May 13, 2025 • 25 mins
Parenting doesn't end at 18—it evolves into supporting young adults who have adult freedom but still-developing brains through age 25.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys
Ranch podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions, utilizing theknowledge, experience and
(00:24):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to offer
.
Now here is your host, CalFarley's Staff Development
Coordinator, Joshua Sprock.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome everyone and thank you for joining us today
as we look at another aspect ofour parenting adventure.
Today, we're going to discussparenting through the years 18
to 25.
To do that, I'm joined today byKim Reeves, our Vice President
of Alumni and CommunityRelations.
Hello, Jesse Poppy, one of ourhouse parents out here.
Hello, Sandy Poppy.
Hello, and Mike Wilhelm Helloeveryone.
Kim Jesse, Sandy, I've invitedyou on the show today not only
(00:56):
because you've raised your ownbiological children into
adulthood, but you've alsohelped raise a lot of other kids
into adulthood.
Would you mind telling ourlisteners a little about what
you do at Boys Ranch?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, one of the things that I do for Boys Ranch
is I work in our alumni supportdepartment where we help former
residents of our programsgenerally they are between 18
and 25, transition from thecampus into adulthood.
We do have a housing programwhere they can live and have
case management through ourservices.
So we do work a lot with thisparticular population.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So you've probably seen and heard a lot of things
from kids this age.
I have.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I have, as well as my own children.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, sandy and Jesse.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
We're house parents and we are house parents to kids
in an adolescent home, girls inan adolescent home, and we've
worked with Cal Farley's for alot of years and we have two
adult children of our own.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So you also probably have a lot of experience.
I bet a lot of the kids whoyou've helped raise call you
quite a bit asking for help andadvice.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Yes, sir, we stay in touch with a lot of our alumni
really regularly and try toanswer all their questions and
help them out.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
As we do each week.
Let's start by jumping into ourquestion of the day, since
we're talking about our adultchildren, age 18 to 25, what
would you say is the dumbestthing you've done PG-rated of
course when you were age 18 to25?
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Although it's kind of hard to enumerate those bad
decisions.
But I'll preface it with sayingthat for every bad decision
came a life lesson, and in thelong run it was maybe not all
that bad of a decision.
But I'd already dropped out ofcollege.
I was working for a soda popcompany as a deliverer and was
making really good money at thetime, and on a whim I quit my
(02:47):
job and a friend and I went tothe Pecos Wilderness to stay as
long as we could, and it turnedout to be about nine days, and
then I had to rejoin society andfind another job and move on
with my life.
Speaker 6 (02:53):
Did you run out of peanut butter and jelly
sandwiches, or what?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
That'd make me want to come back to civilization too
, I think.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Well, I have a story from when I first moved into my
very own apartment and, anyway,the shower head broke off, along
with a large piece of theplaster behind the shower head.
My roommate and I talked aboutit and we decided we liked it
better that way.
There was just this one longpipe that shot water out.
It's like this is great.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
So not only do we not have a problem.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
This is better than what we had.
So, needless to say, we didn'tmake a maintenance report and
anyway, several weeks later, themaintenance man comes to our
door and he said Girls, do y'allhave a leak in here?
And we said, no, we don't haveany kind of leak.
And he said Well, something'shappened Because the apartment
below y'all the ceiling justcaved in.
Oh no, and we looked at eachother oh no, it's the shower.
(03:49):
And then we begged him pleasedon't tell the landlord, please
don't tell.
We didn't realize that waterthe whole time was just running
down the back and onto theceiling below us, and so he
didn't tell us.
But we didn't do that again.
We made sure anytime there was amaintenance problem that we
reported it but we had no ideaand I see my kids, as well as my
VR kids, do things just out ofnot knowing, just a lack of
(04:11):
experience, and so not malicious, just not knowing.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I think that for me, the dumbest thing I did was I
was raised in a home in a smalltown and I really had never
lived in a big city, and Idecided that I would jump out
and go to college far from home,in a big city, with no car, and
the college was a privateChristian university.
So it cost me a lot of moneyand my parents did not really
(04:40):
have the money to send me tocollege, especially there.
So I took out lots of loansagainst my dad's wishes, and it
took me until well past year 25to figure out what a mess I'd
made of my finances.
And I was lonely, far from home.
I didn't have anybody that Iknew, and so it was not my most
(05:01):
successful time in collegeeither.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
Dumbest thing, boy, there's a constellation of dumb
things.
Yeah, but Josh says PG ratedand that narrows it down quite a
bit.
Just a dumb thing was, likeJesse mentioned, dropping out of
college.
Well, I stopped going to classwhen I was at college and that
(05:32):
really didn't work very well.
Yeah, so I ended up bouncingout of college, so that would be
a rank amongst the dumberthings I did when I was in that
age.
It's rated PG, but I never wentout to the wilderness with
oatmeal like you, jesse.
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So when your child turns 18, you're done parenting
right.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's when the hard part really starts.
I've heard it said keep themalive until they're 25.
Can you talk about what thatsaying means and why it's so
important?
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Well, I think here at Cal Farley's we would tell you
that that's related to the factthat by the time they're 25,
their brain has had time tomature further than it is at 18.
And, believe me, it'sdefinitely not mature at 18.
It is at 18.
And, believe me, it'sdefinitely not mature at 18.
And so if we can manage to helpthem survive that long, then
hopefully there's a chance forthem to become the productive
(06:17):
citizens and adults that we areall dreaming that they'll be.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, I think 18 to 25 was probably equally the best
and the hardest time of my life.
So, as a parent, how do youwatch your children go through
these highs and lows and how doyou know when and when not to
get involved?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I think it varies with each child.
I think it's a little bitdifferent, but when there are
lows, I do feel compelled to bethe person to reach out and not
wait for them necessarily tocome to me.
I think a lot of times thatkids think once they turn 18 and
through 25, that they shouldhave things figured out, that
they should have things figuredout, that they should know how
(06:53):
to do things.
They're legally an adult and Itry to tell kids all the time
it's okay, none of us knew whatto do and you haven't failed.
I hear that word a lot.
I failed and I always say we'renot going to have that in our
vocabulary.
All it is is you were justgathering experience so that you
didn't have enough informationbefore to make the best decision
(07:13):
.
And so I think it's important toreassure them that we don't
expect for them to haveeverything figured out just
because they turned 18.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
We sort of act like because they turned 18, the
world tells them they're grown.
They tell us they're grown andthat they don't need us anymore.
But the truth is we don't haveterminology for it, so I'm going
to create a term here.
They're really taught adults.
They're just toddlers learningto be adults.
They're not grown yet.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Sandy, it's so funny that you say that, because I
have always likened this agegroup to toddlers, because with
a toddler they have all thismobility, they can run, they can
walk, they can walk but theydon't have reasoning enough to
keep them safe, to keep thingsout of their mouth.
You have to watch them all thetime.
With this age group they haveso much freedom and independence
, but they still don't have thebrain development to not take
(08:03):
risks and to make the decisionsthat they need to.
So I've always said they arejust like toddlers.
I love that terminology.
I'm glad you made that.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
And not the skill set either.
No, they don't Just like astoddlers.
Toddlers are learning to walk,they're learning to feed
themselves, they're learning allthose things.
This group of kids in this agecategory are learning to be
adults.
They're not really there yet,and some days what I have found.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Some days they're more like children and some days
they're more like children andsome days they're more like
adults.
And I think it's important forus to have the flexibility to
kind of move through thosestates with them and try to
figure out are you more a childtoday, or are you more an adult?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So what should you do , or maybe not do, to help
support your 18 to 24 year oldchild?
Speaker 5 (08:45):
I think that with our own children, we gave them a
base to work off of, we raisedthem to be able to make choices
and to understand decisionmaking, and so you would call
upon those skills that you knowyou've given those kids before
they turned 18.
As we are house parents forkids that didn't have our
(09:08):
experiences growing up,sometimes we have to get in a
little deeper, a little quicker,because one we don't know that
they have the background tosolve the problem and the life
experience that they need tofigure it out.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Yeah, I was thinking, josh, this seems like the big
thing is to be available, andit's so easy in this transition
to have a great need for controland be reactive, and so easy
for bridges to get burnt but tobe a safe sounding board and to
continue, no matter how far offin left field they might seem to
(09:47):
be, to take a deep breath andmake sure that the relationship
doesn't rupture.
So, because they're going toneed us right.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
So why are boundaries important to establish during
this time period?
Speaker 4 (09:58):
I think they're important to establish all the
time, but maybe especiallyduring this time period, because
as parents, it's our desire tosee them succeed and sometimes
we even take their failures asour own failures and we take
their mistakes and the timesthey mess up and we blame
ourselves for it and we thinkit's a reflection of us.
(10:20):
So I think it's reallyimportant to understand that
this is my child, who islearning how to do life, and
they're going to make mistakes,just like I did, and so I have
to have boundaries.
I can't rescue them from everybad decision they make, but I
can walk side by side with themthrough the fallout of that bad
decision.
There is fallout and they needto know that we're still going
(10:42):
to be there for them.
So it's like being presentwithout being in charge.
Speaker 6 (10:47):
That's good Be present without being in charge.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I bet that's easier said than done sometimes, though
Absolutely so.
How would y'all advise ourlisteners to set up and
establish these boundaries?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
No, I think it's important that those
conversations happen early andyou know that you don't wait
until they're 18 to talk aboutwhat the expectations are.
I think it's important to setthose parameters, you know,
maybe when they're still underyour roof, but it's still a
parent-child relationship evenwhen they turn 18.
And if they do have to moveback to talk about, you know
(11:20):
you're going to do your ownlaundry, you know.
But I love what you said beingavailable without being in
charge.
Also, to make sure that, like Isaid, I think those
conversations have to happenearly and maybe have to be
repeated.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
Boy, that's a great, that's a great point.
And I don't know, boy, I knowthat we I'm thinking about
myself we just we didn't do sowell in that.
But to start early, but whatwould you say to a listener
who's right now, just in themidst of this, didn't have those
early discussions, and howwould they start setting up
boundaries?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Think of communication, you know, in a
non-hostile, non-judgmental way.
Have those conversations assoon as possible.
If you're in that positionright now.
Have them right now, before youget angry because of some
boundary that they have crossedbut they didn't even know was
there, because of some boundarythat they have crossed but they
didn't even know was there.
And so, because anger is no, noone wears that well and we
(12:15):
never have our bestconversations to be respectful
to each other and just give eachother some space.
Adult children need more space.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
They need more space.
What would you do to help youryoung adult when they fail?
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Well, I don't think it's helpful to point out that
they fail.
I think that they generallyknow they fail.
So both with our own childrenand with the kids that we've
raised at Cal Farley's, I justwe try to be present and we see
them floundering and a lot oftimes I might say reach out to
them and say, hey, you want toget together and talk for a
(12:50):
while?
Or I haven't heard from youlately, how's it going?
You know, and most of the timethey will just spill their
hearts to you about what's goingon.
But they just needed somebodyto be willing to reach out and
open that door for them, becausethey're still not great at that
and so that's hard for them.
So be there and open the doorfor conversation.
If they're willing to hearadvice, you can share advice or
(13:12):
possible choices with them.
But they have to make theultimate choice about how
they're going to deal with that.
And just to know that you'regoing to keep loving them no
matter what, that's I was goingto say too.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I think, especially with the alumni that we work
with, when they have what theyperceive as a failure I said I
hate that, I don't like thatword because I think it's just a
matter of not having all theinformation or the skill set to
make the right decision.
But often they feel soembarrassed or that they feel
that they've disappointed us andthat they don't want to reach
out.
And so, yes, being present andalways one of our mottos in
(13:47):
alumni support is love them asunconditionally as is humanly
possible and let them know that,let them know that.
And so if it's as unconditionalas is humanly possible, that
whatever mistake, it's not goingto impact that relationship
negatively.
It's a no-judgment zone.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Yes, I think that it's important also that in the
discussion with them, that theyalready feel guilty about what
they've done.
They know they failed.
They don't need you to confirmthat they failed.
What they need to know is thatyou heard them, and so we have a
technique called reflectivelistening, and that is we're not
(14:27):
thinking about what we're goingto say next to them.
We're thinking about whatthey're saying and then we
repeat parts of it to make surethat we're on the same page,
that they're on, so that we canguide them the right direction
when it's time for the guidanceto come in, if they're open to
guidance.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
Boy, and there's a great, there's a landmine here.
You can step on pretty quick,isn't there?
Because if you've been watchingthis thing, this train wreck
unfold, and if you're notvigilant, not aware of how
frustrated you are and angry youare, what you want to do is,
bam, as soon as they go there,you're going to want to pile on
(15:04):
right, and that's going to shortcircuit the whole process,
isn't it?
And it's going to start toclose the door.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So what's the best way to respond when your child
calls you asking for advice?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
We have a saying in my house that when the kids call
and there's something going on,we say do you need a toolkit or
do you need a bucket?
You know, is it really advicethat you need or do you just
need to vent for a little bit,and sometimes it's both that you
need, or do you just need tovent for a little bit, and
sometimes it's both?
But again, nonjudgmental andjust listen to what their
(15:41):
concerns are and try to maybe bevulnerable and talk about some
of your own experiences in asimilar situation and how the
mistakes that we made in thatkind of situation or what worked
for us.
Speaker 6 (15:50):
You know, if they come asking for advice, that's a
cue that most of us we're goingto be all over that and want to
start to, because we've beenruminating and thinking what
they should be doing right.
And I really think that whenthey come to that point and they
ask to start with a question,can you tell me more about the
(16:11):
situation or what have youlearned right now and let things
open up where they're the onesdoing, talking, and draw them
out, because to jump right intoall this great advice we've had
in our head forever and we justcan't wait to, I think that that
will short circuit the process.
So a good question will drawsome wisdom into the room.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
So what about when you see them obviously
struggling, but they don't cometo you for advice?
Speaker 4 (16:37):
For me, that's a cue to reach out to them and not to
say I see you struggling, but tojust reach out and let them
know hey, I've been thinkingabout you and I care about you.
I wonder how you're doing.
I see you doing thissuccessfully, or that
successfully because then theydon't feel defensive.
Or that successfully becausethen they don't feel defensive
(16:59):
and they don't feel the need to,you know, hide what's going on
from you, or shut the doorbecause they can't listen to
your voice right now, becausetheir own voice is loud enough
in their ears, maybe.
So I think that it's importantthat you reach out.
Always when somebody'sstruggling, we reach out.
When a toddler falls down whilethey're trying to learn to walk
, there is not a single adultthat sits there and waits on
them to just get back up bythemselves If they're on the
(17:20):
floor crying, everybody's likeoh, and they all run to help
this child up.
We need to have that sameresponse to our young adults,
because they're still learningto be adults.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
Yeah, and I would say to be really holding them close
in prayer and then also avoidanother temptation.
And there's another temptationIf we're watching them struggle,
it's pretty easy to get toxicabout it, to ruminate in an
unhealthy way, and then probablyeven worse than that, if we
have a sounding board that's notreally a healthy sounding board
(17:54):
.
We want to share thatfrustration with someone else.
That feeds into a negativenarrative and that can all go
very wrong, where our heartswill get bitter and we're not
going to be very good help forour kids, right.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
I actually asked my soon to be 25 year old daughter
about this question and she saidalways please reach out,
because if I'm in a place whereI can't, I need you to see that
I'm hurting and reach out, butnot in a way that's going to
make me feel more guilty orshame about what's going on.
And again, maybe that goes backto loving them as
(18:30):
unconditionally as humanlypossible and just hear, just
listen, but absolutely to be theperson who reaches out.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
So it's not uncommon for 18 to 25-year-olds to make
life choices or philosophicaldecisions that go against our
own family values.
How would you advise ourlisteners to handle these
situations?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
One of the things that we've talked about in my
family with this is that,because this has happened with
both of my children, mybiological children and if you
can put your ego aside because Ithink sometimes as parents, our
egos start getting bruised andEGO stands for edges got out,
and that's hard but to not takeit personally to ask them about
(19:13):
what it is they feel about thesituation, if they are going
against the values that youraised them with.
Well, tell me about why youbelieve something else.
Tell me more about that.
Let me find out why you'repassionate about this.
And I think it's an opportunityfor us to grow as people if we
will dissect, have the courageto dissect our own values,
(19:35):
because do we believe it justbecause our mom believed it or
our grandmother believed it, oris it something that we really
do hold you know very dear?
But to dissect that and say,okay, this is why I believe this
.
And I think, if you'll allowyour kids to talk to you about
these situations, that it reallyis an opportunity for you to
grow even stronger in your ownbeliefs after you have kind of
(19:58):
dissected those you know, ormaybe question them and say I
never really thought about itlike that.
And so you know, it doesn'tmatter who teaches us, as long
as we learn, and sometimes ourchildren are our teachers.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I think it's important to ask yourself the
questions too, like is thisvalue that I'm holding worth
losing this relationship over?
Because I have watchedrelationships disintegrate over
values that, in five years,would not matter at all to
anyone, and so it really isimportant to ask is this worth
(20:34):
losing this relationship over,and how would God handle this?
How does he handle this?
How does Jesus love us when wego against His values?
Because His request of us isthat we love the way he loves,
and so it means that we have toexamine those things and think
about them and ask ourselvesBecause, at this age, because
(20:55):
these young adults' minds andbrains are not fully developed,
it's a prime opportunity forrelationships to be destroyed,
and sometimes irreparably, andso, as the adult with the mature
brain, we need to think aboutthat carefully and about how to
handle it.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
Oh man, this is such a good question and good and
Sandy and Kim, I appreciate whatyou both said about this Boy to
have friends, alums, that stayin touch, and they're way out
off in left field according tomy belief system and my values.
But what I always want to makecrystal clear one it's a great
(21:34):
opportunity for my soul to growin love and compassion and
understand more of God, theFather's heart.
You know we're told to be kindand compassionate to one another
, forgiving each other, just asin Christ God forgave us.
But to make crystal clear to myfriends that I love you because
you're you.
Okay, I may not agree witheverything that you do or
(21:57):
believe, I probably don'tunderstand everything about it
and I don't have everythingright myself, but I want you to
know that I love you becauseyou're you.
And we do not want to burn abridge.
And I've seen a lot of people inthe recent times really go
through some trials around thisthat maybe they've grown up in a
(22:19):
very conservative faithcommunity and then have a child
that is committed to a lifestylethat's way outside of what that
faith community would believeand teach, and I've been
encouraged to see so many ofthem wrestle with this and come
around to this realization thatthis is my child period and
(22:41):
we're not going to burn a bridge.
You're going to come haveChristmas dinner with us and
we're going to do the thingsthat we do and this relationship
transcends all things.
So it's a great challenge and Iknow probably a lot of
listeners are going through someof these challenges, but just
please don't burn those bridges,right.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
All right.
Last question for today and,kim, you kind of hinted at this
Many of our listeners may havechildren who are age 15 to 17
year old right now.
What advice would you give tothese parents to better prepare
them for this next phase of life?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yes, if you can go ahead now and start to have some
conversations early about whatthe expectations are and also, I
think, be sure and give themsome comfort in that they are
going to fall.
They are going to make mistakesas parents.
We are going to fall, we'regoing to make mistakes, but
again, if the focus can be onthat relationship, talk to your
(23:33):
kids about what the expectationsare and understand that any
perceived control that you havehad with your children is about
to probably go away.
And it's hard.
It's hard but to prepareyourself some for that, because
your kids, you don't need toknow when they're this age, 18
(23:53):
and older.
You don't need to knoweverything that they're doing.
We think we do, but we reallydon't.
But it's hard to move from onephase to the next, but it's
doable.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
I agree with Kim, and I think it's important to share
the conversations with yourkids that tell them that, no
matter what you do, no matterwhat decisions you make, choices
you make, how frustrating thesituation might be to me, I'm
always going to love you, I'malways going to choose to have a
relationship with you and we'realways going to be a family.
(24:24):
There's nothing that can changethat, and I think that that's
important to let them know, andI encourage lots of rare Josh,
are you taking notes on this oneI'm going to take?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
so many detailed notes on this.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
I have two 17-year-olds right now so this
is all gravy for me.
Well, it kind of goes back towhat Kim said about the
boundaries and about startingthose conversations early.
But this whole transition, ashas already been said, it's a
doozy.
So lots of front-loading, right, don't wait.
15 to 17-year-olds starttalking about that transition
(24:57):
now.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Well, thank you all for joining us today and make
sure you come back next week.
Until then, remember you mighthave to loan out your frontal
lobes today.
Just make sure you remember toget them back.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about Cal Farley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
(25:28):
calfarleyorg.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
Cal Farley's.
Thank you for spending yourtime with us and have a blessed
day.
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys
Ranch podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions, utilizing theknowledge, experience and
(00:24):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to offer
.
Now here is your host, CalFarley's Staff Development
Coordinator, Joshua Sprock.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome everyone and thank you for joining us today
as we look at another aspect ofour parenting adventure.
Today, we're going to discussparenting through the years 18
to 25.
To do that, I'm joined today byKim Reeves, our Vice President
of Alumni and CommunityRelations.
Hello, Jesse Poppy, one of ourhouse parents out here.
Hello, Sandy Poppy.
Hello, and Mike Wilhelm Helloeveryone.
Kim Jesse, Sandy, I've invitedyou on the show today not only
(00:56):
because you've raised your ownbiological children into
adulthood, but you've alsohelped raise a lot of other kids
into adulthood.
Would you mind telling ourlisteners a little about what
you do at Boys Ranch?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, one of the things that I do for Boys Ranch
is I work in our alumni supportdepartment where we help former
residents of our programsgenerally they are between 18
and 25, transition from thecampus into adulthood.
We do have a housing programwhere they can live and have
case management through ourservices.
So we do work a lot with thisparticular population.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So you've probably seen and heard a lot of things
from kids this age.
I have.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I have, as well as my own children.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, sandy and Jesse.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
We're house parents and we are house parents to kids
in an adolescent home, girls inan adolescent home, and we've
worked with Cal Farley's for alot of years and we have two
adult children of our own.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So you also probably have a lot of experience.
I bet a lot of the kids whoyou've helped raise call you
quite a bit asking for help andadvice.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Yes, sir, we stay in touch with a lot of our alumni
really regularly and try toanswer all their questions and
help them out.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
As we do each week.
Let's start by jumping into ourquestion of the day, since
we're talking about our adultchildren, age 18 to 25, what
would you say is the dumbestthing you've done PG-rated of
course when you were age 18 to25?
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Although it's kind of hard to enumerate those bad
decisions.
But I'll preface it with sayingthat for every bad decision
came a life lesson, and in thelong run it was maybe not all
that bad of a decision.
But I'd already dropped out ofcollege.
I was working for a soda popcompany as a deliverer and was
making really good money at thetime, and on a whim I quit my
(02:47):
job and a friend and I went tothe Pecos Wilderness to stay as
long as we could, and it turnedout to be about nine days, and
then I had to rejoin society andfind another job and move on
with my life.
Speaker 6 (02:53):
Did you run out of peanut butter and jelly
sandwiches, or what?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
That'd make me want to come back to civilization too
, I think.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Well, I have a story from when I first moved into my
very own apartment and, anyway,the shower head broke off, along
with a large piece of theplaster behind the shower head.
My roommate and I talked aboutit and we decided we liked it
better that way.
There was just this one longpipe that shot water out.
It's like this is great.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
So not only do we not have a problem.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
This is better than what we had.
So, needless to say, we didn'tmake a maintenance report and
anyway, several weeks later, themaintenance man comes to our
door and he said Girls, do y'allhave a leak in here?
And we said, no, we don't haveany kind of leak.
And he said Well, something'shappened Because the apartment
below y'all the ceiling justcaved in.
Oh no, and we looked at eachother oh no, it's the shower.
(03:49):
And then we begged him pleasedon't tell the landlord, please
don't tell.
We didn't realize that waterthe whole time was just running
down the back and onto theceiling below us, and so he
didn't tell us.
But we didn't do that again.
We made sure anytime there was amaintenance problem that we
reported it but we had no ideaand I see my kids, as well as my
VR kids, do things just out ofnot knowing, just a lack of
(04:11):
experience, and so not malicious, just not knowing.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I think that for me, the dumbest thing I did was I
was raised in a home in a smalltown and I really had never
lived in a big city, and Idecided that I would jump out
and go to college far from home,in a big city, with no car, and
the college was a privateChristian university.
So it cost me a lot of moneyand my parents did not really
(04:40):
have the money to send me tocollege, especially there.
So I took out lots of loansagainst my dad's wishes, and it
took me until well past year 25to figure out what a mess I'd
made of my finances.
And I was lonely, far from home.
I didn't have anybody that Iknew, and so it was not my most
(05:01):
successful time in collegeeither.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
Dumbest thing, boy, there's a constellation of dumb
things.
Yeah, but Josh says PG ratedand that narrows it down quite a
bit.
Just a dumb thing was, likeJesse mentioned, dropping out of
college.
Well, I stopped going to classwhen I was at college and that
(05:32):
really didn't work very well.
Yeah, so I ended up bouncingout of college, so that would be
a rank amongst the dumberthings I did when I was in that
age.
It's rated PG, but I never wentout to the wilderness with
oatmeal like you, jesse.
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So when your child turns 18, you're done parenting
right.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's when the hard part really starts.
I've heard it said keep themalive until they're 25.
Can you talk about what thatsaying means and why it's so
important?
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Well, I think here at Cal Farley's we would tell you
that that's related to the factthat by the time they're 25,
their brain has had time tomature further than it is at 18.
And, believe me, it'sdefinitely not mature at 18.
It is at 18.
And, believe me, it'sdefinitely not mature at 18.
And so if we can manage to helpthem survive that long, then
hopefully there's a chance forthem to become the productive
(06:17):
citizens and adults that we areall dreaming that they'll be.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, I think 18 to 25 was probably equally the best
and the hardest time of my life.
So, as a parent, how do youwatch your children go through
these highs and lows and how doyou know when and when not to
get involved?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I think it varies with each child.
I think it's a little bitdifferent, but when there are
lows, I do feel compelled to bethe person to reach out and not
wait for them necessarily tocome to me.
I think a lot of times thatkids think once they turn 18 and
through 25, that they shouldhave things figured out, that
they should have things figuredout, that they should know how
(06:53):
to do things.
They're legally an adult and Itry to tell kids all the time
it's okay, none of us knew whatto do and you haven't failed.
I hear that word a lot.
I failed and I always say we'renot going to have that in our
vocabulary.
All it is is you were justgathering experience so that you
didn't have enough informationbefore to make the best decision
(07:13):
.
And so I think it's important toreassure them that we don't
expect for them to haveeverything figured out just
because they turned 18.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
We sort of act like because they turned 18, the
world tells them they're grown.
They tell us they're grown andthat they don't need us anymore.
But the truth is we don't haveterminology for it, so I'm going
to create a term here.
They're really taught adults.
They're just toddlers learningto be adults.
They're not grown yet.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Sandy, it's so funny that you say that, because I
have always likened this agegroup to toddlers, because with
a toddler they have all thismobility, they can run, they can
walk, they can walk but theydon't have reasoning enough to
keep them safe, to keep thingsout of their mouth.
You have to watch them all thetime.
With this age group they haveso much freedom and independence
, but they still don't have thebrain development to not take
(08:03):
risks and to make the decisionsthat they need to.
So I've always said they arejust like toddlers.
I love that terminology.
I'm glad you made that.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
And not the skill set either.
No, they don't Just like astoddlers.
Toddlers are learning to walk,they're learning to feed
themselves, they're learning allthose things.
This group of kids in this agecategory are learning to be
adults.
They're not really there yet,and some days what I have found.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Some days they're more like children and some days
they're more like children andsome days they're more like
adults.
And I think it's important forus to have the flexibility to
kind of move through thosestates with them and try to
figure out are you more a childtoday, or are you more an adult?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So what should you do , or maybe not do, to help
support your 18 to 24 year oldchild?
Speaker 5 (08:45):
I think that with our own children, we gave them a
base to work off of, we raisedthem to be able to make choices
and to understand decisionmaking, and so you would call
upon those skills that you knowyou've given those kids before
they turned 18.
As we are house parents forkids that didn't have our
(09:08):
experiences growing up,sometimes we have to get in a
little deeper, a little quicker,because one we don't know that
they have the background tosolve the problem and the life
experience that they need tofigure it out.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Yeah, I was thinking, josh, this seems like the big
thing is to be available, andit's so easy in this transition
to have a great need for controland be reactive, and so easy
for bridges to get burnt but tobe a safe sounding board and to
continue, no matter how far offin left field they might seem to
(09:47):
be, to take a deep breath andmake sure that the relationship
doesn't rupture.
So, because they're going toneed us right.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
So why are boundaries important to establish during
this time period?
Speaker 4 (09:58):
I think they're important to establish all the
time, but maybe especiallyduring this time period, because
as parents, it's our desire tosee them succeed and sometimes
we even take their failures asour own failures and we take
their mistakes and the timesthey mess up and we blame
ourselves for it and we thinkit's a reflection of us.
(10:20):
So I think it's reallyimportant to understand that
this is my child, who islearning how to do life, and
they're going to make mistakes,just like I did, and so I have
to have boundaries.
I can't rescue them from everybad decision they make, but I
can walk side by side with themthrough the fallout of that bad
decision.
There is fallout and they needto know that we're still going
(10:42):
to be there for them.
So it's like being presentwithout being in charge.
Speaker 6 (10:47):
That's good Be present without being in charge.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I bet that's easier said than done sometimes, though
Absolutely so.
How would y'all advise ourlisteners to set up and
establish these boundaries?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
No, I think it's important that those
conversations happen early andyou know that you don't wait
until they're 18 to talk aboutwhat the expectations are.
I think it's important to setthose parameters, you know,
maybe when they're still underyour roof, but it's still a
parent-child relationship evenwhen they turn 18.
And if they do have to moveback to talk about, you know
(11:20):
you're going to do your ownlaundry, you know.
But I love what you said beingavailable without being in
charge.
Also, to make sure that, like Isaid, I think those
conversations have to happenearly and maybe have to be
repeated.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
Boy, that's a great, that's a great point.
And I don't know, boy, I knowthat we I'm thinking about
myself we just we didn't do sowell in that.
But to start early, but whatwould you say to a listener
who's right now, just in themidst of this, didn't have those
early discussions, and howwould they start setting up
boundaries?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Think of communication, you know, in a
non-hostile, non-judgmental way.
Have those conversations assoon as possible.
If you're in that positionright now.
Have them right now, before youget angry because of some
boundary that they have crossedbut they didn't even know was
there, because of some boundarythat they have crossed but they
didn't even know was there.
And so, because anger is no, noone wears that well and we
(12:15):
never have our bestconversations to be respectful
to each other and just give eachother some space.
Adult children need more space.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
They need more space.
What would you do to help youryoung adult when they fail?
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Well, I don't think it's helpful to point out that
they fail.
I think that they generallyknow they fail.
So both with our own childrenand with the kids that we've
raised at Cal Farley's, I justwe try to be present and we see
them floundering and a lot oftimes I might say reach out to
them and say, hey, you want toget together and talk for a
(12:50):
while?
Or I haven't heard from youlately, how's it going?
You know, and most of the timethey will just spill their
hearts to you about what's goingon.
But they just needed somebodyto be willing to reach out and
open that door for them, becausethey're still not great at that
and so that's hard for them.
So be there and open the doorfor conversation.
If they're willing to hearadvice, you can share advice or
(13:12):
possible choices with them.
But they have to make theultimate choice about how
they're going to deal with that.
And just to know that you'regoing to keep loving them no
matter what, that's I was goingto say too.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I think, especially with the alumni that we work
with, when they have what theyperceive as a failure I said I
hate that, I don't like thatword because I think it's just a
matter of not having all theinformation or the skill set to
make the right decision.
But often they feel soembarrassed or that they feel
that they've disappointed us andthat they don't want to reach
out.
And so, yes, being present andalways one of our mottos in
(13:47):
alumni support is love them asunconditionally as is humanly
possible and let them know that,let them know that.
And so if it's as unconditionalas is humanly possible, that
whatever mistake, it's not goingto impact that relationship
negatively.
It's a no-judgment zone.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Yes, I think that it's important also that in the
discussion with them, that theyalready feel guilty about what
they've done.
They know they failed.
They don't need you to confirmthat they failed.
What they need to know is thatyou heard them, and so we have a
technique called reflectivelistening, and that is we're not
(14:27):
thinking about what we're goingto say next to them.
We're thinking about whatthey're saying and then we
repeat parts of it to make surethat we're on the same page,
that they're on, so that we canguide them the right direction
when it's time for the guidanceto come in, if they're open to
guidance.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
Boy, and there's a great, there's a landmine here.
You can step on pretty quick,isn't there?
Because if you've been watchingthis thing, this train wreck
unfold, and if you're notvigilant, not aware of how
frustrated you are and angry youare, what you want to do is,
bam, as soon as they go there,you're going to want to pile on
(15:04):
right, and that's going to shortcircuit the whole process,
isn't it?
And it's going to start toclose the door.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So what's the best way to respond when your child
calls you asking for advice?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
We have a saying in my house that when the kids call
and there's something going on,we say do you need a toolkit or
do you need a bucket?
You know, is it really advicethat you need or do you just
need to vent for a little bit,and sometimes it's both that you
need, or do you just need tovent for a little bit, and
sometimes it's both?
But again, nonjudgmental andjust listen to what their
(15:41):
concerns are and try to maybe bevulnerable and talk about some
of your own experiences in asimilar situation and how the
mistakes that we made in thatkind of situation or what worked
for us.
Speaker 6 (15:50):
You know, if they come asking for advice, that's a
cue that most of us we're goingto be all over that and want to
start to, because we've beenruminating and thinking what
they should be doing right.
And I really think that whenthey come to that point and they
ask to start with a question,can you tell me more about the
(16:11):
situation or what have youlearned right now and let things
open up where they're the onesdoing, talking, and draw them
out, because to jump right intoall this great advice we've had
in our head forever and we justcan't wait to, I think that that
will short circuit the process.
So a good question will drawsome wisdom into the room.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
So what about when you see them obviously
struggling, but they don't cometo you for advice?
Speaker 4 (16:37):
For me, that's a cue to reach out to them and not to
say I see you struggling, but tojust reach out and let them
know hey, I've been thinkingabout you and I care about you.
I wonder how you're doing.
I see you doing thissuccessfully, or that
successfully because then theydon't feel defensive.
Or that successfully becausethen they don't feel defensive
(16:59):
and they don't feel the need to,you know, hide what's going on
from you, or shut the doorbecause they can't listen to
your voice right now, becausetheir own voice is loud enough
in their ears, maybe.
So I think that it's importantthat you reach out.
Always when somebody'sstruggling, we reach out.
When a toddler falls down whilethey're trying to learn to walk
, there is not a single adultthat sits there and waits on
them to just get back up bythemselves If they're on the
(17:20):
floor crying, everybody's likeoh, and they all run to help
this child up.
We need to have that sameresponse to our young adults,
because they're still learningto be adults.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
Yeah, and I would say to be really holding them close
in prayer and then also avoidanother temptation.
And there's another temptationIf we're watching them struggle,
it's pretty easy to get toxicabout it, to ruminate in an
unhealthy way, and then probablyeven worse than that, if we
have a sounding board that's notreally a healthy sounding board
(17:54):
.
We want to share thatfrustration with someone else.
That feeds into a negativenarrative and that can all go
very wrong, where our heartswill get bitter and we're not
going to be very good help forour kids, right.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
I actually asked my soon to be 25 year old daughter
about this question and she saidalways please reach out,
because if I'm in a place whereI can't, I need you to see that
I'm hurting and reach out, butnot in a way that's going to
make me feel more guilty orshame about what's going on.
And again, maybe that goes backto loving them as
(18:30):
unconditionally as humanlypossible and just hear, just
listen, but absolutely to be theperson who reaches out.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
So it's not uncommon for 18 to 25-year-olds to make
life choices or philosophicaldecisions that go against our
own family values.
How would you advise ourlisteners to handle these
situations?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
One of the things that we've talked about in my
family with this is that,because this has happened with
both of my children, mybiological children and if you
can put your ego aside because Ithink sometimes as parents, our
egos start getting bruised andEGO stands for edges got out,
and that's hard but to not takeit personally to ask them about
(19:13):
what it is they feel about thesituation, if they are going
against the values that youraised them with.
Well, tell me about why youbelieve something else.
Tell me more about that.
Let me find out why you'repassionate about this.
And I think it's an opportunityfor us to grow as people if we
will dissect, have the courageto dissect our own values,
(19:35):
because do we believe it justbecause our mom believed it or
our grandmother believed it, oris it something that we really
do hold you know very dear?
But to dissect that and say,okay, this is why I believe this
.
And I think, if you'll allowyour kids to talk to you about
these situations, that it reallyis an opportunity for you to
grow even stronger in your ownbeliefs after you have kind of
(19:58):
dissected those you know, ormaybe question them and say I
never really thought about itlike that.
And so you know, it doesn'tmatter who teaches us, as long
as we learn, and sometimes ourchildren are our teachers.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I think it's important to ask yourself the
questions too, like is thisvalue that I'm holding worth
losing this relationship over?
Because I have watchedrelationships disintegrate over
values that, in five years,would not matter at all to
anyone, and so it really isimportant to ask is this worth
(20:34):
losing this relationship over,and how would God handle this?
How does he handle this?
How does Jesus love us when wego against His values?
Because His request of us isthat we love the way he loves,
and so it means that we have toexamine those things and think
about them and ask ourselvesBecause, at this age, because
(20:55):
these young adults' minds andbrains are not fully developed,
it's a prime opportunity forrelationships to be destroyed,
and sometimes irreparably, andso, as the adult with the mature
brain, we need to think aboutthat carefully and about how to
handle it.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
Oh man, this is such a good question and good and
Sandy and Kim, I appreciate whatyou both said about this Boy to
have friends, alums, that stayin touch, and they're way out
off in left field according tomy belief system and my values.
But what I always want to makecrystal clear one it's a great
(21:34):
opportunity for my soul to growin love and compassion and
understand more of God, theFather's heart.
You know we're told to be kindand compassionate to one another
, forgiving each other, just asin Christ God forgave us.
But to make crystal clear to myfriends that I love you because
you're you.
Okay, I may not agree witheverything that you do or
(21:57):
believe, I probably don'tunderstand everything about it
and I don't have everythingright myself, but I want you to
know that I love you becauseyou're you.
And we do not want to burn abridge.
And I've seen a lot of people inthe recent times really go
through some trials around thisthat maybe they've grown up in a
(22:19):
very conservative faithcommunity and then have a child
that is committed to a lifestylethat's way outside of what that
faith community would believeand teach, and I've been
encouraged to see so many ofthem wrestle with this and come
around to this realization thatthis is my child period and
(22:41):
we're not going to burn a bridge.
You're going to come haveChristmas dinner with us and
we're going to do the thingsthat we do and this relationship
transcends all things.
So it's a great challenge and Iknow probably a lot of
listeners are going through someof these challenges, but just
please don't burn those bridges,right.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
All right.
Last question for today and,kim, you kind of hinted at this
Many of our listeners may havechildren who are age 15 to 17
year old right now.
What advice would you give tothese parents to better prepare
them for this next phase of life?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yes, if you can go ahead now and start to have some
conversations early about whatthe expectations are and also, I
think, be sure and give themsome comfort in that they are
going to fall.
They are going to make mistakesas parents.
We are going to fall, we'regoing to make mistakes, but
again, if the focus can be onthat relationship, talk to your
(23:33):
kids about what the expectationsare and understand that any
perceived control that you havehad with your children is about
to probably go away.
And it's hard.
It's hard but to prepareyourself some for that, because
your kids, you don't need toknow when they're this age, 18
(23:53):
and older.
You don't need to knoweverything that they're doing.
We think we do, but we reallydon't.
But it's hard to move from onephase to the next, but it's
doable.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
I agree with Kim, and I think it's important to share
the conversations with yourkids that tell them that, no
matter what you do, no matterwhat decisions you make, choices
you make, how frustrating thesituation might be to me, I'm
always going to love you, I'malways going to choose to have a
relationship with you and we'realways going to be a family.
(24:24):
There's nothing that can changethat, and I think that that's
important to let them know, andI encourage lots of rare Josh,
are you taking notes on this oneI'm going to take?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
so many detailed notes on this.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
I have two 17-year-olds right now so this
is all gravy for me.
Well, it kind of goes back towhat Kim said about the
boundaries and about startingthose conversations early.
But this whole transition, ashas already been said, it's a
doozy.
So lots of front-loading, right, don't wait.
15 to 17-year-olds starttalking about that transition
(24:57):
now.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Well, thank you all for joining us today and make
sure you come back next week.
Until then, remember you mighthave to loan out your frontal
lobes today.
Just make sure you remember toget them back.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about Cal Farley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
(25:28):
calfarleyorg.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
Cal Farley's.
Thank you for spending yourtime with us and have a blessed
day.
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