Transforming Schools for Multilingual Success with Mark Byrne

Unlock the secrets of effective language access in education with our guest, Mark Byrne, a dedicated language access consultant. From a life-changing experience in Peru to a flourishing career in language access advocacy, Mark's journey is both inspiring and informative. In this episode, he shares personal stories and professional insights about building inclusive environments for multilingual students and families at the K-12 level. Discover how strategic language access planning not only fosters inclusivity but also enhances academic outcomes and community engagement.

Navigate the complexities of language access legislation as we explore pioneering efforts by states like Illinois, Colorado, and New Jersey. Mark provides a comprehensive analysis of how legislation shapes language services and the crucial role of unified departmental efforts in schools. We delve into the intricacies of balancing compliance with impactful service delivery, emphasizing the academic and community benefits of investing in robust language access plans. This conversation offers valuable perspectives for educators, administrators, and policy advocates aiming to make a tangible difference in multilingual education.

Mark highlights the importance of professional development in leveraging these services for maximum impact. As we anticipate future developments, including potential federal guidelines, this episode is a treasure trove of insights and practical advice. Join us for an enlightening discussion that underscores the importance of language access in shaping the educational landscape and empowering diverse communities.

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Thanks for tuning in, till next time! 👋

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome back, branded Bunch, to another episode of
the Brand the Interpreterpodcast.
This is Mireya, your host, and,as always, thank you so very
much for joining me today.
This is it.
We have made it to the lastfull interview of the Brand the
Interpreter podcast before theend of the calendar year and

(00:28):
with all of the changes and thedifferent projects going on this
year, which I'm extremelygrateful for, I recognize that
there were fewer episodes thatwere rolled out in the Brand the
Interpreter podcast this year,for this season, but I am
excited for next season, asthere will be definitely more

(00:48):
episodes and just a variety ofdifferent content that I will be
offering for your listeningpleasure.
And speaking of differentcontent, please remember that
next year I am planning onbringing a completely different
show with a completely differentformat, entitled Echoes of the

(01:11):
Interpreter, and in order forthat podcast show to take off, I
need your interpreter stories.
So please remember to visit theshow notes and click on the
link to submit your entry topotentially have your story
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(01:31):
podcast.
It's the end of the year andthere are many new individuals
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So if you've been listening toa couple of the episodes for a
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(01:51):
Your ratings and reviews helpkeep this podcast show running,
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podcast and give it a greatrating.
And if you're up to it, it'd begreat to see your reviews as

(02:12):
well.
All right, and now on with theshow.
Today I'm speaking with MarkByrne, whose story takes us from
the football fields of Glenview, illinois, to a life-changing
experience in Peru that sparkeda deep passion for languages and
cultures.
Mark has carved out afascinating career, one that

(02:32):
shows how language access goesbeyond words and becomes a
strategy for creating inclusivespaces.
In this episode, we'll explorehow schools can approach
language access with intention,treating it like a business
model to better connect withmultilingual students and
families.
Mark also shares insights intothe critical role of legislation

(02:55):
and gives us practical adviceon identifying and empowering
language access champions inschools.
It's an inspiring andthought-provoking conversation
about culture, education andcommunity, and, as you know, I'm
an advocate for language accesspolicies in schools, so I
always appreciate conversationsthat surround language access in

(03:19):
public education.
So that's what today is about,and I hope you enjoy it.
So let's dive in.
Mark Byrne is a language accessconsultant whose primary focus
is to promote language access inK-12 schools and empower school
leaders to advocate on behalfof multilingual families across
the country.
Mark is also the host of theLanguage Access Lectern, a

(03:42):
podcast dedicated to celebratingschool leaders who champion
language access within theircommunities.
When Mark is not working oninitiatives to support
multilingual student populations, he is likely running around
the zoo or the arboretum or alocal park with his son Harrison
, age 5, and daughter Zoe, age 3.

(04:03):
So, without further ado, pleasewelcome Mark Byrne to the show.
Mark, welcome to the show.
It's a pleasure to have you.
Thanks for being here today.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Absolutely a pleasure to be here.
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Absolutely.
I think today's conversation isgoing to be both entertaining,
educational, and it's just goingto be jam-packed with,
hopefully, a lot of information,practical information that our
listeners can actually utilizein their day-to-day right.
At least, that's what I'mthinking.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
I'll deliver, I promise.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
So let's begin by getting to know Mark a little
bit more.
Mark, if you would be so kindas to just sharing a little bit
about your background, where didyou grow up and what maybe was
a fond childhood memory of yours?

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah sure, I was born in Evanston, illinois, which is
just a little bit north ofChicago.
I grew up in Glenview, kind oftying back into the Evanston
field.
One of my favorite childhoodmemories, you know I'm a big
football fan, always have beenand one of my youngest memories
is the 1995 Northwestern RoseBowl team and my dad would take

(05:17):
us to all sorts of games Let mebring some friends and you know
Northwestern had a history ofjust not being very good at
football.
I mean, we're talking terribleat football, you know,
embarrassingly bad, likeincredible multi-season losing
streaks.
So in 1995, when the programyou know became, you know,
prominent and, you know, able todeliver results, you know we
were in, we were at every gameand rushing the field with my

(05:40):
dad and having him put me up onthe goalpost while I tore the
goalpost down with the rest ofthe Wahoos, that was a lot of
fun.
So that's, that's my, you know,one of my earliest childhood
memories you know, of myself andmy dad and my family here in
Evanston Fun story.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
I can see how that would be a great memory.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, I took my son to his first.
Actually it wasn't his firstfootball game.
His first football game was aNorthwestern game when he was
about six weeks old, eight weeksold, something like that we had
the little headphones on him.
Like I said, I'm fanatical, butI brought him to a Notre Dame
football game a couple of weeksback when they lost to Northern
Illinois.
We were there with my son.

(06:19):
I don't think my son's gettinginvited back to Notre Dame State
.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
It's okay, like there'll be other times when,
when, when he'll have bettermemories, I'm sure, like you.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, hopefully that's not his first football
memory.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Tell me a little bit about the demographics of of the
town where you grew up.
How, how was that for you?

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, no, I did not grow up with a bilingual or
multilingual background.
The community that I grew up inhas experienced, you know, a
rapidly growing EL studentpopulation.
I went to Glenbrook 225 forhigh school great district and
you know some tremendous leadersover there at Glenbrook who are
doing remarkable things inbuilding out dual language

(06:59):
programs for students there andreally rising to the occasion of
, you know, promoting languageaccess there at the Glenbrooks.
So while it wasn't that waywhen I went to school there, you
know the fabric of thecommunity has certainly, you
know, kind of evolved andchanged over the years and you
know certainly more of amultilingual community nowadays.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
You ended up eventually and we'll get into
that piece a little bit later onbut you did end up fast forward
present day in the world oflanguage access.
Why don't you share with us alittle bit about how sort of
like the blocks to getting youto that point started?

(07:40):
So give us a little bitbackground as to where it all
began, now that you think backat it.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah.
So, you know, thinking abouthow I grew up, you know came
from, you know, relatively lowincome family, you know struggle
a little bit growing up, youknow, really didn't have a lot
of opportunities to travel orget exposed to culture.
So when I did have theopportunity to put myself
through college, we had sometravel opportunities as part of

(08:08):
the mission at Holy CrossCollege to do some cultural
immersion programs and I foundmyself in Peru and of course I
took high school Spanish.
I mean, it's, you know, afaith-based organization where
we came in and we did service inthe community.
So you know, we worked forlocal food pantry and some of

(08:28):
their programs to support somechildren with disabilities as
well.
So we were there for threeweeks and just getting immersed
in that culture and seeingdifferent parts of the world and
really getting to understand,you know just how broad the
world is.
You know, from a languageperspective, it was so
interesting being there in Peru.
I actually got to hear Quechuaspoken and I thought that was

(08:49):
just.
Yeah, I thought it was just thecoolest thing and my Spanish
was pretty good at the time.
Of course I can't understandany Quechua, but just hearing it
spoken, you know, in anauthentic setting was just so
incredibly neat to me and it wasone of those experiences that
really stuck out with me.
So, you know, upon graduatingfrom college, you know I was
thrilled to get out into theworld.
I worked for a little bit inprinting services.

(09:11):
I then transitioned over towork as a marketing consultant
in the financial servicesindustry.
The company I was working forgot sold, so I was, you know,
finding myself, you know,looking for jobs, and a
recruiter reached out to me andthey said you know, mark, we
have this interestingopportunity.
It's strange it's out there.
It's not what we've talkedabout before.
It's a Chinese translationagency.
They're interested in you for,you know, coming on board and,

(09:33):
you know, doing a businessdevelopment role with them.
Would you be open to that?
I said, well, I'd be open to aconversation.
You know I'm always curious,had a conversation with some of
their leadership and part ofthat package that was appealing
to me was the opportunity totravel to China and really kind
of like dive in and double downon my curiosity for culture.
And, you know, a few monthsinto my tenure there, a company

(09:55):
was called EC Innovations.
A couple months into my tenurethere, I was able to, you know,
get out to China and spend threeweeks out there, and it was for
the company's 20th anniversary.
So I got to spend some timewith some of my peers out there,
some of the colleagues thatI've been working with over the
past couple of months, some oftheir clients, and then also got
to do some travel and culturalimmersion across mainland China.

(10:18):
So that was a really neatexperience.
It led me to the languageindustry.
I'm very passionate about theworld of K-12 education and I
think a part of that is because,you know, I had a lot of
challenges coming up ineducation.
You know I'm actually kind ofalmost proud to admit it, but

(10:38):
you know I'm a high schooldropout.
You know, went back in, gotsome, you know, went through the
alternative program, got myhigh school diploma, ended up
going to a community college,didn't have a lot of options
when I went to a four-yearuniversity based on my grade
point average, but you know itkind of allowed me to rise and
allowed me to, you know, beauthentic and tell my story in

(11:00):
these K-12 schools.
And now, as I come back, youknow, all these, many years
later, you know to be aprominent face in promoting
language access in K-12 schoolsand leverage my curiosity of
culture and my passion forhelping improve student outcomes
.
You know, through languageservices.
It's a very compelling storythat I can get out and tell, so

(11:21):
it can be very humbling thinkingabout.
You know where you're from andwhat your past looks like.
I do think that being authenticand being comfortable in your
own skin, while being honestwith people and being mission
driven is really kind of asuperpower for me.
You know, just very down toearth, and knowing that I'm
making a very small differencemeans a lot to me.

(11:42):
You know, I don't so much thinkabout the output of my efforts,
but I think more about theimpact of my efforts and and I'm
excited for you know continuingon that path.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, and we'll, and we'll get to talking as to where
you are currently at a littleup ahead.
But I'd like to go back to yourexperience in Peru.
So, aside from having heard theQuechua language and being
immersed in that for three weeks, what did you bring home from

(12:15):
that experience?
What did you see as potentiallyjust a contrast in the way you
lived here in the States, forexample, as opposed to the
communities that you wereserving?
What did that look like for youbeing young out there in a
foreign country?

(12:36):
What was that like for you?

Speaker 2 (12:38):
It was an eye-opening experience.
It made me appreciate a lot ofthe sacrifices that my family
has made for me over the years.
You know, like I said at theonset, you know I didn't grow up
with a silver spoon in my mouthby any means, but when you
start to see, you know whatglobal poverty looks like and
what poverty looks like in othercountries man does it really
make you appreciate.
You know what we got going onhere in the United States of

(13:00):
America.
So you know I came home feelinga great sense of gratitude.
You know, after that three weekimmersion program my language
skills were definitely sharper.
I wish I could have stayed foranother five months, you know,
because it's one of those thingsyou know, if you don't use it,
you lose it.
And you know I don't get achance to work with my Spanish
nearly enough, so that is a soresubject.
But yeah, I think just mostly Icame back with a great sense of

(13:22):
gratitude and appreciation andjust like respect for, you know,
people and other cultures.
And you know, at the end of theday, you know we shared a lot
of smiles.
You know when we were overthere and you know I spent a lot
of time running around playingsoccer with kids and basketball
and things like that.
You know hobbies of mine,passions of mine that I got to
share with people and it wasawesome.
It was awesome.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
And then your experience out years later out
in China.
So it's business.
Were you working through aninterpreter when you were out
there working with them, or?
Or had you, had you learned theChinese language?

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Oh my goodness, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, not even close.
Yeah, I can't even remember theyou know the drinking
expressions that they would haveGala or a gumby or something
like that.
You know, bottoms up, that'sabout all I got in China.
Yeah, no, the folks that I wasassigned to.

(14:17):
I don't think he was aprofessional interpreter.
He was a project manager forthe organization and he spent a
lot of time with me out thereand we established a great
friendship.
He was a lot of fun to palaround with and we ended up
working closely together for acouple of years after that, so
it was a good way to kick off arelationship and friendship with
him.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
He was what we now call one of the ad hoc
interpreters, someone that wasbilingual in the firm and was
your assigned interpreter,perhaps.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, he had his hands full that week, let me
tell you, because I wanted to goeverywhere and talk to everyone
and shake hands with everybodyand just make sure we connected.
So he was working, that's forsure.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
That's so great.
I was just curious like, oh,what happened there?
Was there an interpreterinvolved?
Or was that your firstexperience with an interpreter
Now interpreter involved, orthat was that your first
experience with with aninterpreter?
Now I want to fast forward fromthese experiences.
You know it in the beginning,you know of your journey into
language access, into how yougot started and what were those

(15:18):
opportunities that that led youinto language access.
Because there was, I feel likethere was um, some experiences
with language, um, with foreigncountries and going into
different cultures andexperiencing that.
But it was, I'm assuming,through a series of events that

(15:40):
led you into language access.
You arrive in the languageaccess world, but then you also
stayed.
So I want to go into what werethose series of events that
potentially occurred that ledyou into the language access
world and then what inspired youto stay in that and expand in

(16:01):
this world.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, Well, I mean again, you know, curiosity of
culture.
It all comes down to that interms of getting started.
And you know, of course, I'vehad experiences working in the
corporate world in a businessdevelopment role.
I've sold a lot of differentthings, whether it be, you know,
my own time consulting ormarketing services things,
whether it be, you know, my owntime consulting or marketing
services, professional servicesI've sold curriculum data
solutions in a K-12 setting.
So I've done a lot of differentthings.

(16:24):
Nothing really makes me feel asgood as I do about positioning
language services in a K-12setting, though, just because I
know that.
You know language companiesacross the United States and
probably globally.
They don't really focus on theK-12 schools as much as they
should.
Right, many of theseorganizations are very focused
on health care, life sciences,other industries where you know

(16:48):
they'll devote more of theirtime and resources, and K-12
schools simply get left behindsometimes.
You know, in terms of you knowhow you think about developing
solutions specifically for those.
So, in terms of why I choose tostay in the language services
and the role that I am incurrently, you know it's a great
opportunity for me to advocatefor families, advocate for
multilingual students, schoolstaff, but also the interpreters

(17:10):
that we work with right.
So it's just a greatopportunity for me to kind of
wrap my arms around the world oflanguage access and be a
champion for all people who aresupporting these multilingual
families and schools.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Again, you know, sort of inspires your work, because
I think that when individualshear language access and they

(17:44):
hear public education,potentially, are thinking
interpreters, check, and youknow the provision of the
service basically.
But I think we, we, we thelisteners know that there
there's a lot more involved inlanguage access, and so I'd like

(18:04):
to, I'd like to know what you,mark Byrne, see in the world of
language access.
You know what are.
What are you seeing as the gapsthat you feel that you, as the
individual with your experiencesand your knowledge, brings in
to be able to offer and providemore information?

(18:26):
I think that really that's whatit's about, right.
When we talk about languageaccess in schools, it's about
not only expanding the serviceitself, but expanding the
knowledge behind the work.
And so what is it that inspiresyour work in language access?

Speaker 2 (18:43):
You know.
So, first and foremost,somebody who's really kind of
struggled in you know, their owneducation, their own experience
, who's, you know, sat throughthose disciplinary hearings, who
sat through the specialeducation meetings where you
know they're trying to get yousome additional supports to help
get you through.
You know, when they're tryingto make outplacements for you
once it's, you know, clear thatyou know you're not going to be

(19:04):
able to make it through theschool year, you know, based on
how it's going for you, Iremember sitting in those
meetings and having a reallyhard time processing
understanding.
You know, maybe my mind waselsewhere dealing with, you know
, trauma or challenges that Iwas facing in the moment.
So I've sat in that seat.
You know I know what that feelslike and you know I'm also
blessed and very fortunate andprivileged.

(19:24):
You know I don't have alanguage gap.
Right, I had a great schooldistrict that I was a part of.
They've done unbelievablethings for me and you know, of
course, you know, coming out ofthat experience.
You know, going into highereducation, you know I had to
take remediated math courses.
You know, if you look at thedata, you know very few students
, less than 10 percent ofstudents, who have to take

(19:44):
remediated math courses or anycourses for that matter,
remediated courses go on to toachieve their diploma.
Not only have I gone on and gotmy four year diploma, I have a
master's degree on top of that.
So you know, I really do viewmyself as a one percenter in
education and you know that'ssomething that you know I take
serious as a lifelong learnerand I'm very grateful for the

(20:05):
people who worked with me at theGlenbrooks to help get me
through, to get me to this pointImportant to note that I never
quit on myself.
So you know, of course you knowmy own experience.
You know carries with me.
You know throughout the process,of course you know when you
start thinking about you knowthe experience, you know that
multilingual families have inthe special education realm.

(20:25):
Engagement is so important,right?
You know I had my family thereat all those meetings advocating
on my behalf.
They got me through, they gotme to the next level.
Well, when there is a languagegap with a family, it can be
very difficult for them toadvocate on behalf of their
students, their families.
It's difficult for the schoolstaff to be able to get an
understanding of what's going onat home and what those
challenges are and, at the endof the day, you know we want to

(20:47):
help as educators right, it's agreat opportunity to serve
multilingual learners.
Of course, and the other thingthat I think really shapes my
foundation and my understandingof the K-12 space and how I view
language access stems from myexperience working with student
data at a company called EcraGroup, so they're a research and
analytics firm.

(21:07):
I was there for a little over ayear, but it gave me a real,
unique insight into how schoolleaders think about education,
but then also the achievementgaps that exist across you know
different student groups acrosseducation.
So when you look atmultilingual families and you
see that you know very few ofthem are, you know, achieving,

(21:29):
you know the student growthrates that their peers are.
Well, if we don't grow thosemultilingual learners at rates
that are accelerated for that oftheir peers, then those
achievement gaps are going tocontinue to exist for years and
years and years to come.
So understanding that andrealizing the opportunity that
exists there for schools tostimulate student growth for

(21:49):
multilingual learners and theimpact that language services
can have on driving engagement,I think is a really important
component for school leaders tothink about and understand, and
you know that's the business ofschools, right, academic return
on investment is not aboutdollars that are invested for
financial return, like you wouldthink about in the business
setting, but it's about dollarsinvested for student growth.

(22:11):
And as I think about thelanguage services space and how
we, you know position, you knowthese services, of course, you
know we need to bring resourcesand training and you know an
understanding of why we're usingthese services to the end users
who are using these supportservices.
But we also need to share thatstory with school leadership,
school boards, leaders in thecommunity, stakeholders across

(22:34):
our community and share theimpact that language services
can make in a K-12 setting.
Engagement is a criticalcomponent for driving student
growth and you know you couldplug a Google search in or throw
a dart at a map and you'll finddata to support that engagement
drives growth in K-12 schools.
So when I think about myexperience, you know broadly and

(22:55):
you know there's been plenty ofstruggle for me I'm really
excited, as I have matured in mycareer, to be able to kind of
leverage some of my challenges,some opportunities.
You know where I've kind offallen flat.
You know like, like aneducation, my own education and
participating in my owneducation and to be able to, you
know, tell that story, whichI'm, you know, blessed to be

(23:17):
able to do, you know, with manyinstitutions you know will
invite me out to talk a littlebit about my experiences and
some of my struggles and howI've gotten to be, you know that
, 1% or an education.
So it's what keeps me motivated.
Like I said, I've done a lot ofdifferent things in my life but

(23:39):
nothing inspires me like this.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
What have you been able to see in your current role
when it comes to going outthere and having these
conversations with leadership?
And I want to sort of give likethe big picture for individuals
that aren't necessarily involvedin public education.
Right, let's say that theirexpertise is medical or
elsewhere in the community, butin education there's, like these
different layers ofadministration, and all of them,

(24:02):
potentially, are involved inthe conversation surrounding
language access.
Language access in many schooldistricts, for example, are
broken components, and what Imean by that it's you've got one
piece being worked in onedepartment and then you've got
another piece of language accessbeing worked on in a different

(24:24):
department and then, of course,like in many situations, those
departments don't speak to oneanother, and so it's like broken
components, right, but when youhave access to speaking
directly to individuals at adifferent level, such as you
mentioned currently, boardmembers, school board members,

(24:45):
superintendents that typicallyI'm not saying all, but
typically don't really have aconversation at the school level
regarding language access.
It could potentially be thatthere's unique school districts
out there that havesuperintendents and board
members that understand languageaccess and all its complexities

(25:06):
, but it's very rare.
It's like the unicorn, wouldyou agree?
So yeah, so what are younoticing in having these
conversations and having theability to have access to these
specific individuals?
What are?
What is it that you're seeing?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, I do think, a lot of curiosity and interest in
technology, always, you know, afocus on compliance around.
You know state and federallegislation.
You know that's always, youknow, a key term that you know
especially superintendents aregoing to understand, right, you
know they want to make sure thatthey're being compliant with.
You know what's required ofthem by the Department of

(25:45):
Education or, you know, by theirstate legislation.
So that's always going to be aconsideration and a concern.
But you know you did touch onsomething at the onset of your
question and you know I will saythat as I'm out talking to
people.
You know language access is notequal in all 50 states and you
know I don't want to make this apolitical comment, but I think

(26:07):
there's a lot more that we cando in schools to be supportive
of our multilingual families.
And you know, as it relates tolanguage access, you know being
more considerate of tools andputting together a more
comprehensive plan aroundlanguage access is important.
So many, if not all, of ourschools have a strategic plan
and it relates to growth andbuildings and you know, creating

(26:30):
different services within thedistrict, but language access is
never a component of thatstrategic plan.
So, because what you mentionedto me was that different
departments are disconnectedfrom the work that they're doing
to support language accessacross schools, and that's part
of the conversation that I'mtrying to bridge, or I'm trying
to connect that with differentdepartments and help them tell

(26:51):
their story as to how theysupport multilingual families
across the community.
And it's a tremendous valuethat we provide in that sense,
because there's a disconnectthere and you know, if the right
hand doesn't know what the lefthand is doing, then we're going
to have a hard time.
You know, putting our handsaround a student and helping
them, you know, achieve as muchsuccess as they could possibly
have and you know that's truewhether they're a multilingual

(27:12):
family or if they're, you know,a family or student who's deaf
or hard of hearing, be able toput together those supports for
families and understand.
You know what you're doing, howyou're doing it, why you're
doing it.
You know to drive growth, Ihope right to help those
students improve their studentoutcomes very important and you
know that's the type ofconversations that I'm trying to

(27:32):
have with school leadership andyou know, when I do get an
opportunity to speak withdirectors of, you know,
multilingual departments, theyspeak that language and they
know that this is a directionthat the industry is going to.
The education industry is whatI'm referring to.
I do anticipate that theDepartment of Education is going
to put out some guidelinesaround language access planning

(27:52):
in the years to come.
It would not surprise me in theleast if it was mandatory for
all schools to put together alanguage access plan for all
their families as a component ofa strategic plan.
And you know, I think about youknow what the impact of that
could be across.
You know 20,000 schools in thiscountry, something like that,
school districts, and you knowit's just a remarkable

(28:14):
opportunity.
As I think about you know theseat that I'm sitting in, the
work that I'm doing and theability to you know really have
an impact.
I think language accessplanning is going to be a great
way for me to be able to do thatwith school partners.
So I think this, this should be, you know, on the tip of a
school leader's tongues,especially if they're focused on
supporting multilingualcommunities.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Absolutely Pre-recording.
We spoke about a lot of things,but one of those things that
I'm really interested in youbeing able to expand on for our
audience is the conversation ofthe business of language access,
because I think that it sort ofgoes into what we were just

(28:57):
talking about all thosedifferent elements of what
language access truly entails.
It goes beyond ensuring thatthere are bilingual staff, which
we already know that that isn'teven enough, right Bilingual
staff is not ensuring meaningfuland appropriate language
services to our multilingualfamilies.

(29:18):
But, generally speaking, thisis sort of the idea that is
wrapped around language accessservices.
So, thinking about thosedifferent elements, what to you,
is the business of languageaccess?
How can someone thatpotentially does not understand
language access look at it fromthrough that lens in order to be

(29:41):
able to make the connectionwith what they're doing and what
they're offering?
What is the business oflanguage access?

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, so you know, I think it's a couple of
components right.
So earlier I teased the conceptof academic return on
investment right, dollarsinvested for student growth and
I think that's an importantcomponent for school leaders to
understand and be able tomeasure and quantify how the
investment is impacting students.
I think that's critical.
We want to understand whatwe're spending the money on and

(30:11):
we want to understand what weget out of it.
And taking a look at data andtaking a look at the dollars
spent and seeing where you'respending the money and seeing
what you get for it, I think isan incredibly important
component.
And, of course, you knowdifferent districts have
different tools in place tomeasure student growth and to
look at student data.
There's a lot of greatcompanies out there who do that
kind of work, but you know, then, to be able to attach you know,

(30:34):
some sort of growth metric tomeasure you know what do we get
out of this investment?
You know, of course, we madethe investment, we spent X
amount of dollars, but how muchgrowth did that lead to for our
multilingual families?
So I really think you know,having a system in place that
allows you to measure yourimpact is really important.
Now, I mentioned a criticalword and I've done it a couple
times, and that's impact.

(30:55):
So the other thing that I talkabout with school leaders, as it
relates to academic return oninvestment and the work that we
do in K-12 schools, is, you know, it's not about the output,
right, it's about the impact.
So, when you're thinking aboutthe role of an interpreter Right
and I oftentimes don't thinkschool leaders really understand
what the role of an interpreteris or how that works, but you
know, you got to think lessabout the output, right,

(31:16):
understanding, right.
They think too much.
It's all you know.
We just need to understand eachother.
We need to understand eachother.
Well, it's not always aboutunderstanding, right.
Like you think about the roleof an interpreter in a special
education setting, okay, it'simportant to develop an
understanding.
There's lots of ways that wecan go about getting an
understanding from one another,right, there's tools, there's
technologies, there'sinterpreters, there's all these
different ways, but one of theimportant things that we're

(31:37):
trying to do within that specialeducation setting is establish
credibility and trust with thefamily.
That's so, so, incrediblyimportant in special education,
especially as you start talkingabout, you know, outplace
services or you know differentthings that you want, you know,
families to react to or sign offon, or, you know, allow their
student to.
You know, take advantage of thebest of what your district has

(31:59):
to offer.
You're going to need to getbuy-in from that family, and you
know, allowing them to, youknow, limp their way through a
conversation in broken Englishis not allowing them to have
meaningful participation intheir son or daughter's
education.
It's just not so.
You know, when you think aboutthat and you think about, you
know, academic return oninvestment and what we get out
of it, I encourage schoolleaders to think about the

(32:22):
output instead of the impact.
And another thing that I liketo talk about with school
leaders is I'm, you know,talking about, you know,
language access more broadly andyou know, especially, you know,
around, the importance ofhaving a language access plan.
You think about lost time.
Now, lost time, right, like.
You think about that in amanufacturing setting.
You know our presses are downor our conveyor belt is down and

(32:44):
all of a sudden, I have, youknow, 40 employees are standing
there, you know, and I'm payingthem X bucks an hour and no one
is working.
That's lost time.
Well, in school districts, whenthere's, you know, a language
barrier that we're having a hardtime overcoming.
We're trying to figure out howwe're going to figure out this
or how we're going to create,you know, some understanding
between this family and ourstaff.
We don't even know what languagethey're speaking sometimes when

(33:04):
they walk into the school.
If there's a real a lack of, youknow, ability to speak English,
so that's lost time right there.
You know, if I'm a director of,you know, teaching and learning
at a school district and I havea family and I can't figure out
how to, you know, have aconversation with them and I'm
sitting there for 15 minutes andI'm walking down the hallway to
talk to this person and I'mwalking down the hall to figure
this, that's lost time.

(33:26):
And if you think about how manymultilingual learners you have
across your district and you'rethinking how many interactions
that they have across thedistrict, then you start to
realize how much lost time canexist and what an incredible
bottleneck that is for a schooldistrict.
And again, I only bring this upto reinforce the importance of
having a strategic languageaccess plan to be able to train

(33:49):
and articulate the who's, thehow's, the why's of how we go
ahead and we service thesefamilies.
So that's a little bit aboutthe business of language access
that I do not think that schoolleaders really think about as it
pertains to, you know, puttingtogether a language access plan,
but it's got to be of politicalimportance, right.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Absolutely.
I like what you just saidbecause it really puts an
emphasis on understanding whoyou're serving.
So, if we look at it from thelens of a business a business, I
imagine, wants to understandthe audience that they're
serving, right, the public thatthey're serving it's like when
you're thinking about the clientmodel what's that?

(34:30):
What do they call it?
Your avatar, right?
Your client avatar?
What does that individual looklike?
Now, I would imagine that anygreat business always thinks
about how we're going to tailorthe service to that specific
audience.
What are their interests?
What are they looking for?
Where are those weak points?
Wherever we look, it's allabout the data that businesses

(34:56):
are collecting in order tounderstand, better understand,
the clients that they're servingor the audience that they're
trying to serve.
And it behooves me how manyschool districts try to do this
backwards by just simply statingwe are providing services
without necessarilyunderstanding the demographics.

(35:17):
So what I'm hearing you say isthat data is a very important
component.
You've talked about student dataand the past and your
experiences and how that bringssort of shines a light into the
need for potential services, andschool districts do this all
the time.
When it comes to student data,specific student data on

(35:39):
academics, on academic growth,on engagement.
They're always looking at thosenumbers to really sort of
identify gaps, first andforemost, and then, of course,
to sort of address or tailorwhat those plans are going to be
for the next school year inorder to address those gaps.
And so it behooves me, wheneverwe talk about language access

(36:01):
to particularly administratorsthat are making decisions such
as this, that there's never anydata around the topic of
language access, the data, whichis interesting, right, because

(36:24):
there's been conversations Iknow, I've had conversations
with administration in whichthey say well, you know the
communicate, if we've gotEnglish learners, x amount of
English learners, that equatesto the amount of individuals
that we service, because Englishlearners, families typically
are, you know, the ones that arein need.
But if we, if we really look atit from that angle, let's just
say I always go back to thinkingabout how English learners are

(36:50):
reclassified at some point, andthe term for the
reclassification, you know,might differ from district to
district, but let's just saythat right.
no, they're no longer Englishlearners.
The fact that the Englishlearner reclassified doesn't
mean that their family did aswell learners.
The fact that the Englishlearner reclassified doesn't
mean that their family did aswell.
So the fact that the Englishlearner no longer needs the
service or the support at thesame level doesn't mean that

(37:11):
their family member, theirparents, do not.
So if you're using that datapoint as your data to determine
the language need of yourfamilies, then sorry to bust
your bubble, but that'sinaccurate, right, an inaccurate
approach, and you should belooking further into how can we

(37:32):
collect the data.
So I suppose let's go back tothe business of language access.
Let's start with understandingyour audience.
If we look at it from the angleof a business Client experience
.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Client experience, that's that business language
that you don't necessarily findin school sometimes.
But yeah, you hit the nail onthe head.
It's that client experience,right?
It's the experience that youmake for your families, it's the
experience that you make forthe students, it's how they feel
when you walk into the building, right?
I walk into school districtsall the time, you know, meeting
with different folks or puttingon professional development

(38:05):
training sessions.
You know, you can tell thoseschool districts where language
access is at the core of whatthey do.
You can feel it and I hope allschool districts strive to, you
know, be more inclusive amongsttheir multilingual learners.
For sure, and there'sabsolutely an opportunity for
all school districts to improveon that front.
But you can really see thosedistricts that are lighthouse

(38:27):
districts for language accessand how they wrap their arms
around those families and they,you know, get the family
liaisons out into the communityand they provide those liaisons
with those tools that they needto communicate with people
across multiple differentlanguages or multiple different,
you know different culturesthat they represent.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah, but I would go as far as I mean and at this
point it would be assuming,because I wouldn't know unless I
went there specifically and seeif they wanted to be on Brand
the Interpreter podcast and havean interview with them.
But I would assume that itstarts with collecting the
information as to who theiraudience are in order to be able
to sort of, in a way, reverseengineer.

(39:05):
Now, how do we provide theappropriate service to this
particular audience?
So if they're determining thatthere's specific languages, then
that first experience of afamily member that potentially
might be experiencing for thevery first time education in the
States, what is that experiencegoing to be like for them upon

(39:30):
arrival?
And so for the school districtsor educational institutions
that have it right, it's verylikely because they dug a little
deeper, they looked beyond thesurface level of who their
audience is in order to be ableto provide the appropriate level
of service.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
And oftentimes those departments are empowered to go
out and find the work and findthe people to support them.
They'll find the budget inthese districts that really
value language access Right inthese districts that really
value language access right.
And in years past, with theESSER dollars flowing, there was
, you know, an incredible influxof money, you know, available
to our school systems and manydistricts, you know, did spend

(40:10):
some of that money on ESSERfunds and some of their ESSER
funds on those types of services.
Excuse me, and you know it'sjust a.
It's great to see, but, youknow, as I think about the
landscape across the country, Ido think there's a lot of work
to do in the realm of languageaccess and, you know, I think
the conversation just needs tobe shifted a little bit in terms

(40:31):
of what the role of languageservices is, as opposed to just
being about the output.
Make it about the impact, makeit about the families and attach
that to your goals, your youknow, your strategic goals for
your district and drivingstudent growth and forcing more
kids and and and just propellingthem, uh, above, you know, uh,
grade level achievement.
You know that's, that's whatthat role is.

(40:51):
So, um, you know, hopefully wecan continue to, you know,
inspire folks to, you know, takethe bull by the horns and do
great things to support thosecommunities.
But I do think it all startswith the plan.
And you know, like you said, asyou think about graduating
English learners andmultilingual learners, you know,

(41:12):
outside of that designation,you know that that in itself
could have an impact on languageaccess for those families,
right.
So very important to continueto tie that information back to
your student information systemand things like that.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, I had a guest sometime back, kleber from New
York Public Schools, and heshared something that has stayed
with me throughout all thistime, which basically was
language access is everyone'sresponsibility in an educational

(41:45):
system.
It's not the responsibility of aspecific department, of a
specific person, of a specific,maybe even team.
It's everyone should have theability to have a conversation
that surrounds language accessand everyone, from every level
in a school district, shouldmake it their responsibility,

(42:08):
from the teacher that is tryingto schedule a meeting to meet
with the family, appropriatelanguage access.
Right, and thinking about I'mgoing to meet with a family that
speaks a language other thanEnglish and then following the
appropriate steps in order toensure that they're able to
communicate meaningfully withthat family, all the way to the

(42:30):
superintendent or even theschool board, being able to
think about what processes do wehave in place to be able to
support the families that weserve, based on demographics,
based on data, not based onsomeone's.
I think we should right.
The data tells us that weshould be doing this.

(42:51):
So I really appreciate that,really that thought of thinking
that it's everyone that hasaccess to a student.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
You made that sound really easy.
Let's not oversimplify this.
Like what you just laid outthere is ideal but not easy.
So you know when I think abouthaving these conversations with
school leaders, right, you know,of course.
You know student supportservices or special education
could be a multilingualdepartment depending on the size

(43:22):
of the school.
But you know they'll have, youknow, different schools, early
snowflakes.
Everyone's different.
They'll have differentrequirements.
They'll have different.
You know challenges, certainly,but you know rolling out
professional development andtraining around language access
is not something that I've seenschools do particularly well.
And what I do when I sit downwith the district, you know I
try to find those champions forlanguage access.

(43:44):
First, you know at the adminlevel, right, whether it be an
assistant superintendent who'sgoing to take on the charge or,
you know, your director ofmultilingual services, et cetera
.
So we want to find thosechampions at the district level
and then what I encourage themto do is identify champions for
language access in every singlebuilding across your district

(44:06):
and we want to train those folksup and we want to make them
champions and we want toincrease their visibility and
really market the work thatthey're doing.
I don't think schools are verygood marketers or self-promoters
in the sense of celebrating thework that they're doing.
But when it comes to championinglanguage access, stakeholders
across the community need toknow what those people's roles
are and the type of work thatthey're doing, so they can

(44:26):
identify who they can call onwhen there is an issue accessing
services or you do need toarrange for an interpreter to
come into a school meeting oryou want to figure out how
you're going to call home.
It's very difficult to train5,000, 10,000, 10,000, you know
staff on accessing languageservices.
Everybody's got a lot going on.

(44:46):
So you know, I think if you tryto eat the elephant in one bite
, it doesn't always work out sowell.
But if you, you know, go aheadand you kind of take a
scaffolded approach toprofessional development and you
identify champions for languageaccess in every building,
you're going to have a lot moresuccess than if you, you know,
come out swinging and try to get5,000 people on board to

(45:08):
provide those services.
So I loved everything that yousaid right there, but I don't
want to oversimplify orundersimplify how challenging
that could be.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
I should say yeah, but I think that's in the realm,
particularly, of a schooldistrict.
I think it's understood thatthat's with anything, even just
adopting a new policy, forinstance, and then it's rollout,
right.
What's that going to look likeat every level, not just at the
district level?
My conversations, the same, goexactly the same, so you could

(45:40):
have the big picture idea.
But then, of course, what isthat going to look like for
everyone at each level?
And it's going to be different,it's not going to be a blanket
approach for everyone.
Nevertheless, I think thatthinking about that big picture
I mean that would be the start,at the very least, having

(46:01):
beginning the conversations.
I like how you talked aboutchampions, champions for
language access, because that isreally thinking about the
specific individuals at everylevel that are going to be
involved or making it theirbusiness to be involved in
appropriate services is reallywhat it takes.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
And we talked about lost time earlier.
Right, and the challenge thatthat represents for a school
district, and I don't think theyreally think about that.
But if you have establishedchampions for language access,
it's one phone call, it's notwalking around and trying to
figure this out and, oh no,you're starting to feel the
pressure.
This person's been sitting herefor 15 minutes, 20 minutes,
they've been here for 30 minutes.
I can't get anyone to help me,my goodness.

(46:43):
But if you identify who thosechampions are across your
buildings, then at least youhave somebody you can turn to,
who can be that problem solverfor you, be that stopper.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, and continuing this idea, there's notion of the
business of language access.
We can equate your languageambassadors or your language
champions, excuse me with brandambassadors, right?
So the individuals that are outthere promoting the business,
knowing the business at least toa level in which they're

(47:12):
attracting the right audiencebecause you know who you are
targeting and being able toattract the right audience to
your brand, and I think it wouldbe the same thing, it would
equate to that.
You've got the individuals thatunderstand language access,
that know what the services are,but they can only know that if
there's that bigger picture,what's the plan?

Speaker 2 (47:34):
And I will say that it's overwhelming to me how many
school staff would love nothingmore than to support these
multilingual families, right?
Great people all across theUnited States who want to
support these multilingualfamilies, who would bend over
backwards and give them theshirt off their back, right?
That's the type of people thateducators are in the K-12 space,
right.

(47:54):
But when the going gets toughand you got a lot of things
going on and these bottlenecksexist that you can't solve and
you need to get to the nextproblem, then it turns out that
this family is not gettingservices right, because it gets
really, really hard to providethose services.
And then you find, you know,you're on Google Translate just
trying to get an understandingof what one another is saying

(48:14):
instead of driving impact.
You know through professionallanguage services and you know
really supporting those familiesand making them feel like you
know they're part of thecommunity, regardless of you
know what their challenges are.
You know with the Englishlanguage.
So, yeah, I think that's a veryimportant component.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Yeah, no, that's definitely true.
What are you seeing, Mark inthe landscape?
You have the opportunity, inyour current role, to be able to
work with districts across youknow the US.
Your current role to be able towork with districts across you
know the US.
What are you seeing in terms ofjust maybe, trends or
potentially what's to come, andthinking about the technology

(48:51):
piece and thinking aboutlegislation?
Earlier in the conversation, youmentioned the Department of
Justice.
I mean, excuse me, theDepartment of Justice is very
well involved in thisconversation as well, but the
Department of Education andpotentially rolling something
out which I would agree withthat statement as well only

(49:11):
because just a couple of yearsago, I do remember that they
were pushing out a survey withregards to language access
services, and it was our hopefor those of us that were that
are in this, in this specificspecialization, that the
Department of Education wasgetting ready to roll something
out.
You know some updatedguidelines or something more

(49:31):
specific on on language accessservices, but what is it that
you're seeing out there that isspecific to K through 12
education?

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah, well, you know.
So at the federal level, youknow, I think it makes sense to
revisit that question after theelection, right?
This is going to be animportant election for language,
language access, for sure, andI know the folks at the
department of education feelthat.
Um.
So you know that's a questionthat I'm probably not
comfortable addressing at thistime.
We could speak about that, youknow, after the election and see

(50:02):
how that turns out.
But at the state and local level, there is tremendous
legislation coming across.
You know, all across the UnitedStates I've seen some
fascinating legislation out ofthe state of Illinois, where I'm
from, in special education, anda lot of the legislation that
they've introduced here Ibelieve should be best practices
for anybody you, for anybodyoverseeing a multilingual

(50:23):
department.
So, again, most of them focusedon special education.
So one of the things that theydo in Illinois and I think it's
a tremendous thing is they makefamilies aware right on the IEP
paperwork that they have theright to have an interpreter
present that the district willpay for, on an IEP meeting, not
that they'll provide one if youask, but that it's your right.
We're letting people know thatit is your right to have an

(50:45):
interpreter present for thesespecial education meetings.
That's important On thetranslation side of the house.
It's a requirement now inIllinois to deliver IEP
paperwork three days in advance,translated, for these families,
in advance of the IEP meeting.
It gives them an opportunity toreview the materials and come
to that meeting prepared withknow, prepared with questions
and have, you know, trulymeaningful participation in

(51:07):
their son and daughter's.
You know, schooling Veryimportant.
What else is going on here inIllinois?
That's exciting.
You know.
Of course machine translationis a huge hot topic.
So you know, in a lot of schooldistricts you know they're
doing translation work.
You know, sometimes you knowmachine translation through
their IEP software management.
That can be kind of challengingin terms of getting a quality

(51:29):
deliverable.
But in Illinois it is arequirement that you know IEP
documents at a minimum can bemachine translated with a human
post editor.
So that's a very importantcomponent in terms of delivering
a quality deliverable to thesefamilies so that they can
actually and you know, when youthink about special education
language and the vernacular andsome of that language, it's very

(51:52):
technical, it's specific, itdoes not play well with, you
know, different machinetranslation engines that we've
done testing with and it's notsomething that we should be
using at this time withineducation.
So I think it's really excitingthat Illinois has introduced
legislation specifically aroundspecial education and language

(52:13):
access.
I know in Colorado they've kindof mimicked that legislation
and they've just recentlyintroduced that.
In New Jersey there's arequirement I think it's
Language Access Bill 3435,requiring school districts to
have their top seven languagestranslated.

(52:34):
All the materials, whether itbe, you know, registration, you
know IEP documents, things likethat, consent forms, student
field trip forms need to betranslated in all their top
seven languages.
Now, you know, in terms ofcompliance at the state level, I
don't know how that's going toroll out, you know, I really

(52:54):
don't know, but I know there's alot of legislation coming at
the state level in a lot ofdifferent places all across the
country that really, you know,just kind of amplifies what's
going on at the federal level.
I think you know some of thatlanguage around.
Language access at the federallevel is kind of ambiguous as it
relates to what is required ofa district in order to, you know
, follow through and deliverservices to these multilingual

(53:14):
families.
I don't love the language that'scurrently been introduced at
the federal level, but I thinkit's really exciting that
different states are makingimprovements and creating their
own best practices, and you knowit's up to people like me to
get out and celebrate thosesuccesses and introduce that

(53:35):
legislation and tell people youknow that these changes are, you
know, coming all across theUnited States and you know, look
at what folks in Illinois aredoing and can we just imagine
what the impact of that's goingto be on students and family.
I think that's pretty neat.
So I think it's, you know,imperative for folks that are
passionate about language accessto do the best to influence and

(53:56):
, you know, try to haveconversations with lawmakers
whenever possible.
Maria, you know you have agreat platform here and you know
it would be fascinating to, youknow, hear stories from, you
know folks from the DOE or youknow different people who focus
on state legislation.
You know, come on your show.
I haven't gotten too deep intothe roster yet in terms of what
I've listened to, but it's avery important conversation.
It's a conversation that'sgoing to continue to evolve and

(54:18):
I think ultimately we're goingto continue to work through a
process of continuousimprovement as it relates to
language access legislation,where I think you know that the
guidelines from the federalgovernment will become more
clear in time.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
And that's really what I hope to see.
You know there's that federal,federal guidelines that are that
are out there.
You have to dig for them andyou have to know what you're
looking for in order to findthem.
So my, in my ideal world,there'd be a language access
platform at the federal level tobe able to support at the state

(54:57):
level whatever their endeavorsare.
And you're right, I mean fromIllinois to New Jersey,
washington state rolled outtheirs.
No, I mean there's, there's,there's Massachusetts, if I'm
not mistaken, um rolled outtheirs as well, Uh, and then I
believe, if I'm not mistaken, um, I heard this last year at the

(55:19):
AAITE conference, uh, theirannual conference, this last
year at the AAITE conference,their annual conference Maryland
is looking to do something likethat as well.
So, yeah, we're seeing, we'reseeing and this is very specific
to public education which isthat's like it's the greatest
for me at least, it's like wow,I can't believe this is
happening, you know, acrossacross the nation, which is
amazing.
But then, of course, we've gotthe state level and schools

(55:42):
still don't need, don't knowwhat to do, even if there is
guidance at that level.
So there's still a need forunderstanding and information,
absolutely, and being able tohave a platform such as this to
continue to bring outinformation and share
information I think it's aprivilege for me and it's an
honor to be able to do so andhave conversations with

(56:03):
individuals like you, Mark, thathave an understanding of the
need and what, potentially,schools can do in order to be
able to support their need.
So I want to thank you very much, Mark, for the opportunity to
have this conversation with you,and I always allow the
opportunity for guests to sharea little bit more about where

(56:24):
they're currently at, whatservices are being provided and
how our audience couldpotentially reach out to you and
connect with you.
So at this time, I'd like toopen it up and allow you the
opportunity to share about whereyou're currently at, what
services are being provided andhow individuals can get a hold
of you if they'd like.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Yeah, well, I'm never hard to find right, mark Byrne.
I'm with PGLS.
I oversee all of their K-12initiatives around translation,
interpretation, languagetraining Very excited to launch
a language access planningconsulting arm of our business
here this fall.
So we got a couple districtswho are going to serve as pilots

(57:04):
for us in terms of creating acomprehensive language access
plan.
That's going to involve some.
Well, I don't want to get intoit too much until I have
something to roll out, but I'mvery excited about you know, the
opportunity that I have.
Pgls offers language servicesin 200 languages and regional
dialects.
We also offer free professionaldevelopment and training on our
systems and software for ourK-12 clients, as well as best

(57:26):
practices on optimizing theimpact of language services in a
K-12 setting, which couldabsolutely be another podcast
for another day.
So, maria, again thank you forall the work you do and giving
me this platform to come in andtalk about the business of
language access.
It was a lot of fun andhopefully we'll get a chance to
do it again sometime.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Absolutely Sounds great to me.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Thank you so much yeah.