October 7, 2024 • 38 mins
What if redefining fatherhood could transform how we understand and support our children with autism? This episode features the inspiring Mr. Jamiel Owens, a dedicated advocate for fathers within the autism community. Jamiel shares his remarkable journey from facing personal challenges at a young age to his current role as Family Relations Coordinator at the Center for Autism Research at CHOP. With passion and insight, he highlights the crucial, yet often overlooked, role fathers play in supporting children on the autism spectrum. Our conversation uncovers his mission to empower and inspire other fathers through his radio show and various initiatives.
Communication and empathy are the cornerstones of effective parenting, especially for those raising children with autism. We explore the need for fathers to prioritize their children's needs while seeking support from partners or communities. Mothers, in turn, are encouraged to communicate their needs clearly, understanding that men may process emotions differently. We also delve into the importance of straightforward communication when dealing with law enforcement and healthcare professionals to foster understanding and prevent misunderstandings. This episode offers practical insights into creating a supportive environment for both parents and children.
Jamiel shares the transformative power of genuine connection through personal stories, illustrating how these moments recharge us beyond material possessions. We challenge societal stigmas, encouraging parents to engage actively and intentionally with their children, breaking stereotypes, and understanding their unique perspectives. Embracing therapy and open communication is essential, especially among men, where seeking help is seen as a strength. We discuss the metaphor of the "white picket fence" and encourage parents to embrace their imperfections, allowing their children to define happiness on their own terms. With resources, including Jamiel's book and nonprofit, we provide a roadmap for further support and engagement in the autism community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello friends and families.
Welcome to another episode ofBrain Power with Dr Echo.
It's such a pleasure to be herewith you today.
I have an amazing guest.
He is no other than Mr JamielOwens.
He interviewed me on his showthe Awesome Dad and I had such a
good time I had to bring him onhere so that he could share his
awesomeness with all of you.
(00:20):
So welcome to the show, mrOwens.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I appreciate being here and youknow we were just talking
beforehand.
I might be the first fatherthat you have on this podcast,
so it was definitely a pleasureto be in this space and
represent dads for the first one, because there will be plenty
more.
Hopefully we won't speak toeach other, but I appreciate it
and, yes, you were a guest onthe show the awesome show and it
(00:44):
was amazing to connect with youand I'm excited about this
relationship that we'll build,this friendship and supporting
you any way possible.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yes, and same here too.
So tell the listeners moreabout you, please.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So, if you have not known already, I am an autism
father.
My son, shane, is 16 years old.
You see the flag up.
There we go In back of me.
So I'm a volunteer firefighterhere in Hatfield, pa.
That's where I live atcurrently right now, about an
hour outside of Philadelphia.
I was born in Houston, texas,raised in North Philadelphia,
(01:21):
lived in Philadelphia all mylife and decided to just move on
out to the county now to getsome slow, slow living and some
bunnies and stuff like that.
You know, just a little bit ofgreen grass and everything.
But I've been advocating inthis space for Autism Fathers
since 2014, with the start of mypodcast, which was an awesome
show and then later transformedinto a online radio show and
(01:45):
then an online television show,and now is back on online radio
at wizradiocom, which is aonline radio station christian
music, christian hip-hop music,based out of new jersey excuse
me, uh, shout out to dj wiz.
So that's a little bit about me.
Also, too, I am the familyrelations coordinator at the
(02:06):
center for autism research atchop and and really just love
everything that I.
So that's me in a nutshellwonderful, wow.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So it's actually a radio show.
I had no idea.
I thought it was just an igshow.
Good to know yeah, it's both.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So I like to do the IG because a lot of people are
in the mindset to listen topodcasts.
A lot of people are, but I likelike people to see who we are
talking about for the most part,and I know a lot of podcast
platforms are allowing thevisual aspect as well too.
So once I kind of make moretime I'm able to kind of sit
(02:46):
down and actually do that.
But right now I'm busy, and thereason why I'm busy because
it's like boots on the grounddoing stuff 100%.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And isn't that what life is about?
Right, we need to live out ourpurpose, so that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So let's talk some more about advocating for dads
in the autism space and I cameon your show because I was like
whoa, a dad.
Finally, because as apediatrician I see so many moms
right and it's rare the dads Isee.
So I really applaud you forwhat you're doing, but please
(03:21):
tell our listeners more aboutwhat you do and how you
encourage dads to be moreinvolved.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
So and I get that all the time and I guess that's
kind of like my niche.
That's the reason why I've beenso well-received in this
community, because there hasn'tbeen a lot of dads but then
again there has.
I know two dads, but the thingwith them is that and it's no
disrespect once again people seethey're actually doctors, so
(03:48):
people see them as theirprofession and not so much as an
actual father.
So there are dads in this space.
But I will also advocate to saythat there's not enough.
And I get a lot of great raveand reviews and honor because
I'm doing this type of work andit goes a little bit.
(04:09):
If I, if I sat down and kind oflike really opened up to how my
life was back then, to whereI'm at now, you'll be like, oh
and why?
Because it it didn't make sense.
So I'll give you a little briefsynopsis of my life.
I've been on my own since 16.
(04:30):
I was actually kicked out of myhouse by my mom.
She suffered from schizophreniaand depression, so the streets
basically raised me.
I had to figure out what lifewas as a young man at 16 and
kind of continue to go.
I never finished high school,which is like one of my biggest
regrets.
I went to one of the best highschools.
That still is one of the besthigh schools in Philadelphia
(04:52):
Central High School, and thereason why I didn't graduate is
because, just like a lot ofBlack men, we don't open up and
tell what's going on with us,and I won't want to take it from
the black and brown community,but I want to take it for all
men.
We don't open up that much andtalk about our feelings.
So I internalized everything andthat halted a lot of my
(05:15):
educational possibilities.
I didn't do work and everythinglike that, obviously.
And then I got kicked out and Iwent to a school that was quote
unquote, a neighborhood school,according to addresses,
previous address.
And then I got kicked out and Iwent to a school that was quote
unquote in neighborhood school,according to addresses,
previous address.
And I was like this is not forme anymore.
So I got my GED and just startedworking, and when I mean
working, I was holding like two,three, four jobs at one time
(05:38):
because my mindset was to not bepoor.
But I ended up for a lot ofyears being poor in spirit and
integrity and rich infinancially, financially risk,
but all of those was poorbecause once again, the streets
raised me so fast forward to now.
You look at everything that Ihave been blessed to be able to
(05:59):
do being able to still be aliveand not in prison and not you
know, you know and so many otherthings that normally
African-American males, blackmen, have been, and historically
you know, I'm blessed to beable to love on everybody, no
matter what their skin color, isreligion.
That's really an eye-opener forme and a blessing.
(06:20):
It gives me life every singleday.
So I'm living the dream.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Something that you said is so important.
You said you were rich infinances but poor in everything
else.
Can you talk about that alittle more, Because I think
that's an important mindset forpeople to realize and that there
has to be balance all around?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And it is.
And until you get to a goodplace in that journey, you will
never be able to do.
What I did was to actually sayit or talk about it.
You will be more so.
Like every other child, I grewup in church.
You know, when we say that wegrew up in church, our
(07:07):
grandparents took us to churcheven though we didn't want to be
there.
I remember vaguely I went toBible school and I remember I
had to actually memorize a wholechapter was it for a particular
book in the Bible?
And I memorized the entirething.
I memorized this to the pointwhere, when I was actually
(07:29):
reciting it, the entire churchstood up in ovation.
That's how I remember that.
And then when mygreat-grandmother passed, who
took me away, I just totallyforgot it because it was
associated with our earth.
So, as most of us do forgot itbecause it was associated with
our.
So, as most of us do majorityof us do I just lived off the
(07:49):
world and I was really, reallyabout me, so using people for
what I can use them for, justtrying to get ahead of everybody
else.
I'm not there for my son at theyoung age.
I missed three or four years ofhis life because of the
diagnosis and I'm like, no, I'mgoing to just do me and figure
it out, and things like that.
So I really had to come into afocus of spirituality and what
(08:10):
that was for me, and it helpedme to understand the beauty in
my son and why God gave me thisgift for my life, cause my life
was trash Like what's going onthe wrong, wrong path and my
belief and I don't want toimpose my beliefs on anybody
else, but my belief is that Godgave me this child to impose my
(08:32):
actual purpose on this planet,because he knew I was going to
squander that away.
You know, I always wanted to bea police officer in public
service.
You know, firefighter, and Godwas like I'm going to use you as
a public service.
You know, firefighter, and, and,and God was like I'm going to
use you as a public servant.
But you're going to be a publicservant for those just like
your son and you're going tofind more, more fulfillment and
(08:54):
enrichment and loving in othersand pouring out and pouring
yourself empty, and your, your,your cup is going to be refilled
from the love that they receiveand give back to you and what I
do for you.
So it's important.
It's important, vitallyimportant, and I'm not here to
make case on what religion youshould practice, but find a
(09:15):
spiritual grounding, becausethat is the only thing that's
going to make you accountableand a better person for every
single body, not just yourfamily, not just your community,
for everybody on this planet,and we need that nowadays.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yes, we need that and you're absolutely right.
Yes, I believe God puts us herefor a purpose and he wants to
use us in whatever it is we findour hands to do With you.
You found your purpose inhelping other dads love on their
kids and be there for theirkids.
So you also mentioned somethingearlier about when you first
(09:52):
had the diagnosis for your son.
You missed three or four yearsof life and I feel like a lot of
dads grieve the child that theywere expecting.
I mean, it's not just dads,moms.
But since you're a dad, we'regoing to talk about other dads,
right?
So can you talk to dads aboutthat process of how can they
walk through that grievingprocess to accept the child and
(10:15):
see their children as gifts?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I definitely can.
The first part I want to sayfor the father specifically man
up, this is not about you.
So when I'm talking to my dadsbecause this was a hard pill I
had to swallow you have tounderstand the moment you have
child, the moment of conceptionin that woman, in your wife, in
your partner.
Whatever the case may be, it isno longer about you.
(10:40):
Often, as fathers, as men, weimmediately spring into action
to provide, but then we getbarreled backwards when we're
like but what about me?
It's not about you.
You have to man up, you have toeducate yourself.
You have to lean on yourpartner, if that's possible.
If that's not possible, if youguys are not together, you must
(11:02):
lean on a community of otherdads, if there is, if you're,
you know other moms, otherfamilies that are actually going
through this journey.
That's for the dads, for themoms.
You have to be sympathetic tounderstand that the language
that you speak as a woman doesnot correlate the language
that's understood as a man.
(11:25):
We desire to fix things and whenwe receive this diagnosis and
I'm speaking from my ownpersonal thing we are given a
certificate that says hey, guesswhat, you can't fix things.
And when we receive thisdiagnosis and I'm speaking from
my own personal thing we aregiven a certificate that says
hey, guess what?
You can't fix this.
That is a strike on our ego andpride.
So, though, moms, we areinternalizing that because we
(11:46):
are the strength, or trying tobe the strength, of the family,
the communication or what youactually need at that moment
must be, at layman's terms hey,babe, honey, I need a hug,
because at that moment we'retrying to process why we can't
fix it, how we could go aroundthat and fix it.
And then the last thing,unfortunately and we apologize
(12:09):
is you and your feelings.
It's all about us when wereceive that diagnosis.
So do a favor by just simplyexplaining what you need.
And sometimes you know, ascouples, as men and women,
married couples, we're like well, I shouldn't have to explain my
partnership, manomi, we're notmind readers, you're not mind
(12:30):
readers.
So the same thing, fathers,we're not mind readers, you're
not mind readers.
So the same thing, fathers, youmust, in lamest terms, explain
to your partner, your wife hey,babe, I'm having a hard time
internalizing this.
Can you help educate me, likeyou're educated, on what autism
spectrum disorder looks like?
What are some things that ourchild is doing Characteristics
that are highlighted in thisparticular piece of document.
(12:53):
It's about communication, andit's going to be tested even
more after the diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
That was so.
Oh my goodness, that was sotrue.
We each think each other is amind reader and it's really
about empathy and communication,right?
Each person looking out for thebest of the other person,
saying I know this is hard, Iknow it's hard to hear, but I'm
here for you, right?
Each person looking out for thebest of the other person saying
I know this is hard, I knowit's hard to hear, but I'm here
for you, right?
And just stating what we need.
(13:19):
Yes, I hear you.
I always tell my mom, tell thedads what you need.
They have no idea because wewomen are like you should know.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Some of us men are like yeah, you should know, and
it's not fair.
It's not fair generalized topeople.
I'm not a money reader, likeyou have to know.
So let's take a perfect example.
Let's take a perfect exampleand I'm going to use this
because I do a lot of advocacywork in law enforcement and
neurodiversity A police officerpulls you over.
(13:54):
You're a young woman with autism.
He comes up to the car and he'slooking at you and you're all
over the place, obviouslybecause now your anxiety has
heightened.
Now it's like a sensoryoverload, and he's immediately
thinking just off of perception.
He or she is like okay, wepossibly have someone that's on
drugs or intoxicated.
(14:15):
Where, though, you're a personthat is on the autism spectrum.
Now here's the thing If youdon't communicate that with the
officer and sometimes a lot ofpeople as autistics themselves
they're like well, I don't wantto give my diagnosis.
Well, when you don't give yourdiagnosis on who you are, you
don't advocate for yourself andyou do not hold the other party
(14:40):
accountable now of theinformation that you have given
them.
So it is important to say hey,just want to let you know,
officer, I'm on the autismspectrum, so please be patient
with me, bang.
You're not saying, hey, I'm onan autism spectrum.
I please be patient with me,bang.
You're not saying hey, I'm onthe autism spectrum, I live here
.
My blood type is this.
This is my social securitynumber.
You're not giving all thatinformation, you're just letting
(15:01):
the officer know at that timeon how he should handle the
situation.
You put the onus on him.
So that's communication, that'sletting them know.
We have to do that.
When it comes down to raisingthis child, to understanding the
diagnosis together, whetheryou're together or not, we have
to do that Even for doctors, torelease that information to
(15:24):
patients.
Get away with the jargon.
Hey, listen, I want to talk toyou, mom and dad.
Do you know anything aboutautism spectrum disorder?
No, let me talk to you aboutwhat exactly that is and why I'm
telling you this and now breakit down.
You know, once you just did,you just became their friend,
their ally.
Now you're educating theminstead of telling them hey,
this is what it is.
(15:44):
Good luck, you know.
So, yeah, you just got me onthe ring.
I was thinking about it.
I'm like, let me put my littletwo gems in here real quick.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I just got a really important line from what you
said.
That parents should teach theirchildren is like just say I
have autism and please bepatient.
That's it.
That's all you do, the childrencan say that to their friends at
school.
The children can say that tothe teachers so that they like
(16:12):
okay, come down here because youknow there's 25 kids in the
class and there's like all ofthis going on and this child may
be having sensory overload anddoesn't know how to handle it.
I bet you parents can tell yourteachers that too.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Right it's interesting because, in a
society.
We won't disclaim that.
But we'll disclaim our identity, our pronouns.
We'll disclaim that immediately.
But when it comes down toneurodiversity, we hold back.
And why is that?
That is a part of you.
So when you say, hey, I'm anautistic or I have autism,
(16:52):
you're letting me know who youare.
We are instantly thinking, ohwell, they're going to devalue
me as a person and that's nottrue.
So I'm trying to really reallywork within the black and brown
community and I get it.
We have been marginalized by somany things.
It's just like I don't want mychild to go through it.
(17:14):
We have been marginalized by somany things.
It's just like I don't want mychild to go through it.
But I'm telling you as a fatherof a 16 year old who's on a
cusp of understanding this worldwe're trying to.
I am trying to prevent my sonfrom being in prison or being
dead because of the lack ofpronunciation on who he is as a
(17:34):
person.
My name is Shane.
I am a young man, a black youngman, who happens to have autism
.
This is how I work.
Please be patient and kind.
Nothing wrong with it.
There's nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
That is so empowering , because it's his identity.
I mean, it's part of him.
It's not something that'sremoved, right, and it's nothing
to be ashamed of, like you said, definitely, and that's why
we're doing what we do.
It's like there is no, all ofthose barriers and all of those
labels.
It doesn't define your child.
(18:11):
Your child is your preciouschild.
It doesn't define your child.
We just need your child to beprotected and so if it means
that's what we say, that's whatwe say so that we can get the
best treatment.
And you're absolutely right,because now the onus is on the
other person, now they know,they can't claim that oh, you
were just disrupted.
Well, we told you.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, we told you, we gave you a disclaimer, we let
you know how we are, and thenyou didn't internalize that, you
didn't think about that, andnow you're coming back saying oh
well, you know you're trying toput all this on us, but it's no
, we gave you what we are.
We gave you that information inadvance for you to dissect that
, to unpack that, to say, okay,how am I going to address this
(18:55):
individual differently, notdifferently in a form of putting
them in a corner, but how am Igoing to make sure and we're
talking about education now as ateacher, so let's make sure
people are following us how am Igoing to educate this person
about this neurotypical life ina way that they will understand
how they stand in it, empowerthem to continue to stand in it
(19:21):
and to build and to move forward?
We're not equipping and I'mgoing to put this little tidbit
out there for all the teachersand the educational powers that
be we're not equipping thesystem, the teachers, enough to
understand neurodiversity.
We are basing our educationsystem on a old model from the
(19:41):
1800s.
If you look at the firstspecial needs school that was
actually established in theUnited States, that was in the
1800s.
Now, obviously, we have mended,we have added so many different
programs.
I'm not knocking down theeducational system, but I will
say this.
You can track me down theeducation system is not built
(20:04):
for neurodiversity.
There is no part in theeducational system that is built
for neurodiversity.
So what we like or I can speakas an autism parent is we need
to come together.
Autism parents, stop pointing afinger.
Let's come together and workwith these educational leaders,
these administrative staff, andbuild up the school district to
(20:27):
include our children for thegenerations to come.
Because, as of right now, ourchildren for the generations to
come.
Because, as of right now,there's no, there's no cure you
know progression of getting ridof autism, nor should there be.
That is a person that you'retalking about.
So we have to use properlanguage, language that is not
ableistic, language that's goingto empower autistics.
(20:47):
We are knowing that this willbe something where we will have
future generations of autisticindividuals.
So why are we not rebuilding theeducation system to make sure
that we are including thesepeople?
I don't understand that and Iwant to make sure I respect
people.
I respect educators, I respectthe administrative staff, I
(21:08):
respect the superintendents.
What I don't respect is thelack of building and connecting
in order to make somethinghappen that's going to enrich
not only now but later on downthe line.
I'm a, since I've been in thisspace, I have really been a man
of action.
I talk it, but I also, if youcame to me, a superintendent
(21:31):
called me off this interview andwas like hey, I've seen your
interview, I want to talk to youabout doing some stuff.
I'm rolling up my sleevesinstantly and saying let's get
to work, let's make it happen,let's do some things.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
No, no, what you said is true, because I mean, it's
the same thing in the medicalfield.
Oh, we all need to cometogether to continuously build
and not just stay where we usedto be and continuously learn.
As we are learning more andmore in research, we need to put
that into practice and makethat practical for the child.
(22:03):
Right Now, it's like what's therates?
One in 36 kids.
So you definitely have to dosome work to boost the school
system to be able to cater forthese kids, and I like what you
said teaching them about theneurotypical life where they are
right and they're notneurotypical, but that's the
(22:26):
world around them.
So how do we prepare them to bethe best version of themselves
in vastly neurotypical world?
So, yes, you're absolutelyright, lots of work to do.
Yes, we have to keep talkingabout this, for sure, and I like
that you were taking actionwhere possible.
And so, for all of the teachersand educators listening, please
(22:50):
reach out to Mr Owens.
He will be amazing to come toyour school and help you guys
with practical strategies tomove forward.
Well, it didn't work.
It didn't work for you.
Yes, and you can call me too.
Me and him can go together.
That's fine, but please callhim.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Let's get it done.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yes, for sure.
So what would you say to dadsabout how can they build up
their sons as they're growing up, and their daughters, their
kids, to understand who they areand to see themselves as able,
to see themselves as valuable?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
So it and I revert this to to religion, because you
know, in a Bible, in a text, ittells you to to die to oneself,
right.
So I had to die to who JamilOwens was in the world, to
understand, to become JamilOwens in the kingdom's light and
how everybody else will receiveme.
(23:48):
So I had to die to myself.
And I tell you I'm going togive you a story, because I
counsel a lot of autism fathers.
I'm always getting called.
That's what I love to do.
They can always call me and wecan kind of talk and unpack
things.
But this dad out of New York,he reached out to me and he's
like Jamel, it's raining overhere and my son will not get out
(24:13):
of the rain.
He's just standing outside inthe rain looking up and he's
playing and he's just in therain and I need him to come in
and I can't do it.
And I asked him and I said well, why aren't you out there in?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
the rain.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And he said because it's raining.
And I said this is what I wantyou to do.
I want you to go outside in therain, I don't care if you get
dirty, put on some clothes thatyou don't really care about.
Sit down in the rain, lay downin the rain.
But lay down in the rain andimmerse yourself into his world
(24:44):
for one moment.
Understand him.
That connection is not going tobe verbal, it's going to be
visual and it's going to bephysical, and these are the
things that are going to breakyou down in order to establish a
connection with your childdeeper than anything else.
So he did it.
I thought he wasn't going to doit, but he did it.
He called me back and he's likethat was amazing, like I saw
(25:05):
for one moment.
It wasn't about car payments,it wasn't about bills, it wasn't
about the stressors of theworld, this divorce I'm going
through.
It was really just about me andmy son and I understood what he
saw and I enjoyed it and Irejoiced in it.
So I tell that story forparents because we have a lot of
(25:27):
stressors, but it has to bethat one moment, or a couple
moments in life where youdisconnect from this world and
you enter in their world and yousit in it and you just observe
how they see the world and whenI tell you it'll give you an
instant recharge.
It will instantly recharge whoyou are as a person.
(25:49):
That's my advice Removeyourself from this world.
Change yourself Brand new meright, so we see that on
Instagram all the time I'mreintroducing myself.
Reintroduce yourself with anempathetic, compassionate
version of yourself.
The only way you're going to dothat is by taking yourself and
(26:10):
connecting with your childdirectly and just being in that
moment, and then you'll attackthis world and see it in a
different way.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So powerful, oh my goodness Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I've had one of those moments, too, in Puerto Rico
with my goodness.
Wow, I've had.
I had one of those moments, too, in Puerto Rico with my son,
and I can tell you I wrote aboutit in this book I co-authored,
called Superheroes on theSpectrum.
Me and 33 other authors are inthat book and I wrote about my
particular time with him and therest of the family in Puerto
Rico and how we just connectedme and him.
(26:45):
And you know what it was.
It was me holding them up inthe water and spinning around,
and for that moment, phillydidn't matter.
In that moment, nothing elsemattered but seeing him trust me
and connecting in a part of whohe is, because he's he's half
Hispanic, so connecting in hisculture, and seeing him relax
(27:07):
and be one with nature.
And that was the moment where Iwas like, oh, my God, like this
is, this is the recharge Ineeded.
So, yeah, I walk the walk, Italk the talk.
It's not just all fun and game.
I'm telling you guys, I'mletting you know.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
And that's true wealth.
That's part of the wealthyou're talking about Right,
because it's true wealth.
That's part of the wealthyou're talking about right,
because it's priceless.
So it sounds like we parentsneed to do better about being
intentional, about being presentwith our kids.
It doesn't take hours.
Let's put down our phones andactually look at these kids in
the eye.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
If you're a divorcee and you know you get your child
on the weekends, like I do.
You know I do this every time Ipick up Shane.
I ask him so tell me about yourtwo weeks that I haven't seen.
And he runs down everythingthat it is with two weeks and I
listen to him and I ask himquestions and that's that's the
rundown.
But then also, too, I createthat social story about what
(27:59):
we're doing for the weekend.
So I give him a structure ofwhat to actually anticipate for
a weekend, and now that's abuilding block to our weekend.
So now we started it off right.
But I also let you know toothat there are some times where
me and Shane are out in public.
If he's just riding around,sometimes he might just grab for
my hand to hold it and while asmen we'll sit there and be like
(28:22):
I'm not doing that.
No, that's not what you do.
That looks a little suspect,but is it really?
Or is it really a communicationthat your son is trying, or
your daughter is trying torelate to you?
Maybe they need you in thatpoint and they're having a
sensory overload for some reason.
Maybe it's that we got to takeaway these stigmas and that
pride.
So I hold his hand I don't care, and they're locked and
(28:45):
everything to let him know thatI'm here for him and I, I'm that
regulator.
If he needs me to be theregulator, I'm going to be the
regulator and when he gets donethen we'll unhinge hands and and
then we'll continue on withwhat that looks like as far as
our relationship.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Oh, my goodness, and I mean that goes for mom, that
goes for dad.
Yeah, you're so right.
All the stigmas that you can'thold hands Like really.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, like, okay, they're our kids, we gave birth
to them.
Okay, if you think so, well,he's a grown man, so what?
So what?
What happens when we get closeto death, unfortunately?
What do you want to do?
What's the first thing that youwant to do?
Do you want to hold anothergrown person's hand?
(29:30):
So the moment of thattransition is saying it's okay,
it's going to be okay.
You're giving them aconfirmation that everything is
going to be okay.
So why wouldn't I do that now?
Why wouldn't you do that now?
I don't care if he's 16.
I don't care if he's 16.
I don't care if he's 21.
If he wants to hold my hand inpublic, I'm going to hold his
hand Doesn't mean anything.
It just means that I killed mypride and my ego for my child.
(29:55):
That's what that means.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
And that is the definition of love.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
It is Yep, pure love.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Oh, my goodness, we could just go on and on.
This has been so amazing.
I know I know this is this is agreat conversation.
I think a lot of interviews areare kind of structured on on
the surface level stuff andthey're not really hitting the
deep points.
That is needed to be heard, anda lot of times, too, it has to
deal with the guests becausethey're not trying to be as
transparent as possible, andthat's okay.
Transparency comes in differentforms and different times in
(30:31):
people's lives.
I've had a rough life.
In order to keep my sanity andto to try to build and be a
better person, it is the bestinterest of me to actually be
open and be transparent and tospeak life into other people, or
I could, you know, end uppsychosis myself, and I don't
want to do that.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yes, I mean there is no way to heal unless you open
up you think about the wound,right, we open it up so that all
the poison can come out.
I mean there's no way to healour mind unless we let whatever
is in there out so that we cannow put new things in there,
right, and new experiences andall of that.
So you're absolutely right.
And what's your take on therapy?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Do it.
I'm in therapy right now,though I advise other men, and
sometimes women in family units.
I'm in therapy too, because Ihave a lot of past traumas that
I've worked through or I'mcurrently working through from
things that affected me longbefore.
Like I said, everybody has astory.
I have a crazy story.
I shouldn't be here right now,and while doing this helps me
(31:35):
also, too, I need to speak tosomebody, because I do know that
there are some other thingsthat I internalized that I don't
need to, and for everybodylistening right now.
You're not perfect.
You're not perfect, but I loveyou the way you are and you
should be heard and you shouldbe valued.
And the only way that you'regoing to be heard and valued is
if you get things off of yourchest, and sometimes that's not
(31:57):
coming off as cocky or vain.
Sometimes that needs to be inan intimate setting with you and
a provider.
But also remember this too isthat provider is not perfect as
well, too.
They're only limiting andgiving you advice from what they
personally know or what theyhave been educated on.
So as long as you know thattransaction and how to take that
(32:18):
transaction and value thattransaction, you will understand
.
You know it comes with acomplete level of competence
that will give you confidence inwho you are.
Start to build you for yourpassion, your purpose.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yes, thank you.
Yes, everybody should be intherapy Me too.
I absolutely think you're rightand I like that you said
they're also human and they'renot perfect either.
But yes, it's important to getthe things off your chest and
even for your children, tonormalize it, and that's how I
get my teenagers that I see togo to therapy.
(32:51):
I'm like, do I look crazy?
No, okay, I'm in therapy, so itwill help you too, and then
they're more likely to do it.
But yes, especially, I meanI've heard I'm not a man, but
I've heard that or I've seenthat men often struggle with the
thought of going to therapy.
But I'm so glad you said itbecause it's not about the ego.
(33:12):
It doesn't make you less of aman.
It actually enhances you andhelp heal and walk through the
things so that you can show upas the man, like you said, for
your family and for yourchildren.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
No problem, thank you , I appreciate it.
Shameless plug before we getoff.
So this shirt right here.
Autism 365, this is a actualspace in a library, started by a
librarian who has a personalconnection with the neurodiverse
community.
It's in Winfield, pennsylvania,which is like the city line
Avenue area.
So I want to give a shout out toMary and everybody there, her
(33:51):
staff and then my book.
My book is on Amazon.
Life is a puzzle guy.
Gave you a cheat sheet.
I have seven books.
I didn't mention that.
I even have a journal in therefor fathers acknowledgement and
affirmation.
So definitely a shameless plug.
I want to put that out there.
But also, too, I know that youlike to give a little tip for
for everyone out there.
So for none of you have heardme do a presentation or a talk,
(34:15):
I want to give you a piece of myfavorite part of a talk piece.
Right, it's a white picketfence.
In American culture we are toldto work to get the big house,
beautiful car, beautiful familythe white picket fence right.
So two ways I want you to lookat this while you're listening
to me is one, as your loved one,the autistic individual
(34:37):
themselves, their white picketfence is not going to look the
same as yours mom and dad.
So if you ever heard of the termfacilitated communicator, that
is when one person actuallysupposedly helps individual who
is on a autism spectrum or withintellectual disabilities
communicate using a CPAT, it'sbeen debunked.
It's been found that the personthe actual assistant, has been
(35:01):
the one that's communicatingtheir thoughts right.
So are you a facilitatedcommunicator in their life?
Their house might be aone-bedroom apartment with a
service dog or a service catworking at Wendy's, but they're
happy.
That's their white picket fence.
And then for you, parents, yourwhite picket fence is never
going to look white.
There's going to be panesmissing, there's going to be
(35:23):
scratches, there's going to bedirt, there's going to be a
colored paint.
It is not going to look white,but it's your picket fence.
And the best thing about picketfences is that every now and
then it can be taken down and itcan be built back up.
So I want to empower bothautistic individuals to continue
to build your white picketfence and know that you have a
(35:44):
support system and your familiesare looking for.
Build your white picket fenceand know that you have a support
system and your families arelooking for the best white
picket fence to fit who you areand parents.
I want you to understand thatyou are building your white
picket fence and it doesn't haveto look the same.
Allow it to have some painsmissing, allow it to have some
drawings, some scratches, butyou know what?
At the end of the day, that'syour property, that's your white
(36:05):
picket fence that you can beproud of.
So that's the tip that I'mleaving you with.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Wow, oh my goodness.
So please fathers listening.
Call Paula, mr Owen, and wherecan they find you?
Speaker 2 (36:21):
They can find me.
I'm on Instagram, facebook.
I need to get a little bitbetter on Facebook, but the
handles are the Awesome ShowT-H-E-A-U-S-O-M-E-S-H-O-W, and
then Awesomeness Incorporated,which is my nonprofit
organization, and that isA-U-S-O-M-E-N-E-S-S-I-N-C.
(36:41):
Both of those are on Facebookand Instagram.
Yeah you can find me.
You can find me there.
Send me a message.
Look at some of my content.
I'm on TikTok too.
I'm trying to be everywhere isjust too much.
I don't have that much time,but I also do a lot of talks.
I'm on LinkedIn as well, too,under Jamel Owens.
You can find me there as well,too.
(37:01):
But yeah, I appreciate a follow, suggestions, comments.
If you're an autisticindividual, always educate me,
because I'm learning.
I'm learning about you, I'mlearning about my son, I'm
learning about everybody to beable to give this information
out so Wonderful, that'sfantastic.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Thank you so much.
Please share this with as manypeople as need to hear this, in
your community, in your life, atwork, because we all can be
better every day.
We're all better every day byone question, and you can love a
kid every day better.
That's the definition of loveand that's the definition of
(37:39):
living life, because everythingelse will follow right.
So thank you so much forlistening, thank you so much for
coming on here.
I so appreciate it and untilthe next episode, everybody take
care.
Hello friends and families.
Welcome to another episode ofBrain Power with Dr Echo.
It's such a pleasure to be herewith you today.
I have an amazing guest.
He is no other than Mr JamielOwens.
He interviewed me on his showthe Awesome Dad and I had such a
good time I had to bring him onhere so that he could share his
awesomeness with all of you.
(00:20):
So welcome to the show, mrOwens.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I appreciate being here and youknow we were just talking
beforehand.
I might be the first fatherthat you have on this podcast,
so it was definitely a pleasureto be in this space and
represent dads for the first one, because there will be plenty
more.
Hopefully we won't speak toeach other, but I appreciate it
and, yes, you were a guest onthe show the awesome show and it
(00:44):
was amazing to connect with youand I'm excited about this
relationship that we'll build,this friendship and supporting
you any way possible.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yes, and same here too.
So tell the listeners moreabout you, please.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So, if you have not known already, I am an autism
father.
My son, shane, is 16 years old.
You see the flag up.
There we go In back of me.
So I'm a volunteer firefighterhere in Hatfield, pa.
That's where I live atcurrently right now, about an
hour outside of Philadelphia.
I was born in Houston, texas,raised in North Philadelphia,
(01:21):
lived in Philadelphia all mylife and decided to just move on
out to the county now to getsome slow, slow living and some
bunnies and stuff like that.
You know, just a little bit ofgreen grass and everything.
But I've been advocating inthis space for Autism Fathers
since 2014, with the start of mypodcast, which was an awesome
show and then later transformedinto a online radio show and
(01:45):
then an online television show,and now is back on online radio
at wizradiocom, which is aonline radio station christian
music, christian hip-hop music,based out of new jersey excuse
me, uh, shout out to dj wiz.
So that's a little bit about me.
Also, too, I am the familyrelations coordinator at the
(02:06):
center for autism research atchop and and really just love
everything that I.
So that's me in a nutshellwonderful, wow.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So it's actually a radio show.
I had no idea.
I thought it was just an igshow.
Good to know yeah, it's both.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So I like to do the IG because a lot of people are
in the mindset to listen topodcasts.
A lot of people are, but I likelike people to see who we are
talking about for the most part,and I know a lot of podcast
platforms are allowing thevisual aspect as well too.
So once I kind of make moretime I'm able to kind of sit
(02:46):
down and actually do that.
But right now I'm busy, and thereason why I'm busy because
it's like boots on the grounddoing stuff 100%.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And isn't that what life is about?
Right, we need to live out ourpurpose, so that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So let's talk some more about advocating for dads
in the autism space and I cameon your show because I was like
whoa, a dad.
Finally, because as apediatrician I see so many moms
right and it's rare the dads Isee.
So I really applaud you forwhat you're doing, but please
(03:21):
tell our listeners more aboutwhat you do and how you
encourage dads to be moreinvolved.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
So and I get that all the time and I guess that's
kind of like my niche.
That's the reason why I've beenso well-received in this
community, because there hasn'tbeen a lot of dads but then
again there has.
I know two dads, but the thingwith them is that and it's no
disrespect once again people seethey're actually doctors, so
(03:48):
people see them as theirprofession and not so much as an
actual father.
So there are dads in this space.
But I will also advocate to saythat there's not enough.
And I get a lot of great raveand reviews and honor because
I'm doing this type of work andit goes a little bit.
(04:09):
If I, if I sat down and kind oflike really opened up to how my
life was back then, to whereI'm at now, you'll be like, oh
and why?
Because it it didn't make sense.
So I'll give you a little briefsynopsis of my life.
I've been on my own since 16.
(04:30):
I was actually kicked out of myhouse by my mom.
She suffered from schizophreniaand depression, so the streets
basically raised me.
I had to figure out what lifewas as a young man at 16 and
kind of continue to go.
I never finished high school,which is like one of my biggest
regrets.
I went to one of the best highschools.
That still is one of the besthigh schools in Philadelphia
(04:52):
Central High School, and thereason why I didn't graduate is
because, just like a lot ofBlack men, we don't open up and
tell what's going on with us,and I won't want to take it from
the black and brown community,but I want to take it for all
men.
We don't open up that much andtalk about our feelings.
So I internalized everything andthat halted a lot of my
(05:15):
educational possibilities.
I didn't do work and everythinglike that, obviously.
And then I got kicked out and Iwent to a school that was quote
unquote, a neighborhood school,according to addresses,
previous address.
And then I got kicked out and Iwent to a school that was quote
unquote in neighborhood school,according to addresses,
previous address.
And I was like this is not forme anymore.
So I got my GED and just startedworking, and when I mean
working, I was holding like two,three, four jobs at one time
(05:38):
because my mindset was to not bepoor.
But I ended up for a lot ofyears being poor in spirit and
integrity and rich infinancially, financially risk,
but all of those was poorbecause once again, the streets
raised me so fast forward to now.
You look at everything that Ihave been blessed to be able to
(05:59):
do being able to still be aliveand not in prison and not you
know, you know and so many otherthings that normally
African-American males, blackmen, have been, and historically
you know, I'm blessed to beable to love on everybody, no
matter what their skin color, isreligion.
That's really an eye-opener forme and a blessing.
(06:20):
It gives me life every singleday.
So I'm living the dream.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Something that you said is so important.
You said you were rich infinances but poor in everything
else.
Can you talk about that alittle more, Because I think
that's an important mindset forpeople to realize and that there
has to be balance all around?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And it is.
And until you get to a goodplace in that journey, you will
never be able to do.
What I did was to actually sayit or talk about it.
You will be more so.
Like every other child, I grewup in church.
You know, when we say that wegrew up in church, our
(07:07):
grandparents took us to churcheven though we didn't want to be
there.
I remember vaguely I went toBible school and I remember I
had to actually memorize a wholechapter was it for a particular
book in the Bible?
And I memorized the entirething.
I memorized this to the pointwhere, when I was actually
(07:29):
reciting it, the entire churchstood up in ovation.
That's how I remember that.
And then when mygreat-grandmother passed, who
took me away, I just totallyforgot it because it was
associated with our earth.
So, as most of us do forgot itbecause it was associated with
our.
So, as most of us do majorityof us do I just lived off the
(07:49):
world and I was really, reallyabout me, so using people for
what I can use them for, justtrying to get ahead of everybody
else.
I'm not there for my son at theyoung age.
I missed three or four years ofhis life because of the
diagnosis and I'm like, no, I'mgoing to just do me and figure
it out, and things like that.
So I really had to come into afocus of spirituality and what
(08:10):
that was for me, and it helpedme to understand the beauty in
my son and why God gave me thisgift for my life, cause my life
was trash Like what's going onthe wrong, wrong path and my
belief and I don't want toimpose my beliefs on anybody
else, but my belief is that Godgave me this child to impose my
(08:32):
actual purpose on this planet,because he knew I was going to
squander that away.
You know, I always wanted to bea police officer in public
service.
You know, firefighter, and Godwas like I'm going to use you as
a public service.
You know, firefighter, and, and,and God was like I'm going to
use you as a public servant.
But you're going to be a publicservant for those just like
your son and you're going tofind more, more fulfillment and
(08:54):
enrichment and loving in othersand pouring out and pouring
yourself empty, and your, your,your cup is going to be refilled
from the love that they receiveand give back to you and what I
do for you.
So it's important.
It's important, vitallyimportant, and I'm not here to
make case on what religion youshould practice, but find a
(09:15):
spiritual grounding, becausethat is the only thing that's
going to make you accountableand a better person for every
single body, not just yourfamily, not just your community,
for everybody on this planet,and we need that nowadays.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yes, we need that and you're absolutely right.
Yes, I believe God puts us herefor a purpose and he wants to
use us in whatever it is we findour hands to do With you.
You found your purpose inhelping other dads love on their
kids and be there for theirkids.
So you also mentioned somethingearlier about when you first
(09:52):
had the diagnosis for your son.
You missed three or four yearsof life and I feel like a lot of
dads grieve the child that theywere expecting.
I mean, it's not just dads,moms.
But since you're a dad, we'regoing to talk about other dads,
right?
So can you talk to dads aboutthat process of how can they
walk through that grievingprocess to accept the child and
(10:15):
see their children as gifts?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I definitely can.
The first part I want to sayfor the father specifically man
up, this is not about you.
So when I'm talking to my dadsbecause this was a hard pill I
had to swallow you have tounderstand the moment you have
child, the moment of conceptionin that woman, in your wife, in
your partner.
Whatever the case may be, it isno longer about you.
(10:40):
Often, as fathers, as men, weimmediately spring into action
to provide, but then we getbarreled backwards when we're
like but what about me?
It's not about you.
You have to man up, you have toeducate yourself.
You have to lean on yourpartner, if that's possible.
If that's not possible, if youguys are not together, you must
(11:02):
lean on a community of otherdads, if there is, if you're,
you know other moms, otherfamilies that are actually going
through this journey.
That's for the dads, for themoms.
You have to be sympathetic tounderstand that the language
that you speak as a woman doesnot correlate the language
that's understood as a man.
(11:25):
We desire to fix things and whenwe receive this diagnosis and
I'm speaking from my ownpersonal thing we are given a
certificate that says hey, guesswhat, you can't fix things.
And when we receive thisdiagnosis and I'm speaking from
my own personal thing we aregiven a certificate that says
hey, guess what?
You can't fix this.
That is a strike on our ego andpride.
So, though, moms, we areinternalizing that because we
(11:46):
are the strength, or trying tobe the strength, of the family,
the communication or what youactually need at that moment
must be, at layman's terms hey,babe, honey, I need a hug,
because at that moment we'retrying to process why we can't
fix it, how we could go aroundthat and fix it.
And then the last thing,unfortunately and we apologize
(12:09):
is you and your feelings.
It's all about us when wereceive that diagnosis.
So do a favor by just simplyexplaining what you need.
And sometimes you know, ascouples, as men and women,
married couples, we're like well, I shouldn't have to explain my
partnership, manomi, we're notmind readers, you're not mind
(12:30):
readers.
So the same thing, fathers,we're not mind readers, you're
not mind readers.
So the same thing, fathers, youmust, in lamest terms, explain
to your partner, your wife hey,babe, I'm having a hard time
internalizing this.
Can you help educate me, likeyou're educated, on what autism
spectrum disorder looks like?
What are some things that ourchild is doing Characteristics
that are highlighted in thisparticular piece of document.
(12:53):
It's about communication, andit's going to be tested even
more after the diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
That was so.
Oh my goodness, that was sotrue.
We each think each other is amind reader and it's really
about empathy and communication,right?
Each person looking out for thebest of the other person,
saying I know this is hard, Iknow it's hard to hear, but I'm
here for you, right?
Each person looking out for thebest of the other person saying
I know this is hard, I knowit's hard to hear, but I'm here
for you, right?
And just stating what we need.
(13:19):
Yes, I hear you.
I always tell my mom, tell thedads what you need.
They have no idea because wewomen are like you should know.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Some of us men are like yeah, you should know, and
it's not fair.
It's not fair generalized topeople.
I'm not a money reader, likeyou have to know.
So let's take a perfect example.
Let's take a perfect exampleand I'm going to use this
because I do a lot of advocacywork in law enforcement and
neurodiversity A police officerpulls you over.
(13:54):
You're a young woman with autism.
He comes up to the car and he'slooking at you and you're all
over the place, obviouslybecause now your anxiety has
heightened.
Now it's like a sensoryoverload, and he's immediately
thinking just off of perception.
He or she is like okay, wepossibly have someone that's on
drugs or intoxicated.
(14:15):
Where, though, you're a personthat is on the autism spectrum.
Now here's the thing If youdon't communicate that with the
officer and sometimes a lot ofpeople as autistics themselves
they're like well, I don't wantto give my diagnosis.
Well, when you don't give yourdiagnosis on who you are, you
don't advocate for yourself andyou do not hold the other party
(14:40):
accountable now of theinformation that you have given
them.
So it is important to say hey,just want to let you know,
officer, I'm on the autismspectrum, so please be patient
with me, bang.
You're not saying, hey, I'm onan autism spectrum.
I please be patient with me,bang.
You're not saying hey, I'm onthe autism spectrum, I live here
.
My blood type is this.
This is my social securitynumber.
You're not giving all thatinformation, you're just letting
(15:01):
the officer know at that timeon how he should handle the
situation.
You put the onus on him.
So that's communication, that'sletting them know.
We have to do that.
When it comes down to raisingthis child, to understanding the
diagnosis together, whetheryou're together or not, we have
to do that Even for doctors, torelease that information to
(15:24):
patients.
Get away with the jargon.
Hey, listen, I want to talk toyou, mom and dad.
Do you know anything aboutautism spectrum disorder?
No, let me talk to you aboutwhat exactly that is and why I'm
telling you this and now breakit down.
You know, once you just did,you just became their friend,
their ally.
Now you're educating theminstead of telling them hey,
this is what it is.
(15:44):
Good luck, you know.
So, yeah, you just got me onthe ring.
I was thinking about it.
I'm like, let me put my littletwo gems in here real quick.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I just got a really important line from what you
said.
That parents should teach theirchildren is like just say I
have autism and please bepatient.
That's it.
That's all you do, the childrencan say that to their friends at
school.
The children can say that tothe teachers so that they like
(16:12):
okay, come down here because youknow there's 25 kids in the
class and there's like all ofthis going on and this child may
be having sensory overload anddoesn't know how to handle it.
I bet you parents can tell yourteachers that too.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Right it's interesting because, in a
society.
We won't disclaim that.
But we'll disclaim our identity, our pronouns.
We'll disclaim that immediately.
But when it comes down toneurodiversity, we hold back.
And why is that?
That is a part of you.
So when you say, hey, I'm anautistic or I have autism,
(16:52):
you're letting me know who youare.
We are instantly thinking, ohwell, they're going to devalue
me as a person and that's nottrue.
So I'm trying to really reallywork within the black and brown
community and I get it.
We have been marginalized by somany things.
It's just like I don't want mychild to go through it.
(17:14):
We have been marginalized by somany things.
It's just like I don't want mychild to go through it.
But I'm telling you as a fatherof a 16 year old who's on a
cusp of understanding this worldwe're trying to.
I am trying to prevent my sonfrom being in prison or being
dead because of the lack ofpronunciation on who he is as a
(17:34):
person.
My name is Shane.
I am a young man, a black youngman, who happens to have autism
.
This is how I work.
Please be patient and kind.
Nothing wrong with it.
There's nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
That is so empowering , because it's his identity.
I mean, it's part of him.
It's not something that'sremoved, right, and it's nothing
to be ashamed of, like you said, definitely, and that's why
we're doing what we do.
It's like there is no, all ofthose barriers and all of those
labels.
It doesn't define your child.
(18:11):
Your child is your preciouschild.
It doesn't define your child.
We just need your child to beprotected and so if it means
that's what we say, that's whatwe say so that we can get the
best treatment.
And you're absolutely right,because now the onus is on the
other person, now they know,they can't claim that oh, you
were just disrupted.
Well, we told you.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, we told you, we gave you a disclaimer, we let
you know how we are, and thenyou didn't internalize that, you
didn't think about that, andnow you're coming back saying oh
well, you know you're trying toput all this on us, but it's no
, we gave you what we are.
We gave you that information inadvance for you to dissect that
, to unpack that, to say, okay,how am I going to address this
(18:55):
individual differently, notdifferently in a form of putting
them in a corner, but how am Igoing to make sure and we're
talking about education now as ateacher, so let's make sure
people are following us how am Igoing to educate this person
about this neurotypical life ina way that they will understand
how they stand in it, empowerthem to continue to stand in it
(19:21):
and to build and to move forward?
We're not equipping and I'mgoing to put this little tidbit
out there for all the teachersand the educational powers that
be we're not equipping thesystem, the teachers, enough to
understand neurodiversity.
We are basing our educationsystem on a old model from the
(19:41):
1800s.
If you look at the firstspecial needs school that was
actually established in theUnited States, that was in the
1800s.
Now, obviously, we have mended,we have added so many different
programs.
I'm not knocking down theeducational system, but I will
say this.
You can track me down theeducation system is not built
(20:04):
for neurodiversity.
There is no part in theeducational system that is built
for neurodiversity.
So what we like or I can speakas an autism parent is we need
to come together.
Autism parents, stop pointing afinger.
Let's come together and workwith these educational leaders,
these administrative staff, andbuild up the school district to
(20:27):
include our children for thegenerations to come.
Because, as of right now, ourchildren for the generations to
come.
Because, as of right now,there's no, there's no cure you
know progression of getting ridof autism, nor should there be.
That is a person that you'retalking about.
So we have to use properlanguage, language that is not
ableistic, language that's goingto empower autistics.
(20:47):
We are knowing that this willbe something where we will have
future generations of autisticindividuals.
So why are we not rebuilding theeducation system to make sure
that we are including thesepeople?
I don't understand that and Iwant to make sure I respect
people.
I respect educators, I respectthe administrative staff, I
(21:08):
respect the superintendents.
What I don't respect is thelack of building and connecting
in order to make somethinghappen that's going to enrich
not only now but later on downthe line.
I'm a, since I've been in thisspace, I have really been a man
of action.
I talk it, but I also, if youcame to me, a superintendent
(21:31):
called me off this interview andwas like hey, I've seen your
interview, I want to talk to youabout doing some stuff.
I'm rolling up my sleevesinstantly and saying let's get
to work, let's make it happen,let's do some things.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
No, no, what you said is true, because I mean, it's
the same thing in the medicalfield.
Oh, we all need to cometogether to continuously build
and not just stay where we usedto be and continuously learn.
As we are learning more andmore in research, we need to put
that into practice and makethat practical for the child.
(22:03):
Right Now, it's like what's therates?
One in 36 kids.
So you definitely have to dosome work to boost the school
system to be able to cater forthese kids, and I like what you
said teaching them about theneurotypical life where they are
right and they're notneurotypical, but that's the
(22:26):
world around them.
So how do we prepare them to bethe best version of themselves
in vastly neurotypical world?
So, yes, you're absolutelyright, lots of work to do.
Yes, we have to keep talkingabout this, for sure, and I like
that you were taking actionwhere possible.
And so, for all of the teachersand educators listening, please
(22:50):
reach out to Mr Owens.
He will be amazing to come toyour school and help you guys
with practical strategies tomove forward.
Well, it didn't work.
It didn't work for you.
Yes, and you can call me too.
Me and him can go together.
That's fine, but please callhim.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Let's get it done.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yes, for sure.
So what would you say to dadsabout how can they build up
their sons as they're growing up, and their daughters, their
kids, to understand who they areand to see themselves as able,
to see themselves as valuable?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
So it and I revert this to to religion, because you
know, in a Bible, in a text, ittells you to to die to oneself,
right.
So I had to die to who JamilOwens was in the world, to
understand, to become JamilOwens in the kingdom's light and
how everybody else will receiveme.
(23:48):
So I had to die to myself.
And I tell you I'm going togive you a story, because I
counsel a lot of autism fathers.
I'm always getting called.
That's what I love to do.
They can always call me and wecan kind of talk and unpack
things.
But this dad out of New York,he reached out to me and he's
like Jamel, it's raining overhere and my son will not get out
(24:13):
of the rain.
He's just standing outside inthe rain looking up and he's
playing and he's just in therain and I need him to come in
and I can't do it.
And I asked him and I said well, why aren't you out there in?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
the rain.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And he said because it's raining.
And I said this is what I wantyou to do.
I want you to go outside in therain, I don't care if you get
dirty, put on some clothes thatyou don't really care about.
Sit down in the rain, lay downin the rain.
But lay down in the rain andimmerse yourself into his world
(24:44):
for one moment.
Understand him.
That connection is not going tobe verbal, it's going to be
visual and it's going to bephysical, and these are the
things that are going to breakyou down in order to establish a
connection with your childdeeper than anything else.
So he did it.
I thought he wasn't going to doit, but he did it.
He called me back and he's likethat was amazing, like I saw
(25:05):
for one moment.
It wasn't about car payments,it wasn't about bills, it wasn't
about the stressors of theworld, this divorce I'm going
through.
It was really just about me andmy son and I understood what he
saw and I enjoyed it and Irejoiced in it.
So I tell that story forparents because we have a lot of
(25:27):
stressors, but it has to bethat one moment, or a couple
moments in life where youdisconnect from this world and
you enter in their world and yousit in it and you just observe
how they see the world and whenI tell you it'll give you an
instant recharge.
It will instantly recharge whoyou are as a person.
(25:49):
That's my advice Removeyourself from this world.
Change yourself Brand new meright, so we see that on
Instagram all the time I'mreintroducing myself.
Reintroduce yourself with anempathetic, compassionate
version of yourself.
The only way you're going to dothat is by taking yourself and
(26:10):
connecting with your childdirectly and just being in that
moment, and then you'll attackthis world and see it in a
different way.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So powerful, oh my goodness Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I've had one of those moments, too, in Puerto Rico
with my goodness.
Wow, I've had.
I had one of those moments, too, in Puerto Rico with my son,
and I can tell you I wrote aboutit in this book I co-authored,
called Superheroes on theSpectrum.
Me and 33 other authors are inthat book and I wrote about my
particular time with him and therest of the family in Puerto
Rico and how we just connectedme and him.
(26:45):
And you know what it was.
It was me holding them up inthe water and spinning around,
and for that moment, phillydidn't matter.
In that moment, nothing elsemattered but seeing him trust me
and connecting in a part of whohe is, because he's he's half
Hispanic, so connecting in hisculture, and seeing him relax
(27:07):
and be one with nature.
And that was the moment where Iwas like, oh, my God, like this
is, this is the recharge Ineeded.
So, yeah, I walk the walk, Italk the talk.
It's not just all fun and game.
I'm telling you guys, I'mletting you know.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
And that's true wealth.
That's part of the wealthyou're talking about Right,
because it's true wealth.
That's part of the wealthyou're talking about right,
because it's priceless.
So it sounds like we parentsneed to do better about being
intentional, about being presentwith our kids.
It doesn't take hours.
Let's put down our phones andactually look at these kids in
the eye.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
If you're a divorcee and you know you get your child
on the weekends, like I do.
You know I do this every time Ipick up Shane.
I ask him so tell me about yourtwo weeks that I haven't seen.
And he runs down everythingthat it is with two weeks and I
listen to him and I ask himquestions and that's that's the
rundown.
But then also, too, I createthat social story about what
(27:59):
we're doing for the weekend.
So I give him a structure ofwhat to actually anticipate for
a weekend, and now that's abuilding block to our weekend.
So now we started it off right.
But I also let you know toothat there are some times where
me and Shane are out in public.
If he's just riding around,sometimes he might just grab for
my hand to hold it and while asmen we'll sit there and be like
(28:22):
I'm not doing that.
No, that's not what you do.
That looks a little suspect,but is it really?
Or is it really a communicationthat your son is trying, or
your daughter is trying torelate to you?
Maybe they need you in thatpoint and they're having a
sensory overload for some reason.
Maybe it's that we got to takeaway these stigmas and that
pride.
So I hold his hand I don't care, and they're locked and
(28:45):
everything to let him know thatI'm here for him and I, I'm that
regulator.
If he needs me to be theregulator, I'm going to be the
regulator and when he gets donethen we'll unhinge hands and and
then we'll continue on withwhat that looks like as far as
our relationship.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Oh, my goodness, and I mean that goes for mom, that
goes for dad.
Yeah, you're so right.
All the stigmas that you can'thold hands Like really.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, like, okay, they're our kids, we gave birth
to them.
Okay, if you think so, well,he's a grown man, so what?
So what?
What happens when we get closeto death, unfortunately?
What do you want to do?
What's the first thing that youwant to do?
Do you want to hold anothergrown person's hand?
(29:30):
So the moment of thattransition is saying it's okay,
it's going to be okay.
You're giving them aconfirmation that everything is
going to be okay.
So why wouldn't I do that now?
Why wouldn't you do that now?
I don't care if he's 16.
I don't care if he's 16.
I don't care if he's 21.
If he wants to hold my hand inpublic, I'm going to hold his
hand Doesn't mean anything.
It just means that I killed mypride and my ego for my child.
(29:55):
That's what that means.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
And that is the definition of love.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
It is Yep, pure love.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Oh, my goodness, we could just go on and on.
This has been so amazing.
I know I know this is this is agreat conversation.
I think a lot of interviews areare kind of structured on on
the surface level stuff andthey're not really hitting the
deep points.
That is needed to be heard, anda lot of times, too, it has to
deal with the guests becausethey're not trying to be as
transparent as possible, andthat's okay.
Transparency comes in differentforms and different times in
(30:31):
people's lives.
I've had a rough life.
In order to keep my sanity andto to try to build and be a
better person, it is the bestinterest of me to actually be
open and be transparent and tospeak life into other people, or
I could, you know, end uppsychosis myself, and I don't
want to do that.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yes, I mean there is no way to heal unless you open
up you think about the wound,right, we open it up so that all
the poison can come out.
I mean there's no way to healour mind unless we let whatever
is in there out so that we cannow put new things in there,
right, and new experiences andall of that.
So you're absolutely right.
And what's your take on therapy?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Do it.
I'm in therapy right now,though I advise other men, and
sometimes women in family units.
I'm in therapy too, because Ihave a lot of past traumas that
I've worked through or I'mcurrently working through from
things that affected me longbefore.
Like I said, everybody has astory.
I have a crazy story.
I shouldn't be here right now,and while doing this helps me
(31:35):
also, too, I need to speak tosomebody, because I do know that
there are some other thingsthat I internalized that I don't
need to, and for everybodylistening right now.
You're not perfect.
You're not perfect, but I loveyou the way you are and you
should be heard and you shouldbe valued.
And the only way that you'regoing to be heard and valued is
if you get things off of yourchest, and sometimes that's not
(31:57):
coming off as cocky or vain.
Sometimes that needs to be inan intimate setting with you and
a provider.
But also remember this too isthat provider is not perfect as
well, too.
They're only limiting andgiving you advice from what they
personally know or what theyhave been educated on.
So as long as you know thattransaction and how to take that
(32:18):
transaction and value thattransaction, you will understand
.
You know it comes with acomplete level of competence
that will give you confidence inwho you are.
Start to build you for yourpassion, your purpose.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yes, thank you.
Yes, everybody should be intherapy Me too.
I absolutely think you're rightand I like that you said
they're also human and they'renot perfect either.
But yes, it's important to getthe things off your chest and
even for your children, tonormalize it, and that's how I
get my teenagers that I see togo to therapy.
(32:51):
I'm like, do I look crazy?
No, okay, I'm in therapy, so itwill help you too, and then
they're more likely to do it.
But yes, especially, I meanI've heard I'm not a man, but
I've heard that or I've seenthat men often struggle with the
thought of going to therapy.
But I'm so glad you said itbecause it's not about the ego.
(33:12):
It doesn't make you less of aman.
It actually enhances you andhelp heal and walk through the
things so that you can show upas the man, like you said, for
your family and for yourchildren.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
No problem, thank you , I appreciate it.
Shameless plug before we getoff.
So this shirt right here.
Autism 365, this is a actualspace in a library, started by a
librarian who has a personalconnection with the neurodiverse
community.
It's in Winfield, pennsylvania,which is like the city line
Avenue area.
So I want to give a shout out toMary and everybody there, her
(33:51):
staff and then my book.
My book is on Amazon.
Life is a puzzle guy.
Gave you a cheat sheet.
I have seven books.
I didn't mention that.
I even have a journal in therefor fathers acknowledgement and
affirmation.
So definitely a shameless plug.
I want to put that out there.
But also, too, I know that youlike to give a little tip for
for everyone out there.
So for none of you have heardme do a presentation or a talk,
(34:15):
I want to give you a piece of myfavorite part of a talk piece.
Right, it's a white picketfence.
In American culture we are toldto work to get the big house,
beautiful car, beautiful familythe white picket fence right.
So two ways I want you to lookat this while you're listening
to me is one, as your loved one,the autistic individual
(34:37):
themselves, their white picketfence is not going to look the
same as yours mom and dad.
So if you ever heard of the termfacilitated communicator, that
is when one person actuallysupposedly helps individual who
is on a autism spectrum or withintellectual disabilities
communicate using a CPAT, it'sbeen debunked.
It's been found that the personthe actual assistant, has been
(35:01):
the one that's communicatingtheir thoughts right.
So are you a facilitatedcommunicator in their life?
Their house might be aone-bedroom apartment with a
service dog or a service catworking at Wendy's, but they're
happy.
That's their white picket fence.
And then for you, parents, yourwhite picket fence is never
going to look white.
There's going to be panesmissing, there's going to be
(35:23):
scratches, there's going to bedirt, there's going to be a
colored paint.
It is not going to look white,but it's your picket fence.
And the best thing about picketfences is that every now and
then it can be taken down and itcan be built back up.
So I want to empower bothautistic individuals to continue
to build your white picketfence and know that you have a
(35:44):
support system and your familiesare looking for.
Build your white picket fenceand know that you have a support
system and your families arelooking for the best white
picket fence to fit who you areand parents.
I want you to understand thatyou are building your white
picket fence and it doesn't haveto look the same.
Allow it to have some painsmissing, allow it to have some
drawings, some scratches, butyou know what?
At the end of the day, that'syour property, that's your white
(36:05):
picket fence that you can beproud of.
So that's the tip that I'mleaving you with.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Wow, oh my goodness.
So please fathers listening.
Call Paula, mr Owen, and wherecan they find you?
Speaker 2 (36:21):
They can find me.
I'm on Instagram, facebook.
I need to get a little bitbetter on Facebook, but the
handles are the Awesome ShowT-H-E-A-U-S-O-M-E-S-H-O-W, and
then Awesomeness Incorporated,which is my nonprofit
organization, and that isA-U-S-O-M-E-N-E-S-S-I-N-C.
(36:41):
Both of those are on Facebookand Instagram.
Yeah you can find me.
You can find me there.
Send me a message.
Look at some of my content.
I'm on TikTok too.
I'm trying to be everywhere isjust too much.
I don't have that much time,but I also do a lot of talks.
I'm on LinkedIn as well, too,under Jamel Owens.
You can find me there as well,too.
(37:01):
But yeah, I appreciate a follow, suggestions, comments.
If you're an autisticindividual, always educate me,
because I'm learning.
I'm learning about you, I'mlearning about my son, I'm
learning about everybody to beable to give this information
out so Wonderful, that'sfantastic.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Thank you so much.
Please share this with as manypeople as need to hear this, in
your community, in your life, atwork, because we all can be
better every day.
We're all better every day byone question, and you can love a
kid every day better.
That's the definition of loveand that's the definition of
(37:39):
living life, because everythingelse will follow right.
So thank you so much forlistening, thank you so much for
coming on here.
I so appreciate it and untilthe next episode, everybody take
care.
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