August 8, 2025 • 26 mins
The story of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Sunset Blvd. is a deep exploration into the psyche of Norma Desmond (Nicole Scherzinger) and Joe Gillis (Tom Francis), creating one of the most personal and off-putting musicals we've seen in recent years. While the story is incredible and the performances breathtaking, the true magic of the Tony Award-winning revival comes from Jamie Lloyd's revisioning of the music and stagecraft of Sunset Blvd. From the costumes to the staging (or lack thereof), the lighting, and of course, the vocals, there's so much to discuss about this musical outside of the performances and the people bringing the characters to life on stage!
In this episode of the Box Seat Babes podcast, hosts RJ Miller-Zelinko and Brian Kitson discuss all aspects of Sunset Blvd.'s theatricality and why this musical deserves the awards and acclaim it has won. What about the staging was so striking that it took their breath away? Which songs stole the show and propelled this musical into something extraordinary? How did these hosts feel about the integration of technology and cameras to help tell the story? There are plenty of aspects of Sunset Blvd. to marvel at, all of which are broken down in this podcast! Listen in as both give their final verdicts, and if they think this show could transfer to a touring production!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What's up RJ welcome back
(00:03):
I think this is gonna be more of the exciting episode than perhaps the last one we talkedabout the story Because there's so much technicality to Sunset Boulevard that it was
almost hard to talk about the story without talking about some of these things Becausethis there's so much going on but just a quick recap for those people who don't know
(00:24):
Sunset Boulevard stars a aging star Norma Desmond who has decided she's going to
get back into the world of acting that she doesn't even know that she's left by writingher, you know, piece de resistance, right?
You know, that that's the right word, right?
She's gonna be writing this, this screenplay, and she enlists the help of Tom Ellis tohelp her write a screenplay writer who is
(00:52):
Some uneven ground in his life And it's about the relationship that ensues and all of thechaos that follows.
I Think that's a good way to sum it up without spoiling too much Let's jump into the musiccuz there is a Lot of this and some of this again goes with the staging and the
(01:14):
technicality So we're gonna we're gonna pull it apart as much as possible.
If we cross over it's gonna be fine
What did you think of the music of Sunset Boulevard?
mean, we we open with a grand old overture that I, you know, forgot happen.
But of course, with Andrew Lloyd Webber, what can you expect?
(01:39):
I also just generally forgot how much of the music I knew already.
Like these are classics that people sing for audition cuts all of the time, karaoke songs.
just yeah, very movie-esque, like exactly what you would envision in a, you know, 1950seven film soundtrack.
(02:12):
It's just, yeah, it's like you're turning on a cinema reel and that's what starts playing.
know something I noticed about a lot of the shows, granted maybe it's because we saw a lotof revivals, but there's a lot of the return to the overture that's going on right now,
which is not a bad thing.
But I think it does really set the tone for the show, and this one in specific, it is likehaunting melody after haunting melody of just like, I watched your eyes like recognize
(02:40):
each song as it started.
I think even during intermission you said, I knew all of those songs.
These are songs that like people pull out all the time.
to audition to just sing.
Because they are so haunting, I'm pretty sure that's probably what it is.
Like, they're such a haunting, they catch your attention right away, they get stuck inyour head.
(03:02):
I mean, I'm pretty sure I sang Sunset Boulevard for the rest of the trip, and I could bewrong, but I did sing it quite a bit.
I could have sung it in my sleep, I don't even know.
you a fan of Andrew Lloyd Webber's?
Scores.
Like, do you like, like he has a very technical...
Like, I love Phantom of the Opera but you're not gonna catch me listening to cats.
Like, I guess like where does this fall in Andrew Lloyd Webber's repertoire of scores andmusic?
(03:27):
Yeah, I mean, it definitely leans way more towards phantom than cats.
You
a very powerful one.
mean, it's, I would rank it well.
It's not something that I have listened to on repeat like Phantom, but it's also like if Iwant, because I'm a nerd and if I want dramatic kind of cinema type music, especially like
(04:01):
instrumental versions, like this would be a good score to look at.
because you do, there's a lot of variety.
There's a lot of power ballads.
It's the very like grandiose.
Let's make this song super fricking long for no reason.
and pull out everybody's heartstrings.
(04:23):
so I I'm gonna I'm gonna be honest with you.
I don't know a lot of his works I pulled up his theater credits here Joseph and theAmazing Technicolor Dreamcoat never seen it Jesus Christ Superstar never seen it Evita
never seen it like there's so many he has so many Starlight Express.
know that's a big one It's kind of making a revival right now It's interesting that thelater ones like the Phantom of the Opera.
(04:50):
I know that one Sunset Boulevard.
I don't know
I know Love Never Dies.
I did not know that he did a Wizard of Oz in 2011, which is crazy to me.
He is so...
What I think is interesting about his music, it's pretty hit or miss.
It's like one of those things, there's some shows you can love by him and there's someshows you can hate, but it's not like...
(05:11):
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm the oddball out here.
It's not like every show you're gonna love here out of his repertoire of shows.
Yeah, it's a very, um.
He is an instrumental pop star, right?
Like he has a meat like you just eat.
It's like any other artists.
Typically, if you like the artist, like if you're a hardcore follower of that artist,you're probably going to like most of what they put out.
(05:41):
Otherwise he's a very acquired taste.
Um,
I do like most of his stuff for exactly what it is.
Like I know what I'm gonna get when I listen to his stuff.
It doesn't really stray that far off of itself.
(06:05):
But there are some people that I know that...
They're like, it's too much.
Too much for me.
So you're telling me Joseph in the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat is as haunting as SunsetBoulevard and Phantom of the Opera?
No.
No, no.
That's fair, that's fine.
don't even know what that show's about, but
(06:28):
It's his most...
Is it his most upbeat show?
It might be.
It is a different, it's a different genre, a little bit more poppy.
then, Jesus Christ superstar is a little bit more like rockish, but he's, mean, he hasevolved as a composer for sure.
(06:49):
Like as we've even in that list, as we've dabbled, but these, these earlier ones, I think.
appropriate to the time that it was created.
That's fair.
So who knows what Sherlock Holmes and the 12 Days of Christmas that's coming out in 2025is going to be like.
(07:10):
That being said.
a couple of flops lately, but.
School of Rock Cinderella that had been done...
I mean School of did alright I guess, but it's not one that really stays in the mind kindof like Sunset Boulevard and Phantom of the Opera that just keep coming back and actually
depending on when this comes out can't say, but we know Phantom of the Opera is touringso...
(07:34):
That being said, I'm actually gonna start this one off.
The song that caught my attention so much is Sunset Boulevard, I think it has to do morewith the technicality of the show.
And so I think I'm gonna talk about these parts together.
So Sunset Boulevard starts off act two.
And they film this outside as they're going.
(07:56):
Which to me was just like the most mind-blowing thing that I could ever think of a showdoing because I think I got we've never seen this before at least I've never seen a show
like this before that used cameras the way that they did and so Sunset Boulevard is notonly this haunting melody of like Joe's thoughts of like how like horrible the situation
is and how Hollywood's really messed with him but also just made it feel real
(08:23):
I it's a good way to put it, like grounded that song a little bit more.
So that one was a standout for me.
What one spoke to you?
I mean, I love with one look, but I am, you know, like find me loving all of the powerballads all of the time.
I was gonna say, that's like your bread and butter.
(08:46):
It's just, it's the powerhouse.
is the, and she has a couple of powerhouse moments, but this one I think just like reallytakes the cake.
And it's just, mean, it's an impressive, impressive song.
So yeah.
This show really does give...
those two specifically, but really gives them a lot of moments that kind of shine in theirvocals and their musicality.
(09:12):
Specifically, Nicole Scherzinger she gets quite a few moments as normal to just rip youopen.
And if you're Joe, maybe, literally.
But yeah, there's there's a lot of moments that she kind of gets to like really play withher vocal range Which is huge because she has a huge vocal range That it does let Norma
(09:36):
kind of be that indeed.
She's the star of the show, you know
Yeah.
And you, you don't really hear songs like, like this anymore.
Like there's, there's just a moment in a song where it goes from like good level to justgreat.
(09:58):
And I feel like musical theater now is written in a very quick tempoed way that, you know,you're not, you don't have these massive holds anymore.
You don't have.
these super long notes that are very intricate.
Um, whereas this one that that's the bread and butter of this.
And I don't know how long the hold is in this in with one look.
(10:21):
It's very long.
think she actually made it longer somehow, but it is impressive it is.
And vocalists know like it's, it's just breaths, not just breath support.
is breath support.
And you have to work at that.
You have to work it up.
You have to.
train your lungs to be able to do that.
(10:43):
And part of it's skill, part of it's talent.
But it's, unless you're going to revivals, you're really not seeing a lot of it in modernday musicals.
So when you do, it's just like incredible.
And I think, I mean, she kicked it into like 10th gear, so.
(11:05):
100 % I mean that I know what know you're talking about cuz I thought that's never gonnaend like she's never That notes never stopping cuz she just she held it and it was like so
it seemed so effortless from like the outward perspective But having really gotten intolike learning some things I knew how hard they had to be because to keep it so clear with
(11:27):
her tone and her like intonation and stuff like that like was
something that you have to be a star to do.
And I can't imagine that most people could pull that off, which is why it makes senseCaroline Bowman was her understudy.
You know what I mean?
Like somebody who just has a complete vocal range, complete control, makes it look easy.
(11:48):
Like you have to have, have to be so on top of your craft to achieve that, I would assume.
Yeah, yeah.
And the reason that those moments don't really exist much is because you're so exposed ina note like that or notes like that, that if anything goes wrong, like, I mean, if
anything gets caught in your throat all, like, halfway through, because your mouth is wideopen, it can just wreck the moment.
(12:14):
And so you're so exposed as a singer, and that's why it's just so impressive, becauseyou're like,
the strength that you have to have, even the core strength, really using your abs to pushthrough it.
yeah, it's good stuff.
(12:36):
explains why I have quite a few shows this season that have moments like this why there'sso many sick like call-outs because like if you're doing this eight shows a week week
after week eventually you're gonna hit a point where your body's just like you like NicoleI don't actually think Nicole's called out all that often but like there's gonna be
moments where you're just your body's gonna be like what are you doing like the amount ofstrain you're putting yourself under
(13:00):
What do you think the music does for the story?
Because I feel like this is a very...
This is almost like a psychological thriller.
What do you think the progression of the music does?
Because it feels like almost...
Like you're descending into madness a little bit with them, and the music helps to carrythat.
Like that Noir-y feel, you know?
There's that 1950s Noir feel to the show that kind of pushes that narrative.
(13:23):
Yeah, it's very, it's kind of like broken up.
I feel like, um...
And I mean, I'm sure I could like analyze the music itself in regards to what key he haswritten in and just kind of what is musically happening, but it is very.
(13:44):
The descending notes, of course, make sense.
We're kind of getting deeper, we're getting darker as we go further and further.
It is interesting to me, like you mentioned, like Sunset Boulevard opening act two.
So we kind of start again, it's almost like starting at the top of the stairs and we'remaking our way down.
(14:07):
And I feel like that's kind of what's happening musically as well.
Even through some of the dialogue, we have this underlying musical score happening that'sa little bit haunting and I do think plays into the depth of what's happening
(14:30):
character-wise.
You know, speaking of that, I think that, I mean, it's a great segue, so we're just gonnause it.
About the set design, specifically the camera usage, I had known before we went into theshow that there was not a set.
I had some people that had seen the show and they said, you're gonna be shocked, there'sno set, but they make it work.
It's really beautiful.
(14:51):
And I don't think I was prepared at how beautiful it was with absolutely nothing on thatstage with the people and lights.
There's nothing going on.
There like how like What does that do for you somebody who is a little more technical likewhat was that staging like?
What was the use of cameras like for you the use of lighting?
(15:11):
How did it all kind of play together for you?
I mean, I was a little worried about it at first because you didn't know where to look.
But then I think there's a good balance.
And clearly, it's just so intentional.
Like, the movements were so intentional.
And it obviously spoke to the fact that once again, this whole premise is around Hollywoodand the movies.
(15:37):
So that was cool.
Like the crossover of what they were doing and what they were talking about were the samething.
So I thought the idea was very different, but also very well received.
And so just to give people kind of a picture of what it is, is they use a lot of handheld.
(16:31):
I'm sure people have seen this on tik-tok because it's now that's all I see people filmingit And so there is this real big emphasis on the camera And so when you could say that you
didn't know where to focus I agree because at first I was like What am I supposed to belooking at?
Because I guess like as an average theater goer we look at the actors We look at this likethe set and the actors and what's going on?
(16:58):
And then all of sudden there'd be these scenes happening on the screen.
like, where do you focus?
Like, where's the eye supposed to go?
Well, I would assume that the purpose of the camera work is that we're seeing...
facial expressions, right?
Because I mean, these are close up shots.
It's not like we're getting like full body shots.
(17:18):
Like I don't think we ever got more than maybe a half like from the waist up.
Except for a couple like kind of shadowy shots.
But most of the time, like we're looking like right at their face, like you can see everyeverything.
(17:39):
So that I appreciated.
Because it really, once again, when we talk about the fact that they're emulating film,the acting part of it truly, like they didn't have to overact because everyone could see
just the right amount of acting happening on the big screen, right?
(18:05):
Like they were just showing it to everyone by looking right at the camera.
So I know it.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and that was interesting too, because it's like, and we should mention a lot of, Ican't remember if the cameras themselves were black and white or if the lighting just was
(18:31):
in such a way that it appeared to be black and white because the whole set was blackexcept for lights.
So that.
also obviously gave it the like 50s film feel, but definitely a completely new anddifferent approach, or at least on like anything that I'd seen previously.
(18:57):
I agree, I think that the cameras themselves were black and white and I could be wrong.
And if somebody's on, if somebody who watches this that works on the show would love totell us, please let us know.
But I think it was black and white.
But at the same time, the, the stage was so dark and so, it looked like it went onforever.
And then those lights were so bright.
(19:18):
And hashtag touring show of Hadestown.
You could learn a little bit about lighting usage from.
Sunset Boulevard here and not blinding your people, but just I digress But there it wasthis really like It was very haunting in the fact that there was nothing on stage and then
you got those I'm always thinking of those close-up shots of like when you saw Normabehind
(19:43):
like Joe's back and you really got those looks of like how she's seeing things and likethat was almost like the like we're not supposed to see this like you're not supposed to
see this moment you're not supposed to be experiencing this but you get that inside lookthat he doesn't and you know just like the level of delusion that's happening as you're
spiraling down and so that was really beautiful that was really interesting once you gotused to knowing where to look and like once you got knowing where to look it was easy
(20:07):
peasy you know lemon squeezy
But something about the set that I do want to bring up is...
was two times that maybe I was just like, what is actually going on here?
And one of them was the entry into Sunset Boulevard when he's walking in the background.
And you're just like, how meta are we being here?
Like, is this the actor?
(20:30):
Is this the character?
And then the other time was with the computer.
They had a computer that they were writing a screenplay on that was off to the side.
And I was just like, this is the 1950s.
And so to me, those were just moments of like, what are we speaking to?
Like where are we drawing the line?
And what did that do to the show?
(20:52):
Did those moments throw you off at all?
Yes, although now looking back at it, if we want to be that articulate, cameras back thenwould have been massive, right?
Like they wouldn't have been these little DSLR, I mean, I'm sure they were fancier thanDSLR, but you know what I mean, like small video cameras that they were using.
(21:23):
So yeah, there were moments where they picked and choose.
Those were the most obvious because, you know, you're walking through the dressing rooms,you're kind of, you're looking at all of the cast in their dressing rooms, kind of poking
fun at a couple of them.
There was a couple jokes in there.
(21:44):
There was some intentional showing of a couple of the props.
So was like they broke the fourth wall, but you weren't really sure why.
And then yeah, the computer, the modern, the modern age stuff, it like, it took you a stepoutside of everything else that felt like it fit.
(22:10):
So obviously choices were made.
again, maybe that speaks to the fact of like the budget or they trying to keep the budgetthe way it was or maybe it was to speak to the fact of while it was the 1950s delusions
don't always make sense timeways like I maybe there's a reason those are just two momentsthat like in the show I stop and be like that seems weird like that just like there was a
(22:32):
little tiny moments where I was like what is that capturing and
Ultimately decide me from enjoying the show no because this is also another show that waskind of my top five Like I loved this show so much That I'm not gonna really be able to
speak bad about it That being said it's getting an A in my book How about you
(22:58):
Yeah, I mean, I would give it an A as well.
Would you recommend this for people or would this be a show that you'd recommend butthere's caveats?
Yes.
I mean, I would recommend it if you know the show.
Like if you know the show or you have seen the movie, then go for it.
I think you will be lost if you don't know the show at all and if you haven't seen themovie.
(23:23):
Okay.
Is it?
and look, you didn't know, but...
I did it, I did not know, but I think I also knew enough.
I guess there was some knowledge of kind of what to expect without knowing what to expect,probably because of the advertisements on social media that really pushing right now.
(23:45):
I'm gonna ask you because you've seen the movie does this breathe new life into it or doesis this like a must-see Show compare it like how does this rank toward the movie that you
saw prior to this?
Hmm.
I mean, I like the musical aspect of it because the movie is not a musical.
(24:08):
So I like that addition.
I think the movie lends itself more to still even though they have film usage.
It just you can do more in a movie when it comes to imagining, you know, the car and thisthe house like the level of star.
(24:29):
and the delusion that it is makes more sense when she's in her house.
So that part, I think, just what is kind of the defining line between the two.
Sure, absolutely.
This one was lot more leaving things to the imagination, which people can interpretdifferently each and every time.
(24:57):
Yeah, I mean, if you don't know what a 50 star mansion looks like.
Like, if I was to take my younger sister to this, I'm not sure that she would have anyidea.
I don't think she would imagine because she wouldn't know what to imagine.
(25:18):
sure.
That makes sense.
But overall from the two of us, it's a plus.
And so I would recommend it.
I would love to see the show again.
If it was still playing in New York when I went there, I probably would want to catch itagain.
But yeah.
And so for that, we've concluded part two of our Sunset Boulevard discussion.
(25:41):
Thank you so much for joining us and we look forward to seeing you next time.
What's up RJ welcome back
(00:03):
I think this is gonna be more of the exciting episode than perhaps the last one we talkedabout the story Because there's so much technicality to Sunset Boulevard that it was
almost hard to talk about the story without talking about some of these things Becausethis there's so much going on but just a quick recap for those people who don't know
(00:24):
Sunset Boulevard stars a aging star Norma Desmond who has decided she's going to
get back into the world of acting that she doesn't even know that she's left by writingher, you know, piece de resistance, right?
You know, that that's the right word, right?
She's gonna be writing this, this screenplay, and she enlists the help of Tom Ellis tohelp her write a screenplay writer who is
(00:52):
Some uneven ground in his life And it's about the relationship that ensues and all of thechaos that follows.
I Think that's a good way to sum it up without spoiling too much Let's jump into the musiccuz there is a Lot of this and some of this again goes with the staging and the
(01:14):
technicality So we're gonna we're gonna pull it apart as much as possible.
If we cross over it's gonna be fine
What did you think of the music of Sunset Boulevard?
mean, we we open with a grand old overture that I, you know, forgot happen.
But of course, with Andrew Lloyd Webber, what can you expect?
(01:39):
I also just generally forgot how much of the music I knew already.
Like these are classics that people sing for audition cuts all of the time, karaoke songs.
just yeah, very movie-esque, like exactly what you would envision in a, you know, 1950seven film soundtrack.
(02:12):
It's just, yeah, it's like you're turning on a cinema reel and that's what starts playing.
know something I noticed about a lot of the shows, granted maybe it's because we saw a lotof revivals, but there's a lot of the return to the overture that's going on right now,
which is not a bad thing.
But I think it does really set the tone for the show, and this one in specific, it is likehaunting melody after haunting melody of just like, I watched your eyes like recognize
(02:40):
each song as it started.
I think even during intermission you said, I knew all of those songs.
These are songs that like people pull out all the time.
to audition to just sing.
Because they are so haunting, I'm pretty sure that's probably what it is.
Like, they're such a haunting, they catch your attention right away, they get stuck inyour head.
(03:02):
I mean, I'm pretty sure I sang Sunset Boulevard for the rest of the trip, and I could bewrong, but I did sing it quite a bit.
I could have sung it in my sleep, I don't even know.
you a fan of Andrew Lloyd Webber's?
Scores.
Like, do you like, like he has a very technical...
Like, I love Phantom of the Opera but you're not gonna catch me listening to cats.
Like, I guess like where does this fall in Andrew Lloyd Webber's repertoire of scores andmusic?
(03:27):
Yeah, I mean, it definitely leans way more towards phantom than cats.
You
a very powerful one.
mean, it's, I would rank it well.
It's not something that I have listened to on repeat like Phantom, but it's also like if Iwant, because I'm a nerd and if I want dramatic kind of cinema type music, especially like
(04:01):
instrumental versions, like this would be a good score to look at.
because you do, there's a lot of variety.
There's a lot of power ballads.
It's the very like grandiose.
Let's make this song super fricking long for no reason.
and pull out everybody's heartstrings.
(04:23):
so I I'm gonna I'm gonna be honest with you.
I don't know a lot of his works I pulled up his theater credits here Joseph and theAmazing Technicolor Dreamcoat never seen it Jesus Christ Superstar never seen it Evita
never seen it like there's so many he has so many Starlight Express.
know that's a big one It's kind of making a revival right now It's interesting that thelater ones like the Phantom of the Opera.
(04:50):
I know that one Sunset Boulevard.
I don't know
I know Love Never Dies.
I did not know that he did a Wizard of Oz in 2011, which is crazy to me.
He is so...
What I think is interesting about his music, it's pretty hit or miss.
It's like one of those things, there's some shows you can love by him and there's someshows you can hate, but it's not like...
(05:11):
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm the oddball out here.
It's not like every show you're gonna love here out of his repertoire of shows.
Yeah, it's a very, um.
He is an instrumental pop star, right?
Like he has a meat like you just eat.
It's like any other artists.
Typically, if you like the artist, like if you're a hardcore follower of that artist,you're probably going to like most of what they put out.
(05:41):
Otherwise he's a very acquired taste.
Um,
I do like most of his stuff for exactly what it is.
Like I know what I'm gonna get when I listen to his stuff.
It doesn't really stray that far off of itself.
(06:05):
But there are some people that I know that...
They're like, it's too much.
Too much for me.
So you're telling me Joseph in the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat is as haunting as SunsetBoulevard and Phantom of the Opera?
No.
No, no.
That's fair, that's fine.
don't even know what that show's about, but
(06:28):
It's his most...
Is it his most upbeat show?
It might be.
It is a different, it's a different genre, a little bit more poppy.
then, Jesus Christ superstar is a little bit more like rockish, but he's, mean, he hasevolved as a composer for sure.
(06:49):
Like as we've even in that list, as we've dabbled, but these, these earlier ones, I think.
appropriate to the time that it was created.
That's fair.
So who knows what Sherlock Holmes and the 12 Days of Christmas that's coming out in 2025is going to be like.
(07:10):
That being said.
a couple of flops lately, but.
School of Rock Cinderella that had been done...
I mean School of did alright I guess, but it's not one that really stays in the mind kindof like Sunset Boulevard and Phantom of the Opera that just keep coming back and actually
depending on when this comes out can't say, but we know Phantom of the Opera is touringso...
(07:34):
That being said, I'm actually gonna start this one off.
The song that caught my attention so much is Sunset Boulevard, I think it has to do morewith the technicality of the show.
And so I think I'm gonna talk about these parts together.
So Sunset Boulevard starts off act two.
And they film this outside as they're going.
(07:56):
Which to me was just like the most mind-blowing thing that I could ever think of a showdoing because I think I got we've never seen this before at least I've never seen a show
like this before that used cameras the way that they did and so Sunset Boulevard is notonly this haunting melody of like Joe's thoughts of like how like horrible the situation
is and how Hollywood's really messed with him but also just made it feel real
(08:23):
I it's a good way to put it, like grounded that song a little bit more.
So that one was a standout for me.
What one spoke to you?
I mean, I love with one look, but I am, you know, like find me loving all of the powerballads all of the time.
I was gonna say, that's like your bread and butter.
(08:46):
It's just, it's the powerhouse.
is the, and she has a couple of powerhouse moments, but this one I think just like reallytakes the cake.
And it's just, mean, it's an impressive, impressive song.
So yeah.
This show really does give...
those two specifically, but really gives them a lot of moments that kind of shine in theirvocals and their musicality.
(09:12):
Specifically, Nicole Scherzinger she gets quite a few moments as normal to just rip youopen.
And if you're Joe, maybe, literally.
But yeah, there's there's a lot of moments that she kind of gets to like really play withher vocal range Which is huge because she has a huge vocal range That it does let Norma
(09:36):
kind of be that indeed.
She's the star of the show, you know
Yeah.
And you, you don't really hear songs like, like this anymore.
Like there's, there's just a moment in a song where it goes from like good level to justgreat.
(09:58):
And I feel like musical theater now is written in a very quick tempoed way that, you know,you're not, you don't have these massive holds anymore.
You don't have.
these super long notes that are very intricate.
Um, whereas this one that that's the bread and butter of this.
And I don't know how long the hold is in this in with one look.
(10:21):
It's very long.
think she actually made it longer somehow, but it is impressive it is.
And vocalists know like it's, it's just breaths, not just breath support.
is breath support.
And you have to work at that.
You have to work it up.
You have to.
train your lungs to be able to do that.
(10:43):
And part of it's skill, part of it's talent.
But it's, unless you're going to revivals, you're really not seeing a lot of it in modernday musicals.
So when you do, it's just like incredible.
And I think, I mean, she kicked it into like 10th gear, so.
(11:05):
100 % I mean that I know what know you're talking about cuz I thought that's never gonnaend like she's never That notes never stopping cuz she just she held it and it was like so
it seemed so effortless from like the outward perspective But having really gotten intolike learning some things I knew how hard they had to be because to keep it so clear with
(11:27):
her tone and her like intonation and stuff like that like was
something that you have to be a star to do.
And I can't imagine that most people could pull that off, which is why it makes senseCaroline Bowman was her understudy.
You know what I mean?
Like somebody who just has a complete vocal range, complete control, makes it look easy.
(11:48):
Like you have to have, have to be so on top of your craft to achieve that, I would assume.
Yeah, yeah.
And the reason that those moments don't really exist much is because you're so exposed ina note like that or notes like that, that if anything goes wrong, like, I mean, if
anything gets caught in your throat all, like, halfway through, because your mouth is wideopen, it can just wreck the moment.
(12:14):
And so you're so exposed as a singer, and that's why it's just so impressive, becauseyou're like,
the strength that you have to have, even the core strength, really using your abs to pushthrough it.
yeah, it's good stuff.
(12:36):
explains why I have quite a few shows this season that have moments like this why there'sso many sick like call-outs because like if you're doing this eight shows a week week
after week eventually you're gonna hit a point where your body's just like you like NicoleI don't actually think Nicole's called out all that often but like there's gonna be
moments where you're just your body's gonna be like what are you doing like the amount ofstrain you're putting yourself under
(13:00):
What do you think the music does for the story?
Because I feel like this is a very...
This is almost like a psychological thriller.
What do you think the progression of the music does?
Because it feels like almost...
Like you're descending into madness a little bit with them, and the music helps to carrythat.
Like that Noir-y feel, you know?
There's that 1950s Noir feel to the show that kind of pushes that narrative.
(13:23):
Yeah, it's very, it's kind of like broken up.
I feel like, um...
And I mean, I'm sure I could like analyze the music itself in regards to what key he haswritten in and just kind of what is musically happening, but it is very.
(13:44):
The descending notes, of course, make sense.
We're kind of getting deeper, we're getting darker as we go further and further.
It is interesting to me, like you mentioned, like Sunset Boulevard opening act two.
So we kind of start again, it's almost like starting at the top of the stairs and we'remaking our way down.
(14:07):
And I feel like that's kind of what's happening musically as well.
Even through some of the dialogue, we have this underlying musical score happening that'sa little bit haunting and I do think plays into the depth of what's happening
(14:30):
character-wise.
You know, speaking of that, I think that, I mean, it's a great segue, so we're just gonnause it.
About the set design, specifically the camera usage, I had known before we went into theshow that there was not a set.
I had some people that had seen the show and they said, you're gonna be shocked, there'sno set, but they make it work.
It's really beautiful.
(14:51):
And I don't think I was prepared at how beautiful it was with absolutely nothing on thatstage with the people and lights.
There's nothing going on.
There like how like What does that do for you somebody who is a little more technical likewhat was that staging like?
What was the use of cameras like for you the use of lighting?
(15:11):
How did it all kind of play together for you?
I mean, I was a little worried about it at first because you didn't know where to look.
But then I think there's a good balance.
And clearly, it's just so intentional.
Like, the movements were so intentional.
And it obviously spoke to the fact that once again, this whole premise is around Hollywoodand the movies.
(15:37):
So that was cool.
Like the crossover of what they were doing and what they were talking about were the samething.
So I thought the idea was very different, but also very well received.
And so just to give people kind of a picture of what it is, is they use a lot of handheld.
(16:31):
I'm sure people have seen this on tik-tok because it's now that's all I see people filmingit And so there is this real big emphasis on the camera And so when you could say that you
didn't know where to focus I agree because at first I was like What am I supposed to belooking at?
Because I guess like as an average theater goer we look at the actors We look at this likethe set and the actors and what's going on?
(16:58):
And then all of sudden there'd be these scenes happening on the screen.
like, where do you focus?
Like, where's the eye supposed to go?
Well, I would assume that the purpose of the camera work is that we're seeing...
facial expressions, right?
Because I mean, these are close up shots.
It's not like we're getting like full body shots.
(17:18):
Like I don't think we ever got more than maybe a half like from the waist up.
Except for a couple like kind of shadowy shots.
But most of the time, like we're looking like right at their face, like you can see everyeverything.
(17:39):
So that I appreciated.
Because it really, once again, when we talk about the fact that they're emulating film,the acting part of it truly, like they didn't have to overact because everyone could see
just the right amount of acting happening on the big screen, right?
(18:05):
Like they were just showing it to everyone by looking right at the camera.
So I know it.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and that was interesting too, because it's like, and we should mention a lot of, Ican't remember if the cameras themselves were black and white or if the lighting just was
(18:31):
in such a way that it appeared to be black and white because the whole set was blackexcept for lights.
So that.
also obviously gave it the like 50s film feel, but definitely a completely new anddifferent approach, or at least on like anything that I'd seen previously.
(18:57):
I agree, I think that the cameras themselves were black and white and I could be wrong.
And if somebody's on, if somebody who watches this that works on the show would love totell us, please let us know.
But I think it was black and white.
But at the same time, the, the stage was so dark and so, it looked like it went onforever.
And then those lights were so bright.
(19:18):
And hashtag touring show of Hadestown.
You could learn a little bit about lighting usage from.
Sunset Boulevard here and not blinding your people, but just I digress But there it wasthis really like It was very haunting in the fact that there was nothing on stage and then
you got those I'm always thinking of those close-up shots of like when you saw Normabehind
(19:43):
like Joe's back and you really got those looks of like how she's seeing things and likethat was almost like the like we're not supposed to see this like you're not supposed to
see this moment you're not supposed to be experiencing this but you get that inside lookthat he doesn't and you know just like the level of delusion that's happening as you're
spiraling down and so that was really beautiful that was really interesting once you gotused to knowing where to look and like once you got knowing where to look it was easy
(20:07):
peasy you know lemon squeezy
But something about the set that I do want to bring up is...
was two times that maybe I was just like, what is actually going on here?
And one of them was the entry into Sunset Boulevard when he's walking in the background.
And you're just like, how meta are we being here?
Like, is this the actor?
(20:30):
Is this the character?
And then the other time was with the computer.
They had a computer that they were writing a screenplay on that was off to the side.
And I was just like, this is the 1950s.
And so to me, those were just moments of like, what are we speaking to?
Like where are we drawing the line?
And what did that do to the show?
(20:52):
Did those moments throw you off at all?
Yes, although now looking back at it, if we want to be that articulate, cameras back thenwould have been massive, right?
Like they wouldn't have been these little DSLR, I mean, I'm sure they were fancier thanDSLR, but you know what I mean, like small video cameras that they were using.
(21:23):
So yeah, there were moments where they picked and choose.
Those were the most obvious because, you know, you're walking through the dressing rooms,you're kind of, you're looking at all of the cast in their dressing rooms, kind of poking
fun at a couple of them.
There was a couple jokes in there.
(21:44):
There was some intentional showing of a couple of the props.
So was like they broke the fourth wall, but you weren't really sure why.
And then yeah, the computer, the modern, the modern age stuff, it like, it took you a stepoutside of everything else that felt like it fit.
(22:10):
So obviously choices were made.
again, maybe that speaks to the fact of like the budget or they trying to keep the budgetthe way it was or maybe it was to speak to the fact of while it was the 1950s delusions
don't always make sense timeways like I maybe there's a reason those are just two momentsthat like in the show I stop and be like that seems weird like that just like there was a
(22:32):
little tiny moments where I was like what is that capturing and
Ultimately decide me from enjoying the show no because this is also another show that waskind of my top five Like I loved this show so much That I'm not gonna really be able to
speak bad about it That being said it's getting an A in my book How about you
(22:58):
Yeah, I mean, I would give it an A as well.
Would you recommend this for people or would this be a show that you'd recommend butthere's caveats?
Yes.
I mean, I would recommend it if you know the show.
Like if you know the show or you have seen the movie, then go for it.
I think you will be lost if you don't know the show at all and if you haven't seen themovie.
(23:23):
Okay.
Is it?
and look, you didn't know, but...
I did it, I did not know, but I think I also knew enough.
I guess there was some knowledge of kind of what to expect without knowing what to expect,probably because of the advertisements on social media that really pushing right now.
(23:45):
I'm gonna ask you because you've seen the movie does this breathe new life into it or doesis this like a must-see Show compare it like how does this rank toward the movie that you
saw prior to this?
Hmm.
I mean, I like the musical aspect of it because the movie is not a musical.
(24:08):
So I like that addition.
I think the movie lends itself more to still even though they have film usage.
It just you can do more in a movie when it comes to imagining, you know, the car and thisthe house like the level of star.
(24:29):
and the delusion that it is makes more sense when she's in her house.
So that part, I think, just what is kind of the defining line between the two.
Sure, absolutely.
This one was lot more leaving things to the imagination, which people can interpretdifferently each and every time.
(24:57):
Yeah, I mean, if you don't know what a 50 star mansion looks like.
Like, if I was to take my younger sister to this, I'm not sure that she would have anyidea.
I don't think she would imagine because she wouldn't know what to imagine.
(25:18):
sure.
That makes sense.
But overall from the two of us, it's a plus.
And so I would recommend it.
I would love to see the show again.
If it was still playing in New York when I went there, I probably would want to catch itagain.
But yeah.
And so for that, we've concluded part two of our Sunset Boulevard discussion.
(25:41):
Thank you so much for joining us and we look forward to seeing you next time.
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