June 10, 2025 • 51 mins
What if one secret could shatter everything you thought you knew about your family?
In this episode, Bhavika Govil dives into her haunting, lyrical novel Hot Water, a coming-of-age story about the silences that pull families apart.
Bhavika talks about the novel’s striking water motif and the emotional and craft challenges of writing Ashu, a 14-year-old boy and Meera, a 9-year-old girl, and trying to make them feel both real and raw.
This episode takes a deep dive into understanding family dramas better, and how writing about what’s left unsaid is often more powerful than spelling things out. It’s a sharp, intimate, and deeply thoughtful episode on the stories we carry long after they’re over.
‘Books and Beyond with Bound’ is the podcast where Tara Khandelwal and Michelle D’costa uncover how their books reflect the realities of our lives and society today. Find out what drives India’s finest authors: from personal experiences to jugaad research methods, insecurities to publishing journeys. Created by Bound, a storytelling company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social media platforms.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tara Khandelwal (00:01):
Foreign Welcome to Books and Beyond. With bound
I'm Tara Khandelwal and I'mMichelle d'cota, in this
podcast, we talk to India'sfinest authors
Michelle D'costa (00:11):
and uncover the stories behind the best
written book and
Tara Khandelwal (00:15):
dissect how these books shape our lives and
worldviews today. So
Michelle D'costa (00:20):
let's dive in.
Tara Khandelwal (00:22):
So today's episode is going to take you
right into the heart of a familythat's a little bit messy, a
little bit broken, but full oflove. We're seeing the world
through the eyes of a nine yearold girl named Meera. Her mom,
leela, who's a single parent,and her older brother, Ashu, who
is 15 years old, quiet and a bitdistance, and all of them are
(00:44):
carrying secrets. So this iscoming together in bhavika goes
debut novel hot water. And thisnovel explores what happens to
family when those secrets startknocking louder and louder, and
figuring out how you love eachother when it all comes out in
the open. So it's a reallyintimate novel about what it
(01:06):
means to love your family evenif you don't really understand
your family. And I think that'ssomething that we can all relate
to in our own ways. And it'sreally special for Meera bhavika
On this show, because back in2019 bhavika actually won the
bound short story prize, and Iremember reading her writing at
(01:28):
that time and just being blownaway. And she's always been a
writer that I've kept a look outfor. So when this novel came
out, I just absolutely had tohave on the podcast. Welcome
bhavika. Hi,
Bhavika Govil (01:40):
Tara, thank you so much for having me. I've been
so excited to be on this aswell, and we've known each other
in that way for a few years,through our writing and
professional journey. So it'ssuper special to be here.
Tara Khandelwal (01:53):
Awesome. So what I really loved about the
book is the secrets, right? Thatis sort of like the main theme
in the book. You know, one ofthe main themes is everyone is
carrying something that they'renot saying out loud, like the
mother character, leela, she ishiding her past from her kids,
and her kids know that, you knowshe's hiding something, and they
don't know quite what it is. Andthen there's Ashu, who has his
(02:16):
own quiet Pearl and has feelingsfor his best friend, Rahul. And
then Meera, who's carrying avery heavy secret, probably the
heaviest secret. So can you tellme a little bit more about sort
of how this theme of secrecycame about? I
Bhavika Govil (02:35):
loved how you framed it, actually, earlier you
said that secrets in this novelare knocking it at everyone's
door, and they get louder andlouder. And this is a novel
about a family. It is a novel ina home, very largely confined to
the domestic space. So thesecrets are, in fact, the kind
of secrets that would be hiddenin quiet corners of a home, be
(02:56):
underneath the carpetscollecting dust, you know, be
shut behind closed doors. Theseare not the kind of big secrets
that will ever make it to theheadlines of a newspaper or, you
know, go viral or be said loudlyat a stadium. These kind of
secrets are the ones we keepfrom the ones that know us most
(03:17):
intimately, and sometimes theleast of all, because these are
the quiet things about us thatperhaps we want to shut away. In
the case of my characters, andespecially the mother with whom
the secrets really begin, shehas this feeling that she can
shut skeletons and secrets andinto the closet and they won't
(03:41):
ever come rattling out. Butsecrets have this way of
permeating the barriers that wetry and place between the past
and the present and the future,and you can't really vacuum seal
it. So I was interested inseeing what happens when that
seal opens a little bit. Whathappens when those secrets start
to emerge from the past, andwhat impact do they have on the
(04:02):
present? Purely just becausethis is my first novel, I came
to the realization that youdon't ever really know what
you're writing about. You kindof start exploring and these
things, like themes and topics,those you get a better sense
when you take five, six stepsback, or at least 10 drafts into
the process that perhaps I amlooking at Secrets. That's the
(04:25):
tying factor over here. And inthe case of Indian families, we
just are so tightly knit, but sooften separate, and we have to
keep things concealed. You know,there is this layer of we'll
abandon you, if you would exposetoo many parts of yourself, be
(04:46):
yourself, but not too much.
Okay, that's there in Indianfamily. So it was an interesting
thing to explore in this familydynamic. Yeah.
Tara Khandelwal (04:54):
It reminded me of this podcast that I listened
to by Laurie Gottlieb, andbasically she takes. Behind the
Scenes of a therapy room. So, soit's very interesting, because
they often talk about secrets.
And, you know, people come toher after they've sort of found
out about this family secret,and their family life is kind of
imploded. And then when theyspeak to her, they talk about
(05:17):
how, you know, they're alwaysknown that something was wrong
all along, like they'd alwaysknown that something was amiss.
And she says that secrets havethat power to do that you know,
where you always know thatsomething is not quite right.
And I think that's somethingthat you've really brought about
really well in the book,especially from the point of
view of the two children, wherethey're looking at the mom, and
(05:40):
they're saying that, okay, youknow, something is not quite
right. And she's not a typicalmother character either, you
know, she's sort of, you know,also a little bit struggling.
She lashes out, she doesn'talways make the right choices.
And the rumors about, you know,like the Meera, the daughters
talk to other rumors about herbeing a whore in school or some
(06:04):
kind of nut job. And then, youknow, they see her doing things
that don't very typically fitinto this notion of what we have
as mother. And also seen lots ofnovels, you know, it reminded me
of me, though she's burned sugaras well, because that was also
about a mother character whodoesn't really fit into that
(06:25):
normal thing. And in your shortstory, curl, that was also about
a mom who loses her child in aschool shooting. So where did
your interest in writing aboutmotherhood come from, and why
this unconventional momcharacter.
Bhavika Govil (06:41):
Firstly, if this is the same lorry who's written,
maybe you should talk tosomeone. Is it the same writer
of that book? Loved that book,and have to check out this
podcast regarding my fascinationwith mothers. You know, every
time I write a story, whetherit's a short story or it was
this novel. It never intended tobe about a mother. Yet I may
(07:04):
start with a differentcharacter, but the the sentences
and the story just leads me tohave a fascination about mothers
in general. Now I am not amother. I haven't yet
experienced motherhood yet sincemy early 20s, there is this
somewhat often enigma that thelife that a mother leads before
(07:28):
they become a mother is held forme. You know, you grow up and
you see your mom as just yourmom. You, in fact, don't even
know what her name is, andperhaps she'll make you memorize
it for safety reasons or forschool, but it's hard for you to
believe that she can have anidentity different than just
being your mother, the one who'sfeeding you, the one who's
clothing you, the one you'revery intimately around for the
(07:50):
most part, in your early years.
So that feeling of seeing yourmother's photographs in skinny
jeans, you know, somewhat withthat Bucha effect with your
father, maybe with the sisters,always would be like, oh, this
person had a life beyond me, andthat's makes me uncomfortable. I
don't like it, but it's true,and there's a story there. So
(08:13):
maybe somewhere that childhoodfascination has bled into my
creative work where, yes, the inthe case of colon, there was
this woman, earlier, I wanted towrite about a woman who's
experiencing grief, and as Iwrote the story, it became
obvious to me that that grief isfrom somebody that was born with
inside her body. That's why itfeels so absolutely wretched.
(08:36):
More than anything, it's it's apart of her that's died so and
then here in the case of Ma,well, you know, first you're a
reader, right? So these storiesthat you're mentioning, of
course, Avni Roshi book came outwhen I was already halfway
through this novel, but I lovedit. I loved that depiction of
the mother who isn't alwayslooking out for you. Sometimes
(09:00):
is thinking about herself. Ilove the God of small things,
mother as well. She was veryloving, but also said some
things that deeply stuck withme, like she said, I mean, I
quoted it in the beginning ofthis novel, like I referred to
it, which is she tells onecharacter, that's what careless
(09:20):
words do. They make people loveyou a little less. And I think
that's what the mother says tothe girl at the beginning of God
of small things. And you know, Iunderlined that 1000 times over
until the pencil would make herwhole in the paper, because it
just felt so true. The motherscan also show you the reality.
Tara Khandelwal (09:43):
I mean, it is very fascinating. And I agree,
because we all think of ourmothers as sort of, you know,
these mythical creatures. And Icompletely relate, you know,
when you're a child and youfirst finding out, oh, my mom
had a life beyond me, you know,and seeing all those pictures,
that's very. Beautiful. Socoming to the Leela character,
you know, what did you want toshowcase through that, which is
(10:05):
the mother character in yourbook?
Bhavika Govil (10:07):
Well, at first it was just simply, you know,
you're playing different voicesin your head when you're writing
a story, it's as though you arethe interviewer and you are the
interviewee. So I asked certainquestions when I was writing
Meera. So I actually wrote Meeraspot entirely first.
Tara Khandelwal (10:22):
So Meera is the nine year old daughter. Meera is
the nine year old girl.
Bhavika Govil (10:25):
So we begin the story with her, and she sort of
introduces us to the world ofthis family and the background
and the dynamics between all thecharacters. So her elder
brother, Ashu and her mother,leela, who we're speaking of. So
I had written this novel inchunks, actually, although it
appears in a different manner inthe final form. In the book, I
(10:46):
wrote Meera entire portionstogether, so I had left certain
gaps in the story, and so Iraised a few questions that I
then started to answer when Iput on the role the hat of the
mother. So Meera is nine, andshe's observing her mother in
(11:07):
fractured pieces and sort ofglimpses. It's kind of like
looking in a fun house mirror,and you can see twisted versions
of your mother figure, sometimesextremely loving, sometimes
really distant, and you don'tquite know what is the right
image and who that person reallyis. And you know you never
really will if you're anotherperson, and especially if you're
(11:29):
a child. So to enter the scenesbehind the mirror and then to
wear the skin of the mother waslike answering those questions
that I had asked my own self,who is this mother, what brought
her to this point, what makesher sometimes barter love
insidious ways, sort of givemore and dole out more to one
(11:54):
person, and, you know, treat onewith whiplash. Is it whim, or is
there something deeper there?
And okay, she's a mother, butwhat else was she like? What was
her family dynamics? We don'tjust like appear on this earth
from nowhere. I think ourfamilies really shape us, and I
keep repeating in India. Butreally in India, they really do.
(12:16):
Who were around, who theseformative years are spent with
what influences do they have onus? And do we sort of carry some
patterns forward, or are we ableto break them? Those were the
areas I wanted to write about,and why I wrote about, Ma.
Tara Khandelwal (12:35):
And it's very interesting because, yeah, when
you started, even in yourwriting, you're saying you
started with the nine year oldgirl character, and we are
dropped into this novel by thischaracter. And before I come to
this character, who I really,really found very fascinating, I
wanted to get to know a littlebit more about you, because I
know that you've been writingfor a long time. You've been
writing since you were a kid. Sowhat has been your journey
(13:00):
towards writing, you know, andhow and when did this novel
actually begin for
Bhavika Govil (13:07):
you? I don't know when I began writing in the real
sense. I don't know I was very,very interested in physically
holding a pen and paper. So evenwhen I was three and four, all I
would want were like two orthree things as presence in
life. One, a new night suit. Ican't quite explain why a
matching set, what we call aquad set these days, and two, a
(13:31):
brand new notebook and a pen,and if a glitter pen, then even
better. So I just wanted towrite things on paper. I would
write sort of letters to myfather when I would go on
vacation to my Mercy's place,and, you know, misspelled, I
love you, I miss you. This iswhat I ate today. I wrote a lot
(13:51):
in journals, you know, the oneswith locks and keys that you
eventually lose the key, the keyof. And I really was very happy
when we began to write with pensin class. We in my school, we
weren't allowed to until thefifth grade, so that felt like a
graduation to adulthood to haveto be able to formalize thoughts
with ink and on paper. Sothere's that relationship of
(14:15):
just words and
Tara Khandelwal (14:16):
for your parents, also readers and
writers or so now, my
Bhavika Govil (14:20):
mom has an utter fascination for words. She was
never a reader, but she reallyrespected it and admired it. So
though she didn't grow up in ahouse where reading was the
culture, she made sure that sheread a lot to my sister and me
so and she reads now. She readsa lot of books now, but she
really would buy us books. Mydad never said no to a book. So
(14:42):
we had this ritual there once amonth, he would take us to the
bookshop, my sister and me and Iguess I would not pick up too
many, because I always had thissense of this is one is enough,
or two are enough. But even if Ihad asked for more, he would
never have said. Know, said nobecause he told me that his his
(15:03):
father, who I never met, wouldnever say no for books. And he
does come from this line ofeducation. And, you know,
puzzles, toys, they make,academic books for schools. So
there has been this, is thisreverence and respect for the
written word. So this
Tara Khandelwal (15:22):
is something that you were always, just sort
of always attracted to, and I'vebeen working on it for a while,
and it really shows the craftreally shows, you know, so now
let's talk about Meera, the nineyear old daughter, and that's
how we're introduced to thisworld. And she sees and hears
everything and but she doesn'tfully understand what's going
(15:44):
on. It's so relatable to, youknow, all of our childhood
experiences, and it's just sokeenly observed. You know, even
the thing between her brotherashu and Rahul, she senses that
they're not just friends, youknow, she senses that, okay,
something is up with her mom andthe coach character, who also
want to speak about so you knowhow I'm always very fascinated
(16:08):
by literary fiction written froma child's point of view. Another
book that comes to my mind isroom, and room was also written
through a child's point of view,and I just found it so
fascinating. So how do you evensort of get into that
perspective and make it so realrelatable, but at the same time
so evocative and well written?
Thank
Bhavika Govil (16:29):
you. And room is absolutely the first book that
comes to my mind as well. Infact, I don't know if I could
have ever written this had I notread and loved and been
fascinated by room when I readit maybe 15 years ago, or, I
don't know when it came out, butdefinitely more than a decade.
Just
Tara Khandelwal (16:48):
to add context for our listeners who don't know
what room is about, room isabout basically a small child
and his mom who've beenabducted. It's quite a dark
book, who were abducted and haveto live in a small, little room.
And the child is is growing up,and all he knows is that room.
Bhavika Govil (17:06):
Yes. So that boy, Jack is five, and when I read
that book, I was I was stunnedthat you could do that in
fiction and in literature, thatyou could use words that way and
limit them that way, and yetmake your meaning so clear. You
know, sometimes, and this issomething I've noticed in
writing classes, and you know,when teaching writing, and
(17:27):
generally, when speaking withnewer writers, and even myself
earlier, we think we have to bereally complex with our
vocabulary, with our sentenceconstruction, with our phrasal
verbs, with just the way we wantto put our ideas down, that the
more complex a sentence, thebetter the writing is. But I
(17:47):
don't think that's true at all.
In fact, the most clear ideaswill ring true, donated depicted
in a in a simpler manner. That'sless pretentious, I guess I want
to say, but anyway, that justties into this aspect of writing
from a child's perspective. Anysort of wishes I may have had to
(18:07):
show off with my writing, or sayit's my debut novel, let me, you
know, let me show the world whatI can do with which I don't even
know, by the way, but theyweren't there, because when you
have to write from a child'sperspective, you are shedding
every bit of arrogance that youcan build or vocabulary that you
have built up to a certain age,because now you have to limit it
(18:30):
to the age of nine. And how doyou do that? Not entirely sure.
But Meera was Meera, who is mynarrator, was very curious a
child, and luckily, a narratorwho also loved words and was
fascinated by words, so toexplore the story, and you know,
see her world from herperspective, was a lot of fun.
Once I had figured out exactlyhow she speaks and what her
(18:54):
rhythms are, I referred a littlebit to my journals, and I was
looking at Meera, but theydidn't help too much, because I
think Meera is much smarter thanI was. My journals were quite
insipid. That way aboutachieving the effect. You know,
I did do some research, and Iwas reading room again, I was
(19:16):
reading these books, and Irealized that the aim is not
absolute realism. I don't thinkthat when you're writing fiction
at any point are you trying tofool a reader. And a reader
can't be fooled that this ishappening, that you aren't
currently absorbed within thepages of a novel. They are very
aware that this is made up.
(19:38):
Maybe momentarily you can losethem to a feeling, to a thought,
to a place. But I don't have tostrictly sound like a nine year
old, as long as I capture theessence of being a child, and I
can have a little bit of leewaywith the language, the style of
narration, the form, in fact,fidelity, is not. My only
(20:00):
concern, and it wasn't withMeera.
Tara Khandelwal (20:03):
And also, what I found fascinating is it's
Meera is first person, whichmakes it even harder I can
imagine. While you know, theAshu character is third person.
So why did you choose firstperson for
Bhavika Govil (20:17):
her? Then I began writing this novel, and you
know, I never got to that partof how this novel came into
being, but it came into beingsolely because of Meera. I had a
narrator whose age I hadn't yetfigured out, who sort of senses
these undercurrents in herfamily's dynamics, and she when
I first started writing it,Meera was actually an older
(20:39):
protagonist. It was somebody whois speaking in the eye, somebody
is looking back at entering aliving room and sensing that
something is just off, like yousaid, secrets also have a heavy
presence, right so that unsaid,that weight of unsaid things,
the secrecy, the undercurrentsthis person was reflecting on
(21:00):
them, between her mother and herbrother and generally the world.
There were more characters then,and of course, it got sharpened
and as I wrote the novel, butthat person, as I realized, was
Meera, and I wanted to bringimmediacy to the story. It was a
story that had to unfoldeventually over that one summer,
and I didn't want the knowledgeof adulthood in this I didn't
(21:24):
want to have figured it out orhave seen it and then look at
the, you know, it would taintthe way Meera would then
narrate. It's very real time.
Yeah, exactly. I wanted themoment of narration and and the
events occurrence being veryclose to each other in Meera
case, particularly, because thenyou really get into a child's
(21:45):
head, and you see what they see,and you see what they don't see.
As well as an adult reader, I
Tara Khandelwal (21:53):
like that a lot, because you see it's like
sort of, you know, as a reader,you know certain things, but the
protagonist doesn't, and I findthat juxtaposition always very
fascinating. So at the beginningof the book, you dedicated your
parents, and you've written thewords did flow. So I just want
to know what is the story behindthat line.
Bhavika Govil (22:13):
So when I was in school, I would you know how in
CBSE schools, you really haveto, you have to learn a lot of
sort of subheadings andparagraphs and go and sort of
spit those out on the page. Butand my mother was always around,
and you know, she would see mestruggle to memorize everything.
(22:36):
And what she would tell me isthat, you know, everything,
bhavika, don't worry, the wordswill flow. When you go tomorrow
and you put the pen on paper,the words will flow. And
whenever I would come back, I'dsay, yeah, it happened. It All.
It was all fine. So now monthshave years have passed, and we
obviously have not had contextfor that inside seeing, in fact,
(22:58):
nobody besides her and I knowit. She and I know of it. And
then when I started writing thisnovel, I had this little dream
that it will get published atsome point. I hope it does. And
I wrote a dream, a dedicationpage on my laptop, which had
these words. And I kept hopingthat my mom will remember what
(23:19):
the what I'm referring to atall. And of course, I included
my father because I wanted toinclude them both in in this
debut novel dedication. Butreally it was that that when I
started writing this book aswell, there were so many times
when I halted and I wasn't sureif I could move on, and we
didn't discuss it in theseprecise words, but I wanted to
(23:41):
bring back what she would say tome when I was younger. And this
is a book about water, so thewords did flow. And thankfully,
she remembered the reference,and she was kind of happy about
it, very I love
Tara Khandelwal (23:53):
that. Yeah, and coming to water, which was a
very interesting theme, youknow, even the chapters are
split into sections name, plantsurface float. And it feels like
we're swimming through thesecharacters lives, trying to stay
afloat with them. And thesetting is, you know, this club
with a pool. And I think it'svery sort of, we've all sort of
(24:14):
had those summers where, youknow, we would sort of go
swimming with, like, otherchildren and your friends and
your cousins, and there's awhole community aspect to that.
So, yeah, so why the watertheme? Why this setting? Why
does, why do all these secretsspill out over this one summer?
Why is that the inciting part ofthe book?
Bhavika Govil (24:35):
There is a there is a fascination I have for the
swimming pool. And it like, likethe mothers that I was talking
about, they come out in mystories quite often. So does the
pool, which I've noticed evenafter I finished writing hot
water. Some of the short fictionI've written has characters
learning something aboutthemselves when they're
(24:55):
underwater, and maybe there isthe feeling that I get as. A
very amateur swimmer, butsomebody in the water who at
once feels very at peace yetalso disturbed. You're suddenly
everything is so silent whenyou're underwater and you're
between two places at once whenyou're floating, you know you're
(25:16):
part of one world, which is theworld outside the world that's
your real life, and then you'rein there with nobody else, and
just your thoughts and yourinner you know, your your depths
really come to the surface in aswimming pool. That's something
only articulating right now asI'm speaking to you. That
obviously wasn't a consciousdecision in context of this
(25:38):
particular story. I do have,like you mentioned, spent a lot
of time at the club and learningswimming and made some fantastic
friendships. It is a place offreedom. The summer is a play.
Is a time of freedom in my life.
You know, we're in school and wehave all these time bound exams
and activities, and everythingis chopped out for you. And how
(25:58):
much agency do you really havein your life? And then summer,
you get a couple of months, andeverything seems wide open, like
the blue sky, and you have allthese days to spend time in, and
then you have the water. Andit's just a very liberating time
in my memory, and a place whereI thought these characters can
spend time outside the schooland learn more about the family,
(26:21):
learn more about each otherwithout the barriers of you
know, the school bells and sortof lunchtime coming in the way.
And regarding the sectiontitles, I kind of look at this
book in retrospect, havingwritten it as a manual to learn
(26:42):
how to breathe even amidst themost suffocating circumstances
that you may be put through inlife. And these characters, all
of them, in some way, I wouldn'tcall this a coming of age book.
But in some way, each of thesecharacters are coming of age in
(27:02):
this novel, or at or they were,at least in drafts of it that I
had written. Coming of Age hasdifferent meanings with all of
them are coming in to contactwith who they really are as
people and in relation to eachother. And sometimes that comes
with a lot of baggage, and beingin water is is quite a good
(27:26):
metaphor for that to be plungedinto life and then bowing up,
and then sometimes again, goingback down and struggling and
finding your way out of thatdepth and out and finding the
lifeboat, or sort of, yeah,
Tara Khandelwal (27:44):
yeah. I really like how, like, you've talked
about the pool and the wholesort of like atmosphere around
it, and, you know, we alwayssort of associated with this
sort of, like, friendly kind ofsituation. But, you know, it can
be also a little bit sinister,like it reminded me of family
life Akhil Sharma, where thenovel starts with very sad
(28:07):
incident that happens in a pool.
And also at this in the pool. Inyour book, we see the coach
character. And I was veryfascinated with this character.
He and MA seem to have somethinggoing on between them, and he
turns out to be quite a shadycharacter. Meera obviously
doesn't like him, becausethere's an incident between both
(28:30):
of them that is not savory atall, without giving anything
away. So can you tell me alittle bit more about this
character and what you wanted toshowcase through him.
Bhavika Govil (28:43):
So Coach is this, you know, your typical male
character at the club, the guywho has a whistle around his
neck and trains the children, ishalf heartedly interested in his
job. Don't really know what hisinner world contains, I think I
wanted to be a little distantfrom him. I always saw him from
(29:06):
other people's perspectives, butMa is drawn to him for reasons
that I can't quite explain. ButMa has a difficult time seeing
what people are right for her,this is a pattern that she's
unable to break, and it would besimplistic of me to say now
she's learned her lesson. Ithink sometimes lessons just
(29:27):
keep repeating themselves inways that we would rather them
not so Ma has this fascinationof not fascination, but like
she's interested in the way thatcoach makes her feel seen, and
Meera sees that, and she feelsat once uncomfortable, one
because as children, we don'twant anybody to come between us
and our immediate circle, ourparents. So when she sees ma
(29:52):
hold his hand, her heart sort ofthinks that, oh, she has less
time to hold my hand. Now, youknow, there's a very direct
math. Going on if she likes thisperson, how can she like me? If
she loves me, how can she lovethat person? Is it possible to
do things, things at once? Sothrough coach, I was exploring
what happens when an externalperson enters their life, and
(30:15):
also how motherhood is sodifficult. You know, you can't
always blame the mother foreverything, but you do have to
be really vigilant with who youmake enter your your family
life, and your your home andyour domestic spaces. We don't
get to see too much of coachbecause there are these labels.
So Ma is mA and coach is coach.
And these kids have thisconversation by the pool where
(30:36):
they say, Isn't it funny howsome people are always known by
what they do, and that's truefor a lot of characters in the
book, especially when you lookfrom a child's perspective, you
only see them from that onelabel, that one lens. So Coach,
to an extent, even to me as awriter, is just coach. I don't
know his name, I just know thathe is somebody that I would keep
at an arm's length, and thatit's important to sort of really
(30:58):
check the people that we bringinto our home, especially when
children are involved,
Tara Khandelwal (31:06):
yeah, definitely, that's so important.
What I was also fascinated withis what you said about patterns,
right? And ma choosing, youknow, these patterns in life
again and again, and we find outthrough a story that, you know,
she does have a pattern ofchoosing certain men, and that
has those repercussions in herchildren's lives, and that's how
all those secrets come out andeverything like that. And then,
(31:28):
you know, the whole situationkind of implodes a bit because
of that. So for that reason, Ifound this character very, very
interesting, and also because heis someone at an arm's length.
And also I was wondering, oh,you know, how could she it's a
very human thing. It's like, howcan the mom not see this? But
she has her own lens throughwhich she is viewing the world.
(31:48):
So I really like that as well.
Another thing that there's somany themes in this book that
you brought so well together.
And one of the things that Ireally liked was the sibling
bond, you know, between Meeraand her big brother. And Meera
really looks up to a bigbrother, and she follows him
around. And, you know, she evensays things like, Oh, I know him
best. And then on the flip side,we have Mark leela, who, you
(32:12):
know, kind of has very fraughtrelationship with her own family
and own sister. One of thereasons that, you know, they
can't the sibling, the Meera andAshu can't quite grasp who Ma
is, or there's so many secrets.
Is because ma herself is verysecretive about her family. And
you know, when people ask her,she says, I don't have a family.
And then Meera and ash werelike, oh, but we are right here.
(32:34):
And she means her other familythat you know something had
happened, and she left them andshe distanced herself. So yeah,
how did you get into the mindsetof these very two different
sibling dynamics? Sibling
Bhavika Govil (32:48):
relationships have always been a part of my
life. I'm a younger sister. Ihave an elder sister, and apart
from that, I come from a reallylarge family with so many
cousins that we never reallyeven call each other cousins. We
always say brothers and sisters.
So that, that has been anintrinsic part of who I am, I
think, especially when you'rethe younger sibling, you kind of
(33:09):
you're never just you. Youalways see yourself in relation
to another person who is livinga very similar life to than you
to you, yet you can sense thatthere's a gulf between you and
them, that you are differentpeople. And in the case of like
you, so nicely pointed out,there is mA and her sibling
(33:32):
dynamic. That is one parallel inthe story. And then we have in
present time, Meera, who isnine, and Ashu, who is five
years older than her, and shecalls him Ashu. There's no Bhaya
and all of that over here. So,you know, we see MA and her
sister at the at a point wherethey're little older and and
then Meera and Ashu right now,are at the beginning of their
(33:54):
life. So to say they're at thebeginning of living, what
happens to siblings over time?
You know, I'm interested inwhether, you know, we're so
tightly brought together with sotightly stories are so tightly
woven together initially inthose early years. And then, you
(34:14):
know, siblings move out, or theygo to college, or you somebody
gets married, or somebody, youknow, some something happens
which is not even external, whathappens to a relationship? Then
are we able to, sort of like, goforward in life, keeping that
bond really close to you, or arewe going to move apart and maybe
come back together at somepoint, I see this in a way in
(34:37):
the novel that you know,siblings are like siblings are
born in the same river, but atsome point the chart and the
course of that river maydissect, and that's what I
wanted to bring out bit in theparallels between them and about
just like Meera and Ashu, theyhave such a beautiful and sweet
sibling relationship. Ashu is,you know. Everything to Meera.
(35:01):
And Meera sees him foreverything that he is. Like you
mentioned earlier, he can seewho he likes. It's so obvious to
her. It's so funny that otherscan't see it. But you know to
know something, you have to seesomebody, and you to see them in
love. And she's she does that.
So therefore perhaps she doesknow Ashu best, and she's right
about that. And as for Ashu, heis older, so of course, he does
love Meera a lot like and he'svery protective of her, and he
(35:24):
is fond of her, but she is hiskid. Sisters. Is a five year age
gap there, and Ashu has morecomplicated problems and sort of
his own inner world that'svibrant, that doesn't get to be
showcased in this home, but hegets to show it outside, and he
gets to show it with his friendwho he is, if he's if he's
(35:46):
funny, if He's witty, what arethe sides of him that Meera
can't understand his sarcasm andthings like that, right? So
Ashu, somewhat, is still alittle lonely. He's older, so
he's in a gulf. He's vacuumsealed in an experience that
only he knows the inside of, andMeera can't understand, at least
not until they're much older,because there will be that no
matter how old Meera gets,she'll always be five years
(36:09):
younger to him, I
Tara Khandelwal (36:11):
think you've captured the sibling dynamic so
well. And I think I'm an I'm anelder sibling, so it is a little
lonely. You know, it's lonely atthe top, because you are going
through everything and first andhaving these adult experiences,
even I have a five year age gap,but, yeah, that's quite a big
(36:34):
age gap at that point, right?
And that's a completelydifferent life stage, and you
can't relate at some points. Andthen now, as an as adults, also,
you know, I'm finding thesibling dynamics changing,
because we're all moving out ofthe house, we're getting our own
lives. Then what happens? Andeven I wonder, okay, what
happens? Sort of like,extrapolate that to like, sort
(36:55):
of like, 1020, 3040, years. So Ireally like what you said about
that? And I found the Ashucharacter quite fascinating,
because, you know, he feels likehis mom likes Meera a little bit
more than she likes him. And fora child, you know, like,
obviously, when you ask yourparents, your parents, we have
no favorites, and you're made tofeel like, you know, you're both
equal or three equal. But hedoes feel like there's something
(37:20):
kind of a miss, and he compares,you know, how his mom is with
Meera, and how his mom is withhim. And we kind of find out why
that is, in the end. So I foundthat very interesting and very
raw, because it's not somethingthat's spoken about, you know,
having favorites. It's alwayslike, Oh no, no, no. Or the
different treatment of differentchildren, that is not something
(37:41):
that is talked about at all in afamily setting. I don't
Bhavika Govil (37:49):
know why it's not spoken about, but I do know I
could ever speak about it, andit's not something that I have
felt in my family dynamic. I'vemy parents have been very equal
in Meera words, and they'reloving, but I have been a kid in
a school room who has felt notseen, or can very obviously tell
(38:09):
that the teacher has a dislikeof me sometimes, or really
prefers the other children, andthat feeling you can't put into
words because you What Do yousay? Oh, I feel bad because I
wasn't asked to bring the Dusterto my teacher and somebody else
was, you know, that's how itwhat it boils down to, right?
(38:29):
Somebody doesn't notice you in amoment, or makes you feel a
little smaller. And that's oneexample. But I guess even adults
feel that in so many times,right, in a meeting, in a party,
on it, on a date, that in afriendship, in a friendship of
three people, that the thirdfriend, these kind of dynamics
(38:50):
of just not feeling very seen,though, that it's not something
that you can ever really bringup this. It's so intangible,
this kind of an emotion and ashwas right to pick up on these
threads. It's really just anemotion. The only difference is
that he, as a character, doesn'tdwell on it too much, because he
does have a lot more going on.
He's 14, and he has thisfriendship that he's embroiled
(39:12):
in, and there's something sortof happening, as he says at the
back of his knees that summer.
And he's got other things hefocuses on, or chooses to focus
on, but you do pick up on it,they're sort of like, it's like
frequencies in the radio. Youjust just need to tune in and
you'll know it's there. It'sright there.
Tara Khandelwal (39:33):
Yeah, I really like that exploration as well.
So there's so many differentscenes in the book, you know. So
for you, what was your sort ofhardest scene to write and
which? Which one is yourfavorite? So
Bhavika Govil (39:46):
I think for me, all of Ashu was difficult to
write and it was difficult tocrack I wrote him last, and I
just couldn't nail his voice.
Tara, it was like I first wroteit in the first person.
Actually, I tried to, I did, didnot work. He was not a character
who wanted to be that vocal andthat self aware. And, you know,
like Meera, as a narrator, wantsto speak instead of blabber a
(40:10):
little bit. Ah, she was aquieter person. And I it was
just not in his nature to totell his story in the first
person, especially when you haveso much going on around you. So
I've looked at him through alens of a narrator then how was
close to his head space, closeenough to his interiorities, to
interiorities to dip into itthen, but distant enough to
(40:33):
sometimes even make sense ofobservations that Ashu would not
be able to make so I had thatnarratorial help. It was
difficult to get into hisperspective, though, because he
is, he was sort of the lastcharacter I got to know
intimately. I saw him fromdifferent viewpoints. I saw him
from Ma, I saw him from hislittle sister. And then who was
(40:56):
he and how does he feel aboutthis? You know, I was right as I
was writing the book, and I wastelling you the core of the book
reveals itself to you as you'rewriting it. Perhaps this is a
novel about the things that arenot said. Perhaps it's a novel
about secrets, and perhaps, veryimportantly, a dark core of this
novel is the relationshipbetween MA and Ashu, and I have
(41:17):
been tiptoeing around it inthese different perspectives,
but I need to look at it head onnow, and I need to see how this
child feels about it at 14 plus,you know, he's a 14 year old
boy, and that's a very differentperspective for me as a writer
to occupy, because genuinely, Ihave not written Many male
characters before this, andparticularly adolescent male
(41:40):
characters, always looked atthem from afar, never had a
chance to think what they may bethinking or have empathy for
them. And then Ashur made iteasy eventually, because he's a
very likable 14 year old boy.
He's not boisterous, he's gentleand he's kind. Yet that barrier
(42:02):
was definitely there. And as formy favorite scenes to write, I
know I wasn't particular inwhich scene was difficult, but
yeah, my favorite scenes arereally I guess. I loved
exploring ashu and Rahul andtheir relationship. I really
liked seeing their friendshipand getting into that slightly
(42:24):
blissful part of the summerwhere otherwise certain dark
things are taking place. It feltpeaceful to be in the in the
room and both of them weretogether. And I also enjoyed the
scene where I the earlier sceneswhere Meera is sitting in the
car with ashu and MA. So Iintroduced the world through the
(42:47):
children sitting in Mars Sunyellow car, and they're going
around town, and they're seeingwhat the neighborhood looks
like, and the gulmoha tree, and,you know the way that
electricity wires arecrisscrossing in the sky, things
like that. I enjoyed. It feltlike a fun little happy ride,
though it wasn't obviously, butto be in the car with the three
of them and see their world andintroduce it to other readers
(43:12):
was quite enjoyable.
Tara Khandelwal (43:13):
Yeah, I think teenage, 48 year old teenage
boys could, might as well beanother species to me. So I
don't know you wrote that, butit was really well done. So
which one, which one was yourfavorite character? Do you have
a favorite character?
Bhavika Govil (43:28):
If I said that, I'd be that teacher who's giving
a duster to another one kid,right?
Tara Khandelwal (43:33):
Fair enough.
Fair enough. Maybe you secretlyhave one. And you know, I also
wanted to know about the journeytowards publishing because, you
know, it's a debut, and I thinka lot of people want to know how
that process was, and you alsohave an international agent
who's now pitching itinternationally, and this cover
is just fabulous. I really,really love the cover. So, yeah,
(43:57):
could you tell me a little bitmore about publishing journey,
yeah,
Bhavika Govil (44:04):
so I been writing short stories for a few years,
which is, we were talking aboutgirdle and the bound short story
prize. You know, that wasactually my first ever writing
win, and it was the one of myfirst few submissions. And it
felt like the biggest win in theworld to have somebody read your
work and think it's good enough.
So that was six years ago. NowI'm afraid to say, time has
(44:27):
passed, and shortly after thatshort story and I wrote a few
more on the summer of 2020, Ibegan writing the beginnings of
this novel. At that time, thenovel was called the silent
treatment, and I, I just sort ofbegin, begun exploring my way
through it, not really knowingexactly what the books about
(44:49):
what perspectives would be init, what the technical decisions
would be. Simply put, I was justfascinated by this. I. This
family and the ways in whichthey were unraveling. And, you
know, you pull one thread, andeverything would collapse. And I
could sense that, and it's sofragile, the bonds in which they
were keeping. Started writingthat, and it was the pandemic. I
(45:10):
was submitting it as adissertation project for my
Masters, and I had 20,000 wordsto write, and those happened
pretty easily. Have a surprise,because it was my first novel,
and I don't don't know how towrite a novel, so I wrote Meera
spot, and then months passed,and I have no idea what to do
next, because I'm stucknarratively and plot wise. I
(45:32):
didn't know what comes next, soI saw a call for a writing
prize, which was by an agent,Pontus agency in Spain. That
agency, at that time, used torepresent Avni Doshi and Janice
parriot and Shivangi Swaroop,all of which are such phenomenal
Indian writers that I justapplied it was a prize for a
(45:54):
novel in progress, so you don'thave to have it figured out.
Essentially, you submit asynopsis in around three
chapters or certain number ofwords to the prize, and that's
it. You send it in and you wait.
So I sent it in pretty much notthinking too much. In fact, I
kind of forgot about it becausethere was another wave of the
(46:15):
pandemic and there were moreimportant things taking place.
And yeah, essentially, I gotshortlisted for that prize, and
then I co won the prize withanother writer that was 2021 and
suddenly things just sort ofbecame a little better. I had an
agent now that was representingme and somebody external, and
(46:38):
that to international, sayingthat, yeah, we too, see, think
that the story has scoped to bepublished, and that you must
keep on writing it. So I did. Ispent the next year and a half
going over, finishing one draftand another, learning every time
that it's not working. I'veheard so many times that we love
(46:58):
it, we love the voices, but, youknow, it's not a novel yet. It's
like vignettes. Or maybe itshould be one character only.
Maybe it should be only thesetwo characters. Perhaps you'd
want to change this about it,everything well meaning, but
nothing was coming close to whatI saw the book as. It wasn't
matching my vision for the book,which I, too, was discovering.
(47:19):
So it was a lot of back andforth and a lot of trying to
crack the structure. I guessthat's what I'm speaking about,
the ways in which things shouldunfold, the timing of things
this, the ways in which chaptersand sections are divided, that
kind of a thing. And then acouple of years later, around
2023 we got when we felt it wasgood enough to at least go out
(47:43):
to publishers. We submitted it,and that's when I got the
publishing deal with HarperCollins, India, with at that
time. I mean, even now, my dreameditor, Rahul Soni, and I, since
then, I've also worked withdharni Bhaskar, and it's thanks
to the editors and thanks totime that I gave the book that
it's come into the shape atwhich I am genuinely happy,
(48:07):
people are saying it's a novel.
In fact, it says a novel on thecover. So I'm very happy about
that, so to say. And now it'sout here, and I can keeping my
fingers crossed, and pleasecross yours that it gets deals
abroad. I do have a translationdeal for France, so that's
exciting, and the cover isbeautiful. It's thanks to the
lovely Bonita wa shimre, who isa designer at Harper Collins,
(48:31):
and she really read the book,interpreted it, and wanted to
bring out the depths of it aswell as, like, the lightness of
it. A lot of hard
Tara Khandelwal (48:42):
work has gone into the book. And, yeah, those,
those are fantastic editors, andit's definitely the hottest book
of the summer, because I'mseeing it everywhere, nod
magazine, platform and even themarketing of the book. I mean,
it's sort of one of those booksthat you want in your beach bag
(49:03):
as well. That's not a beachread. A beach read, yeah, but
no, I'm really glad to see sortof, you know, so much publicity
and well warranted. So what'snext for you? What are you doing
next? What are you writing onnext? I have
Bhavika Govil (49:21):
been writing snippets of things, things that
don't really form a part of anything large or anything more
whole. Honestly, this past monthhas been really sort of being
lost in marketing and publicityand conversations about Meera,
Ashu and Ma, so it's nice tolive with them a little bit
longer and hear what otherpeople think about those
(49:43):
characters, but like, I'mjournaling a lot these days. I'm
trying to see what's occupyingmy mind. There is just so much
going on with the world itselfthat it's an explosion of
thoughts and feelings. And Iwill be writing a book. Next for
sure, I I have a novel. I have acontract for a novel, so I have
(50:04):
to write one, really. This isthe French deal. Ah. So anyway,
irrespective of that, I would bewriting a book, and it would be
a novel. I just don't know what,quite yet, though, like a voice
is coming to my mind, and it'snot a child, and I'm interested
(50:26):
in seeing who it what they haveto say and who they are, and I
think I also repeat our shortstory. So I would love, at some
point to put together acollection, sooner than later.
But yes, these are the projectsthat I can see, but I need to
work on them. It's
Tara Khandelwal (50:44):
very exciting.
And I love reading shortstories. I love a good book of
short stories. Jhumpa Larry,short stories are some of my
absolute favorites, and evenAkhil Sharma.
Bhavika Govil (50:54):
I must read Akhil Sharma. You You mentioned, yeah,
Tara Khandelwal (50:58):
he's one of my favorite authors, definitely.
And I think you, particularlyafter reading your writing, will
really enjoy but thank you somuch. This was so much fun. I
think I learned a lot more aboutthe characters, and I always
love finding out about thestories behind the stories, and
(51:18):
speaking to fiction writer. Sothank you so much for this.
Bhavika Govil (51:21):
Thank you so much. Tara.
Tara Khandelwal (51:24):
Hope you enjoyed this episode of Books
and Beyond with bound.
Michelle D'costa (51:28):
This podcast is created by bound, a company
that helps you grow throughstories. Find us at bound India
on all social media platforms.
Tara Khandelwal (51:36):
Tune in every Wednesday as we peek into the
lives and minds of somebrilliant authors from India and
South Asia. You.
Foreign Welcome to Books and Beyond. With bound
I'm Tara Khandelwal and I'mMichelle d'cota, in this
podcast, we talk to India'sfinest authors
Michelle D'costa (00:11):
and uncover the stories behind the best
written book and
Tara Khandelwal (00:15):
dissect how these books shape our lives and
worldviews today. So
Michelle D'costa (00:20):
let's dive in.
Tara Khandelwal (00:22):
So today's episode is going to take you
right into the heart of a familythat's a little bit messy, a
little bit broken, but full oflove. We're seeing the world
through the eyes of a nine yearold girl named Meera. Her mom,
leela, who's a single parent,and her older brother, Ashu, who
is 15 years old, quiet and a bitdistance, and all of them are
(00:44):
carrying secrets. So this iscoming together in bhavika goes
debut novel hot water. And thisnovel explores what happens to
family when those secrets startknocking louder and louder, and
figuring out how you love eachother when it all comes out in
the open. So it's a reallyintimate novel about what it
(01:06):
means to love your family evenif you don't really understand
your family. And I think that'ssomething that we can all relate
to in our own ways. And it'sreally special for Meera bhavika
On this show, because back in2019 bhavika actually won the
bound short story prize, and Iremember reading her writing at
(01:28):
that time and just being blownaway. And she's always been a
writer that I've kept a look outfor. So when this novel came
out, I just absolutely had tohave on the podcast. Welcome
bhavika. Hi,
Bhavika Govil (01:40):
Tara, thank you so much for having me. I've been
so excited to be on this aswell, and we've known each other
in that way for a few years,through our writing and
professional journey. So it'ssuper special to be here.
Tara Khandelwal (01:53):
Awesome. So what I really loved about the
book is the secrets, right? Thatis sort of like the main theme
in the book. You know, one ofthe main themes is everyone is
carrying something that they'renot saying out loud, like the
mother character, leela, she ishiding her past from her kids,
and her kids know that, you knowshe's hiding something, and they
don't know quite what it is. Andthen there's Ashu, who has his
(02:16):
own quiet Pearl and has feelingsfor his best friend, Rahul. And
then Meera, who's carrying avery heavy secret, probably the
heaviest secret. So can you tellme a little bit more about sort
of how this theme of secrecycame about? I
Bhavika Govil (02:35):
loved how you framed it, actually, earlier you
said that secrets in this novelare knocking it at everyone's
door, and they get louder andlouder. And this is a novel
about a family. It is a novel ina home, very largely confined to
the domestic space. So thesecrets are, in fact, the kind
of secrets that would be hiddenin quiet corners of a home, be
(02:56):
underneath the carpetscollecting dust, you know, be
shut behind closed doors. Theseare not the kind of big secrets
that will ever make it to theheadlines of a newspaper or, you
know, go viral or be said loudlyat a stadium. These kind of
secrets are the ones we keepfrom the ones that know us most
(03:17):
intimately, and sometimes theleast of all, because these are
the quiet things about us thatperhaps we want to shut away. In
the case of my characters, andespecially the mother with whom
the secrets really begin, shehas this feeling that she can
shut skeletons and secrets andinto the closet and they won't
(03:41):
ever come rattling out. Butsecrets have this way of
permeating the barriers that wetry and place between the past
and the present and the future,and you can't really vacuum seal
it. So I was interested inseeing what happens when that
seal opens a little bit. Whathappens when those secrets start
to emerge from the past, andwhat impact do they have on the
(04:02):
present? Purely just becausethis is my first novel, I came
to the realization that youdon't ever really know what
you're writing about. You kindof start exploring and these
things, like themes and topics,those you get a better sense
when you take five, six stepsback, or at least 10 drafts into
the process that perhaps I amlooking at Secrets. That's the
(04:25):
tying factor over here. And inthe case of Indian families, we
just are so tightly knit, but sooften separate, and we have to
keep things concealed. You know,there is this layer of we'll
abandon you, if you would exposetoo many parts of yourself, be
(04:46):
yourself, but not too much.
Okay, that's there in Indianfamily. So it was an interesting
thing to explore in this familydynamic. Yeah.
Tara Khandelwal (04:54):
It reminded me of this podcast that I listened
to by Laurie Gottlieb, andbasically she takes. Behind the
Scenes of a therapy room. So, soit's very interesting, because
they often talk about secrets.
And, you know, people come toher after they've sort of found
out about this family secret,and their family life is kind of
imploded. And then when theyspeak to her, they talk about
(05:17):
how, you know, they're alwaysknown that something was wrong
all along, like they'd alwaysknown that something was amiss.
And she says that secrets havethat power to do that you know,
where you always know thatsomething is not quite right.
And I think that's somethingthat you've really brought about
really well in the book,especially from the point of
view of the two children, wherethey're looking at the mom, and
(05:40):
they're saying that, okay, youknow, something is not quite
right. And she's not a typicalmother character either, you
know, she's sort of, you know,also a little bit struggling.
She lashes out, she doesn'talways make the right choices.
And the rumors about, you know,like the Meera, the daughters
talk to other rumors about herbeing a whore in school or some
(06:04):
kind of nut job. And then, youknow, they see her doing things
that don't very typically fitinto this notion of what we have
as mother. And also seen lots ofnovels, you know, it reminded me
of me, though she's burned sugaras well, because that was also
about a mother character whodoesn't really fit into that
(06:25):
normal thing. And in your shortstory, curl, that was also about
a mom who loses her child in aschool shooting. So where did
your interest in writing aboutmotherhood come from, and why
this unconventional momcharacter.
Bhavika Govil (06:41):
Firstly, if this is the same lorry who's written,
maybe you should talk tosomeone. Is it the same writer
of that book? Loved that book,and have to check out this
podcast regarding my fascinationwith mothers. You know, every
time I write a story, whetherit's a short story or it was
this novel. It never intended tobe about a mother. Yet I may
(07:04):
start with a differentcharacter, but the the sentences
and the story just leads me tohave a fascination about mothers
in general. Now I am not amother. I haven't yet
experienced motherhood yet sincemy early 20s, there is this
somewhat often enigma that thelife that a mother leads before
(07:28):
they become a mother is held forme. You know, you grow up and
you see your mom as just yourmom. You, in fact, don't even
know what her name is, andperhaps she'll make you memorize
it for safety reasons or forschool, but it's hard for you to
believe that she can have anidentity different than just
being your mother, the one who'sfeeding you, the one who's
clothing you, the one you'revery intimately around for the
(07:50):
most part, in your early years.
So that feeling of seeing yourmother's photographs in skinny
jeans, you know, somewhat withthat Bucha effect with your
father, maybe with the sisters,always would be like, oh, this
person had a life beyond me, andthat's makes me uncomfortable. I
don't like it, but it's true,and there's a story there. So
(08:13):
maybe somewhere that childhoodfascination has bled into my
creative work where, yes, the inthe case of colon, there was
this woman, earlier, I wanted towrite about a woman who's
experiencing grief, and as Iwrote the story, it became
obvious to me that that grief isfrom somebody that was born with
inside her body. That's why itfeels so absolutely wretched.
(08:36):
More than anything, it's it's apart of her that's died so and
then here in the case of Ma,well, you know, first you're a
reader, right? So these storiesthat you're mentioning, of
course, Avni Roshi book came outwhen I was already halfway
through this novel, but I lovedit. I loved that depiction of
the mother who isn't alwayslooking out for you. Sometimes
(09:00):
is thinking about herself. Ilove the God of small things,
mother as well. She was veryloving, but also said some
things that deeply stuck withme, like she said, I mean, I
quoted it in the beginning ofthis novel, like I referred to
it, which is she tells onecharacter, that's what careless
(09:20):
words do. They make people loveyou a little less. And I think
that's what the mother says tothe girl at the beginning of God
of small things. And you know, Iunderlined that 1000 times over
until the pencil would make herwhole in the paper, because it
just felt so true. The motherscan also show you the reality.
Tara Khandelwal (09:43):
I mean, it is very fascinating. And I agree,
because we all think of ourmothers as sort of, you know,
these mythical creatures. And Icompletely relate, you know,
when you're a child and youfirst finding out, oh, my mom
had a life beyond me, you know,and seeing all those pictures,
that's very. Beautiful. Socoming to the Leela character,
you know, what did you want toshowcase through that, which is
(10:05):
the mother character in yourbook?
Bhavika Govil (10:07):
Well, at first it was just simply, you know,
you're playing different voicesin your head when you're writing
a story, it's as though you arethe interviewer and you are the
interviewee. So I asked certainquestions when I was writing
Meera. So I actually wrote Meeraspot entirely first.
Tara Khandelwal (10:22):
So Meera is the nine year old daughter. Meera is
the nine year old girl.
Bhavika Govil (10:25):
So we begin the story with her, and she sort of
introduces us to the world ofthis family and the background
and the dynamics between all thecharacters. So her elder
brother, Ashu and her mother,leela, who we're speaking of. So
I had written this novel inchunks, actually, although it
appears in a different manner inthe final form. In the book, I
(10:46):
wrote Meera entire portionstogether, so I had left certain
gaps in the story, and so Iraised a few questions that I
then started to answer when Iput on the role the hat of the
mother. So Meera is nine, andshe's observing her mother in
(11:07):
fractured pieces and sort ofglimpses. It's kind of like
looking in a fun house mirror,and you can see twisted versions
of your mother figure, sometimesextremely loving, sometimes
really distant, and you don'tquite know what is the right
image and who that person reallyis. And you know you never
really will if you're anotherperson, and especially if you're
(11:29):
a child. So to enter the scenesbehind the mirror and then to
wear the skin of the mother waslike answering those questions
that I had asked my own self,who is this mother, what brought
her to this point, what makesher sometimes barter love
insidious ways, sort of givemore and dole out more to one
(11:54):
person, and, you know, treat onewith whiplash. Is it whim, or is
there something deeper there?
And okay, she's a mother, butwhat else was she like? What was
her family dynamics? We don'tjust like appear on this earth
from nowhere. I think ourfamilies really shape us, and I
keep repeating in India. Butreally in India, they really do.
(12:16):
Who were around, who theseformative years are spent with
what influences do they have onus? And do we sort of carry some
patterns forward, or are we ableto break them? Those were the
areas I wanted to write about,and why I wrote about, Ma.
Tara Khandelwal (12:35):
And it's very interesting because, yeah, when
you started, even in yourwriting, you're saying you
started with the nine year oldgirl character, and we are
dropped into this novel by thischaracter. And before I come to
this character, who I really,really found very fascinating, I
wanted to get to know a littlebit more about you, because I
know that you've been writingfor a long time. You've been
writing since you were a kid. Sowhat has been your journey
(13:00):
towards writing, you know, andhow and when did this novel
actually begin for
Bhavika Govil (13:07):
you? I don't know when I began writing in the real
sense. I don't know I was very,very interested in physically
holding a pen and paper. So evenwhen I was three and four, all I
would want were like two orthree things as presence in
life. One, a new night suit. Ican't quite explain why a
matching set, what we call aquad set these days, and two, a
(13:31):
brand new notebook and a pen,and if a glitter pen, then even
better. So I just wanted towrite things on paper. I would
write sort of letters to myfather when I would go on
vacation to my Mercy's place,and, you know, misspelled, I
love you, I miss you. This iswhat I ate today. I wrote a lot
(13:51):
in journals, you know, the oneswith locks and keys that you
eventually lose the key, the keyof. And I really was very happy
when we began to write with pensin class. We in my school, we
weren't allowed to until thefifth grade, so that felt like a
graduation to adulthood to haveto be able to formalize thoughts
with ink and on paper. Sothere's that relationship of
(14:15):
just words and
Tara Khandelwal (14:16):
for your parents, also readers and
writers or so now, my
Bhavika Govil (14:20):
mom has an utter fascination for words. She was
never a reader, but she reallyrespected it and admired it. So
though she didn't grow up in ahouse where reading was the
culture, she made sure that sheread a lot to my sister and me
so and she reads now. She readsa lot of books now, but she
really would buy us books. Mydad never said no to a book. So
(14:42):
we had this ritual there once amonth, he would take us to the
bookshop, my sister and me and Iguess I would not pick up too
many, because I always had thissense of this is one is enough,
or two are enough. But even if Ihad asked for more, he would
never have said. Know, said nobecause he told me that his his
(15:03):
father, who I never met, wouldnever say no for books. And he
does come from this line ofeducation. And, you know,
puzzles, toys, they make,academic books for schools. So
there has been this, is thisreverence and respect for the
written word. So this
Tara Khandelwal (15:22):
is something that you were always, just sort
of always attracted to, and I'vebeen working on it for a while,
and it really shows the craftreally shows, you know, so now
let's talk about Meera, the nineyear old daughter, and that's
how we're introduced to thisworld. And she sees and hears
everything and but she doesn'tfully understand what's going
(15:44):
on. It's so relatable to, youknow, all of our childhood
experiences, and it's just sokeenly observed. You know, even
the thing between her brotherashu and Rahul, she senses that
they're not just friends, youknow, she senses that, okay,
something is up with her mom andthe coach character, who also
want to speak about so you knowhow I'm always very fascinated
(16:08):
by literary fiction written froma child's point of view. Another
book that comes to my mind isroom, and room was also written
through a child's point of view,and I just found it so
fascinating. So how do you evensort of get into that
perspective and make it so realrelatable, but at the same time
so evocative and well written?
Thank
Bhavika Govil (16:29):
you. And room is absolutely the first book that
comes to my mind as well. Infact, I don't know if I could
have ever written this had I notread and loved and been
fascinated by room when I readit maybe 15 years ago, or, I
don't know when it came out, butdefinitely more than a decade.
Just
Tara Khandelwal (16:48):
to add context for our listeners who don't know
what room is about, room isabout basically a small child
and his mom who've beenabducted. It's quite a dark
book, who were abducted and haveto live in a small, little room.
And the child is is growing up,and all he knows is that room.
Bhavika Govil (17:06):
Yes. So that boy, Jack is five, and when I read
that book, I was I was stunnedthat you could do that in
fiction and in literature, thatyou could use words that way and
limit them that way, and yetmake your meaning so clear. You
know, sometimes, and this issomething I've noticed in
writing classes, and you know,when teaching writing, and
(17:27):
generally, when speaking withnewer writers, and even myself
earlier, we think we have to bereally complex with our
vocabulary, with our sentenceconstruction, with our phrasal
verbs, with just the way we wantto put our ideas down, that the
more complex a sentence, thebetter the writing is. But I
(17:47):
don't think that's true at all.
In fact, the most clear ideaswill ring true, donated depicted
in a in a simpler manner. That'sless pretentious, I guess I want
to say, but anyway, that justties into this aspect of writing
from a child's perspective. Anysort of wishes I may have had to
(18:07):
show off with my writing, or sayit's my debut novel, let me, you
know, let me show the world whatI can do with which I don't even
know, by the way, but theyweren't there, because when you
have to write from a child'sperspective, you are shedding
every bit of arrogance that youcan build or vocabulary that you
have built up to a certain age,because now you have to limit it
(18:30):
to the age of nine. And how doyou do that? Not entirely sure.
But Meera was Meera, who is mynarrator, was very curious a
child, and luckily, a narratorwho also loved words and was
fascinated by words, so toexplore the story, and you know,
see her world from herperspective, was a lot of fun.
Once I had figured out exactlyhow she speaks and what her
(18:54):
rhythms are, I referred a littlebit to my journals, and I was
looking at Meera, but theydidn't help too much, because I
think Meera is much smarter thanI was. My journals were quite
insipid. That way aboutachieving the effect. You know,
I did do some research, and Iwas reading room again, I was
(19:16):
reading these books, and Irealized that the aim is not
absolute realism. I don't thinkthat when you're writing fiction
at any point are you trying tofool a reader. And a reader
can't be fooled that this ishappening, that you aren't
currently absorbed within thepages of a novel. They are very
aware that this is made up.
(19:38):
Maybe momentarily you can losethem to a feeling, to a thought,
to a place. But I don't have tostrictly sound like a nine year
old, as long as I capture theessence of being a child, and I
can have a little bit of leewaywith the language, the style of
narration, the form, in fact,fidelity, is not. My only
(20:00):
concern, and it wasn't withMeera.
Tara Khandelwal (20:03):
And also, what I found fascinating is it's
Meera is first person, whichmakes it even harder I can
imagine. While you know, theAshu character is third person.
So why did you choose firstperson for
Bhavika Govil (20:17):
her? Then I began writing this novel, and you
know, I never got to that partof how this novel came into
being, but it came into beingsolely because of Meera. I had a
narrator whose age I hadn't yetfigured out, who sort of senses
these undercurrents in herfamily's dynamics, and she when
I first started writing it,Meera was actually an older
(20:39):
protagonist. It was somebody whois speaking in the eye, somebody
is looking back at entering aliving room and sensing that
something is just off, like yousaid, secrets also have a heavy
presence, right so that unsaid,that weight of unsaid things,
the secrecy, the undercurrentsthis person was reflecting on
(21:00):
them, between her mother and herbrother and generally the world.
There were more characters then,and of course, it got sharpened
and as I wrote the novel, butthat person, as I realized, was
Meera, and I wanted to bringimmediacy to the story. It was a
story that had to unfoldeventually over that one summer,
and I didn't want the knowledgeof adulthood in this I didn't
(21:24):
want to have figured it out orhave seen it and then look at
the, you know, it would taintthe way Meera would then
narrate. It's very real time.
Yeah, exactly. I wanted themoment of narration and and the
events occurrence being veryclose to each other in Meera
case, particularly, because thenyou really get into a child's
(21:45):
head, and you see what they see,and you see what they don't see.
As well as an adult reader, I
Tara Khandelwal (21:53):
like that a lot, because you see it's like
sort of, you know, as a reader,you know certain things, but the
protagonist doesn't, and I findthat juxtaposition always very
fascinating. So at the beginningof the book, you dedicated your
parents, and you've written thewords did flow. So I just want
to know what is the story behindthat line.
Bhavika Govil (22:13):
So when I was in school, I would you know how in
CBSE schools, you really haveto, you have to learn a lot of
sort of subheadings andparagraphs and go and sort of
spit those out on the page. Butand my mother was always around,
and you know, she would see mestruggle to memorize everything.
(22:36):
And what she would tell me isthat, you know, everything,
bhavika, don't worry, the wordswill flow. When you go tomorrow
and you put the pen on paper,the words will flow. And
whenever I would come back, I'dsay, yeah, it happened. It All.
It was all fine. So now monthshave years have passed, and we
obviously have not had contextfor that inside seeing, in fact,
(22:58):
nobody besides her and I knowit. She and I know of it. And
then when I started writing thisnovel, I had this little dream
that it will get published atsome point. I hope it does. And
I wrote a dream, a dedicationpage on my laptop, which had
these words. And I kept hopingthat my mom will remember what
(23:19):
the what I'm referring to atall. And of course, I included
my father because I wanted toinclude them both in in this
debut novel dedication. Butreally it was that that when I
started writing this book aswell, there were so many times
when I halted and I wasn't sureif I could move on, and we
didn't discuss it in theseprecise words, but I wanted to
(23:41):
bring back what she would say tome when I was younger. And this
is a book about water, so thewords did flow. And thankfully,
she remembered the reference,and she was kind of happy about
it, very I love
Tara Khandelwal (23:53):
that. Yeah, and coming to water, which was a
very interesting theme, youknow, even the chapters are
split into sections name, plantsurface float. And it feels like
we're swimming through thesecharacters lives, trying to stay
afloat with them. And thesetting is, you know, this club
with a pool. And I think it'svery sort of, we've all sort of
(24:14):
had those summers where, youknow, we would sort of go
swimming with, like, otherchildren and your friends and
your cousins, and there's awhole community aspect to that.
So, yeah, so why the watertheme? Why this setting? Why
does, why do all these secretsspill out over this one summer?
Why is that the inciting part ofthe book?
Bhavika Govil (24:35):
There is a there is a fascination I have for the
swimming pool. And it like, likethe mothers that I was talking
about, they come out in mystories quite often. So does the
pool, which I've noticed evenafter I finished writing hot
water. Some of the short fictionI've written has characters
learning something aboutthemselves when they're
(24:55):
underwater, and maybe there isthe feeling that I get as. A
very amateur swimmer, butsomebody in the water who at
once feels very at peace yetalso disturbed. You're suddenly
everything is so silent whenyou're underwater and you're
between two places at once whenyou're floating, you know you're
(25:16):
part of one world, which is theworld outside the world that's
your real life, and then you'rein there with nobody else, and
just your thoughts and yourinner you know, your your depths
really come to the surface in aswimming pool. That's something
only articulating right now asI'm speaking to you. That
obviously wasn't a consciousdecision in context of this
(25:38):
particular story. I do have,like you mentioned, spent a lot
of time at the club and learningswimming and made some fantastic
friendships. It is a place offreedom. The summer is a play.
Is a time of freedom in my life.
You know, we're in school and wehave all these time bound exams
and activities, and everythingis chopped out for you. And how
(25:58):
much agency do you really havein your life? And then summer,
you get a couple of months, andeverything seems wide open, like
the blue sky, and you have allthese days to spend time in, and
then you have the water. Andit's just a very liberating time
in my memory, and a place whereI thought these characters can
spend time outside the schooland learn more about the family,
(26:21):
learn more about each otherwithout the barriers of you
know, the school bells and sortof lunchtime coming in the way.
And regarding the sectiontitles, I kind of look at this
book in retrospect, havingwritten it as a manual to learn
(26:42):
how to breathe even amidst themost suffocating circumstances
that you may be put through inlife. And these characters, all
of them, in some way, I wouldn'tcall this a coming of age book.
But in some way, each of thesecharacters are coming of age in
(27:02):
this novel, or at or they were,at least in drafts of it that I
had written. Coming of Age hasdifferent meanings with all of
them are coming in to contactwith who they really are as
people and in relation to eachother. And sometimes that comes
with a lot of baggage, and beingin water is is quite a good
(27:26):
metaphor for that to be plungedinto life and then bowing up,
and then sometimes again, goingback down and struggling and
finding your way out of thatdepth and out and finding the
lifeboat, or sort of, yeah,
Tara Khandelwal (27:44):
yeah. I really like how, like, you've talked
about the pool and the wholesort of like atmosphere around
it, and, you know, we alwayssort of associated with this
sort of, like, friendly kind ofsituation. But, you know, it can
be also a little bit sinister,like it reminded me of family
life Akhil Sharma, where thenovel starts with very sad
(28:07):
incident that happens in a pool.
And also at this in the pool. Inyour book, we see the coach
character. And I was veryfascinated with this character.
He and MA seem to have somethinggoing on between them, and he
turns out to be quite a shadycharacter. Meera obviously
doesn't like him, becausethere's an incident between both
(28:30):
of them that is not savory atall, without giving anything
away. So can you tell me alittle bit more about this
character and what you wanted toshowcase through him.
Bhavika Govil (28:43):
So Coach is this, you know, your typical male
character at the club, the guywho has a whistle around his
neck and trains the children, ishalf heartedly interested in his
job. Don't really know what hisinner world contains, I think I
wanted to be a little distantfrom him. I always saw him from
(29:06):
other people's perspectives, butMa is drawn to him for reasons
that I can't quite explain. ButMa has a difficult time seeing
what people are right for her,this is a pattern that she's
unable to break, and it would besimplistic of me to say now
she's learned her lesson. Ithink sometimes lessons just
(29:27):
keep repeating themselves inways that we would rather them
not so Ma has this fascinationof not fascination, but like
she's interested in the way thatcoach makes her feel seen, and
Meera sees that, and she feelsat once uncomfortable, one
because as children, we don'twant anybody to come between us
and our immediate circle, ourparents. So when she sees ma
(29:52):
hold his hand, her heart sort ofthinks that, oh, she has less
time to hold my hand. Now, youknow, there's a very direct
math. Going on if she likes thisperson, how can she like me? If
she loves me, how can she lovethat person? Is it possible to
do things, things at once? Sothrough coach, I was exploring
what happens when an externalperson enters their life, and
(30:15):
also how motherhood is sodifficult. You know, you can't
always blame the mother foreverything, but you do have to
be really vigilant with who youmake enter your your family
life, and your your home andyour domestic spaces. We don't
get to see too much of coachbecause there are these labels.
So Ma is mA and coach is coach.
And these kids have thisconversation by the pool where
(30:36):
they say, Isn't it funny howsome people are always known by
what they do, and that's truefor a lot of characters in the
book, especially when you lookfrom a child's perspective, you
only see them from that onelabel, that one lens. So Coach,
to an extent, even to me as awriter, is just coach. I don't
know his name, I just know thathe is somebody that I would keep
at an arm's length, and thatit's important to sort of really
(30:58):
check the people that we bringinto our home, especially when
children are involved,
Tara Khandelwal (31:06):
yeah, definitely, that's so important.
What I was also fascinated withis what you said about patterns,
right? And ma choosing, youknow, these patterns in life
again and again, and we find outthrough a story that, you know,
she does have a pattern ofchoosing certain men, and that
has those repercussions in herchildren's lives, and that's how
all those secrets come out andeverything like that. And then,
(31:28):
you know, the whole situationkind of implodes a bit because
of that. So for that reason, Ifound this character very, very
interesting, and also because heis someone at an arm's length.
And also I was wondering, oh,you know, how could she it's a
very human thing. It's like, howcan the mom not see this? But
she has her own lens throughwhich she is viewing the world.
(31:48):
So I really like that as well.
Another thing that there's somany themes in this book that
you brought so well together.
And one of the things that Ireally liked was the sibling
bond, you know, between Meeraand her big brother. And Meera
really looks up to a bigbrother, and she follows him
around. And, you know, she evensays things like, Oh, I know him
best. And then on the flip side,we have Mark leela, who, you
(32:12):
know, kind of has very fraughtrelationship with her own family
and own sister. One of thereasons that, you know, they
can't the sibling, the Meera andAshu can't quite grasp who Ma
is, or there's so many secrets.
Is because ma herself is verysecretive about her family. And
you know, when people ask her,she says, I don't have a family.
And then Meera and ash werelike, oh, but we are right here.
(32:34):
And she means her other familythat you know something had
happened, and she left them andshe distanced herself. So yeah,
how did you get into the mindsetof these very two different
sibling dynamics? Sibling
Bhavika Govil (32:48):
relationships have always been a part of my
life. I'm a younger sister. Ihave an elder sister, and apart
from that, I come from a reallylarge family with so many
cousins that we never reallyeven call each other cousins. We
always say brothers and sisters.
So that, that has been anintrinsic part of who I am, I
think, especially when you'rethe younger sibling, you kind of
(33:09):
you're never just you. Youalways see yourself in relation
to another person who is livinga very similar life to than you
to you, yet you can sense thatthere's a gulf between you and
them, that you are differentpeople. And in the case of like
you, so nicely pointed out,there is mA and her sibling
(33:32):
dynamic. That is one parallel inthe story. And then we have in
present time, Meera, who isnine, and Ashu, who is five
years older than her, and shecalls him Ashu. There's no Bhaya
and all of that over here. So,you know, we see MA and her
sister at the at a point wherethey're little older and and
then Meera and Ashu right now,are at the beginning of their
(33:54):
life. So to say they're at thebeginning of living, what
happens to siblings over time?
You know, I'm interested inwhether, you know, we're so
tightly brought together with sotightly stories are so tightly
woven together initially inthose early years. And then, you
(34:14):
know, siblings move out, or theygo to college, or you somebody
gets married, or somebody, youknow, some something happens
which is not even external, whathappens to a relationship? Then
are we able to, sort of like, goforward in life, keeping that
bond really close to you, or arewe going to move apart and maybe
come back together at somepoint, I see this in a way in
(34:37):
the novel that you know,siblings are like siblings are
born in the same river, but atsome point the chart and the
course of that river maydissect, and that's what I
wanted to bring out bit in theparallels between them and about
just like Meera and Ashu, theyhave such a beautiful and sweet
sibling relationship. Ashu is,you know. Everything to Meera.
(35:01):
And Meera sees him foreverything that he is. Like you
mentioned earlier, he can seewho he likes. It's so obvious to
her. It's so funny that otherscan't see it. But you know to
know something, you have to seesomebody, and you to see them in
love. And she's she does that.
So therefore perhaps she doesknow Ashu best, and she's right
about that. And as for Ashu, heis older, so of course, he does
love Meera a lot like and he'svery protective of her, and he
(35:24):
is fond of her, but she is hiskid. Sisters. Is a five year age
gap there, and Ashu has morecomplicated problems and sort of
his own inner world that'svibrant, that doesn't get to be
showcased in this home, but hegets to show it outside, and he
gets to show it with his friendwho he is, if he's if he's
(35:46):
funny, if He's witty, what arethe sides of him that Meera
can't understand his sarcasm andthings like that, right? So
Ashu, somewhat, is still alittle lonely. He's older, so
he's in a gulf. He's vacuumsealed in an experience that
only he knows the inside of, andMeera can't understand, at least
not until they're much older,because there will be that no
matter how old Meera gets,she'll always be five years
(36:09):
younger to him, I
Tara Khandelwal (36:11):
think you've captured the sibling dynamic so
well. And I think I'm an I'm anelder sibling, so it is a little
lonely. You know, it's lonely atthe top, because you are going
through everything and first andhaving these adult experiences,
even I have a five year age gap,but, yeah, that's quite a big
(36:34):
age gap at that point, right?
And that's a completelydifferent life stage, and you
can't relate at some points. Andthen now, as an as adults, also,
you know, I'm finding thesibling dynamics changing,
because we're all moving out ofthe house, we're getting our own
lives. Then what happens? Andeven I wonder, okay, what
happens? Sort of like,extrapolate that to like, sort
(36:55):
of like, 1020, 3040, years. So Ireally like what you said about
that? And I found the Ashucharacter quite fascinating,
because, you know, he feels likehis mom likes Meera a little bit
more than she likes him. And fora child, you know, like,
obviously, when you ask yourparents, your parents, we have
no favorites, and you're made tofeel like, you know, you're both
equal or three equal. But hedoes feel like there's something
(37:20):
kind of a miss, and he compares,you know, how his mom is with
Meera, and how his mom is withhim. And we kind of find out why
that is, in the end. So I foundthat very interesting and very
raw, because it's not somethingthat's spoken about, you know,
having favorites. It's alwayslike, Oh no, no, no. Or the
different treatment of differentchildren, that is not something
(37:41):
that is talked about at all in afamily setting. I don't
Bhavika Govil (37:49):
know why it's not spoken about, but I do know I
could ever speak about it, andit's not something that I have
felt in my family dynamic. I'vemy parents have been very equal
in Meera words, and they'reloving, but I have been a kid in
a school room who has felt notseen, or can very obviously tell
(38:09):
that the teacher has a dislikeof me sometimes, or really
prefers the other children, andthat feeling you can't put into
words because you What Do yousay? Oh, I feel bad because I
wasn't asked to bring the Dusterto my teacher and somebody else
was, you know, that's how itwhat it boils down to, right?
(38:29):
Somebody doesn't notice you in amoment, or makes you feel a
little smaller. And that's oneexample. But I guess even adults
feel that in so many times,right, in a meeting, in a party,
on it, on a date, that in afriendship, in a friendship of
three people, that the thirdfriend, these kind of dynamics
(38:50):
of just not feeling very seen,though, that it's not something
that you can ever really bringup this. It's so intangible,
this kind of an emotion and ashwas right to pick up on these
threads. It's really just anemotion. The only difference is
that he, as a character, doesn'tdwell on it too much, because he
does have a lot more going on.
He's 14, and he has thisfriendship that he's embroiled
(39:12):
in, and there's something sortof happening, as he says at the
back of his knees that summer.
And he's got other things hefocuses on, or chooses to focus
on, but you do pick up on it,they're sort of like, it's like
frequencies in the radio. Youjust just need to tune in and
you'll know it's there. It'sright there.
Tara Khandelwal (39:33):
Yeah, I really like that exploration as well.
So there's so many differentscenes in the book, you know. So
for you, what was your sort ofhardest scene to write and
which? Which one is yourfavorite? So
Bhavika Govil (39:46):
I think for me, all of Ashu was difficult to
write and it was difficult tocrack I wrote him last, and I
just couldn't nail his voice.
Tara, it was like I first wroteit in the first person.
Actually, I tried to, I did, didnot work. He was not a character
who wanted to be that vocal andthat self aware. And, you know,
like Meera, as a narrator, wantsto speak instead of blabber a
(40:10):
little bit. Ah, she was aquieter person. And I it was
just not in his nature to totell his story in the first
person, especially when you haveso much going on around you. So
I've looked at him through alens of a narrator then how was
close to his head space, closeenough to his interiorities, to
interiorities to dip into itthen, but distant enough to
(40:33):
sometimes even make sense ofobservations that Ashu would not
be able to make so I had thatnarratorial help. It was
difficult to get into hisperspective, though, because he
is, he was sort of the lastcharacter I got to know
intimately. I saw him fromdifferent viewpoints. I saw him
from Ma, I saw him from hislittle sister. And then who was
(40:56):
he and how does he feel aboutthis? You know, I was right as I
was writing the book, and I wastelling you the core of the book
reveals itself to you as you'rewriting it. Perhaps this is a
novel about the things that arenot said. Perhaps it's a novel
about secrets, and perhaps, veryimportantly, a dark core of this
novel is the relationshipbetween MA and Ashu, and I have
(41:17):
been tiptoeing around it inthese different perspectives,
but I need to look at it head onnow, and I need to see how this
child feels about it at 14 plus,you know, he's a 14 year old
boy, and that's a very differentperspective for me as a writer
to occupy, because genuinely, Ihave not written Many male
characters before this, andparticularly adolescent male
(41:40):
characters, always looked atthem from afar, never had a
chance to think what they may bethinking or have empathy for
them. And then Ashur made iteasy eventually, because he's a
very likable 14 year old boy.
He's not boisterous, he's gentleand he's kind. Yet that barrier
(42:02):
was definitely there. And as formy favorite scenes to write, I
know I wasn't particular inwhich scene was difficult, but
yeah, my favorite scenes arereally I guess. I loved
exploring ashu and Rahul andtheir relationship. I really
liked seeing their friendshipand getting into that slightly
(42:24):
blissful part of the summerwhere otherwise certain dark
things are taking place. It feltpeaceful to be in the in the
room and both of them weretogether. And I also enjoyed the
scene where I the earlier sceneswhere Meera is sitting in the
car with ashu and MA. So Iintroduced the world through the
(42:47):
children sitting in Mars Sunyellow car, and they're going
around town, and they're seeingwhat the neighborhood looks
like, and the gulmoha tree, and,you know the way that
electricity wires arecrisscrossing in the sky, things
like that. I enjoyed. It feltlike a fun little happy ride,
though it wasn't obviously, butto be in the car with the three
of them and see their world andintroduce it to other readers
(43:12):
was quite enjoyable.
Tara Khandelwal (43:13):
Yeah, I think teenage, 48 year old teenage
boys could, might as well beanother species to me. So I
don't know you wrote that, butit was really well done. So
which one, which one was yourfavorite character? Do you have
a favorite character?
Bhavika Govil (43:28):
If I said that, I'd be that teacher who's giving
a duster to another one kid,right?
Tara Khandelwal (43:33):
Fair enough.
Fair enough. Maybe you secretlyhave one. And you know, I also
wanted to know about the journeytowards publishing because, you
know, it's a debut, and I thinka lot of people want to know how
that process was, and you alsohave an international agent
who's now pitching itinternationally, and this cover
is just fabulous. I really,really love the cover. So, yeah,
(43:57):
could you tell me a little bitmore about publishing journey,
yeah,
Bhavika Govil (44:04):
so I been writing short stories for a few years,
which is, we were talking aboutgirdle and the bound short story
prize. You know, that wasactually my first ever writing
win, and it was the one of myfirst few submissions. And it
felt like the biggest win in theworld to have somebody read your
work and think it's good enough.
So that was six years ago. NowI'm afraid to say, time has
(44:27):
passed, and shortly after thatshort story and I wrote a few
more on the summer of 2020, Ibegan writing the beginnings of
this novel. At that time, thenovel was called the silent
treatment, and I, I just sort ofbegin, begun exploring my way
through it, not really knowingexactly what the books about
(44:49):
what perspectives would be init, what the technical decisions
would be. Simply put, I was justfascinated by this. I. This
family and the ways in whichthey were unraveling. And, you
know, you pull one thread, andeverything would collapse. And I
could sense that, and it's sofragile, the bonds in which they
were keeping. Started writingthat, and it was the pandemic. I
(45:10):
was submitting it as adissertation project for my
Masters, and I had 20,000 wordsto write, and those happened
pretty easily. Have a surprise,because it was my first novel,
and I don't don't know how towrite a novel, so I wrote Meera
spot, and then months passed,and I have no idea what to do
next, because I'm stucknarratively and plot wise. I
(45:32):
didn't know what comes next, soI saw a call for a writing
prize, which was by an agent,Pontus agency in Spain. That
agency, at that time, used torepresent Avni Doshi and Janice
parriot and Shivangi Swaroop,all of which are such phenomenal
Indian writers that I justapplied it was a prize for a
(45:54):
novel in progress, so you don'thave to have it figured out.
Essentially, you submit asynopsis in around three
chapters or certain number ofwords to the prize, and that's
it. You send it in and you wait.
So I sent it in pretty much notthinking too much. In fact, I
kind of forgot about it becausethere was another wave of the
(46:15):
pandemic and there were moreimportant things taking place.
And yeah, essentially, I gotshortlisted for that prize, and
then I co won the prize withanother writer that was 2021 and
suddenly things just sort ofbecame a little better. I had an
agent now that was representingme and somebody external, and
(46:38):
that to international, sayingthat, yeah, we too, see, think
that the story has scoped to bepublished, and that you must
keep on writing it. So I did. Ispent the next year and a half
going over, finishing one draftand another, learning every time
that it's not working. I'veheard so many times that we love
(46:58):
it, we love the voices, but, youknow, it's not a novel yet. It's
like vignettes. Or maybe itshould be one character only.
Maybe it should be only thesetwo characters. Perhaps you'd
want to change this about it,everything well meaning, but
nothing was coming close to whatI saw the book as. It wasn't
matching my vision for the book,which I, too, was discovering.
(47:19):
So it was a lot of back andforth and a lot of trying to
crack the structure. I guessthat's what I'm speaking about,
the ways in which things shouldunfold, the timing of things
this, the ways in which chaptersand sections are divided, that
kind of a thing. And then acouple of years later, around
2023 we got when we felt it wasgood enough to at least go out
(47:43):
to publishers. We submitted it,and that's when I got the
publishing deal with HarperCollins, India, with at that
time. I mean, even now, my dreameditor, Rahul Soni, and I, since
then, I've also worked withdharni Bhaskar, and it's thanks
to the editors and thanks totime that I gave the book that
it's come into the shape atwhich I am genuinely happy,
(48:07):
people are saying it's a novel.
In fact, it says a novel on thecover. So I'm very happy about
that, so to say. And now it'sout here, and I can keeping my
fingers crossed, and pleasecross yours that it gets deals
abroad. I do have a translationdeal for France, so that's
exciting, and the cover isbeautiful. It's thanks to the
lovely Bonita wa shimre, who isa designer at Harper Collins,
(48:31):
and she really read the book,interpreted it, and wanted to
bring out the depths of it aswell as, like, the lightness of
it. A lot of hard
Tara Khandelwal (48:42):
work has gone into the book. And, yeah, those,
those are fantastic editors, andit's definitely the hottest book
of the summer, because I'mseeing it everywhere, nod
magazine, platform and even themarketing of the book. I mean,
it's sort of one of those booksthat you want in your beach bag
(49:03):
as well. That's not a beachread. A beach read, yeah, but
no, I'm really glad to see sortof, you know, so much publicity
and well warranted. So what'snext for you? What are you doing
next? What are you writing onnext? I have
Bhavika Govil (49:21):
been writing snippets of things, things that
don't really form a part of anything large or anything more
whole. Honestly, this past monthhas been really sort of being
lost in marketing and publicityand conversations about Meera,
Ashu and Ma, so it's nice tolive with them a little bit
longer and hear what otherpeople think about those
(49:43):
characters, but like, I'mjournaling a lot these days. I'm
trying to see what's occupyingmy mind. There is just so much
going on with the world itselfthat it's an explosion of
thoughts and feelings. And Iwill be writing a book. Next for
sure, I I have a novel. I have acontract for a novel, so I have
(50:04):
to write one, really. This isthe French deal. Ah. So anyway,
irrespective of that, I would bewriting a book, and it would be
a novel. I just don't know what,quite yet, though, like a voice
is coming to my mind, and it'snot a child, and I'm interested
(50:26):
in seeing who it what they haveto say and who they are, and I
think I also repeat our shortstory. So I would love, at some
point to put together acollection, sooner than later.
But yes, these are the projectsthat I can see, but I need to
work on them. It's
Tara Khandelwal (50:44):
very exciting.
And I love reading shortstories. I love a good book of
short stories. Jhumpa Larry,short stories are some of my
absolute favorites, and evenAkhil Sharma.
Bhavika Govil (50:54):
I must read Akhil Sharma. You You mentioned, yeah,
Tara Khandelwal (50:58):
he's one of my favorite authors, definitely.
And I think you, particularlyafter reading your writing, will
really enjoy but thank you somuch. This was so much fun. I
think I learned a lot more aboutthe characters, and I always
love finding out about thestories behind the stories, and
(51:18):
speaking to fiction writer. Sothank you so much for this.
Bhavika Govil (51:21):
Thank you so much. Tara.
Tara Khandelwal (51:24):
Hope you enjoyed this episode of Books
and Beyond with bound.
Michelle D'costa (51:28):
This podcast is created by bound, a company
that helps you grow throughstories. Find us at bound India
on all social media platforms.
Tara Khandelwal (51:36):
Tune in every Wednesday as we peek into the
lives and minds of somebrilliant authors from India and
South Asia. You.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com