October 14, 2025 • 41 mins
Ever feel the pull toward “because I said so” when everything is spinning? We take a hard, honest look at authoritarian parenting traps—how they work, why they’re tempting, and what they cost. We unpack the drill sergeant mindset, Sunday Best performance, image-first “ice sculpture” homes, coach-style lecturing, goal-line outcomes, trophy pressure in youth sports, lockdown limits, and ruler-only households that confuse fear with respect.
We draw a sharp line between structure and control: structure creates safety through clear boundaries, reasons, and predictability; authoritarian control chases quick compliance but undermines trust, self-confidence, and emotional growth. You’ll hear practical strategies you can use today—explaining the why behind rules, shifting from compliance to cooperation, giving graded freedoms to build trust, and responding to mistakes with repair and learning instead of shame. We also dig into the role of social media and comparison, the hidden costs of outcome-only parenting, and how to nurture emotional intelligence so kids can navigate gray areas, conflict, and independence.
Healthy authority sits at the intersection of relationship and rules. We show how to invite input without surrendering leadership, set expectations that fit your child, and evolve freedom as they demonstrate responsibility. If you’ve felt convicted by a sideline lecture, a results-first mindset, or the urge to lock everything down, this conversation offers a map back to connection—where character outlasts trophies, and cooperation outperforms control.
If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs the encouragement, and leave a review to help more families find Brain-Based Parenting.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys
Ranch podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions, utilizing theknowledge, experience, and
(00:21):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to
offer.
Now here is your host, CalFarley Staff Development
Coordinator, Joshua Sprock.
SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
Welcome back.
Today we're going to continueour discussion on parent traps,
focusing on authoritarianparenting style.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
To do that today, I'm again joined by Suzanne
Wright, Vice President ofTraining and Intervention.
Emily Tennyson, ClinicalIntervention Specialist.
SPEAKER_04 (00:44):
Sam Cerna, Assistant Administrator of Residential
Communities.
SPEAKER_03 (00:47):
All right, so let's start off with our question of
the day.
So what's something that yourparents let you do that you
would not allow kids to dotoday?
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
I think my parents let me roam all over the
community without any knowledgeabout where I was.
You know, I didn't have a cellphone and there was no way to
keep track of me.
And and I was probably withanother group of kids, but you
know, we just don't really letour kids do things like that
today.
And so part of that was not asmuch a difference in parenting
as a difference in 30 years'time.
SPEAKER_03 (01:15):
My girls on their phones have app that tracks like
where they are, so I know wherethey are 24 hours a day, seven
days a week.
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
My parents never knew where I was.
No.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
I have thought long and hard about this question,
and I don't know what to say.
My parents had a verystructured, possibly strict
household when it came to rules.
I don't know what I would let mykids do that I was allowed to
do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (01:36):
I think I'm aligned with Suzanne.
I think that's probably thebiggest thing that I got to do
that maybe I didn't let my kidsdo.
Part of it's because where theygrew up.
But I had to just kind of go, Ihad boundaries, but I could kind
of go around and be gone most ofthe day.
As long as I'm within a whistleof my my mom whistles, we had to
be able we had to be able tohear and come back.
SPEAKER_03 (01:53):
Mine was helmets.
I never wore a helmet ever.
Never even thought about it.
Like my girls, I'm as discussedon earlier podcasts, I'm the
helicopter parent.
And yeah, they had to wearhelmets, elbow guards.
I think one time I even wrappedthem in a with a couple pillows
when they're learning how toroller skate.
Yeah, that's that that'd bemine.
SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
Wow.
In 20 years, we're gonna getyour girls in here when their
parents were gonna interviewthem.
SPEAKER_04 (02:15):
You know what I got to do though?
I did get to stand up in themiddle of a single cab truck
with no seatbelt on and allthat.
Oh yeah.
That was a different time.
I didn't I'm dating us, uh Josh.
No, that was the best.
That was way fun.
SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
I would not allow my kids to do that.
No.
All right, so we're gonna betalking about authoritarian
parenting traps today.
So when you hear the termauthoritarian parenting, what
comes to mind?
SPEAKER_02 (02:35):
Control, strictness, rigid rules, no room for
negotiation.
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
It's my way or the highway.
SPEAKER_04 (02:43):
It's uh not a democracy.
SPEAKER_03 (02:45):
Not a democracy.
Yep.
You say jump and your kid sayshow high, right?
You think authoritarianparenting was more common in the
past generations than it istoday?
SPEAKER_02 (02:53):
I d I do think that.
I I think when you look at, youknow, generational differences
and you think about the greatestgeneration, that is definitely
where the father was the head ofthe household and what he said
went.
And there wasn't, you know,children wouldn't have been
defiant or talked back orquestioned that father's
authority.
And I think things havedefinitely evolved and changed,
(03:15):
some better, some worse over theyears.
SPEAKER_04 (03:17):
Yeah, I could see the differences between like my
great my great-grandparents, mygrandparents, and then my mom
had a bit different view.
In fact, I think she told us atone point where she said, Hey,
we were we were everybody was sostrict.
I'm trying to give you guys alittle bit more rope.
And even then I felt like wewere pretty structured home, but
she also wasn't they had a lotof rituals who were here from a
(03:38):
Hispanic culture, a lot ofrituals, and my mom was kinda a
little bit more liberal aboutsome of those things, but it
wasn't too liberal.
But it was way different thanwhat I could see with my
grandparents.
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
I think anytime we're negative about the younger
generation, we have to rememberwho raised them.
Right?
And and and that we all raiseour own kids in response or
reaction to the way that we wereraised.
So it all plays a part.
SPEAKER_03 (04:00):
So is there a difference or how is being
structured or firm differentthan being authoritarian?
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
I think being structured, you have created
safety through boundaries andpredictability, whereas being
firm and from an authoritarianstandpoint is harshness or
compliance.
Removes that relational piece.
SPEAKER_03 (04:20):
Yeah, I think there's a big difference between
compliance and cooperation.
You can have pretty good strictfirm structured routine and talk
about it and explain what whythe reasons are and all that,
and you get cooperation.
But if you just tell someone youhave to do it because they have
to do it, that doesn't typicallygo very well.
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
Yeah, because I said to.
SPEAKER_03 (04:36):
Because I said so.
Yeah.
Um so how do kids typicallyrespond to overly strict
environments?
SPEAKER_02 (04:41):
I think in not in every situation, but in many
situations it leads to rebellionor sneakiness.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
Or I was thinking while some become sneaky, others
become passive.
SPEAKER_04 (04:51):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I think it well, you'retalking about response, but I do
think that maybe there's uh likeshe said, passive passiveness.
I mean, or passive compliance oralong with the sneakiness,
you're good in some situationsand you can be sneaky in other
situations.
Well, also I think it it affectsself-confidence in children
because you know you're justbeing told what to do all the
time.
And so you don't well, you don'thave to think for yourself, so
(05:13):
you don't think for yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (05:14):
I remember when I graduated from high school, a
lot of my friends who were invery, very strict homes,
authoritarian home homes, whenthey went to college, they went
crazy because there wasn'tanyone to keep them under
control anymore.
And they really, reallystruggled not having that person
with their thumb on them all thetime.
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
Yeah, we talked about this in the last podcast,
you know, the difference betweenhelping a child develop internal
self-control or being externallycontrolled by the parent.
And if you're thinking in termsof, you know, parenting for the
long game, preparing your childto live independently outside of
your supervision, then you wantthem to develop their own
internal self-control.
But in a in a very strictauthoritarian environment, it is
(05:54):
all about the external control.
You're you will obey me becauseI say you will.
And the kids never have thatopportunity to fall and make a
mistake and learn from thatmistake or to develop that
internal self-control.
SPEAKER_03 (06:06):
All right, let's start talking about our
authoritarian parent traps.
The first one I want to talkabout is the drill sergeant
trap.
Commands are issued, complianceis expected, and there's very
little room for discussion,negotiation, or empathy.
Kids may behave, but it's oftenout of fear or conditioning.
So, how do how would youdescribe this style of
parenting?
What does it look like?
SPEAKER_02 (06:25):
I think that title says it all, it's the drill
sergeant.
Right?
When when young adults are inmilitary boot camp, they are
expected to give immediatecompliance to whatever issue was
just ordered, and there's noquestioning, there is no
discussion.
And and I do think there areparents that try to run their
(06:45):
home in the same way.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
Parents are more like a boss rather than a
nurturer.
SPEAKER_03 (06:50):
So, what might be some common behaviors that would
come from this style ofparenting?
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Fear-based compliance would be one.
SPEAKER_04 (06:56):
Also the opposite of rebellion.
And we talked about that.
I mean, some some noteverybody's built the same, and
they I especially once they getolder and they a little bit more
capable and a little bit morephysical, if they're not afraid
of you of treat you the same,it's possible.
SPEAKER_02 (07:09):
Yeah, most of us are surprised when our kids outgrow
us.
I think also for the parenting,for the parent, this is
exhausting.
Oh, I would think right.
It's exhausting to to have to bein control of all things at all
times.
It's it's a lot.
SPEAKER_03 (07:25):
I wonder if some people parents do this because
of the short-term reward of it.
That it in the in the momentit's a lot easier to keep your
thumb on the kid.
But I think you're right,Suzanne.
In the long term, you gotta keepyour thumb on them all the time.
Yeah.
Because what happens if you takeyour thumb off?
SPEAKER_04 (07:38):
And you also gotta consider, you know, what they
learned and why they're doingthis.
And you know, we talked about itin the last podcast.
This also can work here, is thatthe sometimes society is
expecting a certain behavior outof kid where you're this or
that, where you're at a certainplace.
So this is how you control it,right?
You control you control the kid,therefore you hopefully control
(07:59):
their behavior.
And so sometimes it also is justmaybe out of the parents'
necessity or lack of skill orjust don't don't know.
Also, they could have beenparented that way.
SPEAKER_02 (08:08):
I can remember growing up, we sat, you know, in
the same pew every Sunday, butwe sat behind a family of four
little boys who sat motionless,facing towards the front of the
church, perfectly all church.
And it and I don't know whatthey did.
You know, I don't know if theirchildren were just naturally
calm, you know, but they were soquote unquote well-behaved.
(08:29):
And then I had a little brotherwho was like a squirmer and you
know, he didn't make a sound orhe talked.
And I think that my parents felta lot of pressure in comparison
to these still well-behavedchildren in front of us, you
know, and I think that that isthat is probably even more
magnified today with socialmedia is that we're in a
(08:49):
position constantly ofcomparison.
We compare our parenting stylesto the parenting styles of
others.
We compare, you know, the wayour children behave to the way
other kids behave.
And I do think for a lot ofparents, they they want to go
out and for publicly theirchildren to behave well because
it's a personal reflection onthem.
In all honesty, that's almost animpossible standard for most of
(09:12):
us, for most kids.
SPEAKER_03 (09:13):
Which really leads to the next trap, the Sunday
Best trap.
SPEAKER_02 (09:16):
There it is.
SPEAKER_03 (09:16):
Family emphasizes religious behavior and outward
morality, how they dress, howthey talk, how they act at
church, while neglecting grace,connection, or any authentic
spiritual growth.
Kids may learn to performspiritually without actually
developing a relationship withChrist personally.
So, how does this parenting traplook?
SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
Well, I think this is a trap that a lot of people
fall into, not just as parents,but I think, you know, just a
lot of people put their bestfoot forward and, you know, may
attend church on a Sundaymorning and maybe even Wednesday
night, but but it doesn'tpermeate their lives.
And so if that's how we are asadults, then that's really all
we have to impart to our kids.
(09:56):
I think you're gonna you'regonna see that the children have
that same depth or shallownessof faith that that their parents
do.
SPEAKER_03 (10:04):
So what might be some common behaviors that would
result from this style ofparenting?
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
Spiritual performance or a lot of shame
when struggling.
Because you're not looking apartnecessarily.
SPEAKER_03 (10:14):
I think during times of struggle and hardship, this
would be a very difficult timefor kids and families who have
this style that they wouldn'thave any of the the depth that
you talked about.
It would be very shallow andprobably maybe even fall away
from their faith because ofthat.
SPEAKER_04 (10:27):
Yeah, I've known adults who who just did like you
said, didn't they didn't go tochurch anymore after they became
adults for themselves becausethey felt maybe that God was a
mean person or that maybe it wasjust false because we act this
way at church, but we don't actthis way at home and what I'm
seeing isn't what I'm readingkind of thing.
You know, I I didn't I don'tknow.
I think every faith isdifferent, and I'm not so I'm
not gonna get into that.
(10:47):
But and but I think uh it's wellintentioned, right?
And a lot of it's again for showfor others, right?
We're trying to hey, we gottaact right, we gotta do right.
And I think there's some valueto that.
Oh, yeah.
I remember, you know, somebody'sgotta teach me how to act in in
places, and I I think that'sokay.
It's just, you know, sometimeslike I said, it just creates the
opposite effect of what youwant.
SPEAKER_02 (11:04):
I think sometimes, you know, as a parent, the
hardest place to go and admitthat you're struggling is to
your church family.
Right?
Hope hopefully that's not thecase, but I just think in in
reality, that's sometimes a hardplace to be real or to be
vulnerable because you are youare afraid of judgment.
And so hopefully, you know, aspeople in a church, we
(11:26):
understand that that's whereshould people people should feel
the safest, right?
And the ability to ask for helpor say I'm struggling or this
happened in our family, right?
But it it's hard.
SPEAKER_03 (11:36):
All right, let's move on to the ice sculpture
trap.
Everything looks perfect on theoutside, but because parents
prioritize the image of thefamily, the child, while
emotional warmth orvulnerability is lacking,
emotions are often hidden oreven discouraged.
So what would this parentingstyle look like?
SPEAKER_02 (11:52):
You know, my first thought is that like this is the
Instagram style of parenting.
You know, just because so manypeople put put a show on social
media.
And I always enjoy it whensomeone, when someone,
especially who has a a sizablesocial media following, says,
Hey, you know, here's what yousaw in this Instagram post, and
let me open the door to thisbedroom where we shoved
(12:13):
everything that was in the, youknow, all the stuff that was in
the living room.
We shoved it in there and thenwe made this post that looks
like our house is perfect, butit's not, right?
But I think that again, itthere's so much social pressure.
And we've talked about socialpressure on teenagers, but wow,
it's it's hard on adults too.
I personally feel like youngmothers are under incredible
(12:34):
pressure to always look perfectand always have a perfect home
and their children are dressedperfectly.
And I think that's that's just alot.
And you have this outer shell,but you may not have any
substance inside.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
Instagram or social media in general creates this
polished, poised idea of lifewhen authentic life is actually
messy.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
Yeah, yeah.
And and if you know anybody verywell, you see that they have
messy parts of their life too.
That's not usually what we post,but there's a lot of messy.
SPEAKER_03 (13:05):
So, what might be some common behaviors that kids
may exhibit because of thisstyle of parenting?
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
My first thought is people pleasing.
SPEAKER_03 (13:11):
Yeah.
I wonder how much emotionalwarmth they're gonna have and
how much relationship seekingthey're gonna have because
that's been ignored as well.
SPEAKER_00 (13:19):
Or even perfectionism, too.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:21):
All right, here's a fun one the coach mom or coach
dad trap.
Parenting from the sidelines,but not really from the heart.
Parent takes the role ofperformance coach or life
strategist, a guide, direct,evaluate constantly.
But they often missopportunities to emotionally
connect and just be with a childwithout an agenda.
So, how would you describe thisstyle of parenting?
SPEAKER_02 (13:38):
I think it's well intentioned, but again, you may
miss some opportunities.
You know, we say out here on ourcampus a lot that crisis is
opportunity, right?
And so we see a kid struggling,and that's an opportunity to
have a conversation and leadthem to some insight and maybe
bring about change.
But I I think that you canoverdo that, right?
If I look back at, you know, myparenting style, I definitely
(14:01):
fall more into the traps we'rediscussing today than the ones
that we shared last week.
I felt like, you know, I nevermissed an opportunity to provide
a lesson and maybe sometimes Ishould have let it go.
I'm gonna encourage my daughtersto listen into this session.
No, you know that it that I feltresponsible to make sure that
there was always a lesson.
And I think maybe sometimes Icould have backed off and just
(14:24):
asked more questions andlectured a little less.
SPEAKER_04 (14:26):
You want your kids to do well.
You know, and I think that'sthat's the that's the point,
right?
And I could see myself doingsome of this stuff.
Like anybody who knows me said,Man, if people would just do
what I say, their life would begreat, right?
Like I already told you what todo, what's hard?
Why are you doing the opposite?
You know, yeah.
And I think it's because youknow, some of it we have
experience, and maybe we want tosave them from the pain of that
(14:48):
experience, not remembering thatthe pain of that experience is
what gave me the lesson to startwith.
Yeah.
And so maybe that maybe that'spart of the you know why parents
do this.
Just want I want you to I wantyou to do well out of that, then
I forget that I gotta give hugsand I gotta I gotta ask what's
the driving behavior behind oror what are you thinking and
getting their input and stuff.
This is to me similar to thelast one.
(15:09):
I was I was almost gonna make anexample about a coach, right?
That's that's training thisperfect athlete because maybe
they were an athlete, right?
So the same thing, right?
Life life is a coach to us.
I want to spare my kids lots ofpain.
Yeah, but that's the only waythey're gonna get stronger is
through that youth stress of oflearning and and making their
little mistakes.
SPEAKER_02 (15:28):
Yeah, rarely do people learn from other people's
mistakes, right?
Occasionally, and we all want togive that advice and for
somebody to learn because we didit the hard way, we're trying to
help them out.
It just really doesn't work thatway in most situations.
SPEAKER_04 (15:42):
Yeah, I even find myself doing that in leadership,
right?
I you know, I've done that job,right?
And they they're telling methese problems, and I'm just
like, well, you know, when Iwhen I did this, this is what I
used to do.
You know what I mean?
And I and I'm trying to getbetter about that because I just
want to help.
And so I I see that as similarto this, right?
They're but they're not myemployees, these kids, they're
they're my kids, and we we gottawe gotta also give them a bunch
(16:03):
of affection and and love.
SPEAKER_03 (16:04):
So it might be some common behaviors that would
result from this style ofparenting.
SPEAKER_02 (16:08):
I think sometimes it's real real easy for kids to
tune us out when they feel likelife is just a a lecture and to
seek affection from someone elsein their life, right?
If if if we're that overbearingperformance coach all the time
and they tune us out, they mayagain, they may seek a positive
or a negative relationship witha different adult to get that
need met.
SPEAKER_04 (16:28):
Yeah, that's where I was gonna go with this too, is I
I think that when I am just acoach, right, and I leave my
coach, I don't have to do thethings my coach says.
Right.
And and I thought of what what Isaid earlier about sometimes
I'll g I would give advice to mykids and they do the complete
opposite or don't listen, right?
Well, it's because maybe in thetime I'm not in a place where
maybe relationally they cantrust what I'm gonna say, right?
(16:50):
Because you know, you're you'realways right, dad, or you're
whatever, you know.
And so I think when they connectwith you and they trust you,
then maybe they're more likelyto to take some advice.
Because I think there are verypositive times to give advice,
especially when they ask you forit.
Maybe unsolicited advice isn'talways the best, but I I did
like that example, Suzanne.
SPEAKER_03 (17:07):
All right, here's another closely related one.
The goal line parenting.
The ends justify the method, theparents laser focused on results
like college, scholarships,obedience, career, and success,
relationships and emotionaldevelopment will take a back
seat to that finish line.
So, how does this parentingstyle look in practice?
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
Overall, it looks as if the parents are involved, but
it becomes so outcome-focused,outcome-driven that similarly to
the last trap, sometimes missesthe mark.
SPEAKER_04 (17:35):
When I brought home a C in the sixth grade for the
first time, I was hiding.
I didn't know what to do with myfirst one.
Everybody, you know, everyeverybody was expecting the
straight A's, A's, B's, and uh,I didn't know what to do with my
first C.
And some of that is that.
I mean, I think I'm I felt likeI was letting the family down
because of the high expectationthat I had or that they had for
me that maybe isn't alwaysrealistic.
SPEAKER_02 (17:55):
I I think you have you have to realize that every
child is different, even withinthe same family, right?
And so what's an appropriategoal for one child may not be an
appropriate goal for anotherchild.
I think sometimes you also haveto set, you know, a lot of
parents want to live vicariouslythrough their children and their
children's accomplishments.
And I think you have to set yourown desires for that child aside
(18:18):
and let them make some lifechoices on their own, good or
bad.
Again, sometimes kids are gonnafail.
And what's our response to that,right?
The the way we respond to thatchild and support them when they
bring home that C can be waymore important than the checkbox
of achieving a certain goal.
And and like Emily said earlier,it can lead to perfectionism or,
(18:41):
you know, performance-basedbehavior.
That relationship and emotionaldevelopment, the importance of
that can't be overlooked, right?
Like we we talk a lot about inthe work that we do.
Of course, we're working withchildren and families around our
campus, but we, it's imperativefor our jobs that we have that
emotional intelligence.
And you can certainly tell whenyou interview potential staff if
(19:03):
they have emotional intelligenceor if that's been missing.
And I think that that mostindustries, even those that are
different from childcare, whichis our industry, would tell you
that a certain level ofemotional intelligence is really
important.
That's how you learn how to getalong with your coworkers,
right?
And how you learn to resolve aconflict with your boss.
When those things haven't beennurtured and grown through that
(19:26):
relationship with a parent andchild, it's gonna hinder some of
their performance later in lifeon the job.
SPEAKER_04 (19:32):
Some of the things I've seen too is uh when parents
then don't realize their kidsare all different individuals.
Yeah.
And then comparisons happen.
So why can't you be like him?
Or she brings home straight A'sall the time, or you know, so
these comparisons happen whichcreate conflict within maybe
even the sibling group or withinthe family unit, because every
(19:53):
kid's not the same and they allhave their different strengths.
So my brothers have completelydifferent personalities and
strengths than I do.
The fact that I was just giftedwith a little more intelligent,
that's not their fault.
And you know, I would alwayshear that, right?
I would always hear, well, Sammybrought home straight A.
He said, My brother, Sammy said,you know, you know, if my
brother ever hears this, he'lllaugh about it because we talk
about it all the time.
(20:13):
Mom likes you more.
And they're like, no, she likesyou more.
You know, so right, it createsthis kind of subtle competition.
Probably doesn't need to bethere all the time.
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
No, one of my children as a young adult was
was kind of frustrating with,you know, frustrated in her
college classes.
And and she said, My friend andI were talking and so stressful.
And I said, Tell me what what'sso stressful.
And she said, Well, you won't behappy if I don't go to college
and finish a degree.
And I said, Well, I'm sorry thatI gave you that impression.
Like, let me tell you that inthe big scheme of things, I
(20:42):
don't care.
That was my pathway.
That's what I felt like I neededto do to accomplish the goal
that, you know, that I wasinterested in.
I said, but I could care less ifyou go to college or not.
What you know, what I want foryou is to be happy.
I want you to be a Christian andbe kind to other people.
And I want you to have a jobthat allows you to support
yourself without having to relyon another person.
(21:03):
I don't want you to have two orthree jobs, or I don't want you
to have to feel like you gethave to get married in order to
support.
I want you to beself-sufficient.
But beyond that, there are somany pathways to do that.
I don't care.
And I hope that that was arelief, right?
And so I think sometimes ourkids have the impression that we
have these maybe we do havethese expectations, right?
Or even if we don't, the kidsfeel that kind of pressure,
(21:24):
right?
Especially if that's all theirfriends are going that college
pathway or all, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (21:29):
Yeah, something that's been rolling around in my
mind is something you said onthe last podcast is that you
only get to be a kid for a very,very short amount of time.
And if you're doing this styleof parenting, you're really
robbing the kid of being able tobe a kid.
Yeah, you parentify them pretty,pretty quickly.
So what's what might be somecommon behaviors that would
result from this style ofparenting?
SPEAKER_00 (21:50):
I think maybe one could be just confusion when you
fail.
Is there a lack of love when youfail, or who am I?
Because I was so good at thisbefore and maybe not so good at
something different now.
SPEAKER_04 (22:00):
Oh, I you see it on TV all the time, the cold
perfectionist.
I'm better, you know, I knowmore, I'm expected to be
perfect, and it's all a facade,you know, to to keep up an
appearance that maybe they don'tbelieve in, but that they're
expected to be.
SPEAKER_02 (22:14):
There may be some rebellion from that too.
Once, you know, if you've beenpressured into this, once you
have control over your own life,you may you may decide to be
rebellious and take a differentpathway.
Out of spite or something.
Yeah, it could be.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
Or out of burnout.
Yeah.
It's exhausting to be perfect.
Yeah.
You're right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:32):
You're right.
SPEAKER_03 (22:33):
All right.
Here's another one that'ssimilar to the last two, the
trophy trap.
This parent celebratesaccomplishments, but kind of
overlooks character.
Winning and achieving or beingthe best becomes or the only
metric that matters.
Your worth is what you win.
So what type of how would youdescribe this style of
parenting?
SPEAKER_02 (22:49):
Well, you really see this in children's sports.
Yeah.
Right.
And so from T ball to littleleague to, you know, we're
talking about young children andparents who are losing their
minds over, you know, theirchild isn't getting enough
playtime, or they saw that thecoach corrected their child and
(23:11):
they didn't like it, or the refcalled a foul and they don't
like that.
And the parents just kind oflose their minds over that.
And and the message that thatsends to the child is, you know,
I have I I'm only worth what Iwin, right?
Exactly what the description ofthat said.
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
It's all about being the best.
SPEAKER_02 (23:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Whether you really are the bestor not, right?
I mean, you're the best becauseyour parents are putting
pressure on coaches and refs toensure that you you are the
best.
And and it's sad to me for kidsto think it's I'm only important
if I win, you know, but I don'thave any real worth or I'm not
truly loved unless I'm the best,the first, the fastest.
SPEAKER_04 (23:50):
Yeah.
Even the kid makes a mistake,what's happening to them?
It has nothing to do with theref.
They make a mistake, or maybethey were tired that day and are
they getting are they gettingsome feedback on the way home or
something that's like that?
SPEAKER_03 (24:02):
I'm a pretty competitive person.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
That's that understatement.
SPEAKER_03 (24:06):
And I had to try really, really hard not to to do
this one.
Thankfully, my wife is not acompetitive person, and she had
she was a bit of a buffer onthis.
And one thing she was alwaysmaking sure to talk to our girls
and that I would talk to thegirls about after a game where
maybe they messed up or anythinglike that was just let them know
that I enjoyed watching themplay and it was a f it was fun
to see them out there doingthings.
(24:27):
Um yeah, but I it I'm feeling alittle convicted on this one,
but it it is really an easy oneto kind of slip into,
well-intentioned or not.
So, what are some of thebehaviors that might happen a
kid might exhibit because ofthis this style of behavior this
style of parenting?
SPEAKER_04 (24:42):
Well, they they might be tired a lot.
Yeah.
The kids.
They also might be injured alot.
unknown (24:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (24:47):
Whether it's or sick a lot, because you know, I think
if you're doing something youdon't like doing, you're not
gonna really want to do it or doit well.
SPEAKER_05 (24:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (24:54):
So maybe there's all these illnesses that happen and
things like that.
I don't know.
I'm I'm guessing here.
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Yeah, Suzanne, you said whether they're good at it
or not, it could look likeover-identifying with their
performance.
I think that's true.
SPEAKER_02 (25:05):
I I think too, I can remember when my my oldest was,
you know, say five or six, andshe went to a gymnastics class
once a week.
And I overheard another parentsaying, you know, on Mondays we
do gymnastics and on Tuesdays wedo ballet, and on Wednesdays we
do soccer, and on Thursdays wehave track practice, and on
Fridays we and it was every dayof the week.
And I thought, how exhaustingfor the parent, for the child,
(25:28):
for their pocketbook, you know,that at some point kids need
time just to be kids and to playand to relax.
And I see, again, this doesn'tonly refer to sports, but I
think it just is applicablehere, right?
That you can become too obsessedwith this, right?
And and kids, even middle schoolkids and high school kids need
(25:49):
some time to rest and relax andrecuperate and not not be all
consumed with an activity,whatever that activity is.
SPEAKER_03 (25:58):
I think sometimes kids will also, because the
winning matters the most, willdo inappropriate things to win.
SPEAKER_05 (26:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:06):
Take shortcuts, they'll cheat, they'll do
whatever it takes, alienatefriends, family members.
I mean, it's it can be prettyrough.
That pressure can be reallyrough on the kids and the their
behaviors may spiral into thingsthat they normally wouldn't do.
SPEAKER_04 (26:18):
Yeah, fake, fake and or or not reveal an injury or
play through exhaustion.
Like it's some of that, but notthat any of that's positive,
man.
We understand having grit, butyou know, they'll hide an injury
and things, you know.
All the things you see go intodrug use or or anything like
that.
You're right.
The mask, you know, steroids,whatever people do, and that
that's uh immense amount ofpressure.
SPEAKER_00 (26:39):
There could be a lot of struggles with self-worth
when not achieving well enough.
SPEAKER_03 (26:43):
All right.
Tell me about this one thelockdown parenting.
Safety over trust.
In response to fear, this parentheavily restricts the child's
exposure to the world oftechnology, social situations,
and even friendships.
So, what does this style ofparenting look like?
SPEAKER_04 (26:57):
This is, you know, and this is a fear thing, like
you just said, I think isinteresting.
When I when I was growing up, Iwas I was co-parenting with my
mom and my my grand my greatgrandmother.
And she was a lockdown person.
She was like, I should have toknow where I was at all times.
Where my mom was more like, hey,I go play, you know, but but I
mean I I couldn't be gone 10minutes and I'm getting called
to check on me.
(27:17):
What am I doing?
And where you know, and I'm justin the backyard, right?
And so it's just this, yeah, andI know thinking back now, I
think she was just she wasscared, you know.
You know, she loves me and Iknew she did, and I think she
was worried about things couldhappen.
Also, I found out later we livedin a bad neighborhood, so she
had a really good reason to notnot get it.
You didn't know how I could justwalk in the street and ride my
bike, and no, because thesecrazy people just drove down the
(27:39):
street like crazy.
And and you know, so I Irealized that being an older
when I became a teenager, shekind of explained it to me, but
it it did feel like lockdown.
So, what does that mean?
That means like all my otherfriends can play, but I always
gotta be coming back.
And I think that's where likesometimes it h it hurts your
self-confidence, I think, as akid.
Like I didn't get to play aslong or as much as other kids at
times, you know, because she wasactually uh more of my primary
(28:01):
at the time.
My mom had to work a lot, so Iwas with my grandmother when I
was young.
SPEAKER_03 (28:05):
So, what might be some of the common behaviors
that you uh a child wouldexhibit from this parenting
style?
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
I think I think the same being sneaky, right, or
being rebellious.
On our campus, we follow statelicensing regulations and
there's a policy called normalcyand that came out several years
ago.
But but basically what the statesays is that just because a
child lives in an out-of-homeplacement doesn't mean they that
it's okay for them to miss outon typical childhood activities,
(28:31):
right?
And historically, say kids infacilities like ours or in
foster care um were supervisedso closely that they never got
to do typical k typical kidthings, right?
And typical teenagers sometimesget to be away from their
parents, right?
They get to be out of adultsupervision and go to the mall
with a friend or go to a moviewith a friend.
Like, and so, you know, we welook at that in our environment
(28:54):
and so that children who areresponsible and developmentally
age appropriate can engage inactivities like that.
And I think that's important forall kids, right?
But you have to know your ownpersonal child.
What, how response are theymature enough to handle a
situation?
Have they exhibitedtrustworthiness in the past?
And I think, you know, that'spart of this when it talks about
(29:16):
safety over trust.
As adults, in order for our kidsto build trust with us, we have
to give them chances to buildtrust.
You can't know if you can trustanother person until you give
them the opportunity to take achance and build that trust with
you.
And so I think as parents, westart, we start and we do that
in small ways.
You know, like Sam said, he hadto check in every 10 minutes,
(29:38):
right?
So maybe we can extend that to15.
Now, if he doesn't come back andcheck in 15 minutes, he hasn't
shown that he's trustworthy,right?
But you know what?
If he checks in at 15 minutesand we try that for a couple of
weeks, well then maybe I canextend it to 20, right?
Like we're giving smallopportunities for kids to build
that trust with us.
We also have to know thatbecause they're kids and their
cortex isn't fully developed.
(30:00):
Sometimes they're gonna mess up.
They're gonna get so involved inplaying that they didn't look at
the clock and they forgot at 20minutes, right?
That doesn't mean that we goback into lockdown.
We have a conversation about it.
We keep working on building thattrust.
And I think that's so important.
You know, one of the things thatyour definition referenced was
technology.
And that's a really hard onetoo.
(30:20):
I think, I think there are a lotof dangers in technology and
that it takes a lot of parentalsupervision to use that wisely.
But again, if you are willing totake those steps to check in
with your kid and to check theirphone, check what they're doing
on social media, then you'regiving them opportunities to
build that trust with you.
SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
All right, finally, let's talk about the ruler trap.
Rules matter more thanrelationship.
The parent has a strict code ofbehavior that holds everyone to
it, no exceptions.
Grace is rare, rules areabsolute, mistakes often bring
shame, not learning.
How does this style of parentinglook?
SPEAKER_04 (30:53):
I respect what this parent's trying to do, right?
I I respect that everywhere yougo, there's rules.
In fact, they're posted mostplaces you go, right?
And and uh they're written inwhen you go to work, they're
written down in a big policyabout all the rules you have,
right?
So I I respect what they'retrying to do, but it's like we
said before, there's there's nota perfect, there's not a rule
for everything.
I mean, there's just not.
SPEAKER_05 (31:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (31:13):
I mean, we people gotta learn how to operate one
in the gray when there is grayarea in in something, right?
The don't do XYZ.
That's simple, but there's alsomoral dilemmas people gotta
learn to deal with.
There's, you know, uh all theseother things that they just
don't fall in a rule set.
Like, what's the right thing todo in this situation?
And that's where we gotta teach,right?
It's a difference, right?
We we gotta teach the stuff, andit's important, uh, it's
(31:34):
important to know rules and havestructure for kids, but they
also gotta have the ability tomess up a little bit.
SPEAKER_02 (31:39):
I think sometimes people that fall into this trap
really want to apply the rulesto other people, but when they
violate the rules themselves,they want grace.
Right?
They're the first ones to say,oh, please give me another
chance or please forgive me or Ior I messed up.
And so that that grace is soimportant, not only for us, but
for us to extend it to otherpeople in those situations,
(32:01):
especially kids, right?
Because kids are learning,they're still developing,
they're still figuring out howthings work.
And they can't they can't learnthat if they're never allowed to
mess up.
And and especially if there isshame that comes with a mistake
rather than grace.
SPEAKER_03 (32:16):
So, what might be some common behaviors that kids
may exhibit from this style ofparenting?
SPEAKER_02 (32:20):
I think this is a perfect recipe for anxiety in a
child, right?
Being anxious about making amistake, about am I doing it the
correct way?
And like Sam and Emily both saidearlier, when you when you're so
afraid of making a mistake, youdon't have a lot of
self-confidence in your owncapacity to make a good
decision.
SPEAKER_04 (32:37):
Well, also if there is no grace, and what's the
point of doing the right thing?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
At some point, children aren'tsmall and they're not children
forever, and they're as as theyget into their emotional brain,
as they become teenagers,they're gonna start testing
limits just naturally.
And however these parentscontrol could could fail.
I mean, if it if it's physicalcontrol, that that could fail.
(32:59):
Because at some point kidsaren't scared of your parents
anymore.
And I'm not saying you need tobe, or maybe there'd be a lack
of respect because you don't youdon't listen to what I say
anyway.
So I'm gonna try what's I thinkis bet the best thing to do.
And I uh there has to be graceor there's no point.
I want to get in trouble anyway.
I might as well go all the way.
Yeah, and do the thing, right?
SPEAKER_00 (33:17):
You know, and you said lack of respect.
It could also be lack of respectfor the importance of rules and
boundaries too without knowingwhy my parents created these
rules and boundaries.
I think that could go into theoutside world too, just not
respecting other people's rulesand boundaries.
SPEAKER_02 (33:33):
When adults set the rules, they make perfect sense
to us, but they don't alwaysmake sense to kids, right?
They don't understand thehistory or the reasoning or the
context.
And so it's so important for usto explain the purpose or the
reasoning behind rules to kids.
SPEAKER_03 (33:50):
So what happens in the long run when parents
enforce rules without building arelationship?
SPEAKER_02 (33:54):
You know, I can remember when I when I was new
working in this in this fieldand and a staff member said,
hey, there's there's twoextremes, rules at one end and
relationship at the other.
And if it's all relationship, itkind of it kind of turns into
that grandparenting style ofparenting where, you know, yes,
darling, here's some more icecream before dinner, like
(34:14):
whatever you want, you can do nowrong, right?
Versus that boot camps drillsergeant type of, you know, it's
all about rules.
And in reality, somewhere inbetween is a healthier blend,
right?
You know, so we talked about atthe last podcast permissive
parenting, and now we're talkingabout authoritarian parenting.
And most of us are somewhere onthat spectrum in the middle, but
(34:36):
the most effective is to parentthrough relationship in the
context of rules.
Again, they say that kids don'tcare how much you know until
they know how much you care.
So if you've taken the time andeffort to build a relationship,
a positive, secure, healthyrelationship with your child,
it's much easier for them tounderstand the point of the
rules, you know, because theyknow that you're parenting out
(34:58):
of love and concern for them.
SPEAKER_04 (35:00):
Yeah, I said this earlier.
I mean, I I I knowunconditionally that my mom
loved me.
Yeah.
And my mom was very good aboutexplaining the why of things.
And sometimes I demanded it,right?
I'm I'm getting older, you know,and I was in charge of a lot of
things when I was a youngteenager.
I had a young brother that Ihelped care for.
And so these responsibilitiesget thrust, but so there's rules
that come with it, right?
I got this baby's gotta survive.
(35:21):
Right.
And so I'm giving the strict,hey, here's how you do it,
here's what time I need you.
Also, she also told us why, youknow, I need you to be an
earshot or I need you to, youknow, why you can't go to the
here or don't go to that house.
Like she knew things I wasn'tprivy to.
And maybe when I was younger, Ididn't need to know those
things.
But as I got older, she sharedthose things.
I could respect my mom andfollow the rules my mom set
(35:42):
because she loved me and I knewthat she was she had the best
intentions.
Did I always agree?
No.
I got to see my friends go dothings that I couldn't go do,
some sleepovers.
It was absolutely no.
Yeah.
And maybe she was for respectingprivacy or whatever of those
people.
I find out later that it, yeah,it's probably a good reason I
she didn't let me go to thehouse.
Yeah.
She just knew that she knew thecommunity, she knows the people
in the community, and that Idon't know.
(36:04):
I'm young and I'm just freeing,trying to get free as a
teenager.
And uh, I just thought that wasreally cool because I can see it
today that she was just tryingto pre- everything, every rule
had a reason, and it was for myprotection and for my brother's
protection and you know, ourfamily's protection, and and
also so I don't get in trouble.
And you know, I she didn't wantme to feel what it's like to get
handcuffed or right.
(36:24):
So hey, you can't do XYZ.
No, we don't do that in thestore.
No, we don't, right?
From the time I was a little boyinto the time I became I was a
man, right?
So the other part of it isthrough all that growth, right,
with all that respect, it it ittaught me how to kind of be in
society.
Yeah.
And so I could transition easierto other parts of like going to
school wasn't hard for mebecause I had structure and I
(36:44):
had rules, you know.
So there was just this balance,you know.
It was harder at school,actually, because I didn't have
a relationship with theteachers.
SPEAKER_05 (36:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (36:50):
You know, they're just telling me what to do.
And I and I you know, like,well, who are you to tell me?
You know, you're not my mom,you're not my mom, and my mom's
scarier than you for sure.
You know, but you know, so Ithink that's just a perfect
example of that.
SPEAKER_02 (37:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (37:01):
Uh that relationship is the only reason I really did
what my mom asked me to do.
Yeah.
And she also enforced it if Ididn't.
unknown (37:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (37:09):
Right.
There was a there was aconsequence for me if I did if I
didn't at times.
SPEAKER_03 (37:13):
I remember in a previous podcast, we were
talking about parenting from age25 to 35.
And one of the beautiful thingsI heard the other panelists talk
about was the relationship thatyou get to have with your kid
once they become that age.
But I wonder what happens ifyou're all authoritarian from
birth to 18.
Do you get to experience thatthat beautiful friendship once
(37:33):
they're once they're older, ifthe kids just wash their hands
with parents.
I've seen that happen with someuh friends where they their kids
go off and they they don't talkto them anymore and don't have a
relationship.
And I it just seems very, verysad to me.
SPEAKER_02 (37:45):
You know, one of the things we tell all of our staff
here on campus is that the mostimportant tool that you have at
your disposal is building arelationship with these
residents, right?
More than anything else I everteach you in a class, if I can
convince you to build arelationship with the children
that you care for, you will haveinfluence over their decisions
(38:06):
and over their behavior.
And but the only way to do it isby relationship.
SPEAKER_03 (38:10):
So what does healthy authority look like in a
parent-child relationship?
Because parents do need to be inthe role of authority, right?
SPEAKER_00 (38:17):
It's saying I'm in charge, but I still care about
your feelings and emotions.
Right.
At the beginning, I mentioned myparents were very structured,
probably strict, but at the endof the day, I could still feel
that they cared about myfeelings and emotions, which has
brought me to that age group youwere previously talking about
and the beautiful relationship Ido get to have with my parents
now.
SPEAKER_02 (38:37):
Yeah.
Josh, earlier you mentionedcooperation versus control.
And so I think, you know, whenkids have some input into the
rules, they have more buy-in,right?
And so kids don't get to set therules, but could we get their
input?
Could we ask them, hey, youknow, hey, what do you think
about this?
Or if a kid is saying, I don'tlike that rule, okay, how could
we compromise?
Could we do that, right?
(38:58):
But bringing them into thatdiscussion, into that role of
decision making, you cooperateand you compromise on a rule and
then you ask the child, hey, ifyou break that rule, what should
the consequence be?
Right.
So they're brought into thatpart of it too.
And that helps strengthen theircortex.
It helps them withdecision-making skills.
If you can share that powerinstead of, you know, grasping
(39:20):
it for yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (39:21):
And it helps them learn from their mistakes.
SPEAKER_04 (39:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think healthy authority alsohas to be evolutionary.
I talked about earlier when Iwas young, I needed a lot more
structure.
I needed a lot more being toldwhat to do.
And right, and so as I gotolder, uh, it was let loose a
little bit.
And also I'd proven that I canoverall do the things I said I
was gonna do.
Yeah, I make decent decisions,all based on my training for my
(39:44):
mom, right?
Yeah and my you know, and I Ithink that it's used the
consistency of that.
I always knew I can more I can90% guess what the answer was
gonna be.
Also, we were on an ask system.
I I I had to ask permission todo things, I didn't just walk
out of the house for obvious forthe reasons I said earlier.
I can't just leave the house andjust disappear down the
neighborhood.
Yeah.
I had to say, Mom, I'm going toXYZ's house.
(40:05):
And sure, you know, okay, beback by XYZ.
Okay.
And so, right, so it's it's coolbecause you know, she was the
boss, and I knew she was theboss, and I have to eat.
She's also the cook, right?
So I'll just playing, but youknow, she you know, she was
looking out for us and we knewit, and I think that's that's
healthy.
She also evolved with the timeswhen she realized, hey, I was I
(40:26):
was the oldest, right?
So I'm the one that had to gothrough the training.
SPEAKER_02 (40:29):
She learned on you.
SPEAKER_04 (40:30):
Yeah, because right at some point she had to realize
I'm not a I'm not a big, youknow, I'm not little anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (40:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (40:35):
I need a little more freedom.
And luckily, my mom was able tomake that distinction and and
create that and give me a littlemore freedoms.
SPEAKER_02 (40:42):
Sam, we're gonna send a copy of this to your mom
from Mother's Day.
It's very sweet.
Yeah, yeah, we can tell.
It's very wonderful.
SPEAKER_03 (40:49):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
If you'd like to contact us andask us a question or email, our
address is podcast atcalfarley.org.
I'll make sure I'll leave a linkin the description.
As always, you might have toloan out your frontal lobes
today.
Just make sure you remember andget them back.
SPEAKER_01 (41:03):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about CalFarley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
calfarly.org.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
(41:26):
CalFarley's.
Thank you for spending your timewith us and have a blessed day.
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys
Ranch podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions, utilizing theknowledge, experience, and
(00:21):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to
offer.
Now here is your host, CalFarley Staff Development
Coordinator, Joshua Sprock.
SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
Welcome back.
Today we're going to continueour discussion on parent traps,
focusing on authoritarianparenting style.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
To do that today, I'm again joined by Suzanne
Wright, Vice President ofTraining and Intervention.
Emily Tennyson, ClinicalIntervention Specialist.
SPEAKER_04 (00:44):
Sam Cerna, Assistant Administrator of Residential
Communities.
SPEAKER_03 (00:47):
All right, so let's start off with our question of
the day.
So what's something that yourparents let you do that you
would not allow kids to dotoday?
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
I think my parents let me roam all over the
community without any knowledgeabout where I was.
You know, I didn't have a cellphone and there was no way to
keep track of me.
And and I was probably withanother group of kids, but you
know, we just don't really letour kids do things like that
today.
And so part of that was not asmuch a difference in parenting
as a difference in 30 years'time.
SPEAKER_03 (01:15):
My girls on their phones have app that tracks like
where they are, so I know wherethey are 24 hours a day, seven
days a week.
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
My parents never knew where I was.
No.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
I have thought long and hard about this question,
and I don't know what to say.
My parents had a verystructured, possibly strict
household when it came to rules.
I don't know what I would let mykids do that I was allowed to
do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (01:36):
I think I'm aligned with Suzanne.
I think that's probably thebiggest thing that I got to do
that maybe I didn't let my kidsdo.
Part of it's because where theygrew up.
But I had to just kind of go, Ihad boundaries, but I could kind
of go around and be gone most ofthe day.
As long as I'm within a whistleof my my mom whistles, we had to
be able we had to be able tohear and come back.
SPEAKER_03 (01:53):
Mine was helmets.
I never wore a helmet ever.
Never even thought about it.
Like my girls, I'm as discussedon earlier podcasts, I'm the
helicopter parent.
And yeah, they had to wearhelmets, elbow guards.
I think one time I even wrappedthem in a with a couple pillows
when they're learning how toroller skate.
Yeah, that's that that'd bemine.
SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
Wow.
In 20 years, we're gonna getyour girls in here when their
parents were gonna interviewthem.
SPEAKER_04 (02:15):
You know what I got to do though?
I did get to stand up in themiddle of a single cab truck
with no seatbelt on and allthat.
Oh yeah.
That was a different time.
I didn't I'm dating us, uh Josh.
No, that was the best.
That was way fun.
SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
I would not allow my kids to do that.
No.
All right, so we're gonna betalking about authoritarian
parenting traps today.
So when you hear the termauthoritarian parenting, what
comes to mind?
SPEAKER_02 (02:35):
Control, strictness, rigid rules, no room for
negotiation.
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
It's my way or the highway.
SPEAKER_04 (02:43):
It's uh not a democracy.
SPEAKER_03 (02:45):
Not a democracy.
Yep.
You say jump and your kid sayshow high, right?
You think authoritarianparenting was more common in the
past generations than it istoday?
SPEAKER_02 (02:53):
I d I do think that.
I I think when you look at, youknow, generational differences
and you think about the greatestgeneration, that is definitely
where the father was the head ofthe household and what he said
went.
And there wasn't, you know,children wouldn't have been
defiant or talked back orquestioned that father's
authority.
And I think things havedefinitely evolved and changed,
(03:15):
some better, some worse over theyears.
SPEAKER_04 (03:17):
Yeah, I could see the differences between like my
great my great-grandparents, mygrandparents, and then my mom
had a bit different view.
In fact, I think she told us atone point where she said, Hey,
we were we were everybody was sostrict.
I'm trying to give you guys alittle bit more rope.
And even then I felt like wewere pretty structured home, but
she also wasn't they had a lotof rituals who were here from a
(03:38):
Hispanic culture, a lot ofrituals, and my mom was kinda a
little bit more liberal aboutsome of those things, but it
wasn't too liberal.
But it was way different thanwhat I could see with my
grandparents.
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
I think anytime we're negative about the younger
generation, we have to rememberwho raised them.
Right?
And and and that we all raiseour own kids in response or
reaction to the way that we wereraised.
So it all plays a part.
SPEAKER_03 (04:00):
So is there a difference or how is being
structured or firm differentthan being authoritarian?
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
I think being structured, you have created
safety through boundaries andpredictability, whereas being
firm and from an authoritarianstandpoint is harshness or
compliance.
Removes that relational piece.
SPEAKER_03 (04:20):
Yeah, I think there's a big difference between
compliance and cooperation.
You can have pretty good strictfirm structured routine and talk
about it and explain what whythe reasons are and all that,
and you get cooperation.
But if you just tell someone youhave to do it because they have
to do it, that doesn't typicallygo very well.
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
Yeah, because I said to.
SPEAKER_03 (04:36):
Because I said so.
Yeah.
Um so how do kids typicallyrespond to overly strict
environments?
SPEAKER_02 (04:41):
I think in not in every situation, but in many
situations it leads to rebellionor sneakiness.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
Or I was thinking while some become sneaky, others
become passive.
SPEAKER_04 (04:51):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I think it well, you'retalking about response, but I do
think that maybe there's uh likeshe said, passive passiveness.
I mean, or passive compliance oralong with the sneakiness,
you're good in some situationsand you can be sneaky in other
situations.
Well, also I think it it affectsself-confidence in children
because you know you're justbeing told what to do all the
time.
And so you don't well, you don'thave to think for yourself, so
(05:13):
you don't think for yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (05:14):
I remember when I graduated from high school, a
lot of my friends who were invery, very strict homes,
authoritarian home homes, whenthey went to college, they went
crazy because there wasn'tanyone to keep them under
control anymore.
And they really, reallystruggled not having that person
with their thumb on them all thetime.
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
Yeah, we talked about this in the last podcast,
you know, the difference betweenhelping a child develop internal
self-control or being externallycontrolled by the parent.
And if you're thinking in termsof, you know, parenting for the
long game, preparing your childto live independently outside of
your supervision, then you wantthem to develop their own
internal self-control.
But in a in a very strictauthoritarian environment, it is
(05:54):
all about the external control.
You're you will obey me becauseI say you will.
And the kids never have thatopportunity to fall and make a
mistake and learn from thatmistake or to develop that
internal self-control.
SPEAKER_03 (06:06):
All right, let's start talking about our
authoritarian parent traps.
The first one I want to talkabout is the drill sergeant
trap.
Commands are issued, complianceis expected, and there's very
little room for discussion,negotiation, or empathy.
Kids may behave, but it's oftenout of fear or conditioning.
So, how do how would youdescribe this style of
parenting?
What does it look like?
SPEAKER_02 (06:25):
I think that title says it all, it's the drill
sergeant.
Right?
When when young adults are inmilitary boot camp, they are
expected to give immediatecompliance to whatever issue was
just ordered, and there's noquestioning, there is no
discussion.
And and I do think there areparents that try to run their
(06:45):
home in the same way.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
Parents are more like a boss rather than a
nurturer.
SPEAKER_03 (06:50):
So, what might be some common behaviors that would
come from this style ofparenting?
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Fear-based compliance would be one.
SPEAKER_04 (06:56):
Also the opposite of rebellion.
And we talked about that.
I mean, some some noteverybody's built the same, and
they I especially once they getolder and they a little bit more
capable and a little bit morephysical, if they're not afraid
of you of treat you the same,it's possible.
SPEAKER_02 (07:09):
Yeah, most of us are surprised when our kids outgrow
us.
I think also for the parenting,for the parent, this is
exhausting.
Oh, I would think right.
It's exhausting to to have to bein control of all things at all
times.
It's it's a lot.
SPEAKER_03 (07:25):
I wonder if some people parents do this because
of the short-term reward of it.
That it in the in the momentit's a lot easier to keep your
thumb on the kid.
But I think you're right,Suzanne.
In the long term, you gotta keepyour thumb on them all the time.
Yeah.
Because what happens if you takeyour thumb off?
SPEAKER_04 (07:38):
And you also gotta consider, you know, what they
learned and why they're doingthis.
And you know, we talked about itin the last podcast.
This also can work here, is thatthe sometimes society is
expecting a certain behavior outof kid where you're this or
that, where you're at a certainplace.
So this is how you control it,right?
You control you control the kid,therefore you hopefully control
(07:59):
their behavior.
And so sometimes it also is justmaybe out of the parents'
necessity or lack of skill orjust don't don't know.
Also, they could have beenparented that way.
SPEAKER_02 (08:08):
I can remember growing up, we sat, you know, in
the same pew every Sunday, butwe sat behind a family of four
little boys who sat motionless,facing towards the front of the
church, perfectly all church.
And it and I don't know whatthey did.
You know, I don't know if theirchildren were just naturally
calm, you know, but they were soquote unquote well-behaved.
(08:29):
And then I had a little brotherwho was like a squirmer and you
know, he didn't make a sound orhe talked.
And I think that my parents felta lot of pressure in comparison
to these still well-behavedchildren in front of us, you
know, and I think that that isthat is probably even more
magnified today with socialmedia is that we're in a
(08:49):
position constantly ofcomparison.
We compare our parenting stylesto the parenting styles of
others.
We compare, you know, the wayour children behave to the way
other kids behave.
And I do think for a lot ofparents, they they want to go
out and for publicly theirchildren to behave well because
it's a personal reflection onthem.
In all honesty, that's almost animpossible standard for most of
(09:12):
us, for most kids.
SPEAKER_03 (09:13):
Which really leads to the next trap, the Sunday
Best trap.
SPEAKER_02 (09:16):
There it is.
SPEAKER_03 (09:16):
Family emphasizes religious behavior and outward
morality, how they dress, howthey talk, how they act at
church, while neglecting grace,connection, or any authentic
spiritual growth.
Kids may learn to performspiritually without actually
developing a relationship withChrist personally.
So, how does this parenting traplook?
SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
Well, I think this is a trap that a lot of people
fall into, not just as parents,but I think, you know, just a
lot of people put their bestfoot forward and, you know, may
attend church on a Sundaymorning and maybe even Wednesday
night, but but it doesn'tpermeate their lives.
And so if that's how we are asadults, then that's really all
we have to impart to our kids.
(09:56):
I think you're gonna you'regonna see that the children have
that same depth or shallownessof faith that that their parents
do.
SPEAKER_03 (10:04):
So what might be some common behaviors that would
result from this style ofparenting?
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
Spiritual performance or a lot of shame
when struggling.
Because you're not looking apartnecessarily.
SPEAKER_03 (10:14):
I think during times of struggle and hardship, this
would be a very difficult timefor kids and families who have
this style that they wouldn'thave any of the the depth that
you talked about.
It would be very shallow andprobably maybe even fall away
from their faith because ofthat.
SPEAKER_04 (10:27):
Yeah, I've known adults who who just did like you
said, didn't they didn't go tochurch anymore after they became
adults for themselves becausethey felt maybe that God was a
mean person or that maybe it wasjust false because we act this
way at church, but we don't actthis way at home and what I'm
seeing isn't what I'm readingkind of thing.
You know, I I didn't I don'tknow.
I think every faith isdifferent, and I'm not so I'm
not gonna get into that.
(10:47):
But and but I think uh it's wellintentioned, right?
And a lot of it's again for showfor others, right?
We're trying to hey, we gottaact right, we gotta do right.
And I think there's some valueto that.
Oh, yeah.
I remember, you know, somebody'sgotta teach me how to act in in
places, and I I think that'sokay.
It's just, you know, sometimeslike I said, it just creates the
opposite effect of what youwant.
SPEAKER_02 (11:04):
I think sometimes, you know, as a parent, the
hardest place to go and admitthat you're struggling is to
your church family.
Right?
Hope hopefully that's not thecase, but I just think in in
reality, that's sometimes a hardplace to be real or to be
vulnerable because you are youare afraid of judgment.
And so hopefully, you know, aspeople in a church, we
(11:26):
understand that that's whereshould people people should feel
the safest, right?
And the ability to ask for helpor say I'm struggling or this
happened in our family, right?
But it it's hard.
SPEAKER_03 (11:36):
All right, let's move on to the ice sculpture
trap.
Everything looks perfect on theoutside, but because parents
prioritize the image of thefamily, the child, while
emotional warmth orvulnerability is lacking,
emotions are often hidden oreven discouraged.
So what would this parentingstyle look like?
SPEAKER_02 (11:52):
You know, my first thought is that like this is the
Instagram style of parenting.
You know, just because so manypeople put put a show on social
media.
And I always enjoy it whensomeone, when someone,
especially who has a a sizablesocial media following, says,
Hey, you know, here's what yousaw in this Instagram post, and
let me open the door to thisbedroom where we shoved
(12:13):
everything that was in the, youknow, all the stuff that was in
the living room.
We shoved it in there and thenwe made this post that looks
like our house is perfect, butit's not, right?
But I think that again, itthere's so much social pressure.
And we've talked about socialpressure on teenagers, but wow,
it's it's hard on adults too.
I personally feel like youngmothers are under incredible
(12:34):
pressure to always look perfectand always have a perfect home
and their children are dressedperfectly.
And I think that's that's just alot.
And you have this outer shell,but you may not have any
substance inside.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
Instagram or social media in general creates this
polished, poised idea of lifewhen authentic life is actually
messy.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
Yeah, yeah.
And and if you know anybody verywell, you see that they have
messy parts of their life too.
That's not usually what we post,but there's a lot of messy.
SPEAKER_03 (13:05):
So, what might be some common behaviors that kids
may exhibit because of thisstyle of parenting?
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
My first thought is people pleasing.
SPEAKER_03 (13:11):
Yeah.
I wonder how much emotionalwarmth they're gonna have and
how much relationship seekingthey're gonna have because
that's been ignored as well.
SPEAKER_00 (13:19):
Or even perfectionism, too.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:21):
All right, here's a fun one the coach mom or coach
dad trap.
Parenting from the sidelines,but not really from the heart.
Parent takes the role ofperformance coach or life
strategist, a guide, direct,evaluate constantly.
But they often missopportunities to emotionally
connect and just be with a childwithout an agenda.
So, how would you describe thisstyle of parenting?
SPEAKER_02 (13:38):
I think it's well intentioned, but again, you may
miss some opportunities.
You know, we say out here on ourcampus a lot that crisis is
opportunity, right?
And so we see a kid struggling,and that's an opportunity to
have a conversation and leadthem to some insight and maybe
bring about change.
But I I think that you canoverdo that, right?
If I look back at, you know, myparenting style, I definitely
(14:01):
fall more into the traps we'rediscussing today than the ones
that we shared last week.
I felt like, you know, I nevermissed an opportunity to provide
a lesson and maybe sometimes Ishould have let it go.
I'm gonna encourage my daughtersto listen into this session.
No, you know that it that I feltresponsible to make sure that
there was always a lesson.
And I think maybe sometimes Icould have backed off and just
(14:24):
asked more questions andlectured a little less.
SPEAKER_04 (14:26):
You want your kids to do well.
You know, and I think that'sthat's the that's the point,
right?
And I could see myself doingsome of this stuff.
Like anybody who knows me said,Man, if people would just do
what I say, their life would begreat, right?
Like I already told you what todo, what's hard?
Why are you doing the opposite?
You know, yeah.
And I think it's because youknow, some of it we have
experience, and maybe we want tosave them from the pain of that
(14:48):
experience, not remembering thatthe pain of that experience is
what gave me the lesson to startwith.
Yeah.
And so maybe that maybe that'spart of the you know why parents
do this.
Just want I want you to I wantyou to do well out of that, then
I forget that I gotta give hugsand I gotta I gotta ask what's
the driving behavior behind oror what are you thinking and
getting their input and stuff.
This is to me similar to thelast one.
(15:09):
I was I was almost gonna make anexample about a coach, right?
That's that's training thisperfect athlete because maybe
they were an athlete, right?
So the same thing, right?
Life life is a coach to us.
I want to spare my kids lots ofpain.
Yeah, but that's the only waythey're gonna get stronger is
through that youth stress of oflearning and and making their
little mistakes.
SPEAKER_02 (15:28):
Yeah, rarely do people learn from other people's
mistakes, right?
Occasionally, and we all want togive that advice and for
somebody to learn because we didit the hard way, we're trying to
help them out.
It just really doesn't work thatway in most situations.
SPEAKER_04 (15:42):
Yeah, I even find myself doing that in leadership,
right?
I you know, I've done that job,right?
And they they're telling methese problems, and I'm just
like, well, you know, when Iwhen I did this, this is what I
used to do.
You know what I mean?
And I and I'm trying to getbetter about that because I just
want to help.
And so I I see that as similarto this, right?
They're but they're not myemployees, these kids, they're
they're my kids, and we we gottawe gotta also give them a bunch
(16:03):
of affection and and love.
SPEAKER_03 (16:04):
So it might be some common behaviors that would
result from this style ofparenting.
SPEAKER_02 (16:08):
I think sometimes it's real real easy for kids to
tune us out when they feel likelife is just a a lecture and to
seek affection from someone elsein their life, right?
If if if we're that overbearingperformance coach all the time
and they tune us out, they mayagain, they may seek a positive
or a negative relationship witha different adult to get that
need met.
SPEAKER_04 (16:28):
Yeah, that's where I was gonna go with this too, is I
I think that when I am just acoach, right, and I leave my
coach, I don't have to do thethings my coach says.
Right.
And and I thought of what what Isaid earlier about sometimes
I'll g I would give advice to mykids and they do the complete
opposite or don't listen, right?
Well, it's because maybe in thetime I'm not in a place where
maybe relationally they cantrust what I'm gonna say, right?
(16:50):
Because you know, you're you'realways right, dad, or you're
whatever, you know.
And so I think when they connectwith you and they trust you,
then maybe they're more likelyto to take some advice.
Because I think there are verypositive times to give advice,
especially when they ask you forit.
Maybe unsolicited advice isn'talways the best, but I I did
like that example, Suzanne.
SPEAKER_03 (17:07):
All right, here's another closely related one.
The goal line parenting.
The ends justify the method, theparents laser focused on results
like college, scholarships,obedience, career, and success,
relationships and emotionaldevelopment will take a back
seat to that finish line.
So, how does this parentingstyle look in practice?
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
Overall, it looks as if the parents are involved, but
it becomes so outcome-focused,outcome-driven that similarly to
the last trap, sometimes missesthe mark.
SPEAKER_04 (17:35):
When I brought home a C in the sixth grade for the
first time, I was hiding.
I didn't know what to do with myfirst one.
Everybody, you know, everyeverybody was expecting the
straight A's, A's, B's, and uh,I didn't know what to do with my
first C.
And some of that is that.
I mean, I think I'm I felt likeI was letting the family down
because of the high expectationthat I had or that they had for
me that maybe isn't alwaysrealistic.
SPEAKER_02 (17:55):
I I think you have you have to realize that every
child is different, even withinthe same family, right?
And so what's an appropriategoal for one child may not be an
appropriate goal for anotherchild.
I think sometimes you also haveto set, you know, a lot of
parents want to live vicariouslythrough their children and their
children's accomplishments.
And I think you have to set yourown desires for that child aside
(18:18):
and let them make some lifechoices on their own, good or
bad.
Again, sometimes kids are gonnafail.
And what's our response to that,right?
The the way we respond to thatchild and support them when they
bring home that C can be waymore important than the checkbox
of achieving a certain goal.
And and like Emily said earlier,it can lead to perfectionism or,
(18:41):
you know, performance-basedbehavior.
That relationship and emotionaldevelopment, the importance of
that can't be overlooked, right?
Like we we talk a lot about inthe work that we do.
Of course, we're working withchildren and families around our
campus, but we, it's imperativefor our jobs that we have that
emotional intelligence.
And you can certainly tell whenyou interview potential staff if
(19:03):
they have emotional intelligenceor if that's been missing.
And I think that that mostindustries, even those that are
different from childcare, whichis our industry, would tell you
that a certain level ofemotional intelligence is really
important.
That's how you learn how to getalong with your coworkers,
right?
And how you learn to resolve aconflict with your boss.
When those things haven't beennurtured and grown through that
(19:26):
relationship with a parent andchild, it's gonna hinder some of
their performance later in lifeon the job.
SPEAKER_04 (19:32):
Some of the things I've seen too is uh when parents
then don't realize their kidsare all different individuals.
Yeah.
And then comparisons happen.
So why can't you be like him?
Or she brings home straight A'sall the time, or you know, so
these comparisons happen whichcreate conflict within maybe
even the sibling group or withinthe family unit, because every
(19:53):
kid's not the same and they allhave their different strengths.
So my brothers have completelydifferent personalities and
strengths than I do.
The fact that I was just giftedwith a little more intelligent,
that's not their fault.
And you know, I would alwayshear that, right?
I would always hear, well, Sammybrought home straight A.
He said, My brother, Sammy said,you know, you know, if my
brother ever hears this, he'lllaugh about it because we talk
about it all the time.
(20:13):
Mom likes you more.
And they're like, no, she likesyou more.
You know, so right, it createsthis kind of subtle competition.
Probably doesn't need to bethere all the time.
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
No, one of my children as a young adult was
was kind of frustrating with,you know, frustrated in her
college classes.
And and she said, My friend andI were talking and so stressful.
And I said, Tell me what what'sso stressful.
And she said, Well, you won't behappy if I don't go to college
and finish a degree.
And I said, Well, I'm sorry thatI gave you that impression.
Like, let me tell you that inthe big scheme of things, I
(20:42):
don't care.
That was my pathway.
That's what I felt like I neededto do to accomplish the goal
that, you know, that I wasinterested in.
I said, but I could care less ifyou go to college or not.
What you know, what I want foryou is to be happy.
I want you to be a Christian andbe kind to other people.
And I want you to have a jobthat allows you to support
yourself without having to relyon another person.
(21:03):
I don't want you to have two orthree jobs, or I don't want you
to have to feel like you gethave to get married in order to
support.
I want you to beself-sufficient.
But beyond that, there are somany pathways to do that.
I don't care.
And I hope that that was arelief, right?
And so I think sometimes ourkids have the impression that we
have these maybe we do havethese expectations, right?
Or even if we don't, the kidsfeel that kind of pressure,
(21:24):
right?
Especially if that's all theirfriends are going that college
pathway or all, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (21:29):
Yeah, something that's been rolling around in my
mind is something you said onthe last podcast is that you
only get to be a kid for a very,very short amount of time.
And if you're doing this styleof parenting, you're really
robbing the kid of being able tobe a kid.
Yeah, you parentify them pretty,pretty quickly.
So what's what might be somecommon behaviors that would
result from this style ofparenting?
SPEAKER_00 (21:50):
I think maybe one could be just confusion when you
fail.
Is there a lack of love when youfail, or who am I?
Because I was so good at thisbefore and maybe not so good at
something different now.
SPEAKER_04 (22:00):
Oh, I you see it on TV all the time, the cold
perfectionist.
I'm better, you know, I knowmore, I'm expected to be
perfect, and it's all a facade,you know, to to keep up an
appearance that maybe they don'tbelieve in, but that they're
expected to be.
SPEAKER_02 (22:14):
There may be some rebellion from that too.
Once, you know, if you've beenpressured into this, once you
have control over your own life,you may you may decide to be
rebellious and take a differentpathway.
Out of spite or something.
Yeah, it could be.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
Or out of burnout.
Yeah.
It's exhausting to be perfect.
Yeah.
You're right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:32):
You're right.
SPEAKER_03 (22:33):
All right.
Here's another one that'ssimilar to the last two, the
trophy trap.
This parent celebratesaccomplishments, but kind of
overlooks character.
Winning and achieving or beingthe best becomes or the only
metric that matters.
Your worth is what you win.
So what type of how would youdescribe this style of
parenting?
SPEAKER_02 (22:49):
Well, you really see this in children's sports.
Yeah.
Right.
And so from T ball to littleleague to, you know, we're
talking about young children andparents who are losing their
minds over, you know, theirchild isn't getting enough
playtime, or they saw that thecoach corrected their child and
(23:11):
they didn't like it, or the refcalled a foul and they don't
like that.
And the parents just kind oflose their minds over that.
And and the message that thatsends to the child is, you know,
I have I I'm only worth what Iwin, right?
Exactly what the description ofthat said.
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
It's all about being the best.
SPEAKER_02 (23:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Whether you really are the bestor not, right?
I mean, you're the best becauseyour parents are putting
pressure on coaches and refs toensure that you you are the
best.
And and it's sad to me for kidsto think it's I'm only important
if I win, you know, but I don'thave any real worth or I'm not
truly loved unless I'm the best,the first, the fastest.
SPEAKER_04 (23:50):
Yeah.
Even the kid makes a mistake,what's happening to them?
It has nothing to do with theref.
They make a mistake, or maybethey were tired that day and are
they getting are they gettingsome feedback on the way home or
something that's like that?
SPEAKER_03 (24:02):
I'm a pretty competitive person.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
That's that understatement.
SPEAKER_03 (24:06):
And I had to try really, really hard not to to do
this one.
Thankfully, my wife is not acompetitive person, and she had
she was a bit of a buffer onthis.
And one thing she was alwaysmaking sure to talk to our girls
and that I would talk to thegirls about after a game where
maybe they messed up or anythinglike that was just let them know
that I enjoyed watching themplay and it was a f it was fun
to see them out there doingthings.
(24:27):
Um yeah, but I it I'm feeling alittle convicted on this one,
but it it is really an easy oneto kind of slip into,
well-intentioned or not.
So, what are some of thebehaviors that might happen a
kid might exhibit because ofthis this style of behavior this
style of parenting?
SPEAKER_04 (24:42):
Well, they they might be tired a lot.
Yeah.
The kids.
They also might be injured alot.
unknown (24:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (24:47):
Whether it's or sick a lot, because you know, I think
if you're doing something youdon't like doing, you're not
gonna really want to do it or doit well.
SPEAKER_05 (24:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (24:54):
So maybe there's all these illnesses that happen and
things like that.
I don't know.
I'm I'm guessing here.
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Yeah, Suzanne, you said whether they're good at it
or not, it could look likeover-identifying with their
performance.
I think that's true.
SPEAKER_02 (25:05):
I I think too, I can remember when my my oldest was,
you know, say five or six, andshe went to a gymnastics class
once a week.
And I overheard another parentsaying, you know, on Mondays we
do gymnastics and on Tuesdays wedo ballet, and on Wednesdays we
do soccer, and on Thursdays wehave track practice, and on
Fridays we and it was every dayof the week.
And I thought, how exhaustingfor the parent, for the child,
(25:28):
for their pocketbook, you know,that at some point kids need
time just to be kids and to playand to relax.
And I see, again, this doesn'tonly refer to sports, but I
think it just is applicablehere, right?
That you can become too obsessedwith this, right?
And and kids, even middle schoolkids and high school kids need
(25:49):
some time to rest and relax andrecuperate and not not be all
consumed with an activity,whatever that activity is.
SPEAKER_03 (25:58):
I think sometimes kids will also, because the
winning matters the most, willdo inappropriate things to win.
SPEAKER_05 (26:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:06):
Take shortcuts, they'll cheat, they'll do
whatever it takes, alienatefriends, family members.
I mean, it's it can be prettyrough.
That pressure can be reallyrough on the kids and the their
behaviors may spiral into thingsthat they normally wouldn't do.
SPEAKER_04 (26:18):
Yeah, fake, fake and or or not reveal an injury or
play through exhaustion.
Like it's some of that, but notthat any of that's positive,
man.
We understand having grit, butyou know, they'll hide an injury
and things, you know.
All the things you see go intodrug use or or anything like
that.
You're right.
The mask, you know, steroids,whatever people do, and that
that's uh immense amount ofpressure.
SPEAKER_00 (26:39):
There could be a lot of struggles with self-worth
when not achieving well enough.
SPEAKER_03 (26:43):
All right.
Tell me about this one thelockdown parenting.
Safety over trust.
In response to fear, this parentheavily restricts the child's
exposure to the world oftechnology, social situations,
and even friendships.
So, what does this style ofparenting look like?
SPEAKER_04 (26:57):
This is, you know, and this is a fear thing, like
you just said, I think isinteresting.
When I when I was growing up, Iwas I was co-parenting with my
mom and my my grand my greatgrandmother.
And she was a lockdown person.
She was like, I should have toknow where I was at all times.
Where my mom was more like, hey,I go play, you know, but but I
mean I I couldn't be gone 10minutes and I'm getting called
to check on me.
(27:17):
What am I doing?
And where you know, and I'm justin the backyard, right?
And so it's just this, yeah, andI know thinking back now, I
think she was just she wasscared, you know.
You know, she loves me and Iknew she did, and I think she
was worried about things couldhappen.
Also, I found out later we livedin a bad neighborhood, so she
had a really good reason to notnot get it.
You didn't know how I could justwalk in the street and ride my
bike, and no, because thesecrazy people just drove down the
(27:39):
street like crazy.
And and you know, so I Irealized that being an older
when I became a teenager, shekind of explained it to me, but
it it did feel like lockdown.
So, what does that mean?
That means like all my otherfriends can play, but I always
gotta be coming back.
And I think that's where likesometimes it h it hurts your
self-confidence, I think, as akid.
Like I didn't get to play aslong or as much as other kids at
times, you know, because she wasactually uh more of my primary
(28:01):
at the time.
My mom had to work a lot, so Iwas with my grandmother when I
was young.
SPEAKER_03 (28:05):
So, what might be some of the common behaviors
that you uh a child wouldexhibit from this parenting
style?
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
I think I think the same being sneaky, right, or
being rebellious.
On our campus, we follow statelicensing regulations and
there's a policy called normalcyand that came out several years
ago.
But but basically what the statesays is that just because a
child lives in an out-of-homeplacement doesn't mean they that
it's okay for them to miss outon typical childhood activities,
(28:31):
right?
And historically, say kids infacilities like ours or in
foster care um were supervisedso closely that they never got
to do typical k typical kidthings, right?
And typical teenagers sometimesget to be away from their
parents, right?
They get to be out of adultsupervision and go to the mall
with a friend or go to a moviewith a friend.
Like, and so, you know, we welook at that in our environment
(28:54):
and so that children who areresponsible and developmentally
age appropriate can engage inactivities like that.
And I think that's important forall kids, right?
But you have to know your ownpersonal child.
What, how response are theymature enough to handle a
situation?
Have they exhibitedtrustworthiness in the past?
And I think, you know, that'spart of this when it talks about
(29:16):
safety over trust.
As adults, in order for our kidsto build trust with us, we have
to give them chances to buildtrust.
You can't know if you can trustanother person until you give
them the opportunity to take achance and build that trust with
you.
And so I think as parents, westart, we start and we do that
in small ways.
You know, like Sam said, he hadto check in every 10 minutes,
(29:38):
right?
So maybe we can extend that to15.
Now, if he doesn't come back andcheck in 15 minutes, he hasn't
shown that he's trustworthy,right?
But you know what?
If he checks in at 15 minutesand we try that for a couple of
weeks, well then maybe I canextend it to 20, right?
Like we're giving smallopportunities for kids to build
that trust with us.
We also have to know thatbecause they're kids and their
cortex isn't fully developed.
(30:00):
Sometimes they're gonna mess up.
They're gonna get so involved inplaying that they didn't look at
the clock and they forgot at 20minutes, right?
That doesn't mean that we goback into lockdown.
We have a conversation about it.
We keep working on building thattrust.
And I think that's so important.
You know, one of the things thatyour definition referenced was
technology.
And that's a really hard onetoo.
(30:20):
I think, I think there are a lotof dangers in technology and
that it takes a lot of parentalsupervision to use that wisely.
But again, if you are willing totake those steps to check in
with your kid and to check theirphone, check what they're doing
on social media, then you'regiving them opportunities to
build that trust with you.
SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
All right, finally, let's talk about the ruler trap.
Rules matter more thanrelationship.
The parent has a strict code ofbehavior that holds everyone to
it, no exceptions.
Grace is rare, rules areabsolute, mistakes often bring
shame, not learning.
How does this style of parentinglook?
SPEAKER_04 (30:53):
I respect what this parent's trying to do, right?
I I respect that everywhere yougo, there's rules.
In fact, they're posted mostplaces you go, right?
And and uh they're written inwhen you go to work, they're
written down in a big policyabout all the rules you have,
right?
So I I respect what they'retrying to do, but it's like we
said before, there's there's nota perfect, there's not a rule
for everything.
I mean, there's just not.
SPEAKER_05 (31:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (31:13):
I mean, we people gotta learn how to operate one
in the gray when there is grayarea in in something, right?
The don't do XYZ.
That's simple, but there's alsomoral dilemmas people gotta
learn to deal with.
There's, you know, uh all theseother things that they just
don't fall in a rule set.
Like, what's the right thing todo in this situation?
And that's where we gotta teach,right?
It's a difference, right?
We we gotta teach the stuff, andit's important, uh, it's
(31:34):
important to know rules and havestructure for kids, but they
also gotta have the ability tomess up a little bit.
SPEAKER_02 (31:39):
I think sometimes people that fall into this trap
really want to apply the rulesto other people, but when they
violate the rules themselves,they want grace.
Right?
They're the first ones to say,oh, please give me another
chance or please forgive me or Ior I messed up.
And so that that grace is soimportant, not only for us, but
for us to extend it to otherpeople in those situations,
(32:01):
especially kids, right?
Because kids are learning,they're still developing,
they're still figuring out howthings work.
And they can't they can't learnthat if they're never allowed to
mess up.
And and especially if there isshame that comes with a mistake
rather than grace.
SPEAKER_03 (32:16):
So, what might be some common behaviors that kids
may exhibit from this style ofparenting?
SPEAKER_02 (32:20):
I think this is a perfect recipe for anxiety in a
child, right?
Being anxious about making amistake, about am I doing it the
correct way?
And like Sam and Emily both saidearlier, when you when you're so
afraid of making a mistake, youdon't have a lot of
self-confidence in your owncapacity to make a good
decision.
SPEAKER_04 (32:37):
Well, also if there is no grace, and what's the
point of doing the right thing?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
At some point, children aren'tsmall and they're not children
forever, and they're as as theyget into their emotional brain,
as they become teenagers,they're gonna start testing
limits just naturally.
And however these parentscontrol could could fail.
I mean, if it if it's physicalcontrol, that that could fail.
(32:59):
Because at some point kidsaren't scared of your parents
anymore.
And I'm not saying you need tobe, or maybe there'd be a lack
of respect because you don't youdon't listen to what I say
anyway.
So I'm gonna try what's I thinkis bet the best thing to do.
And I uh there has to be graceor there's no point.
I want to get in trouble anyway.
I might as well go all the way.
Yeah, and do the thing, right?
SPEAKER_00 (33:17):
You know, and you said lack of respect.
It could also be lack of respectfor the importance of rules and
boundaries too without knowingwhy my parents created these
rules and boundaries.
I think that could go into theoutside world too, just not
respecting other people's rulesand boundaries.
SPEAKER_02 (33:33):
When adults set the rules, they make perfect sense
to us, but they don't alwaysmake sense to kids, right?
They don't understand thehistory or the reasoning or the
context.
And so it's so important for usto explain the purpose or the
reasoning behind rules to kids.
SPEAKER_03 (33:50):
So what happens in the long run when parents
enforce rules without building arelationship?
SPEAKER_02 (33:54):
You know, I can remember when I when I was new
working in this in this fieldand and a staff member said,
hey, there's there's twoextremes, rules at one end and
relationship at the other.
And if it's all relationship, itkind of it kind of turns into
that grandparenting style ofparenting where, you know, yes,
darling, here's some more icecream before dinner, like
(34:14):
whatever you want, you can do nowrong, right?
Versus that boot camps drillsergeant type of, you know, it's
all about rules.
And in reality, somewhere inbetween is a healthier blend,
right?
You know, so we talked about atthe last podcast permissive
parenting, and now we're talkingabout authoritarian parenting.
And most of us are somewhere onthat spectrum in the middle, but
(34:36):
the most effective is to parentthrough relationship in the
context of rules.
Again, they say that kids don'tcare how much you know until
they know how much you care.
So if you've taken the time andeffort to build a relationship,
a positive, secure, healthyrelationship with your child,
it's much easier for them tounderstand the point of the
rules, you know, because theyknow that you're parenting out
(34:58):
of love and concern for them.
SPEAKER_04 (35:00):
Yeah, I said this earlier.
I mean, I I I knowunconditionally that my mom
loved me.
Yeah.
And my mom was very good aboutexplaining the why of things.
And sometimes I demanded it,right?
I'm I'm getting older, you know,and I was in charge of a lot of
things when I was a youngteenager.
I had a young brother that Ihelped care for.
And so these responsibilitiesget thrust, but so there's rules
that come with it, right?
I got this baby's gotta survive.
(35:21):
Right.
And so I'm giving the strict,hey, here's how you do it,
here's what time I need you.
Also, she also told us why, youknow, I need you to be an
earshot or I need you to, youknow, why you can't go to the
here or don't go to that house.
Like she knew things I wasn'tprivy to.
And maybe when I was younger, Ididn't need to know those
things.
But as I got older, she sharedthose things.
I could respect my mom andfollow the rules my mom set
(35:42):
because she loved me and I knewthat she was she had the best
intentions.
Did I always agree?
No.
I got to see my friends go dothings that I couldn't go do,
some sleepovers.
It was absolutely no.
Yeah.
And maybe she was for respectingprivacy or whatever of those
people.
I find out later that it, yeah,it's probably a good reason I
she didn't let me go to thehouse.
Yeah.
She just knew that she knew thecommunity, she knows the people
in the community, and that Idon't know.
(36:04):
I'm young and I'm just freeing,trying to get free as a
teenager.
And uh, I just thought that wasreally cool because I can see it
today that she was just tryingto pre- everything, every rule
had a reason, and it was for myprotection and for my brother's
protection and you know, ourfamily's protection, and and
also so I don't get in trouble.
And you know, I she didn't wantme to feel what it's like to get
handcuffed or right.
(36:24):
So hey, you can't do XYZ.
No, we don't do that in thestore.
No, we don't, right?
From the time I was a little boyinto the time I became I was a
man, right?
So the other part of it isthrough all that growth, right,
with all that respect, it it ittaught me how to kind of be in
society.
Yeah.
And so I could transition easierto other parts of like going to
school wasn't hard for mebecause I had structure and I
(36:44):
had rules, you know.
So there was just this balance,you know.
It was harder at school,actually, because I didn't have
a relationship with theteachers.
SPEAKER_05 (36:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (36:50):
You know, they're just telling me what to do.
And I and I you know, like,well, who are you to tell me?
You know, you're not my mom,you're not my mom, and my mom's
scarier than you for sure.
You know, but you know, so Ithink that's just a perfect
example of that.
SPEAKER_02 (37:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (37:01):
Uh that relationship is the only reason I really did
what my mom asked me to do.
Yeah.
And she also enforced it if Ididn't.
unknown (37:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (37:09):
Right.
There was a there was aconsequence for me if I did if I
didn't at times.
SPEAKER_03 (37:13):
I remember in a previous podcast, we were
talking about parenting from age25 to 35.
And one of the beautiful thingsI heard the other panelists talk
about was the relationship thatyou get to have with your kid
once they become that age.
But I wonder what happens ifyou're all authoritarian from
birth to 18.
Do you get to experience thatthat beautiful friendship once
(37:33):
they're once they're older, ifthe kids just wash their hands
with parents.
I've seen that happen with someuh friends where they their kids
go off and they they don't talkto them anymore and don't have a
relationship.
And I it just seems very, verysad to me.
SPEAKER_02 (37:45):
You know, one of the things we tell all of our staff
here on campus is that the mostimportant tool that you have at
your disposal is building arelationship with these
residents, right?
More than anything else I everteach you in a class, if I can
convince you to build arelationship with the children
that you care for, you will haveinfluence over their decisions
(38:06):
and over their behavior.
And but the only way to do it isby relationship.
SPEAKER_03 (38:10):
So what does healthy authority look like in a
parent-child relationship?
Because parents do need to be inthe role of authority, right?
SPEAKER_00 (38:17):
It's saying I'm in charge, but I still care about
your feelings and emotions.
Right.
At the beginning, I mentioned myparents were very structured,
probably strict, but at the endof the day, I could still feel
that they cared about myfeelings and emotions, which has
brought me to that age group youwere previously talking about
and the beautiful relationship Ido get to have with my parents
now.
SPEAKER_02 (38:37):
Yeah.
Josh, earlier you mentionedcooperation versus control.
And so I think, you know, whenkids have some input into the
rules, they have more buy-in,right?
And so kids don't get to set therules, but could we get their
input?
Could we ask them, hey, youknow, hey, what do you think
about this?
Or if a kid is saying, I don'tlike that rule, okay, how could
we compromise?
Could we do that, right?
(38:58):
But bringing them into thatdiscussion, into that role of
decision making, you cooperateand you compromise on a rule and
then you ask the child, hey, ifyou break that rule, what should
the consequence be?
Right.
So they're brought into thatpart of it too.
And that helps strengthen theircortex.
It helps them withdecision-making skills.
If you can share that powerinstead of, you know, grasping
(39:20):
it for yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (39:21):
And it helps them learn from their mistakes.
SPEAKER_04 (39:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think healthy authority alsohas to be evolutionary.
I talked about earlier when Iwas young, I needed a lot more
structure.
I needed a lot more being toldwhat to do.
And right, and so as I gotolder, uh, it was let loose a
little bit.
And also I'd proven that I canoverall do the things I said I
was gonna do.
Yeah, I make decent decisions,all based on my training for my
(39:44):
mom, right?
Yeah and my you know, and I Ithink that it's used the
consistency of that.
I always knew I can more I can90% guess what the answer was
gonna be.
Also, we were on an ask system.
I I I had to ask permission todo things, I didn't just walk
out of the house for obvious forthe reasons I said earlier.
I can't just leave the house andjust disappear down the
neighborhood.
Yeah.
I had to say, Mom, I'm going toXYZ's house.
(40:05):
And sure, you know, okay, beback by XYZ.
Okay.
And so, right, so it's it's coolbecause you know, she was the
boss, and I knew she was theboss, and I have to eat.
She's also the cook, right?
So I'll just playing, but youknow, she you know, she was
looking out for us and we knewit, and I think that's that's
healthy.
She also evolved with the timeswhen she realized, hey, I was I
(40:26):
was the oldest, right?
So I'm the one that had to gothrough the training.
SPEAKER_02 (40:29):
She learned on you.
SPEAKER_04 (40:30):
Yeah, because right at some point she had to realize
I'm not a I'm not a big, youknow, I'm not little anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (40:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (40:35):
I need a little more freedom.
And luckily, my mom was able tomake that distinction and and
create that and give me a littlemore freedoms.
SPEAKER_02 (40:42):
Sam, we're gonna send a copy of this to your mom
from Mother's Day.
It's very sweet.
Yeah, yeah, we can tell.
It's very wonderful.
SPEAKER_03 (40:49):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
If you'd like to contact us andask us a question or email, our
address is podcast atcalfarley.org.
I'll make sure I'll leave a linkin the description.
As always, you might have toloan out your frontal lobes
today.
Just make sure you remember andget them back.
SPEAKER_01 (41:03):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about CalFarley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
calfarly.org.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
(41:26):
CalFarley's.
Thank you for spending your timewith us and have a blessed day.
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