December 23, 2025 • 31 mins
We unpack how regulation, not compliance, drives real change and why the brain’s state decides whether a child can listen, connect, and learn. We share tools for co-regulation, decode hyperarousal and dissociation, and show how to move from chaos to cortex with simple, steady steps.
• defining regulation as the capacity to regain control and act with intent
• differences between regulation and compliance
• arousal continuum from calm to terror linked to brain regions
• state-dependent functioning and why language fails in survival mode
• hyperarousal versus dissociation and how both block learning
• regulate, relate, reason as a practical sequence
• rhythmic, repetitive, patterned activities that soothe the lower brain
• mirror neurons, co-regulation, and caregiver self-checks
• trauma, sensory overload, and environmental tweaks that help
• behavior as communication and the power of snacks, water, and movement
• spotting re-regulation and building a personal toolbox
• honoring processing styles and using timed check-ins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys
Ranch podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions, utilizing theknowledge, experience, and
(00:21):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to
offer.
Now here is your host, CalFarley Staff Development
Coordinator, Joshua Sprock.
SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
Hello and welcome.
Today we're going to talk aboutone of the most important skills
for both parents and kids,regulation.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
To do that today, I'm joined by Suzanne Wright,
Vice President of Training andIntervention.
SPEAKER_03 (00:40):
Adam Len, Clinical Intervention Specialist.
SPEAKER_02 (00:43):
Julie Ortega, Direct Care Staff Training Specialist.
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
All right, let's kick off with our question of
the day.
Since we're talking aboutregulation, what activity
dysregulates you the fastest?
SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
This is probably an unpopular answer, but family
gatherings dysregulate me reallyquickly.
There are so many differentpeople and different
personalities, and individually,I'm fine.
But when all of those differentpersonalities join together in a
group, I tend to getdysregulated very fast.
SPEAKER_03 (01:10):
I agree.
I think overstimulation frommultiple voices all talking at
the same time, especially if itif that conversation is directed
at me and everybody's expectinganswers.
I can be like I'm a little bittoo simple-minded for multiple
conversations at the same time.
SPEAKER_05 (01:25):
I agree with both of you.
I also, if if the environment isreally chaotic, it's going to
dysregulate me.
If there's like conversationsand TV and activity and just a
lot going on at one time, it candysregulate me.
And then just something like ifI have my day planned out and
something throws a kink in thatplan, that can dysregulate me.
(01:46):
Julie, that's every day.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
How about you, Josh?
What dysregulates you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:51):
Well, I'm really glad that I don't live in a big
city because driving in trafficis my number one.
I'm pretty sure if I lived in abigger city, I'd end up on one
of those viral videos for roadrage people or something like
that.
Because uh I don't know howpeople live in big cities do it.
I would I'd rage monster onevery single day to work, I
think.
All right, so we're gonna betalking about regulation today.
(02:11):
So what is regulation?
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
I don't think that we use that term in everyday
life.
We're we're familiar with itnow.
We've been using that for a longtime at Boys Ranch, but I think
prior to that term regulation,we probably would have said
calmness, right?
That somebody who's regulated iscalm.
SPEAKER_05 (02:29):
I agree.
It's when we do interviews,we'll use the word regulation,
like thing regulationactivities, things to help the
kids become regulated or whatmakes them dysregulated.
And people will ask you, Do thekids know what you're talking
about?
And we're like, Yes, the kids,everybody on our campus is very
familiar with that language, butanybody off campus isn't
familiar with that language.
SPEAKER_03 (02:50):
So Yeah, I think it's kind of the ability to
regain control over youremotions and behavior and act in
a way that you intend to.
You would intend to.
SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
So how is emotional or behavioral regulation
different from simple obedienceor compliance?
SPEAKER_03 (03:06):
I think that's a really good question.
I think emotional and behavioralregulation is really for your
own personal well-being andallows you to function socially
where obedience and complianceis kind of based off of a more
subservient model where you knowthe person's well-being isn't
necessarily taken into account.
SPEAKER_02 (03:24):
Yeah, I think if I want somebody to obey or comply,
I don't really care about theiremotional state.
I simply want immediatecompliance, right?
But if we want a child to beregulated, we want them to have
an internal sense of calmness,not just the outward appearance
of compliant.
SPEAKER_05 (03:41):
I think that's important because sometimes a
kid can look regulated, butreally emotionally they're
dysregulated and they couldstill be being obedient or
compliant, but they're feelingemotionally dysregulated on the
inside.
So true.
SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
So can you walk us through the arousal continuum
and how it explains differentstates that kids experience
throughout the day?
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
The arousal continuum is a concept that we
on our campus learned from Dr.
Bruce Perry.
And it involves five states: calm, alert, alarm, fear, and (04:07):
undefined
terror.
And the concept is thatbasically each one of us at all
times throughout the day issomewhere on that arousal
continuum.
If you are calm, you may simplybe watching TV.
It doesn't take a lot of effortfrom you.
You're paying attention, butyou're not being called upon to
(04:27):
interact.
Alert would be maybe you arelistening to information in a
sermon at church or in aclassroom situation where you
can be more interactive, you'repaying attention.
If you are asked a question, youcould answer that question.
Alarm would be something thatgets your attention that tells
your brain, hey, you need to payattention to that.
And for example, if you weredriving to work and you noticed
(04:51):
smoke and a small fire on theside of the road, your brain
would say, Hey, pay attention tothat because we may be in
danger.
As you get closer, if that firestarted to spread, you may
become fearful about yoursafety.
And then if there was anexplosion, you might go straight
into terror.
Different triggers cause eachone of us to move up and down
(05:11):
that arousal continuumthroughout the day.
So that what triggers one personto alarm, fear, or terror,
another person might not respondto.
So it's very individualized.
But also where you are on thatarousal continuum correlates to
where you are in your brain.
If you are calm or alert, youcan be in your cortex, which is
the rational thinking part ofyour brain.
(05:33):
It allows you to plan ahead, toremember, to have calm
conversation.
Once you are at alert or alarm,you start to move down into your
limbic system, which is theemotional part of your brain.
Fear or terror would push youdown through your diencephalon,
the survival brain, all the wayto the brainstem.
And at that point, you can'treally access your cortex.
(05:54):
You don't have the ability tohave a calm conversation because
you're in the lower parts ofyour brain.
SPEAKER_00 (05:59):
So then what is state-dependent functioning and
why is it critical to understandthis in parenting and
caregiving?
SPEAKER_03 (06:05):
So state-dependent functioning is the idea that we
will we function based off ofwhat part of our brain is most
engaged at that time.
And so if you were walkingacross the road and weren't p
necessarily paying attentionlike you should, and you turned
and saw a vehicle coming yourway, your brain would automatic
j automatically shift into thatterror state and you would act
(06:28):
accordingly to, you know, tothat, to that function, jump out
of the way, probably beforeyou're even aware of it.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
Aaron Ross Powell Sometim of their brain and we
expect them to act as if they'rein their cortex.
We have expectations that sayyou should be able to behave as
if your brain was calm.
But if they're not calm, thatdetermines and and dictates
their functioning.
SPEAKER_03 (06:50):
Aaron Powell And so if we try to engage a person who
is operating in one of thesekind of lower brain regions
because they're in just in thatstate of fear or terror or
alarm.
And we're trying to engage themassuming that they are in a calm
state, it's just not going towork.
They're not, they don't haveaccess to that part of their
brain at that time.
SPEAKER_05 (07:09):
Aaron Powell Yeah, you're gonna end up escalating
or having a kid totally shutdown or it's not gonna be
productive.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:16):
And I think sometimes we're not aware of
what state that child is inbecause we're not triggered in
the same way.
So maybe it's a child who hastest anxiety or performance
anxiety, and the teacher asksthem to come up and solve a math
problem on the board in front ofall their peers, and they just
completely shut down.
Either they withdraw, they getreally quiet, they won't respond
to the teacher, or they stand upand start yelling and throw in a
(07:38):
book.
And and the adult response isthat was such a small thing to
ask you what's wrong with you.
Instead of understanding thatfor that child, your request put
them lower in their brain andfurther down that arousal
continuum, it's not necessarilya conscious choice on the child
of the part, on the part of thechild.
SPEAKER_00 (07:58):
So how does hyperarousal and dissociation
affect a child's ability tolearn, connect, and make
decisions?
SPEAKER_02 (08:04):
You know, there's kind of a continuum between
being hyper-aroused, betweendissociation.
And commonly we talk aboutthings like fight or flight,
right?
And so when a child is ishyper-aroused, we tend to think
of that as the fight.
In my example, that's the kidwho stood up and threw a book
and cursed at the teacher and,you know, ran out of the room
rather than do the math problem.
Disassociation or flight is thekid who just checks out.
(08:27):
They just withdraw into theirselves.
They don't respond.
And so depending on what thetrigger is, you may see a child
go one of those two ways.
Some kids tend to be morehyper-aroused or where almost
every reaction is met withfight.
And some kids tend to be moredissociative or flight, have
flight tendencies.
SPEAKER_03 (08:46):
And those fight, flight, freeze brain states are
there for a reason.
They're our brain is equippedwith that for survival.
And so when a when a child isoperating in one of these
survival brain states, they'rethey don't have access to the
parts of their brain that areready to connect or learn.
SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
Yeah.
If kids are in the lower part oftheir brain, they're almost
physically prevented fromlearning because learning takes
place in the cortex, consciouslearning in a classroom, right?
We learn a lot of things in thelower parts of our brain, like
for example, how to keepourselves safe.
But if we're talking aboutclassroom learning or a
conversation that we're havingwith one of our own kids where
we're saying, hey, do youunderstand what you did wrong
(09:25):
and how you need to behave inthe future?
That child can't absorb thatinformation or respond to you
unless they're in their cortex.
SPEAKER_03 (09:32):
In a sense, those lower brain states are they're
pretty simple fight, flight, orfreeze.
Yeah.
And so to be in one of thosebrain states, a child doesn't
really need to be creativenecessarily.
And so that their functional IQis is lower in in those regions
because they just don't needthat.
That's kind of a waste ofenergy.
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
When we think about regulation, I think oftentimes
the hyperarousal, we're prettygood at understanding and seeing
that we have to calm kids down.
But I think on the other side,the dissociation, I don't think
people realize you have toregulate kids up when they're
dissociating.
Can you guys talk about thatmaybe a little bit?
SPEAKER_02 (10:07):
Adults like compliant children.
And sometimes compliance ismissed because it's
dissociating, right?
So so you may have a child who'sjust as dysregulated as the one
who can't sit still or be quietin a classroom, but they're
quiet, and we're we're missingthat.
And so those kids have needstoo, but sometimes it's
overlooked.
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
So what are some common misinterpretations of
dysregulated behavior that leadparents to discipline instead of
connect?
SPEAKER_03 (10:32):
I think assuming that a child can access the
cortex and to to try to useverbal language and reason to
try to help a child regulate isa is a big misconception.
Um, and uh and results infrustration on the parts of the
parents.
SPEAKER_05 (10:47):
I think often the parents think that it's
intentional, like this behavioris on purpose, it's intentional,
and we're missing that there'ssomething going on that's
triggered that behavior.
SPEAKER_02 (10:57):
I agree.
I think as adults, we oftendefault to any misbehavior is
simple, willful defiance, thatthe child is actually in
control, but they are choosingto misbehave in this moment or
push our buttons in this momentinstead of understanding that
more often than not, that issimply not the situation.
That child is in a lower brainstate.
(11:17):
Remembering too that a child'scortex isn't fully developed.
We have a lot of expectations, Iwould say, especially of
teenagers, for them to accesstheir cortex and behave in a way
that makes sense to us as adultswithout remembering that that
cortex isn't going to be fullydeveloped till they're between
25 and 30 years old.
Right.
And so are kids ever will fullydefine.
(11:40):
Yes, 100%.
All of us in this room areparents.
So we have certainly seen thatin our own kiddos, right?
But more often than not, we needto be curious about that brain
state and about what's beengoing on in their world.
And I think that you will besurprised at how most behavior
is simply a request for helpfrom an adult rather than an
(12:03):
attempt to push an adult'sbuttons.
SPEAKER_05 (12:06):
I think sometimes too, like, and this was one
thing that I had to learn was itit doesn't have to be a big
thing either that's causing themto be dysregulated.
It could be are you thirsty?
Are you dehydrated?
Do you need your to drink?
Are you hungry?
When was the last time you had asnack?
And that can be enough to getthem regulated.
(12:26):
It it doesn't always have to besomething big that is triggering
a a behavior or dissociating.
Yeah, that's a good point,Julie.
unknown (12:35):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_03 (12:35):
And that those lower brain regions control those
physical functions like heart,you know, heart rate, hunger,
feelings of hunger, sleep, thosekinds of things.
So it makes sense that if achild doesn't have, you know,
sufficient reward in thoseareas, then those that part of
the brain is gonna kind of fireup and say, hey, pay attention
to me.
SPEAKER_00 (12:55):
So why is it so hard for some children to just calm
down when they're dysregulated?
SPEAKER_02 (12:59):
Aaron Powell I would say it's almost physically
impossible.
What you're saying is, hey, Isee that you're in the lower
part of your brain, justimmediately go to your cortex,
right?
And that that it just doesn'twork that way, right?
Even for us as adults, if youever have been told by another
person, calm down, you know foryour own self that that was not
helpful and actually may haveendangered the life of the
(13:21):
person who verbalized that toyou.
You may have made it worse,right?
And so you're asking not just abehavioral impossibility, but a
physical impossibility.
It's also important to know thatchildren don't come with an
understanding of how toregulate, right?
We teach children to regulatewhen once they're born, right?
And throughout throughout theirlives.
(13:43):
An example I give frequently intraining is that, you know, for
nine months in the womb, aninfant hears mother's heartbeat,
right?
So it's rhythmic, it'srepetitive, it's patterned, and
it's calming and soothing tothat infant.
Once an infant is born and theycry, what do we do?
We pick them up, we swaddlethem, we rock them, we pad them.
Rhythmic, repetitive, patternedintervention.
(14:04):
And so we co-regulate with thatchild.
And then as they grow intotoddlers and older children,
we're helping them learn skillsand techniques to regulate.
We don't just say, go to yourroom and regulate on your own.
We have to teach it and we haveto model it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
So when it comes to regulation, we utilize the model
of regulate, relate, and thenreason.
Can you break down that modelfor us and why it's so
important?
Go in that order.
SPEAKER_05 (14:29):
If we are functioning in the lower part of
our brain, we can't reason.
So we have to become regulated.
We have to be able to move upinto the um higher functioning
parts of our brain, back intoour cortex.
So regulation has to come firstbecause you're not going to be
able to reason withoutregulation.
SPEAKER_03 (14:48):
Yeah, in a way, it kind of regulate, relate, reason
kind of mirrors that model ofthe brain that we refer to so
often, where regulate refers tomaybe having well-being in the
lower parts of the brain.
Relate happens in that midbrain,and then reasoning is what goes
on in the frontal, you know, thecortex part of the brain.
SPEAKER_02 (15:07):
And anything that that's rhythmic, repetitive,
repetitive, or patterned is whathelps your lower brain regulate,
right?
So that could be going for awalk, listening to music,
playing with a fidget, playing avideo game, bouncing a ball back
and forth, rocking in a rockingchair, right?
Anything that's rhythmic,repetitive, or patterned.
Only once you're regulated andthat child is regulated can you
(15:29):
move up to the next level ofrelate, which really is about
relationship, right?
Being in relationship with thatother person to whatever extent
is appropriate, right?
Is this your child or a spouseor a neighbor, somebody you go
to church with?
Is it a coworker or a boss?
You know, so there are very manydifferent types of relationship.
But in order for you to resolvethis issue, there has to be a
(15:50):
relationship between you and theother person that you both
value, right?
So you're extending safetythrough relationship to that
other person.
Only then can you get up in thecortex where you can reason.
And as adults, so often wedefault to reason first, right?
We want to jump in and give thelecture and talk to the child
about what they did wrong andwhat they should do differently
(16:13):
the next time.
But that's pointless if you havefailed to regulate and do it in
the context of relationship,right?
Once you've provided thatfoundation, then you can have
that conversation cortex tocortex.
SPEAKER_05 (16:25):
I think you said such an important thing too,
that sometimes we think it'sjust our child that is
dysregulated.
And many times it's both of usthat are dysregulated, or it
could be me that's dysregulatedthat's causing my child to
become dysregulated.
And so I think we have toremember that it's not always
(16:46):
our child that is thedysregulated.
Amen.
SPEAKER_00 (16:50):
So that's a great segue.
So how can adults accidentallymake things worse by reasoning
and lecturing before a child isregulated?
SPEAKER_02 (16:57):
You remember the Charlie Brown uh cartoons,
right?
And Charlie Brown sits in aclassroom with a teacher and and
all he hears is wah, wah, wah,wah, wah, right.
He he can't process any wordsthat are coming out of that
teacher's mouth.
And so, in the same way, when wewant to jump into reasoning or
lecturing, a child who's in thelower parts of their brain, wah,
(17:18):
wah, wah is all they're gonnahear.
You know, they just don't havecapacity to process that
information, which in turn makesus frustrated if we feel like
they're not listening andthey're not responding in the
way that we expect.
And that tends to escalate thesituation and make it worse,
Suzanne says from pastexperience as a parent.
SPEAKER_05 (17:37):
Josh talks about this in a training that he does
and where a lecture feels goodfor us.
It's unproductive.
It does.
SPEAKER_00 (17:45):
I like to lecture my daughters.
It's it's good to stand on mysoapbox and let them have it.
SPEAKER_03 (17:50):
I really like what Julie said earlier about adults
being subject to thesestate-dependent functioning as
well.
So, you know, we can't justassume that it's only our
children who are dealing withthis.
This is just a part of all ofus.
It's a part of our bodies.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Aaron Powell, so what role does co-regulation
play and how can a parent becomea calming presence when their
child is overwhelmed?
SPEAKER_02 (18:10):
A phrase that we use commonly here on our campus is
it takes a calm brain to calm abrain, right?
So if you've got a child orchildren who are dysregulated
and you come in with a calmbrain, you have more opportunity
to influence them to be calm.
If they're dysregulated and youcome in and you become
dysregulated and you start toyell, you're just adding fuel to
(18:33):
the fire.
That happens because ofsomething in our brain called
mirror neurons.
And we have lots of differentkinds of neurons, but mirror
neurons mean that we will tendto mirror the state of the
person in front of us.
And so if someone's really calm,their mirror neurons will impact
mine and I will start to have tohave a sense of calm.
If somebody's really escalated,especially if I'm not careful
(18:55):
and aware of that, I can findmyself escalating right along
with them.
The best example I can give youof mirror neurons is yawning.
So what do we always say?
If you see somebody yawn, we sayit's what?
Contagious.
It's contagious, it's catching,right?
And so that's your mirrorneurons if you catch that yawn.
Sometimes you just say the wordand people start to yawn.
(19:15):
But that's a great example ofhow that works.
It's not a conscious choice.
You're not, you know, intendingto escalate.
But again, if you're caught offguard, you may escalate right
with that other person.
And so for kids, who should bethe calming presence?
It should be us.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:30):
Yeah.
I think that speaks to theimportance of self-care for, you
know, on the part of the parent.
They need to know what they cando to stay regulated, to be
present for their kids.
SPEAKER_00 (19:41):
So, how can caregivers identify their own
regulation levels beforeresponding to a dysregulated
child?
SPEAKER_02 (19:46):
I think you have to take a breath and step back and
kind of check in with yourself.
You know, one of the things Dr.
Perry talks about is putting amoment between impulse and
behavior, right?
So that that when you have thatimpulse.
And you act immediately,sometimes you make the wrong
choice, right?
And so, so we're trying toextend that moment between
(20:07):
impulse and behavior for ourkids.
That's something we're trying toteach them to do.
But it's so important for us todo that as well, so that we have
that impulse to yell or throwout a consequence that if we
could just put a moment of timein there, take a breath, you
know, and do whatever we need todo to return to a sense of
calmness so that we can respondto that child rather than just
(20:29):
react to whatever situation ishappening.
Now, obviously, there are timeswhere it's a safety issue and
you need to immediately jump in,but frequently we could give
ourselves a moment.
SPEAKER_05 (20:39):
I'm thinking about a day that you, Suzanne and I were
sewing together.
And I think we have to listen tothe people around us too.
Like if someone says, maybe youneed to take a break, we should
probably listen and take abreak.
Like Suzanne was helping me witha project and I was starting to
feel very overwhelmed by it.
And she said, you know what,we're just gonna go take a walk
(20:59):
around the block.
And we did, and it was just thejust the activity that I needed
to get myself back on track andrefocused and ready to tackle
the project again.
So I think that's the samething.
If if we aren't able torecognize it in ourselves, but
someone comes to us and says,Hey, maybe you need to take a
break or let's go for a walkthen.
SPEAKER_02 (21:19):
And I didn't I didn't say, Julie, go go walk
around the blocker by yourself,right?
But that co-regulation'simportant for us as adults too,
rather than just having toregulate on your own.
SPEAKER_03 (21:29):
Aaron Powell It seems that co-regulation almost
requires a sacrifice on the parton the part of the caregiver, uh
almost like a brain statesacrifice, like to pull somebody
out of those fear-terror partsof the brain, you can't
necessarily be calm.
You kind of have to like divedown into your own alarm system
to kind of do that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:48):
Aaron Powell So how does a trauma history or sensory
processing issues, sensoryprocessing difficulty impact a
child's ability to stayregulated?
SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
Aaron Powell You know, when we think about that
arousal continuum, again, calm,alert, alarm, fear, and terror.
Most people live between calmand alert.
That's our normal state, right?
But when you've had a history oftrauma, then you tend to live
more between alert and alarm,right?
It could be anywhere on thatcontinuum.
So you have to think about yourown personal experiences or
(22:16):
those of your child.
But when you live at alert oralarm, boy, it's not very far to
terror, right?
You're already halfway there.
And so it could be a lessseemingly insignificant issue
that triggers you and puts youall the way to terror.
As opposed to somebody who livesbetween calm and alert, it may
take a bigger issue to push themtowards that opposite end of the
(22:38):
arousal continuum.
So trauma history plays a reallybig role in state-dependent
functioning on where somebodylives, on what state that they
reside in on a regular, on aregular basis.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
I think you guys all mentioned in the question of the
day that was kind ofenvironmental overload that kind
of was your trigger.
And I think about sensoryprocessing, how often we just
get overwhelmed by sensoryissues that dysregulate us.
And I don't think people payattention to a lot of that as
much.
I remember when I used to be anon-call supervisor, oftentimes
I'd get calls to homes that werejust out of control,
(23:11):
dysregulated.
And what I would do before I'dgo talk to anyone, I would just
go turn the TV down, turn thelights down, have the kids turn
their music down.
And just in the act of doingthose things, regulating the
sensory, turning the sensoryinput down, it just naturally
calmed the environment down.
So I think being aware of yourenvironment and seeing kind of
what sensory issues might bedistracting or dysregulating a
(23:32):
kid is a good idea as well.
So why is it important to lookbeyond the behavior and ask what
is this behavior communicating?
SPEAKER_03 (23:38):
I think it maybe it informs us or helps to inform us
where this child is coming from,like what part of the brain
they're they're coming from.
And then that indicates to us whow we can approach the
situation in a in a way that'sgonna help and not make it
worse.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
You know, we try to act from the concept that all
behavior indicates need, right?
Especially misbehavior, right?
And so just like Julie said, youcan look at a child who seems
dysregulated and wonder whatkind of emotional problem
they're having, and in reality,they just need a snack, right?
But but you know, if you cantrain yourself to see behavior
and go, wow, what's missing?
(24:14):
What's motivating that?
I know we've had kids, you know,do something to get in trouble
out here on campus before.
And a lot of times whensupervisors intervene, the first
thing they say is, do you need asnack?
You know, let's go to the snackbar and get a drink.
And sometimes staff wouldrespond, oh, you're gonna reward
that misbehavior with takingthem to the snack bar, you know,
and and in reality that's nottrue, right?
(24:36):
But if their blood sugar hasdipped and I can give them
something to drink and a snackto have and get them back on an
even keel, then we're gonna havea productive conversation about
what that behavior was.
That behavior may just go awayon its own because they had a
snack, right?
And and so I just think that'sso important is to always be
curious about what need behavioris expressing.
SPEAKER_03 (24:59):
When a child comes in for counseling, the first
thing we do is offer them asnack and water to address that.
If that's if that's an issuewhen they walk through the
doors, it's not by the timethey're ready to go.
SPEAKER_02 (25:11):
I'll tell you that my my first year here 25 years
ago, we had five boys who ranaway and they were they left in
in the middle of the night.
We couldn't find them.
You know, at at 6 30 a.m.
the next morning, as soon asit's light, we're out looking
for those kids.
And and hours later we finallyfind them.
We turn a corner and they appearrelieved to see us, right?
(25:32):
They they walk right to us.
My boss got out of the truck andsaid, You know, are you safe?
When's the last time you hadanything to eat or drink?
And he's passing out bottles ofwater.
And I stood with my mouth openbecause my first instinct was to
go, Where have you been?
We've been looking for you allnight.
You know, like like it was afear response.
I was afraid for their safety,but his response showed them
(25:54):
care and concern.
And that is not what they weregonna get had I spoke first.
And so that was a big lesson forme about meeting their needs.
And and I shut my mouth as soonas he opened his, and I was
really glad that he spoke firstand was able to extend that care
and concern in instead of myapproach.
SPEAKER_03 (26:12):
It's so cool to think what that act did to
further relationship betweenthose kids and the caregivers on
ranch.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
So, what might be some signs that a child is
moving back to regulation andhow can we celebrate or
reinforce those moments?
SPEAKER_03 (26:25):
I think if we remember that regulate, relate
reason model, if we notice thata child is showing more signs of
being able to relate, we knowwe're going in the right
direction.
That's good.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
Yeah.
I think sometimes kids also canidentify that they're
dysregulated, right?
Or that they're moving towardsregulation.
And so I think when we can pointthat out in a supportive way,
that they start to connectstates with physically, how does
that feel in my body, right?
So if we were even able to say,I see that you can't sit still
(26:56):
and you're really fidgeting, youhave a stressed look on your
face, do you feel dysregulated,right?
We name it for them.
And then as we see they're ableto sit calm and they're taking
some drinks of water, they'remaking eye contact with us.
You know, it seems like you'refeeling more regulated.
We're just noticing thosethings, pointing, pointing those
things out, but do it doing itin a supportive way.
SPEAKER_03 (27:18):
Maybe we can point out the things that help them
get regulated too, so that theycan put them in their toolbox
and recall them next timethey're they're feeling
dysregulated.
SPEAKER_05 (27:27):
I think too, once kids start, like when you name
it, kids start like connectingall of those dots.
And then eventually they'll beable to say, okay, feeling
better, I can talk now, or I'mready.
And they will be able toinitiate that on their own as
well.
I used to have a kid that in ourhome that would get frustrated
and run out of the house.
And he would always go to thelittle baseball diamond to the
(27:49):
dug sit in the dugout behindStephen's home.
So I would call a supervisor tocome over and I'd drive over and
get him, and I'd say, You needto get in the vehicle, and he'd
say, I'm not talking.
And say, You don't have to talk,but you need to come with me.
I can't just leave you out herein the dark.
And so he would get in thevehicle and just the drive would
start helping to regulate him.
And pretty soon he'd just, youknow, the rest of the way home
(28:11):
would be chatting up, what madehim so frustrated.
And so it got to the point whereI'd just pull up to the dugout,
he'd come get in, we'd we'ddrive a few, you know, up and
down the main road, and then ina few minutes he'd be ready to
talk.
But he just he knew I can't havea conversation right now.
I need some time.
So he just needed that space andsome regulation.
SPEAKER_03 (28:31):
That side-by-side environment, great for
co-regulation too.
SPEAKER_02 (28:35):
We talk about people who are internal processors and
people who are externalprocessors, right?
And an internal processor issomebody who kind of wants to
withdraw into their self andthink about what just happened
and they're not immediatelyready to discuss it.
Whereas an external processorwants to talk about it right
now, right?
You know, and they process byverbalizing what's going on to
(28:56):
another person.
And some of the biggestconflicts happen between
internal or external, right?
So it's really important to knowhow you process, but also how
your child or your spouse oreven your boss, how do they
process and then give space andrespect to that person's
attempt.
So if Julie had said, not onlydo you have to get in the car,
but you have to talk about itright now, that would have made
(29:18):
things worse, right?
But instead, she said, you know,for safety reasons, you need to
be here with me, but we can bequiet.
Right.
And so I think that's soimportant that we allow kids
some time and space.
Maybe they do need to go sit intheir room and be alone for a
little bit.
It's not that we're never gonnatalk about it, but let's give
them space to regulate and comeback up in the higher parts of
(29:39):
their brain.
It may also be that we need torecognize, hey, I'm not ready to
talk about it.
And we say to that child, hey, Ineed a few moments to calm down
for my brain to regulate.
You know, would you mind if I gosit and have a cup of coffee?
And when I feel like I'm readyto talk, I'll come to you.
And the amazing thing is thatwhen we extend that respect to
our kids, they'll return it tous.
SPEAKER_03 (29:59):
And it models to them that that's an option.
SPEAKER_05 (30:02):
I think too, it's important if we send a kid to
their room, like maybe you needto take a time out in your room
or do you want some space inyour room?
Then we don't just leave themthere.
We we check in with them or weeven just a walk by and a peek
in lets them know you're stillthere, you're ready, and they're
ready.
(30:22):
And yeah, so we talk about thatum in training sometimes too.
That you know, don't don't senda kid to their room and then
just leave them there feelingalone.
SPEAKER_02 (30:31):
Yeah.
I'm gonna come back and check inon you in 15 minutes and yeah,
and you know, and that check-inis, hey, do you feel like you're
ready to talk?
Nope, not yet.
Okay, I'll be back 15 minutes,right?
We want to make sure they knowthey can't avoid the
conversation.
Right.
But we we would prefer to havethat when they're in their
cortex.
SPEAKER_00 (30:49):
Well, that wraps up another episode where we tried
to regulate ourselves, try tohelp you relate to your kids and
reason with reality.
If any of that made sense withyou or at least made you feel
slightly more sane, considerleaving us a five-star review.
It's free, painless, and oddlysatisfying.
Share this episode with afriend, preferably one that
still thinks they can logictheir way out of a kid with
going through a meltdown.
(31:10):
Until next time, remember, youmight have to loan out your
frontal lobes faded to make sureyou remember to get them back.
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about CalFarley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
calfarley.org.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
(31:38):
Cal Farley's.
Thank you for spending your timewith us and have a blessed day.
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys
Ranch podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions, utilizing theknowledge, experience, and
(00:21):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to
offer.
Now here is your host, CalFarley Staff Development
Coordinator, Joshua Sprock.
SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
Hello and welcome.
Today we're going to talk aboutone of the most important skills
for both parents and kids,regulation.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
To do that today, I'm joined by Suzanne Wright,
Vice President of Training andIntervention.
SPEAKER_03 (00:40):
Adam Len, Clinical Intervention Specialist.
SPEAKER_02 (00:43):
Julie Ortega, Direct Care Staff Training Specialist.
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
All right, let's kick off with our question of
the day.
Since we're talking aboutregulation, what activity
dysregulates you the fastest?
SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
This is probably an unpopular answer, but family
gatherings dysregulate me reallyquickly.
There are so many differentpeople and different
personalities, and individually,I'm fine.
But when all of those differentpersonalities join together in a
group, I tend to getdysregulated very fast.
SPEAKER_03 (01:10):
I agree.
I think overstimulation frommultiple voices all talking at
the same time, especially if itif that conversation is directed
at me and everybody's expectinganswers.
I can be like I'm a little bittoo simple-minded for multiple
conversations at the same time.
SPEAKER_05 (01:25):
I agree with both of you.
I also, if if the environment isreally chaotic, it's going to
dysregulate me.
If there's like conversationsand TV and activity and just a
lot going on at one time, it candysregulate me.
And then just something like ifI have my day planned out and
something throws a kink in thatplan, that can dysregulate me.
(01:46):
Julie, that's every day.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
How about you, Josh?
What dysregulates you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:51):
Well, I'm really glad that I don't live in a big
city because driving in trafficis my number one.
I'm pretty sure if I lived in abigger city, I'd end up on one
of those viral videos for roadrage people or something like
that.
Because uh I don't know howpeople live in big cities do it.
I would I'd rage monster onevery single day to work, I
think.
All right, so we're gonna betalking about regulation today.
(02:11):
So what is regulation?
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
I don't think that we use that term in everyday
life.
We're we're familiar with itnow.
We've been using that for a longtime at Boys Ranch, but I think
prior to that term regulation,we probably would have said
calmness, right?
That somebody who's regulated iscalm.
SPEAKER_05 (02:29):
I agree.
It's when we do interviews,we'll use the word regulation,
like thing regulationactivities, things to help the
kids become regulated or whatmakes them dysregulated.
And people will ask you, Do thekids know what you're talking
about?
And we're like, Yes, the kids,everybody on our campus is very
familiar with that language, butanybody off campus isn't
familiar with that language.
SPEAKER_03 (02:50):
So Yeah, I think it's kind of the ability to
regain control over youremotions and behavior and act in
a way that you intend to.
You would intend to.
SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
So how is emotional or behavioral regulation
different from simple obedienceor compliance?
SPEAKER_03 (03:06):
I think that's a really good question.
I think emotional and behavioralregulation is really for your
own personal well-being andallows you to function socially
where obedience and complianceis kind of based off of a more
subservient model where you knowthe person's well-being isn't
necessarily taken into account.
SPEAKER_02 (03:24):
Yeah, I think if I want somebody to obey or comply,
I don't really care about theiremotional state.
I simply want immediatecompliance, right?
But if we want a child to beregulated, we want them to have
an internal sense of calmness,not just the outward appearance
of compliant.
SPEAKER_05 (03:41):
I think that's important because sometimes a
kid can look regulated, butreally emotionally they're
dysregulated and they couldstill be being obedient or
compliant, but they're feelingemotionally dysregulated on the
inside.
So true.
SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
So can you walk us through the arousal continuum
and how it explains differentstates that kids experience
throughout the day?
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
The arousal continuum is a concept that we
on our campus learned from Dr.
Bruce Perry.
And it involves five states: calm, alert, alarm, fear, and (04:07):
undefined
terror.
And the concept is thatbasically each one of us at all
times throughout the day issomewhere on that arousal
continuum.
If you are calm, you may simplybe watching TV.
It doesn't take a lot of effortfrom you.
You're paying attention, butyou're not being called upon to
(04:27):
interact.
Alert would be maybe you arelistening to information in a
sermon at church or in aclassroom situation where you
can be more interactive, you'repaying attention.
If you are asked a question, youcould answer that question.
Alarm would be something thatgets your attention that tells
your brain, hey, you need to payattention to that.
And for example, if you weredriving to work and you noticed
(04:51):
smoke and a small fire on theside of the road, your brain
would say, Hey, pay attention tothat because we may be in
danger.
As you get closer, if that firestarted to spread, you may
become fearful about yoursafety.
And then if there was anexplosion, you might go straight
into terror.
Different triggers cause eachone of us to move up and down
(05:11):
that arousal continuumthroughout the day.
So that what triggers one personto alarm, fear, or terror,
another person might not respondto.
So it's very individualized.
But also where you are on thatarousal continuum correlates to
where you are in your brain.
If you are calm or alert, youcan be in your cortex, which is
the rational thinking part ofyour brain.
(05:33):
It allows you to plan ahead, toremember, to have calm
conversation.
Once you are at alert or alarm,you start to move down into your
limbic system, which is theemotional part of your brain.
Fear or terror would push youdown through your diencephalon,
the survival brain, all the wayto the brainstem.
And at that point, you can'treally access your cortex.
(05:54):
You don't have the ability tohave a calm conversation because
you're in the lower parts ofyour brain.
SPEAKER_00 (05:59):
So then what is state-dependent functioning and
why is it critical to understandthis in parenting and
caregiving?
SPEAKER_03 (06:05):
So state-dependent functioning is the idea that we
will we function based off ofwhat part of our brain is most
engaged at that time.
And so if you were walkingacross the road and weren't p
necessarily paying attentionlike you should, and you turned
and saw a vehicle coming yourway, your brain would automatic
j automatically shift into thatterror state and you would act
(06:28):
accordingly to, you know, tothat, to that function, jump out
of the way, probably beforeyou're even aware of it.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
Aaron Ross Powell Sometim of their brain and we
expect them to act as if they'rein their cortex.
We have expectations that sayyou should be able to behave as
if your brain was calm.
But if they're not calm, thatdetermines and and dictates
their functioning.
SPEAKER_03 (06:50):
Aaron Powell And so if we try to engage a person who
is operating in one of thesekind of lower brain regions
because they're in just in thatstate of fear or terror or
alarm.
And we're trying to engage themassuming that they are in a calm
state, it's just not going towork.
They're not, they don't haveaccess to that part of their
brain at that time.
SPEAKER_05 (07:09):
Aaron Powell Yeah, you're gonna end up escalating
or having a kid totally shutdown or it's not gonna be
productive.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:16):
And I think sometimes we're not aware of
what state that child is inbecause we're not triggered in
the same way.
So maybe it's a child who hastest anxiety or performance
anxiety, and the teacher asksthem to come up and solve a math
problem on the board in front ofall their peers, and they just
completely shut down.
Either they withdraw, they getreally quiet, they won't respond
to the teacher, or they stand upand start yelling and throw in a
(07:38):
book.
And and the adult response isthat was such a small thing to
ask you what's wrong with you.
Instead of understanding thatfor that child, your request put
them lower in their brain andfurther down that arousal
continuum, it's not necessarilya conscious choice on the child
of the part, on the part of thechild.
SPEAKER_00 (07:58):
So how does hyperarousal and dissociation
affect a child's ability tolearn, connect, and make
decisions?
SPEAKER_02 (08:04):
You know, there's kind of a continuum between
being hyper-aroused, betweendissociation.
And commonly we talk aboutthings like fight or flight,
right?
And so when a child is ishyper-aroused, we tend to think
of that as the fight.
In my example, that's the kidwho stood up and threw a book
and cursed at the teacher and,you know, ran out of the room
rather than do the math problem.
Disassociation or flight is thekid who just checks out.
(08:27):
They just withdraw into theirselves.
They don't respond.
And so depending on what thetrigger is, you may see a child
go one of those two ways.
Some kids tend to be morehyper-aroused or where almost
every reaction is met withfight.
And some kids tend to be moredissociative or flight, have
flight tendencies.
SPEAKER_03 (08:46):
And those fight, flight, freeze brain states are
there for a reason.
They're our brain is equippedwith that for survival.
And so when a when a child isoperating in one of these
survival brain states, they'rethey don't have access to the
parts of their brain that areready to connect or learn.
SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
Yeah.
If kids are in the lower part oftheir brain, they're almost
physically prevented fromlearning because learning takes
place in the cortex, consciouslearning in a classroom, right?
We learn a lot of things in thelower parts of our brain, like
for example, how to keepourselves safe.
But if we're talking aboutclassroom learning or a
conversation that we're havingwith one of our own kids where
we're saying, hey, do youunderstand what you did wrong
(09:25):
and how you need to behave inthe future?
That child can't absorb thatinformation or respond to you
unless they're in their cortex.
SPEAKER_03 (09:32):
In a sense, those lower brain states are they're
pretty simple fight, flight, orfreeze.
Yeah.
And so to be in one of thosebrain states, a child doesn't
really need to be creativenecessarily.
And so that their functional IQis is lower in in those regions
because they just don't needthat.
That's kind of a waste ofenergy.
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
When we think about regulation, I think oftentimes
the hyperarousal, we're prettygood at understanding and seeing
that we have to calm kids down.
But I think on the other side,the dissociation, I don't think
people realize you have toregulate kids up when they're
dissociating.
Can you guys talk about thatmaybe a little bit?
SPEAKER_02 (10:07):
Adults like compliant children.
And sometimes compliance ismissed because it's
dissociating, right?
So so you may have a child who'sjust as dysregulated as the one
who can't sit still or be quietin a classroom, but they're
quiet, and we're we're missingthat.
And so those kids have needstoo, but sometimes it's
overlooked.
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
So what are some common misinterpretations of
dysregulated behavior that leadparents to discipline instead of
connect?
SPEAKER_03 (10:32):
I think assuming that a child can access the
cortex and to to try to useverbal language and reason to
try to help a child regulate isa is a big misconception.
Um, and uh and results infrustration on the parts of the
parents.
SPEAKER_05 (10:47):
I think often the parents think that it's
intentional, like this behavioris on purpose, it's intentional,
and we're missing that there'ssomething going on that's
triggered that behavior.
SPEAKER_02 (10:57):
I agree.
I think as adults, we oftendefault to any misbehavior is
simple, willful defiance, thatthe child is actually in
control, but they are choosingto misbehave in this moment or
push our buttons in this momentinstead of understanding that
more often than not, that issimply not the situation.
That child is in a lower brainstate.
(11:17):
Remembering too that a child'scortex isn't fully developed.
We have a lot of expectations, Iwould say, especially of
teenagers, for them to accesstheir cortex and behave in a way
that makes sense to us as adultswithout remembering that that
cortex isn't going to be fullydeveloped till they're between
25 and 30 years old.
Right.
And so are kids ever will fullydefine.
(11:40):
Yes, 100%.
All of us in this room areparents.
So we have certainly seen thatin our own kiddos, right?
But more often than not, we needto be curious about that brain
state and about what's beengoing on in their world.
And I think that you will besurprised at how most behavior
is simply a request for helpfrom an adult rather than an
(12:03):
attempt to push an adult'sbuttons.
SPEAKER_05 (12:06):
I think sometimes too, like, and this was one
thing that I had to learn was itit doesn't have to be a big
thing either that's causing themto be dysregulated.
It could be are you thirsty?
Are you dehydrated?
Do you need your to drink?
Are you hungry?
When was the last time you had asnack?
And that can be enough to getthem regulated.
(12:26):
It it doesn't always have to besomething big that is triggering
a a behavior or dissociating.
Yeah, that's a good point,Julie.
unknown (12:35):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_03 (12:35):
And that those lower brain regions control those
physical functions like heart,you know, heart rate, hunger,
feelings of hunger, sleep, thosekinds of things.
So it makes sense that if achild doesn't have, you know,
sufficient reward in thoseareas, then those that part of
the brain is gonna kind of fireup and say, hey, pay attention
to me.
SPEAKER_00 (12:55):
So why is it so hard for some children to just calm
down when they're dysregulated?
SPEAKER_02 (12:59):
Aaron Powell I would say it's almost physically
impossible.
What you're saying is, hey, Isee that you're in the lower
part of your brain, justimmediately go to your cortex,
right?
And that that it just doesn'twork that way, right?
Even for us as adults, if youever have been told by another
person, calm down, you know foryour own self that that was not
helpful and actually may haveendangered the life of the
(13:21):
person who verbalized that toyou.
You may have made it worse,right?
And so you're asking not just abehavioral impossibility, but a
physical impossibility.
It's also important to know thatchildren don't come with an
understanding of how toregulate, right?
We teach children to regulatewhen once they're born, right?
And throughout throughout theirlives.
(13:43):
An example I give frequently intraining is that, you know, for
nine months in the womb, aninfant hears mother's heartbeat,
right?
So it's rhythmic, it'srepetitive, it's patterned, and
it's calming and soothing tothat infant.
Once an infant is born and theycry, what do we do?
We pick them up, we swaddlethem, we rock them, we pad them.
Rhythmic, repetitive, patternedintervention.
(14:04):
And so we co-regulate with thatchild.
And then as they grow intotoddlers and older children,
we're helping them learn skillsand techniques to regulate.
We don't just say, go to yourroom and regulate on your own.
We have to teach it and we haveto model it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
So when it comes to regulation, we utilize the model
of regulate, relate, and thenreason.
Can you break down that modelfor us and why it's so
important?
Go in that order.
SPEAKER_05 (14:29):
If we are functioning in the lower part of
our brain, we can't reason.
So we have to become regulated.
We have to be able to move upinto the um higher functioning
parts of our brain, back intoour cortex.
So regulation has to come firstbecause you're not going to be
able to reason withoutregulation.
SPEAKER_03 (14:48):
Yeah, in a way, it kind of regulate, relate, reason
kind of mirrors that model ofthe brain that we refer to so
often, where regulate refers tomaybe having well-being in the
lower parts of the brain.
Relate happens in that midbrain,and then reasoning is what goes
on in the frontal, you know, thecortex part of the brain.
SPEAKER_02 (15:07):
And anything that that's rhythmic, repetitive,
repetitive, or patterned is whathelps your lower brain regulate,
right?
So that could be going for awalk, listening to music,
playing with a fidget, playing avideo game, bouncing a ball back
and forth, rocking in a rockingchair, right?
Anything that's rhythmic,repetitive, or patterned.
Only once you're regulated andthat child is regulated can you
(15:29):
move up to the next level ofrelate, which really is about
relationship, right?
Being in relationship with thatother person to whatever extent
is appropriate, right?
Is this your child or a spouseor a neighbor, somebody you go
to church with?
Is it a coworker or a boss?
You know, so there are very manydifferent types of relationship.
But in order for you to resolvethis issue, there has to be a
(15:50):
relationship between you and theother person that you both
value, right?
So you're extending safetythrough relationship to that
other person.
Only then can you get up in thecortex where you can reason.
And as adults, so often wedefault to reason first, right?
We want to jump in and give thelecture and talk to the child
about what they did wrong andwhat they should do differently
(16:13):
the next time.
But that's pointless if you havefailed to regulate and do it in
the context of relationship,right?
Once you've provided thatfoundation, then you can have
that conversation cortex tocortex.
SPEAKER_05 (16:25):
I think you said such an important thing too,
that sometimes we think it'sjust our child that is
dysregulated.
And many times it's both of usthat are dysregulated, or it
could be me that's dysregulatedthat's causing my child to
become dysregulated.
And so I think we have toremember that it's not always
(16:46):
our child that is thedysregulated.
Amen.
SPEAKER_00 (16:50):
So that's a great segue.
So how can adults accidentallymake things worse by reasoning
and lecturing before a child isregulated?
SPEAKER_02 (16:57):
You remember the Charlie Brown uh cartoons,
right?
And Charlie Brown sits in aclassroom with a teacher and and
all he hears is wah, wah, wah,wah, wah, right.
He he can't process any wordsthat are coming out of that
teacher's mouth.
And so, in the same way, when wewant to jump into reasoning or
lecturing, a child who's in thelower parts of their brain, wah,
(17:18):
wah, wah is all they're gonnahear.
You know, they just don't havecapacity to process that
information, which in turn makesus frustrated if we feel like
they're not listening andthey're not responding in the
way that we expect.
And that tends to escalate thesituation and make it worse,
Suzanne says from pastexperience as a parent.
SPEAKER_05 (17:37):
Josh talks about this in a training that he does
and where a lecture feels goodfor us.
It's unproductive.
It does.
SPEAKER_00 (17:45):
I like to lecture my daughters.
It's it's good to stand on mysoapbox and let them have it.
SPEAKER_03 (17:50):
I really like what Julie said earlier about adults
being subject to thesestate-dependent functioning as
well.
So, you know, we can't justassume that it's only our
children who are dealing withthis.
This is just a part of all ofus.
It's a part of our bodies.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Aaron Powell, so what role does co-regulation
play and how can a parent becomea calming presence when their
child is overwhelmed?
SPEAKER_02 (18:10):
A phrase that we use commonly here on our campus is
it takes a calm brain to calm abrain, right?
So if you've got a child orchildren who are dysregulated
and you come in with a calmbrain, you have more opportunity
to influence them to be calm.
If they're dysregulated and youcome in and you become
dysregulated and you start toyell, you're just adding fuel to
(18:33):
the fire.
That happens because ofsomething in our brain called
mirror neurons.
And we have lots of differentkinds of neurons, but mirror
neurons mean that we will tendto mirror the state of the
person in front of us.
And so if someone's really calm,their mirror neurons will impact
mine and I will start to have tohave a sense of calm.
If somebody's really escalated,especially if I'm not careful
(18:55):
and aware of that, I can findmyself escalating right along
with them.
The best example I can give youof mirror neurons is yawning.
So what do we always say?
If you see somebody yawn, we sayit's what?
Contagious.
It's contagious, it's catching,right?
And so that's your mirrorneurons if you catch that yawn.
Sometimes you just say the wordand people start to yawn.
(19:15):
But that's a great example ofhow that works.
It's not a conscious choice.
You're not, you know, intendingto escalate.
But again, if you're caught offguard, you may escalate right
with that other person.
And so for kids, who should bethe calming presence?
It should be us.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:30):
Yeah.
I think that speaks to theimportance of self-care for, you
know, on the part of the parent.
They need to know what they cando to stay regulated, to be
present for their kids.
SPEAKER_00 (19:41):
So, how can caregivers identify their own
regulation levels beforeresponding to a dysregulated
child?
SPEAKER_02 (19:46):
I think you have to take a breath and step back and
kind of check in with yourself.
You know, one of the things Dr.
Perry talks about is putting amoment between impulse and
behavior, right?
So that that when you have thatimpulse.
And you act immediately,sometimes you make the wrong
choice, right?
And so, so we're trying toextend that moment between
(20:07):
impulse and behavior for ourkids.
That's something we're trying toteach them to do.
But it's so important for us todo that as well, so that we have
that impulse to yell or throwout a consequence that if we
could just put a moment of timein there, take a breath, you
know, and do whatever we need todo to return to a sense of
calmness so that we can respondto that child rather than just
(20:29):
react to whatever situation ishappening.
Now, obviously, there are timeswhere it's a safety issue and
you need to immediately jump in,but frequently we could give
ourselves a moment.
SPEAKER_05 (20:39):
I'm thinking about a day that you, Suzanne and I were
sewing together.
And I think we have to listen tothe people around us too.
Like if someone says, maybe youneed to take a break, we should
probably listen and take abreak.
Like Suzanne was helping me witha project and I was starting to
feel very overwhelmed by it.
And she said, you know what,we're just gonna go take a walk
(20:59):
around the block.
And we did, and it was just thejust the activity that I needed
to get myself back on track andrefocused and ready to tackle
the project again.
So I think that's the samething.
If if we aren't able torecognize it in ourselves, but
someone comes to us and says,Hey, maybe you need to take a
break or let's go for a walkthen.
SPEAKER_02 (21:19):
And I didn't I didn't say, Julie, go go walk
around the blocker by yourself,right?
But that co-regulation'simportant for us as adults too,
rather than just having toregulate on your own.
SPEAKER_03 (21:29):
Aaron Powell It seems that co-regulation almost
requires a sacrifice on the parton the part of the caregiver, uh
almost like a brain statesacrifice, like to pull somebody
out of those fear-terror partsof the brain, you can't
necessarily be calm.
You kind of have to like divedown into your own alarm system
to kind of do that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:48):
Aaron Powell So how does a trauma history or sensory
processing issues, sensoryprocessing difficulty impact a
child's ability to stayregulated?
SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
Aaron Powell You know, when we think about that
arousal continuum, again, calm,alert, alarm, fear, and terror.
Most people live between calmand alert.
That's our normal state, right?
But when you've had a history oftrauma, then you tend to live
more between alert and alarm,right?
It could be anywhere on thatcontinuum.
So you have to think about yourown personal experiences or
(22:16):
those of your child.
But when you live at alert oralarm, boy, it's not very far to
terror, right?
You're already halfway there.
And so it could be a lessseemingly insignificant issue
that triggers you and puts youall the way to terror.
As opposed to somebody who livesbetween calm and alert, it may
take a bigger issue to push themtowards that opposite end of the
(22:38):
arousal continuum.
So trauma history plays a reallybig role in state-dependent
functioning on where somebodylives, on what state that they
reside in on a regular, on aregular basis.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
I think you guys all mentioned in the question of the
day that was kind ofenvironmental overload that kind
of was your trigger.
And I think about sensoryprocessing, how often we just
get overwhelmed by sensoryissues that dysregulate us.
And I don't think people payattention to a lot of that as
much.
I remember when I used to be anon-call supervisor, oftentimes
I'd get calls to homes that werejust out of control,
(23:11):
dysregulated.
And what I would do before I'dgo talk to anyone, I would just
go turn the TV down, turn thelights down, have the kids turn
their music down.
And just in the act of doingthose things, regulating the
sensory, turning the sensoryinput down, it just naturally
calmed the environment down.
So I think being aware of yourenvironment and seeing kind of
what sensory issues might bedistracting or dysregulating a
(23:32):
kid is a good idea as well.
So why is it important to lookbeyond the behavior and ask what
is this behavior communicating?
SPEAKER_03 (23:38):
I think it maybe it informs us or helps to inform us
where this child is coming from,like what part of the brain
they're they're coming from.
And then that indicates to us whow we can approach the
situation in a in a way that'sgonna help and not make it
worse.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
You know, we try to act from the concept that all
behavior indicates need, right?
Especially misbehavior, right?
And so just like Julie said, youcan look at a child who seems
dysregulated and wonder whatkind of emotional problem
they're having, and in reality,they just need a snack, right?
But but you know, if you cantrain yourself to see behavior
and go, wow, what's missing?
(24:14):
What's motivating that?
I know we've had kids, you know,do something to get in trouble
out here on campus before.
And a lot of times whensupervisors intervene, the first
thing they say is, do you need asnack?
You know, let's go to the snackbar and get a drink.
And sometimes staff wouldrespond, oh, you're gonna reward
that misbehavior with takingthem to the snack bar, you know,
and and in reality that's nottrue, right?
(24:36):
But if their blood sugar hasdipped and I can give them
something to drink and a snackto have and get them back on an
even keel, then we're gonna havea productive conversation about
what that behavior was.
That behavior may just go awayon its own because they had a
snack, right?
And and so I just think that'sso important is to always be
curious about what need behavioris expressing.
SPEAKER_03 (24:59):
When a child comes in for counseling, the first
thing we do is offer them asnack and water to address that.
If that's if that's an issuewhen they walk through the
doors, it's not by the timethey're ready to go.
SPEAKER_02 (25:11):
I'll tell you that my my first year here 25 years
ago, we had five boys who ranaway and they were they left in
in the middle of the night.
We couldn't find them.
You know, at at 6 30 a.m.
the next morning, as soon asit's light, we're out looking
for those kids.
And and hours later we finallyfind them.
We turn a corner and they appearrelieved to see us, right?
(25:32):
They they walk right to us.
My boss got out of the truck andsaid, You know, are you safe?
When's the last time you hadanything to eat or drink?
And he's passing out bottles ofwater.
And I stood with my mouth openbecause my first instinct was to
go, Where have you been?
We've been looking for you allnight.
You know, like like it was afear response.
I was afraid for their safety,but his response showed them
(25:54):
care and concern.
And that is not what they weregonna get had I spoke first.
And so that was a big lesson forme about meeting their needs.
And and I shut my mouth as soonas he opened his, and I was
really glad that he spoke firstand was able to extend that care
and concern in instead of myapproach.
SPEAKER_03 (26:12):
It's so cool to think what that act did to
further relationship betweenthose kids and the caregivers on
ranch.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
So, what might be some signs that a child is
moving back to regulation andhow can we celebrate or
reinforce those moments?
SPEAKER_03 (26:25):
I think if we remember that regulate, relate
reason model, if we notice thata child is showing more signs of
being able to relate, we knowwe're going in the right
direction.
That's good.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
Yeah.
I think sometimes kids also canidentify that they're
dysregulated, right?
Or that they're moving towardsregulation.
And so I think when we can pointthat out in a supportive way,
that they start to connectstates with physically, how does
that feel in my body, right?
So if we were even able to say,I see that you can't sit still
(26:56):
and you're really fidgeting, youhave a stressed look on your
face, do you feel dysregulated,right?
We name it for them.
And then as we see they're ableto sit calm and they're taking
some drinks of water, they'remaking eye contact with us.
You know, it seems like you'refeeling more regulated.
We're just noticing thosethings, pointing, pointing those
things out, but do it doing itin a supportive way.
SPEAKER_03 (27:18):
Maybe we can point out the things that help them
get regulated too, so that theycan put them in their toolbox
and recall them next timethey're they're feeling
dysregulated.
SPEAKER_05 (27:27):
I think too, once kids start, like when you name
it, kids start like connectingall of those dots.
And then eventually they'll beable to say, okay, feeling
better, I can talk now, or I'mready.
And they will be able toinitiate that on their own as
well.
I used to have a kid that in ourhome that would get frustrated
and run out of the house.
And he would always go to thelittle baseball diamond to the
(27:49):
dug sit in the dugout behindStephen's home.
So I would call a supervisor tocome over and I'd drive over and
get him, and I'd say, You needto get in the vehicle, and he'd
say, I'm not talking.
And say, You don't have to talk,but you need to come with me.
I can't just leave you out herein the dark.
And so he would get in thevehicle and just the drive would
start helping to regulate him.
And pretty soon he'd just, youknow, the rest of the way home
(28:11):
would be chatting up, what madehim so frustrated.
And so it got to the point whereI'd just pull up to the dugout,
he'd come get in, we'd we'ddrive a few, you know, up and
down the main road, and then ina few minutes he'd be ready to
talk.
But he just he knew I can't havea conversation right now.
I need some time.
So he just needed that space andsome regulation.
SPEAKER_03 (28:31):
That side-by-side environment, great for
co-regulation too.
SPEAKER_02 (28:35):
We talk about people who are internal processors and
people who are externalprocessors, right?
And an internal processor issomebody who kind of wants to
withdraw into their self andthink about what just happened
and they're not immediatelyready to discuss it.
Whereas an external processorwants to talk about it right
now, right?
You know, and they process byverbalizing what's going on to
(28:56):
another person.
And some of the biggestconflicts happen between
internal or external, right?
So it's really important to knowhow you process, but also how
your child or your spouse oreven your boss, how do they
process and then give space andrespect to that person's
attempt.
So if Julie had said, not onlydo you have to get in the car,
but you have to talk about itright now, that would have made
(29:18):
things worse, right?
But instead, she said, you know,for safety reasons, you need to
be here with me, but we can bequiet.
Right.
And so I think that's soimportant that we allow kids
some time and space.
Maybe they do need to go sit intheir room and be alone for a
little bit.
It's not that we're never gonnatalk about it, but let's give
them space to regulate and comeback up in the higher parts of
(29:39):
their brain.
It may also be that we need torecognize, hey, I'm not ready to
talk about it.
And we say to that child, hey, Ineed a few moments to calm down
for my brain to regulate.
You know, would you mind if I gosit and have a cup of coffee?
And when I feel like I'm readyto talk, I'll come to you.
And the amazing thing is thatwhen we extend that respect to
our kids, they'll return it tous.
SPEAKER_03 (29:59):
And it models to them that that's an option.
SPEAKER_05 (30:02):
I think too, it's important if we send a kid to
their room, like maybe you needto take a time out in your room
or do you want some space inyour room?
Then we don't just leave themthere.
We we check in with them or weeven just a walk by and a peek
in lets them know you're stillthere, you're ready, and they're
ready.
(30:22):
And yeah, so we talk about thatum in training sometimes too.
That you know, don't don't senda kid to their room and then
just leave them there feelingalone.
SPEAKER_02 (30:31):
Yeah.
I'm gonna come back and check inon you in 15 minutes and yeah,
and you know, and that check-inis, hey, do you feel like you're
ready to talk?
Nope, not yet.
Okay, I'll be back 15 minutes,right?
We want to make sure they knowthey can't avoid the
conversation.
Right.
But we we would prefer to havethat when they're in their
cortex.
SPEAKER_00 (30:49):
Well, that wraps up another episode where we tried
to regulate ourselves, try tohelp you relate to your kids and
reason with reality.
If any of that made sense withyou or at least made you feel
slightly more sane, considerleaving us a five-star review.
It's free, painless, and oddlysatisfying.
Share this episode with afriend, preferably one that
still thinks they can logictheir way out of a kid with
going through a meltdown.
(31:10):
Until next time, remember, youmight have to loan out your
frontal lobes faded to make sureyou remember to get them back.
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about CalFarley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
calfarley.org.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
(31:38):
Cal Farley's.
Thank you for spending your timewith us and have a blessed day.
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