July 16, 2025 • 47 mins
What sets a legend apart from just another player? The answer lies in the mind.
In this episode, Tara dives deep into the psychology of peak performance with Dr. Samir Parikh and Divya Jain, authors of The Champion Within. What really makes someone a champion, not just in sport, but in life and work?
From game-day rituals and comeback stories to dealing with pressure, anticipatory anxiety, and failure, this episode is packed with stories and science behind how mental strength is built.
You’ll hear about the famous Wimbledon choke that turned into a redemption arc, what athletes do between points to reset their focus, and how a sense of fun can literally shift your performance.
Whether you're building a startup, sitting for exams, or chasing your next big win, this episode will make you rethink what it means to show up with grit and joy.
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‘Books and Beyond with Bound’ is the podcast where Tara Khandelwal and Michelle D’costa uncover how their books reflect the realities of our lives and society today. Find out what drives India’s finest authors: from personal experiences to jugaad research methods, insecurities to publishing journeys. Created by Bound, a storytelling company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social media platforms.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tara Khandelwal (00:12):
Tara, hi everyone. This is Books and
Beyond, where you get to hearstraight from the authors who
make us laugh, cry, think andcheer. I'm your host. Tara
kandiral, I'm so excited fortoday's episode because we get
to dive into the championmindset. But before we do that,
take a second to hit that followbutton on Spotify Apple podcast
or wherever you're listening,and don't forget to follow us on
Instagram for updates aboutbooks and beyond. So let's get
(00:35):
into it. What does it take toreally be a sportsman, great
passion, a bit of madness. I'vealways been really fascinated by
what it takes for someone tobecome a true champion. And 2025
has already been a year ofcomebacks. RCB finally won the
IPL Totten and Hotspur liftedthe Europa League trophy after
(00:55):
17 years. Nico hirkenberg gothis first Formula One podium
after 15 years of trying. Andthese stories sound like fairy
tales, but they're really aboutpatience and relentless
dedication. And as somebody whohas studied psychology, and my
cousin is actually India numberone in squash, and I've seen her
(01:17):
sort of go through her sportspsychology journey, I was very,
very excited to interviewtoday's guest, Dr Sameer Parekh,
Chairperson of the 40s NationalMental Health Program, and Divya
Jain, sports psychologist, headof psychological services at
Fortis. And they're here to talkabout their new book, The
champion within which honestlyreads like a manual for not just
(01:39):
building a great athlete, but agreat mindset. So let's get into
the nitty gritties of sportspsychology. Hi. Dr Parekh, hi.
Divya, hi. So in the championwithin, you break down every
aspect of what it takes tobecoming a champion, and you do
it in very relatable ways. Forexample, you explain how having
a vision for success is likedriving a car, keeping your eyes
(02:01):
on the road, but never losingsight of where you're going. And
it's clear that you wanted thisbook to reach a lot beyond just
athletes. So what did you havein mind when you wrote this
book, and Who's your idealleader? The
Samir Parikh (02:16):
whole idea is that one needs to look at when to
apply these principles whichhelp athletes, elite athlete at
the highest level, and how theycan be used for all of us, it's
not that our struggles are alsonot there. It's not that a exam
going student doesn't go throughtheir struggle, an employee who
(02:40):
has targets not go throughstruggles. It's not some of us
who do not have our motivationsgoing up and down the pressures
and rigors of life multiplevectors acting on us. And all of
us in our journey have our upsand downs. And when you compare
this to the life of an eliteathlete like you were just
(03:01):
mentioning that the pressure isso many times different. The
shelf life of how many years youhave to be able to perform at a
certain level is much lesserthan an average individual
longitudinal axis of working asall of us do, and the kind of
pressures that are there notchesof the self, but competitive
(03:24):
aspect as well as the observeand so many people following you
and critiquing you both. So whenyou look at that aspect, the
idea was that if an athlete,year after year, game after
game, tournament aftertournament, can try and up their
game, maintain theirperformance. How about all of us
(03:45):
also learn from some of thethings that people like to be
almost a sports psychologistwhen they work with athletes. If
we use the same things, we canactually manage our own
performances and successes a bitbetter.
Divya Jain (03:58):
Yeah, when we talk about some of these mental
skills, sometimes it feels likeit's easier said than done. But
when we're able to use some ofthese metaphors from the field
of sport, when they're actuallyable to see some of these things
play out, see people actually beable to cope with that kind of
pressure, bounce back in thatway, it actually it becomes
(04:20):
quite inspiring. It becomessomething that actually can be
done. People's belief in ittends to increase, and they're
actually able to see how to goabout it. So for me, it was also
just about but bringing aboutthat vocabulary and that
relatability to people around
Tara Khandelwal (04:36):
maybe we can speak a little bit about how
both of you got into sportspsychology, because I think it's
a very interesting field. Andprobably, you know, it's more
and more up and coming in India,with even people, more people
wanting to become sportsmen. AndI think more credence also been
given to the mental aspect ofthe sport, because I find that
the most satisfying. And thenthat is often the maker makeup.
(05:00):
Break, because in sports, youcan, you know, attain the same
level of physical expertise. Butthat make or break is that
mindset.
Samir Parikh (05:07):
So I am now in the field for just under three
decades, and I've been workingas a psychiatrist for a while.
So over the years, athletes havereached out, largely in the
initial years, it was cricket.
We worked with some other fieldsas well, until 2024 when both
Divya and I went to the ParisOlympics as the mental health
(05:28):
coaches. Now, see my take onthis is that first, I don't
believe that the integrationthat should happen of mental
health and mental conditioningis happening in the right
manner. I think it's toointermittent. It's sometimes
post injury, sometimes it'safter the setback, sometimes
(05:48):
it's before a tournament. Now,compare this to physical
training. Compare this to yourcoaching. Compare this to
nutrition. Now that's nothappening intermittent. That's
not happening just before atournament. You start at the
earliest grassroot youngathletes, kilo India, state
level, district level. It is atthis level that we need to
(06:12):
integrate the mentalconditioning component, which I
don't think is happening. And ifwe don't start from there, then
suddenly, out of the blue, youjust add somebody a few weeks or
months before your tournament isnot going to give you the the
results. Yes, more people aretalking about it. That does not
mean more people are utilizingit, and we will need to
(06:35):
understand this now, whether thereluctance comes from the
understanding of the athletes attimes, whether it is coming
because of the understanding oftheir coaches. They're very
mature. There are multipleaspects here, but I do feel that
what happened right now, as inthe Paris Olympics, I think it's
a very, very important step inthe right direction. I think
(06:58):
Indian Olympic Association tookup clinically and ethically. The
Right Thing that in the medicalteam, the first time had mental
health experts, me as apsychiatrist, as a sports
psychologist, the fact that wewere able to recognize that
medical team will have a mentalhealth experts, I think that
(07:19):
that is a very important step,and one needs to hats off to
everybody who was in thedecision making here, because
this is going to shape thefuture that you will now not
have big tournaments with ourmental health experts, and
gradually you'll have moreacceptance in younger players
and at the Academy level, andI'm hoping that people will
(07:40):
integrate this a lot better. Iremember
Divya Jain (07:44):
when I got into the field of psychology, the number
of people who would come in atthat time, the kind of
acceptance that was there atthat time, versus how it has
been 15 years for me now, closeto 30 years for Dr pare. And I
see a similar kind of trendhopefully following for sports
psychology as well. It's, it'snot there yet. You know, people
(08:05):
talk so much about the mentalaspect of the game, so if you
hear, if you watch any match,you hear any commentary, you'll
realize that most of it ismental. You hear any
conversation between two people.
It could be a boss and a anassociate. It could be a teacher
and a coach, a athlete. Therewill be so much of the mental
aspect that is that isdiscussed, but we just say, you
(08:27):
know, just relax, be confident.
But how to do that is somethingthat's being missed out. And
what that does is it creates somany little gaps, it creates so
much confusion, so muchhelplessness, we stop taking
those things seriously, becausewe just start feeling it's
easier said than done. So if wecan actually break it down, we
(08:47):
can actually tell you how youcan actually build your
confidence, how you can actuallyrelax in those high pressure
moments, that is what can be agame changer.
Tara Khandelwal (08:55):
No, I can't tell you. I absolutely agree
with that, because it's so muchmental and actually, my
introduction to this whole fieldof sports psychology, because I
obviously didn't know anythingabout it was because of my
cousin, and because she's asquash player, she has a team,
and she goes to the sportspsychologist. And I was very
intrigued. I was like, Oh, whatdo you all discuss there? What
(09:16):
do you what do you guys, youknow, do? Why do you need a
sports psychologist? And thenshe explained to me that, you
know, actually, that's one ofthe most crucial members of, you
know, her performance, and it'sso mental. And because she's
already at this amazing physicallevel, and she even meditates,
and, you know, she's like, 80%of the game is mental. And then
(09:38):
when I go watch her at hertournaments and stuff as well. I
see that shift in on I see sortof all the things that she's
talking about and, you know, thepre game rituals that you
mentioned in the book, theemotional regulation. You know,
when you're on the court, youknow, even she says things like,
you know, you just let yourinstincts take over, and you
don't overthink every hit orevery swing. And so those kind
(10:01):
of things, you know, for me,seeing, seeing it up close,
because we're very close, wasvery, very fascinating, which is
why I wanted to speak to actualsports psychologists and figure
out, you know, what goes intoit. And one part of this book
that really struck me was theimportance of practicing, you
know. And you say that the bestperformance should not happen
during the match, it shouldhappen during the practice. And
(10:23):
one thing is that you shouldalso simulate, you know, the
pressure situations, becauseit's very different to practice,
you know, without having anaudience watch you and you speak
about something called theaudience effect. So I want to
hear from you. You know, whenyou are working with any of
these athletes. You know who youwork with? What are some of the
(10:44):
ways that you help them performunder pressure? So
Divya Jain (10:47):
yes, it's a fact that our performance changes
when we're in a high pressuresituation. There's a lot of
adrenaline that's pumping. Soyou know, our breathing, our
heart rate, even our muscletension changes. The things that
we focus on, tend to change aswell, and that's where the
audience effect comes in, whichis that if you perform, if
you're really good at something,and if people are watching,
(11:09):
chances are you're going to geteven better. But if there are
areas where you are doubtful andpeople are watching, or it's
it's a harder task, then yourperformance can actually
deteriorate at that time. Soperformance is is a social
concept. Performance is not justan individual concept. This is
something we sometimes forget.
So learning to practice,learning to put ourselves in
those high stress situationswhile we are practicing, so that
(11:33):
we know how we deal with thingsgoing wrong. So we talk about
visualizing, as you know,visualizing perfect outcomes,
and imagine the forest andimagine the beaches. But at the
same time, we also need tovisualize the things that can go
wrong. And this is not aboutnegative thinking. This is about
preparing. So if I know that mygoggles are going to fill up
(11:55):
with water, what am I going todo if I know that my mic is not
going to work, or it's going tohave a glitch at a certain
point. What can I do at thattime? So practice is where
people get their confidencefrom. Practice is where our
connections are formed in ourmind, so we know Okay, Plan A is
not working. What is Plan B?
What is Plan C? What is Plan D?
And that's how we bring thattogether.
Tara Khandelwal (12:18):
Yeah, I like the example of Michael Phelps,
and when he was, you know,swimming one race, his goggles
had filled up, but because he'dalready practiced that scenario,
he knew how many strokes heneeded to do to get to the end
of the pool. And I found thatvery compelling. Because really,
you know, practice does makeperfect. And as a founder, also
(12:39):
of a company, I always tell myteam, you know, don't go into
any meetings without unprepared,like prepare for every single
meeting, because you can't justsort of rely on experience at
the end of the day. If youpractice certain situations,
it's always better. So I reallylike that part of the book, and
I'm just very fascinated. Youknow, as Dr Parekh, you said
that you were part of the Indiateam at the Paris Olympics. I
(13:02):
mean, that must have been suchan intense and incredible
experience. Could you tell me alittle bit more what it was like
being there, what kind ofpressure these athletes were
facing, and what sort of wasyour role? How did you keep
their morale and focus duringthis high stakes event?
Samir Parikh (13:19):
A couple of things to this one, I think, like I
mentioned earlier, that as amental health professional, the
fact that mental healthprofessionals went as a part of
the medical team, to me, that isthe most important aspect, and
that's something I cherish. Andthis could have been any one of
us, or anybody else, I wouldhave still felt the same,
because mental health needed tobe integrated in the life of an
(13:42):
athlete, especially for thesebig tournaments. And that, I
think, is a is kudos to IO andall the decision makers having
said that, I think it's a oncein a lifetime experience all
said and done because it wasfascinating, right? It was like
a world which could actually bea happy place, right? And a
(14:05):
world that is a world in itself,that you'll have all these areas
or buildings or homes for eachcountry. So for example, our
neighbors were Spain. So you'rewalking back at 5pm after doing
some work that you've done, andyou're crossing the dial and
(14:25):
you're alone that, and if youjust cross right and and you
realize the equal equalizer,that's what says the that there
are no stars and there are onlyathletes and coaches and
trainers and staff, and thedining area was, again, a very,
(14:46):
very fascinating area. You canimagine as big as it gets, and
you have teams from variouscountries continents, sitting
together, having their own bittheir own. Approach to it, and
you would cross some of thesebiggest names, and they'll also
be selling their food, andyou'll be doing that and sit
(15:08):
where you get a chance. It'salmost like a mini utopia of
sorts. The relaxation areas werenice as a bit of music, my
favorite bit the ice cream thatyou could have every now and
then. And I think that wholeapproach that was fascinating
and and the fact that howdifferent people prepare for
(15:32):
their own games, you would have,let's say so we had, for
example, a wall of positivitywhere everyone had written a
message, from PT Usha to toNiraj, to Prakash, padugo and
Bucha and so on and so forth.
Everybody had written theirmessages, Siva Gagan, all of
(15:52):
everybody had written messages,and which was our own way to
motivate each other. We hadcountries where, you know, the
smaller continent, but somebodygoing to play and they'll do a
guard of honor, they'll tap anddo something, you know, evenings
will celebrate, so on and soforth. So there was a lot the, I
(16:14):
think, the the human vibrancyand and positivity to that was
quite something. And to me, Ialways remember this, the this
couple of weeks that I was atthe Olympics with this because I
think that aspect was, was
Divya Jain (16:37):
quite, quite nice for me. Actually. What was most
fascinating was you, you enterthis gym, which is this. I mean,
imagine a gym for all theOlympians in the world, right?
And you imagine about 200 ofthem working out, about 50 odd
people running on treadmills,all sorts of things. And then
you go up the first floor, andinside the gym, you enter
(16:59):
something called the mind zone,which is essentially a mental
gym, right? So players canactually go in. And a lot of
players were using it eveningsbefore their competition
throughout where you could usesome virtual reality simulation
to build some confidence orrelax yourself. You could do
some painting. You could do somewriting, send a letter, a
postcard. Back home, they hadcounselors there to talk to as
(17:23):
well if someone needed to. Buthaving a space recognizing that
the mental health aspect is justas important as the physical and
the need to come in together,right? So, yes, a lot of people
will say that the mental aspectof the game is something that
has to be prepared well inadvance, and that's true, you
will need four years, eightyears, 10 years, just like you
(17:44):
would with physical training, toalso build up your mental skill
right at the same time. There isalso a lot that can be done in
those few days, because that issuch a high pressure moment.
It's there's a once in alifetime so many 10 year old
athletes you talk to now, andyou ask them, Why are you
playing? And they're saying, Oh,we want to be in the Olympics in
(18:05):
2036 and they're dreaming aboutthat right now. Some have
tattoos. Some have posters ontheir walls. Some have it in
their diaries. So this is amoment that they've been looking
forward to for that long, whatthey've been training for. So
the kind of pressures that theyexperience at that time. At the
same time, there's a lot ofchatter that also increases.
(18:25):
Suddenly, your following onsocial media increases. Media
influences increase. All ofthose things happen. So it is a
very, very high stressenvironment. How you navigate
that, how you make sure that youdon't try too hard, but you do
what you do every day, andthat's how you're able to
perform your best. And I thinkanother crucial aspect is not
(18:45):
just in the lead up to thegames, but actually what happens
after the game, after a match,whether you win a medal, whether
you don't win a medal, how doyou deal with those wins and
losses? How do you make surethat you're able to maintain
that morale? Because, I mean,let's face it, right, in any
game, three people with minimummedal in a sport and 40 or 50
won't how do you let that affectyou? How do you make that
(19:09):
motivate you further, so thatyou're back at it again, back on
the field the next day? And Ithink that was, that was
interesting for me. Wow. I
Tara Khandelwal (19:18):
can only imagine. I mean, I'm just so
fascinated by how theseathletes, to me, they're sort
of, you know, superhuman,because they kind of almost
perform these super human feats.
So what you know was your role,was it sort of, you would have
sessions with these athletes,or, you know, you were just
there, and they would come toyou, talk to you, could you just
(19:38):
walk me through a little bitmore about how that looked like,
Divya Jain (19:41):
yes. So it was a it was a combination. So our role
there was that of a wellness,mental wellness expert, right?
And you recognize that playersagain, have been working, have
been training for a long timewith their own team, with their
own coaches, psychologists,physiotherapists, and all of
those aspects. So our role.
There was to was to be availablefor anyone who required certain
(20:03):
kind of help, for people to knowthat there is help available,
being there, being present atall times. So there were some
players who were able toapproach us, talk to us again
the day before a match, the dayafter a match, both aspects some
would you're going to watchcertain matches as well, be a
part of the celebrations. Alsomake sure that there was a sense
(20:26):
of team camaraderie. That wasalso that players could
experience how they were able tomotivate each other, how impacts
of one sport or one event, whatkind of impact that was
happening on players of otherevents. What were the kind of
conversations going on there?
What was the kind of setup thatwas created over there? How do
they stay motivated? How do theystay positive? Those are some of
(20:49):
the things that we were doing.
So it was with psychology. Thething is that you have to be
mindful. I mean, in any field,in fact, of where you're
intervening, how much you'reintervening. So you have to
there are spaces where even afive minute conversation before
a match can make a difference,right? So recognizing where
those spots are, recognizingwhere you can do that,
(21:09):
recognizing where people needtheir own space, where they
actually need their own supportsystems, their own friends and
family to be there, present, andso playing with that kind of
dynamic nature of the field.
Tara Khandelwal (21:22):
So how do you even train to sort of be a
sports psychologist? And wereany of you sportsmen, sports
people growing up?
Samir Parikh (21:31):
No, what I did cannot be called sports, but I'd
like to believe it, and so wouldmy school teachers. But not the
least, it was just anembarrassment, whatever it was.
But I think Divya is a bit of acompetitive person. I'm a very
relaxed putting just about theeffort that I can Divya is very
(21:54):
competitive person. I thinkshe'll be able to answer this.
So, no,
Divya Jain (21:59):
I have a similar answer to Dr parek, in the sense
that I used to play badminton,but any badminton player would
disagree. They would not thinkthat that was badminton that was
happening. And I think maybe ifI had better support at that
time, when I was 14 years old, Imight have become a badminton
player. I was always somewhere,an aspiration, but not something
(22:21):
I ever felt I could reach. So,so, yes, but and I so this is
something I often joke about. Iam a competitive person, but I'm
competitive even if I'm playingLudo and every point I want to
win, but I'm perfectly fine if Idon't, right if I lose, I'm not
a sore loser. I think that'ssomething that Dr Parekh would
have to agree with I like tofocus. I like to give it my
(22:44):
best, because I think that'swhere the most fun can be had.
And that's also, that's my verydeep answer to why I became a
sports psychologist as well. Itwas fun, right? I combined two
of my favorite fields together,and you tell me that I can do
that job where I can be a partof sport and do psychology, it
was perfect for me. And so tobecome a sports psychologist,
(23:07):
you need to have a background inpsychology. So a bachelor's
degree in psychology, typicallywould be ideal. And after that,
now, because of the emphasisthat the government is putting
on promoting sport, there arenow a few masters programs in
sports psychology as welldedicated which have come up.
These didn't exist back when Iwas studying for them. I sound
(23:30):
like a bit of a fossil when Isay that, but so I did a lot of
certifications after my mastersin in psychology to add on to
that. But yes, now you willdefinitely have fantastic
options of masters programs insports psychology. And there is
much of a demand for people tobe doing this field and get be
getting absorbed pretty fast.
Oh, it
Tara Khandelwal (23:50):
sounds like a really, really up and coming and
fascinating field of study. I'msure it'll only grow. And I
think you know, as Dr Parekhsaid, also that importance of
sports psychology and psychologyin general is increasing. I
remember, when I was in college,this was in 2008 head start
college, I actually wanted tostudy psychology, and I was
(24:13):
considering becoming apsychologist. At that time, I
was told that nobody goes totherapy, nobody goes to therapy.
Won't make any money. There'snobody who sort of, there's no
demand for that. You know, itwas a very different ecosystem
at that time. So I thinkdefinitely things are changing
for the better. I also want toknow the process of, sort of, co
(24:33):
authoring this book. How did youdecide that, okay, you know, now
is the time we want to writethis book. Was there any trigger
point, and how did you dividethe work between yourselves?
What was that whole processlike?
Samir Parikh (24:45):
We've been wanting to write for a while, and then
life just passes by, and youfind things to do with it.
Again, you feel that you shoulddo it, and then again, you
forget it. And then you have a.
Publish from Rupa publication toremind you that you promised me
a book, and then it's okay,fine, I'm starting here. Then
(25:05):
you again, let it be and thenyou again, get a reminder, so on
and so forth. And then theOlympics happen, and that's when
this idea got a lot betterformed. That one has been
working for several years nowwith athletes, if that skill set
that the athletes develop toreach the highest level, how
(25:26):
about students, young people,people starting their careers,
people in leadership position,how much it can help them as
well, and that's how this wholeidea came. And then it was most
words of Divya and a little bitof fine tuning by me, because
(25:47):
the younger person does moreeffort in the room, as simple as
that.
Divya Jain (25:54):
So the way I like to look at it, sports psychology
was me, and life lessons was Drparek, and that was an
interesting way of putting ittogether. And yes, I've often
received these taunts about thedelays in the book, and used to
them now. And writing a book isalso just like any other field
of performance. It's aboutputting yourself out there. And
that can be a lot of resistancewe could experience even in the
(26:17):
field like this, just like anyother and there were times when
I actually had to use some ofwhat I was writing to keep
myself motivated, to overcome myown self doubts in that moment,
to get some coaching from DrPaik at moments where I would
feel stuck. So it's it's been aninteresting journey, and it's
something that has made me moreempathetic towards a lot of
(26:39):
other other performers, a lot ofartists as well. Oh,
Tara Khandelwal (26:43):
that's very interesting. Yeah. It is all
about sort of, you know,performance, I think. And that's
one of the things that I reallylike in the book. This, one of
the strongest messages is thatthis book isn't just for
athletes, it's for anyone whowants to be the best at what
they do. You know, whetheryou're an entrepreneur, they're
a professional, because it's allabout, you know how every small
(27:05):
win matters, how every setbackalso, you know should not cause
you to give up, but maybe youknow you have to keep going
despite those setbacks. And I'ma solo founder, and I've been
doing this, running my owncompany for eight years now, and
there have been a lot of momentswhere I've just wanted to quit.
(27:27):
You know, there have been somereally high highs and some
really low lows. And I think,you know, one of the things that
I've also learned, which Iresonated in the in the book, is
often as it will happen, is Iwould, I would, something good
would happen, then you'd veryquickly move on. But if
something bad happens and yousort of dwell on that moment, so
(27:48):
I think definitely that thisbook is very relevant for non
sports people as well, and helpthem keep them or al high one of
the things I really liked in thebook is a story of Jana novatna,
who was just a game away fromwinning the Wimbledon, and she
double faulted, and she ended uplosing in what's considered one
(28:08):
of the biggest jokes in sportshistory. I love watching tennis.
It's very interesting story. Andwhat stood out was she came
back, she didn't give up, andshe finally won Wimbledon 1998
and you use this example to showthat legacies aren't built on a
single moment, but on theability to bounce back. So you
(28:28):
know, what are some of the keymental strategies that you would
recommend for athletes or foranyone, to help them shift from
disappointment to determination?
Divya Jain (28:39):
I think if you're a non athlete, I would tell you to
watch sport, because I thinkthat's one aspect that really
helps you overcome these losses.
And this particular example isstuck. Even my dad came up to me
when he was reading the book. Hesaid, I remember watching this
match, and I remember whathappened later as well. These
are some of the stories that wehave grown up hearing about
witnessing experiences. Andthere are a lot of examples,
(29:02):
right? You'll hear a federal saythe same thing. The recent match
with similar and alkaras was wasan example of what was going on.
The current Wimbledon is a veryinteresting example of the kind
of highs and lows that peopleare experiencing. But again, so
there are some specificstrategies that each of us can
use to overcome these setbacks.
(29:23):
Yes, we can say, don't give up.
Try again, but a lot of this isactually a game of focus, right?
So when we have a so called badmoment, a lot of times, our
focus tends to get stuck in thatmoment. Our focus shifts into
the into the past, right? Sowhat is actually the right
technique at that moment is, howdo we bring our focus back into
the present moment? So a lot ofplayers use this switch off,
(29:45):
switch on technique, where theydisconnect from the previous
point that's happened. Shift thefocus to something unrelated to
the game. You know, it could bea little song Someone is
singing. It could be looking atsome birds. It could be. Talking
to someone else, if you have achance to their pre performance,
pre point routines that playershave, so that they're able to
bring their mind out of thatmoment, bring it into the
(30:10):
present moment. Focus a lot moreon their actual environment, you
know, a very multi sensoryexperience. Focus on what you're
seeing, what you're hearing,what you're able to feel at that
time and then that that'sactually something that can help
you focus a lot more on the nextpoint, also recognizing some of
these gaps a lot of times. Youknow, players deliberately do
things differently after amistake as a as a way of
(30:33):
overcompensating. So make surethat they don't try too hard,
they don't give up, but theymake sure that they go back to
their game plan, continue doingwhat they were supposed to do.
It's, you know, it's like Isaid, when your mobile phone
starts to glitch, you switch itoff and you restart it, and it
starts working again. So that, Ithink, is the best way to to
overcome a setback.
Tara Khandelwal (30:56):
Yeah, it sounds very easy, but very difficult to
put into practice when you're inthat in that mental space, I'm
sure for athletes, they'reprobably sort of much better at
this. I was very also fascinatedby, you know, speaking of
Wimbledon, you said that that isone of the sports where actually
there's a lot of downtime, andthat leads to something called
(31:18):
anticipatory anxiety, which Ifound very interesting, because
I think, you know, that wasfinally a word that made sense
for a lot of us. You know thatanticipation before the exam, or
before you have to go on a stageand speak publicly, you know
that is often worse than sort ofwhen you're doing the task
itself, the anticipation of thetask. So how you know, how do
(31:41):
you overcome that
Samir Parikh (31:42):
anticipation is bound to happen right now. One
you need to back yourself, andyou can back yourself if you've
practiced enough, if you'veresearched it off, if you've,
ah, simulated your practice inthe right manner, if you've
looked at most scenarios, youcould be a student. You could be
(32:03):
having a big meeting, whateverit is. I mean, some amount of
anticipatory anxiety in any caseis needed, because if you are
just not bothered about it, youprobably never do well. So you
it needs to psych you up. Youneed to want to do well, and
that will give you a bit of anarousal, which you now need to
harness to be able to put theeffort and then you back
(32:23):
yourself, and that's how youharness this anxiety, so that
you can work well. But if, let'ssay, the anxiety starts
impacting you negatively, yoursleep, your thought process,
your belief system, confidence,if all of that starts getting
impacted your mind is giving youall sorts of negative thoughts.
(32:44):
This is when you need to lookinto your past look into your
past performances, see whatyou've done, then remind
yourself of that. This is whenyou talk to your coach. This is
when to when you talk to yourfamily, friends and well
wishers. This is when you lookat your own past performance and
some recordings, and you alsotalk to your mental health
(33:05):
support system, and then you tryand figure it out. Then how do
you still keep moving forward?
Because once you are in it andyou are in the flow, then all of
this is going to start fallingin place as well, and that's the
way to look at it. I don't seeanticipatory anxiety by itself
is a negative thing. I thinksome of it is needed. It's just
how do you harness it?
Tara Khandelwal (33:26):
And I also wanted to ask about the pre
preparation rituals that youspoke about in the book, and how
that sort of also helps withperformance, you know. So could
you speak a little bit about yousaid that Nadal does certain
things, you know, and everyathlete has these little rituals
that they do. And I recently sawthe f1 movie, and in that movie,
he puts a playing card into hispocket, and he doesn't see sort
(33:49):
of what the card is till afterhe races. So I find these pre
preparation rituals veryinteresting. Why are they
important? So they zone you in,
Samir Parikh (33:59):
and they bring a rhythm to your performance.
There is so much ofunpredictability, so much of
uncertainty. You don't know howthe dice is going to fall today.
You need some some sense of youknow that there is a bit of
(34:20):
structure. There is a bit of aroutine and rhythm into this
chaos that may soon happen, andthat's how I look at it. I mean,
Divya has a lot, many moreexamples. I must tell you that,
as a very young person inschool, I remember the red
handkerchief of Mohandas. You'dheard about how Mr. Gasker would
(34:41):
prepare before a test match. Yousome of some people would, you
know, put the left back first.
Somebody would do somethingelse, that all of this was in
their own way, zoning in, thatpeople would be getting it.
Because this is when you psychyourself. Path at the same time,
you bring a structure to thechaos that's now going to happen
(35:02):
so soon.
Divya Jain (35:05):
Yes. So routines matter a lot in sport and across
like you were talking aboutanticipatory anxiety, right? So
these pre performance routinesare something that can actually
help us cope and harness withthis anxiety very well. An
example, I remember once workingwith an athlete where they would
and this is pretty common, theywould perform a lot better if
(35:27):
their match was in the morninghours, and they would not
perform as well if their matchwas in the evening hours,
because they had so much moretime to just think and worry
about what was going to happen.
Now obviously we can't controlthe schedule. So what we do? We
put a routine in place. So ifyour match is in the evening,
which is going to happen often,what are the things that you
need to do during your day sothat you're able to stay
(35:50):
relaxed, you're able to stayfocused at the same time, you
don't let the worry overwhelmyou. What then comes next is,
you know, the color of theclothes that you're going to be
wearing, because that also issomething that starts to matter.
In fact, in certain sports, it'sbeen found statistically found,
for example, in boxing, it'sbeen statistically found that
the player who wears red tendsto win a little bit more often.
(36:12):
I'm not going to get into thepsychology of that, but so
that's another interestingelement, but mostly it's a
mostly it's a personalassociation that you have with a
certain thing. So it's importantfor all of us to feel confident.
And while a lot of thatconfidence will come from our
preparation, will come from ourpast experiences, if we feel
(36:35):
like we can create a little bitof our own luck, and that's
something that's going to helpus, because if I feel like I'm
I've put in the effort and I'mlucky, that's going to make me
go after those moments a lotmore. So I am going to die for
that catch. I am going tosprint. I am going to give it
everything I've got. So thatlittle bit of luck is something
that just boosts our confidencelittle bit
Tara Khandelwal (36:59):
more. It reminds me of in Harry Potter,
when Harry, sort of, you know,gives Ron the felix felicis,
which is actually he doesn'tgive it, but Ron thinks he's
given it to him, and it's aelixir of luck. And Ron really
smashes it out of the game andthe Quidditch match. And then he
realizes, Oh, it was he didn'thave anything at all. It was
just his performance. And thatwas such a lovely sort of
(37:21):
indicator on, you know, how whenyou're feeling good, when you're
feeling confident, when you'refeeling lucky, you can perform.
And it's so much about thatmental state that you're in.
Speaking about, you know,support systems. And you
mentioned that a strong supportsystem is very key for athletes.
I've seen it in my own cousin,my cousin's parents, you know,
(37:42):
they've given up a lot for herto train. They've traveled with
her. You know, even her sisteris very much there for her, the
coach. There's a whole team thatis there that is surrounding
her. But what if an athletefeels like the inner circle is
not supportive or, you know,somebody who wants to play sport
but doesn't have the parentssupporting them as they should
(38:02):
be. How can they find or build ahealthier environment? How do
you navigate that?
Samir Parikh (38:08):
No, that's a tough one, right? Because a lot of
athletes, their formative yearsare as much younger people,
where you are very muchdependent in various various
aspects of your life on yourparents. So the support system
is important. And yes, as yougrow up, that support system
(38:31):
will shape around you. And yes,there will be times in your life
when some aspects or somevectors of that support system
may not be functioning the wayyou would have wanted them to.
People have had change ofcoaches. People have changed
their psychologists. People havechanged their nutritionist,
their physical trainers. Peoplehave gone through, you know,
(38:55):
separating from their practicepartners. These things do happen
because, like how in life,relationships don't always
follow a constant. It applies toathletes as well. Having said
that, a support system will makea huge difference. Now, yes, in
the evolution, you may havetransitions, including in your
(39:22):
support system, that's there,but, but I do feel family
support does matter.
Tara Khandelwal (39:28):
Yeah, it seems like that. Because from whatever
stories that we've heard and andall of the even Tiger words or
any of these athletes, it seemslike you know, the parental
figures have been very, veryimportant in their formative
years, and that's actually madea big difference. So that, I
mean, that is quite interesting.
We see stories like that acrossthe board. But for parents
(39:49):
listening to this podcast whowant to support their kids in
any competitive field andsports, what's one simple thing
they can do to help the childbuild a positive. Of healthy
mindset from a young age.
Samir Parikh (40:02):
Just a couple of things from my side, and let the
technicalities come from theexpert here. Honest. One is then
just help them enjoy. Don't makethis everything into pressure.
Everything is not an exam.
Everything is not about how manymarks you got if you are
enjoying and if you are focusingon upping your abilities, your
skill set, your performanceevery time you go out on the
(40:24):
field, the natural course ofsuccess is going to happen at
the same time. Try and ensurethat you are able to give the
best that is available in termsof skill building and support
system as well, and look at whatfits in with your child and not
what comes with the brand. Soit's not that just because a
(40:47):
particular coach, a particularmental health expert has worked
with XYZ, it's going to alsowork for this young individual.
It's a fit. So you'll need towait for that fit and facilitate
that fit to happen. That's howyou should do, which will make
sure that everything that'sneeded is there, and the
(41:08):
individual enjoys. Divyamentioned about her career, very
similar that I can say forworking now as a psychiatrist,
like I said, just under 30 yearsand that is very much like that.
If I am able to find meaning andI'm able to experience joy in
(41:29):
what I am doing, I will end upbringing my best out there
repeatedly, again and again, andthen somebody needs to help me
harness that. And that's how Ilook at
Divya Jain (41:43):
it. I actually see it as an extension of what Dr
PARIKH has said, just to put itslightly more technically. So
one, there is no replacement forfun when it comes to focus,
because fun is actually the mosteffective strategy to focus on
the present moment, right? Ifyou're having fun, you will not
be thinking about auto homeworktomorrow or what fight happened
yesterday, you're going to be inthat moment. And for me, that is
(42:04):
what mental strength is also,which is to recognize what is
important and to be able tofocus on that at that moment. So
while we encourage kids to havefun, I'd want parents to also
role model that behaviorthemselves, right? So we can't
just tell a child or resultsdon't matter. Just give it your
best, but you yourself are doingthe mathematics of, oh, which
(42:25):
round Oh, how many points? Howdid you lose this point? Which
is the easy player? Which is thedifficult player? It is going to
require some amount of selfrestraint, because it's
something we've been used to forso long, but from our own
perspective, also recognizingwhat is important in that
moment, making sure we do that,we are able to role model that
behavior, and that's going tohave far more impact than what
(42:47):
we say to the player, because atthe end of the day, we have to
realize, I think, life is a teamsport. It's not an individual
sport, and each person needs todo their part.
Tara Khandelwal (42:55):
I don't think, you know, growing up in India,
we're taught that that's a goodthing, necessarily. But I do
think that, especially for me, Ithink, yeah, my best performance
is also when that joy is there.
And I think that holds true forall all human beings, and we
should be sort of celebratingand appreciating that life is
also about having fun and havingthat joy. You know, it's not all
(43:19):
sort of hard work. And I mean,obviously it is hard work, but
it's not that doesn't have to bein tandem with sort of
suffering. Okay, so now thisbrings me to my last section of
the interview, which is therapid fire round. I'm going to
ask you a few questions that youhave to give only one word
answers
Divya Jain (43:38):
to. Okay, so
Tara Khandelwal (43:42):
who's a sports person you think has the
strongest mental game right now?
No,
Samir Parikh (43:46):
I will always go back to history. For me, it will
always be Sachin Tendulkar,hundreds and hundreds of years
down the lane. One person always
Tara Khandelwal (43:55):
love it. What about you? Divine? Because Roger
feiter. Roger. I loved that. Iloved his speech about how he
lost, I think, I don't know theexact statistic, but almost half
of his points, and how he justkept going. I think that was
just such a I think it was oneof the greatest speeches ever.
(44:16):
Okay, one word you'd use todescribe a true champion
Samir Parikh (44:20):
in values, that's how you become, where you
become. You take values out ofthe context you it's not
humankind cannot be completewithout that confidence.
Tara Khandelwal (44:30):
Confidence, yeah, your favorite sports movie
of all
Samir Parikh (44:34):
time. Sports movie, shadows of fire. Haven't
Divya Jain (44:38):
seen one in a
Samir Parikh (44:41):
while. I know Divya favorite. I'll tell you
Divya favorite,
Tara Khandelwal (44:43):
chant day chagde. Love it. Your favorite
sports book?
Samir Parikh (44:50):
One of my favorite sports book was a book on the
Indian spin quartre, which is onthe live. Of Miss vedi suprasana
Venkataraman and Mr. ChandraShekhar. Fascinating, fabulous,
great resilience and very, veryinspiring. I'm actually
Divya Jain (45:12):
reading something called 12 yards right now, which
is about penalty shootouts andthe preparation and the psyche
of someone who's actually aboutto make that that kick at that
moment. Wow. And what's yourfavorite spot to watch?
Samir Parikh (45:27):
It'll be cricket.
But Test cricket, I need to bevery, very clear. Not T 20, not
one day, none of those 10, oh,10 and hundreds and not, not a
test. Thanks for
Divya Jain (45:42):
me. It's badminton.
Although, ever since working andgetting involved in Olympic
sport, I find myself enjoyinglawn bowling, track and field,
javelin was a lot of fun towatch. Golf, all of those, all
of those events as
Tara Khandelwal (45:58):
well. Oh, that's absolutely fantastic. I
think this has been, I thinksuch a fascinating conversation
for me. I think I could justkeep going on and on. It was so
great. Talking to both of youtoday. Thank you for sharing
your insights and to everyonelistening. Thank you for tuning
into Books and Beyond. If youhave a friend who wants to learn
how to build a champion mindset,send them this episode. And if
(46:20):
you've got a story about howyou've developed your own
champion mindset, drop it in thecomments. Don't forget to follow
us on Spotify, Apple podcast, orwherever you listen to your
podcast. Hope you enjoy thisepisode of Books and
Michelle D'costa (46:34):
Beyond with bound. This podcast is created
by bound, a company that helpsyou grow through story. Find us
at Tom India on all social media
Tara Khandelwal (46:43):
platforms. Tune in every Wednesday as we peek
into the lives and minds of somebrilliant authors from India and
South Asia. You.
Tara, hi everyone. This is Books and
Beyond, where you get to hearstraight from the authors who
make us laugh, cry, think andcheer. I'm your host. Tara
kandiral, I'm so excited fortoday's episode because we get
to dive into the championmindset. But before we do that,
take a second to hit that followbutton on Spotify Apple podcast
or wherever you're listening,and don't forget to follow us on
Instagram for updates aboutbooks and beyond. So let's get
(00:35):
into it. What does it take toreally be a sportsman, great
passion, a bit of madness. I'vealways been really fascinated by
what it takes for someone tobecome a true champion. And 2025
has already been a year ofcomebacks. RCB finally won the
IPL Totten and Hotspur liftedthe Europa League trophy after
(00:55):
17 years. Nico hirkenberg gothis first Formula One podium
after 15 years of trying. Andthese stories sound like fairy
tales, but they're really aboutpatience and relentless
dedication. And as somebody whohas studied psychology, and my
cousin is actually India numberone in squash, and I've seen her
(01:17):
sort of go through her sportspsychology journey, I was very,
very excited to interviewtoday's guest, Dr Sameer Parekh,
Chairperson of the 40s NationalMental Health Program, and Divya
Jain, sports psychologist, headof psychological services at
Fortis. And they're here to talkabout their new book, The
champion within which honestlyreads like a manual for not just
(01:39):
building a great athlete, but agreat mindset. So let's get into
the nitty gritties of sportspsychology. Hi. Dr Parekh, hi.
Divya, hi. So in the championwithin, you break down every
aspect of what it takes tobecoming a champion, and you do
it in very relatable ways. Forexample, you explain how having
a vision for success is likedriving a car, keeping your eyes
(02:01):
on the road, but never losingsight of where you're going. And
it's clear that you wanted thisbook to reach a lot beyond just
athletes. So what did you havein mind when you wrote this
book, and Who's your idealleader? The
Samir Parikh (02:16):
whole idea is that one needs to look at when to
apply these principles whichhelp athletes, elite athlete at
the highest level, and how theycan be used for all of us, it's
not that our struggles are alsonot there. It's not that a exam
going student doesn't go throughtheir struggle, an employee who
(02:40):
has targets not go throughstruggles. It's not some of us
who do not have our motivationsgoing up and down the pressures
and rigors of life multiplevectors acting on us. And all of
us in our journey have our upsand downs. And when you compare
this to the life of an eliteathlete like you were just
(03:01):
mentioning that the pressure isso many times different. The
shelf life of how many years youhave to be able to perform at a
certain level is much lesserthan an average individual
longitudinal axis of working asall of us do, and the kind of
pressures that are there notchesof the self, but competitive
(03:24):
aspect as well as the observeand so many people following you
and critiquing you both. So whenyou look at that aspect, the
idea was that if an athlete,year after year, game after
game, tournament aftertournament, can try and up their
game, maintain theirperformance. How about all of us
(03:45):
also learn from some of thethings that people like to be
almost a sports psychologistwhen they work with athletes. If
we use the same things, we canactually manage our own
performances and successes a bitbetter.
Divya Jain (03:58):
Yeah, when we talk about some of these mental
skills, sometimes it feels likeit's easier said than done. But
when we're able to use some ofthese metaphors from the field
of sport, when they're actuallyable to see some of these things
play out, see people actually beable to cope with that kind of
pressure, bounce back in thatway, it actually it becomes
(04:20):
quite inspiring. It becomessomething that actually can be
done. People's belief in ittends to increase, and they're
actually able to see how to goabout it. So for me, it was also
just about but bringing aboutthat vocabulary and that
relatability to people around
Tara Khandelwal (04:36):
maybe we can speak a little bit about how
both of you got into sportspsychology, because I think it's
a very interesting field. Andprobably, you know, it's more
and more up and coming in India,with even people, more people
wanting to become sportsmen. AndI think more credence also been
given to the mental aspect ofthe sport, because I find that
the most satisfying. And thenthat is often the maker makeup.
(05:00):
Break, because in sports, youcan, you know, attain the same
level of physical expertise. Butthat make or break is that
mindset.
Samir Parikh (05:07):
So I am now in the field for just under three
decades, and I've been workingas a psychiatrist for a while.
So over the years, athletes havereached out, largely in the
initial years, it was cricket.
We worked with some other fieldsas well, until 2024 when both
Divya and I went to the ParisOlympics as the mental health
(05:28):
coaches. Now, see my take onthis is that first, I don't
believe that the integrationthat should happen of mental
health and mental conditioningis happening in the right
manner. I think it's toointermittent. It's sometimes
post injury, sometimes it'safter the setback, sometimes
(05:48):
it's before a tournament. Now,compare this to physical
training. Compare this to yourcoaching. Compare this to
nutrition. Now that's nothappening intermittent. That's
not happening just before atournament. You start at the
earliest grassroot youngathletes, kilo India, state
level, district level. It is atthis level that we need to
(06:12):
integrate the mentalconditioning component, which I
don't think is happening. And ifwe don't start from there, then
suddenly, out of the blue, youjust add somebody a few weeks or
months before your tournament isnot going to give you the the
results. Yes, more people aretalking about it. That does not
mean more people are utilizingit, and we will need to
(06:35):
understand this now, whether thereluctance comes from the
understanding of the athletes attimes, whether it is coming
because of the understanding oftheir coaches. They're very
mature. There are multipleaspects here, but I do feel that
what happened right now, as inthe Paris Olympics, I think it's
a very, very important step inthe right direction. I think
(06:58):
Indian Olympic Association tookup clinically and ethically. The
Right Thing that in the medicalteam, the first time had mental
health experts, me as apsychiatrist, as a sports
psychologist, the fact that wewere able to recognize that
medical team will have a mentalhealth experts, I think that
(07:19):
that is a very important step,and one needs to hats off to
everybody who was in thedecision making here, because
this is going to shape thefuture that you will now not
have big tournaments with ourmental health experts, and
gradually you'll have moreacceptance in younger players
and at the Academy level, andI'm hoping that people will
(07:40):
integrate this a lot better. Iremember
Divya Jain (07:44):
when I got into the field of psychology, the number
of people who would come in atthat time, the kind of
acceptance that was there atthat time, versus how it has
been 15 years for me now, closeto 30 years for Dr pare. And I
see a similar kind of trendhopefully following for sports
psychology as well. It's, it'snot there yet. You know, people
(08:05):
talk so much about the mentalaspect of the game, so if you
hear, if you watch any match,you hear any commentary, you'll
realize that most of it ismental. You hear any
conversation between two people.
It could be a boss and a anassociate. It could be a teacher
and a coach, a athlete. Therewill be so much of the mental
aspect that is that isdiscussed, but we just say, you
(08:27):
know, just relax, be confident.
But how to do that is somethingthat's being missed out. And
what that does is it creates somany little gaps, it creates so
much confusion, so muchhelplessness, we stop taking
those things seriously, becausewe just start feeling it's
easier said than done. So if wecan actually break it down, we
(08:47):
can actually tell you how youcan actually build your
confidence, how you can actuallyrelax in those high pressure
moments, that is what can be agame changer.
Tara Khandelwal (08:55):
No, I can't tell you. I absolutely agree
with that, because it's so muchmental and actually, my
introduction to this whole fieldof sports psychology, because I
obviously didn't know anythingabout it was because of my
cousin, and because she's asquash player, she has a team,
and she goes to the sportspsychologist. And I was very
intrigued. I was like, Oh, whatdo you all discuss there? What
(09:16):
do you what do you guys, youknow, do? Why do you need a
sports psychologist? And thenshe explained to me that, you
know, actually, that's one ofthe most crucial members of, you
know, her performance, and it'sso mental. And because she's
already at this amazing physicallevel, and she even meditates,
and, you know, she's like, 80%of the game is mental. And then
(09:38):
when I go watch her at hertournaments and stuff as well. I
see that shift in on I see sortof all the things that she's
talking about and, you know, thepre game rituals that you
mentioned in the book, theemotional regulation. You know,
when you're on the court, youknow, even she says things like,
you know, you just let yourinstincts take over, and you
don't overthink every hit orevery swing. And so those kind
(10:01):
of things, you know, for me,seeing, seeing it up close,
because we're very close, wasvery, very fascinating, which is
why I wanted to speak to actualsports psychologists and figure
out, you know, what goes intoit. And one part of this book
that really struck me was theimportance of practicing, you
know. And you say that the bestperformance should not happen
during the match, it shouldhappen during the practice. And
(10:23):
one thing is that you shouldalso simulate, you know, the
pressure situations, becauseit's very different to practice,
you know, without having anaudience watch you and you speak
about something called theaudience effect. So I want to
hear from you. You know, whenyou are working with any of
these athletes. You know who youwork with? What are some of the
(10:44):
ways that you help them performunder pressure? So
Divya Jain (10:47):
yes, it's a fact that our performance changes
when we're in a high pressuresituation. There's a lot of
adrenaline that's pumping. Soyou know, our breathing, our
heart rate, even our muscletension changes. The things that
we focus on, tend to change aswell, and that's where the
audience effect comes in, whichis that if you perform, if
you're really good at something,and if people are watching,
(11:09):
chances are you're going to geteven better. But if there are
areas where you are doubtful andpeople are watching, or it's
it's a harder task, then yourperformance can actually
deteriorate at that time. Soperformance is is a social
concept. Performance is not justan individual concept. This is
something we sometimes forget.
So learning to practice,learning to put ourselves in
those high stress situationswhile we are practicing, so that
(11:33):
we know how we deal with thingsgoing wrong. So we talk about
visualizing, as you know,visualizing perfect outcomes,
and imagine the forest andimagine the beaches. But at the
same time, we also need tovisualize the things that can go
wrong. And this is not aboutnegative thinking. This is about
preparing. So if I know that mygoggles are going to fill up
(11:55):
with water, what am I going todo if I know that my mic is not
going to work, or it's going tohave a glitch at a certain
point. What can I do at thattime? So practice is where
people get their confidencefrom. Practice is where our
connections are formed in ourmind, so we know Okay, Plan A is
not working. What is Plan B?
What is Plan C? What is Plan D?
And that's how we bring thattogether.
Tara Khandelwal (12:18):
Yeah, I like the example of Michael Phelps,
and when he was, you know,swimming one race, his goggles
had filled up, but because he'dalready practiced that scenario,
he knew how many strokes heneeded to do to get to the end
of the pool. And I found thatvery compelling. Because really,
you know, practice does makeperfect. And as a founder, also
(12:39):
of a company, I always tell myteam, you know, don't go into
any meetings without unprepared,like prepare for every single
meeting, because you can't justsort of rely on experience at
the end of the day. If youpractice certain situations,
it's always better. So I reallylike that part of the book, and
I'm just very fascinated. Youknow, as Dr Parekh, you said
that you were part of the Indiateam at the Paris Olympics. I
(13:02):
mean, that must have been suchan intense and incredible
experience. Could you tell me alittle bit more what it was like
being there, what kind ofpressure these athletes were
facing, and what sort of wasyour role? How did you keep
their morale and focus duringthis high stakes event?
Samir Parikh (13:19):
A couple of things to this one, I think, like I
mentioned earlier, that as amental health professional, the
fact that mental healthprofessionals went as a part of
the medical team, to me, that isthe most important aspect, and
that's something I cherish. Andthis could have been any one of
us, or anybody else, I wouldhave still felt the same,
because mental health needed tobe integrated in the life of an
(13:42):
athlete, especially for thesebig tournaments. And that, I
think, is a is kudos to IO andall the decision makers having
said that, I think it's a oncein a lifetime experience all
said and done because it wasfascinating, right? It was like
a world which could actually bea happy place, right? And a
(14:05):
world that is a world in itself,that you'll have all these areas
or buildings or homes for eachcountry. So for example, our
neighbors were Spain. So you'rewalking back at 5pm after doing
some work that you've done, andyou're crossing the dial and
(14:25):
you're alone that, and if youjust cross right and and you
realize the equal equalizer,that's what says the that there
are no stars and there are onlyathletes and coaches and
trainers and staff, and thedining area was, again, a very,
(14:46):
very fascinating area. You canimagine as big as it gets, and
you have teams from variouscountries continents, sitting
together, having their own bittheir own. Approach to it, and
you would cross some of thesebiggest names, and they'll also
be selling their food, andyou'll be doing that and sit
(15:08):
where you get a chance. It'salmost like a mini utopia of
sorts. The relaxation areas werenice as a bit of music, my
favorite bit the ice cream thatyou could have every now and
then. And I think that wholeapproach that was fascinating
and and the fact that howdifferent people prepare for
(15:32):
their own games, you would have,let's say so we had, for
example, a wall of positivitywhere everyone had written a
message, from PT Usha to toNiraj, to Prakash, padugo and
Bucha and so on and so forth.
Everybody had written theirmessages, Siva Gagan, all of
(15:52):
everybody had written messages,and which was our own way to
motivate each other. We hadcountries where, you know, the
smaller continent, but somebodygoing to play and they'll do a
guard of honor, they'll tap anddo something, you know, evenings
will celebrate, so on and soforth. So there was a lot the, I
(16:14):
think, the the human vibrancyand and positivity to that was
quite something. And to me, Ialways remember this, the this
couple of weeks that I was atthe Olympics with this because I
think that aspect was, was
Divya Jain (16:37):
quite, quite nice for me. Actually. What was most
fascinating was you, you enterthis gym, which is this. I mean,
imagine a gym for all theOlympians in the world, right?
And you imagine about 200 ofthem working out, about 50 odd
people running on treadmills,all sorts of things. And then
you go up the first floor, andinside the gym, you enter
(16:59):
something called the mind zone,which is essentially a mental
gym, right? So players canactually go in. And a lot of
players were using it eveningsbefore their competition
throughout where you could usesome virtual reality simulation
to build some confidence orrelax yourself. You could do
some painting. You could do somewriting, send a letter, a
postcard. Back home, they hadcounselors there to talk to as
(17:23):
well if someone needed to. Buthaving a space recognizing that
the mental health aspect is justas important as the physical and
the need to come in together,right? So, yes, a lot of people
will say that the mental aspectof the game is something that
has to be prepared well inadvance, and that's true, you
will need four years, eightyears, 10 years, just like you
(17:44):
would with physical training, toalso build up your mental skill
right at the same time. There isalso a lot that can be done in
those few days, because that issuch a high pressure moment.
It's there's a once in alifetime so many 10 year old
athletes you talk to now, andyou ask them, Why are you
playing? And they're saying, Oh,we want to be in the Olympics in
(18:05):
2036 and they're dreaming aboutthat right now. Some have
tattoos. Some have posters ontheir walls. Some have it in
their diaries. So this is amoment that they've been looking
forward to for that long, whatthey've been training for. So
the kind of pressures that theyexperience at that time. At the
same time, there's a lot ofchatter that also increases.
(18:25):
Suddenly, your following onsocial media increases. Media
influences increase. All ofthose things happen. So it is a
very, very high stressenvironment. How you navigate
that, how you make sure that youdon't try too hard, but you do
what you do every day, andthat's how you're able to
perform your best. And I thinkanother crucial aspect is not
(18:45):
just in the lead up to thegames, but actually what happens
after the game, after a match,whether you win a medal, whether
you don't win a medal, how doyou deal with those wins and
losses? How do you make surethat you're able to maintain
that morale? Because, I mean,let's face it, right, in any
game, three people with minimummedal in a sport and 40 or 50
won't how do you let that affectyou? How do you make that
(19:09):
motivate you further, so thatyou're back at it again, back on
the field the next day? And Ithink that was, that was
interesting for me. Wow. I
Tara Khandelwal (19:18):
can only imagine. I mean, I'm just so
fascinated by how theseathletes, to me, they're sort
of, you know, superhuman,because they kind of almost
perform these super human feats.
So what you know was your role,was it sort of, you would have
sessions with these athletes,or, you know, you were just
there, and they would come toyou, talk to you, could you just
(19:38):
walk me through a little bitmore about how that looked like,
Divya Jain (19:41):
yes. So it was a it was a combination. So our role
there was that of a wellness,mental wellness expert, right?
And you recognize that playersagain, have been working, have
been training for a long timewith their own team, with their
own coaches, psychologists,physiotherapists, and all of
those aspects. So our role.
There was to was to be availablefor anyone who required certain
(20:03):
kind of help, for people to knowthat there is help available,
being there, being present atall times. So there were some
players who were able toapproach us, talk to us again
the day before a match, the dayafter a match, both aspects some
would you're going to watchcertain matches as well, be a
part of the celebrations. Alsomake sure that there was a sense
(20:26):
of team camaraderie. That wasalso that players could
experience how they were able tomotivate each other, how impacts
of one sport or one event, whatkind of impact that was
happening on players of otherevents. What were the kind of
conversations going on there?
What was the kind of setup thatwas created over there? How do
they stay motivated? How do theystay positive? Those are some of
(20:49):
the things that we were doing.
So it was with psychology. Thething is that you have to be
mindful. I mean, in any field,in fact, of where you're
intervening, how much you'reintervening. So you have to
there are spaces where even afive minute conversation before
a match can make a difference,right? So recognizing where
those spots are, recognizingwhere you can do that,
(21:09):
recognizing where people needtheir own space, where they
actually need their own supportsystems, their own friends and
family to be there, present, andso playing with that kind of
dynamic nature of the field.
Tara Khandelwal (21:22):
So how do you even train to sort of be a
sports psychologist? And wereany of you sportsmen, sports
people growing up?
Samir Parikh (21:31):
No, what I did cannot be called sports, but I'd
like to believe it, and so wouldmy school teachers. But not the
least, it was just anembarrassment, whatever it was.
But I think Divya is a bit of acompetitive person. I'm a very
relaxed putting just about theeffort that I can Divya is very
(21:54):
competitive person. I thinkshe'll be able to answer this.
So, no,
Divya Jain (21:59):
I have a similar answer to Dr parek, in the sense
that I used to play badminton,but any badminton player would
disagree. They would not thinkthat that was badminton that was
happening. And I think maybe ifI had better support at that
time, when I was 14 years old, Imight have become a badminton
player. I was always somewhere,an aspiration, but not something
(22:21):
I ever felt I could reach. So,so, yes, but and I so this is
something I often joke about. Iam a competitive person, but I'm
competitive even if I'm playingLudo and every point I want to
win, but I'm perfectly fine if Idon't, right if I lose, I'm not
a sore loser. I think that'ssomething that Dr Parekh would
have to agree with I like tofocus. I like to give it my
(22:44):
best, because I think that'swhere the most fun can be had.
And that's also, that's my verydeep answer to why I became a
sports psychologist as well. Itwas fun, right? I combined two
of my favorite fields together,and you tell me that I can do
that job where I can be a partof sport and do psychology, it
was perfect for me. And so tobecome a sports psychologist,
(23:07):
you need to have a background inpsychology. So a bachelor's
degree in psychology, typicallywould be ideal. And after that,
now, because of the emphasisthat the government is putting
on promoting sport, there arenow a few masters programs in
sports psychology as welldedicated which have come up.
These didn't exist back when Iwas studying for them. I sound
(23:30):
like a bit of a fossil when Isay that, but so I did a lot of
certifications after my mastersin in psychology to add on to
that. But yes, now you willdefinitely have fantastic
options of masters programs insports psychology. And there is
much of a demand for people tobe doing this field and get be
getting absorbed pretty fast.
Oh, it
Tara Khandelwal (23:50):
sounds like a really, really up and coming and
fascinating field of study. I'msure it'll only grow. And I
think you know, as Dr Parekhsaid, also that importance of
sports psychology and psychologyin general is increasing. I
remember, when I was in college,this was in 2008 head start
college, I actually wanted tostudy psychology, and I was
(24:13):
considering becoming apsychologist. At that time, I
was told that nobody goes totherapy, nobody goes to therapy.
Won't make any money. There'snobody who sort of, there's no
demand for that. You know, itwas a very different ecosystem
at that time. So I thinkdefinitely things are changing
for the better. I also want toknow the process of, sort of, co
(24:33):
authoring this book. How did youdecide that, okay, you know, now
is the time we want to writethis book. Was there any trigger
point, and how did you dividethe work between yourselves?
What was that whole processlike?
Samir Parikh (24:45):
We've been wanting to write for a while, and then
life just passes by, and youfind things to do with it.
Again, you feel that you shoulddo it, and then again, you
forget it. And then you have a.
Publish from Rupa publication toremind you that you promised me
a book, and then it's okay,fine, I'm starting here. Then
(25:05):
you again, let it be and thenyou again, get a reminder, so on
and so forth. And then theOlympics happen, and that's when
this idea got a lot betterformed. That one has been
working for several years nowwith athletes, if that skill set
that the athletes develop toreach the highest level, how
(25:26):
about students, young people,people starting their careers,
people in leadership position,how much it can help them as
well, and that's how this wholeidea came. And then it was most
words of Divya and a little bitof fine tuning by me, because
(25:47):
the younger person does moreeffort in the room, as simple as
that.
Divya Jain (25:54):
So the way I like to look at it, sports psychology
was me, and life lessons was Drparek, and that was an
interesting way of putting ittogether. And yes, I've often
received these taunts about thedelays in the book, and used to
them now. And writing a book isalso just like any other field
of performance. It's aboutputting yourself out there. And
that can be a lot of resistancewe could experience even in the
(26:17):
field like this, just like anyother and there were times when
I actually had to use some ofwhat I was writing to keep
myself motivated, to overcome myown self doubts in that moment,
to get some coaching from DrPaik at moments where I would
feel stuck. So it's it's been aninteresting journey, and it's
something that has made me moreempathetic towards a lot of
(26:39):
other other performers, a lot ofartists as well. Oh,
Tara Khandelwal (26:43):
that's very interesting. Yeah. It is all
about sort of, you know,performance, I think. And that's
one of the things that I reallylike in the book. This, one of
the strongest messages is thatthis book isn't just for
athletes, it's for anyone whowants to be the best at what
they do. You know, whetheryou're an entrepreneur, they're
a professional, because it's allabout, you know how every small
(27:05):
win matters, how every setbackalso, you know should not cause
you to give up, but maybe youknow you have to keep going
despite those setbacks. And I'ma solo founder, and I've been
doing this, running my owncompany for eight years now, and
there have been a lot of momentswhere I've just wanted to quit.
(27:27):
You know, there have been somereally high highs and some
really low lows. And I think,you know, one of the things that
I've also learned, which Iresonated in the in the book, is
often as it will happen, is Iwould, I would, something good
would happen, then you'd veryquickly move on. But if
something bad happens and yousort of dwell on that moment, so
(27:48):
I think definitely that thisbook is very relevant for non
sports people as well, and helpthem keep them or al high one of
the things I really liked in thebook is a story of Jana novatna,
who was just a game away fromwinning the Wimbledon, and she
double faulted, and she ended uplosing in what's considered one
(28:08):
of the biggest jokes in sportshistory. I love watching tennis.
It's very interesting story. Andwhat stood out was she came
back, she didn't give up, andshe finally won Wimbledon 1998
and you use this example to showthat legacies aren't built on a
single moment, but on theability to bounce back. So you
(28:28):
know, what are some of the keymental strategies that you would
recommend for athletes or foranyone, to help them shift from
disappointment to determination?
Divya Jain (28:39):
I think if you're a non athlete, I would tell you to
watch sport, because I thinkthat's one aspect that really
helps you overcome these losses.
And this particular example isstuck. Even my dad came up to me
when he was reading the book. Hesaid, I remember watching this
match, and I remember whathappened later as well. These
are some of the stories that wehave grown up hearing about
witnessing experiences. Andthere are a lot of examples,
(29:02):
right? You'll hear a federal saythe same thing. The recent match
with similar and alkaras was wasan example of what was going on.
The current Wimbledon is a veryinteresting example of the kind
of highs and lows that peopleare experiencing. But again, so
there are some specificstrategies that each of us can
use to overcome these setbacks.
(29:23):
Yes, we can say, don't give up.
Try again, but a lot of this isactually a game of focus, right?
So when we have a so called badmoment, a lot of times, our
focus tends to get stuck in thatmoment. Our focus shifts into
the into the past, right? Sowhat is actually the right
technique at that moment is, howdo we bring our focus back into
the present moment? So a lot ofplayers use this switch off,
(29:45):
switch on technique, where theydisconnect from the previous
point that's happened. Shift thefocus to something unrelated to
the game. You know, it could bea little song Someone is
singing. It could be looking atsome birds. It could be. Talking
to someone else, if you have achance to their pre performance,
pre point routines that playershave, so that they're able to
bring their mind out of thatmoment, bring it into the
(30:10):
present moment. Focus a lot moreon their actual environment, you
know, a very multi sensoryexperience. Focus on what you're
seeing, what you're hearing,what you're able to feel at that
time and then that that'sactually something that can help
you focus a lot more on the nextpoint, also recognizing some of
these gaps a lot of times. Youknow, players deliberately do
things differently after amistake as a as a way of
(30:33):
overcompensating. So make surethat they don't try too hard,
they don't give up, but theymake sure that they go back to
their game plan, continue doingwhat they were supposed to do.
It's, you know, it's like Isaid, when your mobile phone
starts to glitch, you switch itoff and you restart it, and it
starts working again. So that, Ithink, is the best way to to
overcome a setback.
Tara Khandelwal (30:56):
Yeah, it sounds very easy, but very difficult to
put into practice when you're inthat in that mental space, I'm
sure for athletes, they'reprobably sort of much better at
this. I was very also fascinatedby, you know, speaking of
Wimbledon, you said that that isone of the sports where actually
there's a lot of downtime, andthat leads to something called
(31:18):
anticipatory anxiety, which Ifound very interesting, because
I think, you know, that wasfinally a word that made sense
for a lot of us. You know thatanticipation before the exam, or
before you have to go on a stageand speak publicly, you know
that is often worse than sort ofwhen you're doing the task
itself, the anticipation of thetask. So how you know, how do
(31:41):
you overcome that
Samir Parikh (31:42):
anticipation is bound to happen right now. One
you need to back yourself, andyou can back yourself if you've
practiced enough, if you'veresearched it off, if you've,
ah, simulated your practice inthe right manner, if you've
looked at most scenarios, youcould be a student. You could be
(32:03):
having a big meeting, whateverit is. I mean, some amount of
anticipatory anxiety in any caseis needed, because if you are
just not bothered about it, youprobably never do well. So you
it needs to psych you up. Youneed to want to do well, and
that will give you a bit of anarousal, which you now need to
harness to be able to put theeffort and then you back
(32:23):
yourself, and that's how youharness this anxiety, so that
you can work well. But if, let'ssay, the anxiety starts
impacting you negatively, yoursleep, your thought process,
your belief system, confidence,if all of that starts getting
impacted your mind is giving youall sorts of negative thoughts.
(32:44):
This is when you need to lookinto your past look into your
past performances, see whatyou've done, then remind
yourself of that. This is whenyou talk to your coach. This is
when to when you talk to yourfamily, friends and well
wishers. This is when you lookat your own past performance and
some recordings, and you alsotalk to your mental health
(33:05):
support system, and then you tryand figure it out. Then how do
you still keep moving forward?
Because once you are in it andyou are in the flow, then all of
this is going to start fallingin place as well, and that's the
way to look at it. I don't seeanticipatory anxiety by itself
is a negative thing. I thinksome of it is needed. It's just
how do you harness it?
Tara Khandelwal (33:26):
And I also wanted to ask about the pre
preparation rituals that youspoke about in the book, and how
that sort of also helps withperformance, you know. So could
you speak a little bit about yousaid that Nadal does certain
things, you know, and everyathlete has these little rituals
that they do. And I recently sawthe f1 movie, and in that movie,
he puts a playing card into hispocket, and he doesn't see sort
(33:49):
of what the card is till afterhe races. So I find these pre
preparation rituals veryinteresting. Why are they
important? So they zone you in,
Samir Parikh (33:59):
and they bring a rhythm to your performance.
There is so much ofunpredictability, so much of
uncertainty. You don't know howthe dice is going to fall today.
You need some some sense of youknow that there is a bit of
(34:20):
structure. There is a bit of aroutine and rhythm into this
chaos that may soon happen, andthat's how I look at it. I mean,
Divya has a lot, many moreexamples. I must tell you that,
as a very young person inschool, I remember the red
handkerchief of Mohandas. You'dheard about how Mr. Gasker would
(34:41):
prepare before a test match. Yousome of some people would, you
know, put the left back first.
Somebody would do somethingelse, that all of this was in
their own way, zoning in, thatpeople would be getting it.
Because this is when you psychyourself. Path at the same time,
you bring a structure to thechaos that's now going to happen
(35:02):
so soon.
Divya Jain (35:05):
Yes. So routines matter a lot in sport and across
like you were talking aboutanticipatory anxiety, right? So
these pre performance routinesare something that can actually
help us cope and harness withthis anxiety very well. An
example, I remember once workingwith an athlete where they would
and this is pretty common, theywould perform a lot better if
(35:27):
their match was in the morninghours, and they would not
perform as well if their matchwas in the evening hours,
because they had so much moretime to just think and worry
about what was going to happen.
Now obviously we can't controlthe schedule. So what we do? We
put a routine in place. So ifyour match is in the evening,
which is going to happen often,what are the things that you
need to do during your day sothat you're able to stay
(35:50):
relaxed, you're able to stayfocused at the same time, you
don't let the worry overwhelmyou. What then comes next is,
you know, the color of theclothes that you're going to be
wearing, because that also issomething that starts to matter.
In fact, in certain sports, it'sbeen found statistically found,
for example, in boxing, it'sbeen statistically found that
the player who wears red tendsto win a little bit more often.
(36:12):
I'm not going to get into thepsychology of that, but so
that's another interestingelement, but mostly it's a
mostly it's a personalassociation that you have with a
certain thing. So it's importantfor all of us to feel confident.
And while a lot of thatconfidence will come from our
preparation, will come from ourpast experiences, if we feel
(36:35):
like we can create a little bitof our own luck, and that's
something that's going to helpus, because if I feel like I'm
I've put in the effort and I'mlucky, that's going to make me
go after those moments a lotmore. So I am going to die for
that catch. I am going tosprint. I am going to give it
everything I've got. So thatlittle bit of luck is something
that just boosts our confidencelittle bit
Tara Khandelwal (36:59):
more. It reminds me of in Harry Potter,
when Harry, sort of, you know,gives Ron the felix felicis,
which is actually he doesn'tgive it, but Ron thinks he's
given it to him, and it's aelixir of luck. And Ron really
smashes it out of the game andthe Quidditch match. And then he
realizes, Oh, it was he didn'thave anything at all. It was
just his performance. And thatwas such a lovely sort of
(37:21):
indicator on, you know, how whenyou're feeling good, when you're
feeling confident, when you'refeeling lucky, you can perform.
And it's so much about thatmental state that you're in.
Speaking about, you know,support systems. And you
mentioned that a strong supportsystem is very key for athletes.
I've seen it in my own cousin,my cousin's parents, you know,
(37:42):
they've given up a lot for herto train. They've traveled with
her. You know, even her sisteris very much there for her, the
coach. There's a whole team thatis there that is surrounding
her. But what if an athletefeels like the inner circle is
not supportive or, you know,somebody who wants to play sport
but doesn't have the parentssupporting them as they should
(38:02):
be. How can they find or build ahealthier environment? How do
you navigate that?
Samir Parikh (38:08):
No, that's a tough one, right? Because a lot of
athletes, their formative yearsare as much younger people,
where you are very muchdependent in various various
aspects of your life on yourparents. So the support system
is important. And yes, as yougrow up, that support system
(38:31):
will shape around you. And yes,there will be times in your life
when some aspects or somevectors of that support system
may not be functioning the wayyou would have wanted them to.
People have had change ofcoaches. People have changed
their psychologists. People havechanged their nutritionist,
their physical trainers. Peoplehave gone through, you know,
(38:55):
separating from their practicepartners. These things do happen
because, like how in life,relationships don't always
follow a constant. It applies toathletes as well. Having said
that, a support system will makea huge difference. Now, yes, in
the evolution, you may havetransitions, including in your
(39:22):
support system, that's there,but, but I do feel family
support does matter.
Tara Khandelwal (39:28):
Yeah, it seems like that. Because from whatever
stories that we've heard and andall of the even Tiger words or
any of these athletes, it seemslike you know, the parental
figures have been very, veryimportant in their formative
years, and that's actually madea big difference. So that, I
mean, that is quite interesting.
We see stories like that acrossthe board. But for parents
(39:49):
listening to this podcast whowant to support their kids in
any competitive field andsports, what's one simple thing
they can do to help the childbuild a positive. Of healthy
mindset from a young age.
Samir Parikh (40:02):
Just a couple of things from my side, and let the
technicalities come from theexpert here. Honest. One is then
just help them enjoy. Don't makethis everything into pressure.
Everything is not an exam.
Everything is not about how manymarks you got if you are
enjoying and if you are focusingon upping your abilities, your
skill set, your performanceevery time you go out on the
(40:24):
field, the natural course ofsuccess is going to happen at
the same time. Try and ensurethat you are able to give the
best that is available in termsof skill building and support
system as well, and look at whatfits in with your child and not
what comes with the brand. Soit's not that just because a
(40:47):
particular coach, a particularmental health expert has worked
with XYZ, it's going to alsowork for this young individual.
It's a fit. So you'll need towait for that fit and facilitate
that fit to happen. That's howyou should do, which will make
sure that everything that'sneeded is there, and the
(41:08):
individual enjoys. Divyamentioned about her career, very
similar that I can say forworking now as a psychiatrist,
like I said, just under 30 yearsand that is very much like that.
If I am able to find meaning andI'm able to experience joy in
(41:29):
what I am doing, I will end upbringing my best out there
repeatedly, again and again, andthen somebody needs to help me
harness that. And that's how Ilook at
Divya Jain (41:43):
it. I actually see it as an extension of what Dr
PARIKH has said, just to put itslightly more technically. So
one, there is no replacement forfun when it comes to focus,
because fun is actually the mosteffective strategy to focus on
the present moment, right? Ifyou're having fun, you will not
be thinking about auto homeworktomorrow or what fight happened
yesterday, you're going to be inthat moment. And for me, that is
(42:04):
what mental strength is also,which is to recognize what is
important and to be able tofocus on that at that moment. So
while we encourage kids to havefun, I'd want parents to also
role model that behaviorthemselves, right? So we can't
just tell a child or resultsdon't matter. Just give it your
best, but you yourself are doingthe mathematics of, oh, which
(42:25):
round Oh, how many points? Howdid you lose this point? Which
is the easy player? Which is thedifficult player? It is going to
require some amount of selfrestraint, because it's
something we've been used to forso long, but from our own
perspective, also recognizingwhat is important in that
moment, making sure we do that,we are able to role model that
behavior, and that's going tohave far more impact than what
(42:47):
we say to the player, because atthe end of the day, we have to
realize, I think, life is a teamsport. It's not an individual
sport, and each person needs todo their part.
Tara Khandelwal (42:55):
I don't think, you know, growing up in India,
we're taught that that's a goodthing, necessarily. But I do
think that, especially for me, Ithink, yeah, my best performance
is also when that joy is there.
And I think that holds true forall all human beings, and we
should be sort of celebratingand appreciating that life is
also about having fun and havingthat joy. You know, it's not all
(43:19):
sort of hard work. And I mean,obviously it is hard work, but
it's not that doesn't have to bein tandem with sort of
suffering. Okay, so now thisbrings me to my last section of
the interview, which is therapid fire round. I'm going to
ask you a few questions that youhave to give only one word
answers
Divya Jain (43:38):
to. Okay, so
Tara Khandelwal (43:42):
who's a sports person you think has the
strongest mental game right now?
No,
Samir Parikh (43:46):
I will always go back to history. For me, it will
always be Sachin Tendulkar,hundreds and hundreds of years
down the lane. One person always
Tara Khandelwal (43:55):
love it. What about you? Divine? Because Roger
feiter. Roger. I loved that. Iloved his speech about how he
lost, I think, I don't know theexact statistic, but almost half
of his points, and how he justkept going. I think that was
just such a I think it was oneof the greatest speeches ever.
(44:16):
Okay, one word you'd use todescribe a true champion
Samir Parikh (44:20):
in values, that's how you become, where you
become. You take values out ofthe context you it's not
humankind cannot be completewithout that confidence.
Tara Khandelwal (44:30):
Confidence, yeah, your favorite sports movie
of all
Samir Parikh (44:34):
time. Sports movie, shadows of fire. Haven't
Divya Jain (44:38):
seen one in a
Samir Parikh (44:41):
while. I know Divya favorite. I'll tell you
Divya favorite,
Tara Khandelwal (44:43):
chant day chagde. Love it. Your favorite
sports book?
Samir Parikh (44:50):
One of my favorite sports book was a book on the
Indian spin quartre, which is onthe live. Of Miss vedi suprasana
Venkataraman and Mr. ChandraShekhar. Fascinating, fabulous,
great resilience and very, veryinspiring. I'm actually
Divya Jain (45:12):
reading something called 12 yards right now, which
is about penalty shootouts andthe preparation and the psyche
of someone who's actually aboutto make that that kick at that
moment. Wow. And what's yourfavorite spot to watch?
Samir Parikh (45:27):
It'll be cricket.
But Test cricket, I need to bevery, very clear. Not T 20, not
one day, none of those 10, oh,10 and hundreds and not, not a
test. Thanks for
Divya Jain (45:42):
me. It's badminton.
Although, ever since working andgetting involved in Olympic
sport, I find myself enjoyinglawn bowling, track and field,
javelin was a lot of fun towatch. Golf, all of those, all
of those events as
Tara Khandelwal (45:58):
well. Oh, that's absolutely fantastic. I
think this has been, I thinksuch a fascinating conversation
for me. I think I could justkeep going on and on. It was so
great. Talking to both of youtoday. Thank you for sharing
your insights and to everyonelistening. Thank you for tuning
into Books and Beyond. If youhave a friend who wants to learn
how to build a champion mindset,send them this episode. And if
(46:20):
you've got a story about howyou've developed your own
champion mindset, drop it in thecomments. Don't forget to follow
us on Spotify, Apple podcast, orwherever you listen to your
podcast. Hope you enjoy thisepisode of Books and
Michelle D'costa (46:34):
Beyond with bound. This podcast is created
by bound, a company that helpsyou grow through story. Find us
at Tom India on all social media
Tara Khandelwal (46:43):
platforms. Tune in every Wednesday as we peek
into the lives and minds of somebrilliant authors from India and
South Asia. You.
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