October 1, 2025 • 53 mins
Episode 53: Hermeneutics & Why Christians Disagree Part 5Why do sincere, Bible-believing Christians often come to such different conclusions about Scripture? In this episode of Brains, Bibles, and Beyond!, we dive into the world of hermeneutics—the art and science of interpretation. Whether it’s theology, ethics, or church practice, how we read the Bible shapes everything. Join us as we explore the key principles behind biblical interpretation, the historical and cultural filters we often overlook, and how differing hermeneutical approaches lead to a variety of Christian beliefs. It's a thoughtful, honest conversation about unity, diversity, and the deep importance of how we read God's Word.www.brainsandbibles.comwww.thinklikechrist.org
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Brains,
Bibles and beyond. Beyond, beyond, beyond.
Well, we explore worldview apologetics.
I am Nate Day and this is Joel Willoughby.
It is I. And together we are going to
help you tackle some of theologies and life's tough
questions. So why don't you grab your
theological receptacle and let'sget started?
(00:32):
I like that horn you have there.Yeah, I got me a new cup.
It's pretty good. That's pretty handy.
All right, so Joel, let's let's start for the first segment.
Today's episode is going to be we're going to continue on with
our series on Hermeneutics and Why Christians Disagree, and
(00:54):
we're going to finish up Spoke 3and get on to Spoke 4.
But before we start on that, we are going to play our little
game that we like to call Stump the Theologian.
So we have been collecting questions since our last
recording time. And today's question What is
(01:16):
God's greatest character trait? OK, let me rearrange the
question just a moment. Maybe maybe a more familiar way
to ask that to be his greatest attribute, to be more technical.
So character trait might be a little misleading because when
(01:40):
we have a character trait, it can come and go.
Whereas an attribute's like who he is, like I have bone and I
have blood. It's who I am.
Take it away and it's not reallya Joel Willoughby anymore.
And so with that said, though, Iwould, I would personally say
mercy because I believe that if you were to count it up, mercy
(02:02):
is the, the attribute that God talks about the most about
himself. So when God refers to himself,
he loves to give mercy. He talks about all over.
I love to give mercy now with that was a lot there, you know,
because obviously if he gives, he gives mercy.
He's also a judge, you know, to give mercy.
(02:24):
He's also loving and you know, lots, lots of things are kind of
tied in there. You can't just have one
attribute separated from all other attributes.
They all tied together. But Yep, short answer, it'd say
mercy, which do a quick reminderfor the audience.
They don't get grace and mercy confused.
You, you don't deserve either one of them, but grace is the
(02:45):
good thing you get, whereas mercy means you you're owed
punishment and it is taken away.So OK, that's that's the big
idea there. All right.
Sounds good. That's a good question.
Though. Yeah, So I've never actually
heard mercy as the answer before.
I've heard love a lot and I've heard holiness a lot.
I would say Yep, Yep. And I don't know if you can
(03:07):
really even say 1 is more important than another because
they they all coexist equally asimportant, right?
Yes, yes, yes. That idea of divine simplicity
that we've talked about in otherplaces where God is his
attributes and so he can't get chopped up.
He is he. He is all at once.
(03:30):
And then, with that being case, can can one even be more and
more important than another? Not really.
I think if you did a deep dive on each one of them, I could
make a case that every one of them is the most important one.
Right, that's right. That's why I'm wondering.
So I like, I like where you wentthere with Mercy being the one
that's talked about the most. By God himself.
Yeah, yeah. So maybe that's the one that at
(03:52):
least applies to us the most, because that is God's revealed
word to us. It's at least what God takes the
most pleasure in, it would seem.Yeah, does it.
Seems to me I don't know personal opinion.
Does he just pleasure in himselfand all the attributes equally?
(04:13):
Yeah, which is what he talks about the most, though.
So it's like you think there's there's something there,
something's there. A lot of it has to do with the
message he's trying to communicate to mankind,
probably, but still. All right.
So anyway, it's a good question,something we're thinking about.
And I think from time to time mymind changes on this based on
yeah, on what I need the most. Well, the the arguments are
(04:36):
there's two attributes for, you know, God is this holy in love
and then with holy, that's the one where it's mentioned three
times, you know, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty
kind of thing. So there's big cases to be made
for both those, but I still likemy mercy answer.
So all right. Yeah.
So you guys be the judge. Did we stump the theologian or
(04:59):
did he have a satisfactory answer?
Let us know in the comments or send us some emails.
So all right, we are going to dig right into finishing up
spoke #3 where we left off here a couple months ago.
Yep. And so make sure you do watch
the previous episodes. That's important.
Yes, That way I minimize my review as well with that whole
(05:21):
thing. You know why?
Why do Christians disagree? That was really answered in the
first episode. It's because we interpret the
Bible differently. Hermeneutics.
And so now I have these. Is it 7 spokes?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure 7 spokes of Bible study.
And so the third one is kind of long.
So we didn't finish it. We're going to finish it this
(05:42):
episode. And then going to the 4th, which
could be really long, but we're going to for our purposes, we're
not going to give you abbreviate.
Them. It's all kind of abbreviated
anyways. There's so much to all of these
things that we say, you just can't spend the time to go
intricately through every exhaustive retail.
These are these are 30,000 foot view of each of these things.
(06:03):
But but all all theological studies that are that way,
right? Like you can dig deeper and
deeper and deeper and deeper andeverything so.
Oh yeah, always. Anyway, without any further ado,
let's. More ADO.
Let's let's let's wrap up Spoke 3 and finish up what we were
talking about last time. So spoke 3 is historical and
cultural context. So explaining that, you know,
(06:27):
it's not just words that are thecontext.
You know, if I look at one versemight not be a whole sentence,
you know, So I want to look at that paragraph or something.
It's in things like that. Yeah.
But this is the context, you know, the stuff that's
surrounding it as far as where are they at in history?
How how is it different knowing they're from this culture
(06:48):
thousands of years ago on the other side of the planet?
You know, that's actually super important.
And there's so many different cultures.
We've mentioned some of those things, so that kind of gets us
the running head start. So then here we go.
So some cultural differences. I just want to take a big
picture, maybe 50,000 feet up inthe air kind of view of this,
the Eastern and Western mindsets.
(07:10):
There's more to it than that. There's a lot more to a lot of
this, but just gives you an idea.
You have the collectivist or more like communal type cultures
for the East, the individualist.It's all about just me and you
know, the Western cultures. You have these three big
worldview generalizations that are out there.
(07:33):
The Westerns more the guilt and innocence that Eastern is more
of the honor and shame. There's another one that's in
different places, more fear and power.
So, but this is we're focusing on the Eastern stuff.
So the collectivist community type people with honor and shame
as top priorities. OK.
(07:54):
And we're focused on that because that was the culture
that the Bible was in, right? Yeah.
And it's so different for us, you know, like if I was in
India, perhaps growing up in India, there would be less to
learn in this area because I have a similar world view in
that sense, both. Eastern so.
So do I have to be a student of history and ancient cultures in
(08:17):
order to understand the Bible though I feel like the Bible
says that in the I mean, everybody just says, hey, you
know what? Just read the Bible.
Forget all these commentaries, what everybody says, and just
just read the Bible and it's played and obvious.
Just do it. Yeah, like so, So to that degree
it's true that just a plain reading of the Bible in your own
language, you'll figure out the gospel and the key points of how
(08:42):
to live, how to please God. That's for sure.
But there's definitely deeper dives that the Bible is always
giving it away for the common person to understand easily.
There's still some deep truths here and there like that, you
know, doesn't no matter what yousay, looking through like, you
know, Zechariah or the back halfof Daniel, you know, some
(09:02):
Ezekiel things, You know, those are complex topics and visions
and things for the most part. Yeah.
It's easy to read. The thing was those in those
times, they didn't have to studythe history and the culture,
they were living it, you know, so this the the study part more
comes to how distant we are fromit.
And you don't know what you don't know.
(09:23):
So if you study everything, eventually you'll figure out
what you don't know. Does this more or less apply to
probably more to some of the NewTestament interpretations of
some stuff where we're actually talking about how the in the
church age we are function as a church?
Does it apply more to that in some areas than, you know, some
(09:46):
of the the open to open to interpretation areas where if
you know the culture, you're like, oh, wow, that makes a lot
more sense versus just obviouslythe gospel is very clear in the
Bible. But there's a few things that
are like when you look around atall the different denominations,
different churches, there are certain things that everybody
argues about in every single church.
(10:08):
Is that where some of this stuffreally comes into play And you
know, you have the like a, you know, I don't know.
This is more clarity if you knowthat the history and culture.
Right, right. That mean there's there's some
things that seem like contradictions that are solved
when you understand history and culture.
There is a lot of it is bringingout the flavor of the text.
(10:31):
So you know, you can make soup by heating up water and throwing
in a chopped up tomato. That would be soup, right?
But there's also, there's also ways to add a whole lot more
ingredients and things. You're still getting soup, but
it's a whole lot better. And so some of that's what I'm
showing us to some things like that or there's there's whole
(10:54):
major points of a passage you'llmiss all together if you don't
understand the culture. So let's go through some of
these examples. OK.
Yeah, that's perfect. All right, so first one real
simple 1st Corinthians 619. We'll go to 1st Corinthians 619
and in this passage the ESV saysor do you not know that your
(11:16):
body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have
from God? You are not your own, for you
were bought with a price, so glorify God in your body.
OK, so actually I read into verse 20 as well, but just
looking at verse 19 mainly here.So when you when you were to if
you were to read that here, you're looking at it.
(11:37):
Do you have it in front of you? Actually the verse?
I don't, but you would you like me to get in front of me?
Do it. Do it.
Yeah, get in front of you. This will just kind of help us
with the point here. OK, so then if you get that in
front of you and I, I read into verse 20 as well because it
flows together. So if you wanted to look at that
one too, that's fine. And when you read this, I want
you to just to, to give me a very just surface, you know,
(12:01):
true, but surface level interpretation of the of the
verses there. I was the.
What was the reference again? 1st Corinthians 619 and then you
could add 20 if you want. It's Corinthians 6.
And don't don't think about you hard, you're on the spot.
I'm actually going for a very simple idea and so not really
(12:21):
focusing on. All right, First Corinthians 619
and 20. This is from the New King James
Version. OK, Yep, that's good.
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy
Spirit, who is in you, whom you have from God, and who and you
(12:41):
are not your own? For you were bought with a
price, at a price. Therefore glory for God in your
body and in your spirit, which are gods all right.
So who? So Paul's writing?
Yep. OK, so how?
How do I interpret this? I come across this verse.
(13:02):
Who? Who is this to?
What's it about? Well, it's to the Corinthian
church. OK.
Also pretty much to all Christians, right?
OK. We're about with the price,
right? The body's not our own.
Let me let me ask you. This all the thing I mean, I can
just read the verse back to you.Yeah, yeah.
So there's a specific point I'm looking for when you read this.
(13:23):
Yeah. And just just be honest,
whichever answer it is, do you, do you read the you and your as
singular or plural? When you when you read it, do
you understand as singular? Or plural.
I honestly read it as both. It's personally applied to me,
but it's also applied to the church as a whole.
(13:44):
That's how I that's how I read it.
But all right, so on a technicallevel though, is this singular
lural? Well, you can be both.
It can be. Can only be one at a time
though, yeah. Yeah, I, I don't know.
I I don't I can't read Greek. I think typically well and if
you have the old King James as the you and ye makes it really.
Easy, yeah. And all that.
(14:04):
So that part's really simple. So we have to look, though.
If we don't have that Old English, then we have to look it
up. I can look it up in the King
James. I can just tell you too, but so
in verses 19 and 20, the whole thing there, every single second
person personal pronoun, so you,your, all that, every one of
those is plural. I'm just talking to the church.
(14:24):
So the idea is like an Eastern, more Eastern worldview person,
they naturally assume it's plural.
All of us, OK. The more Western type worldview
person would usually naturally assume it's singular.
And that's how I've always understood it growing up.
Or do you not know? I know.
Well, I mean, I've who hasn't heard a message on this, as in
(14:48):
like, you need to stop, you know, sitting in different ways
because your body is a temple. Take care of yourself.
Make sure you exercise. Physically, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, this, this is the verse that's always used to don't get
tattoos and and make sure you exercise.
But that's not really what it's saying.
Well, not if not if it's not talking about me.
Right, right. So it's interesting, you know,
(15:11):
So I I read it as an American guy here and I'm like, OK, my
body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.
OK, and then so you know, I've been bought by God and so I must
be OK. So with my body, how do I
glorify God? That's what I'm thinking about.
But really it's or do you whole Corinthian church not know that
(15:33):
your body, that whole church body is a temple of the Holy
Spirit within you, you know, andso then whom you have from God,
it's a collective. You are not your own collective
and it's true that you can bringthese down to an individual
level. Which which makes sense then,
because they were a really dysfunctional church.
(15:54):
Yeah. So he's like, hey, you guys all
together, right? Are not right, are not acting as
you should and. It's all it's very much about
help each other out. Yeah.
Whereas, you know, a lot of times the Western mindset when
we read something, we're like, okay, am I good in this?
Area just the American mindset in general.
We're, we're very individualized.
Of course, we, you know, we likeour personal property, we like
(16:17):
our personal freedom. You know what we we, we will
join a group on our terms. You know that that's this is how
we are. Yeah, but more that we love the
rags to riches stories, Yeah, where the one person against all
odds fought through and became super successful.
Who doesn't like a hero? Yeah, and then and then keeps
all of himself where it's like, you know, the collectivist type
(16:40):
person is like, hey, our nation,our community of some kind has
achieved greatness and I get to be a part of that.
Wow. You know, that's a whole another
mindset. You know, it's that.
It's that, you know, yeah, team teamwork, mindset versus you're
not. And you look at all those
illustrations about the church being a, a building or a, a
(17:01):
body, the bride, things like that.
It's all about those many piecesbecoming a whole functioning
well together. So like they would automatically
assume this like, OK, maybe I'm doing OK.
But yeah, this is a serious problem within the body.
Whereas I think more so in American churches, we don't look
at, we just go, I guess I'm OK. Well, I, I feel like this still
(17:25):
has personal application to eachof us because we are part of the
body. It's just not necessarily what
we usually, it's not necessarilythe way we apply it, though.
It's not physical fitness, it's spiritual fitness, right?
And and for you to be the good hand or the good mouth or
whatever part of the body you are, you know it for the
(17:48):
betterment of the body of Christ.
Are you doing you know your part, I guess, to be a part of
that the correct and and honorable way and and godly way
and of. Course the physical stuff helps
too. Sure, because.
There's places for that in Scripture.
Yeah, and you are supposed to take care of your body.
That's what it's saying here. It's obviously your body is a
(18:08):
gift from God and and you know, you're supposed to take care of
anything that God gives you, youknow, as being a good steward
and all those things. But.
So yeah, in the context, even just starting verse 12, the
basic guy, the the big problems is mainly sexual immorality is
mentioned, not tattoos, you know, So it's like it's even
(18:30):
within the context spiritual issues, not not so much the
physical issues, but it does show how those two are
connected. And when you're physically doing
something, it's worse because you're physically involving
someone else, you know, So that that's the that's the worst part
of it. But the focus is definitely
spiritual. And the Holy of Holies was in
the temple was kind of the wholepoint that, you know, God is
(18:51):
within your myths, You know, when two or three are gathered
together there I am in the midstof you.
Same idea. OK, yeah.
Anyways, I don't want to spend too long on on each of these
points. So that's that's just a a good
idea. And so I think normally if you
were to assume it's plural, thenyou'll be right more often than
not reading Scripture. OK.
(19:13):
Yeah, much less is it individually actually singular.
Stop being selfish. But there is times where think
of the whole Bible. The whole Bible is written just
for you. Yeah, yeah.
But at the same time it was written for you.
Yeah, yeah. So we can apply things to our
own lives. But you know, that's the way as
we go through the Bible study process, we interpret first and
(19:34):
then apply being true to the interpretation.
So yeah, we can apply it to ourselves individually, but we
just have to be very careful in what order we're doing these
things in. Sure.
OK, so then. Makes sense so.
Here's so so as we move into like the honor and shame verse
thing with this whole deal, so the individualistic culture, the
innocence and guilt, that's us. So if if a if a crime.
(20:00):
So we're moving this even into the secular world here.
When a when a crime is not yet exposed, you've committed a
crime, but it's not yet exposed,guilt can destroy you from the
inside. OK, All right, now collectivist
culture on our shame, there's, you know, Speaking of
generalizations, once again, no,there's no remorse until the
(20:23):
evil is exposed in the group. And there's shame because it's
among the group. There's shame from the group,
whereas before that, that's not.And I'm going to show that
through the couple contexts here, a couple of Scripture
passages and and with generalizations.
This is why I like to say generalizations are always wrong
(20:45):
and usually helpful. So that's that's in a nutshell.
Always wrong and helpful. And usually helpful yeah.
So you know, another word for generalization can be
stereotype, right? It's like you can always say
somebody's no, that's not true. There's so and so is different.
Yeah, you gotta but it's like, but you get it though, like
(21:05):
there's a mostly this is true you.
Know there's a reason there are stereotypes.
So when I say like Eastern and Western, those are large swaths
of humanity. So I understand you can find
someone that doesn't fit the mold.
That's that doesn't mean it's still not a majority rule.
So. Well, it's like it's polite to
ourselves if you see a fat person when.
(21:26):
When do you ever see that? Well, in America, you see a fat
person. In the mirror for me.
You know you can. You can generally assume that
the person has a self-control problem.
It Yeah, generalization. Right now, there are other
reasons that some people are overweight.
Yeah, right. But, you know, let's be real,
(21:49):
right? Let's be real.
You deceive too much. It's it's generally the case.
I like to say I didn't get fed on accident, so I like to say.
Anyways. Right.
All right, let's move on. So Saul, this is kind of a cool
thing. First off, why did Saul's name
change to Paul? I think maybe we've talked about
this before, you know? Because God said, hey, you're
(22:10):
you got a new name. That actually did not happen a
lot of people. Just made it up.
A lot of people will say that when Saul converted he became
Paul, but that's not true. He was still called Saul after
converting. It wasn't until a very
particular certain something they starts going by the name
Paul. See, he always had both names.
(22:33):
Saul was his Jewish name and Paul was his Roman name because
he was a Roman citizen. How do you know this?
That's how it was done anyway. He was because he was born a
Roman citizen, which means that he was given a Roman name.
That's how it worked, pure. And so then when did he start
going by Paul, his Roman name? When he was apostle to the
Gentiles, when that was his mainministry?
(22:56):
He's going to the Gentiles. He started using his Gentile
name. That makes sense.
Yeah, doesn't it? Yeah, so interesting.
So that's another. That's another.
Is that still true today? For Roman citizenship?
Well, no. Like I, I've heard, and maybe
it's the, it's the opposite example, but I've heard that
when people convert to Judaism, they have to also then get a
(23:17):
Jewish name. So then they really have two
names. So they go by, you know, the
regular name and they go by the Jewish name when they're in
synagogue or or whatever. I don't know.
I don't think that's true acrossthe board.
I I've known I. Think that's probably just
certain sex OK, but but here I'mI'm starting to talk a little
bit out of my head here so you know OK didn't prepare for that
so. Maybe one of our, maybe one of
(23:38):
our listeners know. Yeah, I think that'd.
Be. I've heard that.
So I, I don't know, you know, yeah, how widespread it is, but.
Well, so if you want to turn your Bible again, we can go to
Philippians 3. 4 Back my microphone and sound loud.
All right, I'll be OK. What'd you say?
Philippians 3/4 I always. Like the book of Philippians.
(24:00):
So Philippians 3 four starts in the middle of a sentence, but
we're we're not going to start our passage until the 2nd
sentence. So I'll read it.
So we get get confused and then through verse 6.
So it'd be if anyone else thinkshe has, he has reason for
confidence in the flesh. I have more circumcised on the
(24:21):
eighth day of the people of Israel, the tribe of Benjamin, a
Hebrew of Hebrews, as to the lawof Pharisee.
As to Zeal a persecutor of the Church?
As to righteousness under the law, blameless.
Blameless, the dude kept the law.
Well, so you. Tell me until he until he, until
he actually read the law right. Doesn't he say, like, I was
(24:43):
doing pretty good till I got to the part about my about what it
covetousness? Isn't that what Paul said?
That that one really got him? So like Romans 6 or 7, he was
explaining the goodness of the law and how that doesn't make
the law evil. It just exposes what is evil.
And there's no righteousness in itself in the law.
It's just that it points to it, the need for righteousness, you
(25:06):
know. So that's sort of an idea.
He did struggle like Romans 7. You know, I keep doing the
things I don't want to do and I don't do the things that I do.
And he goes back and forth that just struggling with temptation
and whatnot. But what I want to point out
here is something kind of simplethat we probably read over a
lot. Sure.
So think about as to Zeal, a persecutor of the church so
(25:33):
passionately would bring people into prison.
They'd get beaten, they'd get killed, murdered.
And then he says as to righteousness under the law,
blameless. Yeah.
So. So what does blameless mean in
this context? Means he was doing the the
(25:54):
outward works. Florida State.
As to righteousness though, yeah, he's like.
Well, well, under the law, when you know, when he was still
following, believing that the law made you righteous, He was.
He was doing it all. Well, you know, it's like Jesus
was righteous because he was completely under the law.
(26:15):
He was righteous under the law. You know, the Pharisees tend to
add more things, right? But there's that whole issue
which will knock out another day.
Yeah, I mean, Paul, Paul Paul's perspection of himself was that,
hey, I did everything, man, follow all these things.
Everybody, everybody who knew meknew I did everything And, and
(26:38):
you know, I didn't make mistakes.
But that's where he, that's where he references, you know, I
thought I was doing really good until I realized that my heart
was the problem. My, my thoughts were evil.
I broke those parts of law, thatword, that word, the outward
living. He was really excelling at the,
the, the works of the flesh man.He he, he didn't, he didn't
(27:02):
screw up. But I think I think the issue.
But then he realized that he himself is just evil.
Yes, I think, I don't think at all.
I think some of that he understood before his conversion
though. Probably some things.
Well, we all understand it and that's why we eventually
convert, right? I don't think well so with with
(27:22):
this one though. We like to deny the truth
though. So he he is literally saying
that he is righteous. OK.
He he is saying that he, he usedto believe that.
I think he, no, he believes it now with with this whole thing
you look at when he's writing atPhilippians 3.
No, because he's not still persecuting the church he's
(27:42):
talking about. Like this is who this is.
Yeah. Hey, yeah.
You want it both in your flesh. This is what I was doing.
I was awesome. Yep, Yep.
But he's not still doing those things.
He knows better now. But that was his.
His current mindset was when I did do those things, I was
considered righteous and blameless.
Yeah. When?
When I did it righteous and blameless.
(28:03):
No, no. The physical action was.
There or anything so he. Truly believed it.
What I'm trying to point out is this, like in the Western
context, we wouldn't talk like that.
We wouldn't do that. The the reason this works is
because within his community, there was nobody saying you're
wrong. Now in America, we could have
(28:26):
people in our community saying we're wrong.
We go, who cares, you're wrong, OK, simple as that.
We're not bothered in a sense, just sure, whatever you're wrong
there. If you are, whatever community
you are within is paramount. And like what they think of you,
honor shame. What they think of you is is the
(28:47):
highest commodity of the day. Honor and shame, highest
commodity. And so you so with him, he's
saying that, hey, within the community I was in, there was
absolute righteousness and blamelessness.
So righteousness is like no sin doing good blameless means
there's nothing that's sticking to your reputation.
You have an idea. So both things are true.
(29:10):
And so even though that he wouldturn around today, today and and
say, yes, that was sinful of me to do it.
And he and he does see detox like that in other places as
sinful of me. But but in this context, he's
saying but there was not one person that lifted the finger
and said you're doing wrong, not.
One person, because outwardly hewasn't.
(29:31):
I mean, he was. He was following the rules.
Yeah. So then that it's, it's a whole
other thing for people to understand that, you know, a bit
of a shift here that as I don't feel shit, you know, so guilts
is an objective reality. Shame is a feeling, and so you
know, I have no guilt before God, but I'm still ashamed when
(29:52):
I sinned. Yeah, Yeah.
Sure. Things like that.
OK, gotcha. So I can still have shame, but
not I don't have guilt anymore, technically speaking.
And so we use those words interchangeably, but that's
that's not how they're actually meant to be used.
Yeah, in fact, we usually use them both in the same sentence.
Yeah, shame and guilt. My guilt and shame.
We always stay together because we're not really sure what the
(30:12):
technical difference is usually.So let's just get them both.
Well, we, we, we, we know there's a difference.
That's what we say in both, but.We're not sure exactly.
Yeah. So I you know, on the calculator
you you've used like the C and the CE to to you know I don't.
I hit them both. I hit them both like 3 or 4
times. Makes sure I got it.
At least five times, I think on both.
Of them I get, I get it cleared.OK, so here's some things that
(30:36):
kind of helps with shame culture.
OK, shame is good. Shame Ming is bad.
Gotcha. A sense of shame is good.
Having no shame is bad. That's shameless.
You're shameless. Yeah, you sin and don't feel bad
(30:56):
about it. You.
Should be ashamed of yourself. Ah, there's no, no shame.
So no shame is bad. Having shame is good.
Shaming is bad. A sense of shame is good.
So honor is this limited resource.
It's limited. You have to think of it this
way. There's, there's a certain exact
quantity, if you will, of, of honor within a certain culture.
(31:18):
So what would happen is like when when Jesus was asked a
question privately that showed him honor and a genuine
curiosity to learn. Yeah.
However, when a public was when when a question was asked
publicly, it was only to shame them.
(31:39):
So you have to, if you want morehonor, you have to shame someone
to limited supply. So I'm taking some of your
honor. So that, so that concept doesn't
play well with America either, because we could just make more.
I mean, that that's our mindset,right?
It's not, it's not this limited,you know, piece of the pie
thing. It's the well, it's the
(32:00):
capitalist mindset, right? Like we can just build more.
Yeah, you can have it. I can have it.
We can all have it. Yeah, and I, I think that we
just don't like honor and shame,of course, is a part of
everyone's culture. But as far as it being the
priority, right. So it's not for us at all
because there's tons of people that they don't care what shame
might be thrown in their face aslong as they can personally
(32:21):
become great. That's the most opposite world
view there is from the Eastern collective, you know, stuff.
Whereas, you know, I, I'm OK to be thrown into the mud.
Just let me be a gear in the machine and someone's like, I
don't care if I'm throwing the mud as long as I can be at the
top of the pyramid where everybody can see me and love
(32:41):
me, you know, admire me. So so that's just some ideas
there. So like John 3 Nicodemus comes
Jesus by night asked me a question.
He was genuinely searching, genuinely curious.
We know that the the normal Pharisees always publicly asked.
We wait till there's a crowd, then ask me a question because
they were being ashamed as you just grew an honor because he
(33:04):
taught things correctly. It shamed them, gave him honor.
So they they wanted that honor back.
So they had to go to the source.They have to shame him to get
their honor back. And it didn't work out, just
made it worse every time they did it.
It's kind of funny. So then it's.
Almost like he knew what they were thinking.
(33:24):
I have, I have another illustration, David and
Bathsheba. I'm going to hold off on that
one. OK, and I'll just go on to the
next thing. You can't get everything for
free. You know, you got to have me
over for a Bible study training.OK, so then that's so I'll
wrapping up with spoke three historical cultural context.
You know, what's your appetite for it?
(33:46):
Let's do spoke 4 literary structure, literary structure.
OK, so literary think literature, right?
OK, we all agree, you know, within our circles, the Bible is
inspired, preserved, you know, you got God made this thing.
God ensured content and accuracy.
(34:08):
And then people had their own writing style, personality,
experience. So, but when they wrote
scripture, you know, we don't wewhenever we write, we write with
a certain genre, a certain category of writing and there's
there's different ways you can structure a narrative or poem or
(34:29):
whatever it is. And so that actually becomes
very insightful. This gets deep.
I am not going to go into a lot of stuff.
I would if I had like a group infront of me because a lot of it
I use visuals and things and fora lot of the podcast, it's audio
only. It just wouldn't really work
out. But just anyways, not to get
stuck into too much that's maybetoo nerdy for some folks.
(34:49):
OK, so just think of it this way.
You, you have a different structure of the text.
Now, if we sit down and I guess you'd think old school like
write a letter, maybe I won't use that because there's some
people that would disconnect nowadays.
But if you write in a text, you write in the e-mail, if you
write a poem for a loved one, those are all very different
(35:14):
forms of writing, different structure of writing.
So we think of it that way. So the the Bible is 66 distinct
pieces of divinely inspired literature.
Yeah, each book was written witha certain genre, and there might
even be multiple genres within abook.
Sure. Which is interesting.
(35:36):
OK, so then. That that would be something
like Daniel, right? Daniel has, yeah.
You got some historical narrative, You have a letter,
you have, you have. Poetry.
All prophecies in prophecy, yeah.
So, yeah, so, so poetry, some people think, OK, that's that's
(35:57):
either prose or poetry. Prose is what's not poetry.
But then there's all these subdivided categories and then
they have subdivided categories.And what a lot of people don't
realize is how many different options there really are.
And then especially if you consider whole cultures around
the world, there's we don't all write in the same styles, you
know, So it gets really big. So is it it is important to
(36:20):
understand these things and you come to scripture because it can
be very insightful, even help you to interpret things
correctly. If I go to like a proverb, you
know, this whole statement, it'sit's a proverbial truth.
You know, the idea is, you know,like off the top of my head
here, I think it's Proverbs 22 six is the one that says train
(36:44):
of a child is he he should go. You will not depart from it.
There's a, there's a different ways to understand that, but the
idea is it's not saying that youcan reach a level of parenting
so that no matter how many kids go through your home, they will
100% be in God's service. You know, I mean, perfectly.
(37:06):
Yeah, yeah. That's that's not what it's
saying. And so, you know, so to
understand how a proverb works, how a proverb would, you know,
be true, it's just it doesn't have the same rigid standards.
I think that's back to like the the generalization thing.
Generally, if you train up your child correctly, there's a lot
(37:27):
better chance of them turning out OK.
Yeah. Even if they they go astray for
a little bit, they'll come back.Yeah, that that's generally how
it works. Well, and, and the proverb, I
mean the proverbs, they're basically an example of even if
you don't regard God at all and you are not a Christian, if you
read the book of Proverbs and dowhat it says, your life will be
(37:48):
better. It will be better.
Yep, absolutely. On a general concept, you know,
you work hard, you don't cheat people.
You don't. You wake up early and and
productive, guess what? You're going to have more money
than if you don't. Those are just truths.
Now, are there exceptions to every rule?
Yeah, Yeah, there is. But in general, you know, if
(38:12):
you're not a sluggard, guess what?
Your life will be more productive.
Even if you don't still don't have much, it's better than it
was if you didn't work. Yeah, right.
So that the truths of Proverbs are true are there absolute 100%
not every case right, because we've all known great Christian
(38:32):
families who raised their kids fantastic and the people just
ultimately each individual has to answer to God for their for
their choices. And there's other scripture
passages that balance all that out.
Yes, there are. But anyways, let's, let's keep
going here. So we have like narrative
history, law, gospel, there's a,there's a parable, there's
different metaphors, there's theepistle, which is just a letter,
(38:55):
things like that. Even with Hmong poetry, you have
a Psalm, you have parallelism, which is a certain, you know,
kind of poetic device. And then even tons of different
kinds of parallelism. There's prophecy and proverb.
We already mentioned things likethat.
We don't all interpret those thesame way.
So it's important to know what'swhat, you know, a proverb in the
law. Those are completely different
(39:16):
ways to interpret. So like with narrative, it can
be descriptive and not prescriptive.
So you have the patriarchs with multiple wives.
That's not to say that you should have multiple wives then
too. It's just simply describing
history, just saying this is what happened.
(39:37):
And that's a, you know, a narrative placed back in the
past, right? So historical narrative, you can
call that. But a narrative contains many
elements to observe. OK, There's a plot, character
setting, perspective, conflict resolution, dialogue, climax and
the theme, all these different elements.
And then it gets even more complicated than that, you know,
(39:58):
which is really neat. So some people that have studied
these things, when I, when I saythis stuff, they're like, yes,
yes, yes. You know, they're getting all
sort of excited, you know. But when you do understand this
and you read something as simpleas like David and Goliath, you
can get a whole lot more out of Scripture when you understand
how it's written with these certain elements and how it
actually works together and you get to see it and it's bigger
(40:21):
picture as well. Beautiful cool stuff with even
Dave and Goliath. It's usually not mentioned in
your typical study school setting.
Missing out. They're missing out really.
But in the narrative that can bepackaged as a novel, a short
story, a folk tale, myth, legendor historical account.
(40:41):
And there's there's like different elements for every one
of those things. So you you can actually know
which is which, or at least there can be some healthy
argument. Inspired narratives are true.
I I try to get away from saying story, say narrative.
Yeah, it's not that big of a deal, except it's just
programmed into our minds. You know it's.
(41:01):
Just a story. Story or a fairy tale.
Yeah, right. So I try to be careful.
Sometimes I still slip up, but usually people know what I mean.
But yeah, guide, God guided every single element, word
choice, everything, really, really neat stuff.
So we'll move on from that. Oh yeah, there's, that's really
cool too. OK, so here's something just to
(41:22):
because everywhere in scripture,everywhere parallelism, just to
show you how how far the rabbit trail can go with something.
OK. So you have poetry, all right,
which is like it's most of scripture is poetry.
And then one of the devices the Hebrews would use is
parallelism. So you would have these
couplets, they're 2 lines. You'll see it all over
(41:43):
Scripture, especially Proverbs and stuff, 2 lines that clearly
go together. So that's a couplet.
And so now parallelism involves repeating, contrasting, or
developing similar complementaryideas within these couplets.
Whoa. OK, so then there's various
types of parallelism that enhance the text rhythm,
(42:06):
emphasis and meaning different things.
And so I could go through all sorts of things, but I'll use
just one example, something that's more simple and Psalm 19
synonymous parallelism. So the heavens declare the glory
of God and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
So the heavens is the sky above declare is proclaims the glory
(42:28):
of God is his handiwork. So it actually teaches you that
what what is the glory of God creation and it goes through it
actually declares that there is a creator, the whole thing.
So just give an idea. But that's there's lots more
stuff. So then with literary structure,
it's also really nice to diagramthe sentences.
That's, that's a, you know, kindof a dirty word, you know, with
(42:51):
some people. Yeah, I remember 5th grade
grammar. That was you.
Ever diagram sentences. Oh my word, we did a Becca for
well to a fifth grade and I and I I diagrammed a lot to.
Like the subject, verb, direct objects, all that kind.
Of stuff and it was rough. So that's that's the best way to
do it, because then nothing can hide.
It really, it really was helpful.
(43:12):
Yeah, it's. Still, I can still see you.
Like when you say diagram, pictures of diagram sentences
pop up in my mind. And it's beautiful.
It's beautiful, but at least just walking off phrases in like
what? What is dependent on something
else, You know what I mean? Like the flow of thought that
gets really beautiful. And then there's lots of other
(43:33):
things. I'll just mention one more
inclusio and inclusio Latin word.
It basically means you have bookends to A to a passage.
And so like John 14, one through27, you know, do not let your
heart be troubled kind of a thing.
And there you have it in verse one, verse 27.
There's five things in between that that solve your heart
(43:55):
trouble, fear, and anxiety. One, all right, So what are the
the fire things and and John then that we're talking about
here and and your inclusio? Inclusio sounds sounds kind of
nice. It's almost inclusion, but it's
a technical term. So OK, basically, OK, so, so
(44:16):
John 14 one, let not your heartsbe troubled.
Then, you know, in verse. So that's like the beginning
part of verse one. Then the last part of verse 27
is let not your hearts be troubled.
You need to let them be afraid. So same idea when you see that
repetition, that's a signal for a lot of different types of
literary features, but this is one of them where there is no
(44:40):
other repetition going into the middle.
You know, that's the other things that do that kind of
stuff. This is just that one thing
repeated, the front and the backend.
And so then, you know, whatever's in the middle talks
to that one thing that's repeated.
So like I said, there are five things that collectively cure
(45:01):
the heart trouble. So in verse one, believe in God,
believe also in me. First things faith verses 2
through 4, Jesus goes prepare a room in the Father's house for
them. So hope or you say eschatology,
but that confident faith in the future.
So more of that not just faith like I'm believing him
(45:22):
presently, but I'm I'm looking forward to wonderful things to
come that that's the difference.The third thing, verses 13 to
14, prayer through Jesus Christ.So prayer, prayer is the next
thing. So I'm having trouble with fear,
stress, anxiety. Well, you know, center back on
(45:44):
Christ, faith in him. Look forward to what God
promises. You're not just stuck in these
trials and misery. There's good things coming.
God has it under control. Prayer, talk to God about it,
ask for his help. Yeah, other people would ask for
God's help on your behalf, you know.
And then so the last two things,verses 16 through 18, the
(46:04):
ministries of the Holy Spirit within the word of God or with
with the word of God. Sorry.
So the indwelling Holy Spirit, which at that time was just
being promised. Of course we have them now
believers today. So of course, relying on him to
direct you, guide you, and he wants to produce the fruit of
the Spirit, which would be like peace and joy and things.
(46:27):
So yeah, walk with him. What what not.
And then verses 21 through 26, Scripture and obedience to it
coupled with the Holy Spirit bringing it to mind.
So kind of a kind of a, you know, quick summary of a lot of
verses there with the idea of just Scripture being in the
diet. So walk with God, be in the
word, pray, believe in hope, youknow, really that's kind of the
(46:49):
big 5 things. This is really cool though, to
see that there's how many peoplestruggle with fear and anxiety,
you know, those sort of things. Yeah.
And I mean the sinful kinds, youknow, not just I have a concern
or, you know, but like a real, real sinful kinds.
That is the. Solution.
And anxiety is a natural emotion, right?
Anxiety itself is not necessarily a sin.
(47:12):
It's how you respond. It's how you respond to it or
why you have it. Yes, yeah, there's, there's
always questions to be asked with that.
You know, so having anxiety doesn't mean you're sinning.
How you respond to anxiety? Are you trusting God or
yourself? Are you, you know, why are you
(47:32):
anxious? Is it because you don't trust
God? But there's obviously there's
way more to it than that. There's there's lots and lots of
reasons for anxiety. Well, you know, David talks
about a lot of the Psalms. Yeah, David had lots of anxiety
from time to time. In real reason to have it.
Yes. And so, you know, it's having
anxiety is not necessarily a sin.
(47:52):
A lot of times we condemn peoplejust for having anxiety.
And then that's that's wrong. But but God does give us a
prescription for solving for solving anxiety in in a lot of
ways, obviously depends on the on the reasons.
There's other what the what the?Prescription is, but yeah, this
one specifically obviously healsit hits lots of stuff.
(48:14):
All right, so wrapping up this spoke, spoke #4 literary
differences. Just trying to how can this then
like where are the problems lie in the Bible interpretation when
it comes to different literature?
Is it where people say, oh, thisis poetic so I don't have to
(48:35):
take it literal or this is poetic so I'm taking it literal
when I shouldn't be? Is that kind of one of the
things like? Something like with the creation
and flood narratives. It's popular.
It's too. Fantastical, so I don't believe
it. Well, it's popular to say
they're myth. Myth being the technical
literary term. I I understand why they are
(48:57):
thinking that. I don't think it meets all the
requirements. It doesn't have to meet all the
requirements for myth. I don't think it has to be that.
I think they're actually, it's real historical narrative.
Now that's a huge paradigm shift.
Just, you know, that for sure alone, you know, even looking
at. Let's see, try to keep it more
(49:17):
simple. Yeah.
So like, you look at, you know, Proverbs, a lot of people don't
know how to deal with them because I want to believe it.
The Bible's true, but I've seen this not play out this way.
Yeah. So then now they have doubts.
They're not sure. So it's.
So you'll just say a proverb wasconvenient.
And when it doesn't seem to fit,it's just kind of like pretend I
(49:39):
never saw it. So it's not.
You're not dealing with Scripture.
Well, you're not doing it justice by any means.
There's other bigger things likewith, I didn't talk about it,
but inverted parallelism, which is like the Hebrew language part
or the chiastic structure, whichis the Greek language part, a
little bit different. And those are bigger structures
that really show you the centralized theme of an entire
(50:03):
passage. Could be, could be just a little
sentence that they do real quick.
But a lot of times there's a whole passages.
And so that gives you a lot of clarity where you'd think to
yourself, you might get caught up in the weeds a little bit,
but then you can look at the structure and go, oh, I see why
this is mentioned the way it is.It all supports this one.
Big thing, because the point is this.
Yeah. And OK, sure.
(50:25):
So if you if you get the, if youif you get the literary
structure wrong, you'll think ofit wrongly, right?
Right, right. OK.
Even the book of judges is something else completely
different called circular ring structure.
And that was a pretty advanced deal, so foreign to us, foreign
to most people in the world, butstill some people would write in
(50:45):
it. But it's a really it's
interesting thing. It would take a it'd take a bit
to explain. We were going to save it.
We'll save it maybe for another time to talk about that for
itself. But the the idea though, is that
a lot of people thought like thebook of judges was completely
sloppy. It wasn't made well, like
literally speaking, like as a piece of literature, it was just
(51:07):
not good. Garbled together doesn't make
sense until they realized it wasring structure and then they go
wow this is actually a masterpiece.
It's basically repeating the same very beautiful, the same
cycle over and over and over again.
Is that what you mean by ring structure?
It's, it's like this, you take, you look at a circle and the
(51:27):
whole book goes around the circle One Direction, like
around that little line is the major events.
And then you connect the stuff on the top to the bottom, the
stuff on the left to the right. And those are all parallel
things. So it all like just two
introductions and two conclusions to judges and
they're both parallel with each other.
(51:48):
And if it's on that ring the wayit does.
And so that all connects in waysthat our, our minds today
naturally don't work. And so, but they, but you get
used to it, you know, if that's your culture and stuff.
And that even with like the kiastic structure where you'll
say, you know, like I'll have something the very beginning and
the very ending, that is basically the same point.
(52:10):
And then my second point is the same as my second to last point,
my Third Point, the same as my third to last point.
And you might have like, you know, 7 pieces, the 7th 1's, the
one thing in the middle. That's the big point.
That's kind of the roughly out of here.
So it's like people would be able to just speak that way
because they're so used to it. Not just right that way, but
they would be able to speak thatway.
(52:31):
And that's just something undonetoday.
When I teach, teach things like that, it takes a long time.
I really need to go slow becausewe're so not used to thinking
these ways. We think it's, you know, it's
like impossible, I'll never get it.
But you do. It just takes time.
You'll get it. Like all things, it starts to
come. It's about bottom lines.
If you understand the literary structure of the passage you're
(52:59):
reading, it will help you interpret it properly.
Definitely. It's a big, it's a big deal.
And if you have disagreements onthe type of literary structure
it is, you will interpret it differently.
And in a lot of cases, it's literal versus not literal in,
in, in all those things, so. But there's actually very little
(53:21):
argument once you learn the stuff.
It's all very technically defined, sure.
So there's not too much argumentonce you get to that level.
Really nice. But that would require learning.
That would require learning, yeah.
So the minor caveat to the wholething, yeah.
All right, well, let's hopefullyyou guys found this beneficial
and we're going to wrap up spoke4.
(53:44):
So we finished three and we did all the four and we're going to
have 567 coming up and those arethose are going to come out too.
So hope you guys enjoyed, have agreat day and see you.
Hey everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Brains,
Bibles and beyond. Beyond, beyond, beyond.
Well, we explore worldview apologetics.
I am Nate Day and this is Joel Willoughby.
It is I. And together we are going to
help you tackle some of theologies and life's tough
questions. So why don't you grab your
theological receptacle and let'sget started?
(00:32):
I like that horn you have there.Yeah, I got me a new cup.
It's pretty good. That's pretty handy.
All right, so Joel, let's let's start for the first segment.
Today's episode is going to be we're going to continue on with
our series on Hermeneutics and Why Christians Disagree, and
(00:54):
we're going to finish up Spoke 3and get on to Spoke 4.
But before we start on that, we are going to play our little
game that we like to call Stump the Theologian.
So we have been collecting questions since our last
recording time. And today's question What is
(01:16):
God's greatest character trait? OK, let me rearrange the
question just a moment. Maybe maybe a more familiar way
to ask that to be his greatest attribute, to be more technical.
So character trait might be a little misleading because when
(01:40):
we have a character trait, it can come and go.
Whereas an attribute's like who he is, like I have bone and I
have blood. It's who I am.
Take it away and it's not reallya Joel Willoughby anymore.
And so with that said, though, Iwould, I would personally say
mercy because I believe that if you were to count it up, mercy
(02:02):
is the, the attribute that God talks about the most about
himself. So when God refers to himself,
he loves to give mercy. He talks about all over.
I love to give mercy now with that was a lot there, you know,
because obviously if he gives, he gives mercy.
He's also a judge, you know, to give mercy.
(02:24):
He's also loving and you know, lots, lots of things are kind of
tied in there. You can't just have one
attribute separated from all other attributes.
They all tied together. But Yep, short answer, it'd say
mercy, which do a quick reminderfor the audience.
They don't get grace and mercy confused.
You, you don't deserve either one of them, but grace is the
(02:45):
good thing you get, whereas mercy means you you're owed
punishment and it is taken away.So OK, that's that's the big
idea there. All right.
Sounds good. That's a good question.
Though. Yeah, So I've never actually
heard mercy as the answer before.
I've heard love a lot and I've heard holiness a lot.
I would say Yep, Yep. And I don't know if you can
(03:07):
really even say 1 is more important than another because
they they all coexist equally asimportant, right?
Yes, yes, yes. That idea of divine simplicity
that we've talked about in otherplaces where God is his
attributes and so he can't get chopped up.
He is he. He is all at once.
(03:30):
And then, with that being case, can can one even be more and
more important than another? Not really.
I think if you did a deep dive on each one of them, I could
make a case that every one of them is the most important one.
Right, that's right. That's why I'm wondering.
So I like, I like where you wentthere with Mercy being the one
that's talked about the most. By God himself.
Yeah, yeah. So maybe that's the one that at
(03:52):
least applies to us the most, because that is God's revealed
word to us. It's at least what God takes the
most pleasure in, it would seem.Yeah, does it.
Seems to me I don't know personal opinion.
Does he just pleasure in himselfand all the attributes equally?
(04:13):
Yeah, which is what he talks about the most, though.
So it's like you think there's there's something there,
something's there. A lot of it has to do with the
message he's trying to communicate to mankind,
probably, but still. All right.
So anyway, it's a good question,something we're thinking about.
And I think from time to time mymind changes on this based on
yeah, on what I need the most. Well, the the arguments are
(04:36):
there's two attributes for, you know, God is this holy in love
and then with holy, that's the one where it's mentioned three
times, you know, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty
kind of thing. So there's big cases to be made
for both those, but I still likemy mercy answer.
So all right. Yeah.
So you guys be the judge. Did we stump the theologian or
(04:59):
did he have a satisfactory answer?
Let us know in the comments or send us some emails.
So all right, we are going to dig right into finishing up
spoke #3 where we left off here a couple months ago.
Yep. And so make sure you do watch
the previous episodes. That's important.
Yes, That way I minimize my review as well with that whole
(05:21):
thing. You know why?
Why do Christians disagree? That was really answered in the
first episode. It's because we interpret the
Bible differently. Hermeneutics.
And so now I have these. Is it 7 spokes?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure 7 spokes of Bible study.
And so the third one is kind of long.
So we didn't finish it. We're going to finish it this
(05:42):
episode. And then going to the 4th, which
could be really long, but we're going to for our purposes, we're
not going to give you abbreviate.
Them. It's all kind of abbreviated
anyways. There's so much to all of these
things that we say, you just can't spend the time to go
intricately through every exhaustive retail.
These are these are 30,000 foot view of each of these things.
(06:03):
But but all all theological studies that are that way,
right? Like you can dig deeper and
deeper and deeper and deeper andeverything so.
Oh yeah, always. Anyway, without any further ado,
let's. More ADO.
Let's let's let's wrap up Spoke 3 and finish up what we were
talking about last time. So spoke 3 is historical and
cultural context. So explaining that, you know,
(06:27):
it's not just words that are thecontext.
You know, if I look at one versemight not be a whole sentence,
you know, So I want to look at that paragraph or something.
It's in things like that. Yeah.
But this is the context, you know, the stuff that's
surrounding it as far as where are they at in history?
How how is it different knowing they're from this culture
(06:48):
thousands of years ago on the other side of the planet?
You know, that's actually super important.
And there's so many different cultures.
We've mentioned some of those things, so that kind of gets us
the running head start. So then here we go.
So some cultural differences. I just want to take a big
picture, maybe 50,000 feet up inthe air kind of view of this,
the Eastern and Western mindsets.
(07:10):
There's more to it than that. There's a lot more to a lot of
this, but just gives you an idea.
You have the collectivist or more like communal type cultures
for the East, the individualist.It's all about just me and you
know, the Western cultures. You have these three big
worldview generalizations that are out there.
(07:33):
The Westerns more the guilt and innocence that Eastern is more
of the honor and shame. There's another one that's in
different places, more fear and power.
So, but this is we're focusing on the Eastern stuff.
So the collectivist community type people with honor and shame
as top priorities. OK.
(07:54):
And we're focused on that because that was the culture
that the Bible was in, right? Yeah.
And it's so different for us, you know, like if I was in
India, perhaps growing up in India, there would be less to
learn in this area because I have a similar world view in
that sense, both. Eastern so.
So do I have to be a student of history and ancient cultures in
(08:17):
order to understand the Bible though I feel like the Bible
says that in the I mean, everybody just says, hey, you
know what? Just read the Bible.
Forget all these commentaries, what everybody says, and just
just read the Bible and it's played and obvious.
Just do it. Yeah, like so, So to that degree
it's true that just a plain reading of the Bible in your own
language, you'll figure out the gospel and the key points of how
(08:42):
to live, how to please God. That's for sure.
But there's definitely deeper dives that the Bible is always
giving it away for the common person to understand easily.
There's still some deep truths here and there like that, you
know, doesn't no matter what yousay, looking through like, you
know, Zechariah or the back halfof Daniel, you know, some
(09:02):
Ezekiel things, You know, those are complex topics and visions
and things for the most part. Yeah.
It's easy to read. The thing was those in those
times, they didn't have to studythe history and the culture,
they were living it, you know, so this the the study part more
comes to how distant we are fromit.
And you don't know what you don't know.
(09:23):
So if you study everything, eventually you'll figure out
what you don't know. Does this more or less apply to
probably more to some of the NewTestament interpretations of
some stuff where we're actually talking about how the in the
church age we are function as a church?
Does it apply more to that in some areas than, you know, some
(09:46):
of the the open to open to interpretation areas where if
you know the culture, you're like, oh, wow, that makes a lot
more sense versus just obviouslythe gospel is very clear in the
Bible. But there's a few things that
are like when you look around atall the different denominations,
different churches, there are certain things that everybody
argues about in every single church.
(10:08):
Is that where some of this stuffreally comes into play And you
know, you have the like a, you know, I don't know.
This is more clarity if you knowthat the history and culture.
Right, right. That mean there's there's some
things that seem like contradictions that are solved
when you understand history and culture.
There is a lot of it is bringingout the flavor of the text.
(10:31):
So you know, you can make soup by heating up water and throwing
in a chopped up tomato. That would be soup, right?
But there's also, there's also ways to add a whole lot more
ingredients and things. You're still getting soup, but
it's a whole lot better. And so some of that's what I'm
showing us to some things like that or there's there's whole
(10:54):
major points of a passage you'llmiss all together if you don't
understand the culture. So let's go through some of
these examples. OK.
Yeah, that's perfect. All right, so first one real
simple 1st Corinthians 619. We'll go to 1st Corinthians 619
and in this passage the ESV saysor do you not know that your
(11:16):
body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have
from God? You are not your own, for you
were bought with a price, so glorify God in your body.
OK, so actually I read into verse 20 as well, but just
looking at verse 19 mainly here.So when you when you were to if
you were to read that here, you're looking at it.
(11:37):
Do you have it in front of you? Actually the verse?
I don't, but you would you like me to get in front of me?
Do it. Do it.
Yeah, get in front of you. This will just kind of help us
with the point here. OK, so then if you get that in
front of you and I, I read into verse 20 as well because it
flows together. So if you wanted to look at that
one too, that's fine. And when you read this, I want
you to just to, to give me a very just surface, you know,
(12:01):
true, but surface level interpretation of the of the
verses there. I was the.
What was the reference again? 1st Corinthians 619 and then you
could add 20 if you want. It's Corinthians 6.
And don't don't think about you hard, you're on the spot.
I'm actually going for a very simple idea and so not really
(12:21):
focusing on. All right, First Corinthians 619
and 20. This is from the New King James
Version. OK, Yep, that's good.
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy
Spirit, who is in you, whom you have from God, and who and you
(12:41):
are not your own? For you were bought with a
price, at a price. Therefore glory for God in your
body and in your spirit, which are gods all right.
So who? So Paul's writing?
Yep. OK, so how?
How do I interpret this? I come across this verse.
(13:02):
Who? Who is this to?
What's it about? Well, it's to the Corinthian
church. OK.
Also pretty much to all Christians, right?
OK. We're about with the price,
right? The body's not our own.
Let me let me ask you. This all the thing I mean, I can
just read the verse back to you.Yeah, yeah.
So there's a specific point I'm looking for when you read this.
(13:23):
Yeah. And just just be honest,
whichever answer it is, do you, do you read the you and your as
singular or plural? When you when you read it, do
you understand as singular? Or plural.
I honestly read it as both. It's personally applied to me,
but it's also applied to the church as a whole.
(13:44):
That's how I that's how I read it.
But all right, so on a technicallevel though, is this singular
lural? Well, you can be both.
It can be. Can only be one at a time
though, yeah. Yeah, I, I don't know.
I I don't I can't read Greek. I think typically well and if
you have the old King James as the you and ye makes it really.
Easy, yeah. And all that.
(14:04):
So that part's really simple. So we have to look, though.
If we don't have that Old English, then we have to look it
up. I can look it up in the King
James. I can just tell you too, but so
in verses 19 and 20, the whole thing there, every single second
person personal pronoun, so you,your, all that, every one of
those is plural. I'm just talking to the church.
(14:24):
So the idea is like an Eastern, more Eastern worldview person,
they naturally assume it's plural.
All of us, OK. The more Western type worldview
person would usually naturally assume it's singular.
And that's how I've always understood it growing up.
Or do you not know? I know.
Well, I mean, I've who hasn't heard a message on this, as in
(14:48):
like, you need to stop, you know, sitting in different ways
because your body is a temple. Take care of yourself.
Make sure you exercise. Physically, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, this, this is the verse that's always used to don't get
tattoos and and make sure you exercise.
But that's not really what it's saying.
Well, not if not if it's not talking about me.
Right, right. So it's interesting, you know,
(15:11):
So I I read it as an American guy here and I'm like, OK, my
body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.
OK, and then so you know, I've been bought by God and so I must
be OK. So with my body, how do I
glorify God? That's what I'm thinking about.
But really it's or do you whole Corinthian church not know that
(15:33):
your body, that whole church body is a temple of the Holy
Spirit within you, you know, andso then whom you have from God,
it's a collective. You are not your own collective
and it's true that you can bringthese down to an individual
level. Which which makes sense then,
because they were a really dysfunctional church.
(15:54):
Yeah. So he's like, hey, you guys all
together, right? Are not right, are not acting as
you should and. It's all it's very much about
help each other out. Yeah.
Whereas, you know, a lot of times the Western mindset when
we read something, we're like, okay, am I good in this?
Area just the American mindset in general.
We're, we're very individualized.
Of course, we, you know, we likeour personal property, we like
(16:17):
our personal freedom. You know what we we, we will
join a group on our terms. You know that that's this is how
we are. Yeah, but more that we love the
rags to riches stories, Yeah, where the one person against all
odds fought through and became super successful.
Who doesn't like a hero? Yeah, and then and then keeps
all of himself where it's like, you know, the collectivist type
(16:40):
person is like, hey, our nation,our community of some kind has
achieved greatness and I get to be a part of that.
Wow. You know, that's a whole another
mindset. You know, it's that.
It's that, you know, yeah, team teamwork, mindset versus you're
not. And you look at all those
illustrations about the church being a, a building or a, a
(17:01):
body, the bride, things like that.
It's all about those many piecesbecoming a whole functioning
well together. So like they would automatically
assume this like, OK, maybe I'm doing OK.
But yeah, this is a serious problem within the body.
Whereas I think more so in American churches, we don't look
at, we just go, I guess I'm OK. Well, I, I feel like this still
(17:25):
has personal application to eachof us because we are part of the
body. It's just not necessarily what
we usually, it's not necessarilythe way we apply it, though.
It's not physical fitness, it's spiritual fitness, right?
And and for you to be the good hand or the good mouth or
whatever part of the body you are, you know it for the
(17:48):
betterment of the body of Christ.
Are you doing you know your part, I guess, to be a part of
that the correct and and honorable way and and godly way
and of. Course the physical stuff helps
too. Sure, because.
There's places for that in Scripture.
Yeah, and you are supposed to take care of your body.
That's what it's saying here. It's obviously your body is a
(18:08):
gift from God and and you know, you're supposed to take care of
anything that God gives you, youknow, as being a good steward
and all those things. But.
So yeah, in the context, even just starting verse 12, the
basic guy, the the big problems is mainly sexual immorality is
mentioned, not tattoos, you know, So it's like it's even
(18:30):
within the context spiritual issues, not not so much the
physical issues, but it does show how those two are
connected. And when you're physically doing
something, it's worse because you're physically involving
someone else, you know, So that that's the that's the worst part
of it. But the focus is definitely
spiritual. And the Holy of Holies was in
the temple was kind of the wholepoint that, you know, God is
(18:51):
within your myths, You know, when two or three are gathered
together there I am in the midstof you.
Same idea. OK, yeah.
Anyways, I don't want to spend too long on on each of these
points. So that's that's just a a good
idea. And so I think normally if you
were to assume it's plural, thenyou'll be right more often than
not reading Scripture. OK.
(19:13):
Yeah, much less is it individually actually singular.
Stop being selfish. But there is times where think
of the whole Bible. The whole Bible is written just
for you. Yeah, yeah.
But at the same time it was written for you.
Yeah, yeah. So we can apply things to our
own lives. But you know, that's the way as
we go through the Bible study process, we interpret first and
(19:34):
then apply being true to the interpretation.
So yeah, we can apply it to ourselves individually, but we
just have to be very careful in what order we're doing these
things in. Sure.
OK, so then. Makes sense so.
Here's so so as we move into like the honor and shame verse
thing with this whole deal, so the individualistic culture, the
innocence and guilt, that's us. So if if a if a crime.
(20:00):
So we're moving this even into the secular world here.
When a when a crime is not yet exposed, you've committed a
crime, but it's not yet exposed,guilt can destroy you from the
inside. OK, All right, now collectivist
culture on our shame, there's, you know, Speaking of
generalizations, once again, no,there's no remorse until the
(20:23):
evil is exposed in the group. And there's shame because it's
among the group. There's shame from the group,
whereas before that, that's not.And I'm going to show that
through the couple contexts here, a couple of Scripture
passages and and with generalizations.
This is why I like to say generalizations are always wrong
(20:45):
and usually helpful. So that's that's in a nutshell.
Always wrong and helpful. And usually helpful yeah.
So you know, another word for generalization can be
stereotype, right? It's like you can always say
somebody's no, that's not true. There's so and so is different.
Yeah, you gotta but it's like, but you get it though, like
(21:05):
there's a mostly this is true you.
Know there's a reason there are stereotypes.
So when I say like Eastern and Western, those are large swaths
of humanity. So I understand you can find
someone that doesn't fit the mold.
That's that doesn't mean it's still not a majority rule.
So. Well, it's like it's polite to
ourselves if you see a fat person when.
(21:26):
When do you ever see that? Well, in America, you see a fat
person. In the mirror for me.
You know you can. You can generally assume that
the person has a self-control problem.
It Yeah, generalization. Right now, there are other
reasons that some people are overweight.
Yeah, right. But, you know, let's be real,
(21:49):
right? Let's be real.
You deceive too much. It's it's generally the case.
I like to say I didn't get fed on accident, so I like to say.
Anyways. Right.
All right, let's move on. So Saul, this is kind of a cool
thing. First off, why did Saul's name
change to Paul? I think maybe we've talked about
this before, you know? Because God said, hey, you're
(22:10):
you got a new name. That actually did not happen a
lot of people. Just made it up.
A lot of people will say that when Saul converted he became
Paul, but that's not true. He was still called Saul after
converting. It wasn't until a very
particular certain something they starts going by the name
Paul. See, he always had both names.
(22:33):
Saul was his Jewish name and Paul was his Roman name because
he was a Roman citizen. How do you know this?
That's how it was done anyway. He was because he was born a
Roman citizen, which means that he was given a Roman name.
That's how it worked, pure. And so then when did he start
going by Paul, his Roman name? When he was apostle to the
Gentiles, when that was his mainministry?
(22:56):
He's going to the Gentiles. He started using his Gentile
name. That makes sense.
Yeah, doesn't it? Yeah, so interesting.
So that's another. That's another.
Is that still true today? For Roman citizenship?
Well, no. Like I, I've heard, and maybe
it's the, it's the opposite example, but I've heard that
when people convert to Judaism, they have to also then get a
(23:17):
Jewish name. So then they really have two
names. So they go by, you know, the
regular name and they go by the Jewish name when they're in
synagogue or or whatever. I don't know.
I don't think that's true acrossthe board.
I I've known I. Think that's probably just
certain sex OK, but but here I'mI'm starting to talk a little
bit out of my head here so you know OK didn't prepare for that
so. Maybe one of our, maybe one of
(23:38):
our listeners know. Yeah, I think that'd.
Be. I've heard that.
So I, I don't know, you know, yeah, how widespread it is, but.
Well, so if you want to turn your Bible again, we can go to
Philippians 3. 4 Back my microphone and sound loud.
All right, I'll be OK. What'd you say?
Philippians 3/4 I always. Like the book of Philippians.
(24:00):
So Philippians 3 four starts in the middle of a sentence, but
we're we're not going to start our passage until the 2nd
sentence. So I'll read it.
So we get get confused and then through verse 6.
So it'd be if anyone else thinkshe has, he has reason for
confidence in the flesh. I have more circumcised on the
(24:21):
eighth day of the people of Israel, the tribe of Benjamin, a
Hebrew of Hebrews, as to the lawof Pharisee.
As to Zeal a persecutor of the Church?
As to righteousness under the law, blameless.
Blameless, the dude kept the law.
Well, so you. Tell me until he until he, until
he actually read the law right. Doesn't he say, like, I was
(24:43):
doing pretty good till I got to the part about my about what it
covetousness? Isn't that what Paul said?
That that one really got him? So like Romans 6 or 7, he was
explaining the goodness of the law and how that doesn't make
the law evil. It just exposes what is evil.
And there's no righteousness in itself in the law.
It's just that it points to it, the need for righteousness, you
(25:06):
know. So that's sort of an idea.
He did struggle like Romans 7. You know, I keep doing the
things I don't want to do and I don't do the things that I do.
And he goes back and forth that just struggling with temptation
and whatnot. But what I want to point out
here is something kind of simplethat we probably read over a
lot. Sure.
So think about as to Zeal, a persecutor of the church so
(25:33):
passionately would bring people into prison.
They'd get beaten, they'd get killed, murdered.
And then he says as to righteousness under the law,
blameless. Yeah.
So. So what does blameless mean in
this context? Means he was doing the the
(25:54):
outward works. Florida State.
As to righteousness though, yeah, he's like.
Well, well, under the law, when you know, when he was still
following, believing that the law made you righteous, He was.
He was doing it all. Well, you know, it's like Jesus
was righteous because he was completely under the law.
(26:15):
He was righteous under the law. You know, the Pharisees tend to
add more things, right? But there's that whole issue
which will knock out another day.
Yeah, I mean, Paul, Paul Paul's perspection of himself was that,
hey, I did everything, man, follow all these things.
Everybody, everybody who knew meknew I did everything And, and
(26:38):
you know, I didn't make mistakes.
But that's where he, that's where he references, you know, I
thought I was doing really good until I realized that my heart
was the problem. My, my thoughts were evil.
I broke those parts of law, thatword, that word, the outward
living. He was really excelling at the,
the, the works of the flesh man.He he, he didn't, he didn't
(27:02):
screw up. But I think I think the issue.
But then he realized that he himself is just evil.
Yes, I think, I don't think at all.
I think some of that he understood before his conversion
though. Probably some things.
Well, we all understand it and that's why we eventually
convert, right? I don't think well so with with
(27:22):
this one though. We like to deny the truth
though. So he he is literally saying
that he is righteous. OK.
He he is saying that he, he usedto believe that.
I think he, no, he believes it now with with this whole thing
you look at when he's writing atPhilippians 3.
No, because he's not still persecuting the church he's
(27:42):
talking about. Like this is who this is.
Yeah. Hey, yeah.
You want it both in your flesh. This is what I was doing.
I was awesome. Yep, Yep.
But he's not still doing those things.
He knows better now. But that was his.
His current mindset was when I did do those things, I was
considered righteous and blameless.
Yeah. When?
When I did it righteous and blameless.
(28:03):
No, no. The physical action was.
There or anything so he. Truly believed it.
What I'm trying to point out is this, like in the Western
context, we wouldn't talk like that.
We wouldn't do that. The the reason this works is
because within his community, there was nobody saying you're
wrong. Now in America, we could have
(28:26):
people in our community saying we're wrong.
We go, who cares, you're wrong, OK, simple as that.
We're not bothered in a sense, just sure, whatever you're wrong
there. If you are, whatever community
you are within is paramount. And like what they think of you,
honor shame. What they think of you is is the
(28:47):
highest commodity of the day. Honor and shame, highest
commodity. And so you so with him, he's
saying that, hey, within the community I was in, there was
absolute righteousness and blamelessness.
So righteousness is like no sin doing good blameless means
there's nothing that's sticking to your reputation.
You have an idea. So both things are true.
(29:10):
And so even though that he wouldturn around today, today and and
say, yes, that was sinful of me to do it.
And he and he does see detox like that in other places as
sinful of me. But but in this context, he's
saying but there was not one person that lifted the finger
and said you're doing wrong, not.
One person, because outwardly hewasn't.
(29:31):
I mean, he was. He was following the rules.
Yeah. So then that it's, it's a whole
other thing for people to understand that, you know, a bit
of a shift here that as I don't feel shit, you know, so guilts
is an objective reality. Shame is a feeling, and so you
know, I have no guilt before God, but I'm still ashamed when
(29:52):
I sinned. Yeah, Yeah.
Sure. Things like that.
OK, gotcha. So I can still have shame, but
not I don't have guilt anymore, technically speaking.
And so we use those words interchangeably, but that's
that's not how they're actually meant to be used.
Yeah, in fact, we usually use them both in the same sentence.
Yeah, shame and guilt. My guilt and shame.
We always stay together because we're not really sure what the
(30:12):
technical difference is usually.So let's just get them both.
Well, we, we, we, we know there's a difference.
That's what we say in both, but.We're not sure exactly.
Yeah. So I you know, on the calculator
you you've used like the C and the CE to to you know I don't.
I hit them both. I hit them both like 3 or 4
times. Makes sure I got it.
At least five times, I think on both.
Of them I get, I get it cleared.OK, so here's some things that
(30:36):
kind of helps with shame culture.
OK, shame is good. Shame Ming is bad.
Gotcha. A sense of shame is good.
Having no shame is bad. That's shameless.
You're shameless. Yeah, you sin and don't feel bad
(30:56):
about it. You.
Should be ashamed of yourself. Ah, there's no, no shame.
So no shame is bad. Having shame is good.
Shaming is bad. A sense of shame is good.
So honor is this limited resource.
It's limited. You have to think of it this
way. There's, there's a certain exact
quantity, if you will, of, of honor within a certain culture.
(31:18):
So what would happen is like when when Jesus was asked a
question privately that showed him honor and a genuine
curiosity to learn. Yeah.
However, when a public was when when a question was asked
publicly, it was only to shame them.
(31:39):
So you have to, if you want morehonor, you have to shame someone
to limited supply. So I'm taking some of your
honor. So that, so that concept doesn't
play well with America either, because we could just make more.
I mean, that that's our mindset,right?
It's not, it's not this limited,you know, piece of the pie
thing. It's the well, it's the
(32:00):
capitalist mindset, right? Like we can just build more.
Yeah, you can have it. I can have it.
We can all have it. Yeah, and I, I think that we
just don't like honor and shame,of course, is a part of
everyone's culture. But as far as it being the
priority, right. So it's not for us at all
because there's tons of people that they don't care what shame
might be thrown in their face aslong as they can personally
(32:21):
become great. That's the most opposite world
view there is from the Eastern collective, you know, stuff.
Whereas, you know, I, I'm OK to be thrown into the mud.
Just let me be a gear in the machine and someone's like, I
don't care if I'm throwing the mud as long as I can be at the
top of the pyramid where everybody can see me and love
(32:41):
me, you know, admire me. So so that's just some ideas
there. So like John 3 Nicodemus comes
Jesus by night asked me a question.
He was genuinely searching, genuinely curious.
We know that the the normal Pharisees always publicly asked.
We wait till there's a crowd, then ask me a question because
they were being ashamed as you just grew an honor because he
(33:04):
taught things correctly. It shamed them, gave him honor.
So they they wanted that honor back.
So they had to go to the source.They have to shame him to get
their honor back. And it didn't work out, just
made it worse every time they did it.
It's kind of funny. So then it's.
Almost like he knew what they were thinking.
(33:24):
I have, I have another illustration, David and
Bathsheba. I'm going to hold off on that
one. OK, and I'll just go on to the
next thing. You can't get everything for
free. You know, you got to have me
over for a Bible study training.OK, so then that's so I'll
wrapping up with spoke three historical cultural context.
You know, what's your appetite for it?
(33:46):
Let's do spoke 4 literary structure, literary structure.
OK, so literary think literature, right?
OK, we all agree, you know, within our circles, the Bible is
inspired, preserved, you know, you got God made this thing.
God ensured content and accuracy.
(34:08):
And then people had their own writing style, personality,
experience. So, but when they wrote
scripture, you know, we don't wewhenever we write, we write with
a certain genre, a certain category of writing and there's
there's different ways you can structure a narrative or poem or
(34:29):
whatever it is. And so that actually becomes
very insightful. This gets deep.
I am not going to go into a lot of stuff.
I would if I had like a group infront of me because a lot of it
I use visuals and things and fora lot of the podcast, it's audio
only. It just wouldn't really work
out. But just anyways, not to get
stuck into too much that's maybetoo nerdy for some folks.
(34:49):
OK, so just think of it this way.
You, you have a different structure of the text.
Now, if we sit down and I guess you'd think old school like
write a letter, maybe I won't use that because there's some
people that would disconnect nowadays.
But if you write in a text, you write in the e-mail, if you
write a poem for a loved one, those are all very different
(35:14):
forms of writing, different structure of writing.
So we think of it that way. So the the Bible is 66 distinct
pieces of divinely inspired literature.
Yeah, each book was written witha certain genre, and there might
even be multiple genres within abook.
Sure. Which is interesting.
(35:36):
OK, so then. That that would be something
like Daniel, right? Daniel has, yeah.
You got some historical narrative, You have a letter,
you have, you have. Poetry.
All prophecies in prophecy, yeah.
So, yeah, so, so poetry, some people think, OK, that's that's
(35:57):
either prose or poetry. Prose is what's not poetry.
But then there's all these subdivided categories and then
they have subdivided categories.And what a lot of people don't
realize is how many different options there really are.
And then especially if you consider whole cultures around
the world, there's we don't all write in the same styles, you
know, So it gets really big. So is it it is important to
(36:20):
understand these things and you come to scripture because it can
be very insightful, even help you to interpret things
correctly. If I go to like a proverb, you
know, this whole statement, it'sit's a proverbial truth.
You know, the idea is, you know,like off the top of my head
here, I think it's Proverbs 22 six is the one that says train
(36:44):
of a child is he he should go. You will not depart from it.
There's a, there's a different ways to understand that, but the
idea is it's not saying that youcan reach a level of parenting
so that no matter how many kids go through your home, they will
100% be in God's service. You know, I mean, perfectly.
(37:06):
Yeah, yeah. That's that's not what it's
saying. And so, you know, so to
understand how a proverb works, how a proverb would, you know,
be true, it's just it doesn't have the same rigid standards.
I think that's back to like the the generalization thing.
Generally, if you train up your child correctly, there's a lot
(37:27):
better chance of them turning out OK.
Yeah. Even if they they go astray for
a little bit, they'll come back.Yeah, that that's generally how
it works. Well, and, and the proverb, I
mean the proverbs, they're basically an example of even if
you don't regard God at all and you are not a Christian, if you
read the book of Proverbs and dowhat it says, your life will be
(37:48):
better. It will be better.
Yep, absolutely. On a general concept, you know,
you work hard, you don't cheat people.
You don't. You wake up early and and
productive, guess what? You're going to have more money
than if you don't. Those are just truths.
Now, are there exceptions to every rule?
Yeah, Yeah, there is. But in general, you know, if
(38:12):
you're not a sluggard, guess what?
Your life will be more productive.
Even if you don't still don't have much, it's better than it
was if you didn't work. Yeah, right.
So that the truths of Proverbs are true are there absolute 100%
not every case right, because we've all known great Christian
(38:32):
families who raised their kids fantastic and the people just
ultimately each individual has to answer to God for their for
their choices. And there's other scripture
passages that balance all that out.
Yes, there are. But anyways, let's, let's keep
going here. So we have like narrative
history, law, gospel, there's a,there's a parable, there's
different metaphors, there's theepistle, which is just a letter,
(38:55):
things like that. Even with Hmong poetry, you have
a Psalm, you have parallelism, which is a certain, you know,
kind of poetic device. And then even tons of different
kinds of parallelism. There's prophecy and proverb.
We already mentioned things likethat.
We don't all interpret those thesame way.
So it's important to know what'swhat, you know, a proverb in the
law. Those are completely different
(39:16):
ways to interpret. So like with narrative, it can
be descriptive and not prescriptive.
So you have the patriarchs with multiple wives.
That's not to say that you should have multiple wives then
too. It's just simply describing
history, just saying this is what happened.
(39:37):
And that's a, you know, a narrative placed back in the
past, right? So historical narrative, you can
call that. But a narrative contains many
elements to observe. OK, There's a plot, character
setting, perspective, conflict resolution, dialogue, climax and
the theme, all these different elements.
And then it gets even more complicated than that, you know,
(39:58):
which is really neat. So some people that have studied
these things, when I, when I saythis stuff, they're like, yes,
yes, yes. You know, they're getting all
sort of excited, you know. But when you do understand this
and you read something as simpleas like David and Goliath, you
can get a whole lot more out of Scripture when you understand
how it's written with these certain elements and how it
actually works together and you get to see it and it's bigger
(40:21):
picture as well. Beautiful cool stuff with even
Dave and Goliath. It's usually not mentioned in
your typical study school setting.
Missing out. They're missing out really.
But in the narrative that can bepackaged as a novel, a short
story, a folk tale, myth, legendor historical account.
(40:41):
And there's there's like different elements for every one
of those things. So you you can actually know
which is which, or at least there can be some healthy
argument. Inspired narratives are true.
I I try to get away from saying story, say narrative.
Yeah, it's not that big of a deal, except it's just
programmed into our minds. You know it's.
(41:01):
Just a story. Story or a fairy tale.
Yeah, right. So I try to be careful.
Sometimes I still slip up, but usually people know what I mean.
But yeah, guide, God guided every single element, word
choice, everything, really, really neat stuff.
So we'll move on from that. Oh yeah, there's, that's really
cool too. OK, so here's something just to
(41:22):
because everywhere in scripture,everywhere parallelism, just to
show you how how far the rabbit trail can go with something.
OK. So you have poetry, all right,
which is like it's most of scripture is poetry.
And then one of the devices the Hebrews would use is
parallelism. So you would have these
couplets, they're 2 lines. You'll see it all over
(41:43):
Scripture, especially Proverbs and stuff, 2 lines that clearly
go together. So that's a couplet.
And so now parallelism involves repeating, contrasting, or
developing similar complementaryideas within these couplets.
Whoa. OK, so then there's various
types of parallelism that enhance the text rhythm,
(42:06):
emphasis and meaning different things.
And so I could go through all sorts of things, but I'll use
just one example, something that's more simple and Psalm 19
synonymous parallelism. So the heavens declare the glory
of God and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
So the heavens is the sky above declare is proclaims the glory
(42:28):
of God is his handiwork. So it actually teaches you that
what what is the glory of God creation and it goes through it
actually declares that there is a creator, the whole thing.
So just give an idea. But that's there's lots more
stuff. So then with literary structure,
it's also really nice to diagramthe sentences.
That's, that's a, you know, kindof a dirty word, you know, with
(42:51):
some people. Yeah, I remember 5th grade
grammar. That was you.
Ever diagram sentences. Oh my word, we did a Becca for
well to a fifth grade and I and I I diagrammed a lot to.
Like the subject, verb, direct objects, all that kind.
Of stuff and it was rough. So that's that's the best way to
do it, because then nothing can hide.
It really, it really was helpful.
(43:12):
Yeah, it's. Still, I can still see you.
Like when you say diagram, pictures of diagram sentences
pop up in my mind. And it's beautiful.
It's beautiful, but at least just walking off phrases in like
what? What is dependent on something
else, You know what I mean? Like the flow of thought that
gets really beautiful. And then there's lots of other
(43:33):
things. I'll just mention one more
inclusio and inclusio Latin word.
It basically means you have bookends to A to a passage.
And so like John 14, one through27, you know, do not let your
heart be troubled kind of a thing.
And there you have it in verse one, verse 27.
There's five things in between that that solve your heart
(43:55):
trouble, fear, and anxiety. One, all right, So what are the
the fire things and and John then that we're talking about
here and and your inclusio? Inclusio sounds sounds kind of
nice. It's almost inclusion, but it's
a technical term. So OK, basically, OK, so, so
(44:16):
John 14 one, let not your heartsbe troubled.
Then, you know, in verse. So that's like the beginning
part of verse one. Then the last part of verse 27
is let not your hearts be troubled.
You need to let them be afraid. So same idea when you see that
repetition, that's a signal for a lot of different types of
literary features, but this is one of them where there is no
(44:40):
other repetition going into the middle.
You know, that's the other things that do that kind of
stuff. This is just that one thing
repeated, the front and the backend.
And so then, you know, whatever's in the middle talks
to that one thing that's repeated.
So like I said, there are five things that collectively cure
(45:01):
the heart trouble. So in verse one, believe in God,
believe also in me. First things faith verses 2
through 4, Jesus goes prepare a room in the Father's house for
them. So hope or you say eschatology,
but that confident faith in the future.
So more of that not just faith like I'm believing him
(45:22):
presently, but I'm I'm looking forward to wonderful things to
come that that's the difference.The third thing, verses 13 to
14, prayer through Jesus Christ.So prayer, prayer is the next
thing. So I'm having trouble with fear,
stress, anxiety. Well, you know, center back on
(45:44):
Christ, faith in him. Look forward to what God
promises. You're not just stuck in these
trials and misery. There's good things coming.
God has it under control. Prayer, talk to God about it,
ask for his help. Yeah, other people would ask for
God's help on your behalf, you know.
And then so the last two things,verses 16 through 18, the
(46:04):
ministries of the Holy Spirit within the word of God or with
with the word of God. Sorry.
So the indwelling Holy Spirit, which at that time was just
being promised. Of course we have them now
believers today. So of course, relying on him to
direct you, guide you, and he wants to produce the fruit of
the Spirit, which would be like peace and joy and things.
(46:27):
So yeah, walk with him. What what not.
And then verses 21 through 26, Scripture and obedience to it
coupled with the Holy Spirit bringing it to mind.
So kind of a kind of a, you know, quick summary of a lot of
verses there with the idea of just Scripture being in the
diet. So walk with God, be in the
word, pray, believe in hope, youknow, really that's kind of the
(46:49):
big 5 things. This is really cool though, to
see that there's how many peoplestruggle with fear and anxiety,
you know, those sort of things. Yeah.
And I mean the sinful kinds, youknow, not just I have a concern
or, you know, but like a real, real sinful kinds.
That is the. Solution.
And anxiety is a natural emotion, right?
Anxiety itself is not necessarily a sin.
(47:12):
It's how you respond. It's how you respond to it or
why you have it. Yes, yeah, there's, there's
always questions to be asked with that.
You know, so having anxiety doesn't mean you're sinning.
How you respond to anxiety? Are you trusting God or
yourself? Are you, you know, why are you
(47:32):
anxious? Is it because you don't trust
God? But there's obviously there's
way more to it than that. There's there's lots and lots of
reasons for anxiety. Well, you know, David talks
about a lot of the Psalms. Yeah, David had lots of anxiety
from time to time. In real reason to have it.
Yes. And so, you know, it's having
anxiety is not necessarily a sin.
(47:52):
A lot of times we condemn peoplejust for having anxiety.
And then that's that's wrong. But but God does give us a
prescription for solving for solving anxiety in in a lot of
ways, obviously depends on the on the reasons.
There's other what the what the?Prescription is, but yeah, this
one specifically obviously healsit hits lots of stuff.
(48:14):
All right, so wrapping up this spoke, spoke #4 literary
differences. Just trying to how can this then
like where are the problems lie in the Bible interpretation when
it comes to different literature?
Is it where people say, oh, thisis poetic so I don't have to
(48:35):
take it literal or this is poetic so I'm taking it literal
when I shouldn't be? Is that kind of one of the
things like? Something like with the creation
and flood narratives. It's popular.
It's too. Fantastical, so I don't believe
it. Well, it's popular to say
they're myth. Myth being the technical
literary term. I I understand why they are
(48:57):
thinking that. I don't think it meets all the
requirements. It doesn't have to meet all the
requirements for myth. I don't think it has to be that.
I think they're actually, it's real historical narrative.
Now that's a huge paradigm shift.
Just, you know, that for sure alone, you know, even looking
at. Let's see, try to keep it more
(49:17):
simple. Yeah.
So like, you look at, you know, Proverbs, a lot of people don't
know how to deal with them because I want to believe it.
The Bible's true, but I've seen this not play out this way.
Yeah. So then now they have doubts.
They're not sure. So it's.
So you'll just say a proverb wasconvenient.
And when it doesn't seem to fit,it's just kind of like pretend I
(49:39):
never saw it. So it's not.
You're not dealing with Scripture.
Well, you're not doing it justice by any means.
There's other bigger things likewith, I didn't talk about it,
but inverted parallelism, which is like the Hebrew language part
or the chiastic structure, whichis the Greek language part, a
little bit different. And those are bigger structures
that really show you the centralized theme of an entire
(50:03):
passage. Could be, could be just a little
sentence that they do real quick.
But a lot of times there's a whole passages.
And so that gives you a lot of clarity where you'd think to
yourself, you might get caught up in the weeds a little bit,
but then you can look at the structure and go, oh, I see why
this is mentioned the way it is.It all supports this one.
Big thing, because the point is this.
Yeah. And OK, sure.
(50:25):
So if you if you get the, if youif you get the literary
structure wrong, you'll think ofit wrongly, right?
Right, right. OK.
Even the book of judges is something else completely
different called circular ring structure.
And that was a pretty advanced deal, so foreign to us, foreign
to most people in the world, butstill some people would write in
(50:45):
it. But it's a really it's
interesting thing. It would take a it'd take a bit
to explain. We were going to save it.
We'll save it maybe for another time to talk about that for
itself. But the the idea though, is that
a lot of people thought like thebook of judges was completely
sloppy. It wasn't made well, like
literally speaking, like as a piece of literature, it was just
(51:07):
not good. Garbled together doesn't make
sense until they realized it wasring structure and then they go
wow this is actually a masterpiece.
It's basically repeating the same very beautiful, the same
cycle over and over and over again.
Is that what you mean by ring structure?
It's, it's like this, you take, you look at a circle and the
(51:27):
whole book goes around the circle One Direction, like
around that little line is the major events.
And then you connect the stuff on the top to the bottom, the
stuff on the left to the right. And those are all parallel
things. So it all like just two
introductions and two conclusions to judges and
they're both parallel with each other.
(51:48):
And if it's on that ring the wayit does.
And so that all connects in waysthat our, our minds today
naturally don't work. And so, but they, but you get
used to it, you know, if that's your culture and stuff.
And that even with like the kiastic structure where you'll
say, you know, like I'll have something the very beginning and
the very ending, that is basically the same point.
(52:10):
And then my second point is the same as my second to last point,
my Third Point, the same as my third to last point.
And you might have like, you know, 7 pieces, the 7th 1's, the
one thing in the middle. That's the big point.
That's kind of the roughly out of here.
So it's like people would be able to just speak that way
because they're so used to it. Not just right that way, but
they would be able to speak thatway.
(52:31):
And that's just something undonetoday.
When I teach, teach things like that, it takes a long time.
I really need to go slow becausewe're so not used to thinking
these ways. We think it's, you know, it's
like impossible, I'll never get it.
But you do. It just takes time.
You'll get it. Like all things, it starts to
come. It's about bottom lines.
If you understand the literary structure of the passage you're
(52:59):
reading, it will help you interpret it properly.
Definitely. It's a big, it's a big deal.
And if you have disagreements onthe type of literary structure
it is, you will interpret it differently.
And in a lot of cases, it's literal versus not literal in,
in, in all those things, so. But there's actually very little
(53:21):
argument once you learn the stuff.
It's all very technically defined, sure.
So there's not too much argumentonce you get to that level.
Really nice. But that would require learning.
That would require learning, yeah.
So the minor caveat to the wholething, yeah.
All right, well, let's hopefullyyou guys found this beneficial
and we're going to wrap up spoke4.
(53:44):
So we finished three and we did all the four and we're going to
have 567 coming up and those arethose are going to come out too.
So hope you guys enjoyed, have agreat day and see you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.