March 6, 2025 • 45 mins
Hey Brain Friends, Celebrating the life and legacy of Dr. Seles is at the heart of today's episode. I'm sharing the original recording of our neuroplasticity episode from 2022 that didn't make the cut. We had so much fun recording this but when we went to edit, the levels were not good. updates to the platform, there is a fix now. LOL We explore the concept of neuroplasticity and its role in recovery and personal growth, infused with laughter and ice breakers! We had such a good time recording this, I hope you enjoy. I will be back on the mic when I can, right now I'm grieving my friend. So enjoy this gem.
• Reflecting on the impact of Dr. Seles’s life
• Scholarships established in her name to promote health equity
• Understanding neuroplasticity and how the brain adapts
• Engaging in memory recall through an icebreaker
• Tips for incorporating playful activities to promote brain health
• The significance of consistency in practice during recovery
• How art and exercise can aid neuroplasticity
• The inspiring journeys shared by listeners and community members
We remind our Brain Friends to support the scholarships established to honor Dr. Seles and I encourage everyone to explore their websites for detailed information.
https://aphasia.org/stories/announcing-the-davetrina-seles-gadson-health-equity-grant-program/
https://www.cognitiverecoverylab.com/seles
www.aphasiaadvocates.com for Brain Friends Merch
https://www.cognitiverecoverylab.com/seles
https://aphasia.org/stories/announcing-the-davetrina-seles-gadson-health-equity-grant-program/
Our beloved colleague, Dr. Davetrina Seles Gadson, passed away January 11, 2025. Dr. Gadson was an extraordinary speech-language pathologist and neuroscience researcher who devoted her energy to studying health disparities in aphasia recovery. She was a fierce advocate for improving services for individuals with aphasia, particularly Black Americans. Her research transformed our understanding of these health disparities and shed light on how we can address them. We were privileged to have Dr. Gadson as a cherished member of our lab community for four years, first as a postdoctoral fellow and then as an Instructor of Rehabilitation Medicine. She was still a close collaborator and friend to many of us at the time of her passing. Dr. Gadson was an incredible person—compassionate, inspiring, and full of life. Her dedication to advancing equity in aphasia recovery and her profound impact on our community will never be forgotten. We are committed to honoring her memory by continuing to push our field forward and fight for equitable services for all people with aphasia.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie (00:01):
Hey Brain Friends.
As I step into Season 3 ofBrain Friends, I am filled with
gratitude for thoseconversations, for the laughter
and for the stories that willremain with me.
I met some phenomenal people atthe memorial in Augusta,
(00:23):
georgia, a few weeks ago.
I want to give a shout out toher entire family, of course, my
Dukes, my Dukes, her sister Tab, her father, mr Dave, her aunt
and uncle and cousins out inMaryland, that Maryland crew,
don't play about Celeste, theydon't play about celeste, they
(00:45):
don't play about their davetrina.
So, of course, what up unc?
Hey, auntie, she has, uh, thebest, best friends, and it was
funny because I referred to oneof them as her Tae and, as all
you guys know, me and Tae, werock and her Tae, she has two
(01:06):
Tay's, she has Itaski andVeronica, and those are her
Tae's and them girls bout itbout it, bout it bout it.
So I want to give a shout out tothem.
I just want to say thank you toall of her friends.
Chica, I ain't forget you, girl.
Um, that really helped me.
And they didn't know me.
(01:27):
I don't know them, they don'tknow me, but we all love trina.
So, um, in addition, there aregoing to be.
There are not going to be.
There are two scholarshipawards in her name.
One is out of georgetown, it'sthe dave trina celeste gatson
(01:51):
phd scholarship fund throughgeorgetown university supports
junior scholars who aim tofollow in dr gatson's footsteps
and continue her mission toimprove equity for stroke
survivors.
And the other one is the Davetrina Seles Gadson Health Equity
(02:17):
Grant Program through theNational Aphasia Association, of
which I am on the board.
Aphasia association, of which Iam on the board.
It's an initiative designed tosupport innovative projects that
address systemic inequalitiesin aphasia care and research.
Both of these scholarships andprograms grants, need our
(02:40):
support.
Uh, if we don't, who will?
So the information to give tothe scholarships, uh, will be in
the show notes.
Show notes, yeah, they'll be inthe show notes and will.
Um, it's on us to support theseimportant initiatives, the also
(03:02):
the information to visit thosewebsites.
I I have to say the cognitionrecovery labcom tribute to her
is phenomenal.
Um, the one on the naa is alsogreat, but the one with from
(03:22):
georgetown, georgetown, has somevideo.
You know you got to love thevideo, so they have some video
from the service actually.
So this entire season will bededicated to Dr Davet rina Seles
Gadson echoing her joy, her,her laughter and her spirit,
(03:49):
making it a joyful tributerather than a solemn farewell.
I can't, I don't know how to dothis and not have it's so hard
to say goodbye playing in thebackground like I really don't
know how to do this withoutdoing that.
So, honestly, I have beenstruggling to get back up on
(04:11):
this mic.
So, to that end, uh, todaywe're doing a tribute, uh
episode and what we're going todo is we're taking it back to
the original neuroplasticity,when we did neuroplasticity.
You know what I'm going to.
Let the episode speak foritself, but the point is we had
(04:35):
to re-record it because thelevels weren't great.
I now have the technology tofix those levels so I can share
that episode with you right now.
I hope you enjoy.
Thank you for being here, thankyou for reaching out to the
(04:57):
family with your condolences andto me with your condolences.
So, on behalf of the Gadsonfamily, my dukes tab quincy hey,
quincy.
The entire family I thank you.
And to her guy Lawrence he is aman amongst men, their brother
stepped all the way up andthrough.
(05:18):
So shout out to you, sir, Ijust want to thank everyone for
just opening their arms, uh, tome, uh, because I didn't know
anybody, but everybody knew meand treated me like family.
So I thank you for that and um,um, anyway, welcome back to
(05:44):
brain friends, or, better yet,welcome to Brain Friends.
Let's get it.
Dr Seles (06:03):
Hey.
Angie (06:03):
Angie.
Hey Dr Seles, how are you?
Dr Seles (06:07):
I'm doing well.
How are you?
Angie (06:09):
you know what I am feeling?
Fine, but a little, um, what'sthe word I want to use?
A little, uh, shunned, I'mgonna go with.
Shunned, I'm gonna go withstraight shunned.
I look, I was on Instagram onyour page and I saw that you had
a full page, like four pagewrite up in like the Asha
(06:30):
magazine.
Well, I got to find this online.
Why don't you call me?
Dr Seles (06:34):
Oh, you know.
So, the Asha magazine.
They actually did that a whileago.
They did that, I think, lastyear, in conjunction with the
ASHA conference, where we talkedabout health disparities.
Yeah, but I do have some goodnews that I don't know if you
(06:59):
saw what's that, which is partof my disclaimer for today's.
My performance in today'sepisode is that I was
celebrating because ourmanuscript got published.
What?
Yes, the Journal ofCommunication Disorders, aphasia
(07:20):
Severity is Modulated by Raceand Lesion Size in chronic
stroke survivors a retrospectivestudy.
Angie (07:29):
That is amazing.
I am super proud.
I'm so proud of you.
That is awesome.
So when do you present this?
Like, how does that work?
The process to present any ofthat?
Dr Seles (07:43):
Oh yeah, so I am going to, I'll actually be speaking
at the ASHA conference 2022.
And so I'll touch a little bitabout it there and then you know
, I think by the time this airs,we might have already had your
aphasia.
Awareness fair, your aphasiaawareness fair, but I'm going to
(08:04):
talk a little bit about itthere too.
Angie (08:13):
And yeah, I just really want to get the word out.
Oh, that is absolutely fabulous.
So is it?
Where can I read it?
Is it on your Instagram Likewhere?
Yeah, definitely.
Dr Seles (08:20):
Where can you find it?
Yeah, so it's on my website,wwwdeselesscom.
That's where you can find allinformation about the things
that I'm doing, includingpublications and brain friends.
But, honey, I'll send you theemail with my special link yes,
(08:41):
I need the special link.
Angie (08:43):
I need that show notes let our people.
See, you are doing great things.
Dr Seles (08:50):
That is absolutely fabulous.
Angie (08:53):
Listen, let me ask you a question because we're going to
jump into the episode, but Ihad to check you.
Such an inspiration and I'mjust so proud to be doing this
with you.
So listen, I have a question.
I saw a meme and I know youcan't go by what you see on a
meme, so don't don't come for me, right?
(09:15):
But the meme said that if youhave brain damage, you will
always have like that part ofthe brain is dead.
It might not that is not goingto come back online but what you
do get is to be able to kind ofgo around that dead area, but
(09:38):
the part that's dead is dead.
Is that true?
Dr Seles (09:42):
Yeah, dead, is that true?
Yeah, so oftentimes whathappens with a stroke is that
those pieces that were damagedby the stroke are dead.
And one of the things thattherapy does, as well as one of
the things that makes our brainso amazing, is that the brain
will build new connections andfind out a different way to go,
(10:04):
since it can't access thatinformation through the regular
route because those neurons arenow dead.
So that's true, but the brainwill build new ones.
Angie (10:17):
Okay.
So it's kind of like theanalogy I used to like to give
when I um, when I first had mystroke.
I asked my neurologist, I Isaid it's like I'm, I feel like
it's like I'm driving to mygrandmom's house and when I get
there the house is gone.
There's no houses around it,it's just a little piece of the
(10:38):
playground that was across thestreet and it's just gone.
But I feel like I'm where I'msupposed to be in my head, but
like my grandma's house has justbeen leveled and I couldn't, I
am messing up my own analogy.
(10:58):
The point is let me back up.
Let me back up the analogy isI'm driving to grandmom's and
when I get there the house isgone.
And what I asked my neurologistis is the house gone or is my
GPS just taking me to the wrongplace?
And she says, no, your GPS istaking you to the right place,
(11:22):
grandma's house is just gone.
And with that I said, okay,good enough, I have to rebuild
it and I have to build that.
And I had to kind of get onwith the business of
intentionally rewiring andtrying to relearn what I had.
And what she said was what Iwas describing was
(11:45):
neuroplasticity and that is therelearning and the rewiring of
information.
Dr Seles (11:52):
Yeah, exactly, Because the brain will rewire itself to
function in the same way butdifferently, if that makes sense
.
And you know, one of the thingsthat's awesome about our brain
is that it is adaptable likeplastic.
And when we think aboutneuroplasticity, it's activity
(12:14):
driven, and so frequently usedpathways are strengthened,
whereas, you know, the pathwaysthat you don't use are weakened.
So it goes back to that sayingof use it or lose it.
Angie (12:31):
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm, mm, hmm.
Dr Seles (12:33):
So there are ways to help build that neuroplasticity,
inform new connections, giventhat the old connections are
either weakened or dead becauseof damage we got to get back
(12:54):
into it, but we got to do our umuh icebreakers.
Oh, this icebreaker this time.
Look, let me.
I already gave my disclaimer,but um so we're going to do uh
recall refresh the disclaimerLike so we're going to do
(13:17):
delayed memory recall and um letthe record show that we'll see
how delayed okay, okay, okay.
So delayed memory recall iswhere I'll give you three words,
(13:37):
you'll give me three words andthen we'll go on with our
conversation and after so longwe'll have to repeat those words
.
Do you want to do five minutesor 10 minutes?
Angie (13:50):
Let's do five minutes, okay, and I actually have a
timer.
All right, Because you know,okay, come on prepare, all right
.
So what are, um, uh, what areyour three words for me?
Dr Seles (14:13):
okay, your three words are light, pillow, kermit.
Angie (14:21):
Light, kermit, kermit, kermit and what?
Dr Seles (14:29):
Light pillow Kermit.
Angie (14:35):
Okay, your three words are pillow camera house.
Dr Seles (14:50):
Okay, pillow camera house.
Angie (14:56):
Pillow camera house.
Yep, okay, all right.
So I have another question.
I already asked you kind ofwhat is neuroplasticity and how
does it work, but how can peoplewith aphasia use
(15:16):
neuroplasticity to improve theircommunication?
Dr Seles (15:24):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So I think people with aphasiacan improve their communication
using neuroplasticity, bytargeting things in your
thinking, your actions and yourroutine.
And what I mean by that is, youknow, the more you do new
(15:47):
things, the more connections arebuilt, and so, rather, it's
establishing a routine to evenstart that process.
So, you know, some people arelike, oh, I don't really have a
routine, I just go with the flow, right?
Um, that's fine.
But when you're trying to buildnew habits or new connections,
(16:11):
then it goes back to that use itor lose it framework, and so
you have to be doing somethingto create that repetitive and
that repetition piece.
So, if you think about yourbrain as a muscle, the only
thing that can help build muscleis actually lifting weights and
doing those types of activitiesto build that muscle, and so
(16:36):
that's one way is, through youractions and your routine, making
sure that you're doing thingsthat are actually like making
your brain think.
So a lot of people sometimeswatch a lot of television, and
the thing about television isthat not only is it a sedentary
(16:58):
activity, but you're not, yourbrain's not doing really
anything, it's just there.
Angie (17:06):
And so those just kind of washing over you.
Dr Seles (17:08):
Exactly, and so activities like that aren't
going to be the best in helpingto create those new neural
pathways, because, legit, you'renot doing nothing see, this is
the after I've been out on anight because you ain't doing
nothing.
Uh, we're celebrating that wewere just published, so so,
(17:34):
pardon the realness because,legit, you're not trying.
Angie (17:38):
No, but I think, yeah, I tried to stay as actively.
That's why I kind of involvedmyself in research as well,
because I wanted to just keepdoing something that would be
helpful after therapy, becauseby the time I got out of therapy
(17:58):
it wasn't I didn't really findI found therapy not to be that
great of um.
I didn't get my greatest gainsthere.
Um, it was definitely after thefact, and I'm sure the
(18:19):
foundation was set in therapy.
So I'm not saying like it was awaste of time, but I wasn't
seeing any gains then, becausethe gains are slow, steady and
silent.
Dr Seles (18:33):
Oh, that part.
Because the other thing too,angie, is that neuroplastic
changes happen all the time, butthe magnitude depends on how
much activity the brain receives.
So again, the more practiceleads to more learning, and it's
not limited in age.
And so you know, with therapyyou were having some of those
(18:53):
changes, but participating inresearch and using your brain in
a different way is going tohelp create stronger connections
.
Angie (19:05):
Like editing a podcast.
Look, okay, Come on editor.
Dr Seles (19:11):
Yes, come on, editor Exactly.
Yes, come on, come on, editorExactly.
Because even in that, like youknow, the world needs to know
that not only do you edit thepodcast, but you will send me
suggestions to help me do mypart, because what we not going
(19:34):
to do, look, and so I think that, even in that, like, you're
really strengthening your brainbecause you're exposing your
brain to these new things and,um, you know, one of the one of
the things about neuroplasticityalso is that that repeated and
directed attention toward athing can also help rewire that
(19:56):
activity.
And so the point that you arereading and learning new things
within the podcast and editingthat's like not only using a
different part of your brain,but also strengthening and
rewiring it as well.
Angie (20:09):
Wow, and you had said something earlier about almost
like it.
When you're saying the brain isa muscle, you had said
something earlier about almostlike it.
When you're saying the brain isa muscle, is it helpful to do
these things?
And like you know, let's sayI'm doing, you know, is it with
working out, like, if I use thattype of Monday, wednesday,
(20:30):
friday, is the?
Do you think the consistencymatters?
Dr Seles (20:36):
Oh yeah, the consistency definitely matters
again, because you'restrengthening and you're
building a new way you thinkabout it, how, if you're
traveling somewhere for thefirst time, you might have to
use a GPS the first time, butthe more you go that route, the
more your brain is going toremember and say, oh okay, well,
(20:59):
no, now I do this, and that'sone of the things.
Another tip that I stronglysuggest, if you're just looking
at your brain and aging, is thatyou know, turn off that GPS
sometimes, because when you'reusing the GPS all the time, even
after you kind of have gonethat way a little bit, it's good
(21:22):
to allow your brain, thatexercise and that practice to
actually try to remember.
Angie (21:29):
And navigate, and navigate.
Dr Seles (21:31):
And navigate it Exactly.
Angie (21:33):
Yeah, I think those type of things where you had to.
You know, back in the day youhad to get the directions from
the guy at the rest stop andhe's like, all right, six lights
make a left, then a right,you're going to see this sign
and then you know straight downand you know, and so it was like
eight different steps.
(21:54):
Then we got MapQuest, now wegot Google quest, now we got
google.
We don't need to know.
Now I don't have to talk tonobody about nothing.
See, but that's taken away fromwhat?
The brain power, or the brain,uh, muscle.
Oh, look at us five minutesokay, okay.
um, this is embarrassing.
(22:15):
Yeah, I'm going to need a.
Can I get a clue?
Dr Seles (22:28):
Can I phone a friend?
Let me go first with minebecause it might trigger one of
yours.
Angie (22:33):
Okay, go ahead.
See Look, I just popped outlike let me go first and I was
like okay, what?
Dr Seles (22:43):
were they um?
Angie (22:44):
it was pillow camera house yes, okay, I have
absolutely no idea.
They were simple words.
Dr Seles (23:02):
Yeah, we had one word in common.
Angie (23:05):
Did we?
Mm-hmm, I gave you one of yourwords back.
Yeah, see, that should havetold you right there.
Dr Seles (23:12):
I thought you were making it easy for me.
Angie (23:14):
No, you need to read the room and recognize I had
forgotten immediately.
So was it all right?
Well, maybe I can do that Wasone of your words.
Pillow?
Yes, Okay, well, which is whythat's very telling.
So, yeah, I have I.
(23:35):
Yeah, I didn't.
I didn't give you pillowbecause that was one of my.
I didn't even know and so I hadactually forgotten immediately,
which is not, uh, not funny.
But wow, and I was trying, youknow, I tried at least hold one
or two of them, but but I didbecause I said pillow, so I gave
(23:56):
that right back to you.
Know, I tried to at least holdone or two of them, but but I
did because I said pillow, so Igave that right back to you,
which was a clue to me.
Yeah, that's a win, that's awin, so that's one.
I got one out of two, one outof two, and that's what we're
doing.
Dr Seles (24:06):
So sometimes with the delayed memory recall type task,
we'll use a strategy to wherewe either visualize it or link
them together.
The words somehow in our mindDid you use?
Angie (24:28):
any of those strategies?
Is that helping?
I did a lot of memory recall atTemple and that they would have
me and what I would do is putthe word in a sentence and then
try to remember the sentence andthen pull the words from there.
(24:49):
But I was not able to or Ididn't do that.
Like that, just my, my onlytrick that I have I failed to
implement.
Okay.
Dr Seles (25:01):
I didn't have a sentence.
You want me to give you a clue,or you just want me to tell you
what they are?
Angie (25:06):
Yeah, I'm going to be honest with you.
I'll take the clue because youknow I'll take the clue, but I'm
not.
Dr Seles (25:11):
So one clue is it's the opposite of dark Light,
mm-hmm.
Angie (25:19):
Yeah, that doesn't even sound familiar, so it was light
pillow, pillow.
Dr Seles (25:25):
Oh you waiting for me to jump in.
Angie (25:30):
I'm looking at you like, and Fog Kermit.
Kermit.
Oh God Dang, go on.
I repeated Kermit twice becauseI didn't hear you say it right?
Oh, that's it.
Yeah, that was not even on the,that wasn't even on the horizon
(25:55):
, that wasn't even in the room.
Yeah, it goes pretty quick.
That memory recall is so not my, I mean, but I am getting
better and it's not as prevalentas it seems.
You're showing me a picture ofKermit and I'm like green, green
(26:16):
frog.
Is that what I said?
I said see frog.
Dr Seles (26:19):
Yeah, but that's okay.
I didn't even think, you know,I didn't even think.
Well, if it means anything, Ididn't even think to say frog, I
thought Kermit, the actualfrog's name.
Angie (26:35):
Yeah, which is what you gave me.
I mean, it's not Right.
This ain't a thousand wordpyramid.
I'm supposed to come up withthe real word.
You gave me a word.
I'm supposed to repeat the word.
Dr Seles (26:45):
Right, it's not.
You were out celebrating withme.
Angie (26:49):
Yes, I went and saw For the record, For the record In
spirit, we went to the footballgame in Friday Night Lights in
Morristown.
We went and saw our high schoolteam play.
My husband and I, we do that onFriday nights.
We go to Chick-fil-A, eat inthe car and then go to the game
(27:10):
and then we come home.
So that was.
Dr Seles (27:14):
So that's okay.
So that's the thing with thethree words.
But I think one of the thingsthat you mentioned that is great
is that you do have a strategyand, yeah, sometimes you
remember them, sometimes youdon't.
Angie (27:32):
I'm in Joy's Got Nuts and Mounds, don't?
It is what it is.
Dr Seles (27:40):
That's the neuroplasticity of the brain,
wow.
Angie (27:46):
And so the things that you just all of a sudden didn't
know, like when you get to your.
It's all about the new rootsthat you create, though, because
even though, um, you know, if Igo back to the grandmom GPS
analogy, you know you can, um,I'm on my way, but then I get
lost midway and it's how do youget the new roots?
(28:09):
Because it's kind of like, youknow, things have been washed
away.
That train of thought, thatpathway is gone.
It's so now, withneuroplasticity, my brain is
rewiring itself and making newpathways to get me to the same
information.
That process, to me, isabsolutely mind blowing, because
(28:36):
the brain is just sofascinating.
But when you're creating thenew pathways, is it going to
take more energy from me, as theperson with brain damage, to
continue to function?
What I'm saying is like am Igoing to be extra tired because
(28:58):
I have this new pathway?
I can't go the original route,but I have this pathway to get
me to the same information.
Is that going to take moreenergy for me to get there?
Does that make sense?
Dr Seles (29:11):
Yeah, I think that everybody is different and I
think that that is a greatquestion, for I do think that
everyone is different and Ithink that that's a great
question for, like your medicalprovider.
But you know, one thing thatyou do have to understand is,
(29:51):
like, oftentimes, people withbrain injury or after a stroke
report feeling fatigue, arefeeling tired because that could
be, you know, when you'resleeping and you're resting,
that's your brain's opportunityto help, um, um kind of
consolidate those new pathwaysand memory.
That's like when your brain isdoing its work.
You know it's learned all thesethings, things that's been
active all day, and so now it'stired and when you have a stroke
you're exhausted all the timeLike you can knock out of a
(30:33):
quick 14, 16 hour sleep sessioneasily.
Angie (30:39):
But when you look at neuroplasticity, is there
anything that a person can dospecific?
Is there anything that a personcan do specific?
Is there anything that peoplewith aphasia can do to increase
their neuroplasticity?
Like to help build those newroots?
Dr Seles (30:59):
Yeah, so there there are a couple of things.
You know.
The biggest thing is to keepthe brain busy, keep it healthy,
and when I say busy, I'm notsaying be a busy body, look let
me differentiate that you justdoing stuff to do stuff.
I'm not saying that just likingeverybody's posts like right I'm
(31:24):
saying you want to do thingsthat are actively requiring,
requiring your brain to thinkthrough things.
So, rather, even if it'ssomething like a word search or
a word puzzle or a puzzle orjust anything that's really
requiring your brain to dosomething, if it's something
(31:44):
that you used to do veryfrequently, like, maybe, cook
and now you're having a hardtime cooking, maybe look at a
recipe, even if it's you know arecipe that you know you follow
before, it might be helpful toto do something like that that
can keep the brain busy and help.
Exercise, of course, issomething that research has
(32:10):
shown to improve, and one of theexercises that I like a lot,
especially with brain recovery,is cross crawl exercises.
Angie (32:19):
What is that?
Dr Seles (32:20):
Yeah, so cross crawl exercises integrate both
hemispheres and strengtheningnetwork the communication of the
corpus callosum, and sobasically it's like if you bring
your right arm to your left legand so think about like
exercises, like either bicyclesor anytime you're, you're making
(32:42):
your right side of the bodycrossover your left side,
because you know the brain iscontralateral and so oftentimes
you know, especially with peoplewith aphasia, they might have
that left hemisphere braindamage, but physically lateral
mean so contralateral is thatthe brain integrates the
(33:04):
opposite side of the body and soinnervates the opposite side of
the body.
And so you know, if someone hasleft side brain damage, they
might physically see thatmanifest on their right side,
and vice versa, If they have aright sided head injury, they
might physically see themanifestation, so numbness or
(33:28):
weakness on the left side.
Angie (33:31):
Right Like so my right hand began to close up the night
of my stroke.
That's because the stroke wason my left side of my brain.
Exactly, and that's also wherethe communication is held.
Dr Seles (33:44):
Right, and so those cross crawl exercises.
It crosses that communicationbecause you're bringing one side
of your body to the other side.
Angie (33:57):
So are there like things we can do?
Dr Seles (33:59):
Yeah, ok, so I do have a couple of neuroplasticity
brain exercises.
Exercises For us to do that.
I looked up and I'll put thesein the show notes.
Angie (34:10):
Okay, you ready?
Yes, Okay.
Dr Seles (34:13):
So the first one is to draw a circle in the air with
your left hand.
Okay, and draw a triangle withyour right hand.
Oh, that's that.
Angie (34:30):
Are you actually doing it?
You know you ain't right.
Okay, I I'm about to pokemyself in the eye okay, I, I
can't, I'm that was.
Dr Seles (34:39):
That was tough, yeah, so that was a little challenging
, but you see how you're doing Istart making rectangles for
both.
Like, Like yeah, okay, I haveanother one.
All right, make two fists withthe hands facing you, okay.
Extend your left thumb, allright, and your right pinky.
(35:07):
Yes, I'm sorry, okay, okay.
So you have your two fists withyour hands facing you.
Extend your left thumb and yourright pinky to the left Left
thumb, right pinky to the left.
Switch back and forth.
Angie (35:25):
Oh, no yeah.
Dr Seles (35:27):
I don't have that one either.
I'm going to blame that one oncelebration.
Okay, yeah, I don't have thatone either.
Angie (35:31):
I'm gonna blame that one on celebration.
Okay, yeah, I don't.
Yeah, I'm listen, angie's aboutto lose her eye, so let's not,
I can't, but that is, that'sgood stuff.
And yeah, those type of umexercises are so key.
I didn't know I couldn't touchmy thumb to my fingers until the
neurologist asked me to do it.
You know, I remember it waslike, oh wow, I didn't know that
(35:55):
that was for me.
It was the things that I wouldlose, that I didn't know were up
for grabs, like I didn't know Icould lose that.
Dr Seles (36:02):
Right.
Angie (36:02):
Even with language.
I didn't know that I could losethe ability to do that, and so
I could lose the ability to dothat, and so yeah that was the
thing for me.
Dr Seles (36:15):
But yeah, that is good stuff.
Yeah, the other thing, too,that we definitely need more
science on, but have shown to beeffective in helping people
with aphasia increaseneuroplasticity, is things like
art and extra well, I saidexercise already, but things
like art and music.
(36:35):
One of the things behind thatis that art and music is like on
the right side of the brain,where you know, like the left
side of the brain is ourlanguage.
Those types of things usuallyreside in the right side, and so
the question is if those arestronger in that area because
(36:57):
the right side of the brainhasn't been influenced by the
stroke that maybe that canstrengthen some of the left side
types of activities.
For an example, if you'rereally big in art and drawing
and things like that, maybe thatcan support language activity,
(37:19):
and again, the research hasn'tconfirmed this to massive
extents.
Okay right, right Don't come,but Right Don't come for me.
But you know, I do think thatthere has to be something to it.
Angie (37:37):
Right, right, absolutely , absolutely, um yeah,
absolutely.
It's early in the morning, Ican't I got.
These words are rushing over me.
I'm not even going to hold you.
Dr Seles (38:00):
What do you mean?
The words are rushing over you.
It's when I don't pick up whatyou're saying.
Okay, okay what I just said.
Yeah, okay, no what I just saidyeah, okay.
Angie (38:10):
No, I'm saying first of all, I'm saying as a whole like
the thing with the words, like Iusually I shouldn't be able to
give you one or two of them back, but there's times where words
just literally rush over me andI don't I'm not picking any of
them up.
I consider it to be like it'slike holding up a red cup at a
(38:33):
fire hydrant.
You know what I mean like it'stoo much.
It's just too much force oryeah, yes at a fire hydrant.
You know what I mean.
Like it's just, the hose is toomuch.
I have the cup, but there'snothing getting in the cup.
That's you know.
Another great analogy from yourgirl what?
Dr Seles (38:50):
yeah, yeah, well, I think the thing about
neuroplasticity and it's one ofthe things that I'm even I mean
it goes to show that when youhave brain fog, or you've been
out the night before and thenyou get up the next morning, how
your brain is still recovering.
(39:12):
No, but I mean I can't, Icouldn't find another word, but
um rebooting rebooting, yes, thebrain is still establishing
with the collective rightrebooting.
So all of that to say.
I understand what you're right.
Angie (39:33):
What judgment?
Dr Seles (39:34):
right what you're saying and, of course, no
judgment, but but what I wassaying about the, the thing I
just said with the umneuroplasticity piece and things
that can help to increase theneuroplasticity with the, with
the art right, um, what I'mbasically trying to say with
(39:56):
that is that the more people dothings that either they enjoy or
that are new to them, the moreplasticity, um, the more they
put themselves at a betterposition to increase plasticity.
Rather, it's learning art,rather it's learning a new song,
(40:17):
whatever it is that's new toyou and can support you.
Angie (40:23):
Actually using your brain, even if it's the creative
side of your brain, can helpbuild neurons okay and
connections I do have to say andpeople laugh at me all the time
because you know, I played mybasketball game online or the
xbox, but it were.
(40:44):
It helped me so much with myhand and eye coordination.
You got to build, you got tobuild a dude to play basketball
for you, and they give you downto the hair follicles.
Is he bald?
Do he have braids?
Is he wearing red?
It's a whole thing, but and acouple of times I just it was at
first I really couldn't even doit, but it's just a matter of
(41:05):
being able to do things that arehard and then stay with it, and
that's the thing, like I likedoing it, and so I just stayed
at it, even when it wasn't goingwell.
And I think sometimes people itdoesn't go well, they get
discouraged and they leave, andI get that too, and I get that
(41:29):
too.
I get that too.
I'm not going to sit here andact like I don't know how that
feels, because I do, but I thinkI just want to encourage people
to continue to try and continueto push forward, because the
only way you can't control thewind, you can only adjust your
sails.
You must adjust.
Dr Seles (41:52):
You can't control the wind.
You can only adjust your sails.
Yeah, I like that Come on sails, come on sails, come on wind.
No, I think that's beautifuland you know we're we're out of
time, but I think that you saidsomething that's so important is
(42:12):
that, even though it waschallenging, you stuck with it,
and the thing, if any message Ican give, it would be find
something that you can beconsistent at and that you can
stick with with, because that'swhat's going to help create some
of those new networks and getyou stronger, and so that's the
(42:43):
biggest thing thing.
But then they fall off and thenthat creates, you know, its own
set of mental health pieces ofoh, I didn't do it, but you kind
of set yourself up so failurefind something that you can be
consistent at.
I think it's a great start allright, well, I'm just gonna.
Angie (43:00):
I have to tell you my quick story and I'm gonna let
you go.
Who's to say?
But I went when I first had mystroke.
Rosetta Stone was on sale andso I brought it and I'm like
I'll learn.
You know, I'm going to get newpathways.
I'm going to learn Spanish.
Ok, I don't, I have, I don'tlisten, I don't know any more
(43:21):
Spanish than I did from 11thgrade Spanish.
Wow, it was so.
Even opening the package waslike overwhelming and I I didn't
get to step one.
Um, and to this day I stillhave it and I totally own the
thing.
But I just couldn't.
It was just that was that's toomuch for what I could do, so I
(43:44):
had to ramp it down a bit, yeah,but anyway, I just wanted to
share that with you.
Thank you, guys for listening,downloading and staying with us.
We are the Brain Friends, brainFriends, brain Friends.
Alright, guys, bye, peace y'all.
Dr Seles (44:17):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Brain Friends.
Please leave us a five-starreview on Apple Podcasts or your
favorite streaming platform.
Also, make sure you subscribeto our YouTube channel.
Angie (44:27):
Brain Friends.
The podcast.
I'm so extra.
Carry on.
Hey Brain Friends.
As I step into Season 3 ofBrain Friends, I am filled with
gratitude for thoseconversations, for the laughter
and for the stories that willremain with me.
I met some phenomenal people atthe memorial in Augusta,
(00:23):
georgia, a few weeks ago.
I want to give a shout out toher entire family, of course, my
Dukes, my Dukes, her sister Tab, her father, mr Dave, her aunt
and uncle and cousins out inMaryland, that Maryland crew,
don't play about Celeste, theydon't play about celeste, they
(00:45):
don't play about their davetrina.
So, of course, what up unc?
Hey, auntie, she has, uh, thebest, best friends, and it was
funny because I referred to oneof them as her Tae and, as all
you guys know, me and Tae, werock and her Tae, she has two
(01:06):
Tay's, she has Itaski andVeronica, and those are her
Tae's and them girls bout itbout it, bout it bout it.
So I want to give a shout out tothem.
I just want to say thank you toall of her friends.
Chica, I ain't forget you, girl.
Um, that really helped me.
And they didn't know me.
(01:27):
I don't know them, they don'tknow me, but we all love trina.
So, um, in addition, there aregoing to be.
There are not going to be.
There are two scholarshipawards in her name.
One is out of georgetown, it'sthe dave trina celeste gatson
(01:51):
phd scholarship fund throughgeorgetown university supports
junior scholars who aim tofollow in dr gatson's footsteps
and continue her mission toimprove equity for stroke
survivors.
And the other one is the Davetrina Seles Gadson Health Equity
(02:17):
Grant Program through theNational Aphasia Association, of
which I am on the board.
Aphasia association, of which Iam on the board.
It's an initiative designed tosupport innovative projects that
address systemic inequalitiesin aphasia care and research.
Both of these scholarships andprograms grants, need our
(02:40):
support.
Uh, if we don't, who will?
So the information to give tothe scholarships, uh, will be in
the show notes.
Show notes, yeah, they'll be inthe show notes and will.
Um, it's on us to support theseimportant initiatives, the also
(03:02):
the information to visit thosewebsites.
I I have to say the cognitionrecovery labcom tribute to her
is phenomenal.
Um, the one on the naa is alsogreat, but the one with from
(03:22):
georgetown, georgetown, has somevideo.
You know you got to love thevideo, so they have some video
from the service actually.
So this entire season will bededicated to Dr Davet rina Seles
Gadson echoing her joy, her,her laughter and her spirit,
(03:49):
making it a joyful tributerather than a solemn farewell.
I can't, I don't know how to dothis and not have it's so hard
to say goodbye playing in thebackground like I really don't
know how to do this withoutdoing that.
So, honestly, I have beenstruggling to get back up on
(04:11):
this mic.
So, to that end, uh, todaywe're doing a tribute, uh
episode and what we're going todo is we're taking it back to
the original neuroplasticity,when we did neuroplasticity.
You know what I'm going to.
Let the episode speak foritself, but the point is we had
(04:35):
to re-record it because thelevels weren't great.
I now have the technology tofix those levels so I can share
that episode with you right now.
I hope you enjoy.
Thank you for being here, thankyou for reaching out to the
(04:57):
family with your condolences andto me with your condolences.
So, on behalf of the Gadsonfamily, my dukes tab quincy hey,
quincy.
The entire family I thank you.
And to her guy Lawrence he is aman amongst men, their brother
stepped all the way up andthrough.
(05:18):
So shout out to you, sir, Ijust want to thank everyone for
just opening their arms, uh, tome, uh, because I didn't know
anybody, but everybody knew meand treated me like family.
So I thank you for that and um,um, anyway, welcome back to
(05:44):
brain friends, or, better yet,welcome to Brain Friends.
Let's get it.
Dr Seles (06:03):
Hey.
Angie (06:03):
Angie.
Hey Dr Seles, how are you?
Dr Seles (06:07):
I'm doing well.
How are you?
Angie (06:09):
you know what I am feeling?
Fine, but a little, um, what'sthe word I want to use?
A little, uh, shunned, I'mgonna go with.
Shunned, I'm gonna go withstraight shunned.
I look, I was on Instagram onyour page and I saw that you had
a full page, like four pagewrite up in like the Asha
(06:30):
magazine.
Well, I got to find this online.
Why don't you call me?
Dr Seles (06:34):
Oh, you know.
So, the Asha magazine.
They actually did that a whileago.
They did that, I think, lastyear, in conjunction with the
ASHA conference, where we talkedabout health disparities.
Yeah, but I do have some goodnews that I don't know if you
(06:59):
saw what's that, which is partof my disclaimer for today's.
My performance in today'sepisode is that I was
celebrating because ourmanuscript got published.
What?
Yes, the Journal ofCommunication Disorders, aphasia
(07:20):
Severity is Modulated by Raceand Lesion Size in chronic
stroke survivors a retrospectivestudy.
Angie (07:29):
That is amazing.
I am super proud.
I'm so proud of you.
That is awesome.
So when do you present this?
Like, how does that work?
The process to present any ofthat?
Dr Seles (07:43):
Oh yeah, so I am going to, I'll actually be speaking
at the ASHA conference 2022.
And so I'll touch a little bitabout it there and then you know
, I think by the time this airs,we might have already had your
aphasia.
Awareness fair, your aphasiaawareness fair, but I'm going to
(08:04):
talk a little bit about itthere too.
Angie (08:13):
And yeah, I just really want to get the word out.
Oh, that is absolutely fabulous.
So is it?
Where can I read it?
Is it on your Instagram Likewhere?
Yeah, definitely.
Dr Seles (08:20):
Where can you find it?
Yeah, so it's on my website,wwwdeselesscom.
That's where you can find allinformation about the things
that I'm doing, includingpublications and brain friends.
But, honey, I'll send you theemail with my special link yes,
(08:41):
I need the special link.
Angie (08:43):
I need that show notes let our people.
See, you are doing great things.
Dr Seles (08:50):
That is absolutely fabulous.
Angie (08:53):
Listen, let me ask you a question because we're going to
jump into the episode, but Ihad to check you.
Such an inspiration and I'mjust so proud to be doing this
with you.
So listen, I have a question.
I saw a meme and I know youcan't go by what you see on a
meme, so don't don't come for me, right?
(09:15):
But the meme said that if youhave brain damage, you will
always have like that part ofthe brain is dead.
It might not that is not goingto come back online but what you
do get is to be able to kind ofgo around that dead area, but
(09:38):
the part that's dead is dead.
Is that true?
Dr Seles (09:42):
Yeah, dead, is that true?
Yeah, so oftentimes whathappens with a stroke is that
those pieces that were damagedby the stroke are dead.
And one of the things thattherapy does, as well as one of
the things that makes our brainso amazing, is that the brain
will build new connections andfind out a different way to go,
(10:04):
since it can't access thatinformation through the regular
route because those neurons arenow dead.
So that's true, but the brainwill build new ones.
Angie (10:17):
Okay.
So it's kind of like theanalogy I used to like to give
when I um, when I first had mystroke.
I asked my neurologist, I Isaid it's like I'm, I feel like
it's like I'm driving to mygrandmom's house and when I get
there the house is gone.
There's no houses around it,it's just a little piece of the
(10:38):
playground that was across thestreet and it's just gone.
But I feel like I'm where I'msupposed to be in my head, but
like my grandma's house has justbeen leveled and I couldn't, I
am messing up my own analogy.
(10:58):
The point is let me back up.
Let me back up the analogy isI'm driving to grandmom's and
when I get there the house isgone.
And what I asked my neurologistis is the house gone or is my
GPS just taking me to the wrongplace?
And she says, no, your GPS istaking you to the right place,
(11:22):
grandma's house is just gone.
And with that I said, okay,good enough, I have to rebuild
it and I have to build that.
And I had to kind of get onwith the business of
intentionally rewiring andtrying to relearn what I had.
And what she said was what Iwas describing was
(11:45):
neuroplasticity and that is therelearning and the rewiring of
information.
Dr Seles (11:52):
Yeah, exactly, Because the brain will rewire itself to
function in the same way butdifferently, if that makes sense
.
And you know, one of the thingsthat's awesome about our brain
is that it is adaptable likeplastic.
And when we think aboutneuroplasticity, it's activity
(12:14):
driven, and so frequently usedpathways are strengthened,
whereas, you know, the pathwaysthat you don't use are weakened.
So it goes back to that sayingof use it or lose it.
Angie (12:31):
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm, mm, hmm.
Dr Seles (12:33):
So there are ways to help build that neuroplasticity,
inform new connections, giventhat the old connections are
either weakened or dead becauseof damage we got to get back
(12:54):
into it, but we got to do our umuh icebreakers.
Oh, this icebreaker this time.
Look, let me.
I already gave my disclaimer,but um so we're going to do uh
recall refresh the disclaimerLike so we're going to do
(13:17):
delayed memory recall and um letthe record show that we'll see
how delayed okay, okay, okay.
So delayed memory recall iswhere I'll give you three words,
(13:37):
you'll give me three words andthen we'll go on with our
conversation and after so longwe'll have to repeat those words
.
Do you want to do five minutesor 10 minutes?
Angie (13:50):
Let's do five minutes, okay, and I actually have a
timer.
All right, Because you know,okay, come on prepare, all right
.
So what are, um, uh, what areyour three words for me?
Dr Seles (14:13):
okay, your three words are light, pillow, kermit.
Angie (14:21):
Light, kermit, kermit, kermit and what?
Dr Seles (14:29):
Light pillow Kermit.
Angie (14:35):
Okay, your three words are pillow camera house.
Dr Seles (14:50):
Okay, pillow camera house.
Angie (14:56):
Pillow camera house.
Yep, okay, all right.
So I have another question.
I already asked you kind ofwhat is neuroplasticity and how
does it work, but how can peoplewith aphasia use
(15:16):
neuroplasticity to improve theircommunication?
Dr Seles (15:24):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So I think people with aphasiacan improve their communication
using neuroplasticity, bytargeting things in your
thinking, your actions and yourroutine.
And what I mean by that is, youknow, the more you do new
(15:47):
things, the more connections arebuilt, and so, rather, it's
establishing a routine to evenstart that process.
So, you know, some people arelike, oh, I don't really have a
routine, I just go with the flow, right?
Um, that's fine.
But when you're trying to buildnew habits or new connections,
(16:11):
then it goes back to that use itor lose it framework, and so
you have to be doing somethingto create that repetitive and
that repetition piece.
So, if you think about yourbrain as a muscle, the only
thing that can help build muscleis actually lifting weights and
doing those types of activitiesto build that muscle, and so
(16:36):
that's one way is, through youractions and your routine, making
sure that you're doing thingsthat are actually like making
your brain think.
So a lot of people sometimeswatch a lot of television, and
the thing about television isthat not only is it a sedentary
(16:58):
activity, but you're not, yourbrain's not doing really
anything, it's just there.
Angie (17:06):
And so those just kind of washing over you.
Dr Seles (17:08):
Exactly, and so activities like that aren't
going to be the best in helpingto create those new neural
pathways, because, legit, you'renot doing nothing see, this is
the after I've been out on anight because you ain't doing
nothing.
Uh, we're celebrating that wewere just published, so so,
(17:34):
pardon the realness because,legit, you're not trying.
Angie (17:38):
No, but I think, yeah, I tried to stay as actively.
That's why I kind of involvedmyself in research as well,
because I wanted to just keepdoing something that would be
helpful after therapy, becauseby the time I got out of therapy
(17:58):
it wasn't I didn't really findI found therapy not to be that
great of um.
I didn't get my greatest gainsthere.
Um, it was definitely after thefact, and I'm sure the
(18:19):
foundation was set in therapy.
So I'm not saying like it was awaste of time, but I wasn't
seeing any gains then, becausethe gains are slow, steady and
silent.
Dr Seles (18:33):
Oh, that part.
Because the other thing too,angie, is that neuroplastic
changes happen all the time, butthe magnitude depends on how
much activity the brain receives.
So again, the more practiceleads to more learning, and it's
not limited in age.
And so you know, with therapyyou were having some of those
(18:53):
changes, but participating inresearch and using your brain in
a different way is going tohelp create stronger connections
.
Angie (19:05):
Like editing a podcast.
Look, okay, Come on editor.
Dr Seles (19:11):
Yes, come on, editor Exactly.
Yes, come on, come on, editorExactly.
Because even in that, like youknow, the world needs to know
that not only do you edit thepodcast, but you will send me
suggestions to help me do mypart, because what we not going
(19:34):
to do, look, and so I think that, even in that, like, you're
really strengthening your brainbecause you're exposing your
brain to these new things and,um, you know, one of the one of
the things about neuroplasticityalso is that that repeated and
directed attention toward athing can also help rewire that
(19:56):
activity.
And so the point that you arereading and learning new things
within the podcast and editingthat's like not only using a
different part of your brain,but also strengthening and
rewiring it as well.
Angie (20:09):
Wow, and you had said something earlier about almost
like it.
When you're saying the brain isa muscle, you had said
something earlier about almostlike it.
When you're saying the brain isa muscle, is it helpful to do
these things?
And like you know, let's sayI'm doing, you know, is it with
working out, like, if I use thattype of Monday, wednesday,
(20:30):
friday, is the?
Do you think the consistencymatters?
Dr Seles (20:36):
Oh yeah, the consistency definitely matters
again, because you'restrengthening and you're
building a new way you thinkabout it, how, if you're
traveling somewhere for thefirst time, you might have to
use a GPS the first time, butthe more you go that route, the
more your brain is going toremember and say, oh okay, well,
(20:59):
no, now I do this, and that'sone of the things.
Another tip that I stronglysuggest, if you're just looking
at your brain and aging, is thatyou know, turn off that GPS
sometimes, because when you'reusing the GPS all the time, even
after you kind of have gonethat way a little bit, it's good
(21:22):
to allow your brain, thatexercise and that practice to
actually try to remember.
Angie (21:29):
And navigate, and navigate.
Dr Seles (21:31):
And navigate it Exactly.
Angie (21:33):
Yeah, I think those type of things where you had to.
You know, back in the day youhad to get the directions from
the guy at the rest stop andhe's like, all right, six lights
make a left, then a right,you're going to see this sign
and then you know straight downand you know, and so it was like
eight different steps.
(21:54):
Then we got MapQuest, now wegot Google quest, now we got
google.
We don't need to know.
Now I don't have to talk tonobody about nothing.
See, but that's taken away fromwhat?
The brain power, or the brain,uh, muscle.
Oh, look at us five minutesokay, okay.
um, this is embarrassing.
(22:15):
Yeah, I'm going to need a.
Can I get a clue?
Dr Seles (22:28):
Can I phone a friend?
Let me go first with minebecause it might trigger one of
yours.
Angie (22:33):
Okay, go ahead.
See Look, I just popped outlike let me go first and I was
like okay, what?
Dr Seles (22:43):
were they um?
Angie (22:44):
it was pillow camera house yes, okay, I have
absolutely no idea.
They were simple words.
Dr Seles (23:02):
Yeah, we had one word in common.
Angie (23:05):
Did we?
Mm-hmm, I gave you one of yourwords back.
Yeah, see, that should havetold you right there.
Dr Seles (23:12):
I thought you were making it easy for me.
Angie (23:14):
No, you need to read the room and recognize I had
forgotten immediately.
So was it all right?
Well, maybe I can do that Wasone of your words.
Pillow?
Yes, Okay, well, which is whythat's very telling.
So, yeah, I have I.
(23:35):
Yeah, I didn't.
I didn't give you pillowbecause that was one of my.
I didn't even know and so I hadactually forgotten immediately,
which is not, uh, not funny.
But wow, and I was trying, youknow, I tried at least hold one
or two of them, but but I didbecause I said pillow, so I gave
(23:56):
that right back to you.
Know, I tried to at least holdone or two of them, but but I
did because I said pillow, so Igave that right back to you,
which was a clue to me.
Yeah, that's a win, that's awin, so that's one.
I got one out of two, one outof two, and that's what we're
doing.
Dr Seles (24:06):
So sometimes with the delayed memory recall type task,
we'll use a strategy to wherewe either visualize it or link
them together.
The words somehow in our mindDid you use?
Angie (24:28):
any of those strategies?
Is that helping?
I did a lot of memory recall atTemple and that they would have
me and what I would do is putthe word in a sentence and then
try to remember the sentence andthen pull the words from there.
(24:49):
But I was not able to or Ididn't do that.
Like that, just my, my onlytrick that I have I failed to
implement.
Okay.
Dr Seles (25:01):
I didn't have a sentence.
You want me to give you a clue,or you just want me to tell you
what they are?
Angie (25:06):
Yeah, I'm going to be honest with you.
I'll take the clue because youknow I'll take the clue, but I'm
not.
Dr Seles (25:11):
So one clue is it's the opposite of dark Light,
mm-hmm.
Angie (25:19):
Yeah, that doesn't even sound familiar, so it was light
pillow, pillow.
Dr Seles (25:25):
Oh you waiting for me to jump in.
Angie (25:30):
I'm looking at you like, and Fog Kermit.
Kermit.
Oh God Dang, go on.
I repeated Kermit twice becauseI didn't hear you say it right?
Oh, that's it.
Yeah, that was not even on the,that wasn't even on the horizon
(25:55):
, that wasn't even in the room.
Yeah, it goes pretty quick.
That memory recall is so not my, I mean, but I am getting
better and it's not as prevalentas it seems.
You're showing me a picture ofKermit and I'm like green, green
(26:16):
frog.
Is that what I said?
I said see frog.
Dr Seles (26:19):
Yeah, but that's okay.
I didn't even think, you know,I didn't even think.
Well, if it means anything, Ididn't even think to say frog, I
thought Kermit, the actualfrog's name.
Angie (26:35):
Yeah, which is what you gave me.
I mean, it's not Right.
This ain't a thousand wordpyramid.
I'm supposed to come up withthe real word.
You gave me a word.
I'm supposed to repeat the word.
Dr Seles (26:45):
Right, it's not.
You were out celebrating withme.
Angie (26:49):
Yes, I went and saw For the record, For the record In
spirit, we went to the footballgame in Friday Night Lights in
Morristown.
We went and saw our high schoolteam play.
My husband and I, we do that onFriday nights.
We go to Chick-fil-A, eat inthe car and then go to the game
(27:10):
and then we come home.
So that was.
Dr Seles (27:14):
So that's okay.
So that's the thing with thethree words.
But I think one of the thingsthat you mentioned that is great
is that you do have a strategyand, yeah, sometimes you
remember them, sometimes youdon't.
Angie (27:32):
I'm in Joy's Got Nuts and Mounds, don't?
It is what it is.
Dr Seles (27:40):
That's the neuroplasticity of the brain,
wow.
Angie (27:46):
And so the things that you just all of a sudden didn't
know, like when you get to your.
It's all about the new rootsthat you create, though, because
even though, um, you know, if Igo back to the grandmom GPS
analogy, you know you can, um,I'm on my way, but then I get
lost midway and it's how do youget the new roots?
(28:09):
Because it's kind of like, youknow, things have been washed
away.
That train of thought, thatpathway is gone.
It's so now, withneuroplasticity, my brain is
rewiring itself and making newpathways to get me to the same
information.
That process, to me, isabsolutely mind blowing, because
(28:36):
the brain is just sofascinating.
But when you're creating thenew pathways, is it going to
take more energy from me, as theperson with brain damage, to
continue to function?
What I'm saying is like am Igoing to be extra tired because
(28:58):
I have this new pathway?
I can't go the original route,but I have this pathway to get
me to the same information.
Is that going to take moreenergy for me to get there?
Does that make sense?
Dr Seles (29:11):
Yeah, I think that everybody is different and I
think that that is a greatquestion, for I do think that
everyone is different and Ithink that that's a great
question for, like your medicalprovider.
But you know, one thing thatyou do have to understand is,
(29:51):
like, oftentimes, people withbrain injury or after a stroke
report feeling fatigue, arefeeling tired because that could
be, you know, when you'resleeping and you're resting,
that's your brain's opportunityto help, um, um kind of
consolidate those new pathwaysand memory.
That's like when your brain isdoing its work.
You know it's learned all thesethings, things that's been
active all day, and so now it'stired and when you have a stroke
you're exhausted all the timeLike you can knock out of a
(30:33):
quick 14, 16 hour sleep sessioneasily.
Angie (30:39):
But when you look at neuroplasticity, is there
anything that a person can dospecific?
Is there anything that a personcan do specific?
Is there anything that peoplewith aphasia can do to increase
their neuroplasticity?
Like to help build those newroots?
Dr Seles (30:59):
Yeah, so there there are a couple of things.
You know.
The biggest thing is to keepthe brain busy, keep it healthy,
and when I say busy, I'm notsaying be a busy body, look let
me differentiate that you justdoing stuff to do stuff.
I'm not saying that just likingeverybody's posts like right I'm
(31:24):
saying you want to do thingsthat are actively requiring,
requiring your brain to thinkthrough things.
So, rather, even if it'ssomething like a word search or
a word puzzle or a puzzle orjust anything that's really
requiring your brain to dosomething, if it's something
(31:44):
that you used to do veryfrequently, like, maybe, cook
and now you're having a hardtime cooking, maybe look at a
recipe, even if it's you know arecipe that you know you follow
before, it might be helpful toto do something like that that
can keep the brain busy and help.
Exercise, of course, issomething that research has
(32:10):
shown to improve, and one of theexercises that I like a lot,
especially with brain recovery,is cross crawl exercises.
Angie (32:19):
What is that?
Dr Seles (32:20):
Yeah, so cross crawl exercises integrate both
hemispheres and strengtheningnetwork the communication of the
corpus callosum, and sobasically it's like if you bring
your right arm to your left legand so think about like
exercises, like either bicyclesor anytime you're, you're making
(32:42):
your right side of the bodycrossover your left side,
because you know the brain iscontralateral and so oftentimes
you know, especially with peoplewith aphasia, they might have
that left hemisphere braindamage, but physically lateral
mean so contralateral is thatthe brain integrates the
(33:04):
opposite side of the body and soinnervates the opposite side of
the body.
And so you know, if someone hasleft side brain damage, they
might physically see thatmanifest on their right side,
and vice versa, If they have aright sided head injury, they
might physically see themanifestation, so numbness or
(33:28):
weakness on the left side.
Angie (33:31):
Right Like so my right hand began to close up the night
of my stroke.
That's because the stroke wason my left side of my brain.
Exactly, and that's also wherethe communication is held.
Dr Seles (33:44):
Right, and so those cross crawl exercises.
It crosses that communicationbecause you're bringing one side
of your body to the other side.
Angie (33:57):
So are there like things we can do?
Dr Seles (33:59):
Yeah, ok, so I do have a couple of neuroplasticity
brain exercises.
Exercises For us to do that.
I looked up and I'll put thesein the show notes.
Angie (34:10):
Okay, you ready?
Yes, Okay.
Dr Seles (34:13):
So the first one is to draw a circle in the air with
your left hand.
Okay, and draw a triangle withyour right hand.
Oh, that's that.
Angie (34:30):
Are you actually doing it?
You know you ain't right.
Okay, I I'm about to pokemyself in the eye okay, I, I
can't, I'm that was.
Dr Seles (34:39):
That was tough, yeah, so that was a little challenging
, but you see how you're doing Istart making rectangles for
both.
Like, Like yeah, okay, I haveanother one.
All right, make two fists withthe hands facing you, okay.
Extend your left thumb, allright, and your right pinky.
(35:07):
Yes, I'm sorry, okay, okay.
So you have your two fists withyour hands facing you.
Extend your left thumb and yourright pinky to the left Left
thumb, right pinky to the left.
Switch back and forth.
Angie (35:25):
Oh, no yeah.
Dr Seles (35:27):
I don't have that one either.
I'm going to blame that one oncelebration.
Okay, yeah, I don't have thatone either.
Angie (35:31):
I'm gonna blame that one on celebration.
Okay, yeah, I don't.
Yeah, I'm listen, angie's aboutto lose her eye, so let's not,
I can't, but that is, that'sgood stuff.
And yeah, those type of umexercises are so key.
I didn't know I couldn't touchmy thumb to my fingers until the
neurologist asked me to do it.
You know, I remember it waslike, oh wow, I didn't know that
(35:55):
that was for me.
It was the things that I wouldlose, that I didn't know were up
for grabs, like I didn't know Icould lose that.
Dr Seles (36:02):
Right.
Angie (36:02):
Even with language.
I didn't know that I could losethe ability to do that, and so
I could lose the ability to dothat, and so yeah that was the
thing for me.
Dr Seles (36:15):
But yeah, that is good stuff.
Yeah, the other thing, too,that we definitely need more
science on, but have shown to beeffective in helping people
with aphasia increaseneuroplasticity, is things like
art and extra well, I saidexercise already, but things
like art and music.
(36:35):
One of the things behind thatis that art and music is like on
the right side of the brain,where you know, like the left
side of the brain is ourlanguage.
Those types of things usuallyreside in the right side, and so
the question is if those arestronger in that area because
(36:57):
the right side of the brainhasn't been influenced by the
stroke that maybe that canstrengthen some of the left side
types of activities.
For an example, if you'rereally big in art and drawing
and things like that, maybe thatcan support language activity,
(37:19):
and again, the research hasn'tconfirmed this to massive
extents.
Okay right, right Don't come,but Right Don't come for me.
But you know, I do think thatthere has to be something to it.
Angie (37:37):
Right, right, absolutely , absolutely, um yeah,
absolutely.
It's early in the morning, Ican't I got.
These words are rushing over me.
I'm not even going to hold you.
Dr Seles (38:00):
What do you mean?
The words are rushing over you.
It's when I don't pick up whatyou're saying.
Okay, okay what I just said.
Yeah, okay, no what I just saidyeah, okay.
Angie (38:10):
No, I'm saying first of all, I'm saying as a whole like
the thing with the words, like Iusually I shouldn't be able to
give you one or two of them back, but there's times where words
just literally rush over me andI don't I'm not picking any of
them up.
I consider it to be like it'slike holding up a red cup at a
(38:33):
fire hydrant.
You know what I mean like it'stoo much.
It's just too much force oryeah, yes at a fire hydrant.
You know what I mean.
Like it's just, the hose is toomuch.
I have the cup, but there'snothing getting in the cup.
That's you know.
Another great analogy from yourgirl what?
Dr Seles (38:50):
yeah, yeah, well, I think the thing about
neuroplasticity and it's one ofthe things that I'm even I mean
it goes to show that when youhave brain fog, or you've been
out the night before and thenyou get up the next morning, how
your brain is still recovering.
(39:12):
No, but I mean I can't, Icouldn't find another word, but
um rebooting rebooting, yes, thebrain is still establishing
with the collective rightrebooting.
So all of that to say.
I understand what you're right.
Angie (39:33):
What judgment?
Dr Seles (39:34):
right what you're saying and, of course, no
judgment, but but what I wassaying about the, the thing I
just said with the umneuroplasticity piece and things
that can help to increase theneuroplasticity with the, with
the art right, um, what I'mbasically trying to say with
(39:56):
that is that the more people dothings that either they enjoy or
that are new to them, the moreplasticity, um, the more they
put themselves at a betterposition to increase plasticity.
Rather, it's learning art,rather it's learning a new song,
(40:17):
whatever it is that's new toyou and can support you.
Angie (40:23):
Actually using your brain, even if it's the creative
side of your brain, can helpbuild neurons okay and
connections I do have to say andpeople laugh at me all the time
because you know, I played mybasketball game online or the
xbox, but it were.
(40:44):
It helped me so much with myhand and eye coordination.
You got to build, you got tobuild a dude to play basketball
for you, and they give you downto the hair follicles.
Is he bald?
Do he have braids?
Is he wearing red?
It's a whole thing, but and acouple of times I just it was at
first I really couldn't even doit, but it's just a matter of
(41:05):
being able to do things that arehard and then stay with it, and
that's the thing, like I likedoing it, and so I just stayed
at it, even when it wasn't goingwell.
And I think sometimes people itdoesn't go well, they get
discouraged and they leave, andI get that too, and I get that
(41:29):
too.
I get that too.
I'm not going to sit here andact like I don't know how that
feels, because I do, but I thinkI just want to encourage people
to continue to try and continueto push forward, because the
only way you can't control thewind, you can only adjust your
sails.
You must adjust.
Dr Seles (41:52):
You can't control the wind.
You can only adjust your sails.
Yeah, I like that Come on sails, come on sails, come on wind.
No, I think that's beautifuland you know we're we're out of
time, but I think that you saidsomething that's so important is
(42:12):
that, even though it waschallenging, you stuck with it,
and the thing, if any message Ican give, it would be find
something that you can beconsistent at and that you can
stick with with, because that'swhat's going to help create some
of those new networks and getyou stronger, and so that's the
(42:43):
biggest thing thing.
But then they fall off and thenthat creates, you know, its own
set of mental health pieces ofoh, I didn't do it, but you kind
of set yourself up so failurefind something that you can be
consistent at.
I think it's a great start allright, well, I'm just gonna.
Angie (43:00):
I have to tell you my quick story and I'm gonna let
you go.
Who's to say?
But I went when I first had mystroke.
Rosetta Stone was on sale andso I brought it and I'm like
I'll learn.
You know, I'm going to get newpathways.
I'm going to learn Spanish.
Ok, I don't, I have, I don'tlisten, I don't know any more
(43:21):
Spanish than I did from 11thgrade Spanish.
Wow, it was so.
Even opening the package waslike overwhelming and I I didn't
get to step one.
Um, and to this day I stillhave it and I totally own the
thing.
But I just couldn't.
It was just that was that's toomuch for what I could do, so I
(43:44):
had to ramp it down a bit, yeah,but anyway, I just wanted to
share that with you.
Thank you, guys for listening,downloading and staying with us.
We are the Brain Friends, brainFriends, brain Friends.
Alright, guys, bye, peace y'all.
Dr Seles (44:17):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Brain Friends.
Please leave us a five-starreview on Apple Podcasts or your
favorite streaming platform.
Also, make sure you subscribeto our YouTube channel.
Angie (44:27):
Brain Friends.
The podcast.
I'm so extra.
Carry on.
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