October 1, 2025 • 44 mins
As we reach the final chapter in our Brothers Grimm trilogy, we follow Jacob and Wilhelm through their golden years at the University of Berlin. We see how these scholarly siblings who have already transformed folklore collection into a science, continue to make history even in their twilight years.
Sources:
The German Fairytale Route, The Romantic Movement, The Polar Star,
Hans Christian Andersen, Frankfurt National Assembly, Grimms Fairytales
E-Mail the show at BorrowedBonesPodcast@proton.me
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hello everyone.
I'm Sarah.
And I'm Sam.
And you're listening to BorrowedBones.
A podcast about fucked up,interesting, and toxic families.
I wish we could harmonize that.
SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
Like you do borrowed bones, and I'll be like,
borrowed bones.
unknown (00:18):
Or something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
I'd have to do some like smelly cat thing though,
like Phoebe, because I'm gettingover a cold, so I feel a little
nasally today.
Borrowed bones.
Borrowed.
I can't do it.
Come on.
Borrowed bone.
I'm flat as hell.
Same, same here.
Okay.
(00:42):
Today, aside from harmonizing,we are in our third and final
part of The Brothers Grimm.
unknown (00:50):
Woo!
SPEAKER_00 (00:50):
Yay! The second one was very history heavy, which I
personally really enjoy.
It was.
It was, I liked it.
It was just a lot ofinformation.
Yeah.
Well, these boys did a lot.
They sure did.
And I've said this a milliontimes, but like eight months of
researching them, and I stillfeel like I can learn more.
But anyway.
(01:11):
I'm gonna do a deep dive afterthis on some more stuff.
Yes.
What's crazy though is it's hardto find a deep dive.
I have books for you if you wantthem.
Books are really where it's at.
I'm not a reader.
I mean, I like to read, butyeah, I really my attention span
is not not reading.
I'll read the same page ahundred times and then I'll give
up and be like, okay, I'm alldone.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was hard.
(01:31):
I gave up a few times.
So there's no documentaries oranything.
I mean, not that I found.
There's a few like in theirlater years as adults.
There's not much about themgrowing up, though.
There's not much about theirfamily, their siblings.
No Lottie.
Yeah.
We love Lottie.
SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
We love Lottie.
SPEAKER_00 (01:51):
In part two, we left off with Wilhelm and Jacob
moving to Berlin to work at theUniversity of Berlin.
Okay.
And this is 1841.
SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
And they're leaving Kassel.
Yep.
Which is where they did most oftheir living and growing up.
It's where most of their familyis.
Their mother and dad are buriedthere.
Um, oh, they're also working onthe German dictionary right now.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
Yeah.
The com the one they werecommissioned to do together.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Yes.
All right.
So now we're in Berlin.
And Jacob is 56 and Wilhelm is55.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
They were able to work on their side projects a
lot more at the University ofBerlin, unlike when they were in
Gottingen, because they had morework to do in at that university
in Gottingen.
They had to be professors andlibrarians.
But at the University of Berlin,they're they have a lot more
freedom.
I think the Gottingen Seven thathappened really polarized the
(02:57):
Grimms and those sevenprofessors, right, throughout
Germany.
And so the people that lovedthem loved them, but then people
hated them because of thepolitical um turmoil?
Not turmoil.
Sure.
Political tenseness.
Yeah.
So the University of Berlin arepeople that really like them.
So they're like, just come here,do whatever you want, guys.
SPEAKER_01 (03:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
It's chill.
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
Yeah.
We're just chilling over here.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
Yeah.
They lectured periodically, kindof whenever they wanted.
Wilhelm was a great lecturer andhe loved it, but Jacob did it
just whenever he, I guess, wasbored or something.
They weren't full-timeprofessors.
They're kind of not inretirement, but they're finally
able to do their hobbies.
Okay.
And they did publish the fifthedition of Children's and
(03:44):
Household Tales.
So they're still doing revisionsand adding.
Yes.
It's crazy.
It never ends.
It just keeps going.
In 1844, Jacob was awarded theSwedish Order of the Polar Star.
Wow.
And this award was created in1748 in Sweden to recognize
(04:09):
personal endeavors for Sweden orfor Swedish interests.
They felt that Jacob's workdoing the fairy tales and
whatnot benefited Sweden as wellas Germany, as well as France.
Because again, he did getstories from there as well.
SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
Sure.
See.
Do you also do you know whichstories specifically maybe came
from Sweden?
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
No, dang.
I didn't look that up.
Man.
Yeah.
Okay.
There's so much else.
I'm just kidding.
You can look it up yourself.
Good.
Anyway, Jacob also received abunch of other awards around
this time, and he was justfinally getting that recognition
that he really deserved.
(04:52):
Like I said, he's always beenwell received in the scholarly
world, but now that he's older,his life's works are starting to
really get recognition.
They're finally being noticed ina bigger way.
Also, what was interesting whenthey were living in Berlin,
Jacob Grimm and Hans ChristianAnderson were kind of friends.
(05:14):
Really?
Yes.
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
We're in 1846 now.
So Hans, if you are familiar,but if those that are listening
are not familiar, Hans ChristianAndersen, he wrote fairy tales
as well.
Not as well.
He wrote fairy tales.
The Grimms did not write fairytales.
Okay.
They didn't.
Let's make that clear.
They did not.
They collected Hans wrote them.
(05:36):
Yes.
The Disney movie Frozen is basedoff of Hans Christian Andersen's
story, The Snow Queen.
And he also wrote other fairytales like The Princess and the
Pea, Thumbelina, and ourmother's favorite, The Little
Mermaid.
I did not know that about her.
SPEAKER_01 (05:54):
Yeah.
How do you know that?
SPEAKER_00 (05:56):
Well, I don't know if it was her personal favorite,
but she said it was her favoritebecause it's the came out the
same year on VHS that we wereborn.
SPEAKER_01 (06:04):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (06:04):
Yeah.
So I don't know if that turnedinto her favorite because of us,
but she always said that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:11):
That's so nice.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
Hans introduced himself first to Jacob Grimm.
Kind of.
Okay.
He he lives in Copenhagen.
That's where he's from.
And he visited Germany, Berlin,just because he was there.
He did not let Jacob know he wascoming.
Hans had heard of Jacob beforeJacob heard of him.
So he goes to Jacob's house andis like, hey, I'm here.
(06:34):
But Jacob wasn't available atthe time.
He wasn't there.
So they never saw each other.
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
Huh.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
Jacob was told that Hans Christian Andersen came and
visited, and Jacob didn't knowwho he was.
And then he figured it out.
He did some research becausehe's Jacob.
Yep.
And he was like, all right, Iknow who he is now.
Okay.
Once Jacob figured out who HansChristian Anderson was, it's
been a few weeks since Hanstried to visit him.
(07:00):
So a few weeks later, Jacob goesto Copenhagen.
I'm having a hard time sayingthat because my nose and my
nasaliness.
Copenhagen.
Copenhagen.
Copenhagen.
Jacob goes to Copenhagen tovisit Hans, and they did meet.
And Jacob assured Hans that,yes, I do know who you are.
(07:21):
And I am aware of some of yourworks.
Yes.
Got you.
Perfect.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Does he become like a thropple with the brothers?
SPEAKER_00 (07:29):
No, but I think they have a few visits here and there
because then in the winter of1846, Hans visits both brothers
in Berlin.
And Wilhelm was really excitedabout this because he finally
gets to meet him.
And Hans Christian Andersen readaloud his stories to Wilhelm and
Jacob.
Oh my God.
Yes.
That's amazing.
(07:49):
They got to be told stories fromHans's mouth.
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
Those boys.
I know.
Man.
I know.
Writing Sir Walter Scott inScotland for fairy tales and
then just hanging out with HansChristian Anderson.
What a time to be alive.
Napoleon's just an annoyance.
Well, Napoleon actually carvedpretty much who they are as
people.
Yeah.
But damn, they lived in quite atime.
(08:15):
It's crazy.
But then a couple years later,in 1848, another revolution in
Paris.
Awesome.
France needs to just calm down.
They need to relax.
All the history of France.
Relax.
So of course the German kingdomsgot worried again, and the king
(08:40):
fortified Berlin.
And Wilhelm and Jacob werecaught right in the middle of it
all, yet again.
They had to barricade themselvesinside their apartment until the
fighting stopped.
The Grims also would give liketheir soldiers on their side
food, water, whatever they couldto help.
They're just in it all the way,all the time.
(09:02):
In the aftermath of therevolution, Jacob was called to
represent a voting district inWestern Germany at the Frankfurt
National Assembly.
Yeah.
So this is the first freelyelected parliament for the
German-speaking lands.
So they were trying to make aunified Germany at this time.
(09:25):
And they're like, okay, this isour chance to get together.
It didn't work.
They're not unified yet, butthey're trying.
And Jacob is there.
Jacob's there for it.
He was 63 at this time.
Okay.
And in some of his own writing,he's like, I'm only here as an
old fart.
It's just symbolic.
Like he didn't really doanything, but a lot of um, there
(09:46):
were a few other professors fromthe Gottingen 7 as well.
So it was more of arepresentation.
Sure.
Which is still important.
Yeah.
Jacob also completed histwo-volume history of the German
language in this year of 1848.
It was a big year.
The Paris, another revolution,trying to unify Germany.
(10:09):
And then he's like, I got thisbig old history of the German
language ready to go.
And he said that that was hisgreatest work.
unknown (10:16):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (10:17):
History of the German language.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
Mm-hmm.
And they're still working onthat German dictionary, too.
Still happening.
SPEAKER_01 (10:24):
Still in the background.
It's still happening.
SPEAKER_00 (10:25):
All the time.
Mm-hmm.
On Jacob's 67th birthday inJanuary of 1852, the brothers
finally received the firstproofs of the dictionary.
And they would work on thisdictionary for 12 hours a day,
they said.
But the dictionary would only bereleased in installments because
(10:46):
they would get like a fewletters done, and then that
would be released.
So the first installment waspublished in 1852.
And that was 14 years after theannouncement of it.
So it's already been 14 years.
So there was no other Germandictionary before this?
SPEAKER_01 (11:05):
Or did they just like here?
You guys are good at writingthings and storytelling and you
know language in general.
SPEAKER_00 (11:13):
So here you go.
I never looked into that part.
We need to look it up nowbecause I can't move on without
knowing.
Get your phone out.
Okay, look it up.
When was the first Germandictionary published?
You got it?
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
I got it.
So it says the first true Germandictionary was published in
1561.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
So well, they're doing something with this German
dictionary.
SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
They did something with the dictionary.
SPEAKER_00 (11:38):
Yep.
Like I said, I could not getdeep into all of their projects,
and this is a long one.
So I'm assuming it's just morecomprehensive, has more details
to it, has more notes to it, hasmore definitions to it.
I'm guessing it's just a veryin-depth dictionary.
That's what I gathered from itanyway, that it is like a big
old dictionary.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
Yeah.
That's what we're gonna call it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
It's a big old German dictionary.
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
That's right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
All right.
Two years later, in 1854,finally the complete first
volume of the dictionary waspublished, and it contained
letter A and part of letter B.
And the first volume was over1,800 pages.
What?
Yes.
So they have like notes and theyhave more than definitions.
(12:32):
Yeah.
Way more than that going on.
History of the language, andsure.
It's a lot that they've got inthat.
unknown (12:39):
Man.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (12:41):
And by this time now, like I said, the brothers
are getting older, Jacob's 67,Wilhelm 66.
They fell into a nice routine inBerlin.
They would work in theirstudies, they each had their own
study, and they were often goingin and out of each other's
offices to get books from oneanother.
They always had books scatteredabout.
(13:02):
They would spend all day workingon this dictionary.
And as they were still gettingolder, they stopped lecturing
students and they slowly slippedaway from going to social
gatherings and they just focusedon their small group of friends
and family.
Oh, isn't that cute?
Yeah, that's cute.
SPEAKER_01 (13:21):
Do they live together?
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
Yeah, they still live together.
So they live together.
With Dorthin and like Dortchin.
Yeah, Herman and Rudolph andAugusta.
Yeah, they're all there.
They're all there.
Okay.
Uncle Jacob, Papa Jacob.
Papa Jacob.
Yeah.
Their younger brother, Carl,passed away while living in
Castle in 1852.
(13:43):
Wilhelm's son, Herman, hestopped studying law and he
began writing novellas anddramas.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
Herman also studied art history and he would go on
to become an art historian and aprofessor at the University of
Berlin.
Yay, Herman.
Just yeah.
I like to know where people endup.
Yeah.
Herman's younger brother,Rudolph, he went for a military
career, and the youngestdaughter, Augusta, she stayed
(14:13):
home and she would help Dortchenwith the household.
Okay.
So the boys went off, and thennow as adults, we have Wilhelm,
Jacob, Dortchen, and Augusta inthe same home.
Okay.
Scholars and dignitaries wouldvisit the Grimms regularly as
they got older.
And these visitors would oftensay that Dorton was very loving.
Wilhelm was warm-hearted, andthat Jacob could be
(14:36):
intimidating, but he wasquick-witted with a hearty
laugh.
That sounds like Jacob.
Yep.
That's him all right.
Like one of those like teddybears under the hard exterior,
you know?
Right.
Their fairy tales, thechildren's and household tales,
would go on to have seven totaleditions that the Grimms would
publish.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (14:56):
The seventh and final one being published in
1857.
I say final lightly though,because more editions were
published like post their death,but they published seven.
SPEAKER_01 (15:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
I gotta get myself this book.
I know.
I gotta find it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:12):
They never saw true glory or fame while they were
alive.
Like I said, they were respectedin their circles.
Academics and scholars knew whothey were, but they weren't like
just off the streets, peoplelike, hey Jacob, hey Wilhelm,
thanks for the stories.
Yeah, like it just didn't happenthat way.
Yeah.
They never made much money offof their works while they were
alive, and they spent most oftheir lives struggling to
(15:35):
provide a comfortable life fortheir family.
Like kind of reminds me of likeEdgar Allan Poe and like the
classical musicians and theartists that just they suffer
through life.
And they don't see the benefitsor they don't reap the rewards.
Nope.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Not at all.
SPEAKER_00 (15:52):
In 1858, there was this man that marketed a book of
fairy tales for himself, but itwas plagiarized from the Grimms.
And the Grimms did take legalaction.
But by the time this man wasforced to pay them anything,
both Wilhelm and Jacob werepassed away.
SPEAKER_01 (16:11):
Aww.
SPEAKER_00 (16:12):
They never even got that.
When they finally startedfighting for their rights.
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:16):
That's sad.
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
December 16th, 1859, Wilhelm passes away at the age
of 73.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
Oh, Wilhelm went first.
Oh he's a sickly guy.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
That's true.
A few days before his death,there was a cluster of boils
that developed on his back thatrequired surgery.
Oh.
It was called somethingspecific, and I don't know how
to say it, but it said that itstarted from like bacteria and
that created the boils.
Okay.
Was that like MRSA?
No, it was like with a C.
Uctus.
(16:49):
That's not it, but it was likesomething c yeah.
Okay.
But it said boils and bacteria.
Okay.
And then when he grew feverishafter the surgery, Jacob got
worried and he sat near him, andJacob counted Wilhelm's breaths
as he had done so many timesthroughout Wilhelm's life.
(17:10):
Jacob would always sit by himwhen he got sick and like, Oh,
that makes me so many.
SPEAKER_01 (17:15):
Don't cry because I'm making me sick.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
I'm gonna cry.
Don't, don't.
SPEAKER_02 (17:21):
I'm gonna cry.
SPEAKER_00 (17:22):
There's more.
SPEAKER_02 (17:23):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
Wilhelm became delirious and he thought that
Jacob was a picture and notactually present.
Oh.
Yeah.
Wilhelm's funeral was themorning of December 20th.
And when his coffin was setdown, Jacob threw a handful of
earth on him.
Yeah.
Jacob said that he felt half ofhim was gone.
(17:46):
Oh no.
I know.
I know.
There's more.
Oh no.
In July of 1860, seven monthsafter Wilhelm's death, Jacob was
saying a memorial speech at theAcademy of Sciences in Berlin.
And he was speaking aboutWilhelm.
Jacob said how he and Wilhelmshared a bed when they were
(18:08):
schoolboys, and then they hadtwo beds in the same room with
desks while they were at auniversity.
And then later in life, they hadtwo desks in the same study, and
then they had two studies underthe same roof.
Aw.
Yeah, he's just reflecting ontheir life too.
Yeah.
And now at this point, wheneverJacob would hold children's and
(18:31):
household tales, he said he feltas if he could see Wilhelm on
every page.
Okay, that's great.
And he acknowledged that Wilhelmwas the driving force behind the
fairy tales for quite a fewdecades.
He was like, I lost it, andWilhelm kept kept it.
Wilhelm did great.
Yeah.
After Wilhelm's death, Jacob andhis nephew Herman registered to
(18:54):
copyright the children'shousehold tales so that no one
else could steal it again.
I don't know this to be a fact,but I believe it to be true.
I think Jacob did this becausehe doesn't want Wilhelm's work
being stolen.
Yeah.
I think he's protecting hisbrother.
I think so too.
I don't think he cares abouthimself that much.
SPEAKER_01 (19:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
Jacob left the door to Wilhelm's study open and his
papers and books untouched.
He did eventually move hislibrary into Wilhelm's study,
but he never touched Wilhelm'sdesk.
He left it right where it was.
But that German dictionary stillneeds to be worked on.
And then the damn dictionary.
(19:36):
It's still there.
It's still there.
Oh yeah.
This fucking dictionary.
They hated it.
They ended up hating this thing.
They hated it.
Uh Jacob is now working onletters E and F.
Oh my god, they're only at E andF.
Wilhelm completed all of letterD before he died.
Oh, good.
So he did that.
(19:57):
Okay.
And in the preface of the secondvolume of the dictionary that
was published in 1860, Jacobkind of apologizes to the
readers.
He says in this preface, hesays, Wilhelm did most of the
writing with the first volume.
And I hope that the reader stillis okay with my style.
(20:22):
Wilhelm was more visual anddescriptive than Jacob was, and
Jacob knew that.
And Jacob in his preface said,you know, you could really see
what Wilhelm meant.
He would show you through hiswords.
And Jacob was just more academicand uniform in his writing.
And as I've mentioned in theprevious uh episodes, Jacob
(20:43):
always got onto Wilhelm for notbeing academic enough in his
writing.
He was like, you gotta be morehistorical.
We're trying to preserve, we'renot creating, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:52):
But now Jacob says he's happy to see his brother's
voice jump off the page.
Yeah.
unknown (20:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
Jacob.
I know.
He's really deep soul.
He is a deep soul.
I think that's why he has aharsh exterior.
Because once you crack it, it'slike you're all in.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Their younger brother Ludwigwould pass away in 1863.
He's the artist.
Okay.
I don't know how all of thebrothers and sisters died, but
I'd just like to note that theypassed away as well.
(21:22):
Now Jacob is the oldest Grimm,as he always has been, and he's
the last Grimm remaining.
Because their brother Ferdinandpassed away in 1848.
Yeah.
Man.
Yeah.
Aside from his like niece andnephews, and Dortchen's still
alive, but he's the last one ofhis family.
Right.
Yeah.
In the late summer of 1863,Jacob took a break from his work
(21:47):
and he traveled with Dortchenand Augusta to the mountains of
northern Germany.
Took a little break.
Good.
Upon his return, he got a cold.
And that cold turned into aninflamed liver.
Okay.
That's what it was described as.
So I'm not sure what that means.
Alright.
Yep.
(22:07):
I don't know.
And he was treated with leechesand calomel.
It was a mercury chloridemineral, like white powder
thing.
Mercury.
SPEAKER_01 (22:19):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:20):
Yeah.
That's probably why I don't knowwhat it is.
Yeah, it's not used anymore, Idon't think.
Yeah.
Yeah, I looked at I was like,what the fuck?
Mercury is not common.
No.
No.
Jacob would get better duringthe day, but he would break out
into fevers at night.
And the day sorry.
The day before he passed away,he got out of bed, he leaned
(22:41):
against a wicker chair, and madehis way to the window.
Augusta tried to talk to him,but he did not respond, and
instead he fell against her.
He was having a stroke.
He grew feverish and slept intothe next day, and upon
awakening, his right side wasparalyzed along with his left
hand.
(23:01):
As he lay dying, he wasconscious, and he seemed to
understand what was being saidto him, but he could not talk.
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
He pointed to a picture of Wilhelm.
And when they gave it to him, hebrought it close to his eyes and
he set it down on the bed.
I know.
Oh no.
I've been with them for so long.
Now they're dead.
The fuck?
Defer.
So Jacob died on Sunday,September 20th, 1863, at the age
(23:31):
of 78, about four years afterWilhelm.
Jacob was surrounded by hisbooks that he and Wilhelm
amassed over their lifetime.
Okay.
And Jacob was always concernedabout what would happen to their
collection once they passed.
I mean, that takes a long time.
Right.
So nephew Herman, he kept a fewhundred books.
(23:53):
About a thousand books were soldoff.
Wow.
And the rest were kept allintact and given to the library
at the University of Berlin.
And I looked quickly and I'mpretty sure you can still see
these books.
I mean, they're still there.
I don't know if you can touchthem or see them, but they're
still at the university.
And I guess they have likehandwritten notes in them from
(24:14):
the brothers.
Yeah.
Probably a lot from Jacob, I'mguessing.
SPEAKER_02 (24:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:18):
But I think that's cool.
I would like to see that.
Yeah, that is really cool.
I think that's that's reallycool.
Yeah.
Should totally go there.
Oh, we have so much.
Um I'm gonna tell you what we'regonna do.
Okay, great.
You just wait, can't wait.
Jacob was buried next to hisbrother in Berlin.
And Jacob's grave was adornedwith flowers, and there was a
wreath with white roses andribbons that said to the friend
(24:41):
of the youth from thankfulchildren.
Oh I know.
I think by this point he's oldenough.
He's 78, right?
SPEAKER_02 (24:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
And I think that these kids now are old enough to
have grown up with the Grimfairy tales.
SPEAKER_01 (24:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Because he started in the 30s when he was in his
30s, and then these kids wereyounger, and now they're
probably adult children, andthey're like, I remember the
Grimm.
So that's at the end of theirlife is when they're getting
this notoriety.
But that's how it works.
It takes a while.
It does.
After Jacob's death, Dortchenand Augusta moved into another
(25:18):
apartment in Berlin, andDortchen will pass away from a
respiratory illness in 1867.
SPEAKER_01 (25:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (25:25):
And neither Rudolph nor Augusta married.
Only Herman married, and he andhis wife never had children.
Huh.
None of Wilhelm's kids had kids.
None of them.
Jacob didn't have kids.
Wilhelm's kids didn't have kids.
So there's no direct line.
That's crazy.
Lottie had kids, so they'restill Grimms, but there's no
(25:48):
direct descendants.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
That's sad.
Isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (25:52):
Man.
I mean, I'm not I mean, I getit.
Yeah, like I'm not aboutbreeding just to breed, like
think about it, but also likedamn.
Yeah.
Damn.
Rudolph passed away in 1889, andHerman died in 1901, and Augusta
died in 1919.
Okay.
So that is their lives.
(26:14):
Wow.
Yes.
And there's a lot that happenedafter them.
Not a whole lot, not too crazy.
Okay.
But after they died, theirimpact definitely lasted.
Their work became even more wellknown as a beacon for Germans to
turn toward whenever their wayof life was at risk.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
In the late 1800s and the early 1900s, the Grimms
became more publicly well known.
Like, for example, there's apark in Berlin where a fountain
with sculptures of the Grimmsfairy tale creat creatures.
SPEAKER_02 (26:48):
Creatures.
SPEAKER_00 (26:49):
Fairy tale creatures.
Um sculptures of the Grimmsfairy tale characters were
started in this park being builtin the 1890s, and it was
completed in 1913.
Now we're stepping further intothe 20th century around World
War II time.
There's no more kingdoms,Prussia's gone.
We have Germany now.
Okay.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (27:10):
But the boys weren't a part of that, so that's why
we're not talking about it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
Yeah, no.
Yeah.
I honestly looked up real quickand I was like, I don't want to
get into this.
I feel so bad for the people ofGermany that have to learn
German history.
It is a lot.
Yeah.
Oh, at least America's young.
Like we don't have that muchhistory to go through.
Yeah.
Man.
So during World War II time,their children's and household
(27:37):
tales was marketed broadly inGermany.
And there were select grim talesthat began to appear in school
bird school books.
Okay.
It's hard for me to talk becauseI can't breathe through my
notes.
So their story started to getinto the schoolwork of European
nations and also North America.
(27:57):
European nations.
I want to say Europe and NorthAmerica.
European.
European.
So again, Germany's reallystarting to take in the
brothers' grimm.
Unfortunately, Germany went alittle too wild with it, and
(28:18):
they created this nationalismand xenophobia kind of.
Uh-oh.
Yeah.
Ratro.
Yeah, they went a little toonationalistic with it.
Um, we all know what's happeningin Germany in World War II time
frame.
The the powers at bee duringthat time, the Nazi Party, um,
(28:38):
the SS, if you will, they reallytook the Grims and they were
like, this is Germannationalism, this is our
culture, these are our people,and these Grims know what's up.
So the Grims can sometimes havea negative reputation to some
people who don't know enoughabout them.
Yeah.
The Grims themselves did not dothat.
Yeah.
They were trying to preserve theGermany that they were watching
(29:00):
get wiped away.
SPEAKER_01 (29:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:02):
This was not the case.
By the French.
Yes, by the French.
By the French.
Not the Jewish people.
Not the Jewish.
No.
So the popularity of the Grimmsfairy tales got really big
during World War II.
And after the war, many Germanswere trying to bring the name of
the Grims back to their rightfulreputation.
(29:23):
They were like, that was a lot.
Stop.
Don't do that.
And they made it known that theGrims collected stories as a way
to preserve their cultureinstead of trying to be like,
we're better than you.
We're this nationalistic group.
We're they're not better.
They're just, we exist.
Yeah.
That's it.
Okay.
But yeah, some people will tellyou that the Grims are
(29:43):
anti-Semitic.
I mean, they're honestly alittle, you know, chauvinistic,
womanizers, a little racist,probably.
I mean, all the things that youwere back then, but nothing more
than the norm.
SPEAKER_01 (29:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Okay.
Yeah.
The German dictionary.
unknown (29:59):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
We're not done.
We're back at it.
It was finally finished in 1961.
Wow.
Yes.
And I didn't want to go downthat rabbit hole of all of what
it was and why it took thatlong.
And I don't care.
Okay.
I don't.
Yep.
All right.
That's something for you toexplore on your own.
Sure.
And that is pretty much it forthe Grimms.
(30:25):
It tracks, I think, that theboys would die with work still
left to be done.
That that German dictionary wasa hefty load for them to take on
late in life.
Yeah.
I don't think they would haveever died with completed works
all around.
They would have been working, Ithink, until they died.
Yeah.
I wanted to touch on one thing.
There's a theory.
(30:46):
Okay.
That Jacob Grimm is gay.
Okay.
Touch on this because a lot ofpeople ask about it.
It's not, it doesn't matter.
But people always ask.
And it's always brought up.
I saw it a lot in my research.
Okay.
There's no evidence.
There's nothing to say he was orwasn't.
He didn't have romanticrelationships.
He was a scholar, an academic.
(31:07):
He did his work and he was justa man who lived with his family.
That's it.
There's no more craziness to it.
There's no secret life.
There's no like he didn't hide,there's nothing.
SPEAKER_01 (31:17):
I wonder why that's even like a popular question.
SPEAKER_00 (31:20):
Because he never because he didn't have a
romantic life.
Oh.
So people are just assumingthat's weird.
Yeah.
That's it.
He's different.
Must be gay.
Like, okay.
That's it.
Yeah.
Got it.
I personally think that Jacob isjust a very deep soul and feels
very deeply.
And he's the oldest of hisfamily, of the child of the
(31:41):
children.
He saw his dad die.
He, we know, was close with hisgrandfather.
He was close with his mom.
He was the one who had to puteverything on his shoulders.
He would constantly think thatWilhelm was dying every time he
got sick.
Like he counted his breaths alot.
I don't think Jacob had it roomfor someone else.
That's true.
(32:02):
Because you got a lot.
You lose people.
Like I don't want every time Ilose someone to death, I don't
want to just replace them andadd another.
I don't want to lose any morepeople.
Aw.
So I feel you, Jacob.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I think.
We do.
We understand Jacob.
We get it.
And then finally, my last thingI want to talk about.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:22):
There is the German fairy tale route.
What?
That we should go on.
Ooh.
You can follow in the footstepsof the brothers Grimm.
Oh my God.
From Hanau to Bremen.
Really?
It's 600 kilometers, so about373 miles.
Okay.
And it hits 70 locations, andthey're all connected to the
(32:43):
Grimms or their fairy tales.
Like you can see the castlewhere Sleeping Beauty slept, or
Punzel's Tower.
You can see where the Grimmsgrew up and lived, all of it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
Oh my God, that sounds like the best time.
I want to go.
How long would that take?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
I have no idea.
I have the website, though I'lllink it in the show notes.
Cool.
I point down as if I'm like onit.
We're gonna link it right here.
And there's not even a camera onit.
It's just me recording.
That sounds amazing, though.
Yeah, we should do that.
That would be really cool.
I want to do that.
Yeah, there's a lot about thebrothers Grimm in Germany, just
(33:23):
anywhere you go.
I I bet.
I believe it.
Because they were a part ofeverything.
Yeah.
I did everything.
I think more.
If any founding father are.
I I don't know if any Germanswould agree.
I think that.
I think that.
Yeah.
That's what I would feel.
SPEAKER_01 (33:40):
Also, I don't know a lot about German history before
that time.
So no.
SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
There's a lot of Holy Roman Empire history there.
I'm all set.
I don't want to get into that.
I don't want to know.
I want to learn more about fairytales.
Yes, let's focus on that.
Because the Grims did enough.
Yeah.
But yeah, that's that's it.
This is a shorter of the threeparts.
I didn't want to shove all thisin because there's again a lot
(34:07):
of information.
So I just wanted this one to bea little bit shorter.
Just a quick soup.
I don't know what do that again.
unknown (34:14):
Soup.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
That sounds fun.
I like it.
Soup.
Okay, I'm done.
I can't do it.
Well, I have a little gap in myteeth still.
SPEAKER_01 (34:25):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (34:25):
It's still there.
The tiniest little gap.
That's right.
When I had my Invisalign done, Itold the doctor not to shut it
all the way.
He had it closed up all the way,and I said, uh-uh.
Uh-uh.
That's a piece of Sarah.
That's that you closing up.
Uh-uh.
Don't you do it.
Just close it a little to makeit cute.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Keep your spaces.
(34:46):
Keep your gaps.
That's right.
Yeah, but that's it.
That's it.
Let's go on the fairy tale tour.
Um, you said you want to takeour nephew when he graduates
high school to Europe.
Well, let's go to Germany.
Okay.
Did you say Europe in general ordid you have an idea?
I said ink like London.
Oh, you specifically want to goto London.
Can we go to Germany?
Yeah.
(35:06):
And can I I'm adding myself tothis show.
Sure.
I wanted to go to Londonspecifically because I want to
go on the Jack the Ripper tour.
We could probably do both.
We don't realize how smallEurope is in ja as a continent.
I mean, it's not small, likeit's a big continent, but like
the countries are closer than werealize because we're Americans
and everything's big as fuckhere.
(35:27):
Like I think we could do it.
We could do it.
Just go for like two or threeweeks and just travel Europe.
Interesting.
That would be fun.
SPEAKER_01 (35:36):
I'd have to save up a lot of PTO time for my job.
SPEAKER_00 (35:40):
Yes.
Well, good thing our nephew isin middle school.
Great.
We have time.
Perfect.
However, I think it's like asome type of anniversary or
something this year that we justmissed for the fairy tale.
I saw it on one of theirwebsites and I just went, nope,
disassociate.
I couldn't go anyway.
Can't afford that right now.
Yeah, yeah.
In this economy.
(36:04):
All right, but that's it for thebrothers Grimm.
And I do feel like agrimarologist.
I'm gonna make that a thing.
If it's not, I'm one.
You're a riperologist, I'm agrimerologist.
All right.
And we will go to London andGermany.
London specifically.
Okay.
I know that's not a country.
I know I said it like it was.
It's not.
Stupid Americans.
(36:24):
Stupid.
Oh, also, I am still working onmy merch.
It's gonna be out pretty soon.
I've ordered some products formyself to make sure that they're
good quality and everything.
So once I do a quality check, Iwill present everything to the
public.
And I hope you guys like itbecause I do.
So yeah.
Be on the lookout for that.
If you want the latest updatesabout it, you can follow me on
(36:47):
Instagram at borrowed bonespodcast.
And I'm guessing, Sam, for thethird time, no Instagram
followers.
You don't want to care.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
I mean, you can find me if you I mean, if you want,
you can find me.
SPEAKER_00 (36:58):
But I've tagged her a few times and things, but you
have to you have to work at itto be her friend.
You have to work really hard.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
Yes.
I only talk to my sisters.
Yeah.
When we write letters to eachother.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
We should start.
That would be fun.
I would want to get like a inkthough, like old school desk.
Um, the desk I have from grandmaactually is old school, and I do
have a little inkwell in it.
Interesting.
So I can put like ink and likepens and do like a quill.
I want to get my own like stampfor the seal.
SPEAKER_01 (37:32):
You know what?
I I'm obsessed with stampvideos.
Oh god.
I love them so much.
SPEAKER_00 (37:37):
Like the wax stamps?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (37:39):
I love them.
I want to stamp just to do that.
Maybe I should make that formercy.
I don't know, man.
I got nothing to stamp.
I'm not sending letters thesedays.
SPEAKER_00 (37:51):
Me either.
SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
But it looks really fun, and I love watching the
videos.
So keep it up, whoever you are.
SPEAKER_00 (37:56):
Yeah, whoever's making those stamps, keep it up.
We love him.
I haven't watched them, but Iwill know.
I love the stamps.
I've been into YouTube a lot.
I've been watching Kevin Lang.
He's really funny, him and hispeople.
I don't know who that is.
It's so funny.
Kevin Lang, and then there'sDenny, and then there's Herm.
He's my fave.
And then I don't know if anyoneelse watches this at all, but I
(38:19):
love them.
And they have like millions offollowers.
Like it's wild how big theinternet is and how big this
world is because you havemillions of followers, and no
one I know, though, knows whothey are.
I'm like the only person in myworld that follows them.
Yeah.
Anyway, any listeners out there,if you also watch Kevin Lang, uh
let me know.
(38:39):
I don't want to be alone inthis.
But that's it.
A nice short one this week.
It was sad.
I know.
We both cried.
I didn't know if you were gonnacry or not.
And I was like, God damn it,Sam, don't cry.
SPEAKER_01 (38:50):
Don't start with me.
SPEAKER_00 (38:52):
I was reading over this today, and Cole comes up
and he's like, What's wrong?
And I was like, I'm just at theend.
I'm so sad.
I get so connected.
And like I now understand alittle bit more like creators
I've seen kind of cry throughstories.
I'm like, bitch, get over it.
Like it's fine.
But like when you sit with thisfor so long, you feel it and
(39:14):
you're in it.
And I know that like listenersaren't feeling it the way or in
it this way.
You know, you didn't have eightmonths of time with them.
I feel like I know them aspeople.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
Well, I don't, I did not sit with this for eight
months.
This is the first time I'm everhearing about these stories, but
I just really resonate with thebrothers.
They're so sweet.
And yeah, I bet that's why youwanted me to do this because
they were so close and we aretwins.
SPEAKER_00 (39:40):
Yeah, Cole would have made fun of them so hard
and had no because he's an onlychild and he has only child
syndrome like crazy.
So it's true.
He does.
It's so I mean, it is what itis, you know.
Yeah, it's funny.
I'll just call it out wheneverit's happening.
I'm like, you're being an onlychild right now.
He's like, okay, whatever.
But I think this whole time hewould have just been like, Why
(40:02):
are they so obsessed with eachother?
And I'll be like, They're littermates, man.
I don't know.
They're litter mates.
That's the answer.
From the womb to the tomb.
Oh, should I make a shirt withthat?
Yeah.
From the womb to the tomb,that'll be a shirt or a sweater
or something.
Any of the twins or siblings,get it.
Well, twins specifically,because we shared a womb
(40:23):
together.
Yeah.
But I feel like it'd be okay forpeople like things are fine.
Siblings were share, they don'tshare a womb at the same time,
but they did share a womb.
That is true.
It's the same womb.
Yeah, and siblings share rooms alot.
A lot.
So yeah, from the womb to thetomb.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (40:38):
Brothers grim.
unknown (40:40):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (40:41):
All right.
Thank you guys.
All right.
Bye.
Bye.
Hello everyone.
I'm Sarah.
And I'm Sam.
And you're listening to BorrowedBones.
A podcast about fucked up,interesting, and toxic families.
I wish we could harmonize that.
SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
Like you do borrowed bones, and I'll be like,
borrowed bones.
unknown (00:18):
Or something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
I'd have to do some like smelly cat thing though,
like Phoebe, because I'm gettingover a cold, so I feel a little
nasally today.
Borrowed bones.
Borrowed.
I can't do it.
Come on.
Borrowed bone.
I'm flat as hell.
Same, same here.
Okay.
(00:42):
Today, aside from harmonizing,we are in our third and final
part of The Brothers Grimm.
unknown (00:50):
Woo!
SPEAKER_00 (00:50):
Yay! The second one was very history heavy, which I
personally really enjoy.
It was.
It was, I liked it.
It was just a lot ofinformation.
Yeah.
Well, these boys did a lot.
They sure did.
And I've said this a milliontimes, but like eight months of
researching them, and I stillfeel like I can learn more.
But anyway.
(01:11):
I'm gonna do a deep dive afterthis on some more stuff.
Yes.
What's crazy though is it's hardto find a deep dive.
I have books for you if you wantthem.
Books are really where it's at.
I'm not a reader.
I mean, I like to read, butyeah, I really my attention span
is not not reading.
I'll read the same page ahundred times and then I'll give
up and be like, okay, I'm alldone.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was hard.
(01:31):
I gave up a few times.
So there's no documentaries oranything.
I mean, not that I found.
There's a few like in theirlater years as adults.
There's not much about themgrowing up, though.
There's not much about theirfamily, their siblings.
No Lottie.
Yeah.
We love Lottie.
SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
We love Lottie.
SPEAKER_00 (01:51):
In part two, we left off with Wilhelm and Jacob
moving to Berlin to work at theUniversity of Berlin.
Okay.
And this is 1841.
SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
And they're leaving Kassel.
Yep.
Which is where they did most oftheir living and growing up.
It's where most of their familyis.
Their mother and dad are buriedthere.
Um, oh, they're also working onthe German dictionary right now.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
Yeah.
The com the one they werecommissioned to do together.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Yes.
All right.
So now we're in Berlin.
And Jacob is 56 and Wilhelm is55.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
They were able to work on their side projects a
lot more at the University ofBerlin, unlike when they were in
Gottingen, because they had morework to do in at that university
in Gottingen.
They had to be professors andlibrarians.
But at the University of Berlin,they're they have a lot more
freedom.
I think the Gottingen Seven thathappened really polarized the
(02:57):
Grimms and those sevenprofessors, right, throughout
Germany.
And so the people that lovedthem loved them, but then people
hated them because of thepolitical um turmoil?
Not turmoil.
Sure.
Political tenseness.
Yeah.
So the University of Berlin arepeople that really like them.
So they're like, just come here,do whatever you want, guys.
SPEAKER_01 (03:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
It's chill.
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
Yeah.
We're just chilling over here.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
Yeah.
They lectured periodically, kindof whenever they wanted.
Wilhelm was a great lecturer andhe loved it, but Jacob did it
just whenever he, I guess, wasbored or something.
They weren't full-timeprofessors.
They're kind of not inretirement, but they're finally
able to do their hobbies.
Okay.
And they did publish the fifthedition of Children's and
(03:44):
Household Tales.
So they're still doing revisionsand adding.
Yes.
It's crazy.
It never ends.
It just keeps going.
In 1844, Jacob was awarded theSwedish Order of the Polar Star.
Wow.
And this award was created in1748 in Sweden to recognize
(04:09):
personal endeavors for Sweden orfor Swedish interests.
They felt that Jacob's workdoing the fairy tales and
whatnot benefited Sweden as wellas Germany, as well as France.
Because again, he did getstories from there as well.
SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
Sure.
See.
Do you also do you know whichstories specifically maybe came
from Sweden?
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
No, dang.
I didn't look that up.
Man.
Yeah.
Okay.
There's so much else.
I'm just kidding.
You can look it up yourself.
Good.
Anyway, Jacob also received abunch of other awards around
this time, and he was justfinally getting that recognition
that he really deserved.
(04:52):
Like I said, he's always beenwell received in the scholarly
world, but now that he's older,his life's works are starting to
really get recognition.
They're finally being noticed ina bigger way.
Also, what was interesting whenthey were living in Berlin,
Jacob Grimm and Hans ChristianAnderson were kind of friends.
(05:14):
Really?
Yes.
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
We're in 1846 now.
So Hans, if you are familiar,but if those that are listening
are not familiar, Hans ChristianAndersen, he wrote fairy tales
as well.
Not as well.
He wrote fairy tales.
The Grimms did not write fairytales.
Okay.
They didn't.
Let's make that clear.
They did not.
They collected Hans wrote them.
(05:36):
Yes.
The Disney movie Frozen is basedoff of Hans Christian Andersen's
story, The Snow Queen.
And he also wrote other fairytales like The Princess and the
Pea, Thumbelina, and ourmother's favorite, The Little
Mermaid.
I did not know that about her.
SPEAKER_01 (05:54):
Yeah.
How do you know that?
SPEAKER_00 (05:56):
Well, I don't know if it was her personal favorite,
but she said it was her favoritebecause it's the came out the
same year on VHS that we wereborn.
SPEAKER_01 (06:04):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (06:04):
Yeah.
So I don't know if that turnedinto her favorite because of us,
but she always said that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:11):
That's so nice.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
Hans introduced himself first to Jacob Grimm.
Kind of.
Okay.
He he lives in Copenhagen.
That's where he's from.
And he visited Germany, Berlin,just because he was there.
He did not let Jacob know he wascoming.
Hans had heard of Jacob beforeJacob heard of him.
So he goes to Jacob's house andis like, hey, I'm here.
(06:34):
But Jacob wasn't available atthe time.
He wasn't there.
So they never saw each other.
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
Huh.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
Jacob was told that Hans Christian Andersen came and
visited, and Jacob didn't knowwho he was.
And then he figured it out.
He did some research becausehe's Jacob.
Yep.
And he was like, all right, Iknow who he is now.
Okay.
Once Jacob figured out who HansChristian Anderson was, it's
been a few weeks since Hanstried to visit him.
(07:00):
So a few weeks later, Jacob goesto Copenhagen.
I'm having a hard time sayingthat because my nose and my
nasaliness.
Copenhagen.
Copenhagen.
Copenhagen.
Jacob goes to Copenhagen tovisit Hans, and they did meet.
And Jacob assured Hans that,yes, I do know who you are.
(07:21):
And I am aware of some of yourworks.
Yes.
Got you.
Perfect.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Does he become like a thropple with the brothers?
SPEAKER_00 (07:29):
No, but I think they have a few visits here and there
because then in the winter of1846, Hans visits both brothers
in Berlin.
And Wilhelm was really excitedabout this because he finally
gets to meet him.
And Hans Christian Andersen readaloud his stories to Wilhelm and
Jacob.
Oh my God.
Yes.
That's amazing.
(07:49):
They got to be told stories fromHans's mouth.
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
Those boys.
I know.
Man.
I know.
Writing Sir Walter Scott inScotland for fairy tales and
then just hanging out with HansChristian Anderson.
What a time to be alive.
Napoleon's just an annoyance.
Well, Napoleon actually carvedpretty much who they are as
people.
Yeah.
But damn, they lived in quite atime.
(08:15):
It's crazy.
But then a couple years later,in 1848, another revolution in
Paris.
Awesome.
France needs to just calm down.
They need to relax.
All the history of France.
Relax.
So of course the German kingdomsgot worried again, and the king
(08:40):
fortified Berlin.
And Wilhelm and Jacob werecaught right in the middle of it
all, yet again.
They had to barricade themselvesinside their apartment until the
fighting stopped.
The Grims also would give liketheir soldiers on their side
food, water, whatever they couldto help.
They're just in it all the way,all the time.
(09:02):
In the aftermath of therevolution, Jacob was called to
represent a voting district inWestern Germany at the Frankfurt
National Assembly.
Yeah.
So this is the first freelyelected parliament for the
German-speaking lands.
So they were trying to make aunified Germany at this time.
(09:25):
And they're like, okay, this isour chance to get together.
It didn't work.
They're not unified yet, butthey're trying.
And Jacob is there.
Jacob's there for it.
He was 63 at this time.
Okay.
And in some of his own writing,he's like, I'm only here as an
old fart.
It's just symbolic.
Like he didn't really doanything, but a lot of um, there
(09:46):
were a few other professors fromthe Gottingen 7 as well.
So it was more of arepresentation.
Sure.
Which is still important.
Yeah.
Jacob also completed histwo-volume history of the German
language in this year of 1848.
It was a big year.
The Paris, another revolution,trying to unify Germany.
(10:09):
And then he's like, I got thisbig old history of the German
language ready to go.
And he said that that was hisgreatest work.
unknown (10:16):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (10:17):
History of the German language.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
Mm-hmm.
And they're still working onthat German dictionary, too.
Still happening.
SPEAKER_01 (10:24):
Still in the background.
It's still happening.
SPEAKER_00 (10:25):
All the time.
Mm-hmm.
On Jacob's 67th birthday inJanuary of 1852, the brothers
finally received the firstproofs of the dictionary.
And they would work on thisdictionary for 12 hours a day,
they said.
But the dictionary would only bereleased in installments because
(10:46):
they would get like a fewletters done, and then that
would be released.
So the first installment waspublished in 1852.
And that was 14 years after theannouncement of it.
So it's already been 14 years.
So there was no other Germandictionary before this?
SPEAKER_01 (11:05):
Or did they just like here?
You guys are good at writingthings and storytelling and you
know language in general.
SPEAKER_00 (11:13):
So here you go.
I never looked into that part.
We need to look it up nowbecause I can't move on without
knowing.
Get your phone out.
Okay, look it up.
When was the first Germandictionary published?
You got it?
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
I got it.
So it says the first true Germandictionary was published in
1561.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
So well, they're doing something with this German
dictionary.
SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
They did something with the dictionary.
SPEAKER_00 (11:38):
Yep.
Like I said, I could not getdeep into all of their projects,
and this is a long one.
So I'm assuming it's just morecomprehensive, has more details
to it, has more notes to it, hasmore definitions to it.
I'm guessing it's just a veryin-depth dictionary.
That's what I gathered from itanyway, that it is like a big
old dictionary.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
Yeah.
That's what we're gonna call it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
It's a big old German dictionary.
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
That's right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
All right.
Two years later, in 1854,finally the complete first
volume of the dictionary waspublished, and it contained
letter A and part of letter B.
And the first volume was over1,800 pages.
What?
Yes.
So they have like notes and theyhave more than definitions.
(12:32):
Yeah.
Way more than that going on.
History of the language, andsure.
It's a lot that they've got inthat.
unknown (12:39):
Man.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (12:41):
And by this time now, like I said, the brothers
are getting older, Jacob's 67,Wilhelm 66.
They fell into a nice routine inBerlin.
They would work in theirstudies, they each had their own
study, and they were often goingin and out of each other's
offices to get books from oneanother.
They always had books scatteredabout.
(13:02):
They would spend all day workingon this dictionary.
And as they were still gettingolder, they stopped lecturing
students and they slowly slippedaway from going to social
gatherings and they just focusedon their small group of friends
and family.
Oh, isn't that cute?
Yeah, that's cute.
SPEAKER_01 (13:21):
Do they live together?
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
Yeah, they still live together.
So they live together.
With Dorthin and like Dortchin.
Yeah, Herman and Rudolph andAugusta.
Yeah, they're all there.
They're all there.
Okay.
Uncle Jacob, Papa Jacob.
Papa Jacob.
Yeah.
Their younger brother, Carl,passed away while living in
Castle in 1852.
(13:43):
Wilhelm's son, Herman, hestopped studying law and he
began writing novellas anddramas.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
Herman also studied art history and he would go on
to become an art historian and aprofessor at the University of
Berlin.
Yay, Herman.
Just yeah.
I like to know where people endup.
Yeah.
Herman's younger brother,Rudolph, he went for a military
career, and the youngestdaughter, Augusta, she stayed
(14:13):
home and she would help Dortchenwith the household.
Okay.
So the boys went off, and thennow as adults, we have Wilhelm,
Jacob, Dortchen, and Augusta inthe same home.
Okay.
Scholars and dignitaries wouldvisit the Grimms regularly as
they got older.
And these visitors would oftensay that Dorton was very loving.
Wilhelm was warm-hearted, andthat Jacob could be
(14:36):
intimidating, but he wasquick-witted with a hearty
laugh.
That sounds like Jacob.
Yep.
That's him all right.
Like one of those like teddybears under the hard exterior,
you know?
Right.
Their fairy tales, thechildren's and household tales,
would go on to have seven totaleditions that the Grimms would
publish.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (14:56):
The seventh and final one being published in
1857.
I say final lightly though,because more editions were
published like post their death,but they published seven.
SPEAKER_01 (15:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
I gotta get myself this book.
I know.
I gotta find it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:12):
They never saw true glory or fame while they were
alive.
Like I said, they were respectedin their circles.
Academics and scholars knew whothey were, but they weren't like
just off the streets, peoplelike, hey Jacob, hey Wilhelm,
thanks for the stories.
Yeah, like it just didn't happenthat way.
Yeah.
They never made much money offof their works while they were
alive, and they spent most oftheir lives struggling to
(15:35):
provide a comfortable life fortheir family.
Like kind of reminds me of likeEdgar Allan Poe and like the
classical musicians and theartists that just they suffer
through life.
And they don't see the benefitsor they don't reap the rewards.
Nope.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Not at all.
SPEAKER_00 (15:52):
In 1858, there was this man that marketed a book of
fairy tales for himself, but itwas plagiarized from the Grimms.
And the Grimms did take legalaction.
But by the time this man wasforced to pay them anything,
both Wilhelm and Jacob werepassed away.
SPEAKER_01 (16:11):
Aww.
SPEAKER_00 (16:12):
They never even got that.
When they finally startedfighting for their rights.
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:16):
That's sad.
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
December 16th, 1859, Wilhelm passes away at the age
of 73.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
Oh, Wilhelm went first.
Oh he's a sickly guy.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
That's true.
A few days before his death,there was a cluster of boils
that developed on his back thatrequired surgery.
Oh.
It was called somethingspecific, and I don't know how
to say it, but it said that itstarted from like bacteria and
that created the boils.
Okay.
Was that like MRSA?
No, it was like with a C.
Uctus.
(16:49):
That's not it, but it was likesomething c yeah.
Okay.
But it said boils and bacteria.
Okay.
And then when he grew feverishafter the surgery, Jacob got
worried and he sat near him, andJacob counted Wilhelm's breaths
as he had done so many timesthroughout Wilhelm's life.
(17:10):
Jacob would always sit by himwhen he got sick and like, Oh,
that makes me so many.
SPEAKER_01 (17:15):
Don't cry because I'm making me sick.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
I'm gonna cry.
Don't, don't.
SPEAKER_02 (17:21):
I'm gonna cry.
SPEAKER_00 (17:22):
There's more.
SPEAKER_02 (17:23):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
Wilhelm became delirious and he thought that
Jacob was a picture and notactually present.
Oh.
Yeah.
Wilhelm's funeral was themorning of December 20th.
And when his coffin was setdown, Jacob threw a handful of
earth on him.
Yeah.
Jacob said that he felt half ofhim was gone.
(17:46):
Oh no.
I know.
I know.
There's more.
Oh no.
In July of 1860, seven monthsafter Wilhelm's death, Jacob was
saying a memorial speech at theAcademy of Sciences in Berlin.
And he was speaking aboutWilhelm.
Jacob said how he and Wilhelmshared a bed when they were
(18:08):
schoolboys, and then they hadtwo beds in the same room with
desks while they were at auniversity.
And then later in life, they hadtwo desks in the same study, and
then they had two studies underthe same roof.
Aw.
Yeah, he's just reflecting ontheir life too.
Yeah.
And now at this point, wheneverJacob would hold children's and
(18:31):
household tales, he said he feltas if he could see Wilhelm on
every page.
Okay, that's great.
And he acknowledged that Wilhelmwas the driving force behind the
fairy tales for quite a fewdecades.
He was like, I lost it, andWilhelm kept kept it.
Wilhelm did great.
Yeah.
After Wilhelm's death, Jacob andhis nephew Herman registered to
(18:54):
copyright the children'shousehold tales so that no one
else could steal it again.
I don't know this to be a fact,but I believe it to be true.
I think Jacob did this becausehe doesn't want Wilhelm's work
being stolen.
Yeah.
I think he's protecting hisbrother.
I think so too.
I don't think he cares abouthimself that much.
SPEAKER_01 (19:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
Jacob left the door to Wilhelm's study open and his
papers and books untouched.
He did eventually move hislibrary into Wilhelm's study,
but he never touched Wilhelm'sdesk.
He left it right where it was.
But that German dictionary stillneeds to be worked on.
And then the damn dictionary.
(19:36):
It's still there.
It's still there.
Oh yeah.
This fucking dictionary.
They hated it.
They ended up hating this thing.
They hated it.
Uh Jacob is now working onletters E and F.
Oh my god, they're only at E andF.
Wilhelm completed all of letterD before he died.
Oh, good.
So he did that.
(19:57):
Okay.
And in the preface of the secondvolume of the dictionary that
was published in 1860, Jacobkind of apologizes to the
readers.
He says in this preface, hesays, Wilhelm did most of the
writing with the first volume.
And I hope that the reader stillis okay with my style.
(20:22):
Wilhelm was more visual anddescriptive than Jacob was, and
Jacob knew that.
And Jacob in his preface said,you know, you could really see
what Wilhelm meant.
He would show you through hiswords.
And Jacob was just more academicand uniform in his writing.
And as I've mentioned in theprevious uh episodes, Jacob
(20:43):
always got onto Wilhelm for notbeing academic enough in his
writing.
He was like, you gotta be morehistorical.
We're trying to preserve, we'renot creating, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:52):
But now Jacob says he's happy to see his brother's
voice jump off the page.
Yeah.
unknown (20:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
Jacob.
I know.
He's really deep soul.
He is a deep soul.
I think that's why he has aharsh exterior.
Because once you crack it, it'slike you're all in.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Their younger brother Ludwigwould pass away in 1863.
He's the artist.
Okay.
I don't know how all of thebrothers and sisters died, but
I'd just like to note that theypassed away as well.
(21:22):
Now Jacob is the oldest Grimm,as he always has been, and he's
the last Grimm remaining.
Because their brother Ferdinandpassed away in 1848.
Yeah.
Man.
Yeah.
Aside from his like niece andnephews, and Dortchen's still
alive, but he's the last one ofhis family.
Right.
Yeah.
In the late summer of 1863,Jacob took a break from his work
(21:47):
and he traveled with Dortchenand Augusta to the mountains of
northern Germany.
Took a little break.
Good.
Upon his return, he got a cold.
And that cold turned into aninflamed liver.
Okay.
That's what it was described as.
So I'm not sure what that means.
Alright.
Yep.
(22:07):
I don't know.
And he was treated with leechesand calomel.
It was a mercury chloridemineral, like white powder
thing.
Mercury.
SPEAKER_01 (22:19):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:20):
Yeah.
That's probably why I don't knowwhat it is.
Yeah, it's not used anymore, Idon't think.
Yeah.
Yeah, I looked at I was like,what the fuck?
Mercury is not common.
No.
No.
Jacob would get better duringthe day, but he would break out
into fevers at night.
And the day sorry.
The day before he passed away,he got out of bed, he leaned
(22:41):
against a wicker chair, and madehis way to the window.
Augusta tried to talk to him,but he did not respond, and
instead he fell against her.
He was having a stroke.
He grew feverish and slept intothe next day, and upon
awakening, his right side wasparalyzed along with his left
hand.
(23:01):
As he lay dying, he wasconscious, and he seemed to
understand what was being saidto him, but he could not talk.
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
He pointed to a picture of Wilhelm.
And when they gave it to him, hebrought it close to his eyes and
he set it down on the bed.
I know.
Oh no.
I've been with them for so long.
Now they're dead.
The fuck?
Defer.
So Jacob died on Sunday,September 20th, 1863, at the age
(23:31):
of 78, about four years afterWilhelm.
Jacob was surrounded by hisbooks that he and Wilhelm
amassed over their lifetime.
Okay.
And Jacob was always concernedabout what would happen to their
collection once they passed.
I mean, that takes a long time.
Right.
So nephew Herman, he kept a fewhundred books.
(23:53):
About a thousand books were soldoff.
Wow.
And the rest were kept allintact and given to the library
at the University of Berlin.
And I looked quickly and I'mpretty sure you can still see
these books.
I mean, they're still there.
I don't know if you can touchthem or see them, but they're
still at the university.
And I guess they have likehandwritten notes in them from
(24:14):
the brothers.
Yeah.
Probably a lot from Jacob, I'mguessing.
SPEAKER_02 (24:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:18):
But I think that's cool.
I would like to see that.
Yeah, that is really cool.
I think that's that's reallycool.
Yeah.
Should totally go there.
Oh, we have so much.
Um I'm gonna tell you what we'regonna do.
Okay, great.
You just wait, can't wait.
Jacob was buried next to hisbrother in Berlin.
And Jacob's grave was adornedwith flowers, and there was a
wreath with white roses andribbons that said to the friend
(24:41):
of the youth from thankfulchildren.
Oh I know.
I think by this point he's oldenough.
He's 78, right?
SPEAKER_02 (24:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
And I think that these kids now are old enough to
have grown up with the Grimfairy tales.
SPEAKER_01 (24:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Because he started in the 30s when he was in his
30s, and then these kids wereyounger, and now they're
probably adult children, andthey're like, I remember the
Grimm.
So that's at the end of theirlife is when they're getting
this notoriety.
But that's how it works.
It takes a while.
It does.
After Jacob's death, Dortchenand Augusta moved into another
(25:18):
apartment in Berlin, andDortchen will pass away from a
respiratory illness in 1867.
SPEAKER_01 (25:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (25:25):
And neither Rudolph nor Augusta married.
Only Herman married, and he andhis wife never had children.
Huh.
None of Wilhelm's kids had kids.
None of them.
Jacob didn't have kids.
Wilhelm's kids didn't have kids.
So there's no direct line.
That's crazy.
Lottie had kids, so they'restill Grimms, but there's no
(25:48):
direct descendants.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
That's sad.
Isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (25:52):
Man.
I mean, I'm not I mean, I getit.
Yeah, like I'm not aboutbreeding just to breed, like
think about it, but also likedamn.
Yeah.
Damn.
Rudolph passed away in 1889, andHerman died in 1901, and Augusta
died in 1919.
Okay.
So that is their lives.
(26:14):
Wow.
Yes.
And there's a lot that happenedafter them.
Not a whole lot, not too crazy.
Okay.
But after they died, theirimpact definitely lasted.
Their work became even more wellknown as a beacon for Germans to
turn toward whenever their wayof life was at risk.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
In the late 1800s and the early 1900s, the Grimms
became more publicly well known.
Like, for example, there's apark in Berlin where a fountain
with sculptures of the Grimmsfairy tale creat creatures.
SPEAKER_02 (26:48):
Creatures.
SPEAKER_00 (26:49):
Fairy tale creatures.
Um sculptures of the Grimmsfairy tale characters were
started in this park being builtin the 1890s, and it was
completed in 1913.
Now we're stepping further intothe 20th century around World
War II time.
There's no more kingdoms,Prussia's gone.
We have Germany now.
Okay.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (27:10):
But the boys weren't a part of that, so that's why
we're not talking about it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
Yeah, no.
Yeah.
I honestly looked up real quickand I was like, I don't want to
get into this.
I feel so bad for the people ofGermany that have to learn
German history.
It is a lot.
Yeah.
Oh, at least America's young.
Like we don't have that muchhistory to go through.
Yeah.
Man.
So during World War II time,their children's and household
(27:37):
tales was marketed broadly inGermany.
And there were select grim talesthat began to appear in school
bird school books.
Okay.
It's hard for me to talk becauseI can't breathe through my
notes.
So their story started to getinto the schoolwork of European
nations and also North America.
(27:57):
European nations.
I want to say Europe and NorthAmerica.
European.
European.
So again, Germany's reallystarting to take in the
brothers' grimm.
Unfortunately, Germany went alittle too wild with it, and
(28:18):
they created this nationalismand xenophobia kind of.
Uh-oh.
Yeah.
Ratro.
Yeah, they went a little toonationalistic with it.
Um, we all know what's happeningin Germany in World War II time
frame.
The the powers at bee duringthat time, the Nazi Party, um,
(28:38):
the SS, if you will, they reallytook the Grims and they were
like, this is Germannationalism, this is our
culture, these are our people,and these Grims know what's up.
So the Grims can sometimes havea negative reputation to some
people who don't know enoughabout them.
Yeah.
The Grims themselves did not dothat.
Yeah.
They were trying to preserve theGermany that they were watching
(29:00):
get wiped away.
SPEAKER_01 (29:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:02):
This was not the case.
By the French.
Yes, by the French.
By the French.
Not the Jewish people.
Not the Jewish.
No.
So the popularity of the Grimmsfairy tales got really big
during World War II.
And after the war, many Germanswere trying to bring the name of
the Grims back to their rightfulreputation.
(29:23):
They were like, that was a lot.
Stop.
Don't do that.
And they made it known that theGrims collected stories as a way
to preserve their cultureinstead of trying to be like,
we're better than you.
We're this nationalistic group.
We're they're not better.
They're just, we exist.
Yeah.
That's it.
Okay.
But yeah, some people will tellyou that the Grims are
(29:43):
anti-Semitic.
I mean, they're honestly alittle, you know, chauvinistic,
womanizers, a little racist,probably.
I mean, all the things that youwere back then, but nothing more
than the norm.
SPEAKER_01 (29:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Okay.
Yeah.
The German dictionary.
unknown (29:59):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
We're not done.
We're back at it.
It was finally finished in 1961.
Wow.
Yes.
And I didn't want to go downthat rabbit hole of all of what
it was and why it took thatlong.
And I don't care.
Okay.
I don't.
Yep.
All right.
That's something for you toexplore on your own.
Sure.
And that is pretty much it forthe Grimms.
(30:25):
It tracks, I think, that theboys would die with work still
left to be done.
That that German dictionary wasa hefty load for them to take on
late in life.
Yeah.
I don't think they would haveever died with completed works
all around.
They would have been working, Ithink, until they died.
Yeah.
I wanted to touch on one thing.
There's a theory.
(30:46):
Okay.
That Jacob Grimm is gay.
Okay.
Touch on this because a lot ofpeople ask about it.
It's not, it doesn't matter.
But people always ask.
And it's always brought up.
I saw it a lot in my research.
Okay.
There's no evidence.
There's nothing to say he was orwasn't.
He didn't have romanticrelationships.
He was a scholar, an academic.
(31:07):
He did his work and he was justa man who lived with his family.
That's it.
There's no more craziness to it.
There's no secret life.
There's no like he didn't hide,there's nothing.
SPEAKER_01 (31:17):
I wonder why that's even like a popular question.
SPEAKER_00 (31:20):
Because he never because he didn't have a
romantic life.
Oh.
So people are just assumingthat's weird.
Yeah.
That's it.
He's different.
Must be gay.
Like, okay.
That's it.
Yeah.
Got it.
I personally think that Jacob isjust a very deep soul and feels
very deeply.
And he's the oldest of hisfamily, of the child of the
(31:41):
children.
He saw his dad die.
He, we know, was close with hisgrandfather.
He was close with his mom.
He was the one who had to puteverything on his shoulders.
He would constantly think thatWilhelm was dying every time he
got sick.
Like he counted his breaths alot.
I don't think Jacob had it roomfor someone else.
That's true.
(32:02):
Because you got a lot.
You lose people.
Like I don't want every time Ilose someone to death, I don't
want to just replace them andadd another.
I don't want to lose any morepeople.
Aw.
So I feel you, Jacob.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I think.
We do.
We understand Jacob.
We get it.
And then finally, my last thingI want to talk about.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:22):
There is the German fairy tale route.
What?
That we should go on.
Ooh.
You can follow in the footstepsof the brothers Grimm.
Oh my God.
From Hanau to Bremen.
Really?
It's 600 kilometers, so about373 miles.
Okay.
And it hits 70 locations, andthey're all connected to the
(32:43):
Grimms or their fairy tales.
Like you can see the castlewhere Sleeping Beauty slept, or
Punzel's Tower.
You can see where the Grimmsgrew up and lived, all of it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
Oh my God, that sounds like the best time.
I want to go.
How long would that take?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
I have no idea.
I have the website, though I'lllink it in the show notes.
Cool.
I point down as if I'm like onit.
We're gonna link it right here.
And there's not even a camera onit.
It's just me recording.
That sounds amazing, though.
Yeah, we should do that.
That would be really cool.
I want to do that.
Yeah, there's a lot about thebrothers Grimm in Germany, just
(33:23):
anywhere you go.
I I bet.
I believe it.
Because they were a part ofeverything.
Yeah.
I did everything.
I think more.
If any founding father are.
I I don't know if any Germanswould agree.
I think that.
I think that.
Yeah.
That's what I would feel.
SPEAKER_01 (33:40):
Also, I don't know a lot about German history before
that time.
So no.
SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
There's a lot of Holy Roman Empire history there.
I'm all set.
I don't want to get into that.
I don't want to know.
I want to learn more about fairytales.
Yes, let's focus on that.
Because the Grims did enough.
Yeah.
But yeah, that's that's it.
This is a shorter of the threeparts.
I didn't want to shove all thisin because there's again a lot
(34:07):
of information.
So I just wanted this one to bea little bit shorter.
Just a quick soup.
I don't know what do that again.
unknown (34:14):
Soup.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
That sounds fun.
I like it.
Soup.
Okay, I'm done.
I can't do it.
Well, I have a little gap in myteeth still.
SPEAKER_01 (34:25):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (34:25):
It's still there.
The tiniest little gap.
That's right.
When I had my Invisalign done, Itold the doctor not to shut it
all the way.
He had it closed up all the way,and I said, uh-uh.
Uh-uh.
That's a piece of Sarah.
That's that you closing up.
Uh-uh.
Don't you do it.
Just close it a little to makeit cute.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Keep your spaces.
(34:46):
Keep your gaps.
That's right.
Yeah, but that's it.
That's it.
Let's go on the fairy tale tour.
Um, you said you want to takeour nephew when he graduates
high school to Europe.
Well, let's go to Germany.
Okay.
Did you say Europe in general ordid you have an idea?
I said ink like London.
Oh, you specifically want to goto London.
Can we go to Germany?
Yeah.
(35:06):
And can I I'm adding myself tothis show.
Sure.
I wanted to go to Londonspecifically because I want to
go on the Jack the Ripper tour.
We could probably do both.
We don't realize how smallEurope is in ja as a continent.
I mean, it's not small, likeit's a big continent, but like
the countries are closer than werealize because we're Americans
and everything's big as fuckhere.
(35:27):
Like I think we could do it.
We could do it.
Just go for like two or threeweeks and just travel Europe.
Interesting.
That would be fun.
SPEAKER_01 (35:36):
I'd have to save up a lot of PTO time for my job.
SPEAKER_00 (35:40):
Yes.
Well, good thing our nephew isin middle school.
Great.
We have time.
Perfect.
However, I think it's like asome type of anniversary or
something this year that we justmissed for the fairy tale.
I saw it on one of theirwebsites and I just went, nope,
disassociate.
I couldn't go anyway.
Can't afford that right now.
Yeah, yeah.
In this economy.
(36:04):
All right, but that's it for thebrothers Grimm.
And I do feel like agrimarologist.
I'm gonna make that a thing.
If it's not, I'm one.
You're a riperologist, I'm agrimerologist.
All right.
And we will go to London andGermany.
London specifically.
Okay.
I know that's not a country.
I know I said it like it was.
It's not.
Stupid Americans.
(36:24):
Stupid.
Oh, also, I am still working onmy merch.
It's gonna be out pretty soon.
I've ordered some products formyself to make sure that they're
good quality and everything.
So once I do a quality check, Iwill present everything to the
public.
And I hope you guys like itbecause I do.
So yeah.
Be on the lookout for that.
If you want the latest updatesabout it, you can follow me on
(36:47):
Instagram at borrowed bonespodcast.
And I'm guessing, Sam, for thethird time, no Instagram
followers.
You don't want to care.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
I mean, you can find me if you I mean, if you want,
you can find me.
SPEAKER_00 (36:58):
But I've tagged her a few times and things, but you
have to you have to work at itto be her friend.
You have to work really hard.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
Yes.
I only talk to my sisters.
Yeah.
When we write letters to eachother.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
We should start.
That would be fun.
I would want to get like a inkthough, like old school desk.
Um, the desk I have from grandmaactually is old school, and I do
have a little inkwell in it.
Interesting.
So I can put like ink and likepens and do like a quill.
I want to get my own like stampfor the seal.
SPEAKER_01 (37:32):
You know what?
I I'm obsessed with stampvideos.
Oh god.
I love them so much.
SPEAKER_00 (37:37):
Like the wax stamps?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (37:39):
I love them.
I want to stamp just to do that.
Maybe I should make that formercy.
I don't know, man.
I got nothing to stamp.
I'm not sending letters thesedays.
SPEAKER_00 (37:51):
Me either.
SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
But it looks really fun, and I love watching the
videos.
So keep it up, whoever you are.
SPEAKER_00 (37:56):
Yeah, whoever's making those stamps, keep it up.
We love him.
I haven't watched them, but Iwill know.
I love the stamps.
I've been into YouTube a lot.
I've been watching Kevin Lang.
He's really funny, him and hispeople.
I don't know who that is.
It's so funny.
Kevin Lang, and then there'sDenny, and then there's Herm.
He's my fave.
And then I don't know if anyoneelse watches this at all, but I
(38:19):
love them.
And they have like millions offollowers.
Like it's wild how big theinternet is and how big this
world is because you havemillions of followers, and no
one I know, though, knows whothey are.
I'm like the only person in myworld that follows them.
Yeah.
Anyway, any listeners out there,if you also watch Kevin Lang, uh
let me know.
(38:39):
I don't want to be alone inthis.
But that's it.
A nice short one this week.
It was sad.
I know.
We both cried.
I didn't know if you were gonnacry or not.
And I was like, God damn it,Sam, don't cry.
SPEAKER_01 (38:50):
Don't start with me.
SPEAKER_00 (38:52):
I was reading over this today, and Cole comes up
and he's like, What's wrong?
And I was like, I'm just at theend.
I'm so sad.
I get so connected.
And like I now understand alittle bit more like creators
I've seen kind of cry throughstories.
I'm like, bitch, get over it.
Like it's fine.
But like when you sit with thisfor so long, you feel it and
(39:14):
you're in it.
And I know that like listenersaren't feeling it the way or in
it this way.
You know, you didn't have eightmonths of time with them.
I feel like I know them aspeople.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
Well, I don't, I did not sit with this for eight
months.
This is the first time I'm everhearing about these stories, but
I just really resonate with thebrothers.
They're so sweet.
And yeah, I bet that's why youwanted me to do this because
they were so close and we aretwins.
SPEAKER_00 (39:40):
Yeah, Cole would have made fun of them so hard
and had no because he's an onlychild and he has only child
syndrome like crazy.
So it's true.
He does.
It's so I mean, it is what itis, you know.
Yeah, it's funny.
I'll just call it out wheneverit's happening.
I'm like, you're being an onlychild right now.
He's like, okay, whatever.
But I think this whole time hewould have just been like, Why
(40:02):
are they so obsessed with eachother?
And I'll be like, They're littermates, man.
I don't know.
They're litter mates.
That's the answer.
From the womb to the tomb.
Oh, should I make a shirt withthat?
Yeah.
From the womb to the tomb,that'll be a shirt or a sweater
or something.
Any of the twins or siblings,get it.
Well, twins specifically,because we shared a womb
(40:23):
together.
Yeah.
But I feel like it'd be okay forpeople like things are fine.
Siblings were share, they don'tshare a womb at the same time,
but they did share a womb.
That is true.
It's the same womb.
Yeah, and siblings share rooms alot.
A lot.
So yeah, from the womb to thetomb.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (40:38):
Brothers grim.
unknown (40:40):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (40:41):
All right.
Thank you guys.
All right.
Bye.
Bye.
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