December 29, 2023 • 57 mins
As your guide through the intricate world of language and interpretation, I, Mireya Pérez, extend a warm invitation to join an auditory expedition into the heart of our profession on the Brand the Interpreter Podcast. This season's tapestry weaves emotional self-care with Francisca "Mana" Hoce's wisdom, historical dives into the deaf community's technological strides, and the labyrinths of Indigenous languages with Eulogio Espinoza. Together, we've navigated the personal and systemic; from the rebranding of patients in healthcare to the cold touch of AI on our field, each narrative thread is a testament to the resilience and adaptability of interpreters.
Prepare to challenge your perceptions as we dissect the poisonous mantras that threaten to undermine our self-worth within the interpreting landscape. We shed light on the shadows of doubt that can envelop even the most seasoned professionals, advocating for paths paved with authenticity. The saga of La Malinche unfolds, beckoning us to explore the interpreters' place in history, while the urgent narrative of human trafficking demands our attention, highlighting the interpreter's role in this global fight. These conversations are more than discussions—they are calls to action, reminders of the weight our words carry, and the importance we must place on understanding and sharing our own history.
As Season 6 draws to a close, I express deep gratitude for the stories shared and the communal growth fostered. The anticipation for Season 7's transformation is palpable, with promises of a renewed format and dynamic production to enrich your listening experience. So, as we bid farewell to this chapter, remember to subscribe for the upcoming season and immerse yourself in the narratives that bind us, inspire us, and remind us of our collective journey in the vast world of language and interpretation.
Share your thoughts about this episode!
Thanks for tuning in, till next time! 👋
Connect with Mireya Pérez, Host
www.brandtheinterpreter.com
Facebook
LinkedIn
Instagram
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's the last episode of the year here at Brand the
Interpreter Podcast, and whatthat means is a year in recap of
all the amazing guests thatwe've had on the show this 2023.
What I do is take thehighlights of my conversations
with the guests and put them allin a bite-sized production just
for you.
It's actually one of myfavorite things to do at the end
(00:21):
of the year, because it helpsremind me about all the great
conversations that I hadthroughout the year and in the
end, it becomes this collage ofinterpreter challenges, insights
, growth, learning experiences.
It basically forms a story, ourstory, the story of language
(00:44):
professionals from differentcorners of the world all in one
platform.
I began 2023 with wanting tokick off the year with
interpreter self-care, and forthat I invited Francisca, or
Manna as her friend's callerOsez with mindful interpreting.
Take a listen.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
My teacher, mr Juan Curilem, which I really
appreciate.
So shout out to you, mr Juan,if you ever listen to this.
So he taught us a way in whichwe didn't necessarily need to be
identified with the speaker orwith the character.
We didn't need to be identifiedso it isn't myself, but I could
be as if I was the person.
(01:29):
I think that has protected alot of my mental health, because
if you say to yourself, okay,this is going to be as if I was
this person, but I'm notactually this person.
I have my own things, but I'mgoing to be as if I was this
person.
So this person is upset, she'sangry, or he is worried because
(01:51):
of some health outcome, or youdon't know actually, but if you
present yourself as a personthat is available, that is
willing to receive that message,then you can portray it.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I don't think I have ever gone an episode without me
myself having learned somethingthroughout the conversation with
the guest.
So I share the episodes and theconversations with you in hopes
that you also encounter thesame experience, that is, that
you too also encounter somelevel of growth or some level of
(02:25):
higher understanding about atopic that maybe yesterday you
didn't know much about.
The episode the linguisticminority with Sarah Baker, also
taking place at the beginning ofthis year, is an example of
such a moment in which my mindexpanded because I learned just
a little bit more about the deafcommunity.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I remember when I lived in New Jersey that's where
I was born and my mom hadbrought me over to my quote
unquote aunt Charlotte's houseand aunt Charlotte was deaf, and
so we were in her apartment andwe were there just visiting,
enjoying some snacks, coffee,etc.
And I remember sitting there onher couch and this was probably
(03:06):
back in the early 2000s, soperhaps 2002 and on her couch I
was sitting and all of a suddenthe room just lights up.
Where the lamp is flashing,next to me, the TV is flashing
and I thought what in the world,what is this?
And she reaches for her remoteand she presses a button and an
(03:27):
interpreter pops up on hertelevision screen and, of course
, me being about 11 years old atthe time, I was thinking whoa,
what is this?
So that was her video phone call, and back in the early 2000s,
that's how deaf people were ableto communicate on the telephone
.
So it was brand new technologyat the time.
In the early 2000s, videophones, or, as we call them, vps
(03:51):
, were being installed in deafhomes.
So that's how she was able tohave access, to be able to
communicate via telephone.
So I believe it was a call thatcame in and saying her
prescription was ready forpickup at the pharmacy or
something like that.
So yeah, that was my firstexposure to what's called video
relay service.
So instead of hearing the phoneringing, you can see the lights
(04:13):
blinking.
That's part of deaf culture.
That's how they do it at home.
That's where a teacher canflick the lights in the
classroom to get the student'sattention.
A nurse walking into a deafpatient's hospital room can
flick the light switch in orderfor the deaf patient to look
toward the door.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
In 2023, I invited Eulogio Spinoza to speak about
Indigenous interpreting.
Here's a highlight of thatconversation.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
The Mistecco language , the one I do there's a lot
more variant.
If those that have heard aboutMistecco, they often may be hear
about Mistecco Alto, misteccoBajo, mistecco de la Costa or
Mistecco de Guerrero.
So that's only four variants,right, but the reality is
there's about more than 86variants of the Mistecco
(05:00):
language and it's not aone-size-fits-all, so one
Mistecco is not going to becompatible with all those 86
variants.
So categorizing the languagegoes back to the anthropologist
that went to Oaxaca and therewas the one that categorized it.
We don't have the map to showyou right now but there's sort
(05:25):
of the upper higher which wouldnorth west.
I guess that would be sort ofthe Mistecco Bajo and then sort
of to the central south ofOaxaca.
That would be what is known asAlto.
But even then the community ofthe south don't call their
Mistecco Bajo or Mistecco Alto.
And when they do call ormention their Mistecco being
(05:48):
Bajo, that was because eithersomeone else have already told
them that that is their language.
But the reality is theirMistecco is going to be from
their hometown or from theirdistrict.
For example, my Mistecco isconsidered as Mistecco Bajo.
But the way I always say is Ispeak Mistecco from somewhat
penis.
Here in the US we call themtribes or nation tribal nations,
(06:12):
and in Mexico we call them asindigenous groups.
We don't use the word tribe.
So the Mistecco is the regionis in Oaxaca, guerrero and in
Puebla, so it covers quite somespace around that area.
So we aren't direct descendantof the Nawaz or the Aztecs, but
(06:33):
rather they were a differentindigenous group, although the
Aztecs did conquer most of thesouth of Mexico, what we know as
Mexico today, and so they did,I guess, essentially conquer the
Mistecco and most of Oaxaca.
But we are a differentindigenous group from them.
So after enough we hear inMexico, or all the Mexicans,
(06:57):
they're proud to be Aztecs, andalthough that is true for most.
But there are different othergroups of indigenous in Mexico.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
This year I also had the incredible opportunity to
speak with a team of doctorsfrom Seattle Children's Hospital
.
Authors of the commentary.
Language matters why we shouldreconsider the term limited
English proficiency.
I remember concluding thatconversation feeling very
enlightened and feeling full,and what I mean by that is, you
(07:28):
know, that feeling ofsatisfaction when you eat a
delicious and good meal andyou're just happy and full.
That's how I felt, but for mymind.
My mind felt full and satisfied.
I had the opportunity to havesuch great guests on the show
and be able to fill my mind witheven more knowledge.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
You know, when we focus in that way on limitations
, it changes the way we thinkabout what we as the clinicians
are sort of doing.
Right, it makes it seem likethey need something extra and
different from me, rather thanit being part of that normal
(08:10):
frame where, rather than itactually being about like, well,
I don't speak Vietnamese, so,just like I'm not a cardiologist
and if I need cardiologyexpertise, I'm going to, you
know, talk with my cardiologistcolleagues who have specialized
knowledge and training in thatfield, right.
And similarly, if I have afamily that speaks Vietnamese,
(08:32):
then I need to actually pull ina colleague with specialized
training for that.
But that's not how we thinkabout it.
When we frame the family asbeing limited, that makes it
seem like, well, they're lackingsomething and then, well,
there's something I could doextra to try to address that,
but I'll do it if I have time orI'll do it if you know, but
(08:54):
it's going to put me out Right.
And so I think there's a reallyimportant way and we don't
think about like none of it'sconscious, but I think there are
really important ways that whenwe're framing it as like a real
deficit in the family, itchanges our whole relationship
to how we respond to it?
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Yeah, I was just going to add to that that that
is felt and experienced by ourpatients and their families too.
Like they feel, then, that theyare the ones that are deficient
, that they aren't bringingsomething to the table and that
because of that that they aren'tgoing to get good enough care,
(09:30):
and that is really negative.
You know, that perpetuateschallenges in providing
excellent care, because they'reperceiving our deficiency as
their deficiency, because we'vecreated a system that makes them
perceive that, and part of whychanging the system level of how
we approach this is soimportant, because it's not just
(09:52):
me changing the words I use orDr Yeboah changing the words she
uses.
It's actually changing how weas a system approach patients
who speak languages other thanEnglish, so that the deficiency
isn't internalized by them whenthey are receiving care in our
institutions.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
The thing that I would add on to that is that
actually part of the process ofchanging the language that's
used throughout SeattleChildren's from LEP to language
other than English involvedtalking to community members and
they told us these things right.
They told us, yes, it feelsstigmatizing, it feels bad, it
(10:33):
feels like I'm a burden, and wewere then able to run by and
probably jumping the gun here,but we were able to run by a
number of different alternateterminologies and get community
input and I think that's justsuch a crucial piece of
understanding, like what we sayabout patients and families.
(10:54):
They hear and they feel, and wehear and we feel, and it
changes everything about how weinteract with them.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Advocacy for language justice is a career in and of
itself.
This year, I had theopportunity to speak with Dr
Bill Rivers.
He shared with us more abouthis career trajectory and, of
course, about his languageaccess efforts.
Speaker 7 (11:17):
People who want to discriminate are not dumb enough
to do it.
You know disparate treatment.
They're not dumb enough to comeright out and say it right but
they'll say oh well, you have tobe, you know.
So the the the way disparateimpact actually evolved as
illegal doctrine is in my memoryAt least.
I could be mistaken, I'm alinguist, not lawyer.
Could be mistating us is thatonce the civil rights act was
(11:39):
passed, and there were alsogender discrimination provisions
in there too, fire departmentsand police departments would say
, oh, you have to be five footnine to apply, or you have to be
able to do X number of pull-upsto apply.
Well, who does thatdiscriminate against?
And it's women, right, becausethe average woman is several
inches shorter than the averageman and most women can't do the
(11:59):
same number of pull-ups that aman can.
So there was other case lawfrom the Supreme Court that said
no, you can't.
You can't hide yourdiscrimination by coming up with
some broader category.
That's disparate impact.
Disparate treatment is when yousingle out a category.
Disparate impact is when youcome up with some overall term
or some some mechanism todiscriminate.
(12:21):
Not providing language accessis generally disparate impact.
And what the Clinton executiveorder did is, it said if it's
disparate treatment, you can suewhoever's saying no, irish need
apply, but it's disparateimpact.
You have to go file a civilrights complaint with the
cognizant regional office ofcivil rights.
(12:44):
So if this entity is funded bythe Department of Education, you
file with the regionalDepartment of Education office
of civil rights.
Or if it's, if it's a medicalyou know, if it's funded by
Medicare and Medicaid etc.
Then you file with the regionalDHHS office of civil rights.
Now that has a good side and abad side.
The bad side is that a lot ofimmigrant folks may not know
(13:05):
their rights, may not know howto Assert their rights and may
not not know how to file acomplaint, or they may not want
to, as we talked before, may notwant to file a complaint with
the government.
That's the downside.
The upside is and this wasexplained to me by the Attorney
General of the state of Marylandat the time when I was doing a
statewide needs assessment andwas Talking this through with
(13:28):
him and my salad days I was muchyounger and and he says well,
you know, and I was, why can't Isue if?
If it's disparate impacts?
Well, if you, if it's disparatetreatment, you can, you know,
sue as much as you want.
How much money you got, you'regonna sue the state of Maryland.
How much money you got, howlong can you last?
But if you file a civil rightscomplaint, the federal
(13:49):
government's gonna investigateand sue the state of Maryland
and and that means there will bea settlement right, because the
federal government hasessentially limitless
Investigatory and and litigationresources this year I also had
the amazing opportunity To speakwith professor Holly Mickelson.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Here's a clip of our conversation.
Speaker 9 (14:14):
As far as translation goes, machine translation has
really made a difference and ithasn't eliminated human
translators.
I don't think that voicerecognition and machine
Artificial intelligence is goingto replace interpreters either.
I think it's going to changethe settings in which
(14:36):
interpreting takes place.
It's going to change howinterpreters do their jobs, but
there's always going to be aneed for human input, especially
with the varieties of languagethat Community interpreters deal
with.
You're dealing with people fromall over in our case, the
(14:57):
Spanish speaking world, peoplewho have not had a strong formal
education, who speaknon-standard language, and it's
harder for artificialintelligence, I think, to to
figure that kind of thing out.
It does.
I mean, it is amazing how muchartificial intelligence can do
(15:20):
and it's just getting better andbetter.
I think Google translate andDeep-L and all those machine
translation products haveimproved tremendously, but they
still need some human input.
So I'm glad it's making thehumans more productive and it's
(15:40):
spreading accessibility.
So I think it's a good thing,but we have to adapt and people
have to Be in on the groundfloor to make sure that it is
used properly and not abused.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
The beauty about our profession is that there are
many different angles throughwhich we can focus on and expand
on what we do.
This next clip is from theepisode entitled communicative
equity with Dr Dominic Ledesma.
Speaker 8 (16:08):
But one of the ways that I saw myself as a trained
language professional, but alsoin a in a degree program for
educational leadership, was,like I was thinking, is that we
also need, you know, empiricalresearch.
We also need empirical research,and this is one way that I saw
myself being able to contributesomething To our profession and
the work that still needs to getdone.
(16:29):
And so but don't get me wrong,though like the purpose of
seeing Research or this, this orthis dissertation, you know, as
a way to do that, the purposeis not to intellectualize the
profession.
The purpose is to be able toLook at these issues from a
different way, to refine ourlanguage what do we call that?
(16:51):
When that happens, or how canwe talk about this?
And embedded within there, it'snot just about developing new
terms, but really trying to beable to articulate the
strategies that can work andlead toward more bi-directional,
equitable communications andbilateral relations between
English dominant and non Englishdominant populations, in
(17:11):
particular in public servinginstitutions, where language
access policy mandates are areal thing and apply here's
Jesse Lu on the episode.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
A respected profession.
Speaker 10 (17:23):
Well, I feel that a lot of us who are in this
profession Is that we realizehow impactful and how powerful
the result of our work can be.
It not only bridges the gap, itreally it empowers people,
because we send informationalong with the language and we
(17:47):
sent meaning along.
So, given this importance andthis trust, it is not to be
taken lightly and Obviously.
When we work in this profession, when we give our time, when we
Spend time to make sure we arealways Up to date with what is
happening around us in ourcommunity, and we spent time to
(18:09):
make sure that we're alwayssharpened with our language
skills, we deserve to be paidwell and we deserve the respect.
You know, I don't appreciate howpeople don't understand what
our jobs entail.
They think that we are somehowbecause we speak two languages
(18:34):
and they just tell us tell mewhat this one says, tell me what
that says.
No, I cannot tell you what itsays, not without reading it
first.
It's almost like people don'tunderstand how we work and I
wish there could be more effortsin educating the public, making
sure they understand that we'renot walking dictionaries.
(18:58):
We are human and we areextremely talented human beings.
And not only we're extremelytalented.
We have a big heart.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I was blown away by the determination of this next
guest this year of becoming aninterpreter despite the fact
that she was born blind.
Take a listen.
Speaker 11 (19:22):
Number one cut through the red tape at the
testing centers and make surethat people get the
accommodations they asked for asclose as you can get.
So, for instance, anothertotally blind friend of mine in
the field of computer sciencehad indicated to the testing
agency okay, I need a reader tosit at the computer and read me
(19:45):
the written test and click themouse.
He showed up and they said, oh,we've got a great big monitor
for you and he said I'm totallyblind, it's not gonna help me.
So he'd probably already paidthe testing fee and ended up
having to cancel last minutebecause the inappropriate
accommodations were in place.
The testing centers make metake a picture of a Braille
(20:06):
tablet or a Braille display orsomething that I am much more,
as I say, efficient at using,and they see a keyboard they
don't recognize and they say, oh, you can't use this.
So the testing centers need toeducate themselves about what is
out there, about the fact thatmost Braille displays are slave
(20:28):
devices, which means they pluginto a computer and work through
a screen reader.
Nowadays some Braille displayshave a scratchpad function, but
again there's a way to turn thatoff.
So that's huge.
I actually know of a fellowinterpreter who requested a
(20:51):
reader and I don't know how theygot Armenian interpreter out of
reader, but this very niceArmenian interpreter ended up
reading her the test.
You know, if I had my druthers,I would love testing centers to
have screen reading technologyon board that was kept up to
date, at at least one computerper regional site at a minimum.
(21:15):
Same for magnification software, same for if a dyslexic person
needs Kurzweil 3000, a scan andread program.
You know, whatever People, justthey need to try to learn about
what's out there and that.
No, I am not going to go into atesting environment and try to
(21:36):
cheat or something.
That's just not who I am and Iunderstand the logic of why
certain technologies are notallowed in, but if people you
know, after I took thecertification exam, for instance
, someone was able to take itwith an iPad and I said, wait a
minute, that's not entirely fairbecause I was made to bring in
(21:58):
a slight and stylus.
Yeah, so that's the huge piece.
The other piece, which Iactually had the pleasure and
honor to participate in in thebeginning, was one of the folks
who was really in charge of theCNI NBCMI exam, reached out to
me and said could you help talkus through?
(22:21):
You know, could you get to knowthese other candidates with
visual impairment, see whatthey're going to need, and we'll
schedule a time and you, I andthe candidate will meet and
we'll talk through potentialaccommodations.
And I did get to help a fewpeople and that was really
amazing.
That's amazing, but I cannottell you how frustrating it is
(22:43):
to deal with a testing center,not just a proctor the proctor
were really great but the actualoverseeing testing agency, like
Prometric or something, andthey don't have a clue what I
need.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
This year's most downloaded episode belongs to Dr
Jonathan Downey, with theepisode entitled Thriving as an
Interpreter Amid AI Advancements.
Here's a clip of thatconversation.
Speaker 12 (23:12):
So I got to I'm struggling with my mental health
, panic stations, you know, bigred light.
Oops, this is trouble.
And it was the fear of havingpoor mental health that was
keeping me in the pit that I wasin this time.
I realized, okay, I've beenkind of here before, this isn't
fun.
(23:32):
And I did all the blamingmyself fairly quickly you know,
you must be a bad interpreterblah, blah, blah.
And then I came out to well,what do I do?
You know, I can sit and stay inmy bed again if I want, on
holiday, but what do I do withthis?
You know, what am I actuallyneeding to pray for?
What am I actually needing towork through?
And a lot of it was incounselling.
(23:53):
I realized that, a lot of stuffthat I had.
So in counselling you talkabout your critical voice I had
internalized a lot of beliefsthat simply weren't true.
And I had also.
I realized in counselling andalso just in thinking I had
internalized this is what asuccessful interpreter looks
like, and if I'm not, that Imust not be good.
(24:14):
And kind of to widen this out,I recently wrote an article for
a magazine in Germany called theFalka de Courier.
It's their conferenceinterpreters association, where
I talk about the toxic sayingsthat we have in interpreting,
such as if you're good, the workwill come Really.
So we have forgotten aboutbasic economics.
(24:36):
Now have we?
A good interpreter is fullybooked Really, or things like
you know.
There's all sorts of thingslike you know.
If you don't live in a certainconference city, then it's your
fault if you're not getting workReally.
You have to choose to live inthe right place for your work
(24:59):
Really, and so we create aculture.
I don't know so much about otherforms of interpreting, but I've
encountered cultures.
I've encountered reallysupportive interpreters.
But I've also encountered aculture in parts of conference
interpreting where people areblamed for their own weaknesses,
and I came across an articlerecently that said if you're
(25:19):
feeling imposter syndrome, itmeans nothing to do with you, it
means that you're in a hostileenvironment.
Oh, wow.
And suddenly I realised well,if I'm feeling like I'm doing
rubbish at this, it probablysays.
It maybe says something aboutme because I don't have whatever
the skills and I can get thoseskills, but it doesn't say
anything about my value as aperson.
(25:40):
If I'm allowing my externalcircumstances to affect my value
as a person, it means that I'vestarted believing a bunch of
nonsense that I'm allowing toframe my experience, and some of
it was we all have internalisedtoxic beliefs that we've picked
up.
You don't grow up as a humanand not in internalised toxic
(26:02):
beliefs.
There's a saying I heard someonesay recently your kids are
going to go to therapy, at leastmake sure they have interesting
stories.
It's not in the negative viewof parenting, but there we go.
But let's assume that we've allinternalised some critical
voice, toxic thinking, somewhere.
Well, that means that we can.
(26:25):
Two people can see the samecircumstance and see it
completely differently, and wecan tell people these are the
decisions that you have to maketo succeed as an interpreter.
Or we can ask why is ourprofession so heavily weighted
towards a certain kind of careerand a certain kind of person?
If, for example, you want to bein a city that isn't massively
(26:47):
expensive and you want to havechildren, confidence
interpreting seems to try topush you away from that kind of
thinking.
So are there opportunitiesoutside of the big cities?
The answer is yes, but thatmeans that you have to do
something that's not the same aseveryone else is doing, and I
(27:08):
realized the standard conferenceinterpreter career path of Move
to Paris, brussels, washington,work for the big governments
and institutions was never goingto be me and I had to pick a
career path that was about me,that was going to suit for me.
And that didn't mean that I waswrong or that I was a bad
(27:29):
interpreter.
It just meant this is who I am.
And I think the more I realizedthat a lot of the things that
we say about interpreting areactually toxic, the more I
realized I can build this my way.
I don't have to do it that way,because that way is for a
certain kind of interpreting ina certain kind of city, in a
certain kind of life.
That's not the life I want tolive and that's OK.
(27:52):
We'll create a new path.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
For episode number 97 of the podcast, I had the
opportunity to invite TarencaManguino all the way from Mexico
City, and in this episode Ilearned about the story of La
Malinche.
Take a listen.
Speaker 13 (28:10):
Well, la Malinche was my booth mate during the
pandemic At least, that's how Ilike to see her because it
somehow the pandemic coincidedwith the 500 anniversary of the
fall of Mexico City, which backthen it was called Tenochtitlan,
(28:30):
and a lot of conferences, a lotof books and many, many, many
events were organized aroundthis moment in Mexican history.
But the figure, the star of allof all of this efforts, was the
(28:53):
interpreter of Cortez.
So, as a Mexican, malinche well, that's how she was called for
a long time, and it even led toan insult.
It led to a concept, a verb, soshe became somehow like the
(29:14):
epitome of how Mexicans relatewith foreign cultures.
So, being a Malinche is someonewho prefers what comes from
abroad than what you find inyour country, and this is a
concept that you find in everycountry that has gone through a
colonization process.
(29:34):
So it's very interesting as aphenomenon, but I've always felt
very uncomfortable that aninterpreter, the name of an
interpreter, is an insult in mylanguage.
So, but before that moment, Ijust had that thought cross my
(29:55):
mind, but I didn't research muchabout her until then that I
started noticing and sharing insocial media.
Oh look, they're going to talkabout Cortez's interpreter.
How interesting.
And then colleagues startedsharing with me resources that
they found along the way and Iended up having a very long list
(30:19):
of resources movies,documentaries, novels about her
and it was fascinating to seethat her story tells the story
of our profession and it is veryeasy to relate to her choices
and there are very seriousresearchers that have analyzed
(30:40):
her choices as a woman, as ahistorical character, but not
necessarily from the standpointof an interpreter.
So I found it very interestingthat in all of this
conversations you hadanthropologists, you had a
specialist in many areas ofsocial sciences, but not a
single interpreter in thosespecialized panels.
(31:02):
So I started feeling like thisis unfair.
Why are we not represented inthis conversation?
But then I realized howfascinating that all of these
people have spent their lives,years of their lives and many
hours researching what aninterpreter did 500 years ago.
(31:24):
So I decided, ok, probably it'snot that this is unfair.
This is a great opportunity tolearn about our profession and
to understand how people see usand what we have not managed to
explain about what we do.
These people are doing it forus and everything I would hear
(31:45):
about the description of thiswoman were praises, adjectives
of wonder, intelligence.
It was like, wow, they'retalking about us and they admire
everything she did.
And she was not described as atraitor, which is what this
insult means in Spanish.
(32:06):
So you give preference to theforeign culture that came after
what we had.
So and then, since this wasserious research, they told us
the story about why it became aninsult.
And it happened with theindependence, because the
(32:26):
independence movement in Mexico.
Well, what they wanted was todetach completely from Spain and
what they needed was an image,a character, someone who would
represent closeness to Spain,and that was the perfect match
the Cortez's interpreter.
So, after 200 years of Malin,since then, her name became an
(32:52):
insult, but she didn't notice.
And it was part of thisstrategy, political campaigning
against what Spain meant backthen and what the new government
or the new idea of a countrywas planning to do, which was
create something new.
And they needed a landmark.
(33:14):
Exactly exactly.
So if it worked 500 years ago,why not?
Well, of course, we are notgoing to be blamed for our
mistakes, but we wereprofessionals.
You need professionalinterpreters to make
interpreting work and she was, Iwould say, the proto
professional, the firstprofessional interpreter that we
(33:35):
had in Mexico, and I was nottold about her story when I
studied, and that was that.
It's shameful, because we havea tremendous story to tell and I
believe that the future of ourprofession also depends on how
good we tell our story and howwell we describe what happens in
(33:59):
the background, in thebackstage, because people don't
know, they only see us openingour mouths and it looks pretty
easy and we haven't managed todescribe how complex it is.
So I think that there are manyresearchers, many, many
resources out there thatdescribe Malinche in a way that
(34:21):
we haven't managed to do thesame at that level of detail.
It doesn't matter if they don'tdescribe the interpreting
process as we do, but it's thereand they respect her.
She has a very special placeand she has even become the
symbol of social movements, likein the US she represents I will
(34:44):
have to use more of your timeto define but, for example, the
Chicano movement.
For them, malinche representstheir experience and how they
feel in the middle of twocountries, and you come from one
culture, you acquire a secondone, but you are in the middle.
(35:06):
So she represents even amovement, a generation that it's
very far from when she existed,and she's an interpreter.
So we interpreters represent alot and we haven't been able to
at least not me.
Probably I'm generalizing andthat is unfair, but I think that
(35:28):
we could start using thosedescriptions of our profession
and listen.
So what I learned from thatexperience was that I needed to
listen and then I would decidewhat to do with this information
.
But it's fascinating to see howour profession is described.
(35:50):
And we didn't ask for it.
No one told this people.
Hey, this is a very interestingstory, you should explore it.
No, no, no.
Her story is fascinating enoughto keep inspire people after
500 years, and I think it's justa start, because she has
inspired so many, so many peopleto keep on learning and
(36:14):
rewriting the story of whatreally happened.
Well, I don't know if it'spossible to 100%, but at least
there are resources and she iseverywhere and she was highly
regarded 500 years ago and wetoday, interpreters, are not as
highly regarded as she was.
So we might learn a lot fromher story and just feel that gap
(36:40):
because we haven't changed thatmuch.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
This year I also had the opportunity to invite
Professor Bruce Adelson bringinginto the conversation
non-discrimination laws, butwith the specific focus in the
field of education.
Here's a clip from thatconversation.
Speaker 14 (36:57):
It's the same as in many different situations in
life.
Sometimes people will beinterested in what you have to
say.
Sometimes people won't give ablank what you have to say and
OK, well then, what do you do?
And, as you know, I'm a bigadvocacy person.
I'm a big believer in you.
(37:17):
The rights that we have don'texist unless we use them.
Now, not everybody knows whatthe rights are, and I understand
that.
That's a challenge too, but Iwould challenge folks,
particularly in the educationsetting, that we're dealing with
children and, as parents orguardians, we need to be
(37:41):
involved with what's happeningin our kids' schools.
Conversely, the schooldistricts, the teachers, the
administrators If I'm a teacherand I'm sitting in a conference
with a 12-year-old and a parentwho doesn't speak English, you
would think that something wouldclick in my head that wait a
minute.
He's not speaking English, sohow he can't understand what I'm
(38:06):
saying.
You would think that I wouldlike to think that there are
teachers who actively feel thatway.
But sometimes it's a matter ofgoing to the board of education
and even going to individualmembers of the school board and
telling them you get $5 milliona year for the federal
(38:28):
government.
You are required to provide X.
You don't do that and we have alarge LEP population who speaks
Tagalog, who speaks Spanish,who speak Italian, but we're not
addressing that and we need to.
So sometimes you can get alarger conversation going just
(38:50):
by doing it that way.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Season six also brought us the episode entitled
the dark side of interpreting.
In it we delve into the realmof human trafficking, and this
particular guest, Richard Aviles, talks about what it's like
interpreting for such cases.
Take a listen.
Speaker 15 (39:10):
And it was terrifying man.
Because what most people don'tunderstand is that that's child
trafficking.
What that's called is child wartrafficking is what that's
called and that happens in thisworld.
That's happening right now inIndia, that's happening right
now in Afghanistan, it'shappening right now in Iraq,
(39:31):
it's happening in Africa, it'shappening in places in Central
and South America where theytake kids and they basically
indoctrinate them into some sortof extreme behavior.
I mean, you know, I told youabout the kid that was from Mara
Salvatrucha and he was 13.
He was just 13 and he hadalready killed people because
(39:56):
they took him from his house andthey were like we need the
oldest kid and you know that'scalled right there.
A child soldier is what that'scalled, and it's one of the
types of human trafficking thatyou have right.
So you have child trafficking,sex trafficking, servitude,
(40:16):
right, or indefinite servitudealso, which is like debt or
forced labor.
You have Oregon trafficking andthen you have child soldiers,
right.
What people don't understand isthat all of those things have
the same processes to get to itright, like when we talk about
(40:40):
human trafficking.
People don't understand whathuman trafficking is.
It's actions plus means, pluspurpose equals trafficking.
Your actions by recruiting,harboring, transporting, hiding,
patronizing, abusing, moving.
Recruiting, that's the process.
Right by the means of force,coercing, abusing any other bad
(41:09):
thing, coercing right With thepurpose of either a commercial
sex act or a labor or service ofsome sort.
That's it.
That's the two things that youcan put them to.
That equals human trafficking.
When you have all of thosethree things combined and when I
teach it right, I teach it likea math formula.
(41:30):
I teach it like either processmeans ends right Equals
trafficking, or actions meanspurpose equals trafficking.
That's what human traffickingis.
That's why I tell people likethe probability that you've ran
into someone that's done that ishigher than you think, higher,
way higher than you think.
The problem is is that we don'tlook around.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
The following clip is a bit of the conversation with
Hemi Periani from the episodeAcross Continents and Cultures.
Speaker 16 (42:02):
This profession, like doctors, it comes from
heart.
You have to feel it, you haveto sense it.
The doctors feel the pain ofthe patient.
That's why they can diagnoseand they understand.
And, of course, the sciencebehind it.
And this profession also hasscience as well, the science of
(42:22):
communication and humanrelations.
So you have to like people.
Yeah, please, and yeah.
If you put the money beforepeople, then this is not a good
route to go.
I suggest pick something else.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
At some point of our interpreting career, whether
that be in the beginning or inthe middle, we may stop to think
about why we do what we do, whydo we want to do the work or
why should we continue to dothis work, which is why I very
much appreciated my conversationthis season with Dr Sophia
Garcia-Beyer on the essence ofinterpreting.
Speaker 17 (43:03):
Well, okay, so maybe I'll start by reading the
definition that was reachedafter group discussion, right,
because this was a result ofteamwork, as I mentioned, when
we did this textbook, we met sooften and we all impacted each
(43:23):
other's way of thinking of thecontent that we were creating.
And the definition forcommunicative autonomy that we
landed on, I will read, is thecapacity of each party in an
encounter to be responsible forand in control of his or her own
communication.
What this is trying to say is,when the interpreter is called
(43:49):
to provide a service, theinterpreter's mandate is to help
people own their owncommunicative process, and for
that the parties that areinvolved in that encounter need
to have their own voice, andbecause of the language barrier,
that's a challenge.
(44:10):
So when they send messages, ifthe interpreter is people who
love conveying those messagesaccurately, reliably, then the
interpreter is supportingcommunicative autonomy.
But there's also the other side.
When the interpreter is makingsure that the messages that are
directed or expressed in theroom directed to that party or
expressed in the room are alsoconveyed, then you can fully be
(44:35):
an owner of your communicativeprocess.
So supporting communicativeautonomy is facilitated in
communication, but facilitatingcommunication could also mean
having a part in thatcommunication.
Oh, let me explain.
You just misunderstood.
This is what they meant.
That is not supportingcommunicative autonomy.
(44:55):
So in that way I wanted to finda way to express this in a more
precise way.
And some people will not agreewith the fact that communicative
autonomy is the specialcontribution of the community
interpreting profession, but forthose of us who do agree, I
(45:16):
think it helps to have a way ofnaming it that is unequivocal.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Episode 102 of season six, Bradas Gabriela Vocanete,
with the topic the Art ofSelf-Care for Interpreters.
Speaker 18 (45:32):
So as soon as the conference started, she just
froze.
She froze completely.
She couldn't utter any kind ofword or sentences.
So I continued working untilthe break and then I had to take
her to quiet corner and say,look, it's difficult for
(45:56):
everybody, but we have to do ourbest because it's not the
delegates fault that we couldn'tprepare.
So we do our best, breathe,come down and just do your best.
So then later on she did,actually she did, and it was
okay, but she had frozen becauseshe was not used to this level
(46:20):
of technical medical information.
And you know, when the speakercomes and says I've prepared
this for it's a three hourpresentation, but I'm going to
rush through it because we onlyhave half an hour, no, that
never happened, something likethat.
So those moments, thosespeakers, I was doing and she
(46:43):
was doing the more normal onesand it was good.
In the end it wasn't a success,but there was this moment of,
you know, the nervous system,the human nervous system, like
any mammals, we have this restand digest, which is the
parasympathetic and mode of ournervous system.
(47:06):
And then we have fight, flightor freeze.
So the freeze is the worst.
We never want to have that kindof in other mammals, like the
gazelle, for example.
When she's chased by a big catand she's caught, the nervous
(47:29):
system shuts down because thenatural evolution has made it so
that the animal doesn't sufferall that pain.
So you freeze and then you'retotally disconnected because
otherwise it would be anenormous amount of pain.
(47:49):
Nature is wise like that andnature tries to avoid.
So in the human the freezereaction is you go blank, you go
blank, you freeze, you can'tfind your words and you can't
think straight and you alsodisconnect from the neck down.
It's a whole body reaction.
(48:11):
Huh, yes, so that's whathappened to my colleague.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
This year, the world of remote interpreting, more
specifically, community remoteinterpreters, experienced the
publication of a textbook thatis very specific for remote
interpreters and communitysettings.
Volume one of the remoteinterpreter was published this
year and I had the incredibleopportunity to speak with the
(48:37):
authors here on the show abouttheir experience working
together for its creation.
Here's a clip from thatconversation.
Speaker 19 (48:44):
The personal and individual stories are, you know
, of course, what we treasureand carry with us.
But actually, for me, I've beenin this profession long enough
to have seen some of thespecializations found both get
founded and then develop intowhat we consider developed to
some degree right.
So I came into this professionat the beginning of the really
(49:06):
the professionalization and theformalization of healthcare
interpreting.
I came in as an educationalinterpreter.
I mean, that was where I firstdid most of my early, you know,
before ethics before anything.
Then I spent, you know, 25years helping focusing on the
healthcare interpreting side ofbuild itself, only to now see
educational interpreting, right,you know, be in a very similar
(49:30):
moment and actually now have aperspective that I did not have
25 years ago.
That, oh my gosh.
You know, small groups ofpeople working really hard on
these foundational pieces of aprofession can make change
happen fast, right, and I wouldmake legitimate.
Like it really helped turnsomething that's kind of a, as
(49:50):
we've been talking about, a very, very demess, you know, into
something more formalized androbust and credible, and so I
give that as framing.
Like this is a small group ofpeople who have a broad, you
know, variety of background, theright kind of background, and
our goal for me, certainly mygoal for this textbook is that
it be one of those foundationalpieces that can get us away from
(50:14):
language service companieshaving the burden of training
interpreters because there is noexpected norm or set of norms
you know across the board for itwhen you're working remotely,
to actually having.
Hey, here's a first stab atstandardization.
Take it, improve it, use it,create guidelines.
(50:35):
I hope professionalassociations pay attention to it
, not just the people who areworking in, you know, in the
interpreted moment right.
So I know that's a littlegrandiose, but, like to me,
that's 100% what I hope thisvolume and what the second
volume will lead to, that 10years from now we'll look back
and go look, we have all thesetraining programs on remote
interpreting and they all kindof agree on the content and they
(50:58):
have agreement about what theskill set is and what should be
included in it.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Season 6 gave us more interpreter stories, more
challenges that we could learnfrom, more experiences and
knowledge that was shared, andit's all made possible thanks to
the willingness of the gueststhat come on the show to share
their story publicly.
And, of course, it goes beyondsaying that.
(51:25):
The podcast wouldn't be what itis today without the support of
you, the listener, coming backeach and every episode to hear
the stories of the individualsbehind the scenes.
Like these stories, there areso many other stories out there
of interpreters and languageprofessionals in the world
(51:45):
wanting to share their knowledgeand their experiences, and I'm
hoping that that continues to besomething that I am able to
share for the next season.
I really hope that this seasonbrought you some sort of
motivation, learning experienceor inspiration about the work
that we do.
(52:05):
Brand the Interpreter was bornfrom a desire to highlight the
stories of languageprofessionals from around the
world, and I'm ever so gratefulthat you continue to come back
to support the show and gratefulfor the guests that are willing
to come and share their storieson this specific platform.
As it is the case at the closeof each and every season, I'd
(52:29):
like to ask that you pleaseshare the podcast on your social
media platforms for others tobe able to experience perhaps
what you've experienced theexposure of the stories of
language professionals fromaround the world, the
connections, the relatednesspotentially that you may
(52:50):
experience from your own storywith the stories of others out
in the field.
I also ask that you considerrating and reviewing the show if
you have not done so already,and if you have potentially
request or ask, then anothercolleague do the same.
These help the podcast, ofcourse, but it also helps to
(53:11):
support me as your host and theguests that are willing to come
on the show.
Brandy interpreter has had theopportunity to interview over
100 guests.
Now, if I put that intoperspective or potentially you
joined me into putting that intoperspective if we were in a
room filled with 100 individuals, I personally would feel
(53:36):
overwhelmed.
I would feel that it is a roomfull of people that have stories
, stories that are very specificto the industry, stories that
they are willing to share andmake public for others to listen
to, for potentially the newgeneration of language
(53:57):
professionals to be inspired by,to learn a little bit more and
to simply leave a mark in theindustry about their story
within the profession.
So when you leave a rating or areview.
It's more than a vanity metric.
What it really is is thesupport of me, first and
(54:19):
foremost, as your host, to knowthat the work that is being
produced and published isaccepted by you, the
interpreting community, but alsofor future guests.
It supports them, so when thatthey search Brandy interpreter
and before they accept aninvitation of mine, they can see
(54:42):
the work that has been outthere and what listeners think
about the show.
So it's just a continuous wayof being able to support one
another within the industry thatsupports us Since the start of
the podcast in 2020, I, at theend of the year, will take a
break from production andrestart the new season in
(55:07):
February.
I encourage you to catch upduring that time to some of the
stories that were shared thatmaybe you weren't able to listen
to when they were published.
And if you're a new listener,it's a great time to go back to
the beginning of the podcast tolisten to some of those stories
(55:29):
way in the beginning of time,three years ago, when the
podcast was first born, andlisten to the stories of the
first guests that were on theshow.
And while the year 2023 comesto a close, and so does season
six of Brandy interpreter.
Brandy interpreter podcast willcontinue its season next year
(55:52):
with even more great stories,and I'll let you in on a little
secret, but only if you promisenot to tell anyone.
Next year's season will bring ina new format to the stories
that are being shared, so it's acompletely new production and
I'm super excited to be able toshare it with you all I know.
So exciting, right?
I mean I'm definitely excited.
(56:14):
So make sure that you subscribeto the podcast on whatever
application you listen from, sothat it reminds you when episode
one of season seven drops nextyear.
And with that, dear listener,this is your host, mireya Perez,
signing off from season six ofthe Brandy interpreter podcast,
(56:35):
the podcast that shares yourstories about our profession.
Till next time.
It's the last episode of the year here at Brand the
Interpreter Podcast, and whatthat means is a year in recap of
all the amazing guests thatwe've had on the show this 2023.
What I do is take thehighlights of my conversations
with the guests and put them allin a bite-sized production just
for you.
It's actually one of myfavorite things to do at the end
(00:21):
of the year, because it helpsremind me about all the great
conversations that I hadthroughout the year and in the
end, it becomes this collage ofinterpreter challenges, insights
, growth, learning experiences.
It basically forms a story, ourstory, the story of language
(00:44):
professionals from differentcorners of the world all in one
platform.
I began 2023 with wanting tokick off the year with
interpreter self-care, and forthat I invited Francisca, or
Manna as her friend's callerOsez with mindful interpreting.
Take a listen.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
My teacher, mr Juan Curilem, which I really
appreciate.
So shout out to you, mr Juan,if you ever listen to this.
So he taught us a way in whichwe didn't necessarily need to be
identified with the speaker orwith the character.
We didn't need to be identifiedso it isn't myself, but I could
be as if I was the person.
(01:29):
I think that has protected alot of my mental health, because
if you say to yourself, okay,this is going to be as if I was
this person, but I'm notactually this person.
I have my own things, but I'mgoing to be as if I was this
person.
So this person is upset, she'sangry, or he is worried because
(01:51):
of some health outcome, or youdon't know actually, but if you
present yourself as a personthat is available, that is
willing to receive that message,then you can portray it.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I don't think I have ever gone an episode without me
myself having learned somethingthroughout the conversation with
the guest.
So I share the episodes and theconversations with you in hopes
that you also encounter thesame experience, that is, that
you too also encounter somelevel of growth or some level of
(02:25):
higher understanding about atopic that maybe yesterday you
didn't know much about.
The episode the linguisticminority with Sarah Baker, also
taking place at the beginning ofthis year, is an example of
such a moment in which my mindexpanded because I learned just
a little bit more about the deafcommunity.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I remember when I lived in New Jersey that's where
I was born and my mom hadbrought me over to my quote
unquote aunt Charlotte's houseand aunt Charlotte was deaf, and
so we were in her apartment andwe were there just visiting,
enjoying some snacks, coffee,etc.
And I remember sitting there onher couch and this was probably
(03:06):
back in the early 2000s, soperhaps 2002 and on her couch I
was sitting and all of a suddenthe room just lights up.
Where the lamp is flashing,next to me, the TV is flashing
and I thought what in the world,what is this?
And she reaches for her remoteand she presses a button and an
(03:27):
interpreter pops up on hertelevision screen and, of course
, me being about 11 years old atthe time, I was thinking whoa,
what is this?
So that was her video phone call, and back in the early 2000s,
that's how deaf people were ableto communicate on the telephone
.
So it was brand new technologyat the time.
In the early 2000s, videophones, or, as we call them, vps
(03:51):
, were being installed in deafhomes.
So that's how she was able tohave access, to be able to
communicate via telephone.
So I believe it was a call thatcame in and saying her
prescription was ready forpickup at the pharmacy or
something like that.
So yeah, that was my firstexposure to what's called video
relay service.
So instead of hearing the phoneringing, you can see the lights
(04:13):
blinking.
That's part of deaf culture.
That's how they do it at home.
That's where a teacher canflick the lights in the
classroom to get the student'sattention.
A nurse walking into a deafpatient's hospital room can
flick the light switch in orderfor the deaf patient to look
toward the door.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
In 2023, I invited Eulogio Spinoza to speak about
Indigenous interpreting.
Here's a highlight of thatconversation.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
The Mistecco language , the one I do there's a lot
more variant.
If those that have heard aboutMistecco, they often may be hear
about Mistecco Alto, misteccoBajo, mistecco de la Costa or
Mistecco de Guerrero.
So that's only four variants,right, but the reality is
there's about more than 86variants of the Mistecco
(05:00):
language and it's not aone-size-fits-all, so one
Mistecco is not going to becompatible with all those 86
variants.
So categorizing the languagegoes back to the anthropologist
that went to Oaxaca and therewas the one that categorized it.
We don't have the map to showyou right now but there's sort
(05:25):
of the upper higher which wouldnorth west.
I guess that would be sort ofthe Mistecco Bajo and then sort
of to the central south ofOaxaca.
That would be what is known asAlto.
But even then the community ofthe south don't call their
Mistecco Bajo or Mistecco Alto.
And when they do call ormention their Mistecco being
(05:48):
Bajo, that was because eithersomeone else have already told
them that that is their language.
But the reality is theirMistecco is going to be from
their hometown or from theirdistrict.
For example, my Mistecco isconsidered as Mistecco Bajo.
But the way I always say is Ispeak Mistecco from somewhat
penis.
Here in the US we call themtribes or nation tribal nations,
(06:12):
and in Mexico we call them asindigenous groups.
We don't use the word tribe.
So the Mistecco is the regionis in Oaxaca, guerrero and in
Puebla, so it covers quite somespace around that area.
So we aren't direct descendantof the Nawaz or the Aztecs, but
(06:33):
rather they were a differentindigenous group, although the
Aztecs did conquer most of thesouth of Mexico, what we know as
Mexico today, and so they did,I guess, essentially conquer the
Mistecco and most of Oaxaca.
But we are a differentindigenous group from them.
So after enough we hear inMexico, or all the Mexicans,
(06:57):
they're proud to be Aztecs, andalthough that is true for most.
But there are different othergroups of indigenous in Mexico.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
This year I also had the incredible opportunity to
speak with a team of doctorsfrom Seattle Children's Hospital
.
Authors of the commentary.
Language matters why we shouldreconsider the term limited
English proficiency.
I remember concluding thatconversation feeling very
enlightened and feeling full,and what I mean by that is, you
(07:28):
know, that feeling ofsatisfaction when you eat a
delicious and good meal andyou're just happy and full.
That's how I felt, but for mymind.
My mind felt full and satisfied.
I had the opportunity to havesuch great guests on the show
and be able to fill my mind witheven more knowledge.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
You know, when we focus in that way on limitations
, it changes the way we thinkabout what we as the clinicians
are sort of doing.
Right, it makes it seem likethey need something extra and
different from me, rather thanit being part of that normal
(08:10):
frame where, rather than itactually being about like, well,
I don't speak Vietnamese, so,just like I'm not a cardiologist
and if I need cardiologyexpertise, I'm going to, you
know, talk with my cardiologistcolleagues who have specialized
knowledge and training in thatfield, right.
And similarly, if I have afamily that speaks Vietnamese,
(08:32):
then I need to actually pull ina colleague with specialized
training for that.
But that's not how we thinkabout it.
When we frame the family asbeing limited, that makes it
seem like, well, they're lackingsomething and then, well,
there's something I could doextra to try to address that,
but I'll do it if I have time orI'll do it if you know, but
(08:54):
it's going to put me out Right.
And so I think there's a reallyimportant way and we don't
think about like none of it'sconscious, but I think there are
really important ways that whenwe're framing it as like a real
deficit in the family, itchanges our whole relationship
to how we respond to it?
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Yeah, I was just going to add to that that that
is felt and experienced by ourpatients and their families too.
Like they feel, then, that theyare the ones that are deficient
, that they aren't bringingsomething to the table and that
because of that that they aren'tgoing to get good enough care,
(09:30):
and that is really negative.
You know, that perpetuateschallenges in providing
excellent care, because they'reperceiving our deficiency as
their deficiency, because we'vecreated a system that makes them
perceive that, and part of whychanging the system level of how
we approach this is soimportant, because it's not just
(09:52):
me changing the words I use orDr Yeboah changing the words she
uses.
It's actually changing how weas a system approach patients
who speak languages other thanEnglish, so that the deficiency
isn't internalized by them whenthey are receiving care in our
institutions.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
The thing that I would add on to that is that
actually part of the process ofchanging the language that's
used throughout SeattleChildren's from LEP to language
other than English involvedtalking to community members and
they told us these things right.
They told us, yes, it feelsstigmatizing, it feels bad, it
(10:33):
feels like I'm a burden, and wewere then able to run by and
probably jumping the gun here,but we were able to run by a
number of different alternateterminologies and get community
input and I think that's justsuch a crucial piece of
understanding, like what we sayabout patients and families.
(10:54):
They hear and they feel, and wehear and we feel, and it
changes everything about how weinteract with them.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Advocacy for language justice is a career in and of
itself.
This year, I had theopportunity to speak with Dr
Bill Rivers.
He shared with us more abouthis career trajectory and, of
course, about his languageaccess efforts.
Speaker 7 (11:17):
People who want to discriminate are not dumb enough
to do it.
You know disparate treatment.
They're not dumb enough to comeright out and say it right but
they'll say oh well, you have tobe, you know.
So the the the way disparateimpact actually evolved as
illegal doctrine is in my memoryAt least.
I could be mistaken, I'm alinguist, not lawyer.
Could be mistating us is thatonce the civil rights act was
(11:39):
passed, and there were alsogender discrimination provisions
in there too, fire departmentsand police departments would say
, oh, you have to be five footnine to apply, or you have to be
able to do X number of pull-upsto apply.
Well, who does thatdiscriminate against?
And it's women, right, becausethe average woman is several
inches shorter than the averageman and most women can't do the
(11:59):
same number of pull-ups that aman can.
So there was other case lawfrom the Supreme Court that said
no, you can't.
You can't hide yourdiscrimination by coming up with
some broader category.
That's disparate impact.
Disparate treatment is when yousingle out a category.
Disparate impact is when youcome up with some overall term
or some some mechanism todiscriminate.
(12:21):
Not providing language accessis generally disparate impact.
And what the Clinton executiveorder did is, it said if it's
disparate treatment, you can suewhoever's saying no, irish need
apply, but it's disparateimpact.
You have to go file a civilrights complaint with the
cognizant regional office ofcivil rights.
(12:44):
So if this entity is funded bythe Department of Education, you
file with the regionalDepartment of Education office
of civil rights.
Or if it's, if it's a medicalyou know, if it's funded by
Medicare and Medicaid etc.
Then you file with the regionalDHHS office of civil rights.
Now that has a good side and abad side.
The bad side is that a lot ofimmigrant folks may not know
(13:05):
their rights, may not know howto Assert their rights and may
not not know how to file acomplaint, or they may not want
to, as we talked before, may notwant to file a complaint with
the government.
That's the downside.
The upside is and this wasexplained to me by the Attorney
General of the state of Marylandat the time when I was doing a
statewide needs assessment andwas Talking this through with
(13:28):
him and my salad days I was muchyounger and and he says well,
you know, and I was, why can't Isue if?
If it's disparate impacts?
Well, if you, if it's disparatetreatment, you can, you know,
sue as much as you want.
How much money you got, you'regonna sue the state of Maryland.
How much money you got, howlong can you last?
But if you file a civil rightscomplaint, the federal
(13:49):
government's gonna investigateand sue the state of Maryland
and and that means there will bea settlement right, because the
federal government hasessentially limitless
Investigatory and and litigationresources this year I also had
the amazing opportunity To speakwith professor Holly Mickelson.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Here's a clip of our conversation.
Speaker 9 (14:14):
As far as translation goes, machine translation has
really made a difference and ithasn't eliminated human
translators.
I don't think that voicerecognition and machine
Artificial intelligence is goingto replace interpreters either.
I think it's going to changethe settings in which
(14:36):
interpreting takes place.
It's going to change howinterpreters do their jobs, but
there's always going to be aneed for human input, especially
with the varieties of languagethat Community interpreters deal
with.
You're dealing with people fromall over in our case, the
(14:57):
Spanish speaking world, peoplewho have not had a strong formal
education, who speaknon-standard language, and it's
harder for artificialintelligence, I think, to to
figure that kind of thing out.
It does.
I mean, it is amazing how muchartificial intelligence can do
(15:20):
and it's just getting better andbetter.
I think Google translate andDeep-L and all those machine
translation products haveimproved tremendously, but they
still need some human input.
So I'm glad it's making thehumans more productive and it's
(15:40):
spreading accessibility.
So I think it's a good thing,but we have to adapt and people
have to Be in on the groundfloor to make sure that it is
used properly and not abused.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
The beauty about our profession is that there are
many different angles throughwhich we can focus on and expand
on what we do.
This next clip is from theepisode entitled communicative
equity with Dr Dominic Ledesma.
Speaker 8 (16:08):
But one of the ways that I saw myself as a trained
language professional, but alsoin a in a degree program for
educational leadership, was,like I was thinking, is that we
also need, you know, empiricalresearch.
We also need empirical research,and this is one way that I saw
myself being able to contributesomething To our profession and
the work that still needs to getdone.
(16:29):
And so but don't get me wrong,though like the purpose of
seeing Research or this, this orthis dissertation, you know, as
a way to do that, the purposeis not to intellectualize the
profession.
The purpose is to be able toLook at these issues from a
different way, to refine ourlanguage what do we call that?
(16:51):
When that happens, or how canwe talk about this?
And embedded within there, it'snot just about developing new
terms, but really trying to beable to articulate the
strategies that can work andlead toward more bi-directional,
equitable communications andbilateral relations between
English dominant and non Englishdominant populations, in
(17:11):
particular in public servinginstitutions, where language
access policy mandates are areal thing and apply here's
Jesse Lu on the episode.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
A respected profession.
Speaker 10 (17:23):
Well, I feel that a lot of us who are in this
profession Is that we realizehow impactful and how powerful
the result of our work can be.
It not only bridges the gap, itreally it empowers people,
because we send informationalong with the language and we
(17:47):
sent meaning along.
So, given this importance andthis trust, it is not to be
taken lightly and Obviously.
When we work in this profession, when we give our time, when we
Spend time to make sure we arealways Up to date with what is
happening around us in ourcommunity, and we spent time to
(18:09):
make sure that we're alwayssharpened with our language
skills, we deserve to be paidwell and we deserve the respect.
You know, I don't appreciate howpeople don't understand what
our jobs entail.
They think that we are somehowbecause we speak two languages
(18:34):
and they just tell us tell mewhat this one says, tell me what
that says.
No, I cannot tell you what itsays, not without reading it
first.
It's almost like people don'tunderstand how we work and I
wish there could be more effortsin educating the public, making
sure they understand that we'renot walking dictionaries.
(18:58):
We are human and we areextremely talented human beings.
And not only we're extremelytalented.
We have a big heart.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I was blown away by the determination of this next
guest this year of becoming aninterpreter despite the fact
that she was born blind.
Take a listen.
Speaker 11 (19:22):
Number one cut through the red tape at the
testing centers and make surethat people get the
accommodations they asked for asclose as you can get.
So, for instance, anothertotally blind friend of mine in
the field of computer sciencehad indicated to the testing
agency okay, I need a reader tosit at the computer and read me
(19:45):
the written test and click themouse.
He showed up and they said, oh,we've got a great big monitor
for you and he said I'm totallyblind, it's not gonna help me.
So he'd probably already paidthe testing fee and ended up
having to cancel last minutebecause the inappropriate
accommodations were in place.
The testing centers make metake a picture of a Braille
(20:06):
tablet or a Braille display orsomething that I am much more,
as I say, efficient at using,and they see a keyboard they
don't recognize and they say, oh, you can't use this.
So the testing centers need toeducate themselves about what is
out there, about the fact thatmost Braille displays are slave
(20:28):
devices, which means they pluginto a computer and work through
a screen reader.
Nowadays some Braille displayshave a scratchpad function, but
again there's a way to turn thatoff.
So that's huge.
I actually know of a fellowinterpreter who requested a
(20:51):
reader and I don't know how theygot Armenian interpreter out of
reader, but this very niceArmenian interpreter ended up
reading her the test.
You know, if I had my druthers,I would love testing centers to
have screen reading technologyon board that was kept up to
date, at at least one computerper regional site at a minimum.
(21:15):
Same for magnification software, same for if a dyslexic person
needs Kurzweil 3000, a scan andread program.
You know, whatever People, justthey need to try to learn about
what's out there and that.
No, I am not going to go into atesting environment and try to
(21:36):
cheat or something.
That's just not who I am and Iunderstand the logic of why
certain technologies are notallowed in, but if people you
know, after I took thecertification exam, for instance
, someone was able to take itwith an iPad and I said, wait a
minute, that's not entirely fairbecause I was made to bring in
(21:58):
a slight and stylus.
Yeah, so that's the huge piece.
The other piece, which Iactually had the pleasure and
honor to participate in in thebeginning, was one of the folks
who was really in charge of theCNI NBCMI exam, reached out to
me and said could you help talkus through?
(22:21):
You know, could you get to knowthese other candidates with
visual impairment, see whatthey're going to need, and we'll
schedule a time and you, I andthe candidate will meet and
we'll talk through potentialaccommodations.
And I did get to help a fewpeople and that was really
amazing.
That's amazing, but I cannottell you how frustrating it is
(22:43):
to deal with a testing center,not just a proctor the proctor
were really great but the actualoverseeing testing agency, like
Prometric or something, andthey don't have a clue what I
need.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
This year's most downloaded episode belongs to Dr
Jonathan Downey, with theepisode entitled Thriving as an
Interpreter Amid AI Advancements.
Here's a clip of thatconversation.
Speaker 12 (23:12):
So I got to I'm struggling with my mental health
, panic stations, you know, bigred light.
Oops, this is trouble.
And it was the fear of havingpoor mental health that was
keeping me in the pit that I wasin this time.
I realized, okay, I've beenkind of here before, this isn't
fun.
(23:32):
And I did all the blamingmyself fairly quickly you know,
you must be a bad interpreterblah, blah, blah.
And then I came out to well,what do I do?
You know, I can sit and stay inmy bed again if I want, on
holiday, but what do I do withthis?
You know, what am I actuallyneeding to pray for?
What am I actually needing towork through?
And a lot of it was incounselling.
(23:53):
I realized that, a lot of stuffthat I had.
So in counselling you talkabout your critical voice I had
internalized a lot of beliefsthat simply weren't true.
And I had also.
I realized in counselling andalso just in thinking I had
internalized this is what asuccessful interpreter looks
like, and if I'm not, that Imust not be good.
(24:14):
And kind of to widen this out,I recently wrote an article for
a magazine in Germany called theFalka de Courier.
It's their conferenceinterpreters association, where
I talk about the toxic sayingsthat we have in interpreting,
such as if you're good, the workwill come Really.
So we have forgotten aboutbasic economics.
(24:36):
Now have we?
A good interpreter is fullybooked Really, or things like
you know.
There's all sorts of thingslike you know.
If you don't live in a certainconference city, then it's your
fault if you're not getting workReally.
You have to choose to live inthe right place for your work
(24:59):
Really, and so we create aculture.
I don't know so much about otherforms of interpreting, but I've
encountered cultures.
I've encountered reallysupportive interpreters.
But I've also encountered aculture in parts of conference
interpreting where people areblamed for their own weaknesses,
and I came across an articlerecently that said if you're
(25:19):
feeling imposter syndrome, itmeans nothing to do with you, it
means that you're in a hostileenvironment.
Oh, wow.
And suddenly I realised well,if I'm feeling like I'm doing
rubbish at this, it probablysays.
It maybe says something aboutme because I don't have whatever
the skills and I can get thoseskills, but it doesn't say
anything about my value as aperson.
(25:40):
If I'm allowing my externalcircumstances to affect my value
as a person, it means that I'vestarted believing a bunch of
nonsense that I'm allowing toframe my experience, and some of
it was we all have internalisedtoxic beliefs that we've picked
up.
You don't grow up as a humanand not in internalised toxic
(26:02):
beliefs.
There's a saying I heard someonesay recently your kids are
going to go to therapy, at leastmake sure they have interesting
stories.
It's not in the negative viewof parenting, but there we go.
But let's assume that we've allinternalised some critical
voice, toxic thinking, somewhere.
Well, that means that we can.
(26:25):
Two people can see the samecircumstance and see it
completely differently, and wecan tell people these are the
decisions that you have to maketo succeed as an interpreter.
Or we can ask why is ourprofession so heavily weighted
towards a certain kind of careerand a certain kind of person?
If, for example, you want to bein a city that isn't massively
(26:47):
expensive and you want to havechildren, confidence
interpreting seems to try topush you away from that kind of
thinking.
So are there opportunitiesoutside of the big cities?
The answer is yes, but thatmeans that you have to do
something that's not the same aseveryone else is doing, and I
(27:08):
realized the standard conferenceinterpreter career path of Move
to Paris, brussels, washington,work for the big governments
and institutions was never goingto be me and I had to pick a
career path that was about me,that was going to suit for me.
And that didn't mean that I waswrong or that I was a bad
(27:29):
interpreter.
It just meant this is who I am.
And I think the more I realizedthat a lot of the things that
we say about interpreting areactually toxic, the more I
realized I can build this my way.
I don't have to do it that way,because that way is for a
certain kind of interpreting ina certain kind of city, in a
certain kind of life.
That's not the life I want tolive and that's OK.
(27:52):
We'll create a new path.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
For episode number 97 of the podcast, I had the
opportunity to invite TarencaManguino all the way from Mexico
City, and in this episode Ilearned about the story of La
Malinche.
Take a listen.
Speaker 13 (28:10):
Well, la Malinche was my booth mate during the
pandemic At least, that's how Ilike to see her because it
somehow the pandemic coincidedwith the 500 anniversary of the
fall of Mexico City, which backthen it was called Tenochtitlan,
(28:30):
and a lot of conferences, a lotof books and many, many, many
events were organized aroundthis moment in Mexican history.
But the figure, the star of allof all of this efforts, was the
(28:53):
interpreter of Cortez.
So, as a Mexican, malinche well, that's how she was called for
a long time, and it even led toan insult.
It led to a concept, a verb, soshe became somehow like the
(29:14):
epitome of how Mexicans relatewith foreign cultures.
So, being a Malinche is someonewho prefers what comes from
abroad than what you find inyour country, and this is a
concept that you find in everycountry that has gone through a
colonization process.
(29:34):
So it's very interesting as aphenomenon, but I've always felt
very uncomfortable that aninterpreter, the name of an
interpreter, is an insult in mylanguage.
So, but before that moment, Ijust had that thought cross my
(29:55):
mind, but I didn't research muchabout her until then that I
started noticing and sharing insocial media.
Oh look, they're going to talkabout Cortez's interpreter.
How interesting.
And then colleagues startedsharing with me resources that
they found along the way and Iended up having a very long list
(30:19):
of resources movies,documentaries, novels about her
and it was fascinating to seethat her story tells the story
of our profession and it is veryeasy to relate to her choices
and there are very seriousresearchers that have analyzed
(30:40):
her choices as a woman, as ahistorical character, but not
necessarily from the standpointof an interpreter.
So I found it very interestingthat in all of this
conversations you hadanthropologists, you had a
specialist in many areas ofsocial sciences, but not a
single interpreter in thosespecialized panels.
(31:02):
So I started feeling like thisis unfair.
Why are we not represented inthis conversation?
But then I realized howfascinating that all of these
people have spent their lives,years of their lives and many
hours researching what aninterpreter did 500 years ago.
(31:24):
So I decided, ok, probably it'snot that this is unfair.
This is a great opportunity tolearn about our profession and
to understand how people see usand what we have not managed to
explain about what we do.
These people are doing it forus and everything I would hear
(31:45):
about the description of thiswoman were praises, adjectives
of wonder, intelligence.
It was like, wow, they'retalking about us and they admire
everything she did.
And she was not described as atraitor, which is what this
insult means in Spanish.
(32:06):
So you give preference to theforeign culture that came after
what we had.
So and then, since this wasserious research, they told us
the story about why it became aninsult.
And it happened with theindependence, because the
(32:26):
independence movement in Mexico.
Well, what they wanted was todetach completely from Spain and
what they needed was an image,a character, someone who would
represent closeness to Spain,and that was the perfect match
the Cortez's interpreter.
So, after 200 years of Malin,since then, her name became an
(32:52):
insult, but she didn't notice.
And it was part of thisstrategy, political campaigning
against what Spain meant backthen and what the new government
or the new idea of a countrywas planning to do, which was
create something new.
And they needed a landmark.
(33:14):
Exactly exactly.
So if it worked 500 years ago,why not?
Well, of course, we are notgoing to be blamed for our
mistakes, but we wereprofessionals.
You need professionalinterpreters to make
interpreting work and she was, Iwould say, the proto
professional, the firstprofessional interpreter that we
(33:35):
had in Mexico, and I was nottold about her story when I
studied, and that was that.
It's shameful, because we havea tremendous story to tell and I
believe that the future of ourprofession also depends on how
good we tell our story and howwell we describe what happens in
(33:59):
the background, in thebackstage, because people don't
know, they only see us openingour mouths and it looks pretty
easy and we haven't managed todescribe how complex it is.
So I think that there are manyresearchers, many, many
resources out there thatdescribe Malinche in a way that
(34:21):
we haven't managed to do thesame at that level of detail.
It doesn't matter if they don'tdescribe the interpreting
process as we do, but it's thereand they respect her.
She has a very special placeand she has even become the
symbol of social movements, likein the US she represents I will
(34:44):
have to use more of your timeto define but, for example, the
Chicano movement.
For them, malinche representstheir experience and how they
feel in the middle of twocountries, and you come from one
culture, you acquire a secondone, but you are in the middle.
(35:06):
So she represents even amovement, a generation that it's
very far from when she existed,and she's an interpreter.
So we interpreters represent alot and we haven't been able to
at least not me.
Probably I'm generalizing andthat is unfair, but I think that
(35:28):
we could start using thosedescriptions of our profession
and listen.
So what I learned from thatexperience was that I needed to
listen and then I would decidewhat to do with this information
.
But it's fascinating to see howour profession is described.
(35:50):
And we didn't ask for it.
No one told this people.
Hey, this is a very interestingstory, you should explore it.
No, no, no.
Her story is fascinating enoughto keep inspire people after
500 years, and I think it's justa start, because she has
inspired so many, so many peopleto keep on learning and
(36:14):
rewriting the story of whatreally happened.
Well, I don't know if it'spossible to 100%, but at least
there are resources and she iseverywhere and she was highly
regarded 500 years ago and wetoday, interpreters, are not as
highly regarded as she was.
So we might learn a lot fromher story and just feel that gap
(36:40):
because we haven't changed thatmuch.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
This year I also had the opportunity to invite
Professor Bruce Adelson bringinginto the conversation
non-discrimination laws, butwith the specific focus in the
field of education.
Here's a clip from thatconversation.
Speaker 14 (36:57):
It's the same as in many different situations in
life.
Sometimes people will beinterested in what you have to
say.
Sometimes people won't give ablank what you have to say and
OK, well then, what do you do?
And, as you know, I'm a bigadvocacy person.
I'm a big believer in you.
(37:17):
The rights that we have don'texist unless we use them.
Now, not everybody knows whatthe rights are, and I understand
that.
That's a challenge too, but Iwould challenge folks,
particularly in the educationsetting, that we're dealing with
children and, as parents orguardians, we need to be
(37:41):
involved with what's happeningin our kids' schools.
Conversely, the schooldistricts, the teachers, the
administrators If I'm a teacherand I'm sitting in a conference
with a 12-year-old and a parentwho doesn't speak English, you
would think that something wouldclick in my head that wait a
minute.
He's not speaking English, sohow he can't understand what I'm
(38:06):
saying.
You would think that I wouldlike to think that there are
teachers who actively feel thatway.
But sometimes it's a matter ofgoing to the board of education
and even going to individualmembers of the school board and
telling them you get $5 milliona year for the federal
(38:28):
government.
You are required to provide X.
You don't do that and we have alarge LEP population who speaks
Tagalog, who speaks Spanish,who speak Italian, but we're not
addressing that and we need to.
So sometimes you can get alarger conversation going just
(38:50):
by doing it that way.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Season six also brought us the episode entitled
the dark side of interpreting.
In it we delve into the realmof human trafficking, and this
particular guest, Richard Aviles, talks about what it's like
interpreting for such cases.
Take a listen.
Speaker 15 (39:10):
And it was terrifying man.
Because what most people don'tunderstand is that that's child
trafficking.
What that's called is child wartrafficking is what that's
called and that happens in thisworld.
That's happening right now inIndia, that's happening right
now in Afghanistan, it'shappening right now in Iraq,
(39:31):
it's happening in Africa, it'shappening in places in Central
and South America where theytake kids and they basically
indoctrinate them into some sortof extreme behavior.
I mean, you know, I told youabout the kid that was from Mara
Salvatrucha and he was 13.
He was just 13 and he hadalready killed people because
(39:56):
they took him from his house andthey were like we need the
oldest kid and you know that'scalled right there.
A child soldier is what that'scalled, and it's one of the
types of human trafficking thatyou have right.
So you have child trafficking,sex trafficking, servitude,
(40:16):
right, or indefinite servitudealso, which is like debt or
forced labor.
You have Oregon trafficking andthen you have child soldiers,
right.
What people don't understand isthat all of those things have
the same processes to get to itright, like when we talk about
(40:40):
human trafficking.
People don't understand whathuman trafficking is.
It's actions plus means, pluspurpose equals trafficking.
Your actions by recruiting,harboring, transporting, hiding,
patronizing, abusing, moving.
Recruiting, that's the process.
Right by the means of force,coercing, abusing any other bad
(41:09):
thing, coercing right With thepurpose of either a commercial
sex act or a labor or service ofsome sort.
That's it.
That's the two things that youcan put them to.
That equals human trafficking.
When you have all of thosethree things combined and when I
teach it right, I teach it likea math formula.
(41:30):
I teach it like either processmeans ends right Equals
trafficking, or actions meanspurpose equals trafficking.
That's what human traffickingis.
That's why I tell people likethe probability that you've ran
into someone that's done that ishigher than you think, higher,
way higher than you think.
The problem is is that we don'tlook around.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
The following clip is a bit of the conversation with
Hemi Periani from the episodeAcross Continents and Cultures.
Speaker 16 (42:02):
This profession, like doctors, it comes from
heart.
You have to feel it, you haveto sense it.
The doctors feel the pain ofthe patient.
That's why they can diagnoseand they understand.
And, of course, the sciencebehind it.
And this profession also hasscience as well, the science of
(42:22):
communication and humanrelations.
So you have to like people.
Yeah, please, and yeah.
If you put the money beforepeople, then this is not a good
route to go.
I suggest pick something else.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
At some point of our interpreting career, whether
that be in the beginning or inthe middle, we may stop to think
about why we do what we do, whydo we want to do the work or
why should we continue to dothis work, which is why I very
much appreciated my conversationthis season with Dr Sophia
Garcia-Beyer on the essence ofinterpreting.
Speaker 17 (43:03):
Well, okay, so maybe I'll start by reading the
definition that was reachedafter group discussion, right,
because this was a result ofteamwork, as I mentioned, when
we did this textbook, we met sooften and we all impacted each
(43:23):
other's way of thinking of thecontent that we were creating.
And the definition forcommunicative autonomy that we
landed on, I will read, is thecapacity of each party in an
encounter to be responsible forand in control of his or her own
communication.
What this is trying to say is,when the interpreter is called
(43:49):
to provide a service, theinterpreter's mandate is to help
people own their owncommunicative process, and for
that the parties that areinvolved in that encounter need
to have their own voice, andbecause of the language barrier,
that's a challenge.
(44:10):
So when they send messages, ifthe interpreter is people who
love conveying those messagesaccurately, reliably, then the
interpreter is supportingcommunicative autonomy.
But there's also the other side.
When the interpreter is makingsure that the messages that are
directed or expressed in theroom directed to that party or
expressed in the room are alsoconveyed, then you can fully be
(44:35):
an owner of your communicativeprocess.
So supporting communicativeautonomy is facilitated in
communication, but facilitatingcommunication could also mean
having a part in thatcommunication.
Oh, let me explain.
You just misunderstood.
This is what they meant.
That is not supportingcommunicative autonomy.
(44:55):
So in that way I wanted to finda way to express this in a more
precise way.
And some people will not agreewith the fact that communicative
autonomy is the specialcontribution of the community
interpreting profession, but forthose of us who do agree, I
(45:16):
think it helps to have a way ofnaming it that is unequivocal.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Episode 102 of season six, Bradas Gabriela Vocanete,
with the topic the Art ofSelf-Care for Interpreters.
Speaker 18 (45:32):
So as soon as the conference started, she just
froze.
She froze completely.
She couldn't utter any kind ofword or sentences.
So I continued working untilthe break and then I had to take
her to quiet corner and say,look, it's difficult for
(45:56):
everybody, but we have to do ourbest because it's not the
delegates fault that we couldn'tprepare.
So we do our best, breathe,come down and just do your best.
So then later on she did,actually she did, and it was
okay, but she had frozen becauseshe was not used to this level
(46:20):
of technical medical information.
And you know, when the speakercomes and says I've prepared
this for it's a three hourpresentation, but I'm going to
rush through it because we onlyhave half an hour, no, that
never happened, something likethat.
So those moments, thosespeakers, I was doing and she
(46:43):
was doing the more normal onesand it was good.
In the end it wasn't a success,but there was this moment of,
you know, the nervous system,the human nervous system, like
any mammals, we have this restand digest, which is the
parasympathetic and mode of ournervous system.
(47:06):
And then we have fight, flightor freeze.
So the freeze is the worst.
We never want to have that kindof in other mammals, like the
gazelle, for example.
When she's chased by a big catand she's caught, the nervous
(47:29):
system shuts down because thenatural evolution has made it so
that the animal doesn't sufferall that pain.
So you freeze and then you'retotally disconnected because
otherwise it would be anenormous amount of pain.
(47:49):
Nature is wise like that andnature tries to avoid.
So in the human the freezereaction is you go blank, you go
blank, you freeze, you can'tfind your words and you can't
think straight and you alsodisconnect from the neck down.
It's a whole body reaction.
(48:11):
Huh, yes, so that's whathappened to my colleague.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
This year, the world of remote interpreting, more
specifically, community remoteinterpreters, experienced the
publication of a textbook thatis very specific for remote
interpreters and communitysettings.
Volume one of the remoteinterpreter was published this
year and I had the incredibleopportunity to speak with the
(48:37):
authors here on the show abouttheir experience working
together for its creation.
Here's a clip from thatconversation.
Speaker 19 (48:44):
The personal and individual stories are, you know
, of course, what we treasureand carry with us.
But actually, for me, I've beenin this profession long enough
to have seen some of thespecializations found both get
founded and then develop intowhat we consider developed to
some degree right.
So I came into this professionat the beginning of the really
(49:06):
the professionalization and theformalization of healthcare
interpreting.
I came in as an educationalinterpreter.
I mean, that was where I firstdid most of my early, you know,
before ethics before anything.
Then I spent, you know, 25years helping focusing on the
healthcare interpreting side ofbuild itself, only to now see
educational interpreting, right,you know, be in a very similar
(49:30):
moment and actually now have aperspective that I did not have
25 years ago.
That, oh my gosh.
You know, small groups ofpeople working really hard on
these foundational pieces of aprofession can make change
happen fast, right, and I wouldmake legitimate.
Like it really helped turnsomething that's kind of a, as
(49:50):
we've been talking about, a very, very demess, you know, into
something more formalized androbust and credible, and so I
give that as framing.
Like this is a small group ofpeople who have a broad, you
know, variety of background, theright kind of background, and
our goal for me, certainly mygoal for this textbook is that
it be one of those foundationalpieces that can get us away from
(50:14):
language service companieshaving the burden of training
interpreters because there is noexpected norm or set of norms
you know across the board for itwhen you're working remotely,
to actually having.
Hey, here's a first stab atstandardization.
Take it, improve it, use it,create guidelines.
(50:35):
I hope professionalassociations pay attention to it
, not just the people who areworking in, you know, in the
interpreted moment right.
So I know that's a littlegrandiose, but, like to me,
that's 100% what I hope thisvolume and what the second
volume will lead to, that 10years from now we'll look back
and go look, we have all thesetraining programs on remote
interpreting and they all kindof agree on the content and they
(50:58):
have agreement about what theskill set is and what should be
included in it.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Season 6 gave us more interpreter stories, more
challenges that we could learnfrom, more experiences and
knowledge that was shared, andit's all made possible thanks to
the willingness of the gueststhat come on the show to share
their story publicly.
And, of course, it goes beyondsaying that.
(51:25):
The podcast wouldn't be what itis today without the support of
you, the listener, coming backeach and every episode to hear
the stories of the individualsbehind the scenes.
Like these stories, there areso many other stories out there
of interpreters and languageprofessionals in the world
(51:45):
wanting to share their knowledgeand their experiences, and I'm
hoping that that continues to besomething that I am able to
share for the next season.
I really hope that this seasonbrought you some sort of
motivation, learning experienceor inspiration about the work
that we do.
(52:05):
Brand the Interpreter was bornfrom a desire to highlight the
stories of languageprofessionals from around the
world, and I'm ever so gratefulthat you continue to come back
to support the show and gratefulfor the guests that are willing
to come and share their storieson this specific platform.
As it is the case at the closeof each and every season, I'd
(52:29):
like to ask that you pleaseshare the podcast on your social
media platforms for others tobe able to experience perhaps
what you've experienced theexposure of the stories of
language professionals fromaround the world, the
connections, the relatednesspotentially that you may
(52:50):
experience from your own storywith the stories of others out
in the field.
I also ask that you considerrating and reviewing the show if
you have not done so already,and if you have potentially
request or ask, then anothercolleague do the same.
These help the podcast, ofcourse, but it also helps to
(53:11):
support me as your host and theguests that are willing to come
on the show.
Brandy interpreter has had theopportunity to interview over
100 guests.
Now, if I put that intoperspective or potentially you
joined me into putting that intoperspective if we were in a
room filled with 100 individuals, I personally would feel
(53:36):
overwhelmed.
I would feel that it is a roomfull of people that have stories
, stories that are very specificto the industry, stories that
they are willing to share andmake public for others to listen
to, for potentially the newgeneration of language
(53:57):
professionals to be inspired by,to learn a little bit more and
to simply leave a mark in theindustry about their story
within the profession.
So when you leave a rating or areview.
It's more than a vanity metric.
What it really is is thesupport of me, first and
(54:19):
foremost, as your host, to knowthat the work that is being
produced and published isaccepted by you, the
interpreting community, but alsofor future guests.
It supports them, so when thatthey search Brandy interpreter
and before they accept aninvitation of mine, they can see
(54:42):
the work that has been outthere and what listeners think
about the show.
So it's just a continuous wayof being able to support one
another within the industry thatsupports us Since the start of
the podcast in 2020, I, at theend of the year, will take a
break from production andrestart the new season in
(55:07):
February.
I encourage you to catch upduring that time to some of the
stories that were shared thatmaybe you weren't able to listen
to when they were published.
And if you're a new listener,it's a great time to go back to
the beginning of the podcast tolisten to some of those stories
(55:29):
way in the beginning of time,three years ago, when the
podcast was first born, andlisten to the stories of the
first guests that were on theshow.
And while the year 2023 comesto a close, and so does season
six of Brandy interpreter.
Brandy interpreter podcast willcontinue its season next year
(55:52):
with even more great stories,and I'll let you in on a little
secret, but only if you promisenot to tell anyone.
Next year's season will bring ina new format to the stories
that are being shared, so it's acompletely new production and
I'm super excited to be able toshare it with you all I know.
So exciting, right?
I mean I'm definitely excited.
(56:14):
So make sure that you subscribeto the podcast on whatever
application you listen from, sothat it reminds you when episode
one of season seven drops nextyear.
And with that, dear listener,this is your host, mireya Perez,
signing off from season six ofthe Brandy interpreter podcast,
(56:35):
the podcast that shares yourstories about our profession.
Till next time.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.