The Most Dysfunctional Family in America: Part 2

The Sexton family saga continues as Eddie Lee and May are on the run from officials, clinging to their children and claims of innocence. Evidence amasses against them at home as the children who refused to run away, tell their stories. 

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Episode Transcript

Sarah (00:00):
Hello everyone.

Cole (00:01):
Hey guys.

Sarah (00:02):
I'm Sarah.

Cole (00:04):
And I'm Cole.

Sarah (00:05):
You are listening to Borrowed Bones, a podcast about
fucked up, interesting, andtoxic families.
Today we are in part two of theSexton family.

Cole (00:17):
Yes.
Episode 10 overall.

Sarah (00:19):
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is episode 10.
We're in the

Cole (00:22):
double digits.

Sarah (00:23):
Yep.
Finally in the double digits.
I got a little alert from mywebsite that I use to track all
of this, and they said that only1% of podcasts make it to 10
episodes.
Really?
Yeah.
I guess a lot of them try andthen they just, yeah.
Crash.
I mean,

Cole (00:40):
everyone's got a podcast today.

Sarah (00:42):
Yeah.
But not one that they postedlast week.
Yeah,

Cole (00:45):
true.
Yeah.
Everyone's dabbles, I guess.
Yes.
Yeah.

Sarah (00:48):
We are in the 1%.

Cole (00:50):
Yeah.
One percenters feels weird

Sarah (00:53):
to say

Cole (00:53):
outlaw bikers and rich people.
Yeah.
One, neither those, that's agreat combo of those.

Sarah (00:58):
Mm-hmm.
This will be a three parter I'vediscovered.
There's just too much to keeptrack of.
I do want to give the kids thatdid speak out, a chance for
their story to be heard.
Yeah.
Because it's mostly about theparents, which of course they're
the ones that did all this.
Definitely perpetrators, so,yeah.
Yeah.
But I think kids often get lostin all of this.

(01:19):
We focus on what happened tothem, but not really how they
handled it.
Yeah.
What, what they went through.
They processed it as individuals

Cole (01:27):
and Yeah.

Sarah (01:28):
Also before we start, a few quick reminders.
We shameless

Cole (01:32):
plugs.

Sarah (01:33):
Do have an Instagram now.
Yay.
You guys can thank Cole forthat.
He pushed pretty hard along withsome other close friends, you
can thank all of them.
Our Instagram is Borrowed Bonespodcast, straightforward,
simple, no numbers or anythingweird.
So go ahead and give us afollow.
Yeah.
Prove me wrong.

(01:53):
I wanna know that I did needthis.
We'll

Cole (01:55):
post some, uh, thirst traps in the future for us.

Sarah (01:59):
Thirst traps.

Cole (02:00):
You ever heard that phrase?

Sarah (02:00):
Yeah, but like, why would we post one?

Cole (02:03):
I dunno, of a skeleton or something.
I don't know.
There's traps for necrophiles.

Sarah (02:07):
See, now you're giving me projects to do.
You don't run the social media.
I do.
I'm not doing that.

Cole (02:12):
Yeah,

Sarah (02:13):
maybe I will.
Who knows?
We'll see.

Cole (02:15):
I feel like that's an album title.
There's traps for Necrophiles.

Sarah (02:18):
Ew,

Cole (02:19):
cannibal Corps new album.

Sarah (02:20):
Stop.
That's not what our podcast is.
if you don't want to follow uson Instagram, you can please
rate and review us on ApplePodcasts, Spotify, wherever you
listen.
It helps us quite a bit.
You got five

Cole (02:34):
minutes to kill.
Write a few words about us.

Sarah (02:36):
I do want to shout out to our first two reviews that we
got Oh.
The first one we received theusername is Teal Paradise and
they had a long one, so Isnipped it down a little bit to
get the gist of it.
Yeah,

Cole (02:51):
give us the bullet points.

Sarah (02:52):
Yeah, they said borrowed bones is an absolute gem for
true crime and historyEnthusiast.
The storytelling is captivating,well researched and delivered in
a way that keeps you engagedfrom start to finish.
Sarah, oh, does an incrediblejob of bringing lesser known
stories to light, making eachepisode feel personal yet

(03:13):
informative.

Cole (03:14):
That's very kind.

Sarah (03:15):
Yeah.
And then he signs off, or they,I'm not sure, they sign off
with, if you love a mix of truecrime history and thought
provoking narratives, thispodcast is a must listen.

Cole (03:25):
It's very nice.
Have one of your sisters towrite that.
It wasn't,

Sarah (03:28):
I you, it's not.

Cole (03:30):
I have no, you would.
Yeah.
I'm just with

Sarah (03:31):
They don't, don't speak that way.
I tried figuring out whose wordsthat, like, whose voice that
was.
Yeah.
It doesn't sound like

Cole (03:36):
anyone I know in person.

Sarah (03:38):
No.
If they did, they used AI orsomething to mask it, so thanks.
Yeah.
Teal Paradise, whoever you are.
There was another review fromAlex J and he said, this podcast
is very well produced and easyto listen to.
A plus, keep it up.

Cole (03:53):
Cool.

Sarah (03:54):
Yeah.

Cole (03:54):
Short and sweet.
Yep.
Succinct.

Sarah (03:55):
We like Alex.
Yeah.
We like Teal Paradise too.
We like anyone who reviews.
Yeah.
You, you can say we suck.
I don't care.
Well, I might, might care alittle.
Yeah, but not that much.

Cole (04:04):
I'm used to people on the internet telling me I suck.

Sarah (04:07):
I

Cole (04:07):
used to have a hashtag that trended row Wild hashtag
Cole Waterman Sucks was a thing.

Sarah (04:11):
Oh

Cole (04:12):
yeah.
One of the criminal defendants Iwrote about started that.

Sarah (04:15):
I like that.
Yeah.
Alright, cool.
Well we've avoided it longenough.
I said everything I needed tosay.
Did all the plugs

Cole (04:23):
done with the preamble?
Mm-hmm.
Let's get to the meat.

Sarah (04:26):
Yep.
We should get back into thisfamily and,

Cole (04:30):
all right.
Where did we leave off?

Sarah (04:31):
Well, I just wanted to remind everyone that I'm not
related to them.

Cole (04:35):
Oh yeah.
That you know of.

Sarah (04:38):
I, I do know for a fact.
Okay.
Because I have DNA testing,which I didn't compare to theirs
but I have the 23 and me and Ihave ancestry.com and I looked
and my family wasn't where theirfamily was.

Cole (04:49):
We're all related in the big human family.

Sarah (04:52):
We all just borrow bones from each other, you might say.
Yeah.

Cole (04:55):
We got a title.

Sarah (04:57):
Alright.
Enough screwing around.
Let's get into it.

Cole (05:00):
Yeah.

Sarah (05:02):
We left off part one having gone through more of
Michelle's storyline.
She was the one to crack it allopen.
If you remember.
She's daughter.
Remember the daughter?
Yes.
Okay.
Yep.
The one that was the first oneto speak out and she spoke about
how.
Everything that's going on.
And now she's living with herUncle Otis.
Okay.
In and out of different homes.
Right.
And then we ended with a littletease into Pixie storyline.

(05:26):
Oh yeah.

Cole (05:26):
Pixie is the oldest, the oldest daughter of the Sexton
daughters, and the oldest who'sstill living

Sarah (05:32):
in their house.
In the house, yep.
Mm-hmm.
she's the favorite.
She's daddy's girl So we aregonna start following Pixie
storyline.
Okay.
Pixie had a friend in highschool.
Not much of a friend, more of aclassmate because they weren't
allowed to hang out outside ofschool, but yeah.
But they

Cole (05:48):
have a real friend Exactly.
That you only see in school.

Sarah (05:50):
Yeah.
There was a classmate who tookinterest in her.
Her name is Terry.

Cole (05:54):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (05:54):
Terry, liked Pixie, kind of felt bad for her, wanted to
hang out.

Cole (05:58):
Male or female?
Terry?

Sarah (05:59):
Female.

Cole (06:00):
Okay.

Sarah (06:01):
After one summer break, Terry noticed that Pixie
returned to school pregnant.

Cole (06:06):
Hmm.
Yeah.
That'll catch your eye.

Sarah (06:07):
Yep.
Pixie claimed it was a Navy manthat knocked her up and he's
gone now.

Cole (06:13):
So it's the sailors.

Sarah (06:14):
Mm-hmm.

Cole (06:15):
How convenient.

Sarah (06:16):
Pixie was a senior in high school, and she was due to
give birth that October.
This is the, so this has beenearly nineties, 89, 90 school
year.
Okay.
At the same high school, a newboy recently enrolled.
Mm-hmm.
His name is Joel.
Good.

Cole (06:31):
Oh, is he gonna be a good guy?

Sarah (06:33):
Yeah.

Cole (06:33):
Okay.
He's a good guy.
Fitting name?

Sarah (06:35):
Yeah, it really is.
Joel moved in with his AuntTheresa after moving out of his
grandparents' house because bothof his parents passed away.

Cole (06:44):
Okay.

Sarah (06:45):
Joel became friends with Terry, and Joel had a crush on
Terry's twin sister Tracy.

Cole (06:51):
Okay.

Sarah (06:53):
When Joel asked Tracy to the prom, she politely declined
and told him she was alreadyseeing someone.
But Tracy and Terry wanted tohelp Joel and they also liked
Pixie.
Mm-hmm.
So they thought maybe they wouldgo well together.
Yeah.
Set up a little matchmakingthere.
Joel was a little bit, he wasslower., He was held back a

(07:14):
year.
And he did have learningdisability, develop
developmental challenges.
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
And Pixie was also held back ayear.

Cole (07:21):
Yeah.
We know her situation.

Sarah (07:24):
Yeah.
She was held back a year.
Actually.
She was held back a year inelementary school because she
missed two months of schoolbecause she got burned so bad in
a cooking accident at home.

Cole (07:34):
Oh,

Sarah (07:35):
yeah.

Cole (07:36):
Sounds legit.

Sarah (07:36):
Yep.
That wasn't looked into.

Cole (07:39):
Why would it be

Sarah (07:39):
exactly?
Pixie agreed to go to the promwith Joel and Eddie Lee,
surprisingly allowed it.

Cole (07:46):
Oh.
I was waiting for the hammer tocome down.

Sarah (07:48):
Well, pixie was pregnant.

Cole (07:49):
Yeah.

Sarah (07:50):
Remember?
Oh, yeah.
He's fine.
They can have boyfriends afterhe's Yes.

Cole (07:54):
Taken the V card.

Sarah (07:55):
Yes.
Yeah.
When Joel picked up Pixie at herhouse, he had a corsage ready
for her.
Mm-hmm.
He was excited.
He was doing

Cole (08:03):
the, doing the prom, the thing.
Yeah.
The gentleman thing he'ssupposed to do.

Sarah (08:07):
When she came out, she was already wearing a corsage
from her dad.

Cole (08:13):
Creepy.

Sarah (08:14):
And she didn't take it off.
She never took Joel's corsage.
Ugh.
Yeah.
After prom it just fizzled out.
They didn't hang out oranything.
That was it.
Okay.
But then the summer aftergraduation, Joel decided to
shoot his shot again and invitedPixie to a family cookout.

Cole (08:30):
Okay.
So they're both 18 ish?
Yeah.
At this point?
Yeah.

Sarah (08:33):
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Um, they went to the familycookout and then for their next
date, Joel was allowed to goover to Pix, he's house.
Ooh.
So soon enough Joel was visitingher house a few times a week
back and forth.
Yeah.
Joel's Aunt Theresa mentioned.
When Pixie and Joel would spendtime at her house, they would
sometimes bring Dixie's brotherWillie to hang out with them,

(08:56):
and they would all just sit andwatch the TV in silence.
She said they were the quietestteens ever.

Cole (09:03):
Okay.

Sarah (09:04):
So Theresa's starting to pick up some odd mannerisms.
Yeah.
Theresa would also go on to talkabout the blank.
Far off stare that Oh yeah.
The Sexton kids did the

Cole (09:15):
thousand yard stare.
The

Sarah (09:16):
Sexton stare.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of children with traumahave that stare.
Mm-hmm.
For this family, it was veryobvious'cause 12 kids were doing
it.
Yeah.
Theresa was never really toosure about Pixie and her family.
She did hear a rumor from a boyin the neighborhood that the
Sextons were in a cult.
The boys said that they would doweird rituals and sometimes the

(09:39):
sexton boys would come to schoolall beat up and bruised.

Cole (09:43):
Okay.

Sarah (09:44):
Yeah.
Even though Theresa was havingsome doubts Joel was just
smitten and he was, he wanted tomarry pixie.

Cole (09:53):
Mm-hmm.
And obviously I'm assuming he'saware that she's pregnant, like
it's starting to show Yeah.
Or, okay.
So he knows that his crush ispregnant with somebody else's.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's just

Sarah (10:04):
happy to be a part of the family.
Yeah.
You know, in September, Joeltells Theresa that he was going
to move to Montana with Pixieand her family.

Cole (10:14):
He tells his aunt mm-hmm.
And guardian that he's, oh,maybe he's the guardian at 18.
But anyway, his closestrelative.
Mm-hmm.
He's moving with his girlfriendand her entire family.
To the wilds of Montana?

Sarah (10:27):
Yes.

Cole (10:27):
All right.

Sarah (10:28):
Eddie Lee was going to buy a big ranch on the top of a
mountain with hundreds of acres.
With his

Cole (10:33):
what?
Welfare cash?

Sarah (10:35):
It's that multimillion dollar deal with Wendy's and
Burger King.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He keeps saying that, but weknow that's not real.
Yeah, but he's saying that itwas time for Theresa now to have
a chat with the Sextons.
She was like, all right, you'retaking my boy.
Yeah.
Like, fuck that.
Theresa goes over to the houseon Caroline Street when she
knocks on the door.

(10:55):
Eddie Lee invites Theresa to sitout on the deck with him.
Okay.
Eddie Lee then starts askingTheresa about Joel's parents.
Moves into insuranceinformation, social security
questions, normals, normaltopics.
Yeah.

Cole (11:11):
Okay.

Sarah (11:12):
Theresa didn't buy it.
She found him to be very nosyand didn't like what he was
doing.

Cole (11:17):
Yeah.

Sarah (11:17):
Eddie Lee was very quick to dismiss any of Theresa's
concerns about moving to Montanaand spoke about it as if it was
done.
Mm-hmm.
Already purchased, ready to go,

Cole (11:27):
got a home waiting for us.

Sarah (11:28):
This is when he brought up that multimillion dollar
deal.
Yeah.
To Theresa,

Cole (11:32):
that two competing fast food chains have somehow decided
to mm-hmm.
Work together on, because thathappens.

Sarah (11:37):
Well, I'm glad you asked because what would he be
promoting for both of them?
What would he be doing?
He's promoting the future trons.

Cole (11:48):
Is this getting into sci-fi and robots?

Sarah (11:50):
He never, I never found an explanation for what it was.
It was just like, future beingsthat have powers and people
wanna get us.
It's more of a paranoia.
Like, all right, we're allpowerful.
And they even made, I thinkMichelle had to paint or draw
some mockups for them, for him.

Cole (12:07):
I'm sure those were elaborate

Sarah (12:09):
with like them in these futuristic costumes, kind of
jets and vibes.

Cole (12:15):
Okay.
Like Ironman suits

Sarah (12:17):
or like Star Trek.

Cole (12:18):
Okay.
Like

Sarah (12:18):
Trekky.
Yeah.
All

Cole (12:19):
right.

Sarah (12:20):
I saw a picture.
I'll try to look for it and Ican post it.
I hope I can find it again.
Um, but yes, he was saying theywere going to promote the future
Trons and he was going to bringhis daughter, Lana with him.
'cause they were the ones thathad that line on the palm of
their hand.
He's telling Theresa alloffense.

Cole (12:37):
Oh yeah.

Sarah (12:38):
He's saying these words out loud.
Okay.
Yes.
Theresa said, later, after shespoke to officials at the end of
all this, Theresa's recallingthis and she says his hands
looked normal.

Cole (12:50):
Yeah.

Sarah (12:51):
Like, Theresa's not phased by any of this bullshit.

Cole (12:53):
She's a normal person, right.

Sarah (12:54):
Talking about

Cole (12:55):
Yeah.
A crazy huckster.

Sarah (12:57):
Exactly.
You hear things about, um, oh,Eddie Lee was, smart and cunning
and, and I think he was to the,to certain people cu Yeah.
But.
I think with anyone with anounce of suspicion.
If anyone questioned him onanything, he didn't have like a
backup.

Cole (13:14):
Yeah.

Sarah (13:14):
He would go straight to future trons or like he would
just kind of give it up.

Cole (13:19):
It's how most con men work.
Yeah.
He's like, if you just have

Sarah (13:22):
a little bit of, if you

Cole (13:23):
have the basic common sense Yeah.
To ask a follow up question ortwo.
Usually the house of cardscollapse.

Sarah (13:29):
Right.

Cole (13:30):
Collapses.
That's just how it works.

Sarah (13:32):
Mm-hmm.
And I'm not blaming any of hisfamily members.
I mean, he has years and yearsof brainwashing them.
They're, but I'm talking peoplelike Theresa, the neighbor.
Yeah.
You know these people that arelike, what the fuck is this guy
doing?
Like, he wasn't out, like hewasn't that fantastic at
everything.
So for the police to not be ableto track anything down on him, I
kind of feel like they were lazyleading up to all of this.

(13:53):
Mm-hmm.
That's just my opinion.
It's not a fact, it's just myopinion.

Cole (14:00):
It's an alternative fact.

Sarah (14:01):
Yeah.
Eddie Lee then went on to saythat if any of the satanic cults
knew of Lana in her line on thepalm of her hand, that they
would be after her.
They would sacrifice her, andthey just, they would go all
out.

Cole (14:16):
Oh, okay.
So he's tapping into the Satanicpanic of the era.

Sarah (14:19):
Yes.
Yes.
Theresa told Eddie Lee that Joelwould not be moving with them to
Montana.
Good.
And he needed to stay home andhelp with his younger brother
and get his life started.

Cole (14:30):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
How did he react?

Sarah (14:33):
He accepted that Eddie Lee just said okay.
Oh no.

Cole (14:36):
What?
No.
Joel the, the boy did he,

Sarah (14:38):
oh, well, a few weeks later, Joel came home from the
Sextons mm-hmm.
And said that he and Pixie brokeup.

Cole (14:44):
Oh.

Sarah (14:45):
So nothing ever came of it.
Okay.
Because they broke up.

Cole (14:48):
Yeah.

Sarah (14:49):
While they were split, Joel got a job and his aunt
helped him get a small littleone bedroom apartment.
He was living on his own.

Cole (14:57):
Okay.

Sarah (14:57):
Yeah.
Then New Year's of 1991, pixieshow's backup in Joel's life.
Joel's other Aunt Velva, notvulva.
I know

Cole (15:11):
Malva, I know

Sarah (15:12):
Dolores Seinfelds.
Reference Seinfeld.
Yep.
Yep.

Cole (15:16):
You know, you know.

Sarah (15:17):
Yeah.
So Joel's other Aunt Velva

Cole (15:21):
Velva

Sarah (15:21):
lived near the apartment that he moved into, so she would
help check in on him.
Okay.
Um, it still wasn't too far fromTheresa, but she was like right
around the corner.

Cole (15:29):
All right.

Sarah (15:30):
Aunt Velva came home from work one day and saw Joel, pixie
and pixie daughter's, Dawn andShasta on her couch watching tv.
November of 1990, Shasta wasborn.
Okay, now this is New Year's of91.
She's a few months old.
Okay.
And Don is already a, a child.
Yeah.
She's already in the world, soSurprise.

(15:51):
I have another baby.
Mm-hmm.
Now I wanna be your girlfriendagain.
Joel.

Cole (15:54):
Yeah.

Sarah (15:55):
It turns out the Sextons never moved to Montana and Pixie
was claiming that Shasta wasfrom the same Navy man that gave
her Dawn

Cole (16:02):
The same Navy man.

Sarah (16:03):
Yep, the same one.

Cole (16:04):
Oh, well that's convenient.
So he comes to any port in astorm and then for some reason a
year later is back in the sameport, finds the same girl to
knock up a second time.

Sarah (16:13):
Yep.

Cole (16:15):
All right.

Sarah (16:15):
Just a one night stand twice.
And that's it.
Yeah.

Cole (16:18):
Why not just say it's a different Navy man.

Sarah (16:20):
It's pixie.
She doesn't know.
Pixie and Joel.
Went right back into datingagain.
This time it was way moreintense.
Joel would spend days and nightsat the Sextons.

Cole (16:30):
Okay.
Now they're older a little bit.

Sarah (16:32):
Yeah, they're a little bit older.
And now Hiney does live on hisown.
Yeah.
So Theresa doesn't have her eyeson him.
He can do what he wants.
We're gonna fast forward throughthe year to Christmas Eve of 91.
We were at the New Year, nowwe're at the end.
Okay.
Joel spent the holiday with hisown family, and they noticed how
he started to change physically.

(16:53):
He was more disheveled, a littlemore gaunt, un tempt, not taking
care of himself.
Yeah.

Cole (16:57):
Fitting into the, yeah.
Sex tent archetype.
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (17:01):
And then a few weeks go by and Joel's aunts haven't
heard from him.
They would call the Sexton houseasking where Joel was, and they
would always be given the sameanswer of, he's not here.

Cole (17:13):
Hmm

Sarah (17:13):
mm-hmm.
In January of 1992.
Mm-hmm.
A month later, Joel's littlebrother Danny got a call from
Joel saying that Pixie waspregnant and that he was gonna
marry her.

Cole (17:27):
You chose your words carefully.
Not that I got her pregnant, butthat just, she is pregnant.
Okay.

Sarah (17:34):
Joel did tell his brother Danny, that it's weird'cause he
uses condoms, but somehow itmust not have worked

Cole (17:44):
well.
At least he was using condoms.

Sarah (17:45):
Yeah, they plan to get married one month later on
Valentine's Day

Cole (17:50):
romantic.

Sarah (17:51):
At this point.
Joel's family is putting somepieces together.
They're all noticing the Sextonstare.
And Theresa just, she said toher sister or her dad, there's
something wrong with thatfamily.

Cole (18:06):
Yeah.

Sarah (18:06):
She's starting to see that.
It's the whole group valentine'sDay came and went.
What?
That Joel?
The marriage.
Oh, okay.
Joel's brother, Danny waswaiting around.
He was the best man.
He was actually excited'cause heis happy for his brother.
Mm-hmm.
And he was, you know, never in awedding before or anything.
He had a tux, all of it.

Cole (18:24):
Yeah,

Sarah (18:25):
they didn't hear anything.
Nothing.
The day went by.
So a

Cole (18:28):
no call, no show wedding from the guests of honor
wedding?
Yes.
Okay.

Sarah (18:31):
They heard nothing

Cole (18:32):
cute.

Sarah (18:33):
A few days later, Joel did go to his Aunt Teresa's
house alone.
He told her that he and Pixiegot married a few days before
Valentine's Day.

Cole (18:43):
Hmm.

Sarah (18:44):
And that the ceremony was at Eddie Lee's sister's house
and Eddie Lee officiated thewedding.
Theresa asked why they didn'ttell anyone and why they
couldn't have just waited a fewdays until Valentine's Day,
like, what's up with thesecrecy?
And he said, this is what theywanted.
And they told him that this wasthe best way to do it.

Cole (19:04):
Okay.
Well, I mean mm-hmm.
Seems like he's easilycontrolled.
Probably takes people out theirword.

Sarah (19:10):
Yeah.
And he's just, he's a sweetYeah.
Everything I read about him,he's just a nice, loving, caring
man and he just wants to have afamily.
Mm-hmm.
He wants that simple life.
However, pixie did miscarry thatFebruary.
Okay.
So nothing ever came of thatchild.
Now we're caught up with Pixieand Joel.

(19:31):
We're gonna jump a little bit toanother.
There's a lot happening all atonce with this family.
Yeah.
We're in April of 1992 now.

Cole (19:40):
All right.

Sarah (19:42):
This is when the DHS took the kids away from the family
home.

Cole (19:46):
All the minors.

Sarah (19:47):
All the minors, yeah.
Yes.

Cole (19:48):
Because there's still a few older ones that are allowed
to live there.
Right?

Sarah (19:53):
Well, pixie and Sherry had to move because they have
kids.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
They

Cole (19:56):
have kids.
So they'd take their kids out.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.

Sarah (19:59):
Yes.
Okay, so there might be, theremight be a couple 17 or, yeah.
There's no minors there.
Yeah.
After the kids were taken fromthe home later that same day, a
shelter hearing occurred, andthe DHS worker, Wayne Welsh,
interviewed the kids again.

Cole (20:14):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (20:15):
This time they were talking,

Cole (20:18):
they spilled the beans

Sarah (20:20):
a lot.
So here's your warning, everyone

Cole (20:23):
trigger.
Yeah,

Sarah (20:25):
there's a lot.
So turn it off now if you don'twanna hear it.
Charles, the 17-year-old son, hebegan crying.
He said that both parents beathim.
And one time Eddie Lee madeCharles and his brother Matt
stand naked in the living roomin front of everyone with their
arms outstretched, holdingencyclopedias.

Cole (20:46):
Oh, to see how long they could do it.

Sarah (20:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Cole (20:49):
Naked, I mean, yeah, it's clearly a,

Sarah (20:51):
yeah.

Cole (20:51):
I mean, it's clearly an abusive action.

Sarah (20:54):
Charles also said that his mom choked and scratched him
after she accused Charles ofmolesting his little sister,
Lana.
Charles said he didn't do that,and I don't know, I've, I don't
know what the fact is on that.
Yeah.
Either way.
May choked and scratched herchild.

Cole (21:10):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (21:11):
Charles also said that his dad would beat May and once
pointed a shotgun at her head.
Another son, Matt, he said thatMichelle told him that she saw
Pixie and their dad having sexon the couch

Cole (21:29):
at tracks.

Sarah (21:31):
Yeah.

Cole (21:32):
I feel like I know what the spoiler is gonna, or not the
spoiler, but the, I know whatthe identity of the.
Children's father is gonna be,and it's not gonna be a sailor.

Sarah (21:41):
I think we all know at this point.
Yeah.
With the identity of this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not really trying to,there's no

Cole (21:45):
phantom sailor who comes back every year to knock up the
same girl and leave.

Sarah (21:49):
No, we know who the dad is.
I just, Ugh.
It's so gross.
Anyway, James Sexton one of theother sons.
He's 16 at this time.
He said everyone was beaten andthat

Cole (22:02):
it's a free for all.
Everyone's hitting everyone.

Sarah (22:04):
Yeah.
And then quote, there's a lot ofsex in the family.

Cole (22:09):
So it's just like a incestuous pile, like a free for
all.
Yeah.
We'll get more stories.

Sarah (22:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
James mentioned a game, thatthey called the Loving Belly.

Cole (22:23):
Uh,

Sarah (22:24):
yep.
Um, The Love and belly game waswhen James and his younger
sister Kim, who's the youngest.

Cole (22:34):
Yeah.
She's the baby of the family.
Like eight

Sarah (22:35):
or seven.
Yeah.
I don't know when this happened,but she's the youngest.
Yeah.
James and his youngest sisterKim would have to sniff each
other's stomachs, armpits, legsand feet.
I don't know why.
Oh, oh, okay.
That that was it.
That's the game.

Cole (22:52):
Oh

Sarah (22:52):
yeah.
They did weird stuff like this.
I don't know.
Like for Eddie.

Cole (22:55):
Is Eddie like watching them do it?

Sarah (22:57):
I don't know.
Like under,

Cole (22:58):
yeah.

Sarah (22:59):
James.
That's how he said it.
So these kids again givefragmented pieces.
Yeah.
It's,

Cole (23:04):
and kids speak.

Sarah (23:05):
I'm assuming that Eddie Lee watched.
To me, this looks like apredator who is making weird
things seem normal.
Yeah.
So when he asks for a weirderthing, just resolve.
Yeah.
It's incremental.
It feels like something likethat, that's my only guess.
Or James isn't telling usanother piece.
Yeah.
Which could be a mix of both.

Cole (23:25):
Yeah.
Who knows?
Either way.
It's bizarre.

Sarah (23:27):
Yeah.
James also said that Eddie Leewould typically use the belt to
whoop them, and when they were18, they graduated from the belt
and went to the fist.

Cole (23:38):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (23:40):
I thought I'd be at 18.

Cole (23:41):
You don't get to touch me again.
Yeah.
Because I'm an adult.
Right.
And if you touch me, I'm gonnatouch you back.

Sarah (23:45):
Yeah.

Cole (23:45):
And we have the same legal standing at that point.

Sarah (23:48):
More and more stories would arise.
Eddie Lee would promise them atrip to Disney World or the
mountaintop ranch in Montana.
All these like, good things, butthey always came with a price.
Mm-hmm.

Cole (24:00):
They always,

Sarah (24:01):
it was always a stick and carrot thing.
And the stick was always worsethan that carrot.
The carrot never existed.
Yeah.
it's

Cole (24:07):
not a characteristic, it's a stick or a fist.

Sarah (24:09):
Yeah, it's a stick or a fist.
James said he never wanted to goback home or see his parents
again.
He said that his dad would shoothim if he went back home.

Cole (24:19):
Sounds accurate.

Sarah (24:20):
Yeah.
Here are some other stories ofabuse that I have.
I couldn't really organizeexactly when all of these things
happen, but in the interviews ofthe kids, and

Cole (24:30):
often just from my experience, when kids relate
abuse, like their timeperspective is off.
Yes.
We as adults like to think andthink when, where, what, but
kids, they don't.
Dad touched me.
When did this happen?
Was it last week?
Last year?
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Which one?
Yeah.
Like they just, they don't thinkin the way that an adulthood to

(24:51):
remember the date, the time.

Sarah (24:53):
Mm-hmm.

Cole (24:54):
Yeah.

Sarah (24:54):
And these kids weren't allowed to be outside a whole, I
mean, they did go to school, soI guess they could know the
date.
Yeah.
But they were, but their day

Cole (25:00):
to day seems pretty similar.
Like every day is routine.
So.
Over time.
There's a lot differentiationbetween when things happen.

Sarah (25:08):
Yeah.
Their memories are blur.
It's all

Cole (25:09):
one long day.
Mm-hmm.
A long nightmare.

Sarah (25:12):
Yeah.
So here are some more storiesfrom them.
Michelle said that she got thefist once for talking to a black
person.

Cole (25:19):
Oh.
Just for that.
So he's a racist too.
Surprise, surprise.

Sarah (25:22):
They're racist.
Didn't, we didn't touch

Cole (25:23):
on that.
It never really came up.
But yeah, that tracks, I mean,why would they not be?

Sarah (25:27):
Yep.
Well, you have to be better thansomeone.

Cole (25:29):
Yeah.
We might be incestuous, but atleast we ain't like them.
What?
Yeah.
That, that aren't our incest.

Sarah (25:35):
I know.
It doesn't make any sense.
The kids also mentioned thatwhenever they got a beating,
they were always naked.

Cole (25:43):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (25:44):
One time Eddie Lee paddled the kids just to see who
could last the longest.
Hmm.
And May would sometimes join inon these beatings.

Cole (25:53):
Yeah.
I figures.

Sarah (25:54):
Mm-hmm.
Children would be locked inclosets for a day or more at a
time.
Michelle herself was locked inthe closet once for buying a
deck of cards.
Yeah.
While she was in there, EddieLee sprayed Roach spray through
the crack causing Michelle topass out.

Cole (26:12):
Yeah.

Sarah (26:13):
Now,

Cole (26:15):
yeah,

Sarah (26:15):
may at this point was actually feeling bad for
Michelle and took her out of thecloset.
Oh yeah.
But when Eddie Lee found out hebeat May and put Michelle back
in the closet.

Cole (26:26):
Hmm.
See May.
There's no point in being on hisside.

Sarah (26:30):
No, there's not.

Cole (26:32):
Yeah.

Sarah (26:32):
He doesn't love you.

Cole (26:33):
No.

Sarah (26:35):
The kids said that their mom knew what was happening, but
that she was too scared to sayanything.
So the kids are kind of spliton, like blaming their mom.
They'll tell stories and like,yeah, my mom did this.
But then the older ones willsay, but she was also a part of,
it's,

Cole (26:50):
it's the typical good cop, bad cop with parents.
Mm-hmm.
Of like when there's a, eventhough they're both abusive,
one's always gonna be a littlebit worse.
Yeah.
So the lesser seems good bycomparison.

Sarah (26:59):
Yeah, that's true.
True.
You just didn't

Cole (27:01):
do as much shit to you.
That's it.

Sarah (27:03):
Yeah.
She allowed all of it though.

Cole (27:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Sarah (27:06):
The kids were not allowed to make phone calls.
There were only two phones inthe house, which is, uh, it's
pretty normal.
Yeah.
It's not unusual.
But one was in the hallway andone was in the master bedroom.
Eddie Lee would, randomly hitredial on the phone to see if
they called anyone.
Redial for anyone young who'slistening Yeah.
Is a button you could push backin the day when you didn't know

(27:28):
who called you.
'cause you didn't have caller IDor a way to see, and

Cole (27:30):
he just call the last number that was placed.

Sarah (27:31):
And he, so he's actively cold calling numbers.
Yeah.
That he doesn't know.
Imagine like, what do cringe yousay

Cole (27:38):
to people on the other end?
Like when they just pick uplike, hello?
Like what's these, hi.
Did someone, this is Eddie Lee.
Did anyone from my householdcall you recently?

Sarah (27:45):
Yeah.

Cole (27:46):
Like

Sarah (27:47):
I, you never got phone calls randomly like that.
I remember Star

Cole (27:50):
69 was the way to look up who had called you.

Sarah (27:54):
Ah, yeah.

Cole (27:55):
Before caller id.
You could star 69.
That's right.
And it would tell you the lastnumber to have called your
phone.
I remember.
But you didn't know who it wasnecessarily.

Sarah (28:02):
Yeah.
Well, when the Redialingrandomly was not enough for
Eddie, he would buy a devicefrom Radio Shack that would
record all of the phone calls.

Cole (28:14):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (28:14):
Because these kids got smart and if they did make a
phone call, they would justquickly call like the weather
service.

Cole (28:21):
Yeah.

Sarah (28:21):
Just to be like, oh, we checked the weather, dad.
That's what we did.
Yeah.
Throw him off

Cole (28:24):
just a generic number.
Yeah.
Right.

Sarah (28:25):
Now here's another thing that Eddie Lee would say, I
forgot what child said this, buthe would go around and say, I
got some butt tonight, or I'llbe up tonight getting some butt.

Cole (28:40):
Okay.

Sarah (28:40):
Yeah.
Like his, who

Cole (28:41):
would he say this to?
Just

Sarah (28:43):
around his family.
Oh, okay.
Around the house.
Like, oh, I got some butttonight.
Like, as like a, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But like it's about hischildren.
Yeah.
Like he's like bragging to hisfamily about abusing them.
It's so fucked up.
One time he took the boys intothe bathroom and he measured all
of their penises.

(29:05):
Michelle told the.
Yeah.
Um, Michelle told the story, andin telling the story, Michelle
was able to recite all of theirsizes,

Cole (29:15):
all of her brother's Yes.
Penis sizes.

Sarah (29:18):
Yes.
And then she relayed the storythat Charles was the shortest,
and Eddie Lee made fun of himfor it.
So Charles then responded aslike a child would, and he said,
it's because I wasn't hard likethe rest.

Cole (29:35):
And then

Sarah (29:35):
Eddie Lee offered another try and Charles refused.

Cole (29:41):
Yeah.
Okay.

Sarah (29:43):
Right.
Yep.
We're gonna move on.
Yeah.
Um, so daughter Lana, she's 12.
She confirmed a lot of thesestories.
Finally after 13 years,'causeall this shit started in 1979.
Granted in the early, in thelate seventies, early eighties,
they were more mischievous kidsdoing mm-hmm.

(30:04):
Mischievous things.
But I mean, I would say there'senough from 1979 to 1992 that
they can, the authorities can dosomething at this point.
Yeah.

Cole (30:13):
And also maybe I'm getting a little off, but if the powers
that be want to get any one ofus for something, it can be
done.

Sarah (30:22):
Yes.

Cole (30:22):
So, no, we can't bring a case against him.
I'm like, find something.

Sarah (30:26):
Yes, you can.

Cole (30:27):
You can.
They brought down Al Capone withtax evasion.

Sarah (30:29):
Yeah.

Cole (30:30):
He wasn't convicted of any of his actual real crimes.
They could find any, they couldfind tax evasion for anyone if
they wanted to,

Sarah (30:35):
um, you know, beating and kidnapping essentially.
Yeah.
His nephew, yeah, his adultnephew from the first episode
that he did get legal guardianfor somehow, but then was
holding hostage.
Yeah.
And the police came, uh, rightthere.

Cole (30:50):
Yeah,

Sarah (30:50):
right there.
Do something, fucking dosomething.
Anyway, after all of this time,13 god damn years, finally, DHS
wrote something substantial intheir fucking file.
Sorry, I have worked with thisfor so long.
No, I get it.
I get it.
It pisses me off.

Cole (31:09):
Yeah, I see it all the time.

Sarah (31:11):
So in the sex and file, finally they were able to write,
abuse and emotional maltreatmentare both substantiated.

Cole (31:20):
Cool.

Sarah (31:20):
So that's something like solid.
Yeah.
Here we go.
And then enter Detective Glen.
Go GOE.

Cole (31:27):
Okay.
So he's a police detective?

Sarah (31:29):
Yes.

Cole (31:30):
Okay.

Sarah (31:31):
So we have Wayne Welsh from DHS Glen Go.
Detective.

Cole (31:35):
Do you know what department he's from?

Sarah (31:37):
Um, Ohio.
Canton.
Oh, summer.
Ohio Star, stark County, Ohio.
Okay.
Sorry.
Cool.

Cole (31:41):
Gotcha.

Sarah (31:42):
Yes.
Otis Sexton is where we'restarting with Detective Glen
Gogh.
Do we remember Otis?

Cole (31:49):
Yes.
He's not at, he's the olderbrother of Eddie.
Of Eddie?
Yes.
Uh, but he's not like in thefamily.
No, he's not in the household.
He's his own dude's.
No, he's fine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's just his own.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can't pick your brothers kind ofthing.

Sarah (32:01):
Right.
So Uncle Otis and Michelle, theygo to the police station to
talk.
They want Eddie Lee arrested.

Cole (32:09):
Okay.
So his own brother is turnedagainst him.
Yes.
Like Grand Brother's fucked.
He's

Sarah (32:12):
taking care of Michelle now.
Like Michelle goes back andforth with Uncle Otis a lot or
another foster family.
Yeah.
She's just all over the place.
Okay.
She's trying her best.
Yeah.
So they go to the policestation, they want to have Eddie
Lee arrested.
Detective Go is the one thatinterviews them.
He wasn't too fond of putting acase together on Michelle's word

(32:35):
alone because of.
Her fragmented stories.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Her, her sex and stare.
All the things that show thatsomeone's been through shit,
apparently work against you.
If you're bubbly and nice thenyou can prove that you've been
abused.
But if you act abused youanyway.
Yeah.
There's a lot of issues, but he,detective Gogh did not feel like

(32:56):
Michelle's word alone would beenough.
Yeah.
You

Cole (32:58):
gotta have unfor, I mean

Sarah (32:59):
mm-hmm.
You

Cole (33:00):
gotta have corroborating evidence.
Yeah.
If you're, she was also, I mean,

Sarah (33:02):
she was forgetful too.
Yeah.
She would kind of change storiesif your stories were saying do
change, you know?
Not, not, not

Cole (33:08):
cause it's deliberately like lying or trying to mislead.
It's just,

Sarah (33:10):
I think they, she was trying Yeah.
To tell the truth, but thingsgot messy.
Yeah.
Your brain protects you andtries to block a lot of things.

Cole (33:18):
Yeah.
And your brain, your memory isnot a recording device.

Sarah (33:20):
Mm-hmm.
Wayne Welsh was also at thepolice station for this
interview too.
Okay.
Um, he was more concerned aboutwho the father of Pixie kids
were.

Cole (33:33):
It's about fucking time.
Someone started asking thisgoddamn questions.
Yes.

Sarah (33:37):
Oh, Wayne Welsh is in the background.
Okay.
I think Welsh was waiting for itto be a real case.
Yeah.
He was frustrated too, that hecouldn't like, get anything
together.
Yeah.
I'm sure.
And d Hs.
Not a lot of DHS workers are law

Cole (33:48):
enforcement.
They don't have the power tomake an arrest or Right.
Charge anyone.
Yeah.
And just investigate.

Sarah (33:54):
Yes.
I think Welsh was very eager tobe like, let's go.
Yeah.
And so he's like, all right.
What about pixie kids?
Yeah.
Because that's been weighing onhis mind.
Michelle said that one night,her and a few of her siblings
were also wondering who's the,who's the father of Pixie kids?
So one night, um, pixie wassleeping in the living room

(34:15):
because they had to sleep inextra rooms.
Mm-hmm.
Because they couldn't all fit inthe bedrooms.
There were so many people inthat house.
Michelle pretended to besleepwalking and she walked over
in the area and she saw her dadand Pixie naked together and
told Welsh they were doing whata husband and wife do.

Cole (34:37):
How biblical.

Sarah (34:38):
Yeah.
So there's that.
Now it was Otis's turn to beinterviewed.

Cole (34:45):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (34:46):
So Otis, I'm conflicted about him.
He does, I think he's good, butalso he could have been better.

Cole (34:53):
Okay.

Sarah (34:54):
Right.
Otis said that he has been awareof the abuse for 10 to 15 years.
Okay.
Ever since, you know, 1979.

Cole (35:03):
So why didn't he speak up?

Sarah (35:05):
Right?

Cole (35:05):
Not my problem.

Sarah (35:06):
He said that his daughters were babysitting for
Eddie Lee in May one time, andwhen they were over at their
house, Otis's daughters calledhim and they said that the kids
that were home were tied up.

Cole (35:20):
So when they get to the house to be babysitting, they
find they're tied up.
Already.
Tied up.

Sarah (35:23):
They're tied.
Yes.
And this occurred.
At least three times with Otis'sdaughters babysitting Eddie Lee.
So the daughters thought it

Cole (35:32):
was weird enough to call their dad and be like, Hey, this
is kind of weird.
We came to babysit our cousins.
Yeah.
And they're all fucking tied up.

Sarah (35:38):
Yeah.

Cole (35:38):
And Otis was just like, well, different strokes.

Sarah (35:42):
I mean, Otis is upset about it, but he doesn't in in
in the future.
He does say that he did reportat least like nine times to dhs.
Oh, okay.
However, there's literally norecord of it.

Cole (35:52):
Mm-hmm.
That's convenient.
If I came to babysit some kidsand I found them tied up, I
would probably call the police.
Exactly.
Not DHSI would be like, Hey, Ijust walked in and there's a
bunch of kids bound and ged.

Sarah (36:03):
Yeah.
Now Otis did tell his sister,Eddie Lee's sister, their
sister, and she was the one thatmade the anonymous referral in
1979.
Mm-hmm.
There was a few anonymous ones,but still no one called the
police.
Yeah.
Otis also suspected incest.
There was one time he was on apainting job with Eddie Lee and

(36:24):
Sherry, one of the daughters ofEddie Lee.
Yeah.
One

Cole (36:27):
of the daughter.
Yeah.

Sarah (36:28):
Sherry was 15 at the time, and Otis saw Eddie Lee and
Sherry kiss a few times in aweird way,

Cole (36:36):
non father to daughter away.

Sarah (36:38):
Yeah.

Cole (36:40):
Well, that's odd.
Anyway, keep painting, keeppainting.
Do do, do.

Sarah (36:44):
Now, when Sherry became pregnant, because remember she's
got a son.

Cole (36:49):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (36:50):
Uncle Otis asked her about the father knowing that
the daughters were not allowedto date.
He was like, who's the dad?

Cole (36:56):
Yeah,

Sarah (36:57):
Sherry said it was a boy that she worked with at a
restaurant that they had sex inthe walk and cooler.
Okay.
Otis though was suspicious ofthe timeline seeing that Sherry
hasn't worked at that restaurantfor 15 months.

Cole (37:10):
Ah, okay.
I also, this popped in my head,but I know she's, what Pixie
claimed that the father of hertwo kids was the same Navy man.
Mm-hmm.
But they're in Ohio.

Sarah (37:21):
Yeah.
I thought that too.
But I don't know about themilitary that much.
I mean, there could

Cole (37:25):
be a, I maybe there could be a naval base.
I don't know.
Um, the Great Lake that Ohioborders, but I mean, is it

Sarah (37:32):
Erie?

Cole (37:32):
Is that Erie?
Is that Yeah.
'cause Superior.

Sarah (37:37):
We're getting the hands out.

Cole (37:38):
Yeah.
Okay.
Michigan Superior, Huron.
Yeah.
'cause Ontario is the one thatdoes not touch Michigan.
Okay.
Ontario's the furthest one.
Yeah.
So yeah, lake Erie.
So there could be a naval base.
I doubt.
I mean Coast Guard for sure.
But anyway, she

Sarah (37:53):
was saying Navy,

Cole (37:53):
regardless.
Yeah.
Not a lot of Navy ports in thelandlocked state.

Sarah (37:57):
No, I don't think so.
But yeah, so Otis, he knew moreand he just wasn't reporting
stuff, yeah.
He, he should have done moreearlier, I think.
But he does show up.
He does show up at the end.
I don't know if he just mm-hmm.
Was trying to hide from all ofit, kind of that Denial.
Denial.
And then when it came to light,he was like, yeah, I can't,

(38:17):
like, I can't.
Yeah.
So ultimately a good man, butstruggled in the beginning.
Detective go, went on tointerview Otis's daughters,
they're now adults, Mm-hmm.
And they confirmed that the kidswere tied to their beds by their
wrists and ankles.
Mm.
Their hands were purple and theywere sitting in their own waist.

Cole (38:39):
All right.

Sarah (38:40):
Other times when they would babysit, would find the
kids naked in a dark room withno furniture and there would be
urine and feces on the floor.

Cole (38:49):
It's amazing that this happened repeatedly.
Yeah.
That they would babysit, gohome, come back, babysit again,
come like, mm-hmm.
What?

Sarah (38:56):
At a certain point, why would Otis trust his kids?
Yeah.
To be at that house.
Yeah.
Even if you're not, not callingauthorities.
Yeah.
You're sending your kids talk

Cole (39:04):
into a household where other kids are tied up and
shitting themselves and left toYeah.

Sarah (39:09):
God.
When James was a toddler, he wasfound in a playpen, in a dark
room with a blanket drape overthe window, and he must have
been like this a lot when he wasyounger because he got so
sensitive to the light that hewould cry from the light burning
his eyes.

Cole (39:27):
Oh yeah.
That's, have you seen somethinglike that?
Yeah.
Not.
Firsthand in my cases, but I've,you know, written about'em, read
several of, you know, thesecases where, you know, a person,
a child usually to be going withis kept isolated in a room
locked up by parent or,caregiver for years, and their

(39:47):
eyes become so sensitive.
Too light that it's, yeah, it's,it's painful.

Sarah (39:53):
Oh my God.
Yeah.

Cole (39:54):
Yeah.

Sarah (39:55):
One of Otis's daughters said that whenever it would
rain, the kids would go outsideand look up into the rain and
wait for Jesus to come.
That's just a weird, yeah.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Now, after hearing all of thisdetective go, wanted Michelle to
do a polygraph test, he's kindof annoying.

(40:18):
I mean, he, he pursues, he doespush through, but in the
beginning, I feel like hedoesn't wanna deal with it.
Honestly, I don't understand

Cole (40:24):
why the polygraph is ever used by anyone ever.
This is the nineties when theystill felt it was, it's, yeah.
But it is still used by people.
They still use it all the time.
And I'm like, what the fuck forit's pseudoscience?
Mm-hmm.
It's gibberish.
It's nonsensical.
Mm-hmm.
It's not used in court.
I would fail.
Fail.
So what is the point of it?

Sarah (40:40):
You can ask me my name and my birthday.
Yeah.
And I will fail because if I'mhooked up to something to my
heart, immediately my heartstarts pounding.
That's all it.

Cole (40:48):
It's stupid.

Sarah (40:49):
Michelle agreed to the polygraph test.
And she passed.

Cole (40:54):
Okay.

Sarah (40:56):
So maybe this would be enough for a detective.
Go.

Cole (40:57):
It's weird.
They would have the, thecomplainant take a polygraph.
To me.
To me, this is weird.
Mm-hmm.
Because even if you know shepasses, great, but that itself
is not admissible evidence thatanything happened.
So what is the point?
Typically cops will polygraphthe suspect.
Again, they can't use that, butit's more mostly just a fuck

(41:18):
with their head.

Sarah (41:19):
Yeah.

Cole (41:20):
But I

Sarah (41:20):
think, um, again, during, I mentioned this in the first
episode, the culture of thenineties was kids lie.

Cole (41:27):
Oh yeah.

Sarah (41:27):
Satanic, panic, all of that.
No one believed in anything.
I mean, what was the, those kidsdown south?
Um.
Five or something, Where wasthat?
Oh,

Cole (41:36):
oh.
Um, the west, uh, west Memphis,three in Arkansas.
The

Sarah (41:39):
three Oh, I get them mixed up with the Central Park.
Five.

Cole (41:41):
Yeah.
Central Park five was the, I getthe numbers.
The rapist of the jogger.
Yes.

Sarah (41:45):
Um, all, all of that is what's going on right now.
So I think that thesedetectives, the police station,
all of them didn't believe thesekids.

Cole (41:54):
Yeah.

Sarah (41:54):
And it's easier to not believe them.

Cole (41:58):
Yeah.
And kids are fanciful, they makeup stories.
Yeah.
They're imaginative.
They have, yeah.
You know,

Sarah (42:03):
but do they make up stories like the love and belly
game?

Cole (42:06):
Yeah.
No.

Sarah (42:06):
Do they make up that kinda shit?
They don don't.
I've covered

Cole (42:08):
numerous.
Sexual assault trials involvingchildren, witnesses, and, you
know, very, very young.
And, you know, the defense isoften that, they're just making
it up, but, and they'll givedetails in kid terminology.
Yeah.
That they're just like, well,where would they, where would
this 4-year-old know these

Sarah (42:26):
things?

Cole (42:26):
Things?

Sarah (42:27):
Yeah.
If

Cole (42:27):
not from experience.
Mm-hmm.
Like, it doesn't make any sensethat a 4-year-old would speak in
these terms about things thatthey should have no knowledge
of.

Sarah (42:37):
Yes.
While the kids were split up indifferent homes, some of them
had siblings with them, otherswere on their own.
Yeah.
Depending on, how they got alongand age and all that
relationship.
Yeah.

Cole (42:48):
Yeah.

Sarah (42:49):
Eddie Lee in May.
Would sneak to see the kids,even though there was a no
contact order in place.
Mm-hmm.
They would be on the schoolgrounds during recess or, before
or after school.
Yeah.
They'd kind of sneak up onto theschool grounds again.
The nineties.
This

Cole (43:04):
Is the pre Columbine.

Sarah (43:06):
Yes.

Cole (43:06):
Before there was a mass shooting every other day.

Sarah (43:08):
Yep, yep.
They would go into schoolgrounds, try to talk to them,
they would, sneak to thechurches.
They would go to, They wouldsneak phone calls, whatever they
could do to contact them.
They would,

Cole (43:18):
yeah.

Sarah (43:18):
James Sexton, one of the sons.
He called his Uncle Otis onetime and told him that his dad
said that he was gonna pick themup that night.
'cause James was staying withsome other brothers.
Yeah.
At a foster home.
James hates his parents.
He, when he got out, he didn'tturn back.
Okay, good.
So when his dad said he is gonnapick them up, James did the

(43:39):
right thing and called Otis?
Yeah.
And he said, Hey, dad said this.
Yeah.
What do we do?
Dad

Cole (43:44):
said he is gonna violated court or mm-hmm.
That should violate his bond andline him in jail.
Yes.

Sarah (43:47):
So Otis called DHS and upon interviewing the boys, they
admitted that Eddie Lee hadarranged secret walks with them.

Cole (43:57):
Okay.

Sarah (43:58):
So he's having walks with them, making plans, all this.
So you just mentioned violatingthe no contact order.
Yeah.
What would that do legally?

Cole (44:07):
That should revoke his bond and he winds up in jail.
At least that's how it happensNow.
What do do you mean

Sarah (44:12):
bond?
He's didn't, he's never beenarrested yet.
He's, he's not been charged

Cole (44:15):
with a crime though, so, yeah.

Sarah (44:17):
It is only a no contact order.
So he's not out on bonds, butit's a

Cole (44:20):
court no contact order issued by a judge, I'm assuming
of Yes.
Probate court.
So he is, he still could befinding contempt of court and
then lodged in jail for a termthat the judge could, determine,
a week, a month, whatever, forsomething contempt.
Okay.
'cause just to like, Hey, I putthis order in line, you're
breaking it.
Okay.
This is the consequence.
Okay.
Can't hold indefinitely.
But there's, there's ways tolike, alright, oh shit, you're

(44:42):
gonna spend a week in jail untilyou learn your lesson.

Sarah (44:45):
That pisses me off even more than,'cause I didn't know,
'cause I knew there was nothinglegal, legal, legal, really.
Like he wasn't arrested yet.
There were no charges on him.
So I just thought the no contactorder was just like, ugh,
whatever.

Cole (44:56):
Yeah.

Sarah (44:56):
But I didn't realize they could take action mm-hmm.
On him violent because heviolates it the whole time.
He never stops.
Yeah.
And there's evidence of him, thekids say things.
Mm-hmm.
And the police did nothing.

Cole (45:09):
Yeah.

Sarah (45:10):
Well, moving on to Charles, who's 17.
Mm-hmm.
He was in a foster home.
He was still in secret contactwith his dad as well.
Only a few days after theirremoval from the house on
Caroline Street, Charles andMatt, brothers mm-hmm.
Went to the skate park andcalled their mom to let them
know where they were.
Eddie Lee in May then came andpicked them up and took them

(45:32):
back to their house and theyoffered the boys pizza and
cigarettes winning them over.
Eddie Lee made a deal with hisson, Charles, that Charles would
tell him everything, let himknow where he was, where he
goes, and what he does.
Charles does say today that heregrets.
Yeah.
Letting him know.
You think, well, Charles was 17.

(45:53):
He's an adult now.
And you know James was

Cole (45:56):
younger, right?

Sarah (45:57):
Yes.

Cole (45:57):
Okay.
Well, James Younger already knewwhat the fuck was going on.

Sarah (46:00):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

Cole (46:01):
So

Sarah (46:02):
when it was discovered that Charles had given up where
he was staying, they moved himto a juvenile detention
facility.

Cole (46:10):
Hmm.

Sarah (46:10):
So they,

Cole (46:10):
so they jailed the victim for violating the no contact
order?
Not honestly.
That's how I felt too.
not the assailant Rev violatingthe no contact order.
Cute.

Sarah (46:17):
That's what I thought.
And I was trying to give themthe benefit of the doubt of
like, maybe it's a nice juvenilefacility or something, but I
don't think so.
I don't know any stories,nothing that happened there, but
I, I thought the same thing.
Why are they punishing him?

Cole (46:30):
Yeah.
And

Sarah (46:31):
not going after the parents.

Cole (46:32):
Yep.

Sarah (46:33):
That brought them into their house and created this
plan with them.
Yeah.

Cole (46:38):
And you said gave him cigarettes, so Yeah, there you
go.
Some them are minor, so they'rethat, that is a crime right
there.
It's enough to arrest him.
Jail.
I on right there.

Sarah (46:45):
So you're right.
If they really wanted him Yeah.
They could have had him time andtime and time again.
We don't need three parts tothis story.
Yeah, sorry.
Yelling.
Even

Cole (46:54):
if nothing, even if nothing sticks long term for a
conviction, just make his lifemiserable by bringing him in
every week to charge him withsome petty offense.

Sarah (47:01):
Yeah.

Cole (47:01):
Just to be like, we're watching you.
Stop it.
Keep him away from the

Sarah (47:03):
kids.
Keep him busy with his own shitaway from his family.
My God.
He's not like an upstandingperson in the community either.
Like there's nothing, there's noreason.
Yeah.
It's not, not like he's

Cole (47:14):
the fucking mayor or city commissioner.
That's bribing.
He's not money.
He, he's just a piece of shit.
He's not doing shit.

Sarah (47:19):
Alright, I gotta shake that one off a little bit.

Cole (47:23):
Here's the, here's the thing the cop could have done.
Go up to him during theinterview and just slowly step,
like as you're talking, justwalk a step closer to him.
Close the distance between youtwo, and eventually he's likely,
he'll probably back up as isnatural until he hits a wall or
whatever he can't any further.
Then he'll likely put his handout to stop the cop, his fingers

(47:43):
graze the cop boom.
That's assault on an officer.
It's enough to be arrested for.

Sarah (47:48):
Nice

Cole (47:48):
cops do that shit all the time.

Sarah (47:49):
Yeah, they do.
Yeah.
To can when they know thatsomeone's doing more.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Cole (47:52):
They'll go to a domestic violence situation.
Yeah.
The girl calls.
Then when they get there, she'sbacked up on her story.
So the cop, just wants to getthe assailant out of the house.
Yeah.
But she's gone back on herstory.
What can I do?
Yeah.
Oh, I, I'll get him to assaultme.
All he has to do is touch me.
Yeah.
Not swing on me.
Not spit me.
Just, just lay his hand on me.
Boom.
That's enough.

Sarah (48:10):
Yep.
And they do, a lot of them douse these little techniques in
benefit for the victims.
Like Yeah.
They're like you mentioned not

Cole (48:18):
to

Sarah (48:18):
Yeah.
They, a lot of them are domesticviolence.
Yes.
They're, they're talking to thehusband, wife, the boyfriend,
girlfriend, and they know thatthis girl is terrified of this
man.
Yeah.
And she saying

Cole (48:29):
she's not gonna say it an earshot of her abuser.
Yes.

Sarah (48:30):
But if they can get that man to touch them Yeah.
Then they can put charges onthat man.
Yeah.
And at least get him out of thathouse for a little bit.
They don't her testify.

Cole (48:39):
They can just, we responded to a call and he
touched me.
Boom.
It's me

Sarah (48:42):
against him.
Yeah.
Not her, against him.
It's, yeah.
So there are

Cole (48:45):
creative ways mm-hmm.
To prosecute people

Sarah (48:47):
I wonder if it's just the Sextons were just a family that
no one wanted to deal with.
You know?
Just please go away.
Which is not good.
No.
But

Cole (48:56):
but we did like, I mean, yeah, they were isolationist a
little bit.
Like they kept their kids kidslocked up in the house, but they
They had neighbors.
They did have neighbors.
They went to school.
Mm-hmm.
They were on the record.
This wasn't like some familylike Sony Bean living out in the
sticks, that they were bornwithout birth certificates and
no one knew how many they wereor where they're at.
Like they're on paper.
They have a residence, they'regoing to school.

(49:16):
There's documentation.
Yeah.
There's outside officials aroundtheir children at least all the
time.
Mm-hmm.
Fuck

Sarah (49:24):
yeah.
These kids were failed.

Cole (49:26):
Yeah.

Sarah (49:27):
Everyone around them failed them.

Cole (49:29):
Yeah.

Sarah (49:30):
That's, that's just it.

Cole (49:32):
Yeah.

Sarah (49:33):
Sorry that was a big sidetrack, but Charles is now in
the juvenile detention facility.

Cole (49:39):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (49:40):
He's still, now I don't understand this.
Can a no contact order stillallow, Visitation with, a case
worker or a social worker there?
Yeah.
There,

Cole (49:49):
there can be, the judge can set parameters and say no,
no contact except with, alicensed professional DHS
worker, CPS worker or whatever.
Like a chaperone.
A chaperone, yeah.
Like limited contact in acontrolled setting kind of thing
with a supervisor or achaperone.
Okay.
Yeah,

Sarah (50:04):
because Eddie Lee did visit Charles at the facility,
like appropriately.
Yeah, yeah.
During the visitation, obviouslyhe

Cole (50:11):
can't sneak into a juvenile facility, like go to
school or whatever, but yeah.

Sarah (50:14):
However, though the caseworker that was supposed to
be overseeing it stepped awayfor a second.
Mm-hmm.
But that was enough time forEddie Lee and Charles to plan
and escape.
Eddie Lee told Charles to meethim back behind the church to be
picked up a church that wasnearby.
Yeah.
And later that night, Charleswent back behind the church and
was picked up by his dad and hisbrother Eddie Jr.

(50:36):
Mm.
They then drove Charles toIndiana and dropped him off with
an aunt and uncle on May's side.
Mm.

Cole (50:45):
So kidnapping cross state lines that just went federal.

Sarah (50:47):
Right.
The nothing comes of this

Cole (50:51):
that's federal.
They, it's,

Sarah (50:53):
this is just swept under the rug.

Cole (50:55):
That's one of the principle main crimes that are
federal is kidnapping because itcrosses state lines when it, I
should say, when it crossesstate lines.

Sarah (51:03):
Yep.
Now, by this time, three monthshad passed and in the first
episode I mentioned how theyonly had 30 days.
Mm-hmm.
They've been getting extensions'cause more evidence is coming
out.
Yeah.
So now it's been three monthsand the kids are still spread
out yeah.

Cole (51:17):
All right.

Sarah (51:18):
Alright, now we're gonna jump back to Michelle.
She was getting her stomachpumped at the hospital in Oh
yeah.
April of 1992.
Yeah.
From trying to overdose onpills.
Right.
Overdose on pills, yeah.
Yes.
After her stay at the hospital,she went to her Uncle Otis's
house and eventually she ranaway from there.
There was a fight betweenMichelle and her uncle Otis and

(51:40):
her aunt.
Michelle called her aunt abitch, and Otis hit Michelle
across the face because of that.
Okay.

Cole (51:47):
They're having a family squabble.
She calls her aunt a bitch andhe just reflexively like, yeah,
don't clear her aunt.
That and just,

Sarah (51:52):
right.
Yeah.
Not

Cole (51:53):
justifying it, but no, I see that that's different than
prolonged systemic abuse.
Yes.
He's not like

Sarah (51:57):
an abuser.
He felt bad for doing that.
Like he, he regretted it.
He was like, shit, I, Ishouldn't have done that.
Ugh.
But it did happen.
Yeah.
And it caused her to leave thehouse.

Cole (52:06):
Okay.

Sarah (52:06):
She walked out and she found a local liquor store where
she called her mom, may, toldMichelle everything she wanted
to hear.
May said repeatedly that sheloved her, which Michelle was
not used to hearing.
She said that she left Eddie Leeand that he was gone and that
she could come home and blah,blah, blah, blah.
Michelle agreed.

(52:27):
Mm-hmm.
Said yes.
I'll come home and may calledDHS.
She calls the social worker MelFletcher.
Okay.
He agrees to pick up Michelleand take her home

Cole (52:39):
wait a minute, the abusing mom calls dhs.
Mm-hmm.
And DHS is like, we'll bring himback to the bigger abuser.

Sarah (52:45):
Mm-hmm.
I mean, Eddie Lee supposedly isout of the house.

Cole (52:49):
Yeah.

Sarah (52:50):
But,

Cole (52:50):
but we know he is not.
Exactly.
That's why would he be?

Sarah (52:53):
Well, he's already been showing signs that's already on
record that he's sneaking to seehis kids Why do we believe them?
Why do we believe them?
Yeah.
And Mel Fletcher does catch someshit for this.
Good.
Um, the DHS people were like,what the fuck?
Like, what are you doing?
Yeah.
And he was like, well, she'sover 18.
Like I.
What am I supposed to do?

Cole (53:12):
Well, she's over 18.
Why are you involved at all?

Sarah (53:15):
Exactly.
That was my thought.
Why are you even part of it?
She's not a child.
So why are

Cole (53:18):
you, this is an adult woman calling with her adult mom
having an issue.

Sarah (53:21):
Mm-hmm.

Cole (53:22):
Not my jurisdiction.
You're an adult.
You're not part of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Sarah (53:24):
Stay away.
Why are you handing her over?
Why?
Yeah.
So on the way Mel is driving andMichelle starts to have a really
severe panic attack, but shedoesn't know what it is.
Mm-hmm.
If anyone's ever dealt withanxiety, panic, she thinks she's
having

Cole (53:39):
a heart attack or dying.
She thinks

Sarah (53:40):
she's dying.
Yeah.
And she's acting like she's,yeah.
I mean, and if you, you've seenme have panic attacks.
Mm-hmm.
It looks like I'm dying.
It feels like I'm dying.
Yeah.
You have to just get through it,but if you don't know how to get
through it, it'll get worse.
And this was happening toMichelle in the back of Mel's
car, and when they arrived, MelFletcher was like, we need to
call an ambulance.
And may is calm, barely evengives it a look.

(54:04):
Yeah.
'cause

Cole (54:05):
uh, I'm gonna, gonna limb here that she doesn't give a
shit.

Sarah (54:07):
I actually wrote that her mom don't give a shit.

Cole (54:10):
Yeah.

Sarah (54:11):
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, so Fletcher, MelFletcher was the one that called
the ambulance and had them comeover and Mel's story, he said
that he told the paramedicsdon't release her to her mom,
send her to a group home.

Cole (54:27):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (54:28):
There's no record of that.
So either the paramedics justdidn't listen to him, or Mel
never said that.
Yeah.
I'm thinking Mel never said it.
Yeah.
He seems to be poor judgment guy

Cole (54:36):
here.
Yeah.
And he probably said that afterthey got in trouble pulled
probably, I yelled to theparamedics to do that.

Sarah (54:41):
Yeah.

Cole (54:42):
Well, okay,

Sarah (54:44):
When Michelle was released, her mom was there to
take her home

Cole (54:48):
and that was it.
Her mom is the quintessential,uh, what we would call a
procurer for her husband.
Oh yeah.
To molest kids.
She just produces them literallyin house.
Yeah.
And they're just a bevy, aconveyor belt of kids for him to
molest that is the perfectprocurer for a pedophile.

Sarah (55:05):
Yeah.
So a Fletcher's outta thepicture now, that's his only
thing he does is this, which isnot good.
He

Cole (55:10):
showed up to felch it up.

Sarah (55:12):
He did.
He did on September 1st, 1992, ahandwritten affidavit was sent
to the Jackson Police and theDHS attorneys.
Shelly recanted her statements.
Michelle?

Cole (55:27):
Yeah.

Sarah (55:28):
She was living back home for about a month, and then she
moved in with Pixie and Joel intheir apartment.
Then when she was of no more useto Eddie Lee, Eddie told Pixie
to kick Michelle out and Pixiedid as her father told her to.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle then moved in with afriend from the women's shelter,

(55:49):
may clearly lied, of course,about Eddie Lee being gone.
He was there every night

Cole (55:55):
deep down, he loves me.
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (55:58):
Michelle said that Eddie Lee was the one that wrote the
statement and she just copied itin her handwriting.

Cole (56:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Sarah (56:05):
Turns out that Eddie Lee, he technically wasn't staying in
the house anymore.
He was in an RV camper on theproperty 10 minutes away from
the house.
Okay.
And he would come over everynight?
Yeah.
Though he was over every day.
He just had a place to show themlike, oh, I'm here.
You know?
But he, yeah.
I thought I gonna

Cole (56:20):
say he wasn't in the house.
He was in the shed in thebackyard.
I

Sarah (56:23):
mean, he was like 10 minutes away, but still right
around the corner when Otisfound out about, Eddie Lee being
in the camper, because Mae toldthem that he's gone, because she
wants the kids back in thehouse.
So she's playing the story ofEddie Lee's just gone.

Cole (56:37):
Yeah.
He disappeared one day.

Sarah (56:38):
Yeah.
And Otis is like, uh uh, he'sright here up.
Yeah, there's his little Tobago

Cole (56:42):
right there.

Sarah (56:43):
Hold, yeah.
So Otis calls DHS and they beganchecking in on the house on
Caroline Street a little bitmore.
They never found anythingthough.

Cole (56:51):
Oder should have just propped a chair up against the
outside of that Winnebago doorand firebombed it.

Sarah (56:54):
Yeah.

Cole (56:55):
Would've solved a lot of problems.
Yeah.
He probably wouldn't have gottencharged either.
'cause it's fucking Ohio.

Sarah (56:59):
Yeah.
And

Cole (57:00):
apparently no one in this case gets charged.
So It's weird.
Should've just killed the guy.

Sarah (57:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Why not?
Like,

Cole (57:05):
yeah.

Sarah (57:05):
Well, September 28th, there was yet again another
hearing about custody that Maywas there for and May said that
she was going to therapy andthat her therapist advised that
some of her children come back.
The therapist was not at thishearing, may said, the therapist
said.

Cole (57:23):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (57:24):
Mm-hmm.
And we trust these people.
Well, the judge did.
The judge, Julie Edwards, madepoor choices as well.
So let me say that again.
Julie Edwards.

Cole (57:35):
So this judge allowed hearsay as evidence?

Sarah (57:37):
Yes.
So Julie Edwards, the judge,allowed Chris and Kimberly to
move back home.
Kimberly was eight at the time,and Chris was like 12, 13.
So some of the two youngestones.
Yeah.
Now they haven't said anything.
They're, they're the two thathaven't told any stories.
Mm-hmm.
They're also the younger ones.
And Chris and Kimberly wereconstantly visited by their dad

(58:01):
in secret.
They were terrified.
Yeah.
They couldn't say anything.
He had them.
The judge also awarded custodyof Charles Toay.
Charles, who's 17, and inIndiana,

Cole (58:14):
the one who escaped from the juvenile facility.
Was kidnapped essentially acrossstate lines.

Sarah (58:20):
Yes.
And during no ones, no

Cole (58:21):
ones has a problem with the fact that, hey, you were
supposed to be in essentiallykid jail, but now you're in a
different state.
We can't account for that.
No one's like,

Sarah (58:28):
yeah, I don't understand this.
I don't get it.
Maybe there's pieces I'mmissing.
And honestly, there's so muchinformation.
If anyone out there wants to letme know if I'm missing
something, I will correctmyself.
Like I would love to know thatthey did something here.
But everything I looked at, thisjust went right under the rug.
Charles is in Indiana and thejudge goes, yeah, you can have

(58:49):
Charles back.
And then we are, Charles justappears at the house eventually
like anyway, four days after theruling, the DHS staff who did
not like this ruling, theyapproached the judge with new
information.
They actually spoke with Mace'stherapist and he never
recommended that her kids bereturned.

(59:10):
He actually said she hasn't beento enough sessions for that.
Yeah, he's against it.
So the staff tell the judge thisand the judge is like, it's
fine.
We're not gonna change what Idecided.
It's too by decision stands andshe felt like Eddie Lee's gone.
So it's fine.
Yeah.

Cole (59:29):
But

Sarah (59:30):
when presented with new information, it is okay to
change your mind.
Americans, all of you Americans,if there is new information
presented to you, it is okay tochange your mind.

Cole (59:44):
But I'm dug in and I'll never change, no matter what
facts are presented or theevidence that's laid out before
me.
Yeah.
It's my right as a dumbAmerican.

Sarah (59:52):
Hmm.
Is your name Julie Edwards?
Fucking judge sorry.
There's so many people.
Mel Fletcher.
Yeah.
Julie Edwards.
Fucking a, I mean, Glen Goghdoesn't seem to really believe
Michelle at first, but he stilldid his job.
Yeah.
He was like, well, I still haveto do a due process here.
And then eventually he does.
Yeah.
So he, I think fine.
Otis fine, but like, come on.

Cole (01:00:14):
Yeah.

Sarah (01:00:15):
So one month after Charles was returned home from
Indiana, Lana, who's 12 andstill in foster care,'cause she
is telling her stories, she saidthat her brother Charles raped
her after Lana realizes thatCharles moved back in.
Mm-hmm.
To the home with her littlesister Kimberly.

Cole (01:00:34):
So maybe he should have stayed in the JU juvenile
facility.

Sarah (01:00:37):
Yeah.
So Lana didn't want the samething that happened to her to
happen to her youngest sister

Cole (01:00:44):
maybe we can get one outta the 12 outta there without being
raped.

Sarah (01:00:46):
Yeah.
Lana said that Charles raped herin the bathroom one time at
their family home.
Charles liked to play a gamecalled the Statue of Liberty,
where Charles would stand likethe Statue of Liberty really
still, and then make his sistersperform oral on him.

Cole (01:01:08):
All right.

Sarah (01:01:10):
Yeah.
I don't know how many sistersLana said sisters.
Yeah.
I don't know if, I don't know.
Lana for sure experienced this,she says.
Mm-hmm.
Which I believe mm-hmm.
When Lana was asked about abusefrom her father, she told them
about satanic rituals and voodoodolls.
She mentioned an upside downcross and how her dad would wear

(01:01:32):
a hooded robe, then upside down

Cole (01:01:35):
cross.
Maybe he was just a fan of St.
Peter.

Sarah (01:01:37):
Yeah.
Doubt it.
Then she would just drift offinto that sexton stare.
Yeah.

Cole (01:01:45):
Disassociate.

Sarah (01:01:45):
Yeah.
So she would start telling astory and then kind of float
away.

Cole (01:01:50):
This is the kind of case that is begging not to advocate
vigilantism, but this is thekind of case that just begs for
some citizen just to have enoughof this guy.

Sarah (01:01:57):
Yeah.

Cole (01:01:58):
And just take care of it.

Sarah (01:01:59):
Yeah.
Well, when DHS brought in,brother James, who's 16, brought
him in to take his statement.
James said that Lana told himthat Charles put his penis up
her butt.
Mm-hmm.
When they asked James if Charleshad ever done that to him, he
replied with, yes.

(01:02:21):
James said about two monthsbefore they went into foster
care, Charles asked him to comeupstairs.
Charles then offered James awatch if he would lie down on
the bed and let Charles dosomething to him.
When James laid down, he wastold to take off his pants, and

(01:02:43):
Charles then got on top of hisbrother and raped him.
James said that Charles then didthe same thing to the other
brother Chris, later that night.

Cole (01:02:55):
Okay.

Sarah (01:02:56):
Now finally, with this new information, the judge does
change her decision.

Cole (01:03:04):
Oh, how, how stunning and brave of her.

Sarah (01:03:05):
Yeah.
She gives control of Charlesback to DHS, allowing Charles to
go to his aunt's house in Ohio.
Not a detention facility oranything like that.
We

Cole (01:03:16):
know you escaped jail.
Yeah.
And jumped state lines for that.
But, uh, come back, please.
Yeah.
And we'll just give yousomewhere nice to stay.

Sarah (01:03:25):
The aunt in Ohio is Mae's sister, so he stayed with Mae's
family in Indiana and is nowstaying with Mae's sister in
Ohio.
Why would the judge think that'sokay?, Because you know what?
He does end up back in Indiana.

Cole (01:03:40):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (01:03:40):
And yeah, so he ends up back in Indiana with his aunt
and uncle that he was there withbefore.
When Detective Glen Gogh reachesout to me to interview Charles,
'cause Charles is on his list ofinterviews, she at first said
yes and then he was a no-show.
Detective calls May saying like,what's up?
You said yes to this May.

(01:04:01):
Says, well, we hired an attorneyand the attorney told us that
Charles should not do theinterview.
And she also tells Detective gothat she sent Charles to his
aunt and uncles in Indiana andthat it just didn't work out
with her sister in Ohio.
And that's, that's okay.
Yeah, that's fine.
November 17th, eight days later,I know what other

Cole (01:04:22):
cases are going on that these guys at the time are.
Prosecuting and investigatinglike what other cases are
happening in Canton, Ohio thatare so noteworthy that all their
resources are tied upinvestigating those and not this
massive one.

Sarah (01:04:36):
Yeah, I know,

Cole (01:04:37):
right?

Sarah (01:04:38):
What's happening in Canton, Ohio right now?
Oh, we're

Cole (01:04:40):
really busy doing this thing.
Star County, Ohio.
Yeah.

Sarah (01:04:43):
Listeners, if you're from Stark County, Ohio, let us know
because what the fuck is goingon that this what big case for

Cole (01:04:49):
the seventies, eighties, and nineties took away
attention.
Yeah.
From this case, it must havebeen bigger, is all I can think
of.
It's

Sarah (01:04:55):
gotta be way more better.
The

Cole (01:04:56):
doubt it had to be worse.
Maybe a family of 24 kidsinstead.

Sarah (01:05:00):
Now, November 17th, eight days later, after Detective Glen
go talks to Maye and is like,where's Charles?
All that?
It's eight days later and DHScannot locate Maye or her kids
crazy.
Who could have seen that coming?

Cole (01:05:15):
Yeah.
Uh, everyone.

Sarah (01:05:15):
Yep.
And then the middle school callsDHS and says that Chris has been
absent all week and most of lastweek.
So almost two weeks.
The school and they finallynoticed is just now calling.
Like it's not just police.
It's not, it's everyone.
It's everyone.
It's everyone.
A few days later, the ClevelandChannel five newsroom receives a

(01:05:36):
call from Eddie Lee.
He said he's tired of beingharassed.
He said that the DHS had bogusallegations.
I'm getting these calls and hehas barricaded himself with his
wife and kids in their house onCaroline Street.
This is only a few months afterthe Ruby Ridge stuff.
Oh

Cole (01:05:54):
yeah.

Sarah (01:05:55):
It's like literally a few months later I checked, I double
checked on it.
Mm-hmm.
Because I was like, why is he soamped up here?
Yeah.
In this moment he's really ampedup.
And I'm like, ah,

Cole (01:06:02):
Ruby Ridge.

Sarah (01:06:03):
He wants a Ruby Ridge.

Cole (01:06:04):
Yeah.

Sarah (01:06:05):
That's what he wants.
And it's stupid, but it's whathe wants.
So he said he has everythingboarded up.
He has his wife and kids insideand he told,, channel five, he
said that he has weapons andwould kill any DHS worker or
police officer that pulled upinto his drive.

Cole (01:06:20):
Call me back.
It's a threat back.
Yeah.
Call me back when they show upand you start firing, click.

Sarah (01:06:23):
Yeah.

Cole (01:06:25):
cause you're a liar and I don't think you're gonna do any
of this.
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (01:06:27):
And they also got Charles from Indiana too.
Oh

Cole (01:06:30):
good.

Sarah (01:06:30):
Yeah.
So he's, and again, nothing evercomes of this whole Charles over
the state lines.
It just is nothing.
I don't get it.
So they begin getting ready forthis big standoff.
Eddie Lee and his kids, not thepolice.
Yeah, I mean the police are kindof getting ready, but like a
week leading up to, this is likea, the week leading up to this
phone call.

(01:06:50):
Eddie Lee is getting ready.
He's collecting weapons, gear,chicken wire, tons of food,
propane, all of it.
He's really expensive

Cole (01:06:58):
things that a guy who's never been employed anywhere.
Yeah.
Somehow is able to acquire.

Sarah (01:07:02):
Yeah.

Cole (01:07:02):
Oh, it's, it's the oyster system that seemed to work in
this whole thing is the welfaresystem kept paying him his
fucking checks.

Sarah (01:07:07):
Yeah.

Cole (01:07:07):
But no one else in the government did anything.

Sarah (01:07:09):
Yeah.
He was, collecting money fromhis daughters as well.
Oh, yeah.
Like Sherry and Pixie weregetting money for their kids and
he was getting all the, he wasjust getting everyone's money.

Cole (01:07:19):
Yeah.

Sarah (01:07:20):
I think at one point Sherry and Pixie alone were
bringing in 50 grand if only noteach, but like together 50 grand
from their benefits from thegovernment.

Cole (01:07:28):
Yeah.
The people signing those checkswere his slip shot and their
duties as the judge andeverybody else was Maybe, yeah.
Something would've happenedsooner.

Sarah (01:07:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
If he's not funded, how can hedo, do all this suddenly there's
no money

Cole (01:07:38):
coming into the house.
Yeah.

Sarah (01:07:39):
He's just getting money without working too.
Yeah.
Like he can do all these otherthings like no one checked on
this.
Yeah.
It is a lot harder now.
Yeah.
Things are checked on more now.
It's not this laissez fair.
So no one can get all up inarms.
Government should help theirpeople.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not, I'm by no means anti

Cole (01:07:54):
welfare at all.
I'm not, let me be clear onthat.
But I'm anti obviously thisegregious pieces of shit, just
taking advantage of it and noone, yeah.
There should No way to see this.
Yeah.
Looking at it,

Sarah (01:08:03):
yeah.
Anyway, the house was preppedfor basically a zombie
apocalypse.
Everything was boarded up.
They had shooting positions andthey were ready for a big
standoff.
Now the police knew that EddieLee wanted a big show, given
what had just recently happenedin our country.
The police were like, ah, weknow what you want here, and
we're not gonna fight.

(01:08:23):
Yeah.

Cole (01:08:23):
Don't even, like, he's not even wanted done anything.
Really, really not.
There's only charges.
So like, I'm having a stand upwith cops.
Why we're not coming for you.

Sarah (01:08:30):
Yeah.

Cole (01:08:30):
Like, no.

Sarah (01:08:31):
So the police officers, detectives, whoever called, one
of them called from his ownoffice and another, and others
went to a nearby dairy mart, um,dairy market, and they hung out
there.
There were a few on the scene,but most of them were nearby.
They didn't wanna show Eddiethat he's getting all this.
So they were calling him fromthis dairy mart and also from an
office talking to him on thephone.

(01:08:52):
Yeah.
After three hours of talking,Eddie Lee just willingly came
out of his home and he wasarrested.

Cole (01:09:01):
No shots fired on his part.

Sarah (01:09:03):
Nope.
No shots fired on anyone'sparts.

Cole (01:09:05):
So he was a big pussy.

Sarah (01:09:07):
He was clearly, he's all a

Cole (01:09:08):
chest beating bitch.
I mean, you wanted your fuckinglast stand, Alamo no one stopped
you.

Sarah (01:09:15):
Yeah, he willingly came out.
I don't know what theconversations were.
Three hours of talking, theywore'em down.
I guess

Cole (01:09:22):
three hours isn't even long.
I've been to standoffs that havefucking taken days.

Sarah (01:09:25):
Oh, that's right.
Yeah.
Three

Cole (01:09:26):
hours

Sarah (01:09:27):
for me.
It seems long.
That's a coffee

Cole (01:09:29):
break of a standoff.
Shut the fuck up.

Sarah (01:09:32):
Eddie Lee was only charged for two misdemeanors.
Child endangering and inducingpanic.

Cole (01:09:39):
Okay.

Sarah (01:09:40):
What's inducing panic?

Cole (01:09:41):
It's like exciting, a disturbance.
Disturbing of the piece.
Oh.
Just kind of a, I don't thinkMichigan has that exact phrase,
but every state kind of phrasesis just one of those things.
Causing a you just being a,yeah.
Okay.
Causing a disturbance.
Interrupting the flow of theday.

Sarah (01:09:55):
There was a felony abduction charge that was on him
as well.
Oh,

Cole (01:10:00):
how novel.

Sarah (01:10:00):
But that was dismissed because they couldn't find May
or the kids to testify.
Mm-hmm.
So they're disappeared at thispoint.

Cole (01:10:07):
Okay.
Creatively, they

Sarah (01:10:09):
are gone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So they can't

Cole (01:10:11):
get witness testimony.

Sarah (01:10:12):
Mm-hmm.
Eddie Lee was in jail for threedays before posting the$7,500
bond.
Okay.
Which is$16,871 today.

Cole (01:10:24):
Hmm.

Sarah (01:10:25):
Yeah.

Cole (01:10:25):
No one questioned how he got$7,500.

Sarah (01:10:28):
Are you allowed to question it?
I mean, you can question it, butcan you even do anything as a
No, I mean, if it's, you know,like if they have it, what can
you do?
You know?
Yeah.
Eddie Lee was eventuallysentenced to 180 days in jail.
But also there was somethingwith like a probation thrown in
there.
And he paid some, like a hundreddollars in court fees.
This, this felt, I didn'tunderstand it.

(01:10:51):
Some

Cole (01:10:51):
oftentimes, especially probably back in the nineties
for misdemeanors especially, youknow, you get sentenced to six
months in jail, they mightreplace that with.
Six months of probation if youroffense is low and there's, you
know, jail overcrowding andlet's say you have good behavior
for a month or two, whatever.
So that could be what happened.

(01:11:11):
It could have been a combinationof he served a little bit of
jail and then he did the rest ofit on probation.

Sarah (01:11:16):
Yeah.
There was another hearing set upfor May Sexton, for the custody
of those two remaining children,Chris and Kimberly.

Cole (01:11:25):
But she's in the wind, right?

Sarah (01:11:26):
She's, yeah, but she never showed, none of them
showed.
And, um, turns out Eddie Leetold them to flee the area.
Mm-hmm.
And

Cole (01:11:34):
there's a charge of witness intimidation right
there.

Sarah (01:11:36):
Yep.
While May was missing duringthis time, she was really
staying with her oldest son.
Well, her second oldest son,Eddie, Jr.
At his house and then she endedup staying with their neighbor,
a Augusta Townsend who is ablack woman.

Cole (01:11:53):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (01:11:54):
Why would Eddie Lee and his family want help from a
black woman?
Because like races when they'reopenly racist.
Well, you know, like, I mean shewas, even the reasons you hate,

Cole (01:12:02):
they can, you know, they can have a use for you.
Yeah.
Inti in certain times.

Sarah (01:12:05):
Yeah.
I found that interesting.
They found shelter, hey, withtheir black neighbor.
Yeah.

Cole (01:12:10):
Every slave owner was a racist, but yet they still use
the slaves.

Sarah (01:12:13):
Yeah.
Anyway, just found thatinteresting.
So then May and the kids werestaying with Augusta Townsend
and Eddie Lee eventually caughtup with them and they all were
staying with this neighbor.
They stayed with her for abouttwo weeks now.
I don't think she really knewwhat was going on.
Yeah.
She was just trying to help out.
But she did say that she noticedsome, oddities of the Sexton

(01:12:35):
family when they were stayingwith her.
She said that she had, the boys,Chris, Charles and Willie sleep
in the living room at night.
And one time Augusta came out ofher room to get a drink of water
and she saw May performing oralon her son Chris, while Charles
watched.

(01:12:57):
Then Augusta said she didn'treally know what to do, so she
went back into her bedroom andthen she began dropping major
hints that she knew that theywere weird and she needed them
to leave.

Cole (01:13:06):
How major?
Like, hey, I saw mom blowing thesun.
Well, I mean, that's a prettymajor hint.
She's

Sarah (01:13:11):
outnumbered by them quite a bit and they have teenage sons
and

Cole (01:13:15):
Yeah, true.

Sarah (01:13:16):
Willie, the son, Willie is described as like, he's also,
um, slower mentally.
Mm-hmm.
But he is strong and big.
Who is it?
Like Lenny?
Yeah, from the book of mice andmen of Mice and Men.
Yeah, like that.

Cole (01:13:30):
Okay.
So

Sarah (01:13:30):
he's an intimidating, just him alone.
And then you have Eddie Lee, andthen you have Charles.
I don't blame her, but she didvery much passive, aggressively
push them out.
Eddie Lee, left to go get the RVcamper and then he came back
with it and before leaving, heleft Augusta a little.
I don't know, memento, he leftbehind a bullet standing on her

(01:13:52):
kitchen counter.
Hmm.
As a warning, a threat.
Yeah.
Alright, so now we're gonna jumpback to Pixie and Joel real
quick.
Joel's Aunt Theresa couldn'tfind Joel again and eventually
she did go to the house onCaroline Street to, to just bang
on that door and be like, whereis my nephew?
Pixie and Joel both answered thedoor and they tell her that

(01:14:14):
Eddie Lee left Pixie the houseand that the rest of the family
moved away they did not tellAunt Teresa that Pixie was
pregnant again.
Joel and Pixie had their baby inJanuary of 1993.

Cole (01:14:29):
Is this Joel's baby?

Sarah (01:14:31):
I don't think so.

Cole (01:14:32):
Okay.

Sarah (01:14:34):
They named their son Charles, nicknamed Skipper Lee
Sexton.
So after her brother and herdad.
Yes.

Cole (01:14:43):
Well, he's probably his own cousin, isn't he?
Yeah.
I dunno.
It's his own something.

Sarah (01:14:47):
Yeah.
I don't know.
Joel and Pixie visited his AuntTheresa and said that they were
moving out of their house onCaroline Street.
They were looking to move backinto that same apartment they
had before, joel gave his AuntTheresa a hug goodbye and said,
I love you.
And then a quick visit to hisgrandparents to show off the new
baby.
Looking back on it, Theresa waskind of like, I think he was

(01:15:09):
saying goodbye to us.

Cole (01:15:11):
Mm.

Sarah (01:15:12):
By February of 1993.
So this was January where hevisits his aunts.
Yeah.
Next

Cole (01:15:17):
month.

Sarah (01:15:17):
Next month, Joel and Pixie were reunited with the
rest of the sextons, and theyalso brought their three kids.
So there are family of fivejoining in on this RV adventure.
The Sextons would start out inIndiana with their life on the
run.
They, would travel from Oklahomato Indiana because Eddie Lee was

(01:15:38):
determined to prove that he'sNative American.
'cause he thought he would havea better standing in the courts
or something.
Oh.
But

Cole (01:15:43):
he's racist.

Sarah (01:15:44):
He's he's not Native American either.
Yeah.
And he's racist.
Of course.
Yeah.
So he is not, he just keepsclaiming that in the background
as well.
He wants this fantasy that hedoesn't have.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, eddie Lee had the boystraining military style.
They were gathering weaponsconstantly going to the army
surplus store for supplies.
Mm-hmm.
He's getting them all paranoidand riled up.

(01:16:05):
When Pixie and Joel arrived inFebruary, things got crowded
pretty quickly and tensions wererising.
The boys in the RV were gettingincreasingly grossed out by
their father and their sisters'relationships.
Charles said that Eddie wouldplay this game with all the
girls, where he would put apiece of chocolate in between

(01:16:25):
his lips and they would transferthe chocolate lip to lip.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Also, once Pixie arrived,tensions rose between May and
Eddie Lee.
Eddie Lee became meaner to Mayand may always acted jealous of
Pixie,

Cole (01:16:40):
fuck me.

Sarah (01:16:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Cole (01:16:44):
I don't give a shit if she like, fuck her.

Sarah (01:16:46):
Yeah.
Joel's time with the sextons,was the worst.
They never treated him verywell, and during this time it
was even worse.
He was constantly the butt ofthe jokes.
He was the literal punching bagfor the family, and Eddie Lee
viewed him as one of the womenalways tending to the kids as if
that was a bad thing.

(01:17:06):
Joel was a good dad and he lovedall of pixie kids like his own.
He said that was his family andthose were his kids.
Mm-hmm.
He endured a lot of beatings.
Whenever Eddie Lee wasn'taround, the siblings would
strike.
As the sex Sexton family isprepping and getting ready in
Indiana, there's anotherdetective that comes onto the
scene.
Steve Rey.

(01:17:28):
He's trying to locate them, but.
He doesn't really know where togo and at this point, the excuse
for Steve Reedy is there's notmuch legal going on because they
can't prove that Eddie Lee andMay are together.
Yeah.
So they don't know what to dohere on a legal standpoint.
May did have custody of all thekids that were with her, so she

(01:17:48):
wasn't doing anything wrongtechnically.
Charles turned 18 by now, so hecan do whatever he wants, I
guess, even though there'saccusations of rape against him,
sounds like he was

Cole (01:17:59):
doing whatever he wanted for his entire life.
Yeah.

Sarah (01:18:00):
I don't know why no one's looking for him.
He did bad things too.

Cole (01:18:03):
Let's learned behavior.
Yeah.
I don't

Sarah (01:18:05):
blame him, but they should take him, you know?
Yeah.
It's, it's a reason to, to startremoving at least.
Yeah.
And start the healing process ifthere's ever a healing process
after this.
Yeah.
There's probably not.
Yeah.
Um.
So the only thing that could bedone was for DHS to put out a
protective services alert.

(01:18:26):
It goes out to policedepartments in nearby states,
but those just really aren'ttaken as priority normally.
In the month of May, the DHSlegal team tried getting
permanent custody of all of thesexton minors.
They were like, listen, if wehave custody of them, we can say
they're missing.
Yeah.
Let's look for them

Cole (01:18:45):
filing an race against the clock to get a minor out before
they've aged out of it.
Yeah.
Finally.
Yeah.
We gotta get these miners outbefore they stop being miners.
We've only had a decade and ahalf to fucking work on this.

Sarah (01:18:55):
Yep.

Cole (01:18:55):
We started this.
There's only six kids now.
There's a fucking, they'vemultiplied like amoebas.

Sarah (01:19:00):
Yep.
They decide to put the notice ofthe custody hearing in the paper
hoping that this would make thesexton surface.

Cole (01:19:08):
Yeah.
'cause they can read it.

Sarah (01:19:10):
It worked.
They surfaced but they didn'tget them.

Cole (01:19:12):
Yeah.

Sarah (01:19:12):
Four days after the notice was in the paper, Matt
Sexton went missing from hisfoster home.
So it did the exact opposite.

Cole (01:19:20):
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (01:19:20):
Why?
If they're gonna put this up aslike a trap, why wouldn't they
have more observation on thekids that they still have
custody over?
Yeah.
Like how did Matt just gettaken?

Cole (01:19:28):
Probably just short of manpower.

Sarah (01:19:30):
Yeah.
The Sexton family they did tryto get Lana from her foster home
when they got Matt as well, butit didn't work.
Charles visited her at theschool and told her to stay
there for Eddie Lee to come pickher up.
And she told her foster parents,she was like, fuck this.
Lana was having a really hardtime.

(01:19:51):
She was one of Eddie Lee'sfavorites.
Mm-hmm.
And that comes with a price.
Um, yeah.
Lana's got a big story, so we'regonna end there.
Okay.
The family, they're startingtheir life on the run now.
They're currently in Indiana,but after this it gets even more
convoluted and difficult to keeptrack of.

Cole (01:20:13):
Oh, good.

Sarah (01:20:13):
They do end up in Florida, hopping around.
Of course, they end up inFlorida.
Every,

Cole (01:20:17):
all trash floats downstream.

Sarah (01:20:20):
Yes.
So things do get more intensefrom here.
We heard most of the stories,but there are more stories and
there's one in particular thatis worse and in my opinion, than
what I've heard.
Uh, actually, shit, there's afew.
Oh God,

Cole (01:20:35):
here's how I want this to end.
I want all the kids to tearapart their parents by the limbs
and like as you raise the point,you raise, we outnumber them.
We are physically bigger andable to handle ourselves.
Now why don't we kill them andbe the new kings of this king
and queen of this cult?

Sarah (01:20:50):
It's that culty side of it.
That's the culty side of it.
Yeah.
Is like, why didn't they domore?
Yeah, they're raised in this.
Yeah.
And they are.
It's, it's one of the, I think,I think it was Wayne Welsh, um,
one of the DHS workers commentedon the side of like, I've worked
with like cult people before.
And this feels very similar tothat.
Yeah.
So, yeah.

(01:21:10):
Um, we will have our third partup.
I'm gonna be done after three.
I can't do more than threeparts.
I am dying here, so.
Yeah.
While you're waiting for thethird part of this awful sext
and saga, you can follow us onInstagram mm-hmm.
At borrowed Bones podcast.
If you want, you can stillfollow us on Blue Sky.

Cole (01:21:30):
Yeah, that's still a thing.

Sarah (01:21:31):
I'm still gonna keep it, but I know it's a little rough
right now, but we're gonna tryand make it better.
But yes, borrowed Bones podcaston Blue Sky and on Instagram.
Thank you.
Also, remember to rate andreview helps a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Bye.
See you next time.
Bye.