November 30, 2025 • 50 mins
Not even the Wizard can lie about the impact that Wicked has had, not just on the theater world, but on pop culture altogether. While the Broadway show has always been a powerhouse, something incredible happened when part 1 arrived in theaters last year. The entire world was taken by storm, with the world of Oz becoming a household topic of conversation once again. With a story so dynamic, John M. Chu and the creatives at Universal decided that Wicked couldn't be captured in one part, ultimately splitting it into two movies, with Wicked: For Good completing Elphaba and Glinda's story. However, was splitting the story of the Wicked Witch of the West a change for the better?
In this episode of the BSB podcast, hosts Brian Kitson and RJ Miller-Zelinko break down what audiences can expect from Wicked: For Good! Based on the second act of the stage musical, how does the film compare to what has come before? With additional storylines and original songs, does Universal's sequel find its own identity? Listen in as these two talk about what they loved and what didn't work for them in this For Good discussion!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So welcome back to the merry old land of Oz as Wicked for Good has finally arrived incinemas around the world.
(00:06):
The story of Elphaba and Glinda reaches its epic conclusion, begging the question, are weall changed for good with this part too?
That's what we're going to discuss in this episode of the Box Seat Babes Podcast.
But before we jump into it, like, follow, and subscribe to us to stay up to date ontheater news and reviews here on YouTube and across all social media platforms.
Spoiler warning, if you're looking to avoid spoilers like Elphaba needs to avoid water,then most hand down the yellow brick road and return once you've seen Wicked for Good.
(00:32):
Joining me as always is the Elphaba to my Glinda RJ Miller-Zelinko Are you ready to travelback by bubble to Oz?
I prefer broom.
I knew, I tried to make a joke in there about the two of them and I was like, you knowwhat, I just can't fit it in there.
So, and that's, that's fine.
can come and go by bubble.
True, and her broom is fantastic.
(00:55):
The designer of the broom needs a raise.
Like I feel like that broom could actually hold me unlike the broom in the stage versionwhere I'd be like, I don't trust that.
Because the broom in the stage version is literally just like a broom.
This one feels like it's a tree trunk almost.
(01:18):
Yeah.
Um, so before we dive into Wicked for Good as well, I think it's always good to remind thepeople of where our Wicked venture has begun.
And this also just serves as a reminder to talk about how this journey of Box Seat Babeshas begun.
But as always, think, RJ, you are our kind of Resident Evil aficionado, having seen italmost 20 times on stage.
(01:40):
Is that correct?
Yeah, if not more, I probably should have kept count, but I didn't, which is when you knowyou've seen it a lot.
When you no longer have to make a note of how many times you've seen it, it's been toomuch.
What?
too much?
Maybe.
Some songs, definitely.
(02:00):
I think this begs the question as well about just like, know I'm a Wicked fan.
You know I love Wicked.
You know I've seen him multiple times, both in New York, here in Detroit.
But you know that I don't love Act 2 as much as Act 1.
Which I thought I was alone in this until I found out that most of the theater internet,most of the theater girlies, as the kids would say, also agree with that sentiment that
(02:25):
Act Two is not nearly as good as Act One.
I mean, agreed.
I think most of the story happens in Act 1, and then we're just seeing the fallout in Act2.
Somebody that I was following on social media and this part I don't have pulled up so Ican't really call them out But they were talking about how the approach Why it's scary for
(02:48):
a theater person to have this movie split into two parts especially when it was originallyannounced and then why it's so Interesting that they made that decision because when you
think about it It is the act one is the build-up to the point where Elphaba is finallyfree from her the chains of society
And it's all about coming into your own, coming into your power.
But then Act Two starts off four years later where everyone's kind of dismal.
(03:13):
Like things haven't changed, society is still bringing them.
And it's actually about how it's the repercussions of living in a society where no changefrom either the inside or the outside really rectifies a situation, which I thought was
such an interesting take because I never think I put words to it before, but that'sexactly how I feel about Act One and Two and why it's interesting that they split it.
(03:33):
into two films because they are such two distinct stories that people who when they go seeact one, you know, wicked probably aren't expecting what they're going to get and wicked
for good.
Yeah, for some reason, I don't think I recall that timeline in between.
I mean, you know that obviously there has been time, but I just had never paid attentionto that before.
(03:59):
But it does make a couple other things make sense.
um
which is possible they added that to the movie, specifically the four years.
ah Cause I don't remember that from the stage show as well.
And if anybody who has recently seen the stage production wants to let us know in thecomments, that'd be great.
Well, yeah, because then it does make a difference.
(04:20):
Like I think in the stage version.
they feel they as in Glinda and Fiyero feel pretty soon after the happenings whereas inthe movie it felt like it had had been some time because they were more established like
Glinda was in her role actively
(04:44):
I don't know.
just, yeah, it feels a little different.
Whereas when you open act two, it's like, this is like a couple of days later.
And the talk of engagement and all of those pieces feel, make more sense when there's abigger gap.
(05:06):
Although he is still surprised either way and it's still the way that it is, but.
I think that to talk about some of the stuff, we have to go back real quick for those whohaven't seen part one of our show from last year or just haven't seen the show and need a
refresher.
It's been a while.
Obviously Act One has Elphaba and Glinda being classmates.
(05:27):
They are polar opposites.
Elphaba definitely has feelings for Fiyero.
So does um Ariana.
Glinda also has feelings for Fiyero.
Fiyero returns those to
Elphaba but eventually Elphaba goes off to see the wizard to talk about the animal rightsand um sets off on her own journey, leaving the wizard and his regime behind.
(05:53):
And so it's interesting when you're talking about some of these things from part two orWicked for Good.
I also thought in the stage production, it was mere days or even like the same day,because it almost feels like, and this is how I'm looking at it, I guess from like a
like both the psychological standpoint and just also like from like a propagandastandpoint that we'd see is that like something bad happens like Elphaba rejecting the
(06:18):
wizard and you need to almost automatically misdirect the population into something for,you know, that looks good, which is the Fiyero and the Glinda storyline.
So when they said it was been four years in my head, I was like, really?
Like at first I was like, that's weird because like,
have you distracted from all the stuff the Elphaba is doing up to this point?
(06:42):
Like I thought that was the big action to distract if that makes sense.
Well, yes, but then again, in the film, we do see that there's so much buildup alreadyagainst her that it would make sense.
The fear mongering has obviously been happening because like you don't make an enemy outof people overnight, right?
(07:09):
Like that's believable, right?
Like
It's gonna take some time for you to get an entire world to go against someone that theypreviously knew.
But yeah, mean, it's an interesting differential.
(07:35):
And I think what this film does well with that though, is that it opens with that montage.
And what I had noted to you as we were leaving the film, it was a musical montage of allthe songs that pretty much came in part one, but also showed us how Elphaba had been kind
of adding to the destruction of the, the Oz, the patriarchy, you know, the Ozocracy thatit is.
(08:00):
And so to me, that was cool.
Cause that shows you that like, there's been like, there's still activity going in thatfour years.
It wasn't like.
She was just waiting around.
She was actively trying to bring down the wizard, but it wasn't going anywhere.
Like society was still happening.
It was almost in a way in my head, like a Hunger Games kind of situation.
Like things were still happening where like the highest of the high, know, the rich, theclassiest, you know, the highest class was still having their parties and their cake.
(08:29):
And no matter what she was trying to do, there just was nothing happening.
so when they added that piece in there too, that was when it really made sense for me oflike, okay, four years makes sense.
She's actively been trying for four years to show people how bad the wizard is.
And I liked that addition.
Well, yeah, because it makes the buildup seem less instantaneous.
um Like you're not gonna go to try to cut off the head first, right?
(08:55):
Like you're probably gonna try to, as the movie alludes to, get others on your side,redeem any version of your reputation that you can with people that you might trust.
And when that doesn't work,
you're essentially that kind of like losing hope type feeling or that like helplessness oflike, okay, then I just have to go for it.
(09:21):
It feels way more natural because we get that time comparatively to the stage versionwhere we don't seem to get, or it just, maybe we do get that time, but we don't feel like
we get that time.
Right, absolutely.
And you you talked about getting help, and I think that's an interesting point becausesome of what we're going to talk about here is the addition of what was added to the
(09:43):
story.
And as always, we're using the framework of Wicked, the stage show, Act 2 specifically.
And those who have seen the show obviously know that there is a little bit of a flaw inthe stage production.
Act 1 has all of this buildup of Elphaba caring about the animals and their welfare andwanting them to be a part of
(10:03):
Oz and wants them to have freedoms, which is this really important storyline that isreflective of like, people in our society should also have freedoms and should be able to
live the life that they want, you know, that they're not hurting anybody, even thoughsomebody's determining that is.
And then in Act two of the show, they drop that like a a sack of potatoes.
It mostly becomes about the love triangle of Elphaba, Glinda and Fiyero.
(10:27):
But what they did really well in this one is they added in the storyline of her searchingfor the animals.
begging them to stay, wanting them to fight.
Even though there are pieces of that in the stage production, that is something thatWicked for Good did really well, is that there's actual scenes where she's begging animals
who are leaving Oz, don't leave.
We need you.
(10:48):
Oz needs you.
And I think that was a really good uh addition to Wicked for Good that made the story feela little more cohesive.
Yeah, it definitely added to the well-roundedness of the plot um because that circles backessentially a little bit later on when we uh talk about the monkeys that we had basically
(11:14):
ended with in Act 1.
Absolutely.
it also calls into doing that, doing that searching for the animals.
brings up the Cowardly Lion a little bit more and how he felt about being released, whichis something that also isn't added in the show, which I thought was an interesting piece
because never in my wildest dreams would I have thought the Cowardly Lion wouldn't haveliked to be released.
(11:37):
But to him, he was born in a society where caged animals was, he was a cub, you know, likethat was what he thought was okay.
Right, I was very interested in the fact that they tackled that sub line because it hasalways been left up for so much interpretation.
ah And I'm sure that there are people who feel very strongly about one way or the otherbecause that crossover is no longer like a myth.
(12:12):
right, according to this movie, like it is exactly in alignment, which you get in thestage version, but
It feels way more suggested, whereas in this, it is literally confirmed because they arewalking together, because they brought into the light, because they are talking and
(12:33):
singing and have more than just one scene, ah which is basically all we see in the stageversion.
And there is one part that I think I'm talk about a little bit later, but with both theTin Man, which we're gonna talk about in a second, and the Cowardly Lion disliking Elphaba
so much, it does call into question the storyline of the Scarecrow, as you brought up inthe car, and I think it's important to address.
(12:59):
But we'll drop that for a second, because we do have to talk about, before we move intothe story, Glinda.
So with that four-year jump from where we saw her,
being led away by Madame Morrible watching Elphaba fly away.
uh I'm gonna upset a lot of people here right now, okay?
Listeners, we're gonna make eye contact, we're gonna do this.
(13:22):
I did not like uh Couldn't Be Happier in the stage production, no matter how many times Isaw it.
You could not convince me that was a good song.
It was not on my playlist, I skipped it all the time.
Because it didn't make sense.
And it didn't make sense to me.
Again, putting on my psychologist glasses here.
(13:42):
It didn't make sense to me that if it was going to take place right away, that she wassitting there convincing herself that everything was okay because she was so emotionally
distraught when Elphaba left.
But what it does with four years later is you're somebody who has continued to live in asystem trying to actively convince yourself that you love the part that you're playing.
(14:03):
And that to me was much more dynamic for
Glinda than anything that the stage production had done and why I thought it worked sowell in the story.
And finally, maybe I missed that component in the stage production.
Correct me if I'm wrong, RJ but it didn't feel like, again, that there wasn't as muchdisbelief in the fact that she was trying to convince herself she couldn't be happier.
With this one, actually, she looked sad singing it.
(14:25):
Yeah, I also never really was a fan of Couldn't Be Happier, but I did appreciate thisversion more because...
It makes you believe in their, in the strength of their friendship.
Whereas before it was like, wow, she turned real quick.
(14:46):
Like she, she saw power and she didn't care.
And so then it kind of made, not that it diminished any other part because we're all stillemotional wrecks no matter what happens, but this drew the line of like, Oh, she's, she
had to, she had to live through this.
(15:07):
Ultimately is still very much carrying this trauma, um, but trying to convince herselfthat she's okay, which I think is, like you said, it's way more relatable because we are
so much more likely to keep going through something even if we know that it's not for usor not like end game.
(15:37):
what we want it to be, but if for survival, which this kind of felt like for survivalpurposes, and I'm sure we'll get into that a bit later too, but yeah, it made me
appreciate that song.
It made me appreciate the characterization more, because yeah, there was more depth.
(15:57):
It also made me believe that Glinda actively believed that maybe change could be made fromthe inside out, even when she was questioning it, which I think that a lot of people
struggle with as well.
Like we live in a society where things don't always feel great.
And we think that maybe if we just, we can make change through our government, we can makechange through our, by voting the right people in.
Unlike Elphaba, who's like, you got to start all over, you know, you got to, you got tobring it down and start over from scratch.
(16:23):
And so I think that a lot of people, when they, when they have that moment,
Like when I think it happens with all of us when we're voting or something of like, isthis the good choice?
Am I going to be making good choice?
Is this the right thing?
Am I happy with what I'm doing here?
And so I do think that like maybe it's the acting of Ariana Grande in this role thatreally brings that out.
(16:44):
But I I believed it a little bit more of that conflict where before you're right, itliterally felt like, well, man, she just turned on her best friend and didn't even care.
Like she was just, she's moving on.
She's right.
She's, she has the man, she has the power, she has the, the, you know, the status.
Where this one, there was that conflict, which was much more intriguing.
(17:06):
Well, I just think of the lyrics in the song, like in the stage version, it kind of didn'tmake sense because you're like, you didn't feel like she was questioning it.
I think the lyrics is like, um literally she questions herself, right?
Like couldn't be happier, right?
Because getting your dreams is strange, but it seemed blah, blah.
(17:27):
The stage version, you're like, it's almost like a right, but then in the movie it waslike.
it she actually looked and seemed like she would like she had to stop because she didn'tactually know the answer.
Which again could be you know just Ariana doing an absolute stellar job could be thedirector directing that particular you know all the things put together but I think it was
(17:58):
it gives the people a little bit more of what they want.
I do have to note one more thing about this before we move on, because obviously we have alot to cover.
But I watched a video this morning where Ariana was about to film the part where she comesout during Couldn't Be Happier to give her speech.
know, John Chu was like, okay, we're going to be ready in like five, four.
And Ariana says, I think I'm going to come out singing la la, you know, like from Popular.
(18:23):
And he didn't even, like he was still counting and she just.
walked out and did it and they're like, oh wait, that's actually Glinda.
So I do think that there's a lot of understanding.
Like obviously Ariana has loved this character forever.
She's been championing this role in this movie.
And so I do think that some of these choices that she's making, like what better way toconvince the people that everything is good while singing the song that made everybody
(18:45):
feel good in the first film.
You know what I mean?
Like while nobody else was in that room with, with Elphaba and Glinda, that was, that'sthe song that people feel bubbly to.
No pun intended.
But.
So I think that's an interesting choice, you know, of these roles of like, how do youconvince other people you're happy?
You're bubbly, you're singing la la, you're happy, even though maybe underneath you reallyare having such a negative feel about everything.
(19:10):
Which takes us into, think, I'm trying to think of like, narratively, how do we go?
Cause like, there's so much happening, but I think the next thread that this connects tois, so you have these two people, these two very important people, they obviously love
each other.
Are they a little too in love with each other maybe?
Perhaps.
And then they meet again.
And usually they meet pretty much not until for good, you know, their story, or I guess Ishould say the fight in the Munchkin lands where they really meet next.
(19:37):
They have their fight in Munchkin land, but in this one, meet for wonderful.
And that was such a significant change.
As somebody who is a wicked purist, perhaps, did you like the addition of Ariana?
and Glinda to wonderful and that whole sequence that it kind of it that it built upon.
(20:01):
Ummm...
That's a no.
It's just different.
I wouldn't say that I didn't like it and I wouldn't say that I loved it.
um Just because again, like even the setup to that scene and then post scene, whathappens, like that changes a lot of things.
(20:26):
um
I did appreciate her...
I did appreciate what they were trying to do in the delivery of that song because itdoesn't make sense to me for Elphaba to walk into a room with the wizard and like not to
be brutal but like if you have a guy who's like aiming to kill you constantly and you'rein a room with him alone
(20:49):
You're not going there.
You're like, either, well, yeah, that or like, you're going one way or the other, right?
Like, he's either gonna come at you, you're gonna go at him, somebody's gonna die.
Like, you know, like, it just doesn't feel real to just kind of like casually talk my waythrough a scene and then have it be over.
(21:12):
So to have almost Glinda as a mediator um made the convincing part.
more real because I'm not gonna, if I despise someone, the last thing I'm gonna do islisten to a thing that comes out of their mouth.
But if you anchor that with my lifelong, not lifelong, but longtime best friend who Ihaven't seen in forever.
(21:39):
Now I'm emotionally captured.
There's more of uh an anchor, there's more of a weight on that than just the wizard.
what I like about the two scenes.
Because there's the scene where Elphaba arrives at Glinda's doorstep basically while she'sin a wedding dress, know, trying, getting ready for her wedding.
And basically, to me, it felt very much like the, I'm saying goodbye because I'm notmaking out with the next fight.
(22:06):
You know, like I'm gonna go and confront the wizard and I'm not making it out alive.
And so I wanted to see you one more time before that happened.
So to me, if they would have kept wonderful the way it was, it probably could have workedwith that first scene.
But I like because you're correct.
Who's going to convince Elphaba of anything?
Who's been the only person to convince her of anything this entire story?
It's been Glinda.
(22:27):
Once they earned each other's respect, there was nothing could really break that,including the fact that even though she didn't like that Glinda stage, she respected at
the end of Wicked, the first part.
And so I think that it makes sense that this song comes from Glinda in that way.
Also
(22:48):
Did you need the wizard at that point then?
Like, I guess that scene, what did that really do?
You got the monkeys, you needed to get the monkeys released.
You also need to discover the other things.
It almost was this moment, I think, it made me more sad because I was like, I know what'scoming and no amount of reconnection here is gonna really matter until we get to For Good
(23:09):
the song.
And so that hurt my soul a little bit.
Which is probably what they were aiming for.
correct.
Um, but throughout all of this, have two different other storylines.
have Elphaba and Fiyero, which we're gonna have to talk about.
What is their love?
Honestly, at this point, not that their, um, that their duet isn't good, but I think withsuch a heavy storyline on Elphaba and Glinda, this definitely felt a little, fell a little
(23:39):
flat for me.
Um, did you like, would you agree with that?
It wasn't quite.
I don't think that I ever liked Elphaba and Fiyero together.
And maybe that's just me.
What's that supposed to mean?
Jonathan Bailey should be for me.
(24:02):
I am not sure if it's just my inability to look past the actors at this point with theromance, romantic pieces of this.
Um, obviously the amount of queerness in this movie is a lot and it felt queer.
(24:24):
And so it didn't feel like when I see the stage version,
like okay like the chemistry the sexual the sensuality ah it just feels very strong and itdid not feel that way to me in the movie even with as long as your mine like it just not
(24:49):
that it wasn't performed well not that they didn't both sing great but it was like almosttoo soft ah
Like I didn't feel like they needed.
the characters didn't feel like they needed to be together.
Like the chemistry was not there for me.
just gonna read a text message that someone sent me after they saw it because I think itsums it up.
(25:13):
Jump scare was when the lesbian and the gay man got sexy together, forgot that was coming,it also felt unnatural.
Yeah.
And honestly, I'm not even sure if it is because of their sexuality.
just, I mean, I'm sure that plays a part because it just is.
some things you just can't act and you can't unact.
(25:35):
mean, we've seen folks.
played, gave, seen gay folks play straight folks.
We've seen straight folks play gay folks and like it almost never works.
oh
Yeah, it as someone who like doesn't even enjoy like steamy anything, ah it was it wasn'tenough for me to be interested in that part of the plot.
(26:03):
I don't know if you remember, but when we began this journey, which was with Wicked, you'dwent with me to Wicked all those years ago, I remember standing there, I think it was
after the show, and I said, I've never bought into Fiyero an Elphaba because there's justsomething about it that doesn't, the chemistry doesn't always click for me.
(26:23):
And I think what really happened with this film is that I'm wondering if it's, I want topreface this by saying anybody out there, Jonathan Bailey.
is fantastic.
did a really good job as Fiyero.
I think that the chemistry wasn't there, but part of me thinks that it was because hewasn't on set nearly enough because he's filming every other movie.
And so where Ariana and and Cynthia were like literally intertwining themselves atlunchtime, know, crossing their arms and tapping each other's nails like.
(26:53):
He was flying in, filming parts flying out, you know what I mean?
I feel like that does add to some of those pieces because you don't get to spend time.
soaking up the chemistry with each other to build that up.
Yeah, and honestly, again, because there was two movies and we got press tour one, presstour two, like press tour one, every person and their mother bought into Elphaba and
(27:19):
Glinda know, like Fiera was like an afterthought and again, continue to be anafterthought, not because he isn't great, but because I mean, I would be very curious to
see the.
statistics on who's going to see this movie.
And I can bet you that it is very heavily female oriented in relation to their friends,their female friends, um and or lovers.
(27:47):
But just like that connection, that connectivity is what the movie really, which it isvery much what it is about at the end of the day.
uh And really, Fiyero is just like a...
I mean, kind of a side piece.
uh
got a man to be a side piece instead of always a female playing a side piece.
(28:08):
like the dot the you know, the signature on the dotted line technically is them at quoteunquote the end It doesn't feel that way because really physically maybe that might be the
thing but what they're singing is not that so
So more storyline that we have to talk to before we get to all the other pieces is justthe Nessa storyline, I think is my favorite to discuss here.
(28:37):
So for those who have seen the stage production, obviously you know Nessa takes overMunchkinland, she basically essentially kidnaps Baq and keeps him hostage, and he
ultimately becomes, spoiler alert, the Tin Man because of her actions and then Elphabasaving him.
So.
Dude, they made Nessa ruthless in this one because that girl let Baq walk away thinking hehad his freedom, have his freedom, and then was like, nope, no munchkins get to leave
(29:10):
Munchkinland without my permission and I am not giving any of you permission.
I was like, in that moment, I think I was like, oh no, this bitch needs a house dropped onher ASAP, which sounds mean, but I was like, oh, guys actually made her ruthless.
which probably was a better storyline for her because she was actually one of thevillainous people in this story.
(29:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think it very much tracks for what she was.
I think we vilified her very early in movie one, ah more than the stage production does.
And so it didn't feel hard in movie two to be like, oh, you're gross.
(29:53):
um But then from another angle,
I just can't even fathom.
Again, to be in her shoes.
Ayo.
have, you you go off to school, your sister who wasn't supposed to come along comes alongand now she basically is renowned.
(30:16):
for not good reasons.
Or much so that your dad dies, who was the only person who gave a shit about you.
And then the guy that you've been crushing on forever is actually like, I'm in love withsomeone else and I always have been, and you're the worst.
True.
mean, yeah, I mean she does get the short end of the stick uh I think that they I thinkthey definitely played her up being more villainous with with that decision.
(30:43):
I think that was a very obvious intention to be like We don't feel so bad for her.
But also she's also a victim of the system.
You know what mean?
So I feel like that's the part of this That this play or the show this movie that reallyis interesting is that everybody is a victim of the system
At least all the people that you care about.
(31:04):
Nobody is free from the shackles that hold them in, which really does carry on through theend of the show.
With that being said...
We do have to get to the end of the show.
So just to speed it along people.
ah Obviously we come in contact with the original Wizard of Oz story.
(31:24):
Eventually we see Dorothy set down the yellow brick road, ultimately leading to thereunion of Elphaba and Glinda to deliver the powerful uh for good that made nobody here
cry.
Nobody cried.
There was no tears.
Not a single tear.
Um.
(31:45):
But it ultimately ends with Elphaba dying, moving on with her life.
ah
But they did make a change at the end.
Do we want to talk about the end or do we want to leave that for people to find out asthey watch it?
I mean, if they've listened this far.
That's true.
Okay, so part of the storyline that goes through here is there's another dimension thatpeople are walking into, which is like a desert-esque, there's nothing there, but it's
(32:15):
where Elphaba goes.
um I guess first off, let's back up.
Let's talk about the villain of the story.
Do you feel like the film changed that?
Because why did I get the fact that I felt like Madame Morrible was pulling all of thestrings?
and that the wizard was just kind of like a doofus.
Did you feel that at all in this film?
(32:37):
Yeah, I mean, I think...
His presence was very slim, which it is anyway, but...
There was definitely some active work to make sure that we knew that Madame Morrible wasexactly who she was, uh which is running the show.
(32:59):
ah Between the scene of, I can't remember where they are, but there's, you know, maybe heroffice where there's flyers everywhere, all every variation that she has printed on the
witch.
ah
And it's just like her.
villainry, if that's even a word, um becomes very, very clear so that then when we look atthe wizard we're kind of like, well he's just kind of here.
(33:30):
Yeah.
Um, even with the animals hidden away, it was just kind of like, all we get is, you know,it's not what you think.
So we really don't get any type of, I mean, aside from him saying that people, you know,speaking out.
But we still that we know that Madame Morrible was also at the head of that.
(33:52):
So there's no like.
Particular evil doing that.
I don't see them both.
next to each other for, but yeah, it felt, it was pretty heavy.
And it really calls into question, why does he get to fly away, but that Madame Morriblegoes into a jail cell?
(34:15):
You know I mean?
Because it wasn't his actions just as bad.
And I feel like in the stage show, they made it seem like he was very much still in chargeof it all.
And this one very much felt like that, well, you were just the ditzy old man, so fly away,go have a good life, but we'll put the real villain in jail.
So I thought that was an interesting.
maybe change, maybe it's just a different interpretation, maybe that's how it is in thestage production and I just don't remember, but I feel like that was very distinct for
(34:41):
Wicked for Good and just something worth noting.
uh And obviously, like we said, Glinda takes over, she ends up building a better society,and Elphaba goes on her way with the scarecrow Jonathan Bailey.
The end, end of the story, no.
uh But with this show,
(35:03):
The last film we talked about, there was a clear standout performance, acting, singingwise, that we truly loved.
Are you still riding a high with Cynthia as Elphie or do you feel like there's somebodyelse from the show for part two that really kind of took the crown?
That snatched the broomstick, so to speak.
(35:24):
Wearing the witch's hats.
Uh, I think that act two is naturally act acting heavy on Glinda.
Um, I also just cause I don't think even though maybe we do see them equally, but there'smore development that has to happen.
(35:45):
Like Elphaba character wise stays pretty consistent.
Like we already know what she's about and like she stays that way the entire time.
through Act 2, whereas Glinda starts Act 2 one way, but then ends Act 2 different.
(36:06):
Like, she has the most growth opportunity, and I think that was on full display for themovie as well.
I think that's very much present in the stage production too, or even let's say the twoparts of the movie.
Elphaba had the growth circle at the beginning and that is what just to be almost Glindastory.
You know what I mean?
Like there's two very distinct pieces here and it's not two friends growing, but one islike growing to meet the challenge and one is growing from the challenge.
(36:35):
And that is the two distinct pieces of Wicked and why this story works so well.
So we're talking about music.
Obviously all the songs we know from part two or act two are there.
I will just say mad props to Cynthia for no good deed.
That blew me out of the water.
And I don't know if you remember, but I leaned over to you and said, what the fu...
(36:57):
Like I was so shocked by her performance in that song.
And also for good.
Okay, people, I'm going to admit it.
I did ball like a baby.
So the joke saw the, you I cry like a baby.
It is really good.
Did you, what standout piece did you have from the classic Wicked songs of Act Two orWicked for Good?
(37:18):
Um.
I mean those two songs as well.
Those really are the pieces of Act Two.
Yeah, I mean, and I think again, Act One is so heavy on everything in regards to the showum and musically.
So Act Two only really has like a tiny, tiny bit of, I hate to say good music, but thebops, know, like the ones that people will go and sing for the rest of forever.
(37:50):
um
No Good Deed will now be probably the anthem just as Defying Gravity, the run in DefyingGravity was the anthem for what, a year?
People doing her runs and trills.
And now I think No Good Deed equally is hard, if not more, um because you're just in thebelt the whole time.
(38:12):
But yeah, and to think that she's, every time, like as we were watching it, I'm just like,and she was flying.
And she was midair and she is, know, like so many people can be like, I'm singing on arecord or I'm singing standing or I'm singing sitting, but like she's freaking in the air.
(38:36):
Um, that's absurd.
Uh, I, I, I, just goes to tell you, and I'm sure like at the start of this, they probablycouldn't do that.
So it just tells me how much work they had to put in.
and how much dedication that they had to put in because damn, you won't catch me flyingaround singing that song, you know, however high up in the air.
(39:03):
even stand in place in single song, what are you talking about?
You have to do flips in the air?
Also that.
Also that.
Catch me laying on the ground on my back, maybe singing this song.
But that does lead us to the fact that there are two original songs, uh No Place LikeHome, which was partially written in collaboration with Cynthia Erivo, and then The Girl
(39:25):
in the Bubble.
You were not a fan of these songs.
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure as I listen to them, they'll grow on me as most things do.
I understand why they were there.
I appreciate the character growth and development that they're trying to tell.
And I enjoyed getting the additional time with the characters.
(39:47):
I just don't know that the lyrics specifically felt.
Neither the lyrics or the musicality of the songs were something that
I felt I would remember.
I think that what is always missing from Act 2 is the fact that there is not an energysong, if that makes any sense.
(40:07):
I don't know if that's right term, but like there's not a song that's like, like thatcaptures like an energetic moment other than like no good deed.
All the songs are kind of slow.
They're kind of mournful.
They're kind of sad.
They're kind of, and so to me, you added two more songs that were mournful and sad, whichagain, we're speaking to the tone of the film.
get that it's a little bit darker, but why isn't there like,
(40:30):
Why isn't Elphaba singing about being free or what the war has done to her?
I get that's kind of what's going on here, but I don't know.
I feel like the energy was off for those two ones.
You didn't need two more slow songs.
You needed something that had a little bit, that had the defying gravity moment orpopular, something that people are gonna remember, because Act 2 doesn't have as many uh
(40:54):
memorable songs.
And I think that's...
what happens with these two songs is that it drags it down a little bit more and adds alittle bit of pacing issues that I think could have been solved in a different way.
Like the pacing was a little slow.
Yeah, and I get like, because both of these were in tandem with the scenes that they kindof added, right?
(41:15):
Because they had to.
It makes sense for what they were.
But again, even even with the
songs that are upbeat like there there are songs in act two that are upbeat but they'rejust not like the power they're not powerful right we get like couldn't be happier that's
(41:38):
technically upbeat march of the witch hunters technically upbeat when you talk about tempoand you talk about the way that the song moves but the lyrical piece of them are
not happy.
Which again, you said it's not supposed to be really the only happy piece that we get areas long as your mine which I don't know if you call that happy or just sensual.
(42:04):
Um, and for good, happy and sad at the same time.
But yeah.
So obviously before we close, we need to talk about costumes because the last film wonbest costumes thanks to Paul Tazewell who also had a good year for Death Becomes Her.
(42:27):
It was a real Paul Tazewell year.
What did you think of the costumes this time around?
Did anything stand out about them?
I guess I should say, the one in the costume that really stood out to me, becauseElphaba's very
wearing a lot of black, Ness is wearing a lot of black, there's a lot of pink going on,but Boq's costume once he went to being the Tin Man was really, really good.
(42:55):
Yeah, and it was the one thing that I think nobody knew what it was going to be, right?
Like I would say, even though they are, I'm sure different variations of very similarcostumes, like you can almost always predict what Elphaba is going to be wearing, um,
aside from her scene with, um, Fiyero.
(43:16):
I was like, uh, I don't know what's happening.
Um, and then Glinda like always pretty in pink, basically.
Yes.
but yeah, those one-offs like NASA, I wasn't sure.
Uh, Boq Um, and then yeah, like just, and, Morrible too, like you just don't, you weren'tsure also because, um, well, I'm trying to think Morrible's costume is very unique in the
(43:49):
stage version and I don't think it really changes.
Um.
but in this she did have personality in her costume.
So it was very interesting to see the interpretation, of course, from stage to movie, butalso from act one to act two, movie one to movie two.
Something I do wanna just address about the costumes is that um Glinda does go through ajourney.
(44:16):
So obviously when we first meet here in Wicked, she's in pink.
She wears a lot of pink, obviously through the show.
But in this one, as you notice, she wore a lot more blue.
And so this is um a thread that um Valkyries, but Elfie on X was talking about.
So...
um
(44:36):
They noted that uh Glinda, I'll just read it.
Paul talks about how Elphaba and Glinda's colors undermine what we traditionally think iswicked, black, and good pink.
Cutting Room Floor interviews with him talks about the artificial perfection of pink, the1950s archetype of the housewife, and using the era of Dior as inspiration for Glinda's
(44:57):
looks, which you can definitely see as the story progresses.
how the costume design was informed by his experience as a black gay man and that Wickedis about anyone who is being judged before speaking.
So then if we go down a little bit, they say, in my opinion, think Glinda wears the bluepurple dress because it's her attempt to assert control over her choices because her pink
(45:18):
outfits have been co-opted by the wizard in Madame Morrible into a propaganda machine.
She's in pink at the start during Everyday More Wicked and she's peak Glinda the Good andlater when the pink slip,
with the pink slip of her wedding dress when she's helping the wizard convince Alva aboutto join him.
But then she's in the blue dress when she's at her most rebellious, miserable point inwhere she's actually actively against Madame Morrible and the wizard, but also when she's
(45:42):
experienced the most change in her storyline.
So I think that it is so interesting because I don't think I noticed it at first, but whenI read that, said that makes a lot of sense because the moment that she starts to really
change, the dress goes to that bluey purpley pink color, and then it's more towards theblue.
as that scene goes on, as she's going to Elphaba to meet her at the castle, which I justthought was such a cool interpretation.
(46:08):
And shout out again to this individual who pointed out, because that's the kind of journeythat I love about costuming and why Paul Tazewell probably deserves best costume yet
again.
That is so cool.
Yeah, yeah, well, and yeah, so much can be said with clothing and colors, especially whenpeople have staple colors or what they're expected to wear.
(46:34):
I did notice that differential towards maybe not so much in the middle of the For Good butum when you're going from the glitzy, glammy pink.
And I think there was the scene
where she is about to go right out to Elphaba.
(46:56):
And they actually spotlight her picking up a black robe, or maybe it's dark blue, I can'tremember, and the boots, and just things that you wouldn't traditionally see her wear.
And it was an active choice to be zoned in on that.
So I'm sure, because then when she's actively making her first kind of...
(47:20):
visually apparent descent from the wizard and Madame Morrible she is literally wearing adifferent color than what we might have seen previously.
And not just that, and people can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure she'swearing Elphaba's boots from Act One, which is an absolute, like defying the wizard and
(47:46):
accepting this person fully.
Which like, what a great moment.
Yeah, that was also a very interesting.
I would love to be in conversation with them on that choice.
what, I mean, we can all have our interpretations, right?
But I'm curious.
how, choice that was and what they felt it was supposed to embody because it, like you're,you're physically stepping into somebody else's shoes.
(48:15):
So what does that mean or what did they want it to mean?
You hear that Paul, if you're around and you're listening to this, let us know.
We'd love to talk to you.
That being said, before we wrap up, RJ is wicked for good, good enough and good enough foryou to see it again.
(48:35):
ah Well, definitely.
would see it again just because there's, again, this movie's massive.
uh There's so much happening.
There's things that I'm sure I didn't even catch because in order to truly like, whetheryou're looking at the costumes or listening to the music or just the sheer orchestration
also throughout the entire film, like it's all new.
(48:59):
And this felt further away from the stage version than act one or than part one did.
uh
Musically so that I was kind of like almost thrown off because I'm trying to figure outwhich song is going where and so visually Just for visuals alone.
I would go And see it one to two more times just to catch all of the things that I didn'tcatch the first time um So in short, that's a hard yes
(49:28):
And as somebody who was already seeing it multiple times this week, it's also a yes.
I will also be seeing it again, because I do think that what this is, and I think this issomething to another podcast at another time.
ah But I think that what this has begun has shown people that musicals can also bephenomenons.
(49:51):
And so I...
will obviously support this, but I think that it does really well because I think that thepeople who made this film really loved it.
And you can see the love poured into it.
So it's a definite yes for me to see this again.
I need to see it a couple more times to just truly appreciate it.
And just to find out if maybe we also are feeling wicked.
And with that, we have concluded our journey into Oz.
(50:14):
But stay tuned for future episodes of the Box Seat Babes podcast.
Thank you again for joining us on our Box Seats Until next curtain call.
So welcome back to the merry old land of Oz as Wicked for Good has finally arrived incinemas around the world.
(00:06):
The story of Elphaba and Glinda reaches its epic conclusion, begging the question, are weall changed for good with this part too?
That's what we're going to discuss in this episode of the Box Seat Babes Podcast.
But before we jump into it, like, follow, and subscribe to us to stay up to date ontheater news and reviews here on YouTube and across all social media platforms.
Spoiler warning, if you're looking to avoid spoilers like Elphaba needs to avoid water,then most hand down the yellow brick road and return once you've seen Wicked for Good.
(00:32):
Joining me as always is the Elphaba to my Glinda RJ Miller-Zelinko Are you ready to travelback by bubble to Oz?
I prefer broom.
I knew, I tried to make a joke in there about the two of them and I was like, you knowwhat, I just can't fit it in there.
So, and that's, that's fine.
can come and go by bubble.
True, and her broom is fantastic.
(00:55):
The designer of the broom needs a raise.
Like I feel like that broom could actually hold me unlike the broom in the stage versionwhere I'd be like, I don't trust that.
Because the broom in the stage version is literally just like a broom.
This one feels like it's a tree trunk almost.
(01:18):
Yeah.
Um, so before we dive into Wicked for Good as well, I think it's always good to remind thepeople of where our Wicked venture has begun.
And this also just serves as a reminder to talk about how this journey of Box Seat Babeshas begun.
But as always, think, RJ, you are our kind of Resident Evil aficionado, having seen italmost 20 times on stage.
(01:40):
Is that correct?
Yeah, if not more, I probably should have kept count, but I didn't, which is when you knowyou've seen it a lot.
When you no longer have to make a note of how many times you've seen it, it's been toomuch.
What?
too much?
Maybe.
Some songs, definitely.
(02:00):
I think this begs the question as well about just like, know I'm a Wicked fan.
You know I love Wicked.
You know I've seen him multiple times, both in New York, here in Detroit.
But you know that I don't love Act 2 as much as Act 1.
Which I thought I was alone in this until I found out that most of the theater internet,most of the theater girlies, as the kids would say, also agree with that sentiment that
(02:25):
Act Two is not nearly as good as Act One.
I mean, agreed.
I think most of the story happens in Act 1, and then we're just seeing the fallout in Act2.
Somebody that I was following on social media and this part I don't have pulled up so Ican't really call them out But they were talking about how the approach Why it's scary for
(02:48):
a theater person to have this movie split into two parts especially when it was originallyannounced and then why it's so Interesting that they made that decision because when you
think about it It is the act one is the build-up to the point where Elphaba is finallyfree from her the chains of society
And it's all about coming into your own, coming into your power.
But then Act Two starts off four years later where everyone's kind of dismal.
(03:13):
Like things haven't changed, society is still bringing them.
And it's actually about how it's the repercussions of living in a society where no changefrom either the inside or the outside really rectifies a situation, which I thought was
such an interesting take because I never think I put words to it before, but that'sexactly how I feel about Act One and Two and why it's interesting that they split it.
(03:33):
into two films because they are such two distinct stories that people who when they go seeact one, you know, wicked probably aren't expecting what they're going to get and wicked
for good.
Yeah, for some reason, I don't think I recall that timeline in between.
I mean, you know that obviously there has been time, but I just had never paid attentionto that before.
(03:59):
But it does make a couple other things make sense.
um
which is possible they added that to the movie, specifically the four years.
ah Cause I don't remember that from the stage show as well.
And if anybody who has recently seen the stage production wants to let us know in thecomments, that'd be great.
Well, yeah, because then it does make a difference.
(04:20):
Like I think in the stage version.
they feel they as in Glinda and Fiyero feel pretty soon after the happenings whereas inthe movie it felt like it had had been some time because they were more established like
Glinda was in her role actively
(04:44):
I don't know.
just, yeah, it feels a little different.
Whereas when you open act two, it's like, this is like a couple of days later.
And the talk of engagement and all of those pieces feel, make more sense when there's abigger gap.
(05:06):
Although he is still surprised either way and it's still the way that it is, but.
I think that to talk about some of the stuff, we have to go back real quick for those whohaven't seen part one of our show from last year or just haven't seen the show and need a
refresher.
It's been a while.
Obviously Act One has Elphaba and Glinda being classmates.
(05:27):
They are polar opposites.
Elphaba definitely has feelings for Fiyero.
So does um Ariana.
Glinda also has feelings for Fiyero.
Fiyero returns those to
Elphaba but eventually Elphaba goes off to see the wizard to talk about the animal rightsand um sets off on her own journey, leaving the wizard and his regime behind.
(05:53):
And so it's interesting when you're talking about some of these things from part two orWicked for Good.
I also thought in the stage production, it was mere days or even like the same day,because it almost feels like, and this is how I'm looking at it, I guess from like a
like both the psychological standpoint and just also like from like a propagandastandpoint that we'd see is that like something bad happens like Elphaba rejecting the
(06:18):
wizard and you need to almost automatically misdirect the population into something for,you know, that looks good, which is the Fiyero and the Glinda storyline.
So when they said it was been four years in my head, I was like, really?
Like at first I was like, that's weird because like,
have you distracted from all the stuff the Elphaba is doing up to this point?
(06:42):
Like I thought that was the big action to distract if that makes sense.
Well, yes, but then again, in the film, we do see that there's so much buildup alreadyagainst her that it would make sense.
The fear mongering has obviously been happening because like you don't make an enemy outof people overnight, right?
(07:09):
Like that's believable, right?
Like
It's gonna take some time for you to get an entire world to go against someone that theypreviously knew.
But yeah, mean, it's an interesting differential.
(07:35):
And I think what this film does well with that though, is that it opens with that montage.
And what I had noted to you as we were leaving the film, it was a musical montage of allthe songs that pretty much came in part one, but also showed us how Elphaba had been kind
of adding to the destruction of the, the Oz, the patriarchy, you know, the Ozocracy thatit is.
(08:00):
And so to me, that was cool.
Cause that shows you that like, there's been like, there's still activity going in thatfour years.
It wasn't like.
She was just waiting around.
She was actively trying to bring down the wizard, but it wasn't going anywhere.
Like society was still happening.
It was almost in a way in my head, like a Hunger Games kind of situation.
Like things were still happening where like the highest of the high, know, the rich, theclassiest, you know, the highest class was still having their parties and their cake.
(08:29):
And no matter what she was trying to do, there just was nothing happening.
so when they added that piece in there too, that was when it really made sense for me oflike, okay, four years makes sense.
She's actively been trying for four years to show people how bad the wizard is.
And I liked that addition.
Well, yeah, because it makes the buildup seem less instantaneous.
um Like you're not gonna go to try to cut off the head first, right?
(08:55):
Like you're probably gonna try to, as the movie alludes to, get others on your side,redeem any version of your reputation that you can with people that you might trust.
And when that doesn't work,
you're essentially that kind of like losing hope type feeling or that like helplessness oflike, okay, then I just have to go for it.
(09:21):
It feels way more natural because we get that time comparatively to the stage versionwhere we don't seem to get, or it just, maybe we do get that time, but we don't feel like
we get that time.
Right, absolutely.
And you you talked about getting help, and I think that's an interesting point becausesome of what we're going to talk about here is the addition of what was added to the
(09:43):
story.
And as always, we're using the framework of Wicked, the stage show, Act 2 specifically.
And those who have seen the show obviously know that there is a little bit of a flaw inthe stage production.
Act 1 has all of this buildup of Elphaba caring about the animals and their welfare andwanting them to be a part of
(10:03):
Oz and wants them to have freedoms, which is this really important storyline that isreflective of like, people in our society should also have freedoms and should be able to
live the life that they want, you know, that they're not hurting anybody, even thoughsomebody's determining that is.
And then in Act two of the show, they drop that like a a sack of potatoes.
It mostly becomes about the love triangle of Elphaba, Glinda and Fiyero.
(10:27):
But what they did really well in this one is they added in the storyline of her searchingfor the animals.
begging them to stay, wanting them to fight.
Even though there are pieces of that in the stage production, that is something thatWicked for Good did really well, is that there's actual scenes where she's begging animals
who are leaving Oz, don't leave.
We need you.
(10:48):
Oz needs you.
And I think that was a really good uh addition to Wicked for Good that made the story feela little more cohesive.
Yeah, it definitely added to the well-roundedness of the plot um because that circles backessentially a little bit later on when we uh talk about the monkeys that we had basically
(11:14):
ended with in Act 1.
Absolutely.
it also calls into doing that, doing that searching for the animals.
brings up the Cowardly Lion a little bit more and how he felt about being released, whichis something that also isn't added in the show, which I thought was an interesting piece
because never in my wildest dreams would I have thought the Cowardly Lion wouldn't haveliked to be released.
(11:37):
But to him, he was born in a society where caged animals was, he was a cub, you know, likethat was what he thought was okay.
Right, I was very interested in the fact that they tackled that sub line because it hasalways been left up for so much interpretation.
ah And I'm sure that there are people who feel very strongly about one way or the otherbecause that crossover is no longer like a myth.
(12:12):
right, according to this movie, like it is exactly in alignment, which you get in thestage version, but
It feels way more suggested, whereas in this, it is literally confirmed because they arewalking together, because they brought into the light, because they are talking and
(12:33):
singing and have more than just one scene, ah which is basically all we see in the stageversion.
And there is one part that I think I'm talk about a little bit later, but with both theTin Man, which we're gonna talk about in a second, and the Cowardly Lion disliking Elphaba
so much, it does call into question the storyline of the Scarecrow, as you brought up inthe car, and I think it's important to address.
(12:59):
But we'll drop that for a second, because we do have to talk about, before we move intothe story, Glinda.
So with that four-year jump from where we saw her,
being led away by Madame Morrible watching Elphaba fly away.
uh I'm gonna upset a lot of people here right now, okay?
Listeners, we're gonna make eye contact, we're gonna do this.
(13:22):
I did not like uh Couldn't Be Happier in the stage production, no matter how many times Isaw it.
You could not convince me that was a good song.
It was not on my playlist, I skipped it all the time.
Because it didn't make sense.
And it didn't make sense to me.
Again, putting on my psychologist glasses here.
(13:42):
It didn't make sense to me that if it was going to take place right away, that she wassitting there convincing herself that everything was okay because she was so emotionally
distraught when Elphaba left.
But what it does with four years later is you're somebody who has continued to live in asystem trying to actively convince yourself that you love the part that you're playing.
(14:03):
And that to me was much more dynamic for
Glinda than anything that the stage production had done and why I thought it worked sowell in the story.
And finally, maybe I missed that component in the stage production.
Correct me if I'm wrong, RJ but it didn't feel like, again, that there wasn't as muchdisbelief in the fact that she was trying to convince herself she couldn't be happier.
With this one, actually, she looked sad singing it.
(14:25):
Yeah, I also never really was a fan of Couldn't Be Happier, but I did appreciate thisversion more because...
It makes you believe in their, in the strength of their friendship.
Whereas before it was like, wow, she turned real quick.
(14:46):
Like she, she saw power and she didn't care.
And so then it kind of made, not that it diminished any other part because we're all stillemotional wrecks no matter what happens, but this drew the line of like, Oh, she's, she
had to, she had to live through this.
(15:07):
Ultimately is still very much carrying this trauma, um, but trying to convince herselfthat she's okay, which I think is, like you said, it's way more relatable because we are
so much more likely to keep going through something even if we know that it's not for usor not like end game.
(15:37):
what we want it to be, but if for survival, which this kind of felt like for survivalpurposes, and I'm sure we'll get into that a bit later too, but yeah, it made me
appreciate that song.
It made me appreciate the characterization more, because yeah, there was more depth.
(15:57):
It also made me believe that Glinda actively believed that maybe change could be made fromthe inside out, even when she was questioning it, which I think that a lot of people
struggle with as well.
Like we live in a society where things don't always feel great.
And we think that maybe if we just, we can make change through our government, we can makechange through our, by voting the right people in.
Unlike Elphaba, who's like, you got to start all over, you know, you got to, you got tobring it down and start over from scratch.
(16:23):
And so I think that a lot of people, when they, when they have that moment,
Like when I think it happens with all of us when we're voting or something of like, isthis the good choice?
Am I going to be making good choice?
Is this the right thing?
Am I happy with what I'm doing here?
And so I do think that like maybe it's the acting of Ariana Grande in this role thatreally brings that out.
(16:44):
But I I believed it a little bit more of that conflict where before you're right, itliterally felt like, well, man, she just turned on her best friend and didn't even care.
Like she was just, she's moving on.
She's right.
She's, she has the man, she has the power, she has the, the, you know, the status.
Where this one, there was that conflict, which was much more intriguing.
(17:06):
Well, I just think of the lyrics in the song, like in the stage version, it kind of didn'tmake sense because you're like, you didn't feel like she was questioning it.
I think the lyrics is like, um literally she questions herself, right?
Like couldn't be happier, right?
Because getting your dreams is strange, but it seemed blah, blah.
(17:27):
The stage version, you're like, it's almost like a right, but then in the movie it waslike.
it she actually looked and seemed like she would like she had to stop because she didn'tactually know the answer.
Which again could be you know just Ariana doing an absolute stellar job could be thedirector directing that particular you know all the things put together but I think it was
(17:58):
it gives the people a little bit more of what they want.
I do have to note one more thing about this before we move on, because obviously we have alot to cover.
But I watched a video this morning where Ariana was about to film the part where she comesout during Couldn't Be Happier to give her speech.
know, John Chu was like, okay, we're going to be ready in like five, four.
And Ariana says, I think I'm going to come out singing la la, you know, like from Popular.
(18:23):
And he didn't even, like he was still counting and she just.
walked out and did it and they're like, oh wait, that's actually Glinda.
So I do think that there's a lot of understanding.
Like obviously Ariana has loved this character forever.
She's been championing this role in this movie.
And so I do think that some of these choices that she's making, like what better way toconvince the people that everything is good while singing the song that made everybody
(18:45):
feel good in the first film.
You know what I mean?
Like while nobody else was in that room with, with Elphaba and Glinda, that was, that'sthe song that people feel bubbly to.
No pun intended.
But.
So I think that's an interesting choice, you know, of these roles of like, how do youconvince other people you're happy?
You're bubbly, you're singing la la, you're happy, even though maybe underneath you reallyare having such a negative feel about everything.
(19:10):
Which takes us into, think, I'm trying to think of like, narratively, how do we go?
Cause like, there's so much happening, but I think the next thread that this connects tois, so you have these two people, these two very important people, they obviously love
each other.
Are they a little too in love with each other maybe?
Perhaps.
And then they meet again.
And usually they meet pretty much not until for good, you know, their story, or I guess Ishould say the fight in the Munchkin lands where they really meet next.
(19:37):
They have their fight in Munchkin land, but in this one, meet for wonderful.
And that was such a significant change.
As somebody who is a wicked purist, perhaps, did you like the addition of Ariana?
and Glinda to wonderful and that whole sequence that it kind of it that it built upon.
(20:01):
Ummm...
That's a no.
It's just different.
I wouldn't say that I didn't like it and I wouldn't say that I loved it.
um Just because again, like even the setup to that scene and then post scene, whathappens, like that changes a lot of things.
(20:26):
um
I did appreciate her...
I did appreciate what they were trying to do in the delivery of that song because itdoesn't make sense to me for Elphaba to walk into a room with the wizard and like not to
be brutal but like if you have a guy who's like aiming to kill you constantly and you'rein a room with him alone
(20:49):
You're not going there.
You're like, either, well, yeah, that or like, you're going one way or the other, right?
Like, he's either gonna come at you, you're gonna go at him, somebody's gonna die.
Like, you know, like, it just doesn't feel real to just kind of like casually talk my waythrough a scene and then have it be over.
(21:12):
So to have almost Glinda as a mediator um made the convincing part.
more real because I'm not gonna, if I despise someone, the last thing I'm gonna do islisten to a thing that comes out of their mouth.
But if you anchor that with my lifelong, not lifelong, but longtime best friend who Ihaven't seen in forever.
(21:39):
Now I'm emotionally captured.
There's more of uh an anchor, there's more of a weight on that than just the wizard.
what I like about the two scenes.
Because there's the scene where Elphaba arrives at Glinda's doorstep basically while she'sin a wedding dress, know, trying, getting ready for her wedding.
And basically, to me, it felt very much like the, I'm saying goodbye because I'm notmaking out with the next fight.
(22:06):
You know, like I'm gonna go and confront the wizard and I'm not making it out alive.
And so I wanted to see you one more time before that happened.
So to me, if they would have kept wonderful the way it was, it probably could have workedwith that first scene.
But I like because you're correct.
Who's going to convince Elphaba of anything?
Who's been the only person to convince her of anything this entire story?
It's been Glinda.
(22:27):
Once they earned each other's respect, there was nothing could really break that,including the fact that even though she didn't like that Glinda stage, she respected at
the end of Wicked, the first part.
And so I think that it makes sense that this song comes from Glinda in that way.
Also
(22:48):
Did you need the wizard at that point then?
Like, I guess that scene, what did that really do?
You got the monkeys, you needed to get the monkeys released.
You also need to discover the other things.
It almost was this moment, I think, it made me more sad because I was like, I know what'scoming and no amount of reconnection here is gonna really matter until we get to For Good
(23:09):
the song.
And so that hurt my soul a little bit.
Which is probably what they were aiming for.
correct.
Um, but throughout all of this, have two different other storylines.
have Elphaba and Fiyero, which we're gonna have to talk about.
What is their love?
Honestly, at this point, not that their, um, that their duet isn't good, but I think withsuch a heavy storyline on Elphaba and Glinda, this definitely felt a little, fell a little
(23:39):
flat for me.
Um, did you like, would you agree with that?
It wasn't quite.
I don't think that I ever liked Elphaba and Fiyero together.
And maybe that's just me.
What's that supposed to mean?
Jonathan Bailey should be for me.
(24:02):
I am not sure if it's just my inability to look past the actors at this point with theromance, romantic pieces of this.
Um, obviously the amount of queerness in this movie is a lot and it felt queer.
(24:24):
And so it didn't feel like when I see the stage version,
like okay like the chemistry the sexual the sensuality ah it just feels very strong and itdid not feel that way to me in the movie even with as long as your mine like it just not
(24:49):
that it wasn't performed well not that they didn't both sing great but it was like almosttoo soft ah
Like I didn't feel like they needed.
the characters didn't feel like they needed to be together.
Like the chemistry was not there for me.
just gonna read a text message that someone sent me after they saw it because I think itsums it up.
(25:13):
Jump scare was when the lesbian and the gay man got sexy together, forgot that was coming,it also felt unnatural.
Yeah.
And honestly, I'm not even sure if it is because of their sexuality.
just, I mean, I'm sure that plays a part because it just is.
some things you just can't act and you can't unact.
(25:35):
mean, we've seen folks.
played, gave, seen gay folks play straight folks.
We've seen straight folks play gay folks and like it almost never works.
oh
Yeah, it as someone who like doesn't even enjoy like steamy anything, ah it was it wasn'tenough for me to be interested in that part of the plot.
(26:03):
I don't know if you remember, but when we began this journey, which was with Wicked, you'dwent with me to Wicked all those years ago, I remember standing there, I think it was
after the show, and I said, I've never bought into Fiyero an Elphaba because there's justsomething about it that doesn't, the chemistry doesn't always click for me.
(26:23):
And I think what really happened with this film is that I'm wondering if it's, I want topreface this by saying anybody out there, Jonathan Bailey.
is fantastic.
did a really good job as Fiyero.
I think that the chemistry wasn't there, but part of me thinks that it was because hewasn't on set nearly enough because he's filming every other movie.
And so where Ariana and and Cynthia were like literally intertwining themselves atlunchtime, know, crossing their arms and tapping each other's nails like.
(26:53):
He was flying in, filming parts flying out, you know what I mean?
I feel like that does add to some of those pieces because you don't get to spend time.
soaking up the chemistry with each other to build that up.
Yeah, and honestly, again, because there was two movies and we got press tour one, presstour two, like press tour one, every person and their mother bought into Elphaba and
(27:19):
Glinda know, like Fiera was like an afterthought and again, continue to be anafterthought, not because he isn't great, but because I mean, I would be very curious to
see the.
statistics on who's going to see this movie.
And I can bet you that it is very heavily female oriented in relation to their friends,their female friends, um and or lovers.
(27:47):
But just like that connection, that connectivity is what the movie really, which it isvery much what it is about at the end of the day.
uh And really, Fiyero is just like a...
I mean, kind of a side piece.
uh
got a man to be a side piece instead of always a female playing a side piece.
(28:08):
like the dot the you know, the signature on the dotted line technically is them at quoteunquote the end It doesn't feel that way because really physically maybe that might be the
thing but what they're singing is not that so
So more storyline that we have to talk to before we get to all the other pieces is justthe Nessa storyline, I think is my favorite to discuss here.
(28:37):
So for those who have seen the stage production, obviously you know Nessa takes overMunchkinland, she basically essentially kidnaps Baq and keeps him hostage, and he
ultimately becomes, spoiler alert, the Tin Man because of her actions and then Elphabasaving him.
So.
Dude, they made Nessa ruthless in this one because that girl let Baq walk away thinking hehad his freedom, have his freedom, and then was like, nope, no munchkins get to leave
(29:10):
Munchkinland without my permission and I am not giving any of you permission.
I was like, in that moment, I think I was like, oh no, this bitch needs a house dropped onher ASAP, which sounds mean, but I was like, oh, guys actually made her ruthless.
which probably was a better storyline for her because she was actually one of thevillainous people in this story.
(29:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think it very much tracks for what she was.
I think we vilified her very early in movie one, ah more than the stage production does.
And so it didn't feel hard in movie two to be like, oh, you're gross.
(29:53):
um But then from another angle,
I just can't even fathom.
Again, to be in her shoes.
Ayo.
have, you you go off to school, your sister who wasn't supposed to come along comes alongand now she basically is renowned.
(30:16):
for not good reasons.
Or much so that your dad dies, who was the only person who gave a shit about you.
And then the guy that you've been crushing on forever is actually like, I'm in love withsomeone else and I always have been, and you're the worst.
True.
mean, yeah, I mean she does get the short end of the stick uh I think that they I thinkthey definitely played her up being more villainous with with that decision.
(30:43):
I think that was a very obvious intention to be like We don't feel so bad for her.
But also she's also a victim of the system.
You know what mean?
So I feel like that's the part of this That this play or the show this movie that reallyis interesting is that everybody is a victim of the system
At least all the people that you care about.
(31:04):
Nobody is free from the shackles that hold them in, which really does carry on through theend of the show.
With that being said...
We do have to get to the end of the show.
So just to speed it along people.
ah Obviously we come in contact with the original Wizard of Oz story.
(31:24):
Eventually we see Dorothy set down the yellow brick road, ultimately leading to thereunion of Elphaba and Glinda to deliver the powerful uh for good that made nobody here
cry.
Nobody cried.
There was no tears.
Not a single tear.
Um.
(31:45):
But it ultimately ends with Elphaba dying, moving on with her life.
ah
But they did make a change at the end.
Do we want to talk about the end or do we want to leave that for people to find out asthey watch it?
I mean, if they've listened this far.
That's true.
Okay, so part of the storyline that goes through here is there's another dimension thatpeople are walking into, which is like a desert-esque, there's nothing there, but it's
(32:15):
where Elphaba goes.
um I guess first off, let's back up.
Let's talk about the villain of the story.
Do you feel like the film changed that?
Because why did I get the fact that I felt like Madame Morrible was pulling all of thestrings?
and that the wizard was just kind of like a doofus.
Did you feel that at all in this film?
(32:37):
Yeah, I mean, I think...
His presence was very slim, which it is anyway, but...
There was definitely some active work to make sure that we knew that Madame Morrible wasexactly who she was, uh which is running the show.
(32:59):
ah Between the scene of, I can't remember where they are, but there's, you know, maybe heroffice where there's flyers everywhere, all every variation that she has printed on the
witch.
ah
And it's just like her.
villainry, if that's even a word, um becomes very, very clear so that then when we look atthe wizard we're kind of like, well he's just kind of here.
(33:30):
Yeah.
Um, even with the animals hidden away, it was just kind of like, all we get is, you know,it's not what you think.
So we really don't get any type of, I mean, aside from him saying that people, you know,speaking out.
But we still that we know that Madame Morrible was also at the head of that.
(33:52):
So there's no like.
Particular evil doing that.
I don't see them both.
next to each other for, but yeah, it felt, it was pretty heavy.
And it really calls into question, why does he get to fly away, but that Madame Morriblegoes into a jail cell?
(34:15):
You know I mean?
Because it wasn't his actions just as bad.
And I feel like in the stage show, they made it seem like he was very much still in chargeof it all.
And this one very much felt like that, well, you were just the ditzy old man, so fly away,go have a good life, but we'll put the real villain in jail.
So I thought that was an interesting.
maybe change, maybe it's just a different interpretation, maybe that's how it is in thestage production and I just don't remember, but I feel like that was very distinct for
(34:41):
Wicked for Good and just something worth noting.
uh And obviously, like we said, Glinda takes over, she ends up building a better society,and Elphaba goes on her way with the scarecrow Jonathan Bailey.
The end, end of the story, no.
uh But with this show,
(35:03):
The last film we talked about, there was a clear standout performance, acting, singingwise, that we truly loved.
Are you still riding a high with Cynthia as Elphie or do you feel like there's somebodyelse from the show for part two that really kind of took the crown?
That snatched the broomstick, so to speak.
(35:24):
Wearing the witch's hats.
Uh, I think that act two is naturally act acting heavy on Glinda.
Um, I also just cause I don't think even though maybe we do see them equally, but there'smore development that has to happen.
(35:45):
Like Elphaba character wise stays pretty consistent.
Like we already know what she's about and like she stays that way the entire time.
through Act 2, whereas Glinda starts Act 2 one way, but then ends Act 2 different.
(36:06):
Like, she has the most growth opportunity, and I think that was on full display for themovie as well.
I think that's very much present in the stage production too, or even let's say the twoparts of the movie.
Elphaba had the growth circle at the beginning and that is what just to be almost Glindastory.
You know what I mean?
Like there's two very distinct pieces here and it's not two friends growing, but one islike growing to meet the challenge and one is growing from the challenge.
(36:35):
And that is the two distinct pieces of Wicked and why this story works so well.
So we're talking about music.
Obviously all the songs we know from part two or act two are there.
I will just say mad props to Cynthia for no good deed.
That blew me out of the water.
And I don't know if you remember, but I leaned over to you and said, what the fu...
(36:57):
Like I was so shocked by her performance in that song.
And also for good.
Okay, people, I'm going to admit it.
I did ball like a baby.
So the joke saw the, you I cry like a baby.
It is really good.
Did you, what standout piece did you have from the classic Wicked songs of Act Two orWicked for Good?
(37:18):
Um.
I mean those two songs as well.
Those really are the pieces of Act Two.
Yeah, I mean, and I think again, Act One is so heavy on everything in regards to the showum and musically.
So Act Two only really has like a tiny, tiny bit of, I hate to say good music, but thebops, know, like the ones that people will go and sing for the rest of forever.
(37:50):
um
No Good Deed will now be probably the anthem just as Defying Gravity, the run in DefyingGravity was the anthem for what, a year?
People doing her runs and trills.
And now I think No Good Deed equally is hard, if not more, um because you're just in thebelt the whole time.
(38:12):
But yeah, and to think that she's, every time, like as we were watching it, I'm just like,and she was flying.
And she was midair and she is, know, like so many people can be like, I'm singing on arecord or I'm singing standing or I'm singing sitting, but like she's freaking in the air.
(38:36):
Um, that's absurd.
Uh, I, I, I, just goes to tell you, and I'm sure like at the start of this, they probablycouldn't do that.
So it just tells me how much work they had to put in.
and how much dedication that they had to put in because damn, you won't catch me flyingaround singing that song, you know, however high up in the air.
(39:03):
even stand in place in single song, what are you talking about?
You have to do flips in the air?
Also that.
Also that.
Catch me laying on the ground on my back, maybe singing this song.
But that does lead us to the fact that there are two original songs, uh No Place LikeHome, which was partially written in collaboration with Cynthia Erivo, and then The Girl
(39:25):
in the Bubble.
You were not a fan of these songs.
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure as I listen to them, they'll grow on me as most things do.
I understand why they were there.
I appreciate the character growth and development that they're trying to tell.
And I enjoyed getting the additional time with the characters.
(39:47):
I just don't know that the lyrics specifically felt.
Neither the lyrics or the musicality of the songs were something that
I felt I would remember.
I think that what is always missing from Act 2 is the fact that there is not an energysong, if that makes any sense.
(40:07):
I don't know if that's right term, but like there's not a song that's like, like thatcaptures like an energetic moment other than like no good deed.
All the songs are kind of slow.
They're kind of mournful.
They're kind of sad.
They're kind of, and so to me, you added two more songs that were mournful and sad, whichagain, we're speaking to the tone of the film.
get that it's a little bit darker, but why isn't there like,
(40:30):
Why isn't Elphaba singing about being free or what the war has done to her?
I get that's kind of what's going on here, but I don't know.
I feel like the energy was off for those two ones.
You didn't need two more slow songs.
You needed something that had a little bit, that had the defying gravity moment orpopular, something that people are gonna remember, because Act 2 doesn't have as many uh
(40:54):
memorable songs.
And I think that's...
what happens with these two songs is that it drags it down a little bit more and adds alittle bit of pacing issues that I think could have been solved in a different way.
Like the pacing was a little slow.
Yeah, and I get like, because both of these were in tandem with the scenes that they kindof added, right?
(41:15):
Because they had to.
It makes sense for what they were.
But again, even even with the
songs that are upbeat like there there are songs in act two that are upbeat but they'rejust not like the power they're not powerful right we get like couldn't be happier that's
(41:38):
technically upbeat march of the witch hunters technically upbeat when you talk about tempoand you talk about the way that the song moves but the lyrical piece of them are
not happy.
Which again, you said it's not supposed to be really the only happy piece that we get areas long as your mine which I don't know if you call that happy or just sensual.
(42:04):
Um, and for good, happy and sad at the same time.
But yeah.
So obviously before we close, we need to talk about costumes because the last film wonbest costumes thanks to Paul Tazewell who also had a good year for Death Becomes Her.
(42:27):
It was a real Paul Tazewell year.
What did you think of the costumes this time around?
Did anything stand out about them?
I guess I should say, the one in the costume that really stood out to me, becauseElphaba's very
wearing a lot of black, Ness is wearing a lot of black, there's a lot of pink going on,but Boq's costume once he went to being the Tin Man was really, really good.
(42:55):
Yeah, and it was the one thing that I think nobody knew what it was going to be, right?
Like I would say, even though they are, I'm sure different variations of very similarcostumes, like you can almost always predict what Elphaba is going to be wearing, um,
aside from her scene with, um, Fiyero.
(43:16):
I was like, uh, I don't know what's happening.
Um, and then Glinda like always pretty in pink, basically.
Yes.
but yeah, those one-offs like NASA, I wasn't sure.
Uh, Boq Um, and then yeah, like just, and, Morrible too, like you just don't, you weren'tsure also because, um, well, I'm trying to think Morrible's costume is very unique in the
(43:49):
stage version and I don't think it really changes.
Um.
but in this she did have personality in her costume.
So it was very interesting to see the interpretation, of course, from stage to movie, butalso from act one to act two, movie one to movie two.
Something I do wanna just address about the costumes is that um Glinda does go through ajourney.
(44:16):
So obviously when we first meet here in Wicked, she's in pink.
She wears a lot of pink, obviously through the show.
But in this one, as you notice, she wore a lot more blue.
And so this is um a thread that um Valkyries, but Elfie on X was talking about.
So...
um
(44:36):
They noted that uh Glinda, I'll just read it.
Paul talks about how Elphaba and Glinda's colors undermine what we traditionally think iswicked, black, and good pink.
Cutting Room Floor interviews with him talks about the artificial perfection of pink, the1950s archetype of the housewife, and using the era of Dior as inspiration for Glinda's
(44:57):
looks, which you can definitely see as the story progresses.
how the costume design was informed by his experience as a black gay man and that Wickedis about anyone who is being judged before speaking.
So then if we go down a little bit, they say, in my opinion, think Glinda wears the bluepurple dress because it's her attempt to assert control over her choices because her pink
(45:18):
outfits have been co-opted by the wizard in Madame Morrible into a propaganda machine.
She's in pink at the start during Everyday More Wicked and she's peak Glinda the Good andlater when the pink slip,
with the pink slip of her wedding dress when she's helping the wizard convince Alva aboutto join him.
But then she's in the blue dress when she's at her most rebellious, miserable point inwhere she's actually actively against Madame Morrible and the wizard, but also when she's
(45:42):
experienced the most change in her storyline.
So I think that it is so interesting because I don't think I noticed it at first, but whenI read that, said that makes a lot of sense because the moment that she starts to really
change, the dress goes to that bluey purpley pink color, and then it's more towards theblue.
as that scene goes on, as she's going to Elphaba to meet her at the castle, which I justthought was such a cool interpretation.
(46:08):
And shout out again to this individual who pointed out, because that's the kind of journeythat I love about costuming and why Paul Tazewell probably deserves best costume yet
again.
That is so cool.
Yeah, yeah, well, and yeah, so much can be said with clothing and colors, especially whenpeople have staple colors or what they're expected to wear.
(46:34):
I did notice that differential towards maybe not so much in the middle of the For Good butum when you're going from the glitzy, glammy pink.
And I think there was the scene
where she is about to go right out to Elphaba.
(46:56):
And they actually spotlight her picking up a black robe, or maybe it's dark blue, I can'tremember, and the boots, and just things that you wouldn't traditionally see her wear.
And it was an active choice to be zoned in on that.
So I'm sure, because then when she's actively making her first kind of...
(47:20):
visually apparent descent from the wizard and Madame Morrible she is literally wearing adifferent color than what we might have seen previously.
And not just that, and people can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure she'swearing Elphaba's boots from Act One, which is an absolute, like defying the wizard and
(47:46):
accepting this person fully.
Which like, what a great moment.
Yeah, that was also a very interesting.
I would love to be in conversation with them on that choice.
what, I mean, we can all have our interpretations, right?
But I'm curious.
how, choice that was and what they felt it was supposed to embody because it, like you're,you're physically stepping into somebody else's shoes.
(48:15):
So what does that mean or what did they want it to mean?
You hear that Paul, if you're around and you're listening to this, let us know.
We'd love to talk to you.
That being said, before we wrap up, RJ is wicked for good, good enough and good enough foryou to see it again.
(48:35):
ah Well, definitely.
would see it again just because there's, again, this movie's massive.
uh There's so much happening.
There's things that I'm sure I didn't even catch because in order to truly like, whetheryou're looking at the costumes or listening to the music or just the sheer orchestration
also throughout the entire film, like it's all new.
(48:59):
And this felt further away from the stage version than act one or than part one did.
uh
Musically so that I was kind of like almost thrown off because I'm trying to figure outwhich song is going where and so visually Just for visuals alone.
I would go And see it one to two more times just to catch all of the things that I didn'tcatch the first time um So in short, that's a hard yes
(49:28):
And as somebody who was already seeing it multiple times this week, it's also a yes.
I will also be seeing it again, because I do think that what this is, and I think this issomething to another podcast at another time.
ah But I think that what this has begun has shown people that musicals can also bephenomenons.
(49:51):
And so I...
will obviously support this, but I think that it does really well because I think that thepeople who made this film really loved it.
And you can see the love poured into it.
So it's a definite yes for me to see this again.
I need to see it a couple more times to just truly appreciate it.
And just to find out if maybe we also are feeling wicked.
And with that, we have concluded our journey into Oz.
(50:14):
But stay tuned for future episodes of the Box Seat Babes podcast.
Thank you again for joining us on our Box Seats Until next curtain call.
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