Know the Enemy: Wake Forest

This week we welcome Cam Lemons Debro from the Demon Deacon Digest and the Inside the Forest podcast to help us get to Know the Enemy ahead of Saturday's tilt against Wake Forest in Blacksburg.

Episode Transcript

(01:48):
And welcome back to the BoundaryCorner podcast.
Stay part of the College Total Network along with my partner
Brian Siegel and Jonathan Tally.I am Curtis Wilson and we are
brought to you by Doctor Jeremy Counts down at the Counts Family
Pharmacy, your Philly neighborhood pharmacy located at
Three O 1 S Main St. in Blacksburg.
We are also brought to you by Moments on the Moray.

(02:10):
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(02:32):
outside your back door. Check out our link in the
comments section or on Instagramat Moments on themaury.com.
Fellas, what's going on? Victory Podcast.
A real victory podcast. What is?
What is this man? No one saw this one coming.

(02:52):
No one saw this one coming, No. One saw this one coming.
Everybody was sideways last week.
Everybody's down in the dumps. But that's why you play the game
right? That's why you.
Play the game. That's why we play the game.
Yes, I will be turning around over the next few minutes even
when our guest is here. Cameron, appreciate you coming

(03:14):
on, but I know you're a baseballfan, so you understand what's
going on behind me when you comein here in a second.
These two guys do as well. He gave up bases loaded and he
struck them out. OK, whatever.
I'm going to try my best for at least the first few minutes here
tonight, but. We, we, we've got 60% of Curtis
focus right now. It's like. 40 is on the TV

(03:34):
behind. Him and you know there we go.
But anyway, like y'all said, we're going to talk about
Saturday night in a little whilebecause it was great.
It was unexpected, that video. By the way, if y'all have not
seen the video, Jordan Long did go find that immediately.

(03:55):
Let's just go ahead and. Talk about how.
Jordan Jordan long has been crushing the media this
offseason. I mean.
That was the movie The. Whole offseason, whole season, I
mean, he's he's, he is him, he is, he is doing a lot of lot of
good content and really selling.I think what you know, what's
happening behind the scenes there, man.

(04:17):
Yeah, it was an hour long and I'll take every minute of that
Look, you know, it was a it was a long video that I enjoyed
every second of. But I will say, I will say not
to throw too much shade. I've never seen the coaching

(04:39):
staff as inspired. Definitely didn't see the head
coach as pumped up as I've seen Monty.
So yeah, that's true. That was pretty cool.
We. We saw a different level of gas
for that one and and I'm hoping that it it sticks around as we
move into, you know, further into conference play here with

(04:59):
Wake Forest coming up. And I agree.
Now, Speaking of Wake Forest, weare going to start off tonight
with Know the Enemy and we are bringing on tonight.
He is a writer for 247. He also hosts the 247 Inside the
Forest podcast focusing on Wake Forest football.
So let's bring him on Cameron Lemon Debro.

(05:22):
Cameron, what is happening tonight?
I'm not as busy as you right now.
The Braves can't hurt me right now, but we got anything against
the Yankees I'm pretty good with, so I think we're on the
same page here. There.
We go sweet well. It's got to be one of those NL

(05:42):
ES power or AL ES powers at least bossing over the Yankees
for. Sure.
Yeah, it's, it's a lesser of twoevils for me.
Well. Listen for every Braves fan
right? It's 96 hurt and you ain't
forgave them yet. I was one year old.
I am a tally won't a year old. We were in the we were in the
prime of our youth. Riding bikes like on Stranger

(06:06):
Things. That's right. 10:00 and 11:00 we
were man. Babies.
Babies is what you were back then.
Cameron, we appreciate you taking the time tonight to join
us. Talk a little bit about Wake
Forest before we get into a little bit of everything.
Give us a little bit about yourself, how you got to the
Wake Forest piece here. And you know, how long have you

(06:30):
been doing this? Yeah, so, I mean, grew up in
Atlanta, funny enough for last week with Wake.
I grew up a Georgia Tech fan right outside of Run Decatur,
but actually ended up getting inthe wake for undergrad.
Went there Dave Clawson's first year in 2014, graduated in 2018.
So I think around my junior yearwhen I started working with SB

(06:50):
Nation with their site, doing some recruiting stuff and film
stuff. And then kind of as things went
along, you know, COVID was a big, you know, kind of driver of
people's lives doing different ways.
It was around 2020 is when, you know, I started having a little
more time to put more stuff intofilm.
And then 24/7 kind of approachedme like, hey, you know, you're

(07:11):
doing a good job. Do you want to come over here,
do some stuff there? So really, I'd really say since
2020 is when I first started, you know, really dive into the
way forward speed. Nice.
Now are you still living in the Winston Salem area?
Have you moved back down to Atlanta?
So I was actually covering them remotely in DC.
I was up right outside of 14th St. for a bit, and then now I'm

(07:33):
down Charlotte. So I'll make the commute up from
Charlotte for football, basketball, whatever I need to
do. Awesome.
Nice, man. Nice, nice.
So. You got this thing going like
pretty steady for you about the same time we we we got going.
So this this podcast opened up 2020, OK.
Curtis is happy. We started, we started this show
about 2020. So yeah, COVID kind of, you

(07:54):
know, we, we, we, we got going just before COVID hit and been
riding that wave ever since, man.
Hey, you know, welcome. It's it's, it's, it is awesome
to see. I think over the last couple
years, especially Kylie, Brian, and I can say it's often to see
other fan bases, fans passionateabout what they do, talking

(08:15):
their team. And it's really good because you
know, we dive into, you know, I dive into the stats, Shelton
who's not here tonight, guys into the analytics tally and
Brian both played so they can look at tape and like see who
they like and who they don't like, right.
So it's really nice to have all this and just it's, it's
becoming more of a community because, you know, we can have

(08:37):
conversations. Do we want to beat the pants off
on Saturday? Yeah.
Do you want to beat the pants off on Saturday?
Absolutely. I'd enjoy a win.
I'd enjoy an ACC win. There you go.
But you know, it's, it's awesometo see this and we appreciate
you taking the time tonight to jump on with us.
So now saying that you guys madea pretty big hire this year with

(08:59):
Dave Clausen stepping down, obviously someone you were super
familiar with and you guys go way out to Pullman, WA, just
outspoken where I've got some friends and you guys, Harold
hired Jake Dickard first of all,when it was how did everything
come down and how are you feeling so far about that time?

(09:23):
Yeah, I mean, that first Pete family tweet of Dave Clawson
stepping down, I remember I was at I was doing stuff for my desk
job and I just happened to open my phone and I see it for five
seconds ago and I was like, whatdo you mean he's stepping down?
You know, we're coming off of a season where we'll back-to-back
four and eight seasons for Dave Clawson, things that felt stale.

(09:43):
It really felt like a really pivotal offseason for him, you
know, was he going to change up things for the staff he had just
got done, you know, hosting about, I think 1516 transfer
portal visitors in his house theday before.
So we're all underneath the impression Dave's coming back
for next year. Fine, that happens.
And you know, it's peak portal season and you're like, well,

(10:04):
you don't have time to go on a full-fledged search.
And so things kind of snowballedreally quickly.
I I kind of picked up myself that from some people that I
heard that Dicker was one of them, even the top two, top
three options. And it struck me a little bit
interesting because I've, I've watched a bit of, you know, the
the pack 2 as it was last year and I had really had some fun

(10:25):
watching, you know, John Mateer,I really like what they were
doing and wide receiver Kyle Williams.
I thought their corners were really good.
I thought there was some good stuff.
They fizzled at the end of the year, but I thought there was
good stuff happening there. But obviously money is a big
driver in what you can do both and IL wise, institutional wise,
I know with the big board of board of trustees meeting
Virginia Tech has today, trust me, muddy is is important at all

(10:46):
levels of everything. And so I was like, OK, I can see
it. But then you have the questions
of he's never coached past, you know, Wisconsin is about as far
as he's ever coached. And so, you know, coaching
recruiting in the South, what kind of staff would he bring in?
So when they finally announced it, I was like, OK, I understand
it, but I think there's some questions here.

(11:07):
But from the first day you talk to him at his introductory press
conference and then you got to spring camp, the word, the
buzzword was energy. And it was just it was a
different type of energy that you could see.
You know, Dave Clawson wasn't exactly, you know, done with
college sports at the time, but you could tell how he was
frustrated. He was a big developmental guy.
And when you have players like Sam Hartman, kind of, you know,

(11:30):
using his last year of eligibility to go to Notre Dame,
you know, you have guys like Jamal Banks leave and up and go
to Nebraska and you have guys just they're leaving your
program you've built up and you have to pick and choose who you
can keep because some everyone'sgetting poached left and right.
It it's really, it really kind of took a toll on him.
And but I think what you saw with Jake Dicker was a guy who's

(11:51):
been brought up in the NIL era. You know, he's a young coach, He
understands, you know, what it'slike to be Aceo type of head
coach. And so I thought at first you
you people really enjoyed the enthusiasm.
Then the first couple of games of the season happened and you
were like, woof, what's what's going on here?
You have a 8:50 nail biting win over Kennesaw State.

(12:12):
You know again, Atlanta native. Not sure if Kennesaw State's in
the same waters of where you want to be having a slugfest
with you. Come back next week and have a
rain delayed. Pretty much just butt whooping
of Western Carolina. It's great.
And then you have a Thursday night, everyone's pumped up for
ESPN game against NC State. You come out in the first half,

(12:34):
you return the opening kick for a touchdown.
Your next opening, your next drive is a is a is a is a long
touchdown touchdown driver. Just say you're feeling great.
And then in the second-half, youdon't get a first down.
Other than a targeting penalty, that's the only first you got in
the second-half. You know, things start sour.
And then you have a team like Georgia Tech coming in last week

(12:56):
where they want to drag you intoa bar fight.
They want to just be tougher than you every single down.
And while you know, some some shenanigans happen towards the
end of that game, I think, you know, moral victories are dumb.
They're super dumb. But Wake proved down to down.
They were very willing to be that I did that toughness.

(13:17):
They were they had that identityof we don't care how tough you
are. We're going to be just as tough
of you, if not tougher. And I think that started getting
people a little bit back to, OK,remember, this is year one.
I understand what they're tryingto build too.
So it's been a little bit of a roller coaster.
But I think last week, even withthe law started saying, OK, this
is the idea of what we want. Before we jump into talking

(13:40):
about the offense a little bit, I want to circle back to Georgia
Tech and last week and the controversy towards the end of
that one with the offside. I'm going to kind of just give
you the floor here and let you vent a little bit and talk, talk
that through and kind of what the perspective is from both the
Wake Forest fan and kind of the fan base in general.
Yeah, I mean it, it was tough because I think where my seat

(14:02):
was, I'm pretty much on that line where play happened.
And so when he jumped offside, you could just see everyone in
the cross box going, OK, this game's just over.
It was in the game. Everyone was like, OK, cool,
we're all starting to write and figure and be like, this is this
is done. And then you don't see a flag go
up. You're just kind of confused.

(14:22):
And I personally have they didn't show it on the broadcast.
I've never seen Jake Dickard in the four games that animated of
what's going on here. Robbie Astor was the same way.
You know, come to find out on Monday, not only do they have to
admit that they messed up the, the lack of an onsize offsize
call, there was API on the play too of the receiver that was
being thrown at. And they were just like, and you

(14:44):
can when you go back and watch it, you, you start seeing, hey,
why is that corner playing? Like the only thing he needs to
do is just not give up a touchdown.
Like why, why is he all of a sudden just grabbing and
basically almost throwing him tothe ground?
You know, it's tough because they it's really tough.
Because they thought. Yeah, I mean, he was playing
that way because he knew his guyjumped offsides.

(15:06):
That's the What do you do when your guy jumps off sides?
Make sure you do anything but give him a touchdown because
that's the only thing that matters.
There Well Cameron, don't feel bad because week 4-5 last year
we were in the same. The ACC made a business decision
on Saturday. With y'all.
It was tough. They did against Miami last
year. With us, it was just like.
The, that Miami, that, that Miami game was, was really,

(15:28):
really hard to watch, 'cause I, I'm sitting there, I'm sitting
there with actually a couple of my Virginia Tech friends that
are down here in Charlotte. And I was just kind of sat there
with them and was like, I'm not going to say anything if you
don't, right? We're good.
Anger. A lot of anger.
That night, it's tough, but it'stough.
And then, you know, sometimes you want to, you know, you don't

(15:48):
want to be the guy that's alwayscomplaining about the refs.
And I do think there was some stuff on the field that wig
frankly left on the field. And so there's some parts to me
that go, you shouldn't have gotten to that point.
And then there's also sometimes where I go, well, you know, I do
agree because Jake Dicker talkedabout it on Monday where he
thought that, you know, one of the big changes for college
football is for for penalties like that.
It's a it's that's not a judgement call.

(16:09):
You're offsides, you're not, you're in the neutral zone.
You're not you fall starter, notgive them a challenge flag for
stuff like that. I think that's a pretty easy way
to go. Look, I can do this.
Throw a challenge flag. This review takes 20 seconds.
It's not a judgement call. Good.
I think that's something, especially because this is the
second week in a row we've seen kind of a pretty obvious
offsides not be called and it lead to a game changing play.

(16:32):
So I, I think something like that could easily be done
versus, you know, putting out a statement through someone else
and then going all right, Oh, you good.
Oops. We're sorry.
I mean, it doesn't matter now. Like, no, you know, apologizing
for it after the fact doesn't really change the outcome, so.
I hate when they do that. I hate whenever they know they
mess up and then they'll come and say, well, we messed up.

(16:53):
No shit you messed up. You screwed up a whole game.
You know, Auburn got done similar to, you know, they had
some stuff happen against Oklahoma last week and I'm like,
why even come out with a statement?
It don't matter. Are you going to pay them or you
can get them to win? You know you.
Reverse everything. For a team like Wake, that's,
you know, the one of the big goals of the year is making a

(17:14):
bowl game. You look at the schedule and
you're like, you know what, getting the 6th, you know, if
Wake ends up this season at 5:00and 7:00, you look at that game
a lot and you're you're a littlea little more upset afterwards.
Oh, yeah. And, and I mean, you know, we
saw it last week, last year withMiami.
It's like, I mean, and, and we admitted and you talked about it
earlier, like there were plenty of opportunities where we could

(17:36):
have won that game without it coming down to that situation.
But at the same time, I mean, especially in your case, I mean,
it was, you know, right there very easy there.
There was, there was no there, there, there was no question
about what that call should havebeen.
So you kind of feel bad for y'all, obviously.
I mean, I think that's one that,you know, hopefully you don't
end up looking at the end of theyear like you said and sitting

(17:58):
at 5:00 and 7:00, you're like, oh man, we could have, could
have been bowl eligible with that.
One that'll that'll be a great final press conference with Jake
Dicker of the season if that happens.
Oh yeah. Right, well, man, we're going to
switch gears a little bit and just talk a little bit about
your OC before I let you get thefloor.
I will say I'm I know a little bit about Mr. Mr. Ezel, Curtis

(18:21):
or Brian. Do y'all know what his claim to
fame is? Other than Rob.
Ezel. At South Alabama.
And he was in South Alabama. So he went.
A little further back to. Alabama, he went to Alabama, he
walked on to Alabama, played on the national championship team.
And if you go to YouTube right now and you Google or you go to

(18:44):
YouTube and you put his name in,that's going to pull up a whole
bunch of videos of him impersonating Nick Saban.
So that is his claim to fame. He was.
In the. Locker room, Yeah, he was in the
locker room. I mean, it was everywhere.
He was in the locker room. I'm talking about imitating
Nick. You know, they talked to Nick
about it a lot during that time.I think it was O 9 when it

(19:04):
happened, but a really cool video, you know, just kids
having fun at that time. Like you said, he did go to
South, he did go to South Alabama.
He got the quarterback paid pretty good to go to UNC.
So I know a little bit about him, like I said, because he's
been around these areas, but I will throw it over the camera

(19:27):
and let him tell us a little bitabout his OC and what he likes
or doesn't like or what he's been seeing as of lately.
Yeah, I mean with Rob, there's some growing pains you have to
obviously expect. You know, he was a first time
play caller last year at South Alabama, had some really fun off
really fun offense. You know, Gio was really good.
He not doesn't look great this year, but Gio looked really good

(19:47):
last year. Fluff Bothwell, who I think is
now at Mississippi State was a really good running back back
had a 2 headed guy there. You know, he's had he's had a
fun offense last year and I think he started bringing that
over here to Wake Forest. I think part of the ups and
downs have been partially, you know, he'll admit there's some
there's sometimes. He hasn't put people in the
right places, but you know, withwhat he calls a power spread,

(20:08):
which I kind of likened to a triple option.
Just in the modern version, you know, there are a lot of moving
pieces. You've got a quarterback like
Robbie Ashford who you know, youcan move him around the pocket,
you can put him in a true, you know, real, just a read option
and true in the speed option. You've got a guy like Damon
Claiborne who one of the best running backs in the ACC.
You can, you can move him aroundthere.

(20:29):
Guys like Chris Barnes, Michael Mays, There's a lot of moving
parts there. They they brought in some some
offensive lineman that I think that's made some interesting
adjustments in terms of just cohesiveness.
But with Rob himself, I think it's been the good has been
explosives. I think there was some graphs I
kind of, I kind of retweeted theother day that Wake explosive
wise is on the same level as Ohio State this year.

(20:52):
They've been a very, very, very explosive team.
The problem and you know part ofit again has been play calling
some some of it has just been execution as well has been they
are operating on the same success rate as you know, Iowa
and Kentucky. Oh, that's kind of so it's like
you know what you're you're hitting some deep balls or
hitting some really big ruins. That's great.

(21:14):
But down to down hasn't really been that that great.
And I think sometimes it is a OK, look, it's first and 10.
Let's just get let's just get into the flow of the offense.
You know, I think sometimes they're they get away from a
demon or Ty Clark or even a QB run from time to time.
And then sometimes it's you know, you look around and you
see a left guard kind of on his ass and you see a center getting

(21:35):
pushed back a couple yards and you're like, OK, So there's
there's a lot of moving pieces in terms of what could be
better. And I think we've seen some
really high highs and especiallyin the last two weeks of guys
just, you know, I think Robbie the last, you know, the first
half of NC State and most of thegame last week looked pretty
good throwing the ball and running the ball.
I think there's definitely sometimes where it's just little

(21:58):
things like especially the red zone.
I think, you know, we'll probably talk about it later.
I think that's probably where this game's going to be won in
the red zone makes 133rd in the red zone offense.
When it comes to scoring touchdowns, there are, I
believe, three teams worse than them.
They are combined 2 and 10. So you know, you're you're maybe
a little bit fortunate to be twoand two and two, but you're

(22:18):
you're doing everything right toget there.
It's just finishing there. I think that might if, if they
can with that switch with him, Ithink that might be what it
unlocks that offense. Yeah, gentlemen, you mentioned
that. Well, yeah, I was gonna
actually, that was one of the things I pulled out doing my
research this week, that lows 69% conversion.
The one thing I'll tell you about is guess who's 134 in red

(22:43):
zone defense? That sucks.
If you get down there, we let teams score.
But I want to talk about one of the guys you already mentioned
because he was a guy Virginia Tech almost landed.
That's Damon Claiborne, and he is having another good season.
Y'all did not lose him. He's actually from a little town
called King William, where me and Brian's friend Derek grew

(23:04):
up. Just West of here.
Literally, they want. I'm I'm a 15 minute drive from.
From he's a 15 minute drive fromit and it is a small country
school. But why did he say because if
you look at his, you know, numbers over the three years at
weight, he's put up good numbers.
You know, 1000 yard rusher last year.

(23:24):
How did y'all hold on to him forthis last ride down at weight?
I think first and foremost, you know, their degree, if you, if
you, I had I, that Damon's recruitment was one that I was
really kind of involved in. His mother wanted him to get a
Wake Forest degree. I think he, he, they really
wanted him to get just a degree from a top.
Not saying Virginia Tech's not agood one, but I think it's, you

(23:46):
know, you, when you had options like Wake, Virginia, Virginia
Tech, you know, when you end up at Wake, you're already there.
Why not finish what you started?And I think that's something
we've heard from Damon Quaybourne before is I want to
finish what I started here. I think Wynn also, you know, he
said he was coming back before Dave Boss had stepped down.
I do think having a new style ofoffense with Jake Dickard and

(24:06):
Robbie Zell has also helped alsohelped him tell him a little bit
more, not just saying, you know what, we're going to give you
the ball 40 * a game. Hope you stay.
But I think just in terms of, you know, there have been some
back and forth between, you know, does does the slow match
to RIP, you know, help hurt running backs in terms of their
decision making? And when you're a guy like Damon
who has really good patience, really good balance, really good

(24:28):
feet, you know, it really shinesin that slow mesh.
But also now instead of you running just inside zone or just
outside zone, now you're runningcounter, Now you're running
power. Now you're really get into these
run concepts that you're probably going to be running at
the next level. Then all of a sudden you're
like, OK, you know, I think thismight be, you know, I can, I can

(24:49):
go do this, this an Oregon. I can go to this in Michigan.
You know, I can go to this anywhere else.
I'm already comfortable here. They've put me in a great
position to succeed. Why not stay here for my final
year, get my degree, do the bestI can and then go?
I'll go from there. Absolutely.
And, and so far this year, I mean, he, he's touched the ball

(25:10):
58 times and I'm doing the mathematics here for basically
right about 7.3 per touch, whichmeans when he gets it, he's
getting up field. Now, Brian, what did I know?
You wanted to hit on something here?
Before we yeah, I just want to talk a little bit about the
offensive line. I know you said there's been a
little bit of inconsistency there.
You talked about some some guys on their ass earlier, but give

(25:33):
us a a picture of of what that offensive line is look like.
I know like historically, what Ithink what is kept weight pretty
competitive is that you guys have done pretty well in the
trenches on both sides of the ball.
So I'm, I'm interested to see what, what that offensive line
is looking like and how you feelabout that.
You know, sounds like, you know,Claiborne's definitely getting
his his yards per carry there. So it's got to be something

(25:55):
going pretty well for them. Oh, yeah, I mean, you start with
that left tackle, Melton Siani, who you know, they brought up
from, I believe Temple was played for a year.
There was a was a right tackle moved over to left tackle this
year and had performed so well in fall camp that if The
Athletic reported it, they actually renegotiated his deal

(26:15):
because they were like, look, wedon't want to go to the portal
after this year to get another left tackle.
Let's just go ahead lock you up.And he's pretty much been worth
that, you know, in terms of being a good left tackle.
Center has been Deva Kalani, oneof their cap, one of the
captains. He's been up and down.
That's someone that I think theyexpect a little more of, you
know, in terms of their last week was a really tough match up
for him. And he battled.

(26:36):
There were times that, you know,he pushed a really good
defensive tackle back and sometimes he got pushed 2 yards
back. But I think it's, you know,
expecting a little more out of him is OK.
Right guard George Sell, guy that's been with the program
since Dave Clausman was there. He was the only holdover starter
on the line. He's been good because you have
really noticed him. I know offensive line is a very,

(26:57):
very one. You either see pancakes or you
see, you know, someone on their ass with them.
It's been, you know what, I don't notice you a lot.
And that's a really good thing because you're just sitting
there, you're doing your job. And that's kind of how George
Sell has been. He's put his head down.
He's been a really hard worker at right guard.
Right tackle was their big moneyaddition, GOAT money.
In terms of Lily, Felipe Famo, they beat out.

(27:20):
He came over from Washington State.
He beat out, they beat out what,Nebraska, LSU for him as well.
They wanted him as a left half or right Taco as well.
And I think Lily is playing. Very good.
Yeah, the first game he did not have a good game.
But since then, Lili has been a very, very, very good tackle.
And I think someone that you could probably hear his name
being called on day three of theNFL draft next year if he keeps

(27:42):
this up. It's been it's been really good.
Left guard's been the spot that people have not so much worried
about, but it's just the most fluid 1.
So he started out the year this the year with Clinton Richard,
you know, who was a second year guy out of Atlanta, Fairburn
Heights, I believe, you know, really good guy, you know, big,

(28:02):
big strong, had some solid P4 offers.
And then, you know, had an injury.
I think he broke his leg essentially.
He broke his ankle on the like the last drive of the first game
of the of the season. And it was tough because they'd
already lost two guys that were kind of fighting for that
position too. They had both medically retired.
So you're now down to 1/3 optionthere.

(28:22):
He he's out for the season. You bring in a guy like George
Stee, who has, you know, he's shifting over from tackle and
you can see some really good things and some really not good
things out of a guy that franklywas kind of your fourth option
there. You know, you've seen some
really good of when they pull him, he pulls really well.
He moves really well for a guard.
But then sometimes it's technique, You know, it's not

(28:43):
easy going from being a tackle to being a guard.
It's just, it's, it's just a different type of technique and
you can see it a little bit whenhe, some people kind of power
rush him a bit of Nope, I can't just just go after him.
I got to make sure I'm actually using the correct technique.
So I think that's a little, a little tough because I think
Wake went into the season thinking they'd have 8 to 9 guys

(29:03):
that, you know, they could rotate in and that whittled down
to about 5 or 6 within about 3 weeks.
So it's been good. I think there are times and I
think that's part of the red zone worry as well as, you know,
there's, there's a play I, I pulled yesterday from, from
Saturday, that was, you know, ifone guy doesn't get pushed back
by two yards, the, the tackle, the tight end can come across,

(29:23):
get his block Mons in for a touchdown.
Just little things like that in,in specific areas that I think
if they, if they fix that, you know, I think that makes it go a
little more. And the man behind the line and
you know, in the backfield with with Claiborne is, is why Robbie
Ashford, Alabama legend. He went to Hoover High School

(29:45):
here. You know, everybody probably
knows of Hoover High School if you know anything about, you
know, Alabama and Alabama high school.
But he's a legend because he hasbeen to 95 schools.
Robbie Ashford graduated 4 star,went to Oregon, played baseball.
We actually committed to Ole Miss, ended up at Oregon, played

(30:09):
baseball at Oregon. Then he decided just to focus on
football, transferred to Auburn.A lot of people at Auburn like
them and what he did. But again, he can move, man.
He'll get out of the pocket. And you know, sometimes down
here, it's like they want somebody to, they want Greg
McElroy, they want somebody to sit back and throw the ball.

(30:29):
So left, left Auburn. I went to South Carolina.
Am I correct there? South Carolina, Yeah.
South Carolina to to wait. So he's kind of been, you know,
all over the place, but a talented kid, man.

(30:49):
I mean, you can see last week hegot hurt before he got hurt, you
can see what was happening and then he gets hurt and he's still
gutting through it with that bigass brace on.
I think Robbie is is a person towatch.
I don't know how banged up he and Claiborne to be, but they've
got a good backfield between those two guys.
So I'll just let you talk a lot.I'll let you talk a little bit

(31:12):
about Robbie as well. What he's brought, you know,
Robbie, as you mentioned, he's ajourneyman.
There's only so much you can, and I don't mean it's derogatory
wise, but there's only so much you really expect out of a
journeyman quarterback. You know, at a certain point you
kind of are who you are in that journey.
And I think, you know, during spring and fall camp, they tried
to put him in a little bit of a box he wasn't meant to be in.

(31:35):
It was a, you know, we're going to try and make you a pocket
passer here and there. And it's just that's just not
strength. And we saw a kind of, you know,
the first half of NC State and in this game against Georgia
Tech, where if you get him on the move, this guy is that's
he's going to be 1 of, if not the best athlete on the field.
And it was, it was actually kindof funny.
Funny you brought up the the baseball stuff, the play he gets

(31:57):
hurt on, he actually feels a badsnap like a like 1/3 baseman.
He feels it just directly to 3rdbaseman and just takes off for
about 30-40 yards down the fieldbefore he ended up getting hurt.
And so you see the athleticism jumping at you.
I think some of the, you know, the, the negative has been kind
of the short to intermediate game.
You know, I think, you know, screen passes haven't really

(32:19):
been kind to him. You know, sometimes decision
making when they've tried to puthim in some RPO stuff hasn't
been the best. And I think last on Saturday
they did a good job of taking that away, taking that toy away
from him. But that's where you see the
growth and where he's been good at kind of his entire career.
He's one of the best passers forPFF in terms of the deep ball
because if you, if you have him,Aaron, Aaron and out this guy, I

(32:41):
think, I think I wrote it down the other day was I think 22nd
time for 22nd best in terms of PFF grade.
You know, he's got 6 big time throws, doesn't have a turnover
where they play when he, when hethrows downfield for whatever
reason, if you ask him to have alittle stop and go route, he's
going to put that on the money. And I think that's something
that I think wakes really liked because it's, it's when you're

(33:01):
someone that wants to run the ball as much as with demonically
born with Robbie Ashford, you got to do something to get
people to back off of you. And I think they've done a
really, I've been charting kind of all season of they've done a
really good job of, and especially with Rob, they've
done a really good job of when teams try to stack 7-8 in the
box. Just saying, OK, if you keep
doing that, I'm just going to hit you over the top and like,

(33:23):
we're going to keep doing this until you stop it.
And so I think that's been one of the best things about Ravi is
he has been able to punish, you know, teams when they've tried
to take away what people think WIG wants to do this year.
Absolutely. Now you, you mentioned about the
struggle with the intermediate routes and everything and you
know it, it, it's reflected there, you know, 59%

(33:45):
completions. It's also reflected in when you
look at your leading receivers, Devin Claiborne's second leading
receiver on the team reception wise.
So I'm going to turn this over to you, Jimmy, one of your
receivers that you feel if they have a good game Saturday, you
feel better about your chances to win.
It's tough because the easy answer is Chris Barnes.

(34:06):
Little scatter bug that's 585. Not on a good day.
I'm going to go Micah Mays though.
I think Micah is someone that he's about 6263 ish, 190 lbs and
we've really started seeing somebig plays out of in the last few
weeks of just, you know, with Chris, you know, he's like I
said, he's 5859. You can you can't catch him if

(34:27):
the dude ran like AA1019100 meter dash.
He's just fast. With Micah, he was a long jumper
in high school. So he's got the explosive and
not so much the speed. And I think being able sometimes
when you don't get someone necessarily schemed open.
And I think Virginia Tech's going to do a good job of not
necessarily just busting coverages, having a guy that can
just go up and get a jump ball. And I think Micah does a really,

(34:50):
really good job. But he's some really good hands
on him. He's got he's, he's taking some
hits over them over the middle. They love running some little
mesh rail with him. And he's always finding that
little soft, soft bar of the zone.
But I think Micah, you know, if they can, if you really can get
him going, you know, and I don'tthink, you know, getting going
is 10 is 10 catches. That's just not how Wade's going
to operate. But if you can get him going,
you know, four or five catches and get to that 7080 yard mark,

(35:13):
I think Wade feels like they're in a pretty good place right
there. All right, so we'll make that
note, Micah Maze. And before Brian jumps on the
defense, just one last question.What is what's going to be the
status of Robbie Asher? We know he's banged up, but
Thursday again, it's the ACC. Now we're going to figure we're
going to get to see the injury report.

(35:34):
What do you think he's listed asThursday we're.
We're going to see both him and Damon Claiborne listen as the
questionable. I don't care if Robbie, Robbie
told us in the in the post game press conference on Friday, as
long as I'm not on Saturday, as long as I'm not dead, I'm going
to go out there and play on Saturday.
So, you know, I, I have a, a lotmore of an expectation of Robbie
playing more or less just because we've talked to him with

(35:56):
demand. I think it'll be a full, you
know, he'll be queue and then they're not going to tip their
hand until they absolutely have to.
Right. Sounds good, man.
Sounds good. Yeah, we'll, we'll see what ours
looks like because we're in a situation where we're still
waiting to see are the guys thatwere out last week, guys that
are going to hit. The portal, Portal.
Are they here guys that are going to actually, you know,

(36:16):
yeah. So we're we're we're still
playing wait and see on our sideas well.
So let's flip it over to defense.
We got Scotty Hazleton, defensive coordinator.
He's been coached a good while. He's got a fun beard to look at
too. I got, you know, got got got to
respect the Beard game there. But he's had several P4 stops

(36:39):
before getting to Wake Forest. Tell us a little bit about his
defense and what he brings to the table.
Yeah, I think Scotty Hazleton has done a really good job of
reinventing himself, I think at Michigan State, You know, I when
he when he was at Kansas State, I think he was a really good
defensive coordinator. I think the stop at Michigan
State, whatever was happening with him and Mel Tucker and that

(37:00):
entire program just wasn't working.
Just wasn't working because it was just yards after yards after
breakdown after breakdown after touchdown.
And you know, granted, again, you know, Wig hasn't seen the
best offense in the world with this team just yet, but one
thing they've been excellent at doing is just preventing
explosives. This team just does not give up

(37:22):
explosive plays through the ground, through the air.
You're not going to it. It'll be once in a blue moon
before you hit a 4050 yard play on them.
They it just doesn't happen. And so I think Scotty's done a
really good job of reinventing himself.
He was a guy that ran a lot of Tampa 2, which, you know, Tampa
two could be cover 3. There's a whole other stuff
about that. He, but he ran a lot of Cover 2

(37:43):
this year. He has been, I love that there's
a lot of King William kids goingto see Blacksburg today on this
weekend. This year it's been a lot of
cover one. He's run some cover one.
He's gone to cover 3 from time to time, but Wake's been a
really heavy cover one team thisyear, which I think is pretty
interesting. That's not something I don't
think Wake would really ever dare to run.

(38:04):
I don't think Wake people ever think Wake has the personnel to
run a true Cover 3 at time pressman sort of thing.
But he he's really trust trustedhis receivers.
I mean, it's going to be his quarterbacks and they've
rewarded him more than often. He's trusted his run defense.
And, you know, I think it's a thing of it's it's still kind of
on an edge because I think Wake's done a really good job of
limiting damage. They're one of the best teams at

(38:25):
not giving up touchdowns in the red zone.
They're one of the best teams onnot getting explosives and
they're pretty good on 3rd downs.
The problem is they'll be out there for a little bit and part
of it's the offense, part of it's their own doing on defense
for missing tackles of, you know, sometimes it's a, it's a
critical 3rd and like 3 or 4 andthey're giving it up.
And it's, that's why it's a little interesting when you look

(38:47):
at wakes yards per game, they'reall, they're probably middle of
the pack. When you look at their EPA,
they're, you know, down towards the bottom of the country and
it's they're giving up yards andthey're fine.
But it's sometimes the the they break at the wrong time that's
been that's what's kind of kept them from being that next
echelon of good defense. Yeah, and, and something we hit

(39:07):
on beforehand and you, you immediately just shook your head
as soon as I said it. You know, teams running the
ball, I think right at 54% of the time against Wake 140, which
isn't bad. But I think what you're saying
in this case is the numbers don't look bad, but it's the
crucial situation. It's like you said, third and
two we're missing an attack on It's like you want to bang your
head against the wall when that happens.

(39:28):
And we do the same on this side.But let's talk about three guys.
Well, I'm I want to talk about three guys.
These two may have somebody elsewant to talk about, but I'll
talk about three guys that had really good games last week that
kind of showed out. And the first is Quincy Bryant.
You know, give give a little background on him, but maybe so
much. Why did he have such a good game

(39:49):
against Georgia Tech? Yeah, I think with Quincy, he's
been someone that's been with, he's another person that that
has been he's grown up with the Wake Forest program coming from
Parkview High School outside of Atlanta, really smart,
intelligent kid. And he's someone that that has
he hasn't fallen out of being a starter, but they've they've
been trying to run kind of a twoby two side kind of things.

(40:10):
You know, there's Aiden Hall andDylan Hayes and are set.
Him and Frank Cusano are set andFrank Cusano kind of missed the
game. We'll see if we'll play this
week and. The thing with Quincy I've I've
noticed is when Quincy's been expected to play about 7580
snaps a game, he just, it just hasn't been great, which I don't
think for anyone it's great. But when you've kept him around
that 30 to 40 sort of reps, he'sbeen really good.

(40:34):
He is, he's he's fresh. He's a really good tackler.
Like I said, he's a smart kid. So he's very aware of what's
going on. I think he was a corner.
He he played a lot when he was at Parkview.
He played corner, he played safety, then he tried to
transition down the linebacker. So he's got kind of skills to be
all over the place. And it I think just with the
game against the, you know, hometown team and Georgia Tech

(40:55):
probably fired him up a little bit, but just a team that he
doesn't really have to be worrying about.
Am I going to drop back this game?
Am I going to go forward? I don't have to put a guess and
check is no, I need to go forward and go find wherever
Haynes King is. I think that's a style of game
where and I think, you know, that's someone we're going to
look forward to. When you're talking about a big
dude in Tyron drones where look,just go and get him.

(41:17):
I think that's that's somewhere where where Quincy Bryant really
likes to shine. Yeah, and, and Quincy last week,
just so everybody knows why I focused on him, 11 combined
tackles, had a TfL in there as well.
Was literally, and we know the way Georgia Tech likes to play,
you're getting 11 tackles. That is, you were in on a lot of
plays with the way Georgia Tech runs defense.

(41:38):
And so not even telling that TfLwas on a fourth and one too.
Hanes King went on a QB power and and Quincy just got just
shot through a gap and just got there.
There we go. Nice Cali, Brian, who you want
to talk about next? Yeah, I mean, let's let's talk
about Ron Pruitt, defensive back.
He he had another big game against against Georgia Tech.

(42:01):
What sort of skill set does he bring to the table for Wake
Forest? Karon so Prunty is a is a guy
that it's very funny that he ended up at Wake Forest.
So Wake actually played North Carolina A&T last year and I
believe their opener and Dave Clawson's going through, you
know, making them look like likeevery coach does, making their

(42:22):
their team seem like the 85 Dolphins.
It's it's it's great. And he thought he gets the prony
and he goes, yeah, no, that dude's got to get a better draft
rate than any of our quarterbacks and just is a fairy
stoneface. And we're like, oh, no, he's not
fluffing. He's got this guy up.
He's like, that dude's good. And so when the portal hits, I'm
like, OK, let's see what this what's going on with this guy?

(42:43):
He ends up at at Wake and you'relike, how are you at North
Carolina A&T? He was a freshman All American
when he was at Kansas. He's kind of dropped down to A&T
for a bit, but he's a legitimate616-2190.
Like he is a big corner. He's strong.
He's not afraid to get in someone's face.
And I think that's something yousee when he's going back and

(43:04):
forth with other wide receivers is, you know, I think a lot of
time people have have it's hard to find a 6162 corner.
Like when you're that big, it's hard to move, it's hard to be as
flexible. It's hard to have the right
stride. I think Quran has does a good
job of putting all those things together and that allows him to
work against these wide receivers that are 6263 and can
run. I think that's been a that was a

(43:26):
really good thing, you know, from last, from last game and
the game before where he's just not going to be afraid of
anyone. I guess he doesn't really care.
Every time you ask him about, you know, why do you want to
come back to the P4 level? And he's like, that's, this is
where I, I feel like I belong. And he, he feels like he needs
to show that every single week. Yeah.
And I mean around this part likea lot of people were kind of
upset that when the recruiting was going on for Friday that

(43:49):
that he was somebody that we missed on or didn't really
pursue with the with the vigor, I think a lot of people wanted
to. So seeing him kind of circle
back around there is really interesting.
From Portsmouth and of course hewent to Norcom.
So, but you mentioned him about being out with Kansas.
I mean, he did it last week against GT3 past deflections
back in 2020. And I know that was an awkward

(44:11):
season, third in the Big 12 in past deflections.
That just that just says to me when you see a guy have a lot of
past deflection, they're understanding the route
concepts. They understand when they need
to get their hands in there. And I'm sure there's some P is
and stuff. But overall, that tally, let me
pitch to you real quick who you got.

(44:32):
So defensive line, I'm going to throw it to Cameron.
Who, who do we need to look at, who we need to worry about?
I think I know who you're going to say his first name is
probably Gabe. But who on your defensive line
do I need to worry about? Yeah, I mean, so actually the
first one I was going to, I was going to bring up will be his
running mate, Langston Hardy, kind of the other defensive end,
you know, when you kind of look through snap counts, Gabe, Gabe

(44:54):
has been a really good, good player at at his at his end, but
they've kind of gets club on hishand.
I think I'm pretty sure he brokehis hand during fall camp.
Really hard to tackle when you have a club on your head.
But they've used him as a as a power rusher and he's been
really good both Langston Hardy Langston's turned into he came
over from UConn, his brother on the team as well, son of former

(45:14):
NFL player Kevin Hardy. Yes, you're that old.
It is Langston. Langston has returned to a true
just strong side defensive end. He's solid in the past game.
He's setting the edge in the rungame like he is.
Well, sometimes it's not going to be as flashy as you wanted to
be. It's been it's been amazing.
But I think the the under The Dirty work guy Mateen, I'd be

(45:37):
Ragba, you know, transferred a couple years ago from Georgetown
red Cat. I think he redshirted last year,
but just didn't really play was getting used to adjusting to his
body. They brought him in kind of as
an end that could play tackle. And then now we find out.
Oh, no, no, no, you're you're a defensive tackle, big dog.
And you know, he's been one of the best, not in the ACC, but
nationally at getting pressures.He's just he's popped up on NFL

(46:01):
draft boards of hey, you know, Ithink it was the Senior Bowl
that nothing was Mike Renner that that posted something today
that was, you know, he possibly could be a top 100 pick in the
NFL draft. You know, Mateen has been
someone has the hands are great.He's hit their violent hands.
He's he's just he's cutting through double teams.
He's been a great guy in the run, the run game.
He has been kind of their stalwart and they they love all

(46:23):
their D TS. I think Jaden Lovin's been good.
Zach Lovitin's been good. Dallas Lava has been good, but
Mateen is kind of went from being a guy of that I during
spring and fall camp. I was like, OK, you know what,
let's see if he can be a rotational guy to being like, Oh
no, I need you on the on the field, as many snaps as you can
possibly handle right now. Very nice, don't have a hands

(46:44):
full with that defensive line guys always.
Always, always man trenches. Are always going to be a
struggle, man, They, they, they do such a good job up front
always, I mean. Technically sound.
Y'all are always Cameron. Y'all are always.
I mean, I can remember the game a few years ago.
We did win the game fortunately,but y'all are one of the more
technically sound on both sides of the line.

(47:04):
You never, like you said, there are certain guys you mentioned
on offense where well, you really don't notice them because
they're not getting killed. They're not doing anything
unbelievable, but they're not getting killed.
And sometimes that's what you need.
You need something to steady theship.
So let me ask this for you as wekind of get ready to wrap it up.
And do you have been a wealth ofknowledge you are educating the
public. So first of all, before I ask

(47:26):
this question, when do you when are you going to drop your
preview episode for the Hopies? I think I'll drop mine on
Thursday. I think that's when I'm.
That's inside the forest. So again, I think I'm loving to
hear what I can't wait to hear what you got to say about us.
But let's just go to this for you for this game.

(47:47):
Give a prediction if you want. If you're not there yet, that's
fine. But what is going to be like a
couple keys to you to say if Wake Forest on Saturday
afternoon, about 4:00 wins this game, it's because.
Besides injuries, I think the number one thing, emotions, you
know, it's really hard to quantify it, but that is that
was such an emotional game, regardless of how it ended with

(48:09):
the, you know, the, the offsidesand stuff of that nature.
It's it's a that's a really hardgame to play, win or lose.
Like you Wake Forest poured out everything they had in that
game. And even if they won, I'd still
be circling this game as a just man that this is the ultimate
let down spot. You've got a team that hasn't
necessarily quit on their interim.

(48:29):
It's homecoming. Blacksburg's always in just a
frustrating place for anyone to play.
How do you how do you get up again?
You know, how do you how do you get up again?
And I think that, you know, emotionally is wake, you know,
are they going to come out sluggish?
Are they going to come out with penalties, you know, left and
right? Or are they going to bust some
coverages for the first time? You know what?
What does that look like, you know, from a kind of a big

(48:50):
picture standpoint? But in general, I think, you
know, from on the field, I talked about it a little bit
earlier, You know, the red zone,I think this is a movable force
versus a stoppable object. That is what this is in the red
zone. And I think, you know, if Wade
can get down to the red zone andconvert for touchdowns, they're
going to feel a lot better aboutwhere they are because I think

(49:12):
they're going to treat Kyron drones decently the same way
that they did Haines King, whichwas we're going to put everyone
in the box. You want to beat us with your
arm. Good job you, you got it.
Have fun. I don't know if, you know,
either team wants this to be a shootout.
I think both teams want this to be kind of a get out the mud.
Someone's going to have to win abar fight here.

(49:34):
And I think, you know, if we can, it's whoever wins kind of
those scoring opportunities in agame that's going to be, you
know, probably somewhere around a 27 to 21 or a, you know, AI
don't know if it gets 30, but a 2824 kind of game, you know,
whoever gets the 2428 and not 24.
I think that's where that's going to be, you know, the most

(49:54):
critical part of who's who's kicking field goals versus who's
actually getting to the end zone.
So you got that winning line somewhere in the the mid to
upper 20s then? Yeah, I, I just with this Wake
team, I think, you know, in general, people before the
season kept asking, you know, this team's going to fly because
they're used to like the 2019 and 2022 week that was just
throwing the ball over the place.
And I was like, I don't know if they have the def to necessarily

(50:18):
play that. I think also it helps you a lot,
you know, especially if your team that likes to run the ball,
you know, you look up 6 minutes are off the clock and it's like,
well, man, we get we get a, we get a three and out here we can
just basically milk this entire first quarter.
This score is done. And so I think that's a fun way
if you're a team that's trying to find your identity and trying
to find being this tough team ofcool, you don't.

(50:39):
If you don't get to touch the ball, that's your fault, not
mine. Yeah.
And I mean, it's it's going to be interesting, you know,
contrast to styles. I mean, we've we've definitely
been a team that has dominated in in most of the games time of
possession, but we don't really have a ton of points to show for
it in a lot of cases. So it's going to be interesting
to see what that looks like against a Wake team that's also
trying to, you know, ball control to a good degree for

(51:01):
most of the game. No, I'm I'm excited.
I think it'll be and I think, and I think The thing is, I
think when people say, you know,these low scoring kind of time
of possession games, those are boring.
No, I think those are some of the most fun games because I
think that's when you start seeing those third and two third
and three. Sort of everyone wants the wacky
kind of trick play and somethingthat's where you'll see them.
It's I know I can't get two or three yards in the ground.

(51:24):
I got to figure out another way to do something like that.
I think that's where you start. That's that's where you start
seeing these wacky plays of Georgia Tech trying to do they
they ran a fake punt on four on 4th and eight.
Like that's where you start seeing the the the team start
actually getting in their bags and these kind of slower paced
games of trying to find that extra 2-3 yards.

(51:45):
That's kind of what we did, yeah.
That's what we kind of went intowith the, the North North
Carolina State win, like you said, the low 20s, you know who
can get to 24 and win it. So now very good, very good
analysis. Cameron, we definitely
appreciate you spending a littlebit of time with us.
Lemons being in your name. Life gave you lemons.
You made lemonade, all that goodstuff, man.

(52:06):
We appreciate you coming in. Do you got any shout outs that
you want to throw out before we before we get you out of here?
I mean, the other thing I'll ever promote is my Twitter,
though you'll have some terribletakes on the Eagles, Wake Forest
and Braves. It's act and lemons and under
score. I'm afterwards, but I really
appreciate this. This is always I love talking
football, love talking ball. I'm always happy man.

(52:30):
We will remember this and appreciate you educating us
because that's what this is for.This is this is your team you're
talking about and we can do the research.
We can look, we look at the tapeand and and you know, we know
some things, but this is your team.
So it's great to hear from you, man.
I appreciate it. Go ahead, Tally.
Before you let them go now I wasjust going to say everybody go
follow cameraman Cameron. If you if you see any of us on

(52:50):
Twitter X, whatever they want tocall it nowadays, please, man.
Hey, we got bad takes and crazy takes too.
Definitely like you said, Braves, I feel your pain.
So we will be in misery together.
Oh, yes, Sir, Yes, Sir. We appreciate you, man.
Well, thank you, man. We're going to let you get out
of here, Cameron. Hey, guys.
Appreciate you, Cameron. All right, that was.

(53:12):
Cameron Lemons Debro bringing the Heat bringing all the info
about the Wake Forest Demon Deacons leading into the game
this Saturday at 1:00. Music.