August 29, 2025 • 48 mins
Have you been neglecting the most powerful marketing tool at your disposal? Your email newsletter provides something social media simply cannot—a direct line to readers without algorithm interference.
Many authors resist starting newsletters because they believe they don't have enough subscribers or content ideas. This mindset creates a significant missed opportunity. Those first few subscribers who share their contact information in today's privacy-conscious world are often your most dedicated fans. They're the readers who will recommend your books, leave reviews, and engage meaningfully with your content.
We explore how to grow your email list strategically using "set it and forget it" methods, which are so easy to implement, you'll wonder why you haven't done it sooner!
In this episode, Penny and Amy share insights and examples and easy ways to grow your list. We also discuss what kind of content to put into your newsletter and we also dive into reader magnets that will help you attract new sign ups!
Whether you're just starting out or looking to revitalize an existing list, implementing these newsletter strategies creates reader connections that drive engagement and builds a loyal community around your work. The time to start is now—your future book launches will thank you.
📱Text Penny & Amy: send us your show feedback, burning marketing questions and new topic ideas!
Text the word PODCAST to (888) 402-8940 to sign up to send us messages and receive occasional announcements when we release really time-sensitive episodes. And don't forget to save our number!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips
and Author Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sandsbury and AmyCornell and we are.
We're.
It's the end of August.
I can't even believe that we'realready here.
I'm very excited for fall, love, fall favorite season, all the
things.
But we we really appreciate wegot some great feedback from
(00:21):
y'all.
We re-ran some older shows thatwe think that folks seem to
have really, really enjoyed.
We've really grown our listenerbase in the last 18 months so
we decided to re-run some oldershows that maybe missed, that
are relevant.
So we hope that you've enjoyedthat.
We may do a couple more beforethe end of the year.
(00:42):
I can't believe we're sayingthat this was something that Amy
and I well, this is a topicthat Amy and I feel strongly
about.
All the topics that we do, thisone in particular really hits
home because it's oftenneglected or forgotten or
authors will say I don't, youknow, I don't really know where
(01:04):
to start, I don't have anythingto say, and your email
newsletter is a direct line toyour reader.
It's a direct way to connectwith them anytime that you want.
So it's an extremely valuabletool.
You don't have to worry aboutthe wonky algorithm on Instagram
(01:27):
or Facebook and a lot of timeslike, I'll talk to authors and
I'll say you know, do you have anewsletter?
Well, I have the sign up but Ihaven't done anything with it,
or I have, I don't have anewsletter.
I don't have anything because Ijust send stuff out on social
media and you and I both know,amy, that we just don't.
(01:50):
I mean, I miss so many updatesfrom people that I actually
follow on social media justbecause the algorithm is can be
really iffy at times, yes, andit changes all the time.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You and I have both experienced that lately, where
it's like, wow, all the thingsthat I used to see I don't see
anymore, and all the accountsthat I know I follow.
I rarely get their contentanymore, and we do.
We're big fans of social mediafor authors, especially if you
know that your reader market isprone to hanging out on certain
(02:26):
channels and it really makessense to spend some time there
and at least have a followingand to show up there and be
available.
And it can be really pretty too, which I love.
It's very visual.
But social media moves soquickly and you have to keep in
mind that everybody, most peoplethat get on social media,
(02:46):
they're there for a milliondifferent reasons and sometimes
the reason is just to zone out.
So things move quickly, sothey're scrolling, they might
laugh at something, they maylike a post, which is awesome.
We love when people like ourposts.
So we're not knocking that byany means, but you just have to
be realistic that so much aboutsocial media is in one ear and
out the other, and so theimpressions are great.
(03:09):
It's nice to pop into people'sfeeds and they see you still.
Those are great reminders, butit's likely that the same amount
of quality engagement is notgoing to be there that you can
generate with a really well donenewsletter.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
That's very true.
And the other thing that I'venoticed too, and I don't know
you know you and I've talkedabout this, like the Instagram
algorithm.
I was looking at something theother day.
I was looking at something cameup in my feed about a dog
genealogy test.
It was not a genealogy test,that's not the word, but you
know what I'm talking about,right, and I just I popped it
just to look at it Cause I thinkI thought the dog was cute,
(03:45):
right?
I mean Cosmo's almost 17.
So I pretty much know who he isLike.
He doesn't need a genealogytest, swear to God.
The second the next time that Iopened up Instagram, I had like
five or six ads for differentdog tests.
I'm like literally notinterested in that.
So you know, the algorithm isjust so, so sketchy.
And your mailing list I mean,even if you're on your fifth
(04:08):
book and you're listening tothis and you're like, well, it's
probably too late for mymailing list, it's literally
never too late to start amailing list.
And you know, a lot of timesand I know you and I have talked
about this too sometimesauthors will say, well, I have a
mailing list, but I only have10 people and sometimes I'll
(04:31):
talk to authors and they'llliterally be embarrassed that
they only have 10 people and Ithink that everybody has to
start somewhere, right, right,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
And I think we brought this up on another show
recently.
It was kind of had I forgetwhat it was about, but it was
kind of even a light bulb moment, to reframe it for myself in
that those 10 people are thosepeople gave you their contact
information.
That is such a big deal today,when we all get a boatload of
email, we get spam texts, all ofthe things.
(04:56):
So if you have a small group ofpeople that were willing to
hand over their contactinformation and hear from you,
please don't ignore them, likethose could be your biggest
super fans forever.
That will recommend every bookyou read to their friends.
That will actually forward yournewsletters.
I mean, those people deservesome attention because they
(05:16):
showed up for you without a lotof song and dance, yeah, and
that says something.
I think that is so amazing.
Those small lists, those peopleare your people and, yes, keep
building on it.
But definitely don't sit on itand say like, well, I'll start a
newsletter once I have x numberof people or once I feel like I
(05:36):
have something interesting tosay.
Don't let those people languish, because they showed up for you
, so you should show up for themin return.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, that's absolutely true, and I think
that you know to your point thefirst few people that sign up
for your newsletter beforeyou're even really doing a lot
of newsletter promotion.
These people are really diehardfans, like they are the ones
that really want to hear fromyou and, look, I don't care if
your newsletter, if you say,well, I have 10 people, and
three of them are, you know,family members get your sea legs
(06:07):
as early as you can, right, getin the habit of sending a
newsletter.
Get in the habit of coming upwith content, which I know is
another pushback that I get fromauthors Like I just want to
write a book, why do I have tocome up with this content?
But I'm telling you right now,a newsletter will benefit you in
ways that we really that wecan't even describe.
And a few years ago there wasan author and this also sort of
(06:29):
dips into the superfan slashstreet team discussion, which
we're going to also do a show onbut she has a newsletter, has a
newsletter, I guess still andshe was traditionally published
decided to independently publishher book and within 48 hours of
the book hitting Amazon, shehad 4,000 ratings and reviews.
(06:53):
She had spent the time on hernewsletter, communicating with
fans, igniting them, excitingthem, turning them into Herstory
team super fans, etc.
And there are some real-worldbenefits to connecting directly
with your reader.
So let's talk a little bitabout how to grow your mailing
(07:17):
list, because it's one thing tosay, oh, I really want to do
this, and then it's another tobe like well, but where do I get
started?
So, first things, first, letterin the back of all your books.
Put your books to work for youPaperback, e-book.
There should be a letter toreaders in the back of the book
and the letter to reader willjust say you know, listen,
(07:38):
thanks for reading and inviteyou know, I invite you to sign
up for my newsletter list, havesome kind of a reader magnet,
which we're going to go into inthe second half of the show, but
put your book to work for youand a lot of the strategies that
Amy and I are going to talkabout in terms of how to build
(07:59):
your mailing list.
These are pretty much one anddone, like you don't necessarily
have to continually go back andreinvent the wheel, kind of
like you do with social media,where you have to come up with
like I have to come up with newtopics like every single day,
and you know that I'm runningout of ideas and blah, blah,
blah.
So, letter in the back of yourbook, put it up on your website.
(08:19):
And actually these are a littlebit in reverse order, so you
should put it up on your websitefirst.
And actually these are a littlebit in reverse order, so you
should put it up on your websitefirst.
I really recommend yournewsletter sign up to be
prominent upper right-handcorner of your website.
So when consumers look at awebsite, we go from left to
right.
The right is really the powercorner.
And pop-ups also.
(08:42):
Even though pop-ups feelannoying, pop-ups absolutely
work right.
I get so annoyed when I see apop-up, but then I'm like, oh
well, maybe I just want to like.
Then I'm not so annoyed when Isee whatever the offer is or
something.
What else, Amy, how else can we, can authors grow their
newsletter list?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, you can mention it also on Amazon.
You just have to be smart aboutit, right, right?
Hello, yeah, amazon's gettingpretty good at detecting when
people are trying to send peopleaway from Amazon and so URLs,
things like that Amazon isgetting much better at catching.
(09:19):
And then they'll say like, no,you can't do this, we're not
going to let you update stuff,but there's no reason you
shouldn't mention it.
You can mention it.
You can even mention what thereader magnet is, what your
offer is, and as long as you'renot directly saying like, leave
Amazon now and go check this out, it's probably going to make it
through.
So mention it just so peopleknow that it exists, and then
(09:42):
they'll go looking for it, whichis perfect.
Mention it just so people knowthat it exists, and then they'll
go looking for it, which isperfect.
Yes, and then obviously,anywhere on social media, we're
big fans of using a another app,like a link tree app or
something like that, where youcan add a bunch of different
content to your bio on yoursocial media profiles, and a lot
of people are using these nowand it's really great because
(10:02):
you can send people to differentlocations and you don't have to
worry about like using up yourcharacters or only sending
people to one place.
So having a separate call outfor your newsletter sign up on
one of those apps is also reallysmart, because it's a lot of
people again.
They get on social media.
They're distracted.
There's a lot going on and alot of times you can't bank on
(10:24):
people to think things throughnecessarily.
I know that sounds really awful, but if you give them something
very specific to do, you'reprobably going to have higher
engagement.
So just straight up putting anewsletter link and teasing what
they can get by signing up,you're more likely to get clicks
on that than you will justsaying like, check out my
website and find my stuff.
Like, most people don't likehaving to go looking for things,
(10:47):
they just want to get there.
Yeah, that's having.
Yeah, so having both yourwebsite link, there's nothing
wrong with that.
Do that for sure, becausethat's great traffic.
But then also have yournewsletter link separated out,
because if you catch yourselfgoing like, but they'll find it,
or once they're on my website,they'll see it, you're already
giving yourself reasons why youshould make a more direct route
(11:11):
Once you start saying if they orwhen they.
That means it's too many steps,right, right?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
right, right, right, right, exactly, um, and I think,
and like, like we said, I thinkthat once you, once you set up
these, you know your readermagnet may change.
I mean, our reader magnet haschanged over the years, right, I
think.
But once you set up a lot ofthese things, I mean it really
is sort of set it and forget it,right, so you get your link
(11:38):
tree set up, as Amy said, very,very, very, very carefully
mentioned on Amazon, very, very,very carefully mentioned on
Amazon, right, put it in youremail signature.
But it really is tremendous,like you will be so glad that
you got started with this ormaybe enhanced what you already
have Now.
The next piece of this isreally where authors get stuck.
(11:58):
It's how often should they senda newsletter?
I've talked to authors who sendtheir newsletters every week.
Godspeed to y'all, because I,literally we used to.
So this is really this part ofthe conversation would be super
triggering for Amy.
We used to send our newsletteronce a week, do you remember?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
that, yes, it was right when I.
I think it was right when Istarted.
Yeah, it was awful, it was so.
It was so stressful becauseeven though my hands weren't in
it right away, but I do I wasCCing on the emails coming up
with like the stuff, and it'slike, oh my gosh, this is a lot
of pressure.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I know, I know, and we were literally CCing
everybody on the team and Ithink Amy had just started like
okay, we need content, and Amy'slike I literally need to learn
the name of the strategies I'mtalking about.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh yeah, it was wild, but it's so much better now too
, because we'll talk about, Imean, little snippets of things
to avoid too.
But it got to be so much and itgot to be.
We've revamped it so many timesover the years because we
really pushed ourselves to liketalk about what are they looking
for.
You know we do that with showideas too.
We've mentioned it on the show.
(13:08):
We love getting show ideasbecause we could go on and on
about the stuff that we justwant to blab about, but we are
we so much would rather focus onthings that that y'all are
super interested in finding outand I think that's how our
newsletter improved over theyears too.
Is that we pulled back from wecould do this, we could do this,
we could do this, just comingup with ideas for, you know, to
(13:30):
fill it up versus what arepeople likely looking for when
they open this.
Yeah, it was just like a gamechanger, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, and I think that you know, in terms of how
often that you send yournewsletter.
I mean, look, figure outsomething that works for you.
Where you finally land up isprobably not where you started,
kind of like, with us sending anewsletter out every week.
I must have been out of my mind.
You know, if you want to startonce a week, just like I really
(13:58):
need to just get in the habit,great, but I think you know once
a month, and sometimes authorswill say, well, I really only
want to send a newsletter outwhen I have a new book coming
out, and that, to me, is amistake, because essentially,
what you have to do is you haveto keep.
So don't put yourself in asituation where you have to warm
(14:19):
up your list every time thatyou have a book coming out.
So let's say that you have, youknow you have, you release
books every once a year or, youknow, if you're more aggressive,
every six months, and there'sliterally no communication in
between those books.
So basically, you're literallyjust going out after those
people.
When you have a, when you havea book, you know when you have a
(14:41):
book release and that's not areally good, it's not a really
it's not a great way to buildrelationships, right?
So figure out something thatworks for you.
I mean, during launch times,you could definitely send the
newsletter more often, but Iwould say, land on something
that feels comfortable.
The other thing that Amymentioned which is really worth
(15:02):
talking about is identifyingreally what so you know when to
send the newsletter.
Okay, so had that conversationNow what to put in the
newsletter.
That was the second part ofkind.
Of what Amy said is you reallyhave to figure out what's going
to resonate with your reader.
So if you have a nonfictionbook and you want to do you know
(15:26):
tips on, you know differentthings I mean great, as long as
it matters to your reader.
The thing to remember about ournewsletter is that, even though
it's a sales tool, you reallydon't want to be overtly salesy,
because we get sold a lot,right?
(15:46):
I gave the example earlier onthe show.
Like you go into Instagram andall of a sudden, like I'm buying
, like there's 15 different dogwho knew that there were that
many.
Right, everybody's trying tosell you all the time.
So keep the newsletter.
Yes, the newsletter is a salestool and we're not telling you,
no, don't sell anything.
That's not the message here.
(16:07):
It's make sure that there isenough meaty content that really
matters to your readers.
So, for example, like if you'vewritten.
You know, for fiction authors,newsletters tend to be harder
because they're like I don'treally know what to tell.
What to talk about.
Well, talk about what you'reresearching.
Talk about, like, the insiderscoop on how do you name your
characters, how do you design,you know, how do you design on a
(16:30):
cover.
Talk about the odyssey that itis sometimes designing a cover,
because I think people arereally interested.
You know people are reallyinterested in you know kind of
that backstory.
Like I just finished a bookthat I'm actually going to
recommend to you, amy.
Oh, my gosh, it's so good andI'm so intrigued as to how the
author came up with this story,because it's not necessarily,
(16:55):
it's unique in the way that shetold it, and so if she put that
in her newsletter, I would openthat up first thing and read
through it, because I would findthat so compelling.
I love that, yeah, absolutely.
Oh, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
No, no, no, Go ahead.
I was going to say I love thatthinking outside the box,
because another aspect of thiswhen authors say I don't know
what to say, I think that you'reputting yourself in a box of it
all needs to be based on you,whereas, again, like Penny said
when we started this, it reallyneeds to be based on you,
whereas, again, like Penny saidwhen we started this, it really
needs to be based around whatyou think your readers will find
(17:31):
interesting and, believe it ornot, and this may creep some
people out sharing some personalthings.
Yeah, it's very humanizing.
It makes you seem more real.
You know what I mean and whatthat does.
It also encourages people tosupport you more.
Seem more real.
You know what I mean Like andwhat that does.
It also encourages people tosupport you more, like leaving
reviews when you ask them toforward your newsletter.
(17:52):
Share with a friend.
If you seem like a real personthat they can connect with,
they're going to be so much morelikely to follow through when
you do have those asks, if youare human and so.
And also stick with something.
What's great about the personaltouches, especially if it's like
a hobby that's super importantto you, or if you have a pet
that you're obsessed with.
(18:12):
What's really great about that?
Also?
Or, if you were, if you love tocook, it might have a recipe to
share every once in a while.
What that also does is itcreates something expected and
consistent that helps you, thatgives you some direction for
future newsletters as well.
I mean, you'd be surprised ormaybe you won't how excited your
(18:34):
newsletter list might be to getupdates on your dog, like their
latest adventures, like becauseeverybody loves a cute dog
moment.
You know what I mean?
Oh for sure, maybe your dog'skind of a goofball.
So the latest you know what Imean the latest nonsense that
your dog has gotten intoPictures obviously, it's a great
(18:54):
way to use pictures.
These personal touches encouragepeople to open because, again,
like you said, penny, you're notselling them anything by
sharing that, you're justinviting them into your world
and that is a very real, veryhuman experience.
That really will encouragepeople to open more of these.
(19:15):
Because if they get a sensethat you're only selling them
something, or that you're onlythere to talk about my book,
this, my book, that my book,this, my book that it's like
eventually they're going to goyeah, I get it, you know what I
mean.
Like you like to talk about mybook, this, my book, that my
book, this, my book, that it'slike they're eventually they're
going to go.
Yeah, I get it.
You know what I mean.
Like you, you'd like to talkabout the book, and there's
nothing wrong with talking aboutthe book, but you need to make
it a more well-rounded, organicexperience for them.
(19:37):
Unless you again, like Pennysaid, unless you're setting out
a special edition because youhave a release coming out in the
coming weeks, absolutely Go forthat.
We do that as well, but inbetween, remember to keep it
unexpected but predictable, ifthat makes sense.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I think that is really, and Ithink that that's part of the
reason why we say you know, ifyou already have a list, you're
listening and you're like, oh, Ireally need you know, I haven't
done anything because it's onlya small number.
It's really a great way to getto to you know, to get your feet
(20:16):
wet with this, is to try out,try out the content and see what
resonates, see what gets openrates, and let me tell you, let
me give you, let me give youanother tip too is that when?
And we're going to talk alittle bit, I think I think the
call.
We have a lot of notes onnewsletters because we have very
strong feelings about thistopic.
But in terms of a call toaction, every newsletter should
have some kind of a call toaction in it, and that is
(20:39):
designed not just to get peopleto buy something Obviously, we
talked about, you know, the lowsales piece of the newsletter
but it's also designed to getyour readers to respond to you
directly.
That not only creates a greatpersonal connection, but it's
also a very weird algorithmthing where if somebody writes
(20:59):
you from, you know somebodyresponds to your newsletter,
writes you.
You should every single time,always write them back, because
that pings the system to saythat your newsletter content is
low, spam, low, no spam, thingslike that.
So if you have peopleresponding to you, you should be
respond, you should be respond.
Don't just be like, oh, that's areally nice thing and then
(21:21):
delete it.
Respond right back Again.
Not only is it great connection, but it's really good for the,
for the new, whatever newslettersystem that you use, okay.
So, and then just in terms ofthe length, I mean, I think you
know, make it skimmable.
I, I just I don't know about, Idon't know about y'all, but I
know Amy and I, like if we getan email, I mean in particular,
(21:43):
like if you send me an emailthat's more than one paragraph,
literally glaze over like like,oh my gosh.
I mean, I think you know, one tothree short sections is really,
and this is where a lot oftimes, authors really overthink
their newsletter, like, oh, Ihave to.
You know, I have to do all thisstuff.
It has to be novel length, ithas to not novel length, but you
(22:05):
get the idea right.
Headings, bullet points, imagesIf you have a system that can
do images, images are great.
And again, make sure that youalways preview it on mobile,
because if they're reading yournewsletter, they're probably
reading it on their phone.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
You know, yeah, that's a very good point and,
yeah, I think the the length tooand I think we got stuck in
this cycle.
We were better about movingaway from it is to not force it.
You know, don't, don't forcecontent.
If you had a section in yournewsletter for something, don't
feel like you have to leave itin every single time.
(22:42):
Again, this goes back to givingpeople useful content, funny
content, whatever makes sensefor who your readers are and the
kind of books that you write.
But I think you're going to geta lot better return and better
engagement rate if you focusmore on.
Is everything I'm putting inhere heartfelt or quality or
(23:04):
interesting, or you know what Imean versus like checking it off
your list like I did thissection, I did this section.
You know what I mean.
There's nothing wrong withhaving, you know, sections or a
template to work from, to buildaround.
But again, I I would think thatme personally, I'd rather yeah,
I'd rather read a shorternewsletter that was really
(23:25):
interesting or that hadsomething to my benefit, versus
a longer newsletter Becausenobody's sitting there going.
Oh, thank goodness that thisnewsletter is six pages long,
otherwise I would have beendisappointed.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I know, I know it.
Yeah, I completely agree tothat.
And one of the things that westarted doing too in our
newsletter which I'm verycertain was Amy's idea, because
she has all the great ideas isthat we now link out to other
content.
So we link to blog posts, asopposed to we used to.
Like I said, we used to havelong newsletters and it was very
(23:59):
weird and a lot of work, butnow we link out to blog posts
that may be of interest to oursubscribers, right, so they can
have a newsletter.
The content's short.
If they want to dive deeper,here's some links, and that's
something that also absolutelyworks too.
(24:23):
Works too.
So then, in terms of so a verysimple call to action and I
covered this also in my bookFrom Book to Bestseller is do
some kind of a giveaway, right,do some kind of a giveaway in
your newsletter.
So, and again, the call toaction is yes, you definitely
(24:45):
want to mention if you have apromo coming up, a new book, et
cetera.
So your book should definitelybe mentioned, but have some kind
of a giveaway and mention it.
So, in your newsletter intro,mention like okay, we pulled
another raffle, even if it'slike a $5, you know Amazon gift
(25:06):
card, you can rent a movie.
I don't know if you can rent amovie for $5.
Almost An older movie, maybe,right?
Yeah, I'm like I saw a movierental for like I think it was
like $21.
I'm like are you serious, right?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I know I guess still cheaper than going to the
theater, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, going to the theater, I suppose.
Yeah, it seemed really maybe Imisread that it's very possible,
but anyway.
And here is something, and I'verecommended this to a lot of
authors so doing a giveaway pernewsletter, right, encourages
them to open up the newsletter.
Okay.
So in the intro mentioned okay,we have, we pulled another, you
(25:42):
know, reader giveaway in thisnewsletter.
Yay, super excited.
Make them scroll all the way tothe bottom to see if they've
won.
So never announce the winner inthe intro, always announce it at
the bottom.
So, last thing, that beforethey leave the newsletter,
there's the winner.
Now the winner has to contactyou within the first, like I
(26:05):
would say, five to seven daysafter you know.
So within seven days, if theyhaven't contacted you, you don't
reach out to them and say, hey,you won.
They have to take the action tocontact you and let you know
and then they won.
Otherwise the prize goes backinto the prize pot and then
maybe next month, if you'redoing a $5 gift card, maybe next
(26:27):
month it's $10 or it's $20 orwhatever, or you could just
repeat the $5 gift card everymonth.
I've known people to do this anddo so very successfully because
A it's.
You know, there's nothing likea little freebie to get somebody
, like incentivize somebody toopen up a newsletter, but, and a
freebie where they don't haveto actually buy something to get
(26:47):
like, no, you don't have to buythis, you know, $200 handbag to
get your 5% discount orsomething.
Right, right, yes, you know, um, and then you know.
And then getting them to scrollthrough the newsletter does
encourage unless they're justrapid scrolling to see if they
won, it encourages them to gothrough the content.
(27:07):
I mean, what do you, Amy, whatdo you think?
Yeah, I mean, I think.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And getting the like you said, call to action, even
if it's subtle and we mentionedI mean you mentioned earlier,
penny, about talking about howyou name your characters, how
you come up with things likethat.
I mean you can get so creativemight have a bit of a leg up in
(27:38):
terms of the creativity withcall to actions, where you may
not think that you have a lot tosay, unlike where nonfiction,
in theory, that author has a lotto say.
I mean their goal is to be athought leader, to be an
influencer, to be you know whatI mean.
Whatever it is that they'respecializing in, it's sharing
their knowledge so they can tapinto all sorts of stuff for
their newsletter.
But I think some of the call toaction stuff is where fiction
(28:00):
authors can really have a lot offun.
You know you can have peopleweigh in on choices coming up in
your book or in your writing orhave them respond to different
cover ideas and things like that.
Like, just think of things thatyou normally would potentially
ask a friend or a colleague orin your writer group and start
(28:22):
including your fans in that aswell and see what kind of
responses you get.
And to your point, penny, ifanybody responds, definitely
respond back, include them.
And then it's amazing how, whenyou start getting these
conversations going, that canturn into content for a future
newsletter as well.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, yeah, it can absolutely get, yeah, it can
absolutely do that.
And then, I think you know,start to.
So one of the other things thatyou mentioned to one of our
authors that we've worked withis, you know, encourage people
to follow you on, for example,Goodreads.
(28:59):
We just did a.
We literally just did aGoodreads show.
And in fact, it was probablylast week's show that we did the
new Goodreads.
Some of the Goodreads changes,so follow me on Goodreads,
follow me on Amazon, follow meon Instagram for you know daily
writing updates or whatever.
Forward this newsletter to afriend.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
In the follow back.
Sorry, penny, now that you'resaying follow me, like,
encourage them, like tell themyou'll follow them back if they
respond and share theirGoodreads account, you know what
I mean.
Like there's no reason not toagain everything that you put
out there.
Like there's no reason not toagain everything that you put
out there.
Try to turn it into a two-wayconversation in some way shape
or form.
You know, because, as you weresaying that, sorry, I was like
(29:45):
oh my gosh, yes, because a lotof people would love to be
followed by some of theirfavorite authors too.
Oh my gosh, yes.
So, as you're asking people tofollow, you say you know and
respond back.
I'd love to follow you onGoodreads.
I'd love to see what you'rereading, you know.
Respond back and let me knowwhat you know, your username or
whatever.
Yeah, I'll start following youbecause people get excited when
(30:07):
they feel like they're a part ofwhat's happening.
You know people love to sharetheir opinions and they love to
be involved, you know.
So, as much as you can makeeverything a two-way
conversation, a two-way streetyou know what I mean Do it Like
brainstorm the hell out of thoseopportunities.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I completely agree with that.
And now, in terms of, you know,involving chat GPT in this,
there are.
So this is a really really,really great way to creatively
use chat.
Amy and I just refer to chatGPT as chat, just because chat
GPT is kind of a mouthful, so,um, this is a really great way
(30:49):
to involve chat in this process.
So one of the things that Iwould recommend, if you're going
to so what ideally what youwould use chat for, is kind of
your second brain, so tobrainstorm content ideas, put
the you know, put the draft ofthe newsletter, for example, in
chat and maybe have it tightenit up or say it in a different
(31:10):
way.
I do this a lot actually for,even for, like, social media
posts and stuff, becausesometimes I just get for me
anyway, like I get caught up onthe verbiage, like sometimes I'm
a little bit too verbose as itwere, and I will put it into
chat and say you know, could youjust tighten this up and
shorten it, or maybe say it adifferent way?
(31:30):
So, if you're going to use so,here's a little tip.
If you're going to use chat,the best way to use chat is with
the strongest prompt.
So be clear on what you want itto do.
Don't just say, hey, I'm goingto run a newsletter, give me
some ideas, because chat willjust spit out like some rando
ideas that Generic stuff Right,the 80% of them probably don't
even apply to you, right, andthat make people hate chat or
(31:52):
the idea of it.
Right, exactly None of theseideas are going to work for me.
Well, but your prompt wasreally ambiguous.
So put in links, like, put inlinks to your website, to your
author page on Amazon, to youror to your individual book pages
.
If you want really give chat agood platform to work from,
(32:25):
right, a lot of informationabout you, and then ask it for.
So just give me like 10 contentideas, right?
So I just did this actually forand I'm just going to be like
full disclosure here I just didthis for social media.
I was like, oh you know, Ireally want some some, some fall
themed social media posts.
So I threw in chat in, you know, I threw all of our links to
all of our social media accounts, all sort of succinct, so one
(32:48):
week we're not talking about onething, in the next, like all of
it should be slanted towardsfall and then ramping up the
holiday shopping and things likethat.
And so that's really where themore concise that you can get in
(33:11):
your prompt in your directive,the better that chat, you know,
the better example, the betterfeedback that you'll get from
chat in terms of examples andthings like that.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
So Absolutely, and I love the idea of using it to
revise the phrasing and thewording because you can
specifically especially, likePenny said, if you've given chat
, you know your website, yoursocial handle and things like
that, so they can get a feel forwho you are and your tone and
and things like that they can.
They can keep things within theboundaries that make sense for
(33:44):
your current tone and how youwrite and how you communicate,
but they can.
It's a great way to make surethat what you want to express
makes sense to somebody who isnot inside your brain.
Let's be honest, Right, Becausea lot of times, the things that
we write make sense to usbecause we are firsthand like no
(34:07):
, we know what we want to say,and we've mentioned this before
on shows, we're not saying it'sgoing to be ready to copy and
paste and send, but it's worthgetting different variations and
you can ask for that Like I dothat too, Penny where it's like
give me three different versionsof this.
Here's what I'm looking for.
Again, the prompts matter, butwhat's really great is that you
(34:28):
just get a different.
You get an idea of how elsesomething could be said and you
might be really impressed withthe changes and how it does
still sound like you, so it'sstill very much what you want to
say, but it's worded in a waythat is going to resonate
quicker, easier, make more sensefor the person on the receiving
(34:48):
end, and I think there's a lotof value in that.
Especially when it comes to anewsletter and you were quite
literally asking people to stopwhat they're doing and spending
a few minutes of their dayimmersed in your content, the
least you can do is put in theeffort to ensure that it's an
enjoyable experience in terms ofunderstanding what you're
trying to communicate in thingslike that.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, exactly, and you know the other.
I mean not to belabor the howcreative chat can be, but email
subject lines are reallyimportant.
So we open emails.
I mean, unless it's an emailfrom somebody that we know or
somebody, a work project,whatever, generally speaking,
the email subject line drivesthe open rate.
(35:31):
So I love throwing some ideasinto chat because I do I very
much and I know like I writelike writing, I love writing,
but I do sometimes get into myown way by being too wordy or
not saying the right way.
So that's a really good, youknow.
So it's another.
So email subject lines fornewsletters another great way to
(35:51):
brainstorm.
So reader magnet Now this isthe thing that's going to be in
your to get people to sign upfor your newsletter.
So you know, a sign-up magnetwhich I think a lot of like.
We see this around.
We're like, oh, get 10% offthis if you sign up and whatever
(36:12):
.
The reader magnet obviously,when you're buying clothes or
you're buying shoes or whatever,the discount is the magnet
right, the discount is awesome,hopefully it's awesome, but your
reader magnet has to besomething that really relates to
(36:32):
your reader.
And this is another area, justreally frankly, that we, amy and
I really struggled with, Ithink, when you first started we
had that.
We had a series of prompts thatwould go out to authors over a
period of time.
It was like it was an emaildrip campaign is what it was and
(36:53):
that was the reader magnet.
I don't dislike those, but Imean they were a lot of work.
They were.
They were a lot of work,especially if you are in and
this is particular, this is veryparticular to nonfiction
authors If you're in a, ifyou're in an industry that
(37:14):
changes frequently, like ours,does they become a little bit of
a nightmare?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Right, keeping them current and updated, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah, Keeping them current and updated, right.
So a reader magnet is somethingthat you are going to give your
sign, that people are going toget for signing up.
Do not overthink this, right?
This is another area whereauthors much like the content of
the newsletter and how often tosend it.
Authors oftentimes reallyoverthink this.
So it should fall in line withyour author brand, so it should
(37:45):
be something that's on brand.
So, for example, if you wroteand this is a real example, I
swear to you, I talked to anauthor who wrote a cozy mystery.
It was either a mystery orsomething under the mystery.
It was either a cozy mystery orjust a straight mystery and
this author gave away copies ofMoby Dick as their reader magnet
(38:06):
, which has literally nothing todo with the genre that they
write in, but it's free, likeit's in public domain, and so
don't use public domain.
And this was for a long timeand this use public domain and
this was for a long time andthis goes back about 15 years,
but for a long time people wereusing public domain stuff as
reader magnets and I'm like,well, that's weird, Like, like,
(38:29):
I mean like could you?
imagine if we did that on ourwebsite.
Hey, so welcome to authormarketing experts.
Here's a copy of Moby Dick Likereally Right, Exactly.
It's like yeah, right, so it hasto.
Sorry, I just think that's sofunny.
It has to relate to your, so ithas to be something that is
your author brand.
So quality obviously counts.
(38:51):
Not that Moby Dick is not ahigh quality book Like I get it.
It's not related.
It really dings yourcredibility.
It's not related to your topic.
And a reader magnet I mean, amy, I'm not putting you on the
spot, but what are some readermagnets that you've seen that
you think are really cool?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Like I said, this is another one of those areas where
there's pros and cons, Isuppose, to being fiction and
nonfiction when it comes tocoming up with these.
Because, again, nonfiction, youkind of have built in reader
magnets because people areseeking out what you have to say
, because they're looking to fixa problem, they're looking to
(39:34):
get better at something.
They're looking you know what Imean.
The list goes on for what otherkind of added benefits that you
can tack on to your book'stopic?
But for fiction, you also havesome great opportunities.
And another thing too is that Iwouldn't try not to go too
broad, don't give awayeverything with your reader
(39:54):
magnet, because I think that'sanother thing too that it kind
of stunts your growth in termsof ways you can evolve your
reader magnet, some of yourcontent, ideas, things like that
.
So, for example, I lovecharacter deep dives for fiction
because a lot of times if I'vereally enjoyed a fiction book,
(40:14):
there's so much more I want toknow about that character and I
I obsess over wanting to seepictures of what, of who, what
the author thought the characterlooks like.
I realize some people hate thatbecause they have something in
their head, but I love to seewhat a character potentially
looks like.
I just actually searched for itfor a client that we work with,
(40:35):
cause.
I was reading her books and I'mlike I wonder if she's posted
character pictures on her socialand totally stalked her social
until I found it Right.
Yes, and it was amazing.
So I think those can be reallycool because it's it's it draws
people into your world more.
You know.
So short stories, characterprofiles again, don't give it a,
don't give away all of it.
(40:56):
So it's like I actuallywouldn't suggest that you do
like all of your main charactersin one and provide all of that
for free for signing up for yournewsletter.
Maybe stick to like the top twoor three characters and tell
people there's more to come inthe future.
So keep like, keep opening thenewsletter.
And then you've kind of pulledthem further into and given them
(41:17):
reasons to stay current witheverything that you're sending
out.
But I mean, oh, there's so manydifferent ways.
But I do think if you arefiction, the additional you know
, take people to another levelin the world that you've created
.
And then, penny, you mentionedresearch earlier.
I think that's also a reallycool reader magnet as well, that
(41:41):
if you've written somethingthat required a lot of research
and you can produce maybe ashort story or something like
that that kind of dives into theresearch process.
I think that is also such acool way to again give people
different layers of how theyengage with you and what they
know about the world you'recreating.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I think that there is again.
You're going to want toexperiment with these because,
like we did, you know and I meanquizzes, checklist worksheets
for nonfiction you know, what'sso funny is people love quizzes.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
I, I am guilty of that Like I love.
Like, what kind of cocktail areyou?
I mean?
Right, it's so fun.
Quizzes are so fun and, again,they don't have to be really
complex.
I've never used chat to do aquiz.
I'm sure you can, but quizzesare really once.
(42:47):
I got over the hurdle of tryingto make them way too complex.
We've done quizzes for ourstuff and people just really
people, people just really lovethem, People just really love
them.
So reader magnets reallyimportant, great way to get
people to sign up.
You get their newsletter, youget their email address and they
(43:12):
get in turn something reallycool and you can brainstorm some
reader magnet ideas.
Like, if you already havesomething set up in chat for,
you know, for your newsletter,you can also pop in there and
just see what it says in termsof reader magnet ideas.
Again, sometimes chatovershoots things a little bit.
We've seen that too.
But you know, if you ask for 10reader magnet ideas, you might
(43:35):
find one or two that areactually really you know that
are really doable.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
And don't forget your cutting room floor stuff.
Oh yeah, you know that'ssomething else that is that fans
tend to love.
It's like, well, I actually wasgoing to end this chapter this
way and I'm going to shoot.
You know what I mean.
Things like that that could bereally fun.
Alternate endings you knowchapters that you cut out, ways
(44:01):
that, like, maybe a characterwent in an entirely different
direction.
You know what I mean.
So, really have fun with thestuff that you also consider how
you can use things that didn'tend up making it into the book
as well.
Those are great ideas for bothnewsletter content and reader
magnets.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Well, and the thing about it is, though, too, is
that when you have a book thatis, you know that is really
popular those cutting room floorthings are readers really eat
those up.
I mean, think about I'm goingto really date myself here, but
anybody who's listeningremembers when DVDs and and like
(44:37):
videotapes right, you had thedirector's cut, and I'm a huge
Star Wars fan, don't you know?
I was at Blockbuster Videorenting the director's cut of
Star Wars.
I want to see all the stuffthat didn't make it into the
movie, and that's something thatfans just really, really want.
In fact, and I've read a bookrecently where they finally
(44:59):
caught like it was a thriller,and they finally caught the
crazy person, and like I want tosee this.
This is going to make me soundreally awful.
I would love it if the authorwould write a bonus chapter that
I have access to that tells mewhat an awful life that this
person now has, now that theywere caught.
(45:20):
That's funny, right, because Iwas so engrossed in this book
and in the outcome.
So I think that, as you're youknow, you're obviously reader
magnet idea.
Reader magnets are going toevolve, as you have, you know,
different as different bookscome out and things like that.
So, um, so, yes.
So the moral of the story,listeners, is don't overthink it
(45:42):
.
Just get started with yournewsletter.
I promise you your newsletterand across the board this is an.
Every single author can do thisyour newsletter is going to
repay you in ways that you can'teven imagine.
It is a great, great additionto your brand and to all of the
marketing stuff that you do.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
And now we've given you permission to do it, even if
there's only 10 people on yourlist.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah, that's exactly what you wanted to hear, right,
yeah, and I'll tell yousomething.
If you have a newsletter, ifyou're listening and you have a
newsletter, send us your lastnewsletter.
I want to see it.
Send it to us.
Our contact details are in theshow notes when you start the
newsletter.
Just make sure that you areconsistent with it.
(46:26):
So I think starting and stoppingsomething is never a good idea.
Okay, plan out your nextseveral issues so that you don't
have to, like, think about itevery single month.
You're like I have to.
You know, when we first used todo our newsletter, I remember
just really dreading it like, ohmy gosh, okay, and of course we
were doing it every week, so Iwas really dreading it.
No-transcript, we are, andhopefully this will fall in line
(47:13):
with the queue.
We are also going to do a showon street teams and super fans,
which hopefully will be nextweek.
Sometimes our scheduling gets alittle bit misaligned, but
hopefully it will be next weekbecause it is a follow-on show
to this.
So if it's not, you know, ifyou don't see it in the queue
for next week, next Friday, besure to look for it, because
(47:33):
we're definitely going to dogoing to do a show on street
teams and super fans, which iskind of the next level from.
Okay, you have your newsletter,now let's take it up another
level.
Thank you so much for listeningto the show.
We appreciate all your showideas and your show feedback.
We love that and your reviews,thank you, thank you.
Thank you everybody for some ofthe new reviews we've gotten,
thanks to Amy, who put in easyways to review on Apple Podcasts
(48:00):
, which has helped ustremendously.
So thank you so much for tuningin and we'll see you next time.
Bye-bye.
Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips
and Author Success Podcast.
This is Penny Sandsbury and AmyCornell and we are.
We're.
It's the end of August.
I can't even believe that we'realready here.
I'm very excited for fall, love, fall favorite season, all the
things.
But we we really appreciate wegot some great feedback from
(00:21):
y'all.
We re-ran some older shows thatwe think that folks seem to
have really, really enjoyed.
We've really grown our listenerbase in the last 18 months so
we decided to re-run some oldershows that maybe missed, that
are relevant.
So we hope that you've enjoyedthat.
We may do a couple more beforethe end of the year.
(00:42):
I can't believe we're sayingthat this was something that Amy
and I well, this is a topicthat Amy and I feel strongly
about.
All the topics that we do, thisone in particular really hits
home because it's oftenneglected or forgotten or
authors will say I don't, youknow, I don't really know where
(01:04):
to start, I don't have anythingto say, and your email
newsletter is a direct line toyour reader.
It's a direct way to connectwith them anytime that you want.
So it's an extremely valuabletool.
You don't have to worry aboutthe wonky algorithm on Instagram
(01:27):
or Facebook and a lot of timeslike, I'll talk to authors and
I'll say you know, do you have anewsletter?
Well, I have the sign up but Ihaven't done anything with it,
or I have, I don't have anewsletter.
I don't have anything because Ijust send stuff out on social
media and you and I both know,amy, that we just don't.
(01:50):
I mean, I miss so many updatesfrom people that I actually
follow on social media justbecause the algorithm is can be
really iffy at times, yes, andit changes all the time.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You and I have both experienced that lately, where
it's like, wow, all the thingsthat I used to see I don't see
anymore, and all the accountsthat I know I follow.
I rarely get their contentanymore, and we do.
We're big fans of social mediafor authors, especially if you
know that your reader market isprone to hanging out on certain
(02:26):
channels and it really makessense to spend some time there
and at least have a followingand to show up there and be
available.
And it can be really pretty too, which I love.
It's very visual.
But social media moves soquickly and you have to keep in
mind that everybody, most peoplethat get on social media,
(02:46):
they're there for a milliondifferent reasons and sometimes
the reason is just to zone out.
So things move quickly, sothey're scrolling, they might
laugh at something, they maylike a post, which is awesome.
We love when people like ourposts.
So we're not knocking that byany means, but you just have to
be realistic that so much aboutsocial media is in one ear and
out the other, and so theimpressions are great.
(03:09):
It's nice to pop into people'sfeeds and they see you still.
Those are great reminders, butit's likely that the same amount
of quality engagement is notgoing to be there that you can
generate with a really well donenewsletter.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
That's very true.
And the other thing that I'venoticed too, and I don't know
you know you and I've talkedabout this, like the Instagram
algorithm.
I was looking at something theother day.
I was looking at something cameup in my feed about a dog
genealogy test.
It was not a genealogy test,that's not the word, but you
know what I'm talking about,right, and I just I popped it
just to look at it Cause I thinkI thought the dog was cute,
(03:45):
right?
I mean Cosmo's almost 17.
So I pretty much know who he isLike.
He doesn't need a genealogytest, swear to God.
The second the next time that Iopened up Instagram, I had like
five or six ads for differentdog tests.
I'm like literally notinterested in that.
So you know, the algorithm isjust so, so sketchy.
And your mailing list I mean,even if you're on your fifth
(04:08):
book and you're listening tothis and you're like, well, it's
probably too late for mymailing list, it's literally
never too late to start amailing list.
And you know, a lot of timesand I know you and I have talked
about this too sometimesauthors will say, well, I have a
mailing list, but I only have10 people and sometimes I'll
(04:31):
talk to authors and they'llliterally be embarrassed that
they only have 10 people and Ithink that everybody has to
start somewhere, right, right,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
And I think we brought this up on another show
recently.
It was kind of had I forgetwhat it was about, but it was
kind of even a light bulb moment, to reframe it for myself in
that those 10 people are thosepeople gave you their contact
information.
That is such a big deal today,when we all get a boatload of
email, we get spam texts, all ofthe things.
(04:56):
So if you have a small group ofpeople that were willing to
hand over their contactinformation and hear from you,
please don't ignore them, likethose could be your biggest
super fans forever.
That will recommend every bookyou read to their friends.
That will actually forward yournewsletters.
I mean, those people deservesome attention because they
(05:16):
showed up for you without a lotof song and dance, yeah, and
that says something.
I think that is so amazing.
Those small lists, those peopleare your people and, yes, keep
building on it.
But definitely don't sit on itand say like, well, I'll start a
newsletter once I have x numberof people or once I feel like I
(05:36):
have something interesting tosay.
Don't let those people languish, because they showed up for you
, so you should show up for themin return.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, that's absolutely true, and I think
that you know to your point thefirst few people that sign up
for your newsletter beforeyou're even really doing a lot
of newsletter promotion.
These people are really diehardfans, like they are the ones
that really want to hear fromyou and, look, I don't care if
your newsletter, if you say,well, I have 10 people, and
three of them are, you know,family members get your sea legs
(06:07):
as early as you can, right, getin the habit of sending a
newsletter.
Get in the habit of coming upwith content, which I know is
another pushback that I get fromauthors Like I just want to
write a book, why do I have tocome up with this content?
But I'm telling you right now,a newsletter will benefit you in
ways that we really that wecan't even describe.
And a few years ago there wasan author and this also sort of
(06:29):
dips into the superfan slashstreet team discussion, which
we're going to also do a show onbut she has a newsletter, has a
newsletter, I guess still andshe was traditionally published
decided to independently publishher book and within 48 hours of
the book hitting Amazon, shehad 4,000 ratings and reviews.
(06:53):
She had spent the time on hernewsletter, communicating with
fans, igniting them, excitingthem, turning them into Herstory
team super fans, etc.
And there are some real-worldbenefits to connecting directly
with your reader.
So let's talk a little bitabout how to grow your mailing
(07:17):
list, because it's one thing tosay, oh, I really want to do
this, and then it's another tobe like well, but where do I get
started?
So, first things, first, letterin the back of all your books.
Put your books to work for youPaperback, e-book.
There should be a letter toreaders in the back of the book
and the letter to reader willjust say you know, listen,
(07:38):
thanks for reading and inviteyou know, I invite you to sign
up for my newsletter list, havesome kind of a reader magnet,
which we're going to go into inthe second half of the show, but
put your book to work for youand a lot of the strategies that
Amy and I are going to talkabout in terms of how to build
(07:59):
your mailing list.
These are pretty much one anddone, like you don't necessarily
have to continually go back andreinvent the wheel, kind of
like you do with social media,where you have to come up with
like I have to come up with newtopics like every single day,
and you know that I'm runningout of ideas and blah, blah,
blah.
So, letter in the back of yourbook, put it up on your website.
(08:19):
And actually these are a littlebit in reverse order, so you
should put it up on your websitefirst.
And actually these are a littlebit in reverse order, so you
should put it up on your websitefirst.
I really recommend yournewsletter sign up to be
prominent upper right-handcorner of your website.
So when consumers look at awebsite, we go from left to
right.
The right is really the powercorner.
And pop-ups also.
(08:42):
Even though pop-ups feelannoying, pop-ups absolutely
work right.
I get so annoyed when I see apop-up, but then I'm like, oh
well, maybe I just want to like.
Then I'm not so annoyed when Isee whatever the offer is or
something.
What else, Amy, how else can we, can authors grow their
newsletter list?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, you can mention it also on Amazon.
You just have to be smart aboutit, right, right?
Hello, yeah, amazon's gettingpretty good at detecting when
people are trying to send peopleaway from Amazon and so URLs,
things like that Amazon isgetting much better at catching.
(09:19):
And then they'll say like, no,you can't do this, we're not
going to let you update stuff,but there's no reason you
shouldn't mention it.
You can mention it.
You can even mention what thereader magnet is, what your
offer is, and as long as you'renot directly saying like, leave
Amazon now and go check this out, it's probably going to make it
through.
So mention it just so peopleknow that it exists, and then
(09:42):
they'll go looking for it, whichis perfect.
Mention it just so people knowthat it exists, and then they'll
go looking for it, which isperfect.
Yes, and then obviously,anywhere on social media, we're
big fans of using a another app,like a link tree app or
something like that, where youcan add a bunch of different
content to your bio on yoursocial media profiles, and a lot
of people are using these nowand it's really great because
(10:02):
you can send people to differentlocations and you don't have to
worry about like using up yourcharacters or only sending
people to one place.
So having a separate call outfor your newsletter sign up on
one of those apps is also reallysmart, because it's a lot of
people again.
They get on social media.
They're distracted.
There's a lot going on and alot of times you can't bank on
(10:24):
people to think things throughnecessarily.
I know that sounds really awful, but if you give them something
very specific to do, you'reprobably going to have higher
engagement.
So just straight up putting anewsletter link and teasing what
they can get by signing up,you're more likely to get clicks
on that than you will justsaying like, check out my
website and find my stuff.
Like, most people don't likehaving to go looking for things,
(10:47):
they just want to get there.
Yeah, that's having.
Yeah, so having both yourwebsite link, there's nothing
wrong with that.
Do that for sure, becausethat's great traffic.
But then also have yournewsletter link separated out,
because if you catch yourselfgoing like, but they'll find it,
or once they're on my website,they'll see it, you're already
giving yourself reasons why youshould make a more direct route
(11:11):
Once you start saying if they orwhen they.
That means it's too many steps,right, right?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
right, right, right, right, exactly, um, and I think,
and like, like we said, I thinkthat once you, once you set up
these, you know your readermagnet may change.
I mean, our reader magnet haschanged over the years, right, I
think.
But once you set up a lot ofthese things, I mean it really
is sort of set it and forget it,right, so you get your link
(11:38):
tree set up, as Amy said, very,very, very, very carefully
mentioned on Amazon, very, very,very carefully mentioned on
Amazon, right, put it in youremail signature.
But it really is tremendous,like you will be so glad that
you got started with this ormaybe enhanced what you already
have Now.
The next piece of this isreally where authors get stuck.
(11:58):
It's how often should they senda newsletter?
I've talked to authors who sendtheir newsletters every week.
Godspeed to y'all, because I,literally we used to.
So this is really this part ofthe conversation would be super
triggering for Amy.
We used to send our newsletteronce a week, do you remember?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
that, yes, it was right when I.
I think it was right when Istarted.
Yeah, it was awful, it was so.
It was so stressful becauseeven though my hands weren't in
it right away, but I do I wasCCing on the emails coming up
with like the stuff, and it'slike, oh my gosh, this is a lot
of pressure.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I know, I know, and we were literally CCing
everybody on the team and Ithink Amy had just started like
okay, we need content, and Amy'slike I literally need to learn
the name of the strategies I'mtalking about.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh yeah, it was wild, but it's so much better now too
, because we'll talk about, Imean, little snippets of things
to avoid too.
But it got to be so much and itgot to be.
We've revamped it so many timesover the years because we
really pushed ourselves to liketalk about what are they looking
for.
You know we do that with showideas too.
We've mentioned it on the show.
(13:08):
We love getting show ideasbecause we could go on and on
about the stuff that we justwant to blab about, but we are
we so much would rather focus onthings that that y'all are
super interested in finding outand I think that's how our
newsletter improved over theyears too.
Is that we pulled back from wecould do this, we could do this,
we could do this, just comingup with ideas for, you know, to
(13:30):
fill it up versus what arepeople likely looking for when
they open this.
Yeah, it was just like a gamechanger, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, and I think that you know, in terms of how
often that you send yournewsletter.
I mean, look, figure outsomething that works for you.
Where you finally land up isprobably not where you started,
kind of like, with us sending anewsletter out every week.
I must have been out of my mind.
You know, if you want to startonce a week, just like I really
(13:58):
need to just get in the habit,great, but I think you know once
a month, and sometimes authorswill say, well, I really only
want to send a newsletter outwhen I have a new book coming
out, and that, to me, is amistake, because essentially,
what you have to do is you haveto keep.
So don't put yourself in asituation where you have to warm
(14:19):
up your list every time thatyou have a book coming out.
So let's say that you have, youknow you have, you release
books every once a year or, youknow, if you're more aggressive,
every six months, and there'sliterally no communication in
between those books.
So basically, you're literallyjust going out after those
people.
When you have a, when you havea book, you know when you have a
(14:41):
book release and that's not areally good, it's not a really
it's not a great way to buildrelationships, right?
So figure out something thatworks for you.
I mean, during launch times,you could definitely send the
newsletter more often, but Iwould say, land on something
that feels comfortable.
The other thing that Amymentioned which is really worth
(15:02):
talking about is identifyingreally what so you know when to
send the newsletter.
Okay, so had that conversationNow what to put in the
newsletter.
That was the second part ofkind.
Of what Amy said is you reallyhave to figure out what's going
to resonate with your reader.
So if you have a nonfictionbook and you want to do you know
(15:26):
tips on, you know differentthings I mean great, as long as
it matters to your reader.
The thing to remember about ournewsletter is that, even though
it's a sales tool, you reallydon't want to be overtly salesy,
because we get sold a lot,right?
(15:46):
I gave the example earlier onthe show.
Like you go into Instagram andall of a sudden, like I'm buying
, like there's 15 different dogwho knew that there were that
many.
Right, everybody's trying tosell you all the time.
So keep the newsletter.
Yes, the newsletter is a salestool and we're not telling you,
no, don't sell anything.
That's not the message here.
(16:07):
It's make sure that there isenough meaty content that really
matters to your readers.
So, for example, like if you'vewritten.
You know, for fiction authors,newsletters tend to be harder
because they're like I don'treally know what to tell.
What to talk about.
Well, talk about what you'reresearching.
Talk about, like, the insiderscoop on how do you name your
characters, how do you design,you know, how do you design on a
(16:30):
cover.
Talk about the odyssey that itis sometimes designing a cover,
because I think people arereally interested.
You know people are reallyinterested in you know kind of
that backstory.
Like I just finished a bookthat I'm actually going to
recommend to you, amy.
Oh, my gosh, it's so good andI'm so intrigued as to how the
author came up with this story,because it's not necessarily,
(16:55):
it's unique in the way that shetold it, and so if she put that
in her newsletter, I would openthat up first thing and read
through it, because I would findthat so compelling.
I love that, yeah, absolutely.
Oh, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
No, no, no, Go ahead.
I was going to say I love thatthinking outside the box,
because another aspect of thiswhen authors say I don't know
what to say, I think that you'reputting yourself in a box of it
all needs to be based on you,whereas, again, like Penny said
when we started this, it reallyneeds to be based on you,
whereas, again, like Penny saidwhen we started this, it really
needs to be based around whatyou think your readers will find
(17:31):
interesting and, believe it ornot, and this may creep some
people out sharing some personalthings.
Yeah, it's very humanizing.
It makes you seem more real.
You know what I mean and whatthat does.
It also encourages people tosupport you more.
Seem more real.
You know what I mean Like andwhat that does.
It also encourages people tosupport you more, like leaving
reviews when you ask them toforward your newsletter.
(17:52):
Share with a friend.
If you seem like a real personthat they can connect with,
they're going to be so much morelikely to follow through when
you do have those asks, if youare human and so.
And also stick with something.
What's great about the personaltouches, especially if it's like
a hobby that's super importantto you, or if you have a pet
that you're obsessed with.
(18:12):
What's really great about that?
Also?
Or, if you were, if you love tocook, it might have a recipe to
share every once in a while.
What that also does is itcreates something expected and
consistent that helps you, thatgives you some direction for
future newsletters as well.
I mean, you'd be surprised ormaybe you won't how excited your
(18:34):
newsletter list might be to getupdates on your dog, like their
latest adventures, like becauseeverybody loves a cute dog
moment.
You know what I mean?
Oh for sure, maybe your dog'skind of a goofball.
So the latest you know what Imean the latest nonsense that
your dog has gotten intoPictures obviously, it's a great
(18:54):
way to use pictures.
These personal touches encouragepeople to open because, again,
like you said, penny, you're notselling them anything by
sharing that, you're justinviting them into your world
and that is a very real, veryhuman experience.
That really will encouragepeople to open more of these.
(19:15):
Because if they get a sensethat you're only selling them
something, or that you're onlythere to talk about my book,
this, my book, that my book,this, my book that it's like
eventually they're going to goyeah, I get it, you know what I
mean.
Like you like to talk about mybook, this, my book, that my
book, this, my book, that it'slike they're eventually they're
going to go.
Yeah, I get it.
You know what I mean.
Like you, you'd like to talkabout the book, and there's
nothing wrong with talking aboutthe book, but you need to make
it a more well-rounded, organicexperience for them.
(19:37):
Unless you again, like Pennysaid, unless you're setting out
a special edition because youhave a release coming out in the
coming weeks, absolutely Go forthat.
We do that as well, but inbetween, remember to keep it
unexpected but predictable, ifthat makes sense.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I think that is really, and Ithink that that's part of the
reason why we say you know, ifyou already have a list, you're
listening and you're like, oh, Ireally need you know, I haven't
done anything because it's onlya small number.
It's really a great way to getto to you know, to get your feet
(20:16):
wet with this, is to try out,try out the content and see what
resonates, see what gets openrates, and let me tell you, let
me give you, let me give youanother tip too is that when?
And we're going to talk alittle bit, I think I think the
call.
We have a lot of notes onnewsletters because we have very
strong feelings about thistopic.
But in terms of a call toaction, every newsletter should
have some kind of a call toaction in it, and that is
(20:39):
designed not just to get peopleto buy something Obviously, we
talked about, you know, the lowsales piece of the newsletter
but it's also designed to getyour readers to respond to you
directly.
That not only creates a greatpersonal connection, but it's
also a very weird algorithmthing where if somebody writes
(20:59):
you from, you know somebodyresponds to your newsletter,
writes you.
You should every single time,always write them back, because
that pings the system to saythat your newsletter content is
low, spam, low, no spam, thingslike that.
So if you have peopleresponding to you, you should be
respond, you should be respond.
Don't just be like, oh, that's areally nice thing and then
(21:21):
delete it.
Respond right back Again.
Not only is it great connection, but it's really good for the,
for the new, whatever newslettersystem that you use, okay.
So, and then just in terms ofthe length, I mean, I think you
know, make it skimmable.
I, I just I don't know about, Idon't know about y'all, but I
know Amy and I, like if we getan email, I mean in particular,
(21:43):
like if you send me an emailthat's more than one paragraph,
literally glaze over like like,oh my gosh.
I mean, I think you know, one tothree short sections is really,
and this is where a lot oftimes, authors really overthink
their newsletter, like, oh, Ihave to.
You know, I have to do all thisstuff.
It has to be novel length, ithas to not novel length, but you
(22:05):
get the idea right.
Headings, bullet points, imagesIf you have a system that can
do images, images are great.
And again, make sure that youalways preview it on mobile,
because if they're reading yournewsletter, they're probably
reading it on their phone.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
You know, yeah, that's a very good point and,
yeah, I think the the length tooand I think we got stuck in
this cycle.
We were better about movingaway from it is to not force it.
You know, don't, don't forcecontent.
If you had a section in yournewsletter for something, don't
feel like you have to leave itin every single time.
(22:42):
Again, this goes back to givingpeople useful content, funny
content, whatever makes sensefor who your readers are and the
kind of books that you write.
But I think you're going to geta lot better return and better
engagement rate if you focusmore on.
Is everything I'm putting inhere heartfelt or quality or
(23:04):
interesting, or you know what Imean versus like checking it off
your list like I did thissection, I did this section.
You know what I mean.
There's nothing wrong withhaving, you know, sections or a
template to work from, to buildaround.
But again, I I would think thatme personally, I'd rather yeah,
I'd rather read a shorternewsletter that was really
(23:25):
interesting or that hadsomething to my benefit, versus
a longer newsletter Becausenobody's sitting there going.
Oh, thank goodness that thisnewsletter is six pages long,
otherwise I would have beendisappointed.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I know, I know it.
Yeah, I completely agree tothat.
And one of the things that westarted doing too in our
newsletter which I'm verycertain was Amy's idea, because
she has all the great ideas isthat we now link out to other
content.
So we link to blog posts, asopposed to we used to.
Like I said, we used to havelong newsletters and it was very
(23:59):
weird and a lot of work, butnow we link out to blog posts
that may be of interest to oursubscribers, right, so they can
have a newsletter.
The content's short.
If they want to dive deeper,here's some links, and that's
something that also absolutelyworks too.
(24:23):
Works too.
So then, in terms of so a verysimple call to action and I
covered this also in my bookFrom Book to Bestseller is do
some kind of a giveaway, right,do some kind of a giveaway in
your newsletter.
So, and again, the call toaction is yes, you definitely
(24:45):
want to mention if you have apromo coming up, a new book, et
cetera.
So your book should definitelybe mentioned, but have some kind
of a giveaway and mention it.
So, in your newsletter intro,mention like okay, we pulled
another raffle, even if it'slike a $5, you know Amazon gift
(25:06):
card, you can rent a movie.
I don't know if you can rent amovie for $5.
Almost An older movie, maybe,right?
Yeah, I'm like I saw a movierental for like I think it was
like $21.
I'm like are you serious, right?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I know I guess still cheaper than going to the
theater, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, going to the theater, I suppose.
Yeah, it seemed really maybe Imisread that it's very possible,
but anyway.
And here is something, and I'verecommended this to a lot of
authors so doing a giveaway pernewsletter, right, encourages
them to open up the newsletter.
Okay.
So in the intro mentioned okay,we have, we pulled another, you
(25:42):
know, reader giveaway in thisnewsletter.
Yay, super excited.
Make them scroll all the way tothe bottom to see if they've
won.
So never announce the winner inthe intro, always announce it at
the bottom.
So, last thing, that beforethey leave the newsletter,
there's the winner.
Now the winner has to contactyou within the first, like I
(26:05):
would say, five to seven daysafter you know.
So within seven days, if theyhaven't contacted you, you don't
reach out to them and say, hey,you won.
They have to take the action tocontact you and let you know
and then they won.
Otherwise the prize goes backinto the prize pot and then
maybe next month, if you'redoing a $5 gift card, maybe next
(26:27):
month it's $10 or it's $20 orwhatever, or you could just
repeat the $5 gift card everymonth.
I've known people to do this anddo so very successfully because
A it's.
You know, there's nothing likea little freebie to get somebody
, like incentivize somebody toopen up a newsletter, but, and a
freebie where they don't haveto actually buy something to get
(26:47):
like, no, you don't have to buythis, you know, $200 handbag to
get your 5% discount orsomething.
Right, right, yes, you know, um, and then you know.
And then getting them to scrollthrough the newsletter does
encourage unless they're justrapid scrolling to see if they
won, it encourages them to gothrough the content.
(27:07):
I mean, what do you, Amy, whatdo you think?
Yeah, I mean, I think.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And getting the like you said, call to action, even
if it's subtle and we mentionedI mean you mentioned earlier,
penny, about talking about howyou name your characters, how
you come up with things likethat.
I mean you can get so creativemight have a bit of a leg up in
(27:38):
terms of the creativity withcall to actions, where you may
not think that you have a lot tosay, unlike where nonfiction,
in theory, that author has a lotto say.
I mean their goal is to be athought leader, to be an
influencer, to be you know whatI mean.
Whatever it is that they'respecializing in, it's sharing
their knowledge so they can tapinto all sorts of stuff for
their newsletter.
But I think some of the call toaction stuff is where fiction
(28:00):
authors can really have a lot offun.
You know you can have peopleweigh in on choices coming up in
your book or in your writing orhave them respond to different
cover ideas and things like that.
Like, just think of things thatyou normally would potentially
ask a friend or a colleague orin your writer group and start
(28:22):
including your fans in that aswell and see what kind of
responses you get.
And to your point, penny, ifanybody responds, definitely
respond back, include them.
And then it's amazing how, whenyou start getting these
conversations going, that canturn into content for a future
newsletter as well.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, yeah, it can absolutely get, yeah, it can
absolutely do that.
And then, I think you know,start to.
So one of the other things thatyou mentioned to one of our
authors that we've worked withis, you know, encourage people
to follow you on, for example,Goodreads.
(28:59):
We just did a.
We literally just did aGoodreads show.
And in fact, it was probablylast week's show that we did the
new Goodreads.
Some of the Goodreads changes,so follow me on Goodreads,
follow me on Amazon, follow meon Instagram for you know daily
writing updates or whatever.
Forward this newsletter to afriend.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
In the follow back.
Sorry, penny, now that you'resaying follow me, like,
encourage them, like tell themyou'll follow them back if they
respond and share theirGoodreads account, you know what
I mean.
Like there's no reason not toagain everything that you put
out there.
Like there's no reason not toagain everything that you put
out there.
Try to turn it into a two-wayconversation in some way shape
or form.
You know, because, as you weresaying that, sorry, I was like
(29:45):
oh my gosh, yes, because a lotof people would love to be
followed by some of theirfavorite authors too.
Oh my gosh, yes.
So, as you're asking people tofollow, you say you know and
respond back.
I'd love to follow you onGoodreads.
I'd love to see what you'rereading, you know.
Respond back and let me knowwhat you know, your username or
whatever.
Yeah, I'll start following youbecause people get excited when
(30:07):
they feel like they're a part ofwhat's happening.
You know people love to sharetheir opinions and they love to
be involved, you know.
So, as much as you can makeeverything a two-way
conversation, a two-way streetyou know what I mean Do it Like
brainstorm the hell out of thoseopportunities.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I completely agree with that.
And now, in terms of, you know,involving chat GPT in this,
there are.
So this is a really really,really great way to creatively
use chat.
Amy and I just refer to chatGPT as chat, just because chat
GPT is kind of a mouthful, so,um, this is a really great way
(30:49):
to involve chat in this process.
So one of the things that Iwould recommend, if you're going
to so what ideally what youwould use chat for, is kind of
your second brain, so tobrainstorm content ideas, put
the you know, put the draft ofthe newsletter, for example, in
chat and maybe have it tightenit up or say it in a different
(31:10):
way.
I do this a lot actually for,even for, like, social media
posts and stuff, becausesometimes I just get for me
anyway, like I get caught up onthe verbiage, like sometimes I'm
a little bit too verbose as itwere, and I will put it into
chat and say you know, could youjust tighten this up and
shorten it, or maybe say it adifferent way?
(31:30):
So, if you're going to use so,here's a little tip.
If you're going to use chat,the best way to use chat is with
the strongest prompt.
So be clear on what you want itto do.
Don't just say, hey, I'm goingto run a newsletter, give me
some ideas, because chat willjust spit out like some rando
ideas that Generic stuff Right,the 80% of them probably don't
even apply to you, right, andthat make people hate chat or
(31:52):
the idea of it.
Right, exactly None of theseideas are going to work for me.
Well, but your prompt wasreally ambiguous.
So put in links, like, put inlinks to your website, to your
author page on Amazon, to youror to your individual book pages
.
If you want really give chat agood platform to work from,
(32:25):
right, a lot of informationabout you, and then ask it for.
So just give me like 10 contentideas, right?
So I just did this actually forand I'm just going to be like
full disclosure here I just didthis for social media.
I was like, oh you know, Ireally want some some, some fall
themed social media posts.
So I threw in chat in, you know, I threw all of our links to
all of our social media accounts, all sort of succinct, so one
(32:48):
week we're not talking about onething, in the next, like all of
it should be slanted towardsfall and then ramping up the
holiday shopping and things likethat.
And so that's really where themore concise that you can get in
(33:11):
your prompt in your directive,the better that chat, you know,
the better example, the betterfeedback that you'll get from
chat in terms of examples andthings like that.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
So Absolutely, and I love the idea of using it to
revise the phrasing and thewording because you can
specifically especially, likePenny said, if you've given chat
, you know your website, yoursocial handle and things like
that, so they can get a feel forwho you are and your tone and
and things like that they can.
They can keep things within theboundaries that make sense for
(33:44):
your current tone and how youwrite and how you communicate,
but they can.
It's a great way to make surethat what you want to express
makes sense to somebody who isnot inside your brain.
Let's be honest, Right, Becausea lot of times, the things that
we write make sense to usbecause we are firsthand like no
(34:07):
, we know what we want to say,and we've mentioned this before
on shows, we're not saying it'sgoing to be ready to copy and
paste and send, but it's worthgetting different variations and
you can ask for that Like I dothat too, Penny where it's like
give me three different versionsof this.
Here's what I'm looking for.
Again, the prompts matter, butwhat's really great is that you
(34:28):
just get a different.
You get an idea of how elsesomething could be said and you
might be really impressed withthe changes and how it does
still sound like you, so it'sstill very much what you want to
say, but it's worded in a waythat is going to resonate
quicker, easier, make more sensefor the person on the receiving
(34:48):
end, and I think there's a lotof value in that.
Especially when it comes to anewsletter and you were quite
literally asking people to stopwhat they're doing and spending
a few minutes of their dayimmersed in your content, the
least you can do is put in theeffort to ensure that it's an
enjoyable experience in terms ofunderstanding what you're
trying to communicate in thingslike that.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, exactly, and you know the other.
I mean not to belabor the howcreative chat can be, but email
subject lines are reallyimportant.
So we open emails.
I mean, unless it's an emailfrom somebody that we know or
somebody, a work project,whatever, generally speaking,
the email subject line drivesthe open rate.
(35:31):
So I love throwing some ideasinto chat because I do I very
much and I know like I writelike writing, I love writing,
but I do sometimes get into myown way by being too wordy or
not saying the right way.
So that's a really good, youknow.
So it's another.
So email subject lines fornewsletters another great way to
(35:51):
brainstorm.
So reader magnet Now this isthe thing that's going to be in
your to get people to sign upfor your newsletter.
So you know, a sign-up magnetwhich I think a lot of like.
We see this around.
We're like, oh, get 10% offthis if you sign up and whatever
(36:12):
.
The reader magnet obviously,when you're buying clothes or
you're buying shoes or whatever,the discount is the magnet
right, the discount is awesome,hopefully it's awesome, but your
reader magnet has to besomething that really relates to
(36:32):
your reader.
And this is another area, justreally frankly, that we, amy and
I really struggled with, Ithink, when you first started we
had that.
We had a series of prompts thatwould go out to authors over a
period of time.
It was like it was an emaildrip campaign is what it was and
(36:53):
that was the reader magnet.
I don't dislike those, but Imean they were a lot of work.
They were.
They were a lot of work,especially if you are in and
this is particular, this is veryparticular to nonfiction
authors If you're in a, ifyou're in an industry that
(37:14):
changes frequently, like ours,does they become a little bit of
a nightmare?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Right, keeping them current and updated, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah, Keeping them current and updated, right.
So a reader magnet is somethingthat you are going to give your
sign, that people are going toget for signing up.
Do not overthink this, right?
This is another area whereauthors much like the content of
the newsletter and how often tosend it.
Authors oftentimes reallyoverthink this.
So it should fall in line withyour author brand, so it should
(37:45):
be something that's on brand.
So, for example, if you wroteand this is a real example, I
swear to you, I talked to anauthor who wrote a cozy mystery.
It was either a mystery orsomething under the mystery.
It was either a cozy mystery orjust a straight mystery and
this author gave away copies ofMoby Dick as their reader magnet
(38:06):
, which has literally nothing todo with the genre that they
write in, but it's free, likeit's in public domain, and so
don't use public domain.
And this was for a long timeand this use public domain and
this was for a long time andthis goes back about 15 years,
but for a long time people wereusing public domain stuff as
reader magnets and I'm like,well, that's weird, Like, like,
(38:29):
I mean like could you?
imagine if we did that on ourwebsite.
Hey, so welcome to authormarketing experts.
Here's a copy of Moby Dick Likereally Right, Exactly.
It's like yeah, right, so it hasto.
Sorry, I just think that's sofunny.
It has to relate to your, so ithas to be something that is
your author brand.
So quality obviously counts.
(38:51):
Not that Moby Dick is not ahigh quality book Like I get it.
It's not related.
It really dings yourcredibility.
It's not related to your topic.
And a reader magnet I mean, amy, I'm not putting you on the
spot, but what are some readermagnets that you've seen that
you think are really cool?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Like I said, this is another one of those areas where
there's pros and cons, Isuppose, to being fiction and
nonfiction when it comes tocoming up with these.
Because, again, nonfiction, youkind of have built in reader
magnets because people areseeking out what you have to say
, because they're looking to fixa problem, they're looking to
(39:34):
get better at something.
They're looking you know what Imean.
The list goes on for what otherkind of added benefits that you
can tack on to your book'stopic?
But for fiction, you also havesome great opportunities.
And another thing too is that Iwouldn't try not to go too
broad, don't give awayeverything with your reader
(39:54):
magnet, because I think that'sanother thing too that it kind
of stunts your growth in termsof ways you can evolve your
reader magnet, some of yourcontent, ideas, things like that
.
So, for example, I lovecharacter deep dives for fiction
because a lot of times if I'vereally enjoyed a fiction book,
(40:14):
there's so much more I want toknow about that character and I
I obsess over wanting to seepictures of what, of who, what
the author thought the characterlooks like.
I realize some people hate thatbecause they have something in
their head, but I love to seewhat a character potentially
looks like.
I just actually searched for itfor a client that we work with,
(40:35):
cause.
I was reading her books and I'mlike I wonder if she's posted
character pictures on her socialand totally stalked her social
until I found it Right.
Yes, and it was amazing.
So I think those can be reallycool because it's it's it draws
people into your world more.
You know.
So short stories, characterprofiles again, don't give it a,
don't give away all of it.
(40:56):
So it's like I actuallywouldn't suggest that you do
like all of your main charactersin one and provide all of that
for free for signing up for yournewsletter.
Maybe stick to like the top twoor three characters and tell
people there's more to come inthe future.
So keep like, keep opening thenewsletter.
And then you've kind of pulledthem further into and given them
(41:17):
reasons to stay current witheverything that you're sending
out.
But I mean, oh, there's so manydifferent ways.
But I do think if you arefiction, the additional you know
, take people to another levelin the world that you've created
.
And then, penny, you mentionedresearch earlier.
I think that's also a reallycool reader magnet as well, that
(41:41):
if you've written somethingthat required a lot of research
and you can produce maybe ashort story or something like
that that kind of dives into theresearch process.
I think that is also such acool way to again give people
different layers of how theyengage with you and what they
know about the world you'recreating.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I think that there is again.
You're going to want toexperiment with these because,
like we did, you know and I meanquizzes, checklist worksheets
for nonfiction you know, what'sso funny is people love quizzes.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
I, I am guilty of that Like I love.
Like, what kind of cocktail areyou?
I mean?
Right, it's so fun.
Quizzes are so fun and, again,they don't have to be really
complex.
I've never used chat to do aquiz.
I'm sure you can, but quizzesare really once.
(42:47):
I got over the hurdle of tryingto make them way too complex.
We've done quizzes for ourstuff and people just really
people, people just really lovethem, People just really love
them.
So reader magnets reallyimportant, great way to get
people to sign up.
You get their newsletter, youget their email address and they
(43:12):
get in turn something reallycool and you can brainstorm some
reader magnet ideas.
Like, if you already havesomething set up in chat for,
you know, for your newsletter,you can also pop in there and
just see what it says in termsof reader magnet ideas.
Again, sometimes chatovershoots things a little bit.
We've seen that too.
But you know, if you ask for 10reader magnet ideas, you might
(43:35):
find one or two that areactually really you know that
are really doable.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
And don't forget your cutting room floor stuff.
Oh yeah, you know that'ssomething else that is that fans
tend to love.
It's like, well, I actually wasgoing to end this chapter this
way and I'm going to shoot.
You know what I mean.
Things like that that could bereally fun.
Alternate endings you knowchapters that you cut out, ways
(44:01):
that, like, maybe a characterwent in an entirely different
direction.
You know what I mean.
So, really have fun with thestuff that you also consider how
you can use things that didn'tend up making it into the book
as well.
Those are great ideas for bothnewsletter content and reader
magnets.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Well, and the thing about it is, though, too, is
that when you have a book thatis, you know that is really
popular those cutting room floorthings are readers really eat
those up.
I mean, think about I'm goingto really date myself here, but
anybody who's listeningremembers when DVDs and and like
(44:37):
videotapes right, you had thedirector's cut, and I'm a huge
Star Wars fan, don't you know?
I was at Blockbuster Videorenting the director's cut of
Star Wars.
I want to see all the stuffthat didn't make it into the
movie, and that's something thatfans just really, really want.
In fact, and I've read a bookrecently where they finally
(44:59):
caught like it was a thriller,and they finally caught the
crazy person, and like I want tosee this.
This is going to make me soundreally awful.
I would love it if the authorwould write a bonus chapter that
I have access to that tells mewhat an awful life that this
person now has, now that theywere caught.
(45:20):
That's funny, right, because Iwas so engrossed in this book
and in the outcome.
So I think that, as you're youknow, you're obviously reader
magnet idea.
Reader magnets are going toevolve, as you have, you know,
different as different bookscome out and things like that.
So, um, so, yes.
So the moral of the story,listeners, is don't overthink it
(45:42):
.
Just get started with yournewsletter.
I promise you your newsletterand across the board this is an.
Every single author can do thisyour newsletter is going to
repay you in ways that you can'teven imagine.
It is a great, great additionto your brand and to all of the
marketing stuff that you do.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
And now we've given you permission to do it, even if
there's only 10 people on yourlist.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah, that's exactly what you wanted to hear, right,
yeah, and I'll tell yousomething.
If you have a newsletter, ifyou're listening and you have a
newsletter, send us your lastnewsletter.
I want to see it.
Send it to us.
Our contact details are in theshow notes when you start the
newsletter.
Just make sure that you areconsistent with it.
(46:26):
So I think starting and stoppingsomething is never a good idea.
Okay, plan out your nextseveral issues so that you don't
have to, like, think about itevery single month.
You're like I have to.
You know, when we first used todo our newsletter, I remember
just really dreading it like, ohmy gosh, okay, and of course we
were doing it every week, so Iwas really dreading it.
No-transcript, we are, andhopefully this will fall in line
(47:13):
with the queue.
We are also going to do a showon street teams and super fans,
which hopefully will be nextweek.
Sometimes our scheduling gets alittle bit misaligned, but
hopefully it will be next weekbecause it is a follow-on show
to this.
So if it's not, you know, ifyou don't see it in the queue
for next week, next Friday, besure to look for it, because
(47:33):
we're definitely going to dogoing to do a show on street
teams and super fans, which iskind of the next level from.
Okay, you have your newsletter,now let's take it up another
level.
Thank you so much for listeningto the show.
We appreciate all your showideas and your show feedback.
We love that and your reviews,thank you, thank you.
Thank you everybody for some ofthe new reviews we've gotten,
thanks to Amy, who put in easyways to review on Apple Podcasts
(48:00):
, which has helped ustremendously.
So thank you so much for tuningin and we'll see you next time.
Bye-bye.
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