some time tomyself.
it didn't feel like a rejection.
It just felt like a statement offact.
And we all had been in thatplace.
And so giving that to the personasking for it easy, for that is
(34:37):
a really big deal.
It's something we're not good atin our regular lives to be able
to say, you know, what I needright now is X, Y, or z.
Aimee (34:44):
Yeah.
Rebecca (34:45):
That was one of the gifts that I got on the trail as
you watched me navigate whathunger actually looks like being
on the trail.
Takes a lot of the variablesaway.
In my regular life, I've got alot of different sources of
potential stress.
Will I get my Visa?
(35:06):
Is my husband being exactly theway I want him to be?
all of these things, theseemails that I need to answer.
And so when I get frustrated andcranky feeling, I can't always
isolate what's going on
Aimee (35:21):
Yeah.
Rebecca (35:21):
on the trail.
I.
There were only a few thingsgoing on, it was really easy to
identify, oh, Rebecca, you'refeeling, as we talked about a
little stabby, a little murdery,maybe that's hunger.
And to reconnect with my body ina way that was free of all of
the other inputs was reallynice.
Aimee (35:48):
Yeah, I can see how like removing the layers of
everything else in your lifewould really highlight that for
you and allow you to get intouch with, with, with what your
body needs.
I was just super excited towitness it all.
I was like, oh, look, look,look.
This is so great
Rebecca (36:09):
Food is a positive thing to put in your face.
Aimee (36:13):
I don't feel you've ever not felt that.
You've just prioritized otherthings.
Rebecca (36:18):
I've, no, it's been an up and down relationship with me
for food.
Aimee (36:21):
Hmm.
Rebecca (36:21):
I spent decades emotionally eating and, know,
twice that made me gain 30pounds over the course of three
months.
And.
Aimee (36:31):
I.
Rebecca (36:31):
I've worked really hard to separate my emotions from my
eating, but there are times whenI kind of take that, let that go
too far and I'm like, oh, I mustjust be feeling feelings.
Aimee (36:44):
Uh,
Rebecca (36:45):
out sometimes the feeling you're feeling is
hunger, and that's what I hadn'thad a moment to kind of
Aimee (36:55):
right.
That homicidal irritation isactually sometimes the hunger
cue rather than a grumblingstomach.
Rebecca (37:02):
Exactly.
Exactly.
So in the wrap up, I immediatelyleft and
Aimee (37:12):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (37:12):
Paris.
You had an extra day and thenyou went to Madrid and hung out
with the boys.
How do you feel about yourchoices about how to end it and
what advice would you
Aimee (37:22):
Mm-hmm.
I loved the extra day inSantiago.
That was really nice.
To meander a little bit to gointo some of the shops for those
who also stayed an extra day.
We, we had lunch together.
We, you know, same as theCamino, right?
We came together if we wanted toseparate, we separated.
(37:43):
And I also had, a good longstretch in the afternoon
completely by myself in thehotel room, which once I was
sitting in this stone walledtomb of silence, I was like, oh
yeah.
I needed that.
That's really good.
and you know, after about fouror five hours I was like, okay,
let's, I'm ready to see ifanybody wants to do dinner.
(38:06):
Um, Madrid, going back toMadrid, summer showed up, you
know, right after we finishedthe Camino.
So Madrid was in the nineties.
It's a big city.
There's not a lot of nature.
Didn't really need that.
Three days in Madrid, I wassuper ready.
The best part about Madrid washow ready I was to come back to
(38:29):
Gerona and how just having thatanticipation was really, really
nice.
even in Santiago, as wonderfulas Santiago is, I was like,
yeah, it's not, it's not J itjust doesn't, there's something
about this.
Town of mine that has completelyand utterly like just I'm
(38:56):
godsmack.
I I love it here.
I, this feels like where I wantto be.
Rebecca (39:01):
That's beautiful.
Aimee (39:03):
Yeah, it's really nice.
And who, like, it's still such acrazy miracle that, we're, we
did not research this town atall.
We just decided to come herebecause the school looked great
and we're like, well, we'llfigure out if the town is
(39:23):
worthwhile or not.
Barcelona is close by, so, um,you know, it was just kind of
knowing it wouldn't be as badas.
Commuting from South Everett nomatter what.
Um, and for those of you whoaren't from the Seattle area,
that's basically, having to getin the car and drive, you know,
(39:45):
20 minutes to do anythingreasonable, or an hour or two,
two hours to get into Seattle.
You know, I knew it wouldn't bethat bad, but I just didn't
think that it would be such aperfectly charming and wonderful
place to be.
Rebecca (40:01):
I'm glad you feel like you're.
Home again.
Aimee (40:03):
Yeah.
Rebecca (40:04):
I think the biggest surprise for me on the trip was
that it was very social.
Like even if we weren't engagingwith people, people were always
around and it's one of thethings Gabby, I.
Asked of us is at least have apartner so that if you get lost,
(40:25):
you don't freak out and you canbe safe.
Um, so you're never ever aloneon the Camino, which I think is
a positive, but if you'relooking for a really isolated
permit experience, that's notwhere I would go looking to find
it.
Aimee (40:42):
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think there werecertainly people who were
traveling the Camino alone andwere,, just kind of.
Putting on their, I'm solo and Iwanna stay that way, vibe as
they were walking.
But yeah, certainly if you don'twanna be around any humans at
all, a I don't, it's, it's waytoo popular a pilgrimage to, to
(41:08):
take in that situation.
Particularly the closer that youget to, to Santiago where all of
the routes meet.
'cause they're like five or sixdifferent routes.
through Europe, when they, theyall converge then, then it gets
crowded.
That said, it wasn't as crowdedas I expected.
Rebecca (41:25):
Agree, yes.
And I think, again, Gabby'sexpectation building, right?
She wanted to warn us, I guess,like we're all coming together.
I was expecting swarms of people
Aimee (41:37):
Yeah.
Rebecca (41:38):
wasn't
Aimee (41:38):
Like concert, going to a concert kind of thing.
I thought that the plaza infront of Santiago would be
filled with people.
Rebecca (41:44):
Yeah, no, not at all.
And I did not go into thechurch, so I guess we should
have you speak to that part too.
Aimee (41:53):
Yeah.
Like every great church builtduring Spanish Empire's,
heights, it is glorious.
Rebecca (42:06):
It's
Aimee (42:06):
Lots of, it's huge.
Yes, it's huge.
It's got, um.
There's a lot of gold on thealtar.
I didn't, you know, there's anopportunity to like, go
underneath the underneath, Ithink an, an altar and like hug
a statue of St.
James or something.
(42:26):
I didn't do that'cause I waslike, yeah, I'm not, I'm not
feeling that yeah, didn't,didn't feel the need to do that.
I didn't stay for the pilgrimsmass because I, that was when I
was like, yeah, actually I justneed to be, I need to go rest
and lay down and be by myself.
So I left instead of doing thepilgrim mass.
we did tour the museum though.
(42:47):
Gabby took us on a tour of themuseum.
Utterly fantastic.
Amazing.
and then I did a tower tour thefollowing day.
I didn't realize.
That takes you up onto the roofof St.
James.
And so you can see these justwonderful views of the city and
get a much closer look at thearchitectural work that goes
(43:13):
into the cathedral from, youknow, of the towers itself and
just fantastic.
Highly recommend that.
So detailed.
I highly recommend that tour.
If you ever happen to be in thearea, it is worth seeing the
museum and the relics,throughout the ages that are,
that they keep there.
And it's definitely worthtaking.
The tower tour.
(43:34):
I also did the Portico tour,which is the old, the old facade
that was the front of thecathedral and that was, you
know, it was okay, but thatdidn't really, didn't really,
um.
Excite me as much as the museumand the towers did.
Rebecca (43:51):
So big picture, would you do it again?
Aimee (43:55):
Yeah.
Next week are you free?
Rebecca (43:58):
I know I would too.
We are talking about, Damien andI talking about maybe doing the
north route.
So that would
Aimee (44:05):
Nice.
Rebecca (44:05):
on the
Aimee (44:06):
I.
Rebecca (44:06):
of Spain, hitting a lot of the little seaside towns.
But if we do, it's gonna be atleast a year.
'cause diving back into schoolfor Damien and so
Aimee (44:16):
Right, right.
How long is that route?
Rebecca (44:22):
I believe to do the whole route takes about a month.
Aimee (44:25):
Okay.
Rebecca (44:26):
Yeah.
Aimee (44:29):
How long do you think you would, how long do you think you
would go out.
Rebecca (44:36):
I feel, so this was only six days of walking and a
total of about 72 ish miles.
I would like to double that.
I
Aimee (44:46):
Yeah.
Rebecca (44:47):
ready to do more than double, especially because was
such perfect weather and perfectconditions that I think diving
being like, oh, I could do amonth of that.
It's not going to be that.
And
Aimee (45:00):
Yes.
Rebecca (45:02):
careful.
Aimee (45:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel, I feel like doubling itis, is about right for me as
well.
I knew, I knew I could easily dothree more days after we
finished our six and, but fivedays seemed like the, the cha an
additional five days seemed likethe challenge that I think would
(45:25):
intuitively, that I think wouldkind of give me that, that
feeling of.
Um, accomplishment that, andalso leave me more, more ready,
more complete, like moreemotionally complete.
But you know, as Shane says,it's like the best, the best
amount of time to have anexperience is one where you
(45:47):
leave before you're ready to be,for it to be over.
Right.
Rebecca (45:52):
And realize how much my golden retriever energy was
actually wearing me out.
Upon returning to Paris, I didcollapse and I.
Was like, and I, I had somethings scheduled that I had to
do socially,
Aimee (46:07):
Mm.
Rebecca (46:08):
um, in French, and those were terrible choices that
I made, which did lead to bigold emotional crying moment,
which I would like to partlyblame on what I believe is
perimenopause.
But I also may have just wornmyself out.
Aimee (46:24):
Yeah, it could be both.
Rebecca (46:26):
It could be both.
Yeah, I, you know, once Gabbywasn't by my side though, I
forgot how to pace myself.
It's definitely.
Aimee (46:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's so good at that.
Yeah, I think that would be, youknow, for anyone who does do
this, that would be arecommendation that I would have
is after the Camino, don't justjump back into your normal life.
depending on how long you're outthere, give yourself at least a
couple of days to decompress ina relaxing environment.
(46:59):
Um.
Don't, don't rush onto the nextthing because it's, there's a,
there's a reintegration processI think that needs to happen
after, after you finishsomething like that.
Rebecca (47:12):
Yeah, whether or not this is a spiritual route or
just a physical route, actuallyhave little books about, you
know, how to bring the Caminohome.
So this isn't
Aimee (47:22):
Hmm.
Rebecca (47:22):
only you and I are talking about.
It's did you discover and learnon the path, and then how do you
integrate that into your life?
And if you don't, give yourselfa moment.
To, to let things gel.
I think you, I think we missedthe opportunity to the whole
gift that was waiting for us,
Aimee (47:43):
Yeah.
Rebecca (47:44):
um, and that for me, ironically, that gift was, Hey,
Rebecca, you need time afterthese adventures, stop doing
this to yourself.
Stop thinking that you can gofrom one marathon right into the
next marathon.
You need recovery time.
Aimee (48:02):
There was a very perceptible change in you the
minute we landed in Santiago andyou were thinking about work.
There was a switch that happenedand like, like it was just door
shut, start round two or startthe next thing, go and then, and
(48:24):
you were done.
From what it looked like.
It was like, oh, you were done.
Okay, I've got this meetingtonight.
And then, and it was just workmode.
Boom.
And then you were gone.
Um, which was really interestingto see that because it was like
a switch flipped.
Rebecca (48:41):
Yeah, and I, you know, sometimes you, you have talked
about disassociation when you'relike, well, I'll just deal with
that feeling separately.
Aimee (48:49):
Yeah.
Rebecca (48:50):
know if that's what I am experiencing, but I
definitely have mode and it'sbecause I feel a strong sense of
responsibility to my clients andmy students.
Aimee (49:01):
Yeah.
Rebecca (49:02):
To show up like 110%.
I don't think it's a bad thing.
don't like that I had to do iton the very final day of walking
the Camino de Santiago, but I'mokay with it as well.
It's more the lesson of, well,actually, all right, really is
(49:23):
when I saw that I had doublebooked myself, have taken the
meeting off the calendar.
I didn't, because I have anoverdeveloped sense of
responsibility, like if Ipromise something and then unpro
it, that somehow bad things willhappen, and I'm not gonna sit
(49:44):
here and pretend that I haveenough to avoid this in the
future.
But I am aware that I hadchoices and I made that choice.
Aimee (49:58):
that's good.
Yeah.
Rebecca (50:00):
I think embracing it and owning it was part of my
responsibility.
But the other part was once Iembraced it and owned it, told
Gabby that I needed wifi let itgo.
And that's, I think maybe thepart that I'm most proud of is
that I didn't hold onto thatstress
Aimee (50:18):
Right.
Rebecca (50:18):
that worry during the five other days of walking.
And
Aimee (50:22):
Yeah.
Rebecca (50:23):
accomplishment for me.
Aimee (50:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause you very easily couldhave kept your mind in Santiago
wondering what the wifisituation was going to be.
Rebecca (50:33):
Yeah, and I'm really trying hard to live now.
Aimee (50:39):
Yeah.
Rebecca (50:40):
Not yesterday, and I'm still working on that.
But being in Europe and being onthe trail are both big helpers
in this journey for me.
Aimee (50:49):
Oh, a hundred percent.
I mean, I, if you hadn't had.
This past year in France and,and dealing with the bureaucracy
of trying to get something donein Europe,
Rebecca (51:02):
Or just waiting for your lunch bill, like I was so
mealtime.
Who am I?
Aimee (51:11):
right?
Rebecca (51:12):
it in some of our compatriots, kind of the toe
tapping, are we ever going toget out of here?
And I was just like, you gottalet that go.
Aimee (51:20):
Yeah.
This is Europe, my friend, andnot only is this Europe, this is
Spain where the ESA after lunchlasts twice as long as lunch
itself.
Rebecca (51:34):
Yep.
And I loved it, but
Aimee (51:37):
yeah.
Rebecca (51:37):
my gosh, me a year ago would have been struggling.
Aimee (51:43):
Totally.
Rebecca (51:44):
We've been talking about the Camino for a while.
Is there
Aimee (51:47):
Yes.
Rebecca (51:47):
like to leave our listeners with today?
Aimee (51:50):
No, I don't think so.
I mean, just, um, if you've everconsidered it, it's absolutely
worth doing, I think.
It's a beautiful experience.
Yeah.
Rebecca (52:01):
Yeah, I would encourage you, whatever the dream is, go
put it on the calendar'causeit's worth pursuing.
Aimee (52:11):
And we'll put a link to the travel agency that we used,
or the, the tour group that weused, as well as the website for
our tour guide, Gabriela.
so that way if you want to reachout to either, it's available to
you.
Rebecca (52:28):
And there's so many things we didn't tell you, like
what did we choose for our shoesand stuff like that.
So if you guys have anyquestions for us, you know,
we're always, always, alwaysinviting you to just drop us a
message.
Happy to answer your questions.
Aimee (52:42):
Until next time folks ask the.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person, brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time.
Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Aimee
and Rebecca, who each move fromthe United States to Europe to
become expats.
Aimee to Spain and Rebecca toFrance.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure.
Encourage you to follow yourown, move abroad dreams, and
remind you that you're not alonewhen the going gets tough.
Enjoy.
Aimee (00:24):
Bon Jola, Rebecca, can I just say that I have missed you
in the like six or seven days?
I haven't seen you.
Rebecca (00:37):
Well, that's actually really adorable because for
people listening, they may notknow that we got to spend a lot
of human form time togetherbecause we did our Camino walk.
Aimee (00:47):
We did.
Rebecca (00:48):
expect you to miss me afterwards.
Given that you got a healthydose of Rebecca.
I.
Aimee (00:54):
I did.
I gotta see most sides ofRebecca.
Rebecca (00:58):
do we wanna
Aimee (00:58):
I.
Rebecca (00:58):
with the moods of the Camino or shall we give people
an overview of what the heck itis?
Aimee (01:05):
Yeah, why don't we, why don't we get everyone up to
speed and then we can talk aboutit from there.
Rebecca (01:11):
Alright, well here's my, here's how I would describe
the Camino.
The Camino is a very longpilgrimage walk that people have
been doing for many hundreds ofyears.
It has many routes, so it's notjust one path.
So Aimee and I took one of thepaths, I believe, Aimee, that we
(01:31):
were on the French route.
Aimee (01:34):
Yes, we did the last, the last 113 kilometers of the
French route.
Rebecca (01:39):
And that number is important because in order to
get a fun certificate at the endfrom the church saying you did
it, you
Aimee (01:46):
In Latin.
Rebecca (01:47):
in Latin no less, you have to do at least a hundred
kilometers and you have to dothe final leg of whatever route
you're on.
So we did.
Just over a hundred kilometersof the final leg of the French
route, leading into Santiago deCompostela where there is a
massive church just waitingcathedral.
(02:11):
I mean, it's not even worth itto call it a church.
It is this massive cathedralwaiting to greet tired pilgrims.
Is that a pretty
Aimee (02:19):
Yeah,
Rebecca (02:19):
summary?
Aimee (02:20):
I think that's a decent summary, although the pilgrimage
has been going on.
So Alfonso ii, the King ofAstoria was the first person to
make the pilgrimage to confirmthat the, that the tomb of St.
James the apostle was real.
That was more than a thousandyears ago.
I believe'cause they discovered,they discovered his tomb
(02:44):
sometime in the eight hundreds.
Some guy discovered it, youknow, another one of those
Catholic miracles of lightsemanating from the ground.
So mysterious, they found thetomb.
The guy ran to the bishop.
The bishop was like WTF, andthen ran back and confirmed it
and then went and told the kingof odious, which actually isn't
(03:05):
odious is not the province wherethe.
That's Gia.
Um, but maybe Gia didn't have aking or something.
I don't know.
Or it wasn't its own province.
I don't know.
That bit of history is unknownto me.
And then King Alfonso, thesecond walked that first
pilgrimage, which is known asthe primitive route.
(03:26):
That was the, like the og Groute confirmed it.
Word spread like wildfire.
People have been walking fromall over.
Over Europe, like all over theChristian world to northern
Spain to pay homage to what isbelieved, to be the remains of
(03:48):
the Apostle James.
Rebecca (03:50):
And what I didn't realize geographically before we
started was how far West wewould be.
So end part end point is rightabove Portugal,
Aimee (04:02):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (04:03):
falling off the continent back into the Atlantic
Ocean.
Um, you don't get all the waythere unless you take this extra
bit of the root to fiera, whichI also realized means end of the
earth ness era.
Dunno how I didn't put thattogether without being told by
our guide.
Um, but it's really remote,which I really love that aspect.
(04:27):
Like, you're coming here justlike all these people have for
apparently a thousand years
Aimee (04:32):
Yeah.
Rebecca (04:33):
specific.
Communal reason, and that feltreally exciting to me.
So we had expectations.
How did it go, Aimee?
Aimee (04:46):
Better than expected.
I expected, um, pain and it waspretty minimal for me.
I expected blisters.
There were zero I.
Uh, I expected rain.
There was none.
I also expected heat.
There was none.
It was the most perfect weather,we could have hoped for because
(05:12):
the rains that have beenhappening all spring stopped
like a day or two before westarted our route.
And then the day after wefinished it, the temperature
spiked up like 10 to 15 degrees.
So we were really damn lucky.
Rebecca (05:27):
It was like walking inside.
Of a bubble, an impossiblebubble in
Aimee (05:34):
Yeah,
Rebecca (05:34):
everything.
The weather, our physicality,our bodies.
Not everybody on our, in ourgroup was as lucky.
Aimee (05:41):
true.
Rebecca (05:41):
We had several people who seemed to have picked up a
pretty good virus on the flightover.
They were walking withpneumonia.
Aimee (05:49):
Yeah.
Rebecca (05:50):
big shout out to our compatriots who didn't have as
easy walk as we did, and acouple people got some of those
serious blisters that you would
Aimee (05:58):
Yep.
Yeah.
Rebecca (05:59):
I think Aimee would agree that don't feel like I got
tested on the route.
I felt like I was given a gifton this walk.
Aimee (06:10):
Yeah.
I didn't feel tested either.
Um, which is amusing'cause I am.
In that regard, I'm a littledisappointed.
Like I feel like, oh, I wish Ihad three to five more days to
walk, so that way I could feellike I accomplished something,
you know, which is this.
(06:30):
I guess that sort of revealsthis layer of masochism that's
inherent to my personality thatI can't just be like, yay, that
was easier than I thought.
How lucky am I?
But be like, gosh, I.
You know, don't people do thisto like bleed and suffer?
Why am I not bleeding andsuffering?
Rebecca (06:51):
Yeah,
Aimee (06:51):
Oh, you know what?
That's probably That's probablythe Catholic in me.
That's probably like CatholicDNA coming out.
If I didn't.
Rebecca (07:00):
sounds like, it
Aimee (07:01):
It does, doesn't it?
I didn't realize that was stillthere.
It needs to be exercised
Rebecca (07:07):
sounds like you have to do another walk.
Aimee (07:09):
evidently.
Yes.
Rebecca (07:10):
But a huge shout out to Gabby, who was our Chief
Experience Officer.
'cause we did a tour through GAdventures and she was there by
our side, the whole trip, uh,hurting 16 people and keeping us
all on track.
And
Aimee (07:27):
for Nima who.
Rebecca (07:28):
except for one of our team, team members who did
wander off, but much to my, oh,what do I wanna say?
I resisted the fact that shemade us stop and she made us
rest and I did not like it.
And I would say that severalother group members had that
(07:49):
same American mentality ofwanting to push through and feel
the pain, and because she showedus how to rest.
It was easier than it would'vebeen if I had, I'd been left to
my own devices and I feel likethere's a lesson there that I'm
supposed to embrace, but I'mstill resisting it.
Aimee (08:11):
Oh, you're still resisting it.
That's funny.
'cause I've been sad that Idon't have the, I.
Structure set in place for me tostop whatever's going on at like
11 o'clock and go out and sit ata cafe for 30 or 45 minutes and
(08:32):
have a coffee and then, youknow, do the two hour lunches,
right?
Like that was just, it was soSpanish, but I loved it.
I absolutely loved it.
And I know too, like one of thereasons why it was so.
Um, why it wasn't as challenge?
I won't, I can't really say itwas easy.
(08:53):
There was definitely, you know,my calves, my calves were tight.
There was one, one day where Iwas, feeling a lot of tightness
and achiness in my calves and myfeet, and I, I realized that was
because I was being stingy withmy electrolytes, which was
stupid because I did bringenough for.
The trip, but I was being reallystingy with them.
(09:18):
and you know, as soon as Istarted putting electrolytes in
my water, it was totally fine.
But my impulse, you know, at theonset also would've been just
walk 22 kilometers.
If you can walk 22 kilometersand if you need to rest to eat,
do that.
Otherwise just eat the jerky andsnacks in your bag and.
(09:40):
Hurry up and get there.
And one of the things that Ireally, really appreciate about
Gabriela was that she set thatexpectation at the onset.
The very first day she was like,here's the deal, where we're
going are are villages, some ofthem are towns.
There's not gonna be much to do,so don't rush to get there'cause
there's nothing going on.
(10:02):
And it's not like if you getthere early.
You can check into the hotelimmediately.
'cause we couldn't do that tillthree.
Right.
So there's no benefit to rushingthrough it.
And setting that expectationimmediately was so helpful for
me to just be like, right, thisis not a marathon that you've
(10:26):
signed up for.
This isn't a race.
This is just a.
Experience that you get to havewith your friend and 15
strangers that you know, many ofwhom became friends at the end
of the week.
Rebecca (10:46):
She did such an amazing job setting expectations, and
it's something that I pay sosuch close attention to when I'm
coaching because if as interiordesigners, if we don't set the
right expectations, things justcrash and burn so fast.
And one of the things Gabby didon like the very first day,
she's like.
This place where we're stayingin Madrid is a hotel on the
(11:09):
road.
They are accommodations and shemade'em sound like they were
gonna be hovels, like I
Aimee (11:15):
Right
Rebecca (11:16):
you know, be, be there with the cockroaches, whatever
this meant.
I didn't know
Aimee (11:20):
squeaky twin beds with, you know, the springs poking in
your back and
Rebecca (11:25):
but it wasn't that at all.
They
Aimee (11:26):
no.
Rebecca (11:27):
clean, they were very well tended.
I felt very safe.
I mean, you know, was it fancy?
but she, she did such a greatjob of making sure that our
expectations were appropriate,that, that she ended up
exceeding our expectations andit just eased the friction it
(11:49):
every single step, and itallowed us, I mean, it allowed
me to just kind of relax intothe experience and
Aimee (11:57):
Yeah.
Rebecca (11:58):
have to make it be something other than what it
was.
And not having anything to doother than walk was so relaxing.
Aimee (12:14):
You did not look relaxed.
You looked like a caffeinatedpuppy in the toy section of
Petco.
I mean.
Rebecca (12:24):
that is my version of relaxed.
But yeah, you would think.
I was like a cartoon character.
I was
Aimee (12:31):
She totally was.
Rebecca (12:32):
out there.
I, I mean, I was literallyskipping on the trail and I
would catch myself doing it andnot realize I had started.
I.
Aimee (12:43):
Oh, funny.
Rebecca (12:44):
Oh yeah, half the times you saw me doing that.
I would.
I would.
I just was doing it.
I was like a golden retrieverout there.
because I was finally surroundedby forest and I
Aimee (12:57):
Yeah.
Rebecca (12:58):
by forest since a long time, but partly because there
was no on me, nothing.
I had to get there and do.
Except for that one class that Idouble booked myself for at the
very end of the trail.
(13:19):
But even that was very much agiving over to the Camino,
saying the wifi will be there orit won't.
I've done what I can do andletting Gabby know that I need
it.
She has talked to the hotel.
There is literally nothing elseI can do to control this, and I
was able to let it go and it.
Aimee (13:41):
That's awesome.
And the hotel really went aboveand beyond to make sure that you
could get connected to theirwifi.
Rebecca (13:49):
He ran an entire ethernet line, and of course I
use a Mac computer, so theydon't even have those ports, but
they ran an entire ethernet lineto our room in this medieval
building where we were stayingin the ground level.
So you could see the foundationwalls were like two feet thick,
where our windows were inserted.
(14:10):
And it was the old brick wall ofthe building that was the sides
of our hotel room.
We had at least two places likethat.
Aimee (14:17):
Yeah.
Rebecca (14:18):
Oh, the intersection of history and, and just knowing
how many people had walked inthe places we were stepping.
You guys gotta do it.
If it's on your bucket list, youhave to do this.
It is amazing.
Aimee (14:37):
And we cannot recommend our guide Gabriela, highly
enough.
Rebecca (14:43):
Truly.
Aimee (14:44):
I did not think, you know, my expectation, my thought
was that our guide was going toshow up at the end, you know,
and make sure that we werechecked in, take care of us, you
know, make some recommendationsfor dinner, what have you.
Uh, but that we would be, youknow, doing the Camino solo and,
(15:05):
you know, she walked it with usand she walks with groups five
times a year, which is bothawesome and mind blowing.
I'm like, that's a great job.
That sounds incredible.
How do I get to be a guy doingthat?
And also like, wow.
Rebecca (15:25):
And she's so normal.
Aimee (15:27):
Yeah.
Rebecca (15:27):
you know, you kind of picture like people are probably
picturing some sort of like IronMan triathlete or something.
She's just a human and, and
Aimee (15:35):
She is normal.
Rebecca (15:36):
feel so accessible.
Aimee (15:40):
She does not look like she is a winner of the amazing
race.
She's, she is not a gladiator.
Rebecca (15:50):
Just a human.
Aimee (15:51):
She is just a fantastic.
Woman who is so friendly, sowelcoming, so good at making
sure everyone is okay and thattheir needs are met.
And for those in the group whoresist anybody helping out and
(16:14):
who are fiercely independent andreject help, she just gave zero
F's about that and was like,well.
I'm gonna help you anyway.
Yeah.
And her sense of humor wasfantastic.
Rebecca (16:27):
Yeah.
Um, you know, one thing I wasn'tsure about before we went on the
trail was how social it would orwouldn't be,
Aimee (16:35):
Yeah.
You were worried about that.
I.
Rebecca (16:37):
Well, aware of it because I'm not super into
humans.
Um, I found that there were twoaspects to being social.
One was the dynamics within ourgroup, and the other was the
dynamics with random humanswalking on the trail.
would you like to speak toeither of those social dynamics?
Aimee (17:00):
Yeah, the random humans on the trail, I.
I only had two interactionsreally with random people on the
trail, which I'm kind of bummedabout.
I would've liked to hear morestories, more experiences
especially, but I, I will saylike both people that I talked
to on the trail had been on thetrail for more than a month, had
(17:22):
started in the Pyrenees.
one of them who is this?
Um.
He, he was a total boomer.
He was such a boomer.
And I say that because he was ofthe age where, you know, his
glory days were the mad mendays.
(17:43):
And so he talked to women acertain way, referred to women
in a certain way that wasantiquated.
And, um.
Because I'm of a certain RA ageand not especially s flaky, I
could kinda laugh it off and belike, oh, oh, you're okay.
(18:05):
I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna dumpyou in like my grandfather cate,
like grandfather category oflike, you know, low key, well,
not even really low key, butjust sort of, you know.
Rebecca (18:20):
Sort of
Aimee (18:21):
Objectification happening, but he was, you know,
in his own way, in his own, inhis own boomer way, he was super
charming.
And he had been, he had been onthe trails since, um, April 9th
is when he started and gotcaught in a snowstorm in the
French Pyrenees.
Rebecca (18:38):
Wow.
Aimee (18:39):
Yeah.
And he was like, you know, Ispent some time in Utah, so for
me it wasn't really a big deal,but some people were super
ill-equipped and unprepared tohandle something like that.
And, and he had said how the,the people in that area when the
snowstorm came were making likemakeshift shelters for the
pilgrims who got trapped in thesnowstorm so that they could
(19:02):
kind of shelter in place until,until things settled down and
they could keep moving, but.
When we were walking, thetemperatures were in in the
seventies you know, Fahrenheitand I'm, you know, it's hard for
me to think about that situationwhere you're crossing the
Pyrenees and you have to beprepared for cold weather as
(19:26):
well as hot weather on thistrip.
And that's a lot to pack.
And some people do this withouthaving their luggage transferred
from.
Hotel to hotel or hostile tohost carrying everything.
Rebecca (19:40):
'cause
Aimee (19:41):
Yeah,
Rebecca (19:41):
things that G Adventures did for us is our big
bag was shuttled to our nexthotel each night.
So we only had to carry a daypack.
Aimee (19:50):
right.
So, yeah, exactly.
I had a first aid kit, snacksand water on me, and that's all
I carried.
But you know, if, if you'regoing to, to do this without
that luxury, then.
Everything that you need, youneed to carry on your back if
you're going to be prepared.
Otherwise, you know, you canhope that you'll find it if you
(20:12):
need it.
If something unexpected happensand there is a saying, you know,
the, the, the Camino willprovide.
Rebecca (20:19):
But you do need to at least mentally prepare.
Pair for all four seasons,because all four seasons can
happen to you on this trail,
Aimee (20:26):
Yeah.
If in, if you're doing it inspring.
Rebecca (20:29):
Mm-hmm.
I'm my, the two stories thatreally struck me were not people
that I met, but it was people inour group who met the couple
that had been walking togethersince the Pyrenees.
They were in their
Aimee (20:41):
Yeah.
Rebecca (20:42):
seventies.
And then another couple who werein their eighties, and I don't
know how long they had beentraveling, but I know that they
did one of our one day legs andit took'em three days.
the stories like that remindedme that all things are possible.
You might have to change yourpace or your expectations, that.
(21:06):
Everything is possible, andthat's so exciting for me going
into my fifties and, andremembering that you get to live
your older years like you livedyour younger years.
There's no end to the race.
You
Aimee (21:23):
Right.
Rebecca (21:23):
to walk it a little slower.
Aimee (21:25):
Right, exactly.
I can't think of anyone stateside who would, I mean, there
are always exceptions, right?
But aside from individuals whohave been active their entire
adult life and strongly identifyas an active person, most of our
(21:49):
retirees who are.
Certainly above 70.
Don't even think it is.
It's not even on their scope ofreality to do something like
that.
And you know, and I think it isprobably because we do have such
a mentality of go big or gohome.
(22:10):
And so most of us just go home,right?
But that couple, that80-year-old couple, they were
doing, three to five KA day.
They didn't have to go back towork.
So if it took them a month towalk a hundred kilometers, so be
it.
That's how they were spendingtheir time together and yeah,
(22:33):
it's fantastic.
It's fantastic.
Rebecca (22:37):
You know, speaking of the trail itself and, uh, the,
the trail providing, there are alot of towns, so I was actually
surprised by how regularly wecould access a bathroom.
That was actually reallysurprising to me.
the stretches, some of them canget a little bit long if you
have an very active bladder, butwas a lot more than I expected.
(22:59):
And then there's.
Such charming little surprisesalong the path, like bagpipers
or people that will put a waxseal stamp in your little
passport.
Aimee (23:11):
Yeah,
Rebecca (23:11):
of your favorite moments like that?
Aimee (23:14):
I was surprised about the bagpipes.
I did not know that bagpipesmade it down to Galicia and are
in fact a gian music form.
Um, that was quite a surprise.
And, uh.
Yeah, the bagpipes are veryencouraging when you're, when
you're walking and then you'rein the middle of the forest and
(23:37):
all of a sudden you hear bagpipemusic and it's like, wait a
minute.
Rebecca (23:43):
Oh, but that reminds me, do you remember that one
gift shop where it was likeeighties music and everybody was
like dancing their way
Aimee (23:50):
Oh, that was fantastic.
That was great.
Yeah.
Little things like that to justkind of pep you up and, um,
break through, you know,whatever zone or, or you know,
if it's feeling monotonous andlong to you, those things just
kind of pull you out and, andget you back to the present and
(24:13):
give you a nice, solid dose ofdopamine to, to enjoy.
Rebecca (24:20):
Um, speaking of doses, what about the food?
Aimee (24:26):
I was definitely, yeah, that's funny.
'cause by the end of it I wasreally happy not to have gian
food, like all Spanish food.
It is simple.
Simply prepared without a lot ofseasoning and so many potatoes.
So many potatoes.
Rebecca (24:46):
And a surprising amount of octopus, which I
Aimee (24:50):
Yeah.
That didn't surprise me.
That didn't surprise me at all,but yeah.
Yeah, lots, lots of potatoes,lots of, there's lots of octopus
available.
Scallops also on all the menus.
Um,
Rebecca (25:03):
different from the how they are in the United States.
They
Aimee (25:06):
yes.
Rebecca (25:06):
bright orange like appendage, which all scallops
do.
But in the United States, thatpart is usually cut off and
we're talking like post-it noteorange.
The thing is bright orange nextto that little white scallop
and, um.
So yes, you can eat it in caseyou find yourself here.
(25:26):
That is edible.
It's part of the scallop.
It
Aimee (25:29):
Yep.
Rebecca (25:29):
the scallop.
You don't have to freak out.
Aimee (25:31):
Do not have to freak out.
No.
Yeah.
Um, so the amusing thing is thatwhen I got back to Jerome and
got back into my kitchen, I.
All I've been wanting to do isuse the ingredients from the
foods that we were eating inGalicia, like I've been making
tomato salads and putting somelentils in there.
(25:54):
Um, it's so funny.
Rebecca (25:58):
Well, I'm delighted to hear you say that because I
found the same thing like whenwe were on the Camino.
I'm like really looking forwardto getting back to really
flavorful, layered food.
ever since I've been back, Ihave been craving the tuna salad
mixa, which is what I mostly hadfor lunches.
It's so simple.
(26:19):
It's so weird I can't explainit.
but I think it's so interestingthat you had the same response.
Aimee (26:28):
yeah.
I'm putting my own spin on it.
Um, you know, I'm using spinachinstead of leaf lettuce.
For the tomato salad.
But you know, I've startedadding thinly sliced red onions
to it and then I threw thelentils in'cause it's just a
little bit too warm for a lentilsoup.
so I added that into the saladand just put lemon juice and
olive oil on it and a littlesalt and that's it.
(26:50):
And that's just not how Itypically cook.
Rebecca (26:55):
It's
Aimee (26:56):
So.
It is so weird and my kid isloving it.
Like, he's like, oh mom, thissalad is great.
I'm like, cool,
Rebecca (27:03):
Nice.
Aimee (27:03):
make it again.
Rebecca (27:05):
Now, the one place where food was not simple, and
was exquisite is in at the endplace.
It's sent at, what's it called?
Aimee (27:14):
And Santiago, the compost.
Yeah.
Rebecca (27:18):
So what she, what Gabby told us is that there are, I
think 14 Michelin ratedrestaurants in I think two of
which you guys all have to checkmy numbers and they'll change
anyway, but I think two of whichare in Santiago and those
restaurants have raised the barfor all of the restaurants in
Santiago.
Aimee (27:39):
Oh,
Rebecca (27:39):
And so
Aimee (27:40):
missed this conversation.
Rebecca (27:42):
well, with Damien being a chef and all, of course I'm
always paying attention to whereto eat.
We didn't eat at a Michelinrestaurant for our final
celebration dinner, but it wasdefinitely a place where you can
see that influence of chefs whoreally care about their craft
and the scallops.
We had that night,
Aimee (28:01):
Oh, so good.
Rebecca (28:03):
but that one was off the charts delicious
Aimee (28:08):
Yeah.
Rebecca (28:09):
and still simple.
They didn't make the ingredientsfussy, but they just, they did
elevate them.
Mm So, okay, we talked about,oh, so what about the traveling
with a group?
You had never taken a tour ofany kind, as I recall, right?
(28:29):
So you
Aimee (28:30):
Yes,
Rebecca (28:30):
a tour
Aimee (28:31):
the.
The Australian family wasstunned that I had never done a
group tour before.
They were like, what?
I was like, yeah, I just, I'venever, never done that.
And, they had actually done acouple, I think, with G
Adventures before and had alwayshad a great experience.
So that was really good to hearthat.
You know, what we ended up doingwas, was not the outlier in
(28:56):
terms of excellence, but.
Actually is something that couldbe expected if you do a tour
with them.
yeah.
It was my first group tour.
I didn't really know what toexpect and I didn't think, I
didn't even think about it untilGabby had said at that
celebration dinner at the end,that when she'd gotten the
(29:16):
roster of everyone who wasenrolled and she saw that there
were 13 women in the group, thatshe was.
She was like, I better pray.
I better pray And I was like, ohmy God.
That's right.
That's a lot of estrogen doinglike a hard thing together.
It could be a total disaster.
(29:38):
And it was quite the opposite.
It was, it was fantastic andamazing and we were so good
together as a group.
I think one of the big takeawaysthat I got from the Camino was
remembering that.
That tribe of sisterhood thatI've not experienced in a really
long time, that when, gosh, whenwomen come together and they're
(30:04):
not trying to tear each otherdown, and they are self aware
and self composed enough torecognize and deal with their
own stuff when it comes up.
It's so, it's just so good andso nourishing to hang out with
women who are in that place inlife and who, who you can
(30:26):
actually just be real withrather than play all the stupid
petty little social games thatwe are coerced into playing
because of, you know, society.
Um, I mean, I certainly haven'thad an experience like that in a
good 15 years.
(30:48):
So it's, you know, it's veryuncommon and it was something
that I never expected toexperience again.
So it was really beautiful forme to remember that.
I guess remember that somethinglike that can still happen, even
though.
(31:08):
Everything is different about mylife than it was, you know, when
I experienced it before.
Rebecca (31:13):
That's gorgeous.
And I think for me, part of whyit worked so well is that a
certain kind of person wouldself-select to do a trail like
this.
You
Aimee (31:26):
Hmm.
Rebecca (31:26):
a person who is willing to challenge themselves is
willing to.
Be dirty and you know not.
Be preening themselvesconstantly, you know,'cause the
trail's not built for that.
and so immediately I wasattracted to these people.
(31:46):
And when you already kind of setthe expectation that you have
something in common, that's agreat icebreaker.
I think it's why groups likeMeetup can work so well because
you're
Aimee (31:56):
Right.
Rebecca (31:56):
together and walking a mountain with your golden
retrievers.
Like you have something to breakthe ice, but.
I also kind of feel like it waspart of that rosy otherworldly
perfection that we experienced,that everybody just clicked.
It was part of that gift fromthe universe on this
Aimee (32:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rebecca (32:22):
Um, okay,
Aimee (32:23):
Are there are, there are many opportunities on the Camino
for things to go sideways andfor, you know, people to behave
badly, right?
even if you have that sharedcommonality going into it and
that thing that can unite you.
When you're, well, for instance,when you're sick and you feel
(32:44):
like crap and the inflammationhas crossed the blood brain
barrier and is affecting yourmood, not everybody can possess
the self-control, not to lashout at others, right.
Um, when you're.
When you don't get food when youneed it, that can be a huge
liability for some personalitiesthat can impact other people.
(33:08):
And we all, you know, I thinkeverybody had moments where they
were really challenged, but, buteveryone handled it.
It wasn't, they didn't put theresponsibility to deal with it
on somebody else.
They didn't deny that it washappening and lash out, right?
(33:30):
Like everyone stayedself-regulated and aware enough
that no one else in the groupwas negatively affected if they
were having a moment.
And those of us who knew thisperson was having a moment, I
think by and large, we all kindof knew.
How much to check in, how muchto pull away.
(33:52):
Like it was the communicationand the energy bet within and
between people, from myperception and my experience was
very clear and easy to navigate.
Rebecca (34:07):
And it was, it felt very sincere
Aimee (34:10):
Yeah.
Rebecca (34:11):
and like there were no apologies.
Needed for whatever you wereexperiencing in the moment.
I remember.
Aimee (34:16):
Right.
Rebecca (34:16):
We were walking past one of our compatriots and nude
said something to her, she hadher earbuds in, and she goes,
you know, I'd like some time tomyself.
it didn't feel like a rejection.
It just felt like a statement offact.
And we all had been in thatplace.
And so giving that to the personasking for it easy, for that is
(34:37):
a really big deal.
It's something we're not good atin our regular lives to be able
to say, you know, what I needright now is X, Y, or z.
Aimee (34:44):
Yeah.
Rebecca (34:45):
That was one of the gifts that I got on the trail as
you watched me navigate whathunger actually looks like being
on the trail.
Takes a lot of the variablesaway.
In my regular life, I've got alot of different sources of
potential stress.
Will I get my Visa?
(35:06):
Is my husband being exactly theway I want him to be?
all of these things, theseemails that I need to answer.
And so when I get frustrated andcranky feeling, I can't always
isolate what's going on
Aimee (35:21):
Yeah.
Rebecca (35:21):
on the trail.
I.
There were only a few thingsgoing on, it was really easy to
identify, oh, Rebecca, you'refeeling, as we talked about a
little stabby, a little murdery,maybe that's hunger.
And to reconnect with my body ina way that was free of all of
the other inputs was reallynice.
Aimee (35:48):
Yeah, I can see how like removing the layers of
everything else in your lifewould really highlight that for
you and allow you to get intouch with, with, with what your
body needs.
I was just super excited towitness it all.
I was like, oh, look, look,look.
This is so great
Rebecca (36:09):
Food is a positive thing to put in your face.
Aimee (36:13):
I don't feel you've ever not felt that.
You've just prioritized otherthings.
Rebecca (36:18):
I've, no, it's been an up and down relationship with me
for food.
Aimee (36:21):
Hmm.
Rebecca (36:21):
I spent decades emotionally eating and, know,
twice that made me gain 30pounds over the course of three
months.
And.
Aimee (36:31):
I.
Rebecca (36:31):
I've worked really hard to separate my emotions from my
eating, but there are times whenI kind of take that, let that go
too far and I'm like, oh, I mustjust be feeling feelings.
Aimee (36:44):
Uh,
Rebecca (36:45):
out sometimes the feeling you're feeling is
hunger, and that's what I hadn'thad a moment to kind of
Aimee (36:55):
right.
That homicidal irritation isactually sometimes the hunger
cue rather than a grumblingstomach.
Rebecca (37:02):
Exactly.
Exactly.
So in the wrap up, I immediatelyleft and
Aimee (37:12):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (37:12):
Paris.
You had an extra day and thenyou went to Madrid and hung out
with the boys.
How do you feel about yourchoices about how to end it and
what advice would you
Aimee (37:22):
Mm-hmm.
I loved the extra day inSantiago.
That was really nice.
To meander a little bit to gointo some of the shops for those
who also stayed an extra day.
We, we had lunch together.
We, you know, same as theCamino, right?
We came together if we wanted toseparate, we separated.
(37:43):
And I also had, a good longstretch in the afternoon
completely by myself in thehotel room, which once I was
sitting in this stone walledtomb of silence, I was like, oh
yeah.
I needed that.
That's really good.
and you know, after about fouror five hours I was like, okay,
let's, I'm ready to see ifanybody wants to do dinner.
(38:06):
Um, Madrid, going back toMadrid, summer showed up, you
know, right after we finishedthe Camino.
So Madrid was in the nineties.
It's a big city.
There's not a lot of nature.
Didn't really need that.
Three days in Madrid, I wassuper ready.
The best part about Madrid washow ready I was to come back to
(38:29):
Gerona and how just having thatanticipation was really, really
nice.
even in Santiago, as wonderfulas Santiago is, I was like,
yeah, it's not, it's not J itjust doesn't, there's something
about this.
Town of mine that has completelyand utterly like just I'm
(38:56):
godsmack.
I I love it here.
I, this feels like where I wantto be.
Rebecca (39:01):
That's beautiful.
Aimee (39:03):
Yeah, it's really nice.
And who, like, it's still such acrazy miracle that, we're, we
did not research this town atall.
We just decided to come herebecause the school looked great
and we're like, well, we'llfigure out if the town is
(39:23):
worthwhile or not.
Barcelona is close by, so, um,you know, it was just kind of
knowing it wouldn't be as badas.
Commuting from South Everett nomatter what.
Um, and for those of you whoaren't from the Seattle area,
that's basically, having to getin the car and drive, you know,
(39:45):
20 minutes to do anythingreasonable, or an hour or two,
two hours to get into Seattle.
You know, I knew it wouldn't bethat bad, but I just didn't
think that it would be such aperfectly charming and wonderful
place to be.
Rebecca (40:01):
I'm glad you feel like you're.
Home again.
Aimee (40:03):
Yeah.
Rebecca (40:04):
I think the biggest surprise for me on the trip was
that it was very social.
Like even if we weren't engagingwith people, people were always
around and it's one of thethings Gabby, I.
Asked of us is at least have apartner so that if you get lost,
(40:25):
you don't freak out and you canbe safe.
Um, so you're never ever aloneon the Camino, which I think is
a positive, but if you'relooking for a really isolated
permit experience, that's notwhere I would go looking to find
it.
Aimee (40:42):
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think there werecertainly people who were
traveling the Camino alone andwere,, just kind of.
Putting on their, I'm solo and Iwanna stay that way, vibe as
they were walking.
But yeah, certainly if you don'twanna be around any humans at
all, a I don't, it's, it's waytoo popular a pilgrimage to, to
(41:08):
take in that situation.
Particularly the closer that youget to, to Santiago where all of
the routes meet.
'cause they're like five or sixdifferent routes.
through Europe, when they, theyall converge then, then it gets
crowded.
That said, it wasn't as crowdedas I expected.
Rebecca (41:25):
Agree, yes.
And I think, again, Gabby'sexpectation building, right?
She wanted to warn us, I guess,like we're all coming together.
I was expecting swarms of people
Aimee (41:37):
Yeah.
Rebecca (41:38):
wasn't
Aimee (41:38):
Like concert, going to a concert kind of thing.
I thought that the plaza infront of Santiago would be
filled with people.
Rebecca (41:44):
Yeah, no, not at all.
And I did not go into thechurch, so I guess we should
have you speak to that part too.
Aimee (41:53):
Yeah.
Like every great church builtduring Spanish Empire's,
heights, it is glorious.
Rebecca (42:06):
It's
Aimee (42:06):
Lots of, it's huge.
Yes, it's huge.
It's got, um.
There's a lot of gold on thealtar.
I didn't, you know, there's anopportunity to like, go
underneath the underneath, Ithink an, an altar and like hug
a statue of St.
James or something.
(42:26):
I didn't do that'cause I waslike, yeah, I'm not, I'm not
feeling that yeah, didn't,didn't feel the need to do that.
I didn't stay for the pilgrimsmass because I, that was when I
was like, yeah, actually I justneed to be, I need to go rest
and lay down and be by myself.
So I left instead of doing thepilgrim mass.
we did tour the museum though.
(42:47):
Gabby took us on a tour of themuseum.
Utterly fantastic.
Amazing.
and then I did a tower tour thefollowing day.
I didn't realize.
That takes you up onto the roofof St.
James.
And so you can see these justwonderful views of the city and
get a much closer look at thearchitectural work that goes
(43:13):
into the cathedral from, youknow, of the towers itself and
just fantastic.
Highly recommend that.
So detailed.
I highly recommend that tour.
If you ever happen to be in thearea, it is worth seeing the
museum and the relics,throughout the ages that are,
that they keep there.
And it's definitely worthtaking.
The tower tour.
(43:34):
I also did the Portico tour,which is the old, the old facade
that was the front of thecathedral and that was, you
know, it was okay, but thatdidn't really, didn't really,
um.
Excite me as much as the museumand the towers did.
Rebecca (43:51):
So big picture, would you do it again?
Aimee (43:55):
Yeah.
Next week are you free?
Rebecca (43:58):
I know I would too.
We are talking about, Damien andI talking about maybe doing the
north route.
So that would
Aimee (44:05):
Nice.
Rebecca (44:05):
on the
Aimee (44:06):
I.
Rebecca (44:06):
of Spain, hitting a lot of the little seaside towns.
But if we do, it's gonna be atleast a year.
'cause diving back into schoolfor Damien and so
Aimee (44:16):
Right, right.
How long is that route?
Rebecca (44:22):
I believe to do the whole route takes about a month.
Aimee (44:25):
Okay.
Rebecca (44:26):
Yeah.
Aimee (44:29):
How long do you think you would, how long do you think you
would go out.
Rebecca (44:36):
I feel, so this was only six days of walking and a
total of about 72 ish miles.
I would like to double that.
I
Aimee (44:46):
Yeah.
Rebecca (44:47):
ready to do more than double, especially because was
such perfect weather and perfectconditions that I think diving
being like, oh, I could do amonth of that.
It's not going to be that.
And
Aimee (45:00):
Yes.
Rebecca (45:02):
careful.
Aimee (45:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel, I feel like doubling itis, is about right for me as
well.
I knew, I knew I could easily dothree more days after we
finished our six and, but fivedays seemed like the, the cha an
additional five days seemed likethe challenge that I think would
(45:25):
intuitively, that I think wouldkind of give me that, that
feeling of.
Um, accomplishment that, andalso leave me more, more ready,
more complete, like moreemotionally complete.
But you know, as Shane says,it's like the best, the best
amount of time to have anexperience is one where you
(45:47):
leave before you're ready to be,for it to be over.
Right.
Rebecca (45:52):
And realize how much my golden retriever energy was
actually wearing me out.
Upon returning to Paris, I didcollapse and I.
Was like, and I, I had somethings scheduled that I had to
do socially,
Aimee (46:07):
Mm.
Rebecca (46:08):
um, in French, and those were terrible choices that
I made, which did lead to bigold emotional crying moment,
which I would like to partlyblame on what I believe is
perimenopause.
But I also may have just wornmyself out.
Aimee (46:24):
Yeah, it could be both.
Rebecca (46:26):
It could be both.
Yeah, I, you know, once Gabbywasn't by my side though, I
forgot how to pace myself.
It's definitely.
Aimee (46:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's so good at that.
Yeah, I think that would be, youknow, for anyone who does do
this, that would be arecommendation that I would have
is after the Camino, don't justjump back into your normal life.
depending on how long you're outthere, give yourself at least a
couple of days to decompress ina relaxing environment.
(46:59):
Um.
Don't, don't rush onto the nextthing because it's, there's a,
there's a reintegration processI think that needs to happen
after, after you finishsomething like that.
Rebecca (47:12):
Yeah, whether or not this is a spiritual route or
just a physical route, actuallyhave little books about, you
know, how to bring the Caminohome.
So this isn't
Aimee (47:22):
Hmm.
Rebecca (47:22):
only you and I are talking about.
It's did you discover and learnon the path, and then how do you
integrate that into your life?
And if you don't, give yourselfa moment.
To, to let things gel.
I think you, I think we missedthe opportunity to the whole
gift that was waiting for us,
Aimee (47:43):
Yeah.
Rebecca (47:44):
um, and that for me, ironically, that gift was, Hey,
Rebecca, you need time afterthese adventures, stop doing
this to yourself.
Stop thinking that you can gofrom one marathon right into the
next marathon.
You need recovery time.
Aimee (48:02):
There was a very perceptible change in you the
minute we landed in Santiago andyou were thinking about work.
There was a switch that happenedand like, like it was just door
shut, start round two or startthe next thing, go and then, and
(48:24):
you were done.
From what it looked like.
It was like, oh, you were done.
Okay, I've got this meetingtonight.
And then, and it was just workmode.
Boom.
And then you were gone.
Um, which was really interestingto see that because it was like
a switch flipped.
Rebecca (48:41):
Yeah, and I, you know, sometimes you, you have talked
about disassociation when you'relike, well, I'll just deal with
that feeling separately.
Aimee (48:49):
Yeah.
Rebecca (48:50):
know if that's what I am experiencing, but I
definitely have mode and it'sbecause I feel a strong sense of
responsibility to my clients andmy students.
Aimee (49:01):
Yeah.
Rebecca (49:02):
To show up like 110%.
I don't think it's a bad thing.
don't like that I had to do iton the very final day of walking
the Camino de Santiago, but I'mokay with it as well.
It's more the lesson of, well,actually, all right, really is
(49:23):
when I saw that I had doublebooked myself, have taken the
meeting off the calendar.
I didn't, because I have anoverdeveloped sense of
responsibility, like if Ipromise something and then unpro
it, that somehow bad things willhappen, and I'm not gonna sit
(49:44):
here and pretend that I haveenough to avoid this in the
future.
But I am aware that I hadchoices and I made that choice.
Aimee (49:58):
that's good.
Yeah.
Rebecca (50:00):
I think embracing it and owning it was part of my
responsibility.
But the other part was once Iembraced it and owned it, told
Gabby that I needed wifi let itgo.
And that's, I think maybe thepart that I'm most proud of is
that I didn't hold onto thatstress
Aimee (50:18):
Right.
Rebecca (50:18):
that worry during the five other days of walking.
And
Aimee (50:22):
Yeah.
Rebecca (50:23):
accomplishment for me.
Aimee (50:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause you very easily couldhave kept your mind in Santiago
wondering what the wifisituation was going to be.
Rebecca (50:33):
Yeah, and I'm really trying hard to live now.
Aimee (50:39):
Yeah.
Rebecca (50:40):
Not yesterday, and I'm still working on that.
But being in Europe and being onthe trail are both big helpers
in this journey for me.
Aimee (50:49):
Oh, a hundred percent.
I mean, I, if you hadn't had.
This past year in France and,and dealing with the bureaucracy
of trying to get something donein Europe,
Rebecca (51:02):
Or just waiting for your lunch bill, like I was so
mealtime.
Who am I?
Aimee (51:11):
right?
Rebecca (51:12):
it in some of our compatriots, kind of the toe
tapping, are we ever going toget out of here?
And I was just like, you gottalet that go.
Aimee (51:20):
Yeah.
This is Europe, my friend, andnot only is this Europe, this is
Spain where the ESA after lunchlasts twice as long as lunch
itself.
Rebecca (51:34):
Yep.
And I loved it, but
Aimee (51:37):
yeah.
Rebecca (51:37):
my gosh, me a year ago would have been struggling.
Aimee (51:43):
Totally.
Rebecca (51:44):
We've been talking about the Camino for a while.
Is there
Aimee (51:47):
Yes.
Rebecca (51:47):
like to leave our listeners with today?
Aimee (51:50):
No, I don't think so.
I mean, just, um, if you've everconsidered it, it's absolutely
worth doing, I think.
It's a beautiful experience.
Yeah.
Rebecca (52:01):
Yeah, I would encourage you, whatever the dream is, go
put it on the calendar'causeit's worth pursuing.
Aimee (52:11):
And we'll put a link to the travel agency that we used,
or the, the tour group that weused, as well as the website for
our tour guide, Gabriela.
so that way if you want to reachout to either, it's available to
you.
Rebecca (52:28):
And there's so many things we didn't tell you, like
what did we choose for our shoesand stuff like that.
So if you guys have anyquestions for us, you know,
we're always, always, alwaysinviting you to just drop us a
message.
Happy to answer your questions.
Aimee (52:42):
Until next time folks ask the.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person, brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time.
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