June 17, 2025 • 44 mins
What happens when a celebrated film journalist turns the camera inward?
In this moving episode, veteran critic and author Bhawana Somaaya unpacks her memoir Farewell Karachi. Known for her decades-long career documenting Bollywood’s biggest stars like Hema Malini and Amitabh Bachchan, Bhawana shares the deeply personal stories behind her family’s displacement from Karachi to Mumbai during Partition.
She recounts everything from her mother’s hilarious one-liners about working as a young journalist in the 1970s to the emotional weight of her father’s solitary journey during Partition and the legacy of a lost home. The conversation flows through intimate anecdotes, candid reflections, and the subtle power of memories that shape who we become.
Bhawana’s honest reflections offer a masterclass in sensitivity and storytelling. Her journey shows that emotional intelligence isn’t just a trait—it’s a lens, a compass, and sometimes, the story itself.
Books, shows, and films mentioned in this episode:
- Because He Is by Meghna Gulzar
- Darlingji: The True Love Story of Nargis and Sunil Dutt by Kishwar Desai
- Parveen Babi by Karishma Upadhyay
- A Palace of Illusions by Chitra Banerjee Divakaruni
- Pakeezah
- Garm Hava
- Navrang
- Kaun Banega Crorepati
‘Books and Beyond with Bound’ is the podcast where Tara Khandelwal and Michelle D’costa uncover how their books reflect the realities of our lives and society today. Find out what drives India’s finest authors: from personal experiences to jugaad research methods, insecurities to publishing journeys. Created by Bound, a storytelling company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social media platforms.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tara Khandelwal (00:01):
Foreign Welcome to Books and Beyond. With bound
I'm Tara Khandelwal and I'mMichelle d'cota, in this
podcast, we talk to India'sfinest
Michelle D'costa (00:10):
authors and uncover the stories behind the
best written book
Tara Khandelwal (00:15):
and dissect how these books shape our lives and
worldviews today.
Michelle D'costa (00:20):
So let's dive in.
Tara Khandelwal (00:22):
Hi everyone.
Welcome back to Books andBeyond. So if you are a regular
listener, you know how much Ilove reading stories about the
partition, and we have spoken toauthors lecture of energy and
Acharya Malhotra on the podcast,and so many authors who have
written on the partition. Buttoday I am super excited because
we have Bhavna Somaya ma'am, andshe's a film journalist, and she
has written extensively on Hindicinema and biographies of actors
(00:45):
like Amitabh Bachchan and HemaMalini. And she has taken a very
different take on the partitionwith her book farewell Karachi,
which is a lovely memoir whereshe looks inwards and she writes
about five generations of herown family, so it's a lovely
family story, and she writesabout the journey they went
through as they uprooted theentire lives and moved from
(01:08):
Karachi to Bombay. Now, my greatgrandfather had also uprooted
his entire life and moved fromKarachi to Bombay as well. And I
was always so curious about, youknow, his life, but he's
obviously no more, and I neverhad access to it, so I was all
the more interested in readingthis book. So thank you, Bhavna,
ma'am, and welcome to thepodcast.
Bhawana Ma'am (01:30):
Thank you for inviting me, and I'm very
surprised that somebody as youngas you also has a baggage of the
partition, and even if yourgrandfather is no more, I'm sure
you found him somewhere lurkingin my book and the voice you
found I
Tara Khandelwal (01:49):
did. I did.
That's That's why I enjoyed itso much, you know. And I just
wish that I the way you hadaccess to your family stories. I
just wish I had access, becauseI can't imagine building life
from scratch. So the first thingI want to ask you is about
Karachi itself, because you saythat Karachi is like a lot lost
sibling to, you know. And Ireally like that analogy because
you said it's always there everydinner table conversation, and
(02:12):
your parents would bring it upall the time, and obviously, you
know, you've never been able togo so can you tell me what it
was like to write about thiscity, and why have you decided?
Okay, you know, I will writethis memoir right now see
Bhawana Ma'am (02:29):
when I was your age, and when they spoke about
partition, and they spoke aboutmigration and they spoke about
displacement. I don't think wetake it that seriously. We just
think that it's something thathappened to them, and we move on
with our lives and our careers.
It's as you get older and youunderstand things and you see
(02:50):
the larger picture, that thingsstart taking shape in your head.
But I think that because Karachiwas always in the conversation
and omnipresent at our home, andit was a very large family, I
was always curious, and maybethat's why I became a writer. So
I was always asking manyquestions, but I was not making
(03:11):
any notes. There was no notes.
There was no ambition to becomea journalist or to become a
writer. When I grew up, it wasjust inquisitiveness, curiosity,
asking, and I have a very goodmemory, so it's all there in my
head and heart. I didn't setabout to write a book on the
(03:33):
city called Karachi. I just setabout to pay tribute to my
parents, and wrote this book.
And then while we were jugglingwith what title to call it,
instead of making it a personaltitle, I felt that it should be
a more generic title, so morereaders are drawn to it, and
that is how I said farewellKarachi, because now in my head,
(03:56):
I have resigned to the fact thatI will never see the city,
because the situations aregetting worse and I'm getting
older, so maybe I'll never gothere. And it was never meant to
be. That's why, in spite ofwriting so many books, I was
never invited for Karachi LitFest. I was never invited to
(04:17):
Lahore Film Festival. It justnever happened. And actually, I
started writing the book onlyabout a year and a half ago. I
hesitated and I hesitated and Ihesitated of starting to punch
the words on my keyboard. I wasin my head and heart drawing
pictures. Then I said it's nowor never, because I'm getting
(04:43):
older. And then I rememberedYash Chopra in an interview,
said to me that when I wanted tomake veer Zara and I was frailer
and older, my son said to methat, Papa, you don't need to go
to Karachi Allahu. Everything isavailable on the internet. And
I'll show it to you. So I said,if ya Shukra can make Vir Zara
without going to the soil. Ikept fantasizing that I need to
(05:06):
breathe the soil. I need to seethe city in my own way and feel
the textures. I realized that Idon't need to do that. In fact,
I think now the distance isbetter because it keeps my
objectivity, and which is alsothe reason this is not a
documentation of the family interms of memories. I am not
(05:31):
speaking to every member of thefamily and asking them, What are
your memories of thegrandfather, or what are your
memories of the father. It's mymemories and where I am failing
in the jigsaw puzzle fallinginto place. For example, on that
day when the riots broke out in47 then my blood sister, the
(05:51):
oldest one, is no more, so Icalled up my Mercy's daughter,
my cousin, and I asked her torecord because she's almost the
same age, so it's when I'mstumbling, I'm asking otherwise,
it's my memoir
Tara Khandelwal (06:09):
understood. And that's very interesting, because
I was going to ask you aboutyour research process, you know,
because you and now I know thatyou said that you have a good
memory, and that shows
Bhawana Ma'am (06:20):
the research was there, yeah, my oldest sister
gave me a list of our ancestorsand how they worked and where.
So that gave me a kind ofpremise. And then my sister in
Berlin, who I repeatedly saidthat you write down for me the
description of our Karachiancestral home and our Bucha
(06:45):
home the catch. And she said,I'll give it to you. I'll give
it to you. And she never did.
And years rolled into decades.
And then she expired, and thenmy brother in law expired, and
then my nephew was clearing thehouse. And, you know, giving
things away in abroad, it islike one day you come, the
children come from differentcities, and they just clear it.
(07:06):
They give it away, everythingand donation. And beneath her
mattress, she found exercisesheets where she has written the
description of the two houses.
And I was waiting, I think, forthat. Then, of course, it is the
writer's skill about where areyou going to put it, which
chapter and how and what, whohas told me. So, you know, it
(07:27):
was, I was, it was a gamble. Ididn't have any chronological
order. See, when you're doing abook on Bachan, I know
satyendusani is the beginning. Iknow Alaba this the beginning,
and I know that Kalinga is theend at the moment, same with
him, Malani, but I didn't knowanything. I was just, I think
(07:49):
the universe wanted to help me.
So it fell into together, yeah,and Javed Saab. That is Javed
actor. He knows my family, so hekept saying, liquid CO fiction,
liquor, her chapter, a kick.
Sebring, good. Dedicate Karu topage up we Hoge apne fiction,
leaky head to beneca, because Isaid that I felt that people
(08:14):
would be addicted to the storyor the narrative if they know
it's my real story. Byfictionalizing it, I'm
trivializing it. And I said Ididn't do it the way you asked
me to do it. I did it the way itcame to me. A writer cannot go
by any footnotes of anybody. Icannot look back. I cannot ask
(08:36):
somebody to help me. I'm on thedelivery table, and I'm
delivering a child. How thelabor pangs I go through,
whether it's going to be asmooth delivery or the baby, is
going to trouble me, is my fate.
Tara Khandelwal (08:52):
I love that story about how I found the
sketches, and that was reallywonderful. And I think, yes, the
universe probably did conspire.
You know, these are things thatsometimes just happen to us. And
you said the book is one and ahalf years that it took you one
and a half years, but I thinkit's so many more years in the
making when that it finally cametogether in one and a half
years. And you also said that,you know, you could not travel
(09:14):
to Karachi, but you could traveland you travel to Kutch, and you
travel to these other placeswhere your family had these
routes. So could you tell me alittle bit more about that?
Bhawana Ma'am (09:23):
So I went to Kutch and saw the historical
places like the mandavi port,the Dharamshala, where they took
one night stay before moving toBucha. It all looked so faded
and pale, and I took a verybrief tour to Kalyan, where the
(09:49):
refuge camp was there. Therefugee camp doesn't exist
anymore. But I saw the colony,poor Andre colony, and then I
went to Mulu. Moon where I wasborn. And you know, it's so
strange, because my memory ofmulloon is I was there only for
three and a half years. Theytook me away from there, and
(10:11):
when I was four years old, Istarted my school at matuga,
sad, but I remember me crawlingin the kitchen when my mother
was cooking or doing herdomestic chores, and she had one
toy for me. You know of twowrestlers, wrestling, you know
where you're pulling one stick.
I don't know why my motherthought that her eighth girl
child should be given towrestlers, but that is somebody
(10:35):
must have given her that toy,and she must have given it to me
at that time, that space lookedso big because I was a child,
and now, when I visited thatplace, that whole building has
turned into a commercialcomplex. And I told the
Watchman, is there anybody whois still living here? And he
(10:55):
said, key sub bargain. Mother ekfamily Hai, Mother wo aapko
under cu aninge. So I said,consi Manzil peh, let me try. So
I went to her, and I said that Ionce lived here, and she
couldn't believe me. So I said,My parents lived here. I said,
Can I come in? And reluctantly,she agreed, because nobody was
(11:20):
at home, and we were sitting inthat kitchen where I remember
myself crawling, and the kitchenlooks so small. And I said, what
has happened? Has my visionchange? Am I now a big adult,
grown up, and, you know, mymother used to have a homemade
swing on the door with a sari,put on it like a saddle, and
(11:46):
they would put me on it, and Iit faced the station road. And
whole day I used to sit there,and whoever the adult was
passing by would just pat me sothat the swing was on. And I
feel that my observations and mypower of absorption started
somewhere there, because I waswholly facing the street and
(12:08):
listening to adult sounds andwatching the vendors, the
hawkers, the people who werebuying veggies, passers by, what
they were, what they the bodylanguage. I think all that
Tara Khandelwal (12:26):
you're a fabulous storyteller. Can I can
just imagine myself then whatyou said about visiting places
of your childhood. My grandpaused to take us to this beach
hotel when we were kids. And Iremember it, you know, to be
this very grand, huge kind ofproperty, and I remember us
swimming in the pool, and Irecently went back to see it,
and it was so small and it wasso unassuming, and it was not
(12:49):
grand. And I mean, it's so funnyhow our memories can also
distort depending on sort of theage we're at and where we're at,
and the emotional resonance thatwe attach to these things. So I
think also you've written thatin the book way, and I really
resonated with that as well. Youknow,
Bhawana Ma'am (13:07):
Tara, it is about as you rise in life and status.
So I only visit the best homesbecause I'm meeting people who
are the dream merchants and whomade it very big in life. But
the only constants in my lifeare the siblings, the friends
and the relatives and theirhomes remain almost unchanged,
(13:30):
and it doesn't make a differenceto the equation of the
relationship or to my vision of
Tara Khandelwal (13:36):
them. Oh, absolutely, those relationships
are the ones that ground you.
And coming back, you know thestories about partition. You
know, I love stories aboutpartition. I read a lot, watch a
lot of movies, and actually didmy thesis on partition when I
was in college as well. Sothat's why I was very excited to
do this. But I wanted to askyou, since you're a film critic,
you know, there's so many moviescoming out around this topic. So
(13:58):
how does it feel now, sort of,as a film critic, to watch all
these movies and this contentthat's coming out. Do they
resonate with you, or do youtend to detach
Bhawana Ma'am (14:10):
from them? So many films on partition one has
seen, and they are differentprojections of the director, but
it was always when you saw themor you read books on them. It
was something that happened tosomebody else. But it is when
I'm putting that incident wheremy cousin talks to me about how
the house was invaded and howher MLA Doctor father said, shut
(14:36):
the gates, shut the door, shuteverything, and there were only
four women of different agegroup in the house, and my heart
goes out for my aunt, who hasthe acumen that she cannot help
her mother in law and sister inlaw, but she has to save her
young daughter and how she locksherself up in the store room.
(15:00):
And that anguish, you know,because a child is screaming and
she's covering her mouth, willstay with me forever. It's
chilling and and when the gatesopen and when the men come, the
entire house, the vehicles,everything is in flames. But for
me, the saddest moment in thebook is one when my mother has a
(15:21):
miscarriage and she endures iton her own because she's so
sensitive to her partner, whoshould not be troubled after two
jobs a day and will only wakehim up when it's time to go to
the hospital. I think that kindof sensitivity is seldom showed
in today's marriages, it's allabout yourself and immediate
(15:44):
sharing, which is sometimeswrong, because you need to
process things. And when myfather is lost and has not come
back, and the family is waitingin the Kutch house, and when he
comes looking like a scavengerand they cannot recognize him, I
have wept every single
Tara Khandelwal (16:01):
time. Oh, I can only imagine. I mean, it was a
very emotional journey. Youknow, reading the book as a
reader, obviously as well,right? Because there's so many
roller coasters, and this isreality. So they say truth is
sometimes stranger than fiction.
And I think, you know, this bookreally sometimes exemplifies it.
And coming to sort of writingmemoirs, and, you know,
(16:21):
remembering family members.
Actually also wrote a book aboutmy grandfather, because he was a
very, you know, well knownarchitect that sort of made it
from nothing. And he, I really,and he was very vivacious
person, and all these storiesthat he had, so I really wanted
to chronicle it was a veryspecial experience for me, so I
(16:43):
can only imagine what it musthave been like for you to sort
of speak about your family insuch an in depth way. And
there's so many anecdotes asyou've been telling me that come
in to the story. So out of thefamily members that have read
this book, I'd love to knowabout you know, their reactions,
and we already mentioned a bitof their contributions
Bhawana Ma'am (17:04):
to this book, the younger generation for whom I
have actually written it so thatit's documented for them, have
all ordered the book becauseit's so easy to order on Amazon
now, but I don't think they haveall read it as yet, because they
are All in high flying jobs, andthen they are young parents and
juggling time to family and workand exercise routines and all
(17:30):
that, travel plans. Most of thesiblings are no more, but the
siblings, my friends and evenstrangers whom I don't know, who
have read the book and who gotmy number. Everybody has phoned
me crying on the phone, andeverybody has said that they
(17:50):
have wept. And the last one whocalled me, she couldn't stop
sobbing, and she's not even afriend of mine, and I said, Why
are you crying? Are you feelingbad for me or what is it? So she
said, I'm crying for the lossthat how a robust family
eventually shrinks like you saidthat while other families are
(18:14):
rapidly increasing, my familywas shrinking. But that's part
of life. A robust tree alsowithers away the leaves and a
new tree comes up. That's life.
Yeah,
Tara Khandelwal (18:27):
I think, you know, in India, obviously,
family is so important. Soanyone reading this, you know,
and even my grandparents, theyhad so many siblings, and it was
such a large family. My Nani hasso many siblings. My daddy has,
I think I don't even know howmany siblings they have. And my
mom and dad each have twosiblings each. And now, when it
(18:50):
comes to my generation and thenext generation after me, people
are not even having children, ormaybe it's just one child. And I
always think, you know, becauseI grew up in such a large
extended family, and that hasgiven me so much resilience in
life that what is going tohappen now when those families
become smaller and smaller,
Bhawana Ma'am (19:09):
they are all going to be emotionally
impoverished. It cannotunderstand the importance of a
strong foundation of love,support, trust, transparency,
aware of your strengths,weaknesses, your limitations,
(19:33):
and as it is, equations changewhen your parents are no more
with each Other. So the I havean insight even about, you know,
the present generation of stars,I would say, from the generation
of Deepika, Barukh and allbecause till Rani, Mukherjee,
Aishwarya Rai still, they wereinteracting with the media. What
(19:56):
is happening with the presentgeneration is that they are.
Controlled by several managersagencies. There is a finance
manager, there is a mediamanager, there is a brand
manager. They are isolated,whereas in our time, when in the
(20:16):
late 70s, I started, I mean,imagine I've interacted with
Rekha in the 70s and the 80s andthe 90s, in the 2000 2010 2020
we were their confidants,because otherwise, where are
they going to have friends? Theynever went to college,
Tara Khandelwal (20:32):
absolutely. And actually, I wanted to ask you
about that part of your life,also, because it was very
interesting to see the constantpresence of movies and interest
in the film industry throughoutyour family. So you had spoken
about your grandfather's filmdistribution business, and now
your relatives were evenscandalized that he was
attending all these filmparties, because, you know,
(20:52):
nobody in your community hadbeen involved in that industry.
So, you know, I would, I reallywant to know, you know, where
did your interest in the filmindustry come from? And can you
tell a little bit, I'm surelisteners would love to know
where, where your decision tobecome a film journalist has
come
Bhawana Ma'am (21:08):
from. You know, Tara, I'm so impressed that you
asked me about my paternalgrandfather and the distribution
because I've interacted with somany journalists after the book
has come out, but somehow theyseem to have missed this point.
In fact, when I got to knowabout it, I said, oh, so is it
that from where it comes to bethat the third generation gets
(21:32):
it? My paternal grandfather wasa film distributor. My father
was working in a cinema hall inthe military theater. My
maternal grandfather dealt instocks, which was spoken about
in hush whispers because stockwas not considered respectable.
(21:54):
And I had no desire to be ajournalist. I had no idol. I had
no I had no ambition at all. Ididn't even want to be a working
woman. But I just, I think,happened to be at the right
place at the right time, and Ibecame a film journalist, and
(22:16):
when the first time, it wasbecause I was writing in
college, and somebody said that,you know, there is a film
magazine coming out, why don'tyou meet this guy? And I said,
okay, and he offered me a salaryof 100 rupees. And I said to
myself, What am I going to dowith so much money? And then
after that, there was an ad inthe paper which said that wanted
college girls with a flair forwriting, and I went for a walk
(22:38):
in interview, and they said,Okay, we are giving you 500
rupees salary. And I said, whatis the job about? And they said,
it's a film journalist. And Ishrugged my shoulders and I
said, I don't want to be a filmjournalist. I was very superior.
I shrugged my shoulders and cameaway. And he hollered at me, and
he said, How dare you waste ourtime? And after that, they made
(22:59):
me go through a small test also.
So they started calling, and wehad a MTNL phone at home like
everybody else, and my mothersaid, Who is this stranger who's
calling you? And I said thatthey're coming out with a
magazine, and they think that Ihave the making of a journalist,
and he's giving me a salary of500 rupees. So my mother said,
You don't know anything, andthis guy is offering you 500
(23:22):
rupees. He is a pucker fraud. SoI told those guys that I'm not
going to do it. So he said, Askyour mother. What is the
problem? So my mother said youwill not meet any of these
deadly villains. You will not gofor any evening interviews. You
will never attend a singleparty. You will not go out of
town. So I told him, 1234, andhe said, Okay. So my said, my
(23:44):
mother said, now he's 100%fraud, because why would he
agree to so many conditions toyou then I don't know what
happened. I think my parentsjust felt that. Let her just do
it. She doesn't know anything.
We know it, and within fewmonths, they will discover and
her shock will be over. And theproblem with the film fraternity
(24:09):
or show businesses, you canstruggle all your life. If you
don't have it in you, the door,window ventilator will not open
for you. And if you have it inyou, you can try as hard as you
want to leave this place, youjust are not able to get out of
it. So I thought I will leave itin few months, then a few years,
(24:30):
then a decade, and I'm doing itfor 50 years.
Tara Khandelwal (24:34):
Wow, such a great story. I just love that.
And it happened. And then, youknow, that was your calling that
was sort of, you know what yousaid, that if you have it in
you, then you won't leave it,and you've stuck by it, and
you're one of the most wellknown names in this space, in
India today. And
Bhawana Ma'am (24:51):
I think my calling was that my mother
decided to have me in hermenopause, which is a miracle.
And. Conceive a baby, because Iwas meant to hand hold her and
see through the parents in theirsunset years. And after that, I
think I got two decades to livemy life, which I was denied in
(25:18):
my youth. And after that, Ithink my calling was to write
this book, which was sodifficult, so difficult. You
know, I've not told this toanybody. I'm telling you when
the book was ready and I hadgiven it to my agent and the
publisher had accepted it, I washaunted by a recurrent dream
(25:38):
that I am eight and a halfmonths pregnant and
uncomfortable in my bed, unableto shift, and I got very scared
with the dream, because I didn'twant to be pregnant at my age.
And then I googled that, whatdoes the dream signify? And it
said, you have to deliver a veryexpensive gravitas project and
(26:02):
you are uncomfortable. Sowriting about a Hema Marani and
an Amitabh Bachchan and maybe apassage or a chapter which they
are dissatisfied with is onething, and putting your family
on paper, I think, was anawesome responsibility.
Tara Khandelwal (26:21):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, this is something thatis so personal to you. This is,
these are your relationships.
This is your life. And it's,it's a huge thing that you've
put forward, and I think you'vedone it with a lot of
sensitivity, and even the, youknow, the small interactions,
like when you speak, you know,for example, as in your book,
you write about your mother'sinteractions with the actors,
(26:42):
you know. And I really like thestory when, you know, one time
Shabana Azmi had come and yourmother kind of disapproved the
cotton saree, antiques, jewelryshe was wearing, you know. So
these kind of stories I told,you know, they're funny, they're
sensitive, and they show thatrelationship dynamic. So
actually, I wanted to ask, youknow, what was your sort of
favorite anecdote that you haveput in this book, and what do
(27:06):
you think is the mostchallenging thing that you've
written in this book?
Bhawana Ma'am (27:10):
I think the most challenging was my father coming
back because I was sooverwhelmed and I felt very bad
that I was not there. Also whenthey are boarding the streamer,
when he's trying to board thestreamer and there's nobody with
him, I just felt that they wereextraordinary people who endured
(27:32):
so much struggle and nevercomplained. My delicious moments
were when my mother gets up inthe morning after watching
diamonds are forever, and says,Can I speak to Amida Bucha and
tell him what kind of films tomake? Or Shana, she may go,
Shahrukh Khan. Shahrukh Khan,she will. I'll say, okay, here
is she'll put on her specs. Thenshe will walk towards the TV,
(27:54):
and I'll say, Oh, he's gone. Andshe'd say, Why is he jumping
around? Why can't he comb hishair and all that, but she was
delicious as a personality, andshe had her own equations with
my actor friends, and theyvisited her frequently, and she
(28:15):
truly believed that they wereher personal interactions, which
had nothing to do with me, andshe had great insights into
everybody like you know thatKiran kheir is a bigger star
than Anupam kheir, and she wouldwhen the Diwali mithais would
come home. So she will alwayswant to check out Anil Kapoor's
(28:37):
Mitai. And she will say thatSunita Kapoor is a very
responsible spouse and knows tokeep the stature of her husband
and her gift trapping isperfect. You know, she would
never wait for me. She wouldopen out whatever she wanted
when the first time, Amida Buchalifted the ban on the media and
(29:00):
there were no mobile phones atthat time. So he called, and she
was hard of hearing, and sheused a machine, and she he said,
K Bhavna Ji, sebad kar satkawa.
And she said, she's at work andwhatever. And he said, Okay,
please tell her that I hadcalled. And she came back and
she told me, and I thought thatshe was fantasizing, because he
was not talking to the media.
(29:21):
Why would he ring me up? So Ididn't call back. And then he
called again, and she he saidthat apne Bataan. So she said,
Mary Beth busy. So she said,aapka number, they go very busy.
Film circle number, you know,her importance in her head of
her daughter is bigger than thesuperstar. So she she was
(29:46):
completely original. You cannotfind another model like her. And
I think it came from the factthat how she was brought up in
abundance at her maiden home andwith so much. Love and caring by
her spouse, that she never wasdeprived of anything. She never
(30:08):
looked at having six children inKarachi as a responsibility or
something that was bogging herdown. The home was like a
regiment. There weredisciplines, rules. The older
siblings trained the middle one,the middle one pre trained the
younger ones, and you just grewup carrying bundles of
discipline, values, culture,family, everything together.
Tara Khandelwal (30:33):
Sounds like quite an amazing lady, and I
feel even she should have been afilm journalist or the stories,
it reminded me of a scene in theshow Masaba. Masaba, where
Masaba is investor, calls ourhome and Masaba is mother, Nina
Gupta Ji, answers the phone andshe said, No, my daughter is
(30:54):
very busy. She cannot come tothe phone. That's so funny. It
is such a thing that parents do.
You know where you know you'rethe obviously, for them, the
child is the most importantthing, and the perspective is
lost sometimes, and it's it's sofunny. I think everybody
Bhawana Ma'am (31:12):
has a story. I saw her discussing some cinema
trivia with her sister, and Isaid, you know, this is a
responsible talk. You cannot betalking like this. So she said,
No, I have a responsibility. Iam the mother of a film scribe,
and people expect me to givethem information. I have to, I
said, Ma, I don't write gossip.
I don't discuss them loosely.
(31:36):
She's saying I'm not characterassassinating him.
Tara Khandelwal (31:39):
I love it and coming back to, you know,
treating the subject matter withsensitivity, right? Because
that's something that I'minterested in as well. Because
we also have people write lifestories and biographies. We have
an imprinted power where wewhere we do this, and we, you
know, try and capture thesestories that otherwise would
have been lost. And you've hadsuch an illustrious career,
(32:00):
you've written these biographiesof these superstars. So I wanted
to know, you know, for somebodywho's writing biographies, what
are some of the tips that youwould give,
Bhawana Ma'am (32:12):
I think a biography is as reflective of
the biographer, and what kind ofa biography I write reflects my
character. And I'm somebody whohas never delved into
sensational journalism, and I'mnot interested in personal,
intimate details of theirromances or private lives which
(32:35):
they don't want to share. But,you know, I'm now at a stage
Tara where biographies don'tinterest me at all. I think it's
a lot of hard work getting yourfacts together, and it is not as
creative, because you either doit chronologically in a linear
or you do it in a different way.
I feel, for me, the challenge isgoing to be that after favel
(32:58):
Karachi, what
Tara Khandelwal (33:01):
no definitely, as somebody in the media and
content you know today's world,understand how you know
difficult the space is and howit's evolving. You know, you
said at the very beginning ofthe book that you had never
thought about how your family'sdisplacement must have affected
you until your counselor friendasked you what your biggest fear
is, and you said, youunknowingly said, not having a
(33:24):
roof over my head. And untilthen, you hadn't processed that
fear of not having that right.
So I wanted to know, how hasthis book helped you come to
terms with that fear, or was itcathartic? Or is that fear
still?
Bhawana Ma'am (33:36):
Yeah, I feel liberated. I now understand my
EQ, I now understand, you know,when you are a new journalist, a
lot of accusations or epithetsare hurled at you, which you
don't know whether they arepositive or negative, and one of
(33:56):
them was that Bhavna is toosensitive. And now I understand
that I am what I am, because I'mthe recipient of my parents
anxiety, and I'm not going to beapologetic about it. That is my
decoration in how I write, how Ithink, and I am suddenly feeling
(34:20):
so much more at peace. You know,so many times with my family, if
we are driving in a car late atnight, and I'm looking always at
certain places, and my sisterone day asked me, What are you
looking for? So I said, No, I'mthinking that if I have to sleep
on the road someday, whichcorner should I be booking for
(34:40):
myself. And she said, Are youmad? Are you out of your head?
But I was looking all the timefor a place in the when I come
into my lane, in my fancybuilding. And then when I told
this to that counselor friend,I'm always looking for a place,
she did not mock me. She did notlaugh at me. She didn't think it
(35:03):
was a joke, and she said, That'show deep the displacement is.
And I suddenly felt I was givena parachute. I understood and
accepted myself, and now I havesince then, stopped looking for
a place or a roof. Because Ihave a roof. There are no
(35:24):
deprivations.
Tara Khandelwal (35:26):
I think sometimes just naming the thing
that we are feeling all the timeunconsciously helps us so much
in processing, and then thatgoes away. And I definitely
think that, you know, writingpersonal essays, writing
memoirs, and that's why I lovethat process so much. Really
helps us sort things out in ourown head, because we are making
this narrative, and it iscathartic, definitely. And I've
(35:50):
felt that as well. But nowcoming to something a little
lighter, since you've interactedwith so many actors, and you
know, everybody must be socurious, because these are the
superstars that everybody sortof wants to know. So I also have
to ask, What has been yourfavorite interaction with an
actor so far?
Bhawana Ma'am (36:10):
There is no one favorite interaction, I think,
depending on the phase I wasgoing through on my own path of
career, who I interacted with,how it went, they have all been
very instrumental in shaping mypersona, in understanding life,
(36:35):
in understanding show business,in understanding superstars, I
think they are as human as youand me, and extremely sensitive
and very good judges of people.
If you are not a good judge of aperson, you cannot be a good
actor. And I respect theirperspective, even if it is not
(36:59):
in my favor. I've had not a verygood equation to start with
Shara Khan or to start with withRanveer Singh, but they get
resolved over a period of time,and today, Suhana is an upcoming
Star, and you realize thatyou've traveled a long journey.
(37:21):
There are so many moments frozenin my heart where nobody told me
that I'm not supposed to writeit, or don't write this. This is
off record. You know itintuitively. It's something that
happens to your own sibling. Youdon't talk about it, even to
your best friend. So these areprivate moments that happen in
(37:42):
your workspace, and they helpyou grow up with bigger dynamics
and more special than maybethose who didn't pause and
ponder and absorbed. I find you,Tara, in your interaction with
(38:03):
me so special and remarkable, wehave a tendency to dismiss the
youth and think that they arenot doing their homework or
research before talking to theolder people, but just at the
start, when technology wasirritating me and you said, if
(38:25):
you're not up to it, we can doit another time that speaks of
such maturity and rising aboveyour own duty hour and
commitment to the organizationand the questions you ask and
the way you go about it, notfollowing a specific
questionnaire, allowing me tofollow my pastures, and picking
(38:49):
up the flowers from there andfeeding the fragrance. So it's
so special. You are so special.
Your parents should feel verygood.
Tara Khandelwal (39:01):
Thank you so much. That really means a lot to
me. Thank you so much. I justhave a few more questions for
you, the very short answerquestions, mostly about
recommendations and things likethat, because those are things
that our listeners love to know.
So one book, apart from yourown, about Indian cinema that
you've read and loved.
Bhawana Ma'am (39:23):
I've loved so many cinema books, but to pick
up one, I don't know if it's aright one, but boski Meghna
Gulzar wrote on her fatherbecause she became Megna Gulzar.
It was brought up by Rupa, andit was a personal portrait of a
(39:43):
father who is also a poet and apainter. And it was so
wonderful. Check that out. Andit was not about boasting. Then
there was another one, I thinkabout Sunil that i. Nargis I
liked very much. And I'm lookingat my bookshelf, I thought the
(40:07):
Parveen Babi book that KarishmaUpadhyaya, I think her author's
name is. When the book came tome, I said, I know everything
about Parveen Babi. I don't needto read this book. I read it. So
there are many, many books thatI like many books I don't like
in a non film book, I would saythe palace of allusions.
Tara Khandelwal (40:29):
I love that book too,
Bhawana Ma'am (40:31):
yeah, because I'm also a Krishna devotee. Okay,
Tara Khandelwal (40:35):
your first film that you fell in love with that
made you fall in love withmovies.
Bhawana Ma'am (40:40):
I think Paki, sir, it's still my favorite.
It's lyrical in every frame, andMeena Kumaris, pain just pierces
my heart.
Tara Khandelwal (40:51):
I will watch that. I don't I have not seen
it, but definitely will now. Andone book about partition, apart
from your own that you've readand loved, yeah,
Bhawana Ma'am (41:01):
about partition, Garam haba. And I would also
like to add in this one star,who I've been watching since
childhood. The first time I sawKareena Kapoor, she was, I
think, not even two, three yearsold. She was on the lap of a
mother. The year was 1983 youcan check her year when she was
(41:24):
born, and it was the shooting ofBucha Samandar, Mena, kartu,
Marvin ho gaya, uski, bada. Isaw Kareena Kapoor when she was
10 years old, and she wasaccompanying me for a photo
shoot of Karishma Kapoor. Andshe looked gorgeous, black and
black eyes, fair skin. And shesaid, May film is a kitchen,
(41:47):
okay. Then I saw her when shewas signed for refugee,
gorgeous. And after that, I sawher at many movies became I was
there for her wedding in Delhi.
Then the two babies came, and Irecently saw her. Imagine you've
seen a child, literally a fatlump child, Babita slap. Babita
(42:10):
was exhausted of holding thisvery chubby baby, and today she
is a mother of two chubbybabies, and not just a mother.
She's working promoting brands,doing great work. Is a
fashionista.
Tara Khandelwal (42:32):
That's really cool, that she has that so much
self conviction from such aearly age. I think having that
self assurance really matters inlife, because if you don't
believe in yourself, who's goingto believe in you? And my last
question for you is a movie thatyou and your mother loved
watching together.
Bhawana Ma'am (42:51):
We never watched a film together that she liked
or something. We must have gonefor many movies because that was
the latest movie of the week,but a movie that she absolutely
loved, and which I make it apoint to watch again and again,
is navra V Shanta ramsva, as weyou know, my mother had this
(43:12):
very large scale dreams, notlike Garib types theater like my
father liked. I didn't get acrush on Raj Kapoor because all
the building women, they went tosee movies together, and it used
to cost 25 Paisa, which was alsovery tough for them.
Tara Khandelwal (43:29):
Yeah, my grandmom used to love watching
konmariga karupathi. I and shenever admitted it, but I knew
that she had a crush on thisexpression of the face. So it's
sweet. Thank you so much forthis interview. I think memoirs
(43:50):
really sort of teach us aboutourselves. I really love knowing
more about you and your familyand the work that you've done.
So really appreciate your time.
Thank
Bhawana Ma'am (43:59):
you. Bless you and congratulations for doing a
great journey.
Tara Khandelwal (44:04):
Thank you so much. Hope you enjoyed this
episode of Books and Beyond
Michelle D'costa (44:09):
with bound.
This podcast is created bybound, a company that helps you
grow through story. Find us atbound India on all social media
platforms. Tune
Tara Khandelwal (44:19):
in every Wednesday as we peek into the
lives and minds of somebrilliant authors from India and
South Asia, you.
Foreign Welcome to Books and Beyond. With bound
I'm Tara Khandelwal and I'mMichelle d'cota, in this
podcast, we talk to India'sfinest
Michelle D'costa (00:10):
authors and uncover the stories behind the
best written book
Tara Khandelwal (00:15):
and dissect how these books shape our lives and
worldviews today.
Michelle D'costa (00:20):
So let's dive in.
Tara Khandelwal (00:22):
Hi everyone.
Welcome back to Books andBeyond. So if you are a regular
listener, you know how much Ilove reading stories about the
partition, and we have spoken toauthors lecture of energy and
Acharya Malhotra on the podcast,and so many authors who have
written on the partition. Buttoday I am super excited because
we have Bhavna Somaya ma'am, andshe's a film journalist, and she
has written extensively on Hindicinema and biographies of actors
(00:45):
like Amitabh Bachchan and HemaMalini. And she has taken a very
different take on the partitionwith her book farewell Karachi,
which is a lovely memoir whereshe looks inwards and she writes
about five generations of herown family, so it's a lovely
family story, and she writesabout the journey they went
through as they uprooted theentire lives and moved from
(01:08):
Karachi to Bombay. Now, my greatgrandfather had also uprooted
his entire life and moved fromKarachi to Bombay as well. And I
was always so curious about, youknow, his life, but he's
obviously no more, and I neverhad access to it, so I was all
the more interested in readingthis book. So thank you, Bhavna,
ma'am, and welcome to thepodcast.
Bhawana Ma'am (01:30):
Thank you for inviting me, and I'm very
surprised that somebody as youngas you also has a baggage of the
partition, and even if yourgrandfather is no more, I'm sure
you found him somewhere lurkingin my book and the voice you
found I
Tara Khandelwal (01:49):
did. I did.
That's That's why I enjoyed itso much, you know. And I just
wish that I the way you hadaccess to your family stories. I
just wish I had access, becauseI can't imagine building life
from scratch. So the first thingI want to ask you is about
Karachi itself, because you saythat Karachi is like a lot lost
sibling to, you know. And Ireally like that analogy because
you said it's always there everydinner table conversation, and
(02:12):
your parents would bring it upall the time, and obviously, you
know, you've never been able togo so can you tell me what it
was like to write about thiscity, and why have you decided?
Okay, you know, I will writethis memoir right now see
Bhawana Ma'am (02:29):
when I was your age, and when they spoke about
partition, and they spoke aboutmigration and they spoke about
displacement. I don't think wetake it that seriously. We just
think that it's something thathappened to them, and we move on
with our lives and our careers.
It's as you get older and youunderstand things and you see
(02:50):
the larger picture, that thingsstart taking shape in your head.
But I think that because Karachiwas always in the conversation
and omnipresent at our home, andit was a very large family, I
was always curious, and maybethat's why I became a writer. So
I was always asking manyquestions, but I was not making
(03:11):
any notes. There was no notes.
There was no ambition to becomea journalist or to become a
writer. When I grew up, it wasjust inquisitiveness, curiosity,
asking, and I have a very goodmemory, so it's all there in my
head and heart. I didn't setabout to write a book on the
(03:33):
city called Karachi. I just setabout to pay tribute to my
parents, and wrote this book.
And then while we were jugglingwith what title to call it,
instead of making it a personaltitle, I felt that it should be
a more generic title, so morereaders are drawn to it, and
that is how I said farewellKarachi, because now in my head,
(03:56):
I have resigned to the fact thatI will never see the city,
because the situations aregetting worse and I'm getting
older, so maybe I'll never gothere. And it was never meant to
be. That's why, in spite ofwriting so many books, I was
never invited for Karachi LitFest. I was never invited to
(04:17):
Lahore Film Festival. It justnever happened. And actually, I
started writing the book onlyabout a year and a half ago. I
hesitated and I hesitated and Ihesitated of starting to punch
the words on my keyboard. I wasin my head and heart drawing
pictures. Then I said it's nowor never, because I'm getting
(04:43):
older. And then I rememberedYash Chopra in an interview,
said to me that when I wanted tomake veer Zara and I was frailer
and older, my son said to methat, Papa, you don't need to go
to Karachi Allahu. Everything isavailable on the internet. And
I'll show it to you. So I said,if ya Shukra can make Vir Zara
without going to the soil. Ikept fantasizing that I need to
(05:06):
breathe the soil. I need to seethe city in my own way and feel
the textures. I realized that Idon't need to do that. In fact,
I think now the distance isbetter because it keeps my
objectivity, and which is alsothe reason this is not a
documentation of the family interms of memories. I am not
(05:31):
speaking to every member of thefamily and asking them, What are
your memories of thegrandfather, or what are your
memories of the father. It's mymemories and where I am failing
in the jigsaw puzzle fallinginto place. For example, on that
day when the riots broke out in47 then my blood sister, the
(05:51):
oldest one, is no more, so Icalled up my Mercy's daughter,
my cousin, and I asked her torecord because she's almost the
same age, so it's when I'mstumbling, I'm asking otherwise,
it's my memoir
Tara Khandelwal (06:09):
understood. And that's very interesting, because
I was going to ask you aboutyour research process, you know,
because you and now I know thatyou said that you have a good
memory, and that shows
Bhawana Ma'am (06:20):
the research was there, yeah, my oldest sister
gave me a list of our ancestorsand how they worked and where.
So that gave me a kind ofpremise. And then my sister in
Berlin, who I repeatedly saidthat you write down for me the
description of our Karachiancestral home and our Bucha
(06:45):
home the catch. And she said,I'll give it to you. I'll give
it to you. And she never did.
And years rolled into decades.
And then she expired, and thenmy brother in law expired, and
then my nephew was clearing thehouse. And, you know, giving
things away in abroad, it islike one day you come, the
children come from differentcities, and they just clear it.
(07:06):
They give it away, everythingand donation. And beneath her
mattress, she found exercisesheets where she has written the
description of the two houses.
And I was waiting, I think, forthat. Then, of course, it is the
writer's skill about where areyou going to put it, which
chapter and how and what, whohas told me. So, you know, it
(07:27):
was, I was, it was a gamble. Ididn't have any chronological
order. See, when you're doing abook on Bachan, I know
satyendusani is the beginning. Iknow Alaba this the beginning,
and I know that Kalinga is theend at the moment, same with
him, Malani, but I didn't knowanything. I was just, I think
(07:49):
the universe wanted to help me.
So it fell into together, yeah,and Javed Saab. That is Javed
actor. He knows my family, so hekept saying, liquid CO fiction,
liquor, her chapter, a kick.
Sebring, good. Dedicate Karu topage up we Hoge apne fiction,
leaky head to beneca, because Isaid that I felt that people
(08:14):
would be addicted to the storyor the narrative if they know
it's my real story. Byfictionalizing it, I'm
trivializing it. And I said Ididn't do it the way you asked
me to do it. I did it the way itcame to me. A writer cannot go
by any footnotes of anybody. Icannot look back. I cannot ask
(08:36):
somebody to help me. I'm on thedelivery table, and I'm
delivering a child. How thelabor pangs I go through,
whether it's going to be asmooth delivery or the baby, is
going to trouble me, is my fate.
Tara Khandelwal (08:52):
I love that story about how I found the
sketches, and that was reallywonderful. And I think, yes, the
universe probably did conspire.
You know, these are things thatsometimes just happen to us. And
you said the book is one and ahalf years that it took you one
and a half years, but I thinkit's so many more years in the
making when that it finally cametogether in one and a half
years. And you also said that,you know, you could not travel
(09:14):
to Karachi, but you could traveland you travel to Kutch, and you
travel to these other placeswhere your family had these
routes. So could you tell me alittle bit more about that?
Bhawana Ma'am (09:23):
So I went to Kutch and saw the historical
places like the mandavi port,the Dharamshala, where they took
one night stay before moving toBucha. It all looked so faded
and pale, and I took a verybrief tour to Kalyan, where the
(09:49):
refuge camp was there. Therefugee camp doesn't exist
anymore. But I saw the colony,poor Andre colony, and then I
went to Mulu. Moon where I wasborn. And you know, it's so
strange, because my memory ofmulloon is I was there only for
three and a half years. Theytook me away from there, and
(10:11):
when I was four years old, Istarted my school at matuga,
sad, but I remember me crawlingin the kitchen when my mother
was cooking or doing herdomestic chores, and she had one
toy for me. You know of twowrestlers, wrestling, you know
where you're pulling one stick.
I don't know why my motherthought that her eighth girl
child should be given towrestlers, but that is somebody
(10:35):
must have given her that toy,and she must have given it to me
at that time, that space lookedso big because I was a child,
and now, when I visited thatplace, that whole building has
turned into a commercialcomplex. And I told the
Watchman, is there anybody whois still living here? And he
(10:55):
said, key sub bargain. Mother ekfamily Hai, Mother wo aapko
under cu aninge. So I said,consi Manzil peh, let me try. So
I went to her, and I said that Ionce lived here, and she
couldn't believe me. So I said,My parents lived here. I said,
Can I come in? And reluctantly,she agreed, because nobody was
(11:20):
at home, and we were sitting inthat kitchen where I remember
myself crawling, and the kitchenlooks so small. And I said, what
has happened? Has my visionchange? Am I now a big adult,
grown up, and, you know, mymother used to have a homemade
swing on the door with a sari,put on it like a saddle, and
(11:46):
they would put me on it, and Iit faced the station road. And
whole day I used to sit there,and whoever the adult was
passing by would just pat me sothat the swing was on. And I
feel that my observations and mypower of absorption started
somewhere there, because I waswholly facing the street and
(12:08):
listening to adult sounds andwatching the vendors, the
hawkers, the people who werebuying veggies, passers by, what
they were, what they the bodylanguage. I think all that
Tara Khandelwal (12:26):
you're a fabulous storyteller. Can I can
just imagine myself then whatyou said about visiting places
of your childhood. My grandpaused to take us to this beach
hotel when we were kids. And Iremember it, you know, to be
this very grand, huge kind ofproperty, and I remember us
swimming in the pool, and Irecently went back to see it,
and it was so small and it wasso unassuming, and it was not
(12:49):
grand. And I mean, it's so funnyhow our memories can also
distort depending on sort of theage we're at and where we're at,
and the emotional resonance thatwe attach to these things. So I
think also you've written thatin the book way, and I really
resonated with that as well. Youknow,
Bhawana Ma'am (13:07):
Tara, it is about as you rise in life and status.
So I only visit the best homesbecause I'm meeting people who
are the dream merchants and whomade it very big in life. But
the only constants in my lifeare the siblings, the friends
and the relatives and theirhomes remain almost unchanged,
(13:30):
and it doesn't make a differenceto the equation of the
relationship or to my vision of
Tara Khandelwal (13:36):
them. Oh, absolutely, those relationships
are the ones that ground you.
And coming back, you know thestories about partition. You
know, I love stories aboutpartition. I read a lot, watch a
lot of movies, and actually didmy thesis on partition when I
was in college as well. Sothat's why I was very excited to
do this. But I wanted to askyou, since you're a film critic,
you know, there's so many moviescoming out around this topic. So
(13:58):
how does it feel now, sort of,as a film critic, to watch all
these movies and this contentthat's coming out. Do they
resonate with you, or do youtend to detach
Bhawana Ma'am (14:10):
from them? So many films on partition one has
seen, and they are differentprojections of the director, but
it was always when you saw themor you read books on them. It
was something that happened tosomebody else. But it is when
I'm putting that incident wheremy cousin talks to me about how
the house was invaded and howher MLA Doctor father said, shut
(14:36):
the gates, shut the door, shuteverything, and there were only
four women of different agegroup in the house, and my heart
goes out for my aunt, who hasthe acumen that she cannot help
her mother in law and sister inlaw, but she has to save her
young daughter and how she locksherself up in the store room.
(15:00):
And that anguish, you know,because a child is screaming and
she's covering her mouth, willstay with me forever. It's
chilling and and when the gatesopen and when the men come, the
entire house, the vehicles,everything is in flames. But for
me, the saddest moment in thebook is one when my mother has a
(15:21):
miscarriage and she endures iton her own because she's so
sensitive to her partner, whoshould not be troubled after two
jobs a day and will only wakehim up when it's time to go to
the hospital. I think that kindof sensitivity is seldom showed
in today's marriages, it's allabout yourself and immediate
(15:44):
sharing, which is sometimeswrong, because you need to
process things. And when myfather is lost and has not come
back, and the family is waitingin the Kutch house, and when he
comes looking like a scavengerand they cannot recognize him, I
have wept every single
Tara Khandelwal (16:01):
time. Oh, I can only imagine. I mean, it was a
very emotional journey. Youknow, reading the book as a
reader, obviously as well,right? Because there's so many
roller coasters, and this isreality. So they say truth is
sometimes stranger than fiction.
And I think, you know, this bookreally sometimes exemplifies it.
And coming to sort of writingmemoirs, and, you know,
(16:21):
remembering family members.
Actually also wrote a book aboutmy grandfather, because he was a
very, you know, well knownarchitect that sort of made it
from nothing. And he, I really,and he was very vivacious
person, and all these storiesthat he had, so I really wanted
to chronicle it was a veryspecial experience for me, so I
(16:43):
can only imagine what it musthave been like for you to sort
of speak about your family insuch an in depth way. And
there's so many anecdotes asyou've been telling me that come
in to the story. So out of thefamily members that have read
this book, I'd love to knowabout you know, their reactions,
and we already mentioned a bitof their contributions
Bhawana Ma'am (17:04):
to this book, the younger generation for whom I
have actually written it so thatit's documented for them, have
all ordered the book becauseit's so easy to order on Amazon
now, but I don't think they haveall read it as yet, because they
are All in high flying jobs, andthen they are young parents and
juggling time to family and workand exercise routines and all
(17:30):
that, travel plans. Most of thesiblings are no more, but the
siblings, my friends and evenstrangers whom I don't know, who
have read the book and who gotmy number. Everybody has phoned
me crying on the phone, andeverybody has said that they
(17:50):
have wept. And the last one whocalled me, she couldn't stop
sobbing, and she's not even afriend of mine, and I said, Why
are you crying? Are you feelingbad for me or what is it? So she
said, I'm crying for the lossthat how a robust family
eventually shrinks like you saidthat while other families are
(18:14):
rapidly increasing, my familywas shrinking. But that's part
of life. A robust tree alsowithers away the leaves and a
new tree comes up. That's life.
Yeah,
Tara Khandelwal (18:27):
I think, you know, in India, obviously,
family is so important. Soanyone reading this, you know,
and even my grandparents, theyhad so many siblings, and it was
such a large family. My Nani hasso many siblings. My daddy has,
I think I don't even know howmany siblings they have. And my
mom and dad each have twosiblings each. And now, when it
(18:50):
comes to my generation and thenext generation after me, people
are not even having children, ormaybe it's just one child. And I
always think, you know, becauseI grew up in such a large
extended family, and that hasgiven me so much resilience in
life that what is going tohappen now when those families
become smaller and smaller,
Bhawana Ma'am (19:09):
they are all going to be emotionally
impoverished. It cannotunderstand the importance of a
strong foundation of love,support, trust, transparency,
aware of your strengths,weaknesses, your limitations,
(19:33):
and as it is, equations changewhen your parents are no more
with each Other. So the I havean insight even about, you know,
the present generation of stars,I would say, from the generation
of Deepika, Barukh and allbecause till Rani, Mukherjee,
Aishwarya Rai still, they wereinteracting with the media. What
(19:56):
is happening with the presentgeneration is that they are.
Controlled by several managersagencies. There is a finance
manager, there is a mediamanager, there is a brand
manager. They are isolated,whereas in our time, when in the
(20:16):
late 70s, I started, I mean,imagine I've interacted with
Rekha in the 70s and the 80s andthe 90s, in the 2000 2010 2020
we were their confidants,because otherwise, where are
they going to have friends? Theynever went to college,
Tara Khandelwal (20:32):
absolutely. And actually, I wanted to ask you
about that part of your life,also, because it was very
interesting to see the constantpresence of movies and interest
in the film industry throughoutyour family. So you had spoken
about your grandfather's filmdistribution business, and now
your relatives were evenscandalized that he was
attending all these filmparties, because, you know,
(20:52):
nobody in your community hadbeen involved in that industry.
So, you know, I would, I reallywant to know, you know, where
did your interest in the filmindustry come from? And can you
tell a little bit, I'm surelisteners would love to know
where, where your decision tobecome a film journalist has
come
Bhawana Ma'am (21:08):
from. You know, Tara, I'm so impressed that you
asked me about my paternalgrandfather and the distribution
because I've interacted with somany journalists after the book
has come out, but somehow theyseem to have missed this point.
In fact, when I got to knowabout it, I said, oh, so is it
that from where it comes to bethat the third generation gets
(21:32):
it? My paternal grandfather wasa film distributor. My father
was working in a cinema hall inthe military theater. My
maternal grandfather dealt instocks, which was spoken about
in hush whispers because stockwas not considered respectable.
(21:54):
And I had no desire to be ajournalist. I had no idol. I had
no I had no ambition at all. Ididn't even want to be a working
woman. But I just, I think,happened to be at the right
place at the right time, and Ibecame a film journalist, and
(22:16):
when the first time, it wasbecause I was writing in
college, and somebody said that,you know, there is a film
magazine coming out, why don'tyou meet this guy? And I said,
okay, and he offered me a salaryof 100 rupees. And I said to
myself, What am I going to dowith so much money? And then
after that, there was an ad inthe paper which said that wanted
college girls with a flair forwriting, and I went for a walk
(22:38):
in interview, and they said,Okay, we are giving you 500
rupees salary. And I said, whatis the job about? And they said,
it's a film journalist. And Ishrugged my shoulders and I
said, I don't want to be a filmjournalist. I was very superior.
I shrugged my shoulders and cameaway. And he hollered at me, and
he said, How dare you waste ourtime? And after that, they made
(22:59):
me go through a small test also.
So they started calling, and wehad a MTNL phone at home like
everybody else, and my mothersaid, Who is this stranger who's
calling you? And I said thatthey're coming out with a
magazine, and they think that Ihave the making of a journalist,
and he's giving me a salary of500 rupees. So my mother said,
You don't know anything, andthis guy is offering you 500
(23:22):
rupees. He is a pucker fraud. SoI told those guys that I'm not
going to do it. So he said, Askyour mother. What is the
problem? So my mother said youwill not meet any of these
deadly villains. You will not gofor any evening interviews. You
will never attend a singleparty. You will not go out of
town. So I told him, 1234, andhe said, Okay. So my said, my
(23:44):
mother said, now he's 100%fraud, because why would he
agree to so many conditions toyou then I don't know what
happened. I think my parentsjust felt that. Let her just do
it. She doesn't know anything.
We know it, and within fewmonths, they will discover and
her shock will be over. And theproblem with the film fraternity
(24:09):
or show businesses, you canstruggle all your life. If you
don't have it in you, the door,window ventilator will not open
for you. And if you have it inyou, you can try as hard as you
want to leave this place, youjust are not able to get out of
it. So I thought I will leave itin few months, then a few years,
(24:30):
then a decade, and I'm doing itfor 50 years.
Tara Khandelwal (24:34):
Wow, such a great story. I just love that.
And it happened. And then, youknow, that was your calling that
was sort of, you know what yousaid, that if you have it in
you, then you won't leave it,and you've stuck by it, and
you're one of the most wellknown names in this space, in
India today. And
Bhawana Ma'am (24:51):
I think my calling was that my mother
decided to have me in hermenopause, which is a miracle.
And. Conceive a baby, because Iwas meant to hand hold her and
see through the parents in theirsunset years. And after that, I
think I got two decades to livemy life, which I was denied in
(25:18):
my youth. And after that, Ithink my calling was to write
this book, which was sodifficult, so difficult. You
know, I've not told this toanybody. I'm telling you when
the book was ready and I hadgiven it to my agent and the
publisher had accepted it, I washaunted by a recurrent dream
(25:38):
that I am eight and a halfmonths pregnant and
uncomfortable in my bed, unableto shift, and I got very scared
with the dream, because I didn'twant to be pregnant at my age.
And then I googled that, whatdoes the dream signify? And it
said, you have to deliver a veryexpensive gravitas project and
(26:02):
you are uncomfortable. Sowriting about a Hema Marani and
an Amitabh Bachchan and maybe apassage or a chapter which they
are dissatisfied with is onething, and putting your family
on paper, I think, was anawesome responsibility.
Tara Khandelwal (26:21):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, this is something thatis so personal to you. This is,
these are your relationships.
This is your life. And it's,it's a huge thing that you've
put forward, and I think you'vedone it with a lot of
sensitivity, and even the, youknow, the small interactions,
like when you speak, you know,for example, as in your book,
you write about your mother'sinteractions with the actors,
(26:42):
you know. And I really like thestory when, you know, one time
Shabana Azmi had come and yourmother kind of disapproved the
cotton saree, antiques, jewelryshe was wearing, you know. So
these kind of stories I told,you know, they're funny, they're
sensitive, and they show thatrelationship dynamic. So
actually, I wanted to ask, youknow, what was your sort of
favorite anecdote that you haveput in this book, and what do
(27:06):
you think is the mostchallenging thing that you've
written in this book?
Bhawana Ma'am (27:10):
I think the most challenging was my father coming
back because I was sooverwhelmed and I felt very bad
that I was not there. Also whenthey are boarding the streamer,
when he's trying to board thestreamer and there's nobody with
him, I just felt that they wereextraordinary people who endured
(27:32):
so much struggle and nevercomplained. My delicious moments
were when my mother gets up inthe morning after watching
diamonds are forever, and says,Can I speak to Amida Bucha and
tell him what kind of films tomake? Or Shana, she may go,
Shahrukh Khan. Shahrukh Khan,she will. I'll say, okay, here
is she'll put on her specs. Thenshe will walk towards the TV,
(27:54):
and I'll say, Oh, he's gone. Andshe'd say, Why is he jumping
around? Why can't he comb hishair and all that, but she was
delicious as a personality, andshe had her own equations with
my actor friends, and theyvisited her frequently, and she
(28:15):
truly believed that they wereher personal interactions, which
had nothing to do with me, andshe had great insights into
everybody like you know thatKiran kheir is a bigger star
than Anupam kheir, and she wouldwhen the Diwali mithais would
come home. So she will alwayswant to check out Anil Kapoor's
(28:37):
Mitai. And she will say thatSunita Kapoor is a very
responsible spouse and knows tokeep the stature of her husband
and her gift trapping isperfect. You know, she would
never wait for me. She wouldopen out whatever she wanted
when the first time, Amida Buchalifted the ban on the media and
(29:00):
there were no mobile phones atthat time. So he called, and she
was hard of hearing, and sheused a machine, and she he said,
K Bhavna Ji, sebad kar satkawa.
And she said, she's at work andwhatever. And he said, Okay,
please tell her that I hadcalled. And she came back and
she told me, and I thought thatshe was fantasizing, because he
was not talking to the media.
(29:21):
Why would he ring me up? So Ididn't call back. And then he
called again, and she he saidthat apne Bataan. So she said,
Mary Beth busy. So she said,aapka number, they go very busy.
Film circle number, you know,her importance in her head of
her daughter is bigger than thesuperstar. So she she was
(29:46):
completely original. You cannotfind another model like her. And
I think it came from the factthat how she was brought up in
abundance at her maiden home andwith so much. Love and caring by
her spouse, that she never wasdeprived of anything. She never
(30:08):
looked at having six children inKarachi as a responsibility or
something that was bogging herdown. The home was like a
regiment. There weredisciplines, rules. The older
siblings trained the middle one,the middle one pre trained the
younger ones, and you just grewup carrying bundles of
discipline, values, culture,family, everything together.
Tara Khandelwal (30:33):
Sounds like quite an amazing lady, and I
feel even she should have been afilm journalist or the stories,
it reminded me of a scene in theshow Masaba. Masaba, where
Masaba is investor, calls ourhome and Masaba is mother, Nina
Gupta Ji, answers the phone andshe said, No, my daughter is
(30:54):
very busy. She cannot come tothe phone. That's so funny. It
is such a thing that parents do.
You know where you know you'rethe obviously, for them, the
child is the most importantthing, and the perspective is
lost sometimes, and it's it's sofunny. I think everybody
Bhawana Ma'am (31:12):
has a story. I saw her discussing some cinema
trivia with her sister, and Isaid, you know, this is a
responsible talk. You cannot betalking like this. So she said,
No, I have a responsibility. Iam the mother of a film scribe,
and people expect me to givethem information. I have to, I
said, Ma, I don't write gossip.
I don't discuss them loosely.
(31:36):
She's saying I'm not characterassassinating him.
Tara Khandelwal (31:39):
I love it and coming back to, you know,
treating the subject matter withsensitivity, right? Because
that's something that I'minterested in as well. Because
we also have people write lifestories and biographies. We have
an imprinted power where wewhere we do this, and we, you
know, try and capture thesestories that otherwise would
have been lost. And you've hadsuch an illustrious career,
(32:00):
you've written these biographiesof these superstars. So I wanted
to know, you know, for somebodywho's writing biographies, what
are some of the tips that youwould give,
Bhawana Ma'am (32:12):
I think a biography is as reflective of
the biographer, and what kind ofa biography I write reflects my
character. And I'm somebody whohas never delved into
sensational journalism, and I'mnot interested in personal,
intimate details of theirromances or private lives which
(32:35):
they don't want to share. But,you know, I'm now at a stage
Tara where biographies don'tinterest me at all. I think it's
a lot of hard work getting yourfacts together, and it is not as
creative, because you either doit chronologically in a linear
or you do it in a different way.
I feel, for me, the challenge isgoing to be that after favel
(32:58):
Karachi, what
Tara Khandelwal (33:01):
no definitely, as somebody in the media and
content you know today's world,understand how you know
difficult the space is and howit's evolving. You know, you
said at the very beginning ofthe book that you had never
thought about how your family'sdisplacement must have affected
you until your counselor friendasked you what your biggest fear
is, and you said, youunknowingly said, not having a
(33:24):
roof over my head. And untilthen, you hadn't processed that
fear of not having that right.
So I wanted to know, how hasthis book helped you come to
terms with that fear, or was itcathartic? Or is that fear
still?
Bhawana Ma'am (33:36):
Yeah, I feel liberated. I now understand my
EQ, I now understand, you know,when you are a new journalist, a
lot of accusations or epithetsare hurled at you, which you
don't know whether they arepositive or negative, and one of
(33:56):
them was that Bhavna is toosensitive. And now I understand
that I am what I am, because I'mthe recipient of my parents
anxiety, and I'm not going to beapologetic about it. That is my
decoration in how I write, how Ithink, and I am suddenly feeling
(34:20):
so much more at peace. You know,so many times with my family, if
we are driving in a car late atnight, and I'm looking always at
certain places, and my sisterone day asked me, What are you
looking for? So I said, No, I'mthinking that if I have to sleep
on the road someday, whichcorner should I be booking for
(34:40):
myself. And she said, Are youmad? Are you out of your head?
But I was looking all the timefor a place in the when I come
into my lane, in my fancybuilding. And then when I told
this to that counselor friend,I'm always looking for a place,
she did not mock me. She did notlaugh at me. She didn't think it
(35:03):
was a joke, and she said, That'show deep the displacement is.
And I suddenly felt I was givena parachute. I understood and
accepted myself, and now I havesince then, stopped looking for
a place or a roof. Because Ihave a roof. There are no
(35:24):
deprivations.
Tara Khandelwal (35:26):
I think sometimes just naming the thing
that we are feeling all the timeunconsciously helps us so much
in processing, and then thatgoes away. And I definitely
think that, you know, writingpersonal essays, writing
memoirs, and that's why I lovethat process so much. Really
helps us sort things out in ourown head, because we are making
this narrative, and it iscathartic, definitely. And I've
(35:50):
felt that as well. But nowcoming to something a little
lighter, since you've interactedwith so many actors, and you
know, everybody must be socurious, because these are the
superstars that everybody sortof wants to know. So I also have
to ask, What has been yourfavorite interaction with an
actor so far?
Bhawana Ma'am (36:10):
There is no one favorite interaction, I think,
depending on the phase I wasgoing through on my own path of
career, who I interacted with,how it went, they have all been
very instrumental in shaping mypersona, in understanding life,
(36:35):
in understanding show business,in understanding superstars, I
think they are as human as youand me, and extremely sensitive
and very good judges of people.
If you are not a good judge of aperson, you cannot be a good
actor. And I respect theirperspective, even if it is not
(36:59):
in my favor. I've had not a verygood equation to start with
Shara Khan or to start with withRanveer Singh, but they get
resolved over a period of time,and today, Suhana is an upcoming
Star, and you realize thatyou've traveled a long journey.
(37:21):
There are so many moments frozenin my heart where nobody told me
that I'm not supposed to writeit, or don't write this. This is
off record. You know itintuitively. It's something that
happens to your own sibling. Youdon't talk about it, even to
your best friend. So these areprivate moments that happen in
(37:42):
your workspace, and they helpyou grow up with bigger dynamics
and more special than maybethose who didn't pause and
ponder and absorbed. I find you,Tara, in your interaction with
(38:03):
me so special and remarkable, wehave a tendency to dismiss the
youth and think that they arenot doing their homework or
research before talking to theolder people, but just at the
start, when technology wasirritating me and you said, if
(38:25):
you're not up to it, we can doit another time that speaks of
such maturity and rising aboveyour own duty hour and
commitment to the organizationand the questions you ask and
the way you go about it, notfollowing a specific
questionnaire, allowing me tofollow my pastures, and picking
(38:49):
up the flowers from there andfeeding the fragrance. So it's
so special. You are so special.
Your parents should feel verygood.
Tara Khandelwal (39:01):
Thank you so much. That really means a lot to
me. Thank you so much. I justhave a few more questions for
you, the very short answerquestions, mostly about
recommendations and things likethat, because those are things
that our listeners love to know.
So one book, apart from yourown, about Indian cinema that
you've read and loved.
Bhawana Ma'am (39:23):
I've loved so many cinema books, but to pick
up one, I don't know if it's aright one, but boski Meghna
Gulzar wrote on her fatherbecause she became Megna Gulzar.
It was brought up by Rupa, andit was a personal portrait of a
(39:43):
father who is also a poet and apainter. And it was so
wonderful. Check that out. Andit was not about boasting. Then
there was another one, I thinkabout Sunil that i. Nargis I
liked very much. And I'm lookingat my bookshelf, I thought the
(40:07):
Parveen Babi book that KarishmaUpadhyaya, I think her author's
name is. When the book came tome, I said, I know everything
about Parveen Babi. I don't needto read this book. I read it. So
there are many, many books thatI like many books I don't like
in a non film book, I would saythe palace of allusions.
Tara Khandelwal (40:29):
I love that book too,
Bhawana Ma'am (40:31):
yeah, because I'm also a Krishna devotee. Okay,
Tara Khandelwal (40:35):
your first film that you fell in love with that
made you fall in love withmovies.
Bhawana Ma'am (40:40):
I think Paki, sir, it's still my favorite.
It's lyrical in every frame, andMeena Kumaris, pain just pierces
my heart.
Tara Khandelwal (40:51):
I will watch that. I don't I have not seen
it, but definitely will now. Andone book about partition, apart
from your own that you've readand loved, yeah,
Bhawana Ma'am (41:01):
about partition, Garam haba. And I would also
like to add in this one star,who I've been watching since
childhood. The first time I sawKareena Kapoor, she was, I
think, not even two, three yearsold. She was on the lap of a
mother. The year was 1983 youcan check her year when she was
(41:24):
born, and it was the shooting ofBucha Samandar, Mena, kartu,
Marvin ho gaya, uski, bada. Isaw Kareena Kapoor when she was
10 years old, and she wasaccompanying me for a photo
shoot of Karishma Kapoor. Andshe looked gorgeous, black and
black eyes, fair skin. And shesaid, May film is a kitchen,
(41:47):
okay. Then I saw her when shewas signed for refugee,
gorgeous. And after that, I sawher at many movies became I was
there for her wedding in Delhi.
Then the two babies came, and Irecently saw her. Imagine you've
seen a child, literally a fatlump child, Babita slap. Babita
(42:10):
was exhausted of holding thisvery chubby baby, and today she
is a mother of two chubbybabies, and not just a mother.
She's working promoting brands,doing great work. Is a
fashionista.
Tara Khandelwal (42:32):
That's really cool, that she has that so much
self conviction from such aearly age. I think having that
self assurance really matters inlife, because if you don't
believe in yourself, who's goingto believe in you? And my last
question for you is a movie thatyou and your mother loved
watching together.
Bhawana Ma'am (42:51):
We never watched a film together that she liked
or something. We must have gonefor many movies because that was
the latest movie of the week,but a movie that she absolutely
loved, and which I make it apoint to watch again and again,
is navra V Shanta ramsva, as weyou know, my mother had this
(43:12):
very large scale dreams, notlike Garib types theater like my
father liked. I didn't get acrush on Raj Kapoor because all
the building women, they went tosee movies together, and it used
to cost 25 Paisa, which was alsovery tough for them.
Tara Khandelwal (43:29):
Yeah, my grandmom used to love watching
konmariga karupathi. I and shenever admitted it, but I knew
that she had a crush on thisexpression of the face. So it's
sweet. Thank you so much forthis interview. I think memoirs
(43:50):
really sort of teach us aboutourselves. I really love knowing
more about you and your familyand the work that you've done.
So really appreciate your time.
Thank
Bhawana Ma'am (43:59):
you. Bless you and congratulations for doing a
great journey.
Tara Khandelwal (44:04):
Thank you so much. Hope you enjoyed this
episode of Books and Beyond
Michelle D'costa (44:09):
with bound.
This podcast is created bybound, a company that helps you
grow through story. Find us atbound India on all social media
platforms. Tune
Tara Khandelwal (44:19):
in every Wednesday as we peek into the
lives and minds of somebrilliant authors from India and
South Asia, you.
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