November 12, 2025 • 53 mins
The blue Fugates of Kentucky were a family like none other. Donning either pale white or blue skin, this Appalachian family stood out.
Listen as we walk through the Fugate family line, dispelling untruths, and telling the whole story.
Sources:
Howstuffworks.com, DNAexplained.com, Historycollection.com, Blue People of Troublesome Creek, Ancestral Findings, MCMSNJ.net , More DNA stuff
E-Mail the show at BorrowedBonesPodcast@proton.me
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
Hello, everyone.
SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
Hello.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
I'm Sarah.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
I'm Cole.
SPEAKER_00 (00:18):
And you are listening to Borrowed Bones, a
podcast about fucked up,interesting, and toxic families.
Today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
Who are we talking about today?
SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
We are talking about the Blue Fugates of Kentucky.
SPEAKER_01 (00:32):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_00 (00:32):
The Fugate family.
SPEAKER_01 (00:35):
I know a little bit about them.
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
Just because of Ooh, what do you know?
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
I know they're the Blue Fugate family from West
Virginia.
Appalachia.
Kentucky.
Kentucky.
Oh, you just said Kentucky.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
Sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Appalachia, whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
You drank like two bottles of wine last night, so
whatever.
It'll be fun today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
Yeah.
I just know they're blue people.
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
Yes.
Yes, they are.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Really blue skinned.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Yes.
And I wasn't sure if I wanted todo this one or not because I
thought that it had been done todeath, and I thought that
everyone knew about this and itwas pretty commonplace.
Um, no, they don't.
I realize not many.
I mean, I think there is a largepopulation that does know about
them, but there's a lot ofpeople that don't.
Yeah.
And also with my research, Idiscovered new information about
(01:22):
them.
So the story that I knew isactually a little wrong.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
So let's get into it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
Yeah.
Let's do it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Mm-hmm.
So the story goes that in 1820,Martin Fugate, an orphan from
France, came to America.
And he came over because theAmerican government at the time
was offering people free land ifthey settled it and farmed it.
This, to me, I got confused.
This is not the Homestead Act of1862.
(01:53):
I was like, this is alreadywrong.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Or during Civil War.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
Um, and I thought maybe that was it.
And I was like, well, we'realready wrong here because 1820
is way too early for that.
But anyway, I looked into thatand the American government did
do something with Appalachiaarea specifically around this
time.
So Martin Fugate came over fromFrance as an orphan in 1820 to
get the freelan.
(02:18):
And he would end up in a hollowor a holler called Troublesome
Creek.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
Troublesome Creek Holler.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Anyone who's not familiar in this area of our
country, there's a lot ofhollows or hollers.
I don't know, little towns.
Yes, yes, Hamlet Village.
Yes, very small, rural,tight-knit communities, like
isolated.
Yeah.
Isolated is the big one here.
In this holler, there are fourother families within
(02:49):
Troublesome Creek.
We have the Smiths, the Richies,the Stacy's, and the Combs.
The Combses, I guess.
Their last name is Combs.
And Martin, Fugate, will marryElizabeth Smith.
So he starts his own littleline, but it is connected to the
Smith family that's alreadythere.
And they would go on to haveseven children.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Martin and Liz.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Martin and Liz, yep.
Four of those children would beblue.
SPEAKER_01 (03:19):
Like they came out blue and never stopped, or they
Yes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
Mm-hmm.
And now there's differenttheories on if Martin was blue
himself or not.
When researching it, I don'tthink he was blue.
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
Okay.
Obviously, this is beforephotographs exist.
There's no photograph of him.
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
It's all a lot of their story is verbal, which is
why it's a little messy and veryor isolated holler.
Yeah.
Holler.
So yes.
So I don't know if Martin wasblue or not.
I am leaning towards no.
So I I'm just assuming thatthese four blue babies were a
surprise, right?
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
Oh, the first one anyway.
Yeah two, three, or four mighthave been like not quite
surprised.
SPEAKER_00 (04:01):
That's true.
Now, this is where we already doget a little bit of the details
mixed up here.
Most people who know the storyhave heard all of this before.
Everything I just said, Martinis an orphan.
He came over in 1820 to get landfrom in the Appalachia area.
In recent years, though, throughlike Ancestry.com, 23andMe, and
(04:21):
people just doing their owndigging, they discovered that
the Fugates were actually inAmerica since like the 1700s.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
He wasn't an orphan.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
He wasn't an orphan from France.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
I I think his family did come from France.
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
Fugate, I would assume.
Yes.
It sounds like a French name.
Yes or a derivative of a Frenchorigin.
SPEAKER_00 (04:40):
But he was not the one that came from France.
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
So he was American by birth.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
Yes.
And they just weren't always inKentucky.
And no one cross-referenced thethe like paperwork.
Everyone was like, well, theFugates are here in Kentucky, in
Perry County, but that's it.
They didn't look from becausethey they moved from like West
Virginia, Virginia, Tennessee,whatever.
You're right.
(05:04):
It wasn't.
But um so the Fugates werearound.
There's a Fugate family'sFacebook page, and I found that.
And that's where I discoveredthat a lot of the descendants
are like, there's little thingswrong here.
Martin was not an orphan, he hadfamily here.
So descendants of the Fugates,I'm here to correct that wrong.
(05:24):
Martin Fugate, the one thatmoved to Kentucky, his second
cousin, Zachariah, also movedand lived in Troublesome Creek,
Kentucky.
Okay.
A lot of people miss that one.
So they have two Fugate familylines starting.
Now back to Martin andElizabeth, who are married,
(05:45):
having children now, the fourblue babies, the rest are white.
So what's happening here?
Why are they having blue babies?
Yeah.
Why is this happening?
Both Martin and Elizabeth carrya recessive hereditary gene that
causes the blue skin.
SPEAKER_01 (06:04):
A mutation.
SPEAKER_00 (06:05):
Yes.
And they both had it.
They weren't.
This is why I don't think Martinwas blue.
Because I don't think either ofthem were displaying it because
you have to have both recessivetraits.
SPEAKER_01 (06:14):
Yeah, they would have not been surprised.
Exactly.
So right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
And I just I'm not sure if Martin could marry
someone in an isolated hauler ifhe was blue.
Like I feel like, but who knows?
But I mean it is isolated.
So I don't know.
Some people say he's blue.
I just don't think he is giventhe genetics and the science of
it all.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
Either way, though, both Martin Fugate and Elizabeth
Smith carry that recessive gene.
SPEAKER_01 (06:39):
And that's been established genetically.
SPEAKER_00 (06:42):
Yes.
They it has to.
Literally, there's no other wayaround it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
Yeah, for about I guess.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
It to create a blue child, they both have to have a
recessive gene.
I'm not a scientist, but we allget what I'm saying here.
Okay, just so we're clear.
I am not scientific at all.
SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
Why blue?
Why like are there other colors?
We'll figure that out.
Could there be green kids?
Maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
It depends.
I'll we'll get there.
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Could there be, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
Well, some of these blue fugates were so dark that
they looked purple.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, you turn purple whenyou're cold.
True.
Yeah.
As these first blue fugates weregrowing up, the family was even
more isolated because no oneliked the blue to be shunned as
local freaks.
SPEAKER_01 (07:25):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (07:26):
And keep it in the circus.
Yes.
Yeah.
And like I mean, the moreisolated an area is, from my
experience, anyway, if I guessI've not looked into studies,
but from my experience, the moreisolated an area, the more
fearsome they are of somethingdifferent.
In a blue-skinned family, that'svery different.
Even with the bluegrass Kentuckyall around, mm-mm.
(07:47):
Not supposed to be skin.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
I've only seen one blue person in my life.
It's it stands out.
SPEAKER_00 (07:54):
You've seen a blue person?
SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
Blue guy around our town.
I don't know if he's aliveanymore, but a few years ago.
He was everyone, everyone knewabout him.
SPEAKER_00 (08:02):
Oh, I didn't know about him.
SPEAKER_01 (08:03):
I don't want to say names or anything, but like, oh
yeah, the blue guy in town.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
Did he eat colloidal silver, whatever it's called?
Did he do the silver thing?
SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
He must have, yeah.
He wasn't as blue as the fugits,but like you noticed him in a
crowd.
You were like, what the fuck'swrong with that guy?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:17):
That's strange.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
He stood out.
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
Gosh.
Yes.
So Troublesome Creek itself as ahauler is very, very isolated.
They didn't have roads for along time.
They didn't even start gettingtrains coming through that area
until the early 1900s.
The name Troublesome Creek isactually because it was such a
trouble to access it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
So it was named basically like it's hard to get
here.
SPEAKER_01 (08:40):
Geographical names back then weren't uh subtle.
They were ex they were justdescriptive.
SPEAKER_00 (08:44):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Broke neck Creek.
Why is it called that?
Someone broke their neck there.
That's why.
Yeah.
They're not literary.
They're just descriptive.
SPEAKER_00 (08:51):
Yep.
This is where you're going.
You're gonna have a hard time.
Deal with it.
Yeah.
You know what you're walkinginto there.
So because of this isolation,there was inbreeding in that
area.
Oh, overall.
Inbreeding.
Yes.
Of course.
SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
Life finds a way.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
Yes.
And this is another detail thata lot of the current descendants
of these families get reallyfrustrated about.
They don't deny the inbreeding,but they say it wasn't as bad as
the story says.
And this is the specific detailthat they talk about.
So you'll see this a lot.
(09:25):
And I had a hard time not seeingit, but there's one story that
goes that Martin and Elizabethhad their children.
One of them is named Zachariah.
This is true.
And he's blue.
This is true.
The story, though, this what I'mabout to say is wrong, is that
Zachariah married his aunt,Elizabeth's sister.
SPEAKER_02 (09:46):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (09:46):
And at first that's kind of believable because maybe
Elizabeth is the top of the lineof her family for siblings, and
there could be a 15 to 20 yearage gap between siblings.
SPEAKER_01 (09:55):
An aunt who's roughly the same age as the
neighborhood.
Zachariah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:58):
Yes.
That was not the case.
When looking at like birthcertificates, like there were a
few birth certificates that werefound, a few things that could
factually be like this is reallyhappening, or this really did
happen.
Um, Elizabeth's aunt that wassaid to have married her nephew
was like 50 years older thanhim.
SPEAKER_01 (10:14):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
So I was like, that that's there's no way that
happened.
SPEAKER_01 (10:17):
There's no and there's no practical purpose.
Purpose of it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
Like, why would you do that?
SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
Childbearing age, why would a younger male like
that?
Why would that even happen?
Why would that happen?
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
Yeah.
And so after looking into itmore, I discovered that the
second cousin that moved withMartin Fuchs.
Yeah, Zachariah.
His name is Zachariah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:38):
There's two Zacharias.
SPEAKER_00 (10:39):
Mm-hmm.
There's two Zacharias.
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
So that's the one that married.
SPEAKER_00 (10:42):
Zachariah, the second cousin, married the
sister of Elizabeth.
SPEAKER_01 (10:46):
Okay.
And they're not blood related,so there's no they're just
legally related.
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
Yeah.
So they weren't like inintensely inbred.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
There should be a little inbreeding at work.
SPEAKER_00 (10:58):
There is a little bit.
Yeah.
There is a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (11:01):
I think you should leave.
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
Oh, there should be.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
You can't have inbreeding at the home.
Okay.
There should be a littleinbreeding at the home.
SPEAKER_00 (11:09):
I forgot that part.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
Well it's the, you know, we can't watch porn at
work.
We should be able to watch alittle porn at work.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Oh.
That's what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
Oh, teaching inbreeding.
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
I don't remember him talking about inbreeding.
Which we have to watch a littleporn.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
You can't watch porn at work.
We should be able to watch alittle porn at work.
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
But yes, the Fugates don't dispute the inbreeding in
general.
They just say it wasn't likemother to son, father to
daughter.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
It was like cousins and second cousins and Which
honestly was common in justAmerica.
Well, rural America at the time.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Everywhere though, too, because this is around the
same time.
Think of Edgar Allan Poe inBaltimore.
He's trying to fuck his niece.
SPEAKER_01 (11:45):
Yeah.
I mean, like Jesse James marriedhis first cousin, who was named
(13:28):
after his mother.
SPEAKER_00 (13:29):
And it was just That's there wasn't even an
issue at the time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:33):
They were first cousins, which is imagine your
wife being named after your mom.
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
It's weird.
But you know how you hear of allthose I'm sidetracking here, but
I just you hear of all thosestories, and you I don't know,
you're not from a big family.
I am.
I have a lot of first cousins.
And growing up, there's alwaysthat weird, like, is my cousin
hitting on me?
You have like one cousin that'skind of like playing with that
boundary, and you're like, isthis a flirting?
(13:59):
What the hell is going on here?
And I've just heard that peoplewith big families, there's
always like one that kind ofnothing like happens, but you
it's like, is there flirting?
Like what's happening here?
You kind of yeah, no, none ofthat.
No, but it yes, there's a reasonthere's that phrase, right?
SPEAKER_01 (14:16):
So I have a small family and my cousins are male.
SPEAKER_00 (14:19):
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
Just never wasn't issues.
SPEAKER_00 (14:21):
Yeah.
No, it's just you yeah, there'sstories between big families and
whatnot.
And so I think that I honestlythink that if it wasn't frowned
upon today, there would be somepeople marrying their cousins
today.
I think they exist.
Don't.
That's not good health-wise.
I think what you have to get tolike your third cousin before
the health risks are no longer athing.
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
Well.
SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
Or is it closer than we want?
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
I mean, state by state in America varies on
incest laws.
SPEAKER_00 (14:48):
I'm talking about health and science.
I'm not talking about legal,okay?
We can't I don't trust America.
First cousins, I'm sure.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
Past like if like the m the woman is past
menopause.
Like there's some that likefirst cousins can marry from
like age like 60 and up orsomething.
unknown (15:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:06):
They're like, why not?
Like you can't who gives a shit?
You're consenting adults andit's gross, but you can't do any
like You're not creating likebad life out of it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
Anyway, yeah.
That was a sidetrack.
But yes, so just to clear theair there, though that those are
the two main things.
Sa Zachariah did not marry hisaunt, and Martin Fugate was not
an orphan.
Okay.
There's a lot of confusionbecause they reused names.
They didn't use Junior, first,second, or third.
It was just Zachariah,Zachariah, Martin, Martin,
(15:35):
Elizabeth, Elizabeth, like allover the place.
So it got confusing.
Now, back to Martin andElizabeth, the ones that are
starting everything here inKentucky.
The news of their blue baby,their first one, spread through
the holler very quickly.
Before he was even a month old,everyone knew about him.
(15:56):
The rest of the people inTroublesome Creek, they would
say things like It's a demon.
There was wickedness in theirblood.
When the Fugates did go tochurch, they were always apart
from the crowd.
There was like pews or rows thatwere empty all around them, like
a bubble that was surroundingthem, a barrier.
(16:18):
Yes.
And it's said that Martin beganto change after his blue son was
born.
He would work more, he wasoutside working the land,
hunting, and he grew quieter.
Martin would be found sitting bycandlelight often at the table,
tracing the lines of the woodwhile just lost in thought.
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Nice.
unknown (16:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
Now each child that was blue were like different
shades of blue, which I kind ofthink is neat.
Teal.
Yeah.
Indigo.
Some were dark blue, indigo.
Cerulean.
Ooh, the good one.
Yes.
Others just had like littletints of blue around their
fingers, their lips.
Oftentimes the kids, wheneverthey would get upset or
agitated, the way that like youor I would turn red in the face,
(17:05):
they would turn blue.
And they their lips would turnvery blue if they were cold.
Like if they blushed, they werebluer.
Instead of pink, they were blue.
They were healthy though.
Yeah, it's like there wasnothing else wrong with them.
They were healthy.
They everything was fine.
They just were blue.
So because everyone had negativethings to think about them, the
fugates did not go out much.
(17:26):
Basically, just church and thenlike the store whenever they
whenever necessary.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
They weren't social.
SPEAKER_00 (17:32):
No.
No.
Elizabeth.
SPEAKER_01 (17:33):
Weren't going to the local hootin' nanny.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
Elizabeth would keep the kids close whenever she did
go out.
She would always hear whisperssurrounding them.
That was the blue boys.
unknown (17:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:44):
Many thought that it was like the devil's touch and
that they were sinners beingpunished for something.
When Elizabeth would go to thegeneral store, she and her
children would get stared at alot, and the owner of the store
would conduct business veryquickly with her just to kind of
like get her out.
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
Get those vampire.
I would so if I was a blue kid,once I got of age, I would just
lean into it.
Oh I would totally go supervillain on it.
Just be like, I will be themonster.
I'll be the boogeyman in thistown if that's what you think I
am.
SPEAKER_00 (18:14):
Oh, yeah.
Create the boogeyman type ofthing.
Like you created this.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
I'll show you a monster.
Let's do this.
SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
Let's do it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
Yeah.
If you can't live down thereputation, might as well live
up to it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
Oh, okay.
I get it.
I mean, I'm surprised no one didjust do like a mass, like rah,
but no, they just kind of stayedto themselves.
They really did.
And it said that kids wouldshout like blue devils, ghost
folk, and cursed ones as theylike passed by.
Yeah, I know.
I like that one.
I I say it's said because Idon't know for sure.
(18:50):
Right.
These are all stories.
One time a neighbor came by andtalked to Martin, and he said,
you know, folks saw your kidsplaying and they started
talking.
And he the neighbor said thateveryone was saying blue isn't
right, it's unholy.
The neighbor advised Martin atthis time to keep his kids close
(19:12):
to the house.
No one likes your blue kids.
They're unholy.
Keep them hidden.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
If I'm gonna duck go on a tangent for a second, but
like if supposedly the colorblue is the last color that
human eyes evolved to perceivein the last two thousand years
or so, they allege.
I don't know if that's trueanymore.
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
But uh Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Like historically there could have been more blue
people that we just didn'tperceive as blue.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
Oh, I wonder.
Like they would have at leastbeen a different shade.
Like it wouldn't just look whiteto someone, you know.
So but yeah, that isinteresting.
And I did hear that a while agoabout the blue development, but
did they re-look into it orsomething?
SPEAKER_01 (19:55):
It was mostly based on conjecture that historical
documents didn't reference thecolor blue.
They described things that wewould describe as blue today as
other, like the Bible, theOdyssey, the Ilya.
They like Homer described thesea as like wine colored.
Anything that we would say islike blue, no one else
historically described it asblue.
(20:15):
Maybe the name years ago.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Maybe the name of the color didn't come about for
a while.
Maybe people saw it and didn'tknow how to describe it.
That's still weird.
SPEAKER_01 (20:24):
But then even like isolated tribes can't
differentiate blue from greeneasily.
Like we like you know, uncontactor not uncontacted, but barely
contacted tribes in SouthAmerica or whatever.
Like you when they show themshades of green and blue, they
can't pick the blue square outof like 219 green.
SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
Weird.
SPEAKER_01 (20:44):
Yeah.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Back to it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
Anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (20:49):
All the best foods are blue.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
Yeah.
How about an egg in this dryingtime?
Anyway.
So after the neighbor advisedMartin to keep his kid close,
Martin looked at himexpressionless and said, It's
not the Lord's work.
It is mine.
It is in me.
Every story that I hear or readabout Martin is that he was
pretty depressed and like blamedhimself and felt bad.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Why do I have the devil semen in me?
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
The fugates as a family would continue to
withdraw even more, no longerlingering after church, even.
And Elizabeth stopped going tothe store altogether.
And she often asked herchildren, like older kids, to
go.
SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
The non-blue ones.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Probably, I'm guessing.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's mixed.
SPEAKER_01 (21:33):
Played a few normies.
SPEAKER_00 (21:34):
Yeah, yeah.
I would really love to see aphoto because Elizabeth is
described as having very paleskin with like red hair.
SPEAKER_01 (21:42):
I've seen that painting of them like a family
portrait.
Some of them are blue and someare not.
Yeah.
Yep.
I don't know the whole when thatwas if they like sat for a
portrait or if it was just donedecades later or whatnot.
SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
I will let you know.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Mm-hmm.
But yes, so the isolation thatthey continue to stay in caused
more inbreeding, and they wouldmarry the other families in that
hauler, like the Smiths, theRitchie's, Combs.
So descendants today could havethose last names as well.
But the difference is that otherfamilies in Troublesome Creek
(22:16):
would venture out to other likehaulers in the area.
Like there were other littletowns, other little hamlets
around, but the Fugates didn'teven go there.
So even though the Smiths andRichie's and Combs's were kind
of intermarrying as well, um,they didn't do it as much
(22:37):
because they they some of theirkids left, some of their kids
moved away, but the fugatesdidn't.
They were like, uh, nope.
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
They just dug in.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
Yes, they couldn't leave.
You know, m some of the uh uhwhite-colored fugates left, but
the blue ones stayed.
So that recessive gene juststayed.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (22:54):
Speaking of genes, and I saw that uh was it James
Watson died yesterday or twodays ago, one of the two Watson
and Crick, one of the twodiscoverers of the DNA double
helix.
Oh died at 97.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (23:11):
I didn't know he was still alive, honestly.
I got the alert that he died.
SPEAKER_00 (23:14):
Didn't know that we didn't know about the DNA double
helix thing.
I thought I didn't realize thatwas that recent of a discovery.
Oh, okay, that makes a littlemore sense.
He is 97.
Yeah.
I guess okay.
I was like, I thought thathappened a lot sooner.
Okay, fair for fair.
unknown (23:31):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
Yes.
But yes, so the um fugates didnot leave troublesome Creek.
And as we know, the Smith familyas well does have that recessive
gene in them.
I did see in one place, which Idon't think this is true, but I
did see in one place that theCombs family also had that
recessive trait.
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
I that'd be so what, six, five, six families, half of
them have this right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
So I think that that's a really rare I think the
Smith family for sure, becausewe have evidence, yeah, right,
they had children.
Yeah, that's um and the combsfamily would eventually have
blue children.
The Smith family, the richest.
It's from intermarrying, though.
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
If you get some not inherently.
SPEAKER_00 (24:13):
So I just wanted to say that again because there's a
lot of hearsay, this and that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:18):
Hearsay this.
SPEAKER_00 (24:20):
As time went on, more blue people were being
born.
Other haulers in the area wouldstart to hear stories about
them.
They basically looked at theblue people of Kentucky as like
a myth.
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
Yeah.
The bluegets.
SPEAKER_00 (24:36):
Yeah, the bluegets.
Ghost tales were told aboutthem.
It was said to touch a fugate'shand was to feel the chill of
death itself.
Yeah, they're like a spooky.
Yeah.
unknown (24:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:50):
See, I would start living up to this if I was one
of those boys, like I was in myteens.
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
Yeah, kind of like, ooh, like creep, like look in
the windows.
And yeah.
Just be yourself.
One time there was a new fancyteacher all the way from
Lexington, Kentucky.
Now we're moving city.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
We're getting like the 1850s.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
Yeah, we're moving through time here.
Yes.
I don't know all the dates, butwe're we're progressing through
time.
More kids are being born.
Just assume procreating ishappening.
And a fancy teacher came all theway from Lexington.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
I'm surprised none of the locals tried to like
enslave these blue people forbeing darker than them.
Kentucky was a slave state.
Surprised they weren't like,hey, their skin's darker.
Yeah.
With some chains on them.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
I know.
I think because of the isolationpart of it too, worked in their
favor as well.
Because the families didn't havea choice, right?
We need at the very least, evenif we don't want to marry into
your family, we need your helpin times of hardship.
And like the community has tocome together because no one's
helping them.
It's tricky.
It's tricky.
They they were pretty muchshunned, but allowed to be
(25:51):
there.
Yeah.
So the teacher from Lexington,Kentucky came to teach in
Troublesome Creek.
There was a one-roomschoolhouse.
I think they met like once aweek.
Like it wasn't much, just enoughto be like we did it.
SPEAKER_01 (26:04):
Everyone from age seven to seventeen, probably in
one room.
SPEAKER_00 (26:08):
If that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
Um, and the teacher didn't know about the blue
Fugates, and he was surprised tosee one blue student in his
classroom.
Yes.
I read that it was a maleteacher.
That's what I read.
SPEAKER_01 (26:20):
Nice for some reason I pictured a female teacher
coming.
SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
Yeah, no, I I read it was a male.
Um one of the Fugate boys wasthere, of course, the blue
student eagerly waiting tolearn.
However, the children openlylaughed at the Fugate boy and
started chanting Blue Devil athim.
And I saw in the account thatthe teacher was not able to gain
control of the class, but alsothat he didn't really try.
(26:45):
He was also asking questions,like, Why are you blue?
What is this?
Like he wanted the kids to stopyelling blue devil, I think, but
also was like, You're blue, hey.
So that boy never returned toclass again.
unknown (26:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:59):
None of the fugates really went to school.
A few tried, there's a fewstories of this of one trying
here and there, but they getjust like pushed out.
So they just don't go to school.
It's also said the kids wouldask their mothers throughout the
family why they are the way theyare.
And the mothers would alwaysrespond, God.
(27:19):
You are the way God made you,pay no mind to what others say.
SPEAKER_01 (27:23):
Take it up with God.
He cursed you, not me.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Yeah.
The fathers would give advice totheir sons, telling them to keep
their heads down, don't talkunless you have to, work hard,
and just keep busy.
So they basically taughteveryone in their family to just
work through it.
Mind your business, work throughit, keep your head down, and
just live within our home here.
(27:46):
Railroads finally came in theearly 1900s, around 1910, 1912,
and they made their way into thehaulers.
Yay! This is when news of theblue people started to make
their way out of the region.
We have more, obviously, peopletraveling around.
(28:12):
We're jumping forward here.
Yeah.
There's not a lot of informationbecause there's not a lot of
written things.
Yeah.
Even in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s,like even in Appalachia now,
there's a lot of areas that areuntouched and people live there.
SPEAKER_02 (28:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:26):
We discover families all the time.
Anyway, moving on.
So yeah, we're fast-forwardingto like the mid-20th century
now, um, 1950, early 1960.
And there's a physician at theUniversity of Kentucky.
SPEAKER_01 (28:40):
Yes, he's he takes it up named Dr.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
Madison Cowen.
He is a hematologist, which is ablood doctor.
And he hears of this blue fugatefamily, and he's like, whoa, I
have a theory.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
I know what the cause might be.
SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
He wants to see them.
He wants to check it out.
So in 1960, Dr.
Kowen, um, Cowan, sorry, madehis way to Troublesome Creek.
He hung around for a while andwas visiting clinics because he
didn't know exactly where theylived.
SPEAKER_01 (29:10):
Yeah, you gotta kind of like get in there and find
the right people who will tellyou which road to go down to
find them.
Because it's very hush-hush ofhim.
unknown (29:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:18):
And I want to be be clear after I said it, I heard
how I said it.
He didn't know even to go toTroublesome Creek.
He made his way toward thatarea.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
He just knew there's blue people in the wilds of
rural Kentucky.
SPEAKER_00 (29:30):
Yes.
So he's hanging around the area,visiting clinics and doctors'
offices, being like someone atsome point had to have needed
medical attention, right?
Somewhere along the line, a blueperson had to have walked in
somewhere.
So he's asking around, askingaround, and finally he meets
nurse Ruth Pendergrass.
Ruth said that a woman showed upat the doctor's office once and
(29:54):
that she knocked on the backdoor, not wanting to come in
through the front lobby.
So Ruth lets her in and waslike, What's up?
And the woman looked like shewas trying to hide herself.
And the woman asked for aroutine blood test.
Okay.
And Ruth remembered that it wasvery cold outside that day.
And she noticed that the woman'slips and fingers were very blue.
So I don't think she was a fullyblue person, but she had that
(30:16):
blue tint to her.
Ruth was concerned as a nurse,like blue isn't really a good
color if you're healthy, right?
And the woman quickly explainedthat the blue skin condition ran
in her family and that she wasfine.
Ruth knew that her last name wasCombs.
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:32):
So she's from the Combs.
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
She married married into that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:36):
Her maiden name is Fugate.
SPEAKER_01 (30:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
Dr.
Cowen located the Combs family,and they were living not in
Troublesome Creek, but near it.
And they told him that theFugates lived in Troublesome
Creek.
He still doesn't know exactlywhere that is, but they pointed
him in a closer direction.
As he was on his way, lookingaround, trudging through the
woods.
(30:59):
I don't know if this is a truestory or not, but I like to
think of this as a true one.
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
It's true that it is a story.
SPEAKER_00 (31:05):
That is that is right.
That is correct.
Dr.
Cowan, I guess, when he was justtrudging through the woods,
looking to see if he spots anyblue people, he did see some and
he yells at them to stop, andthen he began running toward
them.
unknown (31:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:21):
Come back here, blue bow.
unknown (31:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:24):
That's exactly what I imagined.
And then the story goes that theblue people ran away and he
never got to interact with thembecause he was like shouting at
them.
Oh, so Dr.
Cowan wandered around the woodsa bit more, but he could not
find where they lived.
He lost them.
So he decided to stick aroundTroublesome Creek, hoping again
(31:46):
that someone else would needmedical attention.
He's like, someone came once,someone else might come back.
Again, because Ruth, Nurse Ruthhad a good interaction with that
Fugate woman.
Um, so they were hoping thatmaybe someone else would come
back.
SPEAKER_01 (32:01):
Combs woman.
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
Yes.
Yes.
I don't know her first name,though, but yes.
Eventually, Ruth was visitedagain by two siblings.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
Yes, boy and a girl, right?
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
Patrick and Rachel Richie.
So they last name is Richie, butstill fugates.
Yes.
And they came to see the nurse.
I don't really know why, but oneway or another, nurse Ruth and
Dr.
Cowan were able to convince thesiblings to let the doctor take
some blood samples.
And he noticed that their bloodwas darker, like a brown color.
SPEAKER_02 (32:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:38):
In some descriptions, I heard that it
was like thicker.
SPEAKER_02 (32:41):
Alright.
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
So I don't I don't know.
Again, not a doctor.
But he noticed it was brown.
Another thing I saw was thatsomeone described it as like
chocolate milk.
But yes.
So he was running some tests andhe was stumped.
He didn't know what was goingon.
Well he dove into his researchand he discovered that another
doctor encountered blue peoplein an isolated area in Alaska.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
Alaska?
While it's cold there.
SPEAKER_00 (33:06):
Yeah.
These were indigenous people.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
Oh.
Yes.
Like Inuits.
SPEAKER_00 (33:09):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (33:10):
And they were blue.
Huh.
I don't know what came of them,but this doctor discovered why
they were blue.
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
It's an oxygen issue in the blood, right?
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
Yes.
They were a different colorbecause they were missing an
enzyme, and this enzyme allowsthe blood to be oxygenated
properly.
Okay.
But without it, it's notoxygenated properly, so it makes
the blood a brown color, whichthen makes the skin look kind of
blue.
SPEAKER_02 (33:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
We have red blood in our skin, in our skin, in our
bodies, so my white pale skinhas a rosy glow because there's
red underneath.
If I had blue underneath, Iwould you'd probably see blue or
brown or something.
You know, there's some type.
Yeah.
We know what's happening here.
Dr.
Cowan goes back to the bloodsamples and he tests them for
(33:53):
this enzyme.
And sure enough, the fugateswere missing the enzyme.
SPEAKER_01 (33:57):
So that's the actual recessive trait.
SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
Yes, missing that enzyme.
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
Being blue itself is the effect.
SPEAKER_00 (34:03):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (34:04):
But yeah, the cause is the enzyme.
Or the trait is the same.
SPEAKER_00 (34:08):
I didn't want to give too much science up top.
I want to get the story outfirst.
Um but yes, the missing enzymeis the trait.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:15):
It's not even a pigment issue.
No.
It's a blood thing.
SPEAKER_00 (34:19):
Yeah.
And that's why everything elsewas like fine, because it was
just they were missing a littlebit of oxygen in their blood,
but everything seemed to workokay.
It's actually said that they arevery healthy.
Like they live easily into their70s, 80s, and 90s.
Yeah, they're like a strongfamily.
Yeah.
So Dr.
Cowan, now knowing what iswrong, starts playing with
(34:39):
different chemicals to see likehow to make this blood more
oxygenated.
Yes.
And he uses a substance calledmethylene blue.
And this blue chemical wouldallow the blood to turn to red
by carrying oxygen to the bloodthat it was missing.
So I think it's kind of ironicthat a blue chemical will make
them pink or white.
SPEAKER_02 (35:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:02):
But yeah.
So Patrick and Rachel allow Dr.
(36:11):
Cowan to inject them with thismethylene blue.
SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
And these two are like teenagers at the time,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
I don't know exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (36:18):
They're like not full adults.
They're like in the children toteen.
I don't think they're fulladults.
SPEAKER_00 (36:23):
I have no idea.
They're brother and sister, soI'm guessing they're probably
teen or young adults, but I Ireally did not look.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (36:31):
Seeing this on uh what was that show?
Mysteries at the Museum.
Remember that?
SPEAKER_00 (36:35):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:36):
With host Don Wildman.
SPEAKER_00 (36:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:39):
He's always walking on like a staircase.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
He was like a cool leather jacket.
Yeah.
And he had the coolest name, DonWildman.
SPEAKER_00 (36:45):
Oh, yeah.
But yes.
So the blue methylene, after itwas injected into Patrick and
Rachel, it worked.
Yeah, true.
Within a few minutes, actually.
I didn't know.
I thought it would take a fewdays, but no.
SPEAKER_01 (36:59):
Like see the blue immediately dissipating.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (37:01):
Within a few minutes, they were starting to
turn a pale pink skin tone.
SPEAKER_01 (37:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:06):
The effects were only temporary because you'd
like to pee it out basically.
SPEAKER_01 (37:10):
You had to get like normal or regular injections to
maintain your color.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
Dr.
Cowan made tablets.
SPEAKER_01 (37:15):
Oh, tablets.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
He gave them to them, sent them home with them,
gave them extra.
Like, here you go, this willhelp.
Take it whenever you need it.
There you go.
Now, one day, an older mountainman of the Fugate line came up
to Dr.
Cowan.
I don't know how long after, butafter, and he said, I can see
the old blue running out of myskin in a grateful tone.
Like, that's the only, that'sall I know about that story.
(37:38):
But Dr.
Cowan was happy.
He had their trust and he waslike, Cool, okay.
So now that he's gained theirtrust, they know that he's like
a good guy, he was able to askthem more questions.
SPEAKER_01 (37:49):
He wanted their lineage and yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:52):
He wanted to know the journey of this recessive
trait.
Where did it start?
Who started it?
Where did it come from?
SPEAKER_01 (37:57):
He was the first blue person that you recall in
your family tree kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (38:02):
Yes.
So he took down a bunch ofverbal accounts.
And he also, I saw in one placethat he spoke to like 180 family
members.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (38:13):
Sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (38:14):
Mm-hmm.
Well, he's talking to Richie's,he's talking to Smiths, like
family members meaning like thesprawling.
Yes, all of it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
The sprawl of Troublesome Creek.
SPEAKER_00 (38:23):
Yes.
He also looks a little bit intoofficial records of Perry
County, Kentucky, which is thecounty that Troublesome Creek is
in.
Okay.
So he looks to find maybe somebirth certificates, some
marriage licenses, anything likethat, just to kind of help dates
line up.
Um he doesn't go outside ofPerry County, though.
He doesn't look outside of that.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
So you gotta set a limit.
SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
For him, the origin of the Blue Fugates is Kentucky.
And that's where we get Martinbeing an orphan in 1820.
SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
Because he just shows up.
SPEAKER_00 (38:54):
Yep.
And that was pretty common evenin the 50s and 60s.
If someone didn't really knowwhere they came from, the person
would just say they're orphaned.
But it wasn't like a a a trickor anything.
It wasn't like back then, ifsomeone were to be like, oh,
actually he's not an orphan,this is what's going on, no one
would be like, You lied to us,Dr.
Cowan.
(39:14):
It would be like, well, okay.
And it solves that.
Yeah.
So he wasn't an orphan.
I think it was just the termused at the time because, like
you said, he has set limits.
He can't travel the wholecountry looking for where Martin
came from.
Dr.
Cowan was also confused by thetwo Zachariah Fugates.
He never mentioned that Martinand Zachariah both were adults
(39:38):
living there together.
He started the Fugate line withjust Martin.
Okay.
And then Zachariah, his son,married Ant.
unknown (39:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:47):
When Dr.
SPEAKER_00 (39:48):
Cowan started this.
SPEAKER_01 (39:49):
Okay.
So he got his genealogyincorrect.
And it just got repeatedthroughout the years.
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
Again, I don't think he, you know, he didn't mean to.
I think he's a scientist.
I think he would like to knowthe actual genealogy of it all,
but through verbal accounts andwhat little official records he
had, and maybe a Bible here orthere that was passed down from
the family might have somefamily notes in it, but that's
it.
So he's taking very fragmentedpieces and trying to create a
whole story.
(40:16):
So he fills in blanks.
Dr.
Cowan published his findings orhis case in 1964.
And right after it waspublished, or soon after,
journalists began to requestinterviews with Hilda Stacy.
They request interviews forother people too.
Um Stacy is another last name oftheir Stacy's, Richie's, Colin
(40:38):
Smith's.
Yeah.
So she's she's a Fugate lying.
Okay.
Last name of Stacy, though.
Her maiden name is Fugate.
Um, but she said that she didn'tlike the way the journalists and
reporters were just rude to her,asking very personal and
judgmental questions about howtheir family was intermarrying,
and she's really didn't like howmuch they were focused on that.
So this is where it all startswith like the press now knowing
(41:01):
about it, and they're like yes,sensationalizing it, making the
big deal.
And Hilda Stacy is just recordedas being the one that says we
don't like that.
Yeah.
The last descendant to be bornwith blue skin was Benjamin
Stacy.
SPEAKER_01 (41:15):
And when was he born?
SPEAKER_00 (41:16):
1975.
SPEAKER_01 (41:17):
Okay.
I thought it was in the 70s or80s that the last one was born
blue.
SPEAKER_00 (41:21):
Yep.
He's also known as Benji Stacy,if you see that name.
Same one.
Uh I believe he's still alivetoday.
SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
He'd only be 50.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:28):
I didn't see any death records or anything.
And, you know, he's livingpeacefully, I'm sure.
But yes, he was the lastdescendant that was born with
blue skin.
He was born in Lexington,Kentucky.
Okay.
And he's Hilda Stacy's son.
Did I say that already?
Whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (41:43):
Just yeah, whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (41:44):
I'll edit it out.
SPEAKER_01 (41:45):
All right, let's just admit it.
That didn't happen.
SPEAKER_00 (41:49):
Doctors were very shocked when this blue baby was
born.
Yeah.
And they were trying to figureout what was wrong, but Benji's
grandmother stepped in and waslike, eh, this is we're from the
Fuguet line.
Uh who runs in the family.
That's who we are.
SPEAKER_02 (42:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:02):
But Ben only had one recessive gene for it.
Okay.
So within a few weeks or a monthor so, he grew out of it.
SPEAKER_02 (42:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (42:09):
And I guess this did happen to a lot of the Fugate
lines when they did have arecessive gene, just one.
They could be born blue and thenthey grow out of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just works out.
I'm going to move forward nowwith the sensationalization of
that was fun to say.
Sensationalization of the Fugatefamily, because the press is now
(42:30):
on it.
Several family members wereinterviewed in a medical book
called Traits and Fates.
And they all basically, they'retrying to tell their story,
their side of it.
And they just said we alleventually came to accept the
color of our skin.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:44):
What else?
SPEAKER_00 (42:45):
And it was just normal to them now.
And Ben's mom, Hilda, Stacy, shejust shrugged it off and said,
It's common.
It's nothing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:52):
What do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
So they're trying to like tone it down.
They're like, can we just chillout?
It's not a big deal, guys.
Leave us alone.
SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Health other in any other way.
So it's not a big deal.
It's just not.
SPEAKER_00 (43:02):
It's not a big deal.
So now we're gonna jump into the1980s now.
SPEAKER_01 (43:06):
All right.
SPEAKER_00 (43:10):
Dr.
Cowan was approached by a showcalled That's Incredible.
SPEAKER_02 (43:16):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
And they wanted to parade the blue people across
the screen in their weeklydisplay of human oddities.
It's kind of how Dr.
Cowan looked at it.
He did say no.
He refused.
He didn't want to be a part ofthe show.
And the show was only on from1980 to 1984.
SPEAKER_02 (43:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (43:33):
So I didn't realize that.
Um, but yes, it's basically ifyou don't know it, very human
oddities being shoved in frontof your face and you get to ogle
at it.
SPEAKER_01 (43:43):
It's a televised sideshow.
SPEAKER_00 (43:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:46):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (43:47):
Barnaban Bailey for this era.
SPEAKER_00 (43:49):
Yeah.
Dr.
Cowan wasn't still like studyingany like their blood or anything
because he figured it out,right?
But he still kept in goodcontact with not in good was
some of them still reached outto him time to time when needing
help.
Like there was one instancewhere um I think one of the sons
of someone, a blue fugate line,he had a baby and he had he was
(44:10):
in the military, so he was outof the country, and his baby was
born blue, and he called Dr.
Cowan, like, what can I do?
And Dr.
Cowan was like, just have thatbaby, you know, give him the
injection and call it good.
Like, but they're still callinghim years later, which I think
was great.
So they have a good bond.
Dr.
Cowan didn't mean to like messup their family and lineage, he
(44:30):
was really trying to help.
Yeah.
There was also, which this wasfun to hear, a Hollywood film or
a documentary crew that wastrying to film them and do stuff
with them in Troublesome Creek,but they were chased away.
Apparently, each house they wentto had large guard dogs that
would chase them out.
SPEAKER_02 (44:48):
Nice.
SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
So yeah, they're like, we're done.
We don't care about you anymore,we're done.
SPEAKER_02 (44:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:54):
Nurse Ruth would go on to say that the blue fugates,
they were poor people, but theywere good.
So to know them is to love them.
You just have to know them.
Now let's talk about thatpainting.
SPEAKER_01 (45:10):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (45:10):
Because I was curious about that too, because
I always thought that that was arepresentation of them.
It's not.
Surprise.
Let's talk about it.
So as we know, the Fugate familystayed away from photography.
They probably didn't care aboutit much anyway, because it was
expensive back then.
And you know, but either way,they just didn't want it.
Like they didn't want to beseen, they didn't want their
(45:31):
photos taken ever because theywere scared that someone's going
to take their photo out ofTroublesome Creek and then show
them to the world.
SPEAKER_01 (45:39):
I think the first photo was taken in 1837.
But for the first I mean, I Idon't know when the first color
photo was taken, but I imaginethe first I mean the first 60,
70 years of photography.
SPEAKER_00 (45:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (45:50):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (45:53):
Not very well, but it wasn't like straight black
and white, though, was it thatsepia tone?
So that their skin would havelooked different.
SPEAKER_02 (45:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:59):
It would have looked different.
Yeah.
Either way, they they wereprivate, right?
They didn't want anyone knowingthat they existed.
They didn't want the outsideworld to know of them.
Even as photography became moreand more like in the 50s and
60s, there's just not a lot ofphotos of them because they were
blue.
They didn't want theirphotographs taken, or they just
never became public, right?
So the artist of this painting,he was asked to do the painting
(46:22):
of the Fugate family, the first,the Martin and Elizabeth, for a
1982 article.
So this painting is far morerecent.
Yes.
And the article was written forscience for Science magazine
called Science 82.
Okay.
It changes its year every year.
So it's Science 83.
SPEAKER_01 (46:42):
Some journal problem.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:44):
The artist was told the number of people in the
family, the number of children,and all that, but said rural
Kentucky family given like arough time period.
That's it.
SPEAKER_02 (46:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (46:55):
So he looked up like photos of people from back then
and just kind of made his ownidea of it.
So we have no idea how theyreally looked.
We've I he could have just doneany f any photo of anyone and
just done it.
And he was also told to paintfive of them blue, Martin being
the fifth.
SPEAKER_01 (47:12):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (47:13):
I think this painting is why so many people
think Martin Fugate was blue.
SPEAKER_01 (47:17):
Probably.
SPEAKER_00 (47:17):
I don't think he was.
I just don't.
And I think that's why Dr.
Cowan probably stopped at Martinand Elizabeth because I don't
think either of them were blue.
Yeah.
I think he goes, okay, itstarted with them.
Done.
I just that's what I think.
That's what I'm assuming from myresearch.
So yes, I understand thefrustration of the descendants
because there's a lot of bigdetails that are just wrong.
(47:38):
However, I understand whythey're wrong though, too.
Like I'm not mad about it.
Like no one's trying to mess upthis story.
It just kind of gotsensationalized.
And so there's not as muchintermarrying as you would
think.
That's what that's the takeaway,I think, from all of this.
SPEAKER_01 (47:56):
They're not it's not they're not blue because of
inbreeding.
SPEAKER_00 (48:00):
No.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
Because the Smith family didhave it.
So like even there there wasgoing to be blue people no
matter what.
Even like the first blue oneswere not connected in blood at
all.
So yeah.
That's it.
No.
Yeah, there wasn't too much.
SPEAKER_01 (48:15):
I mean, there are people who can become blue today
by taking too much colloidalsilver.
SPEAKER_00 (48:20):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just don't do that.
That's not good for you.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (48:24):
So if you see like blue people around you, that's
likely the cause.
SPEAKER_00 (48:28):
Yeah.
Don't take collodials, what howare you?
Colloidial silver.
I I don't know what benefits ithas.
It seems like when someonestarts it, it's bullshit woo-woo
stuff.
Stop it.
Yeah.
It's not healthy to turn yourskin blue.
SPEAKER_01 (48:43):
That's what I'm thinking of, yeah.
So she was God and she turnedblue.
SPEAKER_00 (48:46):
Yeah, and she basically like mummified in the
bed.
God, it's insane.
SPEAKER_01 (48:52):
But yeah, some I wonder if the fugits probably
not.
I was gonna say, I wonder ifthey're related to Carol Ann
Fugit, who was a killer.
She's the youngest woman to everbe sentenced to life in prison
in U.S.
history.
She was 14 when she wassentenced.
What did she do?
(49:13):
She was she's been releasedsince.
She was parled like in the 70s,and she lives in Michigan, last
I heard, as a nurse.
Or retired nurse.
She in the 1950s.
Oh, this is a famous case.
1950s.
This is in Nebraska.
Caroline Fugit, she was 14.
Her 17, 18-year-old boyfriend,Charles Starkweather, who was
like a James Dean wannabe.
SPEAKER_02 (49:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (49:35):
The two of them went on a road trip for like two,
three weeks, killing a bunch ofpeople.
SPEAKER_02 (49:39):
Oh, they're with her parents.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (49:42):
They killed her parents and then went on a road
trip wherever they stopped toget gas, they would just kill
people.
Charles Starkweather andCaroline Fugate.
Spelled the same, but I doubtthey're related because this was
in Nebraska.
SPEAKER_00 (49:54):
Yeah, that seems very I don't know if they went
that far west.
But um maybe.
I don't know.
I'm sure some of them have flownthe coop, right?
They're not all in Kentucky.
SPEAKER_01 (50:02):
But that's an interesting is interesting.
True crime case.
Charles Starkweather.
SPEAKER_00 (50:07):
Yeah, there was um there were some theories of the
blue fugates of like the silver.
Maybe they're just taking a lotof that, but that's not true.
There's something else theycould be eating that has a lot
of stuff in it, but that's nottrue.
SPEAKER_01 (50:18):
Um blueberries.
SPEAKER_00 (50:19):
Yeah, a bunch of blueberries.
SPEAKER_01 (50:21):
Drinking too much blue Gatorade.
SPEAKER_00 (50:23):
Yeah, blue Gatorade, blueberries.
Um, some people even thoughtthat maybe their skin was too
close or their their blood wastoo close to their skin.
Which I don't know why thatwould make it blue.
Oh, because you see your blueveins.
Maybe people thought becausethere was people did think back
in the day your blood was blue.
Like not scientists, becausethey drew blood, so they saw it,
(50:44):
but like anyway, you know whatI'm saying.
Yeah.
So no, none of that enzyme ismissing.
Yeah.
So they didn't do it tothemselves.
Yeah.
So yes, I hope you enjoyed theblue fugates.
That was interesting.
Yeah.
unknown (50:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:59):
So you can spread the good word, let people know
that they are not uh uhintermarried as much as others.
They see I mean, honestly, youshould all go on Facebook and
visit that that page.
It's public, it's open.
SPEAKER_01 (51:13):
They they want what's it called again?
SPEAKER_00 (51:15):
The f what is it called?
I have it written down.
SPEAKER_01 (51:18):
I know you mentioned earlier, but if you're gonna
plug it again, I know it's theFugates like families.
SPEAKER_00 (51:25):
Yeah, the Fugates Fugate families.
SPEAKER_01 (51:27):
Of Facebook.
SPEAKER_00 (51:28):
Yeah.
No, I mean it's not of Facebook.
Oh, so they don't have that inthe title.
But yes, a lot of them areposting their own DNA stuff that
they have found, and they see, Imean, I think there was some of
their family that fought in theRevolutionary War.
Like the Fugates came herebefore America was America.
So yeah, spread the word andalso share this episode.
(51:53):
You can, oh, there we go.
It's a good segue.
You can help spread the word bysharing this episode because
that also helps us.
So remember to like us on ApplePodcasts, Spotify Podcasts,
wherever you listen.
Sharing, engaging is veryhelpful.
We give you consent to share uswith your friends.
Um, also follow us on Instagramat borrowed bones podcast.
(52:14):
You can check out our merchsite.
You can always click just thelink that's under the show
description.
So just scroll down just alittle bit and you'll see a big
merch.
Also, our merch website isborrowedbones podcast.com.
So take a look at everything andyeah.
Yeah.
Until next time.
SPEAKER_01 (52:31):
Until next time, yes.
Yes.
The next time we use it.
Goodbye.
Hello, everyone.
SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
Hello.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
I'm Sarah.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
I'm Cole.
SPEAKER_00 (00:18):
And you are listening to Borrowed Bones, a
podcast about fucked up,interesting, and toxic families.
Today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
Who are we talking about today?
SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
We are talking about the Blue Fugates of Kentucky.
SPEAKER_01 (00:32):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_00 (00:32):
The Fugate family.
SPEAKER_01 (00:35):
I know a little bit about them.
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
Just because of Ooh, what do you know?
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
I know they're the Blue Fugate family from West
Virginia.
Appalachia.
Kentucky.
Kentucky.
Oh, you just said Kentucky.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
Sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Appalachia, whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
You drank like two bottles of wine last night, so
whatever.
It'll be fun today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
Yeah.
I just know they're blue people.
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
Yes.
Yes, they are.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Really blue skinned.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Yes.
And I wasn't sure if I wanted todo this one or not because I
thought that it had been done todeath, and I thought that
everyone knew about this and itwas pretty commonplace.
Um, no, they don't.
I realize not many.
I mean, I think there is a largepopulation that does know about
them, but there's a lot ofpeople that don't.
Yeah.
And also with my research, Idiscovered new information about
(01:22):
them.
So the story that I knew isactually a little wrong.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
So let's get into it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
Yeah.
Let's do it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Mm-hmm.
So the story goes that in 1820,Martin Fugate, an orphan from
France, came to America.
And he came over because theAmerican government at the time
was offering people free land ifthey settled it and farmed it.
This, to me, I got confused.
This is not the Homestead Act of1862.
(01:53):
I was like, this is alreadywrong.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Or during Civil War.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
Um, and I thought maybe that was it.
And I was like, well, we'realready wrong here because 1820
is way too early for that.
But anyway, I looked into thatand the American government did
do something with Appalachiaarea specifically around this
time.
So Martin Fugate came over fromFrance as an orphan in 1820 to
get the freelan.
(02:18):
And he would end up in a hollowor a holler called Troublesome
Creek.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
Troublesome Creek Holler.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Anyone who's not familiar in this area of our
country, there's a lot ofhollows or hollers.
I don't know, little towns.
Yes, yes, Hamlet Village.
Yes, very small, rural,tight-knit communities, like
isolated.
Yeah.
Isolated is the big one here.
In this holler, there are fourother families within
(02:49):
Troublesome Creek.
We have the Smiths, the Richies,the Stacy's, and the Combs.
The Combses, I guess.
Their last name is Combs.
And Martin, Fugate, will marryElizabeth Smith.
So he starts his own littleline, but it is connected to the
Smith family that's alreadythere.
And they would go on to haveseven children.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Martin and Liz.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Martin and Liz, yep.
Four of those children would beblue.
SPEAKER_01 (03:19):
Like they came out blue and never stopped, or they
Yes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
Mm-hmm.
And now there's differenttheories on if Martin was blue
himself or not.
When researching it, I don'tthink he was blue.
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
Okay.
Obviously, this is beforephotographs exist.
There's no photograph of him.
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
It's all a lot of their story is verbal, which is
why it's a little messy and veryor isolated holler.
Yeah.
Holler.
So yes.
So I don't know if Martin wasblue or not.
I am leaning towards no.
So I I'm just assuming thatthese four blue babies were a
surprise, right?
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
Oh, the first one anyway.
Yeah two, three, or four mighthave been like not quite
surprised.
SPEAKER_00 (04:01):
That's true.
Now, this is where we already doget a little bit of the details
mixed up here.
Most people who know the storyhave heard all of this before.
Everything I just said, Martinis an orphan.
He came over in 1820 to get landfrom in the Appalachia area.
In recent years, though, throughlike Ancestry.com, 23andMe, and
(04:21):
people just doing their owndigging, they discovered that
the Fugates were actually inAmerica since like the 1700s.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
He wasn't an orphan.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
He wasn't an orphan from France.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
I I think his family did come from France.
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
Fugate, I would assume.
Yes.
It sounds like a French name.
Yes or a derivative of a Frenchorigin.
SPEAKER_00 (04:40):
But he was not the one that came from France.
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
So he was American by birth.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
Yes.
And they just weren't always inKentucky.
And no one cross-referenced thethe like paperwork.
Everyone was like, well, theFugates are here in Kentucky, in
Perry County, but that's it.
They didn't look from becausethey they moved from like West
Virginia, Virginia, Tennessee,whatever.
You're right.
(05:04):
It wasn't.
But um so the Fugates werearound.
There's a Fugate family'sFacebook page, and I found that.
And that's where I discoveredthat a lot of the descendants
are like, there's little thingswrong here.
Martin was not an orphan, he hadfamily here.
So descendants of the Fugates,I'm here to correct that wrong.
(05:24):
Martin Fugate, the one thatmoved to Kentucky, his second
cousin, Zachariah, also movedand lived in Troublesome Creek,
Kentucky.
Okay.
A lot of people miss that one.
So they have two Fugate familylines starting.
Now back to Martin andElizabeth, who are married,
(05:45):
having children now, the fourblue babies, the rest are white.
So what's happening here?
Why are they having blue babies?
Yeah.
Why is this happening?
Both Martin and Elizabeth carrya recessive hereditary gene that
causes the blue skin.
SPEAKER_01 (06:04):
A mutation.
SPEAKER_00 (06:05):
Yes.
And they both had it.
They weren't.
This is why I don't think Martinwas blue.
Because I don't think either ofthem were displaying it because
you have to have both recessivetraits.
SPEAKER_01 (06:14):
Yeah, they would have not been surprised.
Exactly.
So right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
And I just I'm not sure if Martin could marry
someone in an isolated hauler ifhe was blue.
Like I feel like, but who knows?
But I mean it is isolated.
So I don't know.
Some people say he's blue.
I just don't think he is giventhe genetics and the science of
it all.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
Either way, though, both Martin Fugate and Elizabeth
Smith carry that recessive gene.
SPEAKER_01 (06:39):
And that's been established genetically.
SPEAKER_00 (06:42):
Yes.
They it has to.
Literally, there's no other wayaround it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
Yeah, for about I guess.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
It to create a blue child, they both have to have a
recessive gene.
I'm not a scientist, but we allget what I'm saying here.
Okay, just so we're clear.
I am not scientific at all.
SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
Why blue?
Why like are there other colors?
We'll figure that out.
Could there be green kids?
Maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
It depends.
I'll we'll get there.
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Could there be, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
Well, some of these blue fugates were so dark that
they looked purple.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, you turn purple whenyou're cold.
True.
Yeah.
As these first blue fugates weregrowing up, the family was even
more isolated because no oneliked the blue to be shunned as
local freaks.
SPEAKER_01 (07:25):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (07:26):
And keep it in the circus.
Yes.
Yeah.
And like I mean, the moreisolated an area is, from my
experience, anyway, if I guessI've not looked into studies,
but from my experience, the moreisolated an area, the more
fearsome they are of somethingdifferent.
In a blue-skinned family, that'svery different.
Even with the bluegrass Kentuckyall around, mm-mm.
(07:47):
Not supposed to be skin.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
I've only seen one blue person in my life.
It's it stands out.
SPEAKER_00 (07:54):
You've seen a blue person?
SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
Blue guy around our town.
I don't know if he's aliveanymore, but a few years ago.
He was everyone, everyone knewabout him.
SPEAKER_00 (08:02):
Oh, I didn't know about him.
SPEAKER_01 (08:03):
I don't want to say names or anything, but like, oh
yeah, the blue guy in town.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
Did he eat colloidal silver, whatever it's called?
Did he do the silver thing?
SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
He must have, yeah.
He wasn't as blue as the fugits,but like you noticed him in a
crowd.
You were like, what the fuck'swrong with that guy?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:17):
That's strange.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
He stood out.
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
Gosh.
Yes.
So Troublesome Creek itself as ahauler is very, very isolated.
They didn't have roads for along time.
They didn't even start gettingtrains coming through that area
until the early 1900s.
The name Troublesome Creek isactually because it was such a
trouble to access it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
So it was named basically like it's hard to get
here.
SPEAKER_01 (08:40):
Geographical names back then weren't uh subtle.
They were ex they were justdescriptive.
SPEAKER_00 (08:44):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Broke neck Creek.
Why is it called that?
Someone broke their neck there.
That's why.
Yeah.
They're not literary.
They're just descriptive.
SPEAKER_00 (08:51):
Yep.
This is where you're going.
You're gonna have a hard time.
Deal with it.
Yeah.
You know what you're walkinginto there.
So because of this isolation,there was inbreeding in that
area.
Oh, overall.
Inbreeding.
Yes.
Of course.
SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
Life finds a way.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
Yes.
And this is another detail thata lot of the current descendants
of these families get reallyfrustrated about.
They don't deny the inbreeding,but they say it wasn't as bad as
the story says.
And this is the specific detailthat they talk about.
So you'll see this a lot.
(09:25):
And I had a hard time not seeingit, but there's one story that
goes that Martin and Elizabethhad their children.
One of them is named Zachariah.
This is true.
And he's blue.
This is true.
The story, though, this what I'mabout to say is wrong, is that
Zachariah married his aunt,Elizabeth's sister.
SPEAKER_02 (09:46):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (09:46):
And at first that's kind of believable because maybe
Elizabeth is the top of the lineof her family for siblings, and
there could be a 15 to 20 yearage gap between siblings.
SPEAKER_01 (09:55):
An aunt who's roughly the same age as the
neighborhood.
Zachariah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:58):
Yes.
That was not the case.
When looking at like birthcertificates, like there were a
few birth certificates that werefound, a few things that could
factually be like this is reallyhappening, or this really did
happen.
Um, Elizabeth's aunt that wassaid to have married her nephew
was like 50 years older thanhim.
SPEAKER_01 (10:14):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
So I was like, that that's there's no way that
happened.
SPEAKER_01 (10:17):
There's no and there's no practical purpose.
Purpose of it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
Like, why would you do that?
SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
Childbearing age, why would a younger male like
that?
Why would that even happen?
Why would that happen?
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
Yeah.
And so after looking into itmore, I discovered that the
second cousin that moved withMartin Fuchs.
Yeah, Zachariah.
His name is Zachariah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:38):
There's two Zacharias.
SPEAKER_00 (10:39):
Mm-hmm.
There's two Zacharias.
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
So that's the one that married.
SPEAKER_00 (10:42):
Zachariah, the second cousin, married the
sister of Elizabeth.
SPEAKER_01 (10:46):
Okay.
And they're not blood related,so there's no they're just
legally related.
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
Yeah.
So they weren't like inintensely inbred.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
There should be a little inbreeding at work.
SPEAKER_00 (10:58):
There is a little bit.
Yeah.
There is a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (11:01):
I think you should leave.
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
Oh, there should be.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
You can't have inbreeding at the home.
Okay.
There should be a littleinbreeding at the home.
SPEAKER_00 (11:09):
I forgot that part.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
Well it's the, you know, we can't watch porn at
work.
We should be able to watch alittle porn at work.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Oh.
That's what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
Oh, teaching inbreeding.
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
I don't remember him talking about inbreeding.
Which we have to watch a littleporn.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
You can't watch porn at work.
We should be able to watch alittle porn at work.
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
But yes, the Fugates don't dispute the inbreeding in
general.
They just say it wasn't likemother to son, father to
daughter.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
It was like cousins and second cousins and Which
honestly was common in justAmerica.
Well, rural America at the time.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Everywhere though, too, because this is around the
same time.
Think of Edgar Allan Poe inBaltimore.
He's trying to fuck his niece.
SPEAKER_01 (11:45):
Yeah.
I mean, like Jesse James marriedhis first cousin, who was named
(13:28):
after his mother.
SPEAKER_00 (13:29):
And it was just That's there wasn't even an
issue at the time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:33):
They were first cousins, which is imagine your
wife being named after your mom.
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
It's weird.
But you know how you hear of allthose I'm sidetracking here, but
I just you hear of all thosestories, and you I don't know,
you're not from a big family.
I am.
I have a lot of first cousins.
And growing up, there's alwaysthat weird, like, is my cousin
hitting on me?
You have like one cousin that'skind of like playing with that
boundary, and you're like, isthis a flirting?
(13:59):
What the hell is going on here?
And I've just heard that peoplewith big families, there's
always like one that kind ofnothing like happens, but you
it's like, is there flirting?
Like what's happening here?
You kind of yeah, no, none ofthat.
No, but it yes, there's a reasonthere's that phrase, right?
SPEAKER_01 (14:16):
So I have a small family and my cousins are male.
SPEAKER_00 (14:19):
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
Just never wasn't issues.
SPEAKER_00 (14:21):
Yeah.
No, it's just you yeah, there'sstories between big families and
whatnot.
And so I think that I honestlythink that if it wasn't frowned
upon today, there would be somepeople marrying their cousins
today.
I think they exist.
Don't.
That's not good health-wise.
I think what you have to get tolike your third cousin before
the health risks are no longer athing.
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
Well.
SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
Or is it closer than we want?
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
I mean, state by state in America varies on
incest laws.
SPEAKER_00 (14:48):
I'm talking about health and science.
I'm not talking about legal,okay?
We can't I don't trust America.
First cousins, I'm sure.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
Past like if like the m the woman is past
menopause.
Like there's some that likefirst cousins can marry from
like age like 60 and up orsomething.
unknown (15:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:06):
They're like, why not?
Like you can't who gives a shit?
You're consenting adults andit's gross, but you can't do any
like You're not creating likebad life out of it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
Anyway, yeah.
That was a sidetrack.
But yes, so just to clear theair there, though that those are
the two main things.
Sa Zachariah did not marry hisaunt, and Martin Fugate was not
an orphan.
Okay.
There's a lot of confusionbecause they reused names.
They didn't use Junior, first,second, or third.
It was just Zachariah,Zachariah, Martin, Martin,
(15:35):
Elizabeth, Elizabeth, like allover the place.
So it got confusing.
Now, back to Martin andElizabeth, the ones that are
starting everything here inKentucky.
The news of their blue baby,their first one, spread through
the holler very quickly.
Before he was even a month old,everyone knew about him.
(15:56):
The rest of the people inTroublesome Creek, they would
say things like It's a demon.
There was wickedness in theirblood.
When the Fugates did go tochurch, they were always apart
from the crowd.
There was like pews or rows thatwere empty all around them, like
a bubble that was surroundingthem, a barrier.
(16:18):
Yes.
And it's said that Martin beganto change after his blue son was
born.
He would work more, he wasoutside working the land,
hunting, and he grew quieter.
Martin would be found sitting bycandlelight often at the table,
tracing the lines of the woodwhile just lost in thought.
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Nice.
unknown (16:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
Now each child that was blue were like different
shades of blue, which I kind ofthink is neat.
Teal.
Yeah.
Indigo.
Some were dark blue, indigo.
Cerulean.
Ooh, the good one.
Yes.
Others just had like littletints of blue around their
fingers, their lips.
Oftentimes the kids, wheneverthey would get upset or
agitated, the way that like youor I would turn red in the face,
(17:05):
they would turn blue.
And they their lips would turnvery blue if they were cold.
Like if they blushed, they werebluer.
Instead of pink, they were blue.
They were healthy though.
Yeah, it's like there wasnothing else wrong with them.
They were healthy.
They everything was fine.
They just were blue.
So because everyone had negativethings to think about them, the
fugates did not go out much.
(17:26):
Basically, just church and thenlike the store whenever they
whenever necessary.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
They weren't social.
SPEAKER_00 (17:32):
No.
No.
Elizabeth.
SPEAKER_01 (17:33):
Weren't going to the local hootin' nanny.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
Elizabeth would keep the kids close whenever she did
go out.
She would always hear whisperssurrounding them.
That was the blue boys.
unknown (17:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:44):
Many thought that it was like the devil's touch and
that they were sinners beingpunished for something.
When Elizabeth would go to thegeneral store, she and her
children would get stared at alot, and the owner of the store
would conduct business veryquickly with her just to kind of
like get her out.
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
Get those vampire.
I would so if I was a blue kid,once I got of age, I would just
lean into it.
Oh I would totally go supervillain on it.
Just be like, I will be themonster.
I'll be the boogeyman in thistown if that's what you think I
am.
SPEAKER_00 (18:14):
Oh, yeah.
Create the boogeyman type ofthing.
Like you created this.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
I'll show you a monster.
Let's do this.
SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
Let's do it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
Yeah.
If you can't live down thereputation, might as well live
up to it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
Oh, okay.
I get it.
I mean, I'm surprised no one didjust do like a mass, like rah,
but no, they just kind of stayedto themselves.
They really did.
And it said that kids wouldshout like blue devils, ghost
folk, and cursed ones as theylike passed by.
Yeah, I know.
I like that one.
I I say it's said because Idon't know for sure.
(18:50):
Right.
These are all stories.
One time a neighbor came by andtalked to Martin, and he said,
you know, folks saw your kidsplaying and they started
talking.
And he the neighbor said thateveryone was saying blue isn't
right, it's unholy.
The neighbor advised Martin atthis time to keep his kids close
(19:12):
to the house.
No one likes your blue kids.
They're unholy.
Keep them hidden.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
If I'm gonna duck go on a tangent for a second, but
like if supposedly the colorblue is the last color that
human eyes evolved to perceivein the last two thousand years
or so, they allege.
I don't know if that's trueanymore.
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
But uh Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Like historically there could have been more blue
people that we just didn'tperceive as blue.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
Oh, I wonder.
Like they would have at leastbeen a different shade.
Like it wouldn't just look whiteto someone, you know.
So but yeah, that isinteresting.
And I did hear that a while agoabout the blue development, but
did they re-look into it orsomething?
SPEAKER_01 (19:55):
It was mostly based on conjecture that historical
documents didn't reference thecolor blue.
They described things that wewould describe as blue today as
other, like the Bible, theOdyssey, the Ilya.
They like Homer described thesea as like wine colored.
Anything that we would say islike blue, no one else
historically described it asblue.
(20:15):
Maybe the name years ago.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Maybe the name of the color didn't come about for
a while.
Maybe people saw it and didn'tknow how to describe it.
That's still weird.
SPEAKER_01 (20:24):
But then even like isolated tribes can't
differentiate blue from greeneasily.
Like we like you know, uncontactor not uncontacted, but barely
contacted tribes in SouthAmerica or whatever.
Like you when they show themshades of green and blue, they
can't pick the blue square outof like 219 green.
SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
Weird.
SPEAKER_01 (20:44):
Yeah.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Back to it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
Anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (20:49):
All the best foods are blue.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
Yeah.
How about an egg in this dryingtime?
Anyway.
So after the neighbor advisedMartin to keep his kid close,
Martin looked at himexpressionless and said, It's
not the Lord's work.
It is mine.
It is in me.
Every story that I hear or readabout Martin is that he was
pretty depressed and like blamedhimself and felt bad.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Why do I have the devil semen in me?
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
The fugates as a family would continue to
withdraw even more, no longerlingering after church, even.
And Elizabeth stopped going tothe store altogether.
And she often asked herchildren, like older kids, to
go.
SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
The non-blue ones.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Probably, I'm guessing.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's mixed.
SPEAKER_01 (21:33):
Played a few normies.
SPEAKER_00 (21:34):
Yeah, yeah.
I would really love to see aphoto because Elizabeth is
described as having very paleskin with like red hair.
SPEAKER_01 (21:42):
I've seen that painting of them like a family
portrait.
Some of them are blue and someare not.
Yeah.
Yep.
I don't know the whole when thatwas if they like sat for a
portrait or if it was just donedecades later or whatnot.
SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
I will let you know.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Mm-hmm.
But yes, so the isolation thatthey continue to stay in caused
more inbreeding, and they wouldmarry the other families in that
hauler, like the Smiths, theRitchie's, Combs.
So descendants today could havethose last names as well.
But the difference is that otherfamilies in Troublesome Creek
(22:16):
would venture out to other likehaulers in the area.
Like there were other littletowns, other little hamlets
around, but the Fugates didn'teven go there.
So even though the Smiths andRichie's and Combs's were kind
of intermarrying as well, um,they didn't do it as much
(22:37):
because they they some of theirkids left, some of their kids
moved away, but the fugatesdidn't.
They were like, uh, nope.
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
They just dug in.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
Yes, they couldn't leave.
You know, m some of the uh uhwhite-colored fugates left, but
the blue ones stayed.
So that recessive gene juststayed.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (22:54):
Speaking of genes, and I saw that uh was it James
Watson died yesterday or twodays ago, one of the two Watson
and Crick, one of the twodiscoverers of the DNA double
helix.
Oh died at 97.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (23:11):
I didn't know he was still alive, honestly.
I got the alert that he died.
SPEAKER_00 (23:14):
Didn't know that we didn't know about the DNA double
helix thing.
I thought I didn't realize thatwas that recent of a discovery.
Oh, okay, that makes a littlemore sense.
He is 97.
Yeah.
I guess okay.
I was like, I thought thathappened a lot sooner.
Okay, fair for fair.
unknown (23:31):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
Yes.
But yes, so the um fugates didnot leave troublesome Creek.
And as we know, the Smith familyas well does have that recessive
gene in them.
I did see in one place, which Idon't think this is true, but I
did see in one place that theCombs family also had that
recessive trait.
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
I that'd be so what, six, five, six families, half of
them have this right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
So I think that that's a really rare I think the
Smith family for sure, becausewe have evidence, yeah, right,
they had children.
Yeah, that's um and the combsfamily would eventually have
blue children.
The Smith family, the richest.
It's from intermarrying, though.
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
If you get some not inherently.
SPEAKER_00 (24:13):
So I just wanted to say that again because there's a
lot of hearsay, this and that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:18):
Hearsay this.
SPEAKER_00 (24:20):
As time went on, more blue people were being
born.
Other haulers in the area wouldstart to hear stories about
them.
They basically looked at theblue people of Kentucky as like
a myth.
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
Yeah.
The bluegets.
SPEAKER_00 (24:36):
Yeah, the bluegets.
Ghost tales were told aboutthem.
It was said to touch a fugate'shand was to feel the chill of
death itself.
Yeah, they're like a spooky.
Yeah.
unknown (24:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:50):
See, I would start living up to this if I was one
of those boys, like I was in myteens.
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
Yeah, kind of like, ooh, like creep, like look in
the windows.
And yeah.
Just be yourself.
One time there was a new fancyteacher all the way from
Lexington, Kentucky.
Now we're moving city.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
We're getting like the 1850s.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
Yeah, we're moving through time here.
Yes.
I don't know all the dates, butwe're we're progressing through
time.
More kids are being born.
Just assume procreating ishappening.
And a fancy teacher came all theway from Lexington.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
I'm surprised none of the locals tried to like
enslave these blue people forbeing darker than them.
Kentucky was a slave state.
Surprised they weren't like,hey, their skin's darker.
Yeah.
With some chains on them.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
I know.
I think because of the isolationpart of it too, worked in their
favor as well.
Because the families didn't havea choice, right?
We need at the very least, evenif we don't want to marry into
your family, we need your helpin times of hardship.
And like the community has tocome together because no one's
helping them.
It's tricky.
It's tricky.
They they were pretty muchshunned, but allowed to be
(25:51):
there.
Yeah.
So the teacher from Lexington,Kentucky came to teach in
Troublesome Creek.
There was a one-roomschoolhouse.
I think they met like once aweek.
Like it wasn't much, just enoughto be like we did it.
SPEAKER_01 (26:04):
Everyone from age seven to seventeen, probably in
one room.
SPEAKER_00 (26:08):
If that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
Um, and the teacher didn't know about the blue
Fugates, and he was surprised tosee one blue student in his
classroom.
Yes.
I read that it was a maleteacher.
That's what I read.
SPEAKER_01 (26:20):
Nice for some reason I pictured a female teacher
coming.
SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
Yeah, no, I I read it was a male.
Um one of the Fugate boys wasthere, of course, the blue
student eagerly waiting tolearn.
However, the children openlylaughed at the Fugate boy and
started chanting Blue Devil athim.
And I saw in the account thatthe teacher was not able to gain
control of the class, but alsothat he didn't really try.
(26:45):
He was also asking questions,like, Why are you blue?
What is this?
Like he wanted the kids to stopyelling blue devil, I think, but
also was like, You're blue, hey.
So that boy never returned toclass again.
unknown (26:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:59):
None of the fugates really went to school.
A few tried, there's a fewstories of this of one trying
here and there, but they getjust like pushed out.
So they just don't go to school.
It's also said the kids wouldask their mothers throughout the
family why they are the way theyare.
And the mothers would alwaysrespond, God.
(27:19):
You are the way God made you,pay no mind to what others say.
SPEAKER_01 (27:23):
Take it up with God.
He cursed you, not me.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Yeah.
The fathers would give advice totheir sons, telling them to keep
their heads down, don't talkunless you have to, work hard,
and just keep busy.
So they basically taughteveryone in their family to just
work through it.
Mind your business, work throughit, keep your head down, and
just live within our home here.
(27:46):
Railroads finally came in theearly 1900s, around 1910, 1912,
and they made their way into thehaulers.
Yay! This is when news of theblue people started to make
their way out of the region.
We have more, obviously, peopletraveling around.
(28:12):
We're jumping forward here.
Yeah.
There's not a lot of informationbecause there's not a lot of
written things.
Yeah.
Even in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s,like even in Appalachia now,
there's a lot of areas that areuntouched and people live there.
SPEAKER_02 (28:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:26):
We discover families all the time.
Anyway, moving on.
So yeah, we're fast-forwardingto like the mid-20th century
now, um, 1950, early 1960.
And there's a physician at theUniversity of Kentucky.
SPEAKER_01 (28:40):
Yes, he's he takes it up named Dr.
SPEAKER_00 (28:43):
Madison Cowen.
He is a hematologist, which is ablood doctor.
And he hears of this blue fugatefamily, and he's like, whoa, I
have a theory.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
I know what the cause might be.
SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
He wants to see them.
He wants to check it out.
So in 1960, Dr.
Kowen, um, Cowan, sorry, madehis way to Troublesome Creek.
He hung around for a while andwas visiting clinics because he
didn't know exactly where theylived.
SPEAKER_01 (29:10):
Yeah, you gotta kind of like get in there and find
the right people who will tellyou which road to go down to
find them.
Because it's very hush-hush ofhim.
unknown (29:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:18):
And I want to be be clear after I said it, I heard
how I said it.
He didn't know even to go toTroublesome Creek.
He made his way toward thatarea.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
He just knew there's blue people in the wilds of
rural Kentucky.
SPEAKER_00 (29:30):
Yes.
So he's hanging around the area,visiting clinics and doctors'
offices, being like someone atsome point had to have needed
medical attention, right?
Somewhere along the line, a blueperson had to have walked in
somewhere.
So he's asking around, askingaround, and finally he meets
nurse Ruth Pendergrass.
Ruth said that a woman showed upat the doctor's office once and
(29:54):
that she knocked on the backdoor, not wanting to come in
through the front lobby.
So Ruth lets her in and waslike, What's up?
And the woman looked like shewas trying to hide herself.
And the woman asked for aroutine blood test.
Okay.
And Ruth remembered that it wasvery cold outside that day.
And she noticed that the woman'slips and fingers were very blue.
So I don't think she was a fullyblue person, but she had that
(30:16):
blue tint to her.
Ruth was concerned as a nurse,like blue isn't really a good
color if you're healthy, right?
And the woman quickly explainedthat the blue skin condition ran
in her family and that she wasfine.
Ruth knew that her last name wasCombs.
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:32):
So she's from the Combs.
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
She married married into that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:36):
Her maiden name is Fugate.
SPEAKER_01 (30:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
Dr.
Cowen located the Combs family,and they were living not in
Troublesome Creek, but near it.
And they told him that theFugates lived in Troublesome
Creek.
He still doesn't know exactlywhere that is, but they pointed
him in a closer direction.
As he was on his way, lookingaround, trudging through the
woods.
(30:59):
I don't know if this is a truestory or not, but I like to
think of this as a true one.
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
It's true that it is a story.
SPEAKER_00 (31:05):
That is that is right.
That is correct.
Dr.
Cowan, I guess, when he was justtrudging through the woods,
looking to see if he spots anyblue people, he did see some and
he yells at them to stop, andthen he began running toward
them.
unknown (31:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:21):
Come back here, blue bow.
unknown (31:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:24):
That's exactly what I imagined.
And then the story goes that theblue people ran away and he
never got to interact with thembecause he was like shouting at
them.
Oh, so Dr.
Cowan wandered around the woodsa bit more, but he could not
find where they lived.
He lost them.
So he decided to stick aroundTroublesome Creek, hoping again
(31:46):
that someone else would needmedical attention.
He's like, someone came once,someone else might come back.
Again, because Ruth, Nurse Ruthhad a good interaction with that
Fugate woman.
Um, so they were hoping thatmaybe someone else would come
back.
SPEAKER_01 (32:01):
Combs woman.
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
Yes.
Yes.
I don't know her first name,though, but yes.
Eventually, Ruth was visitedagain by two siblings.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
Yes, boy and a girl, right?
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
Patrick and Rachel Richie.
So they last name is Richie, butstill fugates.
Yes.
And they came to see the nurse.
I don't really know why, but oneway or another, nurse Ruth and
Dr.
Cowan were able to convince thesiblings to let the doctor take
some blood samples.
And he noticed that their bloodwas darker, like a brown color.
SPEAKER_02 (32:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:38):
In some descriptions, I heard that it
was like thicker.
SPEAKER_02 (32:41):
Alright.
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
So I don't I don't know.
Again, not a doctor.
But he noticed it was brown.
Another thing I saw was thatsomeone described it as like
chocolate milk.
But yes.
So he was running some tests andhe was stumped.
He didn't know what was goingon.
Well he dove into his researchand he discovered that another
doctor encountered blue peoplein an isolated area in Alaska.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
Alaska?
While it's cold there.
SPEAKER_00 (33:06):
Yeah.
These were indigenous people.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
Oh.
Yes.
Like Inuits.
SPEAKER_00 (33:09):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (33:10):
And they were blue.
Huh.
I don't know what came of them,but this doctor discovered why
they were blue.
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
It's an oxygen issue in the blood, right?
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
Yes.
They were a different colorbecause they were missing an
enzyme, and this enzyme allowsthe blood to be oxygenated
properly.
Okay.
But without it, it's notoxygenated properly, so it makes
the blood a brown color, whichthen makes the skin look kind of
blue.
SPEAKER_02 (33:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
We have red blood in our skin, in our skin, in our
bodies, so my white pale skinhas a rosy glow because there's
red underneath.
If I had blue underneath, Iwould you'd probably see blue or
brown or something.
You know, there's some type.
Yeah.
We know what's happening here.
Dr.
Cowan goes back to the bloodsamples and he tests them for
(33:53):
this enzyme.
And sure enough, the fugateswere missing the enzyme.
SPEAKER_01 (33:57):
So that's the actual recessive trait.
SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
Yes, missing that enzyme.
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
Being blue itself is the effect.
SPEAKER_00 (34:03):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (34:04):
But yeah, the cause is the enzyme.
Or the trait is the same.
SPEAKER_00 (34:08):
I didn't want to give too much science up top.
I want to get the story outfirst.
Um but yes, the missing enzymeis the trait.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:15):
It's not even a pigment issue.
No.
It's a blood thing.
SPEAKER_00 (34:19):
Yeah.
And that's why everything elsewas like fine, because it was
just they were missing a littlebit of oxygen in their blood,
but everything seemed to workokay.
It's actually said that they arevery healthy.
Like they live easily into their70s, 80s, and 90s.
Yeah, they're like a strongfamily.
Yeah.
So Dr.
Cowan, now knowing what iswrong, starts playing with
(34:39):
different chemicals to see likehow to make this blood more
oxygenated.
Yes.
And he uses a substance calledmethylene blue.
And this blue chemical wouldallow the blood to turn to red
by carrying oxygen to the bloodthat it was missing.
So I think it's kind of ironicthat a blue chemical will make
them pink or white.
SPEAKER_02 (35:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:02):
But yeah.
So Patrick and Rachel allow Dr.
(36:11):
Cowan to inject them with thismethylene blue.
SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
And these two are like teenagers at the time,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
I don't know exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (36:18):
They're like not full adults.
They're like in the children toteen.
I don't think they're fulladults.
SPEAKER_00 (36:23):
I have no idea.
They're brother and sister, soI'm guessing they're probably
teen or young adults, but I Ireally did not look.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (36:31):
Seeing this on uh what was that show?
Mysteries at the Museum.
Remember that?
SPEAKER_00 (36:35):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:36):
With host Don Wildman.
SPEAKER_00 (36:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:39):
He's always walking on like a staircase.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
He was like a cool leather jacket.
Yeah.
And he had the coolest name, DonWildman.
SPEAKER_00 (36:45):
Oh, yeah.
But yes.
So the blue methylene, after itwas injected into Patrick and
Rachel, it worked.
Yeah, true.
Within a few minutes, actually.
I didn't know.
I thought it would take a fewdays, but no.
SPEAKER_01 (36:59):
Like see the blue immediately dissipating.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (37:01):
Within a few minutes, they were starting to
turn a pale pink skin tone.
SPEAKER_01 (37:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:06):
The effects were only temporary because you'd
like to pee it out basically.
SPEAKER_01 (37:10):
You had to get like normal or regular injections to
maintain your color.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
Dr.
Cowan made tablets.
SPEAKER_01 (37:15):
Oh, tablets.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
He gave them to them, sent them home with them,
gave them extra.
Like, here you go, this willhelp.
Take it whenever you need it.
There you go.
Now, one day, an older mountainman of the Fugate line came up
to Dr.
Cowan.
I don't know how long after, butafter, and he said, I can see
the old blue running out of myskin in a grateful tone.
Like, that's the only, that'sall I know about that story.
(37:38):
But Dr.
Cowan was happy.
He had their trust and he waslike, Cool, okay.
So now that he's gained theirtrust, they know that he's like
a good guy, he was able to askthem more questions.
SPEAKER_01 (37:49):
He wanted their lineage and yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:52):
He wanted to know the journey of this recessive
trait.
Where did it start?
Who started it?
Where did it come from?
SPEAKER_01 (37:57):
He was the first blue person that you recall in
your family tree kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (38:02):
Yes.
So he took down a bunch ofverbal accounts.
And he also, I saw in one placethat he spoke to like 180 family
members.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (38:13):
Sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (38:14):
Mm-hmm.
Well, he's talking to Richie's,he's talking to Smiths, like
family members meaning like thesprawling.
Yes, all of it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
The sprawl of Troublesome Creek.
SPEAKER_00 (38:23):
Yes.
He also looks a little bit intoofficial records of Perry
County, Kentucky, which is thecounty that Troublesome Creek is
in.
Okay.
So he looks to find maybe somebirth certificates, some
marriage licenses, anything likethat, just to kind of help dates
line up.
Um he doesn't go outside ofPerry County, though.
He doesn't look outside of that.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
So you gotta set a limit.
SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
For him, the origin of the Blue Fugates is Kentucky.
And that's where we get Martinbeing an orphan in 1820.
SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
Because he just shows up.
SPEAKER_00 (38:54):
Yep.
And that was pretty common evenin the 50s and 60s.
If someone didn't really knowwhere they came from, the person
would just say they're orphaned.
But it wasn't like a a a trickor anything.
It wasn't like back then, ifsomeone were to be like, oh,
actually he's not an orphan,this is what's going on, no one
would be like, You lied to us,Dr.
Cowan.
(39:14):
It would be like, well, okay.
And it solves that.
Yeah.
So he wasn't an orphan.
I think it was just the termused at the time because, like
you said, he has set limits.
He can't travel the wholecountry looking for where Martin
came from.
Dr.
Cowan was also confused by thetwo Zachariah Fugates.
He never mentioned that Martinand Zachariah both were adults
(39:38):
living there together.
He started the Fugate line withjust Martin.
Okay.
And then Zachariah, his son,married Ant.
unknown (39:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:47):
When Dr.
SPEAKER_00 (39:48):
Cowan started this.
SPEAKER_01 (39:49):
Okay.
So he got his genealogyincorrect.
And it just got repeatedthroughout the years.
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
Again, I don't think he, you know, he didn't mean to.
I think he's a scientist.
I think he would like to knowthe actual genealogy of it all,
but through verbal accounts andwhat little official records he
had, and maybe a Bible here orthere that was passed down from
the family might have somefamily notes in it, but that's
it.
So he's taking very fragmentedpieces and trying to create a
whole story.
(40:16):
So he fills in blanks.
Dr.
Cowan published his findings orhis case in 1964.
And right after it waspublished, or soon after,
journalists began to requestinterviews with Hilda Stacy.
They request interviews forother people too.
Um Stacy is another last name oftheir Stacy's, Richie's, Colin
(40:38):
Smith's.
Yeah.
So she's she's a Fugate lying.
Okay.
Last name of Stacy, though.
Her maiden name is Fugate.
Um, but she said that she didn'tlike the way the journalists and
reporters were just rude to her,asking very personal and
judgmental questions about howtheir family was intermarrying,
and she's really didn't like howmuch they were focused on that.
So this is where it all startswith like the press now knowing
(41:01):
about it, and they're like yes,sensationalizing it, making the
big deal.
And Hilda Stacy is just recordedas being the one that says we
don't like that.
Yeah.
The last descendant to be bornwith blue skin was Benjamin
Stacy.
SPEAKER_01 (41:15):
And when was he born?
SPEAKER_00 (41:16):
1975.
SPEAKER_01 (41:17):
Okay.
I thought it was in the 70s or80s that the last one was born
blue.
SPEAKER_00 (41:21):
Yep.
He's also known as Benji Stacy,if you see that name.
Same one.
Uh I believe he's still alivetoday.
SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
He'd only be 50.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:28):
I didn't see any death records or anything.
And, you know, he's livingpeacefully, I'm sure.
But yes, he was the lastdescendant that was born with
blue skin.
He was born in Lexington,Kentucky.
Okay.
And he's Hilda Stacy's son.
Did I say that already?
Whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (41:43):
Just yeah, whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (41:44):
I'll edit it out.
SPEAKER_01 (41:45):
All right, let's just admit it.
That didn't happen.
SPEAKER_00 (41:49):
Doctors were very shocked when this blue baby was
born.
Yeah.
And they were trying to figureout what was wrong, but Benji's
grandmother stepped in and waslike, eh, this is we're from the
Fuguet line.
Uh who runs in the family.
That's who we are.
SPEAKER_02 (42:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:02):
But Ben only had one recessive gene for it.
Okay.
So within a few weeks or a monthor so, he grew out of it.
SPEAKER_02 (42:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (42:09):
And I guess this did happen to a lot of the Fugate
lines when they did have arecessive gene, just one.
They could be born blue and thenthey grow out of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just works out.
I'm going to move forward nowwith the sensationalization of
that was fun to say.
Sensationalization of the Fugatefamily, because the press is now
(42:30):
on it.
Several family members wereinterviewed in a medical book
called Traits and Fates.
And they all basically, they'retrying to tell their story,
their side of it.
And they just said we alleventually came to accept the
color of our skin.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:44):
What else?
SPEAKER_00 (42:45):
And it was just normal to them now.
And Ben's mom, Hilda, Stacy, shejust shrugged it off and said,
It's common.
It's nothing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:52):
What do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
So they're trying to like tone it down.
They're like, can we just chillout?
It's not a big deal, guys.
Leave us alone.
SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Health other in any other way.
So it's not a big deal.
It's just not.
SPEAKER_00 (43:02):
It's not a big deal.
So now we're gonna jump into the1980s now.
SPEAKER_01 (43:06):
All right.
SPEAKER_00 (43:10):
Dr.
Cowan was approached by a showcalled That's Incredible.
SPEAKER_02 (43:16):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
And they wanted to parade the blue people across
the screen in their weeklydisplay of human oddities.
It's kind of how Dr.
Cowan looked at it.
He did say no.
He refused.
He didn't want to be a part ofthe show.
And the show was only on from1980 to 1984.
SPEAKER_02 (43:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (43:33):
So I didn't realize that.
Um, but yes, it's basically ifyou don't know it, very human
oddities being shoved in frontof your face and you get to ogle
at it.
SPEAKER_01 (43:43):
It's a televised sideshow.
SPEAKER_00 (43:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:46):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (43:47):
Barnaban Bailey for this era.
SPEAKER_00 (43:49):
Yeah.
Dr.
Cowan wasn't still like studyingany like their blood or anything
because he figured it out,right?
But he still kept in goodcontact with not in good was
some of them still reached outto him time to time when needing
help.
Like there was one instancewhere um I think one of the sons
of someone, a blue fugate line,he had a baby and he had he was
(44:10):
in the military, so he was outof the country, and his baby was
born blue, and he called Dr.
Cowan, like, what can I do?
And Dr.
Cowan was like, just have thatbaby, you know, give him the
injection and call it good.
Like, but they're still callinghim years later, which I think
was great.
So they have a good bond.
Dr.
Cowan didn't mean to like messup their family and lineage, he
(44:30):
was really trying to help.
Yeah.
There was also, which this wasfun to hear, a Hollywood film or
a documentary crew that wastrying to film them and do stuff
with them in Troublesome Creek,but they were chased away.
Apparently, each house they wentto had large guard dogs that
would chase them out.
SPEAKER_02 (44:48):
Nice.
SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
So yeah, they're like, we're done.
We don't care about you anymore,we're done.
SPEAKER_02 (44:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:54):
Nurse Ruth would go on to say that the blue fugates,
they were poor people, but theywere good.
So to know them is to love them.
You just have to know them.
Now let's talk about thatpainting.
SPEAKER_01 (45:10):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (45:10):
Because I was curious about that too, because
I always thought that that was arepresentation of them.
It's not.
Surprise.
Let's talk about it.
So as we know, the Fugate familystayed away from photography.
They probably didn't care aboutit much anyway, because it was
expensive back then.
And you know, but either way,they just didn't want it.
Like they didn't want to beseen, they didn't want their
(45:31):
photos taken ever because theywere scared that someone's going
to take their photo out ofTroublesome Creek and then show
them to the world.
SPEAKER_01 (45:39):
I think the first photo was taken in 1837.
But for the first I mean, I Idon't know when the first color
photo was taken, but I imaginethe first I mean the first 60,
70 years of photography.
SPEAKER_00 (45:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (45:50):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (45:53):
Not very well, but it wasn't like straight black
and white, though, was it thatsepia tone?
So that their skin would havelooked different.
SPEAKER_02 (45:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:59):
It would have looked different.
Yeah.
Either way, they they wereprivate, right?
They didn't want anyone knowingthat they existed.
They didn't want the outsideworld to know of them.
Even as photography became moreand more like in the 50s and
60s, there's just not a lot ofphotos of them because they were
blue.
They didn't want theirphotographs taken, or they just
never became public, right?
So the artist of this painting,he was asked to do the painting
(46:22):
of the Fugate family, the first,the Martin and Elizabeth, for a
1982 article.
So this painting is far morerecent.
Yes.
And the article was written forscience for Science magazine
called Science 82.
Okay.
It changes its year every year.
So it's Science 83.
SPEAKER_01 (46:42):
Some journal problem.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:44):
The artist was told the number of people in the
family, the number of children,and all that, but said rural
Kentucky family given like arough time period.
That's it.
SPEAKER_02 (46:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (46:55):
So he looked up like photos of people from back then
and just kind of made his ownidea of it.
So we have no idea how theyreally looked.
We've I he could have just doneany f any photo of anyone and
just done it.
And he was also told to paintfive of them blue, Martin being
the fifth.
SPEAKER_01 (47:12):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (47:13):
I think this painting is why so many people
think Martin Fugate was blue.
SPEAKER_01 (47:17):
Probably.
SPEAKER_00 (47:17):
I don't think he was.
I just don't.
And I think that's why Dr.
Cowan probably stopped at Martinand Elizabeth because I don't
think either of them were blue.
Yeah.
I think he goes, okay, itstarted with them.
Done.
I just that's what I think.
That's what I'm assuming from myresearch.
So yes, I understand thefrustration of the descendants
because there's a lot of bigdetails that are just wrong.
(47:38):
However, I understand whythey're wrong though, too.
Like I'm not mad about it.
Like no one's trying to mess upthis story.
It just kind of gotsensationalized.
And so there's not as muchintermarrying as you would
think.
That's what that's the takeaway,I think, from all of this.
SPEAKER_01 (47:56):
They're not it's not they're not blue because of
inbreeding.
SPEAKER_00 (48:00):
No.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
Because the Smith family didhave it.
So like even there there wasgoing to be blue people no
matter what.
Even like the first blue oneswere not connected in blood at
all.
So yeah.
That's it.
No.
Yeah, there wasn't too much.
SPEAKER_01 (48:15):
I mean, there are people who can become blue today
by taking too much colloidalsilver.
SPEAKER_00 (48:20):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just don't do that.
That's not good for you.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (48:24):
So if you see like blue people around you, that's
likely the cause.
SPEAKER_00 (48:28):
Yeah.
Don't take collodials, what howare you?
Colloidial silver.
I I don't know what benefits ithas.
It seems like when someonestarts it, it's bullshit woo-woo
stuff.
Stop it.
Yeah.
It's not healthy to turn yourskin blue.
SPEAKER_01 (48:43):
That's what I'm thinking of, yeah.
So she was God and she turnedblue.
SPEAKER_00 (48:46):
Yeah, and she basically like mummified in the
bed.
God, it's insane.
SPEAKER_01 (48:52):
But yeah, some I wonder if the fugits probably
not.
I was gonna say, I wonder ifthey're related to Carol Ann
Fugit, who was a killer.
She's the youngest woman to everbe sentenced to life in prison
in U.S.
history.
She was 14 when she wassentenced.
What did she do?
(49:13):
She was she's been releasedsince.
She was parled like in the 70s,and she lives in Michigan, last
I heard, as a nurse.
Or retired nurse.
She in the 1950s.
Oh, this is a famous case.
1950s.
This is in Nebraska.
Caroline Fugit, she was 14.
Her 17, 18-year-old boyfriend,Charles Starkweather, who was
like a James Dean wannabe.
SPEAKER_02 (49:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (49:35):
The two of them went on a road trip for like two,
three weeks, killing a bunch ofpeople.
SPEAKER_02 (49:39):
Oh, they're with her parents.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (49:42):
They killed her parents and then went on a road
trip wherever they stopped toget gas, they would just kill
people.
Charles Starkweather andCaroline Fugate.
Spelled the same, but I doubtthey're related because this was
in Nebraska.
SPEAKER_00 (49:54):
Yeah, that seems very I don't know if they went
that far west.
But um maybe.
I don't know.
I'm sure some of them have flownthe coop, right?
They're not all in Kentucky.
SPEAKER_01 (50:02):
But that's an interesting is interesting.
True crime case.
Charles Starkweather.
SPEAKER_00 (50:07):
Yeah, there was um there were some theories of the
blue fugates of like the silver.
Maybe they're just taking a lotof that, but that's not true.
There's something else theycould be eating that has a lot
of stuff in it, but that's nottrue.
SPEAKER_01 (50:18):
Um blueberries.
SPEAKER_00 (50:19):
Yeah, a bunch of blueberries.
SPEAKER_01 (50:21):
Drinking too much blue Gatorade.
SPEAKER_00 (50:23):
Yeah, blue Gatorade, blueberries.
Um, some people even thoughtthat maybe their skin was too
close or their their blood wastoo close to their skin.
Which I don't know why thatwould make it blue.
Oh, because you see your blueveins.
Maybe people thought becausethere was people did think back
in the day your blood was blue.
Like not scientists, becausethey drew blood, so they saw it,
(50:44):
but like anyway, you know whatI'm saying.
Yeah.
So no, none of that enzyme ismissing.
Yeah.
So they didn't do it tothemselves.
Yeah.
So yes, I hope you enjoyed theblue fugates.
That was interesting.
Yeah.
unknown (50:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:59):
So you can spread the good word, let people know
that they are not uh uhintermarried as much as others.
They see I mean, honestly, youshould all go on Facebook and
visit that that page.
It's public, it's open.
SPEAKER_01 (51:13):
They they want what's it called again?
SPEAKER_00 (51:15):
The f what is it called?
I have it written down.
SPEAKER_01 (51:18):
I know you mentioned earlier, but if you're gonna
plug it again, I know it's theFugates like families.
SPEAKER_00 (51:25):
Yeah, the Fugates Fugate families.
SPEAKER_01 (51:27):
Of Facebook.
SPEAKER_00 (51:28):
Yeah.
No, I mean it's not of Facebook.
Oh, so they don't have that inthe title.
But yes, a lot of them areposting their own DNA stuff that
they have found, and they see, Imean, I think there was some of
their family that fought in theRevolutionary War.
Like the Fugates came herebefore America was America.
So yeah, spread the word andalso share this episode.
(51:53):
You can, oh, there we go.
It's a good segue.
You can help spread the word bysharing this episode because
that also helps us.
So remember to like us on ApplePodcasts, Spotify Podcasts,
wherever you listen.
Sharing, engaging is veryhelpful.
We give you consent to share uswith your friends.
Um, also follow us on Instagramat borrowed bones podcast.
(52:14):
You can check out our merchsite.
You can always click just thelink that's under the show
description.
So just scroll down just alittle bit and you'll see a big
merch.
Also, our merch website isborrowedbones podcast.com.
So take a look at everything andyeah.
Yeah.
Until next time.
SPEAKER_01 (52:31):
Until next time, yes.
Yes.
The next time we use it.
Goodbye.
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