Jumping Jack Theater with Stephen Santa & Claire Carbone

Episode Transcript
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Nicole Zimmerer (00:17):
Welcome to Break a Leg! A podcast that
explores the relationshipbetween disability and the arts.
I'm your host, Nicole Zimmerer,and on today's episode our guest
is Stephen Santa. Stephen Santais the co-founder and artistic
director of Jumping JackTheater, a children's theatre
company based in Pittsburgh,Pennsylvania that creates
original sensory theatreproductions for audiences with

(00:40):
developmental disabilities andsensory sensitivities. Stephen,
thank you so much for beinghere.

Stephen Santa (00:45):
Hi, Nicole, thank you so much for having me! I'm
so thrilled that your podcastexists, first of all, and
secondly, I'm just so happy tobe here to speak with you.

Oh, thank you so much! We're happy you're here
as well. So Stephen, you're hereto talk to us about Jumping Jack
Theater. Can you explain whatthat is and what you guys do and
how you kind of got started?

Sure. Yeah. So Jumping Jack Theater is a
children's theatre company. Andwe're based in Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania. And we createoriginal sensory theatre
productions for audiences withdevelopmental disabilities and
sensory sensitivities. Ourtheater serves children from
ages six to twenty-one,essentially. Jumping Jack was

(01:29):
created in 2016. And it was cofounded with a dear friend of
mine, her name is RebeccaCovert, and we were at one of
our favorite coffee shops inPittsburgh, it's called Big Dog.
I don't know if you've ever beenthere? It's on the south side.
It's so fun because you canbring your, your dog inside and
they can chill with you whileyou're doing your work on your
computer. So we were sitting atBig Dog and Rebecca is an

(01:54):
artist, a teaching artist, acabaret singer, an all around
like incredible performer, artsadvocate. She also happens to
have an autistic son, and hasdone a lot of work in the
autistic community, particularlyin the theatre world, with
helping companies that werebroaching the idea of

(02:14):
sensory-friendly performancesand how they could adapt their
performances to make themsensory-friendly, or have like a
sensory-friendly event orsomething like that. And we were
talking and she was kind oflamenting how she didn't really
feel like there was acomfortable, safe space where
she could expose her son to art,and to theatre in particular.

Yeah.

And we kind of had this lightbulb-moment that
"Well, if there isn't anythinglike that out there, why don't
we create it?" And Jumping Jackwas born from that conversation.
Jumping Jack is named afterRebecca's son. It's kind of a
funny story, again, at Big Dog afew weeks later, starting the

(03:01):
process of coming up with ourmission statement and coming up
with a name. And you know, wesaid, "Well, we're doing this
for Jack." And I said toRebecca, "What does Jack love to
do?" "Well, right now he'sreally into jumping on his
trampoline." Again, anotherlightbulb-moment, Jumping Jack
Theater. So...

Yeah.

We just fell in love with the name because it's
playful, it's exciting, but italso keeps us grounded, too,
remembering why we founded thecompany, and why we were trying
to create unique experiences forkids like Jack. So I just love
the name. And um, it's justevery, every time I talk about

(03:41):
it, I just love telling peoplethat story because it's just
it's just so unique and specialto us.

Yeah, it also like invokes the idea of action.
Because, I mean personally Idon't jump a lot, obviously.

[Laughs]

But you know, it. [Laughs.] It also like, it
reminds me of the song "JumpingJack Flash" and it just--

Yeah.

--like, it's active. It's, it's a good, it's
a good time. It's a good song.
So.

For sure.

Yeah, yeah. Um, can you tell me like what, what
is it like, what are theparticulars? What do you guys
do?

So we kind of have two primary focuses, we
have an educational side, and wehave a production side, but they
kind of meet in the middle. Soour focus is to create
sensory-enriched experiences.
And we kind of changed thelanguage to "sensory theatre,"
as opposed to "sensory-friendlytheatre," because that's

(04:36):
different than what we'recreating. Because we're creating
something from the ground upthat is made and crafted and
cultivated directly for thatpopulation, as opposed to when
you go to like asensory-friendly event where
they're taking material that'salready been created and done,

(04:56):
and they're just adapting thatmaterial. Like, you know, if you
go to the Lion King on Broadway,they may have a sensory-friendly
performance where they're justtaking the show as it is and
making it more sensory-friendlyand less stimulating.

Mm-hm.

But what we're doing is creating the
experiences from the ground up.
So it all starts in theclassroom. We have classroom
residencies in autistic supportclassrooms, learning support
classrooms, life skillsclassrooms, where we can send in
our teaching artists who alsohappened to be our performers in
our shows. And they get to spendquality time in the classroom

(05:35):
with the students. And we canalmost workshop the ideas for
the show the themes for theshow. And then once we get a
little deeper, we can workshopactual sensory moments that are
going to be in the show. Andhaving that direct feedback and
direct response from ouraudience is the key to how we

(05:56):
craft and create our shows. Sothen we are able to take that
response and the feedback backto the creative team into the
rehearsal room, to really, youknow, hope to make our shows as
accessible as possible, which weall know isn't possible to make
something a hundred percentaccessible to everyone. But you

(06:16):
know, we're trying to make asmany accommodations and creative
choices to really make our showsas sensory-enriched and
accessible, so everyone can findan avenue in to the story, and
feel like it's being told justfor them.

Yeah, yeah.
Like you really are tailoring toyour audience, which a lot of
theatre doesn't do. They're justlike, "We made this. We hope you
like it, here you go." But youare really listening to your
audience and trying to figureout how to include them in a
space that often doesn't, ordoesn't know how to include them
properly with their needs. So itseems like a really fantastic

(07:00):
idea. Stephen, I'm so excited totalk about the trailer. But
first, let's talk about you. Whois Stephen Santa? Why are you
doing this? What led you here? Iwant to the whole story, um,
because I like, I'm nosy and Ilike to hear people's
backgrounds and backstories andwhat makes them tick. So.

So I kind of class myself as a theatre
director, artistic director,arts educator and arts advocate.
You know, we all, when we're inthe arts world, we wear a lot of
hats.

Yeah.

But my two passions in life are working
with kids, particularly kidswith disabilities, and theatre.
I got the theatre bug very earlyon, around age eight. Started in
the performance world first,primarily doing musical theatre
as a child growing up in thecommunity theatre world, moving

(07:56):
into professional theatre as achild, had some really exciting,
memorable opportunities, workedwith amazing people. Studied
musical theatre, and aftercoming out of school, I kind of
transitioned into directing andfelt like that was where I
needed to be. And I've spent thelast, oh going on 15 years,

(08:17):
freelance directing all over thecountry, before founding Jumping
Jack Theater in 2016 andbecoming the artistic director.
But on the other side of that,while I was pursuing all of
these theatre things and, andworking on shows, I was also
working with kids withdisabilities. For the last-- I

(08:38):
just retired! It was 18 summers,I worked with this incredible
camp for kids with disabilitiescalled Camp AIM. It's through
the Greater Pittsburgh YMCA. AndI started there at the age of 15
as a counselor, and kind ofworked my way up to becoming the
music director where I had aclassroom where the campers

(09:02):
would come for music therapy,dramatic play... I facilitated a
talent show every year where thekids got to rehearse their
talents and put on a reallytremendous show that was themed
every year. And spent 18 yearsthere every summer for six
weeks, and I always say thatthose six weeks at Camp AIM were

(09:26):
the best six weeks of my year.
It was when I looked forward toevery year, and I not only have
developed lifelong relationshipswith counselors and staff but
also with campers there, andtheir families, who I will, you
know, be a part of their livesforever. So it was really an
incredible experience for me. Sowhen Jumping Jack kind of rolled

(09:48):
around, it was almost like "Whywasn't I doing this sooner? Why
wasn't I taking my two passionsof working with kids with
disabilities and theatre andmerging them?" So when we
broached the idea that, it waslike all of the, all of the math
was there, I just didn't figureout the equation in time.

Yeah.

But I'm so thankful that I did. And here we
are. And since 2016, we've puton three amazing performances,
done so much community outreach,worked in many classrooms with
so many unique, creative, funstudents. And just so excited to
see what the future will willbring for us.

Yeah, the word that comes to mind for me is
like, kismet, or fate. You know,it's like, "Oh, obviously, this
is what you were supposed todo." Yeah.

Absolutely.
Hundred percent.

Yeah, no, I love those moments where it's
just like, "Aha!" and you'relike, "Maybe the universe is
listening to me! Or maybethere's something out there
that... maybe fate and destinyare real." And I'm just... you
know, but I love those moments.

Yeah. And it probably came at the right time,
too. Maybe I wasn't ready beforethen. So you know, timing is
everything. I'm a firm believerin that, that everything happens
at the right time when it'ssupposed to, and it's part of
your path. And maybe that wasthat was the time, sitting at
Big Dog for that kismit tohappen.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I will say, uh, Big Dog is
getting great, great advertisingin this episode. [Laughs]

They could be a sponsor.

They should! They should! They should be
like, "Thank you so much!"

Yeah.

But yeah. Okay.
So you mentioned you've donethree shows. And I'm really
interested in hearing like, whatdid you start with, and where
are you now?

So our first show was called The Light Princess.
And it was based off of aScottish folklore fairytale that
we adapted. The themes of TheLight Princess just kind of made
sense with the themes that wewere trying to put across, and
we felt that were wereimportant; which are the themes

(11:58):
of what makes you special,everyone has something that
makes them special that needs tobe celebrated. And The Light
Princess has that. So if youdon't know The Light-- the story
of The Light Princess, I'll tellyou very quick. There's a
princess who's born withoutgravity. She literally floats,
and figuratively floats abovethe world, and is very

(12:19):
disconnected from the worldbecause she's always in the air.
And her parents, the king andthe queen, tie ribbons to her to
bring her back down to earth,again literally and
figuratively, right. And throughher journey, she and her parents
discover that what makes herspecial, which is what makes her

(12:41):
different, is that she has nogravity, is her superpower. And
that is-- should be celebrated.
And it's not, shouldn't besomething that should be held
down or tied down by theseribbons, and they're able to
take those ribbons off and lether soar. And again, a beautiful
metaphor for autism. It was agreat avenue for parents to see
themselves in the characters,also for our kids in the

(13:05):
audience to see themselves inthe characters in the show. And
it just felt like the rightstarting-off point for us. So
that show was co-produced withthe Pittsburgh Cultural Trust.
And it had one weekend ofperformances. And we performed
it in downtown Pittsburgh, andwe had the audience limit of 60

(13:26):
people. Which was a little bitbig for what our vision was, but
because we were co-producing itwith the Cultural Trust, they
had some expectations ofaudience size. So it was a give
and take.

Mm-hm.

It sold out, uh, in days, which was really
exciting for us because then itkind of gave us the feeling that
"Oh, there's a need for this.
There's an audience out therethat wants this sort of work.
And they want to come to it."

Yeah.

Something we did discover, though, was that the
shows did sell out, but thenwhen it came to the actual
shows, and the day of the showcame, we would be at like 50%
capacity or 60%, and there was alot of empty seats. And that was
a huge learning moment for us asa company. Something that we
really hadn't really thoughtabout at that point, since we

(14:19):
were so new, was that there area lot of roadblocks and
challenges for our audience toeven get to the theater.

Mm-hm.

To be able to physically come to a show,
whatever's going on that day,you know, there could be health
things going on, there could betriggers that have been going
on, the mood that they're inthat day. So that was an
eye-opening thing for us, whichkind of led us to our second
show which became a touring showthat we could bring to--

Oh, the trailer!

Not yet!

Not yet?

But that is in the line!

Okay!

But at all, but it all makes sense in the, in
the history and in the timeline.
So, our second show was calledCityscape, which we built to
tour to schools, to communityevents, to organizations. And
that was built for a smalleraudience of about 25 audience
members at a time. So again,we're going from 60 to 25, we're

(15:14):
getting closer to what ourmission was going to be. And
Cityscape was an amazing show.
It was two characters. Onecharacter was a young girl who
was nonverbal. And the show wasabout her navigating the city.
There was a pigeon puppet thatcame into her window, and she
was playing with her favoritetoys, and the pigeon comes in

(15:36):
and snatches one of her favoritetoys and takes it out the window
and flies away. And the show wasour main character, her name was
MC, going out and having tonavigate the city to find her
favorite toy again. And sincethe show was being built to
travel to schools, primarily, wewanted to incorporate a lot of

(15:58):
life skills that the studentsmay already be learning in their
classroom. So that's why thecity theme and the navigation
themes made sense because wecould work on how to read a map,
we worked on how you pay for busfare to take the bus, public
transportation. Crossing thestreet on a sidewalk, safely on
a crosswalk, what does that looklike? And we built in all of

(16:19):
these life skills into the show,so it could really mirror the
things they were learning intheir classrooms. Another thing
that we added to that show wasthe idea of sound and sound
effects and how those affect ouraudiences, particularly those
with sensory sensitivities.
Sound effects, particularly in ashow that's about the city, and

(16:41):
the city has so many loud thingsyou could encounter; a
construction site, an ambulancezooming by... How do we create
those cityscapes and thosesoundscapes without triggering
any of our audience members? Sowe came up with the idea of
having the audience membersactually record the sound

(17:04):
effects that are going to beused in the show at the very
beginning. So the actors wouldcome out on stage, they would
talk about the cityscapes thatwe were going to visit. For
instance, we were going to visita construction site, what could
those sounds be that you wouldhear? You would hear the crane,
you'd hear the bulldozer dumpingthe dirt. And then we would

(17:25):
actually record those soundeffects of the audience creating
those sounds, and then have theability to incorporate them into
the play they're about to see.
So it helped us in a few ways.
It helped us by giving them asense of ownership in the show,
immersing them into thestorytelling even further, but

(17:47):
also eliminating the sense ofsurprise, because all the sounds
that they're going to hear inthe show they created. So they
know they're coming. They'rewaiting for them. And it
eliminates anything that couldpossibly be triggering, because
they know exactly what's coming.

Yes.

Yeah. And it worked so well for us that it
will be something that we willalways go back to and become
kind of like a calling card forour larger shows, to have the
audience create the soundeffects because it was so
successful.

Yeah, I think that's like a genius move,
because it's also comforting tothem when they are out in the
real world, um, and they do comeacross the construction zone, or
just the loud sounds of everydaylife. And they're like, "Oh, but
I know that sound because I madethat sound." And it's like it's
a double layer of comfort forthem, I would think.

Exactly. And you know, we even had-- for that
show, we not only took it toschools, but we also sat it down
with the Cultural Trust for aweekend. And we had schools
actually bring kids to the cityto see the show. And they
actually got to, immediatelyafter they saw the show, go out

(19:04):
and practice the themes andpractice the elements they just
saw in the show. So to me thatwas so amazing that they got to
come to the show and learn howto use a crosswalk and then go
out into the city and directlypractice that, which was just--
feel so empowering and soamazing.

Yeah.

Another way that we immersed our audiences, in
both The Light Princess andCityscape, is we made fidget
keychains that every audiencemember received when they walked
in. And on the keychains werestorytelling elements that they
used to again immerse them inthe show and make them feel like

(19:44):
they're really part of it. Forinstance, in The Light Princess
there's a moment where theprincess dives into a lake and
explores the seaweed and thefish in the lake. And on the
sensory keychain, fidgetkeychain, there was a piece of
blue gel that they held up totheir eyes, and they looked
through it. So it felt like theywere underwater. And they were

(20:08):
seeing through The LightPrincess' eyes what it would
look like to be underwater. Andthat idea came directly from the
classroom. We did a exercise inthe classroom, we just put out a
bunch of different pieces ofpaper, different textures,
sandpaper, craft paper, tissuepaper, things they could, they
could look through, and astudent picked it up, a piece of

(20:31):
red cellophane and lookedthrough it and said, "This looks
hot, it looks hot!" And we said,"Wow, they just created a
sensory moment for themselves."And we figured out that we could
take that idea and put itdirectly into the show. So
that's just a great example of adiscovery that was made in the
classroom with the students thatbecame such an important

(20:54):
immersive storytelling elementin the show, and just shows how
important taking the time for usto research and work directly
with the kiddos, and howvaluable their input and how
amazing those little discoveriescan be to really make our shows
as immersive and accessible aspossible.

Yeah, and I think it adds another layer to
it. Because I know quite a feworganizations that are geared
towards the disabled community.
They, you know, create content,for lack of a better term, for
the disabled community, but theydon't often involve the disabled
community in that contentcreation. And I think the fact

(21:35):
that you do is like, I mean, Ithink that's great. I mean, I, I
also am very sad that the bar ison the floor, but I'm grateful
that you are doing it.

I mean, that was always very important to us from
the very beginning, you know,knowing that our co-founders and
our staff-- we have a, we haveanother wonderful person on
staff named Claire, who is justremarkable, but we are all
neurotypical. And it wasimportant that if we're creating
this work, we have to beinvolving the people that it's

(22:10):
for. That was, you know, to usthat that's obviously a
no-brainer?

Yeah.

And we have much more work to do in that realm as
well. We want to get to thepoint where we could have, you
know, people with disabilitiescreating the scores for our
shows, being more involved inthe script writing. Now, we have
had some autistic adults workingon our scripts with us and
giving us feedback on ourscripts, but we want to be able

(22:35):
to immerse them more in ourcreative process, even get get
them acting in our shows. We'rejust not at that point yet, but
you know, that is definitely inour timeline.

Yeah.

To get the community even actively involved
as much as we can.

Is, is Jack involved at all?

Jack has been a great audience member for us.

Okay, good.

He gives really good feedback. And he's the kind
of kid where, if he's not likingit, he's gonna get up and he's
gonna be on to the next thing.
So he has, he has really givenus good feedback. He hasn't seen
our newest show yet, but we'rereally excited for him to be
able to see "Starshine!" whichis our--

Yes.

Our show that we currently have touring, which is
the trailer show!

The trailer show! Um, can we, can we talk
about Starshine? Like, I heardabout this show, and I was
immediately like, "Wow, that'snothing I've ever, like, heard
or seen before." So I would loveto talk about that for a little
bit. And I, and I understandthat COVID, uh... [Sigh] I feel
like we talk about the pandemica lot on this show. But to be

(23:38):
fair, like, it's, it's affectedeverything, um, including, well
obviously the arts, but um--

Yeah.

Can you talk about Starshine and like its
journey from like where you guysstarted to what it is today?

Yeah. So after we toured Cityscape for about two
years, we decided that we wantedto create something for a
smaller audience. We had seenthat we started with 60 audience
members, we were down to 25. Howcan we make that an even more
intimate experience? So wedecided that we were going to

(24:14):
revamp The Light Princess. Andwe were going to do it inside of
an inflatable tent, and do itfor four audience members and
their caregivers or parents at atime. And we were weeks away
from rehearsals starting. Weactually received a grant
through California University ofPennsylvania to work with their

(24:34):
theatre students to create thisshow. We were weeks away, and
that's when the pandemic hit.
So... we obviously couldn'tcreate that experience of The
Light Princess 2.0, which wewere calling it, and had to make
a shift. And this shift startedwhen we were on a road trip from

(24:55):
Tennessee-- we took Cityscape toa theatre conference where we
were able to perform it. And onthe way home, we were talking
about what's next for us. And wehad said, we really want to do
something for a small audience,maybe even something for one
audience member at a time. Whatwould that look like? How is
that financially feasible? Is itfinancially feasible? And when

(25:18):
COVID hit we took some time toevaluate, and we decided that we
wanted to create something forone child at a time. So COVID
really propelled us in thatdirection, because we thought,
"Well, this is a way we cancontinue to serve our audience,"

(25:38):
because we can eliminate so manyCOVID issues, if we're only
having one audience member atour show at a time. They don't
have to worry about being aroundanyone else. We can sanitize and
clean everything in betweenshows, and we can really make it
as safe as possible. And thengoing back to The Light

(25:59):
Princess, we had learned that itwas a challenge to even get our
audience to the theater. How canwe eliminate those roadblocks as
well, of having the audiencecome to us? Why don't we come to
them? And that's when we decidedthat we were going to create a
show for one audience member ata time inside of a mobile

(26:20):
storytelling trailer, which wecan literally roll up to the
audience member's front door,right in their driveway, and
they can come out, have thissensory-friendly,
sensory-enriched, uniqueexperience, and then go back
into the comfort of their home.

(26:41):
And I have to say that, this hasbeen a revolutionary moment for
us, and is propelling us intothis new world of
sensory-enriched theatre. So webought this trailer, it's small,
it's ten by five, and it hooksonto the back of an SUV or

(27:04):
truck, and t, e door comes down.
And there's a whole entire worldcreated inside of this trailer.
And the audience member comesin, has this 25, 30 minute
sensory-enriched experience, andthen goes back into their house.

Wow. I mean-- Wow! So the show is called
"Starshine!" What is the showabout?

So Starshine is about becoming a "star keeper."
There's one actor in the show aswell, so it's one actor, one
audience member and up to twocaregivers. So there's four
people in this trailer at onetime. And they're coming under
the idea that they are a recruitto the star keeper training

(27:47):
program. And by the time they'redone, they're going to become a
star keeper. What is the starkeeper? A star keeper is a
person who takes care of thestars; they dust them, they keep
them shining as bright as theycan. And through their training,
they learn that stars have shinein them. And shine is what makes

(28:07):
us all special and unique. Everystar is special and unique.
Stars have shine in them, but wealso have shine in us. So we're
really pushing this theme thatit's important to help other
people and always help those whoneed it, and that everyone has
something unique about them. Andin the show, there's a star

(28:29):
that's plucked out of the skyand it's losing its, its shine,
it's losing its brightness. Andwe have to learn as a group that
if we take a little bit of ourshine, and give it to this star,
it'll be able to shine brightagain. So it's about empathy,
it's about helping those whoneed it, it's about compassion,

(28:50):
and it's about celebrating whatmakes us all unique and special.

So what does the audience member do
throughout the show toparticipate in the star keeping
in the, in the show?

There's so much going on. And what's so
wonderful about the show isthat, because it's for one
person, it's so flexible thatthey can do as little of it as
they want or as much as theywant based on their comfort
level. For instance, the showstarts on a trampoline, which is
called our "launch pad." And wehave to launch ourselves into
the sky, into the stars, wherewe can do our work. So there's a

(29:27):
very active moment at thebeginning with us jumping on
this trampoline. And then wetransition into the trailer
where we're sitting on thesurface of a star. And that's
where all of our actions happen.
They get to dust a star with avery special duster and collect
the star dust in a jar, which isactually just iron filings which
we take a magnet and make theiron filings dance and move

(29:49):
around in the jar. They createtheir own constellation using a
black light. There is a momentwhere they get to see what a
cloud smells like. Who knew thata cloud smells, right? But we
had a little jar that we hadcollected a piece of a cloud and
they get to smell it. There's aspace garden where they get to
plant "space fluff." And theyactually get to taste it after

(30:14):
they've planted it. So we'rereally having these immersive,
super fun, cooperativeexperiences that are for all of
your senses. They get to see,they get to taste, they get to
touch, they get to hear. It's a,it's a multi-sensory,
collaborative, super funexperience for not just our

(30:35):
audience members, but ourpassengers, their family members
as well.

Yeah, it's a highly individualized show, so
how do you individualize eachshow? For every star keeper, or
every recruit, as you would say?

Yes, they are recruits. At the very end, they
become our star keeper! That's agreat question. So, because it
is for one audience member at atime, we have this ultimate
flexibility. So a week beforetheir scheduled performance, we
send them a social story, wesend them an activity guide. But
they also get what's called ouraudience survey. It takes about

(31:16):
five minutes, and it hasquestions for them to fill out
about their comfortability levelwith all of our sensory
elements, asking them if theyhave any pets, what are their
pets names? What are theirhobbies? What are their favorite
TV shows, and then we're able totake all of their answers from
their survey and incorporate itinto the show. For instance,

(31:38):
there's a moment where we haveto name a star in the sky. And
the actor knows all of theseinteresting things about the
audience members, for instancetheir dog's name, so then we can
name the star after their pet.
And you see their face light up,"I have a dog with that same
name!" So it's just that magicalmoment that just connects them,

(31:59):
because we've made thisconnection that they didn't even
realize.

Yeah.

But also the survey gives us the ability to
gauge their comfortability withall of our sensory moments. So
we talk about smelling the cloudand eating the space fluff. And
they can give us a range fromone to five, how comfortable
they are with those elements. Soif someone says they're at a
"one" for tasting anything inthe show, then we have the

(32:27):
ability as the actors to justskip that moment in the show, or
adapt it to make it ascomfortable and accessible as
possible for that audiencemember. And this has been huge
for us to be able to have thatamount of flexibility in a show
is really kind of unheard of.
And for us to be able to know somuch about that audience member
and use that as a way to reallyearn their trust in a very short

(32:52):
amount of time, has just been soinvigorating and exciting to
explore the idea of all of that.

Stephen, when you're performing Starshine, and
I say "you," are you aperformer? That's a good
question to ask, before we getinto anything else. But I really
want to know.

Yes, so I do perform the show. There's--
right now we have three actorsthat are rotating the show, it
was very important to us withthis show to make sure that our
actors, since it is soimmersive, and you're right
there with the kid, that we werehiring actors that have

(33:39):
experience working with kidswith disabilities. So these
actors that are in the show arehighly experienced actors,
teaching artists, that haveworked with us since the very
beginning. Because this isn'tsomething you would just want to
throw a actor into who has noexperience working with this
population.

Mm-hm.

There's so much improv involved, because so many
things can happen based onwhat's going on in the show,
that you need someone who cannavigate anything that's thrown
to you or at you, literally orfiguratively, by an audience
member. So I'm so grateful forthe actors that we have right
now. And I'm looking to actuallystep away from the acting

(34:22):
element, because there's so muchplanning involved with
scheduling shows and bookingshows and traveling. So I'm
looking to more focus on justworking on the booking of the
shows and the scheduling.

Yeah.

And having our two, our two really skilled
performers take over the reinsthere. But yes, the show was
built with myself and mycolleague, Claire.

So we've talked about these three shows that are
interactive in different ways.
Starshine is very task-based,because we have a recruit in
training to be a star keeper.
How does this differ from theother interactive elements? And
how are these elements developedfor the show?

That's a great question. So before, in our
first two shows, there still wasa disconnect from the audience
and the actors, you know, afourth wall, if you will, to a
degree. Our audience memberswere interacting by creating the
sounds, and they were using ourfidget keychains throughout the

(35:26):
show to enhance the sensorymoments. And then we get to
Starshine, where it's just,they're totally immersed, they
are part of the story, they arethe story, it's centered around
them. And when we first starteddeveloping Starshine, it was
very task-based. And as westarted workshopping it and

(35:46):
working through it, we kind ofpulled back on that a little
bit, because we didn't want tocreate any moment that would set
up an audience member to fail.
We didn't want that to be anexperience that they could have,
that they have this feeling ofthey weren't able to complete a
task, or it didn't get completedthe way-- the expectations of
what we thought they were goingto complete it. So there are

(36:08):
still task elements in it. Buteverything has been highly
researched and highlyworkshopped so that however it
is completed by that particularrecruit, can be successful. And
we really wanted to focus moreon creating sensory experiences
as opposed to tasks. So they dothese kinds of tasks at the

(36:34):
beginning. And then it kind oftransitions into more of them
just interacting with the worldand interacting with different
sensory elements and sensoryprops that we give them and the
tasks kind of go away. And thenwe returned to the tasks at the
end where they help the star toshine bright again. So it's
really taking everything welearned from the first two shows

(36:59):
and just amping it up to athousand.

Right, right, turning it up to eleven.

To eleven, baby.
Yeah.

As they would say.

But not too loud! But not too loud.

Yeah.

Because that would be too loud for a lot of
our kiddos. [Laughs]

Not too loud! Yeah, yeah. I just, I just think
that's great. And that's totallydifferent than any other
children's theatre or theatrefor neurodivergent audience
members that I've seen before,because usually, it's fairly
task-based, like even in thelife skills classroom, it's
really much like, "Do this, andthen this, and then this..." And

(37:36):
just to have, just for theaudience members to have a space
where they don't have to dotasks... For me, um, I would
think it would be like, like abreath of fresh air or like a
relief, because you know, somebrains just don't work like
that.

Yeah. And that's something that we learned pretty
quickly. Because, again, it'sjust ingrained in us that like,
that is how we do stuff, right?
There's tasks, and that's how wetell a story, and that's how we
get through that. And then wehad to really make a mind shift
away from that and, and make thedecision that it's going to be
less about that and more justabout having an experience.

Yeah.

And, and living in this world. And just really
running with that idea. And it,but it definitely was a mind
shift for us.

So Stephen, what has been the response from
parents? Because while I'm not aparent myself, I do know a lot
of parents of disabled children.
And I would think it would bevery moving for them to see a
piece of art or somethingspecifically tailored for their
children, given the fact that wedon't often see that in society

(38:45):
these days.

Absolutely.

What have been some of the responses that
you've gotten from thisexperience?

I mean, part of why we also created Jumping Jack
was not just for the kids, butfor the parents as well.
Because, again, it goes back toRebecca and her saying, "I don't
feel comfortable taking Jackanywhere. We've gone to the
movies, we've gone to thetheatre, and it hasn't gone
well," you know, "People arestaring at us, people are making
comments," you know, "Why is hemaking those noises?" You know.

(39:15):
So it has been empowering forthese parents and eye opening
for them to have a safe spacefor themselves, for their child
where there's going to be zerojudgment. They can experience
the show any way they want, aslong as they're being safe, as

(39:35):
long as they're comfortable.
There's no right or wrong, it istheir show, it's for them. And
whatever happens happens andit's a unique experience for
them. So the parents have beenreally blown away by that. And,
you know, there has been showswhere audience members have not
been able to go into thetrailer. Sometimes they're just
not comfortable going inside.

(39:58):
They look at it and it's just alittle too intimidating. But we
have a plan for that. So we'reable to bring all of the sensory
experiences outside of thetrailer, and we just sit right
outside on the ramp, and do theshow. And again, no right or
wrong, that is that show forthat child; it's not a fail,
it's not a win, it is theirshow. And it really puts things

(40:19):
into perspective, because we'llhave parents say things like,
"You asked our child to do this,and they verbally responded to
you. That's something we've beenworking on in therapy for a
year. And the fact that it justhappened so naturally, with a
complete stranger, is such ahuge step for us as a parent, in

(40:41):
the growth of our child." And Ithink most parents would take
that for granted, right, of aneurotypical child, of that
small of an interactionhappening. But to that parent,
seeing it happen in this moment,in a creative environment, is a
huge step for that child, andthat child's development. So the

(41:04):
fact that we're able to providethat has just been really
grounding for us as well.

Yeah, it's, it's a big, it's a big moment
for those kids. And, like, howdo you feel, knowing that you
are involved in like a person'sbig moment? How does that put
things in perspective for you?

It's unbelievable, because-- and we
were actually talking about thislast night, because we had a
show, and it was like, 45minutes away, and you know,
we're all artists and we haveother jobs. And, you know, we're
coming home from our, from ourday job, and then rushing out
with this trailer and driving 45minutes and setting up this show

(41:44):
and rushing, rushing, rushing.
And then, you know, the kidsjust walk out and we see their
faces, and we have thisbeautiful experience with them.
And it just puts everything intoperspective for us. That,
regardless of all the rush andall of the planning and
everything that we put intothis, it's-- it's for them. And
when we get to just do the showand have that experience--

Yeah!

--it's so magical. It's so empowering for
everyone involved. And it's justa magical theatre moment that we
have, and I don't want to getlike all artsy-fartsy and
sentimental but uh, it's just sospecial. It really is. It's,
it's hard to describe. But it'sjust such a special moment when

(42:29):
we make those connections.

Yeah. So, you just had a show last night, so
you're still doing Starshine. Iwas gonna ask if COVID has
affected anything, but COVIDliterally led to the birth of
this idea. So I'm guessingyou've worked out all the kinks,
obviously. But you're stilldoing the show?

Yeah, we are.
What's nice about it is that thetrailer's never closed. So
there's always fresh air comingin. We're able to sanitize
everything in between shows. Andthe show was built with COVID in
mind, like there's no carpetingor anything that can't be
cleaned. Like our seats areplastic cubes that light up, and
vinyl rocker chairs. Soeverything has been crafted and

(43:15):
custom made by the students atCal U, with knowing that
everything has to be able to becleaned very quickly, because we
do multiple shows in a day. Sothat has all been part of the
creative process of the show, ishow do we create something
that's COVID safe. And justlike, in general, that's

(43:35):
something that we should bedoing all of the time when we're
working with, with children, andthey're touching things,
regardless of a pandemic, weshould be trying to keep
everyone healthy all of the timeand just keep everyone safe. And
that's part of that, you know.

Right. Right.
Cool. So what does a busy dayfor you look like with
Starshine?

Well, we have been lucky to be able to partner
with some local organizations;the Andy Warhol Museum, the
Carnegie Science Center, thePittsburgh Cultural Trust, where
we can do six shows in one day.
That's kind of our cap, that wefeel, for the actors. That, that
is a busy day. So a busy day forus can look like that, six
shows. And then it can also looklike one show a night, pulling

(44:20):
up to a family's house and doingone show and maybe having two or
three of those during a week.
Every week and every day andevery show is, is different for
us.

Yeah, you mentioned that you have you
know, day jobs and that youractors have day jobs. And you
know, I'm guessing you wouldlike, further down the road, for
it to become a full time gig.
But my question is, because it'sso individualized for one person
at a time, how do you afford it?
How do you keep it running?

That is definitely a challenge. I would
say, with Starshine we probablywill lose money every show we
do. [Laughs.]

Yeah.

But we're not clearly doing it to make a
profit, but it was veryimportant to us that cost also
not be a roadblock for ouraudience members and our
families. So we do offer theshow free of charge to our
families. Now, when we do itwith organizations, sometimes
there is a fee involved, or theorganization will pay us a fee

(45:19):
to come in, and then they'll,they won't charge the audiences.
But when we're doing ourone-on-one shows and houses, it
is free to those families, andJumping Jack survives on
donations and grants. Because weare doing one show at a time.
And you know, like mosttraditional theatre, you're
going to be making all of yourmoney off of ads, and you're
gonna be making all of yourmoney off of selling tickets.

(45:42):
And you can't make money off ofa show for one person,
particularly a show that you'retraveling miles and miles away.
So, again, we survive ondonations and lots of grants.
That is how Jumping Jackfunctions.

Yeah.

And we're very, very thankful and lucky, we've
had so many people support us.
And we just had a fundraisingcampaign that raised $5,000, and
all of that money is goingdirectly to sponsoring free
performances for families.

Wow. So how do you, how do you find your
audience members? Is itadvertising, word of mouth? I'm
guessing a combination of thetwo, or you know...

Yeah, it's it's a little bit of all of that. We
have been lucky that we've beenable to develop some
relationships with schools byworking in the classroom. So
we're able to reach out to thoseeducators, and they can share
the word. But also word of mouthis been really great for us,
once a family sees it andunderstands it and has the
experience, they can articulatethat to their friends and their

(46:47):
families and other members ofthe community. And we've also
been lucky, we had a wonderfulnews spotlight segment on the
show, that really helped us getthe word out, like we were on
the news, and they did like areally nice two minute piece
about us. And after that, webooked like 20 shows in three
days. So...

Wow!

You know, we are still a small company. So we
don't have a huge marketingbudget. So a lot of our shows
just come organically from wordof mouth. And we're very lucky
too, that once we meet a familyand we work with them, we
develop a relationship withthem. And they, if they have a
good experience, which we hopeall of our families do, we can

(47:29):
continue to be a part of theirlives and their child's growth
for many years to come. So wehave a lot of repeat customers,
which has been really great.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a golden nugget of an
idea. So I just think you guysare gonna have so much success.
I mean, obviously, you alreadyare, but I think it's just gonna
grow bigger and bigger overtime. Stephen, what's your hope
for Jumping Jack Theater in thefuture? Are you guys working on
developing a new show? Or do yousee Starshine going the distance

(48:05):
for a few more years or months?

I think we have a lot of hopes and dreams. One of
them would be to--whether it'sStarshine, or it's a different
show, in the trailer--be able totour this to a wider audience--

Mm-hm.

--to you know, work with an agent who can book
us at theatre festivals aroundthe country, can book us at
different schools and differentorganizations, and really kind
of take it to the next levelwhere we can have ultimate
outreach, would definitely be agoal. And also, since we have
this trailer, is to be able toreinvent what's inside. We can

(48:47):
do Starshine for a year, we cando Starshine for two years, and
then start again. And we havethis clean slate inside this
trailer and learn from our timewith the show we have now and
build something new and evenmore exciting, that can still
provide the same ideas of beingable to take something and
travel it right to an audiencemember's house because that has

(49:10):
really been the revolutionarything that we've learned is, is
being able to do that and howempowering that is to our
audiences. That is the kind ofbig, big learn for us, was being
able to bring it right to theirfront door and how special and
unique that is to everyoneinvolved. And to continue our
education, we love working inclassrooms. And like I said

(49:34):
earlier, finding ways to getdisabled performers, actors,
writers involved more in ourprocess as we grow, is certainly
a goal for us. Because like weall agree on that is important
when we're telling stories thatare for that audience that
they're involved in the creationof it.

Yeah, that all sounds pretty fantastic. For our
listeners, if they want to getinvolved, where can they go? How
do they you know, become a partof your community?

You can find us at www.JumpingJackTheater.org.
And, again, I said it's hard toeven explain what this show is,
and how it's crafted. But wehave a really fantastic promo
video, that's about a minutelong on our website that goes
through the whole entireexperience. So if you're curious

(50:26):
as to what "Starshine!" visuallylooks like, I encourage you to
check out that promo videobecause it gives a really good
indication of what the world isthat we've created. We're also
on Instagram and Facebook"Jumping Jack Theater."

Amazing, amazing. Um, yeah! Stephen, do
you have anything else to plug?
[Laughs.] Just had double check.

Just that, like, I mean, we're always we're
always taking donations. So youcan-- if people feel inclined,
you can head to our website, andyou can donate right through our
website.

Yes, yes. That was my next question. Because I
really, I really do think thisis like a golden idea. And the
fact that you are actuallydoing-- you're catering to this
audience who is often overlookedis very heartwarming for me. But
I'm a softie at heart. So.

[Laughs.] That means a lot coming from you,
Nicole. So thank you so much forsaying that.

Yeah. Thank you for doing you and making art
that impacts everyone.

Absolutely. I'm just happy to be able to spread
the word and let people knowthat this type of work is out
there and exists. And, you know,we're gonna continue to serve
this audience that deservesomething created specially for
them.

Thank you so much for coming and speaking to
us, and I'm really glad you cameon today.
Just kidding! The episode isn'tover yet. Since the initial
recording of this episode,Jumping Jack Theater has had
some exciting news, they have anew artistic director.

(52:01):
Everybody, please welcome ClaireCarbone! Claire, hello! And
welcome to the pod!

Claire Carbone (52:06):
Hi, thanks for having me!

Claire is a Pittsburgh based actor and
teaching artist. And, inaddition to creating sensory
theatre for people withdevelopmental disabilities, she
also teaches acting at theUniversity of Pittsburgh.
Claire, why don't you tell thepeople who you are and what
you're doing and you know, whatyour deal is? So who are you?

Oh, what a big question. [Laughs.] Thanks. I
appreciate that Nicole, thanksfor having me. Um, okay, so I
have been involved in JumpingJack for a while now, I want to
say four years it's been... I'dhave to fact-check myself but
you get the point.

Mm-hm.

Um, I'm from Rochester, New York. I went to
the University of Pittsburgh tostudy theatre and also went to
business school. I also went tothe Stella Adler Studio of
Acting in New York, and thenfound my way back to Pittsburgh
after various apprenticeshipsand different opportunities in
acting and teaching and beyond.
So I just really missedPittsburgh, moved back, and it

(53:07):
was actually for The LightPrincess, which was our first
show at Jumping Jack Theater. SoI acted as sort of a
marketing-side person, helpedwith our first fundraiser, and
then also acted as the LightPrincess in The Light Princess
and then had just stayed withthe company ever since. I got

(53:28):
involved in sensory theater,sensory-friendly
theater--however you want tosay, we now have shifted to
saying just "sensory theater,"but I know that's not as
common--so just the world ofarts accessibility and sensory
theater, through theater foryoung audiences in general. So
when I was a student at Pitt, Ifound myself getting cast in a

(53:51):
young audiences production atthe university and I just got
lucky enough to attend aconference called TYA USA, where
lots of organizations fromaround the world all gather and
collaborate and chat andexchange information about their

(54:12):
young audiences work and therehappened to be a company there
that was dipping their toes inthe waters of sensory-friendly
theatre called Trusty Sidekickin New York, they're an awesome
company, shout out to them. Andit just spiraled from there
really. There's a company calledthe Oily Cart in the UK that I

(54:34):
admired and it just, like Isaid, spiraled, snowballed, my
interest in just doing work thatmattered and providing you know,
arts experiences for folks whounfortunately don't have the
experiences often enough. So,just combining my skills as an

(54:56):
actor and a teaching artist, Iwas like, "Uh, hey, this is
amazing! I want to do this." AndI was lucky enough to find
colleagues that I knew inPittsburgh that wanted to do it
too.

That's fantastic. Claire, the question
on everybody's mind is, how didyou-- how did this happen? How
did you become the new artisticdirector of Jumping Jack
Theater?

Oh, sure! Yeah, I keep asking myself that also.
[Laughs]

[Laughs]

So I was Artistic Associate and
marketing, community relations,actor, teaching artist, other
things. You know, you wear manyhats when it comes to the arts.
And so Steve and I were a smallbut mighty team, and he
actually, recently--veryrecently, as you know--got a

(55:44):
job, an a`mazing job at theOmaha Community Playhouse in
Nebraska. And so that left uswith a bittersweet moment to
make a shift in the company. AndSteve and I are still in very
close contact, almost every day,talking about how we can still
collaborate and how Jumping Jackcan be involved with his new

(56:07):
work, and we're good friends. SoI was definitely sad. And so is
he, but he's perfect for thisnew role. So we're super excited
for him.

Fantastic.
Fantastic. What excites youabout the future of Jumping Jack
Theater?

Yeah, so much. I was so excited to hear that
Steve already laid out so muchof the momentum that we had.
Obviously, we don't want to sayanything was positive about the
pandemic, because it was such adark time and is dark times.
However, the pivot that we wereforced to make with Starshine

(56:44):
opened up a lot of doors for,just sort of the trajectory of
the company, and that one-to-oneactor/audience member ratio, and
this mobile storytellingtrailer, and so on, and so on.
So, not at all putting Starshineto rest, even though it is
winter, and it's too cold forthe trailer. We are doing a tent

(57:06):
version of the show that doesaccommodate more folks at a time
than just one. And so, at asurface, I'm super excited to
see how many more familiesStarshine can serve in
Pittsburgh and beyond. But we dohave some new, exciting ideas or
inspirations in the works, thatI can sort of tease. And when I

(57:31):
say "tease," that's not to bediscreet, it's just because this
all just happened! [Laughs] Itall happened so fast. And we're
again, so happy for Steve. Andwhen I say we I'm talking about
myself and my colleague, SarahCarleton, who has been an actor
and teaching artist with us fora while now, a few years as
well. And I was really happy tobe able to bring her on in a

(57:54):
more formal way. So shebasically stepped into my role
as I stepped into Steve's. So asI was saying, Sarah and I have a
few goals at the start. So Icare deeply about including the
autistic community and thedisabled community in our work
from the ground up. Obviously,we have the classroom model,

(58:17):
which does let us live out our"nothing about us without us"
mission that allows us toinclude our audience right from
the start, so we can make sureand check in with them every
step of the way, like, "Hey, isthis resonating?" You know,
"Hey..."

Right.

Like, "What do we think about this theme? What
do we think about this?" Withour amazing students in the
classroom, we're able tocheck-in and make sure that the
content is accessible with ourkids and our families every step
of the way. And at the sametime, because of the growth
we've had, and unfortunately,because the classroom
residencies have taken a pausewith the pandemic, and third

(58:54):
parties not being able to be inschools right now, to a certain
extent, I've been thinking a lotabout the connections we've
made. And Steve and I alwaysused to say that Jumping Jack
was a really "slow burn." Andwhat we meant by that, slow and
steady, is that we would alwayscrack doors open, we would

(59:16):
always meet people and they'd beintrigued by our work, and it
would just take a while forthose connections to actually
come to fruition. And what'sreally beautiful now is because
we really took our time, andwere really thoughtful with the
work and the connections, wehave this amazing network of
professionals and families thatwe've served. And so I really

(59:40):
want to, for next steps, reachback out to those families and
say, "Hey, we're still here!"You know, people that we worked
with in the classroom and thathaven't seen Starshine yet, and
folks that have had the trailercome to their home and beyond. I
want to really include them on amore personal level, and I think
that could look something likeadvisory board, or some sort of

(01:00:03):
group or panel of folks that weturn to for suggestions and
directly ask, "Hey, what do youwant? What do you need from us?
What do you want to see? What isyour family need? What is
your.... you know, what isideal, in part-- in your family
partnering with Jumping JackTheater?" And so I think that is

(01:00:23):
something that's reallyexciting. And hopefully we can
get the ball rolling on prettysoon.

Nicole Zimmerer (01:00:29):
That sounds absolutely fantastic. It really
helps, you know-- because thekids and the families you visit
and you serve, um... Everybodydeserves the magic and the
beauty of theatre, not to getall like middle school theatre
teacher, dressing like youknow--

Claire Carbone (01:00:49):
[Laughs]

--the theatre teacher from like, High School
Musical.

Oh, yeah, Miss Darbus.

Miss Darbus! Exactly! Exactly!

[Laughs]

Like I really do-- I don't think theatre is
ever gonna die. 'Cause, youknow, you always read those
articles about like, you know,"Theatre's dying, because
nobody's going to the theatre!"And I think, I don't think
theatre as an art form is dying,because it's something that
makes us human! And I think thatevery person, whether they're on
the spectrum or not, should beable to enjoy theatre in a way

(01:01:18):
that, you know, makes themcomfortable and happy. And it
allows them to have like humanmoments with other humans. Does
that make sense?

It makes so much sense. Yeah.

I think it's such a good idea. And, like I
can't wait to see what you guysdo. I'm very excited for this.
Like, I'm still in awe thatit's, it's a real thing. When
you do this work, when youadvocate for disability in
theatre, you have moments oflike, "Well, nobody's listening
to me. Nobody's like picking upwhat I'm putting down." And then
you hear about projects likethis. And you're like-- well,

(01:01:52):
personally, it makes me feelbetter. It makes me feel less
alone doing what I'm doing.
So... Where can the, where canthe people find you? On the
interwebs?

Oh!

Oh wait, before we do that, is there anything
you want to plug?

I just want to open the doors to anyone and
everyone who wants to connectwith us in any way to send us a
message on our websiteJumpingJackTheater.org. I don't
want there to be any obstaclesin the way of that. And so I'll
be the one getting the message.
So if you're listening to this,and you're wanting to
collaborate or connect us toanyone you know, please do!

Cool. Cool. And how can the people of the pod
find you on the, on theinternet?

Yeah, so it would be JumpingJackTheater.org.
And then we're on Instagram andFacebook @JumpingJackTheater.

They can just like send you a quick message or
something.

Yeah, through our contact tab or through a
direct message on Instagram.

Well, Claire, this was great. Thanks for
coming on! I'm glad we got tolike tack on this, this mini
interview to the episode.

[Laughs] Amazing. Thank you so much! This
is awesome.

Thank you! Thank you for listening to this
episode of Break A Leg! Andthank you to both our guests,
Stephen and Claire, for joiningus today.
Follow us on Instagram andTwitter @breakalegpod, that's
break a leg, P-O-D. Let us knowwhat you thought about the

(01:03:29):
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(01:03:51):
produced by Scott MacDonald, andour cover art was created by
Sasha and Alexander Schwartz.
I'm Nicole Zimmerer and I willsee you next time.

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