Author Spotlight: C.B. Lansdell (author of Far Removed)

It's time for another spotlight, this time featuring author C.B.Lansdell as we talk about her prequel novella, The Tidelings of Dras Sayve. We also touch some topics about her debut book Far Removed, but those are spoiler-free!

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to Books Undone. I'm your host, Livia J. Eliot, and today I'm

(00:16):
pleased to bring you another author spotlight. Let me introduce you to C.B. Lansdell, authorellale. Can't wait to dive in. But before we move forward, let me tackle the

(01:00):
usual disclaimers. First, our discussion today will be focused on the prequel novelette only.
As a result, the discussion around the tidalings of Draw Safe will contain spoilers. However,
we will not spoil the first book on the duology, Far Removed, so you can listen safely if you
want to dive into her books. Second, what you will hear is our subjective thoughts on

(01:26):
this novelette. You are allowed to disagree, especially if you read it. That said, one
of the things that struck me from tidalings is the world building and how complex Nyadria,
the moon, where this is set is. You created so many societies, the clans, which have very

(01:46):
biased perceptions about each other. And so one of the main themes that I detected while
I was reading was a bias towards immigrants and also the prejudices about the other clans.
What inspired you to touch these themes? Far Removed, actually, I'll give this information
about it, I won't spoil it, but the setting. It's a very socially segregated society.

(02:10):
They have quite a strong class system. They've got the first clans to emerge and they are
very powerful and they tend to subject those newer clans that have emerged in more recent
centuries. I thought it would be a good opportunity in the novelettes just to look at Oklas'
home clan,
biased perceptions about each other. And so one of the main themes that I detected while
I was reading was a bias towards immigrants and also the prejudices about the other clans.
What inspired you to touch these themes? Far Removed, actually, I'll give this information
about it, I won't spoil it, but the setting. It's a very socially segregated society.
They have quite a strong class system. They've got the first clans to emerge and they are
very powerful and they tend to subject those newer clans that have emerged in more recent
centuries. I thought it would be a good opportunity in the novelettes just to look at from the Pramor stratum. He's from quite a privileged background and

(02:33):
was good just to see their perception of clans that are very far from them because the Dras
channel in which the novel takes place, it's very far from the other clans and they're
quite isolated. They tend to feel that they're quite proud about their own culture and their
other wealthy clans who have over the centuries colonized some of the lesser clans and they've

(02:56):
taken resources from them. This is a period where there's just this tension between people
and people feel threatened by those who are from different cultures and see things in
different ways. There was a lot to unpack actually, but I found looking at
biased perceptions about each other. And so one of the main themes that I detected while
I was reading was a bias towards immigrants and also the prejudices about the other clans.
What inspired you to touch these themes? Far Removed, actually, I'll give this information
about it, I won't spoil it, but the setting. It's a very socially segregated society.
They have quite a strong class system. They've got the first clans to emerge and they are
very powerful and they tend to subject those newer clans that have emerged in more recent
centuries. I thought it would be a good opportunity in the novelettes just to look at story,
it would be good to introduce some of the elders in his clan since he's only a tiddling

(03:18):
or a child at this point. I'd say he's the equivalent of like a 16 year old human. I
couldn't write this novella from his perspective because he has quite a limited view or understanding.
So that is why I introduced Emus who is well traveled and then gave me the opportunity
to contrast Emus's view where he's quite accepting of many different people. He's come

(03:40):
to understand the different clans operate in different ways and that they all have something
to offer. So when he encounters some of the more rigid views in Dras save from the elders
there like Valenska, he's given quite a bit of time in one of the chapters speaking to
Emus and he's overwhelmed in some ways by Valenska's views because you can see this

(04:03):
as someone who hasn't traveled well here as many assumptions that are unfounded about
Naya from other clans.
Yeah, and that's something that came across very strongly in the novella. I love that
scene that you mentioned. Emus felt frustrated, like his frustration will pop up from the
page. But in general, when I was reading the characters, their perception of immigrants

(04:28):
and of the other clans also changed depending on how much they had traveled. Those that
were often the older people that wouldn't have traveled, they had so much fear and unfounded
fear. And sometimes they will make comments that perhaps for my experience in the real
world, I was just shaking my head. You know what I'm saying? Like it's not like that.

(04:50):
Contrast that to Okla's perception. He's young. He hasn't traveled, but he was young. So he
had this whole curiosity about the world beyond. Something that struck me in there is when
do we lose that curiosity between when we are young and when we are old if we haven't
traveled enough? Emus, I think he's a perfect in-between point because he has traveled and

(05:15):
in that scene that you mentioned, he has a lot of trouble trying not to shamp to Valenska
and say a few choice words because of his unfounded fear. There is quite a lot of real
world in that conversation as well. Yes. I think many people have encountered older people,
sadly, often relatives even, where they have problematic political views and it's knowing

(05:40):
how to confront those or when to say something or how to go about it. It is a complex issue.
And yet it's something that does need to be spoken about because at the end of the day,
we're all immigrants to some extent. I think there are very few people today who haven't
moved to some degree. Even my family came from the UK in the past century. I've got

(06:00):
relatives who'd come down to South Africa. I've also got relatives who'd come from Zimbabwe
to South Africa more recently. And it is difficult sometimes at climatizing to a new culture.
Also just the sense of speaking for myself, my parents were originally from Zimbabwe.
So settling into Cape Town among families that had been here many generations, even

(06:22):
though I'm a white South African, there was still a bit of distance and people were very
comfortable because they had settled for many years and they weren't used to being on the
move or as you mentioned earlier, traveling and being exposed to new ideas. So I suppose
it's an issue that's been quite close to my heart and that's why it came out. And it comes
out even more in a far removed later when we start visiting more cosmopolitan clans

(06:47):
places where you have people from many different backgrounds or mingling as opposed to people
who are in a very established area where they've got their set ways of doing things. I decided
just looking at Okhla's being as young as he is, we see a lot of the traits in his personality
that you will continue to find in Far Removed. Emus has been very influential on him by then.

(07:11):
That of course takes place many years later. He's a youngish adult. I think you can choose
whether you want to hold on to certain values. I don't think that we have to lose that curiosity
and that interest in other people and that fearlessness that we have when we are young.
But I think that perhaps there is an inclination as you get older and perhaps more aware of

(07:35):
the responsibility of looking after yourself, then sometimes that can invite fear into people's
lives and as you'd also mentioned earlier, if there's quite a limited understanding of
the world around you, then sometimes people can attribute all kinds of fears to things
that they don't know very well and to other people and to other foreign concepts. Because

(07:57):
Valenska mentions in his discussion with Emus that immigrants bring different ideas and
then it almost thinks of them as diluting his culture and he's very proud of his culture.
He's happy with their ways of doing things, of thinking. Even though Drassev is innovative
in some ways in terms of technology, but when it comes to, I suppose, the way they conduct

(08:21):
themselves, the way they dress, their style of architecture, all these things they don't
want to have to accommodate others of doing these things.
I think there is this tendency in people as they age to start putting a lot of nostalgic
value in those kinds of things, not wanting to compromise to any degree. Really compromise

(08:42):
is a good thing. It invites freshness and the kind of changes that maybe could benefit
a society.
And also the knowledge because Emus in this point, he has already mentored, I think, four
or more people and he makes it very clear in that conversation that some of those students
he had, they went on to become professionals and very renowned professionals and they wouldn't

(09:06):
have found their professions if they hadn't traveled. Traveling for them wasn't reaching,
it's valence in that conversation and even in his attitude afterwards, it really seems
that he feels that it will dilute or even destroy one's culture. The part that baffled
me is towards the end when Stacia tells Emus that he needs to showcase that he will at

(09:31):
least, quote unquote, maintain all classes culture by showing the others that he will
feed him traditional food, that he will dress him traditionally and all of that because
and it's such a silly thing to expect that you are going to lose your culture simply
because you go to live in another country. I think at least from personal experience,
it only strengthens some bonds.

(09:52):
Yes, I'd be interested to hear more of your experiences on this subject because I think
you would have a lot to offer. But I do think that we're in a very interconnected world
today. We're able to learn so much even without traveling just about other people and it's
beautiful having that variety and being able to appreciate the strengths of different cultures

(10:16):
and to be able to eat the foods that have been prepared by other people or even if you
may not participate directly in things like religious festivals and that just being able
to kind of observe and participate and lift people up. I think it is wonderful that Emus
is about to introduce Occlus to all of these things and I could have introduced some of

(10:38):
that in the novella as well. I could have started from the point where Emus has already
acquired Occlus as a mentee. I could have had them traveling all over the moon exposing
them to different things but instead I chose to focus on the process of the two of them
coming together. I also thought it would be a good opportunity to look at this very closed
off clan and really address Save as one of many clans. There are others that also share

(11:04):
the same kind of fear and you come to meet some of the nides from those clans later.
But I also wanted it to be a case of well to kind of have this balance where Emus does
take heed of what Stasia is asking of him which is to preserve some of the Occlus'
culture, his ways of doing things and Stasia is another interesting character. She's operating

(11:25):
within this very closed off clan but at the same time she is quite open minded and as
far as I'm concerned she's someone who would have traveled when she was a bit younger and
so she compromises and she tries to find solutions that will suit all parties involved because
she also is very fond of Emus. They have quite a long standing relationship. There's trust

(11:47):
there so she trusts who Emus is going to introduce Occlus to, the kinds of things that he is
going to be exposed to. She also knows his track record and knows that he has benefited
from the other titlings and juveniles who have, or rather juveniles who have encountered
him in the past.
LW and she also understands the fears of the hares as well, the politicians that are in

(12:10):
there and that's why she always tries to negotiate that middle ground. Something that I found
very interesting about Stasia is that she never seems to judge one opinion or the other.
It's like very difficult to find her own opinion about the whole thing whether Occlus
should immigrate or not. She accepts everyone's point of view and she tries to do what is

(12:33):
best for Occlus rather than imposing her own opinion. She has so few scenes but she was
such a complex character in the few interactions she had with Emus. Her whole worldview came
out, it simply popped out of the page.
I enjoy listening to conversations between people and when I'm writing dialogue I try

(12:57):
to make it flow naturally. I find those two, I'd already mapped out a backstory for both
Stasia and Emus and some of that comes across in the bullet and other parts you've come
to discover through the course of the story and some of it is just implied. But Stasia,
I find she is a very grounding influence on Emus. He's someone who is an adventurer and

(13:24):
he is quite gregarious. In many ways he sees some of these qualities in Occlus too. Whereas
Stasia, I'd say she is probably a bit more inquisitive than many of the people in her
clan. I think she values education, she enjoys seeing that curiosity in the young and she
wants them to find opportunities outside of their home clan. I think she would have also

(13:48):
liked that for herself to some extent but she chose to stay in there and educating the
tidlings that were found in Drasse. So she's made some sacrifices I think but she's also,
I'd say that all of it is very intentional. She knows what she's doing, she knows why
she's made the choices she has and the same goes for Emus. I'd say that at one point the

(14:11):
two of them discuss raising the tidlings and the ability to really bond with them and because
perhaps I should actually mention a little bit about Nihad's biology at this point because
I think it's relevant. They don't reproduce in the usual sense. I use pronouns he and
she so they kind of recognize gender but it's really more to describe their sense of self

(14:36):
or identity. And so how do Nihads come about? Well, they are harvested from the sea and
this is a dark fantasy story so there's an element of magic I suppose behind their creation.
I do touch on that in the duology but sometimes when you're writing fantasy you introduce
people to concepts and you just hope that they will embrace it and go along with that.

(15:01):
And it was interesting just looking at how that would impact culture and the way people
see things because they have no control over their own population numbers. However many
tidlings which come as these small sort of coral polyps to the shore and however many
wash up that's the number that they have to work with and to look after and so it's a

(15:21):
very community-based way of raising their young. You wouldn't have parents instead you
would have an entire group of first carers and then various educators raising them and
they grow very quickly so within the first five years of their life they're virtually
teenagers I suppose you could say and they're ready to you know prepare for adulthood. Because

(15:41):
Deja is involved in the system of raising and educating groups of youngsters she doesn't
really have a chance to bond with them and I suppose that adds to some of her impartial
nature she's very good at balancing the needs of many different people. Whereas Emmis is
able to get very close to his mentees he has only I suppose two or three at a time on average.

(16:04):
In Ockless's case he's wanting to just focus entirely on the one mentee so he's able to
develop that kind of influence that a parent would have really and which is a concept that
is foreign to NIAIDs. It was just interesting having him and Stasia discussing the differences.
She actually expresses longing that she would like to have that same closeness in being

(16:28):
able to guide a young person's views introduce them to new things you know develop more of
a relationship with them.
At some point in that conversation with Emmis it even feels like she envies him not deeply
but at least she envies not him but the connection he's able to form she implies at least how

(16:49):
I read it was that she implied that trying not to bond too deeply with the juveniles
was safer for her because of her daily job.
Yes Stasia I think she's someone who does feel deeply and she does seek connection and
she does I think it's true of everyone really I suppose her culture and the way her clan

(17:12):
does things they are a little bit more reserved more distant there isn't that closeness and
she does have that she has you could almost say like a long-distance relationship with
Emmis even though there's no pair bonding in that parental sense and the NIAIDs do still
form romantic relationships they can experience kinds of intimacy with each other.

(17:34):
I wanted to I thought it was quite sweet between the two of them what they offer each other
Stasia is someone who Emmis trusts he bounces ideas off of her he sees her as a wise person
someone who can give him guidance and Stasia she does envy Emmis to some degree because
the clan that he's from Dras Rindar is perhaps a bit more open to the idea of travel and

(17:57):
as I mentioned earlier I do think she would have traveled a bit in her youth she ultimately
does feel that she owes a lot to her own clan but she still she lives for curiously through
Emmis in some ways I imagine the two of them keeping in contact even when he's far away
and her being quite interested in the people he's meeting and what he's doing the things

(18:18):
that he's learned I think she's quite excited for the opportunities that he does offer the
juveniles.
Yeah she mentioned that a few times that he will give them a knowledge that or an experience
that her and the system in which she works can't offer with that I want to circle back
to what you mentioned of the education I honestly found that to be mind-blowing sometimes in

(18:42):
fantasy we tend to find societies that are more human than they should you know that
they tend to have a lot of similarities with humanity and what I really loved here is that
by removing the concept of a family basically raising up the tidelinks and the juveniles
is a quote-unquote problem for the entire societies they have this whole structure that

(19:05):
also changes how they relate to each other there was no tribalism at the family level
it's only at the clan level it's a minor detail but it completely changes the entire society
why did you decide to focus on that what themes you wanted to explore?
Yes when I started planning Far Removed I decided one of the lovely things about speculative

(19:30):
fiction you can see it in things like Ursula Le Guin's heinous cycle the left hand of darkness
I was introduced to that book which also looks at you know you take a society that's quite
human in some ways but then you can just dismantle it and maybe change one or two key features
about it it's interesting as a thought experiment just to see how that can completely set that

(19:54):
society going in a different direction from anything we're used to you know in many ways
even societies today I feel that appearance perhaps as much of a strong influence that
nuclear family of the mother the father and the children that is breaking up a bit today
and there are many other influences families that look very different from that traditional

(20:16):
model it was just interesting to look at a culture where there really are no families
in that natural sense it actually shaped the clans it's shaped some of the very rigid views
that we were discussing earlier the concerns about immigration and that and even the fact
that wealthier clans like Dress Save those that are quite innovative they put emphasis

(20:39):
on measures like they're looking into cloning and that kind of thing because there's they
need that insurance policy for future generations they have to rely on the sea to see whether
any more Nihads are going to be washing up up on their shores and they'll be able to
keep everything going in the future they can't sort of encourage people to have more babies

(21:00):
because that's not an option so to my mind that added to the social segregation that
we see both in far removed and we get hints of that in tidings because the fear of newer
clans largely stems from the sense of well our numbers could dwindle and we could be
overrun by newer clans that may start having a larger population than us and so that it

(21:24):
introduces a lot of these controlled measures where they're trying to kind of prop themselves
up and keep other groups down but then also just on a psychological level of the way the
different clans would operate and understand things if you haven't had just two parents
influencing you you're raised by an entire community one of two things could happen you

(21:47):
could either have quite a detached feeling towards the others in your clan you wouldn't
have that kind of anchor of okay there's someone who I am loved by who really I can confide
in that feeling could be spread across an entire group of people or it could be dulled
to an extent then there are other clans and my other protagonist in far removed Prisma

(22:09):
is from like a lower middle class clan she's not as well off as Ockless I won't spoil too
much about where she is in the duology because she has been through some difficult things
but her clan of origin is a very loving clan it's a smaller clan there is even though there
are no parental figures there's a lot more like closeness and intimacy between the harvest

(22:32):
mates which would be like siblings and the carers there I thought it was just lovely
the idea that in reality as we experience it you it's a bit like the lottery you could
be born to parents who are very attentive very loving other people find themselves in
very broken families whereas with the Nihads they would all get much the same level of

(22:54):
attention growing up in their clan depending on the way their clan handles things that
actually opens up to so many possibilities I also read the left hand of darkness I also
thought it was an amazing book and when I read yours I did have the impression that
you were doing with some key factors on the society to change it circling back to something

(23:16):
that you mentioned regarding the harvest mates which are these groups of kids that are raised
together something that struck me is that I would have expected them from my very human
perspective to perhaps behave more like siblings but given the interactions they have they
felt more like classmates rather than siblings which again ties back to what you mentioned

(23:39):
of the lack of it's not human in this case Nihad connection and the love and the care
that may have to some degree I think that also influences how they seek to communicate
with other communities especially the communities that are far away because if they are so young
and they are not allowed to have that type of close connection either with a parent or

(24:01):
a role model for your or with siblings that of course will affect how they relate to societies
especially as they grow to become to take on professions like a politician or something
yes especially in dress save they have fairly high numbers of the tidlings that arrive on
their shores and so in the average year they would have over 30 of them and it's difficult

(24:24):
to create sibling bonds with 30 people going through life at the same pace as you but even
so I kind of imagine them as you had mentioned in that classmate type environment you would
have some that are closer to each other than others so Ockless like some of the other misfits
in the group he's drawn to Kazimir and Ranec those two are well Ranec especially is quite

(24:50):
a spaced out strange girl but I love her she's odd and I'm a bit odd too so it was nice being
able to write little hints that some of them were had grown a bit closer and had formed
something along the lines of friendships or that sibling bond as with normal families
too though you will have siblings sometimes that you don't get on with at all and towards

(25:14):
the end there's a moment where Ockless interacts with another of his harvest mates Vestri she's
very ambitious and she is proud of her savian heritage she sees she's one of those people
where from a young age she already knows what she wants to do with her life hasn't really
considered other options but she has identified a track where she can get very far in life

(25:37):
and she's just set on that it was an interesting contrast with Ockless they're both young but
he definitely embraces that curiosity towards the world outside as opposed to just trying
to achieve a great deal his interest isn't really in wealth or in status he does come
to accumulate some of these things in his life but it's not his end goal so it was fun

(26:00):
kind of creating a bit of tension between him and some of the harvest mates that don't
see things the way he does yeah and that also I think made it pop up from the page because
even though they all got a somewhat similar education and environment they are so different
especially Vestri and Ockless and that also speaks out of the individuality they have

(26:24):
that even when they have this society-wide pre-established way of being educated you
still have the differences it's not only on the nurture it's also on the nature side who
you end up being yes I like that nature versus nurture is such an interesting concept with
the way I structured Nihid society it gave me a chance to display some of that or just

(26:49):
to play with those ideas and because Faramuft is largely dealing with adult characters it
was really fun to use this prequel novelette as an opportunity to just look at the dynamics
between all of these characters and just to see how even if you've all passed through
the same system it could be like on a genetic molecular level that you're already destined

(27:14):
to become a certain kind of person again it could also come down to choices that you make
in life who you decide you want to be and even with the tidlings I've mentioned on a
molecular level I love the idea that they were in constant flux they were always changing
because they're kind of made to camouflage underwater when they're in that very early

(27:36):
stage of development that idea of like their skin tone changing their facial features changing
everything is kind of a bit unstable in those first few years of their lives before they
start settling into themselves they even refer to the young tidlings with a new pronoun that
I use throughout this series which is er in place of he or she him her it's just the idea

(28:01):
that when they first arrive on the shores there's potential there they could come to
identify as a male or andrid female or geinard they could look any way you just don't know
and so there's a lot of room and I think that's just really it's almost like making physical
the concept that that children are bundles of potential that you actually can't really

(28:25):
impose things on them all sorts of things can can shape them over time whether it's
like physically or in terms of their personality and their mind all of these things are kind
of open to to changing and even if they all raise together there's still a lot of variation
within that group and there is also a lot of acceptance that is something that I particularly

(28:49):
liked they had this custom of not assuming anything and using the new pronoun instead
of assigning one to a person until that naiad in particular will present themselves and
will say the name and the pronouns and all the details but it was also so imbed in the
society that you could see that when emmy's interacted with oculus in some parts he was

(29:11):
also assessing that behavior as politeness and it was clear to me that it's part of the
culture how the tidelinks changed I really like that that concept at the start especially
when we have a scene I think emmy sees looking at the sea and they see some of them being
harvested and as they are walking some of them are already changing but others are waiting

(29:34):
so not everybody changes at the same time and I think that it's very clear throughout
the story that the different tidelinks or juveniles they all change at different speeds
and that's also very accepted at least in this novelette it didn't seem that the educators
will put up specific years in which they will have had to change

(29:55):
Yes it was fun just look at this culture because in many ways dress save does seem to be quite
rigid in their views towards immigrants in their understanding of the outside world but
then in other ways they're quite open minded so it's this contrast and I think you see
that in reality too people surprise you because it's almost as if you build up walls in your

(30:19):
mind in certain places and then in others you can be very free and accepting it actually
provides you with the opportunity to challenge yourself and say well you know maybe I can
deconstruct some of those walls and looking at this culture I'd say one of the good things
about Nihads in dress save and I think this is a quality that many of the clowns would

(30:41):
have just by the nature of their biology I'd say they're all quite open minded when it
comes to the development of tidelinks and who they end up becoming there may be some
concerns not so much in terms of like how the tideling looks or at what age they've
reached certain developmental goals it would come down more to whether they're going to

(31:02):
bring honor to their clan whether they are going to especially in dress save I'd say
if they do have people leaving the clan they kind of want them to retain that sense of
who they are they want them to represent them correctly and so there is that little bit
of pressure as well on characters like Ockless who are going to be abroad and it also seemed

(31:23):
to be some sort of help from the government I'm not sure what will be the word to sustain
the juveniles after they graduate and there was a whole concern there it's very similar
to what happens in real world if Ockless lives what happens there he should give something
back to the community that raised him you know the similar questions that we have what

(31:46):
I liked in there is as you mentioned before the contradiction that it appears to be between
how accepting they are of the individual as long as individual belongs to dress save and
if they are from the outside they are not that respectful because Emis I think he's
a different color he seemed to be more rusty brown reddish or something like that and they

(32:09):
make some comments like he looks like an outsider or there are it's very nuanced it's never
very overt in the text but they were making those comments in turn the tie links will
change and everybody will be that's okay you know and it's as you said it's that contradiction
that makes it feel natural because we humans are a mass of contradictions ourselves as

(32:32):
well not only at an individual level but also at a societal level yes sorry I start every
answer with yes because you always say such you make such good comments so I can only
read thank you yeah it is fascinating of all of the prejudices that you see in NIAIDs I'd

(32:53):
say it's not so much in terms of their skin colors and that because they there's such
a variety of them their skin colors are largely influenced by the marine environments that
they were found in so they could be influenced by corals or various seaweeds or in the case
of dress save a lot of them come out with a bluish kind of tone because it's quite a

(33:14):
cold environment and quite murky there's not a lot of color there and that was just a fun
world building concept but it was kind of fun in that one scene you'd mentioned with
the tidlings and they're curious so they're going to point out well actually it's the
juvenile group not the tidlings they're going to point out things like the fact that emus
looks different from them especially since they're not used to encountering foreigners

(33:37):
whereas if they had gone to enough clans they'd see NIAIDs in like every shape and color and
form you can imagine how how it's addressed is very differently because when the adults
Valenska and all of them they meet with emus their approach is more like ah outsider instead
the kids when they actually see him it's more like oh outsider you know with you all the

(34:01):
curiosity and the reaction is completely different even when one can be thought of as mildly
offensive because they treat him like you're less because you're from a different clan
while the kids have that innate curiosity we all end up losing.
It was fun actually again just looking at that contrast that you'd mentioned I'd say

(34:24):
the the elders in Drasov they have some respect for emus simply because he's from another
island in the same channel area as them but certainly that doesn't extend towards clans
that are like further away or clans that are like the lower levels orta which would be
middle class or the unclassified clans which are very new clans there would be some bias

(34:47):
towards them there's even some bias towards some of the other preymor clans that are of
a similar level to them but very far away and they don't understand them it was a good
thing I thought just to show the children are excited by new things they're excited
by someone who's different who probably has many stories to tell they respond to emus

(35:08):
fairly quickly.
And they also when they respond it's again like we can see leaks within the kids some
of them are very reserved and they are in a group and they just leave and others are
there like trying to catch his attention and popping questions and it felt very realistic
something that I think almost all of us as adults can remember having done in the past

(35:33):
as children you know that approach of curiosity let's ask questions even when some of the
questions that come from there in the novel it's very fast-paced emus rushes it off but
the children they were asking like very normal common questions out of sheer curiosity as
well and what I liked from there again it ties back to that idea that even if they are

(35:56):
all raised together they are all different it was perhaps the idea of a closer group
those cliques those friends that get to form in there and how they end up having similar
personality traits as well I really like that because then again when emus interacts with
the adults you can see roughly the same groups you know you can see the people that are quieter

(36:19):
the people that come in there and ask questions people like Valenska who shows it's very
blunt with his opinions and so on I love that contrast how they can go from one group to
the other even if at this stage of course they are different naiots
there's a good sense of any classroom you know you would have children with the different

(36:40):
temperaments and I wanted to just reflect that we'd mentioned Bistri a bit earlier and
she tends to mix with other young naiots who are interested in getting somewhere so there's
a bit of competition between them there's also the sense of okay well if I mix with
this group of people they can take me places then there's there are others like I'd mentioned

(37:01):
the ones that Okles tends to befriend but the thing with Okles that I wanted to highlight
because it's something that stays with him throughout his life is the fact that he can
straddle the lines of those different cliques in the class or between his harvest mates
even if he doesn't necessarily get along with all of them especially those like Bistri who

(37:21):
see things very differently from him and this is something he may have in common with Stasia
to an extent he is quite accepting and able to kind of maneuver around the differences
and try to find some way to be civil with people some way to make them all get along
to an extent so he does have his preferred group the misfits the ones that are a bit

(37:43):
quieter he enjoys kind of bringing them out of their shells but then he also does know
how to speak to the others and even it's mentioned a bit later on in the book that he's not particularly
talented in any one area like academics or sports but he's involved in everything and
he's eager to support the others so he'll come and cheer on the sports team of their

(38:07):
side and he likes to identify qualities in people and try to bring those out which is
something Emus really appreciates because he does the same thing because Okles does
come to kind of appreciate that process of education it's something that he then continues
in Far Removed as well and so you can see the seeds of that interest his interest in

(38:28):
people all coming out.
Yeah that's a great point I love that comparison you made between Okles and Stacia I think
it's also we can contrast that to the children when the juveniles approach Emus their curiosity
feels more of this is something new this is something different I want to ask questions

(38:49):
and get that knowledge while Stacia's and Okles curiosity is more of this is a different
person they have a different background I want to understand them and I think that's
what makes Okles such a good negotiator and also somebody who is capable of understanding
the others because I'm not sure if it is intuitive because we don't get to have his POV in this

(39:13):
novelette he always seems to be trying to understand the other taking cues about the
other and at the same time just like Stacia he remains non-judgmental and that's what
foster that empathy.
I find a lot of people really liked Okles as a character in Far Removed and I thought
it was interesting to have you know a male presenting character who does have that strong

(39:36):
sense of empathy and who is interested in like the emotional temperature of a room because
it's not something that you see terribly often I just thought it would be it's a lovely thing
to write I mean I put Okles through some things in Far Removed he goes through some difficulties
but I think he wins people over rather quickly and when you're writing a society that has

(39:58):
a lot of harshness to it both in Far Removed and in the tidings of Dressade there are some
rather heavy themes there's a lot of prejudice the people don't necessarily treat each other
well or have a very good perception of one another I needed someone to kind of act as
a vehicle to kind of keep that that empathy and that hope and that sense of connection

(40:19):
between people because it could become quite a difficult story to write if it was only
focusing on characters who you know were wanting to shut people out and not come to sort of
challenge their thinking so even if we feature some of those characters I needed to follow
characters like Emis and Stasia and then Okles who are kind of beacons of light or of that

(40:42):
care for others and wanting to to create connection rather than like segregate people.
It was a very interesting contrast between his worldviews and the ones from the council
from Valenska and Alofem.
Something that you mentioned in there is how Okles being a male presenting character and

(41:03):
how he has his empathy something that I noticed there it's also that Emis also has some feelings
that are not generally presented in a male character there is a whole section in which
he reveals to Stasia that he would like to have an heir which is something that in this
society it's not possible at all not physically and apparently it seems that not also legally

(41:27):
that they cannot take cares there was a bit in there implied but I wanted to ask you a
bit more about that and what will be the implications of that desire Emis had?
I think it's it grows out of what we were discussing a bit earlier that desire for closeness
for like passing on a bit of yourself a bit of the way you see things so even though they

(41:51):
don't have those smaller families even though everything is very kind of community based
there's still a sense of like I've got something valuable and I want someone else to like carry
that on in the future when I'm gone it's just lovely the thought that doesn't have to be
you know a biological relative that can be that mentor mentee dynamic that they have

(42:14):
was lovely to look at there are so many ways that we can actually pass on skills or knowledge
or values to younger people and you don't actually have to be a blood relative to them
Emis does have that softer side he enjoys like bonding with people and being able to

(42:34):
impart some of those values that he has as opposed to just you know preparing them for
life with in a particular profession and it goes beyond that he wants to shape their experiences
he wants to let them see things a little bit the way he does but he also wants them to
kind of grow past him and although he's taken apprentices over the years in different fields

(42:57):
and he's sort of prepared them to go in whatever direction they're interested in in Ockless's
case there's also a strong sense of he's almost looking for a son figure someone who beyond
just like preparing him to be a success he also wants to he trusts him he thinks this
is someone if I like left my estate to him he'd do good things with it and that becomes

(43:20):
quite important and we see like the fruits of that in Far Removed when Ockless is an
adult
now I'm even more interested in reading on that something that I really liked from Emis
is his that he seems to think that the mentees they don't need to pay him they need to pay
it forward he's always looking for the people he trained and he educated to do something

(43:44):
for society or to go back and continue that work with other people not with him and I
think that's a trait of a great mentor at any point Emis wanted to create clones of
himself he just wanted to give the others the opportunity to develop and I think that's
also what happens with Ockless that he's really looking for someone who can continue to pay

(44:08):
it forward you know continue to at least that's how I read it and I felt it felt that it tied
in very nicely with his feelings of wanting to have that son figure that you mentioned
especially because he seems to be older and he seems to also think that his time is running
out so he better prepare somebody to continue the work that he was doing

(44:30):
at this point Emis is like middle-aged as Nyads go he's in that place where he is thinking
about what kind of legacy he wants to leave he's he's wanting to do something a little
different than what he's done in the past with the other mentees I liked what you said
about paying it forward that is I think that's such an important thing when you're writing

(44:51):
privileged characters Emis and Ockless are the people who check their privilege there's
nothing wrong with having an abundance of money Emis has done well for himself as an
entrepreneur he's very well connected but he doesn't want to just like store that all
for himself and maybe that's what makes him different from some of the other Preymoor

(45:13):
clans and people like Valenska who there's almost a sense of scarcity of oh you know
everyone on the outside is lacking and we've got an abundance but now they're going to
come and take from us so we must just hold on very tightly and keep everyone out Emis
chooses to look at things through it in a different way he just sees opportunity I think
it's very true that when you don't have a closed fist you know you open your hands then

(45:37):
interestingly good things do often come your way then you're able to share it and just
seems to have like this accumulative effect rather than the sense of people taking and
things sort of being dispersed and running away from you you know people are drawn to
Emis they're drawn to
biased perceptions about each other. And so one of the main themes that I detected while
I was reading was a bias towards immigrants and also the prejudices about the other clans.
What inspired you to touch these themes? Far Removed, actually, I'll give this information
about it, I won't spoil it, but the setting. It's a very socially segregated society.
They have quite a strong class system. They've got the first clans to emerge and they are
very powerful and they tend to subject those newer clans that have emerged in more recent
centuries. I thought it would be a good opportunity in the novelettes just to look a it's lovely just to to see that these kinds of characters you
know there's nothing inherently wrong with them being privileged but they they know how

(46:01):
to use it in a way that is for the betterment of many people beyond them perhaps that also
ties up to how well traveled Emis is because he probably saw a lot and there are a few
comments in there that imply that he saw quite a lot of things hardship and everything else

(46:22):
in himself and in others and I think that also changes your perspective of what you
have or what you don't have if you have been through hardship it's far easier to during
a moment of wealth to actually value what you have because of what you have been and
in this case his travels and everything he has done has also affected how he sees his

(46:44):
own wealth and what he can do for others instead of keeping it for himself he just wants to
give I'm just thinking that there is a connection there perhaps between what he has seen and
how he acts I actually found when I was writing parts of Far Removed it doesn't take us all
across the moon where you can actually see the different clans but it's a more I'd mentioned

(47:08):
earlier it's a cosmopolitan area and so you do have quite a variety of people from different
backgrounds and you get that sense of this bigger world and the kinds of things that
the different clans go through although that's you don't really get a sense of that in the
novel it because it's very focused just on the clan in which it takes place but I did

(47:29):
think to myself when I was writing Emis you know he would have maybe not experienced hardship
himself but some of his empathy would have grown from encountering clans that had less
or clans that had been taken advantage of so when he when he does choose to mentor Oklus
he wants to take him to see some of these things too and Oklus is also he is also shaped

(47:52):
by some of the experiences he has the fruits of that also come up in Far Removed I don't
think this is a big spoiler because it's it's something that's established in the very first
chapter of Far Removed that Oklus has founded a college and it's specifically aimed at helping
Nihads who are from some of these poorer clans and there's that sense of him wanting to share

(48:15):
some of what he has.
Yeah and he mentions that as well a few times that he has accumulated so much that he doesn't
want it to go anywhere but to another person someone who could actually continue what he's
doing and what I liked from that relationship is that he comes in very set on what he wants

(48:36):
on the person he wants and the characteristics and he's not really looking you know for technical
expertise or intelligence it's like from the start he's looking at that empathy that Oklus
seems to have.
Oklus is an intelligent capable character but actually when I was writing him I decided

(48:56):
that really his defining quality should be that sense of empathy towards others because
you can have someone who is brilliant but they're just going to kind of focus on their
area of interest on their profession you just need to look at our world to see that people
who can become wildly successful or who are extremely competent in an area they're not

(49:18):
necessarily the best people.
Oklus he does have like the rest of his clan he's got a talent for the sciences he's inquisitive
he does want to keep learning he got that sense of like whatever he experiences he wants
to share that with others he wants to he wants to bring out the best in others and even though
he's young and you know in many teenagers I suppose it's quite normal to be a little

(49:41):
bit selfish or focus just on your your own future but he kind of wants to bring others
along for the ride and he likes to identify qualities in other people he sees something
that they can offer and it's almost like Oklus has this bird's eye view where he's kind of
looking at the bigger picture and he he kind of wants to bring the best people on board
and see how he can kind of encourage them to be better they all contribute to this vision

(50:06):
that he has that comes across a little bit more strongly and far removed but already
in tidings I wanted to come across that he can identify the strengths in his harvest
mates there's no jealousy there or I wish that was me instead he likes to say okay well
this person's good at in this area that person's good in another then you bring them all together

(50:27):
into a team and then we can accomplish things together I think that's a lovely trait that
he has and Emus shares that with him.
It's that idea of we rise by lifting others and I think they both have that and that Emus
was looking for that not for anything else especially because he was looking for that
hair some sort I think that Oklus takes a lot from Stasia in that regard because she

(50:51):
also seems to have that view of trying to identify what everyone is good on and trying
to improve on that.
I like it when people draw a comparison between Oklus and Stasia like the comparison between
him and Emus is perhaps a little bit more obvious in that there's that that desire for
travel and that more adventurous spirit where Stasia is a little quieter more reserved but

(51:16):
the two of them she and Oklus definitely they have that diplomatic ability to kind of balance
the interests of different parties and try to find something in common that they can
kind of bring people together on or even subtly move people because I think Stasia also does
have a slightly like a naughty streak where she'll she does like to kind of subvert the

(51:41):
status quo she likes to kind of invite people like Emus in and she likes to kind of enable
people like him and Oklus to kind of just change things a little bit but not in noticeable
ways where it's going to kind of cause trouble in that way I suppose she's a little bit subtler
than Oklus or Emus but I do like seeing her do that.

(52:01):
It's funny because sometimes I think people you know you have your major antagonists in
fantasy stories you'll have dictators you'll have very like obviously evil people and Velenska
is a minor antagonist he's not necessarily the worst of people but certainly you can
see some very problematic views that he brings across in this story he does present obstacles

(52:24):
sometimes the views that he shares are sadly like they're the kinds of things that feel
kind of real like you could actually hear someone saying that or read something on social
media that kind of reflects you know his prejudices and his lack of interest in being challenged
on certain things it could be partially because of his position I've mentioned in the story

(52:46):
that Velenska along with a few of the others they are part of their heir presumptives which
means that they're kind of like the custodians of the culture in their clan you know they'd
be like the nobility of their clan and because you can't really have nobility through blood
relatives instead it's almost like a random selection or each clan has their own process
of selecting their nobility but Velenska happens to be part of this group exceptionally I guess

(53:10):
it would be a bit like many European royals today they're not really influencing like
the governance of their their countries there are politicians handling that but they're
kind of they represent certain traditions and things that's the role that Velenska and
a few of the others like him play within his clan he is eager to kind of take over from

(53:33):
the current pier of Drassev I haven't put that explicitly in the text but it's kind
of implied that he's got his eye on that role since the current pier is getting older and
she's looking to kind of hand it over and then the governors would vote on which of
the heir presumptives would be taking over next it was good to kind of introduce him
and his views because I wanted to imply that he likely will get that role and then Okles

(53:59):
makes some comments about pier save in Far Removed many years later and you can kind
of think okay that's probably a Velenska he's talking about just based on the sort of decisions
this person's making but I like dropping little easter eggs like that and keeping it kind
of subtle where not everyone's going to pick up on the little connections between the snob

(54:19):
elite and far removed but if you're paying attention you may be able to kind of fill
in some of those gaps that's something that I actually loved when I read the novella house
the subtle clues that you put up about the war building and what I liked from Valenska
granted he is a despicable character feel what I loved from him is how through his conversation

(54:43):
we got a glimpse of the geopolitics and the entire dynamics of the societies and I think
what makes him quite a quiet but terrifying antagonist is that we can find people like
him in real life we can find people who don't want to let a society change and they have

(55:04):
power to stop that it's something again that's not often commonly found in fantasy or in
sci-fi and I thought it ties very well with with all the concepts related to presciences
from one society to another and with the Nihads and how they are as a society as well.
A lot of high fantasy stories will feature tyrants who are kind of bent on conquest of

(55:30):
you know expanding and taking over other areas and certainly there are some societies or
some clans within Nihadria who have done that but some of the antagonists that I present
whether it's Valenska or whether it's the Arudian Pentaki who appear in Faramut and
they're virtually like the worldwide council they're even a higher authority than what

(55:54):
you would get in different regions but there's like actually something very impressive about
leaders who are just you know resisting change at all costs or who are just kind of like
locking things down so it's not necessarily a very violent or expansive kind of rule but
it's still it's limiting people and it's yeah it creates quite an oppressive feeling that's

(56:18):
all I that's the word that keeps coming up that sense of not being able to move forward
and it's not necessarily what is best for a society it's certainly not what is best
for individuals and maybe they can't see it but they're actually hurting themselves
in the process it creates tension and unrest that like slowly bubbles up so it's been interesting

(56:40):
exploring some of that in the duology.
I personally felt it on tidelinks it's not overt it's not very explicit it's looming
and that's the threat you know knowing there is a prequel and that you have this thing
building up in the back and it I was reading and asking myself when is this going to blow
up I think that's also the threat of it you know you never know when that change will

(57:06):
just bubble up and happen because it has been a stall for so much time.
Because there's this lack of interconnectivity between plans and lack of communication really
it actually makes it all the more intense that sense of something these bad things in
society these problems that are not being addressed can lead to all kinds of like extremist

(57:29):
behavior although I actually I focus on some rebel groups that come up over the course
of the duology they all have different approaches but there is one group that is presented as
largely good people who are looking to kind of restore some balance who are looking to
open lines of communication and so I don't want to spoil anything more of that but it

(57:52):
is something that comes up it's on the blurb of far removed but there isn't you don't
get a sense of the opposition within tidings but you do see that there's like this void
that is being left and and something needs to kind of fill that.
I honestly when I read I'm not sure if you read the Ada Palmer prologue that one that

(58:12):
I mentioned the world building that is like dropping clues so that you can see that the
world is a hundred thousand puzzle pieces when I read your novella I thought this is
it and honestly it was both an enjoyable experience as a reader but also a learning opportunity
so I really enjoyed it.

(58:34):
Thank you that means so much I love reading books in you know within the speculative fiction
umbrella just the way they introduce you to so many new concepts but when it's done subtly
and when you can just drop little hints through conversation or through context tidings was
a wonderful opportunity to look at culture and geopolitics as you mentioned because everything

(58:58):
within the story yes it's about a mentor looking for a mentee but that whole process introduces
us to a particular clan and it looks at some of their festivals it looks at the structure
of their society the way they raise their young the sort of views held by the people
in power within that that area and all of these things just come through mostly through

(59:22):
conversation but also just since Emus is an outsider it makes sense that he's sort of
observing and that inwardly he's sort of remarking on things within his POV it was good because
if it had been from Ockless's point of view there would be no need for him to sort of
make comments on the way they do things on dress save because that's just how it is it's

(59:43):
normal for him so it would seem a bit out of character for him to suddenly pay attention
to the way things are run or the way his dormitory is arranged or the festivals and things that
he's participating in these are all routines to him just the fact that Emus although he's
familiar with it all he's not there all the time and so he was able to to bring a slight

(01:00:05):
outsider's perspective and then that acted as a bridge to introduce the reader to the
society and Emus is also kind of inwardly checking you know what is normal to him and
then he compares dress save's way of doing things to what he's grown used to and yeah
it was good to just make those little comparisons and contrasts and allows us to kind of do

(01:00:26):
the same as we're reading.
The same time gave so many layers into the world you know because you have what he's
seen what he's thinking the comparisons he's drawing and the ones that we as readers are
also drawing between the Niles are not really like humans oh they have this little thing
different oh they don't have families oh they have this and it was truly a discovery

(01:00:48):
journey and I loved it yeah.
Thank you it just makes my day when the reader appreciates like the world because although
I'm always trying to develop my writing craft I really love the world building aspect and
if I can introduce people to that world in a way that is compelling then you know that's

(01:01:08):
all I can ask for.
So on that note thank you so much Ko it has been an incredible discussion.
Thank you for having me Livia.
And before we go will you tell us where the listeners can find you?
Yes you can find me I'll give my website first which is cblansdill.com and I have a monthly

(01:01:28):
blog there where I will occasionally post just writing updates or observations I have
things that I've learned while writing otherwise you can find me on my socials Twitter and
Instagram at the cblansdill that is my handle I'm also on TikTok but I very rarely use that

(01:01:49):
blue sky is another option yes so looking forward to hearing from anyone who's who
would like to discuss world building or share some of their own views.
Yep and remember that her book Far Removed can be found on Amazon and you will find all
her links her socials and the links to her books on the episode's description.

(01:02:10):
Likewise if you like the episode please like and subscribe and let's continue the discussion
in the comments.
If you want bite-sized discussions prose analysis delivered right into your email sign up for
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Thanks for listening and happy reading.