August 7, 2025 • 16 mins
When audio pros want honest answers about growing their audience, they call Tom Webster.
In this episode, the Sounds Profitable co-founder and author of The Audience is Listening joins Kipper and Dave for a no-fluff conversation about what’s working—and what’s not—in the evolving world of audio-first content.
Tom debunks the myth that promotion is the key to growth. Instead, he reveals why most creators fail before they even hit "record." The solution? Get real about who your show is for—and make every second count.
He also drops straight talk on why public radio teases and repurposed morning shows won’t cut it in the podcast world, what the data really says about listener engagement, and why local civic content might be broadcast radio’s most underrated asset.
This episode is a must-hear for anyone trying to grow smarter in an oversaturated audio landscape.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Anytime a podcaster asks, howcan I grow my audience?
Most people will ask, well,you need to do cross promotions or
feed drop, you know, do someFacebook ads.
And honestly, none of that isgoing to help you grow your audience
if you have a terrible podcastbrand with On Demand, rebooting radio
with a different take on allradio can be.
In a lot of ways, radiobroadcasters have as much, if not
(00:23):
more to learn from greatpodcasters as the other way around.
Now your guides through themediamorphosis, David Martin and
author of the book Brand withmedia branding coach Kipper McGee.
Today we're joined by a truethought leader in the world of audio,
both broadcasting and podcasting.
With over two decades ofexperience, Tom Webster has become
(00:45):
one of the most respectedvoices in audio.
He's the co founder of SoundsProfitable, where he dives deep into
podcast advertising and technology.
He's also the author of theAudience is Listening.
It's a newly released mustread for anyone serious about building
a loyal and lasting audience.
Tom's insights have helpedcountless broadcasters and podcasters
(01:08):
alike navigate the rapidlychanging landscape of audio.
Ramath On Demand is proud towelcome back Tom Webster.
Hey, Tom, welcome back.
It's.
I must not have stunk thejoint up last time.
Not at all, not at all.
But you also have a great bookout, and for those who have not read
the Audience Is Listening,while written mainly for podcasters,
(01:33):
it sure has a lot radio guyscan take out of it too.
I mean, you emphasize the ideaof earning an audience rather than
deserving one.
So why don't you share some ofthe key steps that radio folks should
take as well as the folksyou're working with in podcasting.
But, you know, the book reallystemmed from conversations that I
(01:53):
have with podcasters all the time.
And, you know, though I'vebeen working on the podcast side
for 19 years, my fullbackground in audio started 30, 30
years ago, really withbroadcast architecture back in 1994.
And you know, I managed toaccumulate a lot of arcane knowledge
along the way that I fearedmight be forgotten to the ages because
(02:15):
I don't think it's taughtanywhere anymore.
And that all kind of led me tothese questions that I get from podcasters
and, and anytime a podcasterasks how can I grow my audience?
Most people will ask, well,you need to do cross promotions or
feed drops or, you know, dosome Facebook ads or, or whatever.
And honestly, none of that isgoing to help you grow your audience
(02:38):
if you have a terrible podcast.
Yeah.
And that's going to help youpromote that's going to help you
advertise.
But that's not capital Mmarketing, which is really the theory
of the firm.
Right.
It's the full understanding ofan audience that you want to reach
and the crafting of a productthat they want to hear, not the one
necessarily that you want tomake in the way you want to make
it.
(02:58):
And that's just not a messagethat a lot of podcasters have heard.
Well, for radio professionalstransitioning into podcasting, Tom,
what are the biggest mindsetshifts they need to make?
What techniques do yourecommend for gathering and applying
listener feedback and podcasting?
And for that matter, anyaudio, including radio?
Well, the great thing aboutpodcasting, you know, it becomes
(03:21):
sort of a drinking game whenyou talk about the benefits of podcasting.
And anytime anyone says, youknow, it's.
There's an intimacy to it, youtake a shot, I think, but there is
an intimacy to it.
And it's often listened to inthe headphones, and it's often a
private, intimate space wherethe podcaster is talking directly
to one human.
(03:41):
And I think that's the mindsetshift that starts all of this, is
that when you start a podcast,you need to get really specific about
one person that you're talking to.
Not a mom, 2554, but thisperson needs a name and a suit of
clothes and hobbies andconcerns and fears and loves and
needs and wants and all of that.
(04:03):
And the more specific you canbe about making a show for that one
singular person, the betterthat show is going to be.
And I guarantee you there'smore than one of that singular type
of person out there.
And that's, to me, is sort ofthe hardest thing.
When I hear, sometimes when Ihear radio personalities transitioning
to podcasting, they're stilllike, hey, welcome to the big show
(04:24):
here.
And it doesn't sound likethey're talking to a single human.
Good point.
Absolutely.
So realizing that they areoften the same humans, what are some
of the key differences betweenthose who listen to the radio and
those who are listening whenthey're listening to podcasts?
(04:46):
And how can that influence thecontent creation when it's radio
people that are doing it?
How does it manifest, I guess,is what I'm saying?
Yeah, I mean, radio for themost part is a lean back medium.
It's something that you haveon in the background while you're
doing other things.
It's a utility.
And podcasting, you know, kindof demands more forward attention.
(05:08):
It's.
It's more of a lean forward medium.
And that Also, I think,changes how you approach things.
But, you know, and here's someguys, here's some tough love.
Like, you've, you've been inradio a long time, or at least associated
with the industry.
So have I.
You know, a lot of what is oncommercial broadcast radio now does
(05:29):
not reflect the art ofstorytelling, does not reflect narrative
technique.
Right.
You know, 80% of commercialbroadcast radio is music and shut
up because of ppm.
Right.
And then the other 20% is offa satellite somewhere.
And it's a lot of the samekind of content, right?
There's, it's a lot offinancial programs or talk, you know,
(05:50):
conservative politics.
It falls into very limited scope.
And I think the average radiostation in the US doesn't necessarily
have the muscle memory in thebuilding to create fantastic storytelling
and narrative arcs becausethey just haven't done it in so long.
And that's, that's some tough love.
(06:12):
I think in a lot of ways,radio broadcasters have as much,
if not more to learn fromgreat podcasters as the other way
around.
Boy, I can certainlyunderstand that.
But, Tom, in addition to that,what common mistakes do radio stations
make when they're doingpodcasts, and how can they leverage
podcasting to create nichecontent that still resonates?
(06:35):
Well, I think you have tocreate it natively for the medium.
You know, there is a smallmarket for, you know, what in the
UK they call catch up radio.
Right.
Just stick your morning showon a podcast for people who might
have missed it.
There's a small market for that.
Don't get me wrong.
You can, you can, you know,value, add some spots on that, I'm
sure.
But every time I hear apodcast that is repurposed from a
(06:58):
radio show, and I hear, youknow, the, the personality say, you
know, coming up next, we'vegot blah, blah, blah, blah.
But first, like, why are you teasing?
Why are you doing that?
You know, someone is givingyou 30 minutes of their time or however
long of their time they've gottheir headphones and you have their
active attention.
(07:18):
Why are you continuing toremind them that what they want is
coming up later?
You know what I mean?
Now, in radio, you're doingthat to extend tsl, but there's no
such thing in podcasting.
Not like that.
Right.
So a lot of those sort ofthings that are ingrained in, you
know, professionalbroadcasters who are very good at
(07:38):
what they do are notnecessarily applicable to this space.
Interesting.
So maybe we shouldn't beteasing what you're going to be talking
about after.
Our spots huh, well, more onthat later.
Well said.
We can all learn somethingfrom Tom Webster.
What a bright guy.
(07:58):
Do you have a guest or topicin mind for our next episode?
Well, let us know.
Drop us aline@showrandwithondemand.com or
connect with us on socialbrand with plus on Facebook and X.
That's brandwith plus.
P L U S brand with plus.
(08:23):
In a world of vanilla radiowhere every station sounds the same,
comes a once in a generationtalent that also has the heart.
Yeah, I just know with theright training, I can be the best.
Kid, you're out of your league.
You can't even take a hit.
Listen, Mickey, it's what I do.
I pick the hits.
And with Music Master, I getincredible rotation separations.
(08:45):
Mickey, it's a beautiful thing.
Kid, before you step in thatring, you gotta learn the rules.
I will, I'll learn the rules.
I'll even go next level withoptimal goals.
I don't think I have it in meto teach you all that.
Well, you don't have to.
Music Master offers fullsupport and training.
Okay, you can do it.
Rock.
(09:06):
Actually, I was thinking aboutdoing a top 40, but I know it's a
big.
The Music Master.
This summer's market monster,world leader in music scheduling
and proven champion details@musicmaster.com.
Adventures.
In Media Morphosis Brand withon demand.
So talking about measurement,you have done a lot in various lives
(09:29):
that you have led with aresearch and whatnot.
Do you see a time when podcastmeasurement is going to be savvy
enough that like YouTube, itcan measure who is with you every
second of a podcast?
Yeah, this is a, this is acomplicated topic because, you know,
first of all, the measurementin podcasting is exceptional and
it's way better than it wasfive years ago.
(09:51):
Right.
We have, we have pixel basedattribution products that let advertisers
know that someone listened tothe podcast and then went to their
website that's available.
If you know there is playerbased data from certain platforms
like Spotify where they docontrol the player and they do.
And they do control that.
And there's also really,really good log and server based
(10:13):
data and all of those thingsare, you know, have to be triangulated
a little bit.
But the good news is thatthere is a significant amount of
that data and a significantamount of innovation happening to
bring all those things together.
Right.
The difficulty is thatpodcasts are consumed on multiple
platforms.
There are some podcasts likeJoe Rogan and the Kelsey's and things
(10:37):
like that that arepredominantly consumed on YouTube.
And the stats you get onYouTube are really not all that parallel
to the stats you get from anaudio platform.
They track views, and I'm notexactly sure they can tell you what
a view is.
And it's certainly not animpression, and it's certainly not,
you know, a listen, which Isuppose is what we're all angling
(10:59):
for.
Right.
But I.
But I will say this, and if itsounds like I'm being a little harsh
on the radio industry, it'sbecause I'm being a little harsh
on the radio industry.
When I hear people denigratethe metrics that are available in
podcasting, I remind them thatin many major markets, if a household
drops out of the PPM process,an entire format gets tanked.
(11:21):
Right.
I was around for smooth jazz.
This is true.
Right.
So, yeah.
So, you know, I think the.
The measurement and metricsthat we have in podcasting are significantly
better than what you have inmagazines, newspapers, radio, and
television.
And they're not quite as goodas what you get with wholly owned
platforms like Facebook.
(11:41):
But I think also marketershave been a little spoiled by Google
and Facebook, where they getall that digital data.
And it doesn't necessarilytell you why somebody bought something.
It just tells you that therewas some association with the purchase.
So there's no perfect metric.
What can radio professionalslearn from what podcasters have come
to realize as best practice?
(12:02):
I think the most importantthing is to maintain a deep, reciprocal,
circular relationship withyour audience.
And, you know, one of thegreat things about being a local
radio personality, and maybeyou have a morning show there that's
a local morning show.
I love remotes, you know, when the.
When the jocks actually come out.
(12:22):
And one of the questions Ialways used to ask in focus groups
or radio stations when I wouldtalk about these shows is, you know,
if you saw such and such, youknow, Carlos and the Chicken or whatever
at down at JP McBeers, wouldthey be friendly?
Would they talk to you, or doyou think they'd be, you know, you
think you would be able to getto know them, or do you feel like
they would keep to themselves?
I'd ask questions like that.
(12:44):
And when you're a podcaster,you largely don't get to hire me.
You've got to kind of do thatwork yourself, and you've got to
ask better questions.
And I think the best thing youcan do is not to ask questions like,
do you like my show?
What do you like about my show?
Because people are not very articulate.
When you ask for generalpositives like that, but instead
ask very specific questionslike how did you find out about this
(13:08):
show?
How did you learn about it?
Coming up, Kipper Tom Webstershares some things he finds as opportunities.
Hiding in plain sight.
Wondering how to put AI towork for you?
Well, here's a must have tool.
Radial Content Pro constantlysearches hundreds of verified sources,
then curates content to use onthe air, online and on social media.
(13:30):
It writes newscasts,entertainment reports, teases, phone
topics, blog posts, socialmedia posts and more for every single
topic.
And RCP's amazing sidekicklets you personalize the content
to fit your style and local market.
Get details and a free 7 daytrial now radiocontentpro.com opportunities
(13:51):
hidden in pliers.
Sites brand with On Demand we are.
With one of the best andbrightest, the co founder of Sounds
Profitable and the author ofthe Audience is Listening, Tom Webster.
Tom, what opportunity forstation people, for broadcast radio
people do you find just hidingin plain sight something they can
(14:13):
take advantage of to move forward?
I'm going to give you a wacky one.
And that's the bane of a lotof radio stations existence.
Remember when you had to puton public affairs programming and
you'd like bury it at 5ambecause it was, you know, boring,
not part of your regular programming?
Somebody cares about thatstuff, right?
And that stuff is actuallydisappearing in local markets and
(14:35):
that's the thing that I worry about.
So I think there's anopportunity without the obligation
for high production, withoutthe obligation for a large audience
or selling spots.
I think there's an opportunityfor passionate people at the station
level to be more connectedwith civic things happening in their
community.
And I say this as someone who,as you know, has also a long background
(14:59):
in doing political research.
People today identifythemselves very sharply about candidates
and parties.
And there's a.
And that's identity politics.
It's very hard for people to change.
But those same people that areon one side of the aisle or the other
can actually agree on civic issues.
They can agree on things likewhere are we getting our water?
(15:20):
They can agree on things likehow fast or slowly we're developing
and zoning and infrastructureand things like that.
People really care about that stuff.
And to me that's a way that aradio station may not have the budget
to produce 24,7 wall to wallnews coverage to still leave deeper
footprints in a community.
Excellent point.
Great suggestion.
(15:41):
Yeah.
Our thanks to Tom Webster.
He's the co founder of SoundsProfitable and the author of the
Must Read.
The Audience is Listening findmore about Tom, his firm and his
book in the show notes.
Just scroll down on your phone.
As always, thanks to our execproducers Cindy Huber for putting
everything together and HannahB for booking.
(16:03):
And coming up next, Hi, this is.
Angela Perelli of AngelaPerelli coaching.
I'm a morning show coach and Ilove working with shows on all aspects
including characterdevelopment, content development,
execution of fundamentals andcoming up on the next brand with
on demand, we'll talk aboutcommon mistakes that morning shows
make, how to stay relevant ina time of rapid change and a lot
(16:26):
more.
So hope you'll join us.
That's a wrap, Kipper.
The cost of postage is going up.
What does that have to do with audio?
We'll talk about it in thenext one minute.
Martinizing Find it in theshow notes@brandwithondemand.com
I'm Dave Martin.
And I'm Kipper McGee.
May all your brand with be wide.
Anytime a podcaster asks, howcan I grow my audience?
Most people will ask, well,you need to do cross promotions or
feed drop, you know, do someFacebook ads.
And honestly, none of that isgoing to help you grow your audience
if you have a terrible podcastbrand with On Demand, rebooting radio
with a different take on allradio can be.
In a lot of ways, radiobroadcasters have as much, if not
(00:23):
more to learn from greatpodcasters as the other way around.
Now your guides through themediamorphosis, David Martin and
author of the book Brand withmedia branding coach Kipper McGee.
Today we're joined by a truethought leader in the world of audio,
both broadcasting and podcasting.
With over two decades ofexperience, Tom Webster has become
(00:45):
one of the most respectedvoices in audio.
He's the co founder of SoundsProfitable, where he dives deep into
podcast advertising and technology.
He's also the author of theAudience is Listening.
It's a newly released mustread for anyone serious about building
a loyal and lasting audience.
Tom's insights have helpedcountless broadcasters and podcasters
(01:08):
alike navigate the rapidlychanging landscape of audio.
Ramath On Demand is proud towelcome back Tom Webster.
Hey, Tom, welcome back.
It's.
I must not have stunk thejoint up last time.
Not at all, not at all.
But you also have a great bookout, and for those who have not read
the Audience Is Listening,while written mainly for podcasters,
(01:33):
it sure has a lot radio guyscan take out of it too.
I mean, you emphasize the ideaof earning an audience rather than
deserving one.
So why don't you share some ofthe key steps that radio folks should
take as well as the folksyou're working with in podcasting.
But, you know, the book reallystemmed from conversations that I
(01:53):
have with podcasters all the time.
And, you know, though I'vebeen working on the podcast side
for 19 years, my fullbackground in audio started 30, 30
years ago, really withbroadcast architecture back in 1994.
And you know, I managed toaccumulate a lot of arcane knowledge
along the way that I fearedmight be forgotten to the ages because
(02:15):
I don't think it's taughtanywhere anymore.
And that all kind of led me tothese questions that I get from podcasters
and, and anytime a podcasterasks how can I grow my audience?
Most people will ask, well,you need to do cross promotions or
feed drops or, you know, dosome Facebook ads or, or whatever.
And honestly, none of that isgoing to help you grow your audience
(02:38):
if you have a terrible podcast.
Yeah.
And that's going to help youpromote that's going to help you
advertise.
But that's not capital Mmarketing, which is really the theory
of the firm.
Right.
It's the full understanding ofan audience that you want to reach
and the crafting of a productthat they want to hear, not the one
necessarily that you want tomake in the way you want to make
it.
(02:58):
And that's just not a messagethat a lot of podcasters have heard.
Well, for radio professionalstransitioning into podcasting, Tom,
what are the biggest mindsetshifts they need to make?
What techniques do yourecommend for gathering and applying
listener feedback and podcasting?
And for that matter, anyaudio, including radio?
Well, the great thing aboutpodcasting, you know, it becomes
(03:21):
sort of a drinking game whenyou talk about the benefits of podcasting.
And anytime anyone says, youknow, it's.
There's an intimacy to it, youtake a shot, I think, but there is
an intimacy to it.
And it's often listened to inthe headphones, and it's often a
private, intimate space wherethe podcaster is talking directly
to one human.
(03:41):
And I think that's the mindsetshift that starts all of this, is
that when you start a podcast,you need to get really specific about
one person that you're talking to.
Not a mom, 2554, but thisperson needs a name and a suit of
clothes and hobbies andconcerns and fears and loves and
needs and wants and all of that.
(04:03):
And the more specific you canbe about making a show for that one
singular person, the betterthat show is going to be.
And I guarantee you there'smore than one of that singular type
of person out there.
And that's, to me, is sort ofthe hardest thing.
When I hear, sometimes when Ihear radio personalities transitioning
to podcasting, they're stilllike, hey, welcome to the big show
(04:24):
here.
And it doesn't sound likethey're talking to a single human.
Good point.
Absolutely.
So realizing that they areoften the same humans, what are some
of the key differences betweenthose who listen to the radio and
those who are listening whenthey're listening to podcasts?
(04:46):
And how can that influence thecontent creation when it's radio
people that are doing it?
How does it manifest, I guess,is what I'm saying?
Yeah, I mean, radio for themost part is a lean back medium.
It's something that you haveon in the background while you're
doing other things.
It's a utility.
And podcasting, you know, kindof demands more forward attention.
(05:08):
It's.
It's more of a lean forward medium.
And that Also, I think,changes how you approach things.
But, you know, and here's someguys, here's some tough love.
Like, you've, you've been inradio a long time, or at least associated
with the industry.
So have I.
You know, a lot of what is oncommercial broadcast radio now does
(05:29):
not reflect the art ofstorytelling, does not reflect narrative
technique.
Right.
You know, 80% of commercialbroadcast radio is music and shut
up because of ppm.
Right.
And then the other 20% is offa satellite somewhere.
And it's a lot of the samekind of content, right?
There's, it's a lot offinancial programs or talk, you know,
(05:50):
conservative politics.
It falls into very limited scope.
And I think the average radiostation in the US doesn't necessarily
have the muscle memory in thebuilding to create fantastic storytelling
and narrative arcs becausethey just haven't done it in so long.
And that's, that's some tough love.
(06:12):
I think in a lot of ways,radio broadcasters have as much,
if not more to learn fromgreat podcasters as the other way
around.
Boy, I can certainlyunderstand that.
But, Tom, in addition to that,what common mistakes do radio stations
make when they're doingpodcasts, and how can they leverage
podcasting to create nichecontent that still resonates?
(06:35):
Well, I think you have tocreate it natively for the medium.
You know, there is a smallmarket for, you know, what in the
UK they call catch up radio.
Right.
Just stick your morning showon a podcast for people who might
have missed it.
There's a small market for that.
Don't get me wrong.
You can, you can, you know,value, add some spots on that, I'm
sure.
But every time I hear apodcast that is repurposed from a
(06:58):
radio show, and I hear, youknow, the, the personality say, you
know, coming up next, we'vegot blah, blah, blah, blah.
But first, like, why are you teasing?
Why are you doing that?
You know, someone is givingyou 30 minutes of their time or however
long of their time they've gottheir headphones and you have their
active attention.
(07:18):
Why are you continuing toremind them that what they want is
coming up later?
You know what I mean?
Now, in radio, you're doingthat to extend tsl, but there's no
such thing in podcasting.
Not like that.
Right.
So a lot of those sort ofthings that are ingrained in, you
know, professionalbroadcasters who are very good at
(07:38):
what they do are notnecessarily applicable to this space.
Interesting.
So maybe we shouldn't beteasing what you're going to be talking
about after.
Our spots huh, well, more onthat later.
Well said.
We can all learn somethingfrom Tom Webster.
What a bright guy.
(07:58):
Do you have a guest or topicin mind for our next episode?
Well, let us know.
Drop us aline@showrandwithondemand.com or
connect with us on socialbrand with plus on Facebook and X.
That's brandwith plus.
P L U S brand with plus.
(08:23):
In a world of vanilla radiowhere every station sounds the same,
comes a once in a generationtalent that also has the heart.
Yeah, I just know with theright training, I can be the best.
Kid, you're out of your league.
You can't even take a hit.
Listen, Mickey, it's what I do.
I pick the hits.
And with Music Master, I getincredible rotation separations.
(08:45):
Mickey, it's a beautiful thing.
Kid, before you step in thatring, you gotta learn the rules.
I will, I'll learn the rules.
I'll even go next level withoptimal goals.
I don't think I have it in meto teach you all that.
Well, you don't have to.
Music Master offers fullsupport and training.
Okay, you can do it.
Rock.
(09:06):
Actually, I was thinking aboutdoing a top 40, but I know it's a
big.
The Music Master.
This summer's market monster,world leader in music scheduling
and proven champion details@musicmaster.com.
Adventures.
In Media Morphosis Brand withon demand.
So talking about measurement,you have done a lot in various lives
(09:29):
that you have led with aresearch and whatnot.
Do you see a time when podcastmeasurement is going to be savvy
enough that like YouTube, itcan measure who is with you every
second of a podcast?
Yeah, this is a, this is acomplicated topic because, you know,
first of all, the measurementin podcasting is exceptional and
it's way better than it wasfive years ago.
(09:51):
Right.
We have, we have pixel basedattribution products that let advertisers
know that someone listened tothe podcast and then went to their
website that's available.
If you know there is playerbased data from certain platforms
like Spotify where they docontrol the player and they do.
And they do control that.
And there's also really,really good log and server based
(10:13):
data and all of those thingsare, you know, have to be triangulated
a little bit.
But the good news is thatthere is a significant amount of
that data and a significantamount of innovation happening to
bring all those things together.
Right.
The difficulty is thatpodcasts are consumed on multiple
platforms.
There are some podcasts likeJoe Rogan and the Kelsey's and things
(10:37):
like that that arepredominantly consumed on YouTube.
And the stats you get onYouTube are really not all that parallel
to the stats you get from anaudio platform.
They track views, and I'm notexactly sure they can tell you what
a view is.
And it's certainly not animpression, and it's certainly not,
you know, a listen, which Isuppose is what we're all angling
(10:59):
for.
Right.
But I.
But I will say this, and if itsounds like I'm being a little harsh
on the radio industry, it'sbecause I'm being a little harsh
on the radio industry.
When I hear people denigratethe metrics that are available in
podcasting, I remind them thatin many major markets, if a household
drops out of the PPM process,an entire format gets tanked.
(11:21):
Right.
I was around for smooth jazz.
This is true.
Right.
So, yeah.
So, you know, I think the.
The measurement and metricsthat we have in podcasting are significantly
better than what you have inmagazines, newspapers, radio, and
television.
And they're not quite as goodas what you get with wholly owned
platforms like Facebook.
(11:41):
But I think also marketershave been a little spoiled by Google
and Facebook, where they getall that digital data.
And it doesn't necessarilytell you why somebody bought something.
It just tells you that therewas some association with the purchase.
So there's no perfect metric.
What can radio professionalslearn from what podcasters have come
to realize as best practice?
(12:02):
I think the most importantthing is to maintain a deep, reciprocal,
circular relationship withyour audience.
And, you know, one of thegreat things about being a local
radio personality, and maybeyou have a morning show there that's
a local morning show.
I love remotes, you know, when the.
When the jocks actually come out.
(12:22):
And one of the questions Ialways used to ask in focus groups
or radio stations when I wouldtalk about these shows is, you know,
if you saw such and such, youknow, Carlos and the Chicken or whatever
at down at JP McBeers, wouldthey be friendly?
Would they talk to you, or doyou think they'd be, you know, you
think you would be able to getto know them, or do you feel like
they would keep to themselves?
I'd ask questions like that.
(12:44):
And when you're a podcaster,you largely don't get to hire me.
You've got to kind of do thatwork yourself, and you've got to
ask better questions.
And I think the best thing youcan do is not to ask questions like,
do you like my show?
What do you like about my show?
Because people are not very articulate.
When you ask for generalpositives like that, but instead
ask very specific questionslike how did you find out about this
(13:08):
show?
How did you learn about it?
Coming up, Kipper Tom Webstershares some things he finds as opportunities.
Hiding in plain sight.
Wondering how to put AI towork for you?
Well, here's a must have tool.
Radial Content Pro constantlysearches hundreds of verified sources,
then curates content to use onthe air, online and on social media.
(13:30):
It writes newscasts,entertainment reports, teases, phone
topics, blog posts, socialmedia posts and more for every single
topic.
And RCP's amazing sidekicklets you personalize the content
to fit your style and local market.
Get details and a free 7 daytrial now radiocontentpro.com opportunities
(13:51):
hidden in pliers.
Sites brand with On Demand we are.
With one of the best andbrightest, the co founder of Sounds
Profitable and the author ofthe Audience is Listening, Tom Webster.
Tom, what opportunity forstation people, for broadcast radio
people do you find just hidingin plain sight something they can
(14:13):
take advantage of to move forward?
I'm going to give you a wacky one.
And that's the bane of a lotof radio stations existence.
Remember when you had to puton public affairs programming and
you'd like bury it at 5ambecause it was, you know, boring,
not part of your regular programming?
Somebody cares about thatstuff, right?
And that stuff is actuallydisappearing in local markets and
(14:35):
that's the thing that I worry about.
So I think there's anopportunity without the obligation
for high production, withoutthe obligation for a large audience
or selling spots.
I think there's an opportunityfor passionate people at the station
level to be more connectedwith civic things happening in their
community.
And I say this as someone who,as you know, has also a long background
(14:59):
in doing political research.
People today identifythemselves very sharply about candidates
and parties.
And there's a.
And that's identity politics.
It's very hard for people to change.
But those same people that areon one side of the aisle or the other
can actually agree on civic issues.
They can agree on things likewhere are we getting our water?
(15:20):
They can agree on things likehow fast or slowly we're developing
and zoning and infrastructureand things like that.
People really care about that stuff.
And to me that's a way that aradio station may not have the budget
to produce 24,7 wall to wallnews coverage to still leave deeper
footprints in a community.
Excellent point.
Great suggestion.
(15:41):
Yeah.
Our thanks to Tom Webster.
He's the co founder of SoundsProfitable and the author of the
Must Read.
The Audience is Listening findmore about Tom, his firm and his
book in the show notes.
Just scroll down on your phone.
As always, thanks to our execproducers Cindy Huber for putting
everything together and HannahB for booking.
(16:03):
And coming up next, Hi, this is.
Angela Perelli of AngelaPerelli coaching.
I'm a morning show coach and Ilove working with shows on all aspects
including characterdevelopment, content development,
execution of fundamentals andcoming up on the next brand with
on demand, we'll talk aboutcommon mistakes that morning shows
make, how to stay relevant ina time of rapid change and a lot
(16:26):
more.
So hope you'll join us.
That's a wrap, Kipper.
The cost of postage is going up.
What does that have to do with audio?
We'll talk about it in thenext one minute.
Martinizing Find it in theshow notes@brandwithondemand.com
I'm Dave Martin.
And I'm Kipper McGee.
May all your brand with be wide.
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