August 11, 2025 • 25 mins
Sleep struggles can feel like a nightly battle when parenting a child with ADHD. But what if the solution isn't another sticker chart or stricter routine—but understanding the unique way your child's brain processes sensory information?
Dr. Amy and Teri talk about how during a recent webinar on focus and attention for homeschooling families, one question dominated our Q&A session: "How do I help my ADHD child sleep?" This reflects a universal challenge as sleep disruption affects nearly every aspect of family life. The science explains why: children with ADHD typically experience altered sleep patterns, struggling to fall asleep, stay asleep, or sleeping for shorter durations. What many parents don't realize is that their own exhaustion and frustration at bedtime can actually make the problem worse through mirror neurons—special brain cells that make emotions contagious between people who care about each other.
The game-changer for many families starts with identifying whether your child is a sensory seeker or a sensory avoider. Sensory seekers—those kids who run laps around the house and dive into couch cushions—need additional stimulation to calm down. They benefit from weighted blankets, textured bedding, rhythmic sounds, or rocking motions. Meanwhile, sensory avoiders become overwhelmed by too much input and need darker rooms, minimal noise, and softer textures. Understanding this fundamental difference allows you to create a bedroom environment that serves as your child's sensory sanctuary.
Beyond environmental adjustments, be mindful that blue light from screens biologically blocks melatonin release, signaling to the brain that it's still daytime. This makes the no-screens-before-bed rule not arbitrary, but physiologically necessary. Quality sleep literally cleanses your child's brain, washing away toxins that accumulate during the day's neural activity. Without this cleansing process, cognitive function, emotional regulation, and learning capacity—areas where neurodivergent children already struggle—become even more challenging. By tailoring sleep routines to your child's unique sensory profile, you're not just improving nights, you're setting them up for better days and creating positive ripple effects throughout your family life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:00):
What are we going to talk about today?
That's a great question.
So we recently did a webinar.
We recently did a webinar withsome homeschooling families and
had some really awesomequestions.
It was a webinar on focus andattention and we thought that
you guys would want to hear someof those questions, because
(00:20):
it's not just an isolated issuewhen it comes to ADHD and focus.
I think we're going to do someof those most asked questions
from that webinar, if thatsounds good to you.
Sandy Zamalis (00:28):
Yeah, I think that's great because we spent
almost as much time on the Q&Aas I did on the presentation.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:38):
Yeah, because there were so many questions
about focus and attention andthe related topics that come
with focus and attention,particularly for neurodivergent
kids, and so, yeah, let's spendsome more time on those, okay,
so one of the questions thatcame up was how do I help my
ADHD child sleep, which was afascinating question, yeah it's
(01:01):
interesting.
I get that question almost everytime I do a presentation on
ADHD, and I actually have asection on sleep when I give
presentations on ADHD, becauseit is a big issue and we know
that kids with ADHD typicallyeither fall asleep later and
(01:21):
wake up earlier, or had a hardertime falling asleep or staying
asleep or all of the above right.
There seems to be sleepdisruption of some sort in ADHD,
and so it's a big topic and Iknow that at the end of the day,
you've been parenting sometimeswhat we would call a
(01:43):
challenging child all day andyou're exhausted and you're
ready to go to bed as a mom ordad, and to have your child also
not be ready to go to bed isfrustrating, and so I think that
we could start there with okay.
When parents are stressed andfrustrated and emotionally
dysregulated at bedtime,emotions are contagious.
(02:06):
We have these smart cells inour brains called mirror neurons
.
You know how when you yawn,somebody else will yawn.
That's mirror neurons in action, and mirror neurons are
strongest among people who careabout each other.
So the parent-childrelationship, those mirror
neurons, are going to be superstrong, and so emotions are
(02:29):
contagious.
So when we're emotionallydysregulated, when we're angry
or we're frustrated and we'reexhausted and that's showing we
can't regulate our own emotionsbecause our child won't go to
bed or stay in bed, then that'sgoing to dysregulate our child
and make the bedtime routinethat much more challenging.
So it starts with us.
(02:53):
We have to be willing torecognize A that bedtime takes a
little bit more effort, nomatter what when we have a
neurodivergent child, and so wejust have to build that into our
day as okay.
This is just like the breakfastroutine.
This is just like thehomeschool lessons that we might
be doing or driving to schoolor going to afterschool
activities.
This is just like dinner timeor you know that family time
(03:16):
after dinner.
Bedtime is yet another part ofour day and not the very end of
our day that we can just rushthrough, get in bed so that we
can then collapse.
So I think it starts with thislittle bit of a mindset shift as
parents that if we want bedtimeto be more successful, we have
to come into it with thiscommitment of saying I know this
(03:38):
is going to be a hard hour, butthis is my opportunity to
continue connecting with mychild and maybe the closest
connection I have with my childall day.
And so what can I do right tostrengthen the connection of my
child while at the same timegetting through the bedtime
routine, so that we all in theday emotionally regulated?
(04:00):
You had brought up a great pointduring the webinar and that you
said you have to know as aparent if your child is a
sensory seeker or sensoryavoider.
Will that affect the kind ofroutine that you put together to
help them have that successfulbedtime?
Sandy Zamalis (04:15):
Yeah, absolutely Neurodivergent kids, kids with
ADHD, struggle with sensoryissues, sensory processing
issues, and so the patterns thetwo main patterns that we see in
sensory processing are that wehave sensory seeking people or
sensory avoiding people.
(04:36):
So for children who are sensoryseekers these are the kids who
run laps around the house.
These are the kids who run lapsaround the house.
These are the kids wholiterally take a running dive
into the couch cushions.
They are seeking proprioceptiveinput from the environment, so
input that their bodies willreceive in some way, whether
(04:58):
that's through you know, touch,sight, feel, taste, sound.
They are seeking additionalinput because they have either
been under-stimulated throughoutthe day they haven't had an
opportunity maybe to move theirbodies enough throughout that
day or they simply just needmore sensory input.
And so those kids will have aharder time going to bed.
(05:22):
They will have a harder timecalming down if they haven't had
enough sensory input.
And those are the kids whowould benefit from a weighted
blanket being wrapped up in aburrito with pressure Like that.
Pressure therapy presses thebrakes on the sympathetic
nervous system response andhelps calm kids down.
(05:42):
These are kids who would reallybenefit from a swing in their
room or a rocking chair so thatduring reading time, at bedtime
they could be rocking orswinging, they would benefit
from a crunchy or chewy snack.
A crunchy or chewy snack,because that's stronger sensory
(06:04):
input.
So I know a lot of kids have abedtime snack, and so that's a
great way to give them some ofthat sensory input.
These are kids who want boldflavors of toothpaste right,
they want they're going tochoose watermelon toothpaste,
for example, and so if we canmeet their sensory needs in
those small ways, those ways arecumulative and so we want to
(06:29):
make sure that they've hadenough gross motor activities
that day.
Some outdoor time is criticalif the weather permits, but
again, those other ideas that Ijust gave for bedtime.
These are also kids who mightbenefit from a sound machine
that's rhythmic.
So a sound machine that's doingwaves, for example, that's a
(06:52):
rhythm that's predictable.
Now I will say this withcaution.
Some sound machines operate ata frequency that stimulates the
central nervous system, I'msorry, the sympathetic nervous
system.
Let me just say that sentenceagain.
Some sound machines operate ona frequency that can stimulate
our sympathetic nervous system,so we want to just be careful
(07:14):
and watch our child's responseto that.
But they might benefit fromsound machines, from music, some
quiet music in their room.
Dr. Amy Moore (07:21):
I was going to say that's what my son always
loved, even from when he wasteeny tiny.
Yeah.
Sandy Zamalis (07:27):
Lights.
They're the ones that might dowell with the solar system
stickers on the ceiling.
So there's something to look at, that sensory input, so anytime
.
And their rooms can be full ofthings right, because as they're
relaxing and getting ready forbed, they can be looking around
(07:48):
and seeing their stuffed toys,their Lego sets, from what
they've created earlier in theday right, they can have things
in their room.
Their blankets could havetextures like minky dots, right,
something to feel, and sothat's a great way to meet the
sensory needs of kids who aresensory seekers.
(08:11):
But then we also have kids whoare sensory avoiders, and those
are kids who can beoverstimulated throughout the
day, and when they'reoverstimulated throughout the
day, you might see emotiondysregulation at bedtime,
because they really need theopposite, and so these are kids
who would benefit from a darkerroom, a room that has bedding
(08:36):
that's very soft.
We want to cut the tags out oftheir pajamas because they're
very sensitive to texture, andso just the tag alone can be.
That itchiness of the tag canbe annoying enough to throw a
child into fight or flight.
These are kids that may or maynot benefit from pressure
(08:58):
therapy, so it would need to belighter.
So instead of a weightedblanket, maybe one of those
weighted stuffed animals?
Have you seen that?
They're amazing.
My youngest child still has aweighted stuffed animal in his
bed and he's in college.
So a weighted lap pad or aweighted stuffed animal might be
(09:20):
useful for sensory avoiders.
So they're the ones thatprobably don't want a sound
machine in their room.
They're probably ones thatdon't want lights, noises.
They're not going to want adiffuser with essential oils,
whereas a sensory seeker might,and their bedtime routine might
be a quiet story with you, butnot in a rocking chair, not in a
(09:44):
swing.
So we want to lower the sensoryinput.
Their toothpaste would be amilder flavor and they might be
overstimulated by a batteryoperated toothbrush.
Just the vibration alone of abatteryated toothbrush might be
too much for them, whereas yoursensory seekers that's a great
(10:06):
sensory input.
So having conversations withour kids around their rooms and
their room design and theirbedtime routines is super
important, especially for kidswho are ages six and up, who can
begin to articulate.
What is it that I'm feelingright now?
And hey, would you want to pickout your own toothpaste Watch
(10:29):
and see which kind they pick outfrom the store?
Do you want to pick out atoothbrush.
Watch and see, and then watchand see their response to using
those types of things.
Watch and see their response toclutter in their room, right.
So a sensory seeker probablywon't mind the clutter, but a
sensory avoider will needeverything to be put away or
(10:49):
things to be in their place.
Some kids want their sheets andblankets tucked in around them,
but sensory avoiders may not.
I know if my sheet is too tighton my feet then I can't fall
asleep.
I need it loose so that itisn't putting pressure on me or
they want like just a sheet,something really light, versus
something heavy like a comforter.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:11):
Yeah, so having so I would imagine this is
really hard as a parent, becausesome of that from a parent
battle would be orderliness.
What are your sensory needs atthe end of the day and can?
If you've got multiple childrenand they've got different
sensory needs, then how are yousetting up that routine so that
(11:32):
you're meeting each oneindividually?
What are some suggestions youhave for mom or dad to try to
figure that out?
Sandy Zamalis (11:49):
I think that we as parents have to manage our
own expectations and recognizethat our rooms should be our
safe haven, right Like we createour own bedrooms to match what
our sensory needs and desiresare right.
And so we need to recognizethat our children might not have
the same sensory needs that wehave, and that's okay, and to
recognize that one room may bethe only room in the house that
(12:12):
lowers the temperature onemotion dysregulation for our
kids.
That is their space, and so notonly should they be allowed to
help create that space anddesign that space, but that's a
really amazing gift that we cangive our child if we allow that
space to be something that meetstheir exact needs, not our
(12:35):
needs.
And if that means there's morein that room than we would like
in our room, that's okay,because it's not our room, it's
theirs, and so they still get tofollow house rules.
Things need to be picked uponce a week or they have to be
vacuumed or dusted once a week,whatever the house rules are.
But in terms of how much is inthere and how neat and orderly
(12:59):
it is, I think we canindividualize that and say, hey,
this is a gift that I can giveto my child and then recognize
our goal is for them to haverestorative sleep, and when they
get restorative sleep we getrestorative sleep.
So it's a gift to us too whenwe can do all that we can to
meet their needs.
What about supplements?
(13:19):
Yeah, so I just want to prefacemy answer by saying that I am a
PhD psychologist, so not an MDphysician, so I can't give
specific recommendations toparents on supplements.
What I can say is to talk toyour child's pediatrician about
(13:41):
supplements that might behelpful.
Once we've tried all of theseother things, so once we've met
their sensory needs and reallyworked on curating a bedtime
routine that matches theirsensory needs and it still seems
to not be enough then maybe askwhat melatonin, what the
(14:03):
recommendation for melatoninmight be.
Melatonin is not a drug.
It's a hormone that our brainreleases naturally, and so it's
just boosting that processbecause maybe that hasn't, maybe
melatonin hasn't naturally beenreleased at bedtime, and so
you're just helping it along.
(14:24):
One thing I will say aboutmelatonin is that blue light
from screens inhibits therelease of melatonin, so when
the brain senses blue light nearthe face, it thinks that it's
still daylight, so it doesn'trelease melatonin.
That signals the brain, whichthen signals the body it's time
(14:45):
to go to sleep.
So it's important that we don'thave screens on within an hour
before bedtime so that melatoninrelease happens.
So that isn't a rule that'sarbitrary.
That rule is physiological.
Dr. Amy Moore (15:04):
That's a really good way to put it, because that
was going to be.
My next question was what aboutscreens?
How do we get our kids,especially young kids?
It's a little bit easier tocontrol, older kids it's a
little bit harder.
But being able to explain it inthat biological way, yes, you
need to turn the blue house sothat your brain can tell itself
(15:27):
it's time to go to sleep.
How early is too early to beginhaving these conversations?
As you were talking, I wasthinking like, honestly, if I
think back now in hindsight, mybabies told me that, like my son
needed music, my son needed thelight on, my son needed lots of
extra pieces to his routine.
And then my daughter came alongand she wanted nothing to do
(15:47):
with any of us and I couldn'tget her to go to sleep.
And then one night I wasfrustrated and I literally just
put her in bed.
I was like I don't really knowwhat to do.
You're going to cry, but Ithink she was sensory avoidant.
It was making her too hot orwho knows what was happening.
But that stinker went to sleepin her crib.
(16:07):
And that is my two kids thesensory seeker versus the
sensory avoider.
So I think you have to justwatch, like you were saying.
That is my two kids, thesensory seeker versus the
sensory avoider.
Yeah, so I think you have tojust watch, like you were saying
.
Sandy Zamalis (16:17):
Yeah, and all behavior is communication.
Yeah, all behavior iscommunication.
And so you can see toddlerstell you through their behavior
that these pajamas are too itchy, or this tag is bothering me,
or this blanket is too heavy.
You can see, when they'velearned to walk and now they're
running laps around the houseand throwing themselves into the
(16:39):
couch cushions, that they areseeking sensory input.
And so we can watch for thoseearly signs and then begin to
experiment with theirenvironment and their bedtime
routine and then see what theresults are, even if they don't
have the language to articulate.
This is what I'm feeling, thisis what I'm seeking.
(17:00):
We can still go off of theirbehavior for clues for sure.
Dr. Amy Moore (17:05):
I feel like this is such a newer kind of thought
concept in the grand scheme ofthings, because I know it's not
something my parents thoughtabout before me.
Yeah, and I think maybe evenmodeling it as a parent and
figuring out what your bedtimeroutine really needs to be might
be a place to start to justeven think internally.
(17:27):
Like I think it would take alittle extra mental effort for
me to like actually think aboutthat.
I don't know that I ever haveWow, like I literally just live
my day and then crash.
Sandy Zamalis (17:39):
That's so funny.
I am a sensory avoid, okay.
So these things have been veryobvious to me my whole life, and
so then it was a little easierfor me to recognize them in my
own children and then began tomake sense of it when we started
looking at sleep issues withkids with ADHD for sure, because
(18:04):
I am ADHD, for those of you whodon't remember, yeah, For the
kids who really struggle to geta good night's sleep.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:13):
What would be some tips?
You've done all the things, youhave a schedule, you've thought
about their sensory needs, butthey're just still struggling.
What would you share with momsand dads?
Sandy Zamalis (18:23):
Yeah, I think when you've done all the things,
then it might be time to seekout a pediatric sleep specialist
or a psychologist whospecializes in a special kind of
cognitive behavioral therapycalled CBTI, which is cognitive
behavioral therapy dash insomniaand they may have some
(18:44):
additional strategies foridentifying what might be
causing the sleep problems.
Identifying what might becausing the sleep problems Many
times there might be fear andanxiety happening during the day
that is creating this fight orflight pattern in the brain, and
(19:07):
so it's very difficult to shutthat pattern off at night.
And for a child who isexperiencing anxiety maybe
school anxiety, health anxietythey will begin worrying about
the next day, the night before,and so that is certainly a
common sleep disruptor.
So a little bit of therapy canhelp identify if that's what's
(19:31):
happening.
And then some strategies forworking on the anxiety that
might be experiencing at bedtime.
One of the strategies that Iuse with adult clients who are
experiencing anxiety at bedtimeis to schedule their worry time,
and bedtime is not a great timeto worry because we do need to
(19:53):
sleep, and so I tell them hey,you need to pick an hour during
the day or early in the eveningwhen you can sit down with your
worries and try to reasonthrough some of the alternatives
and options, but that's harderto do with kids, especially
young kids.
Their prefrontal cortex isn'tfully developed, they can't
necessarily hold all of thealternatives in their mind at
(20:16):
the same time, especially ifthey have working memory
deficits, and so they may needsome additional strategies
specific to kids.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:25):
Do parents need to consider the medication side
effect factor if their child ison medication for ADHD and how
it's impacting sleep?
Sandy Zamalis (20:34):
if their child is on medication for ADHD and how
it's impacting sleep.
Sure, there are lots ofdifferent side effects that kids
experience.
Some central nervous systemstimulants actually make kids
drowsy, but some do cause sleepdisruption too.
So if the child is onmedication, that could certainly
be something that you look at.
Hey, how late in the day are wetaking medication?
(20:55):
And if we back that up, doesthat help?
So experimenting with thatmight be something to talk to
the pediatrician about as well.
Dr. Amy Moore (21:03):
When we need to think about this.
Maybe this would be a good lastpoint to end, on, other than
our own sanity as parents andthe sleeping piece, sleep is
really important for our kidsand learning, so why don't we
end there on this topic, aboutwhy we need to figure this piece
of the puzzle out for them?
Sandy Zamalis (21:22):
Yeah, the brain is just an amazing organ, isn't
it?
So sleep actually cleanses thebrain.
The way it works is that duringthe day we use up
neurotransmitters those are thechemical messengers that help
our neurons communicate and aswe use up those
neurotransmitters, they leavebehind toxins, and so sleep
(21:46):
actually helps cleanse thosetoxins that do build up during
the day, and it does that byreleasing cerebrospinal fluid
that washes the brain, and soit's like putting our brain
through a car wash, and so if wearen't getting restorative
sleep, then our brain can't gothrough that cleansing process
(22:07):
and those toxins begin to buildup.
And when they build up, thenour neurons can't communicate as
effectively and it can haveother neurological impacts with
long-term sleep problems.
But from day to day, one nightof poor sleep can impact
thinking and learning the nextday in the classroom, it can
(22:30):
impact dopamine receptorsensitivity, it can impact
emotion regulation ability.
Dr. Amy Moore (22:36):
So there are, there's a domino effect to not
getting enough sleep factor justbecomes all that much more
important because we don't wantto set them up for failure on
that learning cycle because it'salready harder for them.
Like when we can take all ofthis understanding and develop a
little bit of empathy for ourchild's struggle, then maybe
that can help regulate hismotions tomorrow so that his
(22:58):
dopamine receptors are moresensitive, so that his reward
(23:38):
pathway works better, so that hecan think and learn and focus
and remember better.
Sandy Zamalis (23:44):
That has a domino effect, too right.
It then impacts the wholeentire family when our child's
brain is working more optimallyfrom the benefit of the sleep
the night before.
So then when we come at bedtimewe can say, okay, what does my
child need in order to maximizehis sleep quality, which will
(24:06):
then increase our connection andincrease the quality of our
family time as well and don't beafraid to set boundaries.
Dr. Amy Moore (24:12):
I would think as a parent and make it a huge
priority for everyone thateveryone figures out what's best
for them in the sleepdepartment.
Sandy Zamalis (24:21):
Yeah, absolutely, and we've talked about Matt
saying that fair doesn't meaneveryone gets the same thing.
Fair means everyone gets whatthey need, and so everyone has
different needs at bedtime, aswe talked about, and so being
able to work through what allthose individual needs are is
part of that process of sayingI'm going to be fair because I'm
(24:46):
meeting the needs of myindividual children.
Dr. Amy Moore (24:50):
Yeah, I think we answered that question and
hopefully that was super helpfulto you.
It's a nuanced question.
You're an individual child.
You get to be the investigatorwho figure out what works best
for them.
Yeah, but hopefully you gotsome ideas and some tips and
tools to help you on thatprocess.
What are we going to talk about today?
That's a great question.
So we recently did a webinar.
We recently did a webinar withsome homeschooling families and
had some really awesomequestions.
It was a webinar on focus andattention and we thought that
you guys would want to hear someof those questions, because
(00:20):
it's not just an isolated issuewhen it comes to ADHD and focus.
I think we're going to do someof those most asked questions
from that webinar, if thatsounds good to you.
Sandy Zamalis (00:28):
Yeah, I think that's great because we spent
almost as much time on the Q&Aas I did on the presentation.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:38):
Yeah, because there were so many questions
about focus and attention andthe related topics that come
with focus and attention,particularly for neurodivergent
kids, and so, yeah, let's spendsome more time on those, okay,
so one of the questions thatcame up was how do I help my
ADHD child sleep, which was afascinating question, yeah it's
(01:01):
interesting.
I get that question almost everytime I do a presentation on
ADHD, and I actually have asection on sleep when I give
presentations on ADHD, becauseit is a big issue and we know
that kids with ADHD typicallyeither fall asleep later and
(01:21):
wake up earlier, or had a hardertime falling asleep or staying
asleep or all of the above right.
There seems to be sleepdisruption of some sort in ADHD,
and so it's a big topic and Iknow that at the end of the day,
you've been parenting sometimeswhat we would call a
(01:43):
challenging child all day andyou're exhausted and you're
ready to go to bed as a mom ordad, and to have your child also
not be ready to go to bed isfrustrating, and so I think that
we could start there with okay.
When parents are stressed andfrustrated and emotionally
dysregulated at bedtime,emotions are contagious.
(02:06):
We have these smart cells inour brains called mirror neurons
.
You know how when you yawn,somebody else will yawn.
That's mirror neurons in action, and mirror neurons are
strongest among people who careabout each other.
So the parent-childrelationship, those mirror
neurons, are going to be superstrong, and so emotions are
(02:29):
contagious.
So when we're emotionallydysregulated, when we're angry
or we're frustrated and we'reexhausted and that's showing we
can't regulate our own emotionsbecause our child won't go to
bed or stay in bed, then that'sgoing to dysregulate our child
and make the bedtime routinethat much more challenging.
So it starts with us.
(02:53):
We have to be willing torecognize A that bedtime takes a
little bit more effort, nomatter what when we have a
neurodivergent child, and so wejust have to build that into our
day as okay.
This is just like the breakfastroutine.
This is just like thehomeschool lessons that we might
be doing or driving to schoolor going to afterschool
activities.
This is just like dinner timeor you know that family time
(03:16):
after dinner.
Bedtime is yet another part ofour day and not the very end of
our day that we can just rushthrough, get in bed so that we
can then collapse.
So I think it starts with thislittle bit of a mindset shift as
parents that if we want bedtimeto be more successful, we have
to come into it with thiscommitment of saying I know this
(03:38):
is going to be a hard hour, butthis is my opportunity to
continue connecting with mychild and maybe the closest
connection I have with my childall day.
And so what can I do right tostrengthen the connection of my
child while at the same timegetting through the bedtime
routine, so that we all in theday emotionally regulated?
(04:00):
You had brought up a great pointduring the webinar and that you
said you have to know as aparent if your child is a
sensory seeker or sensoryavoider.
Will that affect the kind ofroutine that you put together to
help them have that successfulbedtime?
Sandy Zamalis (04:15):
Yeah, absolutely Neurodivergent kids, kids with
ADHD, struggle with sensoryissues, sensory processing
issues, and so the patterns thetwo main patterns that we see in
sensory processing are that wehave sensory seeking people or
sensory avoiding people.
(04:36):
So for children who are sensoryseekers these are the kids who
run laps around the house.
These are the kids who run lapsaround the house.
These are the kids wholiterally take a running dive
into the couch cushions.
They are seeking proprioceptiveinput from the environment, so
input that their bodies willreceive in some way, whether
(04:58):
that's through you know, touch,sight, feel, taste, sound.
They are seeking additionalinput because they have either
been under-stimulated throughoutthe day they haven't had an
opportunity maybe to move theirbodies enough throughout that
day or they simply just needmore sensory input.
And so those kids will have aharder time going to bed.
(05:22):
They will have a harder timecalming down if they haven't had
enough sensory input.
And those are the kids whowould benefit from a weighted
blanket being wrapped up in aburrito with pressure Like that.
Pressure therapy presses thebrakes on the sympathetic
nervous system response andhelps calm kids down.
(05:42):
These are kids who would reallybenefit from a swing in their
room or a rocking chair so thatduring reading time, at bedtime
they could be rocking orswinging, they would benefit
from a crunchy or chewy snack.
A crunchy or chewy snack,because that's stronger sensory
(06:04):
input.
So I know a lot of kids have abedtime snack, and so that's a
great way to give them some ofthat sensory input.
These are kids who want boldflavors of toothpaste right,
they want they're going tochoose watermelon toothpaste,
for example, and so if we canmeet their sensory needs in
those small ways, those ways arecumulative and so we want to
(06:29):
make sure that they've hadenough gross motor activities
that day.
Some outdoor time is criticalif the weather permits, but
again, those other ideas that Ijust gave for bedtime.
These are also kids who mightbenefit from a sound machine
that's rhythmic.
So a sound machine that's doingwaves, for example, that's a
(06:52):
rhythm that's predictable.
Now I will say this withcaution.
Some sound machines operate ata frequency that stimulates the
central nervous system, I'msorry, the sympathetic nervous
system.
Let me just say that sentenceagain.
Some sound machines operate ona frequency that can stimulate
our sympathetic nervous system,so we want to just be careful
(07:14):
and watch our child's responseto that.
But they might benefit fromsound machines, from music, some
quiet music in their room.
Dr. Amy Moore (07:21):
I was going to say that's what my son always
loved, even from when he wasteeny tiny.
Yeah.
Sandy Zamalis (07:27):
Lights.
They're the ones that might dowell with the solar system
stickers on the ceiling.
So there's something to look at, that sensory input, so anytime
.
And their rooms can be full ofthings right, because as they're
relaxing and getting ready forbed, they can be looking around
(07:48):
and seeing their stuffed toys,their Lego sets, from what
they've created earlier in theday right, they can have things
in their room.
Their blankets could havetextures like minky dots, right,
something to feel, and sothat's a great way to meet the
sensory needs of kids who aresensory seekers.
(08:11):
But then we also have kids whoare sensory avoiders, and those
are kids who can beoverstimulated throughout the
day, and when they'reoverstimulated throughout the
day, you might see emotiondysregulation at bedtime,
because they really need theopposite, and so these are kids
who would benefit from a darkerroom, a room that has bedding
(08:36):
that's very soft.
We want to cut the tags out oftheir pajamas because they're
very sensitive to texture, andso just the tag alone can be.
That itchiness of the tag canbe annoying enough to throw a
child into fight or flight.
These are kids that may or maynot benefit from pressure
(08:58):
therapy, so it would need to belighter.
So instead of a weightedblanket, maybe one of those
weighted stuffed animals?
Have you seen that?
They're amazing.
My youngest child still has aweighted stuffed animal in his
bed and he's in college.
So a weighted lap pad or aweighted stuffed animal might be
(09:20):
useful for sensory avoiders.
So they're the ones thatprobably don't want a sound
machine in their room.
They're probably ones thatdon't want lights, noises.
They're not going to want adiffuser with essential oils,
whereas a sensory seeker might,and their bedtime routine might
be a quiet story with you, butnot in a rocking chair, not in a
(09:44):
swing.
So we want to lower the sensoryinput.
Their toothpaste would be amilder flavor and they might be
overstimulated by a batteryoperated toothbrush.
Just the vibration alone of abatteryated toothbrush might be
too much for them, whereas yoursensory seekers that's a great
(10:06):
sensory input.
So having conversations withour kids around their rooms and
their room design and theirbedtime routines is super
important, especially for kidswho are ages six and up, who can
begin to articulate.
What is it that I'm feelingright now?
And hey, would you want to pickout your own toothpaste Watch
(10:29):
and see which kind they pick outfrom the store?
Do you want to pick out atoothbrush.
Watch and see, and then watchand see their response to using
those types of things.
Watch and see their response toclutter in their room, right.
So a sensory seeker probablywon't mind the clutter, but a
sensory avoider will needeverything to be put away or
(10:49):
things to be in their place.
Some kids want their sheets andblankets tucked in around them,
but sensory avoiders may not.
I know if my sheet is too tighton my feet then I can't fall
asleep.
I need it loose so that itisn't putting pressure on me or
they want like just a sheet,something really light, versus
something heavy like a comforter.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:11):
Yeah, so having so I would imagine this is
really hard as a parent, becausesome of that from a parent
battle would be orderliness.
What are your sensory needs atthe end of the day and can?
If you've got multiple childrenand they've got different
sensory needs, then how are yousetting up that routine so that
(11:32):
you're meeting each oneindividually?
What are some suggestions youhave for mom or dad to try to
figure that out?
Sandy Zamalis (11:49):
I think that we as parents have to manage our
own expectations and recognizethat our rooms should be our
safe haven, right Like we createour own bedrooms to match what
our sensory needs and desiresare right.
And so we need to recognizethat our children might not have
the same sensory needs that wehave, and that's okay, and to
recognize that one room may bethe only room in the house that
(12:12):
lowers the temperature onemotion dysregulation for our
kids.
That is their space, and so notonly should they be allowed to
help create that space anddesign that space, but that's a
really amazing gift that we cangive our child if we allow that
space to be something that meetstheir exact needs, not our
(12:35):
needs.
And if that means there's morein that room than we would like
in our room, that's okay,because it's not our room, it's
theirs, and so they still get tofollow house rules.
Things need to be picked uponce a week or they have to be
vacuumed or dusted once a week,whatever the house rules are.
But in terms of how much is inthere and how neat and orderly
(12:59):
it is, I think we canindividualize that and say, hey,
this is a gift that I can giveto my child and then recognize
our goal is for them to haverestorative sleep, and when they
get restorative sleep we getrestorative sleep.
So it's a gift to us too whenwe can do all that we can to
meet their needs.
What about supplements?
(13:19):
Yeah, so I just want to prefacemy answer by saying that I am a
PhD psychologist, so not an MDphysician, so I can't give
specific recommendations toparents on supplements.
What I can say is to talk toyour child's pediatrician about
(13:41):
supplements that might behelpful.
Once we've tried all of theseother things, so once we've met
their sensory needs and reallyworked on curating a bedtime
routine that matches theirsensory needs and it still seems
to not be enough then maybe askwhat melatonin, what the
(14:03):
recommendation for melatoninmight be.
Melatonin is not a drug.
It's a hormone that our brainreleases naturally, and so it's
just boosting that processbecause maybe that hasn't, maybe
melatonin hasn't naturally beenreleased at bedtime, and so
you're just helping it along.
(14:24):
One thing I will say aboutmelatonin is that blue light
from screens inhibits therelease of melatonin, so when
the brain senses blue light nearthe face, it thinks that it's
still daylight, so it doesn'trelease melatonin.
That signals the brain, whichthen signals the body it's time
(14:45):
to go to sleep.
So it's important that we don'thave screens on within an hour
before bedtime so that melatoninrelease happens.
So that isn't a rule that'sarbitrary.
That rule is physiological.
Dr. Amy Moore (15:04):
That's a really good way to put it, because that
was going to be.
My next question was what aboutscreens?
How do we get our kids,especially young kids?
It's a little bit easier tocontrol, older kids it's a
little bit harder.
But being able to explain it inthat biological way, yes, you
need to turn the blue house sothat your brain can tell itself
(15:27):
it's time to go to sleep.
How early is too early to beginhaving these conversations?
As you were talking, I wasthinking like, honestly, if I
think back now in hindsight, mybabies told me that, like my son
needed music, my son needed thelight on, my son needed lots of
extra pieces to his routine.
And then my daughter came alongand she wanted nothing to do
(15:47):
with any of us and I couldn'tget her to go to sleep.
And then one night I wasfrustrated and I literally just
put her in bed.
I was like I don't really knowwhat to do.
You're going to cry, but Ithink she was sensory avoidant.
It was making her too hot orwho knows what was happening.
But that stinker went to sleepin her crib.
(16:07):
And that is my two kids thesensory seeker versus the
sensory avoider.
So I think you have to justwatch, like you were saying.
That is my two kids, thesensory seeker versus the
sensory avoider.
Yeah, so I think you have tojust watch, like you were saying
.
Sandy Zamalis (16:17):
Yeah, and all behavior is communication.
Yeah, all behavior iscommunication.
And so you can see toddlerstell you through their behavior
that these pajamas are too itchy, or this tag is bothering me,
or this blanket is too heavy.
You can see, when they'velearned to walk and now they're
running laps around the houseand throwing themselves into the
(16:39):
couch cushions, that they areseeking sensory input.
And so we can watch for thoseearly signs and then begin to
experiment with theirenvironment and their bedtime
routine and then see what theresults are, even if they don't
have the language to articulate.
This is what I'm feeling, thisis what I'm seeking.
(17:00):
We can still go off of theirbehavior for clues for sure.
Dr. Amy Moore (17:05):
I feel like this is such a newer kind of thought
concept in the grand scheme ofthings, because I know it's not
something my parents thoughtabout before me.
Yeah, and I think maybe evenmodeling it as a parent and
figuring out what your bedtimeroutine really needs to be might
be a place to start to justeven think internally.
(17:27):
Like I think it would take alittle extra mental effort for
me to like actually think aboutthat.
I don't know that I ever haveWow, like I literally just live
my day and then crash.
Sandy Zamalis (17:39):
That's so funny.
I am a sensory avoid, okay.
So these things have been veryobvious to me my whole life, and
so then it was a little easierfor me to recognize them in my
own children and then began tomake sense of it when we started
looking at sleep issues withkids with ADHD for sure, because
(18:04):
I am ADHD, for those of you whodon't remember, yeah, For the
kids who really struggle to geta good night's sleep.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:13):
What would be some tips?
You've done all the things, youhave a schedule, you've thought
about their sensory needs, butthey're just still struggling.
What would you share with momsand dads?
Sandy Zamalis (18:23):
Yeah, I think when you've done all the things,
then it might be time to seekout a pediatric sleep specialist
or a psychologist whospecializes in a special kind of
cognitive behavioral therapycalled CBTI, which is cognitive
behavioral therapy dash insomniaand they may have some
(18:44):
additional strategies foridentifying what might be
causing the sleep problems.
Identifying what might becausing the sleep problems Many
times there might be fear andanxiety happening during the day
that is creating this fight orflight pattern in the brain, and
(19:07):
so it's very difficult to shutthat pattern off at night.
And for a child who isexperiencing anxiety maybe
school anxiety, health anxietythey will begin worrying about
the next day, the night before,and so that is certainly a
common sleep disruptor.
So a little bit of therapy canhelp identify if that's what's
(19:31):
happening.
And then some strategies forworking on the anxiety that
might be experiencing at bedtime.
One of the strategies that Iuse with adult clients who are
experiencing anxiety at bedtimeis to schedule their worry time,
and bedtime is not a great timeto worry because we do need to
(19:53):
sleep, and so I tell them hey,you need to pick an hour during
the day or early in the eveningwhen you can sit down with your
worries and try to reasonthrough some of the alternatives
and options, but that's harderto do with kids, especially
young kids.
Their prefrontal cortex isn'tfully developed, they can't
necessarily hold all of thealternatives in their mind at
(20:16):
the same time, especially ifthey have working memory
deficits, and so they may needsome additional strategies
specific to kids.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:25):
Do parents need to consider the medication side
effect factor if their child ison medication for ADHD and how
it's impacting sleep?
Sandy Zamalis (20:34):
if their child is on medication for ADHD and how
it's impacting sleep.
Sure, there are lots ofdifferent side effects that kids
experience.
Some central nervous systemstimulants actually make kids
drowsy, but some do cause sleepdisruption too.
So if the child is onmedication, that could certainly
be something that you look at.
Hey, how late in the day are wetaking medication?
(20:55):
And if we back that up, doesthat help?
So experimenting with thatmight be something to talk to
the pediatrician about as well.
Dr. Amy Moore (21:03):
When we need to think about this.
Maybe this would be a good lastpoint to end, on, other than
our own sanity as parents andthe sleeping piece, sleep is
really important for our kidsand learning, so why don't we
end there on this topic, aboutwhy we need to figure this piece
of the puzzle out for them?
Sandy Zamalis (21:22):
Yeah, the brain is just an amazing organ, isn't
it?
So sleep actually cleanses thebrain.
The way it works is that duringthe day we use up
neurotransmitters those are thechemical messengers that help
our neurons communicate and aswe use up those
neurotransmitters, they leavebehind toxins, and so sleep
(21:46):
actually helps cleanse thosetoxins that do build up during
the day, and it does that byreleasing cerebrospinal fluid
that washes the brain, and soit's like putting our brain
through a car wash, and so if wearen't getting restorative
sleep, then our brain can't gothrough that cleansing process
(22:07):
and those toxins begin to buildup.
And when they build up, thenour neurons can't communicate as
effectively and it can haveother neurological impacts with
long-term sleep problems.
But from day to day, one nightof poor sleep can impact
thinking and learning the nextday in the classroom, it can
(22:30):
impact dopamine receptorsensitivity, it can impact
emotion regulation ability.
Dr. Amy Moore (22:36):
So there are, there's a domino effect to not
getting enough sleep factor justbecomes all that much more
important because we don't wantto set them up for failure on
that learning cycle because it'salready harder for them.
Like when we can take all ofthis understanding and develop a
little bit of empathy for ourchild's struggle, then maybe
that can help regulate hismotions tomorrow so that his
(22:58):
dopamine receptors are moresensitive, so that his reward
(23:38):
pathway works better, so that hecan think and learn and focus
and remember better.
Sandy Zamalis (23:44):
That has a domino effect, too right.
It then impacts the wholeentire family when our child's
brain is working more optimallyfrom the benefit of the sleep
the night before.
So then when we come at bedtimewe can say, okay, what does my
child need in order to maximizehis sleep quality, which will
(24:06):
then increase our connection andincrease the quality of our
family time as well and don't beafraid to set boundaries.
Dr. Amy Moore (24:12):
I would think as a parent and make it a huge
priority for everyone thateveryone figures out what's best
for them in the sleepdepartment.
Sandy Zamalis (24:21):
Yeah, absolutely, and we've talked about Matt
saying that fair doesn't meaneveryone gets the same thing.
Fair means everyone gets whatthey need, and so everyone has
different needs at bedtime, aswe talked about, and so being
able to work through what allthose individual needs are is
part of that process of sayingI'm going to be fair because I'm
(24:46):
meeting the needs of myindividual children.
Dr. Amy Moore (24:50):
Yeah, I think we answered that question and
hopefully that was super helpfulto you.
It's a nuanced question.
You're an individual child.
You get to be the investigatorwho figure out what works best
for them.
Yeah, but hopefully you gotsome ideas and some tips and
tools to help you on thatprocess.
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