October 31, 2025 • 31 mins
A haunted house of marketing mistakes can scare off readers faster than any bad blurb—so we flipped on the lights and started slaying. We kick things off with Frankenstein’s platform, that stitched‑together mess of tactics that feels productive but burns time and cash. From there, we pull back the curtain on werewolf branding.
We also drive a stake through the vampire vanity press. Predatory packages can lock you out of key levers and lock you into a bad publisher.
Then we unwrap the mummy mailing list. A cold, unused list is wasted gold.
We close with a practical mindset for trolls and negative reviews: fix what’s fixable, ignore what’s not your market, and keep serving the people who show up for your work.
If you’re ready to trade chaos for consistency, protect your rights, and turn seasonal scares into steady growth, this one’s for you. Subscribe, share with an author friend who needs a boost, and leave a quick review to help more writers find the show. Your support helps us keep the lights on—and the monsters out.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Halloween edition of
the Book Marketing Tips andAuthor Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sansavery.
And maybe we are so excited tocome to bring you this special
Halloween episode with all thecreepy Halloween music.
This is actually from an oldalbum that I had when I was
(00:23):
little.
I mean, I found it obviouslyonline, but um the chilling,
thrilling sounds of the hauntedhouse.
I think it was like an oldDisney album.
But welcome back.
We are so excited to have youall here.
And let me just turn this off sowe can stop all the things.
There we go.
All right.
So we are we're really so Amyactually came up with this
(00:45):
episode.
I thought this was a really,really cool idea.
Um it's a our version of aspooky edition.
And it's really, it's reallyabout diving into the monsters
that are lurking in your bookmarketing and how they how how
to slay them before they skitscare away your readers.
I thought those notes were sohilarious, Amy.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
I know the notes were so much fun.
And this I loved it, it's verycampy, it's very on the nose,
but I love a theme.
So this doing this episodeoutline, I was like, now I want
themes for everything, which wewon't do to y'all.
So don't worry.
But we're probably do more formore holidays because it was
just too much fun and it itkeeps it, it keeps a little
(01:30):
levity, you know, for somethings that can get a little
heavy, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
Um so why don't you, since you designed this episode,
why don't you come up with thefirst one?
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Okay.
So this, and again, this isawesome.
Frankenstein's platform.
So we all know, I hope everybodylistening knows the story behind
Frankenstein's monster.
But essentially, this is quiteliterally when authors stitch
together random tactics.
You know, we might try a littleblogging, you might try a little
Instagramming, or maybe you signup for TikTok, but you're like,
ugh, it freaks me out.
(02:04):
I don't really want to use it.
Some Amazon ads, but you justkind of put it together just to
say that you're doing it, whichwe fully appreciate.
It feels good to check thingsoff the list.
But if there's not anoverarching strategy, we've
talked about this before.
Things just tend not to serveyou very well.
You know, so this is kind of theit feels good to be busy, but if
(02:26):
you're not busying yourselfstrategically, then honestly,
not only is it not going toserve you well, but then you
have to imagine on the otherside of that, you have readers
that are kind of looking at abrand that really starts to come
across as sort of piecedtogether and messy, as if
there's not a continuing threadof intention.
And, you know, I love this.
(02:47):
It's scary because it wastestime and money.
Right.
It's it's that and that is thoseare two very scary things.
Like we all hate wasting timeand money.
And that's quite literally whathappens when you start to get a
little frantic and you're like,I haven't done anything.
Let me do all the things.
But again, without intention,without any sort of strategy,
without a plan to maintain itand to keep that effort going
(03:08):
long term.
And so this is whyFrankenstein's platform, stay
away from it, very scary.
Again, wasted time and money.
And I love that we have curesfor everything too.
So this is, you know, a fullcircle episode.
Audit your platform.
This is definitely where qualityover quantity makes more sense
because everything you put outthere, Penny, you say it all the
(03:30):
time.
Everything you put out there isyour resume.
Yeah.
Everything you put out there,readers are judging you, media
is judging you, thought leaders,influencers, whatever you do,
you've put out there for them tojudge.
That is their first impression.
That is what makes or breaksthem going and clicking by on
your book page.
So, not to freak you out, but itreally does all matter.
(03:52):
So you're really better offdoing things a little bit
slower, but more strategically.
You know, know who your audienceis, do things intentionally with
them in mind and the readerexperience in mind.
And make sure, you know, we'vedone tons of shows on using a
planner, tracking your efforts,tracking your data, whatever
(04:13):
works for you, but keep track ofwhat you're doing.
And that's one of the best waysto avoid Frankenstein your
platform because you can see thehistory of what you've done,
what you've accomplished, andyou can, it's so much easier to
outline what you need to donext.
SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
Yeah.
I I totally agree with this.
I love this next one, thewerewolf branding, which this
will speak to those of youlistening who have
shape-shifting werewolf tropesin your books.
This is not the same thing.
This is this is I I I love this.
I'm getting such a kick out ofthis that all the this whole
(04:48):
theme.
And you're right, we could dothemes for every episode, but we
won't, because that would startto get super weird.
Um, so the problem is when anauthor's branding looks fine in
theory by day, kind of like thewerewolf looks like normal
during the day, but it shapeshifts into something really
(05:11):
awful because as your book afteryour book is born and as the
launch transforms and youtransform as an author, all of a
sudden your website, yourcovers, your social content, and
your messaging don't match.
And we've talked about thisbefore.
In fact, you can go back to someof our branding shows and listen
(05:33):
to those if you really want todive deep into this.
It confuses readers, it lowersyour credibility, which I think
is a really big factor here,too.
I mean, obviously you don't wantto confuse your readers, but
lowering your credibility in anage where there's a book
published every eight seconds ishugely problematic.
Um, and it also makes outreachto the media and influencers
(05:55):
much less effective.
So, you know, the branding, andI know this is, you know, it's
funny because I just I'm workingon, so I finished, very excited.
I finished my book on local,doing local marketing, and now
I'm redoing five-minute bookmarketing for authors, and I'm
completely redoing this book.
And there's a section in it thatliterally takes like how you can
(06:17):
rework your brand in five-minuteincrements.
And I was really happy that youknow, I decided to redo this
book and include that because Iknow that it's an eye-rolling
topic.
Like, I get it.
When I when I do when I teachclasses and I see all, like, oh,
branding, uh, what does thatmean?
Your brand is sending a messagewhether you want it to or not.
(06:41):
So, regardless of whether youlike the term branding or even
want to spend time on the termbranding, it's still out there
and it's communicating withreaders.
And do you really like what it'ssaying?
Right?
So uh, and and the challenge toois that when authors have
mismatched covers and confusingmessages, and you know, and I'm
(07:04):
not talking about an author whowrites in a bunch of different
genres, like that's a wholedifferent topic.
What I'm talking about is anauthor who has a consistent,
like you write all nonfiction,or you write all mystery, or you
write all, you know, poetry,whatever it is.
It has to look consistent acrossthe board.
Doesn't mean that all yourcovers have to match, but they
(07:26):
have to have kind of the samevibe.
Um I love testing these beforethe launch, right?
So this is now we're on to thecures for your werewolf
branding.
If I didn't, if that didn't seemobvious.
Um, test them before the launch.
And this is why we did a showactually on this brand marketing
(07:46):
versus book marketing.
Brand marketing is when you haveno book to market, but you're
really just marketing yourbrand.
That's a really good opportunityto test all of these components
out.
And you know, things are gonna,things are gonna shape shift as
you start to grow as an author.
That's fair, right?
Our website, for example, looksnothing like the first website
(08:06):
that I designed myself, by theway, which was hideous.
Please don't look it up on theWayvack machine.
Thanks.
Um, but you know, you want tomake sure that all of your
platforms are howling the samemessage.
I love how we brought thataround.
(08:27):
Thank you.
That these this is awesome.
This is so much fun.
Oh my gosh.
All right, next one.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
Yeah, you make such a good point, Penny.
I love that because the brandingpart of it is it's so easy.
And I especially love that youmentioned because all authors,
if you stick to if you stickwith this, you will evolve, and
that's a good thing.
But you have to make sure thatyou're bringing everything that
you have behind you with you asyou evolve, you know?
Yeah.
Evolve the website, evolve yoursocial messaging, evolve your
(08:56):
banners, your email, like allthose little things, they all
matter and people notice, youknow?
So okay, so the next one, thevampire vanity press.
And this is fabulous because Ihave had some situations lately
that I've been helping someclients deal with anyway.
Predatory companies drainingauthors' wallets by making big
(09:19):
promises, or overinflating thekind of exposure they can give
them, or not revealing what howthe author's long-term uh
branding and control over theirbooks, you know what I mean?
Like that's what we see a lotof.
There's a lot of companies outthere, they're not necessarily
(09:42):
trying to do the wrong things,but they also are not about
educating authors.
So it's kind of like, well, ifyou went with them, that's what
you're locked into.
And it's not their fault thatyou don't understand how this
works, which is really scary.
You know, I find that scary.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
I find that scary too.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
You know, it and it happens a lot.
We work with a lot of clientsthat long after the fact, and
sometimes not so long,unfortunately, that run into
challenges because of who theychose to use as their publisher
or publishing service.
They find out later, I can't dothis.
I don't have access to that.
I don't know how many books I'mselling, I'm not allowed to
change my description.
(10:19):
Like all of these roadblocksthat they end up running into
just because they didn't knowthe right questions to ask.
And we've done shows on how tofind the right service providers
within publishing for differentreasons.
So definitely look that up ifyou're new or if you're thinking
of going in a differentdirection.
But the problem with this,similar, I don't know, I'm
(10:40):
getting all the money ones, butagain, this is also very costly.
You're very it's very costly.
Honestly, a lot of times what itends up doing too, it leaves
authors with unrealisticexpectations as well.
Yeah.
Because, you know, people areout there to make money.
These companies want to sellpackages, they want you in, they
want you out, they don't wantyou asking a bunch of questions.
(11:02):
Bye-bye.
Thanks so much.
Have a great life.
And unfortunately, that is nothow publishing works.
If you plan to be in thisbusiness for a while, you know
what I mean?
You need to educate yourself,you need to ask the right
questions.
They are not going to hold yourhand through everything.
And that is something to reallykeep in mind.
And a lot of times, I mean,Penny, you can speak to this
more than I can, but it getsvery complicated.
(11:24):
Some of these contracts, youknow, what you have access to,
what you don't, how long you arepotentially stuck in that
contract, how you canpotentially break it.
I mean, those are the kind ofthings that nobody listening
wants to be dealing with, right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
Well, you know, and the thing that I talked to I
talked to an author the otherday, and I just get, and you and
I know, of all of the thingsthat you and I go back and forth
on in a texturing during anygiven work day, the publisher
issues that authors face isprobably one of the biggest
conversations that we alwayshave, right?
So I talked to an author theother day, really nice guy.
(11:58):
And he has been asking hispublisher for an ebook version
of his book, an ebook version ofhis book for a year.
That is just and he's like, thepublisher won't even write me
back.
So I said, criminal, criminal.
It's criminal.
So I said, you know, and listen,if you're listening and you're
like, oh, my ears repeat becausesomething similar has happened
(12:20):
to me, I can't reach mypublisher.
Publisher's not writing himback.
Look up the other authors thatare published on the website.
There's a chance that, you know,maybe, and I don't want to get
too far off of the the you know,the notes that we have for this
particular podcast, but thepublisher may be understaffed or
in trouble, or maybe they'regetting ready to close their
doors.
(12:40):
I mean, who knows what?
I would reach out to the otherauthors on their website.
I would just go find their findtheir websites or their social
media feeds, whatever, and justsay, listen, I'm a fellow author
with XYZ Publisher.
I'm having a hard time reachingsomebody.
What's going on?
That would be that would be mysuggestion.
And then, you know, the otherthing that I told them is like,
(13:01):
you know what?
Send them an email and give thema deadline.
Like, you have until close abusiness Friday, or I'm gonna
take my file and I'm gonna turnit into an ebook.
And you know, I mean, and ifthat doesn't get them to
respond, well, then, you know,too bad, so sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
Right.
Yes, a hundred percent.
So, I mean, this is one of thosethings, again, it's hard to know
what questions to ask whenyou've never done this before.
And we get that.
And again, we've done shows onthis, so definitely listen to
those.
But, you know, I love that tip,Penny.
Research every service provider,reach out to some of their
authors, yeah.
See how it's been, you know,like how has their experience
(13:38):
been?
Any suggestions, anyrecommendations?
Another thing that we've seen alot lately, and it may not sound
like a big deal when you'refirst getting started, but I
would have very realconversations with whoever you
choose about how they work withAmazon.
How my gosh, yes.
How they work with Amazon, whatis their stance in terms of
(13:59):
making updates to your book, toyour retail page, to your
keywords?
Ask them, get that in writing,how they handle situations like
that.
Because as an author, you shouldbe able to say, I want to make
my book better.
And this is what I need to do tomake my book better.
And if they are the ones thatuploaded your book, they are the
ones that have access to dothat.
And you want it in writing thatthey will make those changes for
(14:21):
you and make those updates.
Because if you are going to besuccessful in this industry,
again, it's coming up.
Evolve.
You have to be ready to evolve.
And you can't evolve if yourbook is essentially locked, they
throw away the key, it is whatit is.
You know what I mean?
Like that's that should not beanything you should accept.
So those kind of questions areimportant to ask before you get
(14:44):
started as well.
How do you work with Amazon?
What is the process?
What are my options for makingupdates to my book in the
future?
How do you handle that?
Who do I contact?
How soon can I expect you toresolve those for me?
Like, get specific about that.
And if they push back and actlike you're asking inappropriate
questions, red flag.
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
Oh, for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
And if they work withthird-party companies to put a
book up on the Amazon, somepublishers do.
Find out the name of the thirdparty company.
Because some third-partycompanies that shall remain
nameless because we don't wantto get sued.
Um, uh, but you're welcome toemail us and we'll tell you all
(15:23):
the things.
Um, some third-party companiesare having challenges.
They'd always play well withAmazon.
So good to find out.
Ask those questions.
I love that.
I think that's you know, I thinkthat's really smart.
Um I okay, I love the next one.
The mummy mailing list.
This is so awesome.
I mean, it's not awesome.
(15:44):
We're gonna fix this problem.
But so authors who build amailing list but never use it,
leaving it wrapped up inlifeless.
I love that note.
That is great.
I know, right?
That's so fabulous.
But it's so true.
Like, okay, so you know it'skind of like what you said in
the first with the first ummonster mash scary scary, right?
(16:06):
Where you know, we dabble inthis, we dabble in that.
Oh, we know we need to do, like,oh, we need to do on TikTok.
Um, and I'm kind of guilty ofthe TikTok thing because I hate
videos so much.
And then there were peoplepretending to be me, and I was
just like, no, I'm just superbummed.
But sometimes we do dabble asauthors, right?
Like we jump, we jump here, wedon't, and the mailing list is
kind of one of them, right?
(16:27):
So you start a mailing list, andthen what happens is, and by the
way, we did a show on this.
So go back if mailing lists arelike you're thinking, like, oh
my gosh, I need to focus on mynewsletter.
We did a show on this for sure.
I don't have whenever I citethese shows, I wish that I had
exact dates.
We have a special treasure huntevery time.
It's a treasure hunt every time.
I know y'all, seriously.
And and one of our listeners, Igotta, I gotta give Amy a shout
(16:48):
out.
One of our listeners wrote us,it was, and I it was a busy,
busy, busy Monday.
And she was like, Hey, um, I I'mlooking for this episode on blah
blah.
And I'm like, Well, I'm sure youcan just search.
So I'm so helpful.
I'm usually more helpful.
It was a busy Monday.
I'm so sorry.
But then Amy had responded toher and told her the specific
(17:10):
episode and the date.
So apparently, if you want goodanswers, go to Amy because she's
a lot more helpful than me.
But we have a team member whoreally loves Excel, like loves
Excel.
I don't understand.
Like Excel just kind of scaresme.
Like I use it only becauseMicrosoft hates us.
But you know, so I'm gonna seeif if she can create an Excel
(17:33):
like directory so that when westart signing episodes, we're
like, okay, episode number 48 orwhatever, year two or something,
go back because otherwise we'regetting people emailing us, and
I am not being helpful.
So um, but we did an episode onnewsletters.
Sorry, that was a reallylong-winded way of saying we did
(17:54):
an episode on newsletter lists,and it was so if that's like
your thing, go back and find itor email Amy because she'll know
off the top of her head whichwhen we did the episode.
Um when you have a mailing list,so and the problem with mailing
lists too is that if you leaveit for too long, it becomes
harder and harder to um createan engaged or warm up your list,
(18:18):
right?
Yep.
So a cold, unengaged list withlow open rates is uh open rates
is really a is really a waste ofpotential.
And when you have so the thingabout it is though, too, is you
know, we all get hit with somuch stuff, right?
Sign up for this, sign up forthat.
And then when you do when anauthor, when a reader does sign
(18:39):
up, like that's a hugecompliment to you as an author.
So, you know, cherish that, youknow, that that list and really
take care of that list.
So if you're listening to this,you're like, oh, I haven't sent
anything.
And and don't tell me thatyou're not sending something in
between releases, because ifyour release is six months out,
(19:01):
that means that you're notcommunicating with your with
your readers for six months, andthat's a big no-no, right?
Or if your release is a yearout, even worse, right?
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
So I love that, Penny.
I think that's such a good pointwhen you said cherish those
people, because we talked abouton the newsletter show.
But I think it's worth sayingagain, because this is, I think,
very real for a lot of people,is that you have a small list,
which means you don't feel supermotivated to do anything with
it.
It's kind of like that always,like when it gets to this
number, I'll do something.
You know what I mean?
(19:29):
It's always like that next, whenit gets good enough, I'll put
more time and energy into it.
But those original shift yourthinking, those few people that
are on it now are your biggestsupporters.
Oh, for sure.
And not communicating with themis offensive.
Yeah.
These are the kind of peoplethat are most likely to
(19:51):
recommend your book to a friend,you know, are most likely to
mention you, or most likely tolike something you do on social.
Like the people that sign upearly for your lists are your
best people.
Like those are your people.
So really don't, like you said,wasted potential.
Do not let them sit there andfeel underappreciated.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Yeah, exactly.
And, you know, and the otherpiece of it though, too, is that
if you are, you know, don't waituntil you have a particular
number to start figuring out howto do how to, you know, what to
say in your newsletter.
I mean, the earlier that youstart, the earlier that you're
(20:31):
gonna get kind of a feel forwhat people respond to, you
know, even if you just have fivepeople.
Like I know that seems like alike, oh my gosh, I'm putting
all of this effort in for fivepeople.
As Amy said, those arecherished, it's offensive that
they're not getting anything.
They signed up for something.
SPEAKER_00 (20:49):
So, you know, yeah, they'll be the most
understanding, probably too,Penny, right?
Like to your point, like ifyou're gonna screw up, if you're
not gonna put out a greatnewsletter from the start, I
mean, I mean, obviously aim foryour best, but you'll figure it
out as you go.
But those are the people thatare gonna be the most
understanding.
You know, use them as yourguinea pigs because they're just
there to support you.
So it's better to do it thenthan when your list grows and
(21:13):
people are like, wow, theyreally don't have their shit
together, do they?
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
Right, exactly.
You know, so you want to focuson on the connection, not just
the sales, right?
Because a lot of times weactually have a show coming up
on this, it was inspired by aconversation that I had with an
author.
We're probably not gonna run theshow until December.
So I didn't mean to tease it soearly, but um it it is it is a
show around changing your focus,right?
(21:40):
So changing your focus, focusingon connection, not just sales.
And those five people that youhave on your newsletter list,
um, they already bought yourbook, but and they could be a
sales force that could help tobuild, bring more people to your
brand, bring more people to yourbooks, and bring more people to
your newsletter.
So uh unwrap your listperiodically, just to go back to
(22:02):
the mummy reference, becausethat's the thing that's gonna
keep it keep your always try tokeep your list warm.
Doesn't you have to send anemail newsletter out once a week
at all?
Once a month is more thanenough.
All right.
Um, so now we have so I know themini monsters were kind of
optional, but super fun.
We should definitely, I think weshould definitely do these.
(22:23):
Um, I'm gonna start off becauseI love this one.
It's all about me.
I want to start leading off withall the invisible man, because
we see this all the time, right?
An author who shows up online,who never shows up online, and
then wonder wonders why no oneknows their book exists.
So preach.
I want to almost clap for thatone.
(22:44):
I know, right?
Like it's my because it is afatal mistake and it's
something, but it's somethingthat we see all the time, right?
It's something that we see allthe time.
And nobody, you know, your bookis not the field of dreams.
Just because somebody um, justbecause you published a book
(23:04):
doesn't mean that people aregonna beat a path to your door.
You have to make that path, youhave to do all the things.
It doesn't necessarily mean youhave to be on every single
social media site.
That's not at all what we'resaying.
And we've said this ad nauseum.
Like if you've listened to usfor the last five years on these
shows, be smart about yourinteraction, be smart about
where you're spending your time,but you definitely have to show
(23:25):
up.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
100%.
Yeah.
Yes.
And so I love this one, theheadless horseman.
I love that one too.
I want to know that one too.
Yeah.
Yes.
And so this would be an authorwho is charging ahead with ads
and spending money on thingsbecause it sounds good, but they
don't have any clear targeting.
So this goes back to busy feelsproductive, but most often it is
(23:48):
not productive at all, andyou're most likely wasting
money, you know.
For sure.
Yeah.
So the headless horseman, if youare just doing the things to
check it off your list orbecause you know that's what
authors are supposed to do, youare likely wasting a lot of
money, and you're not reallythinking about how your
particular reader marketdiscovers new books.
And that's the most importantthing.
(24:09):
One, understand who your readermarket is.
We've done shows on that.
You know, you have to understandwhat they're looking for, you
have to understand the booksthat they're buying.
So doing that market research,like, okay, who, what books and
titles are doing really wellthat are in my category?
Like, who is pulling this off?
What are readers gravitatingtowards?
(24:30):
You can learn a lot from that.
But so understanding who yourreader market is is number one.
But then getting extrathoughtful about how they end up
finding books, they end upbuying and reading and
reviewing.
So, yes, ads are important,using the right targeting, using
the right keywords.
You know, there are a lot ofother places and other ways that
(24:50):
people find books, and it's not,it's not always the same across
the board for every genre ortopic by any means.
Yeah.
So really understanding how bookdiscovery works for who your
readers are is also importantbecause as Penny just said, you
don't have to do all the things,but you have to do the things
that make sense for who youraudience is and also where
(25:10):
you're at kind of in your authorjourney, where your brand is.
Are you brand new or have youbeen around for 10 years?
You know, that that kind ofaffects things too.
But really understand where youshould be and what you should be
doing and who you're targeting,and you'll save a lot of time
and money.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, the spider web of socialmedia, I love this one.
The author who gets tangledtrying to be everywhere at once,
but never builds real strengthin any one platform.
So again, and I alluded to thisin The Invisible Man, we have
we've done a lot of shows onthis.
Don't be everywhere, beeverywhere that matters.
Figuring out where your readershows up.
(25:44):
Because the other piece of itthough, too, is that when if
you're trying to be on all ofthese social media sites, it's
exhausting, right?
And yeah, you could, you know,sure, you could post the same
content across all of yourplatforms, absolutely.
But when are you gonna have thetime to engage with people,
right?
Absolutely, or to try anddetermine, and the other piece
(26:05):
of though, too, is that if youare truly gonna be on all the
platforms, different content,you know, not all the not every
piece of content is gonnaresonate the same way as like on
Facebook or Instagram orLinkedIn or like the stuff that
I post on Facebook, I wouldnever post on LinkedIn.
You know, it's it's it's just adifferent tone.
(26:27):
So reassess your social mediafor sure.
It's scary and it's gonna waste,it's it'll waste a lot of time.
And as I mentioned, we did ashow on this.
I don't remember the show.
The episode number, write toAmy, she will know off the top
of her head.
I love this last one.
I really wanted the last one.
I'm gonna have lots of commentsabout the last one.
(26:48):
Take the last one, Amy.
SPEAKER_00 (26:49):
I'm loving Okay, I love it too.
The troll under the bridge.
SPEAKER_01 (26:53):
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
I know.
And this is quite literally, youknow, we we've all we get it,
like we've all experienced it.
Hope probably a negative reviewor some sort of online critic
that spooks authors into hiding,that spooks authors into hiding
instead of staying visible forwho their readers really are.
This is so important becauseone, in case nobody, you know,
(27:17):
in places hadn't clicked yet,when you put a book out to the
world, you are quite literallyasking people to read it and
give their opinion on it.
Reviews matter.
We all want reviews.
There's nobody listening rightnow that doesn't want more book
reviews.
But believe it or not, peoplewill have different opinions on
your book.
That's just how it goes.
So I realize that's a reallytough pill to swallow sometimes,
(27:37):
but that is part of being andpublishing and being an author.
But a lot of times, unless it'ssomething very specific about
the production of the book, likelack of editing or something
like that that you were incontrol of, a lot of times you
have to just remember that thatperson may not be your target
reader.
You can't prevent them frombuying your book, you can't
(27:59):
prevent them from leaving areview.
That's how this goes.
But you have to really keep inmind and compartmentalize like,
is this my is does this personsound like one of my readers?
And do I need to take theirfeedback constructively?
Or is this just really notsomebody that I was trying to
please in the first place?
And I just have to let it go.
SPEAKER_01 (28:17):
Right, exactly.
And then, you know, the other,like, I get it.
So I remember like 25 years agowhen I published my first book,
um, I got a negative review fromsomebody who misunderstood what
the book was about.
And I was rock, I rocked in acorner.
(28:37):
And it was, you know, and itwasn't even just a negative
review on Amazon, it was anegative review on their blog,
like why they hated the book andblah, blah, blah.
And then, you know, I I mean,and I can completely understand
how that can completely deflatean author for sure.
Because it's, you know, I mean,yeah, your your writing is very
(29:00):
um, I mean, even if you'vewritten nonfiction, your writing
is very personal, right?
We pour our hearts and soulsinto our writing.
And if somebody doesn't like it,then you know, I mean, at least
for me, it makes me super sad.
And sometimes I want to hideunder a bridge like a troll.
(29:21):
I really, I gotta tell you, Ireally love these.
Um, I thought that this was sucha great idea.
And I want to remind you, firstoff, happy Halloween to
everybody.
Love Halloween.
I want to remind you, so we'vehad some signups for our
podcast.
Um so the the text alerts,rather, the text alerts for the
(29:42):
podcast.
Um, so text the word podcast.
Sorry, that didn't come outreally well.
But text the word podcast to 888402 8940.
I'll repeat that number again,which is 888 402 8940.
And you will get show updates.
But you can also like let usknow what you what you want to
(30:03):
hear, what you want to see.
Send us a text message and letus know what you want to see
more of, show ideas, things likethat.
It's a great way to communicatewith us directly.
Um, and also we are stillwaiting on our 100th review.
People, what is going on outthere?
We really want.
We actually got a really sweetnote from somebody this morning
(30:26):
who was like, I'm listening onSpotify and it's really hard to
review on Spotify.
I know some of these platformsjust don't make it very easy.
Um, but Amy has some easyinstructions in the show notes.
So leave us a review.
We really want to get to 100.
Y'all are really making us wait,right?
We want we need to get to 100before the end of the year.
Don't make us wait untilDecember 31st, because then
(30:46):
we'll be super sad.
But we'll still be excited forthe one for the 100th review.
All right.
I am so I was so um thank you somuch for joining us for this
special Halloween episode.
We're kicking our music to thecurb and we're using our spooky,
spooky, spooky Halloween music.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
(31:07):
This is Penny Sans Ferry and AmyCornell, and we will see you
next Friday.
Have a happy Halloween.
Bye bye.
Hello and welcome back to the Halloween edition of
the Book Marketing Tips andAuthor Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sansavery.
And maybe we are so excited tocome to bring you this special
Halloween episode with all thecreepy Halloween music.
This is actually from an oldalbum that I had when I was
(00:23):
little.
I mean, I found it obviouslyonline, but um the chilling,
thrilling sounds of the hauntedhouse.
I think it was like an oldDisney album.
But welcome back.
We are so excited to have youall here.
And let me just turn this off sowe can stop all the things.
There we go.
All right.
So we are we're really so Amyactually came up with this
(00:45):
episode.
I thought this was a really,really cool idea.
Um it's a our version of aspooky edition.
And it's really, it's reallyabout diving into the monsters
that are lurking in your bookmarketing and how they how how
to slay them before they skitscare away your readers.
I thought those notes were sohilarious, Amy.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
I know the notes were so much fun.
And this I loved it, it's verycampy, it's very on the nose,
but I love a theme.
So this doing this episodeoutline, I was like, now I want
themes for everything, which wewon't do to y'all.
So don't worry.
But we're probably do more formore holidays because it was
just too much fun and it itkeeps it, it keeps a little
(01:30):
levity, you know, for somethings that can get a little
heavy, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
Um so why don't you, since you designed this episode,
why don't you come up with thefirst one?
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Okay.
So this, and again, this isawesome.
Frankenstein's platform.
So we all know, I hope everybodylistening knows the story behind
Frankenstein's monster.
But essentially, this is quiteliterally when authors stitch
together random tactics.
You know, we might try a littleblogging, you might try a little
Instagramming, or maybe you signup for TikTok, but you're like,
ugh, it freaks me out.
(02:04):
I don't really want to use it.
Some Amazon ads, but you justkind of put it together just to
say that you're doing it, whichwe fully appreciate.
It feels good to check thingsoff the list.
But if there's not anoverarching strategy, we've
talked about this before.
Things just tend not to serveyou very well.
You know, so this is kind of theit feels good to be busy, but if
(02:26):
you're not busying yourselfstrategically, then honestly,
not only is it not going toserve you well, but then you
have to imagine on the otherside of that, you have readers
that are kind of looking at abrand that really starts to come
across as sort of piecedtogether and messy, as if
there's not a continuing threadof intention.
And, you know, I love this.
(02:47):
It's scary because it wastestime and money.
Right.
It's it's that and that is thoseare two very scary things.
Like we all hate wasting timeand money.
And that's quite literally whathappens when you start to get a
little frantic and you're like,I haven't done anything.
Let me do all the things.
But again, without intention,without any sort of strategy,
without a plan to maintain itand to keep that effort going
(03:08):
long term.
And so this is whyFrankenstein's platform, stay
away from it, very scary.
Again, wasted time and money.
And I love that we have curesfor everything too.
So this is, you know, a fullcircle episode.
Audit your platform.
This is definitely where qualityover quantity makes more sense
because everything you put outthere, Penny, you say it all the
(03:30):
time.
Everything you put out there isyour resume.
Yeah.
Everything you put out there,readers are judging you, media
is judging you, thought leaders,influencers, whatever you do,
you've put out there for them tojudge.
That is their first impression.
That is what makes or breaksthem going and clicking by on
your book page.
So, not to freak you out, but itreally does all matter.
(03:52):
So you're really better offdoing things a little bit
slower, but more strategically.
You know, know who your audienceis, do things intentionally with
them in mind and the readerexperience in mind.
And make sure, you know, we'vedone tons of shows on using a
planner, tracking your efforts,tracking your data, whatever
(04:13):
works for you, but keep track ofwhat you're doing.
And that's one of the best waysto avoid Frankenstein your
platform because you can see thehistory of what you've done,
what you've accomplished, andyou can, it's so much easier to
outline what you need to donext.
SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
Yeah.
I I totally agree with this.
I love this next one, thewerewolf branding, which this
will speak to those of youlistening who have
shape-shifting werewolf tropesin your books.
This is not the same thing.
This is this is I I I love this.
I'm getting such a kick out ofthis that all the this whole
(04:48):
theme.
And you're right, we could dothemes for every episode, but we
won't, because that would startto get super weird.
Um, so the problem is when anauthor's branding looks fine in
theory by day, kind of like thewerewolf looks like normal
during the day, but it shapeshifts into something really
(05:11):
awful because as your book afteryour book is born and as the
launch transforms and youtransform as an author, all of a
sudden your website, yourcovers, your social content, and
your messaging don't match.
And we've talked about thisbefore.
In fact, you can go back to someof our branding shows and listen
(05:33):
to those if you really want todive deep into this.
It confuses readers, it lowersyour credibility, which I think
is a really big factor here,too.
I mean, obviously you don't wantto confuse your readers, but
lowering your credibility in anage where there's a book
published every eight seconds ishugely problematic.
Um, and it also makes outreachto the media and influencers
(05:55):
much less effective.
So, you know, the branding, andI know this is, you know, it's
funny because I just I'm workingon, so I finished, very excited.
I finished my book on local,doing local marketing, and now
I'm redoing five-minute bookmarketing for authors, and I'm
completely redoing this book.
And there's a section in it thatliterally takes like how you can
(06:17):
rework your brand in five-minuteincrements.
And I was really happy that youknow, I decided to redo this
book and include that because Iknow that it's an eye-rolling
topic.
Like, I get it.
When I when I do when I teachclasses and I see all, like, oh,
branding, uh, what does thatmean?
Your brand is sending a messagewhether you want it to or not.
(06:41):
So, regardless of whether youlike the term branding or even
want to spend time on the termbranding, it's still out there
and it's communicating withreaders.
And do you really like what it'ssaying?
Right?
So uh, and and the challenge toois that when authors have
mismatched covers and confusingmessages, and you know, and I'm
(07:04):
not talking about an author whowrites in a bunch of different
genres, like that's a wholedifferent topic.
What I'm talking about is anauthor who has a consistent,
like you write all nonfiction,or you write all mystery, or you
write all, you know, poetry,whatever it is.
It has to look consistent acrossthe board.
Doesn't mean that all yourcovers have to match, but they
(07:26):
have to have kind of the samevibe.
Um I love testing these beforethe launch, right?
So this is now we're on to thecures for your werewolf
branding.
If I didn't, if that didn't seemobvious.
Um, test them before the launch.
And this is why we did a showactually on this brand marketing
(07:46):
versus book marketing.
Brand marketing is when you haveno book to market, but you're
really just marketing yourbrand.
That's a really good opportunityto test all of these components
out.
And you know, things are gonna,things are gonna shape shift as
you start to grow as an author.
That's fair, right?
Our website, for example, looksnothing like the first website
(08:06):
that I designed myself, by theway, which was hideous.
Please don't look it up on theWayvack machine.
Thanks.
Um, but you know, you want tomake sure that all of your
platforms are howling the samemessage.
I love how we brought thataround.
(08:27):
Thank you.
That these this is awesome.
This is so much fun.
Oh my gosh.
All right, next one.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
Yeah, you make such a good point, Penny.
I love that because the brandingpart of it is it's so easy.
And I especially love that youmentioned because all authors,
if you stick to if you stickwith this, you will evolve, and
that's a good thing.
But you have to make sure thatyou're bringing everything that
you have behind you with you asyou evolve, you know?
Yeah.
Evolve the website, evolve yoursocial messaging, evolve your
(08:56):
banners, your email, like allthose little things, they all
matter and people notice, youknow?
So okay, so the next one, thevampire vanity press.
And this is fabulous because Ihave had some situations lately
that I've been helping someclients deal with anyway.
Predatory companies drainingauthors' wallets by making big
(09:19):
promises, or overinflating thekind of exposure they can give
them, or not revealing what howthe author's long-term uh
branding and control over theirbooks, you know what I mean?
Like that's what we see a lotof.
There's a lot of companies outthere, they're not necessarily
(09:42):
trying to do the wrong things,but they also are not about
educating authors.
So it's kind of like, well, ifyou went with them, that's what
you're locked into.
And it's not their fault thatyou don't understand how this
works, which is really scary.
You know, I find that scary.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
I find that scary too.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
You know, it and it happens a lot.
We work with a lot of clientsthat long after the fact, and
sometimes not so long,unfortunately, that run into
challenges because of who theychose to use as their publisher
or publishing service.
They find out later, I can't dothis.
I don't have access to that.
I don't know how many books I'mselling, I'm not allowed to
change my description.
(10:19):
Like all of these roadblocksthat they end up running into
just because they didn't knowthe right questions to ask.
And we've done shows on how tofind the right service providers
within publishing for differentreasons.
So definitely look that up ifyou're new or if you're thinking
of going in a differentdirection.
But the problem with this,similar, I don't know, I'm
(10:40):
getting all the money ones, butagain, this is also very costly.
You're very it's very costly.
Honestly, a lot of times what itends up doing too, it leaves
authors with unrealisticexpectations as well.
Yeah.
Because, you know, people areout there to make money.
These companies want to sellpackages, they want you in, they
want you out, they don't wantyou asking a bunch of questions.
(11:02):
Bye-bye.
Thanks so much.
Have a great life.
And unfortunately, that is nothow publishing works.
If you plan to be in thisbusiness for a while, you know
what I mean?
You need to educate yourself,you need to ask the right
questions.
They are not going to hold yourhand through everything.
And that is something to reallykeep in mind.
And a lot of times, I mean,Penny, you can speak to this
more than I can, but it getsvery complicated.
(11:24):
Some of these contracts, youknow, what you have access to,
what you don't, how long you arepotentially stuck in that
contract, how you canpotentially break it.
I mean, those are the kind ofthings that nobody listening
wants to be dealing with, right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
Well, you know, and the thing that I talked to I
talked to an author the otherday, and I just get, and you and
I know, of all of the thingsthat you and I go back and forth
on in a texturing during anygiven work day, the publisher
issues that authors face isprobably one of the biggest
conversations that we alwayshave, right?
So I talked to an author theother day, really nice guy.
(11:58):
And he has been asking hispublisher for an ebook version
of his book, an ebook version ofhis book for a year.
That is just and he's like, thepublisher won't even write me
back.
So I said, criminal, criminal.
It's criminal.
So I said, you know, and listen,if you're listening and you're
like, oh, my ears repeat becausesomething similar has happened
(12:20):
to me, I can't reach mypublisher.
Publisher's not writing himback.
Look up the other authors thatare published on the website.
There's a chance that, you know,maybe, and I don't want to get
too far off of the the you know,the notes that we have for this
particular podcast, but thepublisher may be understaffed or
in trouble, or maybe they'regetting ready to close their
doors.
(12:40):
I mean, who knows what?
I would reach out to the otherauthors on their website.
I would just go find their findtheir websites or their social
media feeds, whatever, and justsay, listen, I'm a fellow author
with XYZ Publisher.
I'm having a hard time reachingsomebody.
What's going on?
That would be that would be mysuggestion.
And then, you know, the otherthing that I told them is like,
(13:01):
you know what?
Send them an email and give thema deadline.
Like, you have until close abusiness Friday, or I'm gonna
take my file and I'm gonna turnit into an ebook.
And you know, I mean, and ifthat doesn't get them to
respond, well, then, you know,too bad, so sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
Right.
Yes, a hundred percent.
So, I mean, this is one of thosethings, again, it's hard to know
what questions to ask whenyou've never done this before.
And we get that.
And again, we've done shows onthis, so definitely listen to
those.
But, you know, I love that tip,Penny.
Research every service provider,reach out to some of their
authors, yeah.
See how it's been, you know,like how has their experience
(13:38):
been?
Any suggestions, anyrecommendations?
Another thing that we've seen alot lately, and it may not sound
like a big deal when you'refirst getting started, but I
would have very realconversations with whoever you
choose about how they work withAmazon.
How my gosh, yes.
How they work with Amazon, whatis their stance in terms of
(13:59):
making updates to your book, toyour retail page, to your
keywords?
Ask them, get that in writing,how they handle situations like
that.
Because as an author, you shouldbe able to say, I want to make
my book better.
And this is what I need to do tomake my book better.
And if they are the ones thatuploaded your book, they are the
ones that have access to dothat.
And you want it in writing thatthey will make those changes for
(14:21):
you and make those updates.
Because if you are going to besuccessful in this industry,
again, it's coming up.
Evolve.
You have to be ready to evolve.
And you can't evolve if yourbook is essentially locked, they
throw away the key, it is whatit is.
You know what I mean?
Like that's that should not beanything you should accept.
So those kind of questions areimportant to ask before you get
(14:44):
started as well.
How do you work with Amazon?
What is the process?
What are my options for makingupdates to my book in the
future?
How do you handle that?
Who do I contact?
How soon can I expect you toresolve those for me?
Like, get specific about that.
And if they push back and actlike you're asking inappropriate
questions, red flag.
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
Oh, for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
And if they work withthird-party companies to put a
book up on the Amazon, somepublishers do.
Find out the name of the thirdparty company.
Because some third-partycompanies that shall remain
nameless because we don't wantto get sued.
Um, uh, but you're welcome toemail us and we'll tell you all
(15:23):
the things.
Um, some third-party companiesare having challenges.
They'd always play well withAmazon.
So good to find out.
Ask those questions.
I love that.
I think that's you know, I thinkthat's really smart.
Um I okay, I love the next one.
The mummy mailing list.
This is so awesome.
I mean, it's not awesome.
(15:44):
We're gonna fix this problem.
But so authors who build amailing list but never use it,
leaving it wrapped up inlifeless.
I love that note.
That is great.
I know, right?
That's so fabulous.
But it's so true.
Like, okay, so you know it'skind of like what you said in
the first with the first ummonster mash scary scary, right?
(16:06):
Where you know, we dabble inthis, we dabble in that.
Oh, we know we need to do, like,oh, we need to do on TikTok.
Um, and I'm kind of guilty ofthe TikTok thing because I hate
videos so much.
And then there were peoplepretending to be me, and I was
just like, no, I'm just superbummed.
But sometimes we do dabble asauthors, right?
Like we jump, we jump here, wedon't, and the mailing list is
kind of one of them, right?
(16:27):
So you start a mailing list, andthen what happens is, and by the
way, we did a show on this.
So go back if mailing lists arelike you're thinking, like, oh
my gosh, I need to focus on mynewsletter.
We did a show on this for sure.
I don't have whenever I citethese shows, I wish that I had
exact dates.
We have a special treasure huntevery time.
It's a treasure hunt every time.
I know y'all, seriously.
And and one of our listeners, Igotta, I gotta give Amy a shout
(16:48):
out.
One of our listeners wrote us,it was, and I it was a busy,
busy, busy Monday.
And she was like, Hey, um, I I'mlooking for this episode on blah
blah.
And I'm like, Well, I'm sure youcan just search.
So I'm so helpful.
I'm usually more helpful.
It was a busy Monday.
I'm so sorry.
But then Amy had responded toher and told her the specific
(17:10):
episode and the date.
So apparently, if you want goodanswers, go to Amy because she's
a lot more helpful than me.
But we have a team member whoreally loves Excel, like loves
Excel.
I don't understand.
Like Excel just kind of scaresme.
Like I use it only becauseMicrosoft hates us.
But you know, so I'm gonna seeif if she can create an Excel
(17:33):
like directory so that when westart signing episodes, we're
like, okay, episode number 48 orwhatever, year two or something,
go back because otherwise we'regetting people emailing us, and
I am not being helpful.
So um, but we did an episode onnewsletters.
Sorry, that was a reallylong-winded way of saying we did
(17:54):
an episode on newsletter lists,and it was so if that's like
your thing, go back and find itor email Amy because she'll know
off the top of her head whichwhen we did the episode.
Um when you have a mailing list,so and the problem with mailing
lists too is that if you leaveit for too long, it becomes
harder and harder to um createan engaged or warm up your list,
(18:18):
right?
Yep.
So a cold, unengaged list withlow open rates is uh open rates
is really a is really a waste ofpotential.
And when you have so the thingabout it is though, too, is you
know, we all get hit with somuch stuff, right?
Sign up for this, sign up forthat.
And then when you do when anauthor, when a reader does sign
(18:39):
up, like that's a hugecompliment to you as an author.
So, you know, cherish that, youknow, that that list and really
take care of that list.
So if you're listening to this,you're like, oh, I haven't sent
anything.
And and don't tell me thatyou're not sending something in
between releases, because ifyour release is six months out,
(19:01):
that means that you're notcommunicating with your with
your readers for six months, andthat's a big no-no, right?
Or if your release is a yearout, even worse, right?
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
So I love that, Penny.
I think that's such a good pointwhen you said cherish those
people, because we talked abouton the newsletter show.
But I think it's worth sayingagain, because this is, I think,
very real for a lot of people,is that you have a small list,
which means you don't feel supermotivated to do anything with
it.
It's kind of like that always,like when it gets to this
number, I'll do something.
You know what I mean?
(19:29):
It's always like that next, whenit gets good enough, I'll put
more time and energy into it.
But those original shift yourthinking, those few people that
are on it now are your biggestsupporters.
Oh, for sure.
And not communicating with themis offensive.
Yeah.
These are the kind of peoplethat are most likely to
(19:51):
recommend your book to a friend,you know, are most likely to
mention you, or most likely tolike something you do on social.
Like the people that sign upearly for your lists are your
best people.
Like those are your people.
So really don't, like you said,wasted potential.
Do not let them sit there andfeel underappreciated.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Yeah, exactly.
And, you know, and the otherpiece of it though, too, is that
if you are, you know, don't waituntil you have a particular
number to start figuring out howto do how to, you know, what to
say in your newsletter.
I mean, the earlier that youstart, the earlier that you're
(20:31):
gonna get kind of a feel forwhat people respond to, you
know, even if you just have fivepeople.
Like I know that seems like alike, oh my gosh, I'm putting
all of this effort in for fivepeople.
As Amy said, those arecherished, it's offensive that
they're not getting anything.
They signed up for something.
SPEAKER_00 (20:49):
So, you know, yeah, they'll be the most
understanding, probably too,Penny, right?
Like to your point, like ifyou're gonna screw up, if you're
not gonna put out a greatnewsletter from the start, I
mean, I mean, obviously aim foryour best, but you'll figure it
out as you go.
But those are the people thatare gonna be the most
understanding.
You know, use them as yourguinea pigs because they're just
there to support you.
So it's better to do it thenthan when your list grows and
(21:13):
people are like, wow, theyreally don't have their shit
together, do they?
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
Right, exactly.
You know, so you want to focuson on the connection, not just
the sales, right?
Because a lot of times weactually have a show coming up
on this, it was inspired by aconversation that I had with an
author.
We're probably not gonna run theshow until December.
So I didn't mean to tease it soearly, but um it it is it is a
show around changing your focus,right?
(21:40):
So changing your focus, focusingon connection, not just sales.
And those five people that youhave on your newsletter list,
um, they already bought yourbook, but and they could be a
sales force that could help tobuild, bring more people to your
brand, bring more people to yourbooks, and bring more people to
your newsletter.
So uh unwrap your listperiodically, just to go back to
(22:02):
the mummy reference, becausethat's the thing that's gonna
keep it keep your always try tokeep your list warm.
Doesn't you have to send anemail newsletter out once a week
at all?
Once a month is more thanenough.
All right.
Um, so now we have so I know themini monsters were kind of
optional, but super fun.
We should definitely, I think weshould definitely do these.
(22:23):
Um, I'm gonna start off becauseI love this one.
It's all about me.
I want to start leading off withall the invisible man, because
we see this all the time, right?
An author who shows up online,who never shows up online, and
then wonder wonders why no oneknows their book exists.
So preach.
I want to almost clap for thatone.
(22:44):
I know, right?
Like it's my because it is afatal mistake and it's
something, but it's somethingthat we see all the time, right?
It's something that we see allthe time.
And nobody, you know, your bookis not the field of dreams.
Just because somebody um, justbecause you published a book
(23:04):
doesn't mean that people aregonna beat a path to your door.
You have to make that path, youhave to do all the things.
It doesn't necessarily mean youhave to be on every single
social media site.
That's not at all what we'resaying.
And we've said this ad nauseum.
Like if you've listened to usfor the last five years on these
shows, be smart about yourinteraction, be smart about
where you're spending your time,but you definitely have to show
(23:25):
up.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
100%.
Yeah.
Yes.
And so I love this one, theheadless horseman.
I love that one too.
I want to know that one too.
Yeah.
Yes.
And so this would be an authorwho is charging ahead with ads
and spending money on thingsbecause it sounds good, but they
don't have any clear targeting.
So this goes back to busy feelsproductive, but most often it is
(23:48):
not productive at all, andyou're most likely wasting
money, you know.
For sure.
Yeah.
So the headless horseman, if youare just doing the things to
check it off your list orbecause you know that's what
authors are supposed to do, youare likely wasting a lot of
money, and you're not reallythinking about how your
particular reader marketdiscovers new books.
And that's the most importantthing.
(24:09):
One, understand who your readermarket is.
We've done shows on that.
You know, you have to understandwhat they're looking for, you
have to understand the booksthat they're buying.
So doing that market research,like, okay, who, what books and
titles are doing really wellthat are in my category?
Like, who is pulling this off?
What are readers gravitatingtowards?
(24:30):
You can learn a lot from that.
But so understanding who yourreader market is is number one.
But then getting extrathoughtful about how they end up
finding books, they end upbuying and reading and
reviewing.
So, yes, ads are important,using the right targeting, using
the right keywords.
You know, there are a lot ofother places and other ways that
(24:50):
people find books, and it's not,it's not always the same across
the board for every genre ortopic by any means.
Yeah.
So really understanding how bookdiscovery works for who your
readers are is also importantbecause as Penny just said, you
don't have to do all the things,but you have to do the things
that make sense for who youraudience is and also where
(25:10):
you're at kind of in your authorjourney, where your brand is.
Are you brand new or have youbeen around for 10 years?
You know, that that kind ofaffects things too.
But really understand where youshould be and what you should be
doing and who you're targeting,and you'll save a lot of time
and money.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, the spider web of socialmedia, I love this one.
The author who gets tangledtrying to be everywhere at once,
but never builds real strengthin any one platform.
So again, and I alluded to thisin The Invisible Man, we have
we've done a lot of shows onthis.
Don't be everywhere, beeverywhere that matters.
Figuring out where your readershows up.
(25:44):
Because the other piece of itthough, too, is that when if
you're trying to be on all ofthese social media sites, it's
exhausting, right?
And yeah, you could, you know,sure, you could post the same
content across all of yourplatforms, absolutely.
But when are you gonna have thetime to engage with people,
right?
Absolutely, or to try anddetermine, and the other piece
(26:05):
of though, too, is that if youare truly gonna be on all the
platforms, different content,you know, not all the not every
piece of content is gonnaresonate the same way as like on
Facebook or Instagram orLinkedIn or like the stuff that
I post on Facebook, I wouldnever post on LinkedIn.
You know, it's it's it's just adifferent tone.
(26:27):
So reassess your social mediafor sure.
It's scary and it's gonna waste,it's it'll waste a lot of time.
And as I mentioned, we did ashow on this.
I don't remember the show.
The episode number, write toAmy, she will know off the top
of her head.
I love this last one.
I really wanted the last one.
I'm gonna have lots of commentsabout the last one.
(26:48):
Take the last one, Amy.
SPEAKER_00 (26:49):
I'm loving Okay, I love it too.
The troll under the bridge.
SPEAKER_01 (26:53):
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
I know.
And this is quite literally, youknow, we we've all we get it,
like we've all experienced it.
Hope probably a negative reviewor some sort of online critic
that spooks authors into hiding,that spooks authors into hiding
instead of staying visible forwho their readers really are.
This is so important becauseone, in case nobody, you know,
(27:17):
in places hadn't clicked yet,when you put a book out to the
world, you are quite literallyasking people to read it and
give their opinion on it.
Reviews matter.
We all want reviews.
There's nobody listening rightnow that doesn't want more book
reviews.
But believe it or not, peoplewill have different opinions on
your book.
That's just how it goes.
So I realize that's a reallytough pill to swallow sometimes,
(27:37):
but that is part of being andpublishing and being an author.
But a lot of times, unless it'ssomething very specific about
the production of the book, likelack of editing or something
like that that you were incontrol of, a lot of times you
have to just remember that thatperson may not be your target
reader.
You can't prevent them frombuying your book, you can't
(27:59):
prevent them from leaving areview.
That's how this goes.
But you have to really keep inmind and compartmentalize like,
is this my is does this personsound like one of my readers?
And do I need to take theirfeedback constructively?
Or is this just really notsomebody that I was trying to
please in the first place?
And I just have to let it go.
SPEAKER_01 (28:17):
Right, exactly.
And then, you know, the other,like, I get it.
So I remember like 25 years agowhen I published my first book,
um, I got a negative review fromsomebody who misunderstood what
the book was about.
And I was rock, I rocked in acorner.
(28:37):
And it was, you know, and itwasn't even just a negative
review on Amazon, it was anegative review on their blog,
like why they hated the book andblah, blah, blah.
And then, you know, I I mean,and I can completely understand
how that can completely deflatean author for sure.
Because it's, you know, I mean,yeah, your your writing is very
(29:00):
um, I mean, even if you'vewritten nonfiction, your writing
is very personal, right?
We pour our hearts and soulsinto our writing.
And if somebody doesn't like it,then you know, I mean, at least
for me, it makes me super sad.
And sometimes I want to hideunder a bridge like a troll.
(29:21):
I really, I gotta tell you, Ireally love these.
Um, I thought that this was sucha great idea.
And I want to remind you, firstoff, happy Halloween to
everybody.
Love Halloween.
I want to remind you, so we'vehad some signups for our
podcast.
Um so the the text alerts,rather, the text alerts for the
(29:42):
podcast.
Um, so text the word podcast.
Sorry, that didn't come outreally well.
But text the word podcast to 888402 8940.
I'll repeat that number again,which is 888 402 8940.
And you will get show updates.
But you can also like let usknow what you what you want to
(30:03):
hear, what you want to see.
Send us a text message and letus know what you want to see
more of, show ideas, things likethat.
It's a great way to communicatewith us directly.
Um, and also we are stillwaiting on our 100th review.
People, what is going on outthere?
We really want.
We actually got a really sweetnote from somebody this morning
(30:26):
who was like, I'm listening onSpotify and it's really hard to
review on Spotify.
I know some of these platformsjust don't make it very easy.
Um, but Amy has some easyinstructions in the show notes.
So leave us a review.
We really want to get to 100.
Y'all are really making us wait,right?
We want we need to get to 100before the end of the year.
Don't make us wait untilDecember 31st, because then
(30:46):
we'll be super sad.
But we'll still be excited forthe one for the 100th review.
All right.
I am so I was so um thank you somuch for joining us for this
special Halloween episode.
We're kicking our music to thecurb and we're using our spooky,
spooky, spooky Halloween music.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
(31:07):
This is Penny Sans Ferry and AmyCornell, and we will see you
next Friday.
Have a happy Halloween.
Bye bye.
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