Watts Family Massacre

A seemingly picture-perfect family is shattered when Chris Watts decided he wanted another life. Shan'ann Watts was willing to work on their marriage, showing her love for her husband via Facebook videos and posts. However, that wasn't enough for Chris. A happy marriage on social media...isn't always a happy marriage in reality. 

Sources:

Biography.com, Shan'ann's Obituary, Pregnancy Reaction Video, The Denver Post, Business Insider, The Denver Post-Chris' Confession, The Denver Post- New Confession, Denver7.com, Denver ABC, The Denver Post: Crime and Public Safety, Coloradoan, Denver Post-Nicole Kessinger, New York Times, KKTV.com, Denver Post-Gruesome Details, KOAA News, The New York Post, Beyond the Headlines: Watts Family Tragedy, "Cellmate Secrets" 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello everyone.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hey guys out there.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Sarah.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
And I'm Cole.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to Borrowed Bones, a podcast about
fucked up, interesting and toxicfamilies.
Today, we are talking about afamily massacre.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Oh, my favorite.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, yeah, you did not write about this one, this
was not in Michigan, it was inColorado.
Oh, and I was suggested thisepisode by my nephew, so I'm
doing it for him.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right, shout out to your nephew.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yes, I just want to jump right into it.
Of course we have an Instagram,we have a blue sky, blah, blah
blah Borrowed Bones podcastCheck it out.
But yes, I just want to getright into this one because when
I was looking into it it'sstill kind of in the internet
sleuth world.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh, web sleuths yes.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
And I wanted to see why and honestly I don't really
know why I think, becausesometimes the truth is simpler
than what you think.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Oh, is this like something that led to conspiracy
theories and whatnot?

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah a little bit yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Alright, so we're gonna start in the year 2018.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Oh, okay, cool.
More recent one.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
We are talking about the murder of Shanann.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Shanann.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yes, she has an apostrophe in the middle of her
name there.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Oh, okay, shanann.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
So Shanann Shanann Watts and her daughters Bella
and Celeste were murdered by theever-loving husband and father,
chris Watts.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Oh, this name does ring a bell for me.
I can't remember why 2018, so Iprobably saw something
contemporaneously about it, orsomething.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
There were a few.
I think there was onedocumentary on Netflix, for sure
, and then there's been a fewelsewhere.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yes, yes, yes yes, yeah, okay, I vaguely remember.
I think I watched it when itcame.
So if the murders happened in2018, the documentary must have
come out no later than like 21or so, so I think I watched it
one just boring night on netflixand oh, I just looked it up

(02:22):
american murder, the family nextdoor.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Okay, there we go.
It was on that, but okay, okay,so it didn't Just Boring Night
on Netflix.
Oh, I just looked it upAmerican Murder, the Family Next
Door.
Okay, there we go.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
I didn't know the title, so it was on that, but
okay.
Okay, so it didn't stick withme, I remember that it'll
probably come back to me asyou're saying things, but let's
dive in.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Mm-hmm.
All right, chris and ShanannWatts are both from North
Carolina.
They met in 2010 when Chrissent Shanann a Facebook friend
request and then he directlymessaged her or he slid into her
DMs.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
That wasn't even a phrase back in 2010.
It's weird to think back thatwe had Facebook in 2010.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
I remember learning about that phrase hearing the DM
and I was like what does?

Speaker 2 (03:06):
that mean I think I probably first heard it in a
song lyric or something.
I'm always behind on the lingo.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Now, shanann was the type of person to post
everything online.
Everything on Facebook.
Facebook videos.
Facebook live videos.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Oh, one of those people.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Mm-hmm Everything.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
I have has to be documented for everyone to see.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yes, and at that time Facebook was the big one.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, myspace was fallen by the wayspace.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, that was gone.
So when Chris DM'd her, she didend up making a video about
that, but later on, after theywere dating and she was
describing how that moment feltto her okay she said she was
surprised to get a dm from himand she thought that she would
never meet up with him.
But then she says well, onething led to another and eight

(03:57):
years later we have two kids, welive in colorado and he's the
best thing that's ever happenedto me it's about to be the worst
, hmm, mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
It's about to be the worst thing.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yep, November 3rd 2012,.
Chris and Shanann got marriedin Charlotte, North Carolina.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Okay, so still living on the East Coast.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
That's where they got married, and then, December
17th 2013, they welcomed theirfirst child, Bella, and she was
born in Colorado.
Oh, okay so I'm not sure whenthey moved to colorado.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Both of their families are from north carolina
so maybe there for like work orsomething, I'm not sure
opportunities right.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
I don't know why they moved there, but they moved to
colorado okay, and their firstdaughter was born in colorado
and her name is bella bellashenan was a great mom.
She was very happy to havebella.
Chris and shenan are in theirearly 30s here and shenan just
really wanted that family lifethat typical wholesome white

(04:56):
picket fences.
She really wanted that and shewas getting that, so she was
very happy.
And then in shenan's obituaryit reads that Shanann was so
excited to have her first babygirl.
She spent every minute thankingGod and taking care of her
precious gift that the Lord hadblessed her with.
She loved and cherished her.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
So she's religious too.
We can assume Her family.
Just the wording of that.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, I think religious in just the casual way
that it is here in america.
As I was saying it, I heard itcoming out of my mouth
religion's casual in america, um, just in the sense that
everyone thanks god and everyonefeels, blessed, and you know,
and everyone prays for everyone.
That's what I mean by thecasual christian.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
It was more casual back then yes, it was now we're
a day and a half away from thetheocracy, but uh anyway oh man,
june of 2015, the watts familyfiles for bankruptcy oh, do you
know what their business, whatthey did for careers?

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Oh yes, Both of them worked full time and Chris
worked for Anadarko PetroleumCorporation.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
And Shanann worked as an independent contractor for a
nutrition company called Level,and they sell Thrive Health and
Wellness products.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Is it like a multi-level marketing scheme?
I don't know, maybe not, Idon't know.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
I'm not sure.
I've seen Thrive as an actualbrand, so I don't know if it's
the same brand.
But she did travel when she wasworking, when she was in town.
She worked from home.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
And together they had a combined income of, I think,
$90,000.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
So they were doing all right, but I think that they
were maybe just living outsideof their means.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
They were struggling with credit card debt, student
loans, medical bills.
They also lived in an area thatthey had to pay HOA fees.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Oh, those will do me.
Those are, yeah, yep, hoas arethe devil.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yes, they're the devil.
July 17th 2015,.
Their second child was born, oh, so they're already struggling.
Yes, and another baby arrives,her name, high tension.
Yeah, her name is Celeste andshe goes by Cece.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Bella and Cece.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
All right.
Even though she was battlingwith lupus.
She said that she wasdetermined to stay healthy and
she wanted every moment withCece.
She wanted all of that.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
You said Cece was born in 2017?
.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
July 17th 2015.
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
All right, just make sure I have my ages correct by
the time we get to 2018.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
May 15th 2018, 2018.
So we're jumping ahead.
Shenan posts a 31 minutefacebook live video talking
about I know no, nothing againstno, no, no, no, anyone, she
truly felt this way, but yeah,in today's world personality
trait in general that I'm likewhat?

(08:06):
I think TikTok really ran awaywith this whole mom talk culture
thing and now it feels like amoney grab.
Even a few years ago 2018, itdidn't feel quite as fake.
So I do think Shanann wasauthentically trying to connect
with people and trying to fillthe void that everyone tries to

(08:27):
fill with social media.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, and you never can, nope, so don't try.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
We have an Instagram, though.
Well, shanann posts a 31 minuteFacebook live video and she
talks about the joys of life andhow she's happy to be where she
is.
She says I love waking up nowon Saturdays, being able to
enjoy my family.
And then she continues on tosay she's excited for the

(08:53):
upcoming summer and she believesthat everything happens for a
reason.
Chris is in the backgroundplaying with the girls during
this video, just kind of showinga wholesome moment in their
world.
The girls during this video,just kind of showing a wholesome
moment in their world.
One month later, june of 2018,shenan surprises chris with the
news that they're expectingtheir third child oh no I mean

(09:18):
it's been a few years since thebankruptcy okay, you know they
had that in 2015.
It's now 2018.
It's not a long time to havetwo kids after that.
I guess now that I say it outloud.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, I can imagine there's some pressure there,
shenan, I mean also sorry you'reokay, like the 30 I mean I'm
sure she was being genuine withthe video but also a 31 minute
video saying how happy you areis right like over compensation
and like what the like I wouldnever believe someone telling me

(09:52):
they're happy for 31 minutes.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
I will never believe that I do wonder what happens
when the phone, when the videosaren't being recorded?
Yeah not saying that they wereabusive or anything like that
because friends and family onboth sides were surprised by all
of this.
But still, just because you'renot in like a horrible abusive
relationship doesn't meanyou're'm a good person, without

(10:16):
a trace of irony.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
It's like well, no, you're not yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
I think from what I've read.
Anyway, I think that she didlove him but, it wasn't
reciprocated.
And she was feeling that and Ithink she really wanted to show
him.
Hey, I love you.
Look at how great this is.
This is wonderful.
Look at this.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
I've done everything for you.
I've made a perfect life foryou.
Why aren't you happy with this?
What more can I do?
Yes, we're speculating, but ohyeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
In the reaction video that Shanann sets up, she's
wearing a shirt that says oops,we did it again.
Once they find out that it's alittle boy, they name him Nico.
Okay With a c or a k c okaywhat if I said k I'm just
curious just pure curiosity.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, I'd like to know things okay if it was a k I
would think he's more greekdescendant maybe, but c I'm just
thinking, oh, they just likethe sound of it oh, okay yeah
maybe.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, june 17th, shanann posts another video
saying happy Father's Day toChris.
She said she was blessed tohave him and that he does so
much for them every day.
Also, in June of 2018, chrisbegins an affair with his
co-worker, nicole Kessinger.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Of course he does.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Mm-worker Nicole Kessinger, Of course he does.
Mm-hmm.
Nicole worked in theenvironmental department at
their At their petroleum.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Anadarko Petroleum, okay, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
At first it's just cute little conversations at
work, and then one month later,july, they start meeting up
outside of the office.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
The whole thing of guys having these prolonged
affairs, like it just seems likeso much work.
I know, like you're already.
You've been bankrupt once.
You've got two kids.
We got a third on the way Likeit just seems like another chore
.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Like you have enough.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, it's just like another thing I would have to do
.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah, maybe get the divorce.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Break up.
Yeah, it's just like anotherthing I would have to do.
Yeah, maybe get the divorce?

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, sure, but but now you're not doing anything in
secrecy.
That's one less step you haveto take.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, why people take on extra stressors?

Speaker 1 (12:34):
They call it a thrill .
I call it high cortisol.
It gives me wrinkles.
No thanks.
Chris and Nicole begin meetingup multiple times a week, like
three to five times.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, exactly To our point.
That's difficult to do.
I would rather just sleep thanhave an affair.
Anytime you would spend onhaving an affair.
Just go to sleep, because evenan affair is something you have
to work at.
I'm like I don't want to workanymore.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
I don't want to work anymore, I just want to sleep.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Keep rolling, okay.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
He tells Nicole oh, fuck, Okay.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
She tells Nicole oh fuck, I can't do this.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
No, he tells Nicole, the classic, that he's in the
process of getting a divorce andthat whole storyline.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Paperworks in the mail.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
In late June of 2018.
So we're kind of overlappinghere so yeah, his double lives
yeah, they're hanging out injuly.
Right now of having a fair latejune, shenan takes the kids to
north carolina for a six-weeksummer break to visit her family
without the husband, withoutthe husband, okay so he starts

(13:45):
this little love affair right atthe same time that she leaves.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Okay so it's a little less work than I, it's a little
more convenient when yourwife's just flat out gone for a
month and a half.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Chris does plan to meet up with them during the
last leg of their vacation, butthey're doing the bulk of it
separate.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, the dad at work is always planning to meet him
at the end yes, I'm workingreally hard I can't take all
that time off yep.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Once the family is in north carolina and chris is
still in colorado, chris tellsnicole that he is divorced.
It's done oh yeah, so nicole'sjust like truly a bystander.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
She doesn't know what's going on.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Nicole goes to Chris's home for the first time
on the 4th of July.
They also went on a date to anAmerican collection car museum.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
July 14th.
Then they spent the night atthe Great Sand Dunes on July
28th.
It's a national park, and allof this while the family's on
vacation, just waiting for himto join up.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Where is she, the other woman?
What does she think about thekids?
I'm assuming she knows he haskids.
He's a co-worker.
I mean, I don't know what hisstory was, but it's easy to say
she moved back to North Carolina.
She works remotely for her job.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
I mean, it's easy to cover up the divorce in that
moment.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
She visited the house .

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Hmm, now, maybe he redecorated, but I would think
it's going to be pretty.
I mean, I don't know, I'mpicturing like a typical family
house is going to have a woman'stouch.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
I'm guessing.
I think you could just pass itoff if I haven't had time yet
it's too fresh, very easy towrite off in this time frame
here july 31st, chris finallymeets up with his family in
north carolina, so they've beenapart for about a month, cool.
While they were all together innorth carolina, shenan was

(15:41):
texting with a few of herfriends and she was venting,
talking about how her marriageisn't doing well and she
mentioned tension between herand her in-laws.
Just overall, a distant, not agreat end of the vacation there.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Vacation has taken its toll, it's run its course.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, now, shanann is the type of person that
communicates with her closegroup of friends daily.
She sends them good morningtexts every morning like hello,
beautiful things like that.
When she was in North Carolina,she was messaging them quite a
bit about the distance betweenher and her husband.
She even sent a photo ofherself and him how they were

(16:23):
sitting.
He was looking away at the time, but they were sitting far
apart from one another.
Now, even though she knew andheavily suspected the affair,
she still was telling herfriends we'll work through it,
we'll go to therapy.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
She really was going to make this work, so she was
willing to forgive hisinfidelity.
Even before she really knewabout it.
Yeah, yeah, that's.
Wow, I don't know if you.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
She's devoted.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
To preemptively forgive someone, as they're
still doing the crime.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if she would be mad
knowing exactly.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
But yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Soon.
After their trip to NorthCarolina it is now August 9th
they're back home in Colorado.
Shanann has to go to Arizonafor a work trip.
Chris and Shanann had arelationship talk right before
she left, and Shanann messagedher friends that that was their
best talk yet.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
So she left optimistic.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
While she's on this work trip, Shanann meets up with
some friends that she knows inthe area and she's confiding in
them about her marital struggles, catching up on other things as
well when she receives an alerton her phone and she sees that
her card was charged at arestaurant for more than what it
would be typically if Chris gotfood there and it was kind of

(17:45):
an unusual charge and with hersuspicions already, she was like
what's going on?
And that's exactly what washappening.
Chris was at dinner with Nicoleafter he left the kids with a
babysitter.
He was supposed to be home withthe kids.
Oh shit, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Wow yeah, the audacity.
Yeah, so she's probably likewhat the fuck he's supposed to

(18:28):
be at home?
Why is he doing?
What's what's going on here?

Speaker 1 (18:29):
They don't really talk about it, though to my
knowledge OK, so suspicion she'straveling, yeah, August 13th is
when Shanann comes home.
It's around 2 am and one of herfriends picked her up from the
airport and dropped her off athome.
All right, that would be thelast time Shanann walks into her
house.
Last time she was seen aliveoutside of the house yes, okay.
In the early morning of August13th, chris wakes up Shanann as
he's getting ready for work.
He says he wants to talk abouttheir marriage and their future.
It's probably around 5 am atthis point.
Okay.
Chris tells Shanann about hisaffair and says their marriage

(18:52):
won't last.
Shanann then says he won't eversee the kids again.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Oh, exactly so she wasn't as forgiving as she
thought.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Right Good.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Chris then strangles Shanann to death.
Is this his account, or how dowe know that this is one of his
accounts?

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Okay, and it's pretty much a guideline.
We can follow this.
He adds details and takes someout here and there, but this is
the basis of it, but this is thebasis of it.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
I'm just taking what if it's his account?
Small grain of salt, justbecause obviously he's
self-serving and he's going totry to alleviate his guilt here
and there where he can tojustify certain things.
Even if he's confessing to it,he's still going to minimize
culpability a little bit.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, and he does this one yes, minimize
culpability a little bit.
Yeah, and he does this one yes,he, he does slowly add things,
take things out, certain details, but I don't want to give away
some details that he lets inlater.
I'll let the story tell itselfokay shenan says he won't ever
see the kids again.
And then chris strangles shenanto death, their daughter bella,

(20:05):
who's four years old at thetime.
She comes into the room andasks what's wrong with mommy.
Chris then wraps shenan in asheet and carries her to his
truck.
Chris then puts his two kids,bella and celeste, yep in the
back seat of his truck, wheretheir mom is laying on the floor

(20:28):
beneath their feet.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Jesus.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, chris drives an hour to his work site, he parks
and he drags Shanann out of thetruck and he buries her in a
shallow grave.
And he buries her in a shallowgrave.
Chris then returns to his truckwhere he smothers Cece with the
blanket and then takes her andputs her in one of the two oil

(20:57):
batteries.
They're big oil tanks, the bigdrums.
You have to get on a ladder andclimb up to the top.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Four stories tall, big round.
Okay, I can picture those.
You're usually in the middle ofnowhere.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Colorado, so I'm picturing desert-y, mountainous
yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
When Chris comes back to the truck, he proceeds to
smother Bella with the blanketand then takes her body and puts
it in the second oil battery.
And puts it in the second oilbattery and, as we said, these
oil batteries are big and youhave to climb up the stairs, but

(21:32):
at the top the hole that youuse to fill it up with is only
eight inches in diameter.
Wow, yeah, for this one anyway,I don't know how they all are
but this one in the reports saidthat that's how big it is Right
.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
All right.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, he had to push his daughters through that.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Damn, it's a cold bastard.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Now, as you and I mentioned just a second ago
Chris would confess, a few timeshe switched things up here and
there.
I gave us what is what happened.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Now, at this point, right here, this is what the
police know.
I thought it'd be easier tounderstand his changes if we
know what happened first.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Okay, no-transcript.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
At 1.40 pm on August 13th, shanann's friend Nicole
Atkinson, not the affair.
Nicole she calls the police tosay that she is concerned about
Shanann.
Friend Nicole is the one thatdropped her off from the airport
.
Now she called and textedShanann a few times that day and

(23:01):
never got a reply, which isweird.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, she's somebody who texts all day first thing in
the morning, kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yes, Her friends also realized that Shanann missed a
prenatal appointment thatmorning which they knew she
would never do, and she'salready told friends, some of
these friends, that she's havingmarital stress, marital issues,
Friend Nicole urged the policeto do a welfare check.

(23:30):
She was like I'm concerned.
I just need a welfare check.
In one of the documentaries Isaw that friend Nicole also
called Chris and told him hey,we need to get into your house.
We don't know where, shanann is.
She's not responding, and he wasa little relaxed about it.
He was just like oh, she wentto a friend's house with the

(23:52):
kids.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
They're like what friend?
Yeah, we're all the friends.
Okay, so that makes sense thatshe would call him first before
calling the cops.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
So then, that's when Nicole said if you don't come
here, I'm calling the cops.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
OK.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
And then Chris responded with we don't need to
get the police involved, whichalso kind of red flagged in.
Nicole's head of.
Why would that be your response?

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Why aren't you worried?
So friend Nicole called thepolice and shortly after the
police arrive, chris shows upokay and in this documentary you
can see the police body cam sothis is the visual you're having
now, or I was having, and I seechris come up and he's really
not looking at anyone in the eye.

(24:37):
He unlocks the door for thepolice to come in, but he shoves
himself front but he doesn'treally do anything.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
It's not like he's running from room to room.
I remember vaguely some of thisfootage from the Netflix
documentary.
I remember yeah, the body camfootage being a big selling
point to that.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, he's just being weird and I don't like to judge
people on how they deal withsituations like this because,
you never know, I'm someone wholaughs at funerals.
That's awful, but I am thatasshole because I don't know
what else to do.
It sucks.
Sorry, but this is just kind ofthe first of many.
He's acting a little weird,being being nervous.

(25:16):
Nicole is the one friend.
Nicole is the one who noticesall of Shanann's daily things,
still about, still everywhereHer purse, her phone her keys
her medicine that she took dailybecause of lupus Things like
that were just Stuff, she wouldnot leave behind for any reason.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
The shit you take out of the house with you is a
matter of course.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
And in the body cam footage you just see Chris
walking from room to room like,acting like he's looking around,
but Nicole notices this stuffand she's oh, her keys, her keys
.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Oh my God, her phone.
She would never leave.
And then she gets on her phoneright away to call her other
friends.
I mean, she's reacting the wayyou think someone would.
The I mean she's reacting theway you think someone would.
The more you find, the more youdon't know kind of the more
she's finding the deeper themystery becomes.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
And Chris is just.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Nonchalant.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, walking around, nervous looking.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
No, he's smooth yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
It's weird.
The police noticed that therewasn't much, really no evidence
of a struggle or violence, butthey did notice that there was
no sheets or covers on the bed.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
And it smelled very clean, like a little too clean.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, like you just did a cleaning, so they just
noted that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Then the police and Chris go to Chris's neighbor's
house.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Because the neighbor has a security camera, like a
ring camera that could seeChris's driveway All right.
It wasn't the best view, butyou could see some of it.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
The camera shows the truck back up to the garage, but
you can't see.
You can only seeris's feet,because the truck is on the
other side, so you don't reallysee anything else, just the
truck backing up.
And then, as I was watchingthis because it's still the
police body cam footage that I'mwatching this security camera

(27:17):
footage through, but I can alsosee chris and the neighbor
watching the security camerafootage.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
And I see Chris behaving oddly.
And I don't know Chris.
So I was thinking, okay, let melook at the neighbor to see how
he's looking at Chris.
And the neighbor looked weird.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Oh, it's a male neighbor too, yes, okay.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
And the neighbor looked weird and I was like, ok,
I wonder what's going to happenhere.
Chris walks away, he exits andthe neighbor looks quickly,
glances over at the officer andhe just leans up and whispers he
ain't acting right.
Oh and I was like oh shit,there it is.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
There it is so.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
the police don't have any solid evidence at all.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Right now, man, they're circling.
Are they asking about thechildren?
I mean the ones too young,unless they're in like preschool
or daycare?
Oh is, is he saying that shetook the kids?

Speaker 1 (28:12):
with her to the front .
She took the kid.
Yes, all right.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
So they're not like unaccounted for as far as yeah
they assume they're all togetherall together.
If they're all missing, they'reall together.
Yes, they put out like amissing persons report for all
of them, amber, all that stuffMm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
The following day, August 14th, Chris pleads for
his family's return on the localnews.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yep, Chris looks into the camera and he says Shanann,
Bella, Celeste, if you're outthere, just come back.
If somebody has her, justplease bring her back.
I need to see everybody again.
This house is not completewithout anybody here.
Please bring them back.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
At least he got their names right.
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
I watched that little clip as well and his eyes look
dead.
Again.
One of these things alone youcan't really judge, but
everything put together, I'msorry.
I'm looking at it by this point.
Like I said, there's missingpersons.
Now it's a couple days laterand we have the FBI in on this
and Colorado Bureau ofInvestigation is involved.
So we have quite a fewinvestigators looking at this

(29:20):
and they see another localinterview.
They go oh, let's watch.
Have quite a few investigatorslooking at this and they see
another local interview.
They go oh, let's watch yeah sothey watch and they noted that
chris was already talking abouthis family in the past tense
yeah they were like huh that'llget you all right.
He said that bella was going tobe starting kindergarten like.
Like was going to be doing this.
We were going to do that.
She was this way like what afucking idiot, so stupid, so

(29:43):
these investigators basicallyknow, but they can't do anything
yet.
August 15th 2018, so it's onlybeen a few days.
Yeah, chris agrees to apolygraph test idiot.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, if this guy had just this whole like if he just
kept his mouth shut, like letthe cops think all they want If
they can't prove it.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah.
So he took a polygraph test andhe failed.
They said he failed miserably.
I guess, typically the score Idon't know what it's called the
yes, typically the score I don'tknow what it's called the
threshold if you're lying or notis negative four.
So I think negative three isprobably like you're okay.
Negative four is you're out.
Yeah, he scored negative 18.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Oh yeah, I mean, it's all hoodoo, but still Well, it
worked.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, because after failing the polygraph test, he
asks to speak to his father.
So the investigators leave thepolice interview room and his
father comes into the policeinterview room, which is always
being recorded.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
yeah, he says that he killed her, that he killed
shenan this is why cops usepolygraph tests, not because
they actually are lie detectors.
They use it as a device to fuckwith the suspect's heads.
That's what they use it for.
And it works a lot of times.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
It works, even if you're innocent too, so don't do
it.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
The guy who invented the polygraph was for plants,
yeah.
And he said do not use this togauge truth or deception.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Y'all should look into that.
For real Polygraphs were madefor plants, and it's kind of
terrifying to know how sentientplants are.
Anyway, so Chris tells his dadthat he killed Shanann, and of
course he ends up tellingofficials as well, yeah, he says
he killed Shanann, but not hisdaughters.
So his first ever confessionwas wife, but not the kids.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
He knows he went too far.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
He knows that's too beyond the pale Yep.
He says he killed Shanannbecause he discovered that she
smothered their daughters.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
What.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Oh, okay, he's saying that she killed them.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
And then he was so enraged he killed her that he
killed her Yep.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Chris said that he saw Shanann smothering the girls
on the baby monitor.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Okay.
So they were smothered by thetime he got into the room and he
killed her you wouldn't rightcall the cops or something to be
like hey, I'm watching my wife,I'm gonna drive the hour home
from work and stop her myselfinstead of okay well yeah, I
mean the officials got what theywanted.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
They got him to leak open a little bit.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
At least he's gonna to go behind bars and now they
can just poke and poke and pokethose holes.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
They just wanted him to admit to something.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Because they knew they're like, just say one thing
.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
And they need the bodies.
There's no yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
August 16th.
They found all of the bodiesShanann, bella and Cece's.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
How did they find them?
Did he tell them where to lookin his confession?

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Okay, yes, he did tell them where the bodies were
and then, during one of the, hehas a few confessions throughout
, like six months.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, the accounts vary yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
And so one person at one point asked him why he put
Bella and cc in the oilbatteries and why he couldn't
just bury them all together orlike why would he do that?
And he just said that he was soenraged at the time and he
didn't want his wife to beburied with her kids oh yeah

(33:20):
just evil, just being kids.
Yeah, just evil, just beingevil.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
It's so impractical.
I mean you wonder what reallywas going through his head.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Like it seems like more work too.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, it's very odd, I mean clearly she didn't kill
her kids.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Clearly he did them all.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
But the disposal just seems so it doesn't make much
sense.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
Yeah, and then, on the same day, august 16th, was
Chris's bond hearing.
Okay, what's?

Speaker 2 (33:49):
It's like an arraignment.
They probably arrested him,bring him before a judge and the
judge has to set a dollar or abond amount for him to be
released.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Pending trial, all right.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Well, they denied bond, yeah, which is typical in
a murder case, let alone atriple murder case.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, the police also interviewed Nicole Kessinger
the affair on August 16th aswell.
This was a big day.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, fast-moving investigation.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
It's very fast.
She told the police.
Quote, quote.
I liked this quote.
I legitimately think his cheesewas sliding off his cracker
long before he met me I say thatall the time I've heard you say
that, yeah.
Yeah, I've never heard it inlike the wild before.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
I don't know where I got it from, like I heard it in
something or I read it somewhere, I don't know, but I've said it
for as long as I can recall.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Someone's just still mentally tweaked, or whatever
she was always very cooperativewith the police, nicole she has
nothing to do with any of this,so she's caught in the middle
yep, simply caught in the middle.
She's got nothing to do withany of it.
Also, I did read that chris wasinto um working out, but not

(35:02):
like bodybuilding.
But he was into like thosesupplements and those powders
and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Creatine shit, yes yeah, for real.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
And nicole in one of her interviews mentions that he
would have these patches, hewould and he would do more than
what the dose should be.
So I think he is hopped up on alot of yeah, these supplements
and yeah, yeah, roid rage andyes, yeah so there's that
happening in the background aswell, alec jones crow beaks and

(35:30):
chicken feet supplements yeah,august 21st, still in 2018, just
one week after chris waspleading for his family to come
home.
Yeah, chris was charged withthree counts of first-degree
murder and then an additionaltwo charges for the victims
being 12 or younger.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
He also faced another count for the unlawful
termination of a pregnancy, plusthree more counts of tampering
with a body.
Okay, I believe that's nine ifmy math is correct.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Wait a minute Three two.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
One for the unlawful termination?

Speaker 2 (36:14):
yeah, and then two counts of tampering with a body,
or three counts.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Three counts of first-degree murder.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Gotcha.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
Two charges for the victims being 12 or younger one
for termination of pregnancy andthen three for tampering with
body okay, yeah, so not sweetokay I got nervous.
September 1st a funeral is heldfor shanan, bella and celeste
in north carolina.

(36:42):
I normally put where thecemetery is um I didn't want to
find it.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
They, if they're that curious well.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
Shenan's family, unfortunately, was harassed
quite a bit after this for nogood reason by whom, like the
media or internet, web sleuthsoh yeah, we'll get into that at
the end.
So that's unfortunate, which issad, because Shanann, bella and
Cece are victims along withShanann's family.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Web sleuths doesn't seem like that complicated of a
case.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
It's not.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
It seems pretty open and shut as far as what happened
and who did it.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Like I said, he confesses different times, but
he never takes away his ownguilt of doing the murders.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
He never says somebody else came in.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
If anything, he might be wishy-washy with who killed
the kids.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
That makes sense for him.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
He killed his wife.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
He probably feels some guilt or shame whatever you
want to call it for killing hischildren.
Yes, and so he's trying tomitigate that in his own head.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah.
I don't know why the internethas to take things and make them
bigger than what they are.
This seems like something that,anyway, we'll get into it.
It seems like something thatran away At the funeral,
shanann's dad read and this isabout Shanann you are nothing
but pure love, always caring foreveryone.
You will always be daddy'slittle girl.

(38:08):
I thought that was really sweet.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
November 6, 2018,.
Chris pleads guilty to all ninecounts.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
There was a plea deal .
Shanann's family did not wanthim to face the death penalty.
Oh they didn't, they didn't andI that's in the courts were
like all right well, if hepleads, if he does this deal,
then we'll take the deathpenalty off the table.
So everyone agreed.
So, this is a very fast movingyeah that's, that's like the

(38:39):
fastest yes, like in like twoweeks.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
I know from like well , now it's november.
Now, november 6th is when hepleads guilty, but still it's, I
think, three months total neverseen a defendant plead guilty
to a homicide charge that quick,after not even close right but
alone plead as charged and thisis where the internet bullshit
comes into play, where people go.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
That never happens.
No, it really never does, butone person did do it because
we're humans and we haveoutliers and maybe he just feels
really, really bad.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Plus, it's a good deal for him.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
It's a good deal for him.
He's not going to die.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
I guarantee his defense attorney was like he has
no defense.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
He has no defense.
So all any attorney who couldtell him is you're.
We just got to negotiate lifewithout parole against the death
penalty.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
That's all we have to work with.
Yeah, that's all we're goingfor.
Well, okay, here we are here.
It is like we have.
You've confessed.
There's no other suspects.
There's.
All the evidence points to you,there's nothing and the victims
, like if you go in front of ajury with two children a father
accused of strangling his twochildren even you know presumed
innocent whatever.
But not really Not.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, they're not going to look kindly on you.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, that's for sure I mean uphill battle to be
found not guilty.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
So he was smart to take this deal, yeah, and so
Internet web sleuth, whatever.
People can just chill.
He was smart to do this andthat's why he did it.
That's the answer, because it'sthe best case scenario for him
in this moment.
Also, I did notice and I don'tknow if this would lead to any
conspiracy theories in anyone'sminds when I was trying to look

(40:14):
for, like, the transcripts ofthe court trial and to see the
actual government documents ofthings.
The links errored out.
I wasn't able to follow thelinks, but I did read in the
fine print that it saidavailable upon request.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, which is typical, for, like, court
transcripts are.
I've not, I mean, I don't knowwhat they're in Colorado, but
the whole transcript is neverjust usually published.
This one they might've donebecause it's a high profile one,
but it's probably is never justusually published.
This one they might have donebecause it's a high-profile one,
but it's probably just put on alink that expired.
Plus courts change theirservers all the time.
They get new websites, theyupload, they transfer materials

(40:55):
and sometimes the old, whateverwas on the old system just isn't
transferred over.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
It's not a grand conspiracy.
There's no cover up there.
You can get it if you want toFOIA.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
If you want to, yeah, you can get it you can probably
just call the courthouse andask for it, and they'll probably
just charge you whatever thefee is to mail it.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
True and print it.
That's it Right.
So I don't again.
I don't think there's.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
And the police are saying yeah, what do web sleuths
think?
That somebody, that he's like apatsy, that somebody else
killed the family and he's soscared that what are they?

Speaker 1 (41:26):
thinking.
I didn't see any.
I didn't go to any of thosewebsites and there's apparently
some Facebook pages about it,but I don't have a Facebook so I
didn't look.
I think it's more just thestupid theory.
I didn't read any because Idon't care.
This is the story I researched,the real one.

(41:47):
November 19th, chris issentenced to life in prison,
officially.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Without possibility of parole, I guess.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Without parole.
Yeah, the judge that sentencedChris.
He said that this is quotesentence Chris.
He said that this is quoteperhaps the most inhumane
vicious crime I have handled outof the thousands of cases that
I have seen.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Whenever I get a judge saying something along
those lines, that's sentencing.
That's, like always, my lead.
The judge is like you know.
They've never seen something asheinous or vicious in their 12
years on the bench, or they'venever seen a crime as brutal in
their 40 years of being anattorney.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah, it always does leave a mark when the judge says
something that big yeah.
The judge issued five lifetimesentences, with an additional 84
years for the unlawfultermination of the pregnancy and
the disposing of the bodies ofhis family.
Yeah, why can't we just sayhe's got life?

(42:48):
I don't understand the 84 years.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
In paperwork, it's just it's.
There's literally a rubricwhere they add up points to
determine the number of years,or at least in Michigan it's
down to months.
Oh determine the number ofyears, or at least in michigan
it's.
It's down to months, oh, andit's just just a formality to be
like.
These are literally the numberof months that he will be in
prison, even if it clearly justoverspends a lifespan.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Well, I guess you gotta be safe.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
It's just yeah, yeah, okay yeah I always thought it's
comical too, but it is For thebooks.
Life plus 50.
Life plus like whatever.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
All right Sure, if I make it beyond life, add the 84.
Sure.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Some people have gotten sentenced to multiple
death penalties.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Ted Bundy had three death penalties.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Well, those were in different states though.
No, no, they were all inFlorida.
Oh shit, three times.
Also, in November, shanann'sfamily filed a lawsuit against
Chris for wrongful death.
They would go on to win thelawsuit for millions of dollars,
of course they knew theyweren't going to see it.
They just didn't want Chris tobe able to make any money off of
this in the future.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
I mean five lifetimes in prison.
He's going to write a book atsome point.
Right, there is.
But inmates cannot personallyprofit off art literature,
whatever they.
That is about their crimes.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
So there is that true , maybe they just really wanted
to make sure he could make anymoney ever.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
I mean still, he can still make money and earn money
in prison, but he just didn'twant to have any of it.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, but shortly after chris incarcerated, he had
to be moved to another facilityfor safety concerns.
Too many people knew him in thelocal prison.
They hated him because ofmurdering his daughters.
That's what did it.
He was like bottom of the totempole.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
And then who do you have?
Like, obviously you have otherinmates to be afraid of, but
then who do you ask to defendyou?
The guards who?

Speaker 1 (44:44):
are going home to their families every day.
You are like.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Chris was moved to Dodge Correctional Facility in
Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
A high security prison.
He was moved to a differentstate.
Holy shit.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
I've never heard of him.
Really I mean I'm assuming hewas convicted on state level
charges in Colorado, not federalcharges?

Speaker 1 (45:06):
It all happened in Colorado.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah, there's no interstate.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
I don't yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
That's weird.
For me to move to Wisconsinthey might have had like a.
He can't be held anywhere inColorado, he's too well known.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
I guess inmates would like.
This is just one little tidbitthat I read.
I'm sure there was worse, butone thing I read was inmates
would constantly, daily, yellsuggestions for him on how to
kill himself.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah, that makes sense Just constantly.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
So that's just a mental mind fuck.
February 18th 2019,investigators felt they could
get more out ofris because atthis point, he still hasn't said
he's killed his daughters ohokay, we just know this yeah,
but he's only sticking by.
He killed shenan, so they'relike we just want more

(45:53):
information.
I don't know why they keepgoing at him.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Need it like you don't need.
He's already been convicted ofhim.
It doesn't matter if he did not, I mean murderers deny killings
all the time, and so can getconvicted, and the cops don't go
back and they're like so why'dyou do it?

Speaker 1 (46:05):
I know.
And they found the bodies, yeah.
So I don't really know why theywent back to look, but they did
yeah and they visited chris andthere was a five-hour interview
damn, where he does confess tokilling his daughters and
disposing of their bodies.
Okay, chris said, quote thiswas like the epitome of being

(46:27):
angry, the epitome of showingrage, the epitome of losing your
mind.
I'd say so.
Chris also said that when he wasin the truck after he killed
Cece and he was going back forbella, that bella asked him if
he was going to do the samething to her as he did to cc and

(46:49):
he said yes.
And she tried to fight back andher last words were daddy, no
damn.
Chris also talked about killingShanann.
He said on the morning ofAugust 13th he woke Shanann up
and he was sitting on top of her, straddling her as she was

(47:12):
lying on the bed on her back andthey were discussing their
marriage and their future.
And then Shanann confronted himabout the affair.
Chris denied it.
He told her that their marriagewasn't working and it wouldn't
last and that he didn't love her.
That's when Shanann told Christhat he would never see the kids
again, and then that's when hestrangled Shanann.

(47:35):
He's very consistent withShanann saying he'll never see
the kids again.
I don't know if she said thator not, but either way, why
would killing them well thatactually she might.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
That kind of makes sense a little bit for his, give
some context to his actionsthat maybe he's then destroying
the kids too because they're soimportant to they, were so
important to her and that you'regonna take them from me?
No, no, I'll just destroy thementirely.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Yeah, destroy all of them.
It's not rational.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
but I could see that train of thought of you know,
like, why do you?
You know your girlfriend'sgoing to leave you, so you kill
her If she can't be with me.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
no one kind of like, well, you lose her.
It's strange.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah, I don't know, does crime lead to stupidity or
does stupidity lead to crime?

Speaker 1 (48:27):
I don't know.
After he strangled his wife,Bella walks into the room asking
what's wrong with mommy.
That's when Chris then wrapsShanann in the sheet, drags her
down the stairs and puts her inhis truck.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
It's so bizarre that he drove with them still alive.
There's that cooling off periodof it's approximately an hour
drive, you said from.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
What's he telling them on the way?

Speaker 1 (48:51):
I'll tell you.
Okay, chris says that on thedrive there for that hour he was
contemplating killing himselfafter he killed everyone else.
He did look back at one pointand he just saw Bella and Cece
like comforting each other.
They were crying and just Bellawas a really good big sister is
one thing that I read quite abit and she was always helping

(49:14):
Cece.
He said he didn't want them toknow that Shanann was beneath
them, so he did put her in twotrash bags and the sheet.
So I don't think they knewuntil the last second that that
was their mom.
Not that it makes it any better, but yeah, there wasn't much
thought in his head, though.

(49:35):
He just was angry and ragefuland the epitome of rage.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
That's what was going through his head Again, this
going on, if he killed them allthere, yeah, that doesn't make
sense, right like you, you didplan things, you did think about
them not wanting to recognizethat the item under their feet
was their mom, so you did takesteps to prevent that, which is
a degree of, again, compassionor something yeah so like it's

(50:00):
not just a Hulk out.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Wolverine Berserker rage.
I can believe the first one.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yeah, he does say that he felt like something else
was controlling him that day.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Yeah, that's giving you.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
During the interview, chris is in his cell and the
investigators see pictures ofshenan and the kids all over,
like his walls.
I don't know how many he has,because multiple pictures of
them.
Chris said that he talks tothem every day and he reads
books to his little girls oh,that's audacious of anything
that they would want to hearfrom him yeah, exactly when he

(50:42):
was talking about the affairwith Nicole Kessinger, he
admitted to it.
He did finally say like yep, Iwas having an affair, because he
goes back and forth withadmitting that.
But I think finally now he'slike yes, that happened, might
as well.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Nothing to lose now.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
But he makes it a point to say that she pursued
him, so I guess it's OK.
Yeah it's okay.
Yeah.
Chris then adds in thisinterview that he resented
shenan for taking him away fromhis family and he goes on to
paint shenan as controlling andtheir family had money issues
because of her and her spending,and he just starts to blame her

(51:16):
for him killing her.
I guess yeah typical.
Yeah, but he never said why hekilled them like really why.
I think that's what some ofthese investigators were wanting
.
They wanted the why they'relike, but why you had normal
marital issues.
You didn't have anything morethan that.
You could have just left youdon't need the way.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
That's where.
That's where all conspiraciescome from.
Conspiracy theories of it makessense to me.
It's the why Things just happen.
You don't like the workings ofanyone's mind are indecipherable
and like what rationale couldthis guy say that would make you
go?
Oh okay, I get it now.
Thanks.

(51:56):
True Like that's what I'malways wondering when people are
like, well, what's the motive,like what answer are they going
to give you?
That's going to totally clickfor you to go.
Okay, I would do the same thingin that situation yeah there
isn't the why you can livewithout who, what, where, when,
how that's what I care aboutthat's a good point to take.
Yeah, because you're not goingto know asking why presupposes

(52:17):
that there's a answer to begiven yeah and there isn't.
I don't think there is yeah Ithink it makes in his head Just
like everyone's actions makesense to themselves.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Yeah, so we don't always know the why, or we never
know the why and we have tostop trying to figure it out.
You typically just hurt thefamilies at that point.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Yeah, that's all you do, yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
I did find a recent documentary that was uploaded to
YouTube about six months ago,but I've looked at the original
airing of this documentary on TVand that was in 2021.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
This is one of the more recent things I could find
on him, and this documentarytalks more about his life behind
bars, and there is yet anotherconfession he does.
I don't really care about him,but it is kind of nice to know
how he's struggling, though, sowe'll talk about it a little bit
.
In his first prison, like Isaid, was offered suggestions to
kill himself.
He needed constant protection,but wasn't really getting it,

(53:13):
and early on, he was isolatedfor 23 hours a day.
He was only allowed out to eatand exercise.
Yeah, it didn't last forever,but he was like that in the
beginning.
After he moved to the highsecurity prison in wisconsin, it
was okay at first.
Eventually, people did realizewho he was, though, and he had

(53:34):
guards around him pretty much 247 whenever he was out of his
cell yeah sure, even the aryangang didn't want him.
Right, he did get protectionfrom those.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Those guards?

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Yeah, I think just maybe a higher security.
They had more people, they hadmore eyes everywhere.
Just more staff.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Even though he was going through all this not
really having the best time inprison he was getting fan mail.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Of course.
Yes, kill my babies too.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Yep, they didn't believe that he did it, even
though he admitted it and hepled guilty.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
I'm guessing he was a fairly good looking guy.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Average, Very average .
I mean he was thin.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
He looked kind of healthy.
I'm guessing he had a full headof hair.
I mean the most things I.
He wasn't ugly, I'm guessing.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Average looking, I guess.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, average An averagelooking guy.
Even though he pled guilty,these women still thought there
was something wrong with thetrial.
They thought it was weird howfast it went Only three months
with a case like this, normallytrials like this last years.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
There wasn't even a trial, he pleaded.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Or, yes, normally cases like this last years,
there's one woman that was inthis documentary, that was the
main fangirl.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
She was saying that those were her reasons.
Like well, it's weird to usthat, like the case only lasted
three months and there's noactual evidence that says that
he did, I'm like except for himsaying he did it.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
How many cases do you follow?
To say that this is so rare.
What's what's your average,what's the norm for you?
How many cases have you lookedat to say that this is?

Speaker 1 (55:02):
unusual.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Shut up.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
The interesting thing , though, is that Chris doesn't
respond to this fan mail.
He throws most of it away.
This one woman he didn't throwher letter away, he gave it to
his cellmate.
They ended up having like aweird relationship, but as soon
as he, as soon as the cellmategot out of prison and they tried
to do like an actualrelationship, she left because
she was just using him to talkto Chris.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
If I was a cellmate, I would have just written as if
I were Chris.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
It was so silly, so stupid.
Through all of this fan mail,though, there was one letter
that came through that was notfan mail.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Hate mail.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
Not hate mail.
Someone that did say I believeyou're guilty, but I still want
to hear your story.
Okay, she's an author.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Ah, here we go.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Sherilyn Cato.
I don't know the name C-A-D-L-Eis her last name and I never
looked up how to pronounce it.
I'm just realizing right now,so I hope it's pronounced Cato.
Her first name is Sherilynthough.
Okay, so we'll call herSherilyn.
She was touched by the case inthe way that, like you and I,
would be touched, not in a fanway.

(56:14):
She also was interested in thewhy and wanted more details
because he wasn't really givingtoo much, so she was curious and
wanted to write about it.
He didn't respond right away.
She had to write him a fewletters and then finally he
responded.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
And he said in his letter to her that he wanted to
clear his wife's name.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
What does that mean he didn't want people to think
that Shanann killed herdaughters.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Oh, that's right, I forgot that a few people thought
he did that yeah yeah, I'mgonna clear her name of the
thing that no one believedexactly, yeah, yes okay, yeah, I
was like what was she accusedof?
Oh yeah, I forgot that.
He is dumbass accused.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
He thinks yep yeah, no one believes you, but but
okay, sure it's like theopposite of the Jared Leto
accusations.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Of course we believe you Like, obviously.
We're just waiting for thoseallegations to come out.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Yeah, I know, no one's even surprised anymore.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Yeah, anyway, I thought those allegations were
made years ago.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Yeah, I know, I just assumed.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
So Sherilyn visited Chris for the first time in
April of 2019.
And their communication lastsbetween April and October of
2019.
Chris, when they met, chrisadmitted quite a bit to Sherilyn
.
He said that when Shanann toldhim about her pregnancy he was

(57:40):
not happy.
He didn't want the kid becausehe wanted to do his affair with
nicole why did you get herpregnant then?

Speaker 2 (57:47):
exactly that's what I thought too.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
You know how it works , stop well, he's stupid, so
maybe he doesn't yeah, chrissaid that he tried poisoning
shenan to induce a miscarriagewhen they were in north carolina
together um you should read hisBible.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
There's a recipe in there that God gives on how to
do that.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Oh yeah, that's right .
God gives a recipe on abortion.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
How to make a tea.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Well, he was drugging her with oxycodone.
Oh, so you know that's nice.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Here's a drug.
I don't know what it'll do, butit's a drug.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Yeah, she just got very sick and that was it.
I mean good that you know shedidn't have a miscarriage.
I mean anyway, but yes, andthen, as Chris continues to talk
to Sherilyn, he starts sayinghow he's a changed man, he's
found God, it's weird how God'salways hiding in prison.
Always in prison it.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Would have been a lot more useful to you before you
did the thing that sent you toprison.
But God's tricky like that.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Chris also starts talking about some demonic
things and saying that it wassomething dark or some dark
creatures or evil spirits thatwere around him making him do it
.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Oh, he's pulling a Berkowitz.
He said that he was maybepossessed or he was influenced
um maybe I was, and well, he waskind of just alluding to shock
and approach all these littlethings and sherilyn could tell
that he was wanting the book togo that direction, that he was

(59:19):
possessed or he was demonicallyinfluenced or something?

Speaker 1 (59:23):
yes, she did not believe him at all and she did
believe that he probably foundgod because he was like quoting
scripture.
I mean, at the very least heread the bible a lot, but the
demonic bit not at all.
And again on the internet Ifound a lot of people like on
facebook and Reddit, not actualarticles, but people just saying

(59:46):
he was possessed or there weredemons in the house, or you know
, amity that like and I'm likewhere is that story coming from?
Because this is really all hesays and then that's it.
He doesn't like I don't know,he doesn't swear by it, he just
I think he saw an opportunity torewrite his history and that's
it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
I'm not responsible yeah I'm just as much a victim
as they were.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
This was done to me yeah, very strange you know, all
villains start as victims yeah,yeah, after their initial visit
they maintained contact vialetters and sherilyn mentions in
a documentary that I watched,that the letters these inmates
could write that they did write,whenever they're leaving the

(01:00:28):
facility they're not read oropened.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
I don't know if that's normal or not, but All
incoming mail is supposed toIncoming is she did say incoming
was looked at, but not outgoing.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
I didn't look into this honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
I don't actually know about that.
I'm taking her word for it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Let me know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
I guess, Right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
In these letters, chris begins to confess to
Sherilyn.
He said that he has decided tofree himself, which is why he's
unloading.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
I was hoping he was going to literally free himself.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
No, no, no, no, no, no Spiritually.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Oh well, physically Unburden his soul.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Chris admitted to Sherilyn in one of his letters
that the murders werepremeditated.
Ah Just like you weresuspecting.
He says that he put Bella andCece to bed and then he just
waited because he knew that thatwould be the last time he
tucked in his kids.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
He said he could not stop himself from what he knew
was going to occur the followingmorning.
That morning, when Shanann camehome, chris said that he had
sex with Shanann in order todisarm her.
He then leaves the room and goesto Bella and stacy's room where
he smothers them oh, so hesmothered them first he says he

(01:01:50):
smothers them so they wouldn'thear him murdering shenan okay,
damn, this is yeah yeah, henever brought up the affair in
this letter, but he does saythat him and shenan get into an
argument about marriage andtheir future and that he doesn't
love her, and then Shanann saidhe would never see the kids

(01:02:11):
again and then that's when hestrangled her.
He continues to say in thisletter how he knows how to choke
and where the jugular vein isand he knows how to press on it
to cut off oxygen to the brain,and he said that Shanann blacked
out quickly.
He also said that he druggedher again that night too or that

(01:02:35):
morning with the oxycodone.
And this was interesting to mebecause I didn't look this up, I
didn't think about it until thelast minute.
I'm wondering they didn't do anautopsy on her because the
police were speculating that shewas drugged, because there were
no defense wounds on her, likeshe didn't look like she fought.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
What they probably did, because all homicides had
to have an autopsy done, butthey don't necessarily test for
every drug.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Okay, that's not specifically requested, like
they test for the big ones, youknow alcohol, morphine, cocaine
okay but if something's reallyspecific that they'd like know
to look for that okay and theyso maybe they didn't have okay,
because I saw police being likeno, it's, we're pretty sure that
she was drenna.
Like pretty sure, what do youmean?

(01:03:22):
Like well, there's no defensewounds on her.
Like she didn't look like shefought back at all yeah, so she
must have been somehow sedated.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Scratches something.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Yeah, yeah it's weird , though, because he recants
this piece of information, thedrugging her like.
He goes on and off, but that'swhy.
I said like his details go backand forth.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
I don't know story of his, I believe, between this
one of killing the kids firstwell, hold on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
There's more to this story.
Okay, so he's in the bedroomwith shenan.
As chris is in his room withshenan, he realizes that the
kids are awake oh and he says inhis letter he didn't know how
they woke back up because hethought they were dead.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
They both woke.
He mistakenly killed both ofthem.
Right, miss Irf.
I should say, failed to killboth of them.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Yes, Right, I don't know.
I mean it's all I don't.
He says smother, so I'massuming with a pillow?

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Yeah, not with a not.
He says smother, so I'massuming with a pillow, yeah,
not with a.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
So I'm guessing, if that is true, it's possible that
he waited until they juststopped.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Yeah, which they're still breathing.
After you lose consciousness,you have to keep it for a few
more minutes for your newflatline, right, and if he's not
looking at their faces and hecan't see them.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
So I don't know, I don't know.
So I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
He says.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
He then takes everyone into his truck, like we
know, and he goes to the worksite, proceeds to go through and
he keeps his story the samethere.
In his letter, though, he didwrite that he rolled Shanann out
of the truck.
I don't know just the crass wayof talking about it.
And as he was doing that, thegirls were asking what's wrong
with mommy?
What are you doing with mommy?

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Okay, so they were still alive the whole way to the
site.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Yes, yes, the story to the site is all the same.
He just gives a little more ofwhat the girls were doing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Now we can probably assume that it was premeditated,
at least to some level.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
He tried killing the kids initially.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
I think he did drug Shanann.
If nothing else, I think hedrugged her ahead of time and
knew that he was going to do it.
I think he knew.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Doesn't get much more premeditated than drugging
someone.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
Right.
Sherilyn said after all of this, after she learned of all this,
that he just wanted to killthem and have his new life.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Yeah, that's what she got from all of it yeah, he's
having an affair, he'sfrustrated with the life he has.
It's just for whatever reasonhe chose this as opposed to
divorce yep, it's stupid, itdoesn't make sense but it's what
happened, yeah yeah, it'sexactly what happened and he
admits it.
And yeah, the details get alittle foggy, but that's what he

(01:06:07):
did and, like I say, the personthat's statistically most
likely to kill any one otherperson is their spouse.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
So chris is still continuing his multiple life
sentences in dodge correctionalfacility in wisconsin.
He's only like seven years intothat right now, but he did ruin
lives that are still alivetoday.
Like I mentioned, shanann'sfamily had to deal with quite a
bit of harassment from theseinternet people coming in and

(01:06:34):
thinking that they know best,and to the point where they were
calling her dad.
They were commenting on things,they finding things.
He had to make a publicannouncement to say please stop,
please leave us alone.
We're mourning, we were tryingto live our lives and I just I

(01:06:54):
don't get why people have to dothat.
If you have an opinion, great,keep it to yourself.
There's strength in shutting upeveryone has main character
syndrome.
No one cares about you.
No one.
No one cares about me.
It's freeing you can dowhatever you want.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
We're a nation of sociopaths.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
God.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
That all want the whole world to revolve around
them.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Well, on top of this, Nicole Kessinger.
I saw two different things withher.
She, for sure, has changed hername and moved.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
That's both theories, but one of them is that she did
that on her own because she wasgetting harassed and messed
with so much, which probably.
The other one is that thepolice helped her put her into
witness protection.
Either way, she's gone.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
She's out of this whole world.
She was like fuck this, I don'tknow.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
I had nothing to do with this.
Jeffrey Dahmer's brother didthat too.
He changed his name and no oneknows where he's at.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Sherilyn Cato published her book that is
titled the Murders ofChristopher Watts.
I did not read it, I just foundout about it kind of at the end
here.
I'm assuming it says a lot moreof what he said.
It's probably up and down quitea bit.
I will say the most I got fromall of this was the friendship.

(01:08:09):
I don't know where Chris wouldbe without Shanann's friends to
call the police and say, hey,what's going on?
Because it was Nicole Atkinsonand there were other friends too
that were calling and helpingwith as well.
Nicole was the one that livedcloser and could be kind of the
boots on the ground, but herother friends were all a part of
it too and they were all likethis is wrong, this is messed up

(01:08:30):
.
And they stepped over Chris andthey said no, our friend is
missing and you're not helping.
Step aside.
And it was a group of womenthat the police listened to and
they did their due diligence,like it worked out.
But I'm assuming that chrisprobably was going to go to work
that day.
He already started the cleaningprocess.
Yeah, come home, maybe get ridof everything else.

(01:08:52):
And then I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
I mean I think eventually he would have yeah
been found out because he seemsa little dumb yeah, because how
is he going to explain just hisfamily?

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
gone yeah without.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
Apparently he was too stupid to even bring his wife's
like wallet and purse rightcell phone with him when he got
rid of her body.
So I mean, how's he, how's theguy going to explain his family
just disappearing with in thethin?

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
air like.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
She doesn't turn up anywhere.
She's close to her family.
She doesn't have her wallet.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
She's never spending yeah, money like nothing her
medicine yeah, like I probablywould have taken long for
probably not, but I think Idon't know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
I just really like I'm not discrediting the friends
.
Yeah, really step in and yeah Ijust I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
I have friends that I've checked in on before, even
regulars.
At certain jobs I've worked atI've had the police do welfare
checks.
They haven't been around in awhile because I am extra and I
will always be extra, becausethe one time I'm not you're
gonna die always gonna be extra,don't care.
But that's it.
That's chris watts.
There's nothing paranormal,nothing other than a man who,

(01:10:01):
despite his best, efforts,didn't know how to handle his
emotions and just get a divorceguys.
Yeah, just get a divorce.
That's it.
Well, see you guys next time.
I don't know how to sign off onthat.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Yeah, we'll see you in the internet.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
Yeah, we're never going to see you because we're a
podcast, but yeah, I guess,follow us on all the things
instagram, blue sky.
Oh, if you do have suggestionson any stories or any families.
They don't yeah cases or justinteresting families crime.
Yeah, I'm fucked up in anon-criminal way, yeah yes, I
want to do more interesting onesthat are less true crimey.

(01:10:42):
I want to be a little moreuplifted, I guess.
So send in your suggestions,comment or leave a message on
Instagram, or scroll downwherever you're streaming right
now, and you can click on ouremail address and send us that
way.
All right, I think that's it.
Yeah, said it all.
Let's go, let's go Bye.