The age-old question of whether books truly outshine their film adaptations takes an intriguing turn with "Our Towns," a fascinating exploration of America's overlooked communities. Unlike traditional adaptations, this HBO Max documentary serves as a complementary companion to James and Deborah Fallows' non-fiction journey across the United States.
For five years, the Fallows traveled to dozens of small cities and towns that rarely make national headlines, documenting how these communities tackle their unique challenges. What began as a simple blog post asking readers to share stories about their hometowns blossomed into a comprehensive investigation of American resilience and innovation at the local level.
The documentary revisits eight of these communities, providing viewers with a vivid, on-the-ground perspective of how places like Sioux Falls, South Dakota and East Port, Maine are reinventing themselves. The film beautifully captures what makes each town unique while highlighting universal themes that emerge across different regions.
What stands out most powerfully are the unexpected heroes of these revival stories. Libraries emerge as crucial community hubs, offering far more than books—they provide internet access, educational programs, and even specialized resources like gardening tools. Immigrant populations breathe new life into struggling economies, often becoming the backbone of industries local residents have abandoned. Artists transform vacant buildings into vibrant cultural spaces, while innovative educational approaches prepare students for meaningful work in their communities.
The timing of these projects offers a fascinating historical snapshot: the book captures pre-Trump America (2013-2016), while the documentary filmed just before the pandemic reshaped our world again. Though I ultimately give the documentary a slight edge (3.5 stars vs the book's 3 stars), both works provide valuable insights into how America's forgotten places are writing their own comeback stories—not through federal intervention or grand economic schemes, but through grassroots creativity and community determination.
Discover these inspiring stories of revival and find out why the documentary version narrowly wins this round in the eternal books versus movies debate. Leave a rating and review if you enjoyed this exploration of America's heartland renaissance!
All episodes of the podcast can be found on our website: https://booksvsmovies.buzzsprout.com/share
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Books vs Movies, the podcast where I set
out to answer the age-oldquestion is the book really
always better than the movie?
I'm Yuvia, an actress and booklover based out of New York City
, and today I will be discussingOur Towns A 100,000 Mile
Journey into the Heart ofAmerica by James and Deborah
Fallows and its 2021 adaptation,our Towns, streaming on HBO Max
(00:26):
.
So hello everyone.
I don't think this will be avery long episode.
I could be wrong, but thereisn't much to discuss in terms
of differences for this, becausethis is a nonfiction book and
its adaptation isn't really anadaptation.
They're calling it that.
(00:48):
I mean, like the filmmakersthemselves are calling it that.
They're saying like it's basedon the book.
So technically it is anadaptation, but I like to think
of it more of an accompaniment,since it is actually a
documentary.
So, unlike Nomadland, which isa non-fiction journalistic book
(01:08):
and then took an original storybased on that and made it into a
film, this is actually adocumentary that you can watch
in lieu of the book or, afteryou read the book, watch the
film to get kind of a miniupdate.
So I will go get more into that, but first and foremost, I do
(01:29):
want to talk about a not sohappy El Paso shout out.
So this not so happy El Pasoshout out is courtesy of On
Earth we're Briefly Gorgeous byOcean Vuong, and this was meant
to be included in theUnderground Railroad episode.
But by the time I actuallyfinished On Earth we're Briefly
(01:51):
Gorgeous before I had evenfinished Underground Railroad,
and so I was like I do want toinclude this, but I'm not even
done with the book.
I don't even know what.
At that point I didn't evenknow what my next podcast
episode was going to be.
So I turned in On Earth we'reBriefly Gorgeous and I didn't
include it in the episode, eventhough I do want to keep
(02:12):
shouting out El Paso whenever Isee it, even if it's a
not-so-happy shout out liketoday's shout out.
So I turned in the book.
So what I'm going to talk aboutwas mentioned in On Earth we're
Briefly Gorgeous, but obviouslyit's not going to be the actual
passage that I'm reading from.
As I've done in previous ones,in this one I'm more going to
(02:32):
talk about the subject of theNot so Happy El Paso Shout Out,
because I do think it isimportant and I got reminded of
it and the reason I decided.
You know what this seems to bea sign that I need to include it
is.
I was listening to the March 9thepisode of NPR's the Sunday
Story, and the story that it wasfocusing primarily on that day
(02:53):
was birthright citizenship, andit was mainly focusing on the
story of Wong Kim Ark, who is aUnited States citizen, but he
had to fight for that right tobe called that.
So he's the reason we havebirthright citizenship to this
day.
So Wong Kim Ark was born in theUnited States to Chinese
(03:17):
parents and during the ChineseExclusion Act when that all came
about, he was in China visitingfamily, and when he tried to
return to the United States hewas denied entry because of the
Chinese Exclusion Act, and so hefought for his right to remain
in the country, as he wasvisiting family in China.
(03:40):
But he grew up, he was born,raised, and the United States is
what he knew.
This was his home.
So that is the landmark rulingthat led to the amendment saying
that anyone born on US soil isan American citizen.
So the not-so-happy El Pasoshout-out comes from.
(04:01):
It was mentioned in On Earth.
We're Briefly Gorgeous.
But to go into more detailabout what happened, is that in
1901, so at this point in 1901,it had been four years since
Wong Kim Ark had won his courtcase and it was determined that
he was a US citizen.
(04:21):
And so, in 1901, he crossedfrom Juarez into El Paso and,
due to the Chinese Exclusion Act, he was arrested and
deportation proceedings werestarted against him.
He literally has a court casenamed after him in the Supreme
Court and he was alreadydetermined four years prior,
(04:44):
given the right as a US citizen.
Immigration officials in ElPaso still tried to deport him,
saying that he was in violationof the Chinese Exclusion Act.
It took four months after thisarrest for Wang to win a ruling
again saying that he was aUnited States citizen and that
(05:05):
he was not in violation of theChinese Exclusion Act and
therefore could not be deported.
Again, this happened four yearsafter the Supreme Court ruling.
So I, being from El Paso, I hadno idea.
I mean, I'm going to be honest,I didn't even know Wong Kim
Ark's name before the Sundaystory.
(05:27):
And yeah, it's one of those.
There's things I've learned notso happy things I've learned
about El Paso and how that hasshaped certain things throughout
history.
I'm not going to get into thosedetails in this episode, but
yeah, I'm just surprised that Ihadn't heard about that
particular aspect of El Pasohistory, and so that was the
(05:51):
premise of the Not so Happy ElPaso shout out.
And actually I'm kind of gladthat I didn't bring the Not so
Happy El Paso shout out to theUnderground Railroad just by
reading the passage, because nowI was able to go into a little
bit more detail about Won KimArk and his story and how El
(06:12):
Paso played into his story,sadly.
But that is that, so let's goahead and get into the actual
episode.
So Our Towns by James andDeborah Fallows was first
published in 2018.
And James and Deborah Fallowstraveled all over the United
(06:33):
States for five years in theirlittle airplane and the majority
of this book for four of thosefive years.
It takes place in 2013, 14, 15,and 16.
So all of these things happenedpre-Trump first go-around as
president.
But, yeah, they visited lots ofdifferent towns and they met
(06:55):
with different civic leaders andenvironmentalists, artists,
public servants, librarians,business people, city planners,
students and entrepreneurs tofind out what these cities who
are not as well-known or hardlyever make national news or are
(07:17):
even on people's radars, andfind out what they're doing to
fix the problems in those towns.
The people they interviewedtalked about the problems within
their town, whether that bejust different economic issues a
lot of people left because aplant shut down and so there
wasn't as much revenue coming inor whether that be opioid kind
(07:40):
of issue just different thingsthat every one of these cities
was facing, as well as whatsolutions they're coming up with
to fix these problems.
So, yes, it mainly focuses onthe different problems these
towns had and the ways that theywere trying to fix their towns
and revitalize them and reallyget them growing and back to a
(08:04):
place where it's a place theycould be proud of.
And a lot of these people, justlike I, have a lot of pride in
my hometown and will advocatefor it endlessly in so many ways
.
Doesn't mean it's perfect, as Ijust mentioned in the dark
piece of its history, but Istill have a lot of pride for it
.
And so there's still people inthese towns that you know an
(08:25):
outsider looking in might saythis place is a dump.
These people have a lot ofpride in their hometown and want
to see it revitalized and growinto a place that other people
can see the charm of it as well.
So Our Towns.
The documentary is from 2021,and it shows how different small
(08:48):
cities and towns across thecountry are reinventing
themselves economically, and thedesire to change for the better
can help people and the townsthat they live in find a
(09:12):
different path to the future.
So, yeah, it's just one ofthose things, again, that it's a
little bit hard to compare andcontrast because they're more
complementary of each other.
So you can read the book andlearn a lot about it, about
these different towns, and thenwatch the documentary to kind of
(09:33):
supplement what you just readabout in the book.
So I do want to talk a littlebit about how this project came
about.
So, James Fallows is ajournalist.
He writes for the Atlantic andin 2011, he asked his.
Well, I'm focusing on James.
I honestly don't know ifDeborah is also a journalist,
(09:56):
but I know that James is ajournalist who writes for the
Atlantic.
So I'm focusing on James.
But it could be like a jointproject from the beginning, the
way this book is.
But, yes, he started this blogpost asking readers to share
stories about their town andwhether that be things that
they're struggling with, anysetbacks the town is facing, any
(10:18):
achievements they want tohighlight and these again are
cities and towns that are oftenoverlooked by the media.
You're not really going to findthem anywhere in the national
newspapers or news shows talkingabout them, unless there was a
national disaster or a massshooting, anything like that.
That's usually what brings themup to the spotlight, but
(10:40):
otherwise they're largelyignored.
And they received over 1,000responses and that prompted them
to want to travel all aroundthe United States and actually
get interviewed different peoplethat live in these cities and
find out how these cities arefinding ways to grow and bring
in that economic revenue to fixthe issues that they might be
(11:04):
facing.
So this, as I said, this tookplace in over five years and the
book focuses on 2013 through2016.
And on the inside cover of thebooks there'll be a map that
shows which towns and citiesthey visited in and they'll be
highlighted in a different colordepending on what year they
went.
In 2018, they were joined bytwo documentary filmmakers, and
(11:30):
I don't remember exactly howmany cities, and I want to say
there was maybe 20 cities, 20towns that the book focuses on.
Well, in 2018, the documentaryfilming two documentary
filmmakers joined the Fallows torevisit eight of those cities
for the purpose of thisdocumentary.
So the book, as I said, hasabout 20 towns.
(11:52):
The documentary focuses on SanBernardino, california, sioux
Falls, south Dakota, columbus,mississippi, east Port Maine,
charleston, west Virginia andBend, oregon, and the film kind
of like the book has interviewswith civic leaders, immigrants,
educators, environmentalists,artists, students, just talking
(12:14):
about their love for their townand ways that they're finding to
improve them.
So it's really interestingbecause the book focuses on the
before Trump era and then thefilm focuses on the pre-pandemic
era, so I'm really curious tosee how all of those were
(12:35):
affected by both of those things.
Obviously, we take anothervisit to talk about how the
pandemic may have affected theseplaces, but one of the cities
that's talked about is inKentucky and the people in a
particular town in Kentucky arevery much aware that that city
(12:56):
would die, it would just ceaseto exist without all the
immigrants.
This is a heavily Latinximmigrant population and the
people that live there are verymuch aware that this town would
cease to exist without theimmigrants that live there,
because no one else wants towork at the place that's
(13:18):
bringing in the most jobs andincome revenue without, like,
the immigrants are willing totake on that job and the people
that the non-immigrants are notwilling to work there, and so
they.
This was a place in Kentuckythat they visited in 2016.
So at this point, trump hadalready started some of his
(13:38):
rhetoric.
You know, they're bringingrapists, they're bringing their
criminals that whole rhetoricand so it was interesting to
hear the people that live theretalk about it and they,
according to them, that rhetoricwas not, um, they were not,
that they hadn't heard that,because they had, but it was
more of just like this, doesn't?
(14:00):
It was basically like we don'tsee color kind of issue, like a
answer where it was like, yeah,he's saying that, but I don't,
it's not, it's not going toaffect us here.
Um, we don't think it's goingto affect us here.
So, uh, I'm just really curioushow you know, uh, and the film
doesn't really talk about that,but, mind you, the Kentucky city
(14:21):
that I'm talking about wasn'tone of the ones revisited for
the documentary, but anyway,yeah, so there's that, and I
will say that I really enjoyedso, yeah, so it was really
interesting getting to see thedifferent insights into these
towns and what they're doing toimprove themselves and the
(14:44):
problems they see and how theywant to fix them for the future
and continue growing andexpanding upon that city.
And I will say there wassomething about Sioux Falls,
south Dakota, that I justabsolutely fell in love with,
even while I watched thedocumentary before I read the
book and even after reading thebook, I was like I've obviously
(15:06):
never been to Sioux Falls, southDakota.
I've never been to South Dakotalet's start there but something
about the way it was portrayedin the film and the way it was
written about in the book, I waslike I can see myself living
there and it is another placethat is heavily, that is, very
immigrant heavy.
A lot of the people that livethere are immigrants and there's
(15:28):
the things that they focus onare the unemployment centers and
how they have so many peoplethat speak different languages
working at these unemploymentcenters so that they can help
all these people who maybe don'tspeak English find jobs
somewhere in Sioux Falls.
And I don't know somethingabout that, even like there was
a lot of places that are veryimmigrant heavy.
(15:49):
But there was something aboutSioux Falls and I don't know
something about that, even likethere was a lot of places that
are very immigrant heavy, butthere was something about Sioux
Falls, south Dakota that justmade me be like I wouldn't mind
living there.
But I don't know, maybe I'llactually visit that place and
I'll completely disagree.
But yeah, sioux Falls is one ofthose places that really
benefits from the fact that it'sa big.
(16:09):
It's a big small town, if thatmakes sense.
Sioux Falls is still relativelysmall compared to, like, the
big cities that you think ofwhen you think of the United
States.
So it's, it's still a city, butit's on the smaller side, and a
lot of the people that go toSioux Falls actually live in the
outer suburbs and so the outersuburbs benefit from Sioux Falls
(16:33):
benefits from these outersuburbs, in that a lot of people
travel into Sioux Falls to geta lot of their big shopping done
, because they have like a bigmall there and but it's, it's
still really safe place to live.
And you want a like, if youwant the big city feel without
living in a big city, siouxFalls is the way to go because
(16:56):
you can live, like I said, inthe suburbs and benefit from the
big city feel without living inthe middle of the big city.
So I just wanted to give ashout out to Sioux Falls for
that reason.
What really struck me was thedifferent ways that these places
were finding of growing, and alot of them do rely on
(17:16):
immigrants, so that was reallyimportant.
They also rely a lot on artArtists that fall in love with
these places and want to keepcreating their art there, and
they find ways to make the citybeautiful.
Art matters I just want to sayart matters, so there's that,
(17:36):
and not just like visual artists, but like there's the people
who are finding theaterproductions or dance productions
to bring culture to these townsare also very important.
So obviously those are thingsthat really speak to me.
And the other thing that reallyspoke to me was the libraries
(17:57):
how much libraries are importantto these towns, and I am a huge
advocate for libraries.
I'm about to get my soapbox andtalk about libraries, because
they are so.
They provide so many greatservices and it is so.
They are so important tocommunities, and it makes me sad
(18:18):
that people don't realize howvital libraries are to keep a
community going.
A lot of people are like Idon't read, so why do I care
about the library?
Because libraries offer allsorts of resources, whether you
realize it or not.
They are here in New York City.
They are cooling centers.
(18:39):
So if in the summer our summersare so unbearable sometimes and
some people don't have airconditioners.
You can go to the library andcool down and just sit there.
And you don't have airconditioners, you can go to the
library and cool down and justsit there and you don't need to
have a reason for being thereother than to cool down.
I mean, you can sit there andread if you want to, but if you
just want to sit there, you can.
(18:59):
They provide computers and Wi-Fito people who don't have those
things.
I don't remember which townthey were talking about, but
there is a town that is verymuch aware that people that
don't have Wi-Fi go to thelibrary to use the Wi-Fi and so,
instead of shutting down theirWi-Fi at the end of the like,
(19:22):
the library's closed for the day.
Instead of shutting down theirWi-Fi the way other places do,
they keep it on.
And the Fallows came acrossstudents who needed the internet
to do their homework, sittingoutside the library on computers
or on their phones, doinghomework using the library's
Wi-Fi.
So it provides services likethat.
(19:44):
There's arts and crafts for kidsand teenagers.
There's arts and crafts forkids and teenagers.
There's my library, by myapartment, has a manga club for
teens.
These are all ways to get teensout of the street and providing
them a safe space and communityto make friends and not get
into trouble.
There's free films that areshown there.
(20:07):
There are language classes,there are business classes.
There are also computer classesfor people that don't know how
to use a computer.
There are so many things.
In New York City we have the NewYork Public Library of
Performing Arts and you can rentout a self-tape through them, a
(20:28):
self-tape kit through them.
So there are a lot of actorshere.
Being an actor is expensive.
If you don't have the money togo out and buy everything you
need to film a self-tape for anaudition, you can go to the
library and check it out forfree.
Like this is incredible.
There's a library in a differenttown, mentioned in the book,
that provides gardening toolsand you can borrow seeds.
(20:50):
And you might be wondering howdo you borrow seeds if you're
planting them, just like I waswondering.
Well, you borrow the seeds, youplant them and all they ask is
when your crop grows in.
Just get a few seeds from yourcrop and give it back to the
library so someone else canplant something Different,
(21:11):
things like that.
So I'm a huge, huge advocate forlibraries, and it's not just
because I spent so manySaturdays of my childhood going
to the library and being read toby librarians and participating
in all sorts of things, butthey are just so important and
people really truly don'tunderstand how important and
vital they are for all sorts ofdifferent reasons.
(21:32):
And even if you're like I don'tneed, I don't have any reason
to go to the library, likewhatsoever, you say that now,
but I'm sure something might popup in which you might end up
having to go to the library.
But let's say you're just,you're just really like why I
don't?
I have have no reason, I don'tgo to library ever.
You can still support thembecause maybe you don't need
(21:53):
them but someone in yourcommunity does and it is so easy
to support them.
If you're like, you can alwaysadvocate for them.
My, the New York Public Library, every year has a campaign
where you write letters to themayor, and this is, of course,
every time the fiscal budget iscoming up.
Libraries are always on thechopping block for those things.
(22:14):
Thankfully, they were operatingunder limited hours and, thanks
to people really advocating forthem, this year they have been
able to expand their hours again, so they're open longer and
available for more people.
Now and I'm talking about theNew York Public Library
specifically Queens and Brooklynhave their own public library
systems, but I'm sure it's thesame thing for them.
(22:36):
Every time I move to a new city,the first thing I try to get is
a library card, and that is theeasiest way to support your
local library, even if you'relike I'm never going to go, I'm
never going to use this librarycard.
The more people that are signedup, more they can say look at
all these people that use thelibrary.
It helps.
It's so easy to just sign up.
It's free.
(22:56):
It's literally free to sign upfor a library card.
So I know I went, I rambled onfor a really really long time
about libraries, but I'm just sopassionate about them and this
book just really reallyhighlights why libraries are so
important.
And yes, that's all I'm goingto say.
The book and the documentaryalso touch upon high schools
different high schools that havepopped up, whether it be a high
(23:20):
school that's focused onbusiness or a high school that
it's kind of it's technicallystill considered a high school
but it's kind of like a tradeschool at the same time.
So by the time you graduate,you have a license ready to go.
Like, I know my, my high schoolwas a regular high school, but
we did have certain classes likethat.
(23:41):
So like our cosmetology class,if you took cosmetology, by the
time you graduated, yougraduated with a cosmetology
license.
Same thing with, like, ourautomotive class and our
carpentry and electricity class.
So it's it's kind of like that,except it's it's not a normal
high school Like.
These are specifically liketrade high schools and these are
(24:05):
more for students who maybejust aren't doing well in a
normal high school setting andthey need for, whether they're
for whatever reason, just thenormal high school setting isn't
working for them.
A lot of them thrive and likethese trade high schools because
they know that they're going togo straight into the job market
, because a lot of these highschools also help them find jobs
(24:26):
at the end of it.
So, yeah, so there's differentthings like that that the book
and the documentary really focuson.
As I said, immigrants areanother one.
Immigrants are important,whether we want to.
I'm not going to get intodetails about I'm aware that
there is like a crisis right nowand I'm not.
(24:47):
I'm aware and that does need tobe solved and I don't have the
answers for how to solve it, butwe also can't just pretend that
they're not vital to theeconomy and whatever.
So, yeah, so those are likejust the different things that
really stood out to me and aboutthis book and and this
documentary.
And yeah, I wasn't really surehow I was going to talk about
(25:08):
this episode because, like Isaid, there isn't really much to
compare and contrast mycritiques for both.
I do have some critiques forboth.
I do wish that, since the film,since the documentary came out
in, it was started to it cameout in 2021, but it was they
began filming it in 2018.
I wish they kind of they hadkind of touched upon how
(25:32):
President Trump's first term waskind of affecting them, whether
it be good or bad, just just tosee Because, like I said, the
book really focused on the preTrump era and anytime there's a
change in president, it's goingto affect towns for better or
for worse.
So I kind of wish that and theymight have touched upon it
(25:52):
briefly, but it wasn't anythingthat like.
I wish it had gone more indepth.
I really don't remember thembringing it up at all, so like,
if it was brought up, it was sosmall that I don't even remember
them talking about it.
So I kind of just wish we hadgotten that, because they kind
of start, like I said, since,like the campaigning for Trump
was like at its highest in 2016,before he got elected the first
(26:16):
time I just would have wantedand it didn't really touch upon
other than that, one city inKentucky talking about, like his
words mean nothing here wedon't notice what he's saying,
which is kind of like verynon-answer, and I understand why
.
Maybe they don't want to sayanything, but it also wasn't
explored further and I wish ithad been.
So that's my complaint in thatsense.
(26:37):
In terms of the book and thefilm and I will say the book, I
wish it had touched upon somethings a little bit more.
It was a very overalloptimistic view of these cities
and these towns and it waslovely.
But I don't know, I feel like Idon't think that every single
(26:58):
town mentioned would have beenthriving or didn't have more
struggles than were mentioned,and maybe they all,
coincidentally, really didn't,but I don't know.
There was certain things thatfelt a little disjointed or a
little like ideas were broughtup, but they were not all fully
fleshed out, things like that,so I wish that certain aspects
of the book had gotten into moredetail about those things.
(27:20):
So, that being said, I ratedthe film 3.5 stars and I rated
the book three stars.
So the winner is thedocumentary.
Rated the book three stars, sothe winner is the Documentary.
Yes, I really enjoyed the.
What I really liked about thebook was that it focused on more
than just eight cities.
Like I said, the Documentaryjust focuses on eight cities, so
(27:41):
I loved that the book featureda lot more, a wide variety of
cities and, yeah, and I reallyenjoyed getting glimpses of
these different places and howthey're growing and what ideas
they're coming up with and howvastly different they're.
Choosing different towns.
Some towns decided to focusmore on the arts and culture to
(28:02):
bring in more revenue andvisitors.
Some places focused more ontechnological advancements and
trying to become more of atechnological hub.
Some places focused more oneducation.
Some focused more on justreally really pushing for the
growth of their local businesses.
(28:22):
I mean, all of them are pushingfor local businesses, but each
one was focused on somethingcompletely different and they
were finding ways to thrive uponthat and, mind you, there were
like different.
Like I said, they were findingways to thrive upon that.
And, mind you, there were likedifferent.
Like I said, they all did wantto focus on local businesses.
They all did have like an artsand culture section, but
everyone focused on somethingdifferent and tried to grow
their town and revitalize theirtown in different ways.
(28:44):
So I really enjoyed all thosedifferent aspects.
That being said, I do wishcertain things were fleshed out
more.
I wish the book was a littlebit more cohesive.
In some ways, there weredefinitely points in which we
would jump from one thought so,since it was written by James
and Debra, some sections wouldbe written by James, some
sections would be written byDebra, and so sometimes their
(29:06):
thoughts were completely relatedto each other and sometimes
they were completely differentfrom each other, and so I kind
of wish that there was a littlebit more cohesion in that sense.
What I really enjoyed about thedocumentary was that it focused
on just those eight towns, andeach of those eight towns
touched upon the differentthings that I talked about.
So, as I said, like Sioux Fallsreally focused on the immigrant
(29:28):
population, one of the othertowns I don't remember which one
, but really focused on thelibrary system they had there.
So each town featured in thedocumentary was also kind of
just like focused on differentthings and they also got to go a
little bit more in depth thanthe book did in some ways.
So I really enjoyed that.
(29:48):
I thought they were bothinteresting and engaging.
What I really I think it's a Ido recommend both.
The documentary does win justbecause it's a 90 minute.
It's like the 90 minuteSparknotes version of the book
and I think that's really allyou need to get the idea of the
(30:09):
thesis of the book.
But if you are interested inlearning more about different
towns than the ones focused onthe documentary, then definitely
check out the book.
You can also check out JamesFallows' writings on the
Atlantic.
He has a lot of differentarticles that focus on cities
that are not talked about in thedocumentary or the book.
(30:31):
He has, like, differentarticles talking about like he
has articles talking about LosAngeles, duluth, minnesota,
boston, mass, washington DC,different, just different cities
that were not talked about inthe book.
So you can also check that outon theatlanticcom and check out
some of his writing if you wantmore of an inside look into
(30:54):
different American cities andhow they are growing and
revitalizing.
So that is it for this episodeof Books vs Movies.
I know it was a little bitdifferent, but hopefully you
still liked it.
And if you liked this episode,please leave it a rating and a
review and tell all your friendsabout this podcast.
Thank you so much and I willsee you next time.
Bye.
Welcome to Books vs Movies, the podcast where I set
out to answer the age-oldquestion is the book really
always better than the movie?
I'm Yuvia, an actress and booklover based out of New York City
, and today I will be discussingOur Towns A 100,000 Mile
Journey into the Heart ofAmerica by James and Deborah
Fallows and its 2021 adaptation,our Towns, streaming on HBO Max
(00:26):
.
So hello everyone.
I don't think this will be avery long episode.
I could be wrong, but thereisn't much to discuss in terms
of differences for this, becausethis is a nonfiction book and
its adaptation isn't really anadaptation.
They're calling it that.
(00:48):
I mean, like the filmmakersthemselves are calling it that.
They're saying like it's basedon the book.
So technically it is anadaptation, but I like to think
of it more of an accompaniment,since it is actually a
documentary.
So, unlike Nomadland, which isa non-fiction journalistic book
(01:08):
and then took an original storybased on that and made it into a
film, this is actually adocumentary that you can watch
in lieu of the book or, afteryou read the book, watch the
film to get kind of a miniupdate.
So I will go get more into that, but first and foremost, I do
(01:29):
want to talk about a not sohappy El Paso shout out.
So this not so happy El Pasoshout out is courtesy of On
Earth we're Briefly Gorgeous byOcean Vuong, and this was meant
to be included in theUnderground Railroad episode.
But by the time I actuallyfinished On Earth we're Briefly
(01:51):
Gorgeous before I had evenfinished Underground Railroad,
and so I was like I do want toinclude this, but I'm not even
done with the book.
I don't even know what.
At that point I didn't evenknow what my next podcast
episode was going to be.
So I turned in On Earth we'reBriefly Gorgeous and I didn't
include it in the episode, eventhough I do want to keep
(02:12):
shouting out El Paso whenever Isee it, even if it's a
not-so-happy shout out liketoday's shout out.
So I turned in the book.
So what I'm going to talk aboutwas mentioned in On Earth we're
Briefly Gorgeous, but obviouslyit's not going to be the actual
passage that I'm reading from.
As I've done in previous ones,in this one I'm more going to
(02:32):
talk about the subject of theNot so Happy El Paso Shout Out,
because I do think it isimportant and I got reminded of
it and the reason I decided.
You know what this seems to bea sign that I need to include it
is.
I was listening to the March 9thepisode of NPR's the Sunday
Story, and the story that it wasfocusing primarily on that day
(02:53):
was birthright citizenship, andit was mainly focusing on the
story of Wong Kim Ark, who is aUnited States citizen, but he
had to fight for that right tobe called that.
So he's the reason we havebirthright citizenship to this
day.
So Wong Kim Ark was born in theUnited States to Chinese
(03:17):
parents and during the ChineseExclusion Act when that all came
about, he was in China visitingfamily, and when he tried to
return to the United States hewas denied entry because of the
Chinese Exclusion Act, and so hefought for his right to remain
in the country, as he wasvisiting family in China.
(03:40):
But he grew up, he was born,raised, and the United States is
what he knew.
This was his home.
So that is the landmark rulingthat led to the amendment saying
that anyone born on US soil isan American citizen.
So the not-so-happy El Pasoshout-out comes from.
(04:01):
It was mentioned in On Earth.
We're Briefly Gorgeous.
But to go into more detailabout what happened, is that in
1901, so at this point in 1901,it had been four years since
Wong Kim Ark had won his courtcase and it was determined that
he was a US citizen.
(04:21):
And so, in 1901, he crossedfrom Juarez into El Paso and,
due to the Chinese Exclusion Act, he was arrested and
deportation proceedings werestarted against him.
He literally has a court casenamed after him in the Supreme
Court and he was alreadydetermined four years prior,
(04:44):
given the right as a US citizen.
Immigration officials in ElPaso still tried to deport him,
saying that he was in violationof the Chinese Exclusion Act.
It took four months after thisarrest for Wang to win a ruling
again saying that he was aUnited States citizen and that
(05:05):
he was not in violation of theChinese Exclusion Act and
therefore could not be deported.
Again, this happened four yearsafter the Supreme Court ruling.
So I, being from El Paso, I hadno idea.
I mean, I'm going to be honest,I didn't even know Wong Kim
Ark's name before the Sundaystory.
(05:27):
And yeah, it's one of those.
There's things I've learned notso happy things I've learned
about El Paso and how that hasshaped certain things throughout
history.
I'm not going to get into thosedetails in this episode, but
yeah, I'm just surprised that Ihadn't heard about that
particular aspect of El Pasohistory, and so that was the
(05:51):
premise of the Not so Happy ElPaso shout out.
And actually I'm kind of gladthat I didn't bring the Not so
Happy El Paso shout out to theUnderground Railroad just by
reading the passage, because nowI was able to go into a little
bit more detail about Won KimArk and his story and how El
(06:12):
Paso played into his story,sadly.
But that is that, so let's goahead and get into the actual
episode.
So Our Towns by James andDeborah Fallows was first
published in 2018.
And James and Deborah Fallowstraveled all over the United
(06:33):
States for five years in theirlittle airplane and the majority
of this book for four of thosefive years.
It takes place in 2013, 14, 15,and 16.
So all of these things happenedpre-Trump first go-around as
president.
But, yeah, they visited lots ofdifferent towns and they met
(06:55):
with different civic leaders andenvironmentalists, artists,
public servants, librarians,business people, city planners,
students and entrepreneurs tofind out what these cities who
are not as well-known or hardlyever make national news or are
(07:17):
even on people's radars, andfind out what they're doing to
fix the problems in those towns.
The people they interviewedtalked about the problems within
their town, whether that bejust different economic issues a
lot of people left because aplant shut down and so there
wasn't as much revenue coming inor whether that be opioid kind
(07:40):
of issue just different thingsthat every one of these cities
was facing, as well as whatsolutions they're coming up with
to fix these problems.
So, yes, it mainly focuses onthe different problems these
towns had and the ways that theywere trying to fix their towns
and revitalize them and reallyget them growing and back to a
(08:04):
place where it's a place theycould be proud of.
And a lot of these people, justlike I, have a lot of pride in
my hometown and will advocatefor it endlessly in so many ways
.
Doesn't mean it's perfect, as Ijust mentioned in the dark
piece of its history, but Istill have a lot of pride for it
.
And so there's still people inthese towns that you know an
(08:25):
outsider looking in might saythis place is a dump.
These people have a lot ofpride in their hometown and want
to see it revitalized and growinto a place that other people
can see the charm of it as well.
So Our Towns.
The documentary is from 2021,and it shows how different small
(08:48):
cities and towns across thecountry are reinventing
themselves economically, and thedesire to change for the better
can help people and the townsthat they live in find a
(09:12):
different path to the future.
So, yeah, it's just one ofthose things, again, that it's a
little bit hard to compare andcontrast because they're more
complementary of each other.
So you can read the book andlearn a lot about it, about
these different towns, and thenwatch the documentary to kind of
(09:33):
supplement what you just readabout in the book.
So I do want to talk a littlebit about how this project came
about.
So, James Fallows is ajournalist.
He writes for the Atlantic andin 2011, he asked his.
Well, I'm focusing on James.
I honestly don't know ifDeborah is also a journalist,
(09:56):
but I know that James is ajournalist who writes for the
Atlantic.
So I'm focusing on James.
But it could be like a jointproject from the beginning, the
way this book is.
But, yes, he started this blogpost asking readers to share
stories about their town andwhether that be things that
they're struggling with, anysetbacks the town is facing, any
(10:18):
achievements they want tohighlight and these again are
cities and towns that are oftenoverlooked by the media.
You're not really going to findthem anywhere in the national
newspapers or news shows talkingabout them, unless there was a
national disaster or a massshooting, anything like that.
That's usually what brings themup to the spotlight, but
(10:40):
otherwise they're largelyignored.
And they received over 1,000responses and that prompted them
to want to travel all aroundthe United States and actually
get interviewed different peoplethat live in these cities and
find out how these cities arefinding ways to grow and bring
in that economic revenue to fixthe issues that they might be
(11:04):
facing.
So this, as I said, this tookplace in over five years and the
book focuses on 2013 through2016.
And on the inside cover of thebooks there'll be a map that
shows which towns and citiesthey visited in and they'll be
highlighted in a different colordepending on what year they
went.
In 2018, they were joined bytwo documentary filmmakers, and
(11:30):
I don't remember exactly howmany cities, and I want to say
there was maybe 20 cities, 20towns that the book focuses on.
Well, in 2018, the documentaryfilming two documentary
filmmakers joined the Fallows torevisit eight of those cities
for the purpose of thisdocumentary.
So the book, as I said, hasabout 20 towns.
(11:52):
The documentary focuses on SanBernardino, california, sioux
Falls, south Dakota, columbus,mississippi, east Port Maine,
charleston, west Virginia andBend, oregon, and the film kind
of like the book has interviewswith civic leaders, immigrants,
educators, environmentalists,artists, students, just talking
(12:14):
about their love for their townand ways that they're finding to
improve them.
So it's really interestingbecause the book focuses on the
before Trump era and then thefilm focuses on the pre-pandemic
era, so I'm really curious tosee how all of those were
(12:35):
affected by both of those things.
Obviously, we take anothervisit to talk about how the
pandemic may have affected theseplaces, but one of the cities
that's talked about is inKentucky and the people in a
particular town in Kentucky arevery much aware that that city
(12:56):
would die, it would just ceaseto exist without all the
immigrants.
This is a heavily Latinximmigrant population and the
people that live there are verymuch aware that this town would
cease to exist without theimmigrants that live there,
because no one else wants towork at the place that's
(13:18):
bringing in the most jobs andincome revenue without, like,
the immigrants are willing totake on that job and the people
that the non-immigrants are notwilling to work there, and so
they.
This was a place in Kentuckythat they visited in 2016.
So at this point, trump hadalready started some of his
(13:38):
rhetoric.
You know, they're bringingrapists, they're bringing their
criminals that whole rhetoricand so it was interesting to
hear the people that live theretalk about it and they,
according to them, that rhetoricwas not, um, they were not,
that they hadn't heard that,because they had, but it was
more of just like this, doesn't?
(14:00):
It was basically like we don'tsee color kind of issue, like a
answer where it was like, yeah,he's saying that, but I don't,
it's not, it's not going toaffect us here.
Um, we don't think it's goingto affect us here.
So, uh, I'm just really curioushow you know, uh, and the film
doesn't really talk about that,but, mind you, the Kentucky city
(14:21):
that I'm talking about wasn'tone of the ones revisited for
the documentary, but anyway,yeah, so there's that, and I
will say that I really enjoyedso, yeah, so it was really
interesting getting to see thedifferent insights into these
towns and what they're doing toimprove themselves and the
(14:44):
problems they see and how theywant to fix them for the future
and continue growing andexpanding upon that city.
And I will say there wassomething about Sioux Falls,
south Dakota, that I justabsolutely fell in love with,
even while I watched thedocumentary before I read the
book and even after reading thebook, I was like I've obviously
(15:06):
never been to Sioux Falls, southDakota.
I've never been to South Dakotalet's start there but something
about the way it was portrayedin the film and the way it was
written about in the book, I waslike I can see myself living
there and it is another placethat is heavily, that is, very
immigrant heavy.
A lot of the people that livethere are immigrants and there's
(15:28):
the things that they focus onare the unemployment centers and
how they have so many peoplethat speak different languages
working at these unemploymentcenters so that they can help
all these people who maybe don'tspeak English find jobs
somewhere in Sioux Falls.
And I don't know somethingabout that, even like there was
a lot of places that are veryimmigrant heavy.
(15:49):
But there was something aboutSioux Falls and I don't know
something about that, even likethere was a lot of places that
are very immigrant heavy, butthere was something about Sioux
Falls, south Dakota that justmade me be like I wouldn't mind
living there.
But I don't know, maybe I'llactually visit that place and
I'll completely disagree.
But yeah, sioux Falls is one ofthose places that really
benefits from the fact that it'sa big.
(16:09):
It's a big small town, if thatmakes sense.
Sioux Falls is still relativelysmall compared to, like, the
big cities that you think ofwhen you think of the United
States.
So it's, it's still a city, butit's on the smaller side, and a
lot of the people that go toSioux Falls actually live in the
outer suburbs and so the outersuburbs benefit from Sioux Falls
(16:33):
benefits from these outersuburbs, in that a lot of people
travel into Sioux Falls to geta lot of their big shopping done
, because they have like a bigmall there and but it's, it's
still really safe place to live.
And you want a like, if youwant the big city feel without
living in a big city, siouxFalls is the way to go because
(16:56):
you can live, like I said, inthe suburbs and benefit from the
big city feel without living inthe middle of the big city.
So I just wanted to give ashout out to Sioux Falls for
that reason.
What really struck me was thedifferent ways that these places
were finding of growing, and alot of them do rely on
(17:16):
immigrants, so that was reallyimportant.
They also rely a lot on artArtists that fall in love with
these places and want to keepcreating their art there, and
they find ways to make the citybeautiful.
Art matters I just want to sayart matters, so there's that,
(17:36):
and not just like visual artists, but like there's the people
who are finding theaterproductions or dance productions
to bring culture to these townsare also very important.
So obviously those are thingsthat really speak to me.
And the other thing that reallyspoke to me was the libraries
(17:57):
how much libraries are importantto these towns, and I am a huge
advocate for libraries.
I'm about to get my soapbox andtalk about libraries, because
they are so.
They provide so many greatservices and it is so.
They are so important tocommunities, and it makes me sad
(18:18):
that people don't realize howvital libraries are to keep a
community going.
A lot of people are like Idon't read, so why do I care
about the library?
Because libraries offer allsorts of resources, whether you
realize it or not.
They are here in New York City.
They are cooling centers.
(18:39):
So if in the summer our summersare so unbearable sometimes and
some people don't have airconditioners.
You can go to the library andcool down and just sit there.
And you don't have airconditioners, you can go to the
library and cool down and justsit there and you don't need to
have a reason for being thereother than to cool down.
I mean, you can sit there andread if you want to, but if you
just want to sit there, you can.
(18:59):
They provide computers and Wi-Fito people who don't have those
things.
I don't remember which townthey were talking about, but
there is a town that is verymuch aware that people that
don't have Wi-Fi go to thelibrary to use the Wi-Fi and so,
instead of shutting down theirWi-Fi at the end of the like,
(19:22):
the library's closed for the day.
Instead of shutting down theirWi-Fi the way other places do,
they keep it on.
And the Fallows came acrossstudents who needed the internet
to do their homework, sittingoutside the library on computers
or on their phones, doinghomework using the library's
Wi-Fi.
So it provides services likethat.
(19:44):
There's arts and crafts for kidsand teenagers.
There's arts and crafts forkids and teenagers.
There's my library, by myapartment, has a manga club for
teens.
These are all ways to get teensout of the street and providing
them a safe space and communityto make friends and not get
into trouble.
There's free films that areshown there.
(20:07):
There are language classes,there are business classes.
There are also computer classesfor people that don't know how
to use a computer.
There are so many things.
In New York City we have the NewYork Public Library of
Performing Arts and you can rentout a self-tape through them, a
(20:28):
self-tape kit through them.
So there are a lot of actorshere.
Being an actor is expensive.
If you don't have the money togo out and buy everything you
need to film a self-tape for anaudition, you can go to the
library and check it out forfree.
Like this is incredible.
There's a library in a differenttown, mentioned in the book,
that provides gardening toolsand you can borrow seeds.
(20:50):
And you might be wondering howdo you borrow seeds if you're
planting them, just like I waswondering.
Well, you borrow the seeds, youplant them and all they ask is
when your crop grows in.
Just get a few seeds from yourcrop and give it back to the
library so someone else canplant something Different,
(21:11):
things like that.
So I'm a huge, huge advocate forlibraries, and it's not just
because I spent so manySaturdays of my childhood going
to the library and being read toby librarians and participating
in all sorts of things, butthey are just so important and
people really truly don'tunderstand how important and
vital they are for all sorts ofdifferent reasons.
(21:32):
And even if you're like I don'tneed, I don't have any reason
to go to the library, likewhatsoever, you say that now,
but I'm sure something might popup in which you might end up
having to go to the library.
But let's say you're just,you're just really like why I
don't?
I have have no reason, I don'tgo to library ever.
You can still support thembecause maybe you don't need
(21:53):
them but someone in yourcommunity does and it is so easy
to support them.
If you're like, you can alwaysadvocate for them.
My, the New York Public Library, every year has a campaign
where you write letters to themayor, and this is, of course,
every time the fiscal budget iscoming up.
Libraries are always on thechopping block for those things.
(22:14):
Thankfully, they were operatingunder limited hours and, thanks
to people really advocating forthem, this year they have been
able to expand their hours again, so they're open longer and
available for more people.
Now and I'm talking about theNew York Public Library
specifically Queens and Brooklynhave their own public library
systems, but I'm sure it's thesame thing for them.
(22:36):
Every time I move to a new city,the first thing I try to get is
a library card, and that is theeasiest way to support your
local library, even if you'relike I'm never going to go, I'm
never going to use this librarycard.
The more people that are signedup, more they can say look at
all these people that use thelibrary.
It helps.
It's so easy to just sign up.
It's free.
(22:56):
It's literally free to sign upfor a library card.
So I know I went, I rambled onfor a really really long time
about libraries, but I'm just sopassionate about them and this
book just really reallyhighlights why libraries are so
important.
And yes, that's all I'm goingto say.
The book and the documentaryalso touch upon high schools
different high schools that havepopped up, whether it be a high
(23:20):
school that's focused onbusiness or a high school that
it's kind of it's technicallystill considered a high school
but it's kind of like a tradeschool at the same time.
So by the time you graduate,you have a license ready to go.
Like, I know my, my high schoolwas a regular high school, but
we did have certain classes likethat.
(23:41):
So like our cosmetology class,if you took cosmetology, by the
time you graduated, yougraduated with a cosmetology
license.
Same thing with, like, ourautomotive class and our
carpentry and electricity class.
So it's it's kind of like that,except it's it's not a normal
high school Like.
These are specifically liketrade high schools and these are
(24:05):
more for students who maybejust aren't doing well in a
normal high school setting andthey need for, whether they're
for whatever reason, just thenormal high school setting isn't
working for them.
A lot of them thrive and likethese trade high schools because
they know that they're going togo straight into the job market
, because a lot of these highschools also help them find jobs
(24:26):
at the end of it.
So, yeah, so there's differentthings like that that the book
and the documentary really focuson.
As I said, immigrants areanother one.
Immigrants are important,whether we want to.
I'm not going to get intodetails about I'm aware that
there is like a crisis right nowand I'm not.
(24:47):
I'm aware and that does need tobe solved and I don't have the
answers for how to solve it, butwe also can't just pretend that
they're not vital to theeconomy and whatever.
So, yeah, so those are likejust the different things that
really stood out to me and aboutthis book and and this
documentary.
And yeah, I wasn't really surehow I was going to talk about
(25:08):
this episode because, like Isaid, there isn't really much to
compare and contrast mycritiques for both.
I do have some critiques forboth.
I do wish that, since the film,since the documentary came out
in, it was started to it cameout in 2021, but it was they
began filming it in 2018.
I wish they kind of they hadkind of touched upon how
(25:32):
President Trump's first term waskind of affecting them, whether
it be good or bad, just just tosee Because, like I said, the
book really focused on the preTrump era and anytime there's a
change in president, it's goingto affect towns for better or
for worse.
So I kind of wish that and theymight have touched upon it
(25:52):
briefly, but it wasn't anythingthat like.
I wish it had gone more indepth.
I really don't remember thembringing it up at all, so like,
if it was brought up, it was sosmall that I don't even remember
them talking about it.
So I kind of just wish we hadgotten that, because they kind
of start, like I said, since,like the campaigning for Trump
was like at its highest in 2016,before he got elected the first
(26:16):
time I just would have wantedand it didn't really touch upon
other than that, one city inKentucky talking about, like his
words mean nothing here wedon't notice what he's saying,
which is kind of like verynon-answer, and I understand why
.
Maybe they don't want to sayanything, but it also wasn't
explored further and I wish ithad been.
So that's my complaint in thatsense.
(26:37):
In terms of the book and thefilm and I will say the book, I
wish it had touched upon somethings a little bit more.
It was a very overalloptimistic view of these cities
and these towns and it waslovely.
But I don't know, I feel like Idon't think that every single
(26:58):
town mentioned would have beenthriving or didn't have more
struggles than were mentioned,and maybe they all,
coincidentally, really didn't,but I don't know.
There was certain things thatfelt a little disjointed or a
little like ideas were broughtup, but they were not all fully
fleshed out, things like that,so I wish that certain aspects
of the book had gotten into moredetail about those things.
(27:20):
So, that being said, I ratedthe film 3.5 stars and I rated
the book three stars.
So the winner is thedocumentary.
Rated the book three stars, sothe winner is the Documentary.
Yes, I really enjoyed the.
What I really liked about thebook was that it focused on more
than just eight cities.
Like I said, the Documentaryjust focuses on eight cities, so
(27:41):
I loved that the book featureda lot more, a wide variety of
cities and, yeah, and I reallyenjoyed getting glimpses of
these different places and howthey're growing and what ideas
they're coming up with and howvastly different they're.
Choosing different towns.
Some towns decided to focusmore on the arts and culture to
(28:02):
bring in more revenue andvisitors.
Some places focused more ontechnological advancements and
trying to become more of atechnological hub.
Some places focused more oneducation.
Some focused more on justreally really pushing for the
growth of their local businesses.
(28:22):
I mean, all of them are pushingfor local businesses, but each
one was focused on somethingcompletely different and they
were finding ways to thrive uponthat and, mind you, there were
like different.
Like I said, they were findingways to thrive upon that.
And, mind you, there were likedifferent.
Like I said, they all did wantto focus on local businesses.
They all did have like an artsand culture section, but
everyone focused on somethingdifferent and tried to grow
their town and revitalize theirtown in different ways.
(28:44):
So I really enjoyed all thosedifferent aspects.
That being said, I do wishcertain things were fleshed out
more.
I wish the book was a littlebit more cohesive.
In some ways, there weredefinitely points in which we
would jump from one thought so,since it was written by James
and Debra, some sections wouldbe written by James, some
sections would be written byDebra, and so sometimes their
(29:06):
thoughts were completely relatedto each other and sometimes
they were completely differentfrom each other, and so I kind
of wish that there was a littlebit more cohesion in that sense.
What I really enjoyed about thedocumentary was that it focused
on just those eight towns, andeach of those eight towns
touched upon the differentthings that I talked about.
So, as I said, like Sioux Fallsreally focused on the immigrant
(29:28):
population, one of the othertowns I don't remember which one
, but really focused on thelibrary system they had there.
So each town featured in thedocumentary was also kind of
just like focused on differentthings and they also got to go a
little bit more in depth thanthe book did in some ways.
So I really enjoyed that.
(29:48):
I thought they were bothinteresting and engaging.
What I really I think it's a Ido recommend both.
The documentary does win justbecause it's a 90 minute.
It's like the 90 minuteSparknotes version of the book
and I think that's really allyou need to get the idea of the
(30:09):
thesis of the book.
But if you are interested inlearning more about different
towns than the ones focused onthe documentary, then definitely
check out the book.
You can also check out JamesFallows' writings on the
Atlantic.
He has a lot of differentarticles that focus on cities
that are not talked about in thedocumentary or the book.
(30:31):
He has, like, differentarticles talking about like he
has articles talking about LosAngeles, duluth, minnesota,
boston, mass, washington DC,different, just different cities
that were not talked about inthe book.
So you can also check that outon theatlanticcom and check out
some of his writing if you wantmore of an inside look into
(30:54):
different American cities andhow they are growing and
revitalizing.
So that is it for this episodeof Books vs Movies.
I know it was a little bitdifferent, but hopefully you
still liked it.
And if you liked this episode,please leave it a rating and a
review and tell all your friendsabout this podcast.
Thank you so much and I willsee you next time.
Bye.
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