August 22, 2025 • 38 mins
Amazon has finally unleashed the full potential of its Goodreads acquisition, and savvy authors should be paying close attention. After years of minimal integration, Amazon has introduced a game-changing feature that transforms the Goodreads "Want-to-Read" shelf from a simple bookmarking tool into a powerful sales catalyst.
When readers browse Amazon, they'll now receive reminders about books they've added to their Goodreads Want-to-Read shelves—creating the perfect impulse buy opportunity exactly when they're already in shopping mode. For authors, this single change dramatically increases the value of Goodreads engagement, especially giveaways. With successful Goodreads giveaways averaging between 2,000-4,000 entries (each adding your book to a different Want-to-Read shelf), the $119 investment suddenly offers exponentially more marketing reach.
Ready to leverage this new connection? Tune into this informative show as Amy and Penny unpack this new feature! Don't miss this opportunity to transform casual interest into actual sales through Amazon's newest author-friendly feature.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips
and Author Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sansevierie andAmy Cornell, and we are really
excited.
This was actually a show thatAmy outlined and came up with
the idea, and we're both reallyexcited about this particular
(00:24):
topic, because Goodreads tendsto be a little bit controversial
, I know, and we're going totalk about that more in a little
bit.
But first and foremost, we wantto thank you all for ideas that
you send us.
We love your show ideas.
We love reviews.
Amy put together a very easyway to review a book and and
(00:46):
that's going to be in the shownotes to review a book oh my
gosh, listen to me To review thepodcast on iTunes, and that is
going to be.
That's in the show notes.
So we love reviews Withoutfurther ado.
You know, a handful of years agoAmazon purchased Goodreads and
(01:08):
we were all kind of holding ourbreath wondering what Amazon was
going to do with Goodreads.
You know, goodreads is this bigplatform with all these authors
and all this other stuff, andAmazon just kind of sat on
Goodreads for a long time.
I mean, we saw a couple ofminor things like Goodreads
reviews were appearing on Amazon, and then sometimes they
weren't like there.
It's not consistent.
(01:29):
You know what I mean Like um.
So I'm really thrilled to seethis latest change that we're
going to impact in this um, inthis episode, and I also think
that it's worth mentioning thatthere's a lot of Goodreads
haters out there.
Amy and I see this both onReddit, strings and things and
(01:49):
authors.
Just they hate on Goodreads andsometimes they don't even know
why.
It's just kind of like, well,everybody hates Goodreads, so I
should hate Goodreads and noteverybody actually hates
Goodreads.
They do a very robust serviceto authors.
Or complaining about the youknow the price of entry for the
(02:10):
giveaway, which, frankly, iswhat this episode is anchored to
.
I mean, amy, we see that a lotright.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, I mean yeah, like you said, it's kind of a
controversial platform, but Ithink a lot of that has to do
with expectations for what it isand what it isn't, and so
hopefully we're you know,everybody will kind of get some
reminders, refreshers and tipson that as we break down this
new announcement too.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, basically, so, theannouncement, the heart and soul
of the announcement, is thatthe Goodreads shelf, or the
Goodreads want to read shelf, isnow clickable, is accessible,
like you can click on the bookand go straight to Amazon, which
is such a cool thing, becausewhen you're running a giveaway
(03:00):
for your book, everybody whoenters has your book added to
the want to read, the Goodreadswant to read shelf and now
there's a clickable link rightthrough to Amazon.
I mean, amy, that's because youare the resident Amazon expert.
That is correct, is it not?
It's actually better than that.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, what this is doing is Amazon is actually
incorporating the want to readself on the Amazon side now.
So when people are shopping onAmazon, if somebody has a book
on their want to read shelf, nowwhen they're shopping on Amazon
, Amazon is going to remind themthat they wanted that book so
(03:40):
they could add it to their cartwhile they're already in Amazon.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Okay, but the books are clickable from Goodreads as
well, correct or no?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
That's always been the case.
Yeah, typically, amazon hasalways let you go through to
Amazon from the Goodreads.
But now, when people are justdoing their regular shopping on
Amazon, they're going to getreminders about the books that
are on their want-to-read shelfwhile they're shopping.
They're going to get remindersabout the books that are on
their want to read shelf whilethey're shopping.
So we're talking like this isAmazon Goodreads version of
impulse shopping, almost.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Right exactly, which I think is a really, really
smart thing to do, because itcreates I mean, look, it creates
a more unified shoppingexperience and discovery
experience.
But it also better unifiesGoodreads and Amazon, because
Goodreads is again, it is anextremely robust site and
(04:32):
porting those titles over toAmazon like hey, this is on your
Goodreads want to read shelf isjust so smart.
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yes and fewer clicks.
You know what I mean.
Few.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
You know what I mean fewer clicks, which is really,
which is really smart.
And now you also had a note inthe in the show notes about um.
View them along your, alongsideyour amazon saved books.
What do you mean by that?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
so this is so like your amazon list, that you can
create an Amazon.
So when you, oh God, okay.
So basically, I mean the veryshort version of this is that
Amazon is going to start pushingyour book to people that have
interacted with it on Goodreadson the Amazon side.
(05:21):
Now Got it Okay?
Goodreads has always beentrying to remind authors about
like, oh, you shelved this book,oh, you did that, you did that.
And it's like, okay, great,those reminders.
I mean it's not a bad thing,but it's a huge shift to now get
those reminders at the point ofsale.
Like people are alreadyshopping on Amazon.
(05:41):
They are there to purchasesomething, they are looking for
things and so, yeah, this islike I don't mean to repeat
myself, but this is like yourbook is now getting into that
like impulse purchase categorywhere, as people are shopping,
they're being reminded that ohyeah, that book's on my shelf.
I remember seeing that cover.
Yeah, toss it in my.
You know, let's, let's get itnow.
(06:02):
Let's check out.
You know, add it to my cart.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Well, and I think probably what Amazon discovered
because, as you said, the bookson the want to read shelf have
always been clicked or at leastin recent history have been
clickable over to Amazon I thinkprobably what Amazon discovered
is that the buy ratio directlyfrom Goodreads was probably much
lower, and so here's a betterway.
Now that we have all thesegiveaways going all the time and
(06:29):
these books are automaticallybeing shelved, here's a better,
because you know, I meanAmazon's all about Amazon.
This really benefits authors,but Amazon probably looked at
that and said we're going tomake more money doing it this
way Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Like, let's make it easier for them to add that book
to their cart and remind themwhen they are right there in the
moment already shopping forthings with the intention to buy
and spend money when you're onGoodreads, you're not.
I'm sure most users don't go toGoodreads in a shopping mode.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Right.
They're reviewing, they'rediscovering, they're checking on
their groups.
They're you know what I meanAll those other things.
They're not there to shop.
That's not really what theirfocus is for Goodreads.
And now Amazon has smartlyintegrated the two, so there's
more shopping power behindwhat's going on with Goodreads.
By integrating, you know whatpeople are interested in and
(07:23):
reminding them at the point ofsale when they're on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Well, and essentially , I mean here's Amazon just
being Amazon again.
Amazon is using Goodreads as afunnel.
Yes, amazon is using aGoodreads Goodreads as a funnel
to funnel more buyers, to funnelmore, you know, more sales,
which again benefits authors.
So if it's on you know, if it'son somebody's you know want to
read shelf and it shows up whenthey're, you know, on Amazon,
(07:48):
then I mean that's, I think, anyvisibility.
And this also I got to tell youfor all the haters out there,
this also makes that $119 entryfee for your Goodreads giveaway.
I mean I hope those prices don'tgo up.
I hope, now that I've said it,I didn't jinx everything, but
that makes it so much more Imean frankly lucrative for
(08:12):
authors, because now you'regetting this additional exposure
on Amazon that you'reessentially not paying for,
because you have to pay foreverything on Amazon.
I mean you know what I mean.
I mean you pay for ads, you do.
I mean there is no end to howmuch money that you can spend
trying to get your books visibleon Amazon.
(08:33):
119 bucks, I mean hello.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Right, yep, this is.
It's a big deal deal.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, this is a really, really big deal and I
know we're going to break down,I know we're going to talk about
action steps in a second and Ialready have a bunch of
questions for you.
But I think that you know,goodreads seemed like it was
just kind of going down thewrong track because it did
remove several author featuresin recent years which I found
like I was, I found that veryconfusing because I'm like well,
(09:07):
amazon owns you.
I mean, are they going to close?
Like at some point I thought,well, maybe they're just going
to close down Goodreads.
I mean, I know you know what Imean.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, it was scary for a while because I'm like,
what is going on here and whatis your end goal?
And, honestly, nobody asked me,nor do I have any insider info,
but I have a sneaking suspicionthat they were just getting too
many.
It was turning into too much ofa tech support thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think therewas.
Just they decided there was toomuch going on and too much for
(09:36):
authors to figure out how to use.
Yeah, which kind of bums me outa little bit.
But at the same time, I can kindof understand, like they're
like okay, what are our goalsfor this site?
What are, you know, users goalsfor this site?
What are authors goals for thissite?
And you know, maybe theydecided it wasn't to learn eight
new tricks.
You know what I mean.
(09:57):
Maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But at the time, at the time,it was really critical because
they were like okay, here's yourlist of things that authors can
do on Goodreads.
And as that list startedshrinking, it's like what's
really going on here and where'sthe tipping point going to be?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Well, and I also think that it's really high time
.
I mean, how long is I rememberbeing at Book Expo America when
Amazon bought Goodreads?
So I said it was a handful ofyears ago.
It's been more than that, yeah,I mean, I think it's maybe been
even 10 years if I'm notmistaken.
But I think it's really hightime that Amazon treats
(10:34):
Goodreads more strategically, asopposed to just this little
thing that it bought and doesn'treally know what to do with yes
, bought and doesn't really knowwhat to do with.
Right, and this, as you pointedout, this could potentially
signal, you know, even bigger,stronger tools for authors and a
you know, and a better, richerreader you know interaction.
(10:57):
I mean, hopefully they're goingto continue doing these updates
.
I think Amazon is.
I think that when Goodreadssees an uptick in giveaways
because of this, I think thatthat's going to really start to
open up the doors for Amazon todo more robust, strategic things
(11:17):
with Goodreads.
So break down the action steps.
So I'm an author, I doGoodreads giveaways for my books
.
What's changed here from that,I mean?
Or actually you know what?
Why don't you just pretend thatI'm an author that doesn't
really know what to do withGoodreads?
What do I do?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Okay, All right, no pressure.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
No pressure, Amy no pressure.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Well, and you know what's interesting and maybe
everybody listening is like what?
Amy should not be that shockedbecause Amazon owns Goodreads.
But as I'm thinking about it,I'm like you know what A lot of
what we recommend for Amazon isalso really relevant for
Goodreads, you know.
So it's not static.
So keeping your profileoptimized, keeping it complete,
(12:02):
keeping it updated you knowwe've talked about this on how
many shows Penny, when we say,like you know, if your website
says your book is coming soonand it released last June,
that's a problem, you know.
Or if your bio on Amazon saysauthor of and lists a couple of
books, but you're now on yoursixth, you know details like
that matter.
So treat your Goodreads profilebecause that is quite literally
(12:25):
part of your resume.
We talk about it all the time.
Everything you do is part ofyour resume.
It's part of your platform andit's part of your brand.
So put Goodreads when we youknow we remind y'all to do
regular updates, check in on allyour stuff, do your
housekeeping, add Goodreads tothat list and make sure that
that housekeeping is done aswell.
(12:45):
And what's really great is thatyou can engage with your want to
read shelf.
You know you can encourage yourreaders to use it.
Encourage your fans I mean, Ithink a lot of this, penny,
honestly and I realize this islike a sweeping statement but
getting used to treatingGoodreads as a really quality,
important element of youroverall platform.
(13:06):
Yes, instead of you know what Imean that cousin we don't
really want to talk to atThanksgiving, right, right?
Exactly, just kind ofincorporate Goodreads into all
those good habits that we alwaystalk about.
Encourage you guys to track andfollow up on.
You know so.
Engage with people.
Encourage your followers toengage with you on Goodreads as
(13:26):
on.
You know so.
Engage with people.
Encourage your followers toengage with you on Goodreads as
well.
You know, add a call to actionon your email list like remind
people, add it to your want toread shelf because, remember, if
it's on their want to readshelf, they will get reminders
on Amazon that they probablyshould buy this book.
You know so that is somethingthat you want to do.
To want to read is not justreserved for giveaways.
(13:48):
That is something that youshould be pushing all the time.
So you can do that on yoursocial media, on your newsletter
.
Things like that you mightthink like well, if they're on
my newsletter.
They probably already have mybook, but you never know who
they might share it with.
That's the thing too.
You know, yeah, never, never,talk yourself out of an
opportunity, right, right, right.
(14:09):
Right.
It may seem kind of redundantsometimes, but it's better.
We and we say this with reviewsall the time.
I think, penny, you always.
It doesn't hurt to remindpeople, it doesn't hurt to
remember.
You need to say things two,three, five, 10 times, because
most people mean well, but weall get busy.
Yeah, life is a real thing, andso most people that follow you,
(14:33):
support you, that are genrefans, even that don't even know
you very well yet, all are verywell-intentioned, but they need
those pushes, they need thosereminders.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's absolutely true.
Yeah, I love that idea ofengaging with your readers.
To add this to your want toread shelf, I think that's so
smart In your other books.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
For those of you listening that have more than
one book or plan to that'sanother thing, too is that this
is a habit you want to getreaders in.
They want you know what I mean.
Or in your communications andin your self-marketing and
self-promotion, you want toencourage people to add your
books to their want to readshelf.
So remember this isn't alwaysabout the book that you're
focused on right now.
(15:14):
It could be your backlist also.
You know what I mean.
That's a great way to utilizeyour newsletter and maybe one of
your backlist titles and say,hey, remember to add that next
time you're on Goodreads, add itto your want to read shelf.
Hey, remember to add that nexttime you're on Goodreads, add it
to your want to read shelf andyou can make your book.
You know you can add a clickthrough for your book onto your
(15:34):
Goodreads shelves.
You know we do that a lot forour Amazon listings.
We do that a lot for otherthings.
Make it easy for them.
Make it easy for them to clicksomething to get to your book on
Goodreads as well and then justright there.
Yeah, exactly, a lot of peoplethat use Goodreads use the app
on their phones and stuff likethat too.
You know, yeah.
So making it easy, making itclickable, one-stop.
(15:56):
You know, shopping after thosereminders.
If you have Linktree or any ofthose other apps that help you
add multiple links to yoursocial media that can send
people traffic in different ways, make sure that Goodreads is
represented there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, static.
(16:23):
If you're promoting a new book,make that the feature, but when
the newness starts to fade off,cycle through highlighting some
of your back lists, things likethat.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Well, and running a Goodreads giveaway doesn't have
to necessarily be exclusive tobrand new books either, right,
not at all, so it can reallyhelp to spike some of that
activity too either, right, notat all.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So it can really help to spike some of that activity
too.
Yes, absolutely Run regulargiveaways.
Like Penny already said,they're $119.
That is something that I thinkis absolutely worth working into
your kind of annual marketingbudget to do a handful of times
a year, for sure.
Yeah, and for those of you thataren't super familiar with
Goodreads giveaways or maybeyou've done them just to check
it off your list but don'tactually know what the full
(17:09):
benefits are I mean, goodreadsdoes remind winners to review
the book and so, depending onhow many you give away like that
may just be a handful of people, but that still doesn't hurt
Every review counts, you know.
And then entrance like we said,but I'm going to say it again
Anybody who enters to win yourbook this is not just winners
Anybody who enters to win a copyof your book gets your book on
(17:32):
their want to read list, becausethat is so freaking huge.
I got to tell you guys, rightnow we are averaging and we work
with a lot of different kindsof books, so obviously different
levels of like quote unquotemass market appeal.
But even with that in mind, weaverage between 2,000 and 4,000
(17:52):
entries for our clients'giveaways.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Isn't that amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
On a regular basis.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Isn't that?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
amazing.
Yes, and some of our massmarket genre fiction titles have
tipped over the 5,000 mark.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
That's amazing.
Now let me ask you a question.
I know we really talked aboutthis in the um in the green room
, but so when you run aGoodreads giveaway, you can
choose to do like five books or50 books, or usually, if if
(18:24):
authors are going over like the10 book number, they're usually
doing e-books.
Do you have any recommendationin terms of how many authors
should give away?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
There's a few different considerations to make
.
We love when authors test outdifferent versions.
Typically, when we work with anauthor, we do have a few
clients that we work withGoodreads giveaways, kind of
ongoing over multiple releases,some of our long-term clients,
and that is a slightly differentanimal.
Typically, though, when we workwith an author, we do one big,
(18:58):
robust Goodreads program withthem and we lean toward print
books because the author, it'seasier for the author to include
, to sign the book if they wantto, if they have them on hand,
they can include.
A note we have had ClientsPenny put together little like
gift packages of some swag andstuff with that they send their
books out with, which I think isso cool, it's so smart and it's
(19:20):
so cool and it's amazingbranding, and so the print
option, especially if you havethem on hand or willing to even
buy a few copies of your ownbook to have on hand, to put
something special together, isreally next level.
But that you know.
So we say five, but someauthors, like some of our
clients, we have a client rightnow that says let's go with 10.
(19:41):
Like, let's do it, like I'vegot books here, let's make this
big, and you know, and so itreally.
I mean I think it's fair to saylike what's in your budget,
what can you manage in terms oflogistics, what you know, what
do you have on hand, what areyou willing to do?
But then I do think that as youdo another Goodreads giveaway,
maybe three to four months downthe road, try a Kindle giveaway,
(20:01):
you know, and see what kind ofresponses you get from that,
because that's another option.
You can do print or you can doKindle.
We usually focus on print againbecause it's a lot more
personalized, but Kindle,there's nothing wrong with that.
And if you are in a genre whereyou know you know eBooks are
the preference, you know thatmight factor into whether or not
(20:24):
you do Kindle.
And then again, what's reallynice about it is that if you are
super busy with other marketingefforts or life in general, if
you do a Kindle giveaway,goodreads handles everything for
you.
They ensure that.
And it's amazing how manyauthors don't realize that.
We've had clients that are likewell, I want to do Kindle, but
(20:44):
how do I get those to thewinners and stuff like that.
Nope, they handle it all.
So they choose the winners.
The book magically appears ontheir, on their Kindle device.
It's amazing.
So there are there aredefinitely pros to both, but we
do love the personalization of aprint giveaway for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, I really love doing.
I mean I think that, um, I lovedoing.
I mean I think that I lovedoing.
I love mailing print books withsigned print books to the
winners and you pull somethingin there and you know it's not
always necessarily like a swagbag or something, but it's just
something a little bit extra.
You know you won this book whata cool, you know what a cool
thing.
And there's a note from theauthor.
(21:22):
I think that level ofpersonalization is really
fabulous.
So okay, so what's next?
So we monitor good, so yourecommend monitoring good reads
just to see if there's a spikeor what.
Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, I mean, this is just I mean and this is for the
data people, you know for sureNot all of us are data people,
but, yeah, not all of this, notall of us are data people, but
there is.
I mean, if you are a data person, it's worth watching.
After you do a giveaway, youlike check your want to read
shelf and like watch thosenumbers go up.
(22:04):
And then, after a giveaway andagain we're not sitting here
like encouraging people to likelose their minds, refreshing
their Amazon like sales numbersby any means, because we would
never you know what I mean putsomebody through that knowingly.
But it is worth seeing if,especially now that Amazon has,
you know, added this integrationin the future.
(22:26):
I think it will be worth it ifauthors take a look to see if
there is a higher correlation ofan increase in sales and in
traffic after a giveaway, basedon the fact that amazon will now
be actively reminding shoppersto purchase books that they have
engaged with on the goodreadssign, because that was not a
(22:48):
thing before.
You know yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think you know it's worthnoting that you know Kindle and
Audible.
You know where it's literallyone-click shopping.
Nobody's waiting for anythingin the mail.
Talk about impulse shopping atits finest right.
Oh, yeah, I know it.
(23:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and Ithink it's you know.
And to that point too, pennysorry, real quick like you may
have done a print giveaway, youhave your entrance, but you know
, maybe those people are Kindlereaders, maybe those people are
actually Audible readers, butthey were interested enough and
they're like, okay, if I win aprint copy, that would be cool,
but maybe they actuallygravitate toward audible anyway.
(23:32):
And so you may also notice,like, so pay attention to every,
to all of your formats acrossthe board.
Not just because you did aprint giveaway Is it going to
increase my print sales, becausesomebody you know what I mean
Like I would definitely likeconsider all of your sales
across the board, and if youeven see small spikes in other
formats, I think there's a verygood chance that you could say
(23:56):
that some of that is fromtraffic and generated interest
through this new integration.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So how often?
I mean, you know, unless youhave a whole lot, unless you
have a really robust backlist,authors are probably not running
.
You know Goodreads giveawayslike all the time, right, author
(24:30):
?
Do you have a recommendation interms of how often they should
run?
I mean, I know you like authorsto run giveaways regularly, but
is there a recommendation?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, I mean, I would say, quarterly is fair.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I think that's.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I think that's reasonable, yeah, you know I
think a quarterly giveaway isfair and you know quarterly
doesn't have to be calendar.
You know what I mean.
I think, based on your book,there might be certain times a
year where it makes more senseto run a giveaway.
You know we had a show a rerunshow recently about Christmas in
(25:00):
July and planning for Christmasand things like you know what I
mean Christmas sales and thingslike that.
So if there's something aboutyour book that ties into a
certain season or a certainholiday or anything like that,
plan your Goodreads.
So who cares if you do twoGoodreads giveaways in four
months if in that four-monthblock there are some two really
great opportunities that makesense for either your topic,
(25:23):
your genre, what your readersare looking for, things like
that, either your topic, yourgenre, what your readers are
looking for, things like thatyou know.
So there's never it's neverwrong to be strategic and just
run the giveaways during timeperiods where you think there's
an increased chance in somebodybeing super receptive to wanting
to read a book like yours atthat time, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Right, right, right, right, exactly.
And I think that this reallykind of I think for and we
referenced the Reddit string atthe beginning of the show and it
was this whole string and someguy had like a click out to a
video and there was like so manypeople commenting on there.
If, even before this happened,I was always a fan of Goodreads
(26:08):
giveaways, obviously we do themfor our authors.
We're huge fans of Goodreads.
We don't work for Goodreads orAmazon.
Let's just be clear.
We just we're.
I know we sound like we're.
I know we sound like we'regetting a commission.
Trust me, we're not.
I wish we did.
That'd be amazing.
That would be amazing, I know.
But it's really just aboutsteering authors in solid,
strategic directions andGoodreads is one of them, and
(26:30):
some of the comments were reallyaround the Goodreads value,
like what's the value of bothGoodreads?
But specifically, you know,specifically the giveaways,
specifically the giveaways.
You know specifically thegiveaways, specifically the
(26:50):
giveaways.
And one of the things that youand I talked about and you can,
you can kind of run with this isthat you know, I mean,
unfortunately, there are anumber of authors that aren't
doing things correctly, right?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Mm-hmm and I think that a lot of that sort of
colors their experience with youknow, with the Goodreads
giveaways experience, or justdon't quote, unquote like I'm
doing air quotes.
You know good reads, you knowthere's a very good chance
no-transcript, take the time toknow how to use the site
(27:36):
properly as an author, becausethere's a very good chance and
there's a reason we have thispodcast.
There's a very good chance thatsome of these authors that
aren't having a great experienceon Goodreads aren't doing all
the things correctly, and that'sfair.
But you know what I mean.
There's so much that goes.
Goodreads is super fans.
These are super readers.
This is quite literally a socialplatform for readers
(28:01):
specifically.
That's another reason we dolike it so much, because, while
there's so much you can do onother social media platforms,
people are there for a billionand one reasons that have
nothing to do with your book.
Yeah, yeah, people go toGoodreads and use Goodreads to
nerd out about books.
Yes, so it really is such acaptive audience.
(28:26):
Potentially, yeah, but becausethese are super readers and they
are there to focus on books andbook recommendations and
chatting with authors andgetting to find new books and
new authors.
They are serious, like you haveto show up with your A game
here.
So I think a lot of like Ithink you're right, penny.
I think a lot of people havemixed feelings about Goodreads
because they may have had acouple not so nice reviews
(28:48):
because, again, super fans, theyknow their stuff.
Do not show up to play in thesandbox if you're not ready, you
know.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, I think that's.
I think that's very true.
And then I also think that youknow, I mean sometimes we expect
way more from a particularstrategy than I think it can
reasonably deliver.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And you know it can reasonably deliver.
Yes, and you know, for 119bucks, um, and, and you know, in
the grand scheme of all theinvestments that you'll make in
your book, it isn't a massive,massive investment in, you know,
today's market and the otherpiece of it, though, too.
The other reason that that welike it and really wanted to do
a show about this other than thebig news, is the fact that you
(29:40):
know there isn't.
I mean, a lot of times, authorswill invest in random, weird
things online that don't reallyhave any kind of a specific
outcome.
Right, they don't have.
There's no, or deliverables, Iguess, is the word to shore,
whereas Goodreads is.
You know exactly what you'regetting Right and there's no
(30:03):
question, there's no.
So you know if we're going withjust I want to invest my money
in things that I know are kindof a sure bet.
You know exactly what you'regoing to get.
You just don't necessarily know.
So I've had authors tell me,sometimes on the phone, that I
thought everybody was going toreview my book.
I don't want to do a giveawayagain because I thought
(30:23):
everybody was going to review mybook and look if you're going
to make 2000 entries and five ofthose people review your book.
I think that's a win, right.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I mean yeah, I mean Penny think how many everybody
listening right now I would bewilling to bet if you already
have a book out, at least I.
I'm willing to bet you've soldmore books than you have reviews
to account for.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Oh, for sure, yeah, I would hope so.
Yes, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So that also they're.
You know, doing a Goodreadsgiveaway is not like the secret
way to cut the line to ensureyou get a review for every
single book that gets insomebody's hands.
If that was the case, holy moly, like everybody would be doing
these all the time and you know,a lot of other things would be
going right as well, but that'sbut.
(31:08):
You have to keep things inperspective.
So like, yeah, expectingeveryone who wins to review your
book is even an overreach, letalone people that don't win and
you hope, like well, and that'sanother part of this too that I
think people also because theydo a giveaway.
Sure, you have 2000 entrantsand they're like all right, only
10 people won.
Let me wait for those other youknow, like 1,990 people to go
(31:29):
buy my book tomorrow becausethey didn't win, and it's like
that's probably superunrealistic as well.
It doesn't mean some peoplewon't go ahead and buy and,
again, this is why this newintegration with Amazon is so
important, because now they willbe getting reminders to buy.
Before there were no reminders.
It was just that contest thatsomebody entered, you know what
(31:52):
I mean and then all of a sudden,the book falls off their radar
because they didn't win.
That is what Amazon is trying tocorrect with this is that
somebody showed an interest inthis book.
They don't want to lose thatmomentum.
So now they are going to remindpeople on the Amazon side that,
hey, you were interested inreading this book when you could
get a free one.
How about you add it to yourcart right now?
(32:13):
Look, it's only $5.99 orwhatever.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, look, it's only $5.99 orwhatever.
You know what I mean.
But that's what Amazon istrying to do.
But I do think that that'swhere a lot of the expectations
were really thrown off, and whysome people had a sour taste in
their mouth about Goodreads andespecially the reviews, is
because they're like well, Ipaid $119.
Where are all my reviews?
And why didn't I sell a bunchof books afterwards from people
who didn't get a free copy?
(32:34):
And that's just not a fair wayto look at it.
That is not how Goodreads quoteunquote sells these either.
You know what I mean.
Nobody promised you that andthen didn't deliver on it.
That is just.
I think a lot of authors havereally high expectations for
this to kind of fill in a lot ofholes for them and like close
the gaps in a lot of areas fortheir reviews and their sales.
(32:56):
I mean how fabulous would thatbe.
But Goodreads can't controlbuyer behavior any more than you
or I can.
But fortunately now Goodreadshas Amazon helping them along
with this integration andreminding people at the point of
sale that they may want to addthis book to their cart because
they were interested in itbefore.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, I think that I think it's just,
I think it's just a reallybrilliant.
I think it's a, it is a reallybrilliant addition and I mean,
you know, put on your, put onyour.
Let's look in your crystal ball, amy.
Yeah, right, where I mean?
Where do you think?
I mean, obviously, look, ittook Amazon 10 years to do this.
(33:35):
I really hope it doesn't takeanother 10 years to like, oh
well, let's just revisit this in10 years and figure out.
You know what I mean, right,exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
But yeah, I mean, I think that if Amazon is willing
to start merging, like syncingthese features, I really hope
that they have more in the worksand I really do think if they
see this working, hopefully thatmeans some of these additional,
like other changes and otherimprovements will happen even
faster, you know.
(34:05):
So I'm certainly hoping thatshoppers respond well, because I
love a reminder.
You know, I have a short-termmemory like a goldfish, so if
Amazon reminded me that I hadwanted this book on Goodreads,
and once I start getting thosereminders, I 100% am going to
end up adding some more books tomy cart Because I need a
(34:28):
reminder Again, best ofintentions, but the reminders
are key, and so I really dothink, and I would love to see
them integrate more of theirbook data, like the data that
Amazon has for authors.
It would be really nice if theycould see some of that on the
Goodreads side too and kind ofmerge some of that across the
board, because I really do thinkit would behoove Amazon for
(34:51):
more authors to use Goodreads asa way to connect with readers,
and we've done shows on this.
So I won't like get on mysoapbox right now, and when I
say that I don't mean sell yourbook to people you know.
Get on there as a fan of yourgenre we talk about that a lot,
penny like be a fan of yourgenre, read books, review books,
(35:12):
get involved in the groups,talk about books, talk about
tropes, talk about you know whatI mean Things up and coming in
genres, get involved, and Ireally do think Amazon will
benefit if authors do getinvolved on Goodreads more and I
think they'll be more inclinedto start doing more of these
syncing integrations across thetwo platforms because, as it is
(35:33):
right now, authors are reallyspectators on Amazon you know
what I mean.
Like you can do.
You can do your optimizationand do all the right things for
your first impression, butotherwise you just sit there and
wait for things to happen.
Goodreads is where you canactually get your hands involved
and get involved with readersand interact with them.
(35:55):
Readers and interact with themyeah.
So I really think Amazon needsto continue merging those two in
a way that authors feel likethere's value in the interaction
element more than they have inthe past.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, I agree with that.
And also, you know, if I canjust make a request of Amazon
not that they're going to listento me, but if I could just make
a request of Amazon like listen, if y'all are going to put the
Goodreads ratings on one book,you need to put them on all
books.
Like I don't understand whatthe problem is.
I don't know what the holdup is.
Right, exactly Because we're notseeing that consistently.
I mean, for a while we gotreally excited.
(36:28):
We're like, oh my gosh, this isgoing to be great.
But then they vanished.
Then they kind of came back andthen not all the books have
them.
So there's definitely more workto be done, but this is really
exciting.
I'm really really glad that wedid a show on this.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, I'm glad Goodreads is kind of turning
into more of a sales tool andthey're sweetening the deal for
authors to get involved, which Ilove, because it's one thing
for us to say like, get involved, we believe in you, and it's
another for Goodreads and.
Amazon to actually start givingauthors, you know, tangible
benefits like this will be.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I feel like yeah, I, I, I completely agree with you
and we hope that.
We hope that you have found theshow helpful.
Amy, this was a great, greatidea to do a show on this.
I am so, I'm so pleased Ishould let Amy just outline all
shows from now on.
Just kidding, no.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I mean, you know it's it's.
It's easy to it's easy to getexcited about something when we
have a new announcement.
You know, I love, I love thebreaking headlines.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
I know, I know we don't, we don't often get the
breaking headlines in in bookpublishing, but I I, unless
they're about Amazon doingsomething weird.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
This was Amazon doing something good.
So we all love we all lovereporting on that.
Right, listen.
We want to thank you all somuch for listening and, again,
we love reviews.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, amy has some cool, a cool
little walkthrough on how to doit on iTunes and, by the way, we
love your show ideas and yourshow feedback and all the things
, so feel free to reach out tous.
(37:58):
We have been doing this show nowfor five years and one of the
things that we just recentlystarted doing was rerunning some
content that was popular butmaybe that you missed if you
just started listening to theshow this season.
So you probably saw a few weeksago some of those shows that we
that we ran.
(38:18):
We'd love to get your feedbackon that.
Love it.
Uh, what do you think?
We're always rerunning anyshows, obviously, that we run
are ever great, so this isn'tsomething like you're not going
to get some of the amazonchanged this particular thing as
a rerun show, because a lot oftimes that is already old news.
But we welcome all of yourinput on the podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you next week.
(38:41):
Bye-bye.
Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips
and Author Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sansevierie andAmy Cornell, and we are really
excited.
This was actually a show thatAmy outlined and came up with
the idea, and we're both reallyexcited about this particular
(00:24):
topic, because Goodreads tendsto be a little bit controversial
, I know, and we're going totalk about that more in a little
bit.
But first and foremost, we wantto thank you all for ideas that
you send us.
We love your show ideas.
We love reviews.
Amy put together a very easyway to review a book and and
(00:46):
that's going to be in the shownotes to review a book oh my
gosh, listen to me To review thepodcast on iTunes, and that is
going to be.
That's in the show notes.
So we love reviews Withoutfurther ado.
You know, a handful of years agoAmazon purchased Goodreads and
(01:08):
we were all kind of holding ourbreath wondering what Amazon was
going to do with Goodreads.
You know, goodreads is this bigplatform with all these authors
and all this other stuff, andAmazon just kind of sat on
Goodreads for a long time.
I mean, we saw a couple ofminor things like Goodreads
reviews were appearing on Amazon, and then sometimes they
weren't like there.
It's not consistent.
(01:29):
You know what I mean Like um.
So I'm really thrilled to seethis latest change that we're
going to impact in this um, inthis episode, and I also think
that it's worth mentioning thatthere's a lot of Goodreads
haters out there.
Amy and I see this both onReddit, strings and things and
(01:49):
authors.
Just they hate on Goodreads andsometimes they don't even know
why.
It's just kind of like, well,everybody hates Goodreads, so I
should hate Goodreads and noteverybody actually hates
Goodreads.
They do a very robust serviceto authors.
Or complaining about the youknow the price of entry for the
(02:10):
giveaway, which, frankly, iswhat this episode is anchored to
.
I mean, amy, we see that a lotright.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, I mean yeah, like you said, it's kind of a
controversial platform, but Ithink a lot of that has to do
with expectations for what it isand what it isn't, and so
hopefully we're you know,everybody will kind of get some
reminders, refreshers and tipson that as we break down this
new announcement too.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, basically, so, theannouncement, the heart and soul
of the announcement, is thatthe Goodreads shelf, or the
Goodreads want to read shelf, isnow clickable, is accessible,
like you can click on the bookand go straight to Amazon, which
is such a cool thing, becausewhen you're running a giveaway
(03:00):
for your book, everybody whoenters has your book added to
the want to read, the Goodreadswant to read shelf and now
there's a clickable link rightthrough to Amazon.
I mean, amy, that's because youare the resident Amazon expert.
That is correct, is it not?
It's actually better than that.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, what this is doing is Amazon is actually
incorporating the want to readself on the Amazon side now.
So when people are shopping onAmazon, if somebody has a book
on their want to read shelf, nowwhen they're shopping on Amazon
, Amazon is going to remind themthat they wanted that book so
(03:40):
they could add it to their cartwhile they're already in Amazon.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Okay, but the books are clickable from Goodreads as
well, correct or no?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
That's always been the case.
Yeah, typically, amazon hasalways let you go through to
Amazon from the Goodreads.
But now, when people are justdoing their regular shopping on
Amazon, they're going to getreminders about the books that
are on their want-to-read shelfwhile they're shopping.
They're going to get remindersabout the books that are on
their want to read shelf whilethey're shopping.
So we're talking like this isAmazon Goodreads version of
impulse shopping, almost.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Right exactly, which I think is a really, really
smart thing to do, because itcreates I mean, look, it creates
a more unified shoppingexperience and discovery
experience.
But it also better unifiesGoodreads and Amazon, because
Goodreads is again, it is anextremely robust site and
(04:32):
porting those titles over toAmazon like hey, this is on your
Goodreads want to read shelf isjust so smart.
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yes and fewer clicks.
You know what I mean.
Few.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
You know what I mean fewer clicks, which is really,
which is really smart.
And now you also had a note inthe in the show notes about um.
View them along your, alongsideyour amazon saved books.
What do you mean by that?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
so this is so like your amazon list, that you can
create an Amazon.
So when you, oh God, okay.
So basically, I mean the veryshort version of this is that
Amazon is going to start pushingyour book to people that have
interacted with it on Goodreadson the Amazon side.
(05:21):
Now Got it Okay?
Goodreads has always beentrying to remind authors about
like, oh, you shelved this book,oh, you did that, you did that.
And it's like, okay, great,those reminders.
I mean it's not a bad thing,but it's a huge shift to now get
those reminders at the point ofsale.
Like people are alreadyshopping on Amazon.
(05:41):
They are there to purchasesomething, they are looking for
things and so, yeah, this islike I don't mean to repeat
myself, but this is like yourbook is now getting into that
like impulse purchase categorywhere, as people are shopping,
they're being reminded that ohyeah, that book's on my shelf.
I remember seeing that cover.
Yeah, toss it in my.
You know, let's, let's get itnow.
(06:02):
Let's check out.
You know, add it to my cart.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Well, and I think probably what Amazon discovered
because, as you said, the bookson the want to read shelf have
always been clicked or at leastin recent history have been
clickable over to Amazon I thinkprobably what Amazon discovered
is that the buy ratio directlyfrom Goodreads was probably much
lower, and so here's a betterway.
Now that we have all thesegiveaways going all the time and
(06:29):
these books are automaticallybeing shelved, here's a better,
because you know, I meanAmazon's all about Amazon.
This really benefits authors,but Amazon probably looked at
that and said we're going tomake more money doing it this
way Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Like, let's make it easier for them to add that book
to their cart and remind themwhen they are right there in the
moment already shopping forthings with the intention to buy
and spend money when you're onGoodreads, you're not.
I'm sure most users don't go toGoodreads in a shopping mode.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Right.
They're reviewing, they'rediscovering, they're checking on
their groups.
They're you know what I meanAll those other things.
They're not there to shop.
That's not really what theirfocus is for Goodreads.
And now Amazon has smartlyintegrated the two, so there's
more shopping power behindwhat's going on with Goodreads.
By integrating, you know whatpeople are interested in and
(07:23):
reminding them at the point ofsale when they're on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Well, and essentially , I mean here's Amazon just
being Amazon again.
Amazon is using Goodreads as afunnel.
Yes, amazon is using aGoodreads Goodreads as a funnel
to funnel more buyers, to funnelmore, you know, more sales,
which again benefits authors.
So if it's on you know, if it'son somebody's you know want to
read shelf and it shows up whenthey're, you know, on Amazon,
(07:48):
then I mean that's, I think, anyvisibility.
And this also I got to tell youfor all the haters out there,
this also makes that $119 entryfee for your Goodreads giveaway.
I mean I hope those prices don'tgo up.
I hope, now that I've said it,I didn't jinx everything, but
that makes it so much more Imean frankly lucrative for
(08:12):
authors, because now you'regetting this additional exposure
on Amazon that you'reessentially not paying for,
because you have to pay foreverything on Amazon.
I mean you know what I mean.
I mean you pay for ads, you do.
I mean there is no end to howmuch money that you can spend
trying to get your books visibleon Amazon.
(08:33):
119 bucks, I mean hello.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Right, yep, this is.
It's a big deal deal.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, this is a really, really big deal and I
know we're going to break down,I know we're going to talk about
action steps in a second and Ialready have a bunch of
questions for you.
But I think that you know,goodreads seemed like it was
just kind of going down thewrong track because it did
remove several author featuresin recent years which I found
like I was, I found that veryconfusing because I'm like well,
(09:07):
amazon owns you.
I mean, are they going to close?
Like at some point I thought,well, maybe they're just going
to close down Goodreads.
I mean, I know you know what Imean.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, it was scary for a while because I'm like,
what is going on here and whatis your end goal?
And, honestly, nobody asked me,nor do I have any insider info,
but I have a sneaking suspicionthat they were just getting too
many.
It was turning into too much ofa tech support thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think therewas.
Just they decided there was toomuch going on and too much for
(09:36):
authors to figure out how to use.
Yeah, which kind of bums me outa little bit.
But at the same time, I can kindof understand, like they're
like okay, what are our goalsfor this site?
What are, you know, users goalsfor this site?
What are authors goals for thissite?
And you know, maybe theydecided it wasn't to learn eight
new tricks.
You know what I mean.
(09:57):
Maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But at the time, at the time,it was really critical because
they were like okay, here's yourlist of things that authors can
do on Goodreads.
And as that list startedshrinking, it's like what's
really going on here and where'sthe tipping point going to be?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Well, and I also think that it's really high time
.
I mean, how long is I rememberbeing at Book Expo America when
Amazon bought Goodreads?
So I said it was a handful ofyears ago.
It's been more than that, yeah,I mean, I think it's maybe been
even 10 years if I'm notmistaken.
But I think it's really hightime that Amazon treats
(10:34):
Goodreads more strategically, asopposed to just this little
thing that it bought and doesn'treally know what to do with yes
, bought and doesn't really knowwhat to do with.
Right, and this, as you pointedout, this could potentially
signal, you know, even bigger,stronger tools for authors and a
you know, and a better, richerreader you know interaction.
(10:57):
I mean, hopefully they're goingto continue doing these updates
.
I think Amazon is.
I think that when Goodreadssees an uptick in giveaways
because of this, I think thatthat's going to really start to
open up the doors for Amazon todo more robust, strategic things
(11:17):
with Goodreads.
So break down the action steps.
So I'm an author, I doGoodreads giveaways for my books
.
What's changed here from that,I mean?
Or actually you know what?
Why don't you just pretend thatI'm an author that doesn't
really know what to do withGoodreads?
What do I do?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Okay, All right, no pressure.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
No pressure, Amy no pressure.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Well, and you know what's interesting and maybe
everybody listening is like what?
Amy should not be that shockedbecause Amazon owns Goodreads.
But as I'm thinking about it,I'm like you know what A lot of
what we recommend for Amazon isalso really relevant for
Goodreads, you know.
So it's not static.
So keeping your profileoptimized, keeping it complete,
(12:02):
keeping it updated you knowwe've talked about this on how
many shows Penny, when we say,like you know, if your website
says your book is coming soonand it released last June,
that's a problem, you know.
Or if your bio on Amazon saysauthor of and lists a couple of
books, but you're now on yoursixth, you know details like
that matter.
So treat your Goodreads profilebecause that is quite literally
(12:25):
part of your resume.
We talk about it all the time.
Everything you do is part ofyour resume.
It's part of your platform andit's part of your brand.
So put Goodreads when we youknow we remind y'all to do
regular updates, check in on allyour stuff, do your
housekeeping, add Goodreads tothat list and make sure that
that housekeeping is done aswell.
(12:45):
And what's really great is thatyou can engage with your want to
read shelf.
You know you can encourage yourreaders to use it.
Encourage your fans I mean, Ithink a lot of this, penny,
honestly and I realize this islike a sweeping statement but
getting used to treatingGoodreads as a really quality,
important element of youroverall platform.
(13:06):
Yes, instead of you know what Imean that cousin we don't
really want to talk to atThanksgiving, right, right?
Exactly, just kind ofincorporate Goodreads into all
those good habits that we alwaystalk about.
Encourage you guys to track andfollow up on.
You know so.
Engage with people.
Encourage your followers toengage with you on Goodreads as
(13:26):
on.
You know so.
Engage with people.
Encourage your followers toengage with you on Goodreads as
well.
You know, add a call to actionon your email list like remind
people, add it to your want toread shelf because, remember, if
it's on their want to readshelf, they will get reminders
on Amazon that they probablyshould buy this book.
You know so that is somethingthat you want to do.
To want to read is not justreserved for giveaways.
(13:48):
That is something that youshould be pushing all the time.
So you can do that on yoursocial media, on your newsletter
.
Things like that you mightthink like well, if they're on
my newsletter.
They probably already have mybook, but you never know who
they might share it with.
That's the thing too.
You know, yeah, never, never,talk yourself out of an
opportunity, right, right, right.
(14:09):
Right.
It may seem kind of redundantsometimes, but it's better.
We and we say this with reviewsall the time.
I think, penny, you always.
It doesn't hurt to remindpeople, it doesn't hurt to
remember.
You need to say things two,three, five, 10 times, because
most people mean well, but weall get busy.
Yeah, life is a real thing, andso most people that follow you,
(14:33):
support you, that are genrefans, even that don't even know
you very well yet, all are verywell-intentioned, but they need
those pushes, they need thosereminders.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's absolutely true.
Yeah, I love that idea ofengaging with your readers.
To add this to your want toread shelf, I think that's so
smart In your other books.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
For those of you listening that have more than
one book or plan to that'sanother thing, too is that this
is a habit you want to getreaders in.
They want you know what I mean.
Or in your communications andin your self-marketing and
self-promotion, you want toencourage people to add your
books to their want to readshelf.
So remember this isn't alwaysabout the book that you're
focused on right now.
(15:14):
It could be your backlist also.
You know what I mean.
That's a great way to utilizeyour newsletter and maybe one of
your backlist titles and say,hey, remember to add that next
time you're on Goodreads, add itto your want to read shelf.
Hey, remember to add that nexttime you're on Goodreads, add it
to your want to read shelf andyou can make your book.
You know you can add a clickthrough for your book onto your
(15:34):
Goodreads shelves.
You know we do that a lot forour Amazon listings.
We do that a lot for otherthings.
Make it easy for them.
Make it easy for them to clicksomething to get to your book on
Goodreads as well and then justright there.
Yeah, exactly, a lot of peoplethat use Goodreads use the app
on their phones and stuff likethat too.
You know, yeah.
So making it easy, making itclickable, one-stop.
(15:56):
You know, shopping after thosereminders.
If you have Linktree or any ofthose other apps that help you
add multiple links to yoursocial media that can send
people traffic in different ways, make sure that Goodreads is
represented there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, static.
(16:23):
If you're promoting a new book,make that the feature, but when
the newness starts to fade off,cycle through highlighting some
of your back lists, things likethat.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Well, and running a Goodreads giveaway doesn't have
to necessarily be exclusive tobrand new books either, right,
not at all, so it can reallyhelp to spike some of that
activity too either, right, notat all.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So it can really help to spike some of that activity
too.
Yes, absolutely Run regulargiveaways.
Like Penny already said,they're $119.
That is something that I thinkis absolutely worth working into
your kind of annual marketingbudget to do a handful of times
a year, for sure.
Yeah, and for those of you thataren't super familiar with
Goodreads giveaways or maybeyou've done them just to check
it off your list but don'tactually know what the full
(17:09):
benefits are I mean, goodreadsdoes remind winners to review
the book and so, depending onhow many you give away like that
may just be a handful of people, but that still doesn't hurt
Every review counts, you know.
And then entrance like we said,but I'm going to say it again
Anybody who enters to win yourbook this is not just winners
Anybody who enters to win a copyof your book gets your book on
(17:32):
their want to read list, becausethat is so freaking huge.
I got to tell you guys, rightnow we are averaging and we work
with a lot of different kindsof books, so obviously different
levels of like quote unquotemass market appeal.
But even with that in mind, weaverage between 2,000 and 4,000
(17:52):
entries for our clients'giveaways.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Isn't that amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
On a regular basis.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Isn't that?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
amazing.
Yes, and some of our massmarket genre fiction titles have
tipped over the 5,000 mark.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
That's amazing.
Now let me ask you a question.
I know we really talked aboutthis in the um in the green room
, but so when you run aGoodreads giveaway, you can
choose to do like five books or50 books, or usually, if if
(18:24):
authors are going over like the10 book number, they're usually
doing e-books.
Do you have any recommendationin terms of how many authors
should give away?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
There's a few different considerations to make
.
We love when authors test outdifferent versions.
Typically, when we work with anauthor, we do have a few
clients that we work withGoodreads giveaways, kind of
ongoing over multiple releases,some of our long-term clients,
and that is a slightly differentanimal.
Typically, though, when we workwith an author, we do one big,
(18:58):
robust Goodreads program withthem and we lean toward print
books because the author, it'seasier for the author to include
, to sign the book if they wantto, if they have them on hand,
they can include.
A note we have had ClientsPenny put together little like
gift packages of some swag andstuff with that they send their
books out with, which I think isso cool, it's so smart and it's
(19:20):
so cool and it's amazingbranding, and so the print
option, especially if you havethem on hand or willing to even
buy a few copies of your ownbook to have on hand, to put
something special together, isreally next level.
But that you know.
So we say five, but someauthors, like some of our
clients, we have a client rightnow that says let's go with 10.
(19:41):
Like, let's do it, like I'vegot books here, let's make this
big, and you know, and so itreally.
I mean I think it's fair to saylike what's in your budget,
what can you manage in terms oflogistics, what you know, what
do you have on hand, what areyou willing to do?
But then I do think that as youdo another Goodreads giveaway,
maybe three to four months downthe road, try a Kindle giveaway,
(20:01):
you know, and see what kind ofresponses you get from that,
because that's another option.
You can do print or you can doKindle.
We usually focus on print againbecause it's a lot more
personalized, but Kindle,there's nothing wrong with that.
And if you are in a genre whereyou know you know eBooks are
the preference, you know thatmight factor into whether or not
(20:24):
you do Kindle.
And then again, what's reallynice about it is that if you are
super busy with other marketingefforts or life in general, if
you do a Kindle giveaway,goodreads handles everything for
you.
They ensure that.
And it's amazing how manyauthors don't realize that.
We've had clients that are likewell, I want to do Kindle, but
(20:44):
how do I get those to thewinners and stuff like that.
Nope, they handle it all.
So they choose the winners.
The book magically appears ontheir, on their Kindle device.
It's amazing.
So there are there aredefinitely pros to both, but we
do love the personalization of aprint giveaway for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, I really love doing.
I mean I think that, um, I lovedoing.
I mean I think that I lovedoing.
I love mailing print books withsigned print books to the
winners and you pull somethingin there and you know it's not
always necessarily like a swagbag or something, but it's just
something a little bit extra.
You know you won this book whata cool, you know what a cool
thing.
And there's a note from theauthor.
(21:22):
I think that level ofpersonalization is really
fabulous.
So okay, so what's next?
So we monitor good, so yourecommend monitoring good reads
just to see if there's a spikeor what.
Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, I mean, this is just I mean and this is for the
data people, you know for sureNot all of us are data people,
but, yeah, not all of this, notall of us are data people, but
there is.
I mean, if you are a data person, it's worth watching.
After you do a giveaway, youlike check your want to read
shelf and like watch thosenumbers go up.
(22:04):
And then, after a giveaway andagain we're not sitting here
like encouraging people to likelose their minds, refreshing
their Amazon like sales numbersby any means, because we would
never you know what I mean putsomebody through that knowingly.
But it is worth seeing if,especially now that Amazon has,
you know, added this integrationin the future.
(22:26):
I think it will be worth it ifauthors take a look to see if
there is a higher correlation ofan increase in sales and in
traffic after a giveaway, basedon the fact that amazon will now
be actively reminding shoppersto purchase books that they have
engaged with on the goodreadssign, because that was not a
(22:48):
thing before.
You know yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think you know it's worthnoting that you know Kindle and
Audible.
You know where it's literallyone-click shopping.
Nobody's waiting for anythingin the mail.
Talk about impulse shopping atits finest right.
Oh, yeah, I know it.
(23:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and Ithink it's you know.
And to that point too, pennysorry, real quick like you may
have done a print giveaway, youhave your entrance, but you know
, maybe those people are Kindlereaders, maybe those people are
actually Audible readers, butthey were interested enough and
they're like, okay, if I win aprint copy, that would be cool,
but maybe they actuallygravitate toward audible anyway.
(23:32):
And so you may also notice,like, so pay attention to every,
to all of your formats acrossthe board.
Not just because you did aprint giveaway Is it going to
increase my print sales, becausesomebody you know what I mean
Like I would definitely likeconsider all of your sales
across the board, and if youeven see small spikes in other
formats, I think there's a verygood chance that you could say
(23:56):
that some of that is fromtraffic and generated interest
through this new integration.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So how often?
I mean, you know, unless youhave a whole lot, unless you
have a really robust backlist,authors are probably not running
.
You know Goodreads giveawayslike all the time, right, author
(24:30):
?
Do you have a recommendation interms of how often they should
run?
I mean, I know you like authorsto run giveaways regularly, but
is there a recommendation?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, I mean, I would say, quarterly is fair.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I think that's.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I think that's reasonable, yeah, you know I
think a quarterly giveaway isfair and you know quarterly
doesn't have to be calendar.
You know what I mean.
I think, based on your book,there might be certain times a
year where it makes more senseto run a giveaway.
You know we had a show a rerunshow recently about Christmas in
(25:00):
July and planning for Christmasand things like you know what I
mean Christmas sales and thingslike that.
So if there's something aboutyour book that ties into a
certain season or a certainholiday or anything like that,
plan your Goodreads.
So who cares if you do twoGoodreads giveaways in four
months if in that four-monthblock there are some two really
great opportunities that makesense for either your topic,
(25:23):
your genre, what your readersare looking for, things like
that, either your topic, yourgenre, what your readers are
looking for, things like thatyou know.
So there's never it's neverwrong to be strategic and just
run the giveaways during timeperiods where you think there's
an increased chance in somebodybeing super receptive to wanting
to read a book like yours atthat time, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Right, right, right, right, exactly.
And I think that this reallykind of I think for and we
referenced the Reddit string atthe beginning of the show and it
was this whole string and someguy had like a click out to a
video and there was like so manypeople commenting on there.
If, even before this happened,I was always a fan of Goodreads
(26:08):
giveaways, obviously we do themfor our authors.
We're huge fans of Goodreads.
We don't work for Goodreads orAmazon.
Let's just be clear.
We just we're.
I know we sound like we're.
I know we sound like we'regetting a commission.
Trust me, we're not.
I wish we did.
That'd be amazing.
That would be amazing, I know.
But it's really just aboutsteering authors in solid,
strategic directions andGoodreads is one of them, and
(26:30):
some of the comments were reallyaround the Goodreads value,
like what's the value of bothGoodreads?
But specifically, you know,specifically the giveaways,
specifically the giveaways.
You know specifically thegiveaways, specifically the
(26:50):
giveaways.
And one of the things that youand I talked about and you can,
you can kind of run with this isthat you know, I mean,
unfortunately, there are anumber of authors that aren't
doing things correctly, right?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Mm-hmm and I think that a lot of that sort of
colors their experience with youknow, with the Goodreads
giveaways experience, or justdon't quote, unquote like I'm
doing air quotes.
You know good reads, you knowthere's a very good chance
no-transcript, take the time toknow how to use the site
(27:36):
properly as an author, becausethere's a very good chance and
there's a reason we have thispodcast.
There's a very good chance thatsome of these authors that
aren't having a great experienceon Goodreads aren't doing all
the things correctly, and that'sfair.
But you know what I mean.
There's so much that goes.
Goodreads is super fans.
These are super readers.
This is quite literally a socialplatform for readers
(28:01):
specifically.
That's another reason we dolike it so much, because, while
there's so much you can do onother social media platforms,
people are there for a billionand one reasons that have
nothing to do with your book.
Yeah, yeah, people go toGoodreads and use Goodreads to
nerd out about books.
Yes, so it really is such acaptive audience.
(28:26):
Potentially, yeah, but becausethese are super readers and they
are there to focus on books andbook recommendations and
chatting with authors andgetting to find new books and
new authors.
They are serious, like you haveto show up with your A game
here.
So I think a lot of like Ithink you're right, penny.
I think a lot of people havemixed feelings about Goodreads
because they may have had acouple not so nice reviews
(28:48):
because, again, super fans, theyknow their stuff.
Do not show up to play in thesandbox if you're not ready, you
know.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, I think that's.
I think that's very true.
And then I also think that youknow, I mean sometimes we expect
way more from a particularstrategy than I think it can
reasonably deliver.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And you know it can reasonably deliver.
Yes, and you know, for 119bucks, um, and, and you know, in
the grand scheme of all theinvestments that you'll make in
your book, it isn't a massive,massive investment in, you know,
today's market and the otherpiece of it, though, too.
The other reason that that welike it and really wanted to do
a show about this other than thebig news, is the fact that you
(29:40):
know there isn't.
I mean, a lot of times, authorswill invest in random, weird
things online that don't reallyhave any kind of a specific
outcome.
Right, they don't have.
There's no, or deliverables, Iguess, is the word to shore,
whereas Goodreads is.
You know exactly what you'regetting Right and there's no
(30:03):
question, there's no.
So you know if we're going withjust I want to invest my money
in things that I know are kindof a sure bet.
You know exactly what you'regoing to get.
You just don't necessarily know.
So I've had authors tell me,sometimes on the phone, that I
thought everybody was going toreview my book.
I don't want to do a giveawayagain because I thought
(30:23):
everybody was going to review mybook and look if you're going
to make 2000 entries and five ofthose people review your book.
I think that's a win, right.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I mean yeah, I mean Penny think how many everybody
listening right now I would bewilling to bet if you already
have a book out, at least I.
I'm willing to bet you've soldmore books than you have reviews
to account for.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Oh, for sure, yeah, I would hope so.
Yes, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So that also they're.
You know, doing a Goodreadsgiveaway is not like the secret
way to cut the line to ensureyou get a review for every
single book that gets insomebody's hands.
If that was the case, holy moly, like everybody would be doing
these all the time and you know,a lot of other things would be
going right as well, but that'sbut.
(31:08):
You have to keep things inperspective.
So like, yeah, expectingeveryone who wins to review your
book is even an overreach, letalone people that don't win and
you hope, like well, and that'sanother part of this too that I
think people also because theydo a giveaway.
Sure, you have 2000 entrantsand they're like all right, only
10 people won.
Let me wait for those other youknow, like 1,990 people to go
(31:29):
buy my book tomorrow becausethey didn't win, and it's like
that's probably superunrealistic as well.
It doesn't mean some peoplewon't go ahead and buy and,
again, this is why this newintegration with Amazon is so
important, because now they willbe getting reminders to buy.
Before there were no reminders.
It was just that contest thatsomebody entered, you know what
(31:52):
I mean and then all of a sudden,the book falls off their radar
because they didn't win.
That is what Amazon is trying tocorrect with this is that
somebody showed an interest inthis book.
They don't want to lose thatmomentum.
So now they are going to remindpeople on the Amazon side that,
hey, you were interested inreading this book when you could
get a free one.
How about you add it to yourcart right now?
(32:13):
Look, it's only $5.99 orwhatever.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, look, it's only $5.99 orwhatever.
You know what I mean.
But that's what Amazon istrying to do.
But I do think that that'swhere a lot of the expectations
were really thrown off, and whysome people had a sour taste in
their mouth about Goodreads andespecially the reviews, is
because they're like well, Ipaid $119.
Where are all my reviews?
And why didn't I sell a bunchof books afterwards from people
who didn't get a free copy?
(32:34):
And that's just not a fair wayto look at it.
That is not how Goodreads quoteunquote sells these either.
You know what I mean.
Nobody promised you that andthen didn't deliver on it.
That is just.
I think a lot of authors havereally high expectations for
this to kind of fill in a lot ofholes for them and like close
the gaps in a lot of areas fortheir reviews and their sales.
(32:56):
I mean how fabulous would thatbe.
But Goodreads can't controlbuyer behavior any more than you
or I can.
But fortunately now Goodreadshas Amazon helping them along
with this integration andreminding people at the point of
sale that they may want to addthis book to their cart because
they were interested in itbefore.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, I think that I think it's just,
I think it's just a reallybrilliant.
I think it's a, it is a reallybrilliant addition and I mean,
you know, put on your, put onyour.
Let's look in your crystal ball, amy.
Yeah, right, where I mean?
Where do you think?
I mean, obviously, look, ittook Amazon 10 years to do this.
(33:35):
I really hope it doesn't takeanother 10 years to like, oh
well, let's just revisit this in10 years and figure out.
You know what I mean, right,exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
But yeah, I mean, I think that if Amazon is willing
to start merging, like syncingthese features, I really hope
that they have more in the worksand I really do think if they
see this working, hopefully thatmeans some of these additional,
like other changes and otherimprovements will happen even
faster, you know.
(34:05):
So I'm certainly hoping thatshoppers respond well, because I
love a reminder.
You know, I have a short-termmemory like a goldfish, so if
Amazon reminded me that I hadwanted this book on Goodreads,
and once I start getting thosereminders, I 100% am going to
end up adding some more books tomy cart Because I need a
(34:28):
reminder Again, best ofintentions, but the reminders
are key, and so I really dothink, and I would love to see
them integrate more of theirbook data, like the data that
Amazon has for authors.
It would be really nice if theycould see some of that on the
Goodreads side too and kind ofmerge some of that across the
board, because I really do thinkit would behoove Amazon for
(34:51):
more authors to use Goodreads asa way to connect with readers,
and we've done shows on this.
So I won't like get on mysoapbox right now, and when I
say that I don't mean sell yourbook to people you know.
Get on there as a fan of yourgenre we talk about that a lot,
penny like be a fan of yourgenre, read books, review books,
(35:12):
get involved in the groups,talk about books, talk about
tropes, talk about you know whatI mean Things up and coming in
genres, get involved, and Ireally do think Amazon will
benefit if authors do getinvolved on Goodreads more and I
think they'll be more inclinedto start doing more of these
syncing integrations across thetwo platforms because, as it is
(35:33):
right now, authors are reallyspectators on Amazon you know
what I mean.
Like you can do.
You can do your optimizationand do all the right things for
your first impression, butotherwise you just sit there and
wait for things to happen.
Goodreads is where you canactually get your hands involved
and get involved with readersand interact with them.
(35:55):
Readers and interact with themyeah.
So I really think Amazon needsto continue merging those two in
a way that authors feel likethere's value in the interaction
element more than they have inthe past.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, I agree with that.
And also, you know, if I canjust make a request of Amazon
not that they're going to listento me, but if I could just make
a request of Amazon like listen, if y'all are going to put the
Goodreads ratings on one book,you need to put them on all
books.
Like I don't understand whatthe problem is.
I don't know what the holdup is.
Right, exactly Because we're notseeing that consistently.
I mean, for a while we gotreally excited.
(36:28):
We're like, oh my gosh, this isgoing to be great.
But then they vanished.
Then they kind of came back andthen not all the books have
them.
So there's definitely more workto be done, but this is really
exciting.
I'm really really glad that wedid a show on this.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, I'm glad Goodreads is kind of turning
into more of a sales tool andthey're sweetening the deal for
authors to get involved, which Ilove, because it's one thing
for us to say like, get involved, we believe in you, and it's
another for Goodreads and.
Amazon to actually start givingauthors, you know, tangible
benefits like this will be.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I feel like yeah, I, I, I completely agree with you
and we hope that.
We hope that you have found theshow helpful.
Amy, this was a great, greatidea to do a show on this.
I am so, I'm so pleased Ishould let Amy just outline all
shows from now on.
Just kidding, no.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I mean, you know it's it's.
It's easy to it's easy to getexcited about something when we
have a new announcement.
You know, I love, I love thebreaking headlines.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
I know, I know we don't, we don't often get the
breaking headlines in in bookpublishing, but I I, unless
they're about Amazon doingsomething weird.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
This was Amazon doing something good.
So we all love we all lovereporting on that.
Right, listen.
We want to thank you all somuch for listening and, again,
we love reviews.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, amy has some cool, a cool
little walkthrough on how to doit on iTunes and, by the way, we
love your show ideas and yourshow feedback and all the things
, so feel free to reach out tous.
(37:58):
We have been doing this show nowfor five years and one of the
things that we just recentlystarted doing was rerunning some
content that was popular butmaybe that you missed if you
just started listening to theshow this season.
So you probably saw a few weeksago some of those shows that we
that we ran.
(38:18):
We'd love to get your feedbackon that.
Love it.
Uh, what do you think?
We're always rerunning anyshows, obviously, that we run
are ever great, so this isn'tsomething like you're not going
to get some of the amazonchanged this particular thing as
a rerun show, because a lot oftimes that is already old news.
But we welcome all of yourinput on the podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you next week.
(38:41):
Bye-bye.
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