January 14, 2025 • 41 mins
Author Alison Sant joins us to discuss the transformations needed in urban settings to combat climate change and systemic racism. Her book, "From the Ground Up: Local Efforts to Create Resilient Cities," serves as a lens through which we examine the impact of historical policies that have shaped today's urban landscapes. Together, we reveal how cities like New Orleans and Baltimore are grappling with these issues and the ways local, community-led efforts are paving the path toward resilience and equity.
Show Notes:
- Further Reading: Inclusive Transportation by Veronica Davis, The Power Broker by Robert Caro (50th Anniversary of the Book), The Movement by Clara Bingham
- Alison contributed a few articles to Island Press’s last Resilience Matters compilation. Check is out at https://islandpress.org/resilience-matters-download
- Check out more from Alison at https://alisonsant.com/
- To help support the show, pick up a copy of the book through our Amazon Affiliates page at https://amzn.to/4gpYbHO or even better, get a copy through your local bookstore! You can also purchase through the publisher Island Press and use the discount code Ground.
To view the show transcripts, click on the episode at https://bookedonplanning.buzzsprout.com/
JEO Consulting GroupJEO is a full-service firm offering engineering, architecture, surveying & planning in the Midwest.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
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Episode Transcript
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Stephanie (00:00):
This episode is brought to you by JEO Consulting
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You're listening to the BookedOn Planning podcast, a project
(00:47):
of the Nebraska chapter of theAmerican Planning Association.
In each episode we dive intohow cities function by talking
with authors on housing,transportation and everything in
between.
Join us as we get.
Welcome back Bookworms toanother episode of Booked on
(01:12):
Planning.
In today's episode we talk withauthor Allison Sant on her book
From the Ground Up LocalEfforts to Create Resilient
Cities.
This book came at the perfecttime for me, as I was working on
an application for a large EPAgrant, and the programs
discussed and the supportingevidence in the book was so
helpful.
Jennifer (01:29):
Alison did such a great job of finding inspiring
case studies that prove howimportant it is to listen to
grassroots groups and supportthem when they bring great ideas
to the table.
Some of the best planning ideas, like parking day, have come
from a small group of localorganizers.
Stephanie (01:43):
Alison's book, set up with action language as chapter
titles like Plant the City orTear Up Concrete, has a wealth
of program ideas, from smallneighborhood scale to citywide
programs that have the potentialto make real environmental
impacts, with programs like theMillion Tree Goals or programs
that have added benefits beyondthe environment to also create
jobs.
Jennifer (02:02):
I was especially interested in the programs that
helped employ those members ofour community who have
experienced incarceration.
They honored those people'sskills and experience by
employing them as neighborhoodsafety leaders.
I just thought that was reallycool.
So let's get into ourconversation with author Allison
Sant on her book From theGround Up Local Efforts to
Create Resilient Cities.
Stephanie (02:23):
Alison, thank you for joining us on Booked on
Planning to talk about your bookFrom the Ground Up Local
Efforts to Create ResilientCities.
In your book you break up thesections into reclaiming the
streets, tear up the concrete,plant the city and adapt the
shoreline, with case studiesfrom cities showing how this
work can be accomplished bylocal communities.
What are some of the commonthemes that stuck out to you for
(02:46):
the cities that are mostsuccessful in these types of
efforts?
Alison (02:49):
Well, first of all, I just wanted to thank you both
for having me it's really apleasure to get to speak with
both of you and also to yourlisteners and this wonderful
podcast that you've created.
So thank you.
So you're right.
So the book is broken into fourparts and really, when I was
crafting that, I was thinkingabout each one being called to
action.
You know, reclaim the streets,tear up the concrete, plant the
(03:09):
city and adapt the shoreline,sort of with my fist in the air.
And but what's amazing is thatwhen I was doing the research
for the book, there really wererecurrent themes that came up
repeatedly in conversations Ihad with, you know, over 90
people in writing the book.
And so, as I was reflecting onmy research and, you know,
writing the final drafts, Iboiled it down to kind of four
(03:32):
main points the first andprobably the one that I started
with, though the intention ofthe book kind of grew over time.
But you know, climate change isurgent and we're all trying to
find ways to address it, and Ireally came away feeling that
cities are the place to act.
Cities are responsible for 75%of global carbon emissions and
(03:52):
they also happen to be theplaces that we all live.
The majority of the world'spopulation is in urban places,
so what we do in cities reallymatters.
For example, when we reclaimour streets from cars to create
safe places to walk and bike andmore efficient public transit
for everyone, we lower carbonemissions while creating greater
(04:13):
equity.
And then you know over time.
Really, as I interviewed peopleand understood the American
landscape in a differentdimension, the second point
became for me that systemicracism has shaped the American
urban landscape fundamentally.
And you know, due todiscriminatory policies like
redlining and restrictivecovenants, race is too often
(04:36):
correlated with where peoplelive in cities, what elevations
they live at, what temperaturesthey're exposed to and what
resources they have in times ofemergency, and so, as a result,
climate changedisproportionately affects
under-resourced communities andcommunities of color.
New Orleans is a reallystunning example for me in the
book and you know, as the citygrew, discriminatory development
(04:58):
policies really condensed itsBlack population in the lower
elevations of the city, and thishad horrifying effects during
Hurricane Katrina, when NewOrleans' Black population made
up something like 70, almost 80%, 76% of its flood victims.
And then, in cities likeBaltimore, you know, you can
have an affluent neighborhoodthat has something like 50% tree
(05:19):
canopy cover, but in EastBaltimore's redline
neighborhoods it can be aslittle as 6%.
So that means that on a hot day, there's about 16 degree
difference between two parts ofthe same city.
So these realities are reallyendemic to so many aspects of
the built environment, and thosecities that are creating
greater equity while alsoaddressing climate change are
(05:40):
really creating the best modelsfor resiliency.
And then, third, you know fromand this was also interesting
that everything from creatingbikeways and neighborhood parks
to contemplating managed retreat.
Really, the most effectivesolutions are born out of the
communities they serve.
Solutions that are led bylocals can address their actual
needs, and not only that, butthey help remedy the history of
(06:02):
injustice by putting people incommunities in positions to
really lead the change ahead,and this can ultimately lead to
more inventive solutions, Ithink, as diverse communities
and their experiences arebrought to bear on some of our
most pressing problems.
We really need a lot of goodideas to face the challenges
ahead, ahead.
(06:26):
And then, you know, finally andthis is kind of core to my own
practice but also seemed tobubble up in so many places is
that small experiments, howeversmall, they can ultimately lead
to really large scale changes.
And a close example in the bookthat I mentioned, even in the
forward, is the example ofparking day, which began in 2005
.
And it created a park out of aparking space, and this one day
event eventually created SanFrancisco's official parklet
(06:49):
program and I think by 2019,there were something like 80
official parklets across thecity and everyone was patting
themselves on the back.
But during the pandemic that, itjust exploded.
Right, they were everywhere.
They just multiplied across thecity as we needed places to,
you know, go to school or shopor eat out, and that all
happened in the space of thestreet.
(07:09):
And then today I was looking atthe stats recently there's over
2,000 shared spaces, you know,and those spaces are not just in
San Francisco, you know,they're all over the world.
So you know what happened as aone-day experiment on a parking
spot has developed into a set oftools for really reusing the
public right of way.
So you know, really togetherall of those, those four themes
are really woven into thestories of hope and change that
(07:32):
I illustrate in From the GroundUp.
Jennifer (07:34):
And as I was reading it, you know, I think planners
could absolutely benefit fromthis book, but the audience
seemed to be somewhat wider thanjust the profession.
So, as you were writing thebook, who actually were you
thinking about as your primaryaudience?
Alison (07:48):
I wanted From the Ground Up, to be accessible to a
general audience.
You know, when you pick up thebook and you sum through it,
you'll notice that.
You know you can easily flipthrough all of these
illustrations that give you animmediate sense of the content
of the book.
And they were all drawn byPackard Jennings based on
research that we did also withRobert Ungar.
And all of those illustrationsare not only provocative but
(08:10):
they illustrate a lot of themain points of the book and a
lot of the case studies in them.
And I thought a lot about howalso the book could serve people
organizing in their communitieswho really champion similar
projects to the ones I featurein the book in the places that
they live, and I hoped thatlearning about these examples
around the country helps tofortify their efforts.
(08:32):
And then as you point out, itwas also important to me to
inform the profession, sharingbest practices with planners and
urbanists, advocacy groups,government officials, designers,
so that they can really learnfrom the efforts of communities
throughout the United States.
I mean, I think a lot of timeswe get embedded in our work and
we don't have a chance to lookup and kind of see the full
breadth of who's working across.
(08:53):
You know the country, much lessthe world, so that was really
of interest to me as well.
And then I'm also a teacher, soI wrote this to engage the next
generation of practitioners whoare working in the fields of
sustainability and urbanism andactivism, who are really eager
to learn about how this work canbe effective and equitable and,
ultimately, how it can changecities.
Stephanie (09:13):
Well, reading your book actually came at a perfect
time for us because I justfinished reading it and then we
had started work on a grantapplication through the EPA
Environmental and ClimateJustice Community Change Grant.
And there were so many timeswhere I was flipping through,
pulling little facts out,modeling some of the programs.
When I was in Minneapolis I waspart of the Master Water
Steward Program and youreference.
I can't remember which city hada similar program.
(09:35):
I think it was down in Georgia.
Alison (09:58):
But you had referenced a similar type of master water
steward program, I was like, oh,that would be perfect for this
grant.
So it was well-timed, not onlyat coastal adaptation but there
are watersheds statewide and howto address water issues and
also move people, quite honestly, from lower and places that are
in flood zones to higher anddrier places, intensifying
cities to be able to acceptthose populations.
But it's great to hear that thebook's applicable.
Stephanie (10:12):
So there's often a disconnect between local
governments and community-basedorganizations that are on the
ground doing this type of work.
How can local officials do abetter job of connecting with
local organizations toaccomplish the necessary work of
becoming more resilient cities?
Alison (10:27):
Yeah, I mean local people and organizations.
They bring often overlookedexpertise, and it's really
important to create processesthat engage their knowledge in a
number of ways.
You know, what I heard mostoften from the people I
interviewed was meet peoplewhere they are, and you know
that can be street fairs orcommunity gatherings or riding
(10:48):
transit.
The people need to becompensated adequately for their
time.
If child care or meals areoffered at a community meeting,
it's a lot easier for morepeople to attend, or if they fit
their schedules or there'smultiple ways of participating.
And then if people arecontributing over long periods
of time, it's really importantthat they're compensated for
their expertise and given moneyto make sure that they can
(11:12):
remain engaged in the process.
And then you know it's reallyimportant to listen, engaged in
the process, and then you knowit's really important to listen.
People can recommend and offerthings, but they need to be
listened to when they do that,and that work needs to be taken
seriously.
I think that ultimately, too,it's providing avenues for local
leadership, so that people withlived experience of
transportation, inequalities andall of the other kinds of
(11:35):
inequalities that exist incities are really working in
government agencies and designfirms and you know all kinds of
places, so that their livedexperience is actually part of
the way in which we areaddressing these issues.
And I'll give you an example ofone that I found really
inspiring.
And I actually live in New YorkCity right now, so this is very
close to home.
But you both may know that NewYork City has one of the best
(11:57):
public transit systems in thecountry and it's like a city
where a majority of people donot own cars, and that transit
also includes having the largestbike share in the country, so
making transit accessible isactually a really important
thing in this city.
As I said, that includes bikeshare, which we don't always
associate with public transit,but really is an aspect of
public transit here and, I think, in many other cities as those
(12:20):
networks grow.
So I covered a neighborhood inBrooklyn called
Bedford-Stuyvesant, and CityBike, which is the bike share
system here, had installed bikeshare systems in Bed-Stuy but
many of the residents didn'tride them.
The majority of theneighborhood's residents are
black people and many of themhave household incomes below the
citywide median.
And so, you know, due to thecosts of riding bike share and
(12:44):
the racial profiling associatedwith it and the perception that
these programs are really just atool of gentrification and
displacement and not necessarilyfor long term residents, you
know the program had not been asuccess.
That was until the BedfordStuyvesant Restoration, which is
a community developmentcorporation in Brooklyn, led a
group called the New York CityBetter Bike Share Partnership
(13:06):
and together the partnershipshaped a bike share system in
the neighborhood to reflect theneeds of the community.
You know it was affordable, itcreated job opportunities, it
created opportunities for localleadership and they organized
all kinds of events like helmetgiveaways and bike safety
lessons, neighborhood rides andyouth from the neighborhood were
hired to survey residents.
(13:27):
They were ambassadors and theysurveyed people where they lived
and they understood what theyneeded, and some of those young
people actually went on to laterget jobs for the New York DOT,
which is exciting.
There was other examples, likedoctors in local hospitals
prescribed bike sharememberships to encourage active
transportation, understandingthat it was a part of becoming
healthy.
(13:47):
Local employers purchasedsubsidized memberships and SNAP
recipients were also givendiscounts.
And then restoration met withlocal precincts to address
racial profiling and really makeit safer for people to ride if
they were people of color.
So in just one year membershipincreased 56%, which is more
than it did citywide.
(14:08):
So Bed-Stuy is just one of theexamples in the book that
illustrates that when residentsare involved in generating
solutions, they can really makeinvestments in their
neighborhoods representative oftheir communities and relevant
to their needs and ultimatelyjust more effective.
Jennifer (14:22):
I have a friend who moved to Bed-Stuy last year and
so I shared the story with her.
I was like, oh, did you knowthat you guys didn't always have
bike share?
And she's like I can't evenimagine Bed-Stuy without bike
share.
She takes a bike every day togo down to the subway stop and
she's like why wouldn't we haveever had that?
Alison (14:39):
Yeah, it's amazing, you know, I think so many bike
shares started in kind of thehearts of cities and didn't
always, you know, serve.
I mean in New York City, allthe boroughs for sure, and you
see that in a lot of systemswhere they kind of prioritize
the main business district andnot necessarily the places where
a lot of people live and reallyneed to rely on that,
(14:59):
especially if they're not wellserved by public transit.
Jennifer (15:02):
Yeah, omaha, which is Nebraska's largest city, is
putting in a streetcar and themain criticism that it's been
facing is that it's really onlygoing to shuttle tourists from
downtown to midtown and back andthat's not really where it
needs to be to help people.
But you do also have to proveproof of concept right and show
(15:23):
that things can work.
So it's an interesting balance.
Alison (15:25):
Yeah, I haven't looked into this in the context of the
book, but one of the moreinteresting things that I'm
interested in researching moreis how bus networks can perform
that, because they're a lot moreflexible.
So you can try things, and Iknow Houston has had some great
examples of this and there'ssome degree to which that's been
attempted here in New York City, where the SBS system was tried
(15:46):
on 14th Street and has beenwildly successful, and so now
that will be taken into otherboroughs.
But it certainly is one way ofscaling up a transit network on
the cheap, as long as you canhave operators and also streets
that serve those buses, so thatthey can actually get around and
not just be stuck in traffic.
Jennifer (16:06):
It's fair.
And also, you know the firstbook you write but gets the
second book you write right.
Alison (16:10):
Exactly.
Jennifer (16:13):
So, as you mentioned, maybe it's just that I haven't
been able to pull my head backfrom the work that I had to put
my nose to the grind on, butwe've talked a lot about
redlining in past episodes, butyou presented a phrase that I
hadn't yet heard of from DrDestiny Thomas, which was purple
lining, so can you explain thisterm in case others haven't
been able to pull their heads uplately either and discuss how
(16:33):
it's negatively impacting how westill, to this day, design our
cities?
Alison (16:39):
Yeah, so purple lining was a term coined by cultural
anthropologist and planner, drDestiny Thomas, as really an
analog to redlining, and theterm came out of the 2020
shelter in place circumstancesin Oakland, california, which is
one of the first cities in thecountry to begin closing its
streets to traffic, and the cityprioritized routes in
(17:01):
under-resourced neighborhoodsfor recognizing that many of the
communities that were thehardest hit by the pandemic were
those that had the least accessto open space.
However, as a Black womanliving in Oakland, destiny
argued that, because Black andBrown communities were not
involved in the decision-makingprocess, that many residents
wondered who the streets wereactually for, and in our
(17:22):
interview, she expressed Iactually interviewed her during
the throes of the pandemic andshe expressed that she felt that
an opportunity was reallymissed to reverse the legacy of
discrimination and givecommunities greater agency in
determining their futuresespecially in a time of
emergency agency and determiningtheir futures, especially in a
time of emergency.
So when I asked her why purple,she said that it came out of her
own experiences of bias whenshe was working at the LADOT,
(17:46):
leading community engagementefforts, and she described that
her mostly white colleagueswould shade areas on the map
where black people lived usingthe color purple.
And you know, I think this kindof very personal experience, but
turning it into a terminologythat allowed people to easily
understand what that meant.
You know, she brought attentionto the reality that people were
(18:08):
affected very differently bythe pandemic.
That meant that it was evenmore important for communities
to advance their own solutionsto the crisis.
Stephanie (18:17):
So another term that you use in the book in several
chapters is community-basedplanning.
What is this and how does itdiffer from a traditional
planning approach?
Alison (18:26):
Yeah, community-based planning is about local
leadership.
So historically, manycommunities have been
intentionally left out of theplanning process and decisions
have been determined forcommunities instead of with them
Often engagement processes.
You know they can check boxesbut they don't actually promote
local decision making.
One example that came to mindis really during Hurricane
(18:48):
Katrina I was describing earlierthat you know, new Orleans'
Black population made up thishuge percentage of its flood
victims and unfortunately stormsin Louisiana and in New Orleans
are only getting worse.
New Orleans has become one ofthe wettest cities in the United
States and most of the stormsoccur in intense cloud bursts.
So that could be in an hourthere's something like five or
(19:10):
six inches of rain, so reallyreally intense storms, and that
makes green infrastructure areally essential tool in
managing stormwater.
So after Hurricane Katrina,angela Chalk, who is the
executive director of HealthyCommunity Services in the
Seventh Ward, which is a verylow-lying area, worked with a
group called Waterwise GulfSouth to really direct
(19:32):
investments to her neighborhoodand she launched a crew of
volunteers to createinfrastructure green
infrastructure in her ownbackyard and front yard and the
sidewalk.
And when the next storm hit andshe didn't flood, her neighbors
were interested in the samekinds of remedies, you know,
wanting to find out how theycould fare better.
So, really knowing herneighbors and her neighborhood,
(19:54):
she brought people together.
You know she would make homecooked meals and bring people
together in her house and sheknew everyone.
So it was easy for her to kindof plan things that people could
attend and understand theirrestrictions and what might make
a community process moreeffective.
And during those sessions shereally helped people to
understand how greeninfrastructure works and how it
(20:15):
complements the really complexsystem of, you know, levees and
pumps and canals that make NewOrleans work every day.
So now, today, the neighborhoodhas entire blocks of
demonstration projects and theSeventh Ward is part of a number
of neighborhoods that are partof the Waterwise Champions,
which is a training programwhich provides avenues to
(20:36):
employment by connecting peoplewith very local knowledge to
technical expertise about greeninfrastructure.
And then, when you know, a $141million HUD grant was awarded to
New Orleans to create theGentilly District.
They toured the Seventh Ward.
So these kinds of communityapproaches that Angela and many
of her other colleagues areleading in, neighborhoods in the
(20:58):
city are being expanded as anetwork of permeable parks and
green streets and stormwatercorridors are being created
throughout the city, andresidents are really
contributing to these projectsby sharing local knowledge, by
developing water literacy andplanning for the future of their
city.
You know, I think one of thethings that really stuck with me
is that the truth is that, whenit comes to climate change, we
(21:19):
really need to engage each otherin determining the very
difficult choices about how wewant to live in the future.
There are things that we'regoing to have to give up and
there's things that we're goingto have to decide to keep, and
that, essentially, should be ademocratic process.
So, ideally, community-basedplanning is allowing for
everyone to have a seat at thattable.
Jennifer (21:39):
It seems that often even community-led efforts for
change have faced veryfrustrating pushbacks in their
own neighborhoods, like the bikeshare program that we talked
about in Bed-Stuy.
So how did they originally gowrong, and what advice would you
provide to community activiststo avoid that kind of outcome in
the future?
Alison (21:59):
But this question is also really relevant to another
example in the book inMinneapolis, which focuses on
the North Minneapolis Greenway.
And just to give some contextto your listeners, you know
Minneapolis has some of the bestbiking infrastructure in
benefit everyone, especiallycommunities of color in
Minneapolis, and among thosecommunities are those in North
Minneapolis.
So it's a neighborhood wherethere's a majority of Black
(22:31):
residents, many of them havebeen chronically poor, and also
there's many suffer from adversehealth conditions like asthma,
and so there's high rates ofpremature death in that
neighborhood In a city with arobust biking network.
You know North Minneapolisunfortunately really lacks it
and the city came in sort ofacknowledging these inequities.
You know, in partnership withBlue Cross, they launched a
(22:52):
pilot program to create aNorthside Greenway, really
seeing biking as being part of asolution to both transit
inequity and health inequities,and they painted lanes and they
put out picnic tables and theycreated this kind of temporary
version of the NorthsideGreenway.
But you know, not allcommunities members felt
involved and, worse, some feltlike the bike lane was again the
(23:16):
sort of leading edge ofgentrification, displacement,
and there was a movement calledStop the North Minneapolis
Greenway and it ultimatelysuccessfully removed a section
of the pilot project, and Ithink this resistance reveals a
kind of justified mistrust ofgovernment processes that often
can engage communities but theydon't adequately resource
(23:38):
projects towards correctingbroader systemic inequities.
For example, you know, iftransit, access to transit had
been advanced alongside theremoval of parking so that
residents didn't have to rely asmuch on cars, that may have
been a solution that people feltlike okay, well, that's a
reasonable trade-off.
So and that was acknowledged inthe kind of final reporting
(23:58):
about it Following that, theneighborhood really came
together and they were broughttogether by two people, will
Lumpkins and Alexis Penny, whoorganize this, the Northside
Greenway now, and they're youknow, they're locals to this
neighborhood.
Both of them grew up there andthey knocked on doors and they
talked with their neighbors andthey got people together at
block parties and open streetevents and they organized
(24:19):
community rides, all towardscreating a common vision of you
know really, with the questionwhat is a Northside Greenway and
what should it look like?
And that vision has reallycontributed to people saying
that you know what they want isa greenway to connect local
businesses and cultural centers.
You know that it should createan opportunity for kids and
their families to be able towalk and bike safely to school,
(24:41):
things like that.
So as the city expands itsneighborhood greenways, I think
there's something like 50 plusmiles that are, and will be,
added to Minneapolis's network.
Will and Alexis have beenleading a successful effort to
get the Northside Greenway intothe city's budget as a priority
project.
But even today I actually justchecked this a few weeks ago its
(25:02):
construction isn't scheduled tobegin until 2028.
So when I finished the book itwas 2026.
You know, communities like that, those in North Minneapolis,
deserve those kinds ofinvestments today, and I think
this example really illustratesthat community leadership is key
to creating effective solutions.
Perhaps if the project had beenstarted with local advocacy
(25:23):
instead of kind of somethingthat people felt was imposed
upon them, it might have beenbuilt today.
So often when there's pushback,it can be because people's
needs have not been adequatelyaddressed in the process.
Stephanie (25:35):
I think that example is such a good reminder to
professionals like us that wehave the data, we know where
there was disinvestment, wherethere was redlining, where
there's things to be rectified,and we just have these ideas to
go in and fix it for them,instead of fixing it with them
and including them in theprocess to make sure it really
is something that would benefitthem and improve their
communities.
Alison (25:56):
Yeah.
Stephanie (25:56):
So you include the broad bucket of climate change.
Resilience planning, or justresilience planning, has so many
opportunities for creating jobs, especially those with criminal
backgrounds, which you have.
A couple examples of programsin the book that are really
great, and they include streetoutreach programs, tree planting
and training programs.
What has made these programs sosuccessful?
Alison (26:17):
Yeah, and when I was researching the book, some of
the most compelling case studiesthat I found were those that
were doing more than one thingat a time.
You know, as you point out,like there are great
opportunities for creating moreresilient communities while also
creating local jobs andexpanding urban forests and all
of those things together, andone of the most compelling
examples of that in the book forme was learning about the
(26:38):
Baltimore Wood Project.
You know, baltimore has 30,000vacant buildings and lots and
parts of the city with 25%unemployment and, as we talked
about too, the disparity in treecanopy alone right is a huge
hurdle in terms of making surethat the city can achieve its
40% tree canopy goal.
It has to replant manyneighborhoods that have been
(27:00):
under-resourced for decades.
Stephanie (27:02):
So the.
Alison (27:02):
Baltimore Wood Project is a really interesting kind of
holistic example in the book.
It employs local people manyhave been formerly incarcerated
in salvaging wood from thecity's abandoned buildings.
They learn the tools of thetrade in actually deconstructing
buildings instead ofconstructing them, which offers
them an on-ramp to legitimateemployment.
(27:24):
And a really startlingstatistic was that there's more
wood going into landfills thanis harvested from the national
forests in this country.
So as it decays, that wood isreleasing carbon that it would
otherwise store.
But the wood that the BaltimoreWood Project is salvaging you
know much of it is rare speciesthat can no longer be harvested
(27:48):
is now, you know, through thisprocess, being sold to
businesses like Room and Board.
And Room and Board has thisline of furniture named after
the streets where these housesonce stood, so like the Edding
bookcase and the McKean storagecabinet.
And then the lots where thesehouses once stood are being
converted through communityprocesses to neighborhood parks
and small urban forests that areproviding great public spaces,
(28:09):
that cool the air and cleanneighborhoods and ultimately
contribute to the city's 40%tree canopy goal.
So these kinds of programs thatprovide jobs, that mitigate
emissions, that expand urbanforests, are really examples of
how social justice and climateaction can be aligned.
Jennifer (28:26):
I know this is a little outside the purview of
the book, but a lot of theprojects, especially in the
plant the city and adapt theshoreline chapters, reminded me
of some of the old public worksprograms projects.
So could you see a way that thefederal government could
potentially step in and startassisting with these types of
projects again, but obviouslyfocusing on more of a ground up
effort?
Alison (29:07):
Sure.
In the context of the book, Ilooked at how federal policies
like the Clean Water Act stillstimulating green infrastructure
projects that are being builtaround this country, many of
which I discuss in the book andthis legislation is as important
as ever as storms increase.
More recently, legislation likethe bipartisan infrastructure
bill has created unprecedentedlevels of funding for active
transportation and safe streets,and this bill could ultimately
(29:30):
help states to reduce vehiclemiles traveled and tip the 80-20
split which has favoredhighways to mass transit since
the Reagan years.
But it will take all of usdemanding that this funding
isn't used by our state DOTs towiden highways and re-entrench
the private automobile.
You know we're at a tippingpoint right now.
(29:51):
So the federal government, Ithink, can do and it can also
undo a lot, but ultimately wehave to remember that it's the
people that direct the future ofthis country.
Stephanie (30:02):
A major concern with any improvements made to
depressed neighborhoods isgentrification.
What ways have communities beensuccessful in ensuring
stormwater managementimprovements, in the addition of
more bike lanes or otherresilient infrastructure isn't
pricing out existing residents.
Alison (30:18):
Yeah, this is something that came up a lot in my
research and continues to.
In one interview, someone madethe point to me that
gentrification is notnecessarily a bad thing as it
can bring investments toneighborhoods that need them.
But it is certainly true thatwithout protections for
long-term residents it can leadto displacement.
And one of the most promisingtools that I focused on in my
(30:40):
research was equitabledevelopment plans, which, when I
finished the book, was justfinishing up and since has been
continuing to unfold, and Ilooked at it in the context of
Bayview Hunters Point in SanFrancisco.
So in Bayview Hunters Point,which is located, you know, in
the southern part of SanFrancisco, there is a series of
waterfront parks that are beingdeveloped and the newest among
(31:02):
them is called the India BasinWaterfront Park.
And, to give some context,bayview Hunters Point is
historically, you know, has someof the highest rates of
homeownership among Black peoplein the city.
The Great Migration broughtmany Black families to the
neighborhood who were, you know,many of them were seeking jobs
and got employment for the NavalShipyard.
But since, you know, theshipyard has long closed and the
(31:24):
neighborhood's been largelyneglected by the city and really
cut off from the rest of SanFrancisco by the freeway.
So there's been long-termdisinvestment in transit and
housing and it's an EJ community.
The highway and local powerplants have polluted the
community for generations now,but residents have also
organized.
There was a really incrediblegroup of women called the Big
(31:45):
Five who successfully lobbied inWashington DC to bring
investments in public housing totheir neighborhood in the 1960s
.
That was followed byneighborhood activists actually
shutting down the PG&E powerplant, which began this series
of waterfront parks.
It's a really inspiring story.
And today those parks along thesouthern waterfront it's really
the last remaining coastline inSan Francisco that's being
(32:09):
developed and really they'reusing the India Basin Waterfront
Park, which is the lastremaining piece of that, but
also the one that connects allof these other parks, to
catalyze the equitabledevelopment plan, which is
intended to benefitBayview-Hunters Point residents.
So the plan was created by localleaders that have historically
been left out of the planningprocess and they were brought
(32:31):
together by the next generationof Bayview Hunters Point leaders
, like people like JacquelineBryant, who grew up in Bayview
and is now the executivedirector of the local chapter of
the A Philip Randolph Institute.
And the Equitable DevelopmentPlan outlines ways in which the
park can really generateeconomic opportunities for
residents through local hires inthe creation and operation of
(32:53):
the park, by bringing smallbusinesses into the park that
can provide concessions or kayakrentals, all kinds of things,
and then also that you know thepark is host to cultural
programming that really reflectsthe community.
The plan also addressesaffordable housing and
connecting the neighborhood totransit, like to transit, and
also bike paths, like the BayTrail, which circumnavigates the
(33:15):
entire bay.
So those are really reallyimportant in providing access
for residents to opportunitiesin San Francisco.
And this work is just beginning.
But if it's successful, thepark will not only be creating a
natural amenity for theneighborhood and mitigating the
effects of climate change, butalso becoming a catalyst for
social justice.
Jennifer (33:36):
And, as you've shown throughout, example after
example in the book, a lot ofchange occurs at the grassroots
level, but it's really hard work.
So what encouragement would yougive people who are trying to
build from the ground up butmight be getting tired at this
point?
Alison (33:53):
build from the ground up , but might be getting tired at
this point.
Yeah, I get it.
I've thought about this a bitin the process of researching,
actually, my next book, which isentitled Street Life, and it
focuses on how we can reimagineour city's largest public spaces
for people, and in the process,I've been interviewing
community organizers that arefighting to reimagine the
Brooklyn Queens Expressway,which is, you know, one of the
first highways in the country.
(34:14):
It was built by Robert Moseshere and then, you know, even
before the Federal Highway Actwas passed in 1956.
So it's in many ways thetemplate for the highway system
that we have inherited today andit also bears many of the
tactics of that system.
It was a highway that usedeminent domain to displace, you
know, thousands of people andblack and brown communities.
(34:36):
I think the stat is that NewYork City wide, with all of the
freeways that he constructed, itwas something like 250,000
people that lost their homes,which is just an extraordinary
number.
And the BQE, you know, when itwas built it displaced people,
but it also continues to polluteneighborhoods and increase
traffic violence and overwhelmpublic spaces with just a ton of
(34:59):
hostile noises and rumblingtrucks and horrible air quality.
And this has been a fight that'slasted for more than 80 years.
It's generational and it'sexhausting for many of the
people that have been involvedin it.
You know, I think what's oftenthe most activating to many of
the people that I interviewed inFrom the Ground Up and continue
(35:19):
to in my work today, is knowingthat there are other people
involved in the same kinds offights in the US and around the
world and that they are a partof a community of shared
experience, of expertise andcommitment to the kinds of
things that they're trying to do, for example.
And often it's really helpfulto be informed by history.
(35:40):
So in the 1960s you look backto the freeway revolts and, yes,
we got a lot of horriblefreeways, but they also
organized to stop many freewaysacross the nation from ever even
being built.
And today there's a new freewayfighters movement that's
underway in the United States,with more than 100 communities
(36:00):
pushing to prevent the expansionof highways in their
communities, trying to cap themor retool them as multimodal
streets or even to tear themdown.
So in New York, the BQEEnvironmental Justice Coalition
has organized themselves inneighborhoods along the entire
stretch of the BQ I think all 12miles.
And I think what's amazing isthat I haven't seen that many
(36:21):
coalitions that have used ahighway as their common thread.
It's really interesting.
You know, you can often thinkof communities and where you
live, but this is actuallyorganizing along something that
affects them all in verydifferent ways in their very
different communities.
So it's been really inspiringfor me to track it.
And together they're callingfor plans to reduce driving, to
prioritize climate and publichealth and community
(36:43):
reconnection, and they togetherare essential partners in a
grant that the city was awardedthrough the Reconnecting
Communities Program to advance anew vision for the BQE corridor
, and that work is underwaytoday.
And it's only one of manyprojects among over $3 billion
that was awarded by the USDOT in2024 to redress the impact of
(37:05):
the nation's freeways as part ofthe bipartisan infrastructure
bill.
And their efforts are part of amovement to make cities
equitable and livable, and todate, both Democrats and
Republicans have joined togetherto support them.
So these are the kinds ofhopeful examples in which
communities are leadingsolutions ahead and being
supported by government policiesand funding in doing this work
(37:26):
that hopefully will help remedythe exhaustion of constant
advocacy.
Jennifer (37:36):
And as this is Booked on Planning, besides your book,
which Stephanie and I recommendeveryone go pick up a copy of,
what books would you recommendour readers check out?
Alison (37:41):
Well, thank you for that recommendation.
I really appreciate it.
I have to say that Island Presshas an extraordinary library
and I would always start withthem.
Island Press books are themajority of books on my own
bookshelf, and Veronica Davis'sInclusive Transportation is the
next one on my list, althoughthere's many others behind it.
And then I have to recommendthe Power Broker by Robert Caro,
(38:02):
who you know.
This is the 50th anniversary ofthat book and it's incredible.
It's very long but really worthit.
Also, this year has been trackedby 99% Invisible, which is a
podcast that has been doing aseries of interviews and kind of
a book club along for the wholeyear, so you can read chapters
(38:23):
and then hear other people'sthoughts, and many of them have
been affected or were involvedin the story of New York City
and really that story is one ofthe damage that can be done with
unbridled power in a city likeNew York.
But it's also got complexities.
You know Caro is so openhearted and wonderfully connects
(38:44):
with with people whose liveswere changed by the freeway
system, but he also talks about,like Robert Moses's, impact on
public parks as well.
So it's a really complex andinteresting story and I highly
recommend it's a brick of a bookbut it's very worth it.
And then one I picked uprecently is a book called the
Movement by Clara Bingham, andit's a story of the women's
(39:05):
liberation movement between 1963and 1973.
So 10 years, and it's toldthrough the voices of people
that lived that change, whichthere was so much that was
accomplished in 10 years, and Ithink it's really hopeful to
remember when we've seen suchprofound limitations put on
women's rights in recent years.
That you know the movement isalso instructive to the next
(39:27):
wave of organizing andprotecting the rights of women
going forward.
Jennifer (39:36):
I think I will have to add that to my to be read list
as well, and interestingly,you're the second person now
that has said the power brokerin like the last three
interviews.
Alison (39:40):
So I think there's a collective group now engaged in
this reading and, like mostthings, when you do it together,
it's easier.
Jennifer (39:49):
That's fair and very helpful when it's 1300 pages
long, Right right and veryhelpful with 99 PI.
Thank you, guys for all of thatwork that they're doing.
Alison (39:59):
It's an amazing podcast.
Stephanie (40:02):
Well, Alison, thank you so much for joining us on
the podcast to talk about yourbook.
From the ground up localefforts to create resilient
cities.
Alison (40:09):
Thank you, Stephanie, and thank you Jennifer.
It was really wonderful to talkto you both.
Jennifer (40:14):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation with author
Alison Sant on her book From theGround Up Local Efforts to
Create Resilient Cities.
You can get your own copythrough the publisher at Island
Press using the discount codeGROUND or click the link in the
show notes to take you directlyto our affiliate page.
Remember to subscribe to theshow wherever you listen to
podcasts, and please rate,review and share the show.
Thank you.
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(00:47):
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In each episode we dive intohow cities function by talking
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between.
Join us as we get.
Welcome back Bookworms toanother episode of Booked on
(01:12):
Planning.
In today's episode we talk withauthor Allison Sant on her book
From the Ground Up LocalEfforts to Create Resilient
Cities.
This book came at the perfecttime for me, as I was working on
an application for a large EPAgrant, and the programs
discussed and the supportingevidence in the book was so
helpful.
Jennifer (01:29):
Alison did such a great job of finding inspiring
case studies that prove howimportant it is to listen to
grassroots groups and supportthem when they bring great ideas
to the table.
Some of the best planning ideas, like parking day, have come
from a small group of localorganizers.
Stephanie (01:43):
Alison's book, set up with action language as chapter
titles like Plant the City orTear Up Concrete, has a wealth
of program ideas, from smallneighborhood scale to citywide
programs that have the potentialto make real environmental
impacts, with programs like theMillion Tree Goals or programs
that have added benefits beyondthe environment to also create
jobs.
Jennifer (02:02):
I was especially interested in the programs that
helped employ those members ofour community who have
experienced incarceration.
They honored those people'sskills and experience by
employing them as neighborhoodsafety leaders.
I just thought that was reallycool.
So let's get into ourconversation with author Allison
Sant on her book From theGround Up Local Efforts to
Create Resilient Cities.
Stephanie (02:23):
Alison, thank you for joining us on Booked on
Planning to talk about your bookFrom the Ground Up Local
Efforts to Create ResilientCities.
In your book you break up thesections into reclaiming the
streets, tear up the concrete,plant the city and adapt the
shoreline, with case studiesfrom cities showing how this
work can be accomplished bylocal communities.
What are some of the commonthemes that stuck out to you for
(02:46):
the cities that are mostsuccessful in these types of
efforts?
Alison (02:49):
Well, first of all, I just wanted to thank you both
for having me it's really apleasure to get to speak with
both of you and also to yourlisteners and this wonderful
podcast that you've created.
So thank you.
So you're right.
So the book is broken into fourparts and really, when I was
crafting that, I was thinkingabout each one being called to
action.
You know, reclaim the streets,tear up the concrete, plant the
(03:09):
city and adapt the shoreline,sort of with my fist in the air.
And but what's amazing is thatwhen I was doing the research
for the book, there really wererecurrent themes that came up
repeatedly in conversations Ihad with, you know, over 90
people in writing the book.
And so, as I was reflecting onmy research and, you know,
writing the final drafts, Iboiled it down to kind of four
(03:32):
main points the first andprobably the one that I started
with, though the intention ofthe book kind of grew over time.
But you know, climate change isurgent and we're all trying to
find ways to address it, and Ireally came away feeling that
cities are the place to act.
Cities are responsible for 75%of global carbon emissions and
(03:52):
they also happen to be theplaces that we all live.
The majority of the world'spopulation is in urban places,
so what we do in cities reallymatters.
For example, when we reclaimour streets from cars to create
safe places to walk and bike andmore efficient public transit
for everyone, we lower carbonemissions while creating greater
(04:13):
equity.
And then you know over time.
Really, as I interviewed peopleand understood the American
landscape in a differentdimension, the second point
became for me that systemicracism has shaped the American
urban landscape fundamentally.
And you know, due todiscriminatory policies like
redlining and restrictivecovenants, race is too often
(04:36):
correlated with where peoplelive in cities, what elevations
they live at, what temperaturesthey're exposed to and what
resources they have in times ofemergency, and so, as a result,
climate changedisproportionately affects
under-resourced communities andcommunities of color.
New Orleans is a reallystunning example for me in the
book and you know, as the citygrew, discriminatory development
(04:58):
policies really condensed itsBlack population in the lower
elevations of the city, and thishad horrifying effects during
Hurricane Katrina, when NewOrleans' Black population made
up something like 70, almost 80%, 76% of its flood victims.
And then, in cities likeBaltimore, you know, you can
have an affluent neighborhoodthat has something like 50% tree
(05:19):
canopy cover, but in EastBaltimore's redline
neighborhoods it can be aslittle as 6%.
So that means that on a hot day, there's about 16 degree
difference between two parts ofthe same city.
So these realities are reallyendemic to so many aspects of
the built environment, and thosecities that are creating
greater equity while alsoaddressing climate change are
(05:40):
really creating the best modelsfor resiliency.
And then, third, you know fromand this was also interesting
that everything from creatingbikeways and neighborhood parks
to contemplating managed retreat.
Really, the most effectivesolutions are born out of the
communities they serve.
Solutions that are led bylocals can address their actual
needs, and not only that, butthey help remedy the history of
(06:02):
injustice by putting people incommunities in positions to
really lead the change ahead,and this can ultimately lead to
more inventive solutions, Ithink, as diverse communities
and their experiences arebrought to bear on some of our
most pressing problems.
We really need a lot of goodideas to face the challenges
ahead, ahead.
(06:26):
And then, you know, finally andthis is kind of core to my own
practice but also seemed tobubble up in so many places is
that small experiments, howeversmall, they can ultimately lead
to really large scale changes.
And a close example in the bookthat I mentioned, even in the
forward, is the example ofparking day, which began in 2005
.
And it created a park out of aparking space, and this one day
event eventually created SanFrancisco's official parklet
(06:49):
program and I think by 2019,there were something like 80
official parklets across thecity and everyone was patting
themselves on the back.
But during the pandemic that, itjust exploded.
Right, they were everywhere.
They just multiplied across thecity as we needed places to,
you know, go to school or shopor eat out, and that all
happened in the space of thestreet.
(07:09):
And then today I was looking atthe stats recently there's over
2,000 shared spaces, you know,and those spaces are not just in
San Francisco, you know,they're all over the world.
So you know what happened as aone-day experiment on a parking
spot has developed into a set oftools for really reusing the
public right of way.
So you know, really togetherall of those, those four themes
are really woven into thestories of hope and change that
(07:32):
I illustrate in From the GroundUp.
Jennifer (07:34):
And as I was reading it, you know, I think planners
could absolutely benefit fromthis book, but the audience
seemed to be somewhat wider thanjust the profession.
So, as you were writing thebook, who actually were you
thinking about as your primaryaudience?
Alison (07:48):
I wanted From the Ground Up, to be accessible to a
general audience.
You know, when you pick up thebook and you sum through it,
you'll notice that.
You know you can easily flipthrough all of these
illustrations that give you animmediate sense of the content
of the book.
And they were all drawn byPackard Jennings based on
research that we did also withRobert Ungar.
And all of those illustrationsare not only provocative but
(08:10):
they illustrate a lot of themain points of the book and a
lot of the case studies in them.
And I thought a lot about howalso the book could serve people
organizing in their communitieswho really champion similar
projects to the ones I featurein the book in the places that
they live, and I hoped thatlearning about these examples
around the country helps tofortify their efforts.
(08:32):
And then as you point out, itwas also important to me to
inform the profession, sharingbest practices with planners and
urbanists, advocacy groups,government officials, designers,
so that they can really learnfrom the efforts of communities
throughout the United States.
I mean, I think a lot of timeswe get embedded in our work and
we don't have a chance to lookup and kind of see the full
breadth of who's working across.
(08:53):
You know the country, much lessthe world, so that was really
of interest to me as well.
And then I'm also a teacher, soI wrote this to engage the next
generation of practitioners whoare working in the fields of
sustainability and urbanism andactivism, who are really eager
to learn about how this work canbe effective and equitable and,
ultimately, how it can changecities.
Stephanie (09:13):
Well, reading your book actually came at a perfect
time for us because I justfinished reading it and then we
had started work on a grantapplication through the EPA
Environmental and ClimateJustice Community Change Grant.
And there were so many timeswhere I was flipping through,
pulling little facts out,modeling some of the programs.
When I was in Minneapolis I waspart of the Master Water
Steward Program and youreference.
I can't remember which city hada similar program.
(09:35):
I think it was down in Georgia.
Alison (09:58):
But you had referenced a similar type of master water
steward program, I was like, oh,that would be perfect for this
grant.
So it was well-timed, not onlyat coastal adaptation but there
are watersheds statewide and howto address water issues and
also move people, quite honestly, from lower and places that are
in flood zones to higher anddrier places, intensifying
cities to be able to acceptthose populations.
But it's great to hear that thebook's applicable.
Stephanie (10:12):
So there's often a disconnect between local
governments and community-basedorganizations that are on the
ground doing this type of work.
How can local officials do abetter job of connecting with
local organizations toaccomplish the necessary work of
becoming more resilient cities?
Alison (10:27):
Yeah, I mean local people and organizations.
They bring often overlookedexpertise, and it's really
important to create processesthat engage their knowledge in a
number of ways.
You know, what I heard mostoften from the people I
interviewed was meet peoplewhere they are, and you know
that can be street fairs orcommunity gatherings or riding
(10:48):
transit.
The people need to becompensated adequately for their
time.
If child care or meals areoffered at a community meeting,
it's a lot easier for morepeople to attend, or if they fit
their schedules or there'smultiple ways of participating.
And then if people arecontributing over long periods
of time, it's really importantthat they're compensated for
their expertise and given moneyto make sure that they can
(11:12):
remain engaged in the process.
And then you know it's reallyimportant to listen, engaged in
the process, and then you knowit's really important to listen.
People can recommend and offerthings, but they need to be
listened to when they do that,and that work needs to be taken
seriously.
I think that ultimately, too,it's providing avenues for local
leadership, so that people withlived experience of
transportation, inequalities andall of the other kinds of
(11:35):
inequalities that exist incities are really working in
government agencies and designfirms and you know all kinds of
places, so that their livedexperience is actually part of
the way in which we areaddressing these issues.
And I'll give you an example ofone that I found really
inspiring.
And I actually live in New YorkCity right now, so this is very
close to home.
But you both may know that NewYork City has one of the best
(11:57):
public transit systems in thecountry and it's like a city
where a majority of people donot own cars, and that transit
also includes having the largestbike share in the country, so
making transit accessible isactually a really important
thing in this city.
As I said, that includes bikeshare, which we don't always
associate with public transit,but really is an aspect of
public transit here and, I think, in many other cities as those
(12:20):
networks grow.
So I covered a neighborhood inBrooklyn called
Bedford-Stuyvesant, and CityBike, which is the bike share
system here, had installed bikeshare systems in Bed-Stuy but
many of the residents didn'tride them.
The majority of theneighborhood's residents are
black people and many of themhave household incomes below the
citywide median.
And so, you know, due to thecosts of riding bike share and
(12:44):
the racial profiling associatedwith it and the perception that
these programs are really just atool of gentrification and
displacement and not necessarilyfor long term residents, you
know the program had not been asuccess.
That was until the BedfordStuyvesant Restoration, which is
a community developmentcorporation in Brooklyn, led a
group called the New York CityBetter Bike Share Partnership
(13:06):
and together the partnershipshaped a bike share system in
the neighborhood to reflect theneeds of the community.
You know it was affordable, itcreated job opportunities, it
created opportunities for localleadership and they organized
all kinds of events like helmetgiveaways and bike safety
lessons, neighborhood rides andyouth from the neighborhood were
hired to survey residents.
(13:27):
They were ambassadors and theysurveyed people where they lived
and they understood what theyneeded, and some of those young
people actually went on to laterget jobs for the New York DOT,
which is exciting.
There was other examples, likedoctors in local hospitals
prescribed bike sharememberships to encourage active
transportation, understandingthat it was a part of becoming
healthy.
(13:47):
Local employers purchasedsubsidized memberships and SNAP
recipients were also givendiscounts.
And then restoration met withlocal precincts to address
racial profiling and really makeit safer for people to ride if
they were people of color.
So in just one year membershipincreased 56%, which is more
than it did citywide.
(14:08):
So Bed-Stuy is just one of theexamples in the book that
illustrates that when residentsare involved in generating
solutions, they can really makeinvestments in their
neighborhoods representative oftheir communities and relevant
to their needs and ultimatelyjust more effective.
Jennifer (14:22):
I have a friend who moved to Bed-Stuy last year and
so I shared the story with her.
I was like, oh, did you knowthat you guys didn't always have
bike share?
And she's like I can't evenimagine Bed-Stuy without bike
share.
She takes a bike every day togo down to the subway stop and
she's like why wouldn't we haveever had that?
Alison (14:39):
Yeah, it's amazing, you know, I think so many bike
shares started in kind of thehearts of cities and didn't
always, you know, serve.
I mean in New York City, allthe boroughs for sure, and you
see that in a lot of systemswhere they kind of prioritize
the main business district andnot necessarily the places where
a lot of people live and reallyneed to rely on that,
(14:59):
especially if they're not wellserved by public transit.
Jennifer (15:02):
Yeah, omaha, which is Nebraska's largest city, is
putting in a streetcar and themain criticism that it's been
facing is that it's really onlygoing to shuttle tourists from
downtown to midtown and back andthat's not really where it
needs to be to help people.
But you do also have to proveproof of concept right and show
(15:23):
that things can work.
So it's an interesting balance.
Alison (15:25):
Yeah, I haven't looked into this in the context of the
book, but one of the moreinteresting things that I'm
interested in researching moreis how bus networks can perform
that, because they're a lot moreflexible.
So you can try things, and Iknow Houston has had some great
examples of this and there'ssome degree to which that's been
attempted here in New York City, where the SBS system was tried
(15:46):
on 14th Street and has beenwildly successful, and so now
that will be taken into otherboroughs.
But it certainly is one way ofscaling up a transit network on
the cheap, as long as you canhave operators and also streets
that serve those buses, so thatthey can actually get around and
not just be stuck in traffic.
Jennifer (16:06):
It's fair.
And also, you know the firstbook you write but gets the
second book you write right.
Alison (16:10):
Exactly.
Jennifer (16:13):
So, as you mentioned, maybe it's just that I haven't
been able to pull my head backfrom the work that I had to put
my nose to the grind on, butwe've talked a lot about
redlining in past episodes, butyou presented a phrase that I
hadn't yet heard of from DrDestiny Thomas, which was purple
lining, so can you explain thisterm in case others haven't
been able to pull their heads uplately either and discuss how
(16:33):
it's negatively impacting how westill, to this day, design our
cities?
Alison (16:39):
Yeah, so purple lining was a term coined by cultural
anthropologist and planner, drDestiny Thomas, as really an
analog to redlining, and theterm came out of the 2020
shelter in place circumstancesin Oakland, california, which is
one of the first cities in thecountry to begin closing its
streets to traffic, and the cityprioritized routes in
(17:01):
under-resourced neighborhoodsfor recognizing that many of the
communities that were thehardest hit by the pandemic were
those that had the least accessto open space.
However, as a Black womanliving in Oakland, destiny
argued that, because Black andBrown communities were not
involved in the decision-makingprocess, that many residents
wondered who the streets wereactually for, and in our
(17:22):
interview, she expressed Iactually interviewed her during
the throes of the pandemic andshe expressed that she felt that
an opportunity was reallymissed to reverse the legacy of
discrimination and givecommunities greater agency in
determining their futuresespecially in a time of
emergency agency and determiningtheir futures, especially in a
time of emergency.
So when I asked her why purple,she said that it came out of her
own experiences of bias whenshe was working at the LADOT,
(17:46):
leading community engagementefforts, and she described that
her mostly white colleagueswould shade areas on the map
where black people lived usingthe color purple.
And you know, I think this kindof very personal experience, but
turning it into a terminologythat allowed people to easily
understand what that meant.
You know, she brought attentionto the reality that people were
(18:08):
affected very differently bythe pandemic.
That meant that it was evenmore important for communities
to advance their own solutionsto the crisis.
Stephanie (18:17):
So another term that you use in the book in several
chapters is community-basedplanning.
What is this and how does itdiffer from a traditional
planning approach?
Alison (18:26):
Yeah, community-based planning is about local
leadership.
So historically, manycommunities have been
intentionally left out of theplanning process and decisions
have been determined forcommunities instead of with them
Often engagement processes.
You know they can check boxesbut they don't actually promote
local decision making.
One example that came to mindis really during Hurricane
(18:48):
Katrina I was describing earlierthat you know, new Orleans'
Black population made up thishuge percentage of its flood
victims and unfortunately stormsin Louisiana and in New Orleans
are only getting worse.
New Orleans has become one ofthe wettest cities in the United
States and most of the stormsoccur in intense cloud bursts.
So that could be in an hourthere's something like five or
(19:10):
six inches of rain, so reallyreally intense storms, and that
makes green infrastructure areally essential tool in
managing stormwater.
So after Hurricane Katrina,angela Chalk, who is the
executive director of HealthyCommunity Services in the
Seventh Ward, which is a verylow-lying area, worked with a
group called Waterwise GulfSouth to really direct
(19:32):
investments to her neighborhoodand she launched a crew of
volunteers to createinfrastructure green
infrastructure in her ownbackyard and front yard and the
sidewalk.
And when the next storm hit andshe didn't flood, her neighbors
were interested in the samekinds of remedies, you know,
wanting to find out how theycould fare better.
So, really knowing herneighbors and her neighborhood,
(19:54):
she brought people together.
You know she would make homecooked meals and bring people
together in her house and sheknew everyone.
So it was easy for her to kindof plan things that people could
attend and understand theirrestrictions and what might make
a community process moreeffective.
And during those sessions shereally helped people to
understand how greeninfrastructure works and how it
(20:15):
complements the really complexsystem of, you know, levees and
pumps and canals that make NewOrleans work every day.
So now, today, the neighborhoodhas entire blocks of
demonstration projects and theSeventh Ward is part of a number
of neighborhoods that are partof the Waterwise Champions,
which is a training programwhich provides avenues to
(20:36):
employment by connecting peoplewith very local knowledge to
technical expertise about greeninfrastructure.
And then, when you know, a $141million HUD grant was awarded to
New Orleans to create theGentilly District.
They toured the Seventh Ward.
So these kinds of communityapproaches that Angela and many
of her other colleagues areleading in, neighborhoods in the
(20:58):
city are being expanded as anetwork of permeable parks and
green streets and stormwatercorridors are being created
throughout the city, andresidents are really
contributing to these projectsby sharing local knowledge, by
developing water literacy andplanning for the future of their
city.
You know, I think one of thethings that really stuck with me
is that the truth is that, whenit comes to climate change, we
(21:19):
really need to engage each otherin determining the very
difficult choices about how wewant to live in the future.
There are things that we'regoing to have to give up and
there's things that we're goingto have to decide to keep, and
that, essentially, should be ademocratic process.
So, ideally, community-basedplanning is allowing for
everyone to have a seat at thattable.
Jennifer (21:39):
It seems that often even community-led efforts for
change have faced veryfrustrating pushbacks in their
own neighborhoods, like the bikeshare program that we talked
about in Bed-Stuy.
So how did they originally gowrong, and what advice would you
provide to community activiststo avoid that kind of outcome in
the future?
Alison (21:59):
But this question is also really relevant to another
example in the book inMinneapolis, which focuses on
the North Minneapolis Greenway.
And just to give some contextto your listeners, you know
Minneapolis has some of the bestbiking infrastructure in
benefit everyone, especiallycommunities of color in
Minneapolis, and among thosecommunities are those in North
Minneapolis.
So it's a neighborhood wherethere's a majority of Black
(22:31):
residents, many of them havebeen chronically poor, and also
there's many suffer from adversehealth conditions like asthma,
and so there's high rates ofpremature death in that
neighborhood In a city with arobust biking network.
You know North Minneapolisunfortunately really lacks it
and the city came in sort ofacknowledging these inequities.
You know, in partnership withBlue Cross, they launched a
(22:52):
pilot program to create aNorthside Greenway, really
seeing biking as being part of asolution to both transit
inequity and health inequities,and they painted lanes and they
put out picnic tables and theycreated this kind of temporary
version of the NorthsideGreenway.
But you know, not allcommunities members felt
involved and, worse, some feltlike the bike lane was again the
(23:16):
sort of leading edge ofgentrification, displacement,
and there was a movement calledStop the North Minneapolis
Greenway and it ultimatelysuccessfully removed a section
of the pilot project, and Ithink this resistance reveals a
kind of justified mistrust ofgovernment processes that often
can engage communities but theydon't adequately resource
(23:38):
projects towards correctingbroader systemic inequities.
For example, you know, iftransit, access to transit had
been advanced alongside theremoval of parking so that
residents didn't have to rely asmuch on cars, that may have
been a solution that people feltlike okay, well, that's a
reasonable trade-off.
So and that was acknowledged inthe kind of final reporting
(23:58):
about it Following that, theneighborhood really came
together and they were broughttogether by two people, will
Lumpkins and Alexis Penny, whoorganize this, the Northside
Greenway now, and they're youknow, they're locals to this
neighborhood.
Both of them grew up there andthey knocked on doors and they
talked with their neighbors andthey got people together at
block parties and open streetevents and they organized
(24:19):
community rides, all towardscreating a common vision of you
know really, with the questionwhat is a Northside Greenway and
what should it look like?
And that vision has reallycontributed to people saying
that you know what they want isa greenway to connect local
businesses and cultural centers.
You know that it should createan opportunity for kids and
their families to be able towalk and bike safely to school,
(24:41):
things like that.
So as the city expands itsneighborhood greenways, I think
there's something like 50 plusmiles that are, and will be,
added to Minneapolis's network.
Will and Alexis have beenleading a successful effort to
get the Northside Greenway intothe city's budget as a priority
project.
But even today I actually justchecked this a few weeks ago its
(25:02):
construction isn't scheduled tobegin until 2028.
So when I finished the book itwas 2026.
You know, communities like that, those in North Minneapolis,
deserve those kinds ofinvestments today, and I think
this example really illustratesthat community leadership is key
to creating effective solutions.
Perhaps if the project had beenstarted with local advocacy
(25:23):
instead of kind of somethingthat people felt was imposed
upon them, it might have beenbuilt today.
So often when there's pushback,it can be because people's
needs have not been adequatelyaddressed in the process.
Stephanie (25:35):
I think that example is such a good reminder to
professionals like us that wehave the data, we know where
there was disinvestment, wherethere was redlining, where
there's things to be rectified,and we just have these ideas to
go in and fix it for them,instead of fixing it with them
and including them in theprocess to make sure it really
is something that would benefitthem and improve their
communities.
Alison (25:56):
Yeah.
Stephanie (25:56):
So you include the broad bucket of climate change.
Resilience planning, or justresilience planning, has so many
opportunities for creating jobs, especially those with criminal
backgrounds, which you have.
A couple examples of programsin the book that are really
great, and they include streetoutreach programs, tree planting
and training programs.
What has made these programs sosuccessful?
Alison (26:17):
Yeah, and when I was researching the book, some of
the most compelling case studiesthat I found were those that
were doing more than one thingat a time.
You know, as you point out,like there are great
opportunities for creating moreresilient communities while also
creating local jobs andexpanding urban forests and all
of those things together, andone of the most compelling
examples of that in the book forme was learning about the
(26:38):
Baltimore Wood Project.
You know, baltimore has 30,000vacant buildings and lots and
parts of the city with 25%unemployment and, as we talked
about too, the disparity in treecanopy alone right is a huge
hurdle in terms of making surethat the city can achieve its
40% tree canopy goal.
It has to replant manyneighborhoods that have been
(27:00):
under-resourced for decades.
Stephanie (27:02):
So the.
Alison (27:02):
Baltimore Wood Project is a really interesting kind of
holistic example in the book.
It employs local people manyhave been formerly incarcerated
in salvaging wood from thecity's abandoned buildings.
They learn the tools of thetrade in actually deconstructing
buildings instead ofconstructing them, which offers
them an on-ramp to legitimateemployment.
(27:24):
And a really startlingstatistic was that there's more
wood going into landfills thanis harvested from the national
forests in this country.
So as it decays, that wood isreleasing carbon that it would
otherwise store.
But the wood that the BaltimoreWood Project is salvaging you
know much of it is rare speciesthat can no longer be harvested
(27:48):
is now, you know, through thisprocess, being sold to
businesses like Room and Board.
And Room and Board has thisline of furniture named after
the streets where these housesonce stood, so like the Edding
bookcase and the McKean storagecabinet.
And then the lots where thesehouses once stood are being
converted through communityprocesses to neighborhood parks
and small urban forests that areproviding great public spaces,
(28:09):
that cool the air and cleanneighborhoods and ultimately
contribute to the city's 40%tree canopy goal.
So these kinds of programs thatprovide jobs, that mitigate
emissions, that expand urbanforests, are really examples of
how social justice and climateaction can be aligned.
Jennifer (28:26):
I know this is a little outside the purview of
the book, but a lot of theprojects, especially in the
plant the city and adapt theshoreline chapters, reminded me
of some of the old public worksprograms projects.
So could you see a way that thefederal government could
potentially step in and startassisting with these types of
projects again, but obviouslyfocusing on more of a ground up
effort?
Alison (29:07):
Sure.
In the context of the book, Ilooked at how federal policies
like the Clean Water Act stillstimulating green infrastructure
projects that are being builtaround this country, many of
which I discuss in the book andthis legislation is as important
as ever as storms increase.
More recently, legislation likethe bipartisan infrastructure
bill has created unprecedentedlevels of funding for active
transportation and safe streets,and this bill could ultimately
(29:30):
help states to reduce vehiclemiles traveled and tip the 80-20
split which has favoredhighways to mass transit since
the Reagan years.
But it will take all of usdemanding that this funding
isn't used by our state DOTs towiden highways and re-entrench
the private automobile.
You know we're at a tippingpoint right now.
(29:51):
So the federal government, Ithink, can do and it can also
undo a lot, but ultimately wehave to remember that it's the
people that direct the future ofthis country.
Stephanie (30:02):
A major concern with any improvements made to
depressed neighborhoods isgentrification.
What ways have communities beensuccessful in ensuring
stormwater managementimprovements, in the addition of
more bike lanes or otherresilient infrastructure isn't
pricing out existing residents.
Alison (30:18):
Yeah, this is something that came up a lot in my
research and continues to.
In one interview, someone madethe point to me that
gentrification is notnecessarily a bad thing as it
can bring investments toneighborhoods that need them.
But it is certainly true thatwithout protections for
long-term residents it can leadto displacement.
And one of the most promisingtools that I focused on in my
(30:40):
research was equitabledevelopment plans, which, when I
finished the book, was justfinishing up and since has been
continuing to unfold, and Ilooked at it in the context of
Bayview Hunters Point in SanFrancisco.
So in Bayview Hunters Point,which is located, you know, in
the southern part of SanFrancisco, there is a series of
waterfront parks that are beingdeveloped and the newest among
(31:02):
them is called the India BasinWaterfront Park.
And, to give some context,bayview Hunters Point is
historically, you know, has someof the highest rates of
homeownership among Black peoplein the city.
The Great Migration broughtmany Black families to the
neighborhood who were, you know,many of them were seeking jobs
and got employment for the NavalShipyard.
But since, you know, theshipyard has long closed and the
(31:24):
neighborhood's been largelyneglected by the city and really
cut off from the rest of SanFrancisco by the freeway.
So there's been long-termdisinvestment in transit and
housing and it's an EJ community.
The highway and local powerplants have polluted the
community for generations now,but residents have also
organized.
There was a really incrediblegroup of women called the Big
(31:45):
Five who successfully lobbied inWashington DC to bring
investments in public housing totheir neighborhood in the 1960s
.
That was followed byneighborhood activists actually
shutting down the PG&E powerplant, which began this series
of waterfront parks.
It's a really inspiring story.
And today those parks along thesouthern waterfront it's really
the last remaining coastline inSan Francisco that's being
(32:09):
developed and really they'reusing the India Basin Waterfront
Park, which is the lastremaining piece of that, but
also the one that connects allof these other parks, to
catalyze the equitabledevelopment plan, which is
intended to benefitBayview-Hunters Point residents.
So the plan was created by localleaders that have historically
been left out of the planningprocess and they were brought
(32:31):
together by the next generationof Bayview Hunters Point leaders
, like people like JacquelineBryant, who grew up in Bayview
and is now the executivedirector of the local chapter of
the A Philip Randolph Institute.
And the Equitable DevelopmentPlan outlines ways in which the
park can really generateeconomic opportunities for
residents through local hires inthe creation and operation of
(32:53):
the park, by bringing smallbusinesses into the park that
can provide concessions or kayakrentals, all kinds of things,
and then also that you know thepark is host to cultural
programming that really reflectsthe community.
The plan also addressesaffordable housing and
connecting the neighborhood totransit, like to transit, and
also bike paths, like the BayTrail, which circumnavigates the
(33:15):
entire bay.
So those are really reallyimportant in providing access
for residents to opportunitiesin San Francisco.
And this work is just beginning.
But if it's successful, thepark will not only be creating a
natural amenity for theneighborhood and mitigating the
effects of climate change, butalso becoming a catalyst for
social justice.
Jennifer (33:36):
And, as you've shown throughout, example after
example in the book, a lot ofchange occurs at the grassroots
level, but it's really hard work.
So what encouragement would yougive people who are trying to
build from the ground up butmight be getting tired at this
point?
Alison (33:53):
build from the ground up , but might be getting tired at
this point.
Yeah, I get it.
I've thought about this a bitin the process of researching,
actually, my next book, which isentitled Street Life, and it
focuses on how we can reimagineour city's largest public spaces
for people, and in the process,I've been interviewing
community organizers that arefighting to reimagine the
Brooklyn Queens Expressway,which is, you know, one of the
first highways in the country.
(34:14):
It was built by Robert Moseshere and then, you know, even
before the Federal Highway Actwas passed in 1956.
So it's in many ways thetemplate for the highway system
that we have inherited today andit also bears many of the
tactics of that system.
It was a highway that usedeminent domain to displace, you
know, thousands of people andblack and brown communities.
(34:36):
I think the stat is that NewYork City wide, with all of the
freeways that he constructed, itwas something like 250,000
people that lost their homes,which is just an extraordinary
number.
And the BQE, you know, when itwas built it displaced people,
but it also continues to polluteneighborhoods and increase
traffic violence and overwhelmpublic spaces with just a ton of
(34:59):
hostile noises and rumblingtrucks and horrible air quality.
And this has been a fight that'slasted for more than 80 years.
It's generational and it'sexhausting for many of the
people that have been involvedin it.
You know, I think what's oftenthe most activating to many of
the people that I interviewed inFrom the Ground Up and continue
(35:19):
to in my work today, is knowingthat there are other people
involved in the same kinds offights in the US and around the
world and that they are a partof a community of shared
experience, of expertise andcommitment to the kinds of
things that they're trying to do, for example.
And often it's really helpfulto be informed by history.
(35:40):
So in the 1960s you look backto the freeway revolts and, yes,
we got a lot of horriblefreeways, but they also
organized to stop many freewaysacross the nation from ever even
being built.
And today there's a new freewayfighters movement that's
underway in the United States,with more than 100 communities
(36:00):
pushing to prevent the expansionof highways in their
communities, trying to cap themor retool them as multimodal
streets or even to tear themdown.
So in New York, the BQEEnvironmental Justice Coalition
has organized themselves inneighborhoods along the entire
stretch of the BQ I think all 12miles.
And I think what's amazing isthat I haven't seen that many
(36:21):
coalitions that have used ahighway as their common thread.
It's really interesting.
You know, you can often thinkof communities and where you
live, but this is actuallyorganizing along something that
affects them all in verydifferent ways in their very
different communities.
So it's been really inspiringfor me to track it.
And together they're callingfor plans to reduce driving, to
prioritize climate and publichealth and community
(36:43):
reconnection, and they togetherare essential partners in a
grant that the city was awardedthrough the Reconnecting
Communities Program to advance anew vision for the BQE corridor
, and that work is underwaytoday.
And it's only one of manyprojects among over $3 billion
that was awarded by the USDOT in2024 to redress the impact of
(37:05):
the nation's freeways as part ofthe bipartisan infrastructure
bill.
And their efforts are part of amovement to make cities
equitable and livable, and todate, both Democrats and
Republicans have joined togetherto support them.
So these are the kinds ofhopeful examples in which
communities are leadingsolutions ahead and being
supported by government policiesand funding in doing this work
(37:26):
that hopefully will help remedythe exhaustion of constant
advocacy.
Jennifer (37:36):
And as this is Booked on Planning, besides your book,
which Stephanie and I recommendeveryone go pick up a copy of,
what books would you recommendour readers check out?
Alison (37:41):
Well, thank you for that recommendation.
I really appreciate it.
I have to say that Island Presshas an extraordinary library
and I would always start withthem.
Island Press books are themajority of books on my own
bookshelf, and Veronica Davis'sInclusive Transportation is the
next one on my list, althoughthere's many others behind it.
And then I have to recommendthe Power Broker by Robert Caro,
(38:02):
who you know.
This is the 50th anniversary ofthat book and it's incredible.
It's very long but really worthit.
Also, this year has been trackedby 99% Invisible, which is a
podcast that has been doing aseries of interviews and kind of
a book club along for the wholeyear, so you can read chapters
(38:23):
and then hear other people'sthoughts, and many of them have
been affected or were involvedin the story of New York City
and really that story is one ofthe damage that can be done with
unbridled power in a city likeNew York.
But it's also got complexities.
You know Caro is so openhearted and wonderfully connects
(38:44):
with with people whose liveswere changed by the freeway
system, but he also talks about,like Robert Moses's, impact on
public parks as well.
So it's a really complex andinteresting story and I highly
recommend it's a brick of a bookbut it's very worth it.
And then one I picked uprecently is a book called the
Movement by Clara Bingham, andit's a story of the women's
(39:05):
liberation movement between 1963and 1973.
So 10 years, and it's toldthrough the voices of people
that lived that change, whichthere was so much that was
accomplished in 10 years, and Ithink it's really hopeful to
remember when we've seen suchprofound limitations put on
women's rights in recent years.
That you know the movement isalso instructive to the next
(39:27):
wave of organizing andprotecting the rights of women
going forward.
Jennifer (39:36):
I think I will have to add that to my to be read list
as well, and interestingly,you're the second person now
that has said the power brokerin like the last three
interviews.
Alison (39:40):
So I think there's a collective group now engaged in
this reading and, like mostthings, when you do it together,
it's easier.
Jennifer (39:49):
That's fair and very helpful when it's 1300 pages
long, Right right and veryhelpful with 99 PI.
Thank you, guys for all of thatwork that they're doing.
Alison (39:59):
It's an amazing podcast.
Stephanie (40:02):
Well, Alison, thank you so much for joining us on
the podcast to talk about yourbook.
From the ground up localefforts to create resilient
cities.
Alison (40:09):
Thank you, Stephanie, and thank you Jennifer.
It was really wonderful to talkto you both.
Jennifer (40:14):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation with author
Alison Sant on her book From theGround Up Local Efforts to
Create Resilient Cities.
You can get your own copythrough the publisher at Island
Press using the discount codeGROUND or click the link in the
show notes to take you directlyto our affiliate page.
Remember to subscribe to theshow wherever you listen to
podcasts, and please rate,review and share the show.
Thank you.
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