August 1, 2025 • 35 mins
Gone are the days when simply having a book positioned you as a media-worthy expert. Modern journalists, podcasters, and TV producers have become increasingly selective, requiring authors to demonstrate substantiated expertise, professional credentials, and the ability to deliver value beyond what's already available. Your book should complement your platform, not be your only qualification.
Building legitimate media appeal requires strategic thinking. Start by documenting all your relevant professional experience, speaking engagements, awards, and organizational involvement – even those seemingly tangential to your book's topic. These credentials create the foundation media gatekeepers need to justify featuring you. For those just beginning their platform journey, local media provides valuable experience while building your press portfolio, as media coverage naturally breeds more opportunities.
We provide practical advice for connecting your expertise to timely events, creating compelling "book hooks," and preparing for different media formats. From recording practice interviews to developing concise soundbites, these incremental steps help develop the confidence and capability needed for larger media opportunities. Remember to time your pitches strategically – when stores start displaying Halloween decorations in August, that's your cue to pitch October content!
In an age where anyone can generate content with AI, authentic expertise becomes more valuable than ever. Readers and media alike hunger for genuine insights from people who have truly lived their subject matter. The path to meaningful book marketing isn't through technological shortcuts but through establishing legitimate authority and effectively communicating your unique value.
📱Text Penny & Amy: send us your show feedback, burning marketing questions and new topic ideas!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips
and Author Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sansevierie andAmy Cornell, and so this show
was inspired by somebody that wenow refer to in team meetings
as ChatTPT Person, and this wasan author who came to us and is
(00:32):
writing all their books on chatGPT, and if you can't hear how
horrified I am, I wish you couldsee my face right now.
I actually called Amy rightafter I got off the phone with
this author and I was just like,oh my gosh, it's happening.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yep, it was.
It was one of those things.
It's like, okay, we check thatoff the list every day.
We say, all right, we've seenit all, and then we haven't.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, and the idea behind this, behind this person
writing these books, is thatthey wanted to write a whole
bunch of nonfiction books.
So we are leaning into thenonfiction author for this.
They wanted to write a wholebunch of nonfiction books
(01:19):
through chat, like 50 books ayear, 50 books a year to make
money to quit their job.
And this is not.
This person is not going to bethe only one.
So part of what?
So, other than just beinggenerally like horrified and you
know.
And then this author told meand I'm like, wait, you're using
(01:43):
chat, tpt to write all yourbooks.
And I'm sure that I justsounded super judgmental because
I was very judgmental, and thenthis author would said, well,
but yeah, but I'm having aneditor, um, who make the, make
the book sound more human.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And.
I'm like thrilled.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
You what?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm sure that editor is thrilled.
They're like we are like thisis my life now, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So I have to take this robot speak and turn it
into something that people canunderstand.
But the reason that wementioned this is because and
this is not to be like this isnot a downer show at all,
because this is a show that wewould have done even if I hadn't
talked to this person, but hejust kind of inspired it.
Because when I asked them, Isaid okay, so you've written a
(02:28):
book on.
There was these differentspecific topics.
I said you know what's yourexpertise in?
Because this author came to uswith a few books because they
were already chatted, alreadyspit them out, right, and I said
what's your expertise in suchand such?
And there was literally noexpertise.
So it was just so.
(02:49):
The idea was just putting booksout there and hoping that
something sticks, and that's areally bad strategy.
So I suspect by book number 30,this author is going to be like
oh, this was a mistake.
However, all of these books arestill clogging the pipeline, so
we still get.
(03:10):
And then this author said to melike can, can I do media for
this?
This like absolutely not.
And actually that's exactlywhat I said.
I'm like you know, withouthesitation, I don't even need to
read the books?
Absolutely no media, and partof the reason is because the
(03:30):
media has become so much I mean,for a while, they become so
much more selective, right, Imean, this is not a new AI thing
, but in order to get yourselfinto or on television, I mean
even local right, if you'vewritten a topic about fitness or
(03:52):
business or parenting or youknow saving money, you'd better
be aces at all of those Likeyou'd better have some platform
Right, exactly, aces at all ofthose like you'd better have
some platform right, exactly,you know, um, because I mean amy
, when you, when somebody comesinto you, when somebody comes in
(04:13):
and talking about maybe settingup a call or something other
than maybe the book cover andthe amazon, their amazon retail
page, isn't that the first thingthat you look at?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, that's always.
I mean I definitely because weask for it.
So I want to check out theirwebsite If the book's already
out or if they've written a bookbefore.
I want to see what those looklike, what the branding's like,
what the reviews are like.
You know what I mean Becausebasically, I'm putting myself in
the position of somebody thatis being pitched this book.
Because basically I'm puttingmyself in the position of
somebody that is being pitchedthis book, right.
So if I'm going to go online andsee what the whole deal is
about this author, this person,and why they're writing about
(04:53):
this, I want to see what themedia is going to see or can't
find.
Essentially, like, where arethe holes?
Like, what are we working withhere?
Yeah, and that is huge, itmakes a really, and you know it
doesn't mean and for what it'sworth, for anybody listening, it
doesn't mean we won't work withthat author by any means, but
it definitely changes ourrecommendations.
(05:15):
Yeah, you know we've talkedabout that a lot.
We do not throw, put price tagson hopes and dreams and be like
oh yeah, we'll do all thethings that are going to make
you feel important.
You know that is not what we dohere, you know.
So if you don't have anestablished platform and if you
don't have an extensivebackground in something that is
actually competitive with thepeople that are getting coverage
(05:38):
by the media, then we want tohelp you with those incremental
steps that are going to get youthere at some point, if you want
to keep putting in the effort.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, and I think you know Amy to your point, I think
that sometimes the steps can beincremental.
So if you're listening to thisand you're like, okay, I'm a
nonfiction author, I don'treally have the relevant.
I have great ideas, but I don'treally have the relevant
credentials, I mean, I thinkthere are easy ways that you can
start right and you know, maybeit's in like education or
training, because that'ssomething that the media, local
(06:08):
or national, is going to lookfor.
What your professionalexperience right?
What?
What hands on experience do youhave that relates to this?
What other books have youpublished, right?
Or it doesn't even have to bebooks, it could be, you know,
white papers, or maybe you havea blog that you've been running
for years.
And the other thing is is pastmedia?
So this is a really so medialikes media, right, and a lot of
(06:32):
authors I'm actually writing abook now on local promotion,
right?
I decided I really wanted toget just away from Amazon for a
beat and get super granular onsome of these different
strategies that authors that Ireally feel, or that Amy and I
both collectively, havediscussed, really overlook, and
(06:52):
one of those is local.
So if you're in this position,where you're.
Like you know, I have this book, not written by ChatGPT, and I
have some experience, but Ireally feel like I need more of
a platform.
Doing some local media.
Finding local angles maybe evento national stories right,
(07:17):
could potentially be good, butany kind of past media
experience all adds to yourplatform.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Absolutely, and I think a lot of times and we talk
about this a lot you get tooclose to your own work.
So I think this happens fornonfiction authors a lot too.
Penny is that when we ask them,we try to pull different ideas
out of them in terms of what wecan tap into, and they're so
focused on what their book talksabout and they want to get
their book out there and theywant to talk about the book.
Focused on what their booktalks about, and they want to
get their book out there andthey want to talk about the book
(07:46):
and they sometimes forgetwithout some brainstorming time,
which is what we focus a lot ofour prep work on for our
clients is there's other ways toshow that you have potential
for media and it doesn't have tobe so laser focused on your
specific book content.
You know that's creativemessaging and having a
background in anything thatshows you have some sort of
(08:08):
authority really does matter,and this is not a time to be shy
or to be humble.
So any kind of awards orrecognitions that you've
received over the yearsprofessional industry bodies,
like you said, local there's alot of things that you can do
locally in different sectors aswell.
You know there's rotary clubs,things like that.
People forget that.
(08:29):
All these different connectionsshow that you're tuned in to
what's going on.
You know speaking engagements.
Obviously, if you've ever donespeaking, and again even the
ones conferences maybe it wasfive years ago before you even
had your book idea.
But don't leave anything on thetable.
If you're working with a teamthat is trying to pull this out
(08:50):
of you, give it to them, becauseit's amazing what you can do
with all of your professionalbackground when you know how to
get creative with how to use itand how to present it.
And then, obviously, if you'vehad a leadership role of any
sort whether maybe you're anentrepreneur locally and you
have a business but if you alsoyou know your professional
career, again it doesn't have tobe directly tied into.
(09:15):
I mean, it needs to be relatedto your book.
But I do think that sometimesauthors limit themselves because
my book is about this, but mybackground has covered a few
different things and you knowwhat I mean.
But it's like you can use allof that.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, you can, you can, you can
, definitely you can use all,you can use all of that for sure
.
And you know, honestly, I meanokay, so not to get too far off
of the topic, but we've hadauthors fiction authors who have
really interesting andfascinating backgrounds that I
(09:50):
have mentioned, like when I'vedone coaching with them after
the, you know, as we start towork with them, where I've said
because, like we've donecoaching with them after the,
you know, as we start to workwith them.
Where I've said because, likewe had an author that used to go
on all these geological digs,like all over the world, right,
and how fascinating is that?
And you know it didn't.
It did to some extent relate tothe topic that she wrote about,
(10:14):
you know, even though she wrotefiction, but it was such an
interesting facet of who thisperson was as an author that
really that I told her.
I said that really set herapart and told her to lean into
that because I thought it wouldbe really interesting.
So I think that we spend, asAmy said, we get a little too
(10:35):
close to our own topics.
We spend a lot of timeobsessing over.
This isn't an exact, exact match.
It doesn't actually really haveto be.
I mean, look, I've, you know,I've had this business for 25
years.
I talk about book marketing andpublicity, but then I also talk
about you know, okay, so then Ihave these books on Amazon and
I have these books on and atsome point the umbrella becomes,
(10:59):
you know, comes, becomes sortof like this holder of all of
these different things that youdo and that adds to your
platform and your credibility.
If you don't have a website,don't lean into social media.
I mean you should be onLinkedIn for sure, because
that's going to be a great place, especially in particular, for
nonfiction.
But it also sort of depends.
(11:20):
I mean, we've talked tononfiction authors who do you
know who would do betteractually on Instagram than they
would on LinkedIn?
So that's where you kind ofhave to make that choice.
Bragging rights, reviews andbragging rights reviews,
(11:51):
testimonials, endorsements frompeers all of this stuff should
get that's social proof.
It should get put up on yourwebsite.
Bragging rights, seriously,that's really where a lot of
authors forget oh, I was, youknow, I did such and such, or I
did such and such, and it'snowhere on, and a lot of times
it comes out in my conversationwith them, but it's nowhere on.
It's nowhere on their website.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Right, no, that's a very good point and, penny, I
know you pick up on this a lotwhen you talk to people and it's
I think it's underestimatedbecause, again, we you know
we're talking about books andbook marketing and that's kind
of where all of this builds from.
But an author's ability tocommunicate clearly and be
engaging and talk off the cuffin a conversation where
(12:28):
everything is not so, that'ssomething else to consider.
Author, and you really want tostart getting media coverage,
you really have to either bevery honest with yourself, like,
are you good at that kind ofstuff?
And if you're not, you need towork on it.
Yeah, because you can't sitthere and read a book on the
morning news.
(12:48):
You know what I mean.
They are not going to let yousit there and read from your
book.
They want to have an engagingsame thing with a podcast.
You know what I mean.
Those are conversations.
You need to be able to talkabout higher level concepts,
above and beyond what's in yourbook and how they relate into
what's going on in the world orin your industry or something
you know what I mean or for yourtopic, and you have to be
(13:11):
engaging and interesting andgive people something that they
haven't heard 15 times, and ifthat sounds like a lot of
pressure, it should.
You know, getting mediacoverage is a big fricking deal.
You don't just get it becauseyou wrote a book.
You know you really have tobring a lot to the table, and so
not only do you have to beengaging and interesting and be
(13:32):
able to talk above and beyondwhat your book is, but you know
another point that we're goingto cover that, penny, you should
take that one, but relating itback to what matters right now,
because your book is not goingto be.
What's newsworthy, it's yourability to make it make sense
for the audience that you arespeaking to and make it about
them Right.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Right, exactly, and that's where.
That's where staying dialedinto things that are going on in
your industry and even industryadjacent, right, so things that
are happening around yourindustry, and I have spent my
entire you know professionalcareer doing that around,
publishing it sometimes, and I'msure it's like super annoying,
(14:15):
but sometimes I'll send Amy likean email with some links Look
at all these new things.
I'm super excited, cause I getlike I cause I read all this
stuff and I get like superexcited.
I'm like, oh, look at all thisblah, blah, blah, but it, but it
truly, it truly all matters.
And the other thing, though,too, is that I think you will be
a much more interestinginterview if you have these
(14:35):
other bites of information andhow they relate to, potentially,
to your industry and what's.
You know what's coming down thepike In terms of, like, the
news cycle or current topic.
So every time, so I, we.
So I know that Harrow has sincegone away.
I mean it's come back a littlebit helpareporteroutcom, but
(14:57):
there is a new service calledSOS, and I don't remember what
it stands for, but the same guythat started Help a Reporter Out
started this new place, andbasically it's a place just to
get media leads, even if youdon't plan on responding to any
of them, write to me like, oh,I'm not really ready for that,
that's fine, but you shouldreally get a sense of what the
media is looking for.
(15:17):
I think that's really importantbecause you want to know how
are people like, especially ifyou have a particular expertise
in a topic.
How are people, how is themedia really looking at this?
How are they, what are theylooking for, what are they
speaking to?
And, if nothing else, it cangive you ideas for your social
(15:38):
media and for blogging topicsand things like that.
I mean, again, if you're notready for the big time yet, and
that's fine and it's okay toadmit that this will really give
you a great sense of what themedia is looking for, and
sometimes it's very surprising,right, I mean?
And if you're, if you'relooking at.
(16:04):
So one of the things that I loveto encourage authors to do is
find a local angle on a nationaltopic, because local media
loves that.
So if you have, you knowsomething.
So we had an author this wasseveral years ago and this
author wrote a book on bullyingand there was a school, another
sadly school shooting, and I,you know, told this author.
(16:28):
I said, okay, you have to get,and we weren't actually we
didn't have an active campaignwith him at the time but I said,
all right, this is a reallygood opportunity for you.
Get out, the media is going towant to talk to you.
Even just your local media talkabout you know, does bullying
have anything?
You know is bullying part ofthe symptom, like you know.
(16:48):
Talk about, turn your topicinto to the degree that you can,
into different little bookhooks.
I used to actually teach a class.
I loved teaching this class onbook hooks right.
I used to love when we oh mygosh, one of the coaching things
that I used to do with authorswas just, it was just a call on
(17:10):
doing book hooks right, and itwas really, really, really fun.
And one of these, one of thehooks that we did was and this
was funny because I was livingin New York at the time and it
was a huge snowstorm and thisperson wrote a book on just like
getting along like families whodon't get along, like how to
make peace, how to get alongwhatever, and every airplane was
(17:34):
like grounded and the trainswere grounded and all this other
stuff, and the pitch was whenairplanes and trains don't leave
on time, and this was likeright after Thanksgiving or
something.
So what we did with this authoris we took her book about how to
you know family dynamics,things like that, and we angled
(17:56):
it to a specific thing that wasgoing on in the news big news,
snowstorm, everything shut down,people stuck in airports
sleeping on the floor, all thethings right.
So that's kind of what we're,that's kind of what we're
looking at.
And also, you know, we've donea couple of shows on this too,
right, amy.
I mean on timing things toevents like financial planner or
(18:19):
doing something around tax dayor something like that.
Yes, right, but the other thing, Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Sorry, oh no, I love these examples.
Or you know if you've written abook about parenting like do
something for back to school,and you might go, but my book is
not about school necessarily.
It's about this, but it's like,yeah, but you can talk about
what goes on with back to schooland mental health and getting
your kids prepped Like.
That's where we talk aboutgetting out of your own way and
(18:48):
getting more creative with howyou can use your expertise
without sitting there and goinglike, but no, but my book
doesn't say this.
It's like, yeah, but your bookwill benefit from you getting
this coverage.
Talk about what needs to betalked about in your book will
organically benefit from that.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I know.
I'm glad you mentioned the backto school thing.
I consulted one time.
I don't think we worked.
We may have Amy has oftentimes,many times the majority of
times, a better memory than I do, many times, the majority of
times, a better memory than I doand there was an author who
wrote a cookbook on sandwicheswhich is awesome because we love
(19:24):
bread and all the things.
I may have just consulted withher.
This goes back a ways and oneof the things that I encouraged
her to do for back to school wasfun, easy, back to school kids
sandwich ideas.
And she did the same thing.
She was like but that's notreally my book.
I'm like I don't care, that'snot what we're, that's not what
(19:46):
we're doing.
We're, you know, fun, easy, goon television because you have a
whole book about sandwiches.
So it's not like you're talkingabout.
You know you're teaching peoplehow to do yoga.
When you wrote a book onsandwiches Like it's in the same
own the pond you're in, I hadsomebody in publishing industry
who has since passed away saythat for years, own the pond
that you're in.
So that's kind of what we'retalking about is become this
(20:12):
voice and she did actuallyreally well on.
You know she did really reallywell on this topic and so,
looking at um, looking at um,specific dates, looking at, you
know, back the seasons, back toschool, things like that.
But the other thing that I wantto mention before we move on to
(20:33):
the next one is, by the time ithappens, it's over, right.
So if you're thinking aboutdoing back to school, you
probably want to start now,right?
Because I'm already seeing,like the back to school stuff
and all this other.
If you wanted to, if you have atopic that you can tie into,
let's say, valentine's Day orsomething, start.
(20:55):
You know you could potentiallystart in January, early in
January, but I would actuallystart earlier than that.
Think about stores.
Think about like so anybody whoknows me knows that I like
really love Costco and they'realready putting out their
Halloween stuff, which I knowsounds like super crazy.
Like usually at least it's mostplaces usually wait until Labor
(21:18):
Day or whatever, but notanymore, right?
So that what that tells me isthat people are ready for and
especially if you've had like areally hot and bearable summer
which I know Amy I can't see her, but I'm very sure she's
nodding her head right nowPeople are starting to think
about things a lot earlier.
So when you start to see it instores, that's like your cue to
(21:40):
oh I better start to get movingon this.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
That's a really good point and, penny, you touched on
earlier you mentioned, kind ofin passing, if you're not ready
for that in terms of going afterpeople, but use it for ideas
for your blog, for social media,stay on top of what's being
covered and start getting yourvoice out there in ways that do
make sense for where you're at.
You know, and that could becontent.
(22:03):
And I wanted to, on top of that, mention it's also great to be
realistic about what you'reready for in terms of if you're
going to hire a firm, know whereyour strengths are, yeah, and
have some healthy respect forwhat.
You're going to hire a firm,know where your strengths are
and have some healthy respectfor what you still need to work
on, because it's so much easierfor us to develop a plan with a
(22:25):
client that goes, you know andwe've had them say all the time
I'm, I really don't want to dolike, I don't want to be on a TV
, I don't want to be seen youknow what I mean when they
understand their limits.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
So if you are really more comfortable in writing
format, then share that.
If you're going to be workingwith a team, share that.
Or lean into that and look forand reach out for guest
opportunities or adding contentto an industry newsletter or
something like that that reallysuits your strengths.
So that's another thing thatwhen authors come to us, it's
(23:02):
like I wrote a book.
I want all the things, I wantto be on TV, I want to be on all
the podcasts, I want all thethings.
But it's like if you don't havea background in that, if you're
not really well-versed in howthat goes, then you may not want
to jump into that right away.
And a lot of times Penny and Iwill say like that's not a good
place to start for you.
We suggest you start here, butin terms of getting more yeses
(23:24):
and having more wins andbuilding your resume, it's
really smart to be realisticabout where your skillset is and
what you're really ready forand build toward those more
challenging.
Like we talked about.
You know what you have to bringto the table.
To do an interview or to be ontelevision is huge and that is
(23:45):
not for the faint of heart andyou can't just walk up the
street and pull that off.
So be smart about how you wantto build your resume and how you
can develop those skills alongthe way.
So when you do get to the pointwhere you're ready to pitch for
those opportunities, you'regoing to blow it.
You're going to, you know, wowthem and just knock it out of
the park, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, exactly, and I think the other, the other piece
of it I'm really glad that youbrought that up, that you
brought that up, amy is thatdon't do we always encourage you
to dream big, right,realistically, like, dream big
but make a plan, right, that'skind of our, that's kind of our
motto.
But if you're not really readyfor big media, just because you
(24:25):
know, like your writing group isjust like, oh my gosh, you did
great, now you're gonna be onall the major shows, all this
other stuff, start small, right,you're going to.
I mean, we love local, but ifyou're going to get your sea
legs, you may as well.
It's a good idea to do thatlocally, right, it's a, because
(24:46):
that will teach you.
Doing local media will teachyou so much just about you know,
and how, how TV works, and howTV works, how radio works, how
fast you have to be on your feet, yeah, which is I used to do a
ton of local for myself and forsome reason, I guess, I got into
(25:06):
a loop through a press club orsomething and they were doing a
lot of stories on publishing andso there was a year where I was
just doing these all the time,and it never every single time
that I went on local, it alwaysnever ceases to amaze me how
fast you have to move.
And it also the other thing torealize too and I know we're not
(25:28):
really talking about mediatraining specifically, although
maybe there's merit to doing ashow on that there's merit to
doing a show on that Rememberthat the people who are
interviewing you have notstudied on your topic.
They don't know your topic.
They probably haven't even readyour book, right, good point,
they, they have.
No, they, they they may.
(25:48):
Even because a lot of times andI know this because we have a
neighbor I have a neighbor whois works for a local news
station and started out as aproducer and is now doing anchor
stuff and all this other stuff.
I mean they're doing like fiveor six different jobs.
They probably don't have thetime to even like how do you
(26:09):
pronounce?
Like?
The last thing they're going toask you is how do you pronounce
your name?
And that's going to be it.
That is basically what theyknow going in, right, because
there's just not a lot of time.
So you also have to be prepared.
If you come prepared withknowledge, and this doesn't mean
that you have to have hours andhours of media training.
But if you come prepared forall the things, the questions
(26:31):
and all this other and this is Iknow we started off making fun
of chat TPT author, but this isa really good place to use chat
TPT actually just to kind ofbounce some, you know, like what
kind of questions could Iexpect?
Or here's what's going on,here's what I'm angling to, and
really have it, throw out somestuff and then maybe work with
somebody just to kind of get youknow, get ready.
But the more you know aboutyour topic, the better that you
(26:54):
will show up on camera and themore authoritative authoritative
that you will seem and never,ever, ever say it's in my book.
You should just read my book,oh God, yeah, I've seen authors
do that I'm just like, ooh yeah,your career is just really your
.
Talk to my agent.
Talk to my agent.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Exactly Okay, talk to my agent.
Yeah, exactly, exactly okay.
So, penny, can we run throughthese last few bullets?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
real quickly.
I thought these like werereally insightful.
Yes, yes, and why don't youstart off?
Because I know you and I havemany discussions about bullet
number one, so you go, do youtake that one?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
right.
So we're going to start offwith what, like we pull the
short list of things that mediadoes not consider sufficient,
and that is not just us.
These are quite literally.
You know Penny and I can attestto the fact like these are
standards.
These are not Penny and Amy'sopinion.
This is quite literally howthings work.
So don't be mad at us directlyfor saying this.
This is like you said, withwhat to expect in an interview,
(27:52):
they're not going to read yourbook.
This is kind of on the heels ofthat.
This is just the reality ofwhat you're competing with.
Just having a book is notsufficient for being an expert
and being ready for mediacoverage.
So the book is helpful.
It shows that you areinterested in your topic, that
you're dedicated to your topic.
But, honestly, media prefersauthors that have really strong
(28:14):
subject matter credentials or aunique story versus the book.
You know we mentioned thispreviously.
Your book will organicallybenefit from you getting
coverage.
So when we talked previouslyabout angling what you can talk
about based on what's going onin the world or locally, whether
it's back to school, whetherit's, you know, tax season, all
(28:36):
these kinds of things, talkabout that even if it's not
directly related to your booktopic and your book will benefit
.
Plus, you're building yourresume as a thought leader.
So just having a book doesn'tcount.
You have to bring more to thetable.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Right, exactly, exactly.
And then I think that, um, theymay be asking for your opinion,
and that's If you ask me for myopinion.
Obviously, sometimes thispodcast is all about our
opinions, right, but we alsohave a lot of experience, right.
So if we throw out our opinions, they may not be right, they
(29:12):
may not be something that youagree with.
We have a lot of experience.
So anecdotal experience alone,anecdotal experience, isn't
enough.
I mean, you have to really haveyou know, right, let's throw
something out there.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, we see that a lot where people you know and we
get it when we've done a show.
I believe we've done a show onthe difference between, uh, like
self-help versus like a memoir.
I believe we've done a show onthat, where there's a really
fine thing sometimes, becauseyou experience something doesn't
necessarily make you an experton it and you have to be really
careful about what your goalsare, depending on what your
(29:47):
experiences and what yourbackground is and what that book
really should be and the kindof coverage you should be asking
for.
You know to get and then youknow calling yourself an expert
that kind of goes with it, butit really needs to be
substantiated.
You know, just because, again,you have strong opinions on
something or you've experiencedsomething that doesn't make you
(30:08):
an expert in the eyes of themedia, because they owe their
readership, listenership,viewership more than that, right
.
So you have to keep that inmind.
It is not just about whether ornot the timing's right or your
store or your pitch is good.
You know they really.
They have to report back to whothey are catering to and they
(30:32):
have to put people in front ofthem that are legitimate experts
that can add value in some way,and they're on the hook for
that.
So if you can't show them thatyou have that, they are not
going to put you on television,they are not going to interview
you, because they owe theirviewership, their followers,
more than that, right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
And this is where, if you so, as you are starting to
build your professionalcredibility, make sure to put
that you know.
Put everything on your website.
Do not.
There's no brag too small toput on your websites, because if
you're going to call, becauseyou know the media does get I
(31:15):
mean the media will, even thoughI just said that you know, like
my neighbor guy is like super,super busy the media will
research to make sure thatthey're not being duped by
somebody who says they're anexpert but really just wrote a
parenting book because they haveone kid or something.
You know what I mean.
Or six kids doesn't make yougood at it, right, right,
exactly so.
(31:36):
Press mentions media likesmedia.
That's why I said sometimesit's great to start out with
local media.
I recommend don't say no to anymedia, I mean, unless it's
obviously completely misalignedfrom what you want to talk about
, like I get that.
Display it all prominently onyour website.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Media kits really important, yes, you know it
shows dedication, you know, evenif you don't think you need it
yet, it shows you're seriousabout what you're doing.
Right, penny?
Like it's one of those thingsthat just it's a next level
element that shows that you aretaking this seriously and you
are.
You're showing up with receiptsthat you've got what it takes.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Right Showing up for receipts.
I like, I love that you saidthat.
Um, I also think that, when itcomes to social media, you don't
have to be everywhere, just beeverywhere that matters, so you
don't have to be on all of theplatforms.
Find one that you feelresonates most with your
audience and then own that Right.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Um, yeah, I mean, I love the last one because you
want to take the last one.
Well, no, because I think ofyou all the time, because
Penny's been.
You know I'm giving here like ayou know courtesy clap here,
cause she's been working ondoing more video.
It's not easy.
Hear like a you know courtesyclap here Cause she's been
working on doing more video,it's not easy, oh my gosh.
(32:58):
So work on delivering short,media-friendly soundbites,
something that somebody might beable to use in an interview on
television, whatever it is.
But honestly, challenge yourself.
Put your camera off on you know, selfie mode on your phone and
record a video with you giving atip and then watch that back
and see what it looks like.
Chances are you're going to go.
Oh, that wasn't great, I coulddo better.
You're not ready yet.
(33:18):
Work on that, even that simpleexercise of recording yourself
giving a tip, talking about one,like Penny mentioned, using
chat, gpt to like generate somequestions that could potentially
be thrown at you.
I thought that was brilliant.
Penny, answer some of thosequestions, but do it with your
video running and see what youlook like delivering those
(33:38):
answers.
And do you look ready to be onTV or did you deliver it in a
way that would be engaging andinteresting on a podcast, or
would the person start doing thefast forward button Right right
?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
exactly, and I think that the more that you can
identify those, those soundbites, those little you know,
micro conversations that you canhave, which, again, and in
doing video, is really not easy,and if you've listened to this
podcast for any length of time,you know that I can ramble
because I ramble all the time inthe shows I'm like, oh, we're
talking about blah blah, and I'msure that Amy, because we never
(34:10):
have our video on, becausewe're never like really camera
ready, but I'm sure Amy,sometimes she's sitting there
she's like, oh my gosh, here shegoes, Like it's not easy to
talk about soundbites, but thebetter that you can, the more
you can practice, the betterthat you will be.
Clearly, I still need lots ofpractice, but um, so I think.
(34:31):
So I think did we covereverything?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
We did.
I thought this was a great show.
I'm really glad we had theopportunity to do it.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, I know it's been sitting in our.
It's been sitting in our likeidea doc for a while Um, or the
the kind of the idea behind theshow.
And then chat GPT author showedup.
One of those like, oh gosh,this is going to be a problem.
We have to do this.
You have to really level upyour you know, you have to
really level up your game.
So we hope that you've enjoyedthis.
We love show ideas.
(34:58):
If you have show ideas, sendthose our way.
We love that and we want tojust give a shout out to some of
the new reviews that we'vegotten recently.
We love reviews.
Um and amy found we've alwayssaid on these podcasts, like, oh
, it's so difficult to post areview on Apple Podcasts.
Amy found a really cool thing.
She's going to put that in theshow notes, so now it should be
(35:20):
super easy to post a review onApple Podcasts.
So we would love to hear fromyou Again.
Feel free to reach out to usanytime and we'll see you next
week.
Bye-bye.
Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips
and Author Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sansevierie andAmy Cornell, and so this show
was inspired by somebody that wenow refer to in team meetings
as ChatTPT Person, and this wasan author who came to us and is
(00:32):
writing all their books on chatGPT, and if you can't hear how
horrified I am, I wish you couldsee my face right now.
I actually called Amy rightafter I got off the phone with
this author and I was just like,oh my gosh, it's happening.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yep, it was.
It was one of those things.
It's like, okay, we check thatoff the list every day.
We say, all right, we've seenit all, and then we haven't.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, and the idea behind this, behind this person
writing these books, is thatthey wanted to write a whole
bunch of nonfiction books.
So we are leaning into thenonfiction author for this.
They wanted to write a wholebunch of nonfiction books
(01:19):
through chat, like 50 books ayear, 50 books a year to make
money to quit their job.
And this is not.
This person is not going to bethe only one.
So part of what?
So, other than just beinggenerally like horrified and you
know.
And then this author told meand I'm like, wait, you're using
(01:43):
chat, tpt to write all yourbooks.
And I'm sure that I justsounded super judgmental because
I was very judgmental, and thenthis author would said, well,
but yeah, but I'm having aneditor, um, who make the, make
the book sound more human.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And.
I'm like thrilled.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
You what?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm sure that editor is thrilled.
They're like we are like thisis my life now, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So I have to take this robot speak and turn it
into something that people canunderstand.
But the reason that wementioned this is because and
this is not to be like this isnot a downer show at all,
because this is a show that wewould have done even if I hadn't
talked to this person, but hejust kind of inspired it.
Because when I asked them, Isaid okay, so you've written a
(02:28):
book on.
There was these differentspecific topics.
I said you know what's yourexpertise in?
Because this author came to uswith a few books because they
were already chatted, alreadyspit them out, right, and I said
what's your expertise in suchand such?
And there was literally noexpertise.
So it was just so.
(02:49):
The idea was just putting booksout there and hoping that
something sticks, and that's areally bad strategy.
So I suspect by book number 30,this author is going to be like
oh, this was a mistake.
However, all of these books arestill clogging the pipeline, so
we still get.
(03:10):
And then this author said to melike can, can I do media for
this?
This like absolutely not.
And actually that's exactlywhat I said.
I'm like you know, withouthesitation, I don't even need to
read the books?
Absolutely no media, and partof the reason is because the
(03:30):
media has become so much I mean,for a while, they become so
much more selective, right, Imean, this is not a new AI thing
, but in order to get yourselfinto or on television, I mean
even local right, if you'vewritten a topic about fitness or
(03:52):
business or parenting or youknow saving money, you'd better
be aces at all of those Likeyou'd better have some platform
Right, exactly, aces at all ofthose like you'd better have
some platform right, exactly,you know, um, because I mean amy
, when you, when somebody comesinto you, when somebody comes in
(04:13):
and talking about maybe settingup a call or something other
than maybe the book cover andthe amazon, their amazon retail
page, isn't that the first thingthat you look at?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, that's always.
I mean I definitely because weask for it.
So I want to check out theirwebsite If the book's already
out or if they've written a bookbefore.
I want to see what those looklike, what the branding's like,
what the reviews are like.
You know what I mean Becausebasically, I'm putting myself in
the position of somebody thatis being pitched this book.
Because basically I'm puttingmyself in the position of
somebody that is being pitchedthis book, right.
So if I'm going to go online andsee what the whole deal is
about this author, this person,and why they're writing about
(04:53):
this, I want to see what themedia is going to see or can't
find.
Essentially, like, where arethe holes?
Like, what are we working withhere?
Yeah, and that is huge, itmakes a really, and you know it
doesn't mean and for what it'sworth, for anybody listening, it
doesn't mean we won't work withthat author by any means, but
it definitely changes ourrecommendations.
(05:15):
Yeah, you know we've talkedabout that a lot.
We do not throw, put price tagson hopes and dreams and be like
oh yeah, we'll do all thethings that are going to make
you feel important.
You know that is not what we dohere, you know.
So if you don't have anestablished platform and if you
don't have an extensivebackground in something that is
actually competitive with thepeople that are getting coverage
(05:38):
by the media, then we want tohelp you with those incremental
steps that are going to get youthere at some point, if you want
to keep putting in the effort.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, and I think you know Amy to your point, I think
that sometimes the steps can beincremental.
So if you're listening to thisand you're like, okay, I'm a
nonfiction author, I don'treally have the relevant.
I have great ideas, but I don'treally have the relevant
credentials, I mean, I thinkthere are easy ways that you can
start right and you know, maybeit's in like education or
training, because that'ssomething that the media, local
(06:08):
or national, is going to lookfor.
What your professionalexperience right?
What?
What hands on experience do youhave that relates to this?
What other books have youpublished, right?
Or it doesn't even have to bebooks, it could be, you know,
white papers, or maybe you havea blog that you've been running
for years.
And the other thing is is pastmedia?
So this is a really so medialikes media, right, and a lot of
(06:32):
authors I'm actually writing abook now on local promotion,
right?
I decided I really wanted toget just away from Amazon for a
beat and get super granular onsome of these different
strategies that authors that Ireally feel, or that Amy and I
both collectively, havediscussed, really overlook, and
(06:52):
one of those is local.
So if you're in this position,where you're.
Like you know, I have this book, not written by ChatGPT, and I
have some experience, but Ireally feel like I need more of
a platform.
Doing some local media.
Finding local angles maybe evento national stories right,
(07:17):
could potentially be good, butany kind of past media
experience all adds to yourplatform.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Absolutely, and I think a lot of times and we talk
about this a lot you get tooclose to your own work.
So I think this happens fornonfiction authors a lot too.
Penny is that when we ask them,we try to pull different ideas
out of them in terms of what wecan tap into, and they're so
focused on what their book talksabout and they want to get
their book out there and theywant to talk about the book.
Focused on what their booktalks about, and they want to
get their book out there andthey want to talk about the book
(07:46):
and they sometimes forgetwithout some brainstorming time,
which is what we focus a lot ofour prep work on for our
clients is there's other ways toshow that you have potential
for media and it doesn't have tobe so laser focused on your
specific book content.
You know that's creativemessaging and having a
background in anything thatshows you have some sort of
(08:08):
authority really does matter,and this is not a time to be shy
or to be humble.
So any kind of awards orrecognitions that you've
received over the yearsprofessional industry bodies,
like you said, local there's alot of things that you can do
locally in different sectors aswell.
You know there's rotary clubs,things like that.
People forget that.
(08:29):
All these different connectionsshow that you're tuned in to
what's going on.
You know speaking engagements.
Obviously, if you've ever donespeaking, and again even the
ones conferences maybe it wasfive years ago before you even
had your book idea.
But don't leave anything on thetable.
If you're working with a teamthat is trying to pull this out
(08:50):
of you, give it to them, becauseit's amazing what you can do
with all of your professionalbackground when you know how to
get creative with how to use itand how to present it.
And then, obviously, if you'vehad a leadership role of any
sort whether maybe you're anentrepreneur locally and you
have a business but if you alsoyou know your professional
career, again it doesn't have tobe directly tied into.
(09:15):
I mean, it needs to be relatedto your book.
But I do think that sometimesauthors limit themselves because
my book is about this, but mybackground has covered a few
different things and you knowwhat I mean.
But it's like you can use allof that.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, you can, you can, you can
, definitely you can use all,you can use all of that for sure
.
And you know, honestly, I meanokay, so not to get too far off
of the topic, but we've hadauthors fiction authors who have
really interesting andfascinating backgrounds that I
(09:50):
have mentioned, like when I'vedone coaching with them after
the, you know, as we start towork with them, where I've said
because, like we've donecoaching with them after the,
you know, as we start to workwith them.
Where I've said because, likewe had an author that used to go
on all these geological digs,like all over the world, right,
and how fascinating is that?
And you know it didn't.
It did to some extent relate tothe topic that she wrote about,
(10:14):
you know, even though she wrotefiction, but it was such an
interesting facet of who thisperson was as an author that
really that I told her.
I said that really set herapart and told her to lean into
that because I thought it wouldbe really interesting.
So I think that we spend, asAmy said, we get a little too
(10:35):
close to our own topics.
We spend a lot of timeobsessing over.
This isn't an exact, exact match.
It doesn't actually really haveto be.
I mean, look, I've, you know,I've had this business for 25
years.
I talk about book marketing andpublicity, but then I also talk
about you know, okay, so then Ihave these books on Amazon and
I have these books on and atsome point the umbrella becomes,
(10:59):
you know, comes, becomes sortof like this holder of all of
these different things that youdo and that adds to your
platform and your credibility.
If you don't have a website,don't lean into social media.
I mean you should be onLinkedIn for sure, because
that's going to be a great place, especially in particular, for
nonfiction.
But it also sort of depends.
(11:20):
I mean, we've talked tononfiction authors who do you
know who would do betteractually on Instagram than they
would on LinkedIn?
So that's where you kind ofhave to make that choice.
Bragging rights, reviews andbragging rights reviews,
(11:51):
testimonials, endorsements frompeers all of this stuff should
get that's social proof.
It should get put up on yourwebsite.
Bragging rights, seriously,that's really where a lot of
authors forget oh, I was, youknow, I did such and such, or I
did such and such, and it'snowhere on, and a lot of times
it comes out in my conversationwith them, but it's nowhere on.
It's nowhere on their website.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Right, no, that's a very good point and, penny, I
know you pick up on this a lotwhen you talk to people and it's
I think it's underestimatedbecause, again, we you know
we're talking about books andbook marketing and that's kind
of where all of this builds from.
But an author's ability tocommunicate clearly and be
engaging and talk off the cuffin a conversation where
(12:28):
everything is not so, that'ssomething else to consider.
Author, and you really want tostart getting media coverage,
you really have to either bevery honest with yourself, like,
are you good at that kind ofstuff?
And if you're not, you need towork on it.
Yeah, because you can't sitthere and read a book on the
morning news.
(12:48):
You know what I mean.
They are not going to let yousit there and read from your
book.
They want to have an engagingsame thing with a podcast.
You know what I mean.
Those are conversations.
You need to be able to talkabout higher level concepts,
above and beyond what's in yourbook and how they relate into
what's going on in the world orin your industry or something
you know what I mean or for yourtopic, and you have to be
(13:11):
engaging and interesting andgive people something that they
haven't heard 15 times, and ifthat sounds like a lot of
pressure, it should.
You know, getting mediacoverage is a big fricking deal.
You don't just get it becauseyou wrote a book.
You know you really have tobring a lot to the table, and so
not only do you have to beengaging and interesting and be
(13:32):
able to talk above and beyondwhat your book is, but you know
another point that we're goingto cover that, penny, you should
take that one, but relating itback to what matters right now,
because your book is not goingto be.
What's newsworthy, it's yourability to make it make sense
for the audience that you arespeaking to and make it about
them Right.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Right, exactly, and that's where.
That's where staying dialedinto things that are going on in
your industry and even industryadjacent, right, so things that
are happening around yourindustry, and I have spent my
entire you know professionalcareer doing that around,
publishing it sometimes, and I'msure it's like super annoying,
(14:15):
but sometimes I'll send Amy likean email with some links Look
at all these new things.
I'm super excited, cause I getlike I cause I read all this
stuff and I get like superexcited.
I'm like, oh, look at all thisblah, blah, blah, but it, but it
truly, it truly all matters.
And the other thing, though,too, is that I think you will be
a much more interestinginterview if you have these
(14:35):
other bites of information andhow they relate to, potentially,
to your industry and what's.
You know what's coming down thepike In terms of, like, the
news cycle or current topic.
So every time, so I, we.
So I know that Harrow has sincegone away.
I mean it's come back a littlebit helpareporteroutcom, but
(14:57):
there is a new service calledSOS, and I don't remember what
it stands for, but the same guythat started Help a Reporter Out
started this new place, andbasically it's a place just to
get media leads, even if youdon't plan on responding to any
of them, write to me like, oh,I'm not really ready for that,
that's fine, but you shouldreally get a sense of what the
media is looking for.
(15:17):
I think that's really importantbecause you want to know how
are people like, especially ifyou have a particular expertise
in a topic.
How are people, how is themedia really looking at this?
How are they, what are theylooking for, what are they
speaking to?
And, if nothing else, it cangive you ideas for your social
(15:38):
media and for blogging topicsand things like that.
I mean, again, if you're notready for the big time yet, and
that's fine and it's okay toadmit that this will really give
you a great sense of what themedia is looking for, and
sometimes it's very surprising,right, I mean?
And if you're, if you'relooking at.
(16:04):
So one of the things that I loveto encourage authors to do is
find a local angle on a nationaltopic, because local media
loves that.
So if you have, you knowsomething.
So we had an author this wasseveral years ago and this
author wrote a book on bullyingand there was a school, another
sadly school shooting, and I,you know, told this author.
(16:28):
I said, okay, you have to get,and we weren't actually we
didn't have an active campaignwith him at the time but I said,
all right, this is a reallygood opportunity for you.
Get out, the media is going towant to talk to you.
Even just your local media talkabout you know, does bullying
have anything?
You know is bullying part ofthe symptom, like you know.
(16:48):
Talk about, turn your topicinto to the degree that you can,
into different little bookhooks.
I used to actually teach a class.
I loved teaching this class onbook hooks right.
I used to love when we oh mygosh, one of the coaching things
that I used to do with authorswas just, it was just a call on
(17:10):
doing book hooks right, and itwas really, really, really fun.
And one of these, one of thehooks that we did was and this
was funny because I was livingin New York at the time and it
was a huge snowstorm and thisperson wrote a book on just like
getting along like families whodon't get along, like how to
make peace, how to get alongwhatever, and every airplane was
(17:34):
like grounded and the trainswere grounded and all this other
stuff, and the pitch was whenairplanes and trains don't leave
on time, and this was likeright after Thanksgiving or
something.
So what we did with this authoris we took her book about how to
you know family dynamics,things like that, and we angled
(17:56):
it to a specific thing that wasgoing on in the news big news,
snowstorm, everything shut down,people stuck in airports
sleeping on the floor, all thethings right.
So that's kind of what we're,that's kind of what we're
looking at.
And also, you know, we've donea couple of shows on this too,
right, amy.
I mean on timing things toevents like financial planner or
(18:19):
doing something around tax dayor something like that.
Yes, right, but the other thing, Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Sorry, oh no, I love these examples.
Or you know if you've written abook about parenting like do
something for back to school,and you might go, but my book is
not about school necessarily.
It's about this, but it's like,yeah, but you can talk about
what goes on with back to schooland mental health and getting
your kids prepped Like.
That's where we talk aboutgetting out of your own way and
(18:48):
getting more creative with howyou can use your expertise
without sitting there and goinglike, but no, but my book
doesn't say this.
It's like, yeah, but your bookwill benefit from you getting
this coverage.
Talk about what needs to betalked about in your book will
organically benefit from that.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I know.
I'm glad you mentioned the backto school thing.
I consulted one time.
I don't think we worked.
We may have Amy has oftentimes,many times the majority of
times, a better memory than I do, many times, the majority of
times, a better memory than I doand there was an author who
wrote a cookbook on sandwicheswhich is awesome because we love
(19:24):
bread and all the things.
I may have just consulted withher.
This goes back a ways and oneof the things that I encouraged
her to do for back to school wasfun, easy, back to school kids
sandwich ideas.
And she did the same thing.
She was like but that's notreally my book.
I'm like I don't care, that'snot what we're, that's not what
(19:46):
we're doing.
We're, you know, fun, easy, goon television because you have a
whole book about sandwiches.
So it's not like you're talkingabout.
You know you're teaching peoplehow to do yoga.
When you wrote a book onsandwiches Like it's in the same
own the pond you're in, I hadsomebody in publishing industry
who has since passed away saythat for years, own the pond
that you're in.
So that's kind of what we'retalking about is become this
(20:12):
voice and she did actuallyreally well on.
You know she did really reallywell on this topic and so,
looking at um, looking at um,specific dates, looking at, you
know, back the seasons, back toschool, things like that.
But the other thing that I wantto mention before we move on to
(20:33):
the next one is, by the time ithappens, it's over, right.
So if you're thinking aboutdoing back to school, you
probably want to start now,right?
Because I'm already seeing,like the back to school stuff
and all this other.
If you wanted to, if you have atopic that you can tie into,
let's say, valentine's Day orsomething, start.
(20:55):
You know you could potentiallystart in January, early in
January, but I would actuallystart earlier than that.
Think about stores.
Think about like so anybody whoknows me knows that I like
really love Costco and they'realready putting out their
Halloween stuff, which I knowsounds like super crazy.
Like usually at least it's mostplaces usually wait until Labor
(21:18):
Day or whatever, but notanymore, right?
So that what that tells me isthat people are ready for and
especially if you've had like areally hot and bearable summer
which I know Amy I can't see her, but I'm very sure she's
nodding her head right nowPeople are starting to think
about things a lot earlier.
So when you start to see it instores, that's like your cue to
(21:40):
oh I better start to get movingon this.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
That's a really good point and, penny, you touched on
earlier you mentioned, kind ofin passing, if you're not ready
for that in terms of going afterpeople, but use it for ideas
for your blog, for social media,stay on top of what's being
covered and start getting yourvoice out there in ways that do
make sense for where you're at.
You know, and that could becontent.
(22:03):
And I wanted to, on top of that, mention it's also great to be
realistic about what you'reready for in terms of if you're
going to hire a firm, know whereyour strengths are, yeah, and
have some healthy respect forwhat.
You're going to hire a firm,know where your strengths are
and have some healthy respectfor what you still need to work
on, because it's so much easierfor us to develop a plan with a
(22:25):
client that goes, you know andwe've had them say all the time
I'm, I really don't want to dolike, I don't want to be on a TV
, I don't want to be seen youknow what I mean when they
understand their limits.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
So if you are really more comfortable in writing
format, then share that.
If you're going to be workingwith a team, share that.
Or lean into that and look forand reach out for guest
opportunities or adding contentto an industry newsletter or
something like that that reallysuits your strengths.
So that's another thing thatwhen authors come to us, it's
(23:02):
like I wrote a book.
I want all the things, I wantto be on TV, I want to be on all
the podcasts, I want all thethings.
But it's like if you don't havea background in that, if you're
not really well-versed in howthat goes, then you may not want
to jump into that right away.
And a lot of times Penny and Iwill say like that's not a good
place to start for you.
We suggest you start here, butin terms of getting more yeses
(23:24):
and having more wins andbuilding your resume, it's
really smart to be realisticabout where your skillset is and
what you're really ready forand build toward those more
challenging.
Like we talked about.
You know what you have to bringto the table.
To do an interview or to be ontelevision is huge and that is
(23:45):
not for the faint of heart andyou can't just walk up the
street and pull that off.
So be smart about how you wantto build your resume and how you
can develop those skills alongthe way.
So when you do get to the pointwhere you're ready to pitch for
those opportunities, you'regoing to blow it.
You're going to, you know, wowthem and just knock it out of
the park, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, exactly, and I think the other, the other piece
of it I'm really glad that youbrought that up, that you
brought that up, amy is thatdon't do we always encourage you
to dream big, right,realistically, like, dream big
but make a plan, right, that'skind of our, that's kind of our
motto.
But if you're not really readyfor big media, just because you
(24:25):
know, like your writing group isjust like, oh my gosh, you did
great, now you're gonna be onall the major shows, all this
other stuff, start small, right,you're going to.
I mean, we love local, but ifyou're going to get your sea
legs, you may as well.
It's a good idea to do thatlocally, right, it's a, because
(24:46):
that will teach you.
Doing local media will teachyou so much just about you know,
and how, how TV works, and howTV works, how radio works, how
fast you have to be on your feet, yeah, which is I used to do a
ton of local for myself and forsome reason, I guess, I got into
(25:06):
a loop through a press club orsomething and they were doing a
lot of stories on publishing andso there was a year where I was
just doing these all the time,and it never every single time
that I went on local, it alwaysnever ceases to amaze me how
fast you have to move.
And it also the other thing torealize too and I know we're not
(25:28):
really talking about mediatraining specifically, although
maybe there's merit to doing ashow on that there's merit to
doing a show on that Rememberthat the people who are
interviewing you have notstudied on your topic.
They don't know your topic.
They probably haven't even readyour book, right, good point,
they, they have.
No, they, they they may.
(25:48):
Even because a lot of times andI know this because we have a
neighbor I have a neighbor whois works for a local news
station and started out as aproducer and is now doing anchor
stuff and all this other stuff.
I mean they're doing like fiveor six different jobs.
They probably don't have thetime to even like how do you
(26:09):
pronounce?
Like?
The last thing they're going toask you is how do you pronounce
your name?
And that's going to be it.
That is basically what theyknow going in, right, because
there's just not a lot of time.
So you also have to be prepared.
If you come prepared withknowledge, and this doesn't mean
that you have to have hours andhours of media training.
But if you come prepared forall the things, the questions
(26:31):
and all this other and this is Iknow we started off making fun
of chat TPT author, but this isa really good place to use chat
TPT actually just to kind ofbounce some, you know, like what
kind of questions could Iexpect?
Or here's what's going on,here's what I'm angling to, and
really have it, throw out somestuff and then maybe work with
somebody just to kind of get youknow, get ready.
But the more you know aboutyour topic, the better that you
(26:54):
will show up on camera and themore authoritative authoritative
that you will seem and never,ever, ever say it's in my book.
You should just read my book,oh God, yeah, I've seen authors
do that I'm just like, ooh yeah,your career is just really your
.
Talk to my agent.
Talk to my agent.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Exactly Okay, talk to my agent.
Yeah, exactly, exactly okay.
So, penny, can we run throughthese last few bullets?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
real quickly.
I thought these like werereally insightful.
Yes, yes, and why don't youstart off?
Because I know you and I havemany discussions about bullet
number one, so you go, do youtake that one?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
right.
So we're going to start offwith what, like we pull the
short list of things that mediadoes not consider sufficient,
and that is not just us.
These are quite literally.
You know Penny and I can attestto the fact like these are
standards.
These are not Penny and Amy'sopinion.
This is quite literally howthings work.
So don't be mad at us directlyfor saying this.
This is like you said, withwhat to expect in an interview,
(27:52):
they're not going to read yourbook.
This is kind of on the heels ofthat.
This is just the reality ofwhat you're competing with.
Just having a book is notsufficient for being an expert
and being ready for mediacoverage.
So the book is helpful.
It shows that you areinterested in your topic, that
you're dedicated to your topic.
But, honestly, media prefersauthors that have really strong
(28:14):
subject matter credentials or aunique story versus the book.
You know we mentioned thispreviously.
Your book will organicallybenefit from you getting
coverage.
So when we talked previouslyabout angling what you can talk
about based on what's going onin the world or locally, whether
it's back to school, whetherit's, you know, tax season, all
(28:36):
these kinds of things, talkabout that even if it's not
directly related to your booktopic and your book will benefit
.
Plus, you're building yourresume as a thought leader.
So just having a book doesn'tcount.
You have to bring more to thetable.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Right, exactly, exactly.
And then I think that, um, theymay be asking for your opinion,
and that's If you ask me for myopinion.
Obviously, sometimes thispodcast is all about our
opinions, right, but we alsohave a lot of experience, right.
So if we throw out our opinions, they may not be right, they
(29:12):
may not be something that youagree with.
We have a lot of experience.
So anecdotal experience alone,anecdotal experience, isn't
enough.
I mean, you have to really haveyou know, right, let's throw
something out there.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, we see that a lot where people you know and we
get it when we've done a show.
I believe we've done a show onthe difference between, uh, like
self-help versus like a memoir.
I believe we've done a show onthat, where there's a really
fine thing sometimes, becauseyou experience something doesn't
necessarily make you an experton it and you have to be really
careful about what your goalsare, depending on what your
(29:47):
experiences and what yourbackground is and what that book
really should be and the kindof coverage you should be asking
for.
You know to get and then youknow calling yourself an expert
that kind of goes with it, butit really needs to be
substantiated.
You know, just because, again,you have strong opinions on
something or you've experiencedsomething that doesn't make you
(30:08):
an expert in the eyes of themedia, because they owe their
readership, listenership,viewership more than that, right
.
So you have to keep that inmind.
It is not just about whether ornot the timing's right or your
store or your pitch is good.
You know they really.
They have to report back to whothey are catering to and they
(30:32):
have to put people in front ofthem that are legitimate experts
that can add value in some way,and they're on the hook for
that.
So if you can't show them thatyou have that, they are not
going to put you on television,they are not going to interview
you, because they owe theirviewership, their followers,
more than that, right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
And this is where, if you so, as you are starting to
build your professionalcredibility, make sure to put
that you know.
Put everything on your website.
Do not.
There's no brag too small toput on your websites, because if
you're going to call, becauseyou know the media does get I
(31:15):
mean the media will, even thoughI just said that you know, like
my neighbor guy is like super,super busy the media will
research to make sure thatthey're not being duped by
somebody who says they're anexpert but really just wrote a
parenting book because they haveone kid or something.
You know what I mean.
Or six kids doesn't make yougood at it, right, right,
exactly so.
(31:36):
Press mentions media likesmedia.
That's why I said sometimesit's great to start out with
local media.
I recommend don't say no to anymedia, I mean, unless it's
obviously completely misalignedfrom what you want to talk about
, like I get that.
Display it all prominently onyour website.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Media kits really important, yes, you know it
shows dedication, you know, evenif you don't think you need it
yet, it shows you're seriousabout what you're doing.
Right, penny?
Like it's one of those thingsthat just it's a next level
element that shows that you aretaking this seriously and you
are.
You're showing up with receiptsthat you've got what it takes.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Right Showing up for receipts.
I like, I love that you saidthat.
Um, I also think that, when itcomes to social media, you don't
have to be everywhere, just beeverywhere that matters, so you
don't have to be on all of theplatforms.
Find one that you feelresonates most with your
audience and then own that Right.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Um, yeah, I mean, I love the last one because you
want to take the last one.
Well, no, because I think ofyou all the time, because
Penny's been.
You know I'm giving here like ayou know courtesy clap here,
cause she's been working ondoing more video.
It's not easy.
Hear like a you know courtesyclap here Cause she's been
working on doing more video,it's not easy, oh my gosh.
(32:58):
So work on delivering short,media-friendly soundbites,
something that somebody might beable to use in an interview on
television, whatever it is.
But honestly, challenge yourself.
Put your camera off on you know, selfie mode on your phone and
record a video with you giving atip and then watch that back
and see what it looks like.
Chances are you're going to go.
Oh, that wasn't great, I coulddo better.
You're not ready yet.
(33:18):
Work on that, even that simpleexercise of recording yourself
giving a tip, talking about one,like Penny mentioned, using
chat, gpt to like generate somequestions that could potentially
be thrown at you.
I thought that was brilliant.
Penny, answer some of thosequestions, but do it with your
video running and see what youlook like delivering those
(33:38):
answers.
And do you look ready to be onTV or did you deliver it in a
way that would be engaging andinteresting on a podcast, or
would the person start doing thefast forward button Right right
?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
exactly, and I think that the more that you can
identify those, those soundbites, those little you know,
micro conversations that you canhave, which, again, and in
doing video, is really not easy,and if you've listened to this
podcast for any length of time,you know that I can ramble
because I ramble all the time inthe shows I'm like, oh, we're
talking about blah blah, and I'msure that Amy, because we never
(34:10):
have our video on, becausewe're never like really camera
ready, but I'm sure Amy,sometimes she's sitting there
she's like, oh my gosh, here shegoes, Like it's not easy to
talk about soundbites, but thebetter that you can, the more
you can practice, the betterthat you will be.
Clearly, I still need lots ofpractice, but um, so I think.
(34:31):
So I think did we covereverything?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
We did.
I thought this was a great show.
I'm really glad we had theopportunity to do it.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, I know it's been sitting in our.
It's been sitting in our likeidea doc for a while Um, or the
the kind of the idea behind theshow.
And then chat GPT author showedup.
One of those like, oh gosh,this is going to be a problem.
We have to do this.
You have to really level upyour you know, you have to
really level up your game.
So we hope that you've enjoyedthis.
We love show ideas.
(34:58):
If you have show ideas, sendthose our way.
We love that and we want tojust give a shout out to some of
the new reviews that we'vegotten recently.
We love reviews.
Um and amy found we've alwayssaid on these podcasts, like, oh
, it's so difficult to post areview on Apple Podcasts.
Amy found a really cool thing.
She's going to put that in theshow notes, so now it should be
(35:20):
super easy to post a review onApple Podcasts.
So we would love to hear fromyou Again.
Feel free to reach out to usanytime and we'll see you next
week.
Bye-bye.
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