July 29, 2024 • 25 mins
Legendary radio consultant Tracy Johnson joins hosts Dave Martin and Kipper McGee to share his insights on the critical need for radio to become more provocative and emotionally engaging.
Tracy emphasizes the necessity for boldness and innovation, but addresses the challenge of balancing innovation with risk, urging stations to listen to and empower younger programmers -- and LISTEN to them!
Tracy also discusses the importance of changing our revenue models, suggesting that radio stations move away from traditional ads and explore alternative streams
He envisions the evolution of traditional radio by leveraging unique strengths and adapting to digital platforms and podcasts, providing a roadmap for staying competitive in a rapidly changing media landscape.
Additionally, Tracy introduces Radio Content Pro, a groundbreaking tool that uses AI to enhance radio programming by curating targeted content and significantly boosting audience engagement. This episode is packed with forward-thinking strategies and practical advice, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of radio and media.
Check out Radio Content Pro today!
One Minute Martinizing by David Martin
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tracy (00:00):
Most stations are becoming relatively safer and
taking fewer chances than ever.
So I think radio needs to get a lotmore provocative, a lot more emotionally
connected and a lot more interesting.
VO (00:12):
BRANDwidth on Demand rebooting radio with a different take on all radio can be.
Tracy (00:19):
Nobody's innovating.
Nobody's doing something that.
Everyone agrees this makes sense andthis will work, and nobody will do it.
VO (00:27):
Now your guides through the mediamorphosis, David Martin, and author
of the book, BRANDwidth on Demand,media branding coach, Kipper McGee.
Dave (00:36):
Tracy Johnson is a legendary radio consultant with
over 30 years in the industry.
He's famous for his innovativemethods of boosting audiences
and revenue at the same time.
Tracy's helped numerous radiostations achieve great success.
top market positions.
He has a knack for creatingcompelling content and for
improving listener experiencing.
(00:56):
He has a knack for creatingcompelling content and
improving listener experiences.
It's made him a go to advisorfor radio pros around the world.
Tracy's insights and strategies areconstantly shaping the future of
radio, ensuring stations stay relevantand engaging in what is obviously
an ever changing media landscape.
(01:17):
Today, he's here to share somethingthat could change your life.
No, really.
Brandwith On Demand is proudto welcome Tracy Johnson.
Kipper (01:25):
Hey, Tracy.
Hey, Tracy.
Tracy (01:27):
Thank you.
It's good.
It's good to be talkingwith you, Dave and Kipper.
It's a pleasure to be on.
Kipper (01:31):
So question, you've been doing a lot of stuff, including, uh, all
the recent conventions and whatnot.
What are some of the key trendsyou're observing in radio programming,
especially over the past year,year and a half, two years.
How should young program director,content manager, whatever you
(01:52):
want to call them, how shouldthey be adapting to those changes?
Tracy (01:57):
That's a really complicated question, Kipper.
Kipper (02:00):
That's why I asked you.
Tracy (02:02):
I'll give you my overview on it.
I think that radio programming hasfallen backward over the past few years.
Not because it has declinedin quality or approach, but
because it hasn't moved forward.
In quality and approach in Dave's verycomplimentary and flattering intro,
(02:28):
talked about how I've been instrumentalin keeping radio stations relevant.
And I appreciate that.
But I don't think it's important tomake radio stations relevant today.
I think radio stationsare already relevant.
Everybody knows what to expect from them.
Relevant is no longer enough.
We have to be much more topof mind because if you look
(02:48):
at all of the statistics, timespent listening is going down.
Occasions are going down.
If you look at the rating services,they are having a harder and harder
time recruiting a sample that willparticipate with the rating system.
And the reason is because there are fewerand fewer people who are using radio.
And I think that the reasonis because radio programming
(03:10):
has gotten more conservative.
By comparison to the othermedia and the comparison I draw
is, uh, to network television.
Network television is justas well produced and well
written as it has ever been.
But if you go to some of the streamingservices and watch some of the
(03:31):
original series on Apple TV or Huluor Netflix or Peacock or any of the
other services and then come back andwatch a network television, uh, series.
It's not very interesting anymore.
Yeah.
The networks are still competingNBC versus ABC versus CBS are
competing for market share througha rating system instead of.
(03:55):
Relevance or importanceor top of mind awareness.
And I think the same thing is happeningwith radio programming today where
radio stations and broadcastersare measuring their success and how
well we're doing against other radiostations, not peeding for attention.
And we are competing withso many other things.
(04:18):
It's a, we're in an attention battle fortop of mind awareness yet in doing so
most stations are becoming relativelysafer and taking fewer chances than ever.
So, uh, I think radio needs to get a lotmore provocative, a lot more emotionally
connected and a lot more interesting.
Dave (04:37):
Well, Tracy, how do you see the role of radio evolving then?
What's the next step for radio?
Tracy (04:43):
Well, one of the things Kipper mentioned is what you would say to
young programmers that are coming in.
And I, what I would say toyoung programmers are be bold.
And I would say to legacy broadcasters.
Is, listen to them.
Listen to them and take when, when thethree of us were young programmers in our
(05:04):
twenties programming radio stations, theykind of gave us the keys to the radio
station and said, go, make it sound great.
Kipper (05:12):
Right...
Tracy (05:12):
and we were connected with what the audience was responding to at that time.
But if you get a young programmerin place now, someone without.
Decades of experience and wisdomand knowledge in the way that
traditional radio views suchthings, nobody listens to them.
It's execute the format that you'regiven, execute the plan that the
(05:34):
court, that the company is settingforth, basically saying, learn to
do it our way and don't screw up.
As opposed to go create somethingmagical that can happen and
attract a new audience to it.
And I think that there's beena creativity drain that is kind
of creating as a self fulfillingprophecy that nobody's taking any
(05:57):
meaningful steps to be more engaging.
Dave (06:03):
Risk averse.
Yeah,
Tracy (06:05):
Risk aversion is what's happening everywhere on radio.
Kipper (06:10):
Yeah.
And sadly, I have heard the positionof program director be referred to
in the past week as implementer.
Tracy (06:20):
Administrator and executor.
Kipper (06:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that is exactly what you're talkingabout, which is very frightening.
Cause if it weren't for the crazy cats,like the Norm WIner's at XRT and the
Jim Kerr's and some of those folksall the way back, it could have been a
pretty, uh, it could be pretty rough.
Tracy (06:40):
Yeah.
Well, if you play that out.
Look what happens.
You end up with a talent drainbecause you get the truly innovative,
creative programmers and personalitieswho get into radio because they
think it's going to be exciting andthey're going to make a difference.
They find out that they can't.
I'll just go start a YouTube channel.
Instead.
I'll start a podcast.
(07:00):
Instead.
I'll start being a video streamer instead,because these are creative people who have
other opportunities and other options.
In many cases, they are, they'remore creatively challenging.
And at the same time, a lot of timesthey're more lucrative financially because
broadcast budgets aren't getting larger.
They're getting smaller.
Kipper (07:22):
Absolutely.
So with the rise of all of those thingsfrom digital platforms to podcasts
and, everything else that's out there.
How do you see thetraditional role of radio?
Not how it's going to evolve, buthow would you like to see it evolve?
Tracy (07:40):
I would like to see it change the model for how radio
stations make their money.
Uh, because I, this all comesback to how the account executives
go out and sell advertising.
And we're still selling 30 and60 second ads to media buyers
who are buying traditional media.
And they're all speaking the same languagethat we've been speaking for 50 years.
(08:03):
Here's our spreadsheet.
Here's what our ratings are.
Here's how we're doingagainst the other stations.
Don't buy these other radio stations.
Buy ours instead.
We're good.
They're bad.
And the net effect of that at agenciesall over the world is Man, every radio
station comes in here and tells me howbad all the other radio stations are.
It must mean that they're all bad.
Kipper (08:23):
Yeah, I don't listen to it myself.
So why would I?
Tracy (08:26):
Yeah, and there's got to be a better story to tell than going in and
saying, here's how we're doing in theratings against other radio stations.
And most radio stationsstill have a very large QM.
And in most cases, they've got arelatively high percentage of that QM
(08:48):
that are P1s or fans of their stationthat we can have an influence on.
We need to tell the story aboutthe value of that audience.
And I also think that there has got tobe a come a time where broadcasters are
proud of what radio is, which is a media.
That appeals mostly to a more matureaudience, 45 plus, probably even
(09:12):
55 plus, but you still have salesdepartments who go into agencies and
basically apologize for appealingto anyone over the age of 54.
We're still talking about 25-54 mediabuys, and if you do the research, the
people over 55 control a disproportionateamount of spending that happens in
(09:36):
North America today, and they'rethe ones who love radio the most.
Kipper (09:41):
Absolutely, and Fidelity and Schwab don't mind reaching them.
Tracy (09:45):
Oh, nor does Mercedes.
Look at the artists, the musicartists who have sold their libraries
over the last few years and thehundreds of millions of dollars.
They're selling those libraries towho do they appeal to 55 plus the
Rolling Stones can get hundreds ofdollars per ticket for a concert tour.
How much does a new up and coming band?
(10:10):
They can't get nearlythat amount of money.
As the legacy bands that areappealing to fans with deeper
pockets and radio has those people.
We just need to tell that storyand tell that story differently.
Instead of telling it the waythat the ratings services have
positioned it to, to agencies.
Dave (10:29):
Yeah, there hasn't been a lot of innovation in, uh, The
sales department, that's for sure.
Tracy (10:34):
No, there hasn't.
And I go back when I was managing my groupof stations here in San Diego, 20 years
ago, I pulled out of the broadcast grouphere and all the stations got together and
said, how are we going to promote radio?
And I pulled out of it because.
We would all have these wonderfulmeetings about how we're going to raise
the profile of the media in San Diego.
(10:54):
And then the next day, everybody wasout saying, Hey, don't buy this station
because they're they're no good.
We're good.
And I said, this is ridiculous.
We can't have a meeting one daytalking about how we're going to
re rising tide lifts, all boats.
And everybody goes out the nextday and trashes each other.
Dave (11:08):
Good point.
No, it's an excellent point.
Tracy (11:10):
And we wouldn't do that.
And they would not stop doing it.
So I just pulled out of that becausewe told our story differently.
Dave (11:16):
And we're going to talk about younger audiences, I guess.
So Tracy, how can stations betterconnect with a younger audience?
We've talked about all thesefolks that are 55 and older
and radio does an excellent jobthere, but what about the future?
Tracy (11:32):
Well, there's very few broadcasters who.
would disagree with the statement thatcommercials on the radio are a problem
in attracting younger audiences, butnobody's willing to do anything about it.
And until somebody is willing todo something about it, we're not
going to get younger audiences.
I found in focus groups,younger listeners.
(11:55):
Really aren't angry at radio.
They don't dislike radio.
They just have no use for itbecause every time they turn it on,
there's commercials on all the time.
And then when they whenthe commercials come on one
station, they're okay with that.
They're going to tune out.
And when they tune out,they go to another station.
But every station, the marketsbow tied at exactly the same time.
(12:16):
So the impression we give them is thatevery station plays too many commercials.
It's just all at once.
And after a while, it's that fatigue thatsets in and they decide radios, not for
me, they play way too many commercials.
And that is true.
That's logically true that radiostations all do play too many
commercials, but we make it sound likewe play even more than we actually do
(12:39):
because of the way we use the radio.
So we got to fix that.
We got to fix, we got tostop chasing Nielsen ratings.
Or whatever the ratings are,raise our ratings in in Europe.
We gotta stop chasing thoseratings and chase fans.
We gotta go from how can we getanother quarter hour of listening
(13:00):
out of this meter respondent to howcan we build more fans for the brand?
And that's a very differentprogramming proposition.
And when we start looking at how canwe can build a larger fan base, I think
we have the potential of bringing someyounger people back to spending more time
with the radio, because again, they'renot against listening to the radio.
(13:21):
They like having the option.
They just.
We just do a lot of things that makeit hard for them to listen a lot.
Kipper (13:27):
Indeed.
So looking ahead, turning the coin, whatdo you think will be the most significant
changes and opportunities for peoplein radio in the next decade or so?
Tracy (13:40):
I think there that radio is fast approaching a tipping point that will
cause radical change to how stationsoperate, how they monetize their brands
and how they promote themselves and proand program themselves to an audience.
(14:02):
And I don't know exactly what that'sgoing to look like, but I think that
if you look at the big companieswho continue to cut budgets where
there's no more budgets to cut.
And they still keep finding ways thatthey started cutting into the bone
of these radio stations years ago.
I don't know how they can keep comingup and looking for another 7 percent
(14:23):
or 10 percent to take out of it.
They are getting down to takingout the very heart of what radio
stations offer to the audience.
And when it gets painful enough,A completely different approach
is going to have to set in.
And what that could lead to a renaissanceof the medium and a renaissance of some of
(14:44):
these brands, because the old traditionalmodels are no longer going to work.
There's a lot of markets in top10 and top 15, top 20 markets.
Where national buys have almost completelydisappeared because there are no
stations in those markets who qualifyfrom an average quarter hour standpoint
to get on national buys anymore.
(15:07):
Not the average quarter hour share, theaverage quarter hour rating, because
time spent listening and QM have droppedto the point where it's not worth it.
And then there's so muchnational inventory in the market.
Right.
From barter opportunities that therate on barter has come way down.
So there, there is a huge swellingproblem of declining revenues and lack of
(15:32):
innovation to, to turn that back around.
And when it gets painful enough,somebody is going to do something
interesting and innovative, or theare going to be a lot of stations
that go dark one at one or the other.
So what opportunities are there?
I think there are some reallytalented programmers and
personalities who have amazing skills.
(15:54):
They know how to tell stories.
They know how to motivate audiences.
They know how to drive a product.
They have all the skills.
That digital platforms arelooking for and are hungry for.
It's just applyingthose in different ways.
And I think there's tremendousopportunities that are
out there outside of.
The loudspeaker that isa broadcast transmitter.
(16:17):
It's just a matter of if the reallysmart ones are looking for ways to apply
those skills differently and by managingand controlling their own content.
Kipper (16:26):
Very good.
Okay.
Dave (16:27):
Excellent point.
We can all learn somethingfrom Tracy Johnson.
What a guy.
Hey, Stony, you'd love to hearfrom, we'd love to hear from you.
Send your suggestions to ouremail show at brandwithondemand.
com or reach out to us on socialBRANDwidth on Demand plus on
Instagram, Facebook, and Xthat's BRANDwidth, P L U S.
(16:52):
BRANDwidthPLUS.
Kipper (16:53):
And if you're new to the podcast, we want to say welcome.
We appreciate your listening and we wantto make sure you also hit that follow
button, wherever you get your podcasts.
And if you've been with usfor a while, please subscribe.
Feel free to tell a friend, Randwith OnDemand, wherever you get your podcasts.
Dave (17:13):
Coming up, Tracy Johnson explains a brand new show prep tool
that also helps with on air delivery,social media posts, and a lot more.
Spot1 (17:24):
I'm a music director at any radio station USA.
I do a five hour shift,hours of production, live
appearances out the Yazoo.
And oh yeah, my PD just heard twoslow songs back to back followed
by three of the same artist.
My station sounds like a dumpster fire.
If you have any other musicsuggestions, Scheduling software.
This could be you.
(17:46):
Musicmaster and your station will soundlike a well curated entertainment machine
and you could avoid mayhem like me.
Details at musicmaster.
com
VO (17:55):
Exploring media evolution in real time.
BRANDwidth on Demand.
Dave (18:00):
We are talking with broadcast innovator, Tracy Johnson.
Focusing this time on a brand newtool that your station's really going
to want, especially if you're stillwondering how to harness the power
of chat, GPT, and all that AI stuff.
Tracy, would you please explain to uswhat Radio Content Pro is all about?
Tracy (18:24):
I got involved with Radio Content Pro a couple of years ago when I was
asked by a company to help them developcontent for AI voices and AI bots.
And we worked on that for about sixmonths and we really nailed the content
part of it and that has developed andturned into a team of developers who
(18:44):
created AI bots that go all over theinternet, 24 hours a day, seven days
a day, 365 days a year and curate.
Targeted content that is customizedfor a variety of formats and brands.
There are currently seven productsin all, and two more that are coming
for Hispanic radio that'll be outhere in the next two or three weeks,
(19:08):
but the bots curate the content.
So they'll analyze everythingthat's in an article or a post.
And then curate it in 12 to 14 differentways for radio stations to be able to
use it, to benefit what they do on theair, online, on social media, gives
(19:28):
their personalities and all their contentcreators, unprecedented power to create
original entertainment, original content.
Kipper (19:37):
So with all of this information flying at me, like I'm Can you explain
how you break it down and make itusable for people on the station level?
Tracy (19:49):
No problem.
We've got a product that's targetedto CHR and hot AC stations.
It's called a radio content pro or RCPbuzz one for rock, which we call edge.
Another is for MainstreamAC, we call it Mainstream.
One for Christian formats,we call RCP Spirit.
(20:10):
Another one is for Hip Hop andRhythmic CHR, it's RCP Hip Hop.
Then there is one for NewsTalk that has recently come
out, it's RCP Info and Country.
And then the two new ones are goingto be two different services for
different versions of Hispanic radio.
(20:31):
And we have more coming.
We have a classic rock,classic hits coming.
We've got classic R& B.
Urban coming as well.
So there's something for every format andthen inside the format prompts that are
able to curate that content specificallyfor the brand or for the format that
you're in, you get some specific, uh,content based on your personality type,
(20:56):
whether you're edgy, mainstream, or familyfriendly on every single piece of content.
And we've just added a new bot.
That will personalize it even morespecifically for the individual
personality, where you can takeany piece of content, any tease.
Any news story any response, anyblog posts that is in radio content
(21:21):
pro and personalize it to getas specific as you want with it.
Kipper (21:24):
So if I'm doing a radio show and I want to have it focus on
certain things, how do I tell it whatI want to look at and what are the
things I will get as the end product?
Tracy (21:37):
The story that I'm excited about right now just came to me this
morning from one of our RCP infoaffiliates that's been using it for
about two weeks and said that what heloves about it is the sidekick feature.
That's the personalized AI bot sidekicklives in the bottom right corner
of every screen and you can clickon it and it opens up a dialogue.
(22:03):
You could say something like, I'm lookingto be more provocative with this content.
Can you give me some more phone topicsthat will anger this type of listener?
And it'll take thattopic and it'll juice it.
It'll make it more provocative.
Or another great use for that isif you're a good news station,
have you got a good news feature?
(22:24):
You're the glass is three quarters full.
Like if you're in a Christian format ora mainstream AC, you can take even the
most negative stories that are comingout and tell sidekick, I'm looking
for a positive spin on this story.
Find a nugget of information thatcan be a good news story and tell me
how I can share this with my audienceto make them feel good about it.
(22:44):
I mean, it comes back in justseconds with six, eight, 10
different pieces of content.
That the two things that I gotfrom this morning is one is
how Sidekick localizes content.
So if I'm in San Diego, Icould type in to Sidekick.
I want you to take this.
These topics and make them local for myaudience here, and it'll start dropping
(23:07):
in local employers and celebrities andlandmarks and businesses and neighborhoods
and communities and customizing thecontent to your community, which is
really powerful This morning, aBRANDwidth.
RCP info personality texted me andsaid, I've been using this on my talk
(23:27):
show for the last couple of weeks.
And what I'm doing now isasking it to argue with me.
I'll tell it what my pointof view or my perspective is.
And I'll ask, I'll tell sidekick, tell meall the reasons why I'm wrong about this.
And it brings up all the talking points,all the provocative talking points
that he wants to get his audience intowhen he goes on and does his talk show.
(23:52):
And he says it's the most valuable partthat he's been able to find with it.
And I never thoughtabout using it that way.
So I'm excited about all the differentways that our users are starting
to come up with to apply Sidekick.
Kipper (24:02):
Hey, some great stuff, Tracy.
Thanks for sharing it.
Dave (24:05):
Yeah, great stuff.
Tracy (24:07):
So now's the time if you want to put AI to work
for you, Not instead of you.
Here's a recap.
Spot2 (24:15):
Imagine having your own prep team working nonstop, a producer picking
the best content, a copywriter, makingevery story hit home and a marketer
finding new ways to grow your audience.
All while a digital team keeps your feedsfresh with posts, updates, and videos.
(24:36):
What if these pros were available24 seven market experience?
Exclusive and affordablefor your radio station.
Power up your content before thecompetition does with Radio Content Pro.
See the demo in action.
Just scroll down the shownotes or visit radiocontentpro.
(24:57):
com slash BRANDwidth on Demand
Dave (24:59):
our thanks to Tracy Johnson.
He's always got some fresh andinnovative thinking going on Kipper,
a special BRANDwidth on Demand Link.
To radio content pro is in the show notes.
Just scroll down on your phone orsimply visit radio content pro slash
BRANDwidth on Demand B R A N D W I B T H.
Kipper (25:21):
As always, we want to thank our exec producer, Cindy Huber, and
associate producer, Hannah B, for booking.
Dave (25:27):
That's a wrap, Kipper.
In One Minute Martinizing we'llbe talking about intention.
All it's important stuff.
What do you intend?
I'm Dave Martin.
Kipper (25:38):
And I'm Kipper McGee.
May all your BRANDwidth be Wide!.
Most stations are becoming relatively safer and
taking fewer chances than ever.
So I think radio needs to get a lotmore provocative, a lot more emotionally
connected and a lot more interesting.
VO (00:12):
BRANDwidth on Demand rebooting radio with a different take on all radio can be.
Tracy (00:19):
Nobody's innovating.
Nobody's doing something that.
Everyone agrees this makes sense andthis will work, and nobody will do it.
VO (00:27):
Now your guides through the mediamorphosis, David Martin, and author
of the book, BRANDwidth on Demand,media branding coach, Kipper McGee.
Dave (00:36):
Tracy Johnson is a legendary radio consultant with
over 30 years in the industry.
He's famous for his innovativemethods of boosting audiences
and revenue at the same time.
Tracy's helped numerous radiostations achieve great success.
top market positions.
He has a knack for creatingcompelling content and for
improving listener experiencing.
(00:56):
He has a knack for creatingcompelling content and
improving listener experiences.
It's made him a go to advisorfor radio pros around the world.
Tracy's insights and strategies areconstantly shaping the future of
radio, ensuring stations stay relevantand engaging in what is obviously
an ever changing media landscape.
(01:17):
Today, he's here to share somethingthat could change your life.
No, really.
Brandwith On Demand is proudto welcome Tracy Johnson.
Kipper (01:25):
Hey, Tracy.
Hey, Tracy.
Tracy (01:27):
Thank you.
It's good.
It's good to be talkingwith you, Dave and Kipper.
It's a pleasure to be on.
Kipper (01:31):
So question, you've been doing a lot of stuff, including, uh, all
the recent conventions and whatnot.
What are some of the key trendsyou're observing in radio programming,
especially over the past year,year and a half, two years.
How should young program director,content manager, whatever you
(01:52):
want to call them, how shouldthey be adapting to those changes?
Tracy (01:57):
That's a really complicated question, Kipper.
Kipper (02:00):
That's why I asked you.
Tracy (02:02):
I'll give you my overview on it.
I think that radio programming hasfallen backward over the past few years.
Not because it has declinedin quality or approach, but
because it hasn't moved forward.
In quality and approach in Dave's verycomplimentary and flattering intro,
(02:28):
talked about how I've been instrumentalin keeping radio stations relevant.
And I appreciate that.
But I don't think it's important tomake radio stations relevant today.
I think radio stationsare already relevant.
Everybody knows what to expect from them.
Relevant is no longer enough.
We have to be much more topof mind because if you look
(02:48):
at all of the statistics, timespent listening is going down.
Occasions are going down.
If you look at the rating services,they are having a harder and harder
time recruiting a sample that willparticipate with the rating system.
And the reason is because there are fewerand fewer people who are using radio.
And I think that the reasonis because radio programming
(03:10):
has gotten more conservative.
By comparison to the othermedia and the comparison I draw
is, uh, to network television.
Network television is justas well produced and well
written as it has ever been.
But if you go to some of the streamingservices and watch some of the
(03:31):
original series on Apple TV or Huluor Netflix or Peacock or any of the
other services and then come back andwatch a network television, uh, series.
It's not very interesting anymore.
Yeah.
The networks are still competingNBC versus ABC versus CBS are
competing for market share througha rating system instead of.
(03:55):
Relevance or importanceor top of mind awareness.
And I think the same thing is happeningwith radio programming today where
radio stations and broadcastersare measuring their success and how
well we're doing against other radiostations, not peeding for attention.
And we are competing withso many other things.
(04:18):
It's a, we're in an attention battle fortop of mind awareness yet in doing so
most stations are becoming relativelysafer and taking fewer chances than ever.
So, uh, I think radio needs to get a lotmore provocative, a lot more emotionally
connected and a lot more interesting.
Dave (04:37):
Well, Tracy, how do you see the role of radio evolving then?
What's the next step for radio?
Tracy (04:43):
Well, one of the things Kipper mentioned is what you would say to
young programmers that are coming in.
And I, what I would say toyoung programmers are be bold.
And I would say to legacy broadcasters.
Is, listen to them.
Listen to them and take when, when thethree of us were young programmers in our
(05:04):
twenties programming radio stations, theykind of gave us the keys to the radio
station and said, go, make it sound great.
Kipper (05:12):
Right...
Tracy (05:12):
and we were connected with what the audience was responding to at that time.
But if you get a young programmerin place now, someone without.
Decades of experience and wisdomand knowledge in the way that
traditional radio views suchthings, nobody listens to them.
It's execute the format that you'regiven, execute the plan that the
(05:34):
court, that the company is settingforth, basically saying, learn to
do it our way and don't screw up.
As opposed to go create somethingmagical that can happen and
attract a new audience to it.
And I think that there's beena creativity drain that is kind
of creating as a self fulfillingprophecy that nobody's taking any
(05:57):
meaningful steps to be more engaging.
Dave (06:03):
Risk averse.
Yeah,
Tracy (06:05):
Risk aversion is what's happening everywhere on radio.
Kipper (06:10):
Yeah.
And sadly, I have heard the positionof program director be referred to
in the past week as implementer.
Tracy (06:20):
Administrator and executor.
Kipper (06:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that is exactly what you're talkingabout, which is very frightening.
Cause if it weren't for the crazy cats,like the Norm WIner's at XRT and the
Jim Kerr's and some of those folksall the way back, it could have been a
pretty, uh, it could be pretty rough.
Tracy (06:40):
Yeah.
Well, if you play that out.
Look what happens.
You end up with a talent drainbecause you get the truly innovative,
creative programmers and personalitieswho get into radio because they
think it's going to be exciting andthey're going to make a difference.
They find out that they can't.
I'll just go start a YouTube channel.
Instead.
I'll start a podcast.
(07:00):
Instead.
I'll start being a video streamer instead,because these are creative people who have
other opportunities and other options.
In many cases, they are, they'remore creatively challenging.
And at the same time, a lot of timesthey're more lucrative financially because
broadcast budgets aren't getting larger.
They're getting smaller.
Kipper (07:22):
Absolutely.
So with the rise of all of those thingsfrom digital platforms to podcasts
and, everything else that's out there.
How do you see thetraditional role of radio?
Not how it's going to evolve, buthow would you like to see it evolve?
Tracy (07:40):
I would like to see it change the model for how radio
stations make their money.
Uh, because I, this all comesback to how the account executives
go out and sell advertising.
And we're still selling 30 and60 second ads to media buyers
who are buying traditional media.
And they're all speaking the same languagethat we've been speaking for 50 years.
(08:03):
Here's our spreadsheet.
Here's what our ratings are.
Here's how we're doingagainst the other stations.
Don't buy these other radio stations.
Buy ours instead.
We're good.
They're bad.
And the net effect of that at agenciesall over the world is Man, every radio
station comes in here and tells me howbad all the other radio stations are.
It must mean that they're all bad.
Kipper (08:23):
Yeah, I don't listen to it myself.
So why would I?
Tracy (08:26):
Yeah, and there's got to be a better story to tell than going in and
saying, here's how we're doing in theratings against other radio stations.
And most radio stationsstill have a very large QM.
And in most cases, they've got arelatively high percentage of that QM
(08:48):
that are P1s or fans of their stationthat we can have an influence on.
We need to tell the story aboutthe value of that audience.
And I also think that there has got tobe a come a time where broadcasters are
proud of what radio is, which is a media.
That appeals mostly to a more matureaudience, 45 plus, probably even
(09:12):
55 plus, but you still have salesdepartments who go into agencies and
basically apologize for appealingto anyone over the age of 54.
We're still talking about 25-54 mediabuys, and if you do the research, the
people over 55 control a disproportionateamount of spending that happens in
(09:36):
North America today, and they'rethe ones who love radio the most.
Kipper (09:41):
Absolutely, and Fidelity and Schwab don't mind reaching them.
Tracy (09:45):
Oh, nor does Mercedes.
Look at the artists, the musicartists who have sold their libraries
over the last few years and thehundreds of millions of dollars.
They're selling those libraries towho do they appeal to 55 plus the
Rolling Stones can get hundreds ofdollars per ticket for a concert tour.
How much does a new up and coming band?
(10:10):
They can't get nearlythat amount of money.
As the legacy bands that areappealing to fans with deeper
pockets and radio has those people.
We just need to tell that storyand tell that story differently.
Instead of telling it the waythat the ratings services have
positioned it to, to agencies.
Dave (10:29):
Yeah, there hasn't been a lot of innovation in, uh, The
sales department, that's for sure.
Tracy (10:34):
No, there hasn't.
And I go back when I was managing my groupof stations here in San Diego, 20 years
ago, I pulled out of the broadcast grouphere and all the stations got together and
said, how are we going to promote radio?
And I pulled out of it because.
We would all have these wonderfulmeetings about how we're going to raise
the profile of the media in San Diego.
(10:54):
And then the next day, everybody wasout saying, Hey, don't buy this station
because they're they're no good.
We're good.
And I said, this is ridiculous.
We can't have a meeting one daytalking about how we're going to
re rising tide lifts, all boats.
And everybody goes out the nextday and trashes each other.
Dave (11:08):
Good point.
No, it's an excellent point.
Tracy (11:10):
And we wouldn't do that.
And they would not stop doing it.
So I just pulled out of that becausewe told our story differently.
Dave (11:16):
And we're going to talk about younger audiences, I guess.
So Tracy, how can stations betterconnect with a younger audience?
We've talked about all thesefolks that are 55 and older
and radio does an excellent jobthere, but what about the future?
Tracy (11:32):
Well, there's very few broadcasters who.
would disagree with the statement thatcommercials on the radio are a problem
in attracting younger audiences, butnobody's willing to do anything about it.
And until somebody is willing todo something about it, we're not
going to get younger audiences.
I found in focus groups,younger listeners.
(11:55):
Really aren't angry at radio.
They don't dislike radio.
They just have no use for itbecause every time they turn it on,
there's commercials on all the time.
And then when they whenthe commercials come on one
station, they're okay with that.
They're going to tune out.
And when they tune out,they go to another station.
But every station, the marketsbow tied at exactly the same time.
(12:16):
So the impression we give them is thatevery station plays too many commercials.
It's just all at once.
And after a while, it's that fatigue thatsets in and they decide radios, not for
me, they play way too many commercials.
And that is true.
That's logically true that radiostations all do play too many
commercials, but we make it sound likewe play even more than we actually do
(12:39):
because of the way we use the radio.
So we got to fix that.
We got to fix, we got tostop chasing Nielsen ratings.
Or whatever the ratings are,raise our ratings in in Europe.
We gotta stop chasing thoseratings and chase fans.
We gotta go from how can we getanother quarter hour of listening
(13:00):
out of this meter respondent to howcan we build more fans for the brand?
And that's a very differentprogramming proposition.
And when we start looking at how canwe can build a larger fan base, I think
we have the potential of bringing someyounger people back to spending more time
with the radio, because again, they'renot against listening to the radio.
(13:21):
They like having the option.
They just.
We just do a lot of things that makeit hard for them to listen a lot.
Kipper (13:27):
Indeed.
So looking ahead, turning the coin, whatdo you think will be the most significant
changes and opportunities for peoplein radio in the next decade or so?
Tracy (13:40):
I think there that radio is fast approaching a tipping point that will
cause radical change to how stationsoperate, how they monetize their brands
and how they promote themselves and proand program themselves to an audience.
(14:02):
And I don't know exactly what that'sgoing to look like, but I think that
if you look at the big companieswho continue to cut budgets where
there's no more budgets to cut.
And they still keep finding ways thatthey started cutting into the bone
of these radio stations years ago.
I don't know how they can keep comingup and looking for another 7 percent
(14:23):
or 10 percent to take out of it.
They are getting down to takingout the very heart of what radio
stations offer to the audience.
And when it gets painful enough,A completely different approach
is going to have to set in.
And what that could lead to a renaissanceof the medium and a renaissance of some of
(14:44):
these brands, because the old traditionalmodels are no longer going to work.
There's a lot of markets in top10 and top 15, top 20 markets.
Where national buys have almost completelydisappeared because there are no
stations in those markets who qualifyfrom an average quarter hour standpoint
to get on national buys anymore.
(15:07):
Not the average quarter hour share, theaverage quarter hour rating, because
time spent listening and QM have droppedto the point where it's not worth it.
And then there's so muchnational inventory in the market.
Right.
From barter opportunities that therate on barter has come way down.
So there, there is a huge swellingproblem of declining revenues and lack of
(15:32):
innovation to, to turn that back around.
And when it gets painful enough,somebody is going to do something
interesting and innovative, or theare going to be a lot of stations
that go dark one at one or the other.
So what opportunities are there?
I think there are some reallytalented programmers and
personalities who have amazing skills.
(15:54):
They know how to tell stories.
They know how to motivate audiences.
They know how to drive a product.
They have all the skills.
That digital platforms arelooking for and are hungry for.
It's just applyingthose in different ways.
And I think there's tremendousopportunities that are
out there outside of.
The loudspeaker that isa broadcast transmitter.
(16:17):
It's just a matter of if the reallysmart ones are looking for ways to apply
those skills differently and by managingand controlling their own content.
Kipper (16:26):
Very good.
Okay.
Dave (16:27):
Excellent point.
We can all learn somethingfrom Tracy Johnson.
What a guy.
Hey, Stony, you'd love to hearfrom, we'd love to hear from you.
Send your suggestions to ouremail show at brandwithondemand.
com or reach out to us on socialBRANDwidth on Demand plus on
Instagram, Facebook, and Xthat's BRANDwidth, P L U S.
(16:52):
BRANDwidthPLUS.
Kipper (16:53):
And if you're new to the podcast, we want to say welcome.
We appreciate your listening and we wantto make sure you also hit that follow
button, wherever you get your podcasts.
And if you've been with usfor a while, please subscribe.
Feel free to tell a friend, Randwith OnDemand, wherever you get your podcasts.
Dave (17:13):
Coming up, Tracy Johnson explains a brand new show prep tool
that also helps with on air delivery,social media posts, and a lot more.
Spot1 (17:24):
I'm a music director at any radio station USA.
I do a five hour shift,hours of production, live
appearances out the Yazoo.
And oh yeah, my PD just heard twoslow songs back to back followed
by three of the same artist.
My station sounds like a dumpster fire.
If you have any other musicsuggestions, Scheduling software.
This could be you.
(17:46):
Musicmaster and your station will soundlike a well curated entertainment machine
and you could avoid mayhem like me.
Details at musicmaster.
com
VO (17:55):
Exploring media evolution in real time.
BRANDwidth on Demand.
Dave (18:00):
We are talking with broadcast innovator, Tracy Johnson.
Focusing this time on a brand newtool that your station's really going
to want, especially if you're stillwondering how to harness the power
of chat, GPT, and all that AI stuff.
Tracy, would you please explain to uswhat Radio Content Pro is all about?
Tracy (18:24):
I got involved with Radio Content Pro a couple of years ago when I was
asked by a company to help them developcontent for AI voices and AI bots.
And we worked on that for about sixmonths and we really nailed the content
part of it and that has developed andturned into a team of developers who
(18:44):
created AI bots that go all over theinternet, 24 hours a day, seven days
a day, 365 days a year and curate.
Targeted content that is customizedfor a variety of formats and brands.
There are currently seven productsin all, and two more that are coming
for Hispanic radio that'll be outhere in the next two or three weeks,
(19:08):
but the bots curate the content.
So they'll analyze everythingthat's in an article or a post.
And then curate it in 12 to 14 differentways for radio stations to be able to
use it, to benefit what they do on theair, online, on social media, gives
(19:28):
their personalities and all their contentcreators, unprecedented power to create
original entertainment, original content.
Kipper (19:37):
So with all of this information flying at me, like I'm Can you explain
how you break it down and make itusable for people on the station level?
Tracy (19:49):
No problem.
We've got a product that's targetedto CHR and hot AC stations.
It's called a radio content pro or RCPbuzz one for rock, which we call edge.
Another is for MainstreamAC, we call it Mainstream.
One for Christian formats,we call RCP Spirit.
(20:10):
Another one is for Hip Hop andRhythmic CHR, it's RCP Hip Hop.
Then there is one for NewsTalk that has recently come
out, it's RCP Info and Country.
And then the two new ones are goingto be two different services for
different versions of Hispanic radio.
(20:31):
And we have more coming.
We have a classic rock,classic hits coming.
We've got classic R& B.
Urban coming as well.
So there's something for every format andthen inside the format prompts that are
able to curate that content specificallyfor the brand or for the format that
you're in, you get some specific, uh,content based on your personality type,
(20:56):
whether you're edgy, mainstream, or familyfriendly on every single piece of content.
And we've just added a new bot.
That will personalize it even morespecifically for the individual
personality, where you can takeany piece of content, any tease.
Any news story any response, anyblog posts that is in radio content
(21:21):
pro and personalize it to getas specific as you want with it.
Kipper (21:24):
So if I'm doing a radio show and I want to have it focus on
certain things, how do I tell it whatI want to look at and what are the
things I will get as the end product?
Tracy (21:37):
The story that I'm excited about right now just came to me this
morning from one of our RCP infoaffiliates that's been using it for
about two weeks and said that what heloves about it is the sidekick feature.
That's the personalized AI bot sidekicklives in the bottom right corner
of every screen and you can clickon it and it opens up a dialogue.
(22:03):
You could say something like, I'm lookingto be more provocative with this content.
Can you give me some more phone topicsthat will anger this type of listener?
And it'll take thattopic and it'll juice it.
It'll make it more provocative.
Or another great use for that isif you're a good news station,
have you got a good news feature?
(22:24):
You're the glass is three quarters full.
Like if you're in a Christian format ora mainstream AC, you can take even the
most negative stories that are comingout and tell sidekick, I'm looking
for a positive spin on this story.
Find a nugget of information thatcan be a good news story and tell me
how I can share this with my audienceto make them feel good about it.
(22:44):
I mean, it comes back in justseconds with six, eight, 10
different pieces of content.
That the two things that I gotfrom this morning is one is
how Sidekick localizes content.
So if I'm in San Diego, Icould type in to Sidekick.
I want you to take this.
These topics and make them local for myaudience here, and it'll start dropping
(23:07):
in local employers and celebrities andlandmarks and businesses and neighborhoods
and communities and customizing thecontent to your community, which is
really powerful This morning, aBRANDwidth.
RCP info personality texted me andsaid, I've been using this on my talk
(23:27):
show for the last couple of weeks.
And what I'm doing now isasking it to argue with me.
I'll tell it what my pointof view or my perspective is.
And I'll ask, I'll tell sidekick, tell meall the reasons why I'm wrong about this.
And it brings up all the talking points,all the provocative talking points
that he wants to get his audience intowhen he goes on and does his talk show.
(23:52):
And he says it's the most valuable partthat he's been able to find with it.
And I never thoughtabout using it that way.
So I'm excited about all the differentways that our users are starting
to come up with to apply Sidekick.
Kipper (24:02):
Hey, some great stuff, Tracy.
Thanks for sharing it.
Dave (24:05):
Yeah, great stuff.
Tracy (24:07):
So now's the time if you want to put AI to work
for you, Not instead of you.
Here's a recap.
Spot2 (24:15):
Imagine having your own prep team working nonstop, a producer picking
the best content, a copywriter, makingevery story hit home and a marketer
finding new ways to grow your audience.
All while a digital team keeps your feedsfresh with posts, updates, and videos.
(24:36):
What if these pros were available24 seven market experience?
Exclusive and affordablefor your radio station.
Power up your content before thecompetition does with Radio Content Pro.
See the demo in action.
Just scroll down the shownotes or visit radiocontentpro.
(24:57):
com slash BRANDwidth on Demand
Dave (24:59):
our thanks to Tracy Johnson.
He's always got some fresh andinnovative thinking going on Kipper,
a special BRANDwidth on Demand Link.
To radio content pro is in the show notes.
Just scroll down on your phone orsimply visit radio content pro slash
BRANDwidth on Demand B R A N D W I B T H.
Kipper (25:21):
As always, we want to thank our exec producer, Cindy Huber, and
associate producer, Hannah B, for booking.
Dave (25:27):
That's a wrap, Kipper.
In One Minute Martinizing we'llbe talking about intention.
All it's important stuff.
What do you intend?
I'm Dave Martin.
Kipper (25:38):
And I'm Kipper McGee.
May all your BRANDwidth be Wide!.
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