March 15, 2024 • 30 mins
3/15/24
Botch Job Society
Episode 3 - Byte-Sized Ambitions: The Macintosh Flop
WATCH THE VIDEO VERSION ON OUR WEBSITE.
In this riveting episode of our podcast, we delve into the tumultuous journey of the Macintosh in 1984, a period that promised innovation but delivered an unexpected setback for Apple. Unlike the narratives that champion failure as a precursor to success, we strip away the silver linings to lay bare the raw and unembellished story of the Macintosh's challenges.
From the high hopes pinned on its launch, the ambitious expectations, to the stark realities of market reception and internal strife, we explore the factors that led to its initial downfall. Join us as we navigate the complexities of technological ambition, the harsh business realities of the 80s, and the lessons embedded in the Macintosh saga without the gloss of retrospective success. This episode is a journey back in time to understand not just a moment in tech history, but the unvarnished truth about failure and the resilience it demands.
[0:00] Opening
[1:54] Intro and Socials
[6:22] Ramero Tries the Mac
[14:17] Macintosh History and Failures
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
BotchJob Society is produced by Rock Opera Studios.
I want you to imagine ascenario where you put all of
your hard work and your effortand blood, sweat and tears into
this one thing that you truly,truly believe in, only to have
(00:21):
it not only fail, but it causesyou to lose social grace with
many people and also forces youto change career paths.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I feel like I've done that before.
Is that going?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
to be really hard for you to imagine.
It sounds a lot like my collegedegree, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm a little familiar with that.
Okay, sounds good.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
That is kind of how Steve Jobs felt in 1985 with the
Macintosh, which is what we'retalking about today, although it
has gained a lot of prominencenowadays.
I mean, it's the name for everycomputer that Apple puts out.
It was considered a failurewhen it was launched and we will
(01:08):
definitely get into it anddiscuss it.
There's still hope out there ofyour failure.
Maybe someday you could beSteve Jobs and then get cancer
and die.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
This one here.
Let me tell you what he's afailure, can you see?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
how maybe it would have been a failure.
Before we get into that, I wantto just plug some of our stuff
(01:59):
first, in case there's anybodyout there who is an idiot with
social media and doesn't knowanything about it.
We're on pretty much everything.
We may not have posted anythingyet on, so, but we're getting
there.
We want to make sure thatyou're there so that when we do
post you don't miss out.
(02:20):
So everywhere you can look forat BotchJob Society and that'll
be us a big BJS in the profilepicture, that's us.
That's us.
We have Mthreads, facebook,tiktok, youtube and Twitter are
where we are right now.
I think that's all of them.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Okay, and there's also I call it the one-stop shop
for everything our websitebotchjobsocietycom.
You will get all of ourepisodes there, all of the info,
updates, merch support, if youwant links?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Go get a T-shirt.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Please, if you want to support us, buying merch is
one way.
Another way is a link to ourPatreon.
There are many tiers to choosefrom, so whether you only want
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some good perks.
And if we're actually friends,I fully expect you to buy some
of the higher tiers If you're afriend of mine and you're
(03:20):
listening to my voice or seeingmy face on screen right now, and
you're not a patron on Patreon.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I'll refer to you.
What was that guy calledcommercial?
I unfriend you, that's not howthis works.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It's not how it works , but it is how it works, and
that's exactly what's going tohappen.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I'll block you in real life or fight you Either,
or yeah, either, or Probablyboth, but there's also a link
for Bisa Coffee.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
If you only want to help us out a little bit One
time, that's perfectlyacceptable.
And then there's also links toRate the podcast and that
actually helps us out more,probably, than money.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
We're having ratings and reviews, so if you like what
you hear from the first episodeor from this episode, then
please feel free to let us know.
But it also lets other peopleknow when they're searching for
podcasts and they see that wehave five stars.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
They're going to check us out.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Boost us up as much as possible.
Yeah, I need all the stars.
Yeah, please give us stars, weneed it.
I'm begging you.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
The last thing I want to plug before we can go on is
on our website, as alwaysvoicemails.
That's like one of the thingsthat we look forward to the most
, and nobody ever does it.
So if you want to hear yourvoice on the show, go, leave us
a voicemail, because nine timesout of ten we will play it.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I would actually really enjoy that.
You know, uncle Harry has leftus some in the past.
I need some more of those.
As embarrassing as this is toadmit, one of his son's names is
also Harry.
My dad's out of family withsome losers.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I think he should also leave a voicemail.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You know my friend Josh.
He's been watching our oldstuff even.
I'm so excited about this.
Josh leave a voicemail, justpretty much anybody, just don't
say anything stupid, like youknow yeah.
This is my Christian Minecraftserver is family friendly.
Please don't say anything dumbbut um.
We love voicemails.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah it's a great opportunity to get you all as a
part of the show withoutphysically having you right in
here, right which, if you checkthe patreon tiers, there is one
that gives you the chance toactually be physically on the
show.
So, martha, buy it.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I want to be on your pack as my here's your off shit.
Tap into the page, you knowexactly how to do it do it.
Yep, I take cash cash outthough.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So that's that.
But before we get into talkingabout the Macintosh, I would
like to Do a littledemonstration with you, because
I have a Macintosh for us to.
I'm gonna have you sort of sitdown in front of and see if you
can Work with it, because I wantto put you into the mindset of
(06:12):
so I know it's bad.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
But if go ahead.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Try put you in the mindset of everybody who bought
one in 1984, so let's go do thatreal quick.
Sounds good Right in front ofyou, yes, a Macintosh from 1984.
It is in working order.
I have tested it many times.
Yeah, so I'm gonna let you turnloose.
I'm gonna turn you loosebecause I want you to sort of
(06:37):
experience what somebody wouldopening it up for the first time
and figuring it out, becausethis was marketed as a Personal
computer for people who did notknow anything about about
computers.
Okay, so I think it's fair tosay that, even though you have
modern technology in your life,that this may be a bit of a
challenge.
Oh boy, go ahead and See if youcan figure this out here.
(06:59):
You know there is a backside tothis computer, got it.
You know, Gonna have to get up.
You're close.
No, you're not.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
This feels like one of those videos where you're
like reaching in the box tryingto figure out.
I Hear the beep, oh, oh, oh.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Okay, so now you see the floppy disk with a question
mark.
What do you think that couldmean?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
If you need to put something in this, or I need to
click it and I click it, I Needto connect this again no
necessarily no.
No, I can put it right here inthe front.
I can just use this one, Allright here you go got the happy
(08:02):
Mac little smiley guy.
Welcome to Macintosh.
I feel like I'm playing one ofthose old Pokemon games on a
Game Boy or something.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So now you see the system disk on the desktop.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Oh my.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So I want to preface this by saying that your
computer came with one disk thatwas called the system disk.
That really only had theoperating system on it.
So when you put it in thecomputer there were no games, no
apps, no, nothing on the disk.
You were stuck with what was onthat disk that it came with.
If you wanted to play a game.
(08:49):
You had to eject this disk, putit in another disk.
But the disk that you'reputting in also has to have the
operating system on it,otherwise the computer wouldn't
know what to do.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So that's what this one is for.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You could buy this if you wanted expansion, but this
was also not cheap.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
How much was the expansion?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I can't remember, but most people did not buy this.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I've already spent almost three grand on the
computer Exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, so most people did not buy this and they would
disk swap and they would have toeject and then put this one in,
and then put this one back in,and then put this one back in.
It looked like you're mimingsomething Trying to pull
somebody.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I could see how that's very inconvenient.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
A lot of hassle just to use your computer, and it
didn't need to be that way,we've got Mac Paint 1.3.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Let's see what Mac Paint's all about.
I love how fluid this mouse is.
It feels so great.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I'm lying.
This computer also did not havea fan in it.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
It did get good and hot.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Which was yeah, that was another, which we'll get
into some of the reasons why itfailed, but hardware was one of
them.
Oh, there you go.
Oh, come on, Uh-oh oh.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, Come on.
All right, That'll work.
Nice Now if I don't know how todo anything else.
I'm really good on these littledrawing and painting apps.
That's what I used to do inhigh school Spanish all the time
(10:26):
I was playing on the drawing.
When I wasn't impressing myteacher with my amazing skills.
I was for sure painting.
I got BJS pod on there, if youcan see it.
I don't know what you can andcan't see.
But, yeah, everything feelsvery wonky.
I will say that.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I'm sure that adding a mouse probably did feel very
strange to people, though.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, because most of the time your hands were always
on the keyboard typing.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Oh, I can't even see what I'm.
Yeah, you got to repositionthere we go, all right.
Everything feels like, yeah, alittle Weirdly close too, I type
all day at work, just so we'reclear.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I should be good at this.
At least you figured out Macpaint.
Most people couldn't evenfigure that out.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I like how very empty and hollow the keyboard sounds.
The mechanical.
It feels good to type on,though.
This is nice.
This mouse feels strangelyheavy, though.
It just feels very non-fluid,so we're going to go ahead.
How do we get out of there?
Wait, do you want to savechanges before closing?
(11:55):
Of course I don't, or maybe Ido.
No, you can just delete it.
Okay, Get me out of here.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Come on, mac, test it's hold.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
You have to hold.
I see now, yeah, what else wegot.
You got an alarm clock.
Everybody needs that, right.
It's in the control panel.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I'm surprised it loaded because I've gotten
before where it says there's notenough RAM.
You have to quit out of Macpaint before you can open the
control panel, which again we'llget into some of the
limitations.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Got the clock.
Calendar volume.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
This was a Y2K compatible computer because it
is registering the year 2024.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It did not stop at 1999.
This is all very interesting.
Get me out of here.
File quit, there we go.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You had the chance to experience it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I don't know why it wasn't a hit Are you being
sarcastic or serious.
This is such a great computer,especially because I don't have
to sit here and keep swapping.
No, I could totally see whypeople wouldn't be a fan.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I think you have an unfair advantage that you've
been around computers prettymuch most of your life, yeah so
you know mostly how to work them, whereas people buying this in
1984 would be a what?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
is this?
Don't even know where to startRight Now.
For sure I had only been usedto keyboard little box, and then
you threw this thing in here.
I'd be like what, yeah, what isthis?
I could see for sure some ofthe flaws.
Like you said, the diskswapping thing is a little
excessive, or the fact that youmight not be able to open up
(13:47):
more than one thing at a timebecause of the RAM.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
It's like if I got to buy add-ons to run multiple
things and let my computer allowme to do multiple things.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Not quite the revolution they were expecting.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, especially when it costs this much Right.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Well, you've had the chance to take a look.
We'll go back and we'll talkabout some of the reasons why it
failed and just sort of ageneral history.
Good deal.
So now you've had the chance tobe face-to-face with one and
experience what somebody from1984 would have experienced, can
you see how maybe it would havebeen a failure?
(14:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
First of all, way too expensive.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And I mean it wasn't terrible, but definitely a lot
of room for improvement.
It's a good thing they figuredthat out eventually, but at the
time it took a while it reallystarted in 1979.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
This guy named Jeff Raskin, who wanted a bit more
easier to use computer becauseat the time computers were still
you had to remember commandsand you had to.
I mean, it was just a keyboardand a screen and there was no
mouse, no, nothing.
So that's sort of how it wasconceived and Steve Jobs fashion
(15:10):
, just sort of inserted himselfinto the situation and said well
, I'm going to work on this now,this is going to be my thing,
and too bad, pretty much.
So what was different aboutthis one versus other computers
that Apple had been putting outof the time was that it was an
all-in-one, compact design.
Before that, there were stilllittle bulky bits and pieces
(15:33):
that you still had to buyoutside of the main computer.
So this was meant to solvethose problems and it was the
first to have the graphical userdisplay with a mouse and a
cursor and a pointer, everything.
So it was very different fromeverything else.
Steve Jobs was also, again inSteve Jobs fashion, wanting
(15:53):
everything to be aestheticallypleasing and beautiful looking
things that people did not careabout at the time.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Right, it was a visionary, they just didn't see
it.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yet this is going to turn into some sort of like
Steve Jobs, like he was a geniusand things Like.
Well, he had a lot of bad partsthat Just gloss over it.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That's what we always do.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Everybody does that.
So that's why this one was alittle bit different and why it
was sort of expected to take off, because it was vastly
different than anything elsereally that had been put out at
the time.
So it was released on January21st 1984.
I don't know if you're familiarwith the big Super Bowl
commercial that they put outbeforehand that.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Have you not seen this commercial?
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I don't think so.
Okay, I'll have to show youthis commercial.
Today we celebrate the firstglorious anniversary of the
information purificationpredictors.
We have created, for the mosttiny old history, a garden of
pure ideology where each workermade bloom, secure from the
(17:03):
pests of incompletely dirtyreports.
Our unification of the wars ismore powerful a weapon than any
fleet.
What are they on earth?
We are one people, we one will,one resolve, one cause.
Our enemies shall talkthemselves to death and we will
(17:24):
bury them with their ownconfusion.
We shall prevail.
On January 24th, apple Computerwill introduce Macintosh and
you'll see why 1984 won't belike 1984.
So, getting into some of thereasons why it was a failure, I
(17:49):
think first and foremost was thevery high price point.
It's ridiculous.
It's $2,500 and this was in1984.
Yeah, I mean, you always havepeople who were around that time
saying how milk was like anickel and gas was you know 50
cents, whatever Right.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So you can imagine.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
how Everything was so cheap.
Right, you can imagine how much$2,500 would be at that time
For a computer.
Well, I mean it's ridiculous,because you probably could get
something like a base modelcomputer for we'll say like a
thousand you know, so imaginethis computer that already,
(18:26):
which we're given to like can'tdo very much causing $2,500.
It's ridiculous, no, and I cansee why now.
It did not sell as well aspeople were expecting.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Second, I almost wondered, like what was the
thought behind that?
Sorry?
Like what made you think, right, oh, this is totally worth it?
Well, the average consumerwould love this price point
Again Steve Jobs just being likeoh, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
That's how much it's going to cost.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And people, you know people will love it, people will
buy it, and that's sort of Likeeventually he was right with
$900 phone, but you know at thattime $2,500 for a computer.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Well, we'll get into how his thought process behind
that price is sort of why heended up leaving the company.
But so, besides price, softwarelimitation, people were not
making software for it becausethey're just sort of like we
don't really know what's goodbut also it's so brand new.
(19:24):
Think about that, like with ascreen and you know, graphics
and stuff, people were not liketheir brains couldn't think of
things to do for it, you knowbecause, everything at that
point was just text based.
Well, they did.
I guess they did have computergames with, you know, little
figures and stuff, but toincorporate things like a mouse,
(19:45):
you know, they're sort of likeI don't know what to do.
How do you even use this thingRight?
The other thing was that itdidn't have enough memory in it
Very low, I mean, compared totoday.
Obviously it's going to be low,but back then it was still
relatively low.
You couldn't really run a wholebunch on it.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
You do too much on it .
Right For the little stuff thatwas available.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
It was also closed architecture, so it was way hard
to upgrade as a consumer, whichwas kind of a big deal.
In that time People wereupgrading and modding their
computers and with this one it'slike you can't really do
anything with it.
There's no.
I mean, there's like one portin the back and that's for an
(20:24):
extra hard drive.
You know, there's reallynothing you can do or extra disk
drive.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
A lot of limited functionality issues with it,
which?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
you can see is reflected in the way Apple does
things today, Like it's reallyhard to upgrade your own machine
and that's just the way that.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Steve Enge wanted it One port.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
The other thing was that it didn't.
It didn't have a hard driveincluded with it, which was sort
of a given.
It should but it didn't and youhad to run things off of discs.
You could buy an external harddrive, but that came later,
right, so buying it straight outin 1984 it was just a disc
(21:08):
drive on the front and that's it, and you know those things
didn't hold well compared totoday, didn't hold very much but
, even back then didn't reallyhold much.
So there's a.
You hear stories about peoplediscs swapping all the time
because they had to take out thesystem disc and put it.
You know whatever.
So Can imagine that that wouldcause some difficulty.
Lack of marketing we alreadytalked about the commercial.
(21:30):
That was about it.
I mean they had one hit quit.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
They did have other ads, that's it.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
They had other ads, but it was.
It was just not marketed verywell and people.
Again, we're just like I don'tknow what to do with it so, and
sort of.
Lastly, there was a lot ofinternal company conflict with
this machine because again wetalked about how Steve Jobs
priced it so high.
And, yeah, the people who I sayyou know no better, the board
(21:57):
members, which All they thinkabout is money.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Of course, of course they were.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
They were not pleased with this and it was not
selling and they believed it wasbecause of the, the price point
and and Steve was like well, no, and no, it's because it's bad.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's not their price, it's just a bad computer.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's just not Compared to anything else that
was out at the time.
Yeah, it really was notAnything special and people just
did again, did not know what todo with, not moved by it, right
, especially at that price point, right.
So ultimately in 1985, thiscaused Steve Jobs to be ousted
from the company.
He went on to to Other thingsand, as we all know, eventually
(22:41):
came back, but it was reallybecause of the Macintosh that
that really things Started goingdownhill at Apple.
Really, especially in the 90s,like Apple was not popular.
People were not buying theircomputers because they were all
pretty much junk.
And it's just so strange to seehow something that now, like
(23:04):
you when you talk about thehouse whole thing right, is it
back?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
then it was just not or even to know the like in the
90s.
It was still kind of like inthe Failure years but when you
think of the early 2000s when wewere growing up?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, those Mac computers were all over like the
libraries and the Computer labs, and well, that's, that's what
started the comeback.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, you know it was 2000s.
They finally started figuringit out.
Yeah, it's crazy to think now.
Yeah well, you guys used tosuck.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
But I think it's easy to see how you know, because
when you're messing around withit it's just sort of it's, it's
a cool con box, that's right allthat.
It is because, you don't know,it's not a ton you can.
Even after that sort ofcomputer with like a graphical
user interface and stuff becamethe norm.
It still was really like.
(23:54):
This is really not much to youknow, you can type up a document
and Maybe play game, but it wasnot the way they add a lot to
it right, right.
It's just such a strange.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Stick it into the man avoiding 1984 right by typing.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
The innovative Next-year spreadsheets earth
shattering stuff right therenext thing PowerPoint, oh that's
this slideshow.
Let's, let's not get ahead ofourselves here.
That's, that's a little waysoff.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
No transitions, it's just a different word.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
We don't even know what a JPEG is yet, so fair,
fair.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Hey, I think, uh, I Think that idea of like, knowing
, like, oh no, this is, this isgonna be the thing, like I feel,
like that stuck around For along time without it ever
actually being yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, so it's like you.
It's interesting to see whenthey finally got over the hump.
Which brings me to my nextpoint when?
When do I get over the hump?
When does my life Make thisdramatic turnaround and I've
become just this booming,successful person?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, well, you have to.
You have to be dug down intothe trenches before you can be
pulled back up.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I Don't know how much further down you like, I feel
like I'm at the bottom very wellfeeling some rock here.
Foundation is kicking in, so ifyou do want to look at some of
the silver linings of it.
You know we do broadcast a lotof the failure.
That's part of the point of theshow.
But on the bright side,obviously there's the impact
(25:36):
factor and really just thelegacy of the computer is bad
computer it, that's not inquestion at all.
But from there forward, mm-hmm,apple started releasing
everything under that MacintoshBrand, whereas he's just be
Apple random number this this orthat, yeah so now, like even
today, we have our Mac books.
There was the iMacs to this andthat that's all from Macintosh
(25:59):
right.
So they they took the worstthing ever did.
It made it the brand name foreverything they've done, since
most of them have been good Um.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Say I wouldn't say the worst thing because there is
another episode idea that Ihave.
That's another Apple devicethat is probably considered the
worst, but this would be a closesecond.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I would say it's up there, it's up there and it's
again.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Only reason why it's such a legacy now is because
it's a collector's item.
Yeah and it.
There was such a big deal madeabout it in 1984 and that's
let's sell that one.
Yeah, what's?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
the market look like I bought that one for myself.
What's the market like?
Upcharge it a little bit.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Funnily enough, depending on the condition of
the Macintosh, the price pointreally hasn't changed.
There's still about $2,500.
But considering inflation,$2,500 now is probably less than
it would have cost back then.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Valid.
Valid yeah In the market.
I know a guy.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
It's in working order .
At least you know that.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
It works.
Yeah, it's not really worthanything A 40-year-old machine,
but if you want it, talk to myguy.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Well, that's pretty much the first invention that
we've talked about that wasconsidered a failure.
I have lots more.
Strangely, a lot of stuff outof the 80s were failures.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
We'll get into some of those.
It's like the turn of thecentury.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It's really not like the century, but you know what I
mean.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I feel like the 80s brought in a lot of fresh and
newer ideas, and approaches tothings, but that was the
foundational let's see if itworks here.
The 90s and 2000s is where itfinally started picking up.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I would say the 90s and early 2000s are the golden
age.
I feel like the 80s was theexperimental age.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
That was the caveman with the wheel trying to make it
and then the 90s and 2000s.
It's like, oh no, we got it.
Real wheels yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And then at some point in the 2000s, the clock
was turned back.
Just sit right here and regressa little bit.
I think now we're sort of in agolden age because of all these
advances with AI.
But I also think things aregetting way too fast.
Yeah, a little bit.
Yeah, I will freak out by it.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I don't know how to feel about it.
Apparently so was Apple withIBM in 1984.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
They were freaked out about it.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Maybe they're stupid commercials.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
But yeah, I think it's a fun topic because there's
another one that I really wantto talk about soon that it's
just so funny to see theconfidence and to have it
completely crash and burn.
It's bittersweet to watch,because you love to see other
people fail for something thatthey were so confident about
(29:06):
which, if you're hoping.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
That's so terrible.
I know You're not wrong.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
If you're hoping that's the case with this
podcast, please let us know.
And we will deal with that.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
accordingly, might have something in store for you.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Might have an episode about you, this one here let me
tell you why he's a failure.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
What about that degree that?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
first marriage of those kids.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
They're listing off everything you've messed up in
life.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
It's on brand, it's on brand.
Anyway, yeah, cut all of that.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I can't let the people know I'm not a nice guy.
Do you want me to delete that?
Everything Start fresh fromwhat were we talking about?
Let's start with 1984 again.
Clean slate.
BotchJob Society is produced by Rock Opera Studios.
I want you to imagine ascenario where you put all of
your hard work and your effortand blood, sweat and tears into
this one thing that you truly,truly believe in, only to have
(00:21):
it not only fail, but it causesyou to lose social grace with
many people and also forces youto change career paths.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I feel like I've done that before.
Is that going?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
to be really hard for you to imagine.
It sounds a lot like my collegedegree, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm a little familiar with that.
Okay, sounds good.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
That is kind of how Steve Jobs felt in 1985 with the
Macintosh, which is what we'retalking about today, although it
has gained a lot of prominencenowadays.
I mean, it's the name for everycomputer that Apple puts out.
It was considered a failurewhen it was launched and we will
(01:08):
definitely get into it anddiscuss it.
There's still hope out there ofyour failure.
Maybe someday you could beSteve Jobs and then get cancer
and die.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
This one here.
Let me tell you what he's afailure, can you see?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
how maybe it would have been a failure.
Before we get into that, I wantto just plug some of our stuff
(01:59):
first, in case there's anybodyout there who is an idiot with
social media and doesn't knowanything about it.
We're on pretty much everything.
We may not have posted anythingyet on, so, but we're getting
there.
We want to make sure thatyou're there so that when we do
post you don't miss out.
(02:20):
So everywhere you can look forat BotchJob Society and that'll
be us a big BJS in the profilepicture, that's us.
That's us.
We have Mthreads, facebook,tiktok, youtube and Twitter are
where we are right now.
I think that's all of them.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Okay, and there's also I call it the one-stop shop
for everything our websitebotchjobsocietycom.
You will get all of ourepisodes there, all of the info,
updates, merch support, if youwant links?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Go get a T-shirt.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Please, if you want to support us, buying merch is
one way.
Another way is a link to ourPatreon.
There are many tiers to choosefrom, so whether you only want
to pay a little bit or a lot,there's something for you with
some good perks.
And if we're actually friends,I fully expect you to buy some
of the higher tiers If you're afriend of mine and you're
(03:20):
listening to my voice or seeingmy face on screen right now, and
you're not a patron on Patreon.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I'll refer to you.
What was that guy calledcommercial?
I unfriend you, that's not howthis works.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It's not how it works , but it is how it works, and
that's exactly what's going tohappen.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I'll block you in real life or fight you Either,
or yeah, either, or Probablyboth, but there's also a link
for Bisa Coffee.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
If you only want to help us out a little bit One
time, that's perfectlyacceptable.
And then there's also links toRate the podcast and that
actually helps us out more,probably, than money.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
We're having ratings and reviews, so if you like what
you hear from the first episodeor from this episode, then
please feel free to let us know.
But it also lets other peopleknow when they're searching for
podcasts and they see that wehave five stars.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
They're going to check us out.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Boost us up as much as possible.
Yeah, I need all the stars.
Yeah, please give us stars, weneed it.
I'm begging you.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
The last thing I want to plug before we can go on is
on our website, as alwaysvoicemails.
That's like one of the thingsthat we look forward to the most
, and nobody ever does it.
So if you want to hear yourvoice on the show, go, leave us
a voicemail, because nine timesout of ten we will play it.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I would actually really enjoy that.
You know, uncle Harry has leftus some in the past.
I need some more of those.
As embarrassing as this is toadmit, one of his son's names is
also Harry.
My dad's out of family withsome losers.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I think he should also leave a voicemail.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You know my friend Josh.
He's been watching our oldstuff even.
I'm so excited about this.
Josh leave a voicemail, justpretty much anybody, just don't
say anything stupid, like youknow yeah.
This is my Christian Minecraftserver is family friendly.
Please don't say anything dumbbut um.
We love voicemails.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah it's a great opportunity to get you all as a
part of the show withoutphysically having you right in
here, right which, if you checkthe patreon tiers, there is one
that gives you the chance toactually be physically on the
show.
So, martha, buy it.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I want to be on your pack as my here's your off shit.
Tap into the page, you knowexactly how to do it do it.
Yep, I take cash cash outthough.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So that's that.
But before we get into talkingabout the Macintosh, I would
like to Do a littledemonstration with you, because
I have a Macintosh for us to.
I'm gonna have you sort of sitdown in front of and see if you
can Work with it, because I wantto put you into the mindset of
(06:12):
so I know it's bad.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
But if go ahead.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Try put you in the mindset of everybody who bought
one in 1984, so let's go do thatreal quick.
Sounds good Right in front ofyou, yes, a Macintosh from 1984.
It is in working order.
I have tested it many times.
Yeah, so I'm gonna let you turnloose.
I'm gonna turn you loosebecause I want you to sort of
(06:37):
experience what somebody wouldopening it up for the first time
and figuring it out, becausethis was marketed as a Personal
computer for people who did notknow anything about about
computers.
Okay, so I think it's fair tosay that, even though you have
modern technology in your life,that this may be a bit of a
challenge.
Oh boy, go ahead and See if youcan figure this out here.
(06:59):
You know there is a backside tothis computer, got it.
You know, Gonna have to get up.
You're close.
No, you're not.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
This feels like one of those videos where you're
like reaching in the box tryingto figure out.
I Hear the beep, oh, oh, oh.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Okay, so now you see the floppy disk with a question
mark.
What do you think that couldmean?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
If you need to put something in this, or I need to
click it and I click it, I Needto connect this again no
necessarily no.
No, I can put it right here inthe front.
I can just use this one, Allright here you go got the happy
(08:02):
Mac little smiley guy.
Welcome to Macintosh.
I feel like I'm playing one ofthose old Pokemon games on a
Game Boy or something.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So now you see the system disk on the desktop.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Oh my.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So I want to preface this by saying that your
computer came with one disk thatwas called the system disk.
That really only had theoperating system on it.
So when you put it in thecomputer there were no games, no
apps, no, nothing on the disk.
You were stuck with what was onthat disk that it came with.
If you wanted to play a game.
(08:49):
You had to eject this disk, putit in another disk.
But the disk that you'reputting in also has to have the
operating system on it,otherwise the computer wouldn't
know what to do.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So that's what this one is for.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You could buy this if you wanted expansion, but this
was also not cheap.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
How much was the expansion?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I can't remember, but most people did not buy this.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I've already spent almost three grand on the
computer Exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, so most people did not buy this and they would
disk swap and they would have toeject and then put this one in,
and then put this one back in,and then put this one back in.
It looked like you're mimingsomething Trying to pull
somebody.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I could see how that's very inconvenient.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
A lot of hassle just to use your computer, and it
didn't need to be that way,we've got Mac Paint 1.3.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Let's see what Mac Paint's all about.
I love how fluid this mouse is.
It feels so great.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I'm lying.
This computer also did not havea fan in it.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
It did get good and hot.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Which was yeah, that was another, which we'll get
into some of the reasons why itfailed, but hardware was one of
them.
Oh, there you go.
Oh, come on, Uh-oh oh.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, Come on.
All right, That'll work.
Nice Now if I don't know how todo anything else.
I'm really good on these littledrawing and painting apps.
That's what I used to do inhigh school Spanish all the time
(10:26):
I was playing on the drawing.
When I wasn't impressing myteacher with my amazing skills.
I was for sure painting.
I got BJS pod on there, if youcan see it.
I don't know what you can andcan't see.
But, yeah, everything feelsvery wonky.
I will say that.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I'm sure that adding a mouse probably did feel very
strange to people, though.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, because most of the time your hands were always
on the keyboard typing.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Oh, I can't even see what I'm.
Yeah, you got to repositionthere we go, all right.
Everything feels like, yeah, alittle Weirdly close too, I type
all day at work, just so we'reclear.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I should be good at this.
At least you figured out Macpaint.
Most people couldn't evenfigure that out.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I like how very empty and hollow the keyboard sounds.
The mechanical.
It feels good to type on,though.
This is nice.
This mouse feels strangelyheavy, though.
It just feels very non-fluid,so we're going to go ahead.
How do we get out of there?
Wait, do you want to savechanges before closing?
(11:55):
Of course I don't, or maybe Ido.
No, you can just delete it.
Okay, Get me out of here.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Come on, mac, test it's hold.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
You have to hold.
I see now, yeah, what else wegot.
You got an alarm clock.
Everybody needs that, right.
It's in the control panel.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I'm surprised it loaded because I've gotten
before where it says there's notenough RAM.
You have to quit out of Macpaint before you can open the
control panel, which again we'llget into some of the
limitations.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Got the clock.
Calendar volume.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
This was a Y2K compatible computer because it
is registering the year 2024.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It did not stop at 1999.
This is all very interesting.
Get me out of here.
File quit, there we go.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You had the chance to experience it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I don't know why it wasn't a hit Are you being
sarcastic or serious.
This is such a great computer,especially because I don't have
to sit here and keep swapping.
No, I could totally see whypeople wouldn't be a fan.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I think you have an unfair advantage that you've
been around computers prettymuch most of your life, yeah so
you know mostly how to work them, whereas people buying this in
1984 would be a what?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
is this?
Don't even know where to startRight Now.
For sure I had only been usedto keyboard little box, and then
you threw this thing in here.
I'd be like what, yeah, what isthis?
I could see for sure some ofthe flaws.
Like you said, the diskswapping thing is a little
excessive, or the fact that youmight not be able to open up
(13:47):
more than one thing at a timebecause of the RAM.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
It's like if I got to buy add-ons to run multiple
things and let my computer allowme to do multiple things.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Not quite the revolution they were expecting.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, especially when it costs this much Right.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Well, you've had the chance to take a look.
We'll go back and we'll talkabout some of the reasons why it
failed and just sort of ageneral history.
Good deal.
So now you've had the chance tobe face-to-face with one and
experience what somebody from1984 would have experienced, can
you see how maybe it would havebeen a failure?
(14:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
First of all, way too expensive.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And I mean it wasn't terrible, but definitely a lot
of room for improvement.
It's a good thing they figuredthat out eventually, but at the
time it took a while it reallystarted in 1979.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
This guy named Jeff Raskin, who wanted a bit more
easier to use computer becauseat the time computers were still
you had to remember commandsand you had to.
I mean, it was just a keyboardand a screen and there was no
mouse, no, nothing.
So that's sort of how it wasconceived and Steve Jobs fashion
(15:10):
, just sort of inserted himselfinto the situation and said well
, I'm going to work on this now,this is going to be my thing,
and too bad, pretty much.
So what was different aboutthis one versus other computers
that Apple had been putting outof the time was that it was an
all-in-one, compact design.
Before that, there were stilllittle bulky bits and pieces
(15:33):
that you still had to buyoutside of the main computer.
So this was meant to solvethose problems and it was the
first to have the graphical userdisplay with a mouse and a
cursor and a pointer, everything.
So it was very different fromeverything else.
Steve Jobs was also, again inSteve Jobs fashion, wanting
(15:53):
everything to be aestheticallypleasing and beautiful looking
things that people did not careabout at the time.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Right, it was a visionary, they just didn't see
it.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yet this is going to turn into some sort of like
Steve Jobs, like he was a geniusand things Like.
Well, he had a lot of bad partsthat Just gloss over it.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That's what we always do.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Everybody does that.
So that's why this one was alittle bit different and why it
was sort of expected to take off, because it was vastly
different than anything elsereally that had been put out at
the time.
So it was released on January21st 1984.
I don't know if you're familiarwith the big Super Bowl
commercial that they put outbeforehand that.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Have you not seen this commercial?
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I don't think so.
Okay, I'll have to show youthis commercial.
Today we celebrate the firstglorious anniversary of the
information purificationpredictors.
We have created, for the mosttiny old history, a garden of
pure ideology where each workermade bloom, secure from the
(17:03):
pests of incompletely dirtyreports.
Our unification of the wars ismore powerful a weapon than any
fleet.
What are they on earth?
We are one people, we one will,one resolve, one cause.
Our enemies shall talkthemselves to death and we will
(17:24):
bury them with their ownconfusion.
We shall prevail.
On January 24th, apple Computerwill introduce Macintosh and
you'll see why 1984 won't belike 1984.
So, getting into some of thereasons why it was a failure, I
(17:49):
think first and foremost was thevery high price point.
It's ridiculous.
It's $2,500 and this was in1984.
Yeah, I mean, you always havepeople who were around that time
saying how milk was like anickel and gas was you know 50
cents, whatever Right.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So you can imagine.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
how Everything was so cheap.
Right, you can imagine how much$2,500 would be at that time
For a computer.
Well, I mean it's ridiculous,because you probably could get
something like a base modelcomputer for we'll say like a
thousand you know, so imaginethis computer that already,
(18:26):
which we're given to like can'tdo very much causing $2,500.
It's ridiculous, no, and I cansee why now.
It did not sell as well aspeople were expecting.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Second, I almost wondered, like what was the
thought behind that?
Sorry?
Like what made you think, right, oh, this is totally worth it?
Well, the average consumerwould love this price point
Again Steve Jobs just being likeoh, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
That's how much it's going to cost.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And people, you know people will love it, people will
buy it, and that's sort of Likeeventually he was right with
$900 phone, but you know at thattime $2,500 for a computer.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Well, we'll get into how his thought process behind
that price is sort of why heended up leaving the company.
But so, besides price, softwarelimitation, people were not
making software for it becausethey're just sort of like we
don't really know what's goodbut also it's so brand new.
(19:24):
Think about that, like with ascreen and you know, graphics
and stuff, people were not liketheir brains couldn't think of
things to do for it, you knowbecause, everything at that
point was just text based.
Well, they did.
I guess they did have computergames with, you know, little
figures and stuff, but toincorporate things like a mouse,
(19:45):
you know, they're sort of likeI don't know what to do.
How do you even use this thingRight?
The other thing was that itdidn't have enough memory in it
Very low, I mean, compared totoday.
Obviously it's going to be low,but back then it was still
relatively low.
You couldn't really run a wholebunch on it.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
You do too much on it .
Right For the little stuff thatwas available.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
It was also closed architecture, so it was way hard
to upgrade as a consumer, whichwas kind of a big deal.
In that time People wereupgrading and modding their
computers and with this one it'slike you can't really do
anything with it.
There's no.
I mean, there's like one portin the back and that's for an
(20:24):
extra hard drive.
You know, there's reallynothing you can do or extra disk
drive.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
A lot of limited functionality issues with it,
which?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
you can see is reflected in the way Apple does
things today, Like it's reallyhard to upgrade your own machine
and that's just the way that.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Steve Enge wanted it One port.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
The other thing was that it didn't.
It didn't have a hard driveincluded with it, which was sort
of a given.
It should but it didn't and youhad to run things off of discs.
You could buy an external harddrive, but that came later,
right, so buying it straight outin 1984 it was just a disc
(21:08):
drive on the front and that's it, and you know those things
didn't hold well compared totoday, didn't hold very much but
, even back then didn't reallyhold much.
So there's a.
You hear stories about peoplediscs swapping all the time
because they had to take out thesystem disc and put it.
You know whatever.
So Can imagine that that wouldcause some difficulty.
Lack of marketing we alreadytalked about the commercial.
(21:30):
That was about it.
I mean they had one hit quit.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
They did have other ads, that's it.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
They had other ads, but it was.
It was just not marketed verywell and people.
Again, we're just like I don'tknow what to do with it so, and
sort of.
Lastly, there was a lot ofinternal company conflict with
this machine because again wetalked about how Steve Jobs
priced it so high.
And, yeah, the people who I sayyou know no better, the board
(21:57):
members, which All they thinkabout is money.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Of course, of course they were.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
They were not pleased with this and it was not
selling and they believed it wasbecause of the, the price point
and and Steve was like well, no, and no, it's because it's bad.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's not their price, it's just a bad computer.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's just not Compared to anything else that
was out at the time.
Yeah, it really was notAnything special and people just
did again, did not know what todo with, not moved by it, right
, especially at that price point, right.
So ultimately in 1985, thiscaused Steve Jobs to be ousted
from the company.
He went on to to Other thingsand, as we all know, eventually
(22:41):
came back, but it was reallybecause of the Macintosh that
that really things Started goingdownhill at Apple.
Really, especially in the 90s,like Apple was not popular.
People were not buying theircomputers because they were all
pretty much junk.
And it's just so strange to seehow something that now, like
(23:04):
you when you talk about thehouse whole thing right, is it
back?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
then it was just not or even to know the like in the
90s.
It was still kind of like inthe Failure years but when you
think of the early 2000s when wewere growing up?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, those Mac computers were all over like the
libraries and the Computer labs, and well, that's, that's what
started the comeback.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, you know it was 2000s.
They finally started figuringit out.
Yeah, it's crazy to think now.
Yeah well, you guys used tosuck.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
But I think it's easy to see how you know, because
when you're messing around withit it's just sort of it's, it's
a cool con box, that's right allthat.
It is because, you don't know,it's not a ton you can.
Even after that sort ofcomputer with like a graphical
user interface and stuff becamethe norm.
It still was really like.
(23:54):
This is really not much to youknow, you can type up a document
and Maybe play game, but it wasnot the way they add a lot to
it right, right.
It's just such a strange.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Stick it into the man avoiding 1984 right by typing.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
The innovative Next-year spreadsheets earth
shattering stuff right therenext thing PowerPoint, oh that's
this slideshow.
Let's, let's not get ahead ofourselves here.
That's, that's a little waysoff.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
No transitions, it's just a different word.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
We don't even know what a JPEG is yet, so fair,
fair.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Hey, I think, uh, I Think that idea of like, knowing
, like, oh no, this is, this isgonna be the thing, like I feel,
like that stuck around For along time without it ever
actually being yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, so it's like you.
It's interesting to see whenthey finally got over the hump.
Which brings me to my nextpoint when?
When do I get over the hump?
When does my life Make thisdramatic turnaround and I've
become just this booming,successful person?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, well, you have to.
You have to be dug down intothe trenches before you can be
pulled back up.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I Don't know how much further down you like, I feel
like I'm at the bottom very wellfeeling some rock here.
Foundation is kicking in, so ifyou do want to look at some of
the silver linings of it.
You know we do broadcast a lotof the failure.
That's part of the point of theshow.
But on the bright side,obviously there's the impact
(25:36):
factor and really just thelegacy of the computer is bad
computer it, that's not inquestion at all.
But from there forward, mm-hmm,apple started releasing
everything under that MacintoshBrand, whereas he's just be
Apple random number this this orthat, yeah so now, like even
today, we have our Mac books.
There was the iMacs to this andthat that's all from Macintosh
(25:59):
right.
So they they took the worstthing ever did.
It made it the brand name foreverything they've done, since
most of them have been good Um.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Say I wouldn't say the worst thing because there is
another episode idea that Ihave.
That's another Apple devicethat is probably considered the
worst, but this would be a closesecond.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I would say it's up there, it's up there and it's
again.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Only reason why it's such a legacy now is because
it's a collector's item.
Yeah and it.
There was such a big deal madeabout it in 1984 and that's
let's sell that one.
Yeah, what's?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
the market look like I bought that one for myself.
What's the market like?
Upcharge it a little bit.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Funnily enough, depending on the condition of
the Macintosh, the price pointreally hasn't changed.
There's still about $2,500.
But considering inflation,$2,500 now is probably less than
it would have cost back then.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Valid.
Valid yeah In the market.
I know a guy.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
It's in working order .
At least you know that.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
It works.
Yeah, it's not really worthanything A 40-year-old machine,
but if you want it, talk to myguy.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Well, that's pretty much the first invention that
we've talked about that wasconsidered a failure.
I have lots more.
Strangely, a lot of stuff outof the 80s were failures.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
We'll get into some of those.
It's like the turn of thecentury.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It's really not like the century, but you know what I
mean.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I feel like the 80s brought in a lot of fresh and
newer ideas, and approaches tothings, but that was the
foundational let's see if itworks here.
The 90s and 2000s is where itfinally started picking up.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I would say the 90s and early 2000s are the golden
age.
I feel like the 80s was theexperimental age.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
That was the caveman with the wheel trying to make it
and then the 90s and 2000s.
It's like, oh no, we got it.
Real wheels yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And then at some point in the 2000s, the clock
was turned back.
Just sit right here and regressa little bit.
I think now we're sort of in agolden age because of all these
advances with AI.
But I also think things aregetting way too fast.
Yeah, a little bit.
Yeah, I will freak out by it.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I don't know how to feel about it.
Apparently so was Apple withIBM in 1984.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
They were freaked out about it.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Maybe they're stupid commercials.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
But yeah, I think it's a fun topic because there's
another one that I really wantto talk about soon that it's
just so funny to see theconfidence and to have it
completely crash and burn.
It's bittersweet to watch,because you love to see other
people fail for something thatthey were so confident about
(29:06):
which, if you're hoping.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
That's so terrible.
I know You're not wrong.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
If you're hoping that's the case with this
podcast, please let us know.
And we will deal with that.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
accordingly, might have something in store for you.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Might have an episode about you, this one here let me
tell you why he's a failure.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
What about that degree that?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
first marriage of those kids.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
They're listing off everything you've messed up in
life.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
It's on brand, it's on brand.
Anyway, yeah, cut all of that.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I can't let the people know I'm not a nice guy.
Do you want me to delete that?
Everything Start fresh fromwhat were we talking about?
Let's start with 1984 again.
Clean slate.
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