January 23, 2025 • 16 mins
What if you could escape the grind of endless work hours and actually see the financial reward you deserve? Join Treasa Edmond and guest co-host Sarah Greesenbach on this episode of Boss Responses as they explore how to identify and cultivate relationships with high-value clients, redefine your bottom line, and set thriving fee rates. Imagine working smarter, not harder, and prioritizing quality over quantity to enhance both your work and personal life. It's time to shift your mindset and let your business support your lifestyle, not consume it.
Discover the power of knowing your worth when it comes to pricing your services. Standing firm on your rates and embracing value-based pricing isn't just about money—it's about honoring your skills and experience. Treasa and Sarah navigate the often-hidden pay discrepancies and the dangers of the "race to the bottom" mentality. Sarah even shares her dairy-free and gluten-free waffle recipe to sweeten your day. This episode is full of actionable insights to help you recognize your value.
About Our Guest
Sarah Greesonbach is the founder of B2B Content Studio and a seasoned expert in B2B marketing content. With over a decade of experience writing for Fortune 100 brands and top executives, Sarah specializes in transforming complex ideas into clear, compelling content. She has worked with industries ranging from SaaS and HR tech to retail and higher education, helping businesses showcase their unique value to prospective customers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Treasa Edmond (00:00):
Welcome back to Boss Responses.
Buckle up folks.
Today is going to be a wildride.
This episode is just a littlebit longer, but you're going to
want to listen to it.
We're answering a question froma freelancer who is working 50
to 60 hour weeks and stillbarely making ends meet.
(00:20):
There's a little bit of toughlove.
Okay, there's a lot of toughlove in this episode.
All right, let's go ahead andget into it.
If you're a freelancer, businessowner or anyone who deals with
clients, you're in the rightplace.
I'm your host, teresa Edmond.
I've been dealing with clientsand running my business for
(00:42):
nearly two decades and in thattime, I've dealt with my share
of doubt, imposter syndrome andnot knowing what to say when a
client asked a question I wasn'tready for.
I created this podcast toempower you with the boss
responses you need to grow yourbusiness.
Each week, my guest co-host andI will bring you five episodes
(01:02):
packed with practical insights.
Monday through Thursday, weanswer your questions, and
Fridays, we dive deep to explorehow our co-hosts embrace their
role as the boss of theirbusiness.
Welcome to Boss Responses.
We are back for day four withSarah Griesenbach and Sarah, I
(01:24):
have a question for you todayfrom Gage.
Sarah Greesonbach (01:27):
He says.
Treasa Edmond (01:28):
I've been doing social media management for two
years and I've hit a plateau.
It happens to all of us.
Gage, I'm working 50 to 60hours a week managing accounts
for 10 clients, but I'm barelymaking enough to cover living
expenses.
I really want to interrupt andjust say 50 to 60 hours a week
is too much, but we'll get tothat later.
Sarah Greesonbach (01:47):
I have a really funny response to this.
Treasa Edmond (01:49):
I know I could take on more clients and
increase my income, but Ialready feel overwhelmed.
I've considered hiring a VA oranother social media manager to
help, but after calculating thecosts I'm not sure I could
afford it without raising myrates and potentially losing
clients.
How can I scale my business toincrease revenue without burning
(02:10):
out or compromising quality?
And, sarah, I think there'sactually like five questions in
here, so go for it.
Sarah Greesonbach (02:18):
So, gage, babe, with respect to the things
we all have to do to survive,all right, no shade to that.
This actually isn't a plateau.
This is like a servant role andit is not a business.
It's almost like you'revolunteering for these companies
and they're kind of payingintern fees.
So to me, all of this questionis about the second to last line
(02:44):
.
I can't afford it withoutraising my rates and potentially
losing clients.
Sometimes the client just won'tpay what it's worth, and those
are relationships we have towalk away from.
Maybe we have to upskill toleave it, maybe we have to
change industries to leave it,whatever.
But if your clients literallycannot pay for you to do the
(03:07):
work that requires you to work50 to 60 hours a week, they're
simply not good clients.
So I think it starts withredefining what is a good client
.
What's my bottom line rate?
What do I have to earn to coverliving expenses?
And then what's my thriving fee?
Like what would I have to learnto make my whole life thrive?
And I think it starts there,because there is nothing you can
(03:29):
do to work harder if you do notraise your fees.
It's simply that's what math is.
Won't happen, teresa, take it.
Treasa Edmond (03:39):
Yeah, that's the thing I really want to just hit
on the head.
I'm not sure I can afford itwithout raising my fees and
potentially losing clients, andI just want to scream into the
microphone but I won't becausethat would hurt everyone's ears.
What is wrong with raising yourrates and losing clients?
Sarah Greesonbach (03:54):
it's the fear .
Treasa Edmond (03:56):
Yeah, that's all it is.
It's often what's best for yourbusiness.
It's often what's best for you.
If the only thing keeping youfrom doing both of those things
is the fear, then do one andthen be prepared for when the
other one happens.
So raise the rates andimmediately find new clients.
I have, let's see I'm trying tocalculate years in my head and
(04:19):
I'm very bad with numbersProbably my first 10 years I
didn't really raise my rates andI'm telling you not to do that.
That's a bad, bad thing to do.
Once I started raising my ratesand started losing clients, I'm
like that's okay, I'm making upfor it.
I have higher rates, lessclients, it's okay.
I got to the point where Iregularly raise my rates on
(04:41):
every new client, even if it'sjust five cents.
I do not bring a new client inwithout raising my rates.
And I did that with myghostwriting more in leaps and
bounds until I got to a premiumrate range.
And if a client bulks at therate, they are not the client
for me and that is okay, becauseI can do two clients at that
(05:03):
rate where I would have had tohave done 15 at my lower rate.
I can do better work for them,I can provide a higher quality
product and I have more peace ofmind.
And if I want to go dosomething in an afternoon like
set an Asana like Sarah oh, dosomething in an afternoon like
set an asana like Sarah I can doit.
That's the thing.
I also do not work on clientwork 50 to 60 hours a week Not
(05:25):
going to happen.
I have to leave time for my ownbusiness.
That takes five to 10 hours aweek minimum and the rest of the
time I set schedules.
So I tell myself I'm onlyworking on client work for 30
hours this week or 25.
And you get your rates to thepoint where it all balances out.
(05:48):
It essentially comes down towhat you're willing to sacrifice
, and I'm not willing tosacrifice my life for my
business.
My business exists to supportmy lifestyle, not the other way
around.
And I'm old and cranky at thispoint, people.
I mean I'm not old, old, butI'm old enough.
The other way around, and I'mold and cranky at this point,
people, I mean I'm not old, old,but I'm old enough to be cranky
.
And I'm going to claim that.
Sarah Greesonbach (06:03):
I absolutely am.
Treasa Edmond (06:04):
Yes, I am a boss, and that's the thing.
It's boss responses.
We are the boss of our business.
That means we get to decidewhat to do.
Sarah Greesonbach (06:19):
Can you run a business and consistently work?
50?
Treasa Edmond (06:20):
to 60 hours a week, absolutely.
Who wants to Do you want to,sarah?
It's a sad time.
I know I can't do anything elsebecause then I'm so tired
because all I'm doing is working, not to mention almost all of
the people listening to thispodcast work in a creative area.
You cannot be consistently highquality creative for that many
hours a week and, I'm sorry,social media management.
A lot of that is managementstuff, but there's still a fair
(06:42):
amount of creativity andresponding to people and dealing
with people and relationshipsand you cannot maintain that
consistently at a high qualityfor that many hours a week.
Sarah Greesonbach (06:53):
So I'd like to put on my little devil ears
and my devil tail and be thedevil's advocate and grill you.
Okay, earlier we said unicornclients exist and they're not
unicorns.
They'll suggest that they payyou more, like that kind of
thing.
I think for both of us we'veexperienced that.
So if I'm Gage and I'm sayingTeresa, if I raise my rates,
(07:15):
they'll say bye-bye and replaceme.
What the F do I do?
What would you say to that?
Treasa Edmond (07:20):
How would you you replace them first Ooh, this is
.
We are in partnerships with ourclients.
We build relationships with ourclients.
We are not fricking married toour clients.
We are not dating them.
This is honestly about yourbusiness, and if that sounds
harsh, I'm so sorry people.
This is about your business andif that sounds harsh, I'm so
sorry people.
This is about your business.
(07:41):
You are an employee of yourbusiness.
Would you bring anotheremployee in and expect them to
do this?
No, you wouldn't.
Because it would make you feellike an asshat extreme.
Sarah Greesonbach (07:53):
You're just not going to do that.
Treasa Edmond (07:54):
You're not.
So you need to be treatingyourself with the same respect
you would treat any otheremployee.
And sometimes that is makinghard decisions on behalf of your
business.
And sometimes that is tellingthat client that you've worked
with for 10 years and you'venever raised your rate and
they're paying you way underminimum wage, which we don't
earn minimum wage, by the way.
You're telling them I adore you, I've loved working with you.
(08:18):
This is not feasible for mybusiness anymore.
I've raised my rates on everyother client up to this point.
I know that's out of yourbudget.
If you would still like to findanother capacity to continue
this relationship, I'm happy todo that.
Otherwise, I'm happy torecommend some beginning
freelancers to you who may beable to work at that rate.
And then you just keep going.
(08:38):
That's what you do.
So you have to make harddecisions for your business and
you have to have honestconversations with yourself
first and then with your client.
And if your client throws a fitand accuses you of being
disloyal because you've leftthem after that amount of time,
then they never reallyappreciated you anyway.
Sarah Greesonbach (09:04):
This is me doing the poetry reading,
clapping with the snapping.
It's poetry, that's great.
I'm trying not to be dumb, butit's like so many of the
questions from this week comedown to our fear and our
identity with ourselves.
And so Gage is saying I'mworking as hard as I can, I'm
doing great work, I love theseclients, but I'm suffering.
(09:25):
They need to feel the suffering.
Why are you the only one whocan suffer, Gage?
Like their budget should feelthe suffering, and if it here's
the most beautiful part of it atleast to me if it's not worth
more money to them, maybe theyshouldn't be doing it.
Maybe they don't need socialmedia if they can't pay more
than minimum wage for it.
Like these are the things thatI'm going through in my mind.
Treasa Edmond (09:47):
So, oh, go ahead.
No, go ahead.
I'm sorry sir.
Sarah Greesonbach (09:51):
I think I was faking that.
I had a next thing to say, sogo ahead.
Treasa Edmond (09:56):
So one thing I want to add here is your clients
.
It's their job to grumble aboutyour rates Sometimes.
It's their job to get the mostamount of work for the least
amount of money so they canstretch their budget as far as
it goes.
It has nothing to do with youas a person.
It has nothing to do with yourbusiness.
They, honestly, they might likeyou as a person, but that's not
(10:17):
their primary objective.
Their primary objective is toget the content or the design
work or the web design orwhatever it is, for the most
reasonable price possible, sothat they can afford to do other
things as well.
It's a business decision forthem and it needs to be a
business decision for you.
That's across the board.
Also, I have and, sarah, Idon't know if you've ever
(10:40):
experienced this, I've talked toso many people.
It's happened to and it'shappened to me all the time.
When you are CC'd in on an emailfrom your client to someone
else accidentally and you seehow much they are paying that
other person for the same thingyou do and you're like, ooh,
that hurts.
I talked to someone last weekjust in a conversation about an
(11:05):
agency that they'd worked withand they were at a rate that
they thought was really good.
The agency had talked them downa little bit which, by the way,
I never talk down my rates, Iwill talk down scope, but that's
the thing, that's a personaldecision but anyway, the agency
had talked them down on theirrates.
It was enough that it makes adifference.
And then they accidentally gotcc'd on an email three months
(11:29):
later where they found out thatthey were paying another
freelancer almost five timeswhat they were paying them for
the exact same thing.
And it happens.
Unless you stick up for yourrates, no one else is going to.
That's just, it's a thing.
Sarah Greesonbach (11:42):
Yeah, I've certainly been witness to in
some of my coaching clients,where they see what the agency
is charging the client for theirwork, with the agency not doing
anything, and it was literallylike six times as much.
Yeah, it was pretty astonishing.
Treasa Edmond (11:59):
Yep and I worked with I went in-house for a while
as I was pivoting so that Icould start this podcast and
have the space and time to dothat and strategy bosses and
I've been a ghostwriter foryears and I charge a premium for
ghostwriting now.
But if someone had asked me howmuch would you charge for a 60
page?
For years and I charge apremium for ghostwriting now but
if someone had asked me howmuch would you charge for a 60
page ebook, I probably wouldhave still given what I would
(12:20):
consider a reasonable but highend reasonable rate.
While I was in that in-houseposition, they signed a contract
for an ebook 60 pages, 60 pagesand they paid $50,000 for 60
pages and I'm like confidencethe company, the agency that
they were working with, nevereven blinked at giving that rate
(12:45):
to a potential client and theclients.
Obviously you're worth it andI'm like I've written this stuff
for well less than this, butthat's not ever happening again.
It's a two-part situation.
It's what you're comfortablecharging your clients, which in
the end doesn't matter, and it'swhat your clients are willing
to pay for high value work, andsometimes they're willing to pay
(13:07):
way more than you thought youwould, which is why I love
value-based pricing.
So, gage, you need to raiseyour rates and lose some clients
.
You need to do those things,and that's the only way you can
get over this hurdle that you'refacing.
You cannot stay where you areand expect things to change.
You need to raise your ratesand find new clients, and maybe
(13:27):
that means you need to go backto the drawing board on your
messaging and your clientoutreach and change who you're
reaching out to, because itmight not be the companies
you're currently working with.
Sarah Greesonbach (13:38):
I'd add a threat if you don't do that.
To quote the rock star andphilosopher Jonathan Stark it's
just a race to the bottom.
It's just them, pitting youagainst other people who would
be willing to charge less, andother people might have less
living expenses.
Treasa Edmond (13:55):
I think that's the first threat we've ever had
on boss responses.
So thank you.
Thank you for bringing that tothe table.
Sarah Greesonbach (14:00):
The only reason we're so emphatic about
this Gage is because youfreaking deserve a 20-hour
client work week.
Yes, two hours to just freaking, relax and go out for coffee
and to make the same amount ofmoney, like it is possible, and
I think that's why we're beingso grumpy about it.
I think we're mad at yourclients for being willing to pay
(14:24):
what they're paying.
Treasa Edmond (14:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm never going to tell someoneyou're not charging enough as a
scathing rebuke to them.
Sarah Greesonbach (14:31):
Right.
Treasa Edmond (14:31):
I'm telling you you're not charging enough
because you are worth so muchmore than that and the value
you're providing your clients isstratospherically different
from what you're actuallycharging.
So tough love in this case isactual love.
It's not critical feedback.
This is actually tough lovebecause we want you to do better
and sometimes you have to makethe tough decisions to do that.
Sarah Greesonbach (14:52):
That's our message.
We're not mean, we just loveyou real hard.
Treasa Edmond (14:56):
We do.
That's the benefit of age andexperience.
We get to love money a littlebit harder and we also speak
from experience.
So we've been where you are,We've charged those rates and
now we look back at it and we'relike we can't let this happen
to anyone else?
Yes, it's just, if we don'tspeak up for you, then who's
going to Anything else to add tothis one Sarah?
Sarah Greesonbach (15:19):
I did say I would share my waffle recipe.
Yes, it's dairy-free andgluten-free, so you can sub out
a couple different things, butwhat you'll want to do is mix
one egg with three-quarters cupsof your sugar of choice,
preferably granulated, sometimescoconut sugar, a little bit of
vanilla, a little bit of bakingsoda, and then we're going to do
(15:40):
one cup of almond flour andmaybe half a cup of arrowroot or
tapioca flour.
Mix that baby up and put it ona waffle griddle.
It's going to be great.
Treasa Edmond (15:51):
There you go, folks Our first Boss Responses
Threat and our first BossResponses recipe all in the same
day.
So we're going to break off andhave a podcast called Wes
Threat and our first BossResponses Recipe all in the same
day.
Sarah Greesonbach (15:58):
So we're going to break off and have a
podcast called Waffle Threat.
Yes that's funny, that'sawesome.
Treasa Edmond (16:06):
All right.
So it's been a fun week so farand thank you so much for being
here, Sarah.
Tomorrow, everyone needs totune in because we are talking
about one of those topics thatactually just comes really
nicely after the entire week.
We're going to have a prettydeep discussion on boundaries
and how you can create partnerrelationships with your clients
(16:27):
that will actually do more foryour business than you could
ever imagine.
Welcome back to Boss Responses.
Buckle up folks.
Today is going to be a wildride.
This episode is just a littlebit longer, but you're going to
want to listen to it.
We're answering a question froma freelancer who is working 50
to 60 hour weeks and stillbarely making ends meet.
(00:20):
There's a little bit of toughlove.
Okay, there's a lot of toughlove in this episode.
All right, let's go ahead andget into it.
If you're a freelancer, businessowner or anyone who deals with
clients, you're in the rightplace.
I'm your host, teresa Edmond.
I've been dealing with clientsand running my business for
(00:42):
nearly two decades and in thattime, I've dealt with my share
of doubt, imposter syndrome andnot knowing what to say when a
client asked a question I wasn'tready for.
I created this podcast toempower you with the boss
responses you need to grow yourbusiness.
Each week, my guest co-host andI will bring you five episodes
(01:02):
packed with practical insights.
Monday through Thursday, weanswer your questions, and
Fridays, we dive deep to explorehow our co-hosts embrace their
role as the boss of theirbusiness.
Welcome to Boss Responses.
We are back for day four withSarah Griesenbach and Sarah, I
(01:24):
have a question for you todayfrom Gage.
Sarah Greesonbach (01:27):
He says.
Treasa Edmond (01:28):
I've been doing social media management for two
years and I've hit a plateau.
It happens to all of us.
Gage, I'm working 50 to 60hours a week managing accounts
for 10 clients, but I'm barelymaking enough to cover living
expenses.
I really want to interrupt andjust say 50 to 60 hours a week
is too much, but we'll get tothat later.
Sarah Greesonbach (01:47):
I have a really funny response to this.
Treasa Edmond (01:49):
I know I could take on more clients and
increase my income, but Ialready feel overwhelmed.
I've considered hiring a VA oranother social media manager to
help, but after calculating thecosts I'm not sure I could
afford it without raising myrates and potentially losing
clients.
How can I scale my business toincrease revenue without burning
(02:10):
out or compromising quality?
And, sarah, I think there'sactually like five questions in
here, so go for it.
Sarah Greesonbach (02:18):
So, gage, babe, with respect to the things
we all have to do to survive,all right, no shade to that.
This actually isn't a plateau.
This is like a servant role andit is not a business.
It's almost like you'revolunteering for these companies
and they're kind of payingintern fees.
So to me, all of this questionis about the second to last line
(02:44):
.
I can't afford it withoutraising my rates and potentially
losing clients.
Sometimes the client just won'tpay what it's worth, and those
are relationships we have towalk away from.
Maybe we have to upskill toleave it, maybe we have to
change industries to leave it,whatever.
But if your clients literallycannot pay for you to do the
(03:07):
work that requires you to work50 to 60 hours a week, they're
simply not good clients.
So I think it starts withredefining what is a good client
.
What's my bottom line rate?
What do I have to earn to coverliving expenses?
And then what's my thriving fee?
Like what would I have to learnto make my whole life thrive?
And I think it starts there,because there is nothing you can
(03:29):
do to work harder if you do notraise your fees.
It's simply that's what math is.
Won't happen, teresa, take it.
Treasa Edmond (03:39):
Yeah, that's the thing I really want to just hit
on the head.
I'm not sure I can afford itwithout raising my fees and
potentially losing clients, andI just want to scream into the
microphone but I won't becausethat would hurt everyone's ears.
What is wrong with raising yourrates and losing clients?
Sarah Greesonbach (03:54):
it's the fear .
Treasa Edmond (03:56):
Yeah, that's all it is.
It's often what's best for yourbusiness.
It's often what's best for you.
If the only thing keeping youfrom doing both of those things
is the fear, then do one andthen be prepared for when the
other one happens.
So raise the rates andimmediately find new clients.
I have, let's see I'm trying tocalculate years in my head and
(04:19):
I'm very bad with numbersProbably my first 10 years I
didn't really raise my rates andI'm telling you not to do that.
That's a bad, bad thing to do.
Once I started raising my ratesand started losing clients, I'm
like that's okay, I'm making upfor it.
I have higher rates, lessclients, it's okay.
I got to the point where Iregularly raise my rates on
(04:41):
every new client, even if it'sjust five cents.
I do not bring a new client inwithout raising my rates.
And I did that with myghostwriting more in leaps and
bounds until I got to a premiumrate range.
And if a client bulks at therate, they are not the client
for me and that is okay, becauseI can do two clients at that
(05:03):
rate where I would have had tohave done 15 at my lower rate.
I can do better work for them,I can provide a higher quality
product and I have more peace ofmind.
And if I want to go dosomething in an afternoon like
set an Asana like Sarah oh, dosomething in an afternoon like
set an asana like Sarah I can doit.
That's the thing.
I also do not work on clientwork 50 to 60 hours a week Not
(05:25):
going to happen.
I have to leave time for my ownbusiness.
That takes five to 10 hours aweek minimum and the rest of the
time I set schedules.
So I tell myself I'm onlyworking on client work for 30
hours this week or 25.
And you get your rates to thepoint where it all balances out.
(05:48):
It essentially comes down towhat you're willing to sacrifice
, and I'm not willing tosacrifice my life for my
business.
My business exists to supportmy lifestyle, not the other way
around.
And I'm old and cranky at thispoint, people.
I mean I'm not old, old, butI'm old enough.
The other way around, and I'mold and cranky at this point,
people, I mean I'm not old, old,but I'm old enough to be cranky
.
And I'm going to claim that.
Sarah Greesonbach (06:03):
I absolutely am.
Treasa Edmond (06:04):
Yes, I am a boss, and that's the thing.
It's boss responses.
We are the boss of our business.
That means we get to decidewhat to do.
Sarah Greesonbach (06:19):
Can you run a business and consistently work?
50?
Treasa Edmond (06:20):
to 60 hours a week, absolutely.
Who wants to Do you want to,sarah?
It's a sad time.
I know I can't do anything elsebecause then I'm so tired
because all I'm doing is working, not to mention almost all of
the people listening to thispodcast work in a creative area.
You cannot be consistently highquality creative for that many
hours a week and, I'm sorry,social media management.
A lot of that is managementstuff, but there's still a fair
(06:42):
amount of creativity andresponding to people and dealing
with people and relationshipsand you cannot maintain that
consistently at a high qualityfor that many hours a week.
Sarah Greesonbach (06:53):
So I'd like to put on my little devil ears
and my devil tail and be thedevil's advocate and grill you.
Okay, earlier we said unicornclients exist and they're not
unicorns.
They'll suggest that they payyou more, like that kind of
thing.
I think for both of us we'veexperienced that.
So if I'm Gage and I'm sayingTeresa, if I raise my rates,
(07:15):
they'll say bye-bye and replaceme.
What the F do I do?
What would you say to that?
Treasa Edmond (07:20):
How would you you replace them first Ooh, this is
.
We are in partnerships with ourclients.
We build relationships with ourclients.
We are not fricking married toour clients.
We are not dating them.
This is honestly about yourbusiness, and if that sounds
harsh, I'm so sorry people.
This is about your business andif that sounds harsh, I'm so
sorry people.
This is about your business.
(07:41):
You are an employee of yourbusiness.
Would you bring anotheremployee in and expect them to
do this?
No, you wouldn't.
Because it would make you feellike an asshat extreme.
Sarah Greesonbach (07:53):
You're just not going to do that.
Treasa Edmond (07:54):
You're not.
So you need to be treatingyourself with the same respect
you would treat any otheremployee.
And sometimes that is makinghard decisions on behalf of your
business.
And sometimes that is tellingthat client that you've worked
with for 10 years and you'venever raised your rate and
they're paying you way underminimum wage, which we don't
earn minimum wage, by the way.
You're telling them I adore you, I've loved working with you.
(08:18):
This is not feasible for mybusiness anymore.
I've raised my rates on everyother client up to this point.
I know that's out of yourbudget.
If you would still like to findanother capacity to continue
this relationship, I'm happy todo that.
Otherwise, I'm happy torecommend some beginning
freelancers to you who may beable to work at that rate.
And then you just keep going.
(08:38):
That's what you do.
So you have to make harddecisions for your business and
you have to have honestconversations with yourself
first and then with your client.
And if your client throws a fitand accuses you of being
disloyal because you've leftthem after that amount of time,
then they never reallyappreciated you anyway.
Sarah Greesonbach (09:04):
This is me doing the poetry reading,
clapping with the snapping.
It's poetry, that's great.
I'm trying not to be dumb, butit's like so many of the
questions from this week comedown to our fear and our
identity with ourselves.
And so Gage is saying I'mworking as hard as I can, I'm
doing great work, I love theseclients, but I'm suffering.
(09:25):
They need to feel the suffering.
Why are you the only one whocan suffer, Gage?
Like their budget should feelthe suffering, and if it here's
the most beautiful part of it atleast to me if it's not worth
more money to them, maybe theyshouldn't be doing it.
Maybe they don't need socialmedia if they can't pay more
than minimum wage for it.
Like these are the things thatI'm going through in my mind.
Treasa Edmond (09:47):
So, oh, go ahead.
No, go ahead.
I'm sorry sir.
Sarah Greesonbach (09:51):
I think I was faking that.
I had a next thing to say, sogo ahead.
Treasa Edmond (09:56):
So one thing I want to add here is your clients
.
It's their job to grumble aboutyour rates Sometimes.
It's their job to get the mostamount of work for the least
amount of money so they canstretch their budget as far as
it goes.
It has nothing to do with youas a person.
It has nothing to do with yourbusiness.
They, honestly, they might likeyou as a person, but that's not
(10:17):
their primary objective.
Their primary objective is toget the content or the design
work or the web design orwhatever it is, for the most
reasonable price possible, sothat they can afford to do other
things as well.
It's a business decision forthem and it needs to be a
business decision for you.
That's across the board.
Also, I have and, sarah, Idon't know if you've ever
(10:40):
experienced this, I've talked toso many people.
It's happened to and it'shappened to me all the time.
When you are CC'd in on an emailfrom your client to someone
else accidentally and you seehow much they are paying that
other person for the same thingyou do and you're like, ooh,
that hurts.
I talked to someone last weekjust in a conversation about an
(11:05):
agency that they'd worked withand they were at a rate that
they thought was really good.
The agency had talked them downa little bit which, by the way,
I never talk down my rates, Iwill talk down scope, but that's
the thing, that's a personaldecision but anyway, the agency
had talked them down on theirrates.
It was enough that it makes adifference.
And then they accidentally gotcc'd on an email three months
(11:29):
later where they found out thatthey were paying another
freelancer almost five timeswhat they were paying them for
the exact same thing.
And it happens.
Unless you stick up for yourrates, no one else is going to.
That's just, it's a thing.
Sarah Greesonbach (11:42):
Yeah, I've certainly been witness to in
some of my coaching clients,where they see what the agency
is charging the client for theirwork, with the agency not doing
anything, and it was literallylike six times as much.
Yeah, it was pretty astonishing.
Treasa Edmond (11:59):
Yep and I worked with I went in-house for a while
as I was pivoting so that Icould start this podcast and
have the space and time to dothat and strategy bosses and
I've been a ghostwriter foryears and I charge a premium for
ghostwriting now.
But if someone had asked me howmuch would you charge for a 60
page?
For years and I charge apremium for ghostwriting now but
if someone had asked me howmuch would you charge for a 60
page ebook, I probably wouldhave still given what I would
(12:20):
consider a reasonable but highend reasonable rate.
While I was in that in-houseposition, they signed a contract
for an ebook 60 pages, 60 pagesand they paid $50,000 for 60
pages and I'm like confidencethe company, the agency that
they were working with, nevereven blinked at giving that rate
(12:45):
to a potential client and theclients.
Obviously you're worth it andI'm like I've written this stuff
for well less than this, butthat's not ever happening again.
It's a two-part situation.
It's what you're comfortablecharging your clients, which in
the end doesn't matter, and it'swhat your clients are willing
to pay for high value work, andsometimes they're willing to pay
(13:07):
way more than you thought youwould, which is why I love
value-based pricing.
So, gage, you need to raiseyour rates and lose some clients
.
You need to do those things,and that's the only way you can
get over this hurdle that you'refacing.
You cannot stay where you areand expect things to change.
You need to raise your ratesand find new clients, and maybe
(13:27):
that means you need to go backto the drawing board on your
messaging and your clientoutreach and change who you're
reaching out to, because itmight not be the companies
you're currently working with.
Sarah Greesonbach (13:38):
I'd add a threat if you don't do that.
To quote the rock star andphilosopher Jonathan Stark it's
just a race to the bottom.
It's just them, pitting youagainst other people who would
be willing to charge less, andother people might have less
living expenses.
Treasa Edmond (13:55):
I think that's the first threat we've ever had
on boss responses.
So thank you.
Thank you for bringing that tothe table.
Sarah Greesonbach (14:00):
The only reason we're so emphatic about
this Gage is because youfreaking deserve a 20-hour
client work week.
Yes, two hours to just freaking, relax and go out for coffee
and to make the same amount ofmoney, like it is possible, and
I think that's why we're beingso grumpy about it.
I think we're mad at yourclients for being willing to pay
(14:24):
what they're paying.
Treasa Edmond (14:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm never going to tell someoneyou're not charging enough as a
scathing rebuke to them.
Sarah Greesonbach (14:31):
Right.
Treasa Edmond (14:31):
I'm telling you you're not charging enough
because you are worth so muchmore than that and the value
you're providing your clients isstratospherically different
from what you're actuallycharging.
So tough love in this case isactual love.
It's not critical feedback.
This is actually tough lovebecause we want you to do better
and sometimes you have to makethe tough decisions to do that.
Sarah Greesonbach (14:52):
That's our message.
We're not mean, we just loveyou real hard.
Treasa Edmond (14:56):
We do.
That's the benefit of age andexperience.
We get to love money a littlebit harder and we also speak
from experience.
So we've been where you are,We've charged those rates and
now we look back at it and we'relike we can't let this happen
to anyone else?
Yes, it's just, if we don'tspeak up for you, then who's
going to Anything else to add tothis one Sarah?
Sarah Greesonbach (15:19):
I did say I would share my waffle recipe.
Yes, it's dairy-free andgluten-free, so you can sub out
a couple different things, butwhat you'll want to do is mix
one egg with three-quarters cupsof your sugar of choice,
preferably granulated, sometimescoconut sugar, a little bit of
vanilla, a little bit of bakingsoda, and then we're going to do
(15:40):
one cup of almond flour andmaybe half a cup of arrowroot or
tapioca flour.
Mix that baby up and put it ona waffle griddle.
It's going to be great.
Treasa Edmond (15:51):
There you go, folks Our first Boss Responses
Threat and our first BossResponses recipe all in the same
day.
So we're going to break off andhave a podcast called Wes
Threat and our first BossResponses Recipe all in the same
day.
Sarah Greesonbach (15:58):
So we're going to break off and have a
podcast called Waffle Threat.
Yes that's funny, that'sawesome.
Treasa Edmond (16:06):
All right.
So it's been a fun week so farand thank you so much for being
here, Sarah.
Tomorrow, everyone needs totune in because we are talking
about one of those topics thatactually just comes really
nicely after the entire week.
We're going to have a prettydeep discussion on boundaries
and how you can create partnerrelationships with your clients
(16:27):
that will actually do more foryour business than you could
ever imagine.
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