Go Out and Enjoy The Open Road While You Still Can

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
John Summers is the motoring historian.
He was a company car thrashing technologysales rep that turned into a fairly inept
sports bike rider hailing from California.
He collects cars and bikesbuilt with plenty of cheap and
fast and not much reliable.
On his show.
He gets together with variousco-hosts to talk about new and
old cars driving motorbikes,motor racing, and motoring travel.

(00:36):
Good day.
Good morning, good afternoon.
It is John Summers the motoring historianand after a six month absence, I'm sure
you audience members were missing him.
We have Mark Gamy with us afterout of a long, dark COVID tunnel.
Mark.
Yeah, I am.
It's that a big hello to the listener.
Lovely to be back.

(00:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's Eric editing, he's the listener.
Nice, nice to virtually not meet him.
So given we're now into 2025, whatbetter time do review of 2024?
And given all my episodes are backedup like a sort of constipated bloke
who's eaten too much curry lastnight, kind of, kind of thing.

(01:20):
Um, it probably won't bereleased until February.
So, you know, everything we say willbe completely out of date because we're
always so topical and punctual and,and, you know, on form with it all.
So a review of 2024.
And as you know, gamy, I always loveto begin where in recent pods I've
taken to beginning with, uh, witha little story about an activity

(01:44):
that I've, uh, I've participated in.
Um, so I'm gonna begin this time.
And help you, uh, settle into,to, uh, to the mood again.
Um, we had a story about thatblack Honda CBR race bike.
That, that I have.
Did you know it's back from the dead?
Uh, only 'cause you mentioned it tome yesterday, but No, I didn't know
formally, if you know what I mean.

(02:05):
Yeah, yeah.
It's, it's sat in the corner of,by the filing cabinet for probably
about five years without even moving.
And then last summer, Olliewas like, yeah, it'll never go.
And I went, it'll juststart on the button.
He went, it won't, and I went,it will, and wheeled it out.
And guess what?
I never would've said that ifit wasn't a Honda, but it went.

(02:25):
Right.
It, it fired up, it ran like shiton the bad fuel, but like it ran,
you know, which is a lot to be saidfor a bike that's on carbs, right?
It is a carbs hell yeah.
Carbs bike.
Although I do find that these racecarbs do better with the ethanol
fuel than the non race carbs.
But look, I'm not gonnafall down that rat hole.
I'm just gonna tell you the storyso we can get into the rest of

(02:48):
the, uh, of the episode here.
And the story is this, uh, is,so the CBR works again, it had a
bunch of fatty little things on it.
And John called me and was like, I've kindof spent three days on this, which means
that you know the bills I. A little bitmore than I was ex probably anticipating.
Right.
But, you know, the reason Ipay him to do it is 'cause the
bloke does such thorough work.

(03:09):
So, you know, if he tells you it'sgonna be four days, you just suck
your teeth and wish he bought abetter example in the first place.
Or, or, or you don't, do you?
I like buying the wrecks and I likesupporting him in his business of, you
know, looking after motorcycles andflipping them in bloody San Francisco.
I, I, I love the way that he'sable to, uh, to do that and, uh.

(03:31):
It's kind of like, uh, yeah, so I, I'm,anyway, so I'm, I'm happy to support
him and of course it means that when youthrow the leg over the bike, you also,
you know that it's gonna work properly.
'cause he's thrown the leg overit before and has ridden it and
he is gonna ride it not aroundthe block in bloody second gear.
He is actually going to, to ride it.
So, um, so anyway, so this is how Ijustify it anyway, so I paid him to, uh,

(03:53):
bring the, the CBR back from the dead.
And he called me and was like, ah,dude, you know, it kind of needs
tires and, you know, I would feelbetter if it had the tires and I
won't bill you any extra time for it.
It'll just bill all part of the threedays and that'll be completely done.
So, you know, at that point he'slike, I've probably spent a week

(04:13):
working on this bike, but I don'twant to charge you any more money.
I feel bad.
Anyway, so he, he rode it over anddropped it off, and then he went.
This bike's had work done, hasn't it?
And I went, yeah, I think ithad ca it's had race cams in it.
'cause I've got the original cams andhe's like, yeah, but it's more than that.
It's like, it's a full race exhaust,which has been tuned and like, I don't
know what the carbs are, but they'reclearly 'cause it, it really pulls

(04:38):
well now I've ridden, uh, I ride thesame route on my little test route.
And, uh, there's a point where you canopen the throttle properly and, uh, at
that point where you open the throttleproperly, I know how a liter bike feels
versus there's a seven 50, I'm tellingyou, gamy for the first, like up to about.
You know, 60 miles an hour.

(05:00):
It is like a liter bike.
There's something about the cams.
It's got a big sprocket onthe rear, something like that.
It is a scouted cat.
Uh, any legal speeds, right?
It's a 600 though.
Yeah.
And only you know, onlyin theory on the track.
Do you notice that it's notgot the umph of a liter bike?

(05:21):
Do you notice that the mid rangeis a little flat in comparison?
That's the first time I've ever feltthat, obviously in a track scenario, you
know, professional driver, uh, only right?
Yeah.
It, it certainly wasn't immediatelyafter, as I first came up the hill
with a throttle cracked open, and asI came over the crest of the hill,
there was a big gust of wind and itpicked up the front of the bike and

(05:42):
pointed me right at the scenery.
Oh, man.
It woke me up.
It woke me up.
I literally, because I had the throttleopen and all the weight was on the
rear tire, it just moved the frontof the bike across the road like a
pencil on, uh, my word, love the sport.

(06:09):
Uh, you gotta love a sport bike.
It is a proper hit in a way that,you know, anything with doors kind
of can't be anything with doorsis just not thrilling in, in this.
No, in the same way.
And this is, this is one of the thingsabout, um, I've, I'm lucky enough
to have ridden in a proper high boyhot rod for banger, but like open

(06:32):
fender 29 Ford Roads to pick up.
Uh, you know what it's like'cause you've driven a cater.
The appeal of hot rods is the same asthe appeal of, of caters in every way.
Yeah.
The simplicity, the basic, the honingthe form and plus the fact that you are
completely in touch with, with the car.
You know, you, you look down, yousee the front wheel, you place it.

(06:56):
As you turn, you know thatthat's, yeah, that is epic.
So the CBR lives again, and, uh, Ivery much, uh, I very much enjoyed it.
As, you know, we reallycater to our sponsors here.
Yes.
And one of the sponsors, which if yougo to the motioning podcast website,
you'll see that Eric's really goneto town with the sponsorship is these

(07:17):
guys zeto who do these LED bulbs.
And you might like Eagle Eye listeners.
It's probably just a fucking AI tooldoing a scrape nowadays, isn't it?
Yeah, it's certainly the AI tool willremember that in an earlier episode
we talked about ATO and I said, youknow, I had a real need for them.
And I told that story about crashing theMustang off the road in the desert after a

(07:41):
conference of yours in, uh, Vegas, uh, oneday, probably fucking 15 years ago now.
But let's not worry abouttrying to hang a time on it.
So since then I've wantedto fit proper lights.
These Xito guys, they're properlights I watched Furious driving.
He fitted them to his myta, orthe Beard and slipper brigade.
Were like, those lights are too bright.

(08:02):
So I immediately thought, I'vegotta fit into my Mustang.
So, and you might remember I was gonna dothis big challenge with them where I was
gonna, you know, test the lights beforeand test the lights after and all of that.
Well, it took me ages to organizethat, but eventually I did it and
I took a photograph of the lights,as you know, the light on my, the
Mustang's headlights on Dip Beam.

(08:24):
And then I took the Mustangs headlightson High Bee and I showed Ollie the photos
and was like, can you tell the difference?
And he went, no.
Is this like some kindof spot the difference?
And I went, well, one's highbeam and one's dip beam.
And he went, Hmm.
Now it may have been because Ihad the car pointing down the
hill and there were street lights.
But the point is that thatcar is not a good base case.
The lights are shit onit, is what I'm saying.

(08:46):
And I was bemoaning that to the producer.
I feel like I'm the two.
Ron, do you remember how RoRonnie Corbert always used to do?
Oh, the producer I waschatting with the producer.
The producer said to me, he said, Ronnie,he said first name terms, you see?
He, he, he said, uh, Ifeared the zeto bulbs.

(09:07):
They're good.
I put him in my wife's Jetta or pass outor something and they're, they're good.
He's like a VW Audi dude.
He went, they're good.
They're better than the factory one.
So there you have it listeners, listener.
There's a genuine test and a, a genuineendorsement and genuinely something
that a bloke recommended you in thepub rather than these unreliable

(09:30):
sources like Yelp or whatever.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
So there's a discount code.
I think the code is motoringhistorian, but I'm, I'm not sure.
It might be motoring history mightn't it.
I should have known that before wecame on air, but, but not to worry.
Edit in here.
The code is motoring historian,all in capitals motoring historian.

(09:58):
At World Music Gamy.
What?
What music?
This episode, you shoulddo some banging trance.
Excellent, excellent.
Alright.

(10:19):
Send me a couple ofsamples and I'll do them.
Move on to, you know, matters ofmoment as they used to call it the
motor magazines, which, you know,it's like quite a good pun, isn't it?

(10:40):
I guess I could have that section.
I might just, I've subconsciously thoughtof this section as, as that which is,
you know, which you might read as, youknow, depressing news about motoring, you
know, so I've two areas to, to talk about.
One in Britain, average speedchecks are fucking everywhere.

(11:02):
Suck balls.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
And I, I add other examples,but I'm not gonna dwell on this.
Driving, dying A slow death byasphyxiation, which I feel that it is.
I'm gonna move to my nextbullet, which is this.
I could be mad about it, but I'm just not.
Because you can still go out and find it.

(11:22):
And I feel like I personally am enjoyingmotoring more than ever illustrated
by my silly story about the CBRI.
I mean, yeah, I'm enjoying it moreand you can go out and look for it.
And I don't mean the, the, youneed to, especially on Sports Bus.
I used to feel the need to ridereally fast and I just don't anymore.

(11:43):
Now I can really enjoy themjust going out and, and staying
within, within speed limits.
So I feel like I am enjoyingmotioning more than ever.
I feel like you canstill go out and find it.
You said earlier you could,if you get up early enough,
you, you are absolutely right.
Or if you're ready to do stuff at night,and that's where org zeto, you know,

(12:07):
when the lights come in again or wheremy original desire to have better lights
came from because you really can go outand cover some miles at night and it, and
you know, it is easier because there'snot other distractions for your eyes.
You are just looking for light.
I, I feel like there's something in that.
Well, for real.
Yeah.
And, and look, I mean, I, it's, Ithink again, it's, it's looking at

(12:28):
things in a slightly orthodox way.
I mean, it, it's forcingpeople out of cars.
Look, you know, on the one hand, does itmake any sense for 90 something percent of
journeys to be when you leave the house,do you take four suitcases with you?
You, you don't.
But you know, you take three spareseats and a massive boot and a tin body
wherever you go, if you get in a carlike that doesn't make a lot of sense.

(12:50):
So I absolutely can understandtrying to get us into smaller cars
or, but again, follow the logicthrough, make people ride motorbikes.
Yeah.
And then there's way moreroom and way more deeper.
That's, that's the antagonism.
Isn't that, that, that there is withcars at the moment between wanting
to be eco, but wanting to be safe.

(13:12):
Because wanting to be safe.
That's why a Rivian weighs 8,000pounds rather than a range road from
the 1970s that only weighs 4,000.
Yeah, yeah.
It does lead to massive fuck you electricSUV bullshit, which is just Apex been
backwards and forwards about electricstuff since the the pod started.

(13:32):
I do feel like it's, it's, and partlywhat I wanted to do with this pod
is document the rise of electric.
Mm-hmm.
So, on that theme, I feel like.
We can, and you know, this ismeant to be like a year review, so
let's review sort of state of thenation of, of, of EVs in, in 2025.
Hmm.
Or beginning of 2025.

(13:53):
I think we can say that thesebig heavy SUV things are just
kind of, of the last century.
They're, they're justnot really good design.
And this next generation of EVs that, thatare coming where there's more emphasis
on lightness and where we are doingbetter with battery design and where.

(14:18):
Everyone's comfortable withregen one pedal braking.
So I feel like, you know, one pedaldriving, you know, you accelerate and
you break by modulating the same pedal.
As we move, as we move towards that,I feel like, you know, we've, we
talked before about the Citro Ollieand the Citron ami, which are two
sort of concept D cars, that oneof which the Ami, you know, made,

(14:42):
made production like city cars.
Yeah.
I, I feel like we can see now whatEVs are gonna be like and how we've
carried a lot of the problems ofvehicles of the last century forward
into the new, this new design.
Oh, agreed.
You're gonna have like electricsmall cars that produce no

(15:05):
emissions at the point of use.
Makes a lot of sense.
You can charge them up at home,which, you know, admittedly at least
a third of the UK can't do becauseyou have to run a cable across
the pavement or things like that.
Or you're in a flat.
So it's not for everyone.
But yeah, I mean that, thatsort of thing, a local city
runs that absolutely fabulous.
That I would be my first choicefor that sort of stuff now.

(15:27):
But that's not what people do.
They, they get defensive, theywant to have the same thing.
They wanna have no anxiety ranges.
They want to have the kids in it,therefore they want be up high.
'cause it makes them feel safer.
Therefore they need a bigger batteryand they want some luxury and therefore
they need a bigger battery and thenthey want the heating on in the winter.
And so they need an even bigger battery.
And the thing weighs three tonsand is fucking five meters long.

(15:48):
I mean, it's, yeah, and, and I tell you,you get, you get addicted to the big gulp.
Really quickly.
I mean, I, I, as I was doing aschool run this morning in the tundra
passing the fiesta parked up at thecurb, not, haven't moved for a week.
I'm like, yeah, why am I using this?
Not that for, for the school run here?

(16:08):
Well, because I wantthe wide leather seat.
I want the automatic transmission.
I can take the dog if I'mtrying to change gear.
So the fiesta sits at the curb.
Yeah.
But the problem with that is, whatyou've just given me is a personal
subjective justification for takingthe mega machinery rather than

(16:30):
the already too big machinery.
'cause you're taking three spare seats andyou only need to take your kid to school.
Do you know what I mean?
Subjectively and therefore.
The planet's gonna burn.
That's the nature of it, which is whygovernments try and call back in no waste.
Well, no, because bloody San Franciscohas forced you to be progressive.

(16:51):
They close the Great Highway,which is my school run.
Mm-hmm.
Which for the record, I don'tjust use four times a day.
I often use six or eight times a day ifI'm in and out on motorcycles as well.
'cause it's there.
And back on the schoolrun, that's the base four.
Mm-hmm.
Pick up and drop off.
And then if I go out and doanything, just normal errands,

(17:13):
not necessarily with a car.
If I go out to the post office and thenI ride a motorcycle, I'm gonna have been
up and down the Great Highway eight timesand it's been closed and turned into a
park and it was voted on by a majorityof 55% of the residents of San Francisco.
In other words, the people livingin the city, the 20 somethings got a

(17:34):
ballot that said, do you want a park?
In another part of the city thatyou can visit maybe once a month.
Yeah.
On the outside or not.
And of course those of us in theneighborhood were like, ah, ah, like up
in arms and everyone voted and you know,but no, we were outvoted by the people
whose, you know, I'm like, you know, it'slike, I feel like being like Marina Green

(17:54):
and Barca, let's turn them into a park.
Why not?
Thus on people on our side of thecity wouldn't fuck up our lives,
wouldn't fuck up our commute, would it?
There's an article in the New YorkTimes that talked about how this
wasn't about the closure of a road.
This was a de debate betweenUrbanite San Franciscans and
Suburbanite San Franciscans, and itshowed how the city was changing.

(18:16):
Meanwhile, it passed, but there'sa move to remove the councilman.
Who pushed it through.
Who in the district?
Yeah.
People that like review gamy.
My response to it is totry and get electric bikes.
I've been looking at thisfree Go mountain bike.

(18:37):
It qualifies as a mountain bike.
It's got pedals, but in, in ecomode it only does 28 miles an hour.
But in like normal mode,it'll do 50 miles an hour.
I mean, I've tried one 50 mile anhour mo push bike, that's quite a
lot because, you know, are you gonnaremember to like, put leathers on?
No, but no, you wanna have like summing onbecause like, going down at 30 pretty bad.

(19:00):
Anyway, dude, I, I don'tthink I'm gonna buy one.
Okay.
I, I keep looking at them.
I don't think I'm gonna buy one because Ijust can't see, every time I see somebody
on one, he's pulling a giant wheelie.
It usually, it's, there's always a hewait, it's always a he and he's always
between the ages of like 15 and 20.

(19:21):
Right.
And if you look at the reviews of electricbikes, the people are like, on the
sidewalk, off the sidewalk, you know?
Whoa.
I went a bit wide there as they gocompletely wide on a t junction in the way
that I described happening with these boldjunctions in, uh, in, in San Francisco.
So, yeah.
So anyway, um, uh, I, so my response tothe closure of the Great Highway is to be

(19:46):
like, you know what, and similarly I toldyou about these fucking cycling lanes.
I'm like, all right, I'm gonnaget something where I can go in.
The cycling lanes.
I'm not gonna, I I'm notabout fighting the system.
I'm about, you know, this is, thisis the mantra of the year, Dana.
It's like we have a mantra for each year.
Last year it was trying new things.
This year it's go with the flow.
So I'm just going with the flow.

(20:06):
I'm not getting bent outta shape aboutsharing the road with no fucking cyclists.
I'm not getting bentoutta shape about that.
No, I, I'm, you know, taking mytherapy dog with me and he's sitting
on my lap so I don't have road rage.
Fair enough.
But look, right, we weretalking about EV shit, right?
Mm. Do you know these people atGrider, the people who are like
ee building, like the networkof charging stations in England?

(20:31):
No.
Oh, Gary, this is Epic.
There's two brothers and they'recalled Coddington and Heston Harper.
Of course.
They're, what wouldn't they be?
That's right.
Their mom and dad named them after servicestations, and now they're rolling out
electric charging to those same servicestation Coddington and Heston Harper.

(20:56):
You cannot make this shit up.
If it was in a novel, it would feel likecatch 22 and you'd be like, where's major?
Major?
Remember in track 22, Ifeel it's like, yeah, yeah.
I'm just looking up how much they'recharging just to, uh, to see.
Yeah.
It's like basicallymore expensive than gas.

(21:17):
Yeah.
Well, well, I, I, I, I, I'm notaccusing Coddington and Heston Harper.
Of, of anything here.
I did just write down aroundthis green snake oil salesman.
I'm not accusing Heston,I'm not having it.
I mean, to be fair to them, I didread an article, I think I might have

(21:38):
mentioned it while back saying that, youknow, Exeter services, which you and I
both know well, was having to put in,in order to serve the expected usage
of electric car charging stations atthe services they were gonna need to
put in some an a feed from the powerstation or the nearest, like put node.

(21:58):
Into that, that was bigenough to serve half the city.
So it needed to be that amount ofadditional power to the service
station just to provide forexpected use as it goes forward.
So I can understand if you've gottapay for that sort of infrastructure
to put that sort of shit in place,you need to make your money back.
Yeah.
That's economics.
That's how that shit works.
And you'll put it in if there's demandfor it, but that doesn't fly for the

(22:21):
one third of the people in the UK who.
Can't charge a home, you ain't gonnaever convince those people to move
off of gas or diesel if it's moreexpensive to run and you have all the
inconvenience of like having to onlyfind electric charging stations and it
taking 20 minutes even when that longerperiod is fixed, which it isn't yet.
You ain't gonna convince people like that.
So it can't be like this unfortunately.

(22:43):
But I'm sure Coddington has got in hand.
I think Coddington only gives ashit about Feather in his own nest.
Those kind of business peopleare usually like that own.
I'm not disparaging Coddingtonor Indeed Heston particularly.
No.
Do you reckon that's what they werecalled Stringham or Union Street?

(23:04):
Do you reckon it was um, they wereconceived in these service stations?
Do you think that's what it is?
Dude, funny you should say that.
Google up this woman Chris, she staus.
How am I spelling Chris?
She like it sounds Chris shell this.

(23:25):
Elle spouse, STAI found.
Yeah.
She looks American.
Oh, she is turbo American.
She's as American as a fucking red Camaro.
Her mom went into labor in a shellstation and the gas attendant
Chris helped our mom give birth.
Chris Shell.
You see, it's clever like that.

(23:47):
Oh, that is that.
I wouldn't have got there.
She's beating me already.
I'm behind.
Yeah.
She's one of the people who hadto flee the Palisades fires.
Apparently I learned this morning.
Wow.
I'll probably never, never let her up.
Let the record show that the blokethat bullied my wife in the office

(24:10):
from his Oak paneled office in PacificPalisades let the record show that said
fellow was at CES, flew to CES with ahouse and came home from CES without
a house or a wood paneled office.
And I don't wanna say that there was asense of karma for me, but there was,

(24:30):
you know who you are, sir. Life is filledwith little ups and downs, isn't it?
It it is, isn't it?
And, and I feel bad for his family.
He's, he's got kids for sure, for sure.
Got kids younger than, than,than the boy, Lord knows.
His wife has to put upwith him all the time.
Just not just some of thetime, like his work colleagues.
So, you know, guess she's probably gota shitty end of the stick than anybody.
And now she's not even gota nice house, so, you know.

(24:53):
Yep.
But, so there's lots to be mad or sadabout, but I'm not, I'm still really
enjoying the motoring experience.
And, and I, my next bullet pointwas that if this pod has a point,
it is to go out and enjoy theopen road while you still can.
Definitely.
And to that end, mark Gammy, I havetwo quick five questions for you.

(25:15):
Here they come.
What was your best drive of the year?
I think, to be honest, my best driveof the year was to and fro in creek.
Along the little mountain road,dodging the goats, having gone
out and raided the local, I don'tknow what they actually are.
I keep wanting to call it a spa.
I'm not sure it was a spa, but if youknow it's spas in the uk, it had a very

(25:36):
similar sort of independent co-op strike,stroke spa kind of supermarket feel.
But driving from the little villa werented across to them back dodging the
goats and the massive, massive comedystyle drop offs off the edge of the
boat was the most, uh, memorable 'causeit was just so beautiful and so quiet.
And we'd drive along.
With the windows down and it beinglovely and sunny and then here and

(25:58):
there randomly on the radio one.
I think once we got a randomac DC track on the radio and
I was a very happy gentleman.
Just toggling along at 35 or 40 milesan hour and the I go, that's I think
episode 28 cretinous cars sent from God.
Thank you for, for that andwhat my best drive of the year.

(26:19):
I've gotta say the most memorabledrive for, for me this year was after
all the futzing around not buying aduly ram and buying that tundra the
whole week of that where I drove toSacramento and back looking at one truck.
Which is just so fucking hot.

(26:40):
This was a all black truck and gamy, whenI tried to lie underneath this truck to
see whether or not I'd been hit the tarmacwas too fucking hot for me to lie on.
So I looked at that truck and then thenext day I looked at this other one
down in Clovis, the one that, that Ibought, and then the day after that.
So I, I bought it, stayed over, paidfor it the next day, drove home,

(27:03):
then the next day got up, got atrailer and drove back to Clovis to
load the Mercedes up to drive home.
And the most memorable part aboutthat was obviously when you're, when
you finally got it loaded up andyou know, the alarm's not going off.
'cause at first, every time Imoved I, the fucking movement

(27:25):
alarm on the Mercedes went off.
And Mercedes of thatera, they've like, uh.
Switch on the dash, and I just kepton forgetting to do the, like towing
switch so the alarm didn't go off, likethe alarm disabling, uh, uh, thing.
Anyway, so, uh, yeah, super memorable.
Uh, with it.
Super, uh, most memorable, a of it was1 52, which is like a big long climb.

(27:51):
Like on the climb withthe Mercedes on the back.
Dude, it just pulled fine on thedescent, it juggled gears and didn't
need me to do anything at all.
I didn't need to touch the brake.
It just juggle gears withoutmaking the motor screen at all.
And you're just like, wow, nice.

(28:11):
Satisfactory, wow, this, thisthing can, can, can, and it makes
you think that, that, you know,you could load it up with shit.
Like you could have two sports bikeson the back of it and you could have
a covered trailer with a race car inand it would have no fucking problem.
It would've no problem.
The height alone means the sandyloose surfaces, curbs, all of that.

(28:35):
It can do that.
No problem in two wheel drive.
There's never been a time where I've beenlike, oh, better engage four wheel drive.
I've done like two, 3000 miles now.
Cool.
Favorite car of the year?
Favorite car of the year?
My green Mustang.
We went to Mexico and I mean, itjust reminds you how lucky you are.

(28:56):
To somewhere where youcan have awesome cars.
Yeah.
I, I, I would say I'm time and pointabout the awesome cars as well, right?
The, the, all of the new ones,they're just so not desirable to me.
They're just so not desirableTo me, it's, it's like now
they're like, I'm not, you know,

(29:19):
postman.
Well, he better defend you, dude.
He is.
The other day we were walking, hesaw a postman on the street and he's
like, barking and stradling on theleash and wanted to go fight him.
He's, he's funny with me, who is thismotherfucker and keeps approaching
and touching up the front door.
It's totally defending, but, but youknow, you can't knock him for it, right?
We're walking on the beach, right,and there's this massive gas cylinder

(29:42):
that's obviously fallen off a ship.
Five feet in diameter.
Mm. It's on the beach and it's rolling.
As the waves move and as theyapproach it, he's carrying behind me.
He's barking at it.
He's like, he is.
He knows that is not a naturalobject and it shouldn't be here.

(30:03):
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah, so I, I pity these peoplestuck with Front World Drive four
cylinder things and, and you know,my Mustang's not the mus itt muscle

(30:24):
car and it's not the nicest musclecar and it's not, who cares, right?
It's, I love steak and eggs and that'swhat that car is and it's just mm-hmm.
Just brilliant.
Agreed.
I mean, so my neighbor just down thehill there who we've become closer
to, he let me have a go in his Ferrari3 0 8 over the course of the summer.

(30:45):
Mm-hmm.
I have to say, mark, when, when Iwas talking with him before about
it, I was talking about Testa Ross'swith him and he behaved as if I was
talking about a completely differentthing as if I was talking about like
a muscle car or something like that.
It just wasn't in his, and Irealized I thought of that as I was
driving that 3 0 8, because the moststriking thing about it is that it's

(31:08):
not a super car is a sports car.
Yeah.
The feeling of all of the weight behindyou and the only weight at the front
being like, you know, the lights andthe brakes and there'd be a tube frame.
Mm-hmm.
You know, the front suspension.
Right.
That feeling, that's the mostmemorable thing about it.
And the coolest thing about it, themotor, because it's that flat plane, it

(31:34):
sounds a bit like Roughy four cylinder,it sounds like Roughy four cylinder.
Now in the days where they usedFerrari three oh eights for rallying,
you looked at that and thought, butthat's, it's like a beautiful super car.
You know, that's not for rallying,you know, and escorts for rallying,
not a supercar, but actuallyit was totally for rallying.

(31:56):
And actually there is a lineagefrom the LANCIA oh three seven.
Well, from the, oh, from theFerrari 3 0 8 to the oh three seven.
And then in turn to the 2 8 8 GTO,the three are all sort of the, the
same mid-engine, naughty light motormounted in the middle, driving the

(32:20):
rear wheels and nothing else, hardlyanything else, like the rest is as
minimalist as it can possibly be.
And, and so immediately.
Right.
I see.
Why in les's mind, Testa Rosssomething completely different.
That's a big and heavy and it'sa proper grand tour, whereas the
three oh eights nothing like that.
It's, it's like a. Little sportscar, it's, it's closer to a ca, super

(32:45):
seven than it is to a Testa Rosser.
And, and I mean thatin, in the nicest way.
'cause you know, you are inside and itdoes have some leather and it can blow hot
and cold, which, you know, a ca can't do.
So, you know, it, it has a lot of, of uh,really cool, really a cool experience.

(33:07):
I mean, I still like them.
I think they're great.
They would not disappointyou if you bought one.
It would not disappoint you.
Yeah.
Ferrari's that weird brand.
I mean, you basically don't want one'cause they're too expensive to run.
But there is a period if you've gotwhere, especially at the moment where
not that long after they've beenout obscenely cheap in comparison

(33:28):
to what they cost initially.
Yeah.
You can three pound card for like 80,000cart pounds, like within five years,
that sort of amount of depreciation.
Yeah.
Everything's still gonna absolutelywallet rake you whenever, you know,
anything goes wrong on it at all.
But, you know, there is an appeal togetting value for money in that way.

(33:51):
I absolutely see it.
And especially if you're picking up a V12 and things like that, uh, uh as well.
But anything they produce and haveproduced for quite a long time
is, is, is, is high quality stuff.
And I look, I trust themotoring journalists.
I trust people like Chris Harris when theysay, look, you know, it still feels quite
organic even though you're, you know,you're conscious, you're driving with AI
informed side slip control and TCS thisand EBS this and all that sort of stuff.

(34:17):
But I fundamentally don't want all that.
And no, I, I, uh, I mean, spoiler alert,I drove a Basey lucid, recently lucid
air sedan, like a sub 50 grand one.
I mean, it's still thebest car in the world.
I don't want one, but it's stillobjectively, and I defy you gamy to

(34:37):
sit in it and drive it and not be like,that thing drives fucking awesome.
Like dumb looks.
The seat of the pants thing, it's, it'severy inch as good as the best crowd.
V eight sedan I'm sure, but likeI, I don't wanna pay 150 to 250
grand for someone to take mostof the driving experience away.

(35:01):
You know, at least hide it behindelectronics when I don't need any of that.
I don't wanna spend any money.
No.
And, and this, this brings meback to that green Mustang.
That green Mustang has, what, whatthe lucid can, can sort of never have.
There's a sort of organicness, there is anorganicness that is the right word for it.
There's a sort of earthiness,which is, is missing it completely.

(35:24):
I mean, and like, you know, it's likeI don't mind a bit of technology.
You know, there's alwaysgonna be a technology creep.
You know, the Z's got tractioncontrol like admittedly on
and off, but you, I've got it.
The, you know, I bought, Ideliberately bought that CBR 'cause
it was the first one that came witha BS on a standard on the CBR 600.
And I'm like, I don't regret it.
It's nice to have that when you'reriding no minutes, you about a pl
of rain and, you know, it gives youa little bit of extra confidence

(35:46):
on breaking feel on the front end.
You know, there's nothing wrong with that.
The more you layer on just, youknow, it, it just dulls it for me.
And when, when you take, youdon't sort of necessarily notice
it until either like the BW.
It's just been a bag of shit and not workproperly, but also more to the point when
you drive something that hasn't reallygot it and you're like, you don't miss it.
In fact, if anything you preferwhat you are getting in that

(36:08):
organic sort of like, you know,less is more style sort of way less.
I, I'll come to the conclusion.
I don't really want like, I mean Ido want a big auto bun er some sort
of middleweight Mercedes automaticgearbox thing for doing that sort of
station run for driving international.
You don't need, with Mercedes andBMWs you don't need to do like the air

(36:30):
may mg like look at me, I'm the fast.
No, if you do like a Mercedes 500,like a remap and an exhaust it,
it's as good as an A MG car anyway.
For sure.
And you don't remap or exhaust or Itell you what I really would do gamy
is I think Lexus are doing betterstyling than any of the others now.

(36:51):
I think the three 50 sedan.
Really looks good.
The IS three 50.
I think the, the model that I'mreally interested in was, they
did a model probably 10 yearsago now f version of the Gs.
So the mid-size sedan, like the E-Classsize sedan, but with TRD normally

(37:14):
aspirated five liter V eight, 400 horse.
And it has like, you know, alittle bit of body kit on it.
But mo no, I love those becauseit's Toyota Bulletproof.
It's also JDM solid goldinvestible and nobody bought them.
Anybody you talk to who knowscars, knows those, knows them.

(37:38):
And rec I, they've, they've comearound for me with three or four
different, different people and I justknow that they're like a, uh, an E,
they're like the thinking man's E 39.
Nowadays.
'cause the E 39 is all verywell, but it's still a stick.
Right.
And California, you don't want that.
Dubai you don't want, I, I mean,was one of some of the jobs I've

(37:58):
been advertising for recently.
It's, it I looking for recently.
It's um, they're like twoor three days on the road.
No, I don't mind that.
I get through a lot of audio books.
I quite like on the road Diesel s class.
Well, it was Harris did, Chris Harrisdid a video on the, uh, three, the
Alpine B, whatever it is, the dieselversion of, of the three series, and

(38:20):
was like, look, it's an automatic, butit's got like 500 foot pounds of torque
and comfy a suspension, and you knowit, it's got all the toys and stuff.
Now the issue with them is 'causeof the limited numbers, actually,
they're that bit more expensive again.
But it was like that sort of thing.
I'm thinking, look, I, you know, fordoing Moway Cruisey stuff and for, you
know, Angie going and picking her momand dad up from the ga from the station

(38:41):
with like suitcases and stuff, automaticback doors so that, you know, a dad and
mom can get in because like they, they'regetting old, you know, they don't want
to have to fucking have the CX Fiestaseat tipped forward and like crouching
through the, like, you know what I mean?
So I need something like that.
But that means that if once have gotthat, everything else can be impractical.
Yeah, dude, it's like when I boughtthat tundra, I said to Ollie,

(39:03):
everything else can be fucking stupid.
From here on in, that's how it's gonna be.
My first project is gettingthe Z going again properly.
Yeah, dude, you gotta lean into that.
Yeah.
You gotta lean into that.
The, the, the play, I think to see itis that there's like skills to learn.
Yes.
But once you've learnedthem, it's gonna be easy.
There's skills learn and kitto buy in terms of jump packs

(39:25):
and how to do a fluid chase.
I've got, I've got a proper, I boughtsome three and a half ton like axle
stands and it's like nowhere near that.
It's like less, it'slike less than half that.
So I was like, okay, that's aboutthe right sort of cover ratio on.
I've got a trolley jack and all thatsort of stuff, so, but obviously it's
Britain so it's fucking freezing.
So went got some light back in the spring.
I'm not telling you togo out and do it now.

(39:47):
I was watching Jeff buy buys cars andhe was at strange some services and it
was that kind of super rain where he waslike his 11 o'clock in the morning, but
it looked like it was about six o'clockin the morning and the sun was still
struggling to come up and I'm like,oh yeah, single England in the winter.
How I you No, no.
Definitely not worth missing.

(40:09):
I hate on the subject of Jeff buys carsand other silly automotive YouTubers,
the reaction to the Jaguar rebrand.
Now we'll position it, right?
This is what I think isimportant and people aren't.
Taken on board in 1926, Henry Ford was atlast persuaded by his son Edsel, that the

(40:32):
Model T, which was the most successfulcar in the world, more than three quarters
of the cars in the world were Model Ts.
That this design, which had been inproduction for the last 20 years, was
not the pinnacle of automotive design.
And in fact, competitors hadalready stolen March and a new
vehicle was needed to take on.

(40:55):
Specifically Louis Chevrolet andand Billy Duran and the GM brands.
So Ford shut the whole factoryfor a year whilst they retooled
for the model A, the new model a.
And Malay went intoproduction in 1928, right?
The point is that like Jaguar, thewhole factory went offline for a year to

(41:16):
completely reposition what they're doing.
And I think with Jaguar, what thefuck are Jaguar in this new EV world?
Because Range Rover, they fitperfectly in this new EV world.
But nobody buys cars anymore.
Everyone buys SUVs.
So you know, if I'm tartar, Jaguarneeds to make a case for its survival.

(41:39):
And if they're offline for a year,well maybe they're never coming back.
If you are going to do that, you needto have some kind of the splashiest
marketing campaign you can possibly have.
And I feel like that was what, thatwas probably the design brief and that
was definitely what was delivered.

(42:01):
Was this really shockingRebrand your thoughts.
The interesting thing for me, Imean, I've never owned a Jaguar
and now would I own a Jaguar?
Yeah, there were Jags Iwould buy definitely, but.
Is that very likely at the moment, no.
And when it actually comes down to it,am I likely to shell out the dollars for

(42:22):
it when there's comparable other stuff?
Yeah, probably not.
You have that do, so the ScottishIslands for a dip, tell us about that.
Oh, the F type R?
Yeah.
Two things about that that stand out.
One, when you get an internal, the, theignition vent, the vents like of the
leather dash, the, the whole leatherdash at the top bit underneath the
screen rises up so that the air ventscan appear, which is kind of theater

(42:45):
and it sort of squeaks a bit 'causeit's not fitted perfectly 'cause it's
leather as well, which is quite funny.
And it's got a loudbutton for the exhaust.
It, it, it opens valves or something.
But like, basically it is always openwhen you turn the thing on because fuck
the neighbors and because if you haveit on, even you forget when you've been
driving through the country and you'vebeen enjoying the exhaust and it popping

(43:07):
and banging and all that sort of stuff,which it did with like much gusto.
When you then roll up to the trafficlights or the zebra crossing.
And you breathe on the throttlejust to go the last couple of feet.
And the old granny walking across,carrying her suit, pulling her
shopping along in one of thoselittle tartan wheelie bag things like
nearly shits herself because, becausehe goes bang, bang, bang stuff.

(43:30):
And he went like two miles hour.
So, and it had, it had personality.
Yeah, I liked it.
And you could pick it up for not aridiculous amount of money, given how
much horse, I mean, 523 brake horse per.
It's a lot, you know, and like it revs outto like 7, 2 50, like something like that.
So we, uh, when we were in the,when we were in the Jaguar, Daimler

(43:51):
Heritage Trust, they had this, uh,XFR, the XFR version, which mm-hmm.
I think is the bargain.
Used bargain at the moment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the look brand.
500 horse, 510 horsepower or something.
Um, a lot of 'em arewhite, believe it or not.
Can you imagine the kind of personin Atlanta who's buying a white one?

(44:11):
Uh, anyway, point about I wasgonna make about this FR was
they took it out to Bonneville.
They didn't make anychanges to the engine.
They just de restricted it.
Then they lowered it, put some arrow onit, fucking thing went 206 miles an hour.
Yeah, I can believe it.
It is a powerful lump.
And look, I mean, that was a cracking car.
I really enjoyed it.
I mean, when we went to Sky init, and like, I'm sure I've said
on the pod before, I booked athree and a half liter V six.

(44:35):
And when I arrived, good guychecked me into the vehicle,
took me out to the vehicle.
And as we we're approaching, I'mlooking at it going, that's not a V six.
That's not a V six.
It's got quad pipes out the back.
That's a fuck.
So anyway, we got in the ding anddrove away and I said, Angie said to
me like, it's quite loud, isn't it?
I said, yeah, it's the wrong car.
Don't accept any phone calls forthe next hour until we're out
of mobile cell coverage, becausethis is not what we booked.

(44:55):
And just, and it had a weekend onSky and it was amazing, but it was a
bit rainy, but like it gripped likeshit to a blanket even in the rain.
And it had that sort of, youcould make gangster progress never
going above 5,000, 50, 200 revs.
So when you really pressed on into thesort of five to seven and a half thousand
revs, like holy shitballs was, you reallymo you were really shifting at that point.

(45:20):
So look, I mean, I, Iwould like Jaguar products.
Yeah.
Especially when they've gottheir sort of Ard Aviv going on.
I think the interesting thing froma sort of macro perspective, zooming
out again from their rebrand, isthat there's lots of ways to do
a, a sort of do a wacky rebrand.
Not wacky, but you know what I mean,to do a sort of an out there rebrand.
There's lots of waysyou can make it funny.
You can make it sort ofshocking artistically.

(45:41):
You can do art, caststyle, BMW takes on things.
There's all sorts ofdifferent things you could do.
And there's two things, two sides to it.
I think.
There's the model car that theyproduced, which is, you know, big bonnet
sort of looked like something out oflike Batman's fucking Gotham City.
Really long bonnet, really high grill.
Why I sort of get the sort of heritage Iwant to look cool and that sort of thing.

(46:02):
And have road presence.
Got spades of that.
But part of the benefit of an havingan electric vehicle is the fucking,
it's all under the floor, isn't it?
So you can have more usable space.
Why have you got a massive bonnet?
What's, that's the challenge with this.
How, what's the point of Jaguar, right?
Yeah.
Like what's that gonna be asort of huge trunk or something.
You can have a pool in there.
I mean it's got a pool in there.

(46:22):
I'm just sort, I'm back on.
So there's that sort of things and thenthere's the sort of, if you look at the
sort of the rise of populism and withoutgoing to get too political, I. That sort
of movement against climate change and RYand diversity and being nice to people,
leaning into sort of a bunch of sort ofalbino, tele tubby weirdos sort of be

(46:45):
like the people wandering out into in neoncolors to your fucking weird tune with
the car in the background like it's on.
And also, can I just say, I think Ibenched you in the email about it when I
sent the link across and I made a commentand no one really understood what I'd said
on the bottom of Harry's Garage video.
When you see that car inverted,when you see it mirror imaged,

(47:08):
the, the two js on the um, on thelogo on the wheels are flipped.
So it says 69.
So on the front and back wheels, whenyou look at it flipped and the bit
pictures and it is on the image ofhow he's garage's review of the, of
the where day went to the factory.
It's basically you are rolling pastand you'll see that from the inside
of the car whenever you see it in likeglass fronting windows kind of thing.

(47:30):
You are gonna get the mirrorimage version, aren't you?
Yeah.
So therefore you are gonna be 69ing all the way down that way.
You massive.
Anyway, make me smile.
They have to do something, don't they?
They do.
I mean, I'm not sure that'sgonna save the company.
Uh, and I saw again, cars, old fuddyduddies, uh, talking about, and that

(47:51):
someone, one of the guys saying like,look, I've owned multiple jaguars, and
it sort of feels like they're sayingwe don't want your customer again.
And that's a bold strategy.
That is a bold strategy when you haven'treally established a new market to go.
We don't want the old one.
But that, I think, I think the pointis somewhere, I think the point is
that there's not enough of those otherpeople and too many of those people

(48:12):
that, and that person who's like, oh,you know, you've lost me as a customer.
They're still likely to buy rangey.
There's nothing else.
Oh, really?
Yeah, dude.
Absolutely.
I drove, I drove a rangey recently and,and, uh, yeah, it was the most expensive
car I drove of these like 20 cars.
I drove back to back, dude.
It was really a thing I didn't expect tobe like, oh wow, this range is a thing.

(48:37):
I literally drove it for a bit,got out and walked around it and
thought, Jesus, am I a farmer?
It's like, and I've, for the havingafter I drove it, that's the first
time I've ever found myself thinkingI might actually like a Range Rover
as a, as a, you know, a Beatle.
Yeah.
I think there's a reason why, youknow, Clarkson loves his Range Rover.
Harry, Harry Metcalf loves his RangeRover, and you know, there's there,

(49:02):
there's, there's a sort of executivepremium feel to 'em that people like.
Yeah, I mean the leather in this one thatI test drove was just on another level.
Hmm.
It had five driving modes.
Only one of them was on road.
There was no stupid performance mode or,you know, range River, was it Discovery?
I can't remember which one.

(49:22):
I think it's Range Roverthey both got, isn't it?
I I, I'll make sure I'm right on that one.
Can't remember.
Whatever.
Yeah.
Again, I, I, I, I struggle with thewhole thing and just find it a bit like,
don't want, you know, it's too big.
What the fuck is it for?
Google this one?
Bentley perfume.
Oh, is it actually perfume or is it a car?
Oh, for fuck sake,

(49:42):
qua.
What's the reaction?
I was, I was looking for,is this something that you
as a guy buy for your girl?
Uh, wi you know, wife, significant other.
I, I met a bloke from Bentleyrecently, and, and he was sad.
He does interior design and, uh, hesaid, you know, these people from product
are like coming to me with this veganleather and I, what's, what's that?

(50:05):
Vinyl?
And he went, well, no, but yeah, like,and I'm like, again, if the leather's
good enough, don't kill the cow.
I don't care.
And I'm looking doubtful, and I'm like,and, and he's like, it's all right.
You don't need to try not to be negative.
Can you imagine what the Russianbillionaires would say if we tried to
sell them Bentleys with vegan leather?

(50:25):
Yeah, that wouldn't goa long way, would it?
That's the challenge, right?
That's the challenge.
There's a real challenge aroundmodernizing these old brands.
Well, of course what he means, just tobe clear in life, say with the legal
people, is Kazakhstani billionaireswho definitely aren't gonna then
sell it onto the Russian billionaires'cause they're not actually supposed
to be selling to Russian billionaires.

(50:46):
'cause they're a warmongering, bunch of cunts.
So they have to get round thesethings by selling them to people
who are totally unrelated and, youknow, demands gone massively through
the roof in these old Soviet states.
So, but that's incidental.
It's just a coincidence that theRussian to demand seems to have
migrated about 500 miles off theborder and then they mysteriously don't
have a life in Kazakhstan anymore.

(51:08):
I mean, I'm, that's just a coincidence.
Interesting, gamy.
Interesting.
Uh, aside that one,
Dana's German friends came,visited over the summer.

(51:30):
They had this GMC Denali.
It was like a late model GMCDenali, so like a gussied up Tahoe.
Obviously for European roads,absolutely bloody ridiculous.
But for American roads, oh dude, whata vehicle directly related to the
conversation we were just having aboutthe Range Rover, because this is a vehicle

(51:51):
which is about two thirds the price ofthe rangey, less obviously if you buy a
used one, but it has all of the thingsthat were cool about the Rangey, but it
will go on forever and ever and ever andcan be fixed at every Chevy dealership.
Unlike the Rey.
A lot to be said for thatkind of vehicle in America.

(52:12):
Indeed.
Yeah.
I'm gonna get rid of the absolute odorpar farm now from my, yeah, some months
ago we had an exchange about a piecethat, of journalism that I've lost,
and I don't wanna throw the journalistunder the bus so it, so it doesn't
matter, but it basically, it was a piecetalking about, say a lay on Coopers.

(52:33):
And I was reminded of Cooper's becausethis Cooper brand as, as it's now a
standalone brand, John Garcia's rent carin Ireland was a Cooper, not a sayer.
When I was like, was it a say?
He was like, no, it wasCooper, whatever that is.
Yeah, it's, it's like it's own brand now.
And you had those twoCoopers back to back.

(52:55):
I mean, I always felt at the timethey looked better than golf GTIs.
Yeah.
You felt I I, well, I'm gonna askyour opinions in a minute, but what
this bullet point is Coopers versusgolf versus whipper snapper writers,
and this is really the point that I'mmaking, is the bloke that wrote that
article was some young whipper snapper.

(53:17):
He wasn't some 50-year-old bloke who canedabout 150,000 miles on two coopers and
drove a bunch of golfs in period as well.
So have the floor.
Are the Coopers better?
I know the answer.
Yeah, of course.
I mean, to be fair to the dude,like you're absolutely right.
He was a young chap, I can'tremember what it was, road on track
or so, but it wasn't, it wasn't anarticle about the Cooper, it was an

(53:39):
article about the period golf, GTI.
It was an article about the periodgolf, GTI, that 130 horsepower
baggy sack of shit didn't deserveto wear badge that golf GTI.
And he was saying how he'ddriven it again, like as if
he drove it the first time.
It wasn't an itch in the Milkman's ballbag at the time, do you know what I mean?
Like

(53:59):
not alive.
He was driving.
Yeah.
So he, he, he'd driven it and he waslike, look, you know, it is quite good.
It's quite snappy and like, look Okaycompared to the, you know, the standard
80 horsepower, 90 horsepower golf y. Yeah.
But my point was, what the hell isthis bloke talking about on an out?
And I can't remember.
It was, I mean, I only read a coupleof you like US motoring websites, so

(54:20):
it would've been like Road and Track,or it would've been maybe the Ars
Technica cars section, or it would'vebeen maybe one of the other ones.
Um, the one that, um, that, that,uh, Victoria Beaver writes for?
No, she writes forprovoking tracks and she.
Um, but anyway, there's another, there'sanother, um, uh, US one that I sometimes
read, but nevertheless, it was pointingout that, you know, if you compare the

(54:40):
two, they were at the rateable at the sameperiod and they were shockingly different.
There, there were twoversions of the Cooper.
The, uh, in my period therewas the 180 version horsepower
Cooper in the original version.
And then there was the 210 horsepowerCupra R and they had a different
body kit and the Cooper looked likebetter than the standard lay anyway.
And then when you put the Cupra R bodykit on, I mean, it was really like a

(55:04):
David Tard chin spoiler and all sortsof aggro wheel arch blistering and all
sorts of cheese and like a big ass centralexhaust at the back and things like that.
A big ass exhaust pipe thatwas two in one at the back.
It sounded mean.
It looked mean and it was aggressive.
My boss once came in with him,me in in, in it with me after

(55:25):
I'd, not long after I'd got it.
And I went, there was a sort of like,you know, a sort of slight riff in
the road and he, it banged over itbecause it was suspension and he was
like, bloody hell, what do we do?
Just run over a fox or something.
It was probably a 50 p sizedindentation on the road.
So you know, you did have to put upwith some discomfort for your pleasure.

(55:45):
But I led it to my mate todrive it down to uh, Lamar.
The first one I got was aWangled company car and then the
second one I bought my own one.
The one that came out withthe 225 horsepower one.
'cause there was still nothing inthat space to compete with it for
sort of looks or usable VA groupperformance and reliability with
four seats in a decent sized boot.

(56:05):
And that looked great.
Had more punctures in that car,I think, than any other car ever.
'cause it was on 18 low 18 inch wheelswith fairly low profile rubber on there.
And it was peri P zero rossoswhen it came as as standard.
And I went through to the canvason the fronts on those in six
and a half thousand miles.
On the first set.

(56:27):
So I agreed with my sales managerthat they wouldn't be put back on it
and that I would get like GoodyearPilot Sport Cups or something like
that instead, which would make 15,000miles on the fronts and therefore
wouldn't, uh, cause issues with hr.
But they, you know, my, my originalpoint, again, zooming back out.
At a macro level, I think we like tobe a sweeping, it was a sensational

(56:49):
car in period and the golf wasan embarrassment in the range.
It was the absolute nadir of golf.
After that, they had the sort of differentletters with different horsepowers and one
of them like had, had like 180 horsepower,vaguely getting back up to speed.
But it wasn't until the one withthose sort of pepper potty sort
of, uh, alloys that came out withthe white one with a little bit of
lipstick underneath the spoiler, uh,underneath the sort of the grill.

(57:11):
It wasn't until that one where they wentto 210 horsepower in a proper six speed
box that the GTI was r was sort of dugback out from its death that it was going
through for the previous decade plus.
And so therefore, to write in articles,eulogizing essentially a piece of
shit on the brand logo felt to melike you were celebrating failure.

(57:33):
Whereas within the samegroup, there was another part.
On the same platformwith the same chassis.
You fundamentally the same companyproducing something dynamically,
completely different and way morepurposeful as, as I was saying, like
I landed Dispute going outta the mall.
He chased his mate in an M three and hemate in the M three couldn't lose him.
He rang me up slightly worse for, uh,well, let's call it alcohol, um, later

(57:58):
on that evening, telling me in nouncertain terms about how amazing it
was, and, uh, he couldn't believe thatthe two things were produced within,
uh, Sten to be the same building.
Would you Ga is that guy the TVR guy?
Yeah.
Ah, he does kind of oweyou a beer, doesn't he?
Yeah, I mean, it was acompany car, but I had to lie.

(58:19):
I just, I just feel like if youwere, I might edit this bit out.
I just feel like if you were gonnamake money flipping cars on the 25 year
rule, TVRS will be the way to do itand the place to buy them is England.
And the way to do it with somebody whoknows car, knows the cars really well.
And what you need to make abusiness like that work is people

(58:39):
in England and people in America.
And you know, I, I feel like there mightbe a, a kind of business opportunity
there and I definitely find out from him.
I could have a chat, I could meethim for beer at some point and have
a chat with him and say like, 'causehe knows all the garages and knows
the people and it's, it's more.
It's more that, that you make itworth his while to go look at cars.

(58:59):
I would, if I was, came to England, orif you were looking at cars and we were
gonna split whatever money we might makefrom flipping it or something like that,
or I was gonna pay you for your time togo look at it or something like that,
which, that I have to do the maths on thatto see what it would work, what I could
actually, where if the car was landedhere in California and if I was able to.

(59:21):
'cause for me, the, the only time I knowthe real cost of it is when I am landed
here with it, I can drive it around alittle bit and give it to John to sell.
You know, that's the Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean, look, there, there,there's definitely expertise there.
Awesome.

(59:44):
Hypothetical.
Scenario.
I've retired to Santa Barbara, I'mconsidering getting a douche car.
That was how he described it.
A douche car.
I can tell you what he, what hewas considering, if you like.
I was gonna ask you what you woulddo for your, as your douche car
for rolling around Santa Barbara.
So it's lovely weather to the countryclub, bit of school run edge, you know,

(01:00:09):
just, just for like bit of beach age, bitof to the supermarket where you have to
fit in a car, normal car park, you know.
But like, so, um, would you wannathink on it and then, uh, I'll tell
you what I would do in a minute.
Yeah.
All right.

(01:00:34):
But to answer your question, Iwould probably just guess something
like a nice Mustang GT Cabrio.
Because then you can rollaround like four seats.
You can have the roof down.
It's nice.
You got four, five, you know,five, 400 plus horsepower.
It's nice and cheap.
It's fairly low key.
There's a lot of 'em about, you canget a nice one, get all the toys in it.
It's not that much money andyou can do burnouts and stuff.

(01:00:55):
You just do like a modern, godown the local Ford dealership
and find a loaded convertible 5.0.
Yeah.
Having driven that a lot aroundAmerica, different versions of it.
It's anonymous enough.
But people who know go, yeah,that's the nice version.
It's fun enough and it's got enough toys.
But you know, the key thing forsomeone like that with lot of money
is it's anonymous enough and it's fun.

(01:01:16):
You know, you couldrev the nuts out of it.
It sounds good.
And you can do like burnouts and stuff.
And also if you wanna upgrade it,you can put all the bits from the
GT three 50 on it if you want to.
And like no one need.
No, yeah, you're right.
There's so many color combinations.
Hmm.
Where you could really do a good color.
Yeah, exactly.
Like distinct color.
Yeah.
Again, as soon as you lean thatway, you are more noticeable.

(01:01:36):
'cause you know, the, the, the,the nice alloys that I did on the
M two, you are more noticeable.
People notice the cardboard.
It looks cooler, but do youwanna be more noticeable?
You know, I think rolling around inCalifornia is pretty non noticeable.
I. But as soon as you're rollingaround in the slightly more Trumpy
areas, this is a bit more noticeable.
So, do you know what I mean?
It depends.
Yeah, no, I, I, uh, I do know, uh,I do know exactly what you mean.

(01:01:59):
Uh, my douche car, I, I would do amid sixties Cadillac convertible.
How that We both went ragtop though yellow probably.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Santa Barbara, you've gotta go wrapped up.
That's what I thought.
He's gotta lean into it, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, and, and I love thosestack headlight ca I love
stack headlights, period.
I love pair of headlights love stack.

(01:02:20):
Those mid sixties Cadillacs.
The just awesome does he awesome.
Reliability.
I'm not suggesting it wouldn't be.
I'm just saying, you know, butyou'd have to make sure it was, but
does he want classic car ownership?
That's why?
No, he does.
No, that's why I went for the,like the, the less than five years
old Mustang GT with all the toys.
Because I know and, uh, and, and I'm sad.

(01:02:43):
It's sad to say that.
I think the issue with that would bethe, the image associated with Mustangs.
You know, I think in Americait's kind of anonymous.
It's completely, that's why youare so right to say that a night
that the right Mustang wouldreally be a great car for him.
Four Oh horsepower is a lot.

(01:03:04):
I've raced that thing up and downmountains and through many a national
park in America and at a whale ofa time, you know, you know, uh, the
standing joke with Angie and I is that,you know, we went up to Mount Hood,
I think it was like just above theColorado River and before we left the
motel, we'd like booked on hotels.com.
Uh, about three in the afternoonas we were driving down the river,

(01:03:24):
like she checked with the restrestaurant to say like, you know,
when are you stop serving food?
And she was like, oh, well, likeat like eight 30 or something,
and it was like six o'clock.
I'm like, well, I want to goand drive up the mountain.
It's a nice sunsetcoming and due and stuff.
Let's go and drive up the mountain.
And of course you drive up the, intothe national parks at that time of
day everyone's going the other way.
So you've got the road to yourself.
So you've got some probably reallyquite nicely maintained asphalt by

(01:03:46):
the National Park Service tip ofthe cap to those boys and girls.
A lovely time of day,golden sunlight and stuff.
And there's nobody going your way.
So you can absolutely spankthe staying up and down.
Yeah, it's great fun.
It really lends itselfto those sort of things.
But again, when it's there hot and tickingover and pinging in the car park and
the brake discs are smelling a bit, eh,it's just a guy likes driving his stank.
You, when we drove the stag back through,um, Napa, um, from that scenario that, uh,

(01:04:11):
vineyard that we did the wine tasting at,I've done that road multiple times 'cause
it's really good and fun and twisty.
And it really actually showed why youwant the gt, not the, the four cylinder.
'cause I had that redfour cylinder that year.
And the bumps and humps reallyupset the suspension on it.
When you were pushing on,I, I was one of those ones.
I said to Angie at one point, I'mgonna stop driving this car so fast.
'cause he doesn't like it on these roads.

(01:04:33):
It just got too unsettled and justtoo out of like ju jalopy about a bit.
But the gt ate it up.
Absolutely loved it.
My point is, three times people saw meapproaching at high speed in the rear
view mirror and just indicating, let mego by, he's just a boy in his mustang.
Most of the man mustangs,one in a Mustang.
Oh, my mate's got a must.
The, the, the attitude of the road useris, oh yeah, you go and overtake and

(01:04:55):
enjoy your A and driving your Mustang.
Or at least it seemed to me as a whitebloke in a Mustang with a white wife.
So I, let's caveat it that way.
But in the areas he is gonna be drivingin, if he gets a bit enthusiastic
and overtakes people, they're lesslikely to call the cops for you and
your sue or whatever shit might.
Especially these days, hewas thinking about Maseratis,

(01:05:16):
like a Maserati convertible.
A Grand Cou.
No, not a Grand Cou.
Um, uh.
They're quite reporting.
No, no.
A convertible one.
Is it a grand cou or a grand whatever.
They're old though now.
Well, I know, but like theyalso only did paddle shifts.
If I recollect.
They might have done autos for the us.

(01:05:36):
Yeah, that's, I know that's immaterial.
That's me thinking about you and meowning it, not about him owning it.
Um, but I'm just saying for therecord, this is why the whole
question of what would you do?
Like Yeah, my Cadillac couldget fuel vaporization, but I
wouldn't let that put me off.
It, would I?
I'd still have it.
No, I'm just saying like, you know,for, for that, I, I think as a sort
of Swiss army knife, 'cause he saysthat I, you know, I want low, the

(01:05:57):
right mustang's really, really good.
You get a nice, like dark green one.
You even get some sort of nice copperyalloys or something like that on there.
Yeah.
You really, you really could.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you wanted to give it the old,like snap, crack and pop, then
just put like the full system orsomething like that on the back.
Yeah, well, all, uh, the, the stuffyou can order straight from the Ford

(01:06:19):
dealership, which would work for him.
The other thing is, is that he,it would feel very well priced
in comparison to the norm.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, don't, yeah.
Can I have a, can I have acut of the a hundred grand?
We've just saved him bynot buying the masie.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, but yeah, I mean, look, it'seach of their own, isn't it?

(01:06:39):
But I, I think, you know, driving the,the M two through little French, poor
French villages, sometimes you are like,uh, it's just a little bit loud and
a little bit sort of like, you know,drawing the eye of the local youth.
And you don't always want that.
You often want to just rollthrough town, and it's quite nice
when you know you are rolling.
I was rolling out a car park oneday in the Mustang, and I, the, the

(01:06:59):
webcam, the, the, uh, the GoProslike stuck to the windscreen.
And so Angie said she heard a littleboy asking her, asking his dad
like, what's that on the card daddy?
And he was like, oh,it's a, it's a camera.
So he is like filming it.
He's out to driving his Mustang.
He's like, yeah.
Cool.
It is cool kid.
It's good fun, but it's not ostentatious.

(01:07:29):
So you mentioned the M two.
Mm. Let's do a little fleet update.
And that's, uh, it begin with that M two.
So I've, I've a load of likequick fiery things, uh, that will
cover everything about the car.
What was the best thing about that?
M two Gamy.
What year is it?
2016. Yeah.

(01:07:50):
What's the best thing about it?
It's difficult for me a judge,to be honest, because it's been
such a, an absolute nightmare ofan ownership pros proposition.
Everything around it's been awful.
The only thing that was good about itwas the first two weeks where we drove
it down and had a good fun in it with,in around France before the random things
that were wrong with it and like justruined the ownership experience for me.

(01:08:11):
And I've barely drivenit in the last 12 months.
So next up is get it on theroad and sorted and had gone.
But as fundamentally, when Iwas rang Pon, pushing around
the Pyrenees, it was good fun.
But even then, uh, early doors, it's like,okay, they just overloaded the air con.
That's why there was vapor comingout and within a week it's not
like pushing air con, right?
So that why have they done that?

(01:08:32):
You look it up on your phone inthe hotel that evening because
it's too expensive to replace.
The AC and AC won't be coveredon the warranty they sold you and
on and on and on and on and on.
The whole thing has becomejust a pain point, you know?
I don't even think about it anymore.
It's been so awful.
It's less about, but, but reallythat's less about the, the, the
fundamentals of the car and more,more about the particular car you

(01:08:55):
had and the way it was prepared.
Is that fair?
Um, prob probably, I've just beenextremely unlucky on all fronts, but
the dealership didn't do a good job.
They bod a car and sold it to me while mywife had cancer, so I wasn't really able
to address it and I was back and forth tothe hospital, didn't have a lot of time
to be going over there and chasing themup and arguing with them about stuff.
And it sat off the roadfor quite some time.

(01:09:16):
So by the time it's, you know, you aregetting around to re-looking at it again.
It's beyond the threemonth initial warranty and.
You try and use the other warrantythat they sold you and oh, we don't
cover that and we don't cover that.
So I was never able to reallyget to grips with fixing it and
fundamentally addressing all ofthe things that were wrong with it.
Is it as a platform fun and usable?
Yeah, it absolutely is.
It's a nice little car.

(01:09:37):
It feels dynamically poised.
Probably more power thanyou need if I'm honest.
And it's only 3 75, but it didreally start to open my eyes to
the fact that how much do you need?
Because like, I don't want to bedriving so fast that you are in
licensed losing territory everytime you breathe on the throttle.
Anything above the sort of zedlevel horsepower you sort of are.

(01:09:57):
So you can go and hustle through B Roadsand sea roads and things like that and
have your own little bits where youknow, there won't be people at times a
day and have a great time in your car.
But that in those terms, you'rehardly ever doing more than
70 or 80 miles an hour at max.
'cause to be is sea roads,you know what I mean?
They're, they're small, they're canid.
It's probably like one or two or oneor lane with passing places, one lane.
That sort of road.
So you are not doing, you know,a ton plus, I don't wanna be

(01:10:20):
doing that sort of speed unlessyou're gonna take it on track.
I don't see the point in it at that point.
And most people don't take it on trackin a way, the way most gss never go
off road, it, it's one of those things.
So at some point it becomes a numbersgame and dick measuring and top Trump,
um, heights and speeds and feeds.
And actually less about thefundamentals of enjoying your
morning drive on a Saturday.

(01:10:41):
And so really it sort of cementedmy view that the, the technology has
ceased to enhance for me and has sortof started to dull the experience.
So the last car I'm really interestedin driving is that Toyota Yaris gr.
But again, you're back to hot hatchesand a little rally spec hot hatch
with proper four wheel drive andlike, you know, no usable rear seats.

(01:11:04):
And you know, they, 'cause the roofsis like custom and smoke snakes down.
So it used to have headroom in thestandard DRIs, but not anymore.
But again, where's the technology that thetechnology gone there into A tricky dicky,
you know, WRC thinking four wheel drivesystem not into lane assist and you know,
eight levels of traction control and eightlevels of all these, that's too much.

(01:11:24):
You know, it's, it's, yeah, Idunno, it's, it's sort of been
an interesting car to own it.
I really wanted to own BMW.
It's sort of put me off BMW and I'mtrying not to let it do that 'cause I
feel that's a bit unfair to the brand.
But I certainly will be getting aMercedes instead as the cruiser car
'cause I'd like to try them out rather.
And I think it also fits their sortof brand ethos a bit better anyway.
So yeah, it's been, it'sbeen a bit of a poison pill.

(01:11:47):
How many miles you do it?
Oh, this last year.
Hardly any, I think less than 500.
Just don't wanna drive it.
It makes me miserable.
Everything about it's been awful.
This is not a long diatribe,just due to bullet points.
What has actually gone wrong on it?
So there's a problem with the brakes,um, which I suspect was because
it was either tracked, but anyway,there's a problem with the brakes
and they've never addressed it.
Um, there was a problem with the reversingbeeping that came and went, and then

(01:12:10):
wouldn't you turn the car on and startreversing and then it wouldn't stop
beeping until you turn the car off again.
That sort of thing, which is abit inconvenient if you're doing a
three point turn in the road and youhave to get out of where you've got
to, you know, that sort of thing.
Then it had, uh, a very expensive service,which costs a whole load of things.
They did.
They did it.
They fixed the, they did the wheels,but they didn't do it properly, so
they didn't undercoat it properly.

(01:12:31):
So when you got a scuff on thewheels, you couldn't repair
that color to the right color.
You'd have all the wheels redone again.
The problem with reversing turned intoa problem with the amp because someone
had gone in and broken the, uh, stopstart on it to turn that permanently off.
But the box you need to go into toelectronically hack into that CPU, they
hadn't fixed it properly back down.
So Rain got into it and destroyed the amp.

(01:12:53):
So that meant that for about a month,whenever you drove it at random points,
it would just start playing screechingnoise at about 120 decibels in the
car, and you couldn't stop it untilyou stopped the car and turned it off.
And sometimes it would comeback and sometimes it wouldn't.
So in order to get that fixed,they've had to just disconnect all
of the set, all of the SAT nav.
Oh, the sat nav.
I bought the upgraded satnav and it wouldn't load.

(01:13:14):
So I paid 300 quid for that and itwon't, it's never gone onto the.
I'm forgetting stuff, but you get the ideaI add as bullets, what should potential
buyers know and would you recommend?
But I don't think weneed to go there, do we?
I think we could just move straighton to your Nissan three 50 Z. Yeah.
So the Nissan, um, the biggest complaintabout the Nissan is getting spare parts.

(01:13:38):
That's it.
I love that car.
It's amazing.
It's the best car I've ever bought.
I bought it with 4,000 miles.
It's got 179,000 miles on it now.
I'll die owning it.
It's amazing.
I I, you know, it's at that age nowwhen you get it running, you get
an MOT and you drive it for bit, itgoes back in the garage and then you
notice that something else is brokenlike, and you then spend the time
ordering that part and fixing thatpart and then using it for a bit again.

(01:14:01):
But my idea is to just, you'reforcing myself to bite the bullet of
six months of annoying that shit andjust use it a bunch more regularly.
So then split driving betweenit as the weekend car and this
Mercedes usable everyday car asthe uh, two around journey stuff.
And then more bikes.
Uh, more bikes.
I uh, music to it, music to my ears.

(01:14:22):
Mark Ami, both of us haveFiesta Ts both of us love them.
Yep.
You've used yours much this last year,or your wife's I should say loads.
'cause I haven't been driving the BMW.
It's the car I've driven the most.
It's amazing.
I. We had the, we had the, uh, the,uh, the full system put on this year.
Well, from the cap back system, uh, theaftermarket system, um, put on there.

(01:14:44):
Love.
It does change the sortof tone a little bit.
It means that driving on themotorway at sort of 75 ish, you
sort of wanna be doing 80 ish.
Because it's a little bit droney, butother than that, added a little bit of
punch and it sort of prepares the car forthe cat, the high performance cat, and
chipping from the same company next time.
It needs those bits.
I love it.
It's, it's an amazing car.

(01:15:06):
All right, mark, as afinal quick fire here.
What is your top motoring tip for 2025?
Um, top motoring tip for 2025.
I don't really have one either.
Um, we could, we can, I, I'll give two.
So if you're gonna be travelingabroad, do like two minutes of
Googling on where you're going.

(01:15:27):
Just so you know when people are randomlydriving over the hard shoulder and
things like that, what they're up to.
Um, 'cause there might be amethod to their madness that's
a local custom kind of thing.
And two, I saw.
On that geezer on bike world.
Uh, he did that rally thing.
He said that he'd spoken to SimonPavy, the Dex Dakar rider, and he
is that BMW off-road skills course.
I think that's him.

(01:15:48):
And he put some insulating tape justaround the front brake lever and clutch
lever on his motorbike whenever he isdoing cold winter east things off road
so that if you've got your finger onthe brakes or two fingers on the brakes,
you're not onto the metal, you're ontothis insulating tape and it keeps your
hands a load warmer, which I thought thatwas a really useful tip, especially if as

(01:16:08):
he was doing this rally thing, it's likeone degree and it's like brass monkeys.
Then anything to keep yourMITs a bit warmer is, uh,
was definitely a good thing.
I'm trying to think of any,uh, of my top motoring tip.
I guess my thing, the thing on my mind,it, it is, uh, beware the ethanol fuel.
Oh shit.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(01:16:28):
I mean, I, I'm, I'm on the K five theother day, meant to just go around the
block but ended up going up the hill.
Anyway, I split a couple of cars and as itcame into the power band, it choked a load
of bad fuel, which put the shit up, upme and made me think really the this bad
fuel thing, it's not just inconvenient,it's actually kind of dangerous.

(01:16:50):
So for sure get the gonefucking ethanol fuel.
There's this stuff you can buy forstoring, you know, farm equipment
or you know, like your ride onmower or your streamer or something
like that called True fuel that youcan get from the hardware store.
So it's 92 octane, so youknow, it's not race fuel.
Nice.
But the bikes don't know,know the difference.

(01:17:12):
So I've got a pump and I'm gonnatry and empty out the ri the
ones that have got remain fuel.
Yeah, yeah.
No, definitely.
Yeah.
Again, Harry was, did hisroundup of it, was it the, uh,
Kash or one of his exoticas.
Where it had got water into the fuelsystem and it had like, ruined it.
Well, it might have been these, um, isnine 30 turbo and it was, I can't remember

(01:17:36):
exactly how it happened, but there was,there was, there was a science bit like
in the, in the, in the L'Oreal ads, but.
It was the ethanol fuel that hadsort of sucked some of this shit
out and it had been sitting absorbedwater and it had got into the system
and then rusted a lot of stuff.
It is absolute poison.
It, it really is.
And at first I was pretty, I couldn'tcome up with a plan for how to get

(01:18:02):
off it and how to get onto somethingelse and how I, what I was gonna do.
But I think what my new policy isgonna be, and, and this is, you know,
for anybody who's got motorcyclesor even classic cars, is you know
exactly how much gas is in the tank.
And when it's empty and you're parkingit up, you put true fuel in it.
If there is remaining gas init, you put that stable stuff.

(01:18:26):
In it so you have something to stop itfrom going bad, but you also have as
much true fuel or you know, as much likestorage fuel, decent fuel that's not
got ethanol in and, and so, but you'renot, you don't want to be pouring a full
carrier of, you know, loads of true fuelin because it's so bloody expensive.

(01:18:46):
So that's not realistic.
So for me, what I've decided I'm gonnahave to do is the beginning of any
ride that I do is to the gas station.
And at the gas station I putin however much gas I'm gonna
burn about on that ride.
So if I'm gonna go short thisa little bit in, if I'm gonna
go further, I put more in.

(01:19:07):
And, and the idea is when you gethome, you step off the bike, you
put stable in, you know, I have fuelsystem cleaner stuff to try and debunk
the ones that have got gunked up andthat's a whole separate kind of story.
But that's how I'm gonna be doing it.
I remember what the science bitwas now, the science bit was.
He'd gone to a garage that was a bit inmiddle of nowhere and bought like high

(01:19:28):
octane fuel, the like super un nettedor whatever the best thing he could get.
But they, when they did the sort of thereverse diagnostics, they thought that
it was probably because that garagedoesn't sell much high octane gas.
Because in the middle of nowhere,and therefore it sits around in
the gas tank in, in the undergroundstorage tank for a long time.
And that there, if it's thereand doesn't turn over, it's

(01:19:50):
super, it will absorb water.
So it ended up with like 4% watercontent or something like that.
And that's what fucked theinternals on the porch, you know?
So don't, you're gonna have to buy itand leave it in the car, buy it from
somewhere where it turns over regularlyin a busy super, in a busy turn.
And, and it's also, you know, I wasthinking this when you were talking about
your three 50 is they don't like sitting.

(01:20:10):
Really.
No.
And I think if you were to start usingit really regularly to like, I'm also
why my stuff, I, I am not, you know, I'mvery hypocritical as I say this, but you
know, if you use the stuff regularly, it,it's not that it doesn't need stuff, it's
that the stuff it needs is different.

(01:20:31):
Like a car in service isdifferent from some fucking thing
that's been sitting for ages.
Mark, thank you for your time today.
Pleasure, bro.

(01:21:00):
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