November 14, 2025 • 68 mins
What if the biggest thing holding your book back isn’t the algorithm or your ad budget—but your attachment to a specific outcome? We dig into the hidden cost of expectation-driven marketing and show how to swap emotional gambling for a strategy that compounds. From launch-day myths to social comparison traps, we unpack the subtle ways authors derail progress and offer a practical reset rooted in consistency, curiosity, and clear execution.
We start by challenging the instant gratification mindset that indie publishing can unintentionally fuel. Launch day is just 24 hours; real traction is cumulative. You’ll hear how to ground your plan in what you can control. We walk through why sequencing matters.
Mindset shifts take center stage: detaching through curiosity, treating no and silence as data, and limiting comparison triggers from author groups and glossy posts without receipts. We break down micro wins that actually move the needle and explain why both fiction and nonfiction sales hinge on timing and intent.
If you’re ready to trade rush for rhythm, this conversation gives you concrete steps and the mental framework to stay committed. Subscribe, share this with an author friend who needs a reset, and leave a review to tell us the one expectation you’re letting go of this week.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the book marketing tips
and authors success podcast.
This is Eddie Stance Varyl, AmyCornell, and I'm really excited
about this episode.
I know we've talked about thisin the green room.
Um, I'm excited because we hearthis, we hear this all the time
when authors get overly attachedto outcomes.
(00:23):
And look, we're not saying thatwe don't want you to have author
goals and all the things, but Ithink we want to turn the
conversation of the attachmentoutcomes a little bit on its
head because a lot of it doesn'treally serve the authors very
well.
I mean, would you agree?
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Right, yes.
I mean, it's where should yourvalidation be coming from?
And this also speaks to bookmarketing is about consistency.
Success in publishing is aboutconsistency.
And if you determine yoursuccess based on has this
happened by now, has thishappened by now, has this
happened by now, you're missingout on the things that are going
(01:05):
to plan or things that you couldbetter focus on.
Right.
And it's easy to get derailedand frustrated.
You know, I think a lot of thefrustration comes from showing
up with certain expectationsthat are just honestly not
realistic for the industry, youknow.
So it's not even about like, no,you need to squash some of those
(01:26):
goals.
It's quite literally a lot oftimes expectations are just
developed out of thin air andthey're not grounded in what's
really working in the market.
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
Well, but the other piece of it though, too, is
that, and and this is, and weare gonna give you, so we're
gonna talk both about what thislooks like.
So you can say, oh my gosh, yes,this is something that I
absolutely do.
We're also gonna talk about somesolutions to this issue because
the problem is that social mediaand author communities
specifically they magnify thecomparison stuff and the success
(02:00):
envy.
Um, and that's and I've saidthis before, and I'm gonna
repeat it again in the episodebecause we it's worth repeating,
is uh I I'm not opposed toauthor communities, but the
problem is is that there's a lotof sharing of huge, big,
(02:20):
impressive news and numbers andthings like that.
And there's you know, nobody'sreally bringing the receipts, so
to speak.
Right.
So, and and the other problem istoo, and when I've talked to
authors before, so two problems.
So publishing is not an instantgratification kind of thing, and
it feels instant gratification,right?
Because you can write a book andthen you can hit publish on
(02:44):
Amazon and boom, instantgratification, your book is
done.
Your book is done, it's up, andnow you can just kind of sit
back and wait for all the thingsto happen, right?
So independent publishing tosome degree has kind of fed into
that instant gratification,which is unfortunate.
The other piece of it, though,too, is that I talk to a lot of
authors who don't really fullybelieve in their book.
(03:07):
And I understand that hesitationas an author myself.
I remember my first book that Ipublished, it was it's really an
emotional journey, right?
And I would have dreams thatpeople just hated my book, and
it was awful.
And if any of you have everexperienced that, like you are
my people because you totallylike so there's a lot of that
(03:30):
kind of hesitation because it'sa deeply personal project,
right?
So we as authors oftentimes welook for external proof, and
that external proof, when thatdoesn't happen, that undermines
everything that we do.
And I've actually had authorsliterally with really talented
(03:53):
authors who potentially could godo tremendous things with their
career, just give up becausethat proof wasn't showing up
within the time frame that theyhad determined.
Like, well, I should bepitching, you know, if I pitch
20 influencers, I should get atleast, you know, I mean, 18 of
(04:15):
them should respond to me,right?
You know, um, and uh the samething is true for you know,
Amazon ads or any kind of ads,like I'm running ads, I should
see sales right away.
You know, my I I have thisslide, Amy, when I do this, when
I do my book talk on booklaunch, and the slide set, you
(04:37):
know, the one slide shows thegolden tickets on American, um,
America's got talent, like thegolden, like when when when a
contestant gets the goldengolden buzzer and all the golden
tickets fall down, right?
And I'll say, um, you know, alot of times when you launch a
book, this is what you expect.
And you see the person said,like, yay, golden tickets, all
the things.
(04:57):
And then the next slide says hasa basically a cat holding a
black balloon just standing in acorner.
It's kind of depressing.
That's a lot of times that's thewhere the way authors feel when
they've launched a book.
They're like, Well, I was reallyexpecting a huge, like the
golden ticket party, andbasically I'm just here in a
room by myself, right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
Yeah, no, that's I actually just responded to an
email that we got today aboutthat because a very motivated
fiction author.
And when they wrote into us,they said, you know, and
granted, when people write intous, I don't assume that they've
unleashed their full scope ofall their goals, all their
(05:40):
needs, all their, you know whatI mean?
Like nobody wants to write thatmuch.
That's why we start theconversation.
But this individual very muchfocused on traditional media,
you know, and this is aspeculative fiction author.
There are things that we've doneplenty of shows on media, and we
will continue to do those justbecause we want y'all to be
successful with that.
But a lot of that has to do withgoing after the right
opportunities, not just allopportunities.
(06:02):
But anyway, so, you know, toyour point, you know, when we
work with this author, uh,hoping that we do, you know, we
want to move forward withrealistic expectations that they
can feel good about in terms ofwhat is realistic and
appropriate for the market thatthey're writing for, you know.
Right.
And realistically, that is notgoing to be that, you know,
(06:23):
coveted interview on today.
That's just not how it works,you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And exactly.
I've always been very honestwith authors about realistic
expectations because, and I lovethis line attachment to specific
outcomes turns marketing fromstrategy into emotional
gambling.
And I love this note that wehave because I thought that is
(06:44):
so spot on.
So if you're just chasing veryspecific wins and not building
an actual strategy and aplatform and a brand that
readers and even media andinfluencers can relate to and
understand, you're missing thepoint.
unknown (07:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
And you're going to waste a lot of time and money
going after things that arenever going to come together
because there's too many holesin that plan.
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Well, and I think that, you know, one of the
things that we talk a lot aboutis the learning curve.
So when an author is going italone, or even if they've hired
a company and they're doing somestuff on their own, there's
still a learning curve, right?
And authors tell me this all thetime like I learned so much with
(07:28):
my first book that I would neverdo with my second.
I learned so much with my firstand second book that I would
never do with my third.
And I think that's amazing.
So, you know, if you can, if youcan change this language a
little bit, and I'm not tryingto get like all motivational
woo-woo.
Although I, as anybody who knowsme knows I really love that
stuff.
I totally vibe, I totally vibewith it.
(07:48):
But I think that, you know, asyou are learning which
influencers, for example, right,are the best fit, instead of I
should just be getting morehits.
Why am I not getting more hits?
And then because that turns allthe attention back on you and
makes your you and your bookjust a big failure when really
(08:09):
maybe it just needed more timeor maybe you needed to change
influencers.
And that's where, and I'm gonnasay this again, and I want to
give a shout out because we gota review from somebody who's
like, I'm starting the marketingjournal thing, and I'm like, oh
my gosh, you are my people.
But that's really where trackingeverything that you do to market
your book helps you to see whatworked and what what didn't.
(08:32):
So instead of focusing on thethings that you're not getting,
right?
You're focused, you're lookinglike, oh, well, I did this three
weeks ago and this worked reallywell, and maybe I should try,
you know, try that again.
Right.
And I also think, I mean, Amy,you know, timelines are
(08:52):
timelines are a thing that wesee authors a lot of times get,
they they get very caught up intimelines.
And marketing and and any kindof success in publishing is
cumulative, it's never linear.
And this is what when authorssay to me, you know, if I work
with you for 90 days orwhatever, like what's gonna
(09:15):
happen on day one?
And you know, a lot of times I'mlike, well, not a lot, not a
lot.
Like I'm flat out because it'sall very cumulative, and we see
this all the time, right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
Right.
And I've done a couple ofreminders of that recently, and
our our clients actually theresponses are always very very
appreciative because it is easyto get, especially because of so
much that is out there, like yousaid, the comparison and this
idea of what success is inpublishing, reminding them that
launch day, and not to diminishwhat you've been working on, but
(09:49):
really to give you a differentperspective.
Launch day is just 24 hours.
You know what I mean?
It's here, it's gone.
And can you imagine like puttingall of your hopes and dreams and
you know, potential for successon launch day?
Yeah, no, like we would never dothat to ourselves in any other
aspect of our lives, right?
(10:10):
Yet books get put in that boxall the time.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
Books truly.
I mean, that's like the that'slike the dietary just like I'm
gonna have, you know, I'm gonnahave a salad for lunch and I
should have lost five pounds bydinner.
I mean, that it's it's kind ofthe same, it's a little bit the
same mindset.
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (10:30):
You know, but there's a lot in publishing and
marketing your own book that youcan't control, right?
So you really have to, I mean, Iwe would both encourage you to
stop focusing on what you can'tcontrol and and focus on what
you can, right?
So you can control, you know,how many pictures that you send
(10:53):
out this week, and you cancontrol how many bookstores that
you contact.
Um, but the other thing that weand this is something that I
really love, Amy.
I want you to to kind of takethis one.
The micro wins are somethingthat I don't think that we
really spend enough time talkingabout.
SPEAKER_00 (11:13):
Right.
Yes.
And these are, and it'sinteresting because wins becomes
it's like you have to broadenyour definition of what a win
is.
Yeah.
You know, a win is honestlyanything that you do for your
book, your brand, your platformthat is an improvement.
And maybe that sounds superlame, but I promise you it's
not.
(11:33):
Because as we say all the time,everything is your resume that
is out there for publicconsumption.
And, you know, you're only asgood as the weakest links,
right?
So updating your author bio,double checking your book
description, is it as dynamic asit really could be?
Have you asked objective thirdparties to read your book
(11:54):
description and give you honestfeedback?
You know, we say it all thetime, but it's I'll say it again
a million times over.
You were often way too close toyour own work to be objective
about your book description,about your cover.
Like there's so many things thatbecause you know it so
intimately, you cannot fully putyourself in the shoes of a
consumer.
Yeah.
Getting that outside feedback isso important.
(12:17):
And, you know, don't try to,this is another big one.
You know, don't blow all youroptions by pitching every
blogger or influencer that youcan find the first week your
book is out before you have anyreviews, especially if you're a
new author.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like there's also, and we havedone shows on this, and maybe we
can revisit, you know, a funtimeline show, Penny, where we
(12:40):
can kind of give people an ideaof what goes where.
But doing things in the rightorder also is very strategic.
Yeah.
And not jumping the line withthe big wins, you know.
So it's like, well, I want to domy pitching right away because
that's the exciting stuff.
I want to get coverage.
But the reality is you'reprobably not going to get a lot
of coverage if you are a newauthor and you don't have much
(13:00):
of a platform and you don't haveany reviews yet.
You know, nobody's going tostick their neck out that much.
So doing things in the rightorder and making sure you're
showing up with a product and aretail page that is really
enticing and ready to convertreally is the what should be
happening when your book firstcomes out.
You know, it's not those biginterviews.
(13:22):
That is not the order of things.
SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
Well, and it's also, I mean, you know, when you talk
about doing things in the rightorder, I mean, I've had authors
that have said, you know, I'vehave they or they've they've
come to us after they've done alot of pitching on their own and
they didn't have they didn't,they got no results from it.
And they didn't have an authorwebsite, right?
For example.
Um, their retail page was notgreat.
(13:47):
So, and maybe the maybe, and itcould be, I I, you know, I don't
know without going through theirlist whether or not they were
even pitching the right people.
So doing things in the rightorder is also really important.
And I think um, I'm gonna goback to the journal again.
I I love me some journals, man.
I really, really do.
Um, and notebooks, authors lovetheir notebooks.
(14:08):
I don't understand what we loveare notebooks.
Notebooks make us feel moreproductive.
I don't know why that is, butit's the truth.
Um keep a progress journal.
So, you know, like an efforttracker, results tracker, um,
something that you can,something that feels tangible so
(14:29):
that you can track what you'vedone.
Because when I talk aboutmarketing and publicity, and
I've said this to authors, if Ihad a dime for every time I've
said this to authors in the 25years they've been in business,
I would be doing this call frommy home in the south of France.
A lot of what you're doing feelsinvisible, right?
(14:49):
So, granted, okay, so you'repitching people so you can see
the email in your outbox, like Iget it, but a lot of it feels
like invisible work, like you'rejust sending it out there into
the ether and you're kind ofhoping for the best.
So the results tracker, efforttracker, progress journal,
whatever you want to call it,really helps like, oh, I did
that a month ago.
That's right.
(15:09):
I remember not only to trackwhat worked and versus what
didn't, but also so you don'tforget what you did.
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (15:20):
Yes.
And we haven't mentioned it in awhile, but I feel like everybody
listening so far should havealready seen our book marketing
planner.
If you haven't gotten it yet,you know, let us know, get in
touch because it really is agreat tool that at minimum, you
know, to Penny's point, get thetracker and use it to help you
(15:42):
outline what you want to trackin your journal.
You know what I mean?
So if you don't want to use ourversion exactly as is, there's
still a lot on there because,again, there are certain things
that need to be done in acertain order or the
foundational things that youabsolutely can't neglect, but
that'll also help you realizelike, okay, you better not be in
(16:03):
month four of your new books' uhexistence and you haven't done a
critical analysis of is my bioright?
Is my description right?
Can I finesse them in any way?
Am I keeping my retail pageupdated with any uh industry
reviews that I've gotten,blurbs, things like that?
You know what I mean?
So our our book marketing umplanner is really great for as a
(16:27):
reminder of the things thatPenny's talking about that seem
like they're not super sexy,they're kind of behind the
scenes, and you're like, really,does this matter?
It absolutely does matter.
SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
Yeah, yeah, it absolutely does matter.
Um, Amy, do you want to take theso the the mindset reset
strategies, which again, I knowsounds like we're going super
woo down the woo-woo whole lotof but I love this stuff.
Do you want to take the firstone?
SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
Yeah, so this is great.
Detach through curiosity is ourfirst note.
And, you know, instead ofjudging results and thinking
nobody likes my book, why am Idoing this?
What a waste of my time.
You know, figure out, you know,as Penny mentioned, look at look
at your tracker.
What have you been doing?
What worked?
What didn't?
(17:12):
Have I been doing it longenough?
You know what I mean?
That's another one too.
We've talked about that in thepast, you know, knee jerk risk
assuming something didn't worksimply because it didn't meet
some unrealistic expectation youput on it, you know what I mean?
So, like you did a limited timediscount and you didn't get a
thousand downloads.
You know, it's like, where didthat number come from?
You know, it's like, let's berealistic.
(17:35):
But but then if you've beendoing it for a while and you're
not seeing any like changes inyour engagement, in your
downloads, in your sales, whatcan you do differently?
How can you tweak it?
And that's an important one too,Penny.
I think sometimes it's tweaking,it's not completely abandoning
something either, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
Yeah, that's very, very true.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:55):
Learn from it or what you can do slightly
different.
Because if you are implementingstrategies that you've heard us
talk about or that you've umpicked up on from other like
really solid, trusted sources inthe industry, they absolutely
work for some authors.
You just have to determine areyou doing it correctly?
And sometimes, you know, is itright for my market?
(18:17):
Because that's another thingthat it's easy to fall into the
trap of I read that this is athing, so it's gotta work for
me.
You know, that's not always thecase either.
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Right, exactly.
You know, there's a lot of powerin detachment.
I I read a book on detachmentlike years ago.
And of course, it's one of mywoo-woo titles.
I just lie that I just love, butthere's so much power in
detaching from an outcome thatreally keeps, you know, it it's
(18:49):
also it it's detachment is muchmore motivating than control is,
frankly.
Right.
The other thing is, is y'allgotta live stop comparing
yourself to everyone else,right?
Limit your cons can limit yourcomparison triggers.
You know, again, I am notopposed to author Facebook
(19:09):
groups, great metricsdashboards, things like that.
Like I should be doing better, Ishould be doing better.
A lot of these posts, they'rethey're not really, they're not
and and and I'm not saying thateverybody on Facebook is lying.
Like, I don't want to go back toyour group and say, Penny said
y'all are lying.
Like, don't don't don't beposting that.
But I uh people need to bringthe receipts for those posts,
(19:34):
because I've seen that and maybethey are doing great, and you
know, cheer them on.
I mean, I think that's amazing,right?
But be just be really mindful ofthat because right, you know,
not all of it is not all of itis really authentic.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
That's a really that's a tough one because
candidly very tough.
Unless you have written a bookfor the exact same, exact same
readers.
Yep, you use the same coverdesigner, and you each have the
same, you know what I mean?
That it would take you literallyhours to make the kind of
comparisons to make sure it alllined up before it would ever be
(20:11):
realistic to compare yourself toanother author.
There are just so many factorsthat are involved.
And realistically, the ones thatyou are seeing that are
celebrating these wins andsharing these wins, they were
where you are right now at somepoint.
They just weren't clouding thatfrom the rooftop.
So be mindful of that as well,you know.
SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
Exactly.
It's uh it's kind of like whenthey talk about so I remember
when Adele first first onto thescene, right?
And everybody was just like, ohmy gosh, she's an overnight
success.
Right, right.
And that that's you know, and II think she was actually asked
at an interview one time and shejust laughed.
That literally never happens toanybody.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
Yeah, exactly.
You know, you know, even peoplethat have a their quote unquote
breakout book, they've writtenother things.
You know what I mean?
Just because they had abreakout, just because the a
book was a quick success for aparticular author that you may
have read about or that actuallymade the news at one point or
(21:12):
was a headline, they've writtenbefore that didn't go anywhere.
You know what I mean?
So just also keep that in mindthat even big name household
name authors that seem like theyhad a breakout moment, they had
a lot of frustration, a lot ofno's, a lot of duds.
That's just part of life,candidly.
(21:33):
You know?
SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Um, you want to take the nextone?
I I I love this one.
I mean, I have a lot to saybecause man, that's a tough one.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Right.
Each no is not is data, it's notdefeat.
And that is very hard,especially when I feel like
you're getting a lot more no'sthan yeses.
And that is something that weactually work with a lot of, you
know, we talk through with a lotof our clients, um, you know,
especially those that had bigmedia plans, big media goals,
(22:08):
things like this.
And we had a client veryrecently that we had a fabulous
conversation with in terms ofreassessing what's working,
what's not, what the barriers toentry may be.
And they had a fantastic outlookon it and just said, you know,
this is, you know, theirresponse was from our feedback
(22:30):
is that, yeah, this is tellingme that X and Y are probably
better options for me than Zgoing forward.
Yeah.
You know, I was like clapping atmy desk because that is exactly
the right attitude to have.
You know, marketing is also alot of testing.
You know, nobody mark, nobodymarkets with the idea.
(22:57):
Professional marketers don'tmarket knowing we know this is
100% going to land with everysingle person we're intending to
hit.
No, marketing is also research,it's generating data, it's
generating insight, it'slearning, and it's what you do
with that information thatmatters in the long run.
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
Yeah, exactly.
And you have to reframe so, andit's not really just about
reframing rejection, it's alsoabout reframing the silence.
So, this is something that Iknow a lot of authors really
struggle with.
Like, well, I pitched 20 peopleand I didn't hear from a single
one, right?
I'd have conversations withauthors about this all the time.
(23:35):
If they're doing their ownmarketing and they're really so
typically, a sometimes peoplewill tell you no, but sometimes
they will just not respond.
And that no response is aresponse, unfortunately, right?
So don't take that personallyeither.
It's just a matter of they getbusy, they only take the, I
mean, think about how we all arein email these days, right?
(23:57):
It's like we all get so much,and we respond to the things
that that are you know part ofsome project we're working on or
something that impacts us orwhatever that is, right?
Um and I also think so creatingexpectation breaks I think after
big launches, um just take takesome time, give yourself some
(24:22):
distance from analyzing, right?
Because distance, and and I'veseen this just, you know, when I
was first in business, like Iwas very much like I want to
just respond right away toeverything, respond to every
email.
And one of the things that Ilearned a long time ago is that
stepping away from something,something that is, you know, can
confusing me or a problem I'mtrying to work out or whatever
(24:44):
it is, distance really createsclarity.
And I it also does that, it alsocreates clarity for
expectations.
So don't be so tethered to yourwhole expectation mantra that
you can't kind of step back andgo for a walk or go to the park
or something, you know, thatyou're not so you're not so
focused because it also givesyou a moment to kind of breathe.
(25:06):
And part of the reason why, Imean, I think not just this is
important, but this entireconversation is we have seen so
many authors give up just shortof the finish line, which is why
this is so crucially important.
Um, you want to take the nextone?
SPEAKER_00 (25:25):
Yeah, so this is another really important one.
And we talk about this a lot toowith our clients.
So marketing is a process ofplanting seeds, not hunting
trophies.
Yes.
You know, I love that so much.
That is such a great, powerfulline.
Because, and again, thishappens.
We, you know, it both fictionand nonfiction, there's
(25:46):
different reasons, but we doregularly remind our clients
that there are so many factorsthat come into play when people
buy a new book.
They're really not the impulseitems people think they are
based on the price point, mostof the time.
You know what I mean?
So for fiction, usually peoplestart looking for new books when
they need a new book.
(26:07):
You know, that is that is veryreal, or when they have a trip
coming up or they know they havesome free time, or because a
friend recommended it randomly.
People are typically not justconstantly trolling for new
books.
And a couple of you listeningmight be like, oh, I am, but
that's I guess I kind I kind ofdo that, but okay.
And then the same thing fornonfiction too, especially for
(26:28):
nonfiction, people typically buynonfiction when they have a goal
in mind that they're ready toact on.
If they have a problem thatthey're looking to solve, like
usually it's very much anintentional move to buy a
nonfiction book, no matter whatthe topic is.
And so, you know, we remind ourclients, and this is if you're
doing your own marketing aswell, these are planting seeds.
(26:50):
We're trying to plant seeds.
So when whether it's fiction ornonfiction, when that person
that is in your target market isactually starting to look for a
book that suits their needs,they've already been introduced
to your book in a few differentways.
You know what I mean?
That is our goal.
That is our mission.
And that should be yours too ifyou're doing your own marketing.
You want to make sure thatthey've organically been
(27:12):
introduced to your book throughdifferent channels, different
platforms, you know what I mean,in different ways, because then
you are top of mind when theystart thinking about the next
book they're going to buy orwhen they get ready to make that
next move with whatever problemthey're trying to solve or
answer they're looking to find.
SPEAKER_01 (27:28):
Well, but the other thing, you know, I saw this meme
the other day that said, youknow, you wouldn't expect a tree
to grow the minute you plant aseed, right?
So uh that is all that is alwaysan important analogy to kind of
keep in mind too, is that a lotof what you're doing is seed
planting, and which is part ofthe reason why we say, you know,
(27:50):
you want to just start that seedplanting as early as you can.
If you're starting it onpublication date, don't expect
those to sprout on day twobecause that's just not that's
just not the way that it works.
The other thing that I want tomention, and I think maybe in
closing is definitely revisitsome of our other episodes
because we've covered media,Amazon ads.
If you're a new listener, firstoff, welcome.
(28:11):
We love that you're here.
Um, we but we've done shows,we've we're going, so next year
will be our sixth year.
I can't believe it.
We've done shows on pretty muchanything Amazon ads, influencer
pitching, all the all thethings.
And and I think that it's justimportant to make sure that your
expectations are actuallyaligning with the current
(28:34):
marketplace and what themarketplace needs.
And and one of the ways that youcan also do that is so the
Alliance of Independent Authorsjust had their conference.
I'm actually listening to someof their some of the classes
they did.
They did a terrific job uh thisyear, as they always do.
But, you know, start to attendsome some writers' conferences,
whether in person or virtual.
That'll give you a really good,a better sense, I think, of what
(28:57):
the, you know, what themarketplace, you know, what the
marketplace needs.
Um so, you know, Amy said thisearly on in the show.
Success is consistency, right?
Consistency and consistency inanything, you know, consist just
consistently showing up, umfocusing on your readers and not
(29:21):
getting so hung up on theresults that you may or may not
be getting, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:31):
Yeah, I think it's definitely I love this.
Success is about control, isn'tabout control, it's about
commitment.
Yeah.
You know, that is very muchtrue.
And that is one of the things.
And we've mentioned this before,and I think it gets lost a lot
that every marketing efforttypically there's two or three
(29:53):
additional things that you cando to support that.
Does that make sense, Penny?
Because it this feel.
Hello and welcome back to the book marketing tips
and authors success podcast.
This is Eddie Stance Varyl, AmyCornell, and I'm really excited
about this episode.
I know we've talked about thisin the green room.
Um, I'm excited because we hearthis, we hear this all the time
when authors get overly attachedto outcomes.
(00:23):
And look, we're not saying thatwe don't want you to have author
goals and all the things, but Ithink we want to turn the
conversation of the attachmentoutcomes a little bit on its
head because a lot of it doesn'treally serve the authors very
well.
I mean, would you agree?
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Right, yes.
I mean, it's where should yourvalidation be coming from?
And this also speaks to bookmarketing is about consistency.
Success in publishing is aboutconsistency.
And if you determine yoursuccess based on has this
happened by now, has thishappened by now, has this
happened by now, you're missingout on the things that are going
(01:05):
to plan or things that you couldbetter focus on.
Right.
And it's easy to get derailedand frustrated.
You know, I think a lot of thefrustration comes from showing
up with certain expectationsthat are just honestly not
realistic for the industry, youknow.
So it's not even about like, no,you need to squash some of those
(01:26):
goals.
It's quite literally a lot oftimes expectations are just
developed out of thin air andthey're not grounded in what's
really working in the market.
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
Well, but the other piece of it though, too, is
that, and and this is, and weare gonna give you, so we're
gonna talk both about what thislooks like.
So you can say, oh my gosh, yes,this is something that I
absolutely do.
We're also gonna talk about somesolutions to this issue because
the problem is that social mediaand author communities
specifically they magnify thecomparison stuff and the success
(02:00):
envy.
Um, and that's and I've saidthis before, and I'm gonna
repeat it again in the episodebecause we it's worth repeating,
is uh I I'm not opposed toauthor communities, but the
problem is is that there's a lotof sharing of huge, big,
(02:20):
impressive news and numbers andthings like that.
And there's you know, nobody'sreally bringing the receipts, so
to speak.
Right.
So, and and the other problem istoo, and when I've talked to
authors before, so two problems.
So publishing is not an instantgratification kind of thing, and
it feels instant gratification,right?
Because you can write a book andthen you can hit publish on
(02:44):
Amazon and boom, instantgratification, your book is
done.
Your book is done, it's up, andnow you can just kind of sit
back and wait for all the thingsto happen, right?
So independent publishing tosome degree has kind of fed into
that instant gratification,which is unfortunate.
The other piece of it, though,too, is that I talk to a lot of
authors who don't really fullybelieve in their book.
(03:07):
And I understand that hesitationas an author myself.
I remember my first book that Ipublished, it was it's really an
emotional journey, right?
And I would have dreams thatpeople just hated my book, and
it was awful.
And if any of you have everexperienced that, like you are
my people because you totallylike so there's a lot of that
(03:30):
kind of hesitation because it'sa deeply personal project,
right?
So we as authors oftentimes welook for external proof, and
that external proof, when thatdoesn't happen, that undermines
everything that we do.
And I've actually had authorsliterally with really talented
(03:53):
authors who potentially could godo tremendous things with their
career, just give up becausethat proof wasn't showing up
within the time frame that theyhad determined.
Like, well, I should bepitching, you know, if I pitch
20 influencers, I should get atleast, you know, I mean, 18 of
(04:15):
them should respond to me,right?
You know, um, and uh the samething is true for you know,
Amazon ads or any kind of ads,like I'm running ads, I should
see sales right away.
You know, my I I have thisslide, Amy, when I do this, when
I do my book talk on booklaunch, and the slide set, you
(04:37):
know, the one slide shows thegolden tickets on American, um,
America's got talent, like thegolden, like when when when a
contestant gets the goldengolden buzzer and all the golden
tickets fall down, right?
And I'll say, um, you know, alot of times when you launch a
book, this is what you expect.
And you see the person said,like, yay, golden tickets, all
the things.
(04:57):
And then the next slide says hasa basically a cat holding a
black balloon just standing in acorner.
It's kind of depressing.
That's a lot of times that's thewhere the way authors feel when
they've launched a book.
They're like, Well, I was reallyexpecting a huge, like the
golden ticket party, andbasically I'm just here in a
room by myself, right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
Yeah, no, that's I actually just responded to an
email that we got today aboutthat because a very motivated
fiction author.
And when they wrote into us,they said, you know, and
granted, when people write intous, I don't assume that they've
unleashed their full scope ofall their goals, all their
(05:40):
needs, all their, you know whatI mean?
Like nobody wants to write thatmuch.
That's why we start theconversation.
But this individual very muchfocused on traditional media,
you know, and this is aspeculative fiction author.
There are things that we've doneplenty of shows on media, and we
will continue to do those justbecause we want y'all to be
successful with that.
But a lot of that has to do withgoing after the right
opportunities, not just allopportunities.
(06:02):
But anyway, so, you know, toyour point, you know, when we
work with this author, uh,hoping that we do, you know, we
want to move forward withrealistic expectations that they
can feel good about in terms ofwhat is realistic and
appropriate for the market thatthey're writing for, you know.
Right.
And realistically, that is notgoing to be that, you know,
(06:23):
coveted interview on today.
That's just not how it works,you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And exactly.
I've always been very honestwith authors about realistic
expectations because, and I lovethis line attachment to specific
outcomes turns marketing fromstrategy into emotional
gambling.
And I love this note that wehave because I thought that is
(06:44):
so spot on.
So if you're just chasing veryspecific wins and not building
an actual strategy and aplatform and a brand that
readers and even media andinfluencers can relate to and
understand, you're missing thepoint.
unknown (07:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
And you're going to waste a lot of time and money
going after things that arenever going to come together
because there's too many holesin that plan.
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Well, and I think that, you know, one of the
things that we talk a lot aboutis the learning curve.
So when an author is going italone, or even if they've hired
a company and they're doing somestuff on their own, there's
still a learning curve, right?
And authors tell me this all thetime like I learned so much with
(07:28):
my first book that I would neverdo with my second.
I learned so much with my firstand second book that I would
never do with my third.
And I think that's amazing.
So, you know, if you can, if youcan change this language a
little bit, and I'm not tryingto get like all motivational
woo-woo.
Although I, as anybody who knowsme knows I really love that
stuff.
I totally vibe, I totally vibewith it.
(07:48):
But I think that, you know, asyou are learning which
influencers, for example, right,are the best fit, instead of I
should just be getting morehits.
Why am I not getting more hits?
And then because that turns allthe attention back on you and
makes your you and your bookjust a big failure when really
(08:09):
maybe it just needed more timeor maybe you needed to change
influencers.
And that's where, and I'm gonnasay this again, and I want to
give a shout out because we gota review from somebody who's
like, I'm starting the marketingjournal thing, and I'm like, oh
my gosh, you are my people.
But that's really where trackingeverything that you do to market
your book helps you to see whatworked and what what didn't.
(08:32):
So instead of focusing on thethings that you're not getting,
right?
You're focused, you're lookinglike, oh, well, I did this three
weeks ago and this worked reallywell, and maybe I should try,
you know, try that again.
Right.
And I also think, I mean, Amy,you know, timelines are
(08:52):
timelines are a thing that wesee authors a lot of times get,
they they get very caught up intimelines.
And marketing and and any kindof success in publishing is
cumulative, it's never linear.
And this is what when authorssay to me, you know, if I work
with you for 90 days orwhatever, like what's gonna
(09:15):
happen on day one?
And you know, a lot of times I'mlike, well, not a lot, not a
lot.
Like I'm flat out because it'sall very cumulative, and we see
this all the time, right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
Right.
And I've done a couple ofreminders of that recently, and
our our clients actually theresponses are always very very
appreciative because it is easyto get, especially because of so
much that is out there, like yousaid, the comparison and this
idea of what success is inpublishing, reminding them that
launch day, and not to diminishwhat you've been working on, but
(09:49):
really to give you a differentperspective.
Launch day is just 24 hours.
You know what I mean?
It's here, it's gone.
And can you imagine like puttingall of your hopes and dreams and
you know, potential for successon launch day?
Yeah, no, like we would never dothat to ourselves in any other
aspect of our lives, right?
(10:10):
Yet books get put in that boxall the time.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
Books truly.
I mean, that's like the that'slike the dietary just like I'm
gonna have, you know, I'm gonnahave a salad for lunch and I
should have lost five pounds bydinner.
I mean, that it's it's kind ofthe same, it's a little bit the
same mindset.
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (10:30):
You know, but there's a lot in publishing and
marketing your own book that youcan't control, right?
So you really have to, I mean, Iwe would both encourage you to
stop focusing on what you can'tcontrol and and focus on what
you can, right?
So you can control, you know,how many pictures that you send
(10:53):
out this week, and you cancontrol how many bookstores that
you contact.
Um, but the other thing that weand this is something that I
really love, Amy.
I want you to to kind of takethis one.
The micro wins are somethingthat I don't think that we
really spend enough time talkingabout.
SPEAKER_00 (11:13):
Right.
Yes.
And these are, and it'sinteresting because wins becomes
it's like you have to broadenyour definition of what a win
is.
Yeah.
You know, a win is honestlyanything that you do for your
book, your brand, your platformthat is an improvement.
And maybe that sounds superlame, but I promise you it's
not.
(11:33):
Because as we say all the time,everything is your resume that
is out there for publicconsumption.
And, you know, you're only asgood as the weakest links,
right?
So updating your author bio,double checking your book
description, is it as dynamic asit really could be?
Have you asked objective thirdparties to read your book
(11:54):
description and give you honestfeedback?
You know, we say it all thetime, but it's I'll say it again
a million times over.
You were often way too close toyour own work to be objective
about your book description,about your cover.
Like there's so many things thatbecause you know it so
intimately, you cannot fully putyourself in the shoes of a
consumer.
Yeah.
Getting that outside feedback isso important.
(12:17):
And, you know, don't try to,this is another big one.
You know, don't blow all youroptions by pitching every
blogger or influencer that youcan find the first week your
book is out before you have anyreviews, especially if you're a
new author.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like there's also, and we havedone shows on this, and maybe we
can revisit, you know, a funtimeline show, Penny, where we
(12:40):
can kind of give people an ideaof what goes where.
But doing things in the rightorder also is very strategic.
Yeah.
And not jumping the line withthe big wins, you know.
So it's like, well, I want to domy pitching right away because
that's the exciting stuff.
I want to get coverage.
But the reality is you'reprobably not going to get a lot
of coverage if you are a newauthor and you don't have much
(13:00):
of a platform and you don't haveany reviews yet.
You know, nobody's going tostick their neck out that much.
So doing things in the rightorder and making sure you're
showing up with a product and aretail page that is really
enticing and ready to convertreally is the what should be
happening when your book firstcomes out.
You know, it's not those biginterviews.
(13:22):
That is not the order of things.
SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
Well, and it's also, I mean, you know, when you talk
about doing things in the rightorder, I mean, I've had authors
that have said, you know, I'vehave they or they've they've
come to us after they've done alot of pitching on their own and
they didn't have they didn't,they got no results from it.
And they didn't have an authorwebsite, right?
For example.
Um, their retail page was notgreat.
(13:47):
So, and maybe the maybe, and itcould be, I I, you know, I don't
know without going through theirlist whether or not they were
even pitching the right people.
So doing things in the rightorder is also really important.
And I think um, I'm gonna goback to the journal again.
I I love me some journals, man.
I really, really do.
Um, and notebooks, authors lovetheir notebooks.
(14:08):
I don't understand what we loveare notebooks.
Notebooks make us feel moreproductive.
I don't know why that is, butit's the truth.
Um keep a progress journal.
So, you know, like an efforttracker, results tracker, um,
something that you can,something that feels tangible so
(14:29):
that you can track what you'vedone.
Because when I talk aboutmarketing and publicity, and
I've said this to authors, if Ihad a dime for every time I've
said this to authors in the 25years they've been in business,
I would be doing this call frommy home in the south of France.
A lot of what you're doing feelsinvisible, right?
(14:49):
So, granted, okay, so you'repitching people so you can see
the email in your outbox, like Iget it, but a lot of it feels
like invisible work, like you'rejust sending it out there into
the ether and you're kind ofhoping for the best.
So the results tracker, efforttracker, progress journal,
whatever you want to call it,really helps like, oh, I did
that a month ago.
That's right.
(15:09):
I remember not only to trackwhat worked and versus what
didn't, but also so you don'tforget what you did.
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (15:20):
Yes.
And we haven't mentioned it in awhile, but I feel like everybody
listening so far should havealready seen our book marketing
planner.
If you haven't gotten it yet,you know, let us know, get in
touch because it really is agreat tool that at minimum, you
know, to Penny's point, get thetracker and use it to help you
(15:42):
outline what you want to trackin your journal.
You know what I mean?
So if you don't want to use ourversion exactly as is, there's
still a lot on there because,again, there are certain things
that need to be done in acertain order or the
foundational things that youabsolutely can't neglect, but
that'll also help you realizelike, okay, you better not be in
(16:03):
month four of your new books' uhexistence and you haven't done a
critical analysis of is my bioright?
Is my description right?
Can I finesse them in any way?
Am I keeping my retail pageupdated with any uh industry
reviews that I've gotten,blurbs, things like that?
You know what I mean?
So our our book marketing umplanner is really great for as a
(16:27):
reminder of the things thatPenny's talking about that seem
like they're not super sexy,they're kind of behind the
scenes, and you're like, really,does this matter?
It absolutely does matter.
SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
Yeah, yeah, it absolutely does matter.
Um, Amy, do you want to take theso the the mindset reset
strategies, which again, I knowsounds like we're going super
woo down the woo-woo whole lotof but I love this stuff.
Do you want to take the firstone?
SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
Yeah, so this is great.
Detach through curiosity is ourfirst note.
And, you know, instead ofjudging results and thinking
nobody likes my book, why am Idoing this?
What a waste of my time.
You know, figure out, you know,as Penny mentioned, look at look
at your tracker.
What have you been doing?
What worked?
What didn't?
(17:12):
Have I been doing it longenough?
You know what I mean?
That's another one too.
We've talked about that in thepast, you know, knee jerk risk
assuming something didn't worksimply because it didn't meet
some unrealistic expectation youput on it, you know what I mean?
So, like you did a limited timediscount and you didn't get a
thousand downloads.
You know, it's like, where didthat number come from?
You know, it's like, let's berealistic.
(17:35):
But but then if you've beendoing it for a while and you're
not seeing any like changes inyour engagement, in your
downloads, in your sales, whatcan you do differently?
How can you tweak it?
And that's an important one too,Penny.
I think sometimes it's tweaking,it's not completely abandoning
something either, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
Yeah, that's very, very true.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:55):
Learn from it or what you can do slightly
different.
Because if you are implementingstrategies that you've heard us
talk about or that you've umpicked up on from other like
really solid, trusted sources inthe industry, they absolutely
work for some authors.
You just have to determine areyou doing it correctly?
And sometimes, you know, is itright for my market?
(18:17):
Because that's another thingthat it's easy to fall into the
trap of I read that this is athing, so it's gotta work for
me.
You know, that's not always thecase either.
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Right, exactly.
You know, there's a lot of powerin detachment.
I I read a book on detachmentlike years ago.
And of course, it's one of mywoo-woo titles.
I just lie that I just love, butthere's so much power in
detaching from an outcome thatreally keeps, you know, it it's
(18:49):
also it it's detachment is muchmore motivating than control is,
frankly.
Right.
The other thing is, is y'allgotta live stop comparing
yourself to everyone else,right?
Limit your cons can limit yourcomparison triggers.
You know, again, I am notopposed to author Facebook
(19:09):
groups, great metricsdashboards, things like that.
Like I should be doing better, Ishould be doing better.
A lot of these posts, they'rethey're not really, they're not
and and and I'm not saying thateverybody on Facebook is lying.
Like, I don't want to go back toyour group and say, Penny said
y'all are lying.
Like, don't don't don't beposting that.
But I uh people need to bringthe receipts for those posts,
(19:34):
because I've seen that and maybethey are doing great, and you
know, cheer them on.
I mean, I think that's amazing,right?
But be just be really mindful ofthat because right, you know,
not all of it is not all of itis really authentic.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
That's a really that's a tough one because
candidly very tough.
Unless you have written a bookfor the exact same, exact same
readers.
Yep, you use the same coverdesigner, and you each have the
same, you know what I mean?
That it would take you literallyhours to make the kind of
comparisons to make sure it alllined up before it would ever be
(20:11):
realistic to compare yourself toanother author.
There are just so many factorsthat are involved.
And realistically, the ones thatyou are seeing that are
celebrating these wins andsharing these wins, they were
where you are right now at somepoint.
They just weren't clouding thatfrom the rooftop.
So be mindful of that as well,you know.
SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
Exactly.
It's uh it's kind of like whenthey talk about so I remember
when Adele first first onto thescene, right?
And everybody was just like, ohmy gosh, she's an overnight
success.
Right, right.
And that that's you know, and II think she was actually asked
at an interview one time and shejust laughed.
That literally never happens toanybody.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
Yeah, exactly.
You know, you know, even peoplethat have a their quote unquote
breakout book, they've writtenother things.
You know what I mean?
Just because they had abreakout, just because the a
book was a quick success for aparticular author that you may
have read about or that actuallymade the news at one point or
(21:12):
was a headline, they've writtenbefore that didn't go anywhere.
You know what I mean?
So just also keep that in mindthat even big name household
name authors that seem like theyhad a breakout moment, they had
a lot of frustration, a lot ofno's, a lot of duds.
That's just part of life,candidly.
(21:33):
You know?
SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Um, you want to take the nextone?
I I I love this one.
I mean, I have a lot to saybecause man, that's a tough one.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Right.
Each no is not is data, it's notdefeat.
And that is very hard,especially when I feel like
you're getting a lot more no'sthan yeses.
And that is something that weactually work with a lot of, you
know, we talk through with a lotof our clients, um, you know,
especially those that had bigmedia plans, big media goals,
(22:08):
things like this.
And we had a client veryrecently that we had a fabulous
conversation with in terms ofreassessing what's working,
what's not, what the barriers toentry may be.
And they had a fantastic outlookon it and just said, you know,
this is, you know, theirresponse was from our feedback
(22:30):
is that, yeah, this is tellingme that X and Y are probably
better options for me than Zgoing forward.
Yeah.
You know, I was like clapping atmy desk because that is exactly
the right attitude to have.
You know, marketing is also alot of testing.
You know, nobody mark, nobodymarkets with the idea.
(22:57):
Professional marketers don'tmarket knowing we know this is
100% going to land with everysingle person we're intending to
hit.
No, marketing is also research,it's generating data, it's
generating insight, it'slearning, and it's what you do
with that information thatmatters in the long run.
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
Yeah, exactly.
And you have to reframe so, andit's not really just about
reframing rejection, it's alsoabout reframing the silence.
So, this is something that Iknow a lot of authors really
struggle with.
Like, well, I pitched 20 peopleand I didn't hear from a single
one, right?
I'd have conversations withauthors about this all the time.
(23:35):
If they're doing their ownmarketing and they're really so
typically, a sometimes peoplewill tell you no, but sometimes
they will just not respond.
And that no response is aresponse, unfortunately, right?
So don't take that personallyeither.
It's just a matter of they getbusy, they only take the, I
mean, think about how we all arein email these days, right?
(23:57):
It's like we all get so much,and we respond to the things
that that are you know part ofsome project we're working on or
something that impacts us orwhatever that is, right?
Um and I also think so creatingexpectation breaks I think after
big launches, um just take takesome time, give yourself some
(24:22):
distance from analyzing, right?
Because distance, and and I'veseen this just, you know, when I
was first in business, like Iwas very much like I want to
just respond right away toeverything, respond to every
email.
And one of the things that Ilearned a long time ago is that
stepping away from something,something that is, you know, can
confusing me or a problem I'mtrying to work out or whatever
(24:44):
it is, distance really createsclarity.
And I it also does that, it alsocreates clarity for
expectations.
So don't be so tethered to yourwhole expectation mantra that
you can't kind of step back andgo for a walk or go to the park
or something, you know, thatyou're not so you're not so
focused because it also givesyou a moment to kind of breathe.
(25:06):
And part of the reason why, Imean, I think not just this is
important, but this entireconversation is we have seen so
many authors give up just shortof the finish line, which is why
this is so crucially important.
Um, you want to take the nextone?
SPEAKER_00 (25:25):
Yeah, so this is another really important one.
And we talk about this a lot toowith our clients.
So marketing is a process ofplanting seeds, not hunting
trophies.
Yes.
You know, I love that so much.
That is such a great, powerfulline.
Because, and again, thishappens.
We, you know, it both fictionand nonfiction, there's
(25:46):
different reasons, but we doregularly remind our clients
that there are so many factorsthat come into play when people
buy a new book.
They're really not the impulseitems people think they are
based on the price point, mostof the time.
You know what I mean?
So for fiction, usually peoplestart looking for new books when
they need a new book.
(26:07):
You know, that is that is veryreal, or when they have a trip
coming up or they know they havesome free time, or because a
friend recommended it randomly.
People are typically not justconstantly trolling for new
books.
And a couple of you listeningmight be like, oh, I am, but
that's I guess I kind I kind ofdo that, but okay.
And then the same thing fornonfiction too, especially for
(26:28):
nonfiction, people typically buynonfiction when they have a goal
in mind that they're ready toact on.
If they have a problem thatthey're looking to solve, like
usually it's very much anintentional move to buy a
nonfiction book, no matter whatthe topic is.
And so, you know, we remind ourclients, and this is if you're
doing your own marketing aswell, these are planting seeds.
(26:50):
We're trying to plant seeds.
So when whether it's fiction ornonfiction, when that person
that is in your target market isactually starting to look for a
book that suits their needs,they've already been introduced
to your book in a few differentways.
You know what I mean?
That is our goal.
That is our mission.
And that should be yours too ifyou're doing your own marketing.
You want to make sure thatthey've organically been
(27:12):
introduced to your book throughdifferent channels, different
platforms, you know what I mean,in different ways, because then
you are top of mind when theystart thinking about the next
book they're going to buy orwhen they get ready to make that
next move with whatever problemthey're trying to solve or
answer they're looking to find.
SPEAKER_01 (27:28):
Well, but the other thing, you know, I saw this meme
the other day that said, youknow, you wouldn't expect a tree
to grow the minute you plant aseed, right?
So uh that is all that is alwaysan important analogy to kind of
keep in mind too, is that a lotof what you're doing is seed
planting, and which is part ofthe reason why we say, you know,
(27:50):
you want to just start that seedplanting as early as you can.
If you're starting it onpublication date, don't expect
those to sprout on day twobecause that's just not that's
just not the way that it works.
The other thing that I want tomention, and I think maybe in
closing is definitely revisitsome of our other episodes
because we've covered media,Amazon ads.
If you're a new listener, firstoff, welcome.
(28:11):
We love that you're here.
Um, we but we've done shows,we've we're going, so next year
will be our sixth year.
I can't believe it.
We've done shows on pretty muchanything Amazon ads, influencer
pitching, all the all thethings.
And and I think that it's justimportant to make sure that your
expectations are actuallyaligning with the current
(28:34):
marketplace and what themarketplace needs.
And and one of the ways that youcan also do that is so the
Alliance of Independent Authorsjust had their conference.
I'm actually listening to someof their some of the classes
they did.
They did a terrific job uh thisyear, as they always do.
But, you know, start to attendsome some writers' conferences,
whether in person or virtual.
That'll give you a really good,a better sense, I think, of what
(28:57):
the, you know, what themarketplace, you know, what the
marketplace needs.
Um so, you know, Amy said thisearly on in the show.
Success is consistency, right?
Consistency and consistency inanything, you know, consist just
consistently showing up, umfocusing on your readers and not
(29:21):
getting so hung up on theresults that you may or may not
be getting, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:31):
Yeah, I think it's definitely I love this.
Success is about control, isn'tabout control, it's about
commitment.
Yeah.
You know, that is very muchtrue.
And that is one of the things.
And we've mentioned this before,and I think it gets lost a lot
that every marketing efforttypically there's two or three
(29:53):
additional things that you cando to support that.
Does that make sense, Penny?
Because it this feel.
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