March 21, 2025 • 26 mins
Demystifying Kindle Unlimited might be one of the most requested topics from our podcast audience—and for good reason. The confusion between Amazon's KDP platform and the Kindle Unlimited subscription service continues to trip up both new and experienced authors alike.
After five years hosting this podcast, we've noticed certain questions appear in our inbox repeatedly: "Should my book be in Kindle Unlimited?" "What's the difference between KDP and KU?" "Will I make more money in KU or by going wide?" Today's episode tackles these questions head-on, cutting through the noise to help you make strategic decisions about your book's distribution.
What many authors don't realize is that Kindle Unlimited enrollment can dramatically improve Amazon advertising performance. We've consistently observed that ads convert significantly better for KU books, particularly in genres where subscription readers are abundant. This alone might justify exclusivity for some authors.
As with all marketing decisions, there's no one-size-fits-all answer. Kindle Unlimited is simply another tool in your publishing arsenal—not a magic solution for books that aren't selling elsewhere. Think strategically about your genre, audience, and overall publishing goals before making your decision.
Buy Penny's book The Amazon Author Formula
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips
and Author Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sansevierie andAmy Cornell, and we are.
I think Amy was this.
This was reader.
I'm sorry, not a readersuggestion.
This was a listener suggestion,right?
Yes?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Okay it was, and which I love because those are
some of my.
I mean, I love that we, youknow we get ideas from
everywhere.
But I really love whenlisteners cause it's like,
especially cause you think, ohgosh, they listen probably to
lots of our shows, I would hopeyou know and for them to say,
okay, this would be reallyhelpful to add to everything
else that you're covering, justmakes me feel like, okay, great,
we're.
You know what I mean Building areally solid foundation.
(00:41):
When I know somebody that knowsall the topics we cover says
this could be covered again orthis could be covered better or
this could be covered in a newway, like we love that feedback.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, and and.
And this is also because youknow we sometimes Amy and I, sit
around we talk about, okay,what show should we, you know,
creating a list of shows andkind of mapping those out, and
we're going to miss some stuffthat you all really want to hear
about.
So, for sure, send us your showideas.
We love those.
And I also just want to say,for those of you listening, it's
(01:12):
actually kind of shocking thatPenny even had time to record a
podcast today because many ofyou and it's been on the
national news and all this otherstuff.
So the Big Bear Eagles justhatched, like yesterday, and Amy
and I are on this stringtogether and all I've been doing
is like sending pictures oflike eagle babies and eagle
videos and all this other stuff.
So it's like this nationwidelike craze that they finally
(01:36):
have babies, because I think forthe last three years they were,
the eggs were done.
But so, yeah, very just besuper grateful that I made the
time.
Yes, this video.
I walked in my house thismorning after walking the dog
and I'm like I just my housesound like it's full of birds
because I have on my secondscreen on my desk I have the big
(01:59):
.
Yeah, I thought, oh my gosh, Ihave birds in my house, but I
have it on the second screen,the webcam.
So, anyway, yeah, so begrateful.
Penny's here because she's verydistracted with the new little
eagle babies, but always time tocreate a podcast.
Amy and I were talking aboutthis.
Like we really love doing thispodcast.
(02:21):
In fact, we've had our blog foryears and we love the blog.
But we really and I hate to saythis because it sounds like
we're talking about our like,the like, our little AME
children or whatever but we lovethe podcast really more than we
love the blog.
And I think it's because we alot of times, you know we used
(02:44):
to be very scripted and if youstarted, if you've been with us
since season one, you know thatwe are so much less scripted.
We're just kind of like we putsome notes together, we sit in
the green room, we brainstormand, boom, we start recording.
I think we've become we werealways authentic, like I don't
want to say like year one, wejust lied to you, but want to
(03:06):
say, like year one, we just liedto you, we were, but I think
we've become more.
What's the word I'm looking for, amy?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
we've become more, I mean.
I mean I think we're definitelymore natural than we were
natural.
Yeah, that's probably the and Ithink with yeah, without being
so scripted, I think y'all get alot more honest reactions and
feedback as well, you know,because if it wasn't scripted
for us to like get super pissedabout something, it probably
didn't happen as much yeah right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So you know, we and you know Amy and I both listened
to a lot of podcasts and one ofthe things that she and I both,
and a lot of them I realizedwere true crimes.
So they're not really relatedto this genre.
But, right, it's a verydifferent, very different market
.
But one of the things that wereally don't like in some of
these shows is a long preamble,like, oh, the kids are doing
(03:55):
fine and it's like get down toit.
So, with that said, with thislong, now that we've had
somewhat of a long preamble, weare talking about Kindle
Unlimited.
And Is it Right For you?
There's a lot of confusionabout Kindle Unlimited and I
know that a lot of people havekind of a love-hate relationship
like.
Amazon's trying to own all thepublishing.
(04:16):
I got news for you Amazonalready owns all the publishing.
If we wanted to fix that, weshould have started this
conversation like 15 years ago.
So, kindle Unlimited, so let'stalk.
And there's a lot of confusionactually around KDP versus
(04:37):
Kindle Unlimited.
And, amy, I know we didn't talkabout this in the green room
and I didn't add it in the notes, but it just kind of occurred
to me.
That's why we love theseunscripted shows, because stuff
just pops into our head whilewe're recording.
So KDP Kindle Direct Publishingis Amazon's publishing portal.
You can be in KDP without beingin Kindle Unlimited.
(05:00):
Kindle Unlimited is a specialand different service that
Amazon offers.
Being a KDP Kindle DirectPublishing author does not mean
you're automatically in KindleUnlimited.
And I have this conversationwith authors all the time.
They're like well, I don't wantto publish on KDP because I
don't want to be exclusive toAmazon.
(05:21):
You are not exclusive to Amazonif you are in KDP Full stop.
You are exclusive to Amazononly for your ebook.
If you are in Kindle Unlimited,because the guidelines of Kindle
Unlimited are that if you wantto be in Kindle Unlimited for
(05:42):
your ebook, so it's only ebookright now, amazon's not going to
be mailing out print books topeople for free anytime soon.
Could you imagine?
Your ebook cannot be anywhereelse in you know, it can't be in
Nook, it can't be in Kobo, itcan't be anywhere else, but your
print book can be everywhere.
So a lot of times authors, whenthey're deciding whether or not
(06:05):
to be in Kindle Unlimited,they're like well, my print book
is everywhere, so I can't be inKindle Unlimited, and that's
not really the point.
So your ebook, if you're inKindle Unlimited, has to be
exclusive.
And now you can have twodifferent types of Kindle
Unlimited.
You can have Kindle Unlimited,where you automatically
re-enroll, just like you ever,continually in Kindle Unlimited,
(06:28):
or you can do Kindle Unlimitedfor 90 days at a time.
My preference is do it for 90days at a time, because what
we're going to break down foryou in this show is that you may
or may not want to stay in it,based on how well that your book
is doing.
And, amy, because I have mybooks in Kindle Unlimited and
(06:53):
I'll explain why.
But I also subscribe to KindleUnlimited, as do you, right, amy
?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yes, I do.
Actually, and you know it'sfunny, I did that probably
because you recommended a bookand I.
That would really make the mostsense, you know, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, and I probably camewhen you recommended a slew of
books.
Honestly, because then at somepoint Penny listens to a lot of
(07:22):
really fabulous books by reallyfabulous authors, but those also
tend to be they can be moreexpensive too because they've
earned it, which I fully support.
But when I have like multiplebook recommendations to catch up
on, I'm like doing the quickmath, it's like, oh my gosh, it
would be cheaper for me to be inKindle Unlimited.
So I'm almost positive that'show it started, because
(07:42):
otherwise, getting all of thoseeBooks individually, it's like
oh my gosh, like you know thatreally that's a lot to commit to
.
But then like, okay, but ifthese are all in Kindle
Unlimited, then I've got a lowermonthly fee and I can get to
them when I can get to them, andit was great.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Right, exactly, but part of where.
So I appreciate that I did.
I did send her like I sent heran email with a whole bunch of
recs.
I'm like here are eight booksthat you have and you have two
kids and all the things going onand I'm sure you have tons of
time to spend with these eightbooks.
But I think that, other than Imean, most people generally I
(08:20):
mean people can recommend booksbut you still have to make the
decision on whether or notyou're going to get them.
How much do you think didKinlow Limited I mean obviously
that really kind of informedyour choice right?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, absolutely, it was one of those things too.
I mean, granted, yourrecommendation means a lot, but
I can't say that I'd ever readbooks by those authors, you know
.
So it wasn't like we're saying,like you know this person that
we've read, like she's got a newbook out, you know it's coming
out soon, grab it, whatever.
These were all authors I'dnever read before, you know, and
so that was another.
(08:54):
That was a great aspect to this, and why Kindle Unlimited is so
appealing is because it's like,okay, I can test out these
authors and see if I like them,and I get to test out all of
them for just the cost of themonthly fee for Kindle Unlimited
.
It's not a book you know, andagain.
We talk about it all the time.
Books technically are not highticket items for the most part,
(09:17):
compared to a lot of things wespend our money on.
But when you tie in the cost ofa book with, like you said, the
time commitment you have to putin, that's when people don't
click buy.
I think most people you know.
They're just not ready to putin the time to read that book in
addition to spending the money.
It's really a combination ofthe two, right?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
right, exactly, exactly.
And I think that you, I thinkthat you know the readers, the
(10:13):
readers in Kindle think you knowand we get this question a lot
like should my book be in KindleUnlimited?
And I would say that are thereother books that you know what?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
does your?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
genre look like Right , so are books in your genre in
Kinland Limited.
Generally, you're still goingto find.
You know, you're going to find.
For some genres you'll say,well, it's kind of 50-50.
And then I would say, well,then you probably really want to
be super strategic about this.
(10:46):
There aren't necessarilydownsides to Kindle Unlimited.
I mean, you get paid by thepage read.
So if somebody only getsthrough half of your book, you
only get paid for half, right.
And I don't know exactly whatthat per page read is because,
I'll be honest with you, itchanges a lot.
And those of us who have booksin Kindle Unlimited get sent
(11:10):
emails like, oh, amazon has likebillions of dollars and you're
getting, you know, whatever,five cents a page or something
Fine.
So I think you have to look atyour genre.
The first thing there's acouple of genres that we know
just off the top of our headsthat do well in Kindle Unlimited
and those are particular genrefiction.
(11:32):
So romance, mystery, mystery,thriller, right, those tend to
do really well, books that arelike business books, you know.
I mean, you're going to seemaybe 50-50, maybe the spread is
more 30-70 in terms of 30%being in Kindle Unlimited.
You really have to look at yourreadership.
(11:53):
I think people who are buyingbusiness books are willing to
spend the money on businessbooks and in other markets.
Not that they're not willing tospend the money, but again
because the genre fictionreaders tend to be more
voracious readers.
They read a lot, you know.
That start like my list ofeight books that I sent to Amy.
That starts to get, that startsto really tally up, right.
(12:15):
I mean, amy, do you have I mean, have you gotten feedback from
our authors just in terms ofwhether they're in KU, or do you
get this question a lot too?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
authors just in terms of whether they're in KU, or do
you get this question a lot too, I actually.
I mean, they ask about it onlybecause it sounds like and I
have not experienced this formyself it sounds like they kind
of push it.
I get this a lot from our firsttime authors for sure, you know
, as they're setting up theirbook and everything, they're
like wait, you know, it kind oflike stops them in their tracks
before they finish their.
You know their upload andthings like that.
(12:46):
Should I be in this?
And it's like okay, well,that's a.
You know, we're doing a wholepodcast episode, so clearly it's
a little more complex than asimple yes or no, and I let them
know that.
But I think a lot of times whatand this happens with a lot of
things in publishing, so ittends to be very complex.
It's okay.
It's kind of basic on whetheror not they can afford to be in
(13:08):
it or if they should give it ashot, and I always encourage
them to assess if it's working.
You know like, make sure youknow whether or not this is also
going to work for you.
And I had before we get intothat, penny, I had a question
and we didn't discuss this inthe green room either.
So sorry if it's more complexthan we want to get into, but if
(13:41):
somebody wants to transitiontheir book to Kindle Unlimited
on a scale of one to 10, is thata complicated process?
If your book is alreadydistributed wide, you know if
your ebook is in a lot ofdifferent places it can be.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
The short answer to that is it can be.
So if you publish your ebookthrough a portal like, for
example, draft2digital orIngramSpark, there should just
be a box that you can check, oruncheck, as it were, to get it
removed off of those other sites.
So basically, those feeds yeah,those no.
(14:10):
That's a great question becausewe also get this a lot Like.
I think my book would do betterif it's in Kindle Limited and
it's usually related to theAmazon ads, which we'll get to
in a second, but it could takeup to 90 days sometimes less
depends on how fast the systemswork for it to get pulled out of
all of those systems.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Right.
Is that something Amazon knows?
Or is that something you'retelling Amazon you're
accountable for?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
That is something that you're telling Amazon that
you're accountable for.
Now, this is not us encouragingyou to trick the Amazon system,
but whether Amazon actuallyknows that.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I don't know.
Okay, you're just riskingpotentially getting your hand
slapped or worse, if it's,somehow they find it still
listed on other retail sites andyou're in KU.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Right, and I think that you know here's, here's.
The other thing, though, too,is that Amazon will probably
email you first and say hey,your book is still listed on
blah blah.
The weird thing about this isthat.
So we all know that piratingbooks is kind of a difficult.
I mean, there have beenwebsites that help like oh,
we'll take your book down ifit's been pirated, whatever.
(15:22):
If it's been pirated, whatever.
Books sometimes wind up onweird websites, whole entire
books.
How they get them is a wholeseparate podcast.
Amazon does know the differencebetween books that have been
pirated that are being sold onthe, because I have books that
(15:45):
are like that, and what'sinteresting is that they only
pick the really really, reallyold, outdated books, which is
fine.
Make, make your 99 cents, youevil pirate person, right?
They do know the difference.
I've never had an issue.
I've never had an author tellme oh my gosh, I got an email
from Amazon saying that my bookwas on Kobo or and I have to
(16:08):
pull it down, or my book was on,you know, was pirated, and it's
showing up Because Amazon does.
A they know the difference andB I don't know if they have the
time necessarily to go and checkall of those sites Again, not
encouraging you to lie, but ifyou're wanting to be in Kindle
Unlimited and pulling your bookoff of all of those other sites,
which could take a while, youmay want to go ahead and start
(16:29):
the Kindle Unlimited now, andjust you know, if Amazon does
write, you tell them you'redoing best efforts, right, you
know?
So we talked about what kind ofbooks that these tend to be best
for.
So the other thing that is alsoworth mentioning is that when
you're running Amazon ads, inparticular for genres that are
(16:51):
predisposed to Kindle Unlimitedreaders, like genre fiction,
your ads will perform yourAmazon ads, in particular, will
perform much better if your bookis in Kindle Unlimited, because
keep in mind that you arepulling in a lot of these
readers.
If you have one book, you're anuntested author, etc.
Your ads will do so much better, and I've seen this firsthand
(17:15):
with authors who have, you know,they didn't have their book in
Kindle Unlimited and I'm runningads and they decided to put
their book in Kindle Unlimitedand the ads do so much better,
right?
So, um, and do we get this alot?
Like, how do I know how well mybook is doing in Kindle
Unlimited, like do we see that alot?
(17:36):
I think we see that question alot.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I think we get like how do I know if it's working,
which I realize is complex,because, as you said, how you
get paid and things like that,and that's all subjective as
well.
Right, you know well right.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Well, I think that your Kindle Unlimited, so your
KDP dashboard will show you howthe page reads have, how many
page reads have happened, howthey've gone right, and you'll
be able to tell from those pagereads and again, every book is
(18:14):
different because the page readsare based on the site how many
pages are in the book, etc.
You'll be able to get a senseof whether people are actually,
whether readers are actuallycompleting the book right.
In some cases, authors havewill take their first book in a
series and put that in KindleUnlimited to get readers into
(18:36):
the series, especially if thebook is much older like,
especially if they've beenworking on the series for a few
years.
So when you're running ads,running ads on the first book in
the series to get them into theseries is probably really smart
right right no, I love thatidea yeah, and, and you know I
(18:56):
mean I, and so here's, here's aweird little thing that I just
want to kind of throw at ourlisteners too.
So my books are obviouslythey're book marketing.
They're in Kindle Unlimited,right.
And the reason that my booksare Kindle Unlimited is, yes,
it's because of the audience,right, and I discovered this
(19:18):
with my first book.
I was like, you know, when Iput it in Kindle Unlimited it
started doing so much better.
It sounds like you know, a bookon book marketing, like you
would think, well, isn't thatjust like a business book?
Like wouldn't this book not doas well?
And like not necessarily needto be in Kindle Unlimited?
But again, it comes back downto the audience, it comes down
(19:40):
to the readership and myreadership.
They tend to be KU, you know.
They tend to have a KindleUnlimited membership, so the
book does better when it's in KU.
But what I did with my mostrecent book, the Amazon Author
Formula, is I didn't put it inKindle Unlimited right away.
Part of the reason for that isbecause I wanted people, I mean,
(20:02):
and again, I'm established.
I mean and again I'mestablished, I'm not as
established as like maybe youknow one of the recs that I the
book recs that I sent to Amy,certainly, but I'm established
enough that I really wanted toeke out book sales initially
before I put the book in KindleUnlimited.
(20:23):
So that's another strategy too.
That you could do is, if youhave a number of books out,
delay your Kindle Unlimited, forI think I delayed mine for
eight months.
My book was almost a year oldwhen I finally put it in Kindle
Unlimited.
That's so smart and now it doesreally well.
You know it does really well.
(20:43):
So when the formula workbookcomes out, which hopefully we're
still on target for Q1 of thisyear, that book will not go in
Kindle Unlimited.
But what happens is is thatbecause the formula book, the
first formula book, is in KindleUnlimited, it's going to spur
(21:04):
the sales Because I'm going toat some point add a page in that
book Like hey, just so you knowthere's a workbook for this
book.
There's a workbook for thisbook that will help to spur the
sales for the workbook Does thatmake sense.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And it makes me.
Now I'm thinking okay, so if anauthor has some backlist titles
that are not really you knowwhat I mean, that need a new
life, you know, yeah, inaddition to obviously doing some
strategic marketing as well,but makes me think that could
potentially be another option aswell to just try to get it in
(21:40):
front of more people.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yes, yes, exactly Exactly.
And so that's really where youcan be really.
I mean, I realize that this iskind of Amazon's game, like I
get it, but you can still bereally strategic with your
Kindle Unlimited choices, asopposed to just saying, okay,
well, I'm just going to put thisin Kindle Unlimited and hope
for the best.
You can be strategic with it,and don't necessarily so.
(22:09):
You have an option ofauto-renewing it for 90, you
know like where.
It just stays in KindleUnlimited forever and ever until
you pull it out.
For me, personally, I don't dothat with my books because I
want to see how well, so I'llleave it in there for 90 days,
and then Amazon sends me anemail saying, oh, do you want to
(22:29):
continue the?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Kindle Unlimited.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
And then I can opt for to do it or not.
Sure, that's really smart, uhhuh, yeah, because emailing
Amazon to get, emailing Amazonto get them like oh, can you
pull my book out of KindleUnlimited, I mean, that takes
like 45 emails because theyeither I'm in the wrong
department or they'reuncooperative or whatever.
(22:51):
Right, um, so yeah, but but Ithink that I hope that Amy, did
I miss anything in terms of thedeep?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
dive.
We hit all of our points andthen and then some, which is
awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
And then some.
Yeah, I think Kindle Unlimitedis something.
Use it smartly.
Don't just use it because youthink that's the only way that
you can get sales.
And this is another.
I think this is a really thisis a final point If you aren't
getting sales on your book, it'sprobably not Kindle Unlimited's
fault, like I mean whether, ifyou're not in Kindle Unlimited,
I'm just going to put it inKindle Unlimited and now I'm
going to start selling bookslike crazy.
That's probably not the answer.
(23:31):
And we have another show thatwe did a few weeks ago.
Go back and look for it if youhaven't listened to it already.
Kindle Unlimited is a strategy.
That's it.
It's right.
It's a strategy to get you infront of, you know, in front of
more readers.
It's not necessarily, you know,it's not necessarily going to
make or break the success of,because your book will still
(23:53):
sell.
It will just.
It enables you to reach awriter, wider audience.
I really, I think is reallywhat I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I think this was helpful and I love that you
explained the difference becauseI think that's a huge one is
that there's so many things onAmazon that sound similar and
all the different services andoptions and things like that,
and I can understand why it'soverwhelming, especially for
first-time authors that are, orauthors for the first time that
are loading their books.
You know, if they've publisheddifferently in other ways, you
know, yeah, yeah.
So I really appreciate that youwent into that as well.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, yeah.
So again, we love show ideas.
So if you were just like, oh,penny and Amy, they haven't done
, you know we haven't done thisor something, I mean absolutely
email us.
We love your show ideas, welove your show feedback.
We also love reviews whereveryou listen to podcasts, so be
(24:50):
sure.
And you have to subscribe to ashow.
This is something I haveomitted in all of the prior
shows where we begged forreviews.
Well, I've begged for reviewsbecause it validates me people
just but, um, you actually haveto be subscribed to the show to
be able to review it.
I did not know that.
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I didn't either, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
So be sure to subscribe to the show, because
then you get notified every timewe release a show, which we do
every week but then you, you, ifyou're not subscribed to the
show, you, they, they won't letyou review it.
It's weird.
I don't understand why that is,but that's just that.
That's just.
That's the game, so we have toplay the game, listen.
Thank you all so much forlistening.
This is our fifth year.
(25:30):
I know I say this a lot, mostlybecause I'm just so like five
years, like it's amazing we haveso many shows.
If you just found us, go backthrough our the archive, you can
.
You can certainly search it onour website at
amarketingexpertcom slashpodcast.
You can find all of the otherprior shows.
Well, there's a lot of contentout there.
So if you're really strugglingfor answers, contact us.
(25:53):
Absolutely, we are more thanhappy to help you, but that's
why we create this show.
Thank you so much for tuning in, for listening and for being
part of our podcast family.
We'll see you next time.
Bye.
Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips
and Author Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sansevierie andAmy Cornell, and we are.
I think Amy was this.
This was reader.
I'm sorry, not a readersuggestion.
This was a listener suggestion,right?
Yes?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Okay it was, and which I love because those are
some of my.
I mean, I love that we, youknow we get ideas from
everywhere.
But I really love whenlisteners cause it's like,
especially cause you think, ohgosh, they listen probably to
lots of our shows, I would hopeyou know and for them to say,
okay, this would be reallyhelpful to add to everything
else that you're covering, justmakes me feel like, okay, great,
we're.
You know what I mean Building areally solid foundation.
(00:41):
When I know somebody that knowsall the topics we cover says
this could be covered again orthis could be covered better or
this could be covered in a newway, like we love that feedback.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, and and.
And this is also because youknow we sometimes Amy and I, sit
around we talk about, okay,what show should we, you know,
creating a list of shows andkind of mapping those out, and
we're going to miss some stuffthat you all really want to hear
about.
So, for sure, send us your showideas.
We love those.
And I also just want to say,for those of you listening, it's
(01:12):
actually kind of shocking thatPenny even had time to record a
podcast today because many ofyou and it's been on the
national news and all this otherstuff.
So the Big Bear Eagles justhatched, like yesterday, and Amy
and I are on this stringtogether and all I've been doing
is like sending pictures oflike eagle babies and eagle
videos and all this other stuff.
So it's like this nationwidelike craze that they finally
(01:36):
have babies, because I think forthe last three years they were,
the eggs were done.
But so, yeah, very just besuper grateful that I made the
time.
Yes, this video.
I walked in my house thismorning after walking the dog
and I'm like I just my housesound like it's full of birds
because I have on my secondscreen on my desk I have the big
(01:59):
.
Yeah, I thought, oh my gosh, Ihave birds in my house, but I
have it on the second screen,the webcam.
So, anyway, yeah, so begrateful.
Penny's here because she's verydistracted with the new little
eagle babies, but always time tocreate a podcast.
Amy and I were talking aboutthis.
Like we really love doing thispodcast.
(02:21):
In fact, we've had our blog foryears and we love the blog.
But we really and I hate to saythis because it sounds like
we're talking about our like,the like, our little AME
children or whatever but we lovethe podcast really more than we
love the blog.
And I think it's because we alot of times, you know we used
(02:44):
to be very scripted and if youstarted, if you've been with us
since season one, you know thatwe are so much less scripted.
We're just kind of like we putsome notes together, we sit in
the green room, we brainstormand, boom, we start recording.
I think we've become we werealways authentic, like I don't
want to say like year one, wejust lied to you, but want to
(03:06):
say, like year one, we just liedto you, we were, but I think
we've become more.
What's the word I'm looking for, amy?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
we've become more, I mean.
I mean I think we're definitelymore natural than we were
natural.
Yeah, that's probably the and Ithink with yeah, without being
so scripted, I think y'all get alot more honest reactions and
feedback as well, you know,because if it wasn't scripted
for us to like get super pissedabout something, it probably
didn't happen as much yeah right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So you know, we and you know Amy and I both listened
to a lot of podcasts and one ofthe things that she and I both,
and a lot of them I realizedwere true crimes.
So they're not really relatedto this genre.
But, right, it's a verydifferent, very different market
.
But one of the things that wereally don't like in some of
these shows is a long preamble,like, oh, the kids are doing
(03:55):
fine and it's like get down toit.
So, with that said, with thislong, now that we've had
somewhat of a long preamble, weare talking about Kindle
Unlimited.
And Is it Right For you?
There's a lot of confusionabout Kindle Unlimited and I
know that a lot of people havekind of a love-hate relationship
like.
Amazon's trying to own all thepublishing.
(04:16):
I got news for you Amazonalready owns all the publishing.
If we wanted to fix that, weshould have started this
conversation like 15 years ago.
So, kindle Unlimited, so let'stalk.
And there's a lot of confusionactually around KDP versus
(04:37):
Kindle Unlimited.
And, amy, I know we didn't talkabout this in the green room
and I didn't add it in the notes, but it just kind of occurred
to me.
That's why we love theseunscripted shows, because stuff
just pops into our head whilewe're recording.
So KDP Kindle Direct Publishingis Amazon's publishing portal.
You can be in KDP without beingin Kindle Unlimited.
(05:00):
Kindle Unlimited is a specialand different service that
Amazon offers.
Being a KDP Kindle DirectPublishing author does not mean
you're automatically in KindleUnlimited.
And I have this conversationwith authors all the time.
They're like well, I don't wantto publish on KDP because I
don't want to be exclusive toAmazon.
(05:21):
You are not exclusive to Amazonif you are in KDP Full stop.
You are exclusive to Amazononly for your ebook.
If you are in Kindle Unlimited,because the guidelines of Kindle
Unlimited are that if you wantto be in Kindle Unlimited for
(05:42):
your ebook, so it's only ebookright now, amazon's not going to
be mailing out print books topeople for free anytime soon.
Could you imagine?
Your ebook cannot be anywhereelse in you know, it can't be in
Nook, it can't be in Kobo, itcan't be anywhere else, but your
print book can be everywhere.
So a lot of times authors, whenthey're deciding whether or not
(06:05):
to be in Kindle Unlimited,they're like well, my print book
is everywhere, so I can't be inKindle Unlimited, and that's
not really the point.
So your ebook, if you're inKindle Unlimited, has to be
exclusive.
And now you can have twodifferent types of Kindle
Unlimited.
You can have Kindle Unlimited,where you automatically
re-enroll, just like you ever,continually in Kindle Unlimited,
(06:28):
or you can do Kindle Unlimitedfor 90 days at a time.
My preference is do it for 90days at a time, because what
we're going to break down foryou in this show is that you may
or may not want to stay in it,based on how well that your book
is doing.
And, amy, because I have mybooks in Kindle Unlimited and
(06:53):
I'll explain why.
But I also subscribe to KindleUnlimited, as do you, right, amy
?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yes, I do.
Actually, and you know it'sfunny, I did that probably
because you recommended a bookand I.
That would really make the mostsense, you know, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, and I probably camewhen you recommended a slew of
books.
Honestly, because then at somepoint Penny listens to a lot of
(07:22):
really fabulous books by reallyfabulous authors, but those also
tend to be they can be moreexpensive too because they've
earned it, which I fully support.
But when I have like multiplebook recommendations to catch up
on, I'm like doing the quickmath, it's like, oh my gosh, it
would be cheaper for me to be inKindle Unlimited.
So I'm almost positive that'show it started, because
(07:42):
otherwise, getting all of thoseeBooks individually, it's like
oh my gosh, like you know thatreally that's a lot to commit to
.
But then like, okay, but ifthese are all in Kindle
Unlimited, then I've got a lowermonthly fee and I can get to
them when I can get to them, andit was great.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Right, exactly, but part of where.
So I appreciate that I did.
I did send her like I sent heran email with a whole bunch of
recs.
I'm like here are eight booksthat you have and you have two
kids and all the things going onand I'm sure you have tons of
time to spend with these eightbooks.
But I think that, other than Imean, most people generally I
(08:20):
mean people can recommend booksbut you still have to make the
decision on whether or notyou're going to get them.
How much do you think didKinlow Limited I mean obviously
that really kind of informedyour choice right?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, absolutely, it was one of those things too.
I mean, granted, yourrecommendation means a lot, but
I can't say that I'd ever readbooks by those authors, you know
.
So it wasn't like we're saying,like you know this person that
we've read, like she's got a newbook out, you know it's coming
out soon, grab it, whatever.
These were all authors I'dnever read before, you know, and
so that was another.
(08:54):
That was a great aspect to this, and why Kindle Unlimited is so
appealing is because it's like,okay, I can test out these
authors and see if I like them,and I get to test out all of
them for just the cost of themonthly fee for Kindle Unlimited
.
It's not a book you know, andagain.
We talk about it all the time.
Books technically are not highticket items for the most part,
(09:17):
compared to a lot of things wespend our money on.
But when you tie in the cost ofa book with, like you said, the
time commitment you have to putin, that's when people don't
click buy.
I think most people you know.
They're just not ready to putin the time to read that book in
addition to spending the money.
It's really a combination ofthe two, right?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
right, exactly, exactly.
And I think that you, I thinkthat you know the readers, the
(10:13):
readers in Kindle think you knowand we get this question a lot
like should my book be in KindleUnlimited?
And I would say that are thereother books that you know what?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
does your?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
genre look like Right , so are books in your genre in
Kinland Limited.
Generally, you're still goingto find.
You know, you're going to find.
For some genres you'll say,well, it's kind of 50-50.
And then I would say, well,then you probably really want to
be super strategic about this.
(10:46):
There aren't necessarilydownsides to Kindle Unlimited.
I mean, you get paid by thepage read.
So if somebody only getsthrough half of your book, you
only get paid for half, right.
And I don't know exactly whatthat per page read is because,
I'll be honest with you, itchanges a lot.
And those of us who have booksin Kindle Unlimited get sent
(11:10):
emails like, oh, amazon has likebillions of dollars and you're
getting, you know, whatever,five cents a page or something
Fine.
So I think you have to look atyour genre.
The first thing there's acouple of genres that we know
just off the top of our headsthat do well in Kindle Unlimited
and those are particular genrefiction.
(11:32):
So romance, mystery, mystery,thriller, right, those tend to
do really well, books that arelike business books, you know.
I mean, you're going to seemaybe 50-50, maybe the spread is
more 30-70 in terms of 30%being in Kindle Unlimited.
You really have to look at yourreadership.
(11:53):
I think people who are buyingbusiness books are willing to
spend the money on businessbooks and in other markets.
Not that they're not willing tospend the money, but again
because the genre fictionreaders tend to be more
voracious readers.
They read a lot, you know.
That start like my list ofeight books that I sent to Amy.
That starts to get, that startsto really tally up, right.
(12:15):
I mean, amy, do you have I mean, have you gotten feedback from
our authors just in terms ofwhether they're in KU, or do you
get this question a lot too?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
authors just in terms of whether they're in KU, or do
you get this question a lot too, I actually.
I mean, they ask about it onlybecause it sounds like and I
have not experienced this formyself it sounds like they kind
of push it.
I get this a lot from our firsttime authors for sure, you know
, as they're setting up theirbook and everything, they're
like wait, you know, it kind oflike stops them in their tracks
before they finish their.
You know their upload andthings like that.
(12:46):
Should I be in this?
And it's like okay, well,that's a.
You know, we're doing a wholepodcast episode, so clearly it's
a little more complex than asimple yes or no, and I let them
know that.
But I think a lot of times whatand this happens with a lot of
things in publishing, so ittends to be very complex.
It's okay.
It's kind of basic on whetheror not they can afford to be in
(13:08):
it or if they should give it ashot, and I always encourage
them to assess if it's working.
You know like, make sure youknow whether or not this is also
going to work for you.
And I had before we get intothat, penny, I had a question
and we didn't discuss this inthe green room either.
So sorry if it's more complexthan we want to get into, but if
(13:41):
somebody wants to transitiontheir book to Kindle Unlimited
on a scale of one to 10, is thata complicated process?
If your book is alreadydistributed wide, you know if
your ebook is in a lot ofdifferent places it can be.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
The short answer to that is it can be.
So if you publish your ebookthrough a portal like, for
example, draft2digital orIngramSpark, there should just
be a box that you can check, oruncheck, as it were, to get it
removed off of those other sites.
So basically, those feeds yeah,those no.
(14:10):
That's a great question becausewe also get this a lot Like.
I think my book would do betterif it's in Kindle Limited and
it's usually related to theAmazon ads, which we'll get to
in a second, but it could takeup to 90 days sometimes less
depends on how fast the systemswork for it to get pulled out of
all of those systems.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Right.
Is that something Amazon knows?
Or is that something you'retelling Amazon you're
accountable for?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
That is something that you're telling Amazon that
you're accountable for.
Now, this is not us encouragingyou to trick the Amazon system,
but whether Amazon actuallyknows that.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I don't know.
Okay, you're just riskingpotentially getting your hand
slapped or worse, if it's,somehow they find it still
listed on other retail sites andyou're in KU.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Right, and I think that you know here's, here's.
The other thing, though, too,is that Amazon will probably
email you first and say hey,your book is still listed on
blah blah.
The weird thing about this isthat.
So we all know that piratingbooks is kind of a difficult.
I mean, there have beenwebsites that help like oh,
we'll take your book down ifit's been pirated, whatever.
(15:22):
If it's been pirated, whatever.
Books sometimes wind up onweird websites, whole entire
books.
How they get them is a wholeseparate podcast.
Amazon does know the differencebetween books that have been
pirated that are being sold onthe, because I have books that
(15:45):
are like that, and what'sinteresting is that they only
pick the really really, reallyold, outdated books, which is
fine.
Make, make your 99 cents, youevil pirate person, right?
They do know the difference.
I've never had an issue.
I've never had an author tellme oh my gosh, I got an email
from Amazon saying that my bookwas on Kobo or and I have to
(16:08):
pull it down, or my book was on,you know, was pirated, and it's
showing up Because Amazon does.
A they know the difference andB I don't know if they have the
time necessarily to go and checkall of those sites Again, not
encouraging you to lie, but ifyou're wanting to be in Kindle
Unlimited and pulling your bookoff of all of those other sites,
which could take a while, youmay want to go ahead and start
(16:29):
the Kindle Unlimited now, andjust you know, if Amazon does
write, you tell them you'redoing best efforts, right, you
know?
So we talked about what kind ofbooks that these tend to be best
for.
So the other thing that is alsoworth mentioning is that when
you're running Amazon ads, inparticular for genres that are
(16:51):
predisposed to Kindle Unlimitedreaders, like genre fiction,
your ads will perform yourAmazon ads, in particular, will
perform much better if your bookis in Kindle Unlimited, because
keep in mind that you arepulling in a lot of these
readers.
If you have one book, you're anuntested author, etc.
Your ads will do so much better, and I've seen this firsthand
(17:15):
with authors who have, you know,they didn't have their book in
Kindle Unlimited and I'm runningads and they decided to put
their book in Kindle Unlimitedand the ads do so much better,
right?
So, um, and do we get this alot?
Like, how do I know how well mybook is doing in Kindle
Unlimited, like do we see that alot?
(17:36):
I think we see that question alot.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I think we get like how do I know if it's working,
which I realize is complex,because, as you said, how you
get paid and things like that,and that's all subjective as
well.
Right, you know well right.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Well, I think that your Kindle Unlimited, so your
KDP dashboard will show you howthe page reads have, how many
page reads have happened, howthey've gone right, and you'll
be able to tell from those pagereads and again, every book is
(18:14):
different because the page readsare based on the site how many
pages are in the book, etc.
You'll be able to get a senseof whether people are actually,
whether readers are actuallycompleting the book right.
In some cases, authors havewill take their first book in a
series and put that in KindleUnlimited to get readers into
(18:36):
the series, especially if thebook is much older like,
especially if they've beenworking on the series for a few
years.
So when you're running ads,running ads on the first book in
the series to get them into theseries is probably really smart
right right no, I love thatidea yeah, and, and you know I
(18:56):
mean I, and so here's, here's aweird little thing that I just
want to kind of throw at ourlisteners too.
So my books are obviouslythey're book marketing.
They're in Kindle Unlimited,right.
And the reason that my booksare Kindle Unlimited is, yes,
it's because of the audience,right, and I discovered this
(19:18):
with my first book.
I was like, you know, when Iput it in Kindle Unlimited it
started doing so much better.
It sounds like you know, a bookon book marketing, like you
would think, well, isn't thatjust like a business book?
Like wouldn't this book not doas well?
And like not necessarily needto be in Kindle Unlimited?
But again, it comes back downto the audience, it comes down
(19:40):
to the readership and myreadership.
They tend to be KU, you know.
They tend to have a KindleUnlimited membership, so the
book does better when it's in KU.
But what I did with my mostrecent book, the Amazon Author
Formula, is I didn't put it inKindle Unlimited right away.
Part of the reason for that isbecause I wanted people, I mean,
(20:02):
and again, I'm established.
I mean and again I'mestablished, I'm not as
established as like maybe youknow one of the recs that I the
book recs that I sent to Amy,certainly, but I'm established
enough that I really wanted toeke out book sales initially
before I put the book in KindleUnlimited.
(20:23):
So that's another strategy too.
That you could do is, if youhave a number of books out,
delay your Kindle Unlimited, forI think I delayed mine for
eight months.
My book was almost a year oldwhen I finally put it in Kindle
Unlimited.
That's so smart and now it doesreally well.
You know it does really well.
(20:43):
So when the formula workbookcomes out, which hopefully we're
still on target for Q1 of thisyear, that book will not go in
Kindle Unlimited.
But what happens is is thatbecause the formula book, the
first formula book, is in KindleUnlimited, it's going to spur
(21:04):
the sales Because I'm going toat some point add a page in that
book Like hey, just so you knowthere's a workbook for this
book.
There's a workbook for thisbook that will help to spur the
sales for the workbook Does thatmake sense.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And it makes me.
Now I'm thinking okay, so if anauthor has some backlist titles
that are not really you knowwhat I mean, that need a new
life, you know, yeah, inaddition to obviously doing some
strategic marketing as well,but makes me think that could
potentially be another option aswell to just try to get it in
(21:40):
front of more people.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yes, yes, exactly Exactly.
And so that's really where youcan be really.
I mean, I realize that this iskind of Amazon's game, like I
get it, but you can still bereally strategic with your
Kindle Unlimited choices, asopposed to just saying, okay,
well, I'm just going to put thisin Kindle Unlimited and hope
for the best.
You can be strategic with it,and don't necessarily so.
(22:09):
You have an option ofauto-renewing it for 90, you
know like where.
It just stays in KindleUnlimited forever and ever until
you pull it out.
For me, personally, I don't dothat with my books because I
want to see how well, so I'llleave it in there for 90 days,
and then Amazon sends me anemail saying, oh, do you want to
(22:29):
continue the?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Kindle Unlimited.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
And then I can opt for to do it or not.
Sure, that's really smart, uhhuh, yeah, because emailing
Amazon to get, emailing Amazonto get them like oh, can you
pull my book out of KindleUnlimited, I mean, that takes
like 45 emails because theyeither I'm in the wrong
department or they'reuncooperative or whatever.
(22:51):
Right, um, so yeah, but but Ithink that I hope that Amy, did
I miss anything in terms of thedeep?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
dive.
We hit all of our points andthen and then some, which is
awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
And then some.
Yeah, I think Kindle Unlimitedis something.
Use it smartly.
Don't just use it because youthink that's the only way that
you can get sales.
And this is another.
I think this is a really thisis a final point If you aren't
getting sales on your book, it'sprobably not Kindle Unlimited's
fault, like I mean whether, ifyou're not in Kindle Unlimited,
I'm just going to put it inKindle Unlimited and now I'm
going to start selling bookslike crazy.
That's probably not the answer.
(23:31):
And we have another show thatwe did a few weeks ago.
Go back and look for it if youhaven't listened to it already.
Kindle Unlimited is a strategy.
That's it.
It's right.
It's a strategy to get you infront of, you know, in front of
more readers.
It's not necessarily, you know,it's not necessarily going to
make or break the success of,because your book will still
(23:53):
sell.
It will just.
It enables you to reach awriter, wider audience.
I really, I think is reallywhat I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I think this was helpful and I love that you
explained the difference becauseI think that's a huge one is
that there's so many things onAmazon that sound similar and
all the different services andoptions and things like that,
and I can understand why it'soverwhelming, especially for
first-time authors that are, orauthors for the first time that
are loading their books.
You know, if they've publisheddifferently in other ways, you
know, yeah, yeah.
So I really appreciate that youwent into that as well.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, yeah.
So again, we love show ideas.
So if you were just like, oh,penny and Amy, they haven't done
, you know we haven't done thisor something, I mean absolutely
email us.
We love your show ideas, welove your show feedback.
We also love reviews whereveryou listen to podcasts, so be
(24:50):
sure.
And you have to subscribe to ashow.
This is something I haveomitted in all of the prior
shows where we begged forreviews.
Well, I've begged for reviewsbecause it validates me people
just but, um, you actually haveto be subscribed to the show to
be able to review it.
I did not know that.
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I didn't either, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
So be sure to subscribe to the show, because
then you get notified every timewe release a show, which we do
every week but then you, you, ifyou're not subscribed to the
show, you, they, they won't letyou review it.
It's weird.
I don't understand why that is,but that's just that.
That's just.
That's the game, so we have toplay the game, listen.
Thank you all so much forlistening.
This is our fifth year.
(25:30):
I know I say this a lot, mostlybecause I'm just so like five
years, like it's amazing we haveso many shows.
If you just found us, go backthrough our the archive, you can
.
You can certainly search it onour website at
amarketingexpertcom slashpodcast.
You can find all of the otherprior shows.
Well, there's a lot of contentout there.
So if you're really strugglingfor answers, contact us.
(25:53):
Absolutely, we are more thanhappy to help you, but that's
why we create this show.
Thank you so much for tuning in, for listening and for being
part of our podcast family.
We'll see you next time.
Bye.
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