October 19, 2023 • 20 mins
Harry Lyles is an accomplished multi-format programmer and is widely recognized as the foremost expert in all forms of Hip Hop, R&B, Rhythmic, Rhythmic AC and Gospel.
As president of Lyles Media, Harry has been the programming partner for some of the most prominent broadcasting and media companies in the business. He’s well known for positioning companies for expansion and rapid development while helping broadcasters understand a better ratings story to help generate more revenue.
Harry’s standout programming career is marked by cutting-edge strategies, stellar brand-building skills, and achieving and sustaining market share by building inspired station teams. When programming connects with your local audience, ratings and revenue will follow.
In this episode, Harry shares insights to help radio people UP THEIR GAME for 2022, by focusing on some of the basics sorely overlooked in our era of consolidation,
Key Takeaways You Won't Want to Miss
[01:58] Harry discusses the very first signs he looks for to see whether a radio station is likely to succeed or not, and what to do about it.
[04:02] Breaking some complex concepts into bite-sized doses, Harry offers some pointers from his Radio Ratings Problem Solving Method, and how “A Self Reflection” can be a good, easy and free starting point for anyone.
[08:59] Harry reminds us of what Radio's first job should be, and provides some pointers on how to make sure your station is doing it. (Spoiler: Many are not!)
[11:04] As a radio veteran who works with many stations in a wide variety of markets, Harry is consistently baffled by one key thing most broadcasters don't do. He shares how it can happen, and reminds us of a secret that will correct this and grow your career!
Read Dave Martin's ONE-MINUTE MARTIZING on "INTENTION" HERE
Brandwidth on Demand is provided FREE, thanks to these supporters:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Harry (00:00):
What happened?
Why did this happen?
Is this going to be a revolution ofchange or an evolution of change?
Welcome to Brand With On Demand,your guide to rebooting radio.
One of the things I've noticed throughthe years is that a lot of program
directors have a tendency to taketheir hands off the steering wheel.
(00:20):
And when you take your handsoff the steering wheel, Fades.
Yeah.
Fades will happen.
Okay.
Yeah,
VO (00:30):
BRANDwidth on Demand.
Rebooting radio with a differenttake on all radio can be.
Now your guides through the metamorphosis.
David Martin and author ofthe book, BRANDwidth, Media
Branding, coach Kipper McGee.
Dave (00:46):
Harry lyles is an accomplished multi format programmer.
He's widely recognized as the foremostexpert in all forms of hip hop, R&
B, rhythmic, rhythmic AC, and gospel.
He covers the base.
As president of Lyles Media, Harry hasbeen the programming partner for some
of the most prominent broadcastingand media companies in the business.
(01:09):
He's been named to the National BlackRadio Hall of Fame and is well known.
We're positioning companies for expansionand rapid development while helping
broadcasters understand a better ratingstory to help generate a better revenue.
Harry's standout programming career ismarked by cutting edge strategy, stellar
brand building skills, and achievingand sustaining, most important, market
(01:33):
share by building inspired station teams.
When programming concepts with your localaudience happen and ratings and revenue
follow, It's all about hiring Harry.
That's what we say.
And he's with us todayon Branded on Demand.
We're proud to welcome theone and only Harry Lyles.
Harry (01:53):
Glad to be here, guys.
Thanks a lot.
Kipper (01:55):
Well, we are so glad you're here, Harry.
Harry (01:57):
Thanks.
Kipper (01:58):
So, first question.
You've been doing this for a while.
You're advising a lot ofdifferent stations and companies.
So, when you first walk into aradio station, what do you look for?
And how can you tell if they'reprobably doing okay, or if they're
gonna need a lot of your attention?
Harry (02:18):
Great question.
The first thing I do, I have a onepage questionnaire that I send in.
And that questionnaire is Is basicallyasking them, what is your objective
for the format or vision of the format?
And of course, when you do that, you wantto make sure that they have some kind
(02:38):
of an understanding of the demographicsthat they're going to go after.
The music that should be played for thatdemographic, have a conversation with
them about talent, have a conversationwith them about their special programming,
contest and promotion, and alsocommunity affairs and social media.
But what's the foundation of any greatradio station is going to be the music.
(03:03):
I have learned through the years,if you can get those two things tied
together and let them work together,you're probably going to have
yourself a pretty good radio station.
I think one of the things, guys,that happens today, I've noticed
there in some of the projects thatI've done with clients and non
clients, that there's a disconnect.
And a lot of people want tosay, well, It's a PPM situation.
(03:27):
Disconnect.
I disagree with that.
And when I look at the Nielsen PPMnumbers, I see a consistency from
large, medium to small markets.
So when I first go in, it's importantfor me to do one thing, ask questions
and then help them put those piecestogether to help them move forward
(03:48):
and meet that objective or visionthat they have for the station.
And it's not hard.
Again, it's the basics.
That are gonna take to do one thing andthat's score in something called Nielsen.
Yeah.
Dave (04:02):
Yeah, one of the great things we've noticed about your method, Harry, is you
have an uncanny ability to break thingsdown into little bite sized pieces.
We were intrigued by your veryspecial radio ratings problem solving
method, which starts with what youcall a self reflection, can you?
Expand on that for
Harry (04:22):
us.
Yeah, one of the things that I've noticedfrom station to station to station, the in
house situation is a little bit different.
Even sometimes, guys, when I ask aprogram director, operations manager, or
general manager, well, what do you likeabout your, especially if, maybe the
station's, you know, off a little bit, orthey think that it's off a little bit and
(04:44):
they think that they're having problems.
One of the questions I like to ask well,okay, you think you have a problem, but is
there anything here that you would keep?
Because I think that's avery important question.
We can sit here and self reflecton all the elements and everything
that ties a radio station together.
But one of the things that I've noticedthrough the years is that a lot of
(05:06):
program directors have a tendency totake their hands off the steering wheel.
And when you take your handsoff the steering wheel,
things, things will happen.
Okay?
Yeah, so all of a sudden theimpact that was there, I just
did a project two weeks ago.
For a very large size market that used tobe a dominant station, and they're now in
(05:29):
the threes, but it was all self inflicted.
In other words, musically,they have a problem.
They have a talent issue.
They haven't done any contestand promotion in over two years.
They downgraded their morning,their legendary morning guy left.
And here's what happened.
Instead of hiring his equalor upgrading, they downgraded.
(05:53):
And the morning show has now lost70 percent of their audience.
My point being that didn't haveto happen, but it happened.
Now, can you fix that?
Well, you know, when it comes to theself reflection of looking at what a
radio station is doing from a talentstandpoint, that's a mistake you really
(06:13):
want to avoid making if all possible.
I want to share something with you guysbecause I remember when, when the Patriots
won the Super, the last Super Bowl herein Atlanta on the CBS morning news.
They had Bob Kraft and they were talkingabout to Bob Kraft, like, why are you, why
are the Patriots so consistent in winningand you've been to the Super Bowl the
(06:36):
past 10, 15 years, more so than anybodyelse, I never will forget his response.
Here's what he said.
It doesn't matter if it's on theoffensive side of the ball or
the defensive side of the ball.
Every time we have to replace aplayer, if we don't re sign one,
we upgrade that side of the ball.
Hey guys, that's, that's whatwe should do in radio, okay?
(06:59):
But that doesn't always happen.
When it comes to self reflecting, a lotof times, in, look, it, it, it starts
right there inside that radio station.
The ones who are closest to it.
Should be able to figure out what'shappening, but again, when you
take your hands off the steeringwheel, she will go off the road.
So the self reflecting partand the most important part
(07:23):
of this is asking questions.
What happened?
Why did this happen?
Is this going to be a revolution ofchange or an evolution of change?
And usually, guys, it gets down to eitheran evolution or a revolution of change.
When there's a ratings problem.
And
Kipper (07:43):
hopefully not dropping our salary cap any more than we have to, huh?
Harry (07:48):
That's right.
Right.
See, the thing is this.
I'm amazed at some people who areconfused about their objective.
I've run into a couple of situationswhere you still have some general
managers and program directorsand even operations managers.
They want, they want to take a formatand be all things to all people.
(08:10):
Well, I had some pretty good teachers.
That's not the way it works.
Okay.
If you can dominate two demographics,you can spread yourself out
and become a pretty good radiostation, regardless of format.
I was just talking to a rockfriend of mine the other day.
And, uh, he was telling me aboutthe appeal of his classic hit
station, but he knew where theepicenter of his format was.
(08:33):
That's the reason why he's successful.
Great
Kipper (08:36):
word.
And one of the things too, thatyou're always talking about is
really, in addition to knowing whoyou're talking to is knowing who
you've got on board and really.
Building that encouraging kind of winningattitude like Belichick has done, but
you want that throughout the station.
(08:57):
So question number one is what aresome of the best ways for, say, a
new program director to do that?
And number two, what do you do when likehalf your air staff is coming in from
other markets via voice track or whatever?
How do you build that winningthing with people that you
Harry (09:17):
never see?
Well, I'm going to be up front with his,if you and Dave were clients, Kepper,
I'm not a fan of voice tracking, right?
I believe that one of radio'sbiggest problems is we have
taken the companionship.
Out of the business of radioand I think listeners are smart.
I give them credit.
I can't remember the last time I heardsomebody screaming because of a contest
(09:40):
where they won something it needsto come back Something else again.
I'm not a huge voice track person I thinkone of the things that's happened in radio
is I consider all day parts important.
Okay.
I know some people say well We wantto spend the money in morning and
afternoon and we'll kind of Figureout what to do in the other day.
(10:01):
Parts winning radio stationsare consistent in mornings.
They're consistent in mid days.
They're consistent inafternoons and nights.
Okay.
And it doesn't work any other way.
There are no shortcuts to thisand I, I have diplomatically had
to tell a few people where I didsome projects and they even had
(10:22):
studies that there are no shortcuts.
One of the things that whenit comes to program directors.
And, and, and I don't know why this ishappening and I'm assuming it's a new
day, new breed of program director.
They don't know their market.
They don't read and they don't sit thereand invert the numbers and Nielsen to
(10:44):
find out why they're losing audience.
Even when there's a research study in thepast 8 months, give you just 1 example.
I did 2 medium sized markets.
They had done a research project.
And both program directorsthought that the epicenter of
their audience was 18 to 34.
Well, based on their own in houseresearch, hey guys, one market,
(11:09):
the audience started at 35, andthe other market started at 40.
Yeah.
And so I pointed out, I said,here's your problem right here.
Yeah.
Somebody hasn't read your own study.
Bingo.
But it happens, guys.
It happens.
Harry, for
Dave (11:28):
somebody just starting out, maybe in their first or second job,
what advice would you give them?
What suggestions would you havefor them when they're ready
to take that next big step?
Harry (11:39):
I will use myself as an example.
For that person that is starting out,I want them to know that used to be me.
And I was lucky.
I was very lucky.
I worked for some winning radio stations.
First off, I worked at...
Three winning radio stations in myhometown of Evansville, Indiana.
Great, great management,great program directors.
(12:01):
But again, I want to say thisand I say it respectfully.
That was a different day in radio.
Okay, even when my first job wasat a country station in Evansville,
Indiana, WROZ, Jim Emery, who was theprogram director, he came to talk to
our class, and he offered some of usto cut an audition, and I did one.
(12:22):
Great.
I did one.
And guess what happened?
I got a job.
Yay.
And so, my job was, I got torun the Ralph Emery show, from
that, that was on, on disc.
So anyway, then BloomingtonBroadcasting bought an old MOR station.
(12:44):
And so I applied there, and got the 10 2position, and worked with two legendary
guys that you guys probably know.
Jim Wood, who later was thenational guy at Mallwright.
Oh yeah.
And Buddy Scott, whoworked at, uh, CBN TV.
Right.
B96, yeah.
You betcha.
I'll stop right there.
Meeting those two guys in littlebitty Evansville, Indiana,
(13:08):
helped me start my career.
I watched, I asked questions.
I can remember Buddy and Jimsaid, Hey, you're asking too
many damn questions, okay?
But guys, I did itbecause I wanted to know.
And again, as Jim explained,hey, we're a new station.
This thing will unfoldthe longer you're here.
And of course, it was very tight, okay?
(13:28):
Mm hmm.
And I didn't understand at thetime playing a record every
75 minutes at the time, right?
Then all of a sudden 75 minuteswent to 90 then 90 went to about 210
or 215 Yeah, I was like, oh, okay.
So this is part of the chemistry ofwhat how radio works So for anybody
who is beginning I was lucky.
(13:50):
There's a lot of fool's gold out therenowadays, but at the same time, there
are still some good broadcasters,program directors, operations managers
and GMs who are interested in teachingthe next generation coming up.
I enjoy teaching the next generation.
I get to Georgia State at leastthree times a year to talk to
(14:10):
the broadcasting school there.
I am noticing something though in theclassroom when I was in Columbus, Miami.
St.
Louis, Louisville, Columbus,and Cleveland, and would talk
to college students and evensome high school classes.
Radios doesn't seem to be as sexy to them.
(14:32):
As it was back when I wasin the in the 80s and 90s.
Okay.
Absolutely.
And there's a reason for that.
Most of the questions comeabout streaming, podcasting.
In other words, there'snothing wrong with that.
But it has kind of diluted theinterests of something called radio.
(14:54):
Mm hmm.
But I don't think that that has to happen.
No.
And as I've told a couple of my friends.
I think that everything that has happenedto radio has been self inflicted by
companies who own radio stations.
There's a, there's a reason why somestations are successful and companies
are successful and some are not.
(15:15):
And again, I'll say it one more time.
There are no shortcuts to this.
We talked about BillBelichick and Robert Kraft.
There's a reason why thoseguys have been where they are.
It's the same thing as I've hadto say to a couple of program
directors who are into sports.
There's a reason why the Golden StateWarriors have done what they've done.
They've got a good coach and theyknow how to put a team together.
(15:37):
And so when it comes to our team inradio, I believe, you know, some people
say, well, if you can get that morningengine, that guy, or that, that team in
the mornings, good things will happen.
What sure it does.
I think today we cannot take anychances in midday afternoons or night.
So when you put those.
pieces together, and when they arelocked in together, guess what happens?
(16:03):
You get attention, the pieces areworking together, and I will tell you
this, I think the listeners hear that.
I know right here in Atlanta, whenI go to get gas or stop by a quick
mart or whatever, and somebody'sgot a radio on, I'll ask them, Why
are you listening to that station?
And usually, nine times out of ten, it'sa station that's a top three, top five.
(16:25):
And they're doing a good job at doing onething that's satisfying their audience
great stuff And guys, it doesn't matterwhat format it is as I was talking
to a rock friend of mine on the westcoast last week It doesn't matter.
You know, the basics are thebasic when the pieces are working
together good things happen A
Dave (16:42):
terrific guy.
Harry Lyles.
Hey, somebody you'd like to hear from.
We'd love to hear your suggestions.
Email
Harry (16:49):
them to show at brandwithondemand.
com.
Kipper (16:52):
And we've got some new social media platforms to check out.
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn.
All you have to do islook for Brandwith Plus.
That's Brandwith P L U S.
One word and we look forward to seeingwhat you have to say when you're there
Dave (17:11):
coming up Harry share some opportunities that many including
us may find hiding in plain
Spot (17:17):
sight Music master less stress more.
Yes.
Hi, this is Jerry Butler for the teamat music master One of my favorite
tips for classic format programmersis to use the breakable one day,
one hour offset rule for artists.
Keywords.
It's not just for songs.
That way your listeners won'thave the same sampling of
artists each time they tune in.
(17:38):
And we turn the variety knob
Harry (17:39):
up to 11.
Spot (17:40):
Music master music scheduling the way it
Harry (17:43):
should be.
musicmaster.
Spot (17:50):
com.
Kipper (17:51):
Hey there, Kemper here.
So You want to have some great merchandisefor your radio station, but the
budget says, uh, we've got a solution.
Radio swag shop.
It's simple.
You select the items, give them your logo.
They create a store for you.
You link to it, you promote it, andyou sit back and collect the cash.
(18:14):
Budget short.
Radio Swag Shop is your answer.
Just go to radioswagshop.
com forward slash kipper.
My name, radioswagshop.
com forward slash kipper.
Your ratings and bottom line will
Spot (18:29):
thank you.
Opportunities
VO (18:31):
hidden in plain sight.
Bread with on demand.
Dave (18:36):
We are with one of the best and brightest, Harry Lyles.
Harry, thinking about traditionalradio, What's the one opportunity?
that you see that many stationpeople, no matter market size,
might find hiding in plain sight.
Harry (18:54):
Well, what's hiding in plain sight is something that you can hear
with your ears, and it's called theoverall essence of the radio station.
Once you grasp what your vision,I'll say it one more time.
The vision are the objective of thestation, and you know what's happening.
You don't know what's happening, butyou should know what's happening.
(19:15):
And some program directors say,well, I might know what's happening.
But the question is, you must knowwhat's happening for one thing to happen.
And that's for that radiostation to do one thing.
Have, have listeners and those localsto wake up with it every morning, get in
the car with it, eat breakfast with it.
(19:36):
When, again, the stationpieces are connected.
From a music standpoint, talentstandpoint, marketing, social media, you
create an impact because that's calledengagement and that's what listeners want.
Terrific
Dave (19:49):
guy, Kipper.
Harry Lyles, links to his websitesand more in the show notes,
just scroll down on your phone.
Kipper (19:55):
Also, we've got a special handout going out the first quarter of this year.
It's Seth Godin's 22 quotes thatevery radio person should know.
For 2022, just check the show notesas always, thanks to executive
producer, Cindy Huber for puttingthis all together and our associate
(20:16):
producer, Hannah B for handling theguest bookings and coming up next.
Spot (20:21):
Hi,
Erica (20:22):
I'm Erica Mandy with the newsworthy podcast.
I'm going to be sharing how you canmake your newscasts more objective and
gain more trust from your audience.
That's coming up nexton brand with on demand.
Harry (20:31):
That's a wrap Kipper.
Heritage,
Dave (20:34):
history, all that good stuff in the rear view mirror may
help you next week or tomorrow.
We'll talk about it.
One Minute Martinizing in theshow notes at brandwithondemand.
com.
I'm Dave Martin.
And I'm
Spot (20:47):
Kipper McGee.
May all your brand with be wide.
What happened?
Why did this happen?
Is this going to be a revolution ofchange or an evolution of change?
Welcome to Brand With On Demand,your guide to rebooting radio.
One of the things I've noticed throughthe years is that a lot of program
directors have a tendency to taketheir hands off the steering wheel.
(00:20):
And when you take your handsoff the steering wheel, Fades.
Yeah.
Fades will happen.
Okay.
Yeah,
VO (00:30):
BRANDwidth on Demand.
Rebooting radio with a differenttake on all radio can be.
Now your guides through the metamorphosis.
David Martin and author ofthe book, BRANDwidth, Media
Branding, coach Kipper McGee.
Dave (00:46):
Harry lyles is an accomplished multi format programmer.
He's widely recognized as the foremostexpert in all forms of hip hop, R&
B, rhythmic, rhythmic AC, and gospel.
He covers the base.
As president of Lyles Media, Harry hasbeen the programming partner for some
of the most prominent broadcastingand media companies in the business.
(01:09):
He's been named to the National BlackRadio Hall of Fame and is well known.
We're positioning companies for expansionand rapid development while helping
broadcasters understand a better ratingstory to help generate a better revenue.
Harry's standout programming career ismarked by cutting edge strategy, stellar
brand building skills, and achievingand sustaining, most important, market
(01:33):
share by building inspired station teams.
When programming concepts with your localaudience happen and ratings and revenue
follow, It's all about hiring Harry.
That's what we say.
And he's with us todayon Branded on Demand.
We're proud to welcome theone and only Harry Lyles.
Harry (01:53):
Glad to be here, guys.
Thanks a lot.
Kipper (01:55):
Well, we are so glad you're here, Harry.
Harry (01:57):
Thanks.
Kipper (01:58):
So, first question.
You've been doing this for a while.
You're advising a lot ofdifferent stations and companies.
So, when you first walk into aradio station, what do you look for?
And how can you tell if they'reprobably doing okay, or if they're
gonna need a lot of your attention?
Harry (02:18):
Great question.
The first thing I do, I have a onepage questionnaire that I send in.
And that questionnaire is Is basicallyasking them, what is your objective
for the format or vision of the format?
And of course, when you do that, you wantto make sure that they have some kind
(02:38):
of an understanding of the demographicsthat they're going to go after.
The music that should be played for thatdemographic, have a conversation with
them about talent, have a conversationwith them about their special programming,
contest and promotion, and alsocommunity affairs and social media.
But what's the foundation of any greatradio station is going to be the music.
(03:03):
I have learned through the years,if you can get those two things tied
together and let them work together,you're probably going to have
yourself a pretty good radio station.
I think one of the things, guys,that happens today, I've noticed
there in some of the projects thatI've done with clients and non
clients, that there's a disconnect.
And a lot of people want tosay, well, It's a PPM situation.
(03:27):
Disconnect.
I disagree with that.
And when I look at the Nielsen PPMnumbers, I see a consistency from
large, medium to small markets.
So when I first go in, it's importantfor me to do one thing, ask questions
and then help them put those piecestogether to help them move forward
(03:48):
and meet that objective or visionthat they have for the station.
And it's not hard.
Again, it's the basics.
That are gonna take to do one thing andthat's score in something called Nielsen.
Yeah.
Dave (04:02):
Yeah, one of the great things we've noticed about your method, Harry, is you
have an uncanny ability to break thingsdown into little bite sized pieces.
We were intrigued by your veryspecial radio ratings problem solving
method, which starts with what youcall a self reflection, can you?
Expand on that for
Harry (04:22):
us.
Yeah, one of the things that I've noticedfrom station to station to station, the in
house situation is a little bit different.
Even sometimes, guys, when I ask aprogram director, operations manager, or
general manager, well, what do you likeabout your, especially if, maybe the
station's, you know, off a little bit, orthey think that it's off a little bit and
(04:44):
they think that they're having problems.
One of the questions I like to ask well,okay, you think you have a problem, but is
there anything here that you would keep?
Because I think that's avery important question.
We can sit here and self reflecton all the elements and everything
that ties a radio station together.
But one of the things that I've noticedthrough the years is that a lot of
(05:06):
program directors have a tendency totake their hands off the steering wheel.
And when you take your handsoff the steering wheel,
things, things will happen.
Okay?
Yeah, so all of a sudden theimpact that was there, I just
did a project two weeks ago.
For a very large size market that used tobe a dominant station, and they're now in
(05:29):
the threes, but it was all self inflicted.
In other words, musically,they have a problem.
They have a talent issue.
They haven't done any contestand promotion in over two years.
They downgraded their morning,their legendary morning guy left.
And here's what happened.
Instead of hiring his equalor upgrading, they downgraded.
(05:53):
And the morning show has now lost70 percent of their audience.
My point being that didn't haveto happen, but it happened.
Now, can you fix that?
Well, you know, when it comes to theself reflection of looking at what a
radio station is doing from a talentstandpoint, that's a mistake you really
(06:13):
want to avoid making if all possible.
I want to share something with you guysbecause I remember when, when the Patriots
won the Super, the last Super Bowl herein Atlanta on the CBS morning news.
They had Bob Kraft and they were talkingabout to Bob Kraft, like, why are you, why
are the Patriots so consistent in winningand you've been to the Super Bowl the
(06:36):
past 10, 15 years, more so than anybodyelse, I never will forget his response.
Here's what he said.
It doesn't matter if it's on theoffensive side of the ball or
the defensive side of the ball.
Every time we have to replace aplayer, if we don't re sign one,
we upgrade that side of the ball.
Hey guys, that's, that's whatwe should do in radio, okay?
(06:59):
But that doesn't always happen.
When it comes to self reflecting, a lotof times, in, look, it, it, it starts
right there inside that radio station.
The ones who are closest to it.
Should be able to figure out what'shappening, but again, when you
take your hands off the steeringwheel, she will go off the road.
So the self reflecting partand the most important part
(07:23):
of this is asking questions.
What happened?
Why did this happen?
Is this going to be a revolution ofchange or an evolution of change?
And usually, guys, it gets down to eitheran evolution or a revolution of change.
When there's a ratings problem.
And
Kipper (07:43):
hopefully not dropping our salary cap any more than we have to, huh?
Harry (07:48):
That's right.
Right.
See, the thing is this.
I'm amazed at some people who areconfused about their objective.
I've run into a couple of situationswhere you still have some general
managers and program directorsand even operations managers.
They want, they want to take a formatand be all things to all people.
(08:10):
Well, I had some pretty good teachers.
That's not the way it works.
Okay.
If you can dominate two demographics,you can spread yourself out
and become a pretty good radiostation, regardless of format.
I was just talking to a rockfriend of mine the other day.
And, uh, he was telling me aboutthe appeal of his classic hit
station, but he knew where theepicenter of his format was.
(08:33):
That's the reason why he's successful.
Great
Kipper (08:36):
word.
And one of the things too, thatyou're always talking about is
really, in addition to knowing whoyou're talking to is knowing who
you've got on board and really.
Building that encouraging kind of winningattitude like Belichick has done, but
you want that throughout the station.
(08:57):
So question number one is what aresome of the best ways for, say, a
new program director to do that?
And number two, what do you do when likehalf your air staff is coming in from
other markets via voice track or whatever?
How do you build that winningthing with people that you
Harry (09:17):
never see?
Well, I'm going to be up front with his,if you and Dave were clients, Kepper,
I'm not a fan of voice tracking, right?
I believe that one of radio'sbiggest problems is we have
taken the companionship.
Out of the business of radioand I think listeners are smart.
I give them credit.
I can't remember the last time I heardsomebody screaming because of a contest
(09:40):
where they won something it needsto come back Something else again.
I'm not a huge voice track person I thinkone of the things that's happened in radio
is I consider all day parts important.
Okay.
I know some people say well We wantto spend the money in morning and
afternoon and we'll kind of Figureout what to do in the other day.
(10:01):
Parts winning radio stationsare consistent in mornings.
They're consistent in mid days.
They're consistent inafternoons and nights.
Okay.
And it doesn't work any other way.
There are no shortcuts to thisand I, I have diplomatically had
to tell a few people where I didsome projects and they even had
(10:22):
studies that there are no shortcuts.
One of the things that whenit comes to program directors.
And, and, and I don't know why this ishappening and I'm assuming it's a new
day, new breed of program director.
They don't know their market.
They don't read and they don't sit thereand invert the numbers and Nielsen to
(10:44):
find out why they're losing audience.
Even when there's a research study in thepast 8 months, give you just 1 example.
I did 2 medium sized markets.
They had done a research project.
And both program directorsthought that the epicenter of
their audience was 18 to 34.
Well, based on their own in houseresearch, hey guys, one market,
(11:09):
the audience started at 35, andthe other market started at 40.
Yeah.
And so I pointed out, I said,here's your problem right here.
Yeah.
Somebody hasn't read your own study.
Bingo.
But it happens, guys.
It happens.
Harry, for
Dave (11:28):
somebody just starting out, maybe in their first or second job,
what advice would you give them?
What suggestions would you havefor them when they're ready
to take that next big step?
Harry (11:39):
I will use myself as an example.
For that person that is starting out,I want them to know that used to be me.
And I was lucky.
I was very lucky.
I worked for some winning radio stations.
First off, I worked at...
Three winning radio stations in myhometown of Evansville, Indiana.
Great, great management,great program directors.
(12:01):
But again, I want to say thisand I say it respectfully.
That was a different day in radio.
Okay, even when my first job wasat a country station in Evansville,
Indiana, WROZ, Jim Emery, who was theprogram director, he came to talk to
our class, and he offered some of usto cut an audition, and I did one.
(12:22):
Great.
I did one.
And guess what happened?
I got a job.
Yay.
And so, my job was, I got torun the Ralph Emery show, from
that, that was on, on disc.
So anyway, then BloomingtonBroadcasting bought an old MOR station.
(12:44):
And so I applied there, and got the 10 2position, and worked with two legendary
guys that you guys probably know.
Jim Wood, who later was thenational guy at Mallwright.
Oh yeah.
And Buddy Scott, whoworked at, uh, CBN TV.
Right.
B96, yeah.
You betcha.
I'll stop right there.
Meeting those two guys in littlebitty Evansville, Indiana,
(13:08):
helped me start my career.
I watched, I asked questions.
I can remember Buddy and Jimsaid, Hey, you're asking too
many damn questions, okay?
But guys, I did itbecause I wanted to know.
And again, as Jim explained,hey, we're a new station.
This thing will unfoldthe longer you're here.
And of course, it was very tight, okay?
(13:28):
Mm hmm.
And I didn't understand at thetime playing a record every
75 minutes at the time, right?
Then all of a sudden 75 minuteswent to 90 then 90 went to about 210
or 215 Yeah, I was like, oh, okay.
So this is part of the chemistry ofwhat how radio works So for anybody
who is beginning I was lucky.
(13:50):
There's a lot of fool's gold out therenowadays, but at the same time, there
are still some good broadcasters,program directors, operations managers
and GMs who are interested in teachingthe next generation coming up.
I enjoy teaching the next generation.
I get to Georgia State at leastthree times a year to talk to
(14:10):
the broadcasting school there.
I am noticing something though in theclassroom when I was in Columbus, Miami.
St.
Louis, Louisville, Columbus,and Cleveland, and would talk
to college students and evensome high school classes.
Radios doesn't seem to be as sexy to them.
(14:32):
As it was back when I wasin the in the 80s and 90s.
Okay.
Absolutely.
And there's a reason for that.
Most of the questions comeabout streaming, podcasting.
In other words, there'snothing wrong with that.
But it has kind of diluted theinterests of something called radio.
(14:54):
Mm hmm.
But I don't think that that has to happen.
No.
And as I've told a couple of my friends.
I think that everything that has happenedto radio has been self inflicted by
companies who own radio stations.
There's a, there's a reason why somestations are successful and companies
are successful and some are not.
(15:15):
And again, I'll say it one more time.
There are no shortcuts to this.
We talked about BillBelichick and Robert Kraft.
There's a reason why thoseguys have been where they are.
It's the same thing as I've hadto say to a couple of program
directors who are into sports.
There's a reason why the Golden StateWarriors have done what they've done.
They've got a good coach and theyknow how to put a team together.
(15:37):
And so when it comes to our team inradio, I believe, you know, some people
say, well, if you can get that morningengine, that guy, or that, that team in
the mornings, good things will happen.
What sure it does.
I think today we cannot take anychances in midday afternoons or night.
So when you put those.
pieces together, and when they arelocked in together, guess what happens?
(16:03):
You get attention, the pieces areworking together, and I will tell you
this, I think the listeners hear that.
I know right here in Atlanta, whenI go to get gas or stop by a quick
mart or whatever, and somebody'sgot a radio on, I'll ask them, Why
are you listening to that station?
And usually, nine times out of ten, it'sa station that's a top three, top five.
(16:25):
And they're doing a good job at doing onething that's satisfying their audience
great stuff And guys, it doesn't matterwhat format it is as I was talking
to a rock friend of mine on the westcoast last week It doesn't matter.
You know, the basics are thebasic when the pieces are working
together good things happen A
Dave (16:42):
terrific guy.
Harry Lyles.
Hey, somebody you'd like to hear from.
We'd love to hear your suggestions.
Harry (16:49):
them to show at brandwithondemand.
com.
Kipper (16:52):
And we've got some new social media platforms to check out.
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn.
All you have to do islook for Brandwith Plus.
That's Brandwith P L U S.
One word and we look forward to seeingwhat you have to say when you're there
Dave (17:11):
coming up Harry share some opportunities that many including
us may find hiding in plain
Spot (17:17):
sight Music master less stress more.
Yes.
Hi, this is Jerry Butler for the teamat music master One of my favorite
tips for classic format programmersis to use the breakable one day,
one hour offset rule for artists.
Keywords.
It's not just for songs.
That way your listeners won'thave the same sampling of
artists each time they tune in.
(17:38):
And we turn the variety knob
Harry (17:39):
up to 11.
Spot (17:40):
Music master music scheduling the way it
Harry (17:43):
should be.
musicmaster.
Spot (17:50):
com.
Kipper (17:51):
Hey there, Kemper here.
So You want to have some great merchandisefor your radio station, but the
budget says, uh, we've got a solution.
Radio swag shop.
It's simple.
You select the items, give them your logo.
They create a store for you.
You link to it, you promote it, andyou sit back and collect the cash.
(18:14):
Budget short.
Radio Swag Shop is your answer.
Just go to radioswagshop.
com forward slash kipper.
My name, radioswagshop.
com forward slash kipper.
Your ratings and bottom line will
Spot (18:29):
thank you.
Opportunities
VO (18:31):
hidden in plain sight.
Bread with on demand.
Dave (18:36):
We are with one of the best and brightest, Harry Lyles.
Harry, thinking about traditionalradio, What's the one opportunity?
that you see that many stationpeople, no matter market size,
might find hiding in plain sight.
Harry (18:54):
Well, what's hiding in plain sight is something that you can hear
with your ears, and it's called theoverall essence of the radio station.
Once you grasp what your vision,I'll say it one more time.
The vision are the objective of thestation, and you know what's happening.
You don't know what's happening, butyou should know what's happening.
(19:15):
And some program directors say,well, I might know what's happening.
But the question is, you must knowwhat's happening for one thing to happen.
And that's for that radiostation to do one thing.
Have, have listeners and those localsto wake up with it every morning, get in
the car with it, eat breakfast with it.
(19:36):
When, again, the stationpieces are connected.
From a music standpoint, talentstandpoint, marketing, social media, you
create an impact because that's calledengagement and that's what listeners want.
Terrific
Dave (19:49):
guy, Kipper.
Harry Lyles, links to his websitesand more in the show notes,
just scroll down on your phone.
Kipper (19:55):
Also, we've got a special handout going out the first quarter of this year.
It's Seth Godin's 22 quotes thatevery radio person should know.
For 2022, just check the show notesas always, thanks to executive
producer, Cindy Huber for puttingthis all together and our associate
(20:16):
producer, Hannah B for handling theguest bookings and coming up next.
Spot (20:21):
Hi,
Erica (20:22):
I'm Erica Mandy with the newsworthy podcast.
I'm going to be sharing how you canmake your newscasts more objective and
gain more trust from your audience.
That's coming up nexton brand with on demand.
Harry (20:31):
That's a wrap Kipper.
Heritage,
Dave (20:34):
history, all that good stuff in the rear view mirror may
help you next week or tomorrow.
We'll talk about it.
One Minute Martinizing in theshow notes at brandwithondemand.
com.
I'm Dave Martin.
And I'm
Spot (20:47):
Kipper McGee.
May all your brand with be wide.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.