The Yates Family

Andrea Yates' story isn't just about a mother who killed her children—it's about mental healthcare failures, religious extremism, and societal pressure on mothers. What can we learn 20+ years later?

Sources: 

Yates Family Memorial Site, Biography.com, Time.com, NYPost.com, PsychiatryOnline.org, NYPost.com, CNN.com, Psychiatry.com

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
hello everyone hello people I'm sarah and I'm cole
and you're listening to borrowedbones, a podcast about fucked
up, interesting and toxicfamilies yes, it's our bread and
butter yes, last episode was anice one yeah, it was a change
of pace.
Yes, the lovely twinings.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
No blood and guts or gore.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
No.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
No sexual assaults or bodies in basements or anything
.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
I'm still waiting, but as of yet no, I don't know
of anything yet Knock on wood.
Yeah, today is not a nice one.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Oh good, Back to the nitty gritty.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yes, today we are talking about the Yates family,
yates or Andrea Yatesspecifically.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Know the name, but I can't place it.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
There's probably a few people that know exactly
what I'm talking about.
This happened in 2001.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
It is one that involves children.
So here's your trigger.
Right now, it's about Andreakilling her children.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh, her own children, mm-hmm.
Yes, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
This one I really wanted to do because there's a
lot of talk around it.
I'm surprised that you don'tremember it at all.
Really Like nothing rings abell.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Nope.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
She's not the woman that drove her sons into the
lake.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, because I know that one that was in the 90s.
That was Susan Smith, I thinkwas her name.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
I don't know for sure Okay.
You have to look it up now.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yeah, it was Susan Smith, I was thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay 94.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
She drove a car into a lake or a river or something
with her two sons.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
I remember hearing about a woman doing that.
Yeah, but then she famouslySouth Carolina.
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
And then for like a week she famously claimed that
her kids were like abducted,like she was carjacked or
something oh shit.
So you know, she was in frontof the cameras, her and her
husband.
Her husband was not involved,was not with her and was like
please, whoever abducted oursons?
And then they found the car andshe confessed she's still in
prison, Okay, Wow.
Well we won't do that one.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
We just did a quick one.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, quick one right there.
Bonus just did a quick one.
Yeah, quick one bonus episoderight in it.
Yeah, give a frame narrative.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah anyway, I decided to do andrea yates and
the yates family because of allof the talk surrounding it and
also a lot of podcasters or truecrime youtubers, whoever.
I've seen and heard a lot ofthem reference andrea y but say

(02:46):
it's too difficult for them tocover.
I'm going to give it a try.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh, cause they're parents.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
I do think it's because they're parents yes, and
I think I know that you rollyour eyes at it cause they chose
to be parents and all that.
Like I get that point?
I don't know, I understand.
I guess, maybe because I was ananny, I do think of those
children in my mind, I think ofall the kids in my life, even
though I'm not a mom.
But I think I was able tohandle it better because I do

(03:14):
have that separation of nothaving given birth.
Yeah, I don't want to.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
You won't with me.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
No, okay, let's start in the beginning.
Andrea Yates was born AndreaKennedy.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Wow, is she?
No, not oh.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
She's not, not the.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Royal Kennedys no, oh , I was like God damn Everyone
in that family.
Something goes wrong with theirheads.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Andrea Kennedy was born July 2nd 1964 in Houston,
texas.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Oh, happy belated, birthday.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, she was a good kid, great student.
She graduated high school asclass valedictorian.
Oh, what town was this in Texas, Houston.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Texas, so that's got to be, I'm assuming, public
school, so that's valedictorianin a major city's high school is
more impressive than being thevaledictorian of like a you know
, school.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
I went to a hundred students, so Were there a
hundred students in yourgraduating class About that,
okay.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Roughly 400 in the school 100 per class.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Oh, that's cute.
Yeah, little Midwest boy.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, I'm saying she's obviously more impressive,
yeah, at that age.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yes, so Andrea graduated class valedictorian
and she also loved to swim andwas very good at it.
Okay, as soon as she was oldenough, andrea got a job at the
Jack in the Box At Jack in theBox.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Oh, the fast food.
Yeah, you don't know what thatis, do you?

Speaker 1 (04:40):
I had to reference.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
California movies to be like the what.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
There's not Jack in the Box in Michigan.
If there is, it's not popular.
No, I've never seen one.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
I've never seen one in real life, Except have we
seen any in Albuquerque?
Are they California only?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
No, we had them in Texas.
Okay, yeah, houston.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
I've definitely never seen them anywhere on the East
Coast or in the Midwest.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Some fast food place.
We saw in Albuquerque that youwere like oh, look at that.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Whataburger.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Whataburger, that's it.
Yeah, we don't have those.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Whataburger.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Anyway, yes.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Back on track.
Stop delaying the inevitable.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Dinner is next on our list today.
You can tell we're hungry.
Anyway, Andrea's parentsexpected her to get good grades
and they wanted all of theirchildren to be well-rounded.
They wanted them all to havejobs.
They kind of had a strictupbringing.
Andrea also very much wanted toplease her parents.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
It was back and forth , hence the valedictorian and
getting a job right away.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
You don't become a valedictorian, not being an
overachiever Right Whenever Imean, you always make like she
was.
They were pushed, yes.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
You're a stereotype who's trying to get your
parents' praise.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
That's what you are as a valedictorian.
That's exactly what she was,Even though she did well in
school and had good grades.
One of Andrea's high schoolfriends named Marlene said that
Andrea would not let people getclose.
She was prickly.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Just kind of kept her distance a little bit.
Marlene was pretty much theonly close friend she had.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, she's into books and that's pretty much it.
No social life.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, not too much outside of her own activities
and scheduled things.
Yeah, she's not even interestedin it.
She seems to be like, not that,she's like an outcast.
She's kind of inself-excitement, yeah, now in
1989, andrea is about 26 yearsold, 25, 26.
And she was living in anapartment complex still in

(06:37):
Houston Texas.
This is where she will meet herneighbor and future husband,
russell, who goes by Rusty Yates.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Rusty.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yates, and he's a year younger than her, so he's
around 24, 25, all right theattraction was mutual, hopefully
.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Rusty noticed a husband that wasn't attracted to
you.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Well, they both like noticed each other separately.
Yeah, rusty noticed andreawhile she would be sunbathing in
the apartment pool.
It's miss.
Yes, she would swim a lot.
She loved to swim and henoticed her swimming quite a bit
Later he would discover which Ithought was an interesting
little fact about Andrea thatshe was a champion swimmer and
once she swam around an islandin Mexico.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, I just thought that was an interesting fact.
Not a lot of people can saythat that's pretty cool, True,
Now?
Rusty said in an interview withTime later on, after everything
happened that quote she was aperson who was more graceful in
the water than out of it.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Ah, Aquaman.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yes, Namorita.
Yes.
One Monday, still in 1989,Andrea knocked on Rusty's door.
This is how they meet.
Andrea asked him if he knew whodinged her car.
He said he didn't know.
But that got them talking.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
No one dinged anyone's car no.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Later on in their relationship she confessed that
that was just an excuse to meetRusty.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
That's where the lies began.
Yeah, yes, a relationship wherethe lies began.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, yes.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
A relationship founded on a lie.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yes.
Andrea then left and she wentto go grab some food.
She sat outside by the waterwhile she was eating and she was
thinking of Rusty.
Unable to get him off her mind,she returned to her apartment
complex and left a note onRusty's car windshield.
The note read I was thinkingyou could come by sometime

(08:33):
tonight.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Oh, sometime tonight.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, very forward.
Yeah, it was Monday nightfootball, but Rusty felt like,
ah, I can give this up for onenight and I'll go over.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Giving up Hank Williams Jr's Monday Night
Football theme?
I don't know.
Come on, everyone knows thatsong.
It was the trademark MondayNight Football song, Hank
Williams Jr.
I'm not singing it, so don'tlook at me like I'm going to.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Okay, moving on.
While Andrea and Rusty weredating, Andrea was a post-op
nurse.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Oh, mm-hmm, human doctor.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, veterinarian.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Okay, yeah, I'm going to start doing that whenever
someone mentions anythingmedical, I'm like human or
animal.
It's weird how everyone looksat you like are you crazy?
Just asking that simplequestion straight-faced.
So do that.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Anyway, rusty designed computer systems for
NASA.
He was a.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
NASA, engineer.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
He still is a NASA engineer.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, andrea and Rusty spent a few years getting
to know each other, dating,moving in together and
eventually marriage.
They had a modest wedding in1993.
Okay, and Andrea quickly tookherself modest wedding in 1993.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
And Andrea quickly took herself off of birth
control.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
They both wanted as many kids as possible.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Rusty was a disciple of Michael Warniecki.
I didn't care to look up thepronunciation.
It looks Polish to me.
He's from Michigan and I'mpretty sure I'm pronouncing it
correctly.
I mean, I'll tell you Okay,W-O-R-O-N, as in Nancy,

(10:17):
I-E-C-K-I.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, your guess is as good as mine.
It might not be that becauseit's polish, but yeah, who knows
?

Speaker 1 (10:27):
warnecky or something warnecky yeah but I think
warnecky yeah I don't reallycare because he's one of those
really eccentric out therepreachers that would go to
college campuses and like yellat people oh, like he's an
evangelist, yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, is he like fire and brimstone?
Old school religion kind ofOkay.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Need to get you some Jesus.
Yeah, so I don't respect him.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Okay, flat out, he's one of those non-denominational,
he's his own.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
He doesn't like organized religion, but he's
non-denominational is what?

Speaker 2 (10:54):
he claims.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
That's what he claims .
I'm not saying this is hownon-denominational churches.
This is not the same.
He's his own person.
He claims non-denominational,but he also dislikes organized
religion and he travels aroundand preaches Circuit riding
preacher.
Yes, rusty followed him throughphone calls, videos, things

(11:16):
like that, but I don't know ifthey're personal videos that he
purchased or sent out or if theywere like on TV.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Either way, he followed him.
He's obviously an likeclassically intelligent man if
he's working as an engineer forfucking nasa rusty kept him at
arm's length.
He didn't get too into him,yeah I guess I'm still like I'm
always fascinated by any likethese hardcore scientists who
are still into any supernaturalmysticism.

(11:46):
Woo-woo-ness, I'm like what?

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, especially the American Christian woo-woo.
It's so blatantly wrong andeats its own tail so quickly.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
You're looking at space and getting to.
This is what you're at, yeah.
Yeah, anyway, the theory ofrelativity is like your freaking
basis for everything.
The lens and you're he.
He breaks out.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
He, he, yeah, yeah, I think he learns.
But yes, I had a similar rantin my own head and I didn't want
to get too invested into thismichael preacher person, because
you can see already we'reranting.
Yeah, anyway, the warneckies.
They did believe that couplesshould have as many babies as
possible.

(12:29):
That is god's way.
The preacher also chastised thecouple, saying that they were
doomed to hell if they were notliving the right way.
Yeah, we're starting with somedoom and gloom, fire and
brimstone everything you weresaying.
Within three months of marriage, andrea was pregnant.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Throughout her pregnancy she maintained her
nursing job, but once her babyboy Noah was born, she became a
stay-at-home mom.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Noah was born February of 1994.
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
I would have been turning nine in february of 94,
oh wow, yeah, I won't say howold I would have been in 94 was
also the same year that susansmith would kill her two sons oh
, look at the venn diagramcrossover 94 is the look, this
is the locus point she's thebackground character, isn't she
or that?
that's the side story of allthis.
Okay, so I gave you noah'sbirth, february of 94.

(13:32):
I'm gonna do the rest of thechildren right now, because
throughout the story it's theymove and do things I'm just
gonna get it all out yes, justlike she did um, sorry, okay.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Noah.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
February of 1994.
He's the oldest.
Then we have John, born inDecember of 96.
And then we have an Irish twinsituation here where Paul is
born in fall like September of97.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
I didn't get all of their birthdates confirmed, even
though I looked them up.
The website that their dad madedoesn't have two of their
actual birth dates, but Ifigured out their ages.
Luke was born, I believe,February of 99.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Because I read that Paul was 17 months old when Luke
was born, so that matchescorrectly, and then Mary was
born in November of the year2000.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Okay, so there's five total.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Five total Four boys, one girl girls at the bottom
Yep, all right, and they're, soI can remember them all Noah,
John, Paul, Luke, Mary.
Yes, correct.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Shortly after Noah's birth, andrea had a vision.
In this vision was an image ofa knife.
The knife crossed her mind verybriefly and then there was a
scene of someone being stabbed,and then the vision vanished as
quickly as it came.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
She's awake, not a dream.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Right, okay, like a hallucination.
Yeah, rusty never knew aboutthis until after Andrea's arrest
.
She never told him about it.
In 1995, andrea was pregnantagain with John.
She gave up jogging andswimming, exercising.
She was seeing her friends lessand less.
This was even after she hadJohn.

(15:24):
Throughout their relationship,rusty always respected andrea's
privacy.
She was always a bit secretive,like I mentioned, and even in
her high school years yeah,standoffish and rusty never
probed.
I think rusty just figured, ifshe had something to say she
would say say it.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
But she never did he did mention in an interview as
well later on that he respectedher obsession, he said, with
changing her clothes in thecloset out of sight.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
You mean like she?
Would you mean like she wouldchange clothes on her body or
she would rearrange the clothes?
No, she would change heroutfits like herself, like her
body, and she would go into thecloset to do it.
Though, to change, yeah, out ofsight Out of sight Okay.
That's something that she didwhen she met Rusty, but that is
a sign of something.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Why did he leave the room?

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Like trauma an issue, like if I was in a room with
you and you were changing andyou like went into the closet,
I'd be like I'll just I canleave the room and you don't
have to do that.
Right, but this is also someonethat she shares a bed with and
he probably did start leavingthe room.
He said he respected it.
He probably did do things youknow but what I'm saying is
what's up that there's somethingbigger happening here, that's

(16:42):
all I'm saying.
Rusty offered to reduce hishours at work, allowing her to
go back to nursing part-time ifshe wanted to maybe get out of
the house, or he was fine withher just seeing her friends more
doing her hobbies anythingsupportive.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
He's not forcing her to be this stay-at-home
broodmare.
He's no, but go have a life.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Most of this is from his word, though, like a lot of
this, is from interviews thathe's in.
I do.
I do think he's supportive, butthere are some people that are
sprinkled in here that are kindof like he's a little
controlling, he's a little weird.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
OK.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
So I think there's honestly, I think the religious
side of things is where thecontrolling comes in.
I think he is a good person,but the religion muddied it up
for him.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, is what I think religion muddied it up for him.
Yeah is what I think it's easyto say to your wife I want you
to go out and have a social lifeand do all these things, while
you keep giving her babies,exactly like you know have fun,
go out with the girls.
Um, there's four kids to sitaround with like yeah, and it
was the 90s early odds.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Still very classic, not necessarily armchair dad,
but still yeah, like we reallydidn't start seeing dads being
involved until us millennialsstarted having kids.
According to rusty, though,even after he offered all of
this to her which this might betrue, who knows she just said
I'm a mother now oh and that wasit one of the tones she said

(18:04):
exactly she's saying like, likeI'm a mother now.
Oh, and that was it one of thetones she said exactly.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
She's saying like, like I'm a mother now, like you,
like I gave that up also is itlike?
Also is there, is there a toneof like us, like me against you,
or yeah you did this to me.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Right is a resentment of exactly I'm a mother now,
thanks to you yeah, and he mightnot realize what that tone is,
because in his head this is whatlife is right.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
This is how he was raised too.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
This is fine.
So I don't think that's what Imean by like I don't think he
knew.
I think today he does, but Idon't think, then he did.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
I hope so by now.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yes, now, yes, in 1996 rusty took the opportunity
to be a part of a six-month nasarelated project in florida.
So for six months they got togo to florida.
He drove his family down toflorida in like an rv trailer.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
yes, all right, I pictured him going and leaving
her alone with the kids.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Okay, Nope, Right now we have Andrea, Rusty, Noah and
John.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Going to Florida living like an RV trailer
situation.
For six months.
They leased out their house,did a quick garage sale to kind
of unload things.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Don't come.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
And in November of 1996 is when they went is when
they went.
While Rusty was working, everyday Andrea would take Noah and
John to the beach, the park andthe children's museum.
She was doing good things beingan interactive mom.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
She's out, just staying at home.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
The couple enjoyed showing their sons the value in
books, art and sports.
Andrea taught them how to shuckcorn and snap green beans.
Like she was involved.
While in Florida, andrea becamepregnant twice.
The first pregnancy ended in amiscarriage, but they conceived

(19:56):
again while still in Florida andthey were only in Florida for
six months.
They got no extension.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah.
And Andrea jokingly calledherself Fertile, myrtle, fertile
myrtle, myrtle just a name,fertile myrtle like I was like,
but myrtle beach isn't inflorida, oh right no, I'm just
like oh, she's a fertile myrtleover there.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Look at her popping out babies and getting pregnant
left and right.
Yeah, when they went back to toTexas, they did not go back to
their suburban lifestyle.
They got rid of the house andthey're now living at the Lazy
Days RV campground near a dogtrack in Hitchcock, texas, in
their RV trailer.
Yes, so they're doing like thevan life kind of before.

(20:43):
It's cool they're choosing todo this because Rusty has a good
job.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
The house they can keep, but they wanted to live
van life.
Essentially we're jumpingforward a little bit to 1998.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Now they have three sons.
Paul was born in September of97.
Rusty receives a letter fromthe preacher Michael.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh God.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
What's the charlatan?

Speaker 2 (21:09):
one.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
The preacher was selling his motor home.
It was a converted 1978 GMC bus.
Very, very van life.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, those might have been like the touring rock
star buses.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Those are the sweet, those are the.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, it sounds pretty cool honestly, palaces of
the road.
Andrea preferred the bus overthe trailer, so Rusty bought it.
Yeah, of course arrival.

(21:47):
He's still a little baby.
Noah and john slept in the holewhich was a luggage compartment
accessible from the cabinthrough like a trap door.
Yeah, I didn't look at any.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
I didn't see any photos, but yeah, I'm just weird
.
Whenever you say where yourkids are, they sleep in the hole
yeah, yeah, it's weird, that'swhat they called it just, even
if it's fine, I'm sure it wasfine in some weird way, but like
don't call it the hole yeah,now the yates family is growing.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
We're in the year 1999.
Baby luke, the fourth child,was born earlier in the year.
Now andrea is caring for all ofthese children, as well as
helping her mother take care ofher ailing father who had
Alzheimer's.
Yeah, so all of that'shappening.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
That sucks.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Andrea rarely brought people over to their home the
bus.
She always offered to go tothem with the children for
playdates and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Bring your brood along.
No thanks, Keep them over there.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Her family and friends.
They kind of had a hint thatshe didn't really enjoy the van
life as much as Rusty did.
He got to leave every day andgo to work.
Right, he got to be in the ACand use a real bathroom.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
She could drive it to work.
She could drive the home to him.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah, in 1999, still in this year, after the family
took the bus to the Grand Canyon, andrea seemed tired and
preoccupied.
While on the drive home, rustythought she was just recovering
from the flu, but then shedipped into a very deep
depression.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
You don't even have a daughter yet, right?
Nope, so four boys well, maybeif they get back to banging
it'll cure her depression.
I know you're sad, but let'sget on to it.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Babies ain't gonna make themselves in june 16th
1999, andrea was crying verybadly and she called rusty while
he was at work and said he hadto come home.
When he he came home, he foundher in the back of the bus and
she was slumped over in a chair,biting at her fingers.
Her legs were shakinguncontrollably.

(23:51):
She just was having a breakdown.
Rusty packed everyone up anddrove to Galveston, texas, which
isn't far from where they are,and his thought was to be near
the water.
She always felt good near thewater, so he walked her along
the shoreline trying to calm herdown, and it didn't work.
After walking near the waterdidn't work, he took everyone to

(24:14):
Andrea's parents' house andthey stayed there for a little
while.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
The following day, rusty leaves to run some errands
and Andrea tells her mom thatshe's going to go take a nap.
Andrea then proceeds to take atleast 40 of her mom's
antidepressant pills that shehas to help her sleep.
Andrea's mom walks in and findsAndrea lying unconscious on the

(24:41):
bed, and then she sees theempty pill bottle.
She calls 911 and an ambulancearrives, and then Rusty comes
home right bottle.
She calls 9-1-1 and anambulance arrives, and then
rusty comes home right afterthat he just happens to be right
there.
andrea's sons were sobbing asandrea was taken away on the
stretcher and while at thehospital, andrea told the
medical staff that she took thepill so she could sleep forever.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she wanted todie.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
She was almost there.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, that was her first suicide attempt.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, that we know of .

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Exactly, yeah, that we know of.
Yeah, she also said that shefelt guilty for attempting
suicide when she was speaking tothe nurse.
She said I have my family tolive for, so I don't know.
She wanted to die and then shesurvived and was like, ah, what
am I?

Speaker 2 (25:26):
doing it was cognitive dissonance.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, June 20th of 1999, she's still in the
hospital.
Andrea begins to isolateherself.
She was no longer going togroup therapy not as much anyway
and she would retreat to herhospital room where she would
turn the lights out, pull thesheets up over her head and just

(25:48):
like sit there.
Yeah, the hospital psychiatristsaid she was purposefully vague
about things.
She would just say stuff like Iguess there's been some turmoil
, it's just like that's it.
The hospital social I'm lookingat her more and more I know I
mean, yes, we'll, we'll gothrough this, but yeah, she's

(26:09):
she's becoming more sympathetic.
She's a sympathetic characteryes, her children deserve to be
alive, a hundred percent.
I've sympathized, empathizewith the children and they
should be here.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
But to be killed later on by something else.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah right.
The hospital social worker saidAndrea would discuss her own
childhood but would deflectquestions about Andrea's
children.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
What is there to answer about your kids?
They're fucking kids.
They don't have any personality.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
A seven-year-old does .
Well, I guess Noah's probablylike five at this point, yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Every parent who talks to them talks.
They all say the same thingsbecause there's nothing unique
about their kids.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yet there was one, there was one parent, and I will
not say who this is but theywere the first and only parent
to be like I think my kid's kindof ugly and they're not that
great at things, they're prettyaverage, but I love them anyway
and I was like respect a hardrespect the fact that you won't
say it means you probably knowwho it is, which I like that
you're not saying, because noweveryone that we know who's a

(27:09):
parent is thinking it might bethem and it was just one of the
parents, and they're married,nice, and they only said about
one of their children as well,they've got multiple kids.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
They're like I don't know this one kid of of mine.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
It's not going to break any hearts.
Yeah, it's not going to winfirst prize anyway, anyway,
moving on, moving on, when thesocial worker asked Andrea about
her strengths, Andrea pausedand then said Breeding.
I can't think of any right now,and that was it.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, I like that she's not playing the
therapist's game.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
No, she's just no.
I don't know nothing, I'm notgood at anything, I don't give a
shit.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Rusty felt that Andrea lost her identity.
That's what he told the socialworker anyway.
He said that she relied mostlyon him for any decision making
and that she only focused on thechildren.
She just lost herself and thekids, which does happen a lot
with mothers, mothersspecifically, because obviously
they're the ones left with thechildren.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
What else are you supposed to do when you've got
four eaters around you?

Speaker 1 (28:20):
They're all under the age of going to school.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
What are you supposed to do with that many and you're
alone.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Even when I was a nanny.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
I would get lonely.
What other interests are yousupposed to have?

Speaker 1 (28:30):
I would like plan with the parents.
Like all right, we have to getout of the house during these
uncertain days.
Like I need to get out of thehouse and engage with other
people because it is very lonelybeing with toddlers all day and
no one else around.
Very lonely, With toddlers allday and no one else around.
Very lonely.
Rusty did admit to the hospitalstaff that he could have
treated his wife with a littlemore respect.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah, rusty.
Then went on to say that Andreamay be struggling with the
concept of salvation.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
There it is, mm-hmm, oh Jesus.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Oh Lord, there it is.
Oh jesus, oh lord.
The social worker also notedthat the patient's husband might
be a little bit controlling iswhat was written in the notes.
Rusty was insistent that hiswife's postpartum depression was
only temporary and not a biggermental illness.
They're just like a lot ofpeople back then, and he said
that he was helping by teachinghis kids to be quiet for longer

(29:32):
periods of time.
Oh, he was also instructingthem on woodworking.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
That's what he said, okay.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, so your wife tried to off herself.
You stopped her, and Now yourkids can.
Well, I'm teaching my kid howto off herself.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
You stopped her and now your kids can.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Well, I'm teaching my kid how to sand wood yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, I don't get it.
I did see in another thingbriefly, he mentioned how the
kids and him built a four personbunk bed together.
So I think in his head that's afamily thing, it's a group
activity.
Yeah, when I looked into it Ithought, okay, don't judge so
hard.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Okay, it's just the sweet, it was the way.
Yeah, yeah, the starkness, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, and got them into woodworking, like what?
Okay?

Speaker 2 (30:14):
You like wood?

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, okay, andrea's hospital psychiatrist discharged
her due to insurance reasons ohright, very american.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, it's word america, because everything is
dumb and preventable.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah he also wrote in his notes that she would
respond better to a femalepsychiatrist, someone more
nurturing I think this guy wasjust offloading her.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
I don't think he wanted her anymore.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
honestly, the psychiatrist prescribed Zoloft
before offloading Andrea ontowhoever?
Else will take her.
But Andrea did not like takingpills and she would often fake,
swallow them, hide them in hercheek, she took 400 of them a
week ago.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, I don't think you didn't mind taking them then
.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Right, but so soon.
Andrea's mom and Rusty weredouble checking her, having her
open her mouth.
Show that they weren't hiddenaway somewhere.
Andrea was just getting worseafter she was discharged.
She was staying in bed all day.
She scratched four bald spotsinto her scalp and was picking
sores like on her nose,scratching at herself, and was
picking sores.

(31:22):
Like on her nose, scratching atherself.
She used her nails to scratchand like score marks on her legs
and arms.
Also during this time, she washaving visions and hearing
voices.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Okay, so she's clearly tripping balls and
having a psychotic break.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yes, rusty was not aware of the visions or the
voices.
She never told him about those.
Andrea said she heard commandslike get a knife, get a knife,
and that the visions that shesaw were the first ones she saw
when noah was born.
They came back, but they lastedlonger this time and were more

(32:03):
vivid.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
She said she saw them repeated about 10 times over
the next several days.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Does she acknowledge them as hallucinations or does
she think they're the voice ofGod?
Like does she believe?
I guess it's hard to ask.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, I don't really know.
She doesn't make much sense,really ever, and she stays quiet
.
Her version is she's a bad momand needs to salvation.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
So she stays religious.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, I don't.
I think she battles withherself.
She knows that their visions orhallucinations, but she also
doesn't know how to say no tothem.
They're constant.
So I think, say no to them.
They're constant.
So I think it's.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
If they're so constant, you just lose your
sense of reality eventually isthere any, if you know any,
history of schizophrenia in herfamily?

Speaker 1 (32:56):
I did see that after everything came to light with
andrea, that the family did lookinto their own just their own
personal mental health.
And I don't remember off thetop of my head but I think one
of them was diagnosed withbipolar, one of them was like
depression or something.
I don't know exactly, but theydid kind of discover oh, there

(33:17):
are things that run in ourfamily and I think Andrea does
have schizophrenia.
I did not see what herdiagnosis was, but the medicine
she takes, the way that shespeaks schizophrenia is at least
one of them.
Hallucinations yeah, it's atleast one of them.
But postpartum depression iswhat unleashed it all, I think,

(33:38):
Because usually schizophrenianeeds to crack open.
It's in you, but it needs tocrack open.
It's not in everyone, but it'sone of those fun gen.
Listen to the Galvin family,part one and part two.
Anyway, moving on, Andrea hadvisions.
They repeated over several days.
That's where we were Now.
Andrea also told her mom thatRusty and the children were

(34:00):
eating too much.
Yeah, when four-month-old Lukewould cry, Andrea would rock him
, give him a pacifier sing, butshe would not feed him.
Andrea's mother had to bottletrain Luke and then she ended up
being the one that fed him allthe time she took over.

(34:20):
Yeah, and Andrea's dad still hasAlzheimer's as well, so her mom
is taking care of all of this.
The day before Andrea wassupposed to see her new female
psychiatrist, rusty found her inthe bathroom with a knife to
her throat.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Rusty demanded the knife, and then Andrea yelled at
him to get out and then shesaid let me do it.
So there's two attempts to haveman once again.
Sometimes you just let them go.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, second attempt Rusty grabbed her arm and pried
the knife out of her hand.
Rusty told the psychiatristabout this and asked for her to
be hospitalized again.
The psychiatrist agreed andAndrea was sent to to spring
shadows glenn, a privatepsychiatric hospital in houston.
After just 10 days there,andrea was basically catatonic.

(35:17):
Wow yeah, doctors were talkingabout electric shock therapy,
but they decided against it.
Instead, they chose to try anemergency injection.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Of.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Multiple drugs, multiple antipsychotic drugs,
but the main thing was HaldolH-A-L-D-O-L.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
I've heard of that.
There's a longer name for it,but this is, yes, antipsychotic,
psychotropic medicine.
Yes, haldol.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
And it's used for severe, typically schizophrenic
cases.
The effects of the emergencyinjection were pretty immediate.
As soon as she was injected,rusty said that she exhaled, and
then she kind of moved arounderratically and then she fell
asleep.
When she woke up, rusty saidshe seemed a bit better.

(36:05):
He said he could tell that shewanted to get back into the
water.
She was motivated again.
The love for him entered hereyes once more.
She was coming back.
He said they had a great talkand that Andrea was finally
unguarded.
Later on, though, andrea saidthat it was the Haldol that made
her talk that way.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, it's the drugs.
I know talk that way, yeah,it's the drugs.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
I know she hated it the hypocrisy of this country.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
You should not take mood altering drugs That'll
increase your enjoyment of thisworld and mask how awful it
fucking is.
Also take this drug that justmasks how awful the world is and
gets you to go through yourfucking day yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Well, one we can charge differently for day.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, well, one we can charge differently for.
Yeah, anyway, back on topic.
Yep, andrea opened up more tothe hospital psychologist.
His name is james thompson andhe wrote in his notes that
andrea spoke about her attemptedsuicide.
She finally confessed it outloud and how that was her way of
trying to get rid of thevisions and the voices.
She said she had a fear thatshe was going to hurt someone

(37:14):
and she thought it better to endher own life before that
happened yes yeah, that's kindof always been your argument.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah, I mean don't kill anyone, just leave just
leave.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Leave is really the ultimate option here.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Just leave and separate yourself.
I know it's shitty to be a momor a dad who abandons your
family, but they're alive andabandoned right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
She's starting to tell people now.
This is why I'm doing this.
I'm trying to not hurt othersaround me.
Then she says that what otherssaw as her being quiet and
nervous, those were her attemptsto refrain herself from acting
out and causing harm.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
So everyone sees this kind of shy, quiet thing when
she's really inside raging yeah,yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
What's that quote from Mike Tyson?
I'm on Zoloft to keep myselffrom killing all you
motherfuckers.
Yeah, he said it like at apress conference.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
He said some wild things.
Oh yeah, yeah, I'm on Zoloft tokeep myself from killing all
you motherfuckers.
Yeah, he said it like at apress conference.
He said some wild things.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, I'm on Zoloft to keep from killing all
you motherfuckers.
Yeah, damn and.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Rusty at the time didn't know any of this, because
obviously she's saying all thisto her medical professionals.
These are in the notes.
Back at Andrea's parents' house, things were getting crowded.
Andrea's brother was now livingat the house with his kids.
They needed more space and theYates.
They could afford to move out.

(38:34):
They could.
But Andrea's mom the only hangup was she didn't want them to
move back into the bus.
She was like don't do that, geta house.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
And they all agreed.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
They're like yes, you work for NASA and you've got a
brood yeah, and they all agreed.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
They're like yes for nasa and you've got a brood.
Oh yeah, rusty was makingeighty thousand dollars a year
working at nasa.
Eighty thousand at that time,yeah that's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
So is that good?

Speaker 1 (38:54):
I don't know for today that would be 155 000 oh
okay, yeah, that's solid.
Yeah, if he's the only onemaking money, with a family of
five children, so a family ofseven has she had mary yet?

Speaker 2 (39:06):
she hasn't had Mary yet, but still whatever.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
They will.
That's enough.
They can get a house is all I'msaying Nothing crazy, but they
can get a house.
Yeah, they soon got athree-bedroom, two-bath house on
Beachcomber Lane.
Okay, it had a nice yard withnice big mature trees, enough
space to park the bus as well,so he got to keep that.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Oh, why not?

Speaker 1 (39:28):
sell it.
Well, if they need to, theywill, but they didn't have to.
Like I said, he's doing wellenough.
They had a great privacy fenceand there was a pool in their
community like a neighborhoodpool.
Rusty brought Andrea to signfor the house.
He wanted her name to be on thedeed.
Of course she the house.

(39:49):
He wanted her name to be on thedeed.
Of course she was taking haldolonce a month now and was pretty
much a zombie at this point.
She could barely hold the pen.
But was able yeah, she was ableto sign the papers, but barely
able to hold the pen.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
So how was that legal like?
How can that be legally bindingif the witness is like she
could, the pen kept falling outand she was drooling and she's
like but that's legally bindingif you're in that state.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
I mean, but it it honestly helps more than hurts
her, though, to be on the deedLike it'd be more shitty of him,
I think, for I think he wasdoing it in a nice way of like
no, your name should be on thedeed, because this is how you
get any sort of property rights.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
If we get a divorce, your name, like this, is
protection for her If she waslike it had to be like that
moment, like I'm sure she wasn't24 seven on this, like you
couldn't have waited.
I don't know.
A couple hours for it to wearoff.
Maybe the symptoms to I don'tknow.
So she could hold a pen.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, she signed and there she, and that was that.
As the months went by at thenew house, andrea began to
improve.
She started swimming again.
She would do about 70 laps atdawn in the neighborhood pool.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
She was gardening she was planting milkweed to
attract butterflies that she andNoah both loved.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Andrea turned their den into a classroom.
She was homeschooling the kids.
Well, Noah was the only onethat needed to be homeschooled,
but that was her plan.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Oh cause he's the oldest.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
He's the oldest, yeah .
Well yeah, one step forward,five steps back.
Michael preacher, yeah, Iplanted some flowers, but also
you're going to starthomeschooling kids in your
bunker?
I don't Well anyone ever reallytalking about the religious
side of Andrea Yates.
I only knew this when I waslike 12.
But I feel like that was kindof missed, like I think that's a

(41:32):
part of it.
I do, I'm sorry, yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
No one in this country wants to criticize other
religions.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Well, so she was getting ready to homeschool and
she would do like interactivelessons.
Right, the benefits ofhomeschooling You're going to
read something like Black Beautyand then you're going to go
horseback riding Okay, that'sfun.
You're going to learn aboutplants by going outside and
seeing the plants.
So she was a very interactivemom with homeschooling.
She bought extra workbooks evenbecause she wanted their kids

(42:01):
to like really excel they alsofor music.
I thought this was cute.
They would pretend that theywere like in a marching band and
march up and down and playinstruments, but they would be
recorded on the video camera sothat Rusty could see it when he
came home from work.
It's like a fun thing.
He wasn't like criticizing them,he was just like fun, like look
what we did today Nice.

(42:21):
Okay, I thought that was cuteand cool.
I thought you'd think that wasweird, and you don't.
You surprise me every day.
Yeah, when Andrea wasn'thomeschooling, she could be
found baking late into the nightor sewing costumes by hand.
She wouldn't do this just forher own kids, but for her

(42:44):
friends and their children aswell.
She was always helping out ifthey needed something.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
She's got some kind of social life.
She's got friends outside ofthe house.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
When she's doing well , she really does have a little
bit of a social life.
At least she kept her distance,but she would do things.
Andrea always had the beststocked diaper bag and stroller,
docked diaper bag and stroller.
One of the mothers that shewould hang out with said that
Andrea loved to nurture herchildren and that she never
seemed like she was never in arush.

(43:14):
So yeah, when she was good shewas good Like on.
The Yates family eventually gotinto a good routine.
On Wednesday nights Rusty wouldtake one of the boys out for
pizza, and Thursday nights wasMommy's Night Out, wherey would
take one of the boys out forpizza, and Thursday nights was
Mommy's Night Out, where Andreawould take one of the younger
kids with her to go and dosomething.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, mommy's Night Out sounds like she should be
alone drinking wine or something.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, mama's Night Out Pour me, another Moscato.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, she rents out the pedal trolley alone.
The family also studied theBible together three nights a
week in the living room.
Rusty did not find a churchthat he liked, so he was growing
less and less fond of organizedreligion, as we said before.
And then Michael, the preacherguy, was still kind of around

(44:08):
through letters and phone calls.
At this point Rusty wasstarting to not really fall in
line completely with thepreacher.
He did say in an interview thatAndrea was intrigued by the
whole repent or burn zeal.
Yeah, she was kind of intriguedby that.
Andrea would exchange letterswith the preacher and his wife,

(44:32):
michael, wrote in one letter toandrea that the role of the
woman is derived from the sin ofeve and bad children come from
bad mothers.
Andrea asked the preacher towrite a letter to her parents
trying to convert them fromcatholic it's weird that, like

(44:53):
she was apparently raisedcatholic and needs more guilt,
yeah like you know what catholicdoesn't make me feel shitty
enough?

Speaker 2 (45:00):
yeah, I need to get something that that's really
pants me for the piece of shit Iam.
I.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
I don't get enough of that from Catholicism.
Andrea's parents began to growconcerned after receiving this
letter.
Rusty was also taking note ofall of this and like huh, okay,
this is getting a little toomuch even for me.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
He introduced her to the concept.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
He did.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
This whole story is just like Frankenstein monsters
being created yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
However, when he was interviewed and someone asked
him about this, he kind ofshrugged it off and he just said
a guy can't complain that hiswife is reading the Bible too
much.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yes, you absolutely can.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yes, you can.
Yes, you can, yes, you can.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yes, I would leave you in a heartbeat if you were
like reading the Bible.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Like seriously they're not religious in any way
, though he is, so it's going tobe different for him.
Andrea was still taking herHaldol injections regularly.
These injections have been upto twice a month now, instead of
once a month.
She's also seeing a socialworker for her counseling.

(46:05):
So she's around this time.
Things are more or less stable.
It's sort of being pushed underthe rug, though.
It's like not being handled.
It's just there.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah, so if I can predict, you know, when a fire
is contained, you throttle ourbaby on it, right?

Speaker 1 (46:22):
We're still in 1999, though.
We're still in 1999, though.
And at one point during this,within the eye of the storm,
rusty asks Andrea what hermental illness was like Like.
What's it like?
And she just said very dark.
And then she just didn'tdiscuss it further and he never

(46:44):
asked about it again, hittingthe mic, mic pop, hitting the
mic.
So it's just by the end of 1999, andrea was seemingly happy
again.
It's all fixed, she's bakingcookies, she's exercising.
She felt so good that she tookherself off of medication well,
I don't know if she took herselfoff or if she spoke to her
doctor about it, because herdoctors did believe this was

(47:05):
temporary as well.
Like this was all liketemporary.
I mean just wait until you getbetter, yeah.
While she was on medication andgoing through this ordeal,
rusty and Andrea were usingprotection whenever they would
become intimate with one anotherCoitus.
Mm, hmm, but now thateverything was better and she

(47:26):
was off the medication, theystopped using protection okay,
okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
So I'm trying to understand this logic.
So you're aware that your wifeis mentally ill?

Speaker 1 (47:42):
was is what he's thinking.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, at this moment when you're using the protection
.
You're using the contraceptivesbecause you don't want to get
pregnant.
At that point they're decidingwe don't want to get pregnant
yes, they're not against birthcontrol.
Yeah, and they don't want toget pregnant, then because she's
not okay?

Speaker 1 (48:01):
and of the medication she's on as well because of the
hard medicine.
It would affect her that thehow, the how doll, I think would
affect a pregnancy or be ofconcern they did not want to get
pregnant while she was onmedication.
It's not temporary, we know now, but they did think it was.
However, they see the patternthat every baby she has, she

(48:22):
goes through this and she getsclose to killing herself twice.
So just, even if it's temporary, why go through it again?

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Even if you believe it's temporary, why risk doing
it again?
Yeah, why.
It doesn't make sense to methis, yeah.
So in the spring of 2000,andrea was pregnant again.
Andrea's psychiatrist warnedthat if the depression did come
back, it could be worse.
But Rusty and Andrea, they wereconfident that they knew how to

(48:51):
detect the warning signs nowand were better prepared to
handle it should it happen again.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
I'm asking what's worse than swallowing 40 pills
and then putting a knife to yourown neck?

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah Well, we're going to find out what's worse
than that yeah, exactly doornumber three yeah, andrea's
mother and an old friend ofandrea's from when she was a
nurse back in the nursing daysthey also thought that another
child was a bad idea.
They were both in the samethought process of you already

(49:26):
have four kids, why do you needanother one?
And there's a severe risk ofpostpartum depression.
What are you doing?
And the friend said in aninterview that Rusty only cared
about Rusty.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah, by Thanksgiving of 2000, andrea and Rusty had a
baby girl, mary, born earlierthat November.
Now they have five children andAndrea was taking care of all
of them, the household alsotrying to homeschool the oldest
kids while taking care of theyoungest baby, mary.

(50:00):
Then Andrea's dad's health tooka turn for the worst in the
spring of 2001.
Andrew's dad was hospitalized.
Even though Andrew was verybusy, she had the baby and all
the kids and everything going on.
She never missed a day at thehospital to visit and care for
her dad.
She would bring the kids withher.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
She was making it happen.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
The hospital eventually sent her dad home to
spend his final days in hishouse with his family.
Yeah, it was like a send-offsituation.
The night he died, Andrea wentover to her parents' house to
see them after he had passedaway, but she just could not
handle it.
It was too devastating for herand she soon left.

(50:43):
After the death of her dad,Andrea threw herself into the
Bible even more.
She became harsher with herkids.
Andrea was constantly holdingMary, but she wouldn't feed her.
Yeah, she stopped talking andwould go days without drinking
liquids.
She began scratching her headto baldness again.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
This is only about three weeks since her dad's
death nearly building up thetension andrea's psychiatrist
suggested that she bere-hospitalized readmitted.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
She was sent to a different hospital this time
because nasa didn't work well,the insurance again switched um,
his job switched insurances,and so they had to go to a new
place, and this place was theDevereux Texas Treatment Network
.
There's a few of them.
This one is the one that's nearLeague Texas.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
It just started picturing a hospital named after
Blanche Devereux from GoldenGirls, I started cracking up the
idea that there's a psychiatrichospital.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
I'm assuming it's pronounced Devereux because of
how it's spelled.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah, I'm sure it is I didn't look into it.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
D-E-V-E-R-E-U-X.
Yeah, devereux.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
I just think it's funny you just pictured Blanche
Devereux.
Blanche Devereux.
Come on, come on in we'll helpyou.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Asylum for the criminally insane or whatever.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yeah, well, she's not criminal yet yeah, well, she's
getting there she's almost therethe system's getting her there,
though slowly, on its cart, onits tracks this is why I'm
calling out the name here.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Okay, this is the tipping point.
March 31st 2001.
Andrea refuses to leave thehouse.
She's supposed to be going toDevereaux today.
Okay, andrea's brother comes tohelp and Rusty and Andrea.
Andrea refuses to leave thehouse.
She's supposed to be going toDevereaux today.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Andrea's brother comes to help and Rusty and
Andrea's brother have to dragher into the truck.
Then they have to drag her intothe facility and Andrea refuses
to sign the forms she won'tadmit herself in right.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
So what do you do?
Well, the psychiatrist and thestaff are like all right, we
will write letters to a Texasjudge and we will say that you
need to be confined to theAustin State Hospital because
your condition is dangerous.
So you either do that or youcome to this private facility.
Which one yeah.
After some convincing, Andreacomplies and she checks herself

(53:05):
in.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Now she finally admitted herself in, but she
obviously didn't want to.
She was clearly not reallygiven a choice which she needed
to go.
I agree she had to get there.
The psychiatrist at Devereauxis Dr Mohamed Saeed.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
I'm calling him out.
I don't really like him.
He asked her or asked Rusty forAndrea's medical history, and
Rusty told him what he knew.
But he also was like, can youget it though?

Speaker 2 (53:35):
He didn't get her chart.
Yes, from the previousphysician.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Right, right and Rusty in his, the husband's,
like.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
so what are we dealing with here?

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Yeah, yeah, and Rusty was like I'll tell you what I
know is everything I know, butlike, can you please get her
information though, so you cansee it all?

Speaker 2 (53:50):
It's like all the medicine, all the things I don't
know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
So Rusty was even like.
This is weird.
I don't like this.
Eventually, dr Saeed didreceive some of her records, but
not all of them.
Okay, I don't know whathappened there.
Know what happened there afterreceiving the little bit extra.
Now again, rusty does not knowabout visions and auditory
hallucinations.
He doesn't know so he wouldnever say anything about that

(54:14):
this is what you would find inher records yeah, so she, she
was.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Oh yeah, she did tell her yeah previous physicians
she yeah, that's how in some ofher notes anyway.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Um, but after reading again he only got some of her
records.
But after reading it he wrotein his notes no new info.
So then dr saeed decided, afterthe minimal background
information he has on andrea,that he didn't want her to be on
haldol.
He didn't like that medication.

(54:43):
Yeah, so he's changing hermedication without even knowing
the full extent of everything.
Yep, rusty really disagreed andhe was like no, no, no, no, no,
we're keeping her on that.
I don't agree with this.
Like we've been through this,this is the only thing that
really seems to help her at all.
So Dr Saeed decided to keep heron there for a little bit.

(55:03):
However, he discontinued theprescription just after three
weeks.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Okay, so he just weaned her off.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Yeah, he said he was concerned about flat face, which
was a side effect.
Okay, and I looked into it.
So I first searched sideeffects of Haldol and this does
not come up as like a normal onthe list thing.
It's not on the list, it's noteven on a rare part of the list.
So then I looked up does Haldolhave a side effect of flat face

(55:32):
?
And then something did come up.
It said flat face question mark.
Do you think it's called maskface question mark?
So I think that's the samething, because 90s versus 2025,
whatever.
However, it's so rare that itdoesn't come up on its own.
It's like a rare, rare one andthere's other side effects that
are more common than this okayso I've I'm calling bullshit

(55:56):
like he could have used anythingelse.
Yeah, anything.
Just too rare of a side effectto be that concerned over now.
Dr saeed, he did only speakduring a pre hearing and during
this pretrial hearing hementioned that he based his
decision about the medication onthe limited responses that he
was getting from Andrea.

(56:16):
She barely spoke.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Exactly.
That doesn't make sense to me.
He said I did not see anyevidence of psychosis and I have
a notation that he saw from thelittle bit of background that
he did get on her, a notationthat said she denied

(56:40):
hallucinations and delusions.
So sure, maybe somewhere shedid deny it, but if you don't
have the full records then youdon't see where she said she did
see them or hear them.
The doctor said that she neverspoke about her inner torment
and while she was at thehospital she watched videos
about drug addiction.
That's what he had her do, yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
But she wasn't a substance abuser, exactly I mean
the drug she was prescribed shetook.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
but he doesn't make sense.
So that was what he said in hispretrial hearing.
That was his excuse for things.
Okay, yeah, and the reason thehospital said that she was
watching this drug addictionvideo was because it's
therapeutic and offers copingskills.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Yeah, All right.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Yep, it took Andrea 10 days to start feeding herself
again.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
I don't know if this was another suicide attempt or
what, but she wasn't reallyfeeding herself.
She was needed to be, like kindof fed.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Spoon fed yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
After she was feeding herself.
Apparently that was enough, andDr Saeed discharged her.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
She can hold a spork, yeah, let her out Bye.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Even her medicine was known at the time to not be
very stable yet, like they werestill kind of figuring out what
this cocktail should be, but shecould eat, so bye.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Mission accomplished.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Yeah, the doctor told Rusty that he calculated the
risk and that Rusty would beable to take care of her and she
would just do better at home.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
I mean he builds machines that go to space.
He can handle a sad woman.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
I mean, I'm sorry, but as a nanny, this came
straight to my head and I'm suremothers out there are, like
there's five children at home.
What, and is Rusty not going towork every day, then what the
fuck?
What I'm not going to workevery day, then what the fuck?
What I'm not going to heal atall or rest at all?

(58:31):
What, again, the fuck.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
No, men, making decisions for women never works
Period.
It doesn't work.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Well, I mean, it doesn't work for you, it's
worked for us, okay, it's workedout us Okay, it's worked out
fine for us Speak the truth,yeah.
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
It's okay, I hate you .
Back at home.
Andrea refuses to even get ahousekeeper.
She doesn't want extra help foranything, because that would
admit that she was a failure atrunning her own home.
So she's a bad mother if shecan't do her own shit.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Making virtues out of suffering.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Rusty was able to have his mom, dora, come from
Tennessee and help though, soDora was staying at like a
nearby motel and she would helpAndrea with the children during
the day while Rusty was at work.
Okay, on May 3rd of 2001,andrea and her mother-in-law and

(59:32):
the kids all went for a walk.
After they returned home, noahthe oldest saw Andrea turn the
water on in the bathtub andbegin drawing a bath.
Noah told his grandmother aboutit and dora went and turned off
the water.
Dora asked andrea why she wasfilling up the tub, because it

(59:52):
wasn't like bath time yeah andandrea said I might need it.
Yeah, yeah, dora drained the tub.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
She took care of that oh, she did, that was done.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Yep, that's not the Okay.
Nope, I know Edging.
Yeah, oh God, I don't like this.
There was another time Andrea'sfriend dropped off some food to
her, but the friend said thatAndrea would not let her inside.
And this friend also said thatRusty wasn't really too big on

(01:00:26):
pills.
So I'm wondering if, like Rustywould say things you know some
people like oh, you don't needpills.
All in your head, it's all inyour head.
You know what, out of all thetimes I've heard that, you know
how much happier my 20s wouldhave been had I just fucking
taken the pills.
I worked out.
I ate, right.
I ran like 15 miles a day tochill out.

(01:00:47):
You know what helps me chillout my medicine.
It's the best.
So yeah, it is all in yourfucking head, but your head is
strong and you need helpsometimes.
I hate people like that, anyway,but Andrea's friend wasn't much
better either, because I guessback in 1999, this friend was

(01:01:07):
talking torea when she had herfirst little breakdown well
breakdown, yeah, and was likemaybe you're possessed by the
devil I mean, maybe she was youknow well, whatever, yeah, so
andrea's friend at this time in2001 was like maybe it's a demon
, it's not, but like, get thatout of andrea's head.
So this is happening all inandrea's world here, so stupid
humans are so funny god.

(01:01:28):
Yeah.
Well, after all these weirdthings happening, rusty spoke to
the doctors at devereaux againand they agreed that andrea
should be readmitted.
So a quick little recap here.
She was first admitted todevereaux like march 31st.
The end of March Spent a fewweeks.

(01:01:50):
There was discharged.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Because she could eat again.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Yeah, as soon as she could eat again.
Then she was back at thehospital roughly the first week,
maybe into the second week ofMay, like May 5th, 6th somewhere
in that time frame.
So it's been like a few weeks,it's been a spring.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Yes, spring is wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Now this time at Devereaux, Andrea's roommate
said that she was eerily muteand her eyes were very wide and
she looked like a scared person.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Sounds like she barely spoke anyway.
Yeah, like the doctor's, likeshe didn't, she didn't speak
much.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Yeah, the roommate's name is Lori, and Lori said that
there were rules that Rustydidn't follow, that he couldn't
just come in whenever he wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah, I understand and he did.
Why didn't the staff stop him?

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
I don't know, but Lori said that that was—this is
an interview that Lori said Okay, right, I don't know.
Lori also said that her parents, lori's parents, would come to
family group therapy sessionsand they said that they would
see Rusty there.
They told Lori this and Rustywould dominate the conversations

(01:02:58):
and he would answer questionsthat the counselor would ask
Andrea directly.
But they also said that Andreawouldn't even nod her head when
asked a question okay, maybehe's answering, because she just
won't yeah I.
I don't know what rusty's doingin that situation.
So again we.

(01:03:19):
Rusty seems to be a polarizingperson I'm not a fan.
I'll just say that yeah, asandrea was in hospital, her
medicine began to stabilize andshe was on a combination of
Haldol and antidepressants.
She seemed to be doing better.
They were still doing suicidechecks every 15 to 20 minutes

(01:03:40):
though, okay, but she was doingbetter.
When the doctors asked her theroutine question of are you
having thoughts of suicide, shefinally answered no.
I say routine questions.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
If you've been in any sort of mental health world,
that's a standard question islike do you have thoughts of
suicide?

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Do you have thoughts of harming others?
You have that you just kind ofgo through the list yeah, may
14th 2001.
When Rusty came to visit, hefound Andrea waiting by the
nurse's station, ready to gohome.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Yeah, She'd been released and the doctor wrote in
his notes that she stillappeared depressed but was
eating and sleeping much better.
Yeah, Other hospital workersnoted that in her group therapy
sessions she still barely evensaid her name.
The nurses noted that her moodwas somber and her judgment was
still impaired.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
However, she was showering and eating with
minimal prompting, so she wasready to go, she still had to be
told to do it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
One month after her release.
We're in early June of 2001 now.
Andrea's psychiatrist still, drSaeed took Haldol out of her
medicine lineup.
So once she's out in the worldhe starts to wean her off of it.
And then he's switching up hermeds a little bit here.
Rusty said that he was going tothe pharmacist like multiple

(01:05:06):
times a week trying to keep upwith all the changes he was
making.
Yes, on June 18th Andrea andRusty had an appointment with Dr
Saeed and Rusty told Dr Saeedthat Andrea was declining and
that he was concerned.
Rusty also said that he wasgetting more and more frustrated

(01:05:26):
.
He just was like I'm gettingannoyed because whenever Andrea
makes a little progress, it'd befollowed by a slightly faster
decline.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Yeah, that's what I said like an hour ago.
It just keeps getting worse andworse.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
And he's like this is getting ridiculous, doc, but Dr
Saeed was just still againstusing that Haldol.
He's saying it was just a badmedication.
Dr Saeed asked Andrea onceagain if she was suicidal and
she said no.
However, he never did ask ifshe felt like doing harm to

(01:06:00):
others.
He never asked that question,and that's standard.
I go and see a therapist foranxiety and depression.
It's like there's a list thatyou go through and you're almost
like do you have harm, suicide,do you have thoughts of hurting
others?
Do you hear voices, do you seethings?
You just kind of go.
It's just a part of the daythat should be this way for him
as well, and it's not.

(01:06:21):
Also, as they were leaving hisoffice, dr Saeed turns to Andrea
and says that he's going toneed her help as well and that
she needs to find new ways ofcontrolling her mind and to
think positive thoughts.
The following day, june 19th2001, andrea watched cartoons in

(01:06:43):
the living room and then latershe joined in a round of
basketball with Rusty and Noahin the garage.
She took about 15 shots andthen, without a word, went back
inside and crawled into bedwithout changing her clothes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
And she fell asleep and didn't wake up until the
next morning.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
All right, I like that.
This is also I just realized,but this is June of 2001.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
So we're also building towards the towers
coming down.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
I know it's like this in the background.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
For me, this was the biggest news story in 2001
before 9-11 happened, oh, okay.
These are the two news storiesof 2001 that I remember Andrea
Yates Spoiler Cut.
These are the two things Iremember in 2001.
I won't spoil it this time.
Andrea Yates and 9-11.

(01:07:38):
Yeah, that defines my 2001.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
It's like, as she's planning what she's going to do
in Texas, yeah.
Those guys are all over theEast Coast planning, yeah.
Florida taking flying lessonsand all that shit.
Buying box cutters yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
I forgot about the box cutters, anyway, sending
back society by hundreds ofyears.
The morning of June 20th 2001.
Rusty noticed that Andrea wasnervous in her movements.
She seemed rushed and a biterratic.
Their son, john, asked rusty ifhe could finally go to work
with him that day.

(01:08:15):
Rusty could not take him thatday because he had too many
meetings, so he wasn't able totake his son.
After Rusty checked to makesure that Andrea took her pills,
he went off to work.
Now Andrea is alone with herchildren from 9 am to 10 am.
Dora, the mother-in-law, comesover at 10 am.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
Okay, she just got an hour.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
She got an hour alone with the kids.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Okay, clock's ticking .

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Mm-hmm.
As the children were eatingbreakfast, andrea called them
into the bathroom, one at a time.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
She first calls in Paul.
He's three years old.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
And she proceeds to drown him in the bathtub.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
She holds him underwater and she said that he
died quickly.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Allegedly.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
She then carried Paul's body to her bed and
tucked him under her maroonblanket and rested his head on
the pillows.
Next she called in two-year-oldLuke and did the same thing
Mm-hmm.
And then five-year-old Luke didthe same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
And then five-year-old John, same thing.
And then baby sister Mary wasnext.
Now Mary has been with Andreathis whole time.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Like being held by her.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Andrea was distracting Mary with a bottle,
okay, which she didn't reallyfeed Mary ever, but she fed her.
Yeah, andrea was distractingMary with a bottle Okay.
Which she didn't really feedMary ever, but she fed her this
time.
Okay, so she wouldn't crawlaway and Mary's only six months
at this time.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
So Mary was drowned.
Noah is the oldest child, atseven and he's the last one
Andrea calls him in.
Mary was still in the bathtubfloating with her face down.
Noah sees this when he comes inand he asks his mom what's

(01:10:14):
wrong with Mary?
Then, realizing that somethingbad was happening, Noah tries to
run away.
Happening Noah tries to runaway.
Andrea chased him down anddragged him into the bathroom.

(01:10:34):
She forced him face down andNoah, according to Andrea, came
up for air twice, and when itwas all done, andrea placed
Mary's body in the bed alongwith her brothers that were
already there, and she wrappedthe boys' arms around their baby
sister.
However, she left Noah in thebathtub.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Did she say why?

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
I didn't see, huh, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
After Andrea drowned all of her children, she
repeatedly called 911.
I read the call transcript.
It's interesting.
I'm not going to read it all,I'm going to give you some
because it's just odd.
She tells the operator her name, Andrea Yates Then she doesn't
say what the problem is.

(01:11:19):
The operator asks and Andreasays I just need them to come.
And the operator asks if herhusband is there and she says no
.
Then the operator asks what theproblem?
What's?

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
the problem.
What do you need?

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
police fire paramedics and andrea again says
she just needs them to come,and the operator's like I need
to know what they're respondingto.
Then the operator asks ifandrea is is ill, and andrea
says yep, I'm ill.
And then the operator asks doyou need an ambulance?
And andrea says no, I need apolice officer.

(01:11:55):
Yeah, send an ambulance okayyeah, and they just kind of go
back and forth, back and forth alittle bit, and then Andrea
just keeps being weird.
The operator asks are you alone?
And Andrea says yes.
Then a little later she saysare you alone again?
And Andrea says no, my sister'shere.
And it just ends on that.
So you can tell that she's justnot in a state of anything

(01:12:18):
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
Frenzied.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Yeah.
Andrea then calls Rusty at work.
She tells him to come home.
Rusty asks her if anyone washurt and she said yes, it's the
children, All of them.
So he rushes home.
Andrea was drinking a Diet Cokewhen she told the homicide
sergeant what she did and why.

(01:12:41):
She said she didn't hate thechildren and she wasn't mad at
them.
They just weren't developingcorrectly.
Oh Right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
That's not what I was expecting.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
They weren't developing correctly.
When they asked her how longshe had been considering the
murders, she said for about twoyears.
Oh, her first breakdown was in99.
She said for about two years,oh, her first breakdown was in
99.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
yeah, 2001, two years later and how old was the
second youngest one, rightbefore mary?

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
two okay, so around the time that she had, yeah yeah
okay, yeah so she said she'dbeen thinking about it for two
years quote since I realized Ihave not been a good mother to
them.
Later on she would tell thejail doctors that nothing could
mute the pattern.
That said she was a lousymother.

(01:13:34):
The death of her children washer punishment, not theirs, and
she saw it as a final act ofmercy for them, not theirs.
And she saw it as a final actof mercy for them.
This is that christian,american, christian woo-woo
bullshit that I don't like anddon't support.
It don't christianity, sure,fine, whatever, I don't give a
shit.
This american crazy shit.

(01:13:57):
Here.
We know the difference, we know.
And if you don't know, thenyou're in it.
Get out, sorry, I'm sick of it.
Ruining our damn country.
That's right.
After andrea failed herchildren, she felt only an
execution would rescue her fromthe evil inside of her okay

(01:14:18):
right then, after the executiontalk, she asks for a
state-sanctioned exorcism.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
Yeah, they don't do those.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Well, she wanted it from the then-governor George W
Bush.
She says scripture taught herthat the government is a
minister of God.
That's what she says.
I don't read the Bible, but shesaid that scripture taught her
that government is a minister ofGod.
Andrea also told the doctorsthat she wanted her hair shaved
so she could see the numbers 666on her scalp.

(01:14:51):
Yeah, she then said she wantedher hair cropped into the shape
of a crown.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rusty visited Andrea two daysafter her arrest and he said
that Andrea went from being likea zombie to just plain bizarre.
Okay, she was like suspicious ofhim, kind of skeptical of him

(01:15:29):
when he tried to introduce herto her lawyer she was not
wanting to meet him, didn't haveany interest in it, because she
said, I'm not going to pleadnot guilty.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Plead not guilty, I am guilty.
I you know.
She was just ready to rot injail.
Well, it sounds like she wantsto be executed too, right?
Right, I mean texas is yeah,yeah, they are not shy about
killing their inmates mentallyill.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
She didn't give a shit at this time.
She was like I'm, I'm done.
Yep, I did it, I'm done.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
Here it is that's the one, the one spot where Texas
is like not discriminatory.
They will kill any and everyonein their jail cells.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Yep Andrea was charged with five counts of
capital murder in 2002 andconvicted to life in prison with
possibility of parole in 40years.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Oh yeah, that's shocking.
Shocking, what do you mean?
She killed five people.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
Oh yeah, that's shocking.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Shocking.
What do you mean?
She killed five people.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Oh, that she didn't get the death penalty.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
Well, it's shocking that in Texas I guess they are a
little discriminatory theydon't want to kill women as much
as they do men in.
Texas because chivalry.
But I mean it's weird that shewould michigan life without
parole, let alone five.
I know this is in michigan, I'mjust giving a counterpoint.

(01:16:28):
But like there are fivepremeditated murders and she's
still as eligible for parole,yeah, I thought that was strange
too if only she had been aminority who shot a guy at
7-elevenven, then she would havegotten the death penalty in
Texas.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
Yeah, the judge was, I guess, pushing for the death
penalty.
I don't really know.
I didn't dive too deep into theactual trial because there's
another one.
We will get into it, but Ididn't get into all the nitty
gritty like the actual legalterms and the paperwork and the
sentencing conviction and thepleas and the guilty and the not
guilty.
I didn't really it doesn'tmatter.

(01:17:05):
There's bigger things here.
Sorry to you, I apologize, butI think what happened was she
went in wanting to be punished,basically wanting to be executed
, and wanting these things.
I think over time of hersitting there.
You know it's 2002 by this time.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
I'm sure she had all kinds of psychiatric evaluations
, whether she's competent or notcompetent.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
And her having a will that's contrary to what society
says, by definition makes hermentally ill, Right?

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
So so, and Rusty also is like supportive of his wife
during this time.
He's mentally ill though he youknow, dusty also is supportive
of his wife during this time.
He's mentally ill, though Imean we'll get into the way he
thinks, and his story is quite atragedy as well, if you think
about it.
He's just in all of this.
While she was in prison, shewas still delusional.
She was telling authoritiesthat she was telling everyone

(01:17:59):
the authorities and everyonethat she'd been planning to kill
her kids for two years in orderto save them from eternal
damnation.

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
So she had a daughter to kill it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
You're right.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
So she had one, just to kill it For two years she had
another.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
She said that her children were not righteous.

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
Whose fault would that be?

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
Oh, yes, right, she is at fault in her own way.
Yeah, oh yeah, that's right,she is at fault in her own way.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
Well, she goes on to say they stumbled because I was
evil the way I was raising them.
They could never be saved.
They were doomed to perish inthe fires of hell.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
Okay, so I'll buy all that, but then why'd you stop?

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
Why didn't you kill yourself?
And you again profess that youdeserve to be executed because
what you did is so bad.
And well, why did you call downone at all?
Yeah, I don't know, can'tanswer that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
Rusty did divorce Andrea in 2002, even though he
gave her support, he stilldivorced her.
He did remarry and have anotherchild that also ended in divorce
.
So there's that.
Now here's how the retrialhappened.
March 14th of 2002 this is inthe window of andrea was

(01:19:17):
convicted of murder, but thesentencing hasn't officially
happened yet.
So there was a psychiatristthat was brought into the trial
by the prosecution, and thepsychiatrist informed the
district attorney's office thathe gave an incorrect answer
during his cross-examination.
In his original testimony, thepsychiatrist said that he

(01:19:43):
consulted on an episode of Lawand Order that concerned a woman
with postpartum depression whodrowned her children in a
bathtub and was found insane.
He said that this show airedshortly before the Yates murders
occurred.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
Before Before.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
Okay, so he's saying in his testimony that she wanted
to kill her kids and is usingthis as a way to get away with
it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:11):
That she's saying she was inspired, and she was
inspired by this episode.
She's faking, essentially.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
Yes, now, the defense also used this episode in their
case, but in the opposite way.
They're like well, in theepisode they show that the woman
is insane, though which ourperson is Like, it's the same
thing, you're right.
They basically were like yeah,you're right, she's insane.
And so this testimony was usedquite a bit in the first trial,

(01:20:39):
just back and forth.
So, they had to do a retrialquite a bit in the first trial,
just back and forth.
Yeah, so they had to do aretrial.
The psychiatrist said that theLaw Order producers conducted a
search of the show's 269episodes and they told him that
they couldn't find any episodewith a woman with postpartum
depression who drowned herchildren in a bathtub.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
It doesn't exist.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
The psychiatrist said that he must have misremembered
a false memory.
Wait a minute.
The psychiatrist gave himself afalse memory that he testified
on and they didn't checkbeforehand that it actually
existed.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
So he testified during the trial that he was a.
How did law and order even comeup?

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
Because he is a consultant on law and order.
That's how the false memorycame up.
Okay, okay, that part.
I was like how?

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
do you come up with that you have a false job?

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
No, no, no, that's a real thing, he does consulting
for Law Order.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
He does and he does watch Law Order as well.
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
And so he said that he just honestly misremembered
put the two together I thoughtthe whole consulting too, was a
false memory.
I'm like how do you?

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
forget that you worked for law.
Like he's crazy, like that'snot a false memory.
He's a crazy person.
If you, I'm a doctor who worksfor a law and order, hollywood
pays me big bucks.
Sir, you're crazy.
You're not a doctor.
You never worked for law andorder.
You don't know dick wolf uh,yes.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
So during the retrial the focus was very different.
It was not on order, it was onandrea's mental health and not
what influenced her to carry outthe murders.
So public opinion also had amajor influence on the retrial,
because when she was first sentor convicted a few weeks earlier

(01:22:20):
, I remember even my mom talkingabout it being like, well, yeah
, she watched Law and Order andthat's what made her think of
this.
I remember people talking aboutthe show and thinking that,
yeah, that was the springboardto all of this.
But then this happened.
So the public outcry was likeno, no, we're not focusing on
the right thing.
We need to focus on thepostpartum depression of it all.

(01:22:41):
We need to focus on how she wasnot treated correctly for her
medical issue.
She just wasn't treatedcorrectly and women's health
overall needs a spotlight.
So this was kind of that Inthis retrial.
Andrea was deemed not guilty byreason of insanity in July of
2006.

(01:23:02):
So it must have taken a fewyears.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
Yeah, I didn't look into all of the nitty-gritty
trial.
This is a long enough podcastyeah, we got the bullet points.

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
The judge sent her to curvil state hospital, where
she continues to live today.
In 2006, rusty was visitingandrea every wednesday,
wednesday and Friday, withweekly calls thrown in there as
well.
During one of these visits,andrea told Rusty that it felt
like a fog was being lifted.
She was now finally stable andon proper medication.

(01:23:35):
For a while at first, andreawas not allowed to see photos or
videos of her kids, but onceshe was able to, rusty would
have her hear recordings.
He'd bring videos, pictures.
Rusty also cataloged theirmemories in like a digital
memorial site.

(01:23:55):
I'll link it in the show notesif you want to see it.
It's it's.
It's a public space for ahusband and a father to like
mourn his life, and he haslittle pages for each of the
kids and says what they like todo.
It was just.

(01:24:15):
It's a nice little moment intime and andrea does have access
to the, so I think he probablykeeps it up for himself and for
her to see.
So if you want it, the website,it'll be in the show notes,
take a look.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
Is it still like frequently updated or is it kind
of just?

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
I don't know how frequently it's updated.
I looked at it today andyesterday, but it doesn't really
have anything on there thatneeds updating.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
Okay, and I didn't look at it super long because I
actually started crying, but hedoesn't really have anything on
there that needs updating.
Okay, so he makes it a memorialsite?

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
Yeah, and I didn't look at it super long because I
actually started crying becauseI mean these kids, you see their
faces, you see their photos andyou see how much Rusty loved
them and the love that's there.
And you hear how Rusty usesmemories with Andrea too, or you
read Like he's saying you, youknow from john's perspective,

(01:25:05):
you know I loved when mom and Iwould do this and I loved when
mommy would do this with me,like it's just he's making it a
point to have a positive spacefor them, and that's confusing
and that's conflicting andthat's there's a lot of a lot of
layers to that I don't knowwhat I would do yeah, ultimately

(01:25:25):
, who gives a shit?

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
if you're not, him, like who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
yeah, he's not doing anything wrong yeah, it's yeah,
the yates children are buriednear a stream of running water
at the forest park east cemetery.
Rusty visits them often.
He'll talk out loud to hischildren and he really wishes he
would have let John come towork with him that day.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
I bet that sticks.
Once again meetings, Pointlessfucking meetings.
That's why he couldn't saveJohn, because he had to go to
meetings.
But jumping forward to 2024,Rusty will still speak about the
incident in, like interviewsand whatnot, not often you know,

(01:26:11):
but like yeah, often there'snew stuff come up about it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
He has forgiven Andrea.
He will still talk to her aboutonce a month.
Again, she's still at theKerrville State Hospital.
Rusty is around 60 now and hestill works for NASA.
Rusty still says that Andreawas a wonderful mother.
He just doesn't In 2001.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
That's a bad mother.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
Well, and this is where it gets confusing right.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
In 2001,.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
Rusty was very infamously skeptical of Andrea's
postpartum depression.
He was like I think there's aquote he says depressed people
just need a swift kick in thepants.
He said that, but now he'sevolved his beliefs and he
likens it to something morephysical like a heart attack or

(01:26:59):
you know, if I had a heartattack while I was driving my
car and I crashed and killedsomeone, I wouldn't be sentenced
to murder or like convicted ofmurder.
That's how he's viewing this.
He doesn't.
He doesn't view that andreacould control what she did.
Now does that mean thateveryone believes and agrees
with that?
I'm not saying yes or no.
It's again very polarizing.

(01:27:23):
It's something to talk about,you don't know.
What's interesting, though, isthat andrea, she can have a
hearing every year to determineif she can be released from the
hospital in there every year sherefuses.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
Okay, she doesn't believe she can be out yeah,
because, and I don't know Idon't know how they are in Texas
, but in Michigan if you'refound not guilty by reason of
insanity and a judge sentencesyou to psychiatric care, it's
essentially indefinite until thephysicians tell the court.
We think this person is welland rehabilitated enough.

Speaker 1 (01:27:57):
It sounded like that was similar.
I didn't look heavily into it,but from what I read it seems
similar that it would be up tothe hospital staff.
Not up to those, because you'renot punishing them.

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
In theory, you're putting them in the hospital to
get well, yes, so there's nolike punitive, like well, you
killed someone, so you still gotto serve 10 years regardless or
whatever.
It's like no, if they're wellin three months, theoretically
they're free in three monthsmonths.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
Theoretically, yeah, they're free in three months.
But Andrea says no, I don'twant to do it.
And I looked up when her mostrecent one was and the one I
could find was last year and shesaid no last year.
So she just doesn't want to bereleased.
Andrea is a year older thanRusty.
She's like 60 or 61 now, livingquietly.
She spends most of her daysmaking greeting cards and other
crafts.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
She's postmenopausal, so she can't recreate her crime
.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
Yeah, her crafts are usually featuring rainbows and
butterflies.
She sells them at shows, likeat art shows and festivals, and
all of the proceeds from hercrafts go to the Yates
Children's Memorial Fund andthat helps people that are
suffering from postpartumdepression.
So, yeah, that's it Cool, we'redone with the Yates family.

Speaker 2 (01:29:09):
The Yates family.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
So yeah, I just think it's important to bring that
one up because a lot of peopledon't want to talk about it
because it's so bad.
But yet we'll sit here and talkabout people like John List and
like axe murderers all day.
Why is this one so much worse?
It's because a mother does itto her children, but a father
doing it to their children isn'tthat bad Like this needs to be
talked about.
I just I don't know.

(01:29:31):
I get frustrated when peoplewill talk about all this other
true crime.
But why is it different?
Yeah, it made me cry, so didother shit that men have done
Like it all makes me cry.

Speaker 2 (01:29:42):
This one isn't any different.
You know none of.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
It's like nothing really affects me I mean, I
understand if, like, a parentdoesn't do any true crime that
involves children.
In general, that makes sense.
I, I can see that, but it'swhen you're okay with other true
crime family murders but notthis one.
I've noticed that and I'm likewhy?
Why?

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
yeah, talk about all kinds of not specifically, but I
mean we touched on jonestownand yeah obviously there was
hundreds of parents who killedyeah their own kids at once,
like yeah, hundreds of mobs whosquirted poison into their kids
mouths.

Speaker 1 (01:30:16):
So, yeah, that's part of depression.
I'm not, I'm not linking, butI'm oh no, no, no, just'm just
saying general filicide ofparents killing their kids
happens.
Women do it too.

Speaker 2 (01:30:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:26):
I'm sorry, you just.

Speaker 2 (01:30:28):
I've written I don't know between five and ten
stories over the years of womenwho have killed their kids.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
Usually it's intentional, but important too,
because, like I've been a nannyfor a lot of people and I've
been an infant nanny for a lotof women and a lot of women have
had postpartum depression andthey've been ashamed of it and
they've said it to me inwhispers of like have you been
with anyone?
Have you been with any othermothers who have felt this way
and did it?
and I'm just like, oh my god,yes, they've all gone through it

(01:30:57):
.
I'm telling you, mothers rightnow you've all gone through it
on different levels, but you'veall done it, so don't feel
ashamed to speak up about it.
It's okay to take a break fromyour kids.
It's okay to fucking hate yourkids for two seconds Don't hate
them forever but to have atwo-second moment where you just
want to scream and walk away.
Then do it Walk away.

(01:31:18):
Walk away Like that's whatyou're taught when you're in
child care.
You're taught to take a breakfrom those children, that they
will push you to your limit,that you will want to hit them.
You will want to, like, shakethem.
These are natural things thatyou're going to feel.
You are, because your kid isgoing to cry and cry and cry and
be a little bitch and you can'tdo anything about it.
So walk away, that's it.

(01:31:42):
Or don't have tea in the firstplace, yeah, or don't have any
in the first place, but if youdo decide to walk away and doom
scroll, you can follow us oninstagram at borrowed bones
podcast.
Also, listen to us wherever youknow apple spotify.
Please make sure you're rating,sharing us, us, liking us,
whatever us.
I don't know All the us's, butyeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:07):
Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
Bye.