Smart but Struggling: Why School Accommodations Might Not be Working | Dr. Amy Moore & Sandy Zamalis
August 25, 2025 • 25 mins
The gap between being "smart" and "struggling" often confuses parents, especially when school accommodations don't seem to be working. Dr. Amy and Sandy dive into this critical topic, exploring how cognitive processing differs from academic learning and why this distinction matters for your child's future.
Your child's brain isn't just responsible for thinking and learning—it processes emotions too. When cognitive skills like working memory, processing speed, or reasoning are weak, it affects everything from test performance to social interactions. A child who struggles to process information efficiently experiences frustration that can manifest as behavioral problems, avoidance, or diminished self-confidence. As one parent shared, "My vibrant child began to wilt because he just felt like a failure."
The conversation tackles the tough question many parents ask: how far behind is too far behind? While temporary slowdowns in specific subjects aren't concerning, persistent patterns of struggle across multiple areas signal deeper cognitive issues that won't simply resolve with time. These struggles eventually impact self-esteem and emotional well-being, sometimes in ways children can't articulate until they face a significant challenge.
Most educational approaches rely heavily on accommodations rather than addressing underlying cognitive weaknesses. While extra time or modified assignments help in the moment, they don't prepare children for college or careers where such accommodations may be limited or unavailable. Building cognitive skills creates long-term solutions that allow children to function independently throughout life.
When parents disagree about interventions, the key is moving beyond arguments about the present to discuss fears about the future. What happens if we don't address these issues now? What are the long-term implications for independence and success? By strengthening cognitive skills, we don't change who children are—we free them from unnecessary struggles so their unique gifts can truly shine.
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Our sponsor's website: www.LearningRx.com
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Dr. Amy's brand new IG: @DrAmySaysGrace
Dr. Amy's website: www.AmyMoorePhD.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:03):
Hi Sandy.
Sandy Zamalis (00:04):
Hi Amy, how are you Good?
It's super fun to be in person,it is.
It feels like it's been agauntlet of a day to try to
figure all this out, but yes,it's been a lot of fun.
Yeah, it has.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:15):
And we've had so many conversations the last
couple of days about Wishing wehad mics and we're recording
them.
Sandy Zamalis (00:23):
Yes, oh my gosh, we and we're recording them.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:24):
Yes, oh my gosh, we should have been recording
him.
And we got really smart, likewhen we interview guests, we
start recording right away, sowe don't miss anything.
Sandy Zamalis (00:32):
That would have been a great interview
conversation and then, but thenwe went and messed it all up
today we did, but that's okay,cause I remember with one that I
think would have, I think ourlisteners would want to hear.
Okay, so when we were talkingyesterday, I was telling you
about a recent consultation Ihad with a family and we were
(00:52):
talking about their child andthey were behind in some subject
areas, and so we did somecognitive testing to figure out
what was going on.
The mom definitely had all theradars blaring and wanted to get
some help.
Dad was a little bit more inthe space of everything will be
fine, it'll work itself out.
(01:14):
And I always struggle when I'mhaving conversations, with that
dynamic of helping a family byreally advocating for the child
who's struggling but also for,in this case, a mom who was
really seeing a problem.
And so what I wanted to talkabout from a podcast perspective
(01:35):
is how do we help familiesunderstand the cognitive piece,
separate from the learning piece?
Because there's always thatnotion of my child is really
smart, they're going to be fine,but we don't really understand
the cognitive piece, and so whenyou try to address it, a lot of
times it just ends up in abehavior bucket or it ends up in
(01:58):
a space where sometimes, whenthere's that disconnect.
It's really hard to help afamily understand the knowledge
piece or learning piece, asidefrom how a child processes
information and how frustratingthat is when we're not
processing efficiently.
So that's what I wanted tospend some time talking about
(02:21):
today, because really in ourespecially in education and the
way we approach helping kids,it's all in accommodation and
compensation strategies.
We don't talk about skillbuilding and that skill building
can actually turn that around,so that child has less
frustration and is able toprocess easier, while still
(02:44):
being the brilliant human thatthey are with their own unique
brain and how their brainprocesses information.
So let's dig in on that alittle bit.
Let's talk about first what dowe do when there's a disconnect
between mom and dad and it cango either way and truly
understanding that differencebetween our, how our brain
(03:05):
learns information, how itprocesses, and then that unique
piece of just learning ingeneral, learning facts.
I'll let you take it from there.
Dr. Amy Moore (03:14):
So that's a super frustrating space to sit in,
right when you're working with afamily and parents aren't on
the same page, and so I want totalk about the second parts of
your question first and thencome back to okay, then, how can
we use this information to helpparents align their views?
(03:36):
Would that work?
Yeah, that sounds great.
Yeah.
So I think that we frequentlyforget that our brain is
responsible not just forthinking and learning, but for
feeling as well, and so it's allconnected, and emotions are
actually our relationship withlanguage, so it's the words that
(03:58):
we use to describe what it isthat we're feeling in our bodies
and in our minds.
That is all influenced by howwe process what we're feeling in
our bodies and in our minds.
That is all influenced by howwe process what we're feeling.
So let me give you an example.
When we are faced with asituation that feels like a
crisis, we need strong cognitiveskills in order to quickly
(04:24):
weigh all of the variables.
We need strong visualprocessing skills to take in
everything around us to say isthis truly a crisis or have I
misunderstood what I just saw?
Or we need strong auditoryprocessing skills to go.
Did I understand what I justthink?
I heard, and if we don't havestrong working memory, then we
(04:44):
can't hold all of thealternatives in our mind at the
same time in order to reasonthrough what's happening.
So that means we need strongreasoning skills as well, and we
need strong processing speed,because we need to be able to
weigh all of these alternativesand reason through them quickly
before we hit fight or flight.
(05:05):
And so we're using all of theseskills that we typically
associate with learning.
We use that in how we processemotions as well.
The strength or weakness in ourcognitive skills is going to
have this trickle down effect.
So not only does it impact ourability to think and learn and
(05:26):
remember and pay attention andreason, but it's also going to
impact how we are socially andemotionally.
So it has this broad reachingimpact, and not just on.
They'll eventually catch up inmath, if that makes sense.
Sandy Zamalis (05:42):
Yeah.
So that leads me to my nextquestion, and this comes up a
lot in my office, and especiallyfor homeschool families,
because we love homeschoolfamilies, we work with
homeschool families all the time, but there is a general I would
say pervasive approach of letthe child be where they're at,
(06:04):
go at their pace, and so it'shard to know.
Yes, I know my child is behind,but how far is too far behind.
So let's speak to that.
How do we address being behind?
Because we want both things wewant to be able to meet them
where they're at, but we alsowant to prepare them for the
future and make sure thateventually they're catching up.
Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Amy Moore (06:42):
So I think recognizing that a child is
behind in a certain season isdifferent than recognizing that
my child is behind in allsubjects, in all areas of
development and has been for along time.
And so if it's because, hey, mychild is really struggling with
this math concept, so it'staking us longer to get through
these three chapters, forexample, so my kid is falling
behind, that is not a red flagto me.
That's just saying, hey, thisis a difficult skill and some
(07:06):
skills take longer to learn thanothers.
And do we need to go back andrevisit some of the prior skills
that now have spiraled aroundto build on this new one,
because maybe they didn't catchthat prior one enough in order
to be able to master this one,right?
So, yes, we're two or threeweeks behind, that's okay.
(07:30):
It's when it becomes a patternacross multiple subjects where
we are not making progress.
My child is struggling not justin math, but in language arts
and in social studies and inscience and in social skill
development, right, like you'reseeing this pattern of struggle
(07:53):
in more than one area, thenthat's when you need to say what
do we need to do?
What are we missing?
What skills doesn't my childhave that they need in order to
catch up.
So I think we need to first say, hey, is this a pattern, and is
it happening in more than onearea, or is this just a season
(08:16):
in a subject?
You know, I think let'sdifferentiate that.
Okay, my guess is those parentswouldn't be sitting in one of
our offices if it was just ashort season in one subject.
So then we have to say, okay,how long has this behind pattern
(08:36):
been happening and what does itlook like?
So is it just that they haven'tbeen able to master these tasks
or is it beginning now toimpact their self-esteem?
Are they becoming emotionallydysregulated because their
frustration levels are so highthat now it is bleeding out into
(08:57):
our conversations as a family.
It is bleeding out into theirsocial development with their
siblings and their peers.
We begin to this permeate allareas of a child's life when
they don't have the skills tofunction on age level and I say
(09:18):
age level right, because gradescan be arbitrary, especially in
the homeschool world, and ifthey are significantly behind
for their age, we're going to beseeing that impacting other
areas and it's going to impacttheir confidence in things like
joining co-ops, trying newsports.
Sandy Zamalis (09:36):
A family told me recently just that their child
was not wanting to have toparticipate in their Sunday
school class because they do alot of interactive and read
aloud work and so they didn'twant the spotlight on them.
I had a consult years ago wherethe family didn't really realize
how much it was impacting theirchild until they had to make a
(09:59):
big life adjustment.
They had been homeschooling andthis particular child had some
struggles all along the way andbecause of life circumstances,
they were having to make adecision to put them into
private school.
And that's when everything cameapart, because that child was
able to then express no, I don'tfeel like I can accomplish that
(10:23):
and do it well, and so they hadsought us out for some help in
that regard, because I don'tthink kids often will share what
their struggles are in thatkind of depth.
So sometimes I think as aparent it's easy to think
everything's okay, that we'rejust accommodating and we're
compensating and things are fine, and we're not really getting
(10:44):
to the heart of how the childfeels about their ability to
process as compared to theirpeers.
Yeah, would you agree?
Dr. Amy Moore (10:52):
Yeah, absolutely, because it's shameful and
embarrassing and sometimes youdon't even know as a child how
to articulate what that feelingis.
Just that it doesn't feel right.
I know that when one of my kidswas in fourth, third or fourth
grade and was really strugglingwith dyslexia, came home one day
(11:15):
and said Mom, if they gavegrades for making friends, I
would get a D minus vibrantchild begin to wilt because he
just felt like a failure and itwas showing.
Kids compare themselves to oneanother and then if you're a
(11:38):
homeschool family you don'tnecessarily see that comparison
but your child will still feellike a failure if they aren't
capable of performing ormastering a lesson.
They're going to see yourfrustration at thinking maybe
this is the wrong curriculum ormaybe I don't have the correct
instructional skills.
But when we've changedcurriculum last year and this
(12:01):
year and the next year, we'velearned new instructional
strategies and the struggle isstill there, then it's probably
in the brain, it's not in thebooks and we talk about that all
the time.
Right that when we can identifythe root cause of that struggle
, then we can see not only thestruggle in learning and
(12:23):
thinking change, but the wholeworld opens up.
At that point.
Sandy Zamalis (12:27):
So let's talk about that.
Let's talk about the long game.
Accommodations are great,compensation strategies are
great.
They're helpful, but I thinkthey're more short term and
immediate.
They're like what we need to doto survive this thing that
we're working on right now, buteventually we have to build the
skill that we need so thatlong-term, I don't need that
accommodation or compensation.
(12:48):
So, from your perspective, whatdo you see as that long-term
building strategy?
Dr. Amy Moore (12:55):
Yeah.
So let's use extra time for anassignment or a test as a very
common accommodation, especiallyfor kids with ADHD.
And so what that does is itsays OK, my brain cannot stay on
task.
Therefore, my mom or my teacherhave given me extra time to
(13:20):
accomplish this task.
That decreases motivation toget that task done, because the
ADHD brain says oh, I have twomore weeks, there's no reason
for me to work on this now.
The ADHD brain works best underpressure, so they're going to
wait right until the day beforeit's due and we'll start it then
(13:43):
and get it done in one day, twoweeks later.
If you can start and finish atask in one day, two weeks later
, that means you can probablystart and finish a task in one
day, the day it's due or the daybefore it's due, right?
So in fact, that's calledParkinson's law, that the time
(14:03):
required for a task willcontract or expand to the amount
of time allowed for that task,and so the ADHD brain functions
under Parkinson's law all thetime.
So it decreases motivation.
Number one it sends a messagehey, you're not capable of
getting this done in the amountof time that everyone else is,
(14:24):
and that impacts self-esteem andself-confidence and
self-efficacy for learning, forsure.
Self-esteem and self-confidenceand self-efficacy for learning,
for sure.
And we aren't always going tohave extra time to complete
tasks in the real world.
So we aren't necessarily goingto have that kind of time in
college unless we also ask foraccommodations in college, and
(14:47):
that is not the same asaccommodations in high school.
So accommodations in K through12 are governed by the
Individuals with DisabilitiesEducation Act, idea, but it
switches to the ADA Americanswith Disabilities Act in college
because you're now an adult andso it functions a little
(15:08):
differently.
Those typically are notautomatically given.
You have to ask each individualprofessor to use an
accommodation every time youneed to use it.
That can create stress andanxiety and fear and shame, and
so you're either using it allthe time, which is stressful, or
you're worried about having totalk to your professor about
(15:29):
using it.
So then you don't use it, whichis stressful.
And then once you get out intothe world and you have a career
if you have a job that's timesensitive you're not going to be
able to have extra time tocomplete a task.
And when we think aboutaccommodations in the short term
, it seems reasonable.
Sure, okay, they can't stay ontask so we're going to give them
(15:50):
a few extra days or an extratwo weeks to get this done.
And when you think about thelong game, when you think about
it years later, decades later,if we don't come and address the
root cause of why we can't stayon task and accomplish
something in a set amount oftime, this struggle is going to
be why we get fired from jobafter job.
Or this struggle is going to bewhy we get fired from job after
(16:12):
job.
Or this struggle is going to bewhy co-workers are frustrated
with us again and again.
Or if we volunteer at anorganization and we can't meet a
deadline, right, people will befrustrated that we aren't
dependable.
This has long-term implicationsfor our friendships and for our
relationships at work and ourability to hold a job.
(16:33):
And oh, when we have our ownkids, right, our kids are going
to have deadlines, and so wecan't just say I didn't get
around to writing that check forsoccer camp.
I need an extra two weeks to dothat.
That's not the reality.
To do that that's not thereality.
So we have to go back and lookat what is the cause of not
(16:53):
being able to stay on task andaddress that not accommodate
that.
Sandy Zamalis (16:55):
So in thinking about that long term strategy of
there's the piece where we'rehandling the situation that's in
front of us right at the momentand we're trying to get through
that.
But we also want to keep inmind that we're building
something long term and we don'twant to create a problem for
our child down the road.
And back to my original examplewhat happens when you have two
(17:17):
parents and disconnect aboutthat?
If you have a parent who thinksyou know everything's fine,
going at the slower pace is fine, but you have a parent who's
clearly seeing this is a problemand it's causing me stress,
it's causing the child stress.
How can we help get parents onthe same page?
Dr. Amy Moore (17:37):
Yeah.
So I would encourage the parentwho recognizes that it's a
problem to talk about what it isthat they truly fear, and so
for them to be able to share.
What I truly fear is that mychild will not be able to
function independently whenthey're older.
That opens up a different partof the conversation.
What would that look like?
(17:59):
And so, when the other parentsees it as a fear, it no longer.
I think my kid needs this in themoment, but I'm fearful for
their future, and here's whythat might be a conversation
that no one has helped mediatebefore.
(18:22):
That it may just be, and oncethere's a disagreement and an
argument ensues, the otherperson stops listening.
Right, once we start arguing,we stop listening to each other.
And to be able to mediate,here's why I'm concerned.
Here's why I think that weshould address this now.
Then you can step in at thatpoint and say, hey, I want to
(18:44):
tell you what research showsthat in the absence of an
intervention, these strugglestend to continue to worsen, and
so it's a lot easier to catchthings early than it is to catch
them later.
Not only remediate a weakcognitive skill later, but then
(19:07):
you have to go back and look atall the content that was missed,
right?
Whereas if you catch it early,you can remediate the cognitive
skills and then a little bit ofcatch-up time and then your
child then begins processing allof the content.
On age level, that would be thegoal.
But if you're ninth grade, 10thgrade, 11th grade, not only do
(19:31):
you have to remediate thecognitive skills, but then you
have to go okay, what did theynot learn as a fifth, sixth,
seventh, eighth grader, right?
Because their cognitive skillswere weak.
Yeah, so it's a little bitharder.
Sandy Zamalis (19:43):
I have found that a lot of times these
conversations, the disconnect isoften from a parent who
understands struggle becausethey have struggled and so
they're seeing their childstruggle in the same way, and a
parent who didn't really havethat struggle, and so let's talk
about that, because I thinksometimes for what you would
(20:05):
call neurotypical or someone whojust cognitively was really
strong and so they'd never hadto really dig deep, and the same
way someone who has weakerskills would have to dig deep,
it's like they're not seeing,it's invisible to them.
They don't see that cognitivepiece or that feeling piece that
you addressed before.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:26):
Yeah, yeah, and it is hard to ask someone to
step into a struggle that youhad 20, 30 years ago maybe, but
it is helpful to describe.
Hey, I want to share how hardthis was for me and how it
impacted me, and I don't wantthat for our child.
(20:47):
I was bullied, I had lowself-esteem, I had struggles
with friendships, right,whatever the actual issue was.
To be vulnerable and honestabout it can go a long way in
some relationships.
Are you going to have parentswho are not going to ever get on
(21:10):
the same page?
Sure, absolutely.
And so humans are human.
Humans are going to continue tohuman parent who doesn't seem
open to seeking an intervention.
(21:32):
Then that conversation can bethe same as well.
What do you fear by trying?
Right, because it could befinancial, it could be the time
commitment, right, it could benot that they don't think it's
worth doing or that it wouldn'tbe valuable, but it okay.
(21:54):
You're fearful of this andyou're fearful of this.
How can we compromise?
(22:17):
How can we meet in the middle?
Sandy Zamalis (22:19):
to help the child and sometimes, when it's coming
from two loving parents who youknow are invested in their
family and in their child, whereone is having fear because
they're recognizing thehardships and the difficulty.
There's also the other side ofthe coin, perhaps, where that
parent is seeing the blessing,is seeing the uniqueness, is
(22:42):
seeing the individuality and notwanting to squelch that.
So let's talk about that.
Remediation doesn't change whosomeone is fundamentally.
Dr. Amy Moore (22:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's a really goodpoint.
We're not trying to change theperson, we're trying to help
make it less of a struggle.
So your personality doesn'tchange because you, who you are
fundamentally at the core,doesn't change because you have
(23:16):
stronger cognitive skills.
So there is this trend onsocial media to call whatever
the diagnosis is a superpower,and so I think that if you are
approaching your child'sdiagnosis as a superpower, then
the idea of changing anythingabout that child's diagnosis
(23:37):
then is going to make them losethis superpower.
What?
What's making them unique,what's making them special?
And the reality is they'restill going to be unique and
they're still going to bespecial.
And it doesn't change adiagnosis to strengthen some
weak cognitive skills.
It changes the struggleassociated with the diagnosis,
(23:57):
and the reality is it isn't asuperpower, it's a struggle.
And to not say it's a struggleis to not see the struggle.
What is a superpower are thosethings that your child excels in
, those things that your childdoes well, that bring them joy,
that they accomplish and succeedin despite the struggle.
(24:20):
And so I think that we have toshift our focus to right what is
it that you're really great at?
What is it that's so greatabout you.
Focus on that as the superpowerand then work over here and say
I noticed that you'restruggling and I want to help
with this.
Sandy Zamalis (24:39):
Yeah, because what we're trying to do is
unshackle them, right, becausethat's the issue with the
processing side of the equationis that it can shackle them and
their ability to functionsuccessfully in as an efficient
way as possible.
We want them to be able to soar, have less frustration, yeah,
(25:01):
and use their unique gifts in amore abundant way.
I love that, yeah.
Hi Sandy.
Sandy Zamalis (00:04):
Hi Amy, how are you Good?
It's super fun to be in person,it is.
It feels like it's been agauntlet of a day to try to
figure all this out, but yes,it's been a lot of fun.
Yeah, it has.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:15):
And we've had so many conversations the last
couple of days about Wishing wehad mics and we're recording
them.
Sandy Zamalis (00:23):
Yes, oh my gosh, we and we're recording them.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:24):
Yes, oh my gosh, we should have been recording
him.
And we got really smart, likewhen we interview guests, we
start recording right away, sowe don't miss anything.
Sandy Zamalis (00:32):
That would have been a great interview
conversation and then, but thenwe went and messed it all up
today we did, but that's okay,cause I remember with one that I
think would have, I think ourlisteners would want to hear.
Okay, so when we were talkingyesterday, I was telling you
about a recent consultation Ihad with a family and we were
(00:52):
talking about their child andthey were behind in some subject
areas, and so we did somecognitive testing to figure out
what was going on.
The mom definitely had all theradars blaring and wanted to get
some help.
Dad was a little bit more inthe space of everything will be
fine, it'll work itself out.
(01:14):
And I always struggle when I'mhaving conversations, with that
dynamic of helping a family byreally advocating for the child
who's struggling but also for,in this case, a mom who was
really seeing a problem.
And so what I wanted to talkabout from a podcast perspective
(01:35):
is how do we help familiesunderstand the cognitive piece,
separate from the learning piece?
Because there's always thatnotion of my child is really
smart, they're going to be fine,but we don't really understand
the cognitive piece, and so whenyou try to address it, a lot of
times it just ends up in abehavior bucket or it ends up in
(01:58):
a space where sometimes, whenthere's that disconnect.
It's really hard to help afamily understand the knowledge
piece or learning piece, asidefrom how a child processes
information and how frustratingthat is when we're not
processing efficiently.
So that's what I wanted tospend some time talking about
(02:21):
today, because really in ourespecially in education and the
way we approach helping kids,it's all in accommodation and
compensation strategies.
We don't talk about skillbuilding and that skill building
can actually turn that around,so that child has less
frustration and is able toprocess easier, while still
(02:44):
being the brilliant human thatthey are with their own unique
brain and how their brainprocesses information.
So let's dig in on that alittle bit.
Let's talk about first what dowe do when there's a disconnect
between mom and dad and it cango either way and truly
understanding that differencebetween our, how our brain
(03:05):
learns information, how itprocesses, and then that unique
piece of just learning ingeneral, learning facts.
I'll let you take it from there.
Dr. Amy Moore (03:14):
So that's a super frustrating space to sit in,
right when you're working with afamily and parents aren't on
the same page, and so I want totalk about the second parts of
your question first and thencome back to okay, then, how can
we use this information to helpparents align their views?
(03:36):
Would that work?
Yeah, that sounds great.
Yeah.
So I think that we frequentlyforget that our brain is
responsible not just forthinking and learning, but for
feeling as well, and so it's allconnected, and emotions are
actually our relationship withlanguage, so it's the words that
(03:58):
we use to describe what it isthat we're feeling in our bodies
and in our minds.
That is all influenced by howwe process what we're feeling in
our bodies and in our minds.
That is all influenced by howwe process what we're feeling.
So let me give you an example.
When we are faced with asituation that feels like a
crisis, we need strong cognitiveskills in order to quickly
(04:24):
weigh all of the variables.
We need strong visualprocessing skills to take in
everything around us to say isthis truly a crisis or have I
misunderstood what I just saw?
Or we need strong auditoryprocessing skills to go.
Did I understand what I justthink?
I heard, and if we don't havestrong working memory, then we
(04:44):
can't hold all of thealternatives in our mind at the
same time in order to reasonthrough what's happening.
So that means we need strongreasoning skills as well, and we
need strong processing speed,because we need to be able to
weigh all of these alternativesand reason through them quickly
before we hit fight or flight.
(05:05):
And so we're using all of theseskills that we typically
associate with learning.
We use that in how we processemotions as well.
The strength or weakness in ourcognitive skills is going to
have this trickle down effect.
So not only does it impact ourability to think and learn and
(05:26):
remember and pay attention andreason, but it's also going to
impact how we are socially andemotionally.
So it has this broad reachingimpact, and not just on.
They'll eventually catch up inmath, if that makes sense.
Sandy Zamalis (05:42):
Yeah.
So that leads me to my nextquestion, and this comes up a
lot in my office, and especiallyfor homeschool families,
because we love homeschoolfamilies, we work with
homeschool families all the time, but there is a general I would
say pervasive approach of letthe child be where they're at,
(06:04):
go at their pace, and so it'shard to know.
Yes, I know my child is behind,but how far is too far behind.
So let's speak to that.
How do we address being behind?
Because we want both things wewant to be able to meet them
where they're at, but we alsowant to prepare them for the
future and make sure thateventually they're catching up.
Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Amy Moore (06:42):
So I think recognizing that a child is
behind in a certain season isdifferent than recognizing that
my child is behind in allsubjects, in all areas of
development and has been for along time.
And so if it's because, hey, mychild is really struggling with
this math concept, so it'staking us longer to get through
these three chapters, forexample, so my kid is falling
behind, that is not a red flagto me.
That's just saying, hey, thisis a difficult skill and some
(07:06):
skills take longer to learn thanothers.
And do we need to go back andrevisit some of the prior skills
that now have spiraled aroundto build on this new one,
because maybe they didn't catchthat prior one enough in order
to be able to master this one,right?
So, yes, we're two or threeweeks behind, that's okay.
(07:30):
It's when it becomes a patternacross multiple subjects where
we are not making progress.
My child is struggling not justin math, but in language arts
and in social studies and inscience and in social skill
development, right, like you'reseeing this pattern of struggle
(07:53):
in more than one area, thenthat's when you need to say what
do we need to do?
What are we missing?
What skills doesn't my childhave that they need in order to
catch up.
So I think we need to first say, hey, is this a pattern, and is
it happening in more than onearea, or is this just a season
(08:16):
in a subject?
You know, I think let'sdifferentiate that.
Okay, my guess is those parentswouldn't be sitting in one of
our offices if it was just ashort season in one subject.
So then we have to say, okay,how long has this behind pattern
(08:36):
been happening and what does itlook like?
So is it just that they haven'tbeen able to master these tasks
or is it beginning now toimpact their self-esteem?
Are they becoming emotionallydysregulated because their
frustration levels are so highthat now it is bleeding out into
(08:57):
our conversations as a family.
It is bleeding out into theirsocial development with their
siblings and their peers.
We begin to this permeate allareas of a child's life when
they don't have the skills tofunction on age level and I say
(09:18):
age level right, because gradescan be arbitrary, especially in
the homeschool world, and ifthey are significantly behind
for their age, we're going to beseeing that impacting other
areas and it's going to impacttheir confidence in things like
joining co-ops, trying newsports.
Sandy Zamalis (09:36):
A family told me recently just that their child
was not wanting to have toparticipate in their Sunday
school class because they do alot of interactive and read
aloud work and so they didn'twant the spotlight on them.
I had a consult years ago wherethe family didn't really realize
how much it was impacting theirchild until they had to make a
(09:59):
big life adjustment.
They had been homeschooling andthis particular child had some
struggles all along the way andbecause of life circumstances,
they were having to make adecision to put them into
private school.
And that's when everything cameapart, because that child was
able to then express no, I don'tfeel like I can accomplish that
(10:23):
and do it well, and so they hadsought us out for some help in
that regard, because I don'tthink kids often will share what
their struggles are in thatkind of depth.
So sometimes I think as aparent it's easy to think
everything's okay, that we'rejust accommodating and we're
compensating and things are fine, and we're not really getting
(10:44):
to the heart of how the childfeels about their ability to
process as compared to theirpeers.
Yeah, would you agree?
Dr. Amy Moore (10:52):
Yeah, absolutely, because it's shameful and
embarrassing and sometimes youdon't even know as a child how
to articulate what that feelingis.
Just that it doesn't feel right.
I know that when one of my kidswas in fourth, third or fourth
grade and was really strugglingwith dyslexia, came home one day
(11:15):
and said Mom, if they gavegrades for making friends, I
would get a D minus vibrantchild begin to wilt because he
just felt like a failure and itwas showing.
Kids compare themselves to oneanother and then if you're a
(11:38):
homeschool family you don'tnecessarily see that comparison
but your child will still feellike a failure if they aren't
capable of performing ormastering a lesson.
They're going to see yourfrustration at thinking maybe
this is the wrong curriculum ormaybe I don't have the correct
instructional skills.
But when we've changedcurriculum last year and this
(12:01):
year and the next year, we'velearned new instructional
strategies and the struggle isstill there, then it's probably
in the brain, it's not in thebooks and we talk about that all
the time.
Right that when we can identifythe root cause of that struggle
, then we can see not only thestruggle in learning and
(12:23):
thinking change, but the wholeworld opens up.
At that point.
Sandy Zamalis (12:27):
So let's talk about that.
Let's talk about the long game.
Accommodations are great,compensation strategies are
great.
They're helpful, but I thinkthey're more short term and
immediate.
They're like what we need to doto survive this thing that
we're working on right now, buteventually we have to build the
skill that we need so thatlong-term, I don't need that
accommodation or compensation.
(12:48):
So, from your perspective, whatdo you see as that long-term
building strategy?
Dr. Amy Moore (12:55):
Yeah.
So let's use extra time for anassignment or a test as a very
common accommodation, especiallyfor kids with ADHD.
And so what that does is itsays OK, my brain cannot stay on
task.
Therefore, my mom or my teacherhave given me extra time to
(13:20):
accomplish this task.
That decreases motivation toget that task done, because the
ADHD brain says oh, I have twomore weeks, there's no reason
for me to work on this now.
The ADHD brain works best underpressure, so they're going to
wait right until the day beforeit's due and we'll start it then
(13:43):
and get it done in one day, twoweeks later.
If you can start and finish atask in one day, two weeks later
, that means you can probablystart and finish a task in one
day, the day it's due or the daybefore it's due, right?
So in fact, that's calledParkinson's law, that the time
(14:03):
required for a task willcontract or expand to the amount
of time allowed for that task,and so the ADHD brain functions
under Parkinson's law all thetime.
So it decreases motivation.
Number one it sends a messagehey, you're not capable of
getting this done in the amountof time that everyone else is,
(14:24):
and that impacts self-esteem andself-confidence and
self-efficacy for learning, forsure.
Self-esteem and self-confidenceand self-efficacy for learning,
for sure.
And we aren't always going tohave extra time to complete
tasks in the real world.
So we aren't necessarily goingto have that kind of time in
college unless we also ask foraccommodations in college, and
(14:47):
that is not the same asaccommodations in high school.
So accommodations in K through12 are governed by the
Individuals with DisabilitiesEducation Act, idea, but it
switches to the ADA Americanswith Disabilities Act in college
because you're now an adult andso it functions a little
(15:08):
differently.
Those typically are notautomatically given.
You have to ask each individualprofessor to use an
accommodation every time youneed to use it.
That can create stress andanxiety and fear and shame, and
so you're either using it allthe time, which is stressful, or
you're worried about having totalk to your professor about
(15:29):
using it.
So then you don't use it, whichis stressful.
And then once you get out intothe world and you have a career
if you have a job that's timesensitive you're not going to be
able to have extra time tocomplete a task.
And when we think aboutaccommodations in the short term
, it seems reasonable.
Sure, okay, they can't stay ontask so we're going to give them
(15:50):
a few extra days or an extratwo weeks to get this done.
And when you think about thelong game, when you think about
it years later, decades later,if we don't come and address the
root cause of why we can't stayon task and accomplish
something in a set amount oftime, this struggle is going to
be why we get fired from jobafter job.
Or this struggle is going to bewhy we get fired from job after
(16:12):
job.
Or this struggle is going to bewhy co-workers are frustrated
with us again and again.
Or if we volunteer at anorganization and we can't meet a
deadline, right, people will befrustrated that we aren't
dependable.
This has long-term implicationsfor our friendships and for our
relationships at work and ourability to hold a job.
(16:33):
And oh, when we have our ownkids, right, our kids are going
to have deadlines, and so wecan't just say I didn't get
around to writing that check forsoccer camp.
I need an extra two weeks to dothat.
That's not the reality.
To do that that's not thereality.
So we have to go back and lookat what is the cause of not
(16:53):
being able to stay on task andaddress that not accommodate
that.
Sandy Zamalis (16:55):
So in thinking about that long term strategy of
there's the piece where we'rehandling the situation that's in
front of us right at the momentand we're trying to get through
that.
But we also want to keep inmind that we're building
something long term and we don'twant to create a problem for
our child down the road.
And back to my original examplewhat happens when you have two
(17:17):
parents and disconnect aboutthat?
If you have a parent who thinksyou know everything's fine,
going at the slower pace is fine, but you have a parent who's
clearly seeing this is a problemand it's causing me stress,
it's causing the child stress.
How can we help get parents onthe same page?
Dr. Amy Moore (17:37):
Yeah.
So I would encourage the parentwho recognizes that it's a
problem to talk about what it isthat they truly fear, and so
for them to be able to share.
What I truly fear is that mychild will not be able to
function independently whenthey're older.
That opens up a different partof the conversation.
What would that look like?
(17:59):
And so, when the other parentsees it as a fear, it no longer.
I think my kid needs this in themoment, but I'm fearful for
their future, and here's whythat might be a conversation
that no one has helped mediatebefore.
(18:22):
That it may just be, and oncethere's a disagreement and an
argument ensues, the otherperson stops listening.
Right, once we start arguing,we stop listening to each other.
And to be able to mediate,here's why I'm concerned.
Here's why I think that weshould address this now.
Then you can step in at thatpoint and say, hey, I want to
(18:44):
tell you what research showsthat in the absence of an
intervention, these strugglestend to continue to worsen, and
so it's a lot easier to catchthings early than it is to catch
them later.
Not only remediate a weakcognitive skill later, but then
(19:07):
you have to go back and look atall the content that was missed,
right?
Whereas if you catch it early,you can remediate the cognitive
skills and then a little bit ofcatch-up time and then your
child then begins processing allof the content.
On age level, that would be thegoal.
But if you're ninth grade, 10thgrade, 11th grade, not only do
(19:31):
you have to remediate thecognitive skills, but then you
have to go okay, what did theynot learn as a fifth, sixth,
seventh, eighth grader, right?
Because their cognitive skillswere weak.
Yeah, so it's a little bitharder.
Sandy Zamalis (19:43):
I have found that a lot of times these
conversations, the disconnect isoften from a parent who
understands struggle becausethey have struggled and so
they're seeing their childstruggle in the same way, and a
parent who didn't really havethat struggle, and so let's talk
about that, because I thinksometimes for what you would
(20:05):
call neurotypical or someone whojust cognitively was really
strong and so they'd never hadto really dig deep, and the same
way someone who has weakerskills would have to dig deep,
it's like they're not seeing,it's invisible to them.
They don't see that cognitivepiece or that feeling piece that
you addressed before.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:26):
Yeah, yeah, and it is hard to ask someone to
step into a struggle that youhad 20, 30 years ago maybe, but
it is helpful to describe.
Hey, I want to share how hardthis was for me and how it
impacted me, and I don't wantthat for our child.
(20:47):
I was bullied, I had lowself-esteem, I had struggles
with friendships, right,whatever the actual issue was.
To be vulnerable and honestabout it can go a long way in
some relationships.
Are you going to have parentswho are not going to ever get on
(21:10):
the same page?
Sure, absolutely.
And so humans are human.
Humans are going to continue tohuman parent who doesn't seem
open to seeking an intervention.
(21:32):
Then that conversation can bethe same as well.
What do you fear by trying?
Right, because it could befinancial, it could be the time
commitment, right, it could benot that they don't think it's
worth doing or that it wouldn'tbe valuable, but it okay.
(21:54):
You're fearful of this andyou're fearful of this.
How can we compromise?
(22:17):
How can we meet in the middle?
Sandy Zamalis (22:19):
to help the child and sometimes, when it's coming
from two loving parents who youknow are invested in their
family and in their child, whereone is having fear because
they're recognizing thehardships and the difficulty.
There's also the other side ofthe coin, perhaps, where that
parent is seeing the blessing,is seeing the uniqueness, is
(22:42):
seeing the individuality and notwanting to squelch that.
So let's talk about that.
Remediation doesn't change whosomeone is fundamentally.
Dr. Amy Moore (22:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's a really goodpoint.
We're not trying to change theperson, we're trying to help
make it less of a struggle.
So your personality doesn'tchange because you, who you are
fundamentally at the core,doesn't change because you have
(23:16):
stronger cognitive skills.
So there is this trend onsocial media to call whatever
the diagnosis is a superpower,and so I think that if you are
approaching your child'sdiagnosis as a superpower, then
the idea of changing anythingabout that child's diagnosis
(23:37):
then is going to make them losethis superpower.
What?
What's making them unique,what's making them special?
And the reality is they'restill going to be unique and
they're still going to bespecial.
And it doesn't change adiagnosis to strengthen some
weak cognitive skills.
It changes the struggleassociated with the diagnosis,
(23:57):
and the reality is it isn't asuperpower, it's a struggle.
And to not say it's a struggleis to not see the struggle.
What is a superpower are thosethings that your child excels in
, those things that your childdoes well, that bring them joy,
that they accomplish and succeedin despite the struggle.
(24:20):
And so I think that we have toshift our focus to right what is
it that you're really great at?
What is it that's so greatabout you.
Focus on that as the superpowerand then work over here and say
I noticed that you'restruggling and I want to help
with this.
Sandy Zamalis (24:39):
Yeah, because what we're trying to do is
unshackle them, right, becausethat's the issue with the
processing side of the equationis that it can shackle them and
their ability to functionsuccessfully in as an efficient
way as possible.
We want them to be able to soar, have less frustration, yeah,
(25:01):
and use their unique gifts in amore abundant way.
I love that, yeah.
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