November 18, 2024 • 41 mins
Join us in welcoming Sarah Hurley, a self-made entrepreneur, global brand creator, and founder of SH Brands Group and the Sarah Hurley Academy. From starting her business with just £40 to building a multi-million dollar enterprise, Sarah’s journey is one of resilience, determination, and unwavering self-belief.
Episode Highlights:
Sarah shares her inspiring journey from humble beginnings, growing up in a tower block, overcoming an abusive first marriage, and later, the heartbreak of losing her second husband. Despite these hardships, she transformed her life, building a seven-figure licensing empire that spans over 50 brands and 30 million licensed products sold globally.
Key Discussion Points:
1. How Sarah’s tough upbringing instilled a relentless drive for success.
2. The pivotal moment when she risked her last £40 to launch SH Brands.
3. Overcoming personal tragedy and channeling grief into the creation of the Sarah Hurley Academy.
4. The significance of teaching others sustainable business practices and financial independence.
5. Insights on how to stay resilient and adaptable in the face of life’s challenges.
6. Her approach to empowering others to build their own businesses.
7. The importance of authenticity and staying true to oneself in business.
8. Reflections on the power of community support and mentorship.
9. The creative process behind launching over 50 successful brands.
10. Future plans for expanding her business and continuing her mission of uplifting others.
Quotable Moments:
“Your past doesn’t define you; it fuels your drive.”
“You don’t need millions to start a business—just grit, determination, and belief in yourself.”
Connect with Sarah:
- Instagram: [@Scaryhurley @sarahhurleybrands @sarahhurleyacademy
- LinkedIn: [Sarah Hurley](https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahmhurley)
- Website: [Sarah Hurley](https://www.sarahhurley.com)
Listener Engagement:
We’d love to hear your reflections on Sarah’s journey and how her story of resilience and entrepreneurship resonates with your own experiences.
Disclaimer:
The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Braving Business Podcast or its hosts.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey there, I'm Tals Lotnitsky from Ignite IT Consulting.
(00:05):
You know me from the Braving Business podcast, but when I'm not behind the mic, I'm helping
tech startups and established companies ignite their full potential.
I also help entrepreneurs and businesses in distress reset for success.
With over three decades of entrepreneurial success, I bring hands-on experience to drive
growth, navigate turnarounds, raise capital, and lead to innovation.
(00:28):
Whether it's executive coaching or strategic transformation, I'm here to turn your business
challenges into success stories.
Visit igniteitconsulting.com and let's spark that change together.
That's igniteitconsulting.com.
Your journey to business brilliance starts now.
And one last quick thing.
(00:49):
If you enjoyed this episode, please stay on after the show to learn more about the Braving
Business podcast and other great episodes for you to discover.
And now, let's get the show started.
(01:12):
Well hello there.
Hey brother.
How are you?
I am well.
That was somewhere between hey bud and hey brother.
I know.
That being a broad.
I've been called worse, so I'll take bread.
How are you?
No, I asked first.
Oh gosh darn it.
I'm okay.
I'm doing well.
I'm doing well.
(01:33):
How about you, sir?
I am okay.
I just had an interesting experience.
I went to see Cyndi Lauper in concert, which I was really looking forward to because I
don't know if you know this, but she has not done a concert series since 1986.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, she'd done some Broadway, but she hadn't done a tour.
So I was looking forward to it and she filled Emily Arena in Tampa Bay.
(01:58):
And the design of the show was top notch, but her singing, ouch.
Oh really?
Showing the, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, unfortunately we're getting to the age now where that happens.
Did you see Stevie Nicks on SNL?
Did I?
No.
(02:18):
Oh, she was on, she was, and she was great, but the first song she sang is one that no
one knew, it was like a new song.
And when it first started out, I was like, oh boy, this is rough.
This is a little rough.
She caught her stride later, but it was, at first I was like, oh boy.
I mean, we all age, you know, it's tough.
I can appreciate her maybe not being as mindful of how she sounds.
(02:40):
I'm a little surprised that, you know, people in her entourage aren't, let's put it this
way.
There should be a significant weight given to recordings and her mic should be a lot
lower.
That would be my recommendation.
I don't know.
Maybe that's unkind.
Sarah, have you seen a concert where, you know, maybe, or listened to someone that you
(03:01):
wondered, man, what happened to that guy or gal?
Their voice is not what it used to be.
Do you know, I was really hoping to go and see Sting and I saw like a clip of it on TV
recently and I was like, yeah, I think I'll leave it in my head.
You know, don't meet your heroes and all that.
It's funny you said it because we got in the car, we actually listened to recordings of
(03:22):
her because we really need it to just restore that sound.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anyway, PJ, why don't we introduce Sarah and get the show on the road.
Absolutely.
So today we have the fantastic Miss Sarah Hurley, a remarkable entrepreneur whose journey
is a testament to the power of resilience, self-belief and just sheer determination.
(03:45):
Sarah started her company, SH Brands Group, with nothing more than her last 40 pound sterling,
which what is like 50, 52 bucks or something like that?
And turned out, yeah, right around there and turned it into a seven figure global licensing
empire in just five years.
But Sarah's story goes much deeper than just business success.
(04:06):
Growing up in poverty with a single mother and without a father in her life, Sarah learned
early that hard work and education were the keys to a better future.
So she taught herself everything that she could about business using every spare moment
to empower herself.
Her journey was not without challenges, however.
She survived an abusive first marriage and after finding love again, tragically lost
(04:26):
her second husband just five years ago.
Oh my gosh, I'm sorry.
This profound loss inspired Sarah to launch the Sarah Hurley Academy, dedicated to helping
others achieve financial freedom and their own versions of success.
And unlike many, Sarah's approach is grounded in reality, teaching sustainable business
principles rather than making unrealistic promises.
(04:49):
Over the years, she's created over 50 brands and sold over 30 million licensed products,
all while staying true to her mission of giving back.
Sarah believes that the journey, no matter how difficult, only makes us stronger.
And today she's here to share her profit story of overcoming adversity, building resilience
and lifting up others along the way.
(05:10):
Sarah, welcome to the Braving Business Podcast.
Thank you for having me.
Of course.
Sarah, what a story.
Over the three seasons that we've been on the air, we've had a number of incredibly
inspiring people with incredibly inspiring stories.
Our second episode, we had a woman that lost her sight and used that as motivation to build
(05:34):
AI for people that are blind.
So it always inspires me, as someone himself didn't grow up with a silver spoon, to bring
on the air people who can share a story that I think for many people in the audience, not
only represents a closer version of their life story, but they can draw a lot more inspiration
(05:56):
and potentially some specific life lessons from.
So you grew up with very little and you had to teach yourself business skills from scratch
and some other skills.
What was one pivotal moment in your childhood that made you believe you could break the
cycle and create a successful life for yourself?
(06:16):
For me, I was very lucky that my mom, she brought me up in a certain way.
We always had books, was always told the power of education, you could be anything.
And my mom was never that person that was like, when you get married, when you have
babies or if I say I want to be an astronaut, she wouldn't kind of laugh at it or anything
else.
(06:37):
And she would very much be like, oh, cool.
So like when you get fitted for your space suit, this will happen.
So nothing was made to feel impossible.
Everything felt very available and very possible.
So I kind of grew up, I guess in some ways a little bit naive in that I didn't know that
probably a lot of things were not going to be available to me until I got to kind of
(07:01):
14, 15 at school, and you start seeing careers advisors and stuff and they start going, well,
you won't be able to afford that education path or you won't be able to afford to do
that.
And by that point, I was so strong minded in that, well, I can do that.
I can do it.
You've just got to find a way.
So I was never told, no, I was never told you can't.
(07:22):
I was always told if you work hard enough and you learn enough and you keep going, you
can do anything.
So I suppose my pivotal moment really is just my mom's encouragement.
My granddad's, you know, my granddad was very supportive and educational and very much took
on like the father role in my life as well.
So I suppose those two people really shaped me.
Wow.
(07:43):
Wow.
So you went ahead, you kind of plowed through all the self doubt.
You believed in yourself.
You took the advice of your older familial influencers, which is fantastic.
And then you started a business with just 40 pounds in your pocket and you grew it to
(08:04):
a seven figure company.
How did you navigate those early days?
And when like when resources obviously were not even just limited, they just weren't there.
And how did you find the confidence to keep going?
Again, there was no, there was sort of no planning.
And I guess that kind of naivety and the not knowing helped me.
(08:24):
So when I started with the 40 pounds, my thing was literally just, I've just been made redundant
from a job that I didn't even want.
And I thought, well, I may as well have a go at something I'd actually like to do.
And so my goal at that point was just to illustrate some books to, you know, maybe some children's
books or some creative products.
And so I just started sending stuff out to people.
(08:48):
And yeah, it was just, it was just that really just no one's until like later on in my career
and people are like, you can't just email the CEO.
And I was like, oh, why?
You know, why, why can't I ask those questions?
And so, you know, the lack of money.
So what happened was I actually sent some stuff, I was sending stuff out to people and
I got a call from a TV shopping channel and they said to me, come in and see us.
(09:12):
So I actually spent that last 40 pounds on a train ticket to go and see them.
And they said, your stuff is amazing.
We'd like to launch your products on TV of four weeks.
And I went great.
And then on the train home went, but I've got no money to manufacture those products.
So my first port of call was right.
Okay, what, what can I give someone?
So what I could give someone was some TV exposure because I was about to have an hour of live
(09:35):
TV and what product could I create that would work well with someone else's product that
maybe wasn't exciting on its own.
But if I showed it with my product, they would sponsor me and that would pay for the manufacturing
of my product.
So I created a craft kit that needed some coloring and I contacted a marker brand because
(09:56):
on their own markers are not very exciting unless you show what they can do.
And I asked if they would sponsor it.
They would get their logo all over my packaging.
I would also sell their products alongside mine on TV and they would get that hour of
TV exposure with me also talking about how great their products were.
And they were the must have thing to go with mine.
And they agreed and that paid for my first manufacturing run.
(10:17):
And it went from there and I reinvested and reinvested and reinvested and I didn't take
a penny out for at least two years and just kept putting money back in.
But I was never afraid to ask the question because that's the most important thing.
If you don't ask, you don't get.
So let's break that down because there's a lot of wisdom there and a particular takeaway
(10:38):
which is opportunity knocks and it is not necessarily the case that with opportunity
knocks you are well positioned to take advantage of it.
In fact, most of the time when opportunities present themselves, it's not quite convenient.
There may be a job, a child, an illness or lack of resources.
And in those moments, one consistent theme that I've seen from guests and I'm hearing
(11:01):
it from you is that people that end up being successful don't view that as a stop sign.
They view that as a challenge to overcome and they view their mission at that point
to determine a path.
They are unwilling to view it as an indication that it's not meant to be, which some people
(11:25):
might that kind of logic is prevalent among people that achieve less, but rather they
are determined to determine how to make it be.
So again, I know that your mother taught you to believe in yourself and the value of education,
but there's something else there.
There's something in you created that path to ingenuity.
(11:52):
So talk about that.
That kind of a mindset is oftentimes what's critical in moments like the one you face.
Opportunities there, you have to show ingenuity, you were able to.
Where did you find the gumption or the wherewithal in moments like that?
Time pressure, you have a month to even figure out that there was a path that you didn't
(12:19):
think, oh my gosh, a month, even if I found someone to sponsor me, it's not enough time,
et cetera, et cetera.
You found a way to, yes.
Talk to me about that mindset.
So first off, the opportunity that I got wasn't the opportunity that I wanted.
Okay.
What I really wanted to do was illustrate a children's book.
I had visions of me sitting at home coloring in like Beatrix Potser.
That's what I wanted to do.
I have no aspiration to be on TV whatsoever, but it was an opportunity and it was the only
(12:44):
one on the table.
So for me, it's always about making the most of what you've got in the moment.
There's only one opportunity on the table.
Take it, make it work, say yes and figure it out because you may only get that one opportunity.
And I know that so many people will say, opportunities come around all the time.
That's a really lovely mindset, but in reality, it doesn't always happen that way.
(13:08):
So for me, I figure if it feeds into the end goal somehow, even if I have to tweak it later,
I'll take it, I'll make it work and then I'll come back and I'll figure it out.
And I think that the key to that mindset is always that you have to think about what the
other person wants because if I'd have just gone to that company and said, can you pay
(13:29):
for this?
They would have said no.
But by going to them and saying, how would you like an hour of free TV coverage plus
your logo on a product that I've been told is going to sell out 1500 units in that hour?
Suddenly that looks like a much more interesting proposition to that company.
And so for me, it's always been service over sales.
(13:52):
What can I give you?
I'm not going to sell you anything.
What can I give you?
And then I get what I want in return.
So again, that opportunity was not the one I wanted, but I knew that later on I could
tweak it and I could turn it into something better.
I absolutely love this.
I absolutely love this.
So first of all, I wanted to just point out something that you said in regards to the
(14:15):
job that you had just been redundant for because it was a job that you didn't like.
And what a blessing that was.
Right?
What a positive blessing that was for you to sit there and say, you know what?
Forget all this.
I'm going to go do what I need to do.
(14:36):
And I'm mentioning that because as entrepreneurs, we also have to be mindful that we don't want
to create environments where our employees don't like their jobs.
So that's just something to keep in mind.
Sarah obviously is an amazing entrepreneur and I'm sure you were a fantastic employee.
But as an entrepreneur, you just got to keep in mind, keep the company culture good because
(14:59):
otherwise great talent will walk.
So that's just the one point that I wanted to make.
But secondly, congrats to you.
I love the fact that not only did you take the opportunity, but you were so laser focused
on making the most of that opportunity and to be able to say, okay, here's what I have.
What is everything else that I can attend to, to focus on that, to make that work.
(15:25):
And I just have nothing but respect and kudos for you for being able to realize, okay, I
want to do children's book, but this is something in TV.
What can make this work now?
Because I have this opportunity.
I'm not going to blow it.
And you just willed it to happen.
And I think that's fantastic.
And I'm proud of you.
I don't know you, but I'm very proud of you.
(15:46):
And I think it's very cool that you did that.
I think that that's such an important thing, even for people.
When I was in jobs previously, before I started my company, and obviously you do various jobs,
you kind of bounce around.
And I've had jobs since I was 13.
And every job, I hear people all the time go, I hate my job.
I hate my job.
(16:07):
Try and take something from it.
If you laser focus on what your goal is.
So for me, every job was a refining process.
I learned something I loved and something I hated.
Even when I went to a shoe shop, I hated the actual helping people put shoes on part of
it.
But I loved actually listening to people and hearing what they wanted.
Because often what they came in for wasn't what they wanted.
(16:27):
So if you listen to them and you find out what they want, then you can go, oh, actually
what you're looking for is this.
So all of these kind of jobs and things along the way for me was a refining process of,
right, I've learned I love this and I don't like that.
And in my next job, I want more of that and less of that.
And it was all moving up to that.
And I think learning those skills and learning how to refine down what you love and what
(16:49):
you don't love helps you become more successful later.
Well said.
You know, I mean, I definitely well said and a couple of points there, I think that are
worth teasing out.
One, you learn from that job that, you know, helping people put on shoes, which, you know,
literally probably not the physically most pleasant thing in the world to have to do.
(17:11):
But people oftentimes come to come to places, in this case, to buy shoes and don't actually
know what they want.
And having someone that is extremely attentive and is frankly interested in helping him find
what they want is a strength.
So a lot of people in service jobs or a lot of people just starting on their careers don't
(17:35):
see the opportunity to learn the massive skill of becoming in tune to what people are saying
and the massive power that you can gain if you become a master at listening to people
and helping tease out for them what they truly want.
That's a huge mastery.
(17:55):
I think the second part is that what a lot of people do that fall short in their lives
is complain, but they don't actually have a solution.
They just want to complain.
And if there's anything I've learned in my life, some of this has been relatively recent
learning is that there are a few behaviors that are particularly corrosive to your success.
(18:19):
Complaining, criticizing, those are two of the worst behaviors you can engage in.
Oftentimes we bring that home to our partner.
We bitch, we moan.
We don't take into consideration that they've also had a tough day and we're just bringing
negativity in.
When you bring in negativity into your mind or into your home, it takes away from your
(18:42):
powers and your energy.
So it's something that you should be mindful of.
It's clear that you are.
Let's talk about the fact you've created over 50 brands and sold millions of products.
Yet one thing that's interesting in the pre-interview, you emphasize success isn't all, quote, diamonds
and jet skis.
What's a common misconception about success that you wish more people understood?
(19:06):
I think for me, people put success down to a particular number or a particular thing
or they look at someone else and they go, well, that person's driving X car, so I've
got to have X car to keep up or they've got this particular type of house.
And I've mentored, you know, I mentored someone a couple of years ago who said to me, I want
to be like you.
(19:27):
And I said to her, but you've got three children.
And she went, yeah, I know, but I want to be like you.
And I said to her, I work 16 hours a day.
I spend at the time, it was like 40 weeks of my year traveling and at shows and events
and you know, out of the country.
How will you see your three young children?
And she went, oh, no, I can't do any of that.
(19:47):
I went, so you don't want to be like me.
What's your version of success?
And that's the biggest misconception is that it looks like something or you can quantify
it in some way.
I genuinely thought when I hit that first million, I'd be like, you know, that moment
where you're on stage or the gold foil comes down.
I thought it'd be like that.
But in reality, it was just another day.
(20:09):
And I can't even really remember that day anymore.
That's not what it's about.
It's about that feeling inside yourself of having purpose and wanting to get up in the
morning and wanting to do your job.
And that's for me a success and that for most people is what is success is, are you happy?
It's not a number.
It's not a jet ski.
(20:29):
It's not a car.
It's really not.
It's not a thing.
You can't quantify it.
It's a feeling.
Are you successful?
Yeah, I think I am successful.
Yeah.
And again, that's not down to a number or anything I own.
It's to do with the fact that I'm very happy with my life.
That's awesome.
Tal, what's your definition of success?
(20:51):
I'll get to the questions real fast.
But what's your definition of success?
Wow.
That's a difficult question to answer.
I think the definition of success is feeling that you're living the life you're meant to
live, doing the things that bring you joy and are surrounded by people that you love
and who love you.
That's also awesome.
(21:12):
I would quantify it as being able to help others breathe.
And what I mean by that is if I'm in a position to help others monetarily, philosophically,
emotionally, whatever, that means that I myself am in a good spot already.
So if I can help other people breathe or give them some relief in some way, then I think
(21:37):
I'm pretty successful.
Right?
So this is me.
But very, very cool.
So you have talked about Ms. Sarah, sorry, back to you.
You've talked about restructuring your business every few years to focus on what actually
makes you happy.
So what's your process for deciding when it's time to make that pivot?
And how do you stay true to what actually fulfills you?
(22:01):
So very simply, my marker for when I know I need to do that is when it stops becoming
fun.
And that sounds really basic and really simple, and it makes me sound really childlike.
But actually, I think if something is making you miserable, you need to find a way to make
it stop.
And for most people, I always think there's one of five things that makes you start a
(22:22):
business.
Okay?
There's money, fame, or ego, whichever way you want to look at it, legacy, purpose, or
fun.
For me, I thought my driver was money until I got money.
And then I realized actually, I'm more interested.
Obviously, you need enough to be able to live and breathe.
But then once you get to that point where you're comfortable, for me, it was actually
about fun.
(22:43):
And so when I stop having fun, I know it's time for me to look and review and go, right,
okay, what's pulling me back?
What's dragging me down?
Because if there's one thing that's out of sync with everything else, then it will affect
everything else.
Because if there's one thing on that list that I don't want to do, I'll avoid everything.
So as soon as I get to that point where I'm looking at my to-do list and, oh, I just can't,
(23:10):
I know it's time to review.
And then it's time to revisit what is the end goal?
What are the things that feed into the end goal?
What am I doing because I feel I should do it or because it looks like someone else's
version of success?
They're doing it, so I should be doing that.
And then I cut out everything that doesn't feed that end goal, that doesn't bring me
(23:30):
joy, that doesn't make me happy.
And that's not necessarily an overnight process of banging the door shut.
But it could be that I sell that bit on or I license that bit or I outsource that bit
or I delegate that bit and I just gradually restructure and change and make adjustments
as necessary.
I think that's a really, really important thing.
Do you have a personal practice to stay connected to yourself?
(23:54):
Because to do what you've just described requires taking the time to actually think about how
you feel, something that surprisingly a lot of people don't do.
So what is your practice to actually even be able to come to the conclusion that you're
not happy?
I know myself.
I know exactly what I want.
I know the end goal and I keep very, like you said earlier, very laser focused on that
(24:19):
end goal.
And you can kind of see things go off kilter.
And then I will notice things in my personal habits like, you stop kind of taking care
of yourself.
I don't drink as much water as I should and I don't go to the gym as much as I should
and I'm sleeping more and all of those kinds of things that you think actually I'm not
in a place I should be.
I'm not doing the things that make me feel good.
(24:41):
And so that's when you have to kind of look and go, right, okay, let's revisit the end
goal again.
What's gone wrong and where?
And quite often it's because I say yes to something because I feel I should do it or
because I feel I owe someone something or because I think it's a really good idea at
the time, but actually it didn't quite pan out how I would like.
(25:01):
And you have to kind of backtrack it a little bit without making it look like you've failed,
I guess.
You have to kind of get out of a situation gracefully.
But I have no problem in saying, do you know what, that just didn't work out.
That's fine.
Very cool.
So you have been called, and I understand that you provide this to us, obviously.
(25:24):
So you've been called a pushy little madam, which I actually kind of love, in your industry.
Why are you called that?
And how did this label, did this label have any effect on you or not?
So this came about in the very early days of me starting.
I'd done my first two, I think, shows on shopping TV.
(25:47):
And I was speaking to a manufacturer via email about making some product, him licensing my
product.
And I went to my first trade show and I was very nervous, obviously, you go to this massive
trade show.
And I spotted this guy on his stand and I thought, right, well, if I go up and say hello
to him, I'll feel more confident because that's someone that I know, right?
So I went up and I'm excited, you know, and I'm kind of bouncing off the walls a little
(26:10):
bit and I'm like, hi, I'm Sarah Herney.
And he looked around.
I mean, he wasn't busy or talking to anyone or anything, but he sort of looked around
and went, you're such a pushy little madam.
And in that moment, I was mortified.
I could feel myself shrinking into myself.
(26:30):
And in that moment, yeah, it took my power out.
It took the wind out of my sails.
Yeah, that was a hard moment, you know, thinking back on that was a hard moment.
But what I did, I took some time to regroup and I went back into that show.
And by the way, I now have a large section of that show that's named for my academy.
(26:54):
So I really took that power back.
And I reframed that completely.
And now I'm actually really proud of the pushy little madam title and I use it myself because
I think if you reframe it in your head, it takes the power out of it.
And I remember this quote from I think it was Salma Hayek who said, if someone shouted
at you in a language you didn't understand, it'd have no power because you didn't understand
(27:16):
it.
And it's all about how you reframe that moment.
And that really stuck with me.
And yeah, once I reframed it, I thought, yeah, that's a really good thing to be because you
should, if I'm not pushing for my dream, who is?
If you're not doing enough to get a title, right?
I think reframing is so important because it gives you the space to give yourself the
(27:43):
grace and the foundation you need to move forward.
And people can be very blithe about, you know, how they affect people or the words they use,
right?
Like this gentleman was in a moment of exasperation or who knows what, but it wasn't, as we would
say, it isn't cool, right?
It wasn't the right thing to do.
(28:05):
And the fact that you were able to kind of take that and say, all right, you took the
wind out on my sails, but now I'm going to go ahead and get my footing about me and approach
it from a different way, I think is perfect, right?
It's exactly what you should do.
So after the show, share his name and address with me and Tal and we'll go have words with
(28:26):
him.
We'll take care of it.
Yeah, we'll take care of it for sure.
You know, I was thinking as you were reflecting on that, and for those of you watching on
YouTube, you might have noticed I was getting emotional about that.
That was a moment that was searing.
And many of us have had moments like that in our lives, whether professional or in our
personal lives, that really impact us.
(28:47):
And I remember being a teenager and having my shirt off and having someone comment on
the way my chest looked.
And it is stuck in my head ever since.
It doesn't matter how many chest curls I've done since.
I was never able to get that out of my head.
So that's something that that's a power we have as people to harm others that we should
(29:10):
be very mindful of.
If you're going to say something nasty or do something nasty, there's another human
being on the other side of that.
And the power of reframe is something we own.
How we think is how we feel.
You have every opportunity at moments like that to recognize whoever said that.
Even if that's their opinion, you know, as they say, people are entitled to their opinions.
(29:33):
We all have them, much like we all have certain body parts and we only have one of.
I'm not going to go there.
But the bottom line is it doesn't make it appropriate.
And it does make them an a-hole.
So maybe I guess I will go there a little bit.
Sarah, let's talk about the Sarah Hurley Academy.
It's all about empowering others to find their version of success.
(29:55):
Is there a story or a person that really was inspiring to you?
Something that someone that perhaps you saw in the early stages and then you saw them
take this to a place that made you proud?
So I started the Academy because of experiences that happened in my life and, you know, mentoring
(30:17):
people and realizing some of the advice that they'd received and just thinking, oh my gosh,
like you're being told such irresponsible things and that shouldn't be allowed.
Or we're all, you know, pushing you towards one goal.
That's not your goal.
Like there was no listening.
There was no feedback.
And I thought, actually, I can do this so much better.
And after my husband died and seeing some of the things that I saw, that was my final
(30:40):
oomph to like go for it and really push for it.
And seeing the effect that the way that I teach has on people has pushed me to keep
going.
And it's really become like the passion project of my last two years.
Wow.
So how do you, first of all, I'm so sorry you've gone through that, right?
(31:04):
You had to deal with an abusive marriage the first time around, the second time around.
You lose him, right?
That's two of the worst endings of marriages that I can think of.
So I'm very sorry that you went through that.
How do you avoid getting smired in the feelings of feeling sorry for yourself?
(31:26):
And how do you avoid succumbing to that kind of pain that allows you to keep putting that
one foot in front of the other?
Like what's that inner mantra that you have going on?
Or what do you do to help you through that?
Purpose.
It's literally that purpose.
So straight away, I mean, after my first marriage, I just kind of jumped back in.
(31:50):
You get on with life.
I felt blessed to be out of it, to be honest.
So I just felt free and excited about life again.
So that was a good experience.
As much as it was a bad experience, it led to a good experience.
And then after my husband died, it was just literally about purpose.
And I thought, right, how can I, again, reframe this and make it into something that will
(32:13):
drive me forward?
Because if I give up and I just sit at home crying, that doesn't do justice to his life.
It doesn't do justice to the relationship we had.
And so for me, it was like, how do I push forward?
And while I was caring for him during those three years I cared for him, I saw so many
(32:34):
women who not only were losing their partner, but they were losing their breadwinner.
They were losing their homes.
They were having to downsize.
They were having to choose the days they could visit their husband.
And all of these things, and I thought this shouldn't be a thing.
We should all have financial freedom.
And that doesn't mean being a millionaire.
That's where I say it's not diamonds and jet skis.
(32:55):
It's about being able to say, my husband's sick and I want to visit him every day.
And I want to have the freedom to do that.
Or he wants to do this before he does.
And I can pay for that.
All of those things.
Or there's an experimental treatment.
We're going to go all in.
We're going to try this.
All of those things hit me.
(33:16):
And so taking that and making it my purpose gave me that purpose to get up in the morning.
I'm going to keep driving forward.
I'm going to keep going.
I'm going to keep pushing.
Because I want to help other people in that situation.
I know what that feels like.
And I just want to be able to help people to push forward and to turn that pain around
(33:38):
a little bit.
Just having that freedom to breathe out and go, right, all I have to focus on is that.
All of that other stuff will take care of itself.
Are there mostly women who come to Sarah Hurley Academy?
How do people find out about Sarah Hurley Academy?
So it is mostly women.
(34:00):
And I think that's partly because of my story and partly because generally what we see is,
and all the research backs this up, is that being widowed affects men and women differently.
So men, it's a much more emotional thing of they feel lonely and they're learning to all
these things for themselves.
And for women, obviously we have the emotional thing, but we have all these practical things
(34:22):
as well.
And if the husband's been the breadwinner, especially if you've been raising a family
and things like that, you suddenly have all these other concerns.
And there's things like if the house is in his name or the mortgage is in his name and
all of those kinds of things that maybe you haven't really been switched on to until someone
(34:43):
dies.
As they say, we all have a plan until someone gets punched in the face.
And it's like being punched in the face repeatedly until you kind of go, oh my gosh, I need to
do these things.
Yeah, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you.
My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and luckily we caught it early and her prognosis
(35:07):
is excellent.
It's still a slog, right?
It's still a tremendous amount to go through and everything.
And I kind of expected a little bit of time where there was going to be a pity party and
a woe is me and everything, but she found out and maybe an hour she was sad and then
the rest was, you know what, the only way is through and we're just going to get on
(35:33):
this horse and we're going to ride it until we're done.
And so I have a lot of respect for you for everything that you've been through and that
drive to keep going.
So kudos to you on that.
I wanted to ask about the very soon release, I'm sure you're very excited about your first
business book.
(35:54):
So can you give us a little sneak peek into what readers can expect and like the core
message that you're trying to share out there?
So this is all focused on lessons I've learned during business and these are not like, this
is how you do a balance sheet.
It's really practical hands on lessons of things I've learned, things to be aware of.
(36:17):
The stuff people don't tell you is everything that I've tried to put in this book and I've
already actually got like my leftover notes for book two.
So yeah, and it's called, what's your little madam?
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, nice.
Love it.
Love it.
Well, we're going to have Sarah, I don't know if you're aware of this, you or your team,
(36:38):
whoever reached out to us has committed you to write a blog post and so we're going to
try to get a blog post, maybe one of those lessons, give people a taste of what they
may find when they pick up the book.
I want to finish on a lighter note.
You mentioned to us that you trained to be a lawyer and you had dreams of joining MI5
for those of you who are not in the UK.
(37:01):
That's the equivalent of, that's the equivalent.
Is that the FBI or the CIA?
I should probably know that.
I think it's, is MI5 the CIA or the FBI's equivalent?
I think it's FBI.
I don't know.
Is it FBI?
Yeah, I think it's FBI.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, I probably should have known that before I asked the question, but I didn't.
But you pivoted just a week into the job.
(37:21):
So what's the story behind that abroad career change?
So I really love law and I'm so interested in it and I loved the study of law and I had
all these high hopes.
I'd watched all these kind of drama series.
There's one British drama series called Spooks, which if you watch it, it's amazing.
(37:41):
It's from the early 2000s.
But it's such a kind of exciting kind of drama and I had these visions of me racing through
London and finding dead drops and stuff.
And then when I started doing, so you start off kind of in chambers looking at cases.
And the first thing I realized was cases are allocated kind of first come first serve.
(38:04):
And I have a very strong sense of justice.
And I thought there's absolutely no way that I could defend someone if I knew they were
guilty.
So straight away, I started thinking maybe this isn't for me.
I need to find a way to pivot into MI5 really quickly.
So I started applying for kind of admin jobs there.
And I got through like the first round of questions.
(38:26):
And then they start telling you about how you have to sign the National Secrets Act
and all of these kind of things.
And I thought to myself, you need to be realistic here, right?
Because it's a massive commitment.
It's a life changing commitment.
I'm a little bit chatty, especially if I've had a vodka or two.
I don't really drink anymore.
But if I've had a vodka or two, I'm definitely really chatty.
(38:47):
And I still there are going to be national secrets all over London.
And I just cannot do this because I am a liability in this position.
So effectively, you were trying to keep yourself out of prison.
That's what I'm hearing.
And alive would be really good.
And also I feel like I'm protecting my country just by not doing it.
So I'm going to carry on.
I love it.
(39:08):
Create products.
That's safe.
It's a safe area for me.
My assumption was you didn't like the wig.
I mean, I don't know if they still have to do it, but you didn't like the wig that you'd
have to wear if you went to court.
Is that a thing?
Do they still have to wear wigs?
You do have to wear wigs.
But I liked it.
I thought it looked really cool.
I was really excited about the wig.
I was really excited about what the process is.
(39:29):
But it was all the other bits I hadn't really considered.
So as soon as the reality started kicking in, I was like, oh, okay, maybe not for me.
That's funny.
Well, you know what?
For those of you who are going to potentially have the opportunity to do business with Sarah,
you know how to potentially get the best deal possible.
A couple of options.
And you're going to get a more pliant partner on the other side.
(39:52):
Sarah, it's been a great pleasure.
We'd love to have you back when the book is out and talk about it.
And we're delighted to have you.
Incredibly, the Braving Business Podcast, we're a top 1% global podcast of popularity,
not just in business, but for all podcasts.
And about a third of our listenership is overseas and a fair bit of it is in the UK.
So we're really grateful to you and your team for reaching out to us and for choosing to
(40:16):
be with us today.
And thank you to all of you listening to us across the pond.
And for sure, you're a shining example of what the Braving Business Podcast is all about.
Someone that, A, pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps.
Second, someone that refused to be cowed by a whole range of challenges, showed resilience
(40:36):
every step of the way from go, showed ingenuity, cares about other people.
You are what this podcast is about.
And I'm truly, truly grateful for you for spending time with us today.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And that's a wrap, folks.
Like what you heard, want to support the show?
Please follow our page on LinkedIn and Facebook, visit us on YouTube, and please like and rate
(40:59):
us on all of your favorite podcast streaming services.
You can also see exclusive content, subscribe for free to our weekly blog, support our sponsors,
and soon buy our merchandise at www.bravingbusiness.com.
Thanks for being a part of our production and we'll see you next time on the Braving
Business Podcast.
Hey there, I'm Tals Lotnitsky from Ignite IT Consulting.
(00:05):
You know me from the Braving Business podcast, but when I'm not behind the mic, I'm helping
tech startups and established companies ignite their full potential.
I also help entrepreneurs and businesses in distress reset for success.
With over three decades of entrepreneurial success, I bring hands-on experience to drive
growth, navigate turnarounds, raise capital, and lead to innovation.
(00:28):
Whether it's executive coaching or strategic transformation, I'm here to turn your business
challenges into success stories.
Visit igniteitconsulting.com and let's spark that change together.
That's igniteitconsulting.com.
Your journey to business brilliance starts now.
And one last quick thing.
(00:49):
If you enjoyed this episode, please stay on after the show to learn more about the Braving
Business podcast and other great episodes for you to discover.
And now, let's get the show started.
(01:12):
Well hello there.
Hey brother.
How are you?
I am well.
That was somewhere between hey bud and hey brother.
I know.
That being a broad.
I've been called worse, so I'll take bread.
How are you?
No, I asked first.
Oh gosh darn it.
I'm okay.
I'm doing well.
I'm doing well.
(01:33):
How about you, sir?
I am okay.
I just had an interesting experience.
I went to see Cyndi Lauper in concert, which I was really looking forward to because I
don't know if you know this, but she has not done a concert series since 1986.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, she'd done some Broadway, but she hadn't done a tour.
So I was looking forward to it and she filled Emily Arena in Tampa Bay.
(01:58):
And the design of the show was top notch, but her singing, ouch.
Oh really?
Showing the, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, unfortunately we're getting to the age now where that happens.
Did you see Stevie Nicks on SNL?
Did I?
No.
(02:18):
Oh, she was on, she was, and she was great, but the first song she sang is one that no
one knew, it was like a new song.
And when it first started out, I was like, oh boy, this is rough.
This is a little rough.
She caught her stride later, but it was, at first I was like, oh boy.
I mean, we all age, you know, it's tough.
I can appreciate her maybe not being as mindful of how she sounds.
(02:40):
I'm a little surprised that, you know, people in her entourage aren't, let's put it this
way.
There should be a significant weight given to recordings and her mic should be a lot
lower.
That would be my recommendation.
I don't know.
Maybe that's unkind.
Sarah, have you seen a concert where, you know, maybe, or listened to someone that you
(03:01):
wondered, man, what happened to that guy or gal?
Their voice is not what it used to be.
Do you know, I was really hoping to go and see Sting and I saw like a clip of it on TV
recently and I was like, yeah, I think I'll leave it in my head.
You know, don't meet your heroes and all that.
It's funny you said it because we got in the car, we actually listened to recordings of
(03:22):
her because we really need it to just restore that sound.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anyway, PJ, why don't we introduce Sarah and get the show on the road.
Absolutely.
So today we have the fantastic Miss Sarah Hurley, a remarkable entrepreneur whose journey
is a testament to the power of resilience, self-belief and just sheer determination.
(03:45):
Sarah started her company, SH Brands Group, with nothing more than her last 40 pound sterling,
which what is like 50, 52 bucks or something like that?
And turned out, yeah, right around there and turned it into a seven figure global licensing
empire in just five years.
But Sarah's story goes much deeper than just business success.
(04:06):
Growing up in poverty with a single mother and without a father in her life, Sarah learned
early that hard work and education were the keys to a better future.
So she taught herself everything that she could about business using every spare moment
to empower herself.
Her journey was not without challenges, however.
She survived an abusive first marriage and after finding love again, tragically lost
(04:26):
her second husband just five years ago.
Oh my gosh, I'm sorry.
This profound loss inspired Sarah to launch the Sarah Hurley Academy, dedicated to helping
others achieve financial freedom and their own versions of success.
And unlike many, Sarah's approach is grounded in reality, teaching sustainable business
principles rather than making unrealistic promises.
(04:49):
Over the years, she's created over 50 brands and sold over 30 million licensed products,
all while staying true to her mission of giving back.
Sarah believes that the journey, no matter how difficult, only makes us stronger.
And today she's here to share her profit story of overcoming adversity, building resilience
and lifting up others along the way.
(05:10):
Sarah, welcome to the Braving Business Podcast.
Thank you for having me.
Of course.
Sarah, what a story.
Over the three seasons that we've been on the air, we've had a number of incredibly
inspiring people with incredibly inspiring stories.
Our second episode, we had a woman that lost her sight and used that as motivation to build
(05:34):
AI for people that are blind.
So it always inspires me, as someone himself didn't grow up with a silver spoon, to bring
on the air people who can share a story that I think for many people in the audience, not
only represents a closer version of their life story, but they can draw a lot more inspiration
(05:56):
and potentially some specific life lessons from.
So you grew up with very little and you had to teach yourself business skills from scratch
and some other skills.
What was one pivotal moment in your childhood that made you believe you could break the
cycle and create a successful life for yourself?
(06:16):
For me, I was very lucky that my mom, she brought me up in a certain way.
We always had books, was always told the power of education, you could be anything.
And my mom was never that person that was like, when you get married, when you have
babies or if I say I want to be an astronaut, she wouldn't kind of laugh at it or anything
else.
(06:37):
And she would very much be like, oh, cool.
So like when you get fitted for your space suit, this will happen.
So nothing was made to feel impossible.
Everything felt very available and very possible.
So I kind of grew up, I guess in some ways a little bit naive in that I didn't know that
probably a lot of things were not going to be available to me until I got to kind of
(07:01):
14, 15 at school, and you start seeing careers advisors and stuff and they start going, well,
you won't be able to afford that education path or you won't be able to afford to do
that.
And by that point, I was so strong minded in that, well, I can do that.
I can do it.
You've just got to find a way.
So I was never told, no, I was never told you can't.
(07:22):
I was always told if you work hard enough and you learn enough and you keep going, you
can do anything.
So I suppose my pivotal moment really is just my mom's encouragement.
My granddad's, you know, my granddad was very supportive and educational and very much took
on like the father role in my life as well.
So I suppose those two people really shaped me.
Wow.
(07:43):
Wow.
So you went ahead, you kind of plowed through all the self doubt.
You believed in yourself.
You took the advice of your older familial influencers, which is fantastic.
And then you started a business with just 40 pounds in your pocket and you grew it to
(08:04):
a seven figure company.
How did you navigate those early days?
And when like when resources obviously were not even just limited, they just weren't there.
And how did you find the confidence to keep going?
Again, there was no, there was sort of no planning.
And I guess that kind of naivety and the not knowing helped me.
(08:24):
So when I started with the 40 pounds, my thing was literally just, I've just been made redundant
from a job that I didn't even want.
And I thought, well, I may as well have a go at something I'd actually like to do.
And so my goal at that point was just to illustrate some books to, you know, maybe some children's
books or some creative products.
And so I just started sending stuff out to people.
(08:48):
And yeah, it was just, it was just that really just no one's until like later on in my career
and people are like, you can't just email the CEO.
And I was like, oh, why?
You know, why, why can't I ask those questions?
And so, you know, the lack of money.
So what happened was I actually sent some stuff, I was sending stuff out to people and
I got a call from a TV shopping channel and they said to me, come in and see us.
(09:12):
So I actually spent that last 40 pounds on a train ticket to go and see them.
And they said, your stuff is amazing.
We'd like to launch your products on TV of four weeks.
And I went great.
And then on the train home went, but I've got no money to manufacture those products.
So my first port of call was right.
Okay, what, what can I give someone?
So what I could give someone was some TV exposure because I was about to have an hour of live
(09:35):
TV and what product could I create that would work well with someone else's product that
maybe wasn't exciting on its own.
But if I showed it with my product, they would sponsor me and that would pay for the manufacturing
of my product.
So I created a craft kit that needed some coloring and I contacted a marker brand because
(09:56):
on their own markers are not very exciting unless you show what they can do.
And I asked if they would sponsor it.
They would get their logo all over my packaging.
I would also sell their products alongside mine on TV and they would get that hour of
TV exposure with me also talking about how great their products were.
And they were the must have thing to go with mine.
And they agreed and that paid for my first manufacturing run.
(10:17):
And it went from there and I reinvested and reinvested and reinvested and I didn't take
a penny out for at least two years and just kept putting money back in.
But I was never afraid to ask the question because that's the most important thing.
If you don't ask, you don't get.
So let's break that down because there's a lot of wisdom there and a particular takeaway
(10:38):
which is opportunity knocks and it is not necessarily the case that with opportunity
knocks you are well positioned to take advantage of it.
In fact, most of the time when opportunities present themselves, it's not quite convenient.
There may be a job, a child, an illness or lack of resources.
And in those moments, one consistent theme that I've seen from guests and I'm hearing
(11:01):
it from you is that people that end up being successful don't view that as a stop sign.
They view that as a challenge to overcome and they view their mission at that point
to determine a path.
They are unwilling to view it as an indication that it's not meant to be, which some people
(11:25):
might that kind of logic is prevalent among people that achieve less, but rather they
are determined to determine how to make it be.
So again, I know that your mother taught you to believe in yourself and the value of education,
but there's something else there.
There's something in you created that path to ingenuity.
(11:52):
So talk about that.
That kind of a mindset is oftentimes what's critical in moments like the one you face.
Opportunities there, you have to show ingenuity, you were able to.
Where did you find the gumption or the wherewithal in moments like that?
Time pressure, you have a month to even figure out that there was a path that you didn't
(12:19):
think, oh my gosh, a month, even if I found someone to sponsor me, it's not enough time,
et cetera, et cetera.
You found a way to, yes.
Talk to me about that mindset.
So first off, the opportunity that I got wasn't the opportunity that I wanted.
Okay.
What I really wanted to do was illustrate a children's book.
I had visions of me sitting at home coloring in like Beatrix Potser.
That's what I wanted to do.
I have no aspiration to be on TV whatsoever, but it was an opportunity and it was the only
(12:44):
one on the table.
So for me, it's always about making the most of what you've got in the moment.
There's only one opportunity on the table.
Take it, make it work, say yes and figure it out because you may only get that one opportunity.
And I know that so many people will say, opportunities come around all the time.
That's a really lovely mindset, but in reality, it doesn't always happen that way.
(13:08):
So for me, I figure if it feeds into the end goal somehow, even if I have to tweak it later,
I'll take it, I'll make it work and then I'll come back and I'll figure it out.
And I think that the key to that mindset is always that you have to think about what the
other person wants because if I'd have just gone to that company and said, can you pay
(13:29):
for this?
They would have said no.
But by going to them and saying, how would you like an hour of free TV coverage plus
your logo on a product that I've been told is going to sell out 1500 units in that hour?
Suddenly that looks like a much more interesting proposition to that company.
And so for me, it's always been service over sales.
(13:52):
What can I give you?
I'm not going to sell you anything.
What can I give you?
And then I get what I want in return.
So again, that opportunity was not the one I wanted, but I knew that later on I could
tweak it and I could turn it into something better.
I absolutely love this.
I absolutely love this.
So first of all, I wanted to just point out something that you said in regards to the
(14:15):
job that you had just been redundant for because it was a job that you didn't like.
And what a blessing that was.
Right?
What a positive blessing that was for you to sit there and say, you know what?
Forget all this.
I'm going to go do what I need to do.
(14:36):
And I'm mentioning that because as entrepreneurs, we also have to be mindful that we don't want
to create environments where our employees don't like their jobs.
So that's just something to keep in mind.
Sarah obviously is an amazing entrepreneur and I'm sure you were a fantastic employee.
But as an entrepreneur, you just got to keep in mind, keep the company culture good because
(14:59):
otherwise great talent will walk.
So that's just the one point that I wanted to make.
But secondly, congrats to you.
I love the fact that not only did you take the opportunity, but you were so laser focused
on making the most of that opportunity and to be able to say, okay, here's what I have.
What is everything else that I can attend to, to focus on that, to make that work.
(15:25):
And I just have nothing but respect and kudos for you for being able to realize, okay, I
want to do children's book, but this is something in TV.
What can make this work now?
Because I have this opportunity.
I'm not going to blow it.
And you just willed it to happen.
And I think that's fantastic.
And I'm proud of you.
I don't know you, but I'm very proud of you.
(15:46):
And I think it's very cool that you did that.
I think that that's such an important thing, even for people.
When I was in jobs previously, before I started my company, and obviously you do various jobs,
you kind of bounce around.
And I've had jobs since I was 13.
And every job, I hear people all the time go, I hate my job.
I hate my job.
(16:07):
Try and take something from it.
If you laser focus on what your goal is.
So for me, every job was a refining process.
I learned something I loved and something I hated.
Even when I went to a shoe shop, I hated the actual helping people put shoes on part of
it.
But I loved actually listening to people and hearing what they wanted.
Because often what they came in for wasn't what they wanted.
(16:27):
So if you listen to them and you find out what they want, then you can go, oh, actually
what you're looking for is this.
So all of these kind of jobs and things along the way for me was a refining process of,
right, I've learned I love this and I don't like that.
And in my next job, I want more of that and less of that.
And it was all moving up to that.
And I think learning those skills and learning how to refine down what you love and what
(16:49):
you don't love helps you become more successful later.
Well said.
You know, I mean, I definitely well said and a couple of points there, I think that are
worth teasing out.
One, you learn from that job that, you know, helping people put on shoes, which, you know,
literally probably not the physically most pleasant thing in the world to have to do.
(17:11):
But people oftentimes come to come to places, in this case, to buy shoes and don't actually
know what they want.
And having someone that is extremely attentive and is frankly interested in helping him find
what they want is a strength.
So a lot of people in service jobs or a lot of people just starting on their careers don't
(17:35):
see the opportunity to learn the massive skill of becoming in tune to what people are saying
and the massive power that you can gain if you become a master at listening to people
and helping tease out for them what they truly want.
That's a huge mastery.
(17:55):
I think the second part is that what a lot of people do that fall short in their lives
is complain, but they don't actually have a solution.
They just want to complain.
And if there's anything I've learned in my life, some of this has been relatively recent
learning is that there are a few behaviors that are particularly corrosive to your success.
(18:19):
Complaining, criticizing, those are two of the worst behaviors you can engage in.
Oftentimes we bring that home to our partner.
We bitch, we moan.
We don't take into consideration that they've also had a tough day and we're just bringing
negativity in.
When you bring in negativity into your mind or into your home, it takes away from your
(18:42):
powers and your energy.
So it's something that you should be mindful of.
It's clear that you are.
Let's talk about the fact you've created over 50 brands and sold millions of products.
Yet one thing that's interesting in the pre-interview, you emphasize success isn't all, quote, diamonds
and jet skis.
What's a common misconception about success that you wish more people understood?
(19:06):
I think for me, people put success down to a particular number or a particular thing
or they look at someone else and they go, well, that person's driving X car, so I've
got to have X car to keep up or they've got this particular type of house.
And I've mentored, you know, I mentored someone a couple of years ago who said to me, I want
to be like you.
(19:27):
And I said to her, but you've got three children.
And she went, yeah, I know, but I want to be like you.
And I said to her, I work 16 hours a day.
I spend at the time, it was like 40 weeks of my year traveling and at shows and events
and you know, out of the country.
How will you see your three young children?
And she went, oh, no, I can't do any of that.
(19:47):
I went, so you don't want to be like me.
What's your version of success?
And that's the biggest misconception is that it looks like something or you can quantify
it in some way.
I genuinely thought when I hit that first million, I'd be like, you know, that moment
where you're on stage or the gold foil comes down.
I thought it'd be like that.
But in reality, it was just another day.
(20:09):
And I can't even really remember that day anymore.
That's not what it's about.
It's about that feeling inside yourself of having purpose and wanting to get up in the
morning and wanting to do your job.
And that's for me a success and that for most people is what is success is, are you happy?
It's not a number.
It's not a jet ski.
(20:29):
It's not a car.
It's really not.
It's not a thing.
You can't quantify it.
It's a feeling.
Are you successful?
Yeah, I think I am successful.
Yeah.
And again, that's not down to a number or anything I own.
It's to do with the fact that I'm very happy with my life.
That's awesome.
Tal, what's your definition of success?
(20:51):
I'll get to the questions real fast.
But what's your definition of success?
Wow.
That's a difficult question to answer.
I think the definition of success is feeling that you're living the life you're meant to
live, doing the things that bring you joy and are surrounded by people that you love
and who love you.
That's also awesome.
(21:12):
I would quantify it as being able to help others breathe.
And what I mean by that is if I'm in a position to help others monetarily, philosophically,
emotionally, whatever, that means that I myself am in a good spot already.
So if I can help other people breathe or give them some relief in some way, then I think
(21:37):
I'm pretty successful.
Right?
So this is me.
But very, very cool.
So you have talked about Ms. Sarah, sorry, back to you.
You've talked about restructuring your business every few years to focus on what actually
makes you happy.
So what's your process for deciding when it's time to make that pivot?
And how do you stay true to what actually fulfills you?
(22:01):
So very simply, my marker for when I know I need to do that is when it stops becoming
fun.
And that sounds really basic and really simple, and it makes me sound really childlike.
But actually, I think if something is making you miserable, you need to find a way to make
it stop.
And for most people, I always think there's one of five things that makes you start a
(22:22):
business.
Okay?
There's money, fame, or ego, whichever way you want to look at it, legacy, purpose, or
fun.
For me, I thought my driver was money until I got money.
And then I realized actually, I'm more interested.
Obviously, you need enough to be able to live and breathe.
But then once you get to that point where you're comfortable, for me, it was actually
about fun.
(22:43):
And so when I stop having fun, I know it's time for me to look and review and go, right,
okay, what's pulling me back?
What's dragging me down?
Because if there's one thing that's out of sync with everything else, then it will affect
everything else.
Because if there's one thing on that list that I don't want to do, I'll avoid everything.
So as soon as I get to that point where I'm looking at my to-do list and, oh, I just can't,
(23:10):
I know it's time to review.
And then it's time to revisit what is the end goal?
What are the things that feed into the end goal?
What am I doing because I feel I should do it or because it looks like someone else's
version of success?
They're doing it, so I should be doing that.
And then I cut out everything that doesn't feed that end goal, that doesn't bring me
(23:30):
joy, that doesn't make me happy.
And that's not necessarily an overnight process of banging the door shut.
But it could be that I sell that bit on or I license that bit or I outsource that bit
or I delegate that bit and I just gradually restructure and change and make adjustments
as necessary.
I think that's a really, really important thing.
Do you have a personal practice to stay connected to yourself?
(23:54):
Because to do what you've just described requires taking the time to actually think about how
you feel, something that surprisingly a lot of people don't do.
So what is your practice to actually even be able to come to the conclusion that you're
not happy?
I know myself.
I know exactly what I want.
I know the end goal and I keep very, like you said earlier, very laser focused on that
(24:19):
end goal.
And you can kind of see things go off kilter.
And then I will notice things in my personal habits like, you stop kind of taking care
of yourself.
I don't drink as much water as I should and I don't go to the gym as much as I should
and I'm sleeping more and all of those kinds of things that you think actually I'm not
in a place I should be.
I'm not doing the things that make me feel good.
(24:41):
And so that's when you have to kind of look and go, right, okay, let's revisit the end
goal again.
What's gone wrong and where?
And quite often it's because I say yes to something because I feel I should do it or
because I feel I owe someone something or because I think it's a really good idea at
the time, but actually it didn't quite pan out how I would like.
(25:01):
And you have to kind of backtrack it a little bit without making it look like you've failed,
I guess.
You have to kind of get out of a situation gracefully.
But I have no problem in saying, do you know what, that just didn't work out.
That's fine.
Very cool.
So you have been called, and I understand that you provide this to us, obviously.
(25:24):
So you've been called a pushy little madam, which I actually kind of love, in your industry.
Why are you called that?
And how did this label, did this label have any effect on you or not?
So this came about in the very early days of me starting.
I'd done my first two, I think, shows on shopping TV.
(25:47):
And I was speaking to a manufacturer via email about making some product, him licensing my
product.
And I went to my first trade show and I was very nervous, obviously, you go to this massive
trade show.
And I spotted this guy on his stand and I thought, right, well, if I go up and say hello
to him, I'll feel more confident because that's someone that I know, right?
So I went up and I'm excited, you know, and I'm kind of bouncing off the walls a little
(26:10):
bit and I'm like, hi, I'm Sarah Herney.
And he looked around.
I mean, he wasn't busy or talking to anyone or anything, but he sort of looked around
and went, you're such a pushy little madam.
And in that moment, I was mortified.
I could feel myself shrinking into myself.
(26:30):
And in that moment, yeah, it took my power out.
It took the wind out of my sails.
Yeah, that was a hard moment, you know, thinking back on that was a hard moment.
But what I did, I took some time to regroup and I went back into that show.
And by the way, I now have a large section of that show that's named for my academy.
(26:54):
So I really took that power back.
And I reframed that completely.
And now I'm actually really proud of the pushy little madam title and I use it myself because
I think if you reframe it in your head, it takes the power out of it.
And I remember this quote from I think it was Salma Hayek who said, if someone shouted
at you in a language you didn't understand, it'd have no power because you didn't understand
(27:16):
it.
And it's all about how you reframe that moment.
And that really stuck with me.
And yeah, once I reframed it, I thought, yeah, that's a really good thing to be because you
should, if I'm not pushing for my dream, who is?
If you're not doing enough to get a title, right?
I think reframing is so important because it gives you the space to give yourself the
(27:43):
grace and the foundation you need to move forward.
And people can be very blithe about, you know, how they affect people or the words they use,
right?
Like this gentleman was in a moment of exasperation or who knows what, but it wasn't, as we would
say, it isn't cool, right?
It wasn't the right thing to do.
(28:05):
And the fact that you were able to kind of take that and say, all right, you took the
wind out on my sails, but now I'm going to go ahead and get my footing about me and approach
it from a different way, I think is perfect, right?
It's exactly what you should do.
So after the show, share his name and address with me and Tal and we'll go have words with
(28:26):
him.
We'll take care of it.
Yeah, we'll take care of it for sure.
You know, I was thinking as you were reflecting on that, and for those of you watching on
YouTube, you might have noticed I was getting emotional about that.
That was a moment that was searing.
And many of us have had moments like that in our lives, whether professional or in our
personal lives, that really impact us.
(28:47):
And I remember being a teenager and having my shirt off and having someone comment on
the way my chest looked.
And it is stuck in my head ever since.
It doesn't matter how many chest curls I've done since.
I was never able to get that out of my head.
So that's something that that's a power we have as people to harm others that we should
(29:10):
be very mindful of.
If you're going to say something nasty or do something nasty, there's another human
being on the other side of that.
And the power of reframe is something we own.
How we think is how we feel.
You have every opportunity at moments like that to recognize whoever said that.
Even if that's their opinion, you know, as they say, people are entitled to their opinions.
(29:33):
We all have them, much like we all have certain body parts and we only have one of.
I'm not going to go there.
But the bottom line is it doesn't make it appropriate.
And it does make them an a-hole.
So maybe I guess I will go there a little bit.
Sarah, let's talk about the Sarah Hurley Academy.
It's all about empowering others to find their version of success.
(29:55):
Is there a story or a person that really was inspiring to you?
Something that someone that perhaps you saw in the early stages and then you saw them
take this to a place that made you proud?
So I started the Academy because of experiences that happened in my life and, you know, mentoring
(30:17):
people and realizing some of the advice that they'd received and just thinking, oh my gosh,
like you're being told such irresponsible things and that shouldn't be allowed.
Or we're all, you know, pushing you towards one goal.
That's not your goal.
Like there was no listening.
There was no feedback.
And I thought, actually, I can do this so much better.
And after my husband died and seeing some of the things that I saw, that was my final
(30:40):
oomph to like go for it and really push for it.
And seeing the effect that the way that I teach has on people has pushed me to keep
going.
And it's really become like the passion project of my last two years.
Wow.
So how do you, first of all, I'm so sorry you've gone through that, right?
(31:04):
You had to deal with an abusive marriage the first time around, the second time around.
You lose him, right?
That's two of the worst endings of marriages that I can think of.
So I'm very sorry that you went through that.
How do you avoid getting smired in the feelings of feeling sorry for yourself?
(31:26):
And how do you avoid succumbing to that kind of pain that allows you to keep putting that
one foot in front of the other?
Like what's that inner mantra that you have going on?
Or what do you do to help you through that?
Purpose.
It's literally that purpose.
So straight away, I mean, after my first marriage, I just kind of jumped back in.
(31:50):
You get on with life.
I felt blessed to be out of it, to be honest.
So I just felt free and excited about life again.
So that was a good experience.
As much as it was a bad experience, it led to a good experience.
And then after my husband died, it was just literally about purpose.
And I thought, right, how can I, again, reframe this and make it into something that will
(32:13):
drive me forward?
Because if I give up and I just sit at home crying, that doesn't do justice to his life.
It doesn't do justice to the relationship we had.
And so for me, it was like, how do I push forward?
And while I was caring for him during those three years I cared for him, I saw so many
(32:34):
women who not only were losing their partner, but they were losing their breadwinner.
They were losing their homes.
They were having to downsize.
They were having to choose the days they could visit their husband.
And all of these things, and I thought this shouldn't be a thing.
We should all have financial freedom.
And that doesn't mean being a millionaire.
That's where I say it's not diamonds and jet skis.
(32:55):
It's about being able to say, my husband's sick and I want to visit him every day.
And I want to have the freedom to do that.
Or he wants to do this before he does.
And I can pay for that.
All of those things.
Or there's an experimental treatment.
We're going to go all in.
We're going to try this.
All of those things hit me.
(33:16):
And so taking that and making it my purpose gave me that purpose to get up in the morning.
I'm going to keep driving forward.
I'm going to keep going.
I'm going to keep pushing.
Because I want to help other people in that situation.
I know what that feels like.
And I just want to be able to help people to push forward and to turn that pain around
(33:38):
a little bit.
Just having that freedom to breathe out and go, right, all I have to focus on is that.
All of that other stuff will take care of itself.
Are there mostly women who come to Sarah Hurley Academy?
How do people find out about Sarah Hurley Academy?
So it is mostly women.
(34:00):
And I think that's partly because of my story and partly because generally what we see is,
and all the research backs this up, is that being widowed affects men and women differently.
So men, it's a much more emotional thing of they feel lonely and they're learning to all
these things for themselves.
And for women, obviously we have the emotional thing, but we have all these practical things
(34:22):
as well.
And if the husband's been the breadwinner, especially if you've been raising a family
and things like that, you suddenly have all these other concerns.
And there's things like if the house is in his name or the mortgage is in his name and
all of those kinds of things that maybe you haven't really been switched on to until someone
(34:43):
dies.
As they say, we all have a plan until someone gets punched in the face.
And it's like being punched in the face repeatedly until you kind of go, oh my gosh, I need to
do these things.
Yeah, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you.
My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and luckily we caught it early and her prognosis
(35:07):
is excellent.
It's still a slog, right?
It's still a tremendous amount to go through and everything.
And I kind of expected a little bit of time where there was going to be a pity party and
a woe is me and everything, but she found out and maybe an hour she was sad and then
the rest was, you know what, the only way is through and we're just going to get on
(35:33):
this horse and we're going to ride it until we're done.
And so I have a lot of respect for you for everything that you've been through and that
drive to keep going.
So kudos to you on that.
I wanted to ask about the very soon release, I'm sure you're very excited about your first
business book.
(35:54):
So can you give us a little sneak peek into what readers can expect and like the core
message that you're trying to share out there?
So this is all focused on lessons I've learned during business and these are not like, this
is how you do a balance sheet.
It's really practical hands on lessons of things I've learned, things to be aware of.
(36:17):
The stuff people don't tell you is everything that I've tried to put in this book and I've
already actually got like my leftover notes for book two.
So yeah, and it's called, what's your little madam?
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, nice.
Love it.
Love it.
Well, we're going to have Sarah, I don't know if you're aware of this, you or your team,
(36:38):
whoever reached out to us has committed you to write a blog post and so we're going to
try to get a blog post, maybe one of those lessons, give people a taste of what they
may find when they pick up the book.
I want to finish on a lighter note.
You mentioned to us that you trained to be a lawyer and you had dreams of joining MI5
for those of you who are not in the UK.
(37:01):
That's the equivalent of, that's the equivalent.
Is that the FBI or the CIA?
I should probably know that.
I think it's, is MI5 the CIA or the FBI's equivalent?
I think it's FBI.
I don't know.
Is it FBI?
Yeah, I think it's FBI.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, I probably should have known that before I asked the question, but I didn't.
But you pivoted just a week into the job.
(37:21):
So what's the story behind that abroad career change?
So I really love law and I'm so interested in it and I loved the study of law and I had
all these high hopes.
I'd watched all these kind of drama series.
There's one British drama series called Spooks, which if you watch it, it's amazing.
(37:41):
It's from the early 2000s.
But it's such a kind of exciting kind of drama and I had these visions of me racing through
London and finding dead drops and stuff.
And then when I started doing, so you start off kind of in chambers looking at cases.
And the first thing I realized was cases are allocated kind of first come first serve.
(38:04):
And I have a very strong sense of justice.
And I thought there's absolutely no way that I could defend someone if I knew they were
guilty.
So straight away, I started thinking maybe this isn't for me.
I need to find a way to pivot into MI5 really quickly.
So I started applying for kind of admin jobs there.
And I got through like the first round of questions.
(38:26):
And then they start telling you about how you have to sign the National Secrets Act
and all of these kind of things.
And I thought to myself, you need to be realistic here, right?
Because it's a massive commitment.
It's a life changing commitment.
I'm a little bit chatty, especially if I've had a vodka or two.
I don't really drink anymore.
But if I've had a vodka or two, I'm definitely really chatty.
(38:47):
And I still there are going to be national secrets all over London.
And I just cannot do this because I am a liability in this position.
So effectively, you were trying to keep yourself out of prison.
That's what I'm hearing.
And alive would be really good.
And also I feel like I'm protecting my country just by not doing it.
So I'm going to carry on.
I love it.
(39:08):
Create products.
That's safe.
It's a safe area for me.
My assumption was you didn't like the wig.
I mean, I don't know if they still have to do it, but you didn't like the wig that you'd
have to wear if you went to court.
Is that a thing?
Do they still have to wear wigs?
You do have to wear wigs.
But I liked it.
I thought it looked really cool.
I was really excited about the wig.
I was really excited about what the process is.
(39:29):
But it was all the other bits I hadn't really considered.
So as soon as the reality started kicking in, I was like, oh, okay, maybe not for me.
That's funny.
Well, you know what?
For those of you who are going to potentially have the opportunity to do business with Sarah,
you know how to potentially get the best deal possible.
A couple of options.
And you're going to get a more pliant partner on the other side.
(39:52):
Sarah, it's been a great pleasure.
We'd love to have you back when the book is out and talk about it.
And we're delighted to have you.
Incredibly, the Braving Business Podcast, we're a top 1% global podcast of popularity,
not just in business, but for all podcasts.
And about a third of our listenership is overseas and a fair bit of it is in the UK.
So we're really grateful to you and your team for reaching out to us and for choosing to
(40:16):
be with us today.
And thank you to all of you listening to us across the pond.
And for sure, you're a shining example of what the Braving Business Podcast is all about.
Someone that, A, pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps.
Second, someone that refused to be cowed by a whole range of challenges, showed resilience
(40:36):
every step of the way from go, showed ingenuity, cares about other people.
You are what this podcast is about.
And I'm truly, truly grateful for you for spending time with us today.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And that's a wrap, folks.
Like what you heard, want to support the show?
Please follow our page on LinkedIn and Facebook, visit us on YouTube, and please like and rate
(40:59):
us on all of your favorite podcast streaming services.
You can also see exclusive content, subscribe for free to our weekly blog, support our sponsors,
and soon buy our merchandise at www.bravingbusiness.com.
Thanks for being a part of our production and we'll see you next time on the Braving
Business Podcast.
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