October 28, 2025 • 25 mins
It's not every day that my passion for theater and my love of all things nerdy collide, but in those rare moments that they do, it's something special. When I began my journey covering Broadway for The Cosmic Circus, I started marrying the two, which was difficult when there weren't many shows that met at that junction. However, what began with reviews of Wicked and Beetlejuice has grown into an almost circular intersection between theater and geekdom, bringing us to perhaps the nerdiest show in the land: Dungeons & Dragons: The Twenty-Sided Tavern. With the touring production arriving this Saturday for two performances at The Fisher Theatre, just in time for the Halloween weekend, I might add, as a bonus show to Broadway in Detroit's current season! Ahead of its arrival, we spoke with one of the cast members, Cassidy Sledge, about their time on the production and what audiences can expect from the show!
In this exclusive Box Seat Babes interview, Cassidy Sledge talks about their experience with this show, having been with The Twenty-Sided Tavern since its Off-Broadway run! They also discuss their own crossover between their love of Broadway and getting to bring their nerdy side to the stage, and how this show has pushed them to be a better actor. There's plenty of audience involvement in The Twenty-Sided Tavern, and Sledge discusses what that is like for all parties involved, and how it changes the dynamics between actors and those in the house.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Thank you so much for joining me today, Cassidy.
(00:01):
I'm stoked to be chatting with you once again.
How are you doing half an hour later?
That's so great.
I got my cup of coffee.
I'm ready to go.
You're like, got my energy, we are ready, we're thriving.
So you're currently in the touring production of Dungeons & Dragons 20-sided tavern.
ah How has that experience been so far?
(00:24):
I, maybe I'm speaking like a little out of turn because we've truly only been touring forlike four months, but I love it.
I think it's so much fun.
So far we've been to Kentucky and Chicago and DC and Boston.
Right now we're in New Haven and we're about to hit Philly next.
And then we're coming to Detroit, which I'm very excited for.
(00:47):
I've never been to Detroit before and I'm super stoked to see the city.
Yeah.
Congratulations on being here.
We have some great things in our city, great food.
Cool.
I'd love any recommendations.
Absolutely, I send you a list.
um So you were previously one of the original cast members of the off-Broadway productionof this.
(01:07):
um What was your experience like stepping into that world um of the theatrical D &D showfor the first time?
So I have had a lot of experience being on stage in my life.
You know, I joined theater productions very young and then in high school I did theaterand choir and in college I studied music education, opera, theater and musical theater.
(01:28):
So it's been in my bones for a very long time, but improv was not something that I'd had alot of experience with.
Dungeons and Dragons was only something I recently picked up during the pandemic and I wasactually on a touring production of The Sound of Music.
when I submitted for the 20-sided tavern.
And I remember getting a callback and like eventually booking the show and just beinglike, oh, I'm so excited, I love D &D.
(01:55):
I don't know how to do improv.
It was a little bit of like an uphill battle learning how to be able to improvise.
But I think one of the most challenging parts of improv is being like, there are no rules.
and it's just whatever you synthesize is go with it.
(02:17):
But because we have the framework and the context of Dungeons and Dragons, it's kind ofsort of like we're all starting on the same page at the very least.
So it's been, it's been hard but very fun work.
And I would like to say that I'm good at it now.
m
Well, because it's so different from like a traditional show where you have a script, youfollow the script, you don't change the script, you know?
(02:43):
Yeah.
And it's so interesting because, know, with every other production, it's like, okay,here's your mark.
You hit that mark when you say this line, then you cross to this mark on this line.
And, you know, usually stage pictures are formed with such an intentional, like, theaudience is watching, don't turn your back to the audience.
And so, you know, just like the most basic, like don't upstage each other.
(03:05):
But when you're in like the middle of, okay, this goblin has
cast grease on themselves and they're sliding around on their stomach to try and be apenguin to distract this guy so that you can steal a magical item.
It's like, okay, think back to your theater training.
How do I cheat out while being a greased up goblin penguin in order to just, like it's,you know, it's a, it is a unique workplace.
(03:31):
You're like, no one from school prepared me for this.
Truly, truly, it is so fun, it is so wild.
I think what's one of the cool things, I would assume again, I haven't seen the show, I'msuper excited to it, but like, you don't have to necessarily stay in character, like
you're allowed to break and have fun with this too, so it's not like you have to be whoyou are the entire time.
(03:52):
Yes, and thank God because I break all the time but every once in a while, know You'll belike in the middle of a scene and then you'll turn around and then like one of your cast
members is like half naked and it's like What?
What what?
There's a moment uh in the show recently where I was playing a rogue and somehow like TimAllen had become a character
(04:18):
and we had to defeat him and so I ended up stabbing him and we killed Tim Allen and RJ wasactually playing Tim Allen and he had this fake beard on and he put the beard on me and he
goes, Santa Claus rules.
Now you are growing a beard.
But then my castmates heard that and they were like, no, you're going full Santa.
So they found me like a sack that I was carrying around and we have this hobby horse thatthey put a clown nose on to be Rudolph.
(04:42):
And so I just had like all this crap on stage.
and it had nothing to do with the plot.
Truly nothing, but I just turned into Santa Claus halfway through.
But you sometimes those are really fun moments.
Like I remember a friend of mine was doing a game where she had a story written and theyall decided that they were gonna run uh like a tavern by themselves.
(05:02):
And like, she's like, this has nothing to do with the story, but they like did a whole, itwas like many, many, many sessions of this, just running a tavern and making a theater and
like.
That's so fun.
So like those moments for like you, for anybody who's played D &D, when they see you,you're like, okay, this is a side quest that they're now becoming Santa Claus.
like.
That is the arc of this season.
uh So I'm kind of wondering how does the touring production different from the off-wayproduction?
(05:28):
um Because obviously you're picking up your moving or not in the um same theater everysingle night.
Has it changed a bit since its conception?
uh It definitely has.
We kind of sort of had like two different iterations of the show back in New York.
The first one was called Carriers of Chaos and then the new one that we're currentlytouring with is called The Tomb of Havoc and that one, I think it's much more uh inviting
(05:56):
and welcoming to audience members, specifically ones who haven't really played D &Dbefore.
It's much more straightforward.
uh It's easier to follow.
I will say the set itself had to be compressed a little bit because it was a
It was a pretty big one in New York.
um But I will say, I think mostly what it kind of has become is we just learn more andmore as we do the show that we don't need X, Y, and Z, and we just kind of strip things
(06:23):
away and strip things away to make more space for narrative and more space for improv andmore space to play.
uh So I think, yeah, ultimately just the newest iteration, what's on tour right now is thefreest, most off-the-chain you-
Truly, no one knows what's gonna happen on stage.
And it's very fun.
It's very fun.
(06:44):
I had noticed from videos and stuff like that that the set has changed.
In New York it was quite huge.
It felt like you were walking into a tavern.
And this one, there was more room.
I could see you guys had a little more being able to actually move around and do somedifferent things on stage there.
Yeah, I think what's been the most fascinating challenge so far is just like the literallayout of the stage itself.
(07:09):
Because for example, in Chicago, uh the orchestra pit was like the apron of the stage.
And so we suddenly had just like eight more feet that we could play with just likedepth-wise.
So we had so much space.
then coming immediately from Chicago to Boston, is the easiest, it is easily.
(07:29):
the smallest stage we've ever had.
I want to say we had maybe like three feet in front of the bar and that was it.
It was very horizontal when we were in Boston.
So it's, I think it's just the literal, the confines of the theater itself and thedimensions of the stage that are proving to really stretch our creativity and it's
(07:50):
provided some fun challenges.
You're like, do not take another step, you're on the edge.
So you mentioned that this is kind of like the second campaign of the show, you know?
ah What is the story of this touring production then?
Like, I know it changes, but like, what's the kind of the setup for the story, I shouldsay?
so it is technically the same one shot every show, but again, it varies wildly on how itis approached by the characters and whatnot.
(08:16):
But essentially, you start in a tavern, you meet a bartender, a wizard stumbles in with aquest for the heroes, and you find out that it is, that there is uh a great calamity that
threatens to destroy Waterdeep and Faerun at large, and it is uh this chaotic force.
(08:37):
that uh was once attempted to be sealed away a long time ago, but the seal is beingbroken.
And so the heroes must perform a ritual to reseal away this horrible energy.
And that's as much as I can say, I think, without getting too much into spoilers.
(08:57):
that's okay.
So I'm getting flashbacks to Power Rangers having to seal Rita Repulsa away.
ah
Rangers.
You're gonna come see the Power Rangers show.
Listen, I watched it till I was 20 and I'm not afraid to admit that.
Good!
Stand on that!
Listen, I was super into Dragon Ball, so like, I get it.
I understand.
You just can't sometimes let some of those things go, you know?
(09:19):
It's compa- the reason- it's a- it is a sensation for a reason.
It's good shit.
Yeah, absolutely.
mean, Dragon Ball's still going.
Yeah, exactly!
Thank you!
So are there specific roles in the show or do you like, is there different characters thatyou play every show and like, or like, well, who are you playing in the show if so, you
know?
Sure, so there's five tracks on stage every night.
(09:41):
is what we refer to as the bar versus the bench.
The bar is who runs the story and the bench is who creates the narrative.
So the bar is the dungeon master, they're in charge of the narrative.
The tavern keeper who is in charge of stats, mechanics, tech, stuff like that.
And then you have the bench, which are the three players.
uh In New York, they were referred to as a warrior, spellcaster, and trickster, but...
(10:05):
On tour they are referred to as Team Might, Team Magic, and Team Mischief.
within these three tracks, they kind of sort of have their own taglines.
So Team Might is better at punching and pummeling.
Team Magic is good at manipulation and magic.
And Team Mischief is good at sneaking and seducing.
And so within these three tracks, each person who plays the track has three charactersthat they believe fall into that track.
(10:32):
So for example, our team might has like our warriors, our paladins, our barbarians, stufflike that.
Team Magic has our sorcerers, our wizards, and Team Mischief has our rogues, our bards,know, stuff like that.
And so as an audience member, when you come to the show, you are given a sticker and youare assigned to a team and you effectively become that cohort and you support that
(10:55):
character throughout their journey on the quest.
So for me personally, I started off in New York as just uh a dungeon master.
but then I picked up Tavern Keeper and then most recently Team Mischief.
So I am those three tracks.
And obviously they vary wildly and ask for very, very different things from the actors inthe context of the show.
(11:18):
Did I answer your question?
I feel like I just did a box-office.
Okay, great.
So it's kind of like a rotating, like you have three tracks that you can kind of rotatethrough as the show's touring and stuff.
Okay.
so.
And so that's completely up to stage management's discretion.
Sometimes you'll have a week where you're only Dungeon Master, sometimes you'll have aheavy mix of whatever, and each person is trained on different tracks.
(11:39):
Some people just have like Dungeon Master and Team Mischief, and some people have allfive.
So it's, you really, you have no idea what you're gonna get.
Does that help to like almost simplify?
Cause if you had to do all five, I'm sure that's like a lot of, a lot to memorize.
So having three, does that kind of simplify it to be like, okay, I know that these are thetracks I have to do and easier to like memorize and organize all those rules too, you
(12:03):
know?
Yeah, that's the thing that is like the most challenging is just there are so many rulesin Dungeons and Dragons.
Yes, and so many that are like, you know, class specific and subclass specific and thingsthat like cancel each other out and add on to each other.
And so the Tavern Keeper is effectively the rules lawyer.
(12:23):
So you have to be able to not only keep the actual D &D lore specific, but the 20-sidedTavern lore specific as well.
it's...
We work together.
We work together.
Because truthfully, kind of like D &D itself, it's all about having fun.
you know, there are, but like, if you're a newbie, there are a lot of rules.
That's overwhelming.
still remember like my first time playing D &D just being like, ah I don't...
(12:48):
How do I know which dice to roll when?
I still, you know, it's like, what is that?
I still sometimes when I play with my friends, they're like, you forgot to add yourmodifier to it.
I'm like, oh, fuck.
so real or if they're like, hey, by the way, you have, uh I can't even remember the, whatis it?
Reliable talent.
So it's like, I rolled a four.
It's like, no, actually that's a 10.
(13:09):
I'm like, right, yes, of course it is.
It's like, where are you pulling that from?
Where is that in fifth edition?
Exactly.
Um, you had kind of mentioned about audience.
get stickers that say what team they're on.
Um, how do, like, how do they get involved?
(13:31):
Like, what's the process for them to be a part of the 20 sided tavern?
This is one of my favorite things to talk about.
So we use a software called Gameiotics and uh it's completely based off of your phone oriPad, whatever you bring in.
You jump onto the theater's Wi-Fi and you log onto this website and you are sorted intoyour cohort based on, you know, whatever color sticker you get.
And then effectively you are kind of sort of like if we're looking at it as a video game,the player on stage, if you were sorted onto Team Might, for example, and if you had RJ,
(14:02):
for example, playing a paladin Alistair.
then anytime that Alistair would make a decision in combat, for example, he would say,could punch him or I could stab him.
And then as an audience member, you would take out your phone and you would vote foreither punch or stab, you know?
And so you decide, you literally are piloting the characters and then they will improvbased off of the choices that you make.
(14:25):
And then additionally, we will have moments where...
You know, we could either go left down this alleyway or right towards the city square orwe could visit this part of the map or this part of the map or we could go over here or we
could kill this person or we could do this thing.
You know, it's always, we will always toss it to the audience to say whatever you want todo is fully up to your discretion.
(14:50):
And so if we have a night of particularly chaotic individuals in the house,
then some real crazy stuff's gonna happen on stage.
I mean, that is such a cool way to involve people.
I never would have thought of having your phone be a part of that, but it simplifies thewhole process.
also, makes it, everybody has their phone on them.
(15:13):
You know what I mean?
So that's really cool.
I think that's part of why it is so spectacular that this show exists now, because imaginetrying to do the show in the 90s when technology was not nearly as prevalent or available.
And so it would have been so much harder to get people involved then.
But now it really is.
When you are the tavern keeper and you're running the technology and you're sending outthose votes to people, you see them come in.
(15:39):
And there was one time it was very exciting.
The party had been kind of sort of splintering and at one point one character was like Ireally do not know whether my character would betray the party right now or stand by them
So we sent it to the entire audience should they betray the party or stand by them and bythree votes There were like 400 people voting three votes.
(16:03):
They decided betray the party and so they betrayed them It was was crazy.
No one saw it coming.
It was really neck-and-neck.
We're like, my god, what's gonna happen?
was thrilling.
I was gonna say, I would have been gasping, like.
Yeah, it's, I think this is the closest you can get to sports while still being at like atheatrical event because you're like cheering and you have your teams, you know.
(16:26):
1000 % like what a like this is this is a sports for nerds like
Yes, absolutely.
It's wild, especially if there's a really intense roll and then someone rolls a nat 20.
Sometimes people will run out into the house and then everyone puts their hands up andthey're slapping high fives all the way down.
(16:46):
It's crazy.
So with it being quite a bit of improv and choices, and I know there's tracks and stufflike that, but like how, like what's the level of difficulty to a show like this compared
to like another straight show or a musical?
That is such a good question.
I think that it's kind of subjective because, you know, when you're doing a show where youhave your blocking, you hit your marks, once you kind of sort of get that in your body,
(17:12):
the specificity of that is usually the most challenging part.
So the rehearsal is the most difficult part of a standard show, but once you have yourtrack down, it's in your bones.
And God forbid if you wake up feeling kind of under the weather, but you can't quite callout.
because like your voice is still working.
You can just kind of go on autopilot and like hit your marks and like do your choreographyand then leave and go home and go to sleep.
(17:36):
Whereas with this, you know, the rehearsal is like, here's the skeleton, but you reallydon't know what it's gonna feel like until you're on stage.
And so it's, it is every show that you have to show up listening and paying attention andreacting and responding in the moment.
(17:56):
So it's, I don't know, it's challenging in two very, very different ways.
I get what you're saying because you mentioned you were in the Sound of Music, which Ijust want to say is one of my favorite musicals of all time.
oh I grew up on that film.
I watch it three times a year with my family.
It's like a big deal.
So when I saw that when I saw that in the research, I was like, my gosh, I love them.
(18:22):
But you can almost like once you know that show, you can just kind of do it like maybe itwouldn't be like your best performance or something.
But if you're sick, but you could do it because you're like muscle memory and you knowwhere to hit the parts.
But this one, like there is not a lot of muscle memory.
You just kind of are doing it right there.
mean, we have one moment in the show that is truly scripted and it's the first five to 10minutes where we're like talking about the rules, where like, it's like, hey, here's your
(18:46):
blocking, stand here, say your line.
But then after those 10 minutes are over, it's just improv for the rest of the show.
So it's, you just have to, you have to be on your A game.
You cannot show up and half ass one of these shows.
Cause it just, it doesn't work.
With there being so much audience interaction, you know, and this sounds like, again,there's a lot of energy, there's a lot of going on.
(19:08):
They're not quite maybe being as quiet as you would expect for like, you know, the soundof music or the Fantasticks But oh what is that like?
Listen, I do my research.
oh But like, what is that energy like for you?
like, how, like, can you like tune out or do you feed into it?
Like how, what is that energy like as somebody who's on stage?
(19:31):
God, you're coming at me with all these really good questions.
ah So what's interesting is I think...
It really depends on the vibe of the audience.
Cause sometimes, you you'll have a house full of kids and they're just so excited to likebe in a nerdy space and to like wear their Renaissance Fair elf ears.
(19:51):
And they're just overexcited.
And so when you have a bunch of kids shouting stuff out, it's like, I love you so much.
Let's, you know, put our hands in our lap and put our listening ears on.
And it's so cute.
Whereas every once in a while, like,
you'll get a grown ass middle-aged man who just drank way too much and doesn't know tostop talking and you just gotta be like, hey bud, not your time to speak dog, keep your
(20:14):
mouth closed please.
And I think like truly 99.5 % of the time people are there to have a good time and tosupport and uplift the story.
I wanna say, I think I've done around 350 shows at this point and I truly, I can onlythink of one show.
where I feel like the audience was actually trying to like ruin it and be malicious.
(20:37):
But I think that one out of 350 is pretty stellar.
yeah, exactly, exactly.
So genuinely most of the time I will just like feed into it and be like, ah, you guys arecrazy.
But every once in a while you gotta be like, shut up, you know?
Absolutely.
(20:57):
Bettlejuice was recently here and there was somebody that was like heckling and Beelgeuseturned around and like, and this is the time that you shut up.
and it was funny because it fed into the show, but like there's some people there thatthey think shows, some shows have more energy that you can interact with.
And it's like, there's still a level of like, you're trying to do your job there on stage.
Exactly, it's like, buddy, we got a two hour run time, we gotta keep this moving, we can'tstop and acknowledge every time you say fart, you know, like.
(21:23):
right.
Like maybe once and then we're done.
uh So the psychologist in me always wants to know you're touring.
How do you prioritize your mental health while you're on the road?
So this is also a very fun, interesting thing.
When I was on, you know, like the Fantasticks and the Sound of Music, those were primarilyfor me.
(21:45):
I had smaller roles in there.
I was just like understudies for bigger roles.
And so if when I went on, it was very rare.
So more often than not, we didn't stage door.
And if we did, like we were not, I was not the person people were lined up to see.
And so I would just go home after the show and sleep and be fine.
Whereas the 20-sided Tavern,
(22:05):
You are doing so much audience interaction that people really do want to talk to you afterthe show.
They want to grab a picture.
They want to grab an autograph.
And it is always, it's so flattering and it's so touching.
And I always want to be able to be there.
But every once in a while, you're just like, if you get stuck with a two show day on tourand then you have the matinee the next day and it's just like, I just don't have the
(22:30):
energy to go talk to people.
The way that I have learned to prioritize self care is
I can't stage door every single time.
Because if I do, I will become violently ill and just never be able to move ever again.
So it's like, if I feel that like, tired, bone tired energy, it's like, just gotta, Igotta go home and I gotta be horizontal and sleep for 13 hours tonight.
(22:55):
I can't do the extra hour of, which is a bummer, because I really, I love talking topeople about, you know, their first character.
or they come and they show you their favorite dice and you're like, that's such a greatset.
It's probably my favorite part of the show is stage door-ing and so it's a bummer when Ifeel like I need to take care of myself.
(23:15):
But I know that if I don't, then I won't be able to do the show or continue to stage door,so.
And it's really tough because you're, you know, I don't know how long, tours are usuallywhat, like a year contract at a time.
Like it's a little, you're, you're away from home for quite a bit of time.
You're living out of, you know, hotel rooms.
You're moving constantly.
(23:35):
You're going through different time zones.
Like sometimes you do get burnt out.
Yeah, it's very real and I'm trying to stay ahead of it so that I don't have to like takea week off in the middle and just like go sleep and come back.
You know, I'm trying to maintain the energy level as we go.
Absolutely.
Which is, it's important that you do that.
I'm glad to hear that you are prioritizing your mental health because that is important.
(23:58):
um Final question for you then is just what are you hoping audiences take away from thisexperience of 20-sided tavern?
Oh, that's a good one.
That's a really good one.
I think that part of my personal struggle is when I am on stage, I don't want to too much,too much uh political energy to the stage.
(24:26):
But I am a queer person and we have the administration that we have.
And every once in a while, uh we will have
For example, the uh vote between do I betray my party or do I stick with my friends?
And when it comes down to those three votes, it's just like there's a little part of methat just shouts out like, if that won't show you the importance of registering to vote
(24:51):
and making your voice heard, I don't know what will.
And so I think if there is something that I can try and impart on audience members, is.
I hope you learned from this experience how much agency you have in creating and buildinga world that you want to be proud of.
You can make a world that you are proud of.
(25:11):
You just have to show up.
You have to be loud and have your voice be heard.
Do it.
Do the...
Show up.
Do the thing.
Get loud.
And with that, I want to thank you for your time.
It has been such a joy talking with you.
ah You're so welcome.
Thank you for being here.
And we're excited to see you when you arrive in Detroit.
Yay!
(25:32):
and I'm so excited to see those recommendations.
ah So, Dungeons & Dragons 20-sided Tavern arrives at the Fisher Theater on November 1stfor two performances.
So, get your tickets now.
We'll see you at the show.
Awesome, thank you so much, friend.
Can't wait to meet you.
Thank you so much for joining me today, Cassidy.
(00:01):
I'm stoked to be chatting with you once again.
How are you doing half an hour later?
That's so great.
I got my cup of coffee.
I'm ready to go.
You're like, got my energy, we are ready, we're thriving.
So you're currently in the touring production of Dungeons & Dragons 20-sided tavern.
ah How has that experience been so far?
(00:24):
I, maybe I'm speaking like a little out of turn because we've truly only been touring forlike four months, but I love it.
I think it's so much fun.
So far we've been to Kentucky and Chicago and DC and Boston.
Right now we're in New Haven and we're about to hit Philly next.
And then we're coming to Detroit, which I'm very excited for.
(00:47):
I've never been to Detroit before and I'm super stoked to see the city.
Yeah.
Congratulations on being here.
We have some great things in our city, great food.
Cool.
I'd love any recommendations.
Absolutely, I send you a list.
um So you were previously one of the original cast members of the off-Broadway productionof this.
(01:07):
um What was your experience like stepping into that world um of the theatrical D &D showfor the first time?
So I have had a lot of experience being on stage in my life.
You know, I joined theater productions very young and then in high school I did theaterand choir and in college I studied music education, opera, theater and musical theater.
(01:28):
So it's been in my bones for a very long time, but improv was not something that I'd had alot of experience with.
Dungeons and Dragons was only something I recently picked up during the pandemic and I wasactually on a touring production of The Sound of Music.
when I submitted for the 20-sided tavern.
And I remember getting a callback and like eventually booking the show and just beinglike, oh, I'm so excited, I love D &D.
(01:55):
I don't know how to do improv.
It was a little bit of like an uphill battle learning how to be able to improvise.
But I think one of the most challenging parts of improv is being like, there are no rules.
and it's just whatever you synthesize is go with it.
(02:17):
But because we have the framework and the context of Dungeons and Dragons, it's kind ofsort of like we're all starting on the same page at the very least.
So it's been, it's been hard but very fun work.
And I would like to say that I'm good at it now.
m
Well, because it's so different from like a traditional show where you have a script, youfollow the script, you don't change the script, you know?
(02:43):
Yeah.
And it's so interesting because, know, with every other production, it's like, okay,here's your mark.
You hit that mark when you say this line, then you cross to this mark on this line.
And, you know, usually stage pictures are formed with such an intentional, like, theaudience is watching, don't turn your back to the audience.
And so, you know, just like the most basic, like don't upstage each other.
(03:05):
But when you're in like the middle of, okay, this goblin has
cast grease on themselves and they're sliding around on their stomach to try and be apenguin to distract this guy so that you can steal a magical item.
It's like, okay, think back to your theater training.
How do I cheat out while being a greased up goblin penguin in order to just, like it's,you know, it's a, it is a unique workplace.
(03:31):
You're like, no one from school prepared me for this.
Truly, truly, it is so fun, it is so wild.
I think what's one of the cool things, I would assume again, I haven't seen the show, I'msuper excited to it, but like, you don't have to necessarily stay in character, like
you're allowed to break and have fun with this too, so it's not like you have to be whoyou are the entire time.
(03:52):
Yes, and thank God because I break all the time but every once in a while, know You'll belike in the middle of a scene and then you'll turn around and then like one of your cast
members is like half naked and it's like What?
What what?
There's a moment uh in the show recently where I was playing a rogue and somehow like TimAllen had become a character
(04:18):
and we had to defeat him and so I ended up stabbing him and we killed Tim Allen and RJ wasactually playing Tim Allen and he had this fake beard on and he put the beard on me and he
goes, Santa Claus rules.
Now you are growing a beard.
But then my castmates heard that and they were like, no, you're going full Santa.
So they found me like a sack that I was carrying around and we have this hobby horse thatthey put a clown nose on to be Rudolph.
(04:42):
And so I just had like all this crap on stage.
and it had nothing to do with the plot.
Truly nothing, but I just turned into Santa Claus halfway through.
But you sometimes those are really fun moments.
Like I remember a friend of mine was doing a game where she had a story written and theyall decided that they were gonna run uh like a tavern by themselves.
(05:02):
And like, she's like, this has nothing to do with the story, but they like did a whole, itwas like many, many, many sessions of this, just running a tavern and making a theater and
like.
That's so fun.
So like those moments for like you, for anybody who's played D &D, when they see you,you're like, okay, this is a side quest that they're now becoming Santa Claus.
like.
That is the arc of this season.
uh So I'm kind of wondering how does the touring production different from the off-wayproduction?
(05:28):
um Because obviously you're picking up your moving or not in the um same theater everysingle night.
Has it changed a bit since its conception?
uh It definitely has.
We kind of sort of had like two different iterations of the show back in New York.
The first one was called Carriers of Chaos and then the new one that we're currentlytouring with is called The Tomb of Havoc and that one, I think it's much more uh inviting
(05:56):
and welcoming to audience members, specifically ones who haven't really played D &Dbefore.
It's much more straightforward.
uh It's easier to follow.
I will say the set itself had to be compressed a little bit because it was a
It was a pretty big one in New York.
um But I will say, I think mostly what it kind of has become is we just learn more andmore as we do the show that we don't need X, Y, and Z, and we just kind of strip things
(06:23):
away and strip things away to make more space for narrative and more space for improv andmore space to play.
uh So I think, yeah, ultimately just the newest iteration, what's on tour right now is thefreest, most off-the-chain you-
Truly, no one knows what's gonna happen on stage.
And it's very fun.
It's very fun.
(06:44):
I had noticed from videos and stuff like that that the set has changed.
In New York it was quite huge.
It felt like you were walking into a tavern.
And this one, there was more room.
I could see you guys had a little more being able to actually move around and do somedifferent things on stage there.
Yeah, I think what's been the most fascinating challenge so far is just like the literallayout of the stage itself.
(07:09):
Because for example, in Chicago, uh the orchestra pit was like the apron of the stage.
And so we suddenly had just like eight more feet that we could play with just likedepth-wise.
So we had so much space.
then coming immediately from Chicago to Boston, is the easiest, it is easily.
(07:29):
the smallest stage we've ever had.
I want to say we had maybe like three feet in front of the bar and that was it.
It was very horizontal when we were in Boston.
So it's, I think it's just the literal, the confines of the theater itself and thedimensions of the stage that are proving to really stretch our creativity and it's
(07:50):
provided some fun challenges.
You're like, do not take another step, you're on the edge.
So you mentioned that this is kind of like the second campaign of the show, you know?
ah What is the story of this touring production then?
Like, I know it changes, but like, what's the kind of the setup for the story, I shouldsay?
so it is technically the same one shot every show, but again, it varies wildly on how itis approached by the characters and whatnot.
(08:16):
But essentially, you start in a tavern, you meet a bartender, a wizard stumbles in with aquest for the heroes, and you find out that it is, that there is uh a great calamity that
threatens to destroy Waterdeep and Faerun at large, and it is uh this chaotic force.
(08:37):
that uh was once attempted to be sealed away a long time ago, but the seal is beingbroken.
And so the heroes must perform a ritual to reseal away this horrible energy.
And that's as much as I can say, I think, without getting too much into spoilers.
(08:57):
that's okay.
So I'm getting flashbacks to Power Rangers having to seal Rita Repulsa away.
ah
Rangers.
You're gonna come see the Power Rangers show.
Listen, I watched it till I was 20 and I'm not afraid to admit that.
Good!
Stand on that!
Listen, I was super into Dragon Ball, so like, I get it.
I understand.
You just can't sometimes let some of those things go, you know?
(09:19):
It's compa- the reason- it's a- it is a sensation for a reason.
It's good shit.
Yeah, absolutely.
mean, Dragon Ball's still going.
Yeah, exactly!
Thank you!
So are there specific roles in the show or do you like, is there different characters thatyou play every show and like, or like, well, who are you playing in the show if so, you
know?
Sure, so there's five tracks on stage every night.
(09:41):
is what we refer to as the bar versus the bench.
The bar is who runs the story and the bench is who creates the narrative.
So the bar is the dungeon master, they're in charge of the narrative.
The tavern keeper who is in charge of stats, mechanics, tech, stuff like that.
And then you have the bench, which are the three players.
uh In New York, they were referred to as a warrior, spellcaster, and trickster, but...
(10:05):
On tour they are referred to as Team Might, Team Magic, and Team Mischief.
within these three tracks, they kind of sort of have their own taglines.
So Team Might is better at punching and pummeling.
Team Magic is good at manipulation and magic.
And Team Mischief is good at sneaking and seducing.
And so within these three tracks, each person who plays the track has three charactersthat they believe fall into that track.
(10:32):
So for example, our team might has like our warriors, our paladins, our barbarians, stufflike that.
Team Magic has our sorcerers, our wizards, and Team Mischief has our rogues, our bards,know, stuff like that.
And so as an audience member, when you come to the show, you are given a sticker and youare assigned to a team and you effectively become that cohort and you support that
(10:55):
character throughout their journey on the quest.
So for me personally, I started off in New York as just uh a dungeon master.
but then I picked up Tavern Keeper and then most recently Team Mischief.
So I am those three tracks.
And obviously they vary wildly and ask for very, very different things from the actors inthe context of the show.
(11:18):
Did I answer your question?
I feel like I just did a box-office.
Okay, great.
So it's kind of like a rotating, like you have three tracks that you can kind of rotatethrough as the show's touring and stuff.
Okay.
so.
And so that's completely up to stage management's discretion.
Sometimes you'll have a week where you're only Dungeon Master, sometimes you'll have aheavy mix of whatever, and each person is trained on different tracks.
(11:39):
Some people just have like Dungeon Master and Team Mischief, and some people have allfive.
So it's, you really, you have no idea what you're gonna get.
Does that help to like almost simplify?
Cause if you had to do all five, I'm sure that's like a lot of, a lot to memorize.
So having three, does that kind of simplify it to be like, okay, I know that these are thetracks I have to do and easier to like memorize and organize all those rules too, you
(12:03):
know?
Yeah, that's the thing that is like the most challenging is just there are so many rulesin Dungeons and Dragons.
Yes, and so many that are like, you know, class specific and subclass specific and thingsthat like cancel each other out and add on to each other.
And so the Tavern Keeper is effectively the rules lawyer.
(12:23):
So you have to be able to not only keep the actual D &D lore specific, but the 20-sidedTavern lore specific as well.
it's...
We work together.
We work together.
Because truthfully, kind of like D &D itself, it's all about having fun.
you know, there are, but like, if you're a newbie, there are a lot of rules.
That's overwhelming.
still remember like my first time playing D &D just being like, ah I don't...
(12:48):
How do I know which dice to roll when?
I still, you know, it's like, what is that?
I still sometimes when I play with my friends, they're like, you forgot to add yourmodifier to it.
I'm like, oh, fuck.
so real or if they're like, hey, by the way, you have, uh I can't even remember the, whatis it?
Reliable talent.
So it's like, I rolled a four.
It's like, no, actually that's a 10.
(13:09):
I'm like, right, yes, of course it is.
It's like, where are you pulling that from?
Where is that in fifth edition?
Exactly.
Um, you had kind of mentioned about audience.
get stickers that say what team they're on.
Um, how do, like, how do they get involved?
(13:31):
Like, what's the process for them to be a part of the 20 sided tavern?
This is one of my favorite things to talk about.
So we use a software called Gameiotics and uh it's completely based off of your phone oriPad, whatever you bring in.
You jump onto the theater's Wi-Fi and you log onto this website and you are sorted intoyour cohort based on, you know, whatever color sticker you get.
And then effectively you are kind of sort of like if we're looking at it as a video game,the player on stage, if you were sorted onto Team Might, for example, and if you had RJ,
(14:02):
for example, playing a paladin Alistair.
then anytime that Alistair would make a decision in combat, for example, he would say,could punch him or I could stab him.
And then as an audience member, you would take out your phone and you would vote foreither punch or stab, you know?
And so you decide, you literally are piloting the characters and then they will improvbased off of the choices that you make.
(14:25):
And then additionally, we will have moments where...
You know, we could either go left down this alleyway or right towards the city square orwe could visit this part of the map or this part of the map or we could go over here or we
could kill this person or we could do this thing.
You know, it's always, we will always toss it to the audience to say whatever you want todo is fully up to your discretion.
(14:50):
And so if we have a night of particularly chaotic individuals in the house,
then some real crazy stuff's gonna happen on stage.
I mean, that is such a cool way to involve people.
I never would have thought of having your phone be a part of that, but it simplifies thewhole process.
also, makes it, everybody has their phone on them.
(15:13):
You know what I mean?
So that's really cool.
I think that's part of why it is so spectacular that this show exists now, because imaginetrying to do the show in the 90s when technology was not nearly as prevalent or available.
And so it would have been so much harder to get people involved then.
But now it really is.
When you are the tavern keeper and you're running the technology and you're sending outthose votes to people, you see them come in.
(15:39):
And there was one time it was very exciting.
The party had been kind of sort of splintering and at one point one character was like Ireally do not know whether my character would betray the party right now or stand by them
So we sent it to the entire audience should they betray the party or stand by them and bythree votes There were like 400 people voting three votes.
(16:03):
They decided betray the party and so they betrayed them It was was crazy.
No one saw it coming.
It was really neck-and-neck.
We're like, my god, what's gonna happen?
was thrilling.
I was gonna say, I would have been gasping, like.
Yeah, it's, I think this is the closest you can get to sports while still being at like atheatrical event because you're like cheering and you have your teams, you know.
(16:26):
1000 % like what a like this is this is a sports for nerds like
Yes, absolutely.
It's wild, especially if there's a really intense roll and then someone rolls a nat 20.
Sometimes people will run out into the house and then everyone puts their hands up andthey're slapping high fives all the way down.
(16:46):
It's crazy.
So with it being quite a bit of improv and choices, and I know there's tracks and stufflike that, but like how, like what's the level of difficulty to a show like this compared
to like another straight show or a musical?
That is such a good question.
I think that it's kind of subjective because, you know, when you're doing a show where youhave your blocking, you hit your marks, once you kind of sort of get that in your body,
(17:12):
the specificity of that is usually the most challenging part.
So the rehearsal is the most difficult part of a standard show, but once you have yourtrack down, it's in your bones.
And God forbid if you wake up feeling kind of under the weather, but you can't quite callout.
because like your voice is still working.
You can just kind of go on autopilot and like hit your marks and like do your choreographyand then leave and go home and go to sleep.
(17:36):
Whereas with this, you know, the rehearsal is like, here's the skeleton, but you reallydon't know what it's gonna feel like until you're on stage.
And so it's, it is every show that you have to show up listening and paying attention andreacting and responding in the moment.
(17:56):
So it's, I don't know, it's challenging in two very, very different ways.
I get what you're saying because you mentioned you were in the Sound of Music, which Ijust want to say is one of my favorite musicals of all time.
oh I grew up on that film.
I watch it three times a year with my family.
It's like a big deal.
So when I saw that when I saw that in the research, I was like, my gosh, I love them.
(18:22):
But you can almost like once you know that show, you can just kind of do it like maybe itwouldn't be like your best performance or something.
But if you're sick, but you could do it because you're like muscle memory and you knowwhere to hit the parts.
But this one, like there is not a lot of muscle memory.
You just kind of are doing it right there.
mean, we have one moment in the show that is truly scripted and it's the first five to 10minutes where we're like talking about the rules, where like, it's like, hey, here's your
(18:46):
blocking, stand here, say your line.
But then after those 10 minutes are over, it's just improv for the rest of the show.
So it's, you just have to, you have to be on your A game.
You cannot show up and half ass one of these shows.
Cause it just, it doesn't work.
With there being so much audience interaction, you know, and this sounds like, again,there's a lot of energy, there's a lot of going on.
(19:08):
They're not quite maybe being as quiet as you would expect for like, you know, the soundof music or the Fantasticks But oh what is that like?
Listen, I do my research.
oh But like, what is that energy like for you?
like, how, like, can you like tune out or do you feed into it?
Like how, what is that energy like as somebody who's on stage?
(19:31):
God, you're coming at me with all these really good questions.
ah So what's interesting is I think...
It really depends on the vibe of the audience.
Cause sometimes, you you'll have a house full of kids and they're just so excited to likebe in a nerdy space and to like wear their Renaissance Fair elf ears.
(19:51):
And they're just overexcited.
And so when you have a bunch of kids shouting stuff out, it's like, I love you so much.
Let's, you know, put our hands in our lap and put our listening ears on.
And it's so cute.
Whereas every once in a while, like,
you'll get a grown ass middle-aged man who just drank way too much and doesn't know tostop talking and you just gotta be like, hey bud, not your time to speak dog, keep your
(20:14):
mouth closed please.
And I think like truly 99.5 % of the time people are there to have a good time and tosupport and uplift the story.
I wanna say, I think I've done around 350 shows at this point and I truly, I can onlythink of one show.
where I feel like the audience was actually trying to like ruin it and be malicious.
(20:37):
But I think that one out of 350 is pretty stellar.
yeah, exactly, exactly.
So genuinely most of the time I will just like feed into it and be like, ah, you guys arecrazy.
But every once in a while you gotta be like, shut up, you know?
Absolutely.
(20:57):
Bettlejuice was recently here and there was somebody that was like heckling and Beelgeuseturned around and like, and this is the time that you shut up.
and it was funny because it fed into the show, but like there's some people there thatthey think shows, some shows have more energy that you can interact with.
And it's like, there's still a level of like, you're trying to do your job there on stage.
Exactly, it's like, buddy, we got a two hour run time, we gotta keep this moving, we can'tstop and acknowledge every time you say fart, you know, like.
(21:23):
right.
Like maybe once and then we're done.
uh So the psychologist in me always wants to know you're touring.
How do you prioritize your mental health while you're on the road?
So this is also a very fun, interesting thing.
When I was on, you know, like the Fantasticks and the Sound of Music, those were primarilyfor me.
(21:45):
I had smaller roles in there.
I was just like understudies for bigger roles.
And so if when I went on, it was very rare.
So more often than not, we didn't stage door.
And if we did, like we were not, I was not the person people were lined up to see.
And so I would just go home after the show and sleep and be fine.
Whereas the 20-sided Tavern,
(22:05):
You are doing so much audience interaction that people really do want to talk to you afterthe show.
They want to grab a picture.
They want to grab an autograph.
And it is always, it's so flattering and it's so touching.
And I always want to be able to be there.
But every once in a while, you're just like, if you get stuck with a two show day on tourand then you have the matinee the next day and it's just like, I just don't have the
(22:30):
energy to go talk to people.
The way that I have learned to prioritize self care is
I can't stage door every single time.
Because if I do, I will become violently ill and just never be able to move ever again.
So it's like, if I feel that like, tired, bone tired energy, it's like, just gotta, Igotta go home and I gotta be horizontal and sleep for 13 hours tonight.
(22:55):
I can't do the extra hour of, which is a bummer, because I really, I love talking topeople about, you know, their first character.
or they come and they show you their favorite dice and you're like, that's such a greatset.
It's probably my favorite part of the show is stage door-ing and so it's a bummer when Ifeel like I need to take care of myself.
(23:15):
But I know that if I don't, then I won't be able to do the show or continue to stage door,so.
And it's really tough because you're, you know, I don't know how long, tours are usuallywhat, like a year contract at a time.
Like it's a little, you're, you're away from home for quite a bit of time.
You're living out of, you know, hotel rooms.
You're moving constantly.
(23:35):
You're going through different time zones.
Like sometimes you do get burnt out.
Yeah, it's very real and I'm trying to stay ahead of it so that I don't have to like takea week off in the middle and just like go sleep and come back.
You know, I'm trying to maintain the energy level as we go.
Absolutely.
Which is, it's important that you do that.
I'm glad to hear that you are prioritizing your mental health because that is important.
(23:58):
um Final question for you then is just what are you hoping audiences take away from thisexperience of 20-sided tavern?
Oh, that's a good one.
That's a really good one.
I think that part of my personal struggle is when I am on stage, I don't want to too much,too much uh political energy to the stage.
(24:26):
But I am a queer person and we have the administration that we have.
And every once in a while, uh we will have
For example, the uh vote between do I betray my party or do I stick with my friends?
And when it comes down to those three votes, it's just like there's a little part of methat just shouts out like, if that won't show you the importance of registering to vote
(24:51):
and making your voice heard, I don't know what will.
And so I think if there is something that I can try and impart on audience members, is.
I hope you learned from this experience how much agency you have in creating and buildinga world that you want to be proud of.
You can make a world that you are proud of.
(25:11):
You just have to show up.
You have to be loud and have your voice be heard.
Do it.
Do the...
Show up.
Do the thing.
Get loud.
And with that, I want to thank you for your time.
It has been such a joy talking with you.
ah You're so welcome.
Thank you for being here.
And we're excited to see you when you arrive in Detroit.
Yay!
(25:32):
and I'm so excited to see those recommendations.
ah So, Dungeons & Dragons 20-sided Tavern arrives at the Fisher Theater on November 1stfor two performances.
So, get your tickets now.
We'll see you at the show.
Awesome, thank you so much, friend.
Can't wait to meet you.
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