August 19, 2025 • 22 mins
We explore achievement as the third component of our Model of Leadership and Service, discussing how to foster confidence, build competence, and set appropriate goals for children who may identify more with failure than success.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back, everyone and thank you for
joining us today as we movethrough the next part of our
Model of Leadership and ServiceAchievement.
I'm joined again today byMichelle Meichetter, our Chief
Program Officer.
Hello.
Suzanne Wright, the VP ofTraining and Intervention.
Hello.
And Mike Wilhelm, our SeniorChaplain, howdy.
Before we get into it, let'sstart with our question of the
(00:21):
day.
So you guys ready for today'sintellectually stimulating
question?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
You bet.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I can feel the excitement All right.
So today's question is whatwould you say is your greatest
non-work, non-family achievement?
What is something cool or funyou've accomplished and want to
brag a little bit about?
For me, the thing that I wouldsay is I completed a Ragnar race
, and a Ragnar race is a 24-hourrelay race where you run three
(00:50):
miles, five miles and eightmiles and you have a team of
other people running the racetoo.
It was the most grueling,horrible, amazing experience I
think I've ever done, and Idon't ever want to do another
one, but it was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I guess mine would have to be a half marathon that
I ran.
That's been like six years ago,but I did complete it and I got
the shirt, so that wassomething.
And then I have also done goatyoga, which I highly recommend.
And I've also done aerial yoga.
So I wouldn't say Iaccomplished those things, but I
did try those things so I wouldrecommend those highly to
(01:24):
everyone accomplished thosethings, but I did try those
things, so I would recommendthose highly to everyone.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
What's aero yoga, aerial, oh?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
aerial, yes, where you have silks that hang from
the ceiling and you do yoga withthem.
Wow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Do they have aerial goat yoga?
Speaker 4 (01:36):
They should.
Is there video evidence of thataccomplishment?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
There's not video.
No, top that, suzanne.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Yeah Well, I was going to say that my
accomplishment is much moresedentary.
But I have wanted for years toknow how to crochet, but I was
never very good at it.
And just in the last year Ilearned how to crochet a granny
square, which changed the game,and now I feel like I can
confidently say yes, I crochet.
(02:04):
So that you know, that's just asmall goal, but it took me
years to be able to feelconfident in accomplishing that.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Wow yeah, I have not been able to do that, but you
give me hope that maybe one dayI could Well, our family used to
show cattle, so I'm really kindof breaking the rule.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
You said a non-family achievement, but the best I
could think of is we used toshow cattle and we didn't do cow
yoga but we did cow showing andwe had the Grand Champion Steer
at Denver at the NationalWestern and the Grand Champion
Steer at Louisville at the NorthAmerican International
Livestock Exposition.
(02:45):
So we did cow showing.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So that was really the cows accomplished next.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
You've got to make the cows show them right.
You've got to get those tails,just right.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
They did the work, we received the glory.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
All right, so let's continue talking about our model
of leadership and service, andso far we've talked about safety
and belonging, which for me arefairly easy to define and
understand, but for some reasonthis seems a little bit more
abstract.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
How would you guys define achievement?
I think about it as exertingeffort towards something that
you want to complete oraccomplish a goal, so taking
steps to move in that directionof accomplishing a goal.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So if someone doesn't have achievement, what would
achievement struggles look like?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I think you know it looks like not having much
excitement or enthusiasm orconfidence in yourself, maybe
feeling like not as energeticabout, you know, going to school
or going to an event or any ofthose kinds of things, if you
lack that feeling that you'd beable to meet a goal or achieve
something in it.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I think if you don't feel like you're able to achieve
, you're less likely to attemptyes.
So if I'm worried that I, forexample, could not run a half
marathon, then I would think whybother, why try?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, so a kid being withdrawn could be a sign of a
lack of achievement.
True.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, true.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And I wonder too sometimes the kid that doesn't
seem to be withdrawn and indespair.
But if there could be a kidthat's edgy— and a little
thin-skinned and maybe sets offand rage easy, if there's not
some shame around a lack ofachievement and that makes for
(04:34):
some touchiness and beinginsecure in some settings, do
you think sometimes some of thatkind of acting out could be
from lack of achievement?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, and I think probably those things go hand in
hand, right, like lack ofconfidence in not achieving and
then not achieving not helpingyou build confidence that you
can do something else, so thennot even trying, not even
wanting to attempt, and so youcan see a lot of behaviors
around trying to avoid evenbeing put in a position to
attempt something.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
There was a comedian a few years ago that told you
know a funny story about a youngman who had to be in a spelling
bee at school and he knew hewasn't going to do very well, so
he misspelled the first wordright off the bat so he could
just sit down and check out forthe rest of the spelling bee.
So because he lacked a sense ofachievement in that area, he
(05:23):
wasn't even willing to try.
He had, you know, theprediction that he would fail
anyway.
Yep.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You know and I think that makes me think my own
daughter has a lot of socialanxiety about getting up in
front of a group and she alsoqualified for spelling bee, and
this was when she was inelementary school and she did
not want to do it and we wentback and forth and back and
forth about it.
It will be okay, this is whyyou can do it, all those kinds
of of things.
And so she did the exact samething.
She got up on the stage and shemisspelled I won't say if it
was purposeful or not the veryfirst word and then got to sit
(05:52):
down, but the achievement washer actually getting up on the
stage, and so sometimes I thinkwe confuse winning with
achievement, and I thinkachievement can be very small
steps that you take towardsthings, and so maybe I take back
my definition of what that is.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I think that's really good insight, though, because
in our culture, achievementequates with winning correct
it's who made the highest gradeor who came across the finish
line first, or who shoved thebest cow, but I mean, we don't
always define small successes asachievement.
(06:31):
But you know, when we areworking with our kids here on
campus, we are looking at verysmall steps towards the right
direction and definitelyclaiming those as achievement.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, yeah, and I think the same thing for us as
adults.
Right, there's different,different days, different times
in our lives when we can dobetter than other days, and some
days, just showing up is anachievement, agreed.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So what happens if a kid identifies more with failure
than success?
What can we do to change thattemplate?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I think that's really hard when you have not had much
success, do not have muchconfidence to start something
new or try something new.
And it is really nice thatwe're lucky here.
We have a lot of activitiesthat maybe kids have never been
exposed to, so they have nonegative or positive feelings
about it, and so it's a littleeasier maybe to enter into it
(07:22):
because you're not alreadycarrying around this belief that
you can't do it or it'ssomething that you won't be
successful at, and so I thinkexposure to different things,
not just the things over andover again that you're not good
at.
So sometimes school is not abig success, but you can find
other avenues that help.
You know do better in that area.
so then it makes you feel likemaybe I could do better in
(07:43):
school and so, and I guess foradults too, I think it's you
know, but having the confidenceeven to try takes a lot of adult
support and encouragement andreassurance and unconditional
acceptance, regardless of howyou actually do.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I think sometimes our residents are afraid to try new
things you know they don't haveany experience with that but
also they don't want to fail infront of their peers.
Right, and that adult supportyou mentioned is so important.
I can remember my own daughterhere on campus was terrified to
be in a kayak, but the man incharge of that activity gave a
(08:24):
safety briefing, you know,talked in detail, you know, led
the children step by step bystep through what would happen
and what to expect and alsoparticipated with them and that
made the difference.
And you know, sometimes asadults we don't think that kids
are listening or attending, butshe came home and repeated that
(08:45):
entire safety briefing to me indetail.
you know, and I've shared thatwith that staff member, she was
paying attention.
It was important.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Don't you think?
For those same reasons, our ELPprogram out here is really
plays an important role withachievement.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
It does and you might explain what our ELP program is
.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, experiential learning program.
Where one, yeah, experientiallearning program where one.
The kids are in a setting wherethey can develop some competency
with projects, robotics,computers, woodworking.
They're in a smaller group.
They're not in a large groupwhere there's so much fear of
(09:33):
exposure and incompetency sothey could try new things.
And then they're with justwonderful kid whisperer mentors
that are wise and gentle and forsometimes the primary
caregivers to get trying to pushthe kid out of the nest to try
new things.
Sometimes that can just getinto a stuck point.
But for that mentor there tocome alongside a fresh voice
(09:53):
gives the kids some space to trynew things and it seems like
for all those reasons it reallyworks and kids come to life down
there, don't you think?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
But that makes me think againabout even as adults and staff.
I can remember a staff memberthat had to do a training and
got very, very unhinged rightbefore the training, thinking
that she wasn't going to be ableto do it, and she panicked and
said I don't think I can do this.
And I said that's okay, youdon't have to do it, somebody
else can do it, it doesn't haveto be you.
(10:21):
And so for that day she optedout, but then, because that was
okay and we moved on, the nexttime she was able to get up and
do it and then she was able todo it, you know, several times
very easily after that.
But it's also thatunconditional acceptance of it's
okay if you can't do it today,but we're going to keep trying
to help you get to that point.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
That's actually a really good segue to my next
question.
So if you set a goal for achild and you realize that they
can't meet that goal, is it okayto reset that goal?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
realize that they can't meet that goal, is it okay
to reset that goal?
You know I really hate theadage never quit.
I think it's really importantto know when it's time to quit,
and I wish I would have beentaught that when I was younger
that there are times, there aresituations, there are
relationships, there are thingsthat it's okay to recalibrate
and say you know what?
This isn't what I thought itwas going to be and this is not
what.
Something I need to do and so Idefinitely think that's
(11:10):
something we need to help teachis that there are times you need
to reassess the situation andsee if it's something that
you're going to be successful inor not, because it's not always
just try harder, right?
I think we get taught that ifyou just try harder, there's
some sometimes that's not thecase.
You can try as hard as you want, it's not going to work out the
way you want it to.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I think it also matters if you, the adult, set
that goal for a child or if thechild had any input on that goal
Right.
And so when we talk about thosegoals, it's really vital to get
the child's perspective andtheir input so that they have
buy-in and they also areinvested in that goal, and then,
(11:50):
if that goal seems out of reach, you reassess.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Great story on goals.
We had a boy here that wasabout as big around as my index
finger when he came and not veryathletic and he went out for
wrestling and he lost everymatch Right for maybe two years.
I can't remember what hisrecord was, but then he won a
(12:18):
match and so he was one andwhatever right.
And at our devotional thatWednesday he shared his praise
for the week is that he won amatch and he said you know, I
told coach I'm going to winstate.
And he said I told coach I'mgoing to win state.
And he said you know, coachtold me I need to have a more
(12:41):
realistic goal.
And I thought that and I couldjust imagine Coach Jones being
very kind and helping himthrough that, mentoring, through
that.
But in the big picture thisparticular boy did develop
confidence through the wrestlingprogram.
He didn't have a great recordbut he won some and became the
athletics in his particular case, became a place where he did
(13:05):
achieve and it helped give him alot of confidence throughout.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You know, just going on beyond Boys Ranch, so it's
really us, as the adults,raising and lowering the bar,
what the kid can actuallyachieve.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Well, I think you raise and lower that bar as it's
appropriate.
So you know, my guess would bein that scenario that that Coach
Jones would have told him,rather than focus on state,
let's work on district Right,and so that so that those goals
build towards the overall goalRight Sometimes we do set the
bar too high and it'sunrealistic and so that those
goals build towards the overallgoal right.
Sometimes we do set the bar toohigh and it's unrealistic, and
(13:41):
so we need to reevaluate thatright.
You don't tell a child who'sfailing.
Your goal is to make straightA's.
That's not reasonable, right,and so lowering the bar has a
negative connotation.
But maybe we just put that barin a more reasonable place and
then we can always raise it asit's appropriate, I think that's
hard too, especially when youhave someone who's motivated and
(14:04):
says you know, I want to winstate.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
We don't want to, you know, knock them down by saying
I don't think that's realisticfor you.
You need to have something morerealistic.
But it is helpful to have thatkind of, I think, guidance
because you can really, you know, have the opposite effect if
you set your goals too high,that you're not going to reach
them, and so you need somebuffering from the adults that
have a little bit more hopefullyreasonable view.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
So it's kind of interesting Sometimes when I see
kids start to have achievementin an area, they also sometimes
will struggle or they might bedisobedient or something like
that and the caregiver is goingto might be tempted to take away
that area where they are beingsuccessful as a consequence, to
try and get them to comply.
Do you feel like that's a goodstrategy?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, I think this goes so against the way probably
all of us were raised and allof us were taught that you
remove this as a punishment sothat you can try to get better
behavior.
And I just think what we knowis that when you're doing well
in one area, that confidence,that achievement can carry over
to other areas.
And so when you're trying tohelp someone do better, removing
(15:05):
something they're good atdoesn't often help any of the
situation at all, and then youtake away that one area of
confidence for them.
That makes it more difficultfor them to do well in the area
you're wanting them to do wellin.
It's really more about buildingon that rather than taking it
away.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So it kind of backfires a lot of times.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, I love this question because, like Michelle
said, it seems like the rightanswer to this is so
counterintuitive.
It goes against our instincts,it goes against our raising.
But I was just in my Biblereading this morning when Paul's
talking to a particular churchat Corinth.
He's trying to help themthrough some difficult things
and sounds like they were offthe rails in some regards.
(15:50):
But then he makes thiswonderful, wonderful point.
He says that his authority isfor building a podcast and say
but yeah, whenever you're at thepoint of contact with the child
(16:24):
, trying to make decisions andyou're stuck in a rut, it can be
difficult to figure out how tonavigate this, can't it?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, and then that makes me think too the same way
I'm with adults again is like ifyou have someone who's
struggling and you told them youknow what?
We're not going to let you dothe things that you're good at
right now, you're only going todo the things that you're
struggling in.
We would never do that to theadult, but that makes sense to
us, for children, for somereason, and so I always think
when you flip it that way, thenit doesn't.
(16:51):
It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
I think, time we're frustrated with a child, that we
tend to exert more control inan effort to get compliance.
But when we look underneaththat, it's usually driven by
fear, our fear right that thatchild is going to fail in some
way or that we are not beingsuccessful as parents.
You know, but a lot of timesthat motivation to exert more
(17:17):
control is really more about usthan it is about them.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I also wonder what happens when you take everything
away, like I've heard it say.
You know, freedom is justanother word for having nothing
left to lose, right?
And if we take everything awayand they have nothing good going
on, then they do whatever theywant, right, because they have
that freedom to do that at thatpoint.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Well, and they've lost motivation.
Yeah Again, if I can't do theone thing that I'm good at, I'm
defeated right, and I don't haveany sense of achievement.
And so why try?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And that kind of technique or mentality does lead
to you just have to keep doingmore and more and more, so you
have to take doing more and moreand more, so you have to take
this away, take that away, andthen pretty soon there's nothing
left to take away, which, if itworked, you wouldn't have to
get to that point, right?
But that's what happens.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
So, when it comes to achievement, I've heard it said
that competence leads toachievement.
If so, what are some ways thatwe can help develop competence
in children?
Speaker 4 (18:16):
I think you start out by determining what are they
already good at?
What you know every child hasinterests.
Every child has something thatthey do well and you focus on
those small things and buildthem into larger things and with
some children you have to looka little harder to find out what
(18:37):
is that interest or what isthat competence right?
So it may be that you know youdid a great job of picking your
clothes up and putting them inthe laundry hamper, or you know
the way you helped me withdinner tonight was really great.
Thank you so much.
You had a good attitude whenyou did that.
You know you're focusing on thesmaller things and you build
(19:00):
towards the larger things.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, which makes me think about there needs to be an
attuned adult who notices thosethings right, and so a lot of
times our kids aren't able totell you what their strengths
are or maybe even what they like, and it takes those caring
adults in the environment to beable to point those things out
for them until they can see itthemselves sure is helpful if
there is a community in place, achild and if, if a caregiver is
(19:28):
stuck and pretty isolated, thisall becomes pretty difficult,
doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
but if for a charismatic adult that comes
along and notices and is helpfuland invites kids into something
new, it seems like that, thatcan really open things up and
free things up.
I'm thinking of it happens outhere all the time.
I'm thinking about oneparticular case where we had a
boy this was 10, 15 years agohad a boy come in from out of
(19:56):
state and he shows up for one.
We're doing a prayer ridetonight with a group and he came
out for one of those and he hadon an NBA tank top and some
kind of tennis shoes and wasn'tdressed for horses and he was so
frightened and his eyes were asbig as saucers and he went on
(20:20):
that ride and it was scary tohim.
But there was a charismatic,caring adult on that ride that
noticed him, talked him throughit and that became point of
competency for this particularyoung man.
In just a few weeks he'sworking at the horse barn and to
(20:40):
this day now he's a ranch handcowboy and has great competency
in this.
But the change that happened inhim is eyes that were as big as
sausage, where you could seethe fear on his face.
He had this confidence and thispeace once he had this place
where he had achievement, thisisland of competency here at
Boys Ranch.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
I think we referenced this when we talked about
belonging, but it's helpful tobuild an intentional community
for your child to, you know, tocreate opportunities for them to
interact with other adults whomyou trust, whom they can
develop trust with right, and sothat might be an aunt or a
(21:21):
grandparent or a teacher,someone at church or who is
involved in any other group thatyou participate in.
But I always wanted my childrento have connections with other
adults so that if there wassomething they felt they could
not share with me, they had acommunity of adults around them
(21:44):
to share and support them.
And those are the same adultswho can help your child achieve,
who can point out.
Here are some talents, I see,or skills that you have, or you
did this very well and I thinkthat's part of it.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Well, thank you all for joining us today.
I hope you feel like you'veachieved some sort of alignment
listening to us and alwaysremember you might have to loan
out your frontal lobe today.
Just make sure you remember toget them back.
Welcome back, everyone and thank you for
joining us today as we movethrough the next part of our
Model of Leadership and ServiceAchievement.
I'm joined again today byMichelle Meichetter, our Chief
Program Officer.
Hello.
Suzanne Wright, the VP ofTraining and Intervention.
Hello.
And Mike Wilhelm, our SeniorChaplain, howdy.
Before we get into it, let'sstart with our question of the
(00:21):
day.
So you guys ready for today'sintellectually stimulating
question?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
You bet.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I can feel the excitement All right.
So today's question is whatwould you say is your greatest
non-work, non-family achievement?
What is something cool or funyou've accomplished and want to
brag a little bit about?
For me, the thing that I wouldsay is I completed a Ragnar race
, and a Ragnar race is a 24-hourrelay race where you run three
(00:50):
miles, five miles and eightmiles and you have a team of
other people running the racetoo.
It was the most grueling,horrible, amazing experience I
think I've ever done, and Idon't ever want to do another
one, but it was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I guess mine would have to be a half marathon that
I ran.
That's been like six years ago,but I did complete it and I got
the shirt, so that wassomething.
And then I have also done goatyoga, which I highly recommend.
And I've also done aerial yoga.
So I wouldn't say Iaccomplished those things, but I
did try those things so I wouldrecommend those highly to
(01:24):
everyone accomplished thosethings, but I did try those
things, so I would recommendthose highly to everyone.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
What's aero yoga, aerial, oh?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
aerial, yes, where you have silks that hang from
the ceiling and you do yoga withthem.
Wow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Do they have aerial goat yoga?
Speaker 4 (01:36):
They should.
Is there video evidence of thataccomplishment?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
There's not video.
No, top that, suzanne.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Yeah Well, I was going to say that my
accomplishment is much moresedentary.
But I have wanted for years toknow how to crochet, but I was
never very good at it.
And just in the last year Ilearned how to crochet a granny
square, which changed the game,and now I feel like I can
confidently say yes, I crochet.
(02:04):
So that you know, that's just asmall goal, but it took me
years to be able to feelconfident in accomplishing that.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Wow yeah, I have not been able to do that, but you
give me hope that maybe one dayI could Well, our family used to
show cattle, so I'm really kindof breaking the rule.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
You said a non-family achievement, but the best I
could think of is we used toshow cattle and we didn't do cow
yoga but we did cow showing andwe had the Grand Champion Steer
at Denver at the NationalWestern and the Grand Champion
Steer at Louisville at the NorthAmerican International
Livestock Exposition.
(02:45):
So we did cow showing.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So that was really the cows accomplished next.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
You've got to make the cows show them right.
You've got to get those tails,just right.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
They did the work, we received the glory.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
All right, so let's continue talking about our model
of leadership and service, andso far we've talked about safety
and belonging, which for me arefairly easy to define and
understand, but for some reasonthis seems a little bit more
abstract.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
How would you guys define achievement?
I think about it as exertingeffort towards something that
you want to complete oraccomplish a goal, so taking
steps to move in that directionof accomplishing a goal.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So if someone doesn't have achievement, what would
achievement struggles look like?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I think you know it looks like not having much
excitement or enthusiasm orconfidence in yourself, maybe
feeling like not as energeticabout, you know, going to school
or going to an event or any ofthose kinds of things, if you
lack that feeling that you'd beable to meet a goal or achieve
something in it.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I think if you don't feel like you're able to achieve
, you're less likely to attemptyes.
So if I'm worried that I, forexample, could not run a half
marathon, then I would think whybother, why try?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, so a kid being withdrawn could be a sign of a
lack of achievement.
True.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, true.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And I wonder too sometimes the kid that doesn't
seem to be withdrawn and indespair.
But if there could be a kidthat's edgy— and a little
thin-skinned and maybe sets offand rage easy, if there's not
some shame around a lack ofachievement and that makes for
(04:34):
some touchiness and beinginsecure in some settings, do
you think sometimes some of thatkind of acting out could be
from lack of achievement?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, and I think probably those things go hand in
hand, right, like lack ofconfidence in not achieving and
then not achieving not helpingyou build confidence that you
can do something else, so thennot even trying, not even
wanting to attempt, and so youcan see a lot of behaviors
around trying to avoid evenbeing put in a position to
attempt something.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
There was a comedian a few years ago that told you
know a funny story about a youngman who had to be in a spelling
bee at school and he knew hewasn't going to do very well, so
he misspelled the first wordright off the bat so he could
just sit down and check out forthe rest of the spelling bee.
So because he lacked a sense ofachievement in that area, he
(05:23):
wasn't even willing to try.
He had, you know, theprediction that he would fail
anyway.
Yep.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You know and I think that makes me think my own
daughter has a lot of socialanxiety about getting up in
front of a group and she alsoqualified for spelling bee, and
this was when she was inelementary school and she did
not want to do it and we wentback and forth and back and
forth about it.
It will be okay, this is whyyou can do it, all those kinds
of of things.
And so she did the exact samething.
She got up on the stage and shemisspelled I won't say if it
was purposeful or not the veryfirst word and then got to sit
(05:52):
down, but the achievement washer actually getting up on the
stage, and so sometimes I thinkwe confuse winning with
achievement, and I thinkachievement can be very small
steps that you take towardsthings, and so maybe I take back
my definition of what that is.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I think that's really good insight, though, because
in our culture, achievementequates with winning correct
it's who made the highest gradeor who came across the finish
line first, or who shoved thebest cow, but I mean, we don't
always define small successes asachievement.
(06:31):
But you know, when we areworking with our kids here on
campus, we are looking at verysmall steps towards the right
direction and definitelyclaiming those as achievement.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, yeah, and I think the same thing for us as
adults.
Right, there's different,different days, different times
in our lives when we can dobetter than other days, and some
days, just showing up is anachievement, agreed.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So what happens if a kid identifies more with failure
than success?
What can we do to change thattemplate?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I think that's really hard when you have not had much
success, do not have muchconfidence to start something
new or try something new.
And it is really nice thatwe're lucky here.
We have a lot of activitiesthat maybe kids have never been
exposed to, so they have nonegative or positive feelings
about it, and so it's a littleeasier maybe to enter into it
(07:22):
because you're not alreadycarrying around this belief that
you can't do it or it'ssomething that you won't be
successful at, and so I thinkexposure to different things,
not just the things over andover again that you're not good
at.
So sometimes school is not abig success, but you can find
other avenues that help.
You know do better in that area.
so then it makes you feel likemaybe I could do better in
(07:43):
school and so, and I guess foradults too, I think it's you
know, but having the confidenceeven to try takes a lot of adult
support and encouragement andreassurance and unconditional
acceptance, regardless of howyou actually do.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I think sometimes our residents are afraid to try new
things you know they don't haveany experience with that but
also they don't want to fail infront of their peers.
Right, and that adult supportyou mentioned is so important.
I can remember my own daughterhere on campus was terrified to
be in a kayak, but the man incharge of that activity gave a
(08:24):
safety briefing, you know,talked in detail, you know, led
the children step by step bystep through what would happen
and what to expect and alsoparticipated with them and that
made the difference.
And you know, sometimes asadults we don't think that kids
are listening or attending, butshe came home and repeated that
(08:45):
entire safety briefing to me indetail.
you know, and I've shared thatwith that staff member, she was
paying attention.
It was important.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Don't you think?
For those same reasons, our ELPprogram out here is really
plays an important role withachievement.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
It does and you might explain what our ELP program is
.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, experiential learning program.
Where one, yeah, experientiallearning program where one.
The kids are in a setting wherethey can develop some competency
with projects, robotics,computers, woodworking.
They're in a smaller group.
They're not in a large groupwhere there's so much fear of
(09:33):
exposure and incompetency sothey could try new things.
And then they're with justwonderful kid whisperer mentors
that are wise and gentle and forsometimes the primary
caregivers to get trying to pushthe kid out of the nest to try
new things.
Sometimes that can just getinto a stuck point.
But for that mentor there tocome alongside a fresh voice
(09:53):
gives the kids some space to trynew things and it seems like
for all those reasons it reallyworks and kids come to life down
there, don't you think?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
But that makes me think againabout even as adults and staff.
I can remember a staff memberthat had to do a training and
got very, very unhinged rightbefore the training, thinking
that she wasn't going to be ableto do it, and she panicked and
said I don't think I can do this.
And I said that's okay, youdon't have to do it, somebody
else can do it, it doesn't haveto be you.
(10:21):
And so for that day she optedout, but then, because that was
okay and we moved on, the nexttime she was able to get up and
do it and then she was able todo it, you know, several times
very easily after that.
But it's also thatunconditional acceptance of it's
okay if you can't do it today,but we're going to keep trying
to help you get to that point.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
That's actually a really good segue to my next
question.
So if you set a goal for achild and you realize that they
can't meet that goal, is it okayto reset that goal?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
realize that they can't meet that goal, is it okay
to reset that goal?
You know I really hate theadage never quit.
I think it's really importantto know when it's time to quit,
and I wish I would have beentaught that when I was younger
that there are times, there aresituations, there are
relationships, there are thingsthat it's okay to recalibrate
and say you know what?
This isn't what I thought itwas going to be and this is not
what.
Something I need to do and so Idefinitely think that's
(11:10):
something we need to help teachis that there are times you need
to reassess the situation andsee if it's something that
you're going to be successful inor not, because it's not always
just try harder, right?
I think we get taught that ifyou just try harder, there's
some sometimes that's not thecase.
You can try as hard as you want, it's not going to work out the
way you want it to.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I think it also matters if you, the adult, set
that goal for a child or if thechild had any input on that goal
Right.
And so when we talk about thosegoals, it's really vital to get
the child's perspective andtheir input so that they have
buy-in and they also areinvested in that goal, and then,
(11:50):
if that goal seems out of reach, you reassess.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Great story on goals.
We had a boy here that wasabout as big around as my index
finger when he came and not veryathletic and he went out for
wrestling and he lost everymatch Right for maybe two years.
I can't remember what hisrecord was, but then he won a
(12:18):
match and so he was one andwhatever right.
And at our devotional thatWednesday he shared his praise
for the week is that he won amatch and he said you know, I
told coach I'm going to winstate.
And he said I told coach I'mgoing to win state.
And he said you know, coachtold me I need to have a more
(12:41):
realistic goal.
And I thought that and I couldjust imagine Coach Jones being
very kind and helping himthrough that, mentoring, through
that.
But in the big picture thisparticular boy did develop
confidence through the wrestlingprogram.
He didn't have a great recordbut he won some and became the
athletics in his particular case, became a place where he did
(13:05):
achieve and it helped give him alot of confidence throughout.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You know, just going on beyond Boys Ranch, so it's
really us, as the adults,raising and lowering the bar,
what the kid can actuallyachieve.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Well, I think you raise and lower that bar as it's
appropriate.
So you know, my guess would bein that scenario that that Coach
Jones would have told him,rather than focus on state,
let's work on district Right,and so that so that those goals
build towards the overall goalRight Sometimes we do set the
bar too high and it'sunrealistic and so that those
goals build towards the overallgoal right.
Sometimes we do set the bar toohigh and it's unrealistic, and
(13:41):
so we need to reevaluate thatright.
You don't tell a child who'sfailing.
Your goal is to make straightA's.
That's not reasonable, right,and so lowering the bar has a
negative connotation.
But maybe we just put that barin a more reasonable place and
then we can always raise it asit's appropriate, I think that's
hard too, especially when youhave someone who's motivated and
(14:04):
says you know, I want to winstate.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
We don't want to, you know, knock them down by saying
I don't think that's realisticfor you.
You need to have something morerealistic.
But it is helpful to have thatkind of, I think, guidance
because you can really, you know, have the opposite effect if
you set your goals too high,that you're not going to reach
them, and so you need somebuffering from the adults that
have a little bit more hopefullyreasonable view.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
So it's kind of interesting Sometimes when I see
kids start to have achievementin an area, they also sometimes
will struggle or they might bedisobedient or something like
that and the caregiver is goingto might be tempted to take away
that area where they are beingsuccessful as a consequence, to
try and get them to comply.
Do you feel like that's a goodstrategy?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, I think this goes so against the way probably
all of us were raised and allof us were taught that you
remove this as a punishment sothat you can try to get better
behavior.
And I just think what we knowis that when you're doing well
in one area, that confidence,that achievement can carry over
to other areas.
And so when you're trying tohelp someone do better, removing
(15:05):
something they're good atdoesn't often help any of the
situation at all, and then youtake away that one area of
confidence for them.
That makes it more difficultfor them to do well in the area
you're wanting them to do wellin.
It's really more about buildingon that rather than taking it
away.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So it kind of backfires a lot of times.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, I love this question because, like Michelle
said, it seems like the rightanswer to this is so
counterintuitive.
It goes against our instincts,it goes against our raising.
But I was just in my Biblereading this morning when Paul's
talking to a particular churchat Corinth.
He's trying to help themthrough some difficult things
and sounds like they were offthe rails in some regards.
(15:50):
But then he makes thiswonderful, wonderful point.
He says that his authority isfor building a podcast and say
but yeah, whenever you're at thepoint of contact with the child
(16:24):
, trying to make decisions andyou're stuck in a rut, it can be
difficult to figure out how tonavigate this, can't it?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, and then that makes me think too the same way
I'm with adults again is like ifyou have someone who's
struggling and you told them youknow what?
We're not going to let you dothe things that you're good at
right now, you're only going todo the things that you're
struggling in.
We would never do that to theadult, but that makes sense to
us, for children, for somereason, and so I always think
when you flip it that way, thenit doesn't.
(16:51):
It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
I think, time we're frustrated with a child, that we
tend to exert more control inan effort to get compliance.
But when we look underneaththat, it's usually driven by
fear, our fear right that thatchild is going to fail in some
way or that we are not beingsuccessful as parents.
You know, but a lot of timesthat motivation to exert more
(17:17):
control is really more about usthan it is about them.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I also wonder what happens when you take everything
away, like I've heard it say.
You know, freedom is justanother word for having nothing
left to lose, right?
And if we take everything awayand they have nothing good going
on, then they do whatever theywant, right, because they have
that freedom to do that at thatpoint.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Well, and they've lost motivation.
Yeah Again, if I can't do theone thing that I'm good at, I'm
defeated right, and I don't haveany sense of achievement.
And so why try?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And that kind of technique or mentality does lead
to you just have to keep doingmore and more and more, so you
have to take doing more and moreand more, so you have to take
this away, take that away, andthen pretty soon there's nothing
left to take away, which, if itworked, you wouldn't have to
get to that point, right?
But that's what happens.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
So, when it comes to achievement, I've heard it said
that competence leads toachievement.
If so, what are some ways thatwe can help develop competence
in children?
Speaker 4 (18:16):
I think you start out by determining what are they
already good at?
What you know every child hasinterests.
Every child has something thatthey do well and you focus on
those small things and buildthem into larger things and with
some children you have to looka little harder to find out what
(18:37):
is that interest or what isthat competence right?
So it may be that you know youdid a great job of picking your
clothes up and putting them inthe laundry hamper, or you know
the way you helped me withdinner tonight was really great.
Thank you so much.
You had a good attitude whenyou did that.
You know you're focusing on thesmaller things and you build
(19:00):
towards the larger things.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, which makes me think about there needs to be an
attuned adult who notices thosethings right, and so a lot of
times our kids aren't able totell you what their strengths
are or maybe even what they like, and it takes those caring
adults in the environment to beable to point those things out
for them until they can see itthemselves sure is helpful if
there is a community in place, achild and if, if a caregiver is
(19:28):
stuck and pretty isolated, thisall becomes pretty difficult,
doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
but if for a charismatic adult that comes
along and notices and is helpfuland invites kids into something
new, it seems like that, thatcan really open things up and
free things up.
I'm thinking of it happens outhere all the time.
I'm thinking about oneparticular case where we had a
boy this was 10, 15 years agohad a boy come in from out of
(19:56):
state and he shows up for one.
We're doing a prayer ridetonight with a group and he came
out for one of those and he hadon an NBA tank top and some
kind of tennis shoes and wasn'tdressed for horses and he was so
frightened and his eyes were asbig as saucers and he went on
(20:20):
that ride and it was scary tohim.
But there was a charismatic,caring adult on that ride that
noticed him, talked him throughit and that became point of
competency for this particularyoung man.
In just a few weeks he'sworking at the horse barn and to
(20:40):
this day now he's a ranch handcowboy and has great competency
in this.
But the change that happened inhim is eyes that were as big as
sausage, where you could seethe fear on his face.
He had this confidence and thispeace once he had this place
where he had achievement, thisisland of competency here at
Boys Ranch.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
I think we referenced this when we talked about
belonging, but it's helpful tobuild an intentional community
for your child to, you know, tocreate opportunities for them to
interact with other adults whomyou trust, whom they can
develop trust with right, and sothat might be an aunt or a
(21:21):
grandparent or a teacher,someone at church or who is
involved in any other group thatyou participate in.
But I always wanted my childrento have connections with other
adults so that if there wassomething they felt they could
not share with me, they had acommunity of adults around them
(21:44):
to share and support them.
And those are the same adultswho can help your child achieve,
who can point out.
Here are some talents, I see,or skills that you have, or you
did this very well and I thinkthat's part of it.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Well, thank you all for joining us today.
I hope you feel like you'veachieved some sort of alignment
listening to us and alwaysremember you might have to loan
out your frontal lobe today.
Just make sure you remember toget them back.
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