April 4, 2025 • 28 mins
Have you ever judged a book by its title? Most readers do. In this eye-opening episode, Penny and Amy tackle the surprisingly overlooked aspect of book marketing that could be silently sabotaging your sales: your book title.
Drawing from years of marketing experience, the hosts break down the three critical mistakes authors make when naming their books. First, they examine titles that lack clarity or are difficult to pronounce, revealing how authors often "bury the lead" by creating mysteriously worded titles that confuse rather than intrigue potential readers. Fiction writers take note – even complex character names can pull readers out of your carefully crafted world.
The discussion then shifts to the dangers of generic titles, with Amy explaining how Amazon's search algorithm works against new books with common titles. "If you type 'Good Things' into Amazon," Penny demonstrates, "you'll get crackers, children's books, and 25+ pages of other products." This real-time search experiment highlights why specificity matters in a crowded marketplace.
Perhaps most compelling is their analysis of titles that only make sense to the author – a trap particularly common with memoirs and personal stories. Both hosts acknowledge the emotional attachment writers develop to their original titles, with Penny sharing a coaching session where it took nearly an hour to convince a business author to abandon his ineffective title choice.
Whether you're writing fiction or nonfiction, traditionally publishing or self-publishing, this episode offers practical strategies to ensure your title works as hard as you do. After all, as Amy points out, "If readers are consistently confused about what your book delivers based on its title, that's a significant red flag." The good news? Unlike many publishing decisions, titles can be changed – and sometimes, that one adjustment makes all the difference.
Buy Penny's book The Amazon Author Formula
Please leave a review!
- Locate Ratings & Reviews: Scroll down on our podcast page until you find the "Ratings & Reviews" section.
- Rate the Podcast: Click on the stars to give the podcast a rating.
- Write Your Review: Under the star rating there will be the most recent review and just below that click "Write a Review" and compose your review in the text box that appears.
- Save: Once you've written your review, click "Save" to submit it.
Be sure you're following or subscribed to the show first.
Can't leave one on your preferred podcast platform? Email us your review and we'll put it on our website: info@amarketingexpert.com.
Check out our full-service publishing consulting here:
https://amarketingexpert.com/publishing-consulting/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips
and Author Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sansevierie andAmy Cornell, and we are so I
don't know that we've done ashow on naming your book and
some of the errors that we'veseen with book titles, and so
(00:21):
we're also going to talk aboutsubtitles in today's show.
With book titles, and so we'realso going to talk about
subtitles in today's show.
The thing is is that we weregoing through, so we had a, we
had a long debrief in our greenroom and we were going through
some of our older shows, andit's really hard, when it comes
to book marketing, not to kindof repeat yourself, because, as
(00:46):
Amy said when we were in thegreen room, there's really only
so much stuff that you can talkabout, but, interestingly enough
, we've done shows on bookcovers, we've done shows on,
obviously, your Amazon book page.
We've done all of those kinds ofshows, but we've never done one
on naming your book.
We've done all of those kindsof shows, but we've never done
(01:09):
one on naming your book.
It's time.
Yeah, I know Exactly and youknow.
The thing about it is, though,is that so, yes, you can give
your book a title that is goingto hurt it, and I think that
sometimes this happens becausewe get so close to our book
(01:31):
product.
So when I was naming what isnow called the Amazon Author
Formula, I mean that was a longroad, amy, you remember that,
because you and I were kind ofbouncing ideas back and forth
and it was really challenging tocome up with that name.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah, it definitely was.
And I will say, you know,fiction and nonfiction have
their own challenges when itcomes to finding the perfect
title.
But I will say, for nonfiction,we really got, we really
drilled down into like okay, ifwe use this exact word, what
does that tell somebody aboutthe book?
What does that imply?
What is the promise that you'remaking to that potential buyer
(02:09):
and reader by using this wordversus this word?
And it may sound mind-numbingif y'all are listening like, oh
really, it's like yes,absolutely, you know, because
the success of a book andespecially getting those
recommendations and reviews andthings like that you know the
title and what somebody's firstimpression and if you followed
(02:29):
through with that firstimpression or not, makes a big
difference in their experiencewith your book.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, it does.
And the other thing, though,too, is we always talk about the
emotional appeal of your bookcover matters to your reader,
because we buy from emotion,right, whether we want to learn
something or, you know, escapismwhen it comes to fiction,
(02:55):
whatever that is right.
Your book title also feeds intothat.
What the book is about, thebook benefits, and the thing is
is that over the years, we'veseen authors get almost too
creative with their book titles,so, in other words, they create
(03:16):
titles that sound a littlemysterious because they want to
convey, maybe, the mysteriousnature of the book, right, and
there is a rabbit hole when itcomes to titling a book that you
can go too far down and itbecomes a very non-productive
(03:40):
title that can really damageyour book, and a lot of times
this falls into so much likemistake number one your title
lacks clarity or it's hard topronounce.
Now I realize again those of youwith fiction books and be like
well, but my title doesn'talways like.
Fiction is a different animal,fiction is different animal,
fiction is actually not adifferent animal.
(04:02):
I mean, when it comes tononfiction, obviously, you know
your book benefits are in thetitle, but when it comes to
fiction, your reader has to beable to interpret in the
microsecond that they're onAmazon.
They have to be able tointerpret the title and
(04:23):
intuitively say oh yes, thisbook is for me or the title is
too difficult to pronounce and Idon't really know what this
book is about.
And we've seen that too, amyright.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Absolutely.
We've definitely seen, we'veworked with, I will say, titles
that almost looked like theywere accidentally misspelled.
Yes, that's the.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yes, and again, we you know I don't want to keep
giving like we understand, weunderstand, but truly we
understand that once somebodygets into your book and your
story and your content, it maymake sense to them.
But if it doesn't make senseout of context, it's potentially
very problematic.
(05:07):
I think and I love that youmentioned the mispronunciation
or hard to pronounce, penny,because that's something that I
am always acutely aware of whenI'm reading a book, even a
character name.
Sometimes I can get hung up oncharacter names that are not
super clear how you pronounce it, and the whole time, every time
I read the name, I'm like am Isaying it wrong?
(05:27):
Am I saying?
And it's like it really pullsyou out of the immersiveness of
the story, and so that'ssomething you have to think
about too.
With titles and things likethat, you don't want a reader to
kick it off questioning whetherthey're reading it properly or
if they're saying it right,because it's a great way to pull
them out of the story veryquickly, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, exactly, I think you know, made up words.
We surprisingly we see this alot where authors will make up a
word for a book title or or usean uncommon word or uncommon
spelling or word, and this issomething that you also have to
(06:11):
be really careful of a word thatactually means something else.
And I'm not talking aboutsomething that's necessarily
derogatory, but you could.
I had an author one time in aclass who was really having
trouble, I guess, advertisinghis book because he had
accidentally named his bookafter like a massively big movie
(06:37):
, like the book wasn't calledStar Wars or anything like that,
but it was along those.
You know what I mean?
It was along those linesbecause he had not done his due
diligence and he thought, oh,this sounds, this really conveys
what the book is about, andthen didn't realize that it was
a major hit movie at one time.
Oh God, so well.
And and you know, I mean, look,I get that happens because book
(06:57):
titles it's kind of like, youknow, like I get it.
It's kind of like naming yourchildren, right, but unlike
naming your children, you canactually change your book title.
You can change your book titleif you take down the road that
you made a mistake Fornonfiction books.
Obviously you're solving aproblem, you're teaching the
reader something, but just makesure that that's super clear in
(07:20):
your title.
I cannot emphasize to you enoughand again, if you go back and
listen to our book coverdiscussion how many times
authors want to bury the lead inabsolutely everything.
They want to make their titleso mysterious, their book cover
mysterious, to really capturethe audience and in their minds,
(07:40):
like I get it.
Because in their minds they'relike oh, this is going to seem
really mysterious and people aregoing to be really interested.
And then the reverse is true,because they have trouble with a
book title that is maybemisspelled, they have trouble
getting traction on Amazonbecause Amazon can't figure it
out.
Oh gosh, your autocorrectalways fixes your title for you.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Oh my gosh, that's the worst I know.
And I think another thing withnonfiction too, Penny, like we
started the discussion talkingabout author formula.
But I think it's also reallyimportant to get very real with
yourself about what your bookactually delivers on.
And I think a good example andwe've seen this happen with
(08:22):
nonfiction books where a topickind of straddles the line with,
like a memoir or something likethat.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
And so if your book is more if you've written a
business book but it's reallymore about your experience and
it doesn't mean people can'tlearn from your experience but
if everything in it is reallyanchored to your specific
experience and it doesn't meanpeople can't learn from your
experience, but if everything init is really anchored to your
specific experience what youwent through, things like that,
using the term guide or how toyou know what I mean it gets
(08:52):
really murky.
You have to be really carefulwith word choices and what you
actually deliver on, becausesome words, when people are
shopping, they have expectationsof how that content should be
presented and what they're goingto walk away with.
So you really want to becareful to make sure that you're
not implying one thing whenyour content actually delivers
(09:14):
on another, and neither is goodnor bad, right nor wrong.
You just want to be realistic.
So, again, keep one.
The right people will find yourbook and resonate with your
book.
But also so you deliver on theexperience you promised them,
based on the title, the cover,the description, things like
that.
You really don't want to havethem think it's one thing and
(09:35):
deliver something else.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Right, right.
And then, you know, do so acouple things.
First off, I know a lot ofauthors I love, I love chat GPT.
We use it for imagery, we useit for brainstorming.
I mean, we've really AI hasreally found a home with some of
the work that we do.
(09:57):
But be very careful if you areasking chat to suggest book
titles, because I had an authormentioned that to me on the
phone the other day and the bookwasn't done and they're like oh
, I have these 10 titles fromchat and I'm not sure what I
like them and can I send them toyou and they were all really
awful so well, because you know.
(10:21):
The other piece of it, though,too, with AI is that it's kind
of like when you're making acake, right, if you miss one of
the ingredients, the cake isgoing to taste funny.
A lot of times when we areinputting things into AI, we
give it incomplete information,which I don't know how the
(10:43):
author served up thisinformation in chat when they
were trying to get book titles,but I suspect that was kind of
the case.
So you have to be reallycareful with that, because in
the majority of cases you'reprobably not giving the AI
enough information such that itactually bounces back some
really good ideas.
So be really careful with that.
The other thing that I thinkbefore we go on to mistake
(11:06):
number two is check to see otherbook titles that have the same
name right, because sometimes Irealize you know there are
situations where sometimes thatcan't be avoided and I don't
have no clear examples kind ofpop to mind as we're recording
(11:27):
this show.
But be really careful, Don't.
And I actually had an authorone time, this is a long time
ago, who wanted to write booksthat all had the same titles as
Stephen King's, because theywanted to come up in Amy's like
cracking up, they wanted to comeup in search with Stephen King
(11:52):
and I'm like, and you can'tcopyright a book title so people
can copy your title.
You can copy other people'stitles.
It's just really bad business,right?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Good way to kiss a bunch of people off.
Well, yeah, imagine a readershopping on their phone or
something, so it's smaller, andthey just like they pull
something up and they're like,yeah, that must be it.
And they get it and they findout you're not Stephen King.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Well, and you know I actually you know it's funny
because I actually did this.
So I last year.
If you listen to our shows lastyear, you probably heard me go
on and on and on about this bookcalled the Housemaid, which I
then forced Amy to read.
Like Amy, you have to read this.
I was bugging her like everysingle day.
There were other books calledthe Housemaid and maybe they
(12:40):
were older.
I didn't really check the dates, but I actually picked up one
on Audible and then ended upreturning it.
So there were people who werecopying that book title because
it was such a runaway, hugebestseller.
Just don't do it, it justdoesn't.
I told Audible.
I'm like I want my credit backbecause this is not the book
that I thought that I wasgetting.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Don't try to trick the system because, as Amy said,
you'll just end up pissing offa bunch of readers.
So be careful with that.
So mistake number two yourtitle is too generic.
Amy, do you want to kick thisone off?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, and I mean it kind of to your point too, penny
is like do a little research tosee.
And it To your point too, penny, do a little research to see.
It can't always be avoided, butI think this goes along.
Generic can be something that'soverused too.
You really want to be careful.
We do a lot of shows aboutAmazon optimization those that
you listen, searchability,things like that.
(13:36):
It's very easy to get lost onAmazon search as it is.
It's so much easier to get lostif you have a very basic
generic book title as well.
Yeah, it's just, I mean, andthis is where subtitles can
definitely help.
I realize you can't controlwhether or not somebody enters
in your full subtitle whenthey're searching for your book,
(13:57):
but it definitely helps interms of searchability.
It helps your book show up inmore searches.
We talked about subtitlesrecently on an Amazon news show
and that Amazon is definitelyleaning toward pulling from
subtitles now to find keywordsto make sure that the right
books are showing up for theright readers.
We're seeing this mostly inreally popular genre fiction
(14:20):
right now, but it's been therefor a while.
This has been something thatAmazon has been doing for a bit,
because we do try to keep trackof.
Do these things stick withAmazon, or is it something
they're just testing?
And this one is really stuck.
So it's worth, especially ifyou write fiction, to keep that
in mind.
You don't want a super generictitle, because if they just put
(14:42):
that one word into the searchbar, who knows what's going to
show up?
And not everybody.
Also, penny.
I think, if we're beingrealistic, a lot of people don't
necessarily go to the books orthe Kindle department before
they start searching.
I think a lot of people willinitially just put in what they
want in the main search bar andhope they get you know.
(15:03):
But if they don't find the bookthat they're looking for, okay,
then maybe they'll go throughand actually go to the books
department or the Kindledepartment.
But every but you know authorsshould keep that in mind too.
If somebody's just searching onstraight up Amazon, they could
be getting graphic tees, theycould be getting you know what.
I mean, who knows what Amazon'sgoing to put in front of them
just based on a one or two wordbook title, and that's what you
(15:27):
kind of have to be cognizant of.
Again, you may not always beable to avoid it, but it's worth
thinking about, because, ifyou're, I am sorry, we've got
sound department.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Oh, is the sound department there to say hi?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Sorry y'all, that was the sound department.
If you've been on our websiteand seen how we've credited all
the different people that makethe show happen, some of them
bark and it's not always at theright time, so I apologize.
It may not always be somethingyou can control, but what I was
(16:14):
in the middle of saying is that,as you're brainstorming
potential titles, these are alljust things we want y'all to
keep in mind because it's worth.
It may make the differencebetween your number one and
number two title that you'reconsidering when you start
getting on Amazon and searchingfor similar titles and things
like that.
Based on what comes up, youmight go.
You know what this looks like amore lucrative option for me.
That's why I'm going to go withthis one.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and you know it's interesting.
So when you were, um, when youwere saying that, I was focusing
on everything on what you weresaying, but I was also searching
on Amazon.
So there was a new book, thatthere's a there's a new release
book.
It's actually not out yet Ithink it's not until september
and the title of the book isgood things, right.
(16:55):
So now this could be anything,right, this could be absolutely
anything.
So I did what you just said.
I went into amazon and I typedin good things into the search
bar and it also comes up with,um, a children's book.
Uh, some good thins crackers,right.
There are like 10 other bookswith the same title, more than
(17:23):
10, actually I think the pagesgo 25, more than 25 search pages
.
So y'all gotta be careful.
This and, like I, this was atraditionally published book.
I mean no disrespect, justusing it as an example.
But do some searches on Amazon,because we we always recommend
(17:47):
that to the degree that you can.
I realize you know with fictionsometimes that gets a little
bit, that's a little bit moretricky.
But get on Amazon and do somesearches and see what else is
out there.
Yep, because it's really goingto be hard for just to go back
to that title, good Things.
It's going to be hard to havethat title stand out like that.
(18:13):
The subtitle, which I didn'tshare, what also was a little
bit iffy it wasn't reallyspecific.
So now you have a non-specifictitle and a very non-specific
subtitle and good luck showingup right search right.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
And then for non-fiction.
I think it's also we see this alot too penny and we talk about
it.
It's great that we talked aboutit with the top of the show,
like there's only so manydifferent topics within a
specific industry or area ofinterest, right, right.
And so you want to be reallycareful with non-fiction, that
you're not essentially makingthe same promise that everybody
(18:54):
else is.
It's like, what's unique aboutyour voice, what's unique about
your approach, what's uniqueabout your point of view?
You know what I mean.
It's so great when you canemphasize what sets you apart
from the competition in yourtitle or subtitle, versus giving
them yet another book on thesame topic that they may already
(19:16):
have on their shelf, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Right, right, exactly it is.
You know, I realized that it'stitling a book is not an easy
thing to do.
Sometimes an author will, youknow, say like I'll talk to them
, and they're in the middle offinishing up their book.
Like, oh my gosh, I knew thetitle of the book before I even
(19:38):
put pen to paper and I thinkthat's great.
I think that's wonderful.
That title came to you thateasily Because, trust me, when I
was you know the Amazon authorformula Amy and I went I don't
want to say that we necessarilycame to blows, because it never
really comes to that, but atsome point, like, I had this
title in my mind I don'tremember what it was now and I
was like, amy, I really lovethis title.
And she pushed me back andshe's like, well, here's what
(20:00):
comes to my mind when you tellme that title.
I'm like, well, you're justdifferent.
So we have this.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Not wrong.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Not wrong.
I mean, I understand like weget very, very married to our
titles.
If you have something that'salready in mind or if you're you
know down our list of if yourbook isn't selling, take maybe
it's the title.
Do some research and, if youhave, if you've had like
negative reviews on your book,like oh, I thought this book was
(20:34):
about this and this book wasreally about that.
It could be, could be yourcover, could be your description
, but it could also be yourtitle or subtitle too.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I think that's a very good point, Penny.
If you're getting the kind offeedback in your reviews that
things just aren't clicking forreaders, that's a that's a very
good point to me.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, exactly.
And then I think the finalmistake is that the title only
makes sense to you, right?
And I see this a lot withmemoir, right, and I understand
that memoir.
You know the first two lettersin memoir is me.
(21:11):
I understand that memoir is avery personal endeavor, but if
you want this memoir to sell,your title is going to have to
make sense to everyone, not justyou, right.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yes, and we've talked about and you know it's a lot
of.
It's amazing how much thesedifferent, I think, mistakes,
tips, recommendations, whateveryou want to call them there's a
lot of gray area in between themtoo.
There's a lot of things thatoverlap, but I think that's a
very good point, and we talkedabout this earlier too.
If it's not going to make senseto somebody until they get to
(21:47):
Chapter 5, that's challenging.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, and like you said, penny,what was it?
Good things.
I mean, honestly, my mind, justbased on what I read a lot, I'm
like, ooh, that could be areally twisted title for a
thriller you know, it could beand that's the kind of stuff
like to you it makes perfectsense.
But you really have to thinklike, challenge yourself, like
(22:09):
does this make sense out ofcontext?
For who my readers are?
The kind of books they'relooking for?
The word choice Again, wetalked about that.
It's amazing the difference inchanging up one or two words.
You know even in your subtitleor in your title, like it's wild
.
But if the book title doesn'tmake sense out of context, I
(22:30):
think that is a big red flag.
You know?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yes, yes, exactly, and you know, again, it should
be easy to remember, it shouldbe easy to spell, Because what
Amy pointed out, which I don'tthink we've actually ever talked
about on any of these shows, isthat a lot of times Amazon.
So we focus when we dooptimization, we always focus,
obviously, on the Kindle side ofAmazon, because that tends to
(22:55):
be heavier, because a lot ofauthors go straight to Kindle,
but the majority of consumersare just going onto Amazon and
starting to do a search, justlike I did when I referenced the
book Good Things, the book GoodThings.
(23:17):
So you have to really make surethat it.
You know, like the misspellingsand Amazon's going to serve you
up all kinds of things that arenot related to your book,
especially again, if you have abook title that only really
makes sense to you.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, and especially if your book's new too, penny,
if we're being realistic, ifyour book title overlaps with
other products on Amazon thatare highly rated, that have been
around for a while, that sellreally well.
Amazon wants to make money.
So you know, I hate to say it,but they're going to default to
showing them that stuff too,because they thought, well, a
lot of people buy this, theymight buy this too.
(23:52):
They're going to default toshowing them that stuff too,
because they thought, well, alot of people buy this, they
might buy this too.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Amazon loves to distract you, to get you to
spend money on all the things.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Oh yeah, for sure.
If your book is brand new anddoesn't have a lot of weight
with Amazon yet you know what Imean.
It's not really clicking in thealgorithm.
Yet your chances of gettinglost in a sea of a lot of other
recommendations is even higher.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, exactly.
So I think you know, if youalready have a book out there
and it's not really doing thatwell, start to do some research
on Amazon and see.
You know, and I reallyrecommend, do it from an
incognito window, because thatway your search is not going to
follow your new search.
Your research search, rightSorry, that was really a tongue
(24:35):
twister, but and kind of seewhat comes up, right, see what
comes up and see if your titleis you know, if it references
something like the guy who wrotehad a book title with a you
know big movie that was outyears ago and people are looking
(25:03):
it up and going like too, isthat, if your book is coming up
under the wrong search which, ifyou're interested in learning
more about Amazon optimization,we have a whole bunch of Amazon
shows that you can go back andlisten to but if your book is
coming up under the wrong searchand it's the book title's fault
, that is something I mean.
I don't want to say it's aneasy fix, because I realize you
have to change the book coverand if you have a publisher
(25:27):
involved, I mean it just becomesa little bit of a slippery
slope.
But if you're unsure, go onAmazon and start doing some
research and see if your bookcomes up properly, because it's
a problem.
And again, naming your book isa very personal, it's a very
personal thing.
I actually did a coachingsession last year with an author
(25:50):
who had a business book and I,you know, when somebody hires me
for coaching I am you don'thire me to blow smoke and I told
him I'm like I just don't think, if I were working with you as
a marketing person, that I couldget business bloggers to pick
up the book based on the booktitle.
And it took me probably almosta full hour to wrestle that
(26:17):
original title from him, jeez,and he came back to me.
Well, because we have anemotional tether to our book
titles, you know what I mean.
Just like the first title thatI can't even remember now that I
sent you, where we were backand forth, I'm like, but I read
this title and then you know Irealized at the end of the day
that it was really kind ofstupid.
But I say, you know we have anemotional tether to our book
(26:39):
title, so I get it.
It's really hard, but it'sdefinitely an important factor
in your author's success.
To take a look at that makefactor in your author's success.
To take a look at that.
Make sure it's not too hard topronounce, that it doesn't lack
clarity, that it's not toogeneric and that it's not just
some secret word that only youand maybe three other people
know Right, came to you in adream or something.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Sorry, right.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So, anyway, well, listen, we make sure to
subscribe to this podcastbecause we do release episodes
every week, so you want to makesure that you get, you know, an
alert on your phone, um and itwhen you.
You can only review the podcastwhen you subscribe, which is
weird, I did not know thatbefore.
So make sure to subscribe.
(27:25):
We love reviews wherever youlisten to podcasts.
We also love show ideas, so ourcontact details are in the show
notes.
Be sure to reach out to us,give us some feedback on the
show, show ideas.
Is there something that youthat we haven't covered?
Because I let off the show,kind of saying, well, we've
talked about all the things.
There's only so much you cansay.
(27:46):
But then I'm surprised and wedo a title, a show on book
titles, and we've never done ashow on book titles before.
So who knew, after five yearswe could still surprise
ourselves, right?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yes, but send in the ideas.
We love them because, as muchas we like yammering about all
the things that we think areimportant, it's so important for
us to do shows that reflect thechallenges that y'all are
dealing with.
Yeah, exactly Like it doesn'thave to be a fully fleshed out
idea, even if you just send usan email and say, I'm really
struggling with this, like we'lldo the heavy lifting to try to
(28:18):
make a show about it.
Okay, yes, I love that.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Thank you.
Even better than sending usyour show ideas, send us your
struggles.
What do you really challengewith right now?
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you for listening For allour listeners who have been
with us for the last few seasons.
We really so value you and welove that you're listening and
(28:45):
we will see you next week.
Bye-bye.
Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips
and Author Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sansevierie andAmy Cornell, and we are so I
don't know that we've done ashow on naming your book and
some of the errors that we'veseen with book titles, and so
(00:21):
we're also going to talk aboutsubtitles in today's show.
With book titles, and so we'realso going to talk about
subtitles in today's show.
The thing is is that we weregoing through, so we had a, we
had a long debrief in our greenroom and we were going through
some of our older shows, andit's really hard, when it comes
to book marketing, not to kindof repeat yourself, because, as
(00:46):
Amy said when we were in thegreen room, there's really only
so much stuff that you can talkabout, but, interestingly enough
, we've done shows on bookcovers, we've done shows on,
obviously, your Amazon book page.
We've done all of those kinds ofshows, but we've never done one
on naming your book.
We've done all of those kindsof shows, but we've never done
(01:09):
one on naming your book.
It's time.
Yeah, I know Exactly and youknow.
The thing about it is, though,is that so, yes, you can give
your book a title that is goingto hurt it, and I think that
sometimes this happens becausewe get so close to our book
(01:31):
product.
So when I was naming what isnow called the Amazon Author
Formula, I mean that was a longroad, amy, you remember that,
because you and I were kind ofbouncing ideas back and forth
and it was really challenging tocome up with that name.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah, it definitely was.
And I will say, you know,fiction and nonfiction have
their own challenges when itcomes to finding the perfect
title.
But I will say, for nonfiction,we really got, we really
drilled down into like okay, ifwe use this exact word, what
does that tell somebody aboutthe book?
What does that imply?
What is the promise that you'remaking to that potential buyer
(02:09):
and reader by using this wordversus this word?
And it may sound mind-numbingif y'all are listening like, oh
really, it's like yes,absolutely, you know, because
the success of a book andespecially getting those
recommendations and reviews andthings like that you know the
title and what somebody's firstimpression and if you followed
(02:29):
through with that firstimpression or not, makes a big
difference in their experiencewith your book.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, it does.
And the other thing, though,too, is we always talk about the
emotional appeal of your bookcover matters to your reader,
because we buy from emotion,right, whether we want to learn
something or, you know, escapismwhen it comes to fiction,
(02:55):
whatever that is right.
Your book title also feeds intothat.
What the book is about, thebook benefits, and the thing is
is that over the years, we'veseen authors get almost too
creative with their book titles,so, in other words, they create
(03:16):
titles that sound a littlemysterious because they want to
convey, maybe, the mysteriousnature of the book, right, and
there is a rabbit hole when itcomes to titling a book that you
can go too far down and itbecomes a very non-productive
(03:40):
title that can really damageyour book, and a lot of times
this falls into so much likemistake number one your title
lacks clarity or it's hard topronounce.
Now I realize again those of youwith fiction books and be like
well, but my title doesn'talways like.
Fiction is a different animal,fiction is different animal,
fiction is actually not adifferent animal.
(04:02):
I mean, when it comes tononfiction, obviously, you know
your book benefits are in thetitle, but when it comes to
fiction, your reader has to beable to interpret in the
microsecond that they're onAmazon.
They have to be able tointerpret the title and
(04:23):
intuitively say oh yes, thisbook is for me or the title is
too difficult to pronounce and Idon't really know what this
book is about.
And we've seen that too, amyright.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Absolutely.
We've definitely seen, we'veworked with, I will say, titles
that almost looked like theywere accidentally misspelled.
Yes, that's the.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yes, and again, we you know I don't want to keep
giving like we understand, weunderstand, but truly we
understand that once somebodygets into your book and your
story and your content, it maymake sense to them.
But if it doesn't make senseout of context, it's potentially
very problematic.
(05:07):
I think and I love that youmentioned the mispronunciation
or hard to pronounce, penny,because that's something that I
am always acutely aware of whenI'm reading a book, even a
character name.
Sometimes I can get hung up oncharacter names that are not
super clear how you pronounce it, and the whole time, every time
I read the name, I'm like am Isaying it wrong?
(05:27):
Am I saying?
And it's like it really pullsyou out of the immersiveness of
the story, and so that'ssomething you have to think
about too.
With titles and things likethat, you don't want a reader to
kick it off questioning whetherthey're reading it properly or
if they're saying it right,because it's a great way to pull
them out of the story veryquickly, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, exactly, I think you know, made up words.
We surprisingly we see this alot where authors will make up a
word for a book title or or usean uncommon word or uncommon
spelling or word, and this issomething that you also have to
(06:11):
be really careful of a word thatactually means something else.
And I'm not talking aboutsomething that's necessarily
derogatory, but you could.
I had an author one time in aclass who was really having
trouble, I guess, advertisinghis book because he had
accidentally named his bookafter like a massively big movie
(06:37):
, like the book wasn't calledStar Wars or anything like that,
but it was along those.
You know what I mean?
It was along those linesbecause he had not done his due
diligence and he thought, oh,this sounds, this really conveys
what the book is about, andthen didn't realize that it was
a major hit movie at one time.
Oh God, so well.
And and you know, I mean, look,I get that happens because book
(06:57):
titles it's kind of like, youknow, like I get it.
It's kind of like naming yourchildren, right, but unlike
naming your children, you canactually change your book title.
You can change your book titleif you take down the road that
you made a mistake Fornonfiction books.
Obviously you're solving aproblem, you're teaching the
reader something, but just makesure that that's super clear in
(07:20):
your title.
I cannot emphasize to you enoughand again, if you go back and
listen to our book coverdiscussion how many times
authors want to bury the lead inabsolutely everything.
They want to make their titleso mysterious, their book cover
mysterious, to really capturethe audience and in their minds,
(07:40):
like I get it.
Because in their minds they'relike oh, this is going to seem
really mysterious and people aregoing to be really interested.
And then the reverse is true,because they have trouble with a
book title that is maybemisspelled, they have trouble
getting traction on Amazonbecause Amazon can't figure it
out.
Oh gosh, your autocorrectalways fixes your title for you.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Oh my gosh, that's the worst I know.
And I think another thing withnonfiction too, Penny, like we
started the discussion talkingabout author formula.
But I think it's also reallyimportant to get very real with
yourself about what your bookactually delivers on.
And I think a good example andwe've seen this happen with
(08:22):
nonfiction books where a topickind of straddles the line with,
like a memoir or something likethat.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
And so if your book is more if you've written a
business book but it's reallymore about your experience and
it doesn't mean people can'tlearn from your experience but
if everything in it is reallyanchored to your specific
experience and it doesn't meanpeople can't learn from your
experience, but if everything init is really anchored to your
specific experience what youwent through, things like that,
using the term guide or how toyou know what I mean it gets
(08:52):
really murky.
You have to be really carefulwith word choices and what you
actually deliver on, becausesome words, when people are
shopping, they have expectationsof how that content should be
presented and what they're goingto walk away with.
So you really want to becareful to make sure that you're
not implying one thing whenyour content actually delivers
(09:14):
on another, and neither is goodnor bad, right nor wrong.
You just want to be realistic.
So, again, keep one.
The right people will find yourbook and resonate with your
book.
But also so you deliver on theexperience you promised them,
based on the title, the cover,the description, things like
that.
You really don't want to havethem think it's one thing and
(09:35):
deliver something else.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Right, right.
And then, you know, do so acouple things.
First off, I know a lot ofauthors I love, I love chat GPT.
We use it for imagery, we useit for brainstorming.
I mean, we've really AI hasreally found a home with some of
the work that we do.
(09:57):
But be very careful if you areasking chat to suggest book
titles, because I had an authormentioned that to me on the
phone the other day and the bookwasn't done and they're like oh
, I have these 10 titles fromchat and I'm not sure what I
like them and can I send them toyou and they were all really
awful so well, because you know.
(10:21):
The other piece of it, though,too, with AI is that it's kind
of like when you're making acake, right, if you miss one of
the ingredients, the cake isgoing to taste funny.
A lot of times when we areinputting things into AI, we
give it incomplete information,which I don't know how the
(10:43):
author served up thisinformation in chat when they
were trying to get book titles,but I suspect that was kind of
the case.
So you have to be reallycareful with that, because in
the majority of cases you'reprobably not giving the AI
enough information such that itactually bounces back some
really good ideas.
So be really careful with that.
The other thing that I thinkbefore we go on to mistake
(11:06):
number two is check to see otherbook titles that have the same
name right, because sometimes Irealize you know there are
situations where sometimes thatcan't be avoided and I don't
have no clear examples kind ofpop to mind as we're recording
(11:27):
this show.
But be really careful, Don't.
And I actually had an authorone time, this is a long time
ago, who wanted to write booksthat all had the same titles as
Stephen King's, because theywanted to come up in Amy's like
cracking up, they wanted to comeup in search with Stephen King
(11:52):
and I'm like, and you can'tcopyright a book title so people
can copy your title.
You can copy other people'stitles.
It's just really bad business,right?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Good way to kiss a bunch of people off.
Well, yeah, imagine a readershopping on their phone or
something, so it's smaller, andthey just like they pull
something up and they're like,yeah, that must be it.
And they get it and they findout you're not Stephen King.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Well, and you know I actually you know it's funny
because I actually did this.
So I last year.
If you listen to our shows lastyear, you probably heard me go
on and on and on about this bookcalled the Housemaid, which I
then forced Amy to read.
Like Amy, you have to read this.
I was bugging her like everysingle day.
There were other books calledthe Housemaid and maybe they
(12:40):
were older.
I didn't really check the dates, but I actually picked up one
on Audible and then ended upreturning it.
So there were people who werecopying that book title because
it was such a runaway, hugebestseller.
Just don't do it, it justdoesn't.
I told Audible.
I'm like I want my credit backbecause this is not the book
that I thought that I wasgetting.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Don't try to trick the system because, as Amy said,
you'll just end up pissing offa bunch of readers.
So be careful with that.
So mistake number two yourtitle is too generic.
Amy, do you want to kick thisone off?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, and I mean it kind of to your point too, penny
is like do a little research tosee.
And it To your point too, penny, do a little research to see.
It can't always be avoided, butI think this goes along.
Generic can be something that'soverused too.
You really want to be careful.
We do a lot of shows aboutAmazon optimization those that
you listen, searchability,things like that.
(13:36):
It's very easy to get lost onAmazon search as it is.
It's so much easier to get lostif you have a very basic
generic book title as well.
Yeah, it's just, I mean, andthis is where subtitles can
definitely help.
I realize you can't controlwhether or not somebody enters
in your full subtitle whenthey're searching for your book,
(13:57):
but it definitely helps interms of searchability.
It helps your book show up inmore searches.
We talked about subtitlesrecently on an Amazon news show
and that Amazon is definitelyleaning toward pulling from
subtitles now to find keywordsto make sure that the right
books are showing up for theright readers.
We're seeing this mostly inreally popular genre fiction
(14:20):
right now, but it's been therefor a while.
This has been something thatAmazon has been doing for a bit,
because we do try to keep trackof.
Do these things stick withAmazon, or is it something
they're just testing?
And this one is really stuck.
So it's worth, especially ifyou write fiction, to keep that
in mind.
You don't want a super generictitle, because if they just put
(14:42):
that one word into the searchbar, who knows what's going to
show up?
And not everybody.
Also, penny.
I think, if we're beingrealistic, a lot of people don't
necessarily go to the books orthe Kindle department before
they start searching.
I think a lot of people willinitially just put in what they
want in the main search bar andhope they get you know.
(15:03):
But if they don't find the bookthat they're looking for, okay,
then maybe they'll go throughand actually go to the books
department or the Kindledepartment.
But every but you know authorsshould keep that in mind too.
If somebody's just searching onstraight up Amazon, they could
be getting graphic tees, theycould be getting you know what.
I mean, who knows what Amazon'sgoing to put in front of them
just based on a one or two wordbook title, and that's what you
(15:27):
kind of have to be cognizant of.
Again, you may not always beable to avoid it, but it's worth
thinking about, because, ifyou're, I am sorry, we've got
sound department.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Oh, is the sound department there to say hi?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Sorry y'all, that was the sound department.
If you've been on our websiteand seen how we've credited all
the different people that makethe show happen, some of them
bark and it's not always at theright time, so I apologize.
It may not always be somethingyou can control, but what I was
(16:14):
in the middle of saying is that,as you're brainstorming
potential titles, these are alljust things we want y'all to
keep in mind because it's worth.
It may make the differencebetween your number one and
number two title that you'reconsidering when you start
getting on Amazon and searchingfor similar titles and things
like that.
Based on what comes up, youmight go.
You know what this looks like amore lucrative option for me.
That's why I'm going to go withthis one.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and you know it's interesting.
So when you were, um, when youwere saying that, I was focusing
on everything on what you weresaying, but I was also searching
on Amazon.
So there was a new book, thatthere's a there's a new release
book.
It's actually not out yet Ithink it's not until september
and the title of the book isgood things, right.
(16:55):
So now this could be anything,right, this could be absolutely
anything.
So I did what you just said.
I went into amazon and I typedin good things into the search
bar and it also comes up with,um, a children's book.
Uh, some good thins crackers,right.
There are like 10 other bookswith the same title, more than
(17:23):
10, actually I think the pagesgo 25, more than 25 search pages
.
So y'all gotta be careful.
This and, like I, this was atraditionally published book.
I mean no disrespect, justusing it as an example.
But do some searches on Amazon,because we we always recommend
(17:47):
that to the degree that you can.
I realize you know with fictionsometimes that gets a little
bit, that's a little bit moretricky.
But get on Amazon and do somesearches and see what else is
out there.
Yep, because it's really goingto be hard for just to go back
to that title, good Things.
It's going to be hard to havethat title stand out like that.
(18:13):
The subtitle, which I didn'tshare, what also was a little
bit iffy it wasn't reallyspecific.
So now you have a non-specifictitle and a very non-specific
subtitle and good luck showingup right search right.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
And then for non-fiction.
I think it's also we see this alot too penny and we talk about
it.
It's great that we talked aboutit with the top of the show,
like there's only so manydifferent topics within a
specific industry or area ofinterest, right, right.
And so you want to be reallycareful with non-fiction, that
you're not essentially makingthe same promise that everybody
(18:54):
else is.
It's like, what's unique aboutyour voice, what's unique about
your approach, what's uniqueabout your point of view?
You know what I mean.
It's so great when you canemphasize what sets you apart
from the competition in yourtitle or subtitle, versus giving
them yet another book on thesame topic that they may already
(19:16):
have on their shelf, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Right, right, exactly it is.
You know, I realized that it'stitling a book is not an easy
thing to do.
Sometimes an author will, youknow, say like I'll talk to them
, and they're in the middle offinishing up their book.
Like, oh my gosh, I knew thetitle of the book before I even
(19:38):
put pen to paper and I thinkthat's great.
I think that's wonderful.
That title came to you thateasily Because, trust me, when I
was you know the Amazon authorformula Amy and I went I don't
want to say that we necessarilycame to blows, because it never
really comes to that, but atsome point, like, I had this
title in my mind I don'tremember what it was now and I
was like, amy, I really lovethis title.
And she pushed me back andshe's like, well, here's what
(20:00):
comes to my mind when you tellme that title.
I'm like, well, you're justdifferent.
So we have this.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Not wrong.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Not wrong.
I mean, I understand like weget very, very married to our
titles.
If you have something that'salready in mind or if you're you
know down our list of if yourbook isn't selling, take maybe
it's the title.
Do some research and, if youhave, if you've had like
negative reviews on your book,like oh, I thought this book was
(20:34):
about this and this book wasreally about that.
It could be, could be yourcover, could be your description
, but it could also be yourtitle or subtitle too.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I think that's a very good point, Penny.
If you're getting the kind offeedback in your reviews that
things just aren't clicking forreaders, that's a that's a very
good point to me.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, exactly.
And then I think the finalmistake is that the title only
makes sense to you, right?
And I see this a lot withmemoir, right, and I understand
that memoir.
You know the first two lettersin memoir is me.
(21:11):
I understand that memoir is avery personal endeavor, but if
you want this memoir to sell,your title is going to have to
make sense to everyone, not justyou, right.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yes, and we've talked about and you know it's a lot
of.
It's amazing how much thesedifferent, I think, mistakes,
tips, recommendations, whateveryou want to call them there's a
lot of gray area in between themtoo.
There's a lot of things thatoverlap, but I think that's a
very good point, and we talkedabout this earlier too.
If it's not going to make senseto somebody until they get to
(21:47):
Chapter 5, that's challenging.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, and like you said, penny,what was it?
Good things.
I mean, honestly, my mind, justbased on what I read a lot, I'm
like, ooh, that could be areally twisted title for a
thriller you know, it could beand that's the kind of stuff
like to you it makes perfectsense.
But you really have to thinklike, challenge yourself, like
(22:09):
does this make sense out ofcontext?
For who my readers are?
The kind of books they'relooking for?
The word choice Again, wetalked about that.
It's amazing the difference inchanging up one or two words.
You know even in your subtitleor in your title, like it's wild
.
But if the book title doesn'tmake sense out of context, I
(22:30):
think that is a big red flag.
You know?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yes, yes, exactly, and you know, again, it should
be easy to remember, it shouldbe easy to spell, Because what
Amy pointed out, which I don'tthink we've actually ever talked
about on any of these shows, isthat a lot of times Amazon.
So we focus when we dooptimization, we always focus,
obviously, on the Kindle side ofAmazon, because that tends to
(22:55):
be heavier, because a lot ofauthors go straight to Kindle,
but the majority of consumersare just going onto Amazon and
starting to do a search, justlike I did when I referenced the
book Good Things, the book GoodThings.
(23:17):
So you have to really make surethat it.
You know, like the misspellingsand Amazon's going to serve you
up all kinds of things that arenot related to your book,
especially again, if you have abook title that only really
makes sense to you.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, and especially if your book's new too, penny,
if we're being realistic, ifyour book title overlaps with
other products on Amazon thatare highly rated, that have been
around for a while, that sellreally well.
Amazon wants to make money.
So you know, I hate to say it,but they're going to default to
showing them that stuff too,because they thought, well, a
lot of people buy this, theymight buy this too.
(23:52):
They're going to default toshowing them that stuff too,
because they thought, well, alot of people buy this, they
might buy this too.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Amazon loves to distract you, to get you to
spend money on all the things.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Oh yeah, for sure.
If your book is brand new anddoesn't have a lot of weight
with Amazon yet you know what Imean.
It's not really clicking in thealgorithm.
Yet your chances of gettinglost in a sea of a lot of other
recommendations is even higher.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, exactly.
So I think you know, if youalready have a book out there
and it's not really doing thatwell, start to do some research
on Amazon and see.
You know, and I reallyrecommend, do it from an
incognito window, because thatway your search is not going to
follow your new search.
Your research search, rightSorry, that was really a tongue
(24:35):
twister, but and kind of seewhat comes up, right, see what
comes up and see if your titleis you know, if it references
something like the guy who wrotehad a book title with a you
know big movie that was outyears ago and people are looking
(25:03):
it up and going like too, isthat, if your book is coming up
under the wrong search which, ifyou're interested in learning
more about Amazon optimization,we have a whole bunch of Amazon
shows that you can go back andlisten to but if your book is
coming up under the wrong searchand it's the book title's fault
, that is something I mean.
I don't want to say it's aneasy fix, because I realize you
have to change the book coverand if you have a publisher
(25:27):
involved, I mean it just becomesa little bit of a slippery
slope.
But if you're unsure, go onAmazon and start doing some
research and see if your bookcomes up properly, because it's
a problem.
And again, naming your book isa very personal, it's a very
personal thing.
I actually did a coachingsession last year with an author
(25:50):
who had a business book and I,you know, when somebody hires me
for coaching I am you don'thire me to blow smoke and I told
him I'm like I just don't think, if I were working with you as
a marketing person, that I couldget business bloggers to pick
up the book based on the booktitle.
And it took me probably almosta full hour to wrestle that
(26:17):
original title from him, jeez,and he came back to me.
Well, because we have anemotional tether to our book
titles, you know what I mean.
Just like the first title thatI can't even remember now that I
sent you, where we were backand forth, I'm like, but I read
this title and then you know Irealized at the end of the day
that it was really kind ofstupid.
But I say, you know we have anemotional tether to our book
(26:39):
title, so I get it.
It's really hard, but it'sdefinitely an important factor
in your author's success.
To take a look at that makefactor in your author's success.
To take a look at that.
Make sure it's not too hard topronounce, that it doesn't lack
clarity, that it's not toogeneric and that it's not just
some secret word that only youand maybe three other people
know Right, came to you in adream or something.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Sorry, right.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So, anyway, well, listen, we make sure to
subscribe to this podcastbecause we do release episodes
every week, so you want to makesure that you get, you know, an
alert on your phone, um and itwhen you.
You can only review the podcastwhen you subscribe, which is
weird, I did not know thatbefore.
So make sure to subscribe.
(27:25):
We love reviews wherever youlisten to podcasts.
We also love show ideas, so ourcontact details are in the show
notes.
Be sure to reach out to us,give us some feedback on the
show, show ideas.
Is there something that youthat we haven't covered?
Because I let off the show,kind of saying, well, we've
talked about all the things.
There's only so much you cansay.
(27:46):
But then I'm surprised and wedo a title, a show on book
titles, and we've never done ashow on book titles before.
So who knew, after five yearswe could still surprise
ourselves, right?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yes, but send in the ideas.
We love them because, as muchas we like yammering about all
the things that we think areimportant, it's so important for
us to do shows that reflect thechallenges that y'all are
dealing with.
Yeah, exactly Like it doesn'thave to be a fully fleshed out
idea, even if you just send usan email and say, I'm really
struggling with this, like we'lldo the heavy lifting to try to
(28:18):
make a show about it.
Okay, yes, I love that.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Thank you.
Even better than sending usyour show ideas, send us your
struggles.
What do you really challengewith right now?
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you for listening For allour listeners who have been
with us for the last few seasons.
We really so value you and welove that you're listening and
(28:45):
we will see you next week.
Bye-bye.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com