August 29, 2024 • 18 mins
Ever wondered how to turn difficult client interactions into successful collaborations? Discover the secrets to managing unorganized clients, conflicting instructions, and never-ending revisions in this engaging episode of Boss Responses. Host Treasa Edmond and guest Jessica Walrack share their experiences and frustrations, offering actionable strategies to guide clients towards providing clear instructions, setting boundaries, and knowing when it’s time to seek better-fitting clients.
They also share insights into the importance of clear and effective client relationships from the outset, and how to position yourself as a subject matter expert while fostering equal partnerships with your clients. Tune in for practical advice that every freelancer and business owner needs to hear!
About Our Guest
Jessica Walrack is the founder of All Things Freelance Writing—a community that helps freelance writers build their ideal businesses through its blog, weekly jobs newsletter, and other resources. She’s also a freelance finance journalist with 11 years of professional writing experience. You can find her work regularly featured in national publications including US News and World, CBS News MoneyWatch, Newsweek, and Wallstreet Journal BuySide.
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Thank you for taking time out of your busy day to listen to Boss Responses. This podcast is a passion project that comes from years of helping freelancers shape a business that supports the lifestyle they want.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Treasa Edmond (00:00):
Welcome back to the Boss Responses podcast.
Have you ever had one of thoseconversations where, at the end
of it, you're like, wow, I was alittle bit passionate about
that.
Well, this may be one of thoseepisodes for me, but it's a good
episode.
Jessica and I are answering aquestion about what happens, or
what should you do, when youhave clients who are driving you
(00:21):
crazy.
The person who asked thequestion today is dealing with
three such clients, all of themat the same time.
Jessica and I cover a couple ofdifferent topics while we're
answering the question, and Ithink that they're all pretty
great.
We talk about ideal clients,client management and when it's
time to just let go and findbetter clients.
(00:43):
It's a little bit of a longerepisode, but I think the time
spent was well worth it, so havea listen and let me know what
you think.
If you're a freelancer, businessowner or anyone who deals with
clients, you're in the rightplace.
I'm your host, teresa Edmond.
I've been dealing with clientsand running my business for
(01:03):
nearly two decades and in thattime.
I've been dealing with clientsand running my business for
nearly two decades and in thattime, I've dealt with my share
of doubt, imposter syndrome andnot knowing what to say when a
client asked a question I wasn'tready for.
I created this podcast toempower you with the boss
responses you need to grow yourbusiness.
Each week, my guest co-host andI will bring you five episodes
(01:24):
packed with practical insights.
Monday through Thursday, weanswer your questions, and
Fridays we dive deep to explorehow our co-hosts embrace their
role as the boss of theirbusiness.
Welcome to Boss Responses.
We are back for day four withJessica Walrack and Jessica.
(01:45):
I have the question for youtoday.
It says my clients are drivingme crazy.
We've all been there, right?
Yeah, so I have three mainclients I work with all agencies
.
Lately, I seem to be receivinga lot of conflicting or unclear
instructions from my contacts,which makes it difficult to
deliver the final product theyactually want.
This means more revisions andmore frustration for them and
(02:07):
for me.
I've never had this problembefore.
All three are on the low end ofthe average on rates, but they
give me plenty of work, so itbalances out.
This is a theme this week.
Yeah, there's been turnover atall three and my contacts at two
of them are new.
The third contact has a newmanager and nothing we do seems
to please him.
Is there a way I can stop themadness, or am I out of luck?
Jessica Walrack (02:33):
Well, first of all, I'm so sorry you're going
through that.
I've totally been in a similarsituation and, yeah, it's hard.
You can take on the role ofleading clients and giving them
feedback on what you need, onhow to give clear instructions,
like I've had clients I see thisa lot with like brand new
(02:54):
startups.
They just got funding andthey're ready to go ahead, but
they just don't have very muchinfrastructure.
They're not that organized yet,and so they'll be like, yeah,
can you write this blog?
And then they have six peopleon there giving feedback and all
different conflicting opinions,and so at that point I can say
(03:16):
you need to have a point personwho everybody talks to, and they
put together all of thefeedback and then they deliver
it to me and I'll give you tworevisions that are included in
the price, and then, if you wantmore, we can talk about that
afterwards and it will be anadditional cost, and so you can
lead them in that way.
Honestly, when I start to seethings like this, I just start
(03:37):
looking for a new client that Ican replace them, because a lot
of times they need to just workthat out.
Their stuff isn't ready to hirefreelancers yet.
They're doing the best they can, but they're not organized and
then it takes too much of yourtime and then stressful.
It's not good for your health.
Maybe you end up workingthrough dinner when you're
(03:57):
supposed to be cooking for yourfamily or other things, and it's
just one thing can lead toanother.
So I would say, like I talkedabout on day one, this is one of
those things where you get tothe end of the project and
you're like okay, feedbackwasn't cohesive and organized,
there was too many back andforth revisions, manager isn't
(04:18):
grateful, doesn't seem trulyhappy with my work.
Maybe this just isn't a goodfit.
Nothing personal, it justdoesn't sound like it's a good
fit because there are clientsout there who are going to love
what you're doing.
They're going to write you backand just be like I am so
grateful for you and make youfeel amazing and you're not
going to have all these kinds ofrevisions.
I think you can try to take theguidance role, if you want,
(04:41):
first, or you can note thesethings for the future and keep
prospecting to look for clientsto replace them.
I know it's not always easy tojust drop someone If you have a
space, you have bills to pay andthese things but I would
recommend starting to look forsomebody a better fit.
How about you, teresa?
Treasa Edmond (05:00):
No, I absolutely agree, and I was going to start
by talking about clientmanagement, but now I'm going to
talk about the ideal clientfirst.
Not every client is your idealclient and sometimes you have to
work with people who are notyour ideal clients to support
your business.
That's just part of what we do.
Every once in a while you haveto choose a client.
Maybe at the beginning you haveto choose a lot of clients that
(05:21):
aren't necessarily people thatare going to be your ideal
client, and there's a differencebetween an ideal client and a
good client.
An ideal client is that clientwho's like.
I'm so grateful.
I really respect your work.
Very few revisions.
They love what you do, whateverthat is to you.
So figure out your ideal clientand then work on getting more
of those.
Realize you have to go throughsome chaff to get to them, but
(05:45):
really work on getting to those.
Having said that, when you haveclients like this that are
driving you crazy and this woulddrive me crazy this is one of
the primary reasons and I'm notdissing agencies I don't like
situations like this, andsituations like this tend to
happen more when you're workingwith something like an agency
(06:07):
than when you're working with anindividual client because you
don't have any control overtheir clients, and that is where
a lot of this comes from.
I am fully with Jessica on thisone it's time to start looking
for other clients, because it'sjust not worth trying to fix a
situation like this.
Having said that, clientmanagement is something that I
(06:31):
am a big proponent of and it'sbuilt into my process and I do
it from day one, and I've donethis because I've pivoted my
mindset.
My clients are not my boss.
I am the boss of my businessand I am the boss of me, and
therefore they don't get to tellme what to do or how to do it
(06:51):
or any of those things.
And in the workplace, when yourmanager gives you bad feedback
or the not enough feedback orany of that, that's on them.
But whenever you are runningyour own business and you're
dealing with your clients andyou're not getting what you need
from them, most of the timethat's on you, and if you choose
(07:12):
to accept that that's happeningand let it keep happening,
that's definitely on you.
So this can be more of a youissue than a client issue.
Do these three clients suck?
It sounds like it, and youshould probably get rid of them.
But it's up to you to make surethat situations like that don't
happen and don't happencontinuously, period.
(07:33):
So I do not wait for my clientsto give me good and clear
instructions.
I go after them.
Most of my work is at the frontend of a project and that's how
I have very few revisions andthat's how I have very few
dissatisfied clients, because Ispend way more effort at the
(07:55):
beginning finding out exactlywhat they want and what they
need and why they need it.
So it's not just enough.
We need you to write this blogpost with these things.
Why?
What do you want to accomplishwith the blog post?
Because if they want toaccomplish something different
than what they think they do,your clients don't always know
best.
You are the subject matterexpert when it comes to writing
(08:15):
this stuff.
So you need to step up and bethat person, and sometimes that
means demanding what you needout of the clients, and I'm not
saying demand in a bad way.
We're very respectful, we'revery professional, but we are
making sure we get what we needto do the job so that we can do
it to the best of our ability,because that's what we do, right
.
We're great, we're experts, wedo the thing, we do it well and
(08:36):
we it to them, and then they arethrilled.
And that's how we create idealclient situations is by not only
finding the people who are justnaturally ideal clients.
You can turn a good client intoan ideal client just through
client management.
I think and that's kind of abig thing.
For me, agencies are a differentballgame, because you have very
(08:58):
little control over whathappens and they tend to work
with a stable of writers andthen you are just one of many.
So it really depends on how youwant to run your business.
Do you just want someone togive you assignments?
You do them, you turn them backin and you're done, which is
kind of like being an employee,I have to say or do you want to
run your business?
(09:18):
If you want to run yourbusiness, if you want to run
your business, then you need toapproach the agencies that will
treat you like a trusted expert.
And they do exist and they areout there and they pay really
good rates.
So if you want to keep workingwith agencies, find the better
ones.
No, just don't deal with thisstuff.
That sounds harsh, but notevery client is the right client
(09:39):
and it is nothing about theclient.
It's not personal.
Like Jessica said, it's makingthe decision that's best for you
and your business.
Jessica Walrack (09:47):
Yeah, and I know a lot of people say this,
but it's so true that a lot oftimes, the ones that pay less,
they're just they have the mostproblems or the biggest pains.
They are.
Treasa Edmond (09:58):
You get up and you.
Jessica Walrack (09:59):
If you're a low-paying client, we apologize,
but really truly they're moredemanding, and I don't know, it
just seems to work that way.
Treasa Edmond (10:11):
Here's the deal.
When you charge a premium rate,your clients expect premium
services.
So you better dang well deliverIf you do.
If you charge a premium rate,your clients expect premium
services, so you better dangwell deliver If you do.
If you charge a premium rateand deliver premium services,
your clients never feel likethey have to run anything.
They know that you are theexpert and you're doing the work
(10:32):
.
And that is a huge weight offof their shoulders and they love
it.
They love it.
Jessica Walrack (10:38):
If you're providing.
Treasa Edmond (10:40):
Yeah, it's a huge trust thing.
And I talk about clientmanagement.
Client management isn't aboutmanaging your client.
It's about managing the processso that both of you are on
equal footing all the waythrough.
So I'm huge on clientrelationships where we are equal
partners all the way through.
They are the subject matterexpert on their thing, I'm the
(11:00):
subject matter expert on what Ido, and we work together to
create something that'swonderful and great and is going
to solve one of their problems.
And if you approach it from thatperspective, you're not lording
it over your client.
Your client's not lording itover you.
Instead, you're equal partnersworking towards a desired end
goal.
That makes a huge difference.
And if you can find the peoplethat you can do that with, then
(11:23):
you don't have problems likethis.
Because if you do have a problem, come up, if they do give you
an assignment or they wantsomething done and they give
unclear instructions, you knowto clarify them.
If you clarify them and youhave it in writing in an email
that this is what they want, andthey come back at the end and
they're like well, we reallydon't like this, we want to
change it.
That's when you can just stepup and say no problem, but this
(11:47):
is completely out of scope withwhat we'd originally discussed,
so we're going to have toactually start a new project.
Would you like to take whatwe've already done and turn it
into something else that you canuse?
So that's not a complete lossfor them?
You're still watching out forthem, so it's not always just
about you, but things like that,those simple mindset shifts and
viewing them as a partnerinstead of a boss type client I
(12:08):
think that makes a hugedifference in how you approach
your clients Absolutely, and Iused to definitely.
Jessica Walrack (12:15):
I mean, I was an employee before I was a
business owner, so that was mydefault mode was how can I do
the best job for you that I canand do everything you need?
But when I really switched itto seeing it as a partnership,
it was hugely pivotal, like ifsomebody wants to talk to me
about hiring me, it's not justthem interviewing me, I'm
(12:38):
interviewing them.
Yes, is they the right client?
Do they have these things thatI need from them in a client?
And so and they feel that too,it's like OK, this is not a one
way thing.
We can't just tell her to dowhatever we're in.
We both have boundaries, weboth have needs, we both have
all those things.
Treasa Edmond (12:55):
So yeah, and that's a good point, you are
choosing your clients as much,if not more, than they are
choosing you.
The ideal goal for I think, allof us is to have enough
potential clients coming in whowant to work with us that we get
to choose who we work withevery single time.
Jessica Walrack (13:13):
Yes, that is a beautiful point.
Treasa Edmond (13:15):
That's it.
And the whole thing with theclient management is like my
discovery calls.
I set my discovery calls up andthen mine are different than
some people's because I domostly long projects
ghostwriting things like that Ispend.
I have 30 minute discoverycalls and I spend the first 20
minutes asking them questions.
Even if I'm just doing a blogfor a client, I spend the first
(13:38):
10 minutes of the call askingquestions and that's helping me
decide if this is the rightproject for me.
And I have no qualms at thispoint in my career and I hope
everyone gets there reallyquickly I have no qualms walking
away from a project that's nota good fit because I'm spending
so much more time and energy onnot good fits than I could be.
(14:00):
I could be using that energy ona great client that's a great
fit and I could have more ofthose.
And you're making a choiceEvery time you're making a
choice.
Do I choose to work with alower paying client who's
probably going to be a pain inthe, or do I choose this client
over here who pays more but ismore sporadic work?
(14:21):
Whatever, You're making thatchoice, but in the end it's.
I think it's really peace ofmind.
Jessica Walrack (14:31):
Yeah, it determines your quality of life.
It really does.
This isn't all about money?
Treasa Edmond (14:36):
Is that something we should have a whole episode
on that?
Running a freelance business isnot all about money.
Money is one of the outcomes.
It is not one of the drivingfactors, or it shouldn't be.
If you run a business to onlymake a profit, then you become
one of those clients you hate.
Jessica Walrack (14:55):
Yeah, it's definitely a way to support
yourself, but then it's soyou're spending your valuable
time of your life every daywriting this stuff.
How is your experience doingthat?
Are you enjoying it?
And at first it is.
For me it was very muchsurvival and trying to get as
(15:16):
much as I could to make my endsmeet.
But then after a while, onceyou find your footing, it's like
okay, how can I make thisenjoyable?
How can I make this stay withinthe boundaries I want it to
stay in?
That's huge because it can veryeasily take over your life and
it a lot of that comes down tothat client management you're
talking about.
It's saying no, learning to sayno and feel good about like now
(15:40):
, when I turn down a project I'mlike, oh, dodged a bullet there
.
Treasa Edmond (15:44):
That's not a good fit.
No is not a bad word.
No is one of the most powerful,best words you could ever have
in your arsenal, and it shouldbecome your favorite word.
I actually had a conversationwith my mom a couple of years
ago and she told me thatwatching me run my business
taught her how to say no.
She never actually understoodthat she could before then, and
to me that actually brought meto tears a little bit, but
(16:06):
that's the thing you really haveto understand that not everyone
understands that they can sayno.
Not everyone feels empowered tosay no.
And when you pull that power toyourself and you start doing it
, you're serving as an examplefor everyone, even for your
clients, even for the peopleyou're working with, your
contacts.
(16:26):
You running your business thebest way you can and living a
most fulfilling life serves asan example to the people around
you, and that shouldn't be yourprimary purpose.
But you should realize thatyou're doing that.
And if it's all about the moneyand if it's all about making
ends meet, then you probablyshould be asking yourself the
hard question would it not beeasier to just have a job?
(16:46):
Because running a business ishard and you can actually just
make money and let someone elsemake all the decisions.
But if you want to be involvedin that decision-making process
and you want to drive your lifeand you want to run this
business, then you actually needto step up and run the business
.
So now, all of that's a bit outof the what do I do with these
three clients?
But no, I think it's still adecision.
(17:08):
What are you going to do Ifyou're going to find new clients
and you still have to work withthem a little bit, maybe step
it up a little bit in the clientmanagement and say hey, I know
a lot of things are going on.
Our last couple of projectshave been a trial.
We don't seem to have clearcommunication going on here.
Let's work together to see ifwe can fix that and then maybe
(17:28):
they'll turn around and become agreat client again.
If not, then you're stillmaking it more bearable until
you can find a client to replacethem.
Jessica Walrack (17:35):
So yeah, maybe give it a shot as you're trying
to find other clients.
Yeah, you're protectingyourself and trying to make the
best of it.
Treasa Edmond (17:48):
Yeah, don't just settle for the status quo.
Try to improve it, even asyou're trying to get out of it.
If that's the situation you'regoing with, yeah, all right.
So tomorrow we are having adeep dive with Jessica on a
couple of different topics thatI think you're going to be
really interested in.
One is niching down and theother one is turning that
outbound business into aninbound business, which I'm
really excited about hearingabout.
So join us tomorrow, our Fridayepisode, and it will be a
(18:10):
longer episode, and we'll justhear a lot more from Jessica.
See you there.
Welcome back to the Boss Responses podcast.
Have you ever had one of thoseconversations where, at the end
of it, you're like, wow, I was alittle bit passionate about
that.
Well, this may be one of thoseepisodes for me, but it's a good
episode.
Jessica and I are answering aquestion about what happens, or
what should you do, when youhave clients who are driving you
(00:21):
crazy.
The person who asked thequestion today is dealing with
three such clients, all of themat the same time.
Jessica and I cover a couple ofdifferent topics while we're
answering the question, and Ithink that they're all pretty
great.
We talk about ideal clients,client management and when it's
time to just let go and findbetter clients.
(00:43):
It's a little bit of a longerepisode, but I think the time
spent was well worth it, so havea listen and let me know what
you think.
If you're a freelancer, businessowner or anyone who deals with
clients, you're in the rightplace.
I'm your host, teresa Edmond.
I've been dealing with clientsand running my business for
(01:03):
nearly two decades and in thattime.
I've been dealing with clientsand running my business for
nearly two decades and in thattime, I've dealt with my share
of doubt, imposter syndrome andnot knowing what to say when a
client asked a question I wasn'tready for.
I created this podcast toempower you with the boss
responses you need to grow yourbusiness.
Each week, my guest co-host andI will bring you five episodes
(01:24):
packed with practical insights.
Monday through Thursday, weanswer your questions, and
Fridays we dive deep to explorehow our co-hosts embrace their
role as the boss of theirbusiness.
Welcome to Boss Responses.
We are back for day four withJessica Walrack and Jessica.
(01:45):
I have the question for youtoday.
It says my clients are drivingme crazy.
We've all been there, right?
Yeah, so I have three mainclients I work with all agencies
.
Lately, I seem to be receivinga lot of conflicting or unclear
instructions from my contacts,which makes it difficult to
deliver the final product theyactually want.
This means more revisions andmore frustration for them and
(02:07):
for me.
I've never had this problembefore.
All three are on the low end ofthe average on rates, but they
give me plenty of work, so itbalances out.
This is a theme this week.
Yeah, there's been turnover atall three and my contacts at two
of them are new.
The third contact has a newmanager and nothing we do seems
to please him.
Is there a way I can stop themadness, or am I out of luck?
Jessica Walrack (02:33):
Well, first of all, I'm so sorry you're going
through that.
I've totally been in a similarsituation and, yeah, it's hard.
You can take on the role ofleading clients and giving them
feedback on what you need, onhow to give clear instructions,
like I've had clients I see thisa lot with like brand new
(02:54):
startups.
They just got funding andthey're ready to go ahead, but
they just don't have very muchinfrastructure.
They're not that organized yet,and so they'll be like, yeah,
can you write this blog?
And then they have six peopleon there giving feedback and all
different conflicting opinions,and so at that point I can say
(03:16):
you need to have a point personwho everybody talks to, and they
put together all of thefeedback and then they deliver
it to me and I'll give you tworevisions that are included in
the price, and then, if you wantmore, we can talk about that
afterwards and it will be anadditional cost, and so you can
lead them in that way.
Honestly, when I start to seethings like this, I just start
(03:37):
looking for a new client that Ican replace them, because a lot
of times they need to just workthat out.
Their stuff isn't ready to hirefreelancers yet.
They're doing the best they can, but they're not organized and
then it takes too much of yourtime and then stressful.
It's not good for your health.
Maybe you end up workingthrough dinner when you're
(03:57):
supposed to be cooking for yourfamily or other things, and it's
just one thing can lead toanother.
So I would say, like I talkedabout on day one, this is one of
those things where you get tothe end of the project and
you're like okay, feedbackwasn't cohesive and organized,
there was too many back andforth revisions, manager isn't
(04:18):
grateful, doesn't seem trulyhappy with my work.
Maybe this just isn't a goodfit.
Nothing personal, it justdoesn't sound like it's a good
fit because there are clientsout there who are going to love
what you're doing.
They're going to write you backand just be like I am so
grateful for you and make youfeel amazing and you're not
going to have all these kinds ofrevisions.
I think you can try to take theguidance role, if you want,
(04:41):
first, or you can note thesethings for the future and keep
prospecting to look for clientsto replace them.
I know it's not always easy tojust drop someone If you have a
space, you have bills to pay andthese things but I would
recommend starting to look forsomebody a better fit.
How about you, teresa?
Treasa Edmond (05:00):
No, I absolutely agree, and I was going to start
by talking about clientmanagement, but now I'm going to
talk about the ideal clientfirst.
Not every client is your idealclient and sometimes you have to
work with people who are notyour ideal clients to support
your business.
That's just part of what we do.
Every once in a while you haveto choose a client.
Maybe at the beginning you haveto choose a lot of clients that
(05:21):
aren't necessarily people thatare going to be your ideal
client, and there's a differencebetween an ideal client and a
good client.
An ideal client is that clientwho's like.
I'm so grateful.
I really respect your work.
Very few revisions.
They love what you do, whateverthat is to you.
So figure out your ideal clientand then work on getting more
of those.
Realize you have to go throughsome chaff to get to them, but
(05:45):
really work on getting to those.
Having said that, when you haveclients like this that are
driving you crazy and this woulddrive me crazy this is one of
the primary reasons and I'm notdissing agencies I don't like
situations like this, andsituations like this tend to
happen more when you're workingwith something like an agency
(06:07):
than when you're working with anindividual client because you
don't have any control overtheir clients, and that is where
a lot of this comes from.
I am fully with Jessica on thisone it's time to start looking
for other clients, because it'sjust not worth trying to fix a
situation like this.
Having said that, clientmanagement is something that I
(06:31):
am a big proponent of and it'sbuilt into my process and I do
it from day one, and I've donethis because I've pivoted my
mindset.
My clients are not my boss.
I am the boss of my businessand I am the boss of me, and
therefore they don't get to tellme what to do or how to do it
(06:51):
or any of those things.
And in the workplace, when yourmanager gives you bad feedback
or the not enough feedback orany of that, that's on them.
But whenever you are runningyour own business and you're
dealing with your clients andyou're not getting what you need
from them, most of the timethat's on you, and if you choose
(07:12):
to accept that that's happeningand let it keep happening,
that's definitely on you.
So this can be more of a youissue than a client issue.
Do these three clients suck?
It sounds like it, and youshould probably get rid of them.
But it's up to you to make surethat situations like that don't
happen and don't happencontinuously, period.
(07:33):
So I do not wait for my clientsto give me good and clear
instructions.
I go after them.
Most of my work is at the frontend of a project and that's how
I have very few revisions andthat's how I have very few
dissatisfied clients, because Ispend way more effort at the
(07:55):
beginning finding out exactlywhat they want and what they
need and why they need it.
So it's not just enough.
We need you to write this blogpost with these things.
Why?
What do you want to accomplishwith the blog post?
Because if they want toaccomplish something different
than what they think they do,your clients don't always know
best.
You are the subject matterexpert when it comes to writing
(08:15):
this stuff.
So you need to step up and bethat person, and sometimes that
means demanding what you needout of the clients, and I'm not
saying demand in a bad way.
We're very respectful, we'revery professional, but we are
making sure we get what we needto do the job so that we can do
it to the best of our ability,because that's what we do, right
.
We're great, we're experts, wedo the thing, we do it well and
(08:36):
we it to them, and then they arethrilled.
And that's how we create idealclient situations is by not only
finding the people who are justnaturally ideal clients.
You can turn a good client intoan ideal client just through
client management.
I think and that's kind of abig thing.
For me, agencies are a differentballgame, because you have very
(08:58):
little control over whathappens and they tend to work
with a stable of writers andthen you are just one of many.
So it really depends on how youwant to run your business.
Do you just want someone togive you assignments?
You do them, you turn them backin and you're done, which is
kind of like being an employee,I have to say or do you want to
run your business?
(09:18):
If you want to run yourbusiness, if you want to run
your business, then you need toapproach the agencies that will
treat you like a trusted expert.
And they do exist and they areout there and they pay really
good rates.
So if you want to keep workingwith agencies, find the better
ones.
No, just don't deal with thisstuff.
That sounds harsh, but notevery client is the right client
(09:39):
and it is nothing about theclient.
It's not personal.
Like Jessica said, it's makingthe decision that's best for you
and your business.
Jessica Walrack (09:47):
Yeah, and I know a lot of people say this,
but it's so true that a lot oftimes, the ones that pay less,
they're just they have the mostproblems or the biggest pains.
They are.
Treasa Edmond (09:58):
You get up and you.
Jessica Walrack (09:59):
If you're a low-paying client, we apologize,
but really truly they're moredemanding, and I don't know, it
just seems to work that way.
Treasa Edmond (10:11):
Here's the deal.
When you charge a premium rate,your clients expect premium
services.
So you better dang well deliverIf you do.
If you charge a premium rate,your clients expect premium
services, so you better dangwell deliver If you do.
If you charge a premium rateand deliver premium services,
your clients never feel likethey have to run anything.
They know that you are theexpert and you're doing the work
(10:32):
.
And that is a huge weight offof their shoulders and they love
it.
They love it.
Jessica Walrack (10:38):
If you're providing.
Treasa Edmond (10:40):
Yeah, it's a huge trust thing.
And I talk about clientmanagement.
Client management isn't aboutmanaging your client.
It's about managing the processso that both of you are on
equal footing all the waythrough.
So I'm huge on clientrelationships where we are equal
partners all the way through.
They are the subject matterexpert on their thing, I'm the
(11:00):
subject matter expert on what Ido, and we work together to
create something that'swonderful and great and is going
to solve one of their problems.
And if you approach it from thatperspective, you're not lording
it over your client.
Your client's not lording itover you.
Instead, you're equal partnersworking towards a desired end
goal.
That makes a huge difference.
And if you can find the peoplethat you can do that with, then
(11:23):
you don't have problems likethis.
Because if you do have a problem, come up, if they do give you
an assignment or they wantsomething done and they give
unclear instructions, you knowto clarify them.
If you clarify them and youhave it in writing in an email
that this is what they want, andthey come back at the end and
they're like well, we reallydon't like this, we want to
change it.
That's when you can just stepup and say no problem, but this
(11:47):
is completely out of scope withwhat we'd originally discussed,
so we're going to have toactually start a new project.
Would you like to take whatwe've already done and turn it
into something else that you canuse?
So that's not a complete lossfor them?
You're still watching out forthem, so it's not always just
about you, but things like that,those simple mindset shifts and
viewing them as a partnerinstead of a boss type client I
(12:08):
think that makes a hugedifference in how you approach
your clients Absolutely, and Iused to definitely.
Jessica Walrack (12:15):
I mean, I was an employee before I was a
business owner, so that was mydefault mode was how can I do
the best job for you that I canand do everything you need?
But when I really switched itto seeing it as a partnership,
it was hugely pivotal, like ifsomebody wants to talk to me
about hiring me, it's not justthem interviewing me, I'm
(12:38):
interviewing them.
Yes, is they the right client?
Do they have these things thatI need from them in a client?
And so and they feel that too,it's like OK, this is not a one
way thing.
We can't just tell her to dowhatever we're in.
We both have boundaries, weboth have needs, we both have
all those things.
Treasa Edmond (12:55):
So yeah, and that's a good point, you are
choosing your clients as much,if not more, than they are
choosing you.
The ideal goal for I think, allof us is to have enough
potential clients coming in whowant to work with us that we get
to choose who we work withevery single time.
Jessica Walrack (13:13):
Yes, that is a beautiful point.
Treasa Edmond (13:15):
That's it.
And the whole thing with theclient management is like my
discovery calls.
I set my discovery calls up andthen mine are different than
some people's because I domostly long projects
ghostwriting things like that Ispend.
I have 30 minute discoverycalls and I spend the first 20
minutes asking them questions.
Even if I'm just doing a blogfor a client, I spend the first
(13:38):
10 minutes of the call askingquestions and that's helping me
decide if this is the rightproject for me.
And I have no qualms at thispoint in my career and I hope
everyone gets there reallyquickly I have no qualms walking
away from a project that's nota good fit because I'm spending
so much more time and energy onnot good fits than I could be.
(14:00):
I could be using that energy ona great client that's a great
fit and I could have more ofthose.
And you're making a choiceEvery time you're making a
choice.
Do I choose to work with alower paying client who's
probably going to be a pain inthe, or do I choose this client
over here who pays more but ismore sporadic work?
(14:21):
Whatever, You're making thatchoice, but in the end it's.
I think it's really peace ofmind.
Jessica Walrack (14:31):
Yeah, it determines your quality of life.
It really does.
This isn't all about money?
Treasa Edmond (14:36):
Is that something we should have a whole episode
on that?
Running a freelance business isnot all about money.
Money is one of the outcomes.
It is not one of the drivingfactors, or it shouldn't be.
If you run a business to onlymake a profit, then you become
one of those clients you hate.
Jessica Walrack (14:55):
Yeah, it's definitely a way to support
yourself, but then it's soyou're spending your valuable
time of your life every daywriting this stuff.
How is your experience doingthat?
Are you enjoying it?
And at first it is.
For me it was very muchsurvival and trying to get as
(15:16):
much as I could to make my endsmeet.
But then after a while, onceyou find your footing, it's like
okay, how can I make thisenjoyable?
How can I make this stay withinthe boundaries I want it to
stay in?
That's huge because it can veryeasily take over your life and
it a lot of that comes down tothat client management you're
talking about.
It's saying no, learning to sayno and feel good about like now
(15:40):
, when I turn down a project I'mlike, oh, dodged a bullet there
.
Treasa Edmond (15:44):
That's not a good fit.
No is not a bad word.
No is one of the most powerful,best words you could ever have
in your arsenal, and it shouldbecome your favorite word.
I actually had a conversationwith my mom a couple of years
ago and she told me thatwatching me run my business
taught her how to say no.
She never actually understoodthat she could before then, and
to me that actually brought meto tears a little bit, but
(16:06):
that's the thing you really haveto understand that not everyone
understands that they can sayno.
Not everyone feels empowered tosay no.
And when you pull that power toyourself and you start doing it
, you're serving as an examplefor everyone, even for your
clients, even for the peopleyou're working with, your
contacts.
(16:26):
You running your business thebest way you can and living a
most fulfilling life serves asan example to the people around
you, and that shouldn't be yourprimary purpose.
But you should realize thatyou're doing that.
And if it's all about the moneyand if it's all about making
ends meet, then you probablyshould be asking yourself the
hard question would it not beeasier to just have a job?
(16:46):
Because running a business ishard and you can actually just
make money and let someone elsemake all the decisions.
But if you want to be involvedin that decision-making process
and you want to drive your lifeand you want to run this
business, then you actually needto step up and run the business
.
So now, all of that's a bit outof the what do I do with these
three clients?
But no, I think it's still adecision.
(17:08):
What are you going to do Ifyou're going to find new clients
and you still have to work withthem a little bit, maybe step
it up a little bit in the clientmanagement and say hey, I know
a lot of things are going on.
Our last couple of projectshave been a trial.
We don't seem to have clearcommunication going on here.
Let's work together to see ifwe can fix that and then maybe
(17:28):
they'll turn around and become agreat client again.
If not, then you're stillmaking it more bearable until
you can find a client to replacethem.
Jessica Walrack (17:35):
So yeah, maybe give it a shot as you're trying
to find other clients.
Yeah, you're protectingyourself and trying to make the
best of it.
Treasa Edmond (17:48):
Yeah, don't just settle for the status quo.
Try to improve it, even asyou're trying to get out of it.
If that's the situation you'regoing with, yeah, all right.
So tomorrow we are having adeep dive with Jessica on a
couple of different topics thatI think you're going to be
really interested in.
One is niching down and theother one is turning that
outbound business into aninbound business, which I'm
really excited about hearingabout.
So join us tomorrow, our Fridayepisode, and it will be a
(18:10):
longer episode, and we'll justhear a lot more from Jessica.
See you there.
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