March 3, 2025 • 24 mins
Dive into the nuanced world of persuasion and manipulation in our latest episode, where we explore how understanding the dark triad of personality traits can help you recognize manipulation tactics in others. Through engaging discussions and relatable examples, we unfold the complexities of human behavior, revealing both the sinister and the empowering sides of influence.
Learn about practical techniques for ethical persuasion that you can apply in daily interactions, such as reciprocity, scarcity, and the power of social proof. We discuss the influence of body language on communication and share the five C's to enhance your understanding of non-verbal cues.
Our insights extend to building confidence and resilience, emphasizing the role they play in becoming a persuasive communicator. By cultivating self-awareness and empathy, you’ll be equipped to wield the power of influence responsibly.
Join us for this thought-provoking journey that merges psychology with practical strategies, and be ready to elevate your understanding of interpersonal dynamics. Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, so are you ready to dive into this?
Today, we're going to belooking at persuasion and
manipulation.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
And you gave me some really, really interesting
sources for this one.
We've got classic psychology,we've got body language secrets,
we've even got some NLP stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's a lot.
Yeah, it's a lot.
We're going to be busy.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We're going to be busy.
Yeah, it's like we're trying todecode human behavior yeah
trying to figure out what makespeople tick.
I like that yeah, and how allof those hidden motivations can
be used to influence them forbetter or for worse, right, yeah
, for good or for evil, exactlyright.
So our goal today is to kind ofgive everyone listening the
(00:41):
knowledge to spot thosemanipulation tactics.
But we don't want to stop there.
Yeah, we're also gonna look athow we can use this ethically,
yes, to become more persuasiveourselves because who doesn't
want a little more influence,right?
I mean, yeah, wouldn't that benice?
A little bit, yeah, a littlebit so influence is a powerful
cool.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It is for sure it is, and I think that's why it's so
important to understand thedarker side of it as well.
You know the manipulationtactics and the personality
types that can be used againstus.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
That's why one of the sources that you shared,
Manipulation and Dark Psychology.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It introduces this idea of the dark triad.
Have you heard of that?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I have heard of the dark triad.
Yes, Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's a little scary.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, it is, it's.
I mean, it's like narcissism,machiavellianism and and
psychopathy, psychopathy.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And these traits can be pretty alarming.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Especially when they're used to manipulate and
exploit others.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, it's a little unnerving to think about.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
It is a bit unsettling.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Like how these could be used against us.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, you know, yeah, out in the world.
Yeah, I mean you're right.
It is unsettling, but you haveto keep in mind that these
traits exist on a spectrum.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
We all have them to some degree.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's when they become dominant and are intentionally
used to harm others that theybecome truly dangerous.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So it's not just about having these traits, no.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's about the intent behind them, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Okay, that makes me feel a bit better.
Yeah, can you give us someexamples of how these dark triad
traits might show up like inreal life manipulation?
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Let's say you're dealing with acoworker who's constantly
trying to take credit for yourideas or belittling your
contributions.
You've never had that right,never, never.
That could be had.
That right, never, never.
That could be a sign ofnarcissism.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
A need to feel superior and inflate their own
ego at your expense.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Okay, so they're putting you down to build
themselves up.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay.
Classic office power move right, it is, it is.
Yeah, what aboutMachiavellianism?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Ah, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
How does that play out differently?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, someone who is high in Machiavellianism is a
lot more strategic andcalculated in their manipulation
.
They might use charm andflattery to gain your trust.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Only to use that trust later to manipulate you
into doing something thatbenefits them.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Oh, so you think that you have like a friend.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Right or something yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But they're actually just using you.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Exactly.
You have like a friend right orsomething, yeah, but they're
actually just using you.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Exactly it's about coldly using others as pawns wow
to achieve their own goalsthat's chilling it's a little
bit scary, isn't it yeah?
So it's less about emotionaloutbursts and more about
carefully crafted schemes.
Yeah, I see yeah,machiavellianism.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Okay, that's the one to watch out for.
I'm watching out, be careful.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I am.
So the book also dives intosome specific Manipulation
tactics.
Yes, things like Traumatic onetrial learning.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Which sounds especially scary.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
That one is a powerful and often disturbing
technique.
Okay, so Imagine.
Okay, good, what is it?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You have a boss, okay , and they publicly humiliate an
employee for a minor mistake.
The impact of that is so strongthat everyone else in the
office is now terrified ofmaking even the slightest error.
Wow, that single traumaticexperience has effectively
controlled everyone's behavior.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
So it's like a psychological shock tactic that
creates a lasting impact.
Exactly, that's behavior.
So it's like a psychologicalshock tactic.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
That creates a lasting impact.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Exactly, that's terrifying.
It can be, yeah, but it alsomakes these concepts more real
and relatable, right.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Well, it does.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, because you just when you hear a story.
Yeah, exactly it becomes a lotmore real.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
You can imagine it happening.
It makes you think, oh, I'veseen that.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yes, for sure I've seen that happen?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
I think we all have.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
The source also discusses positive and negative
reinforcement as manipulationtactics.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Okay, so those are kind of like basic learning
principles, right yeah, rightLike when you're training a dog.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
But they can be applied to people as well.
Really, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Think of it this way An abusive partner who showers
their victim with gifts andaffection after an episode of
violence.
That's positive reinforcementdesigned to keep the victim
trapped in the cycle of abuse.
Oh wow, they associate the goodtimes with the bad, making it
harder to break free.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Oh, that's so sad.
It's heartbreaking yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
And it really shows how these seemingly simple
concepts can be twisted and usedto exploit people.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, and that one is an example where it's not so
obvious.
Right, right, yeah, exactlyBecause you think, oh, that's
nice, that they're being sosweet and giving gifts.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, you would think that.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
But really it's like this terrible cycle.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, and I think a lot of manipulation operates on
that very subtle level.
Okay, you know, the manipulatormight not even be consciously
aware of what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Oh, so it's not like some evil mastermind.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
No, not always.
Okay, it can be more like apattern of behavior that's
become ingrained over time.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So almost like they've been conditioned in a
way Right Themselves.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And that's why awareness is so crucial.
Yeah, the more we understandthese patterns.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
OK.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
The better equipped we are to recognize them in
ourselves and others.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Now, you also mentioned priming theory as a
potential manipulation tactic.
Ah that one really intrigues me.
I don't know if I fully graspit.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
OK, yeah, can you?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
explain a little more .
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Priming theory is really fascinating because it
shows how subtle cues caninfluence our thoughts and
behaviors without us evenrealizing it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
So it's almost like subliminal messaging.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It's kind of like that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Imagine you're a marketer trying to sell a new
energy drink.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Okay drink.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Okay, you could subtly prime consumers by
placing images of athletes andfitness enthusiasts throughout
your advertising campaign.
Even if they don't consciouslyregister these images, they
might unconsciously associateyour drink with athleticism and
performance, making them morelikely to buy it.
So you're planting these seedsin people's minds that influence
(06:44):
their decisions, without themeven being aware of it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Wow, that's.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Pretty powerful stuff .
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, and a little unsettling.
It is.
It's kind of scary actually.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It is.
It raises some interestingethical questions.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
About how these techniques are used.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, because people don't even know Right.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
That Right.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
That they're being influenced.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
They can't really defend against it Right, exactly
.
Yeah, it's like that, sayingwith great power.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Comes great responsibility.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Comes great responsibility.
Yeah, that's exactly what I wassaying.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Exactly, and as we delve deeper into this world of
persuasion and manipulation,it's important to keep that
responsibility in mind For sure.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Okay, so let's take a break.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Okay, and then?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
when we come back, we'll talk about.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
How to use all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, how to use it ethically For good To get what
we want.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
All right, we'll be back in a minute.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Sounds good.
It's like we're holding thismagnifying glass up to human
behavior.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Examining these intricate workings.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Of influence and persuasion.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Okay, so we've looked at the dark side.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
All the manipulation tactics.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
The personality types that can be used against us.
But what about flipping thescript?
Okay, how can we use thisknowledge?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
To become more persuasive ourselves.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
That is the question, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
It is yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
That's where it gets really interesting.
One of the sources that youshared Principles of Persuasion
outlines some fascinatingtechniques that can be used to
influence others in a positiveway.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Okay, I like that.
Yeah, Ethically.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Ethically?
Yes.
For example, there's theprinciple of reciprocity, okay,
the idea that people are morelikely to do something for you
if you've done something forthem first.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
So you're creating a sense of obligation, exactly
Like if I give you a gift, youfeel like you need to give me a
gift back.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, it's a deeply ingrained social norm.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Think about those free samples at the grocery
store.
They're not just being generous, they're subtly leveraging that
principle of reciprocity tomake you more likely to buy the
product.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I never thought about it that way.
But yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I've definitely fallen for that one before.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I know me too Like those little orange chicken
samples at the mall.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
It gets you every time.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Every time, and then I feel bad if I don't buy
something.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
You kind of got to buy something.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I do Yep.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
And then there's the principle of scarcity.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Things seem more desirable when they're in
limited supply.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Okay, yeah, so it's that limited time offer.
Exactly that makes you feellike you got to act now.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Or you can miss out.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, the classic FOMO.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
The FOMO.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Fear of missing out.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Fear of missing out.
Marketers are masters at thatone.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Oh, they are masters of that.
Yeah, it really taps into thatprimal instinct to secure
resources.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
You know, even if we don't logically need the product
.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
The idea that it might become unavailable makes
us want it more.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Oh, so it's like that sense of urgency that kind of
like bypasses our rationaldecision making process Exactly.
Wow, these are some powerfultechniques.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
They are.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
But how do we use them ethically?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Ah, that's the question, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It is because it feels kind of manipulative.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
It does.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
If we're intentionally trying to trigger
these psychological responses.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
It's a valid concern.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think the key is to use these principles in a way
that's authentic.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
And transparent.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Okay, you know, so don't be sneaky about it.
Yeah, don't be sneaky Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
For example, instead of using scarcity to create
artificial pressure, you canhighlight the unique benefits of
your product or service.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Right.
So really focus on the genuinevalue yeah.
Not just trying to create FOMO.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Right, just really highlight what makes it special
and why people would genuinelybenefit from it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I like that.
What about social proof?
Ah yes, I heard that that's areally powerful one.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Social proof is the idea that we're more likely to
do something if we see otherpeople doing it.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
It's like that feeling of well, if everyone
else is doing it, it must begood, right, right?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
It must be okay.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Think about online reviews.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
If a product has hundreds of five star reviews.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I'm more likely to buy it.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, you're more likely to trust it and buy it
yourself.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, I look at those all the time.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
We all do.
Yeah, we're social creatures.
You know we look to others forcues on how to behave especially
when we're not sure especiallywhen we're uncertain.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Is this a good product?
I don't know Right.
Let me see what other peoplethink.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Let's see what the reviews say.
Product I don't know Right.
Let me see what other peoplethink.
Let's see what the reviews say.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, and marketers know this.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Oh yeah, that's why influencer marketing is so
effective.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Oh yeah, they're leveraging the principle of
social proof.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, they get someone that you already like.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yes, and trust Exactly To tell you to buy
something.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
To endorse a product.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
It works, it works yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So it's all about creating that sense of trust and
validation.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It is yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
And when it comes to ethical persuasion, ok, social
proof can be a really powerfultool.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
OK.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
For showcasing the positive impact of your product
or service.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
So how would you do that?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Well, you could share testimonials.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
OK.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
From satisfied customers.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
You could highlight positive media coverage Okay,
you know or showcase how yourwork is making a difference in
the world.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Okay, so it's not just about blindly following the
crowd.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
No, it's about.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
It's about using social proof to build
credibility Okay, and trust.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I like that.
So instead of trying tomanufacture that, yes, you're
actually showing real results.
Real results yeah that you'reactually showing real results,
real results.
Yeah, I like that.
Now, another key principle thatemerges from several of the
sources is the importance ofempathy in persuasion.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So can you explain a little bit more about that?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Sure Empathy is really about understanding the
other person's perspective,their needs and their
motivations.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So the more that you understand your audience, the
better you can kind of tailoryour message to resonate with
them.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yes, and this also ties into the concept of active
listening.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
You know, it's not just about waiting for your turn
to speak.
It's about genuinely engagingwith what the other person is
saying.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Asking, clarifying questions and reflecting back
their thoughts and feelings.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
So it's really about creating a dialogue.
Yeah, a space for genuineconnection.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
And understand, and that's where body language comes
in again.
Ah yes, bod One of the sourceshighlights the five C's of body
language.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Context clusters congruence, consistency and
culture.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Wow, that's a lot of Cs.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
It is a lot of Cs, but I think if we break it down
it'll be easier to understand.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So context seems pretty straightforward.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You have to consider the situation, environment when
you're interpreting bodylanguage cues.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Exactly A clenched fist might mean anger in one
context, but excitement inanother.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, or like a yawn.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Could mean you're bored, or it could mean you're
tired.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Exactly, yeah, it depends.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
It does.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Okay, and then clusters.
Yes, we've talked about thisbefore, but it's about looking
for multiple signals.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Not just isolated gestures.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
So if someone is avoiding eye contact, but their
body is relaxed, yeah.
And they sound friendly.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
They're probably just shy.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, probably Not deceptive Okay.
And then there's congruence.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
It's about making sure your body language aligns
with your words.
Oh, fantastic If you're sayingyes, but shaking your head no.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
You're sending mixed signals.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, and that can be really confusing it can create
confusion and distrust.
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And then consistency.
That's about looking forpatterns in someone's behavior
over time.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
So if they're usually really outgoing and then all of
a sudden they're withdrawn,something might be up.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Something's going on.
Yeah, it could be a sign ofstress, deception or just a
change in mood.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Oh, okay, so it doesn't necessarily mean
anything bad.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
No, not necessarily it's just something to be aware
of.
And finally, culture.
We have to be aware thatdifferent cultures have
different norms for bodylanguage.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
What's considered polite in one culture could be
rude in another.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Exactly, yeah, okay, so we have to be mindful of
cultural differences when we'reinterpreting those nonverbal
cues.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
That's a good point.
Okay, so those five C's are areally good framework for
understanding the complexitiesof body language.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Absolutely.
They really highlight how muchmore there is to communication
than just the words we speak,our tone of voice, our posture,
our facial expressions.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
All of it.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It all plays a role in conveying meaning.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And that's why self-awareness is so crucial.
It is.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
We have to be mindful of the signals that we're
sending, both verbally andnon-verbally.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Absolutely.
Okay so this has been a lot ofinformation.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I know.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
To digest.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It is.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
So we're going to take a little break.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
And then when we come back, yes.
We're going to dive into evenmore.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Specific techniques.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I know me too.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
For ethical persuasion.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Can't wait.
All right, we'll be back in aimportant to remember that
manipulation can take many formsfrom those subtle psychological
tactics to outright coercion.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So we've looked at the dark side all those
manipulation tactics, thepersonality types, even the
psychology of cults.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
It's been a lot.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
It has been a lot yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
But now I'm really eager to shift gears and talk
about how we can use thisknowledge to become more
persuasive ourselves.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I like it Ethically, of course.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Of course ethically.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Because you know there are ways to use this stuff
that aren't so good.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But we want to focus on the good.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
The good stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yes, the good stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Okay, so one of the sources that you gave me dives
into the power of framing.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Oh yes, framing In persuasion, framing is so
powerful.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, it's basically about how the way we present
information can influencepeople's perceptions and
decisions.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
It really can.
Yeah, it can completely changehow people see things.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Like I've heard about this a lot with political
campaigns.
Oh yeah, how?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
people see things.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Like I've heard about this a lot with political
campaigns, oh yeah, when youknow a candidate can spin a
negative issue into a positiveone just by choosing the right
words.
Exactly, it's all about usinglanguage to evoke a specific
emotional response.
Okay, or reinforce a particularperspective.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Okay, you know.
So instead of saying like thisproduct is expensive.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Right, you could say this product is an investment.
Exactly, you're highlightingthe value the long-term benefits
right, rather than focusing onthat upfront cost see, I see.
So the source gives a lot ofdifferent examples yes, it does
how framing is used in likemarketing advertising everyday
conversations, even to shape ourperceptions and influence our
choices.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So it's like we're all living in this.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It is a little bit Matrix of carefully crafted
narratives.
Yeah, it's a powerful concept,isn't it?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, it is, it is, and so the more we understand
the power of framing yes, thebetter we can critically
evaluate information.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And make our own choices.
So it's not just about beingpersuasive ourselves, but it's
about being smart consumers ofinformation and recognizing when
other people are trying tomanipulate us.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That's right.
Don't let them get away with it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Don't let them.
Okay Now, another source thatyou gave me talked about
nonverbal communication,specifically in the context of
persuasion.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Body language.
It can be just Another sourcethat you gave me.
Talked about nonverbalcommunication.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Specifically in the context of persuasion.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Body language.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
It can be just as influential as our words.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I've definitely noticed that.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, I think we all have.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Sometimes you can just sense someone's sincerity
or lack thereof.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Just from their body language.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Even if their words are saying something different
Totally from their body language, even if their words are saying
something different Totally.
That's because our nonverbalcues, our posture, our gestures,
our facial expressions.
They often convey our truefeelings and intentions, even
when we're trying to mask them.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
So how can we use body language?
That is the question To ouradvantage when we're trying to
be persuasive.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Well, the source suggests that the key is
congruence.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Making sure our nonverbal cues are aligned with
our verbal message.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Okay, so like if I'm trying to convey confidence.
Yes, I need to have goodposture.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yes, stand up straight.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Shoulders back.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Shoulders back.
Make eye contact.
Eye contact Okay, yes.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So it's not just about saying the right words.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
It's about embodying, yes, the message.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Embodying the message .
I like that.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And the source also highlights the importance of
mirroring.
Ah yes, Fuddly matching theother person's body language to
create that sense of connectionand rapport.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
We talked about that a little bit with NLP.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
We did.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
It's kind of like creating that subconscious sense
of harmony, harmony andunderstanding.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And when it comes to persuasion, I can make all the
difference.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It can.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Because when we feel like someone is on the same
wavelength as us, we'renaturally more inclined to trust
them and be open to theirmessage.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
So if they're leaning forward, yes.
I should lean forward a littlebit Subtly.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You don't want to be too obvious.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
But just a little bit .
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
And if they're speaking softly, you might lower
your voice slightly.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Okay, so just kind of match their energy.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, match their energy.
But, do it genuinely.
Don't be fake.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It's not about being fake.
It's about creating a space fora deeper connection.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Okay, so I'm curious about touch.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yes, touch.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Because I've heard that a well-placed touch can
create a sense of intimacy andtrust.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It can, but it's also a very delicate area.
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
You have to be very mindful of social norms and
personal boundaries.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You can't just go around touching everyone.
No, you can't, so what's okayand what's not okay.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Well, a light touch on the arm or shoulder can
convey warmth and connection.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
But anything more intimate could be perceived as
inappropriate or eventhreatening.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, so it's really about.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It's about using touch judiciously and
respectfully.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And always being attuned to the other person's
nonverbal cues.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Right, because if they're like recoiling, yeah,
exactly, you need to back off.
Yeah, yeah, step back, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Okay, right, because if they're like recoiling.
Yeah exactly you need to backoff.
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay.
So another source you gave me.
Yes, talked about theconnection between our mindset.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
And our ability to influence others.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
That's an important one.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, and it basically said that our beliefs
about ourselves.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
And our abilities can impact how persuasive we are.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And I've noticed that in my own life.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Like when I feel confident, I'm way more
persuasive.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
But when I'm feeling like Insecure.
Insecure.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, it's a lot harder to get your message
across.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
It is, it is.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
That's because our inner state is reflected in our
outward behavior.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
You know when we believe in ourselves?
Yeah, it shows.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
It does.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
In our body language, our tone of voice yeah.
Our overall demeanor.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
So it's not about just like.
Faking it, faking it till youmake it Till you make it.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
No, it has to be genuine.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It does.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, you have to cultivate genuine self-belief.
Okay, so how do we do that?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Well, the source offers some practical tips for
building self-confidence.
Okay, like setting realisticgoals.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Celebrating your accomplishments.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
And surrounding yourself with supportive people.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, so it's like creating this positive feedback
loop.
Yes, that reinforces that senseof self-worth, exactly, and
then that allows us to show upmore confidently.
With greater confidence andinfluence, and the source also
talked about resilience.
Ah, resilience it was thatability to bounce back from
setbacks yes, Because the pathto success is rarely smooth.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Very rarely, right.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yes, there are always going to be setbacks.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
It's about how you handle those setbacks.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
So it's not about avoiding failure.
No, it's about.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It's about developing the mental and emotional
fortitude to persevere throughdifficult times and come out
stronger on the other side.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I like that.
Yeah, because we're all goingto challenge us.
We are.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
It's part of life, but it's how we respond Exactly
that determines whether wesucceed or fail.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah Wow, this has been quite the journey.
It has been a fail.
Yeah Wow, this has been quitethe journey.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
It has been a journey .
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
From like the dark arts of manipulation.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
To like these empowering principles of ethical
persuasion.
Yeah, we talked aboutpersonality types.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
We have.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Body language storytelling.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
The whole shebang.
Yeah, the whole shebang.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, psychology of cults.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, self-esteem no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Importantly yes to build that self-awareness that's
so important emotionalintelligence as the foundation
yeah.
Authentic and fulfillingrelationship yes, absolutely so
knowledge is power.
It is.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
But it's how we choose to use that power Exactly
that truly matters.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
So go forth and use these insights wisely.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yes, ethically, ethically.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
And always with the intention.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Of creating a more positive and empowering world.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I love that.
That's a great place to end it.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I think so too.
All right Well.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
An empowering world.
I love that.
That's a great place to end it.
I think so too.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
All right, well thanks so much for joining me on
this deep dive.
This has been fun.
Yeah, it has.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
All right, we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
See you later.
All right, so are you ready to dive into this?
Today, we're going to belooking at persuasion and
manipulation.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
And you gave me some really, really interesting
sources for this one.
We've got classic psychology,we've got body language secrets,
we've even got some NLP stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's a lot.
Yeah, it's a lot.
We're going to be busy.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We're going to be busy.
Yeah, it's like we're trying todecode human behavior yeah
trying to figure out what makespeople tick.
I like that yeah, and how allof those hidden motivations can
be used to influence them forbetter or for worse, right, yeah
, for good or for evil, exactlyright.
So our goal today is to kind ofgive everyone listening the
(00:41):
knowledge to spot thosemanipulation tactics.
But we don't want to stop there.
Yeah, we're also gonna look athow we can use this ethically,
yes, to become more persuasiveourselves because who doesn't
want a little more influence,right?
I mean, yeah, wouldn't that benice?
A little bit, yeah, a littlebit so influence is a powerful
cool.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It is for sure it is, and I think that's why it's so
important to understand thedarker side of it as well.
You know the manipulationtactics and the personality
types that can be used againstus.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
That's why one of the sources that you shared,
Manipulation and Dark Psychology.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It introduces this idea of the dark triad.
Have you heard of that?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I have heard of the dark triad.
Yes, Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's a little scary.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, it is, it's.
I mean, it's like narcissism,machiavellianism and and
psychopathy, psychopathy.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And these traits can be pretty alarming.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Especially when they're used to manipulate and
exploit others.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, it's a little unnerving to think about.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
It is a bit unsettling.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Like how these could be used against us.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, you know, yeah, out in the world.
Yeah, I mean you're right.
It is unsettling, but you haveto keep in mind that these
traits exist on a spectrum.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
We all have them to some degree.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's when they become dominant and are intentionally
used to harm others that theybecome truly dangerous.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So it's not just about having these traits, no.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's about the intent behind them, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Okay, that makes me feel a bit better.
Yeah, can you give us someexamples of how these dark triad
traits might show up like inreal life manipulation?
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Let's say you're dealing with acoworker who's constantly
trying to take credit for yourideas or belittling your
contributions.
You've never had that right,never, never.
That could be had.
That right, never, never.
That could be a sign ofnarcissism.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
A need to feel superior and inflate their own
ego at your expense.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Okay, so they're putting you down to build
themselves up.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay.
Classic office power move right, it is, it is.
Yeah, what aboutMachiavellianism?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Ah, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
How does that play out differently?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, someone who is high in Machiavellianism is a
lot more strategic andcalculated in their manipulation
.
They might use charm andflattery to gain your trust.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Only to use that trust later to manipulate you
into doing something thatbenefits them.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Oh, so you think that you have like a friend.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Right or something yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But they're actually just using you.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Exactly.
You have like a friend right orsomething, yeah, but they're
actually just using you.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Exactly it's about coldly using others as pawns wow
to achieve their own goalsthat's chilling it's a little
bit scary, isn't it yeah?
So it's less about emotionaloutbursts and more about
carefully crafted schemes.
Yeah, I see yeah,machiavellianism.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Okay, that's the one to watch out for.
I'm watching out, be careful.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I am.
So the book also dives intosome specific Manipulation
tactics.
Yes, things like Traumatic onetrial learning.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Which sounds especially scary.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
That one is a powerful and often disturbing
technique.
Okay, so Imagine.
Okay, good, what is it?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You have a boss, okay , and they publicly humiliate an
employee for a minor mistake.
The impact of that is so strongthat everyone else in the
office is now terrified ofmaking even the slightest error.
Wow, that single traumaticexperience has effectively
controlled everyone's behavior.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
So it's like a psychological shock tactic that
creates a lasting impact.
Exactly, that's behavior.
So it's like a psychologicalshock tactic.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
That creates a lasting impact.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Exactly, that's terrifying.
It can be, yeah, but it alsomakes these concepts more real
and relatable, right.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Well, it does.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, because you just when you hear a story.
Yeah, exactly it becomes a lotmore real.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
You can imagine it happening.
It makes you think, oh, I'veseen that.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yes, for sure I've seen that happen?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
I think we all have.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
The source also discusses positive and negative
reinforcement as manipulationtactics.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Okay, so those are kind of like basic learning
principles, right yeah, rightLike when you're training a dog.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
But they can be applied to people as well.
Really, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Think of it this way An abusive partner who showers
their victim with gifts andaffection after an episode of
violence.
That's positive reinforcementdesigned to keep the victim
trapped in the cycle of abuse.
Oh wow, they associate the goodtimes with the bad, making it
harder to break free.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Oh, that's so sad.
It's heartbreaking yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
And it really shows how these seemingly simple
concepts can be twisted and usedto exploit people.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, and that one is an example where it's not so
obvious.
Right, right, yeah, exactlyBecause you think, oh, that's
nice, that they're being sosweet and giving gifts.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, you would think that.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
But really it's like this terrible cycle.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, and I think a lot of manipulation operates on
that very subtle level.
Okay, you know, the manipulatormight not even be consciously
aware of what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Oh, so it's not like some evil mastermind.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
No, not always.
Okay, it can be more like apattern of behavior that's
become ingrained over time.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So almost like they've been conditioned in a
way Right Themselves.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And that's why awareness is so crucial.
Yeah, the more we understandthese patterns.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
OK.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
The better equipped we are to recognize them in
ourselves and others.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Now, you also mentioned priming theory as a
potential manipulation tactic.
Ah that one really intrigues me.
I don't know if I fully graspit.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
OK, yeah, can you?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
explain a little more .
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Priming theory is really fascinating because it
shows how subtle cues caninfluence our thoughts and
behaviors without us evenrealizing it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
So it's almost like subliminal messaging.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It's kind of like that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Imagine you're a marketer trying to sell a new
energy drink.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Okay drink.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Okay, you could subtly prime consumers by
placing images of athletes andfitness enthusiasts throughout
your advertising campaign.
Even if they don't consciouslyregister these images, they
might unconsciously associateyour drink with athleticism and
performance, making them morelikely to buy it.
So you're planting these seedsin people's minds that influence
(06:44):
their decisions, without themeven being aware of it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Wow, that's.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Pretty powerful stuff .
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, and a little unsettling.
It is.
It's kind of scary actually.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It is.
It raises some interestingethical questions.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
About how these techniques are used.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, because people don't even know Right.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
That Right.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
That they're being influenced.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
They can't really defend against it Right, exactly
.
Yeah, it's like that, sayingwith great power.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Comes great responsibility.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Comes great responsibility.
Yeah, that's exactly what I wassaying.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Exactly, and as we delve deeper into this world of
persuasion and manipulation,it's important to keep that
responsibility in mind For sure.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Okay, so let's take a break.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Okay, and then?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
when we come back, we'll talk about.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
How to use all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, how to use it ethically For good To get what
we want.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
All right, we'll be back in a minute.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Sounds good.
It's like we're holding thismagnifying glass up to human
behavior.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Examining these intricate workings.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Of influence and persuasion.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Okay, so we've looked at the dark side.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
All the manipulation tactics.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
The personality types that can be used against us.
But what about flipping thescript?
Okay, how can we use thisknowledge?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
To become more persuasive ourselves.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
That is the question, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
It is yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
That's where it gets really interesting.
One of the sources that youshared Principles of Persuasion
outlines some fascinatingtechniques that can be used to
influence others in a positiveway.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Okay, I like that.
Yeah, Ethically.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Ethically?
Yes.
For example, there's theprinciple of reciprocity, okay,
the idea that people are morelikely to do something for you
if you've done something forthem first.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
So you're creating a sense of obligation, exactly
Like if I give you a gift, youfeel like you need to give me a
gift back.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, it's a deeply ingrained social norm.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Think about those free samples at the grocery
store.
They're not just being generous, they're subtly leveraging that
principle of reciprocity tomake you more likely to buy the
product.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I never thought about it that way.
But yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I've definitely fallen for that one before.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I know me too Like those little orange chicken
samples at the mall.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
It gets you every time.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Every time, and then I feel bad if I don't buy
something.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
You kind of got to buy something.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I do Yep.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
And then there's the principle of scarcity.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Things seem more desirable when they're in
limited supply.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Okay, yeah, so it's that limited time offer.
Exactly that makes you feellike you got to act now.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Or you can miss out.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, the classic FOMO.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
The FOMO.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Fear of missing out.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Fear of missing out.
Marketers are masters at thatone.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Oh, they are masters of that.
Yeah, it really taps into thatprimal instinct to secure
resources.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
You know, even if we don't logically need the product
.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
The idea that it might become unavailable makes
us want it more.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Oh, so it's like that sense of urgency that kind of
like bypasses our rationaldecision making process Exactly.
Wow, these are some powerfultechniques.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
They are.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
But how do we use them ethically?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Ah, that's the question, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It is because it feels kind of manipulative.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
It does.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
If we're intentionally trying to trigger
these psychological responses.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
It's a valid concern.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think the key is to use these principles in a way
that's authentic.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
And transparent.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Okay, you know, so don't be sneaky about it.
Yeah, don't be sneaky Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
For example, instead of using scarcity to create
artificial pressure, you canhighlight the unique benefits of
your product or service.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Right.
So really focus on the genuinevalue yeah.
Not just trying to create FOMO.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Right, just really highlight what makes it special
and why people would genuinelybenefit from it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I like that.
What about social proof?
Ah yes, I heard that that's areally powerful one.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Social proof is the idea that we're more likely to
do something if we see otherpeople doing it.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
It's like that feeling of well, if everyone
else is doing it, it must begood, right, right?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
It must be okay.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Think about online reviews.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
If a product has hundreds of five star reviews.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I'm more likely to buy it.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, you're more likely to trust it and buy it
yourself.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, I look at those all the time.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
We all do.
Yeah, we're social creatures.
You know we look to others forcues on how to behave especially
when we're not sure especiallywhen we're uncertain.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Is this a good product?
I don't know Right.
Let me see what other peoplethink.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Let's see what the reviews say.
Product I don't know Right.
Let me see what other peoplethink.
Let's see what the reviews say.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, and marketers know this.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Oh yeah, that's why influencer marketing is so
effective.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Oh yeah, they're leveraging the principle of
social proof.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, they get someone that you already like.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yes, and trust Exactly To tell you to buy
something.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
To endorse a product.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
It works, it works yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So it's all about creating that sense of trust and
validation.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It is yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
And when it comes to ethical persuasion, ok, social
proof can be a really powerfultool.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
OK.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
For showcasing the positive impact of your product
or service.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
So how would you do that?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Well, you could share testimonials.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
OK.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
From satisfied customers.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
You could highlight positive media coverage Okay,
you know or showcase how yourwork is making a difference in
the world.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Okay, so it's not just about blindly following the
crowd.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
No, it's about.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
It's about using social proof to build
credibility Okay, and trust.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I like that.
So instead of trying tomanufacture that, yes, you're
actually showing real results.
Real results yeah that you'reactually showing real results,
real results.
Yeah, I like that.
Now, another key principle thatemerges from several of the
sources is the importance ofempathy in persuasion.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So can you explain a little bit more about that?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Sure Empathy is really about understanding the
other person's perspective,their needs and their
motivations.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So the more that you understand your audience, the
better you can kind of tailoryour message to resonate with
them.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yes, and this also ties into the concept of active
listening.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
You know, it's not just about waiting for your turn
to speak.
It's about genuinely engagingwith what the other person is
saying.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Asking, clarifying questions and reflecting back
their thoughts and feelings.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
So it's really about creating a dialogue.
Yeah, a space for genuineconnection.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
And understand, and that's where body language comes
in again.
Ah yes, bod One of the sourceshighlights the five C's of body
language.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Context clusters congruence, consistency and
culture.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Wow, that's a lot of Cs.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
It is a lot of Cs, but I think if we break it down
it'll be easier to understand.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So context seems pretty straightforward.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You have to consider the situation, environment when
you're interpreting bodylanguage cues.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Exactly A clenched fist might mean anger in one
context, but excitement inanother.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, or like a yawn.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Could mean you're bored, or it could mean you're
tired.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Exactly, yeah, it depends.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
It does.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Okay, and then clusters.
Yes, we've talked about thisbefore, but it's about looking
for multiple signals.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Not just isolated gestures.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
So if someone is avoiding eye contact, but their
body is relaxed, yeah.
And they sound friendly.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
They're probably just shy.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, probably Not deceptive Okay.
And then there's congruence.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
It's about making sure your body language aligns
with your words.
Oh, fantastic If you're sayingyes, but shaking your head no.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
You're sending mixed signals.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, and that can be really confusing it can create
confusion and distrust.
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And then consistency.
That's about looking forpatterns in someone's behavior
over time.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
So if they're usually really outgoing and then all of
a sudden they're withdrawn,something might be up.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Something's going on.
Yeah, it could be a sign ofstress, deception or just a
change in mood.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Oh, okay, so it doesn't necessarily mean
anything bad.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
No, not necessarily it's just something to be aware
of.
And finally, culture.
We have to be aware thatdifferent cultures have
different norms for bodylanguage.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
What's considered polite in one culture could be
rude in another.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Exactly, yeah, okay, so we have to be mindful of
cultural differences when we'reinterpreting those nonverbal
cues.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
That's a good point.
Okay, so those five C's are areally good framework for
understanding the complexitiesof body language.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Absolutely.
They really highlight how muchmore there is to communication
than just the words we speak,our tone of voice, our posture,
our facial expressions.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
All of it.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It all plays a role in conveying meaning.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And that's why self-awareness is so crucial.
It is.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
We have to be mindful of the signals that we're
sending, both verbally andnon-verbally.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Absolutely.
Okay so this has been a lot ofinformation.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I know.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
To digest.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It is.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
So we're going to take a little break.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
And then when we come back, yes.
We're going to dive into evenmore.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Specific techniques.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I know me too.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
For ethical persuasion.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Can't wait.
All right, we'll be back in aimportant to remember that
manipulation can take many formsfrom those subtle psychological
tactics to outright coercion.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So we've looked at the dark side all those
manipulation tactics, thepersonality types, even the
psychology of cults.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
It's been a lot.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
It has been a lot yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
But now I'm really eager to shift gears and talk
about how we can use thisknowledge to become more
persuasive ourselves.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I like it Ethically, of course.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Of course ethically.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Because you know there are ways to use this stuff
that aren't so good.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But we want to focus on the good.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
The good stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yes, the good stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Okay, so one of the sources that you gave me dives
into the power of framing.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Oh yes, framing In persuasion, framing is so
powerful.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, it's basically about how the way we present
information can influencepeople's perceptions and
decisions.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
It really can.
Yeah, it can completely changehow people see things.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Like I've heard about this a lot with political
campaigns.
Oh yeah, how?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
people see things.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Like I've heard about this a lot with political
campaigns, oh yeah, when youknow a candidate can spin a
negative issue into a positiveone just by choosing the right
words.
Exactly, it's all about usinglanguage to evoke a specific
emotional response.
Okay, or reinforce a particularperspective.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Okay, you know.
So instead of saying like thisproduct is expensive.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Right, you could say this product is an investment.
Exactly, you're highlightingthe value the long-term benefits
right, rather than focusing onthat upfront cost see, I see.
So the source gives a lot ofdifferent examples yes, it does
how framing is used in likemarketing advertising everyday
conversations, even to shape ourperceptions and influence our
choices.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So it's like we're all living in this.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It is a little bit Matrix of carefully crafted
narratives.
Yeah, it's a powerful concept,isn't it?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, it is, it is, and so the more we understand
the power of framing yes, thebetter we can critically
evaluate information.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And make our own choices.
So it's not just about beingpersuasive ourselves, but it's
about being smart consumers ofinformation and recognizing when
other people are trying tomanipulate us.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That's right.
Don't let them get away with it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Don't let them.
Okay Now, another source thatyou gave me talked about
nonverbal communication,specifically in the context of
persuasion.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Body language.
It can be just Another sourcethat you gave me.
Talked about nonverbalcommunication.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Specifically in the context of persuasion.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Body language.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
It can be just as influential as our words.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I've definitely noticed that.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, I think we all have.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Sometimes you can just sense someone's sincerity
or lack thereof.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Just from their body language.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Even if their words are saying something different
Totally from their body language, even if their words are saying
something different Totally.
That's because our nonverbalcues, our posture, our gestures,
our facial expressions.
They often convey our truefeelings and intentions, even
when we're trying to mask them.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
So how can we use body language?
That is the question To ouradvantage when we're trying to
be persuasive.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Well, the source suggests that the key is
congruence.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Making sure our nonverbal cues are aligned with
our verbal message.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Okay, so like if I'm trying to convey confidence.
Yes, I need to have goodposture.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yes, stand up straight.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Shoulders back.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Shoulders back.
Make eye contact.
Eye contact Okay, yes.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So it's not just about saying the right words.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
It's about embodying, yes, the message.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Embodying the message .
I like that.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And the source also highlights the importance of
mirroring.
Ah yes, Fuddly matching theother person's body language to
create that sense of connectionand rapport.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
We talked about that a little bit with NLP.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
We did.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
It's kind of like creating that subconscious sense
of harmony, harmony andunderstanding.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And when it comes to persuasion, I can make all the
difference.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It can.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Because when we feel like someone is on the same
wavelength as us, we'renaturally more inclined to trust
them and be open to theirmessage.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
So if they're leaning forward, yes.
I should lean forward a littlebit Subtly.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You don't want to be too obvious.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
But just a little bit .
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
And if they're speaking softly, you might lower
your voice slightly.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Okay, so just kind of match their energy.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, match their energy.
But, do it genuinely.
Don't be fake.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It's not about being fake.
It's about creating a space fora deeper connection.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Okay, so I'm curious about touch.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yes, touch.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Because I've heard that a well-placed touch can
create a sense of intimacy andtrust.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It can, but it's also a very delicate area.
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
You have to be very mindful of social norms and
personal boundaries.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You can't just go around touching everyone.
No, you can't, so what's okayand what's not okay.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Well, a light touch on the arm or shoulder can
convey warmth and connection.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
But anything more intimate could be perceived as
inappropriate or eventhreatening.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, so it's really about.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It's about using touch judiciously and
respectfully.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And always being attuned to the other person's
nonverbal cues.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Right, because if they're like recoiling, yeah,
exactly, you need to back off.
Yeah, yeah, step back, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Okay, right, because if they're like recoiling.
Yeah exactly you need to backoff.
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay.
So another source you gave me.
Yes, talked about theconnection between our mindset.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
And our ability to influence others.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
That's an important one.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, and it basically said that our beliefs
about ourselves.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
And our abilities can impact how persuasive we are.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And I've noticed that in my own life.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Like when I feel confident, I'm way more
persuasive.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
But when I'm feeling like Insecure.
Insecure.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, it's a lot harder to get your message
across.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
It is, it is.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
That's because our inner state is reflected in our
outward behavior.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
You know when we believe in ourselves?
Yeah, it shows.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
It does.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
In our body language, our tone of voice yeah.
Our overall demeanor.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
So it's not about just like.
Faking it, faking it till youmake it Till you make it.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
No, it has to be genuine.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It does.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, you have to cultivate genuine self-belief.
Okay, so how do we do that?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Well, the source offers some practical tips for
building self-confidence.
Okay, like setting realisticgoals.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Celebrating your accomplishments.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
And surrounding yourself with supportive people.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, so it's like creating this positive feedback
loop.
Yes, that reinforces that senseof self-worth, exactly, and
then that allows us to show upmore confidently.
With greater confidence andinfluence, and the source also
talked about resilience.
Ah, resilience it was thatability to bounce back from
setbacks yes, Because the pathto success is rarely smooth.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Very rarely, right.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yes, there are always going to be setbacks.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
It's about how you handle those setbacks.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
So it's not about avoiding failure.
No, it's about.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It's about developing the mental and emotional
fortitude to persevere throughdifficult times and come out
stronger on the other side.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I like that.
Yeah, because we're all goingto challenge us.
We are.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
It's part of life, but it's how we respond Exactly
that determines whether wesucceed or fail.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah Wow, this has been quite the journey.
It has been a fail.
Yeah Wow, this has been quitethe journey.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
It has been a journey .
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
From like the dark arts of manipulation.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
To like these empowering principles of ethical
persuasion.
Yeah, we talked aboutpersonality types.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
We have.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Body language storytelling.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
The whole shebang.
Yeah, the whole shebang.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, psychology of cults.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, self-esteem no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Importantly yes to build that self-awareness that's
so important emotionalintelligence as the foundation
yeah.
Authentic and fulfillingrelationship yes, absolutely so
knowledge is power.
It is.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
But it's how we choose to use that power Exactly
that truly matters.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
So go forth and use these insights wisely.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yes, ethically, ethically.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
And always with the intention.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Of creating a more positive and empowering world.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I love that.
That's a great place to end it.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I think so too.
All right Well.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
An empowering world.
I love that.
That's a great place to end it.
I think so too.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
All right, well thanks so much for joining me on
this deep dive.
This has been fun.
Yeah, it has.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
All right, we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
See you later.
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