February 18, 2025 • 35 mins
Part of an ongoing, larger body of research by Dr. Mark D. Howell, and explores the long, complicated, and often controversial relationship between NASCAR (the National Association for Stock Car Automobile Racing) and the American political system. From NASCAR founder “Big Bill” France’s campaign support of then-presidential candidate George Wallace, to former NASCAR Grand National driver Tighe Scott’s arrest for allegedly attacking police officers during the Capitol Riot on January 6th, 2021, the road to Washington, D.C. has often taken a detour (usually a hard right) through Daytona Beach.
Part of this paper looks at NASCAR’s connection to various political candidates, both during campaigns and after votes have been counted (and certified). Another section of this presentation examines the use of race cars as campaign promotional “vehicles” over the years.
This paper explores the very public and very strategic alliance between political candidates and NASCAR Nation. From Jimmy Carter welcoming Grand National drivers to The White House to Ronald Reagan sharing Kentucky Fried Chicken with Richard Petty, the relationship between stock car racing and politics presents itself as a calculated combination of regional identity and popular culture-driven stereotypes.
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00:00 NASCAR and Politics: An Overview 01:27 Historical Political Connections 02:20 Recent Events and Controversies 04:11 NASCAR's Cultural and Political Influence 05:03 Origins of NASCAR and Political Ideologies 09:09 NASCAR's Evolution and Political Ties 16:04 Modern Political Engagements 21:12 NASCAR's Demographics and Future Challenges 25:51 Electric Vehicles and NASCAR's Future 33:18 Conclusion and Final Thoughts 33:25 Credits and Acknowledgements====================
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
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Pole position.
NASCAR Nation and NationalPolitics by Mark Howell.
(00:21):
This presentation, part of an ongoinglarger body of research, explores the
long, complicated, and often controversialrelationship between NASCAR, the National
Association for Stock Car AutomobileRacing, and the American political system.
From NASCAR founder Big Bill France'scampaign support of then presidential
candidate George Wallace, to former NASCARGrand National driver Ty Scott's arrest
(00:43):
for allegedly attacking police officersduring the Capitol riot on January
6, 2021, the road to Washington, D.
C.
has often taken a detour, usually ahard right, through Daytona Beach.
Part of this paper looks at NASCAR'sconnection to various political
candidates, both during campaignsand after votes have been counted.
And certified another sectionof this presentation examines
(01:03):
the use of race cars as campaignpromotional vehicles over the years.
This paper explores the very publicand very strategic alliance between
political candidates and NASCAR Nation.
From Jimmy Carter welcoming GrandNational Drivers to the White House,
to Ronald Reagan sharing KentuckyFried Chicken with Richard Petty, the
relationship between stock car racing andpolitics presents itself as a calculated
combination of regional identity andpopular culture driven stereotypes.
(01:27):
Dr.
Mark D.
Howell has been involved withmotorsports his entire life.
He earned a BA in English in 1987and an MA in American Studies in
1990 from Penn State, then earned aPhD in American Culture Studies from
Bowling Green State University in 1995.
His dissertation evolved into FromMoonshine to Madison Avenue, a Cultural
History of the NASCAR Winston CupSeries, which was published in 1997.
(01:50):
In 2014, Dr.
Howell co edited with Dr.
John Miller of Longwood University,Motorsports and American Culture,
from Demolition Derbies to NASCAR.
Dr.
Howell's full time job since Augustof 1997 has been a professor of
communications at NorthwesternMichigan College in Traverse City.
He spent two years before NMC as avisiting assistant professor in the
Department of American Thought andLanguage at Michigan State University.
(02:13):
Mark has also taught advancedcourses for Tiffin University,
Oakland University, Ferris StateUniversity, and Davenport University.
There are two events thatprompted today's presentation.
The first was back in October of 2021,when Brandon Brown, a young NASCAR XFINITY
(02:34):
Series driver, won his first career raceat Talladega Super Speedway in Alabama.
NBC's Kelly Stavast was interviewingBrown track side on live television
when nearby fans began a very loud, veryprofane chant about President Joe Biden.
(02:54):
Stavast trying to shift the narrative.
Told viewers the crowd was actuallyshouting, Let's go Brandon!
In celebration of Brown'sinaugural career win.
Within days, all sorts of MAGA marketedLet's go Brandon merchandise appeared.
From shirts and decalsto flags and yard signs.
(03:17):
The derogatory slogan embarrassed bothBrown and NASCAR executives, all of
whom publicly distanced themselves fromthe explicit chant that spread quickly
among Trump's faithful followers.
The second was just this past June,when I learned that a friend of mine,
a gentleman I've known for a long time,For almost 30 years, former NASCAR
(03:40):
Cup Series driver, Ty Scott, Ty droveduring the mid 1970s through the late
1970s for Walter Ballard, who sadly,Walter just passed away last weekend.
But Ty was arrested for hisinvolvement in the January 6th
attack on the United States Capitol.
Ty and his son were bothformally charged with assaulting
(04:03):
and injuring police officers.
These events prompted me to explorethe relationship between NASCAR
nation and national politics.
We can spend the rest of our livesdebating current events or talking
about political science, but my focushere is on the role that NASCAR has
played in the evolution of nationallyrecognized political ideologies.
(04:24):
American society can be a bit guardedwhen it comes to the federal government.
People are sometimes suspicious of big,in quotation marks, government oversight
and excessive taxation, an attitudethat's commonly linked to a politically
conservative mindset as one might seewithin the Republican Party, let's say.
It's very much a hands offor laissez faire philosophy.
(04:48):
An attitude driven by America'ssociocultural history, the unique
relationship between American politicsand motorsports originates from this
traditional value we commonly callrugged individualism or self reliance.
As I suggested in my first book, theorigins of stock car racing were closely
tied to the heavily agrarian economies ofthe American mid Atlantic and Southeast.
(05:14):
Scots Irish immigrants brought toAmerica their practice of fermenting and
distilling grass crops like barley, rye,and corn into forms that were easier
to preserve, transport, and store.
These alcoholic byproducts could also beused to barter for goods and services.
When the newly formed federalgovernment tried levying taxes on
(05:36):
these fruits of rural frontier labor,the settlers who tended the land, grew
the crops, and distilled the liquor asa form of both currency and curative
asserted their autonomy and stoodin defiance of federal interference.
This revenue stream led to the passageof a national whiskey tax in 1791.
(05:57):
The hard working, predominantly ScotsIrish frontiersmen intimidated federal
tax collectors until 1794, when newlyelected President George Washington
sent 13, 000 federal and state militia.
The militia came from Pennsylvania,Virginia, New Jersey, and Maryland.
He sent them to western Pennsylvania,the region near what is now
(06:21):
Pittsburgh, around the Alleghenies.
The idea was to enforce the new tax andbring the disgruntled farmers into line.
Washington ordered commissionersto begin negotiations with the the
frontiersman while at the same timeleading the aforementioned troops
toward possible confrontation.
The Whiskey Rebellion played a rolein the ongoing formation of political
(06:44):
parties in the United States, but italso reflected the qualities of rugged
individualism or self reliance thateventually brought us to the high banked
asphalt at Daytona International Speedway.
It was hardscrabble subsistence farmingthat sustained the frontier tradition of
fermenting and distilling grass crops.
(07:05):
Throughout Appalachia, the primary cropturned into liquid currency was corn.
With corn mash, sugar, water, a heatsource, and the proper equipment,
people throughout the AmericanSouth could provide for their
communities by, once again, standingin defiance, of federal legislation.
The cottage industries of moonshiningand bootlegging grew from the public's
(07:28):
disdain for the 18th Amendment, whichwas intended to control the manufacture,
transportation, and sale of alcohol,with an emphasis on federal taxation.
This disdain sustained the rebelliousattitudes and activities that eventually
caught the attention of the Bureauof Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
(07:49):
Now, from a folkloristic and romanticizedperspective, bootleggers with heavy
feet and modified sedans brought amuch more individualistic quality
to the sport of stock car racing.
NASCAR founder William Getty,Big Bill, France, recognized
the public's fascination withthese outlaw personalities.
(08:10):
Many of NASCAR's earliest starsearned money by bootlegging moonshine.
Drivers like Junior Johnson, thelast American hero according to Tom
Wolfe's 1965 Esquire article, whodid jail time in Chillicothe, Ohio
in 1956 after getting arrested athis family's still in North Carolina.
(08:31):
This outlaw mythos has beenpart of NASCAR ever since.
Race teams operate asindependent contractors.
As such, teams have a somewhatantagonistic relationship with their
sanctioning bodies, disagreementsbetween racers and those who govern
the series in which they compete.
Sometimes this antagonism is drivenby dedicated race fans who embody the
(08:55):
perceived values of the sport, andsometimes the antagonism is more playful.
Like when Roger Penske or Dan Gurneywere nominated as presidential candidates
who'd support motor racing interests.
But if we look at the history ofmotorsports, we see connections
linking racers to real life politicalstructures and or ideologies dating back
(09:18):
to the earliest days of competition.
In 1909, Barney Oldfield told the mediathat his national racer, nicknamed Old
Glory, would make sure that, and this is adirect quote, the foreigners that crosses
my path with Old Glory as my colors isgoing to find a Boston tea party brewing
before the dust and smoke clears away.
(09:41):
In 1910, Barney Oldfield receiveda telegram from Kaiser Wilhelm of
Germany, praising America's speed kingfor setting a land speed record in the
Blitzenbends at Ormond Beach in Florida.
In the late 1930s, the Auto UnionSilver Arrow Racing Program, also the
Mercedes Racing Program, was supportedboth emotionally and financially
(10:04):
by Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Partyas a symbol of the movement's
technological and competitive strength.
Resulting in cars that dominated mostof the races in which they ran, as
we have heard in a couple of programsand presentations over the years.
In 1972, Texan Lloyd Ruby drovethe Silent Majority Special at
(10:25):
Indianapolis in honor of that emergingsociopolitical philosophy and the
Americans who believed in its emphasison traditional, more conservative values.
In 2001, American values were emblazonedacross NASCAR following 9 11, with
cars carrying paint schemes andlanguage in response to the event.
(10:47):
In 2013, Texas Motor Speedwayhosted the NRA 500 NASCAR Cup Series
event, with the full support ofRepublican Governor Greg Abbott.
And in 2015, Republican interestsincreased voter turnout in Florida
with the Rev the Vote SponsorshipProgram of teams in both the
(11:08):
Xfinity and the Cup Series.
Now motorsports are at the mercy oftheir respective collective economies.
NASCAR Nation has been affected by thecost of competition for race teams and
by the cost of consumption for race fans.
In NASCAR Nation, as we often say in thestudy of popular culture, you pay for the
(11:30):
privilege of taking part in the event.
Big Bell France understoodthis all too well.
He knew that stock car racing was aviable way to grab people's attention,
and he knew that politicians wouldmost likely want to get their names
and causes in front of an audience.
In 1972, France used his influenceto win the state of Florida for
(11:53):
presidential candidate George Wallace.
France helped guide Wallace'scampaign because Wallace, as
governor of Alabama, allowed forthe construction of the Alabama
International Motor Speedway in 1968.
Wallace's campaign ended, however,after he was paralyzed in 1972
in an assassination attempt.
(12:15):
That said, NASCAR slowly grewinto a viable political force, its
influence wielded by the France familyand extending to the White House.
NASCAR was a conduit for capitalizingon and exploiting the sociocultural
attitudes and interests of its fan base.
During the oil embargo of 1974,NASCAR came to the aid of President
(12:39):
Richard Nixon and shortened thedistance of that year's Daytona 500
and select other races by 50 miles.
To the federal government's surprise,NASCAR wound up consuming 30
percent less fuel in 1974 than itdid in 1973, and the restrictions
were summarily dropped in 1975.
(13:01):
In gratitude, President Nixon helda gathering at the White House to
commemorate race teams for theirachievement and for their civic duty.
Junior Johnson's official pardonby President Ronald Reagan in 1986
reflected the long and ideologicalrelationship between NASCAR
Nation and national politics.
As a sport with significant corporateties, NASCAR promotes consumerism,
(13:25):
and as a characteristically Americansport with a discernibly Caucasian,
Christian, family oriented, workingclass audience, NASCAR became a
safe haven for conservative causes.
In 1984, Reagan flew to DaytonaInternational Speedway to watch
the Firecracker 400 on July 4th.
(13:46):
It turned out to be the daythat Richard Petty won his 200th
career NASCAR Cup Series race.
To honor Petty's accomplishment,the president sat down with NASCAR
teams to enjoy a picnic of KentuckyFried Chicken and Pepsi Cola, both
companies being loyal NASCAR sponsors.
The day resulted in some of themost recognized photographs in
(14:06):
auto racing history, not entirelybecause of Petty's milestone victory.
In fact, one of the most famousphotographs is the one of Petty running
down the backstretch at Daytona whileAir Force One is coming in for a
landing at the nearby airport, andit's a picture that became sort of
famous and kind of synonymous of thisconnection between politics and NASCAR.
(14:28):
Richard Petty is NASCAR's mostfamous or most recognized Republican.
His family's roots in racing go back tothe bootlegging days when his father,
Lee, hauled Moonshine in North Carolina.
Despite his political leanings,Richard Petty was a founding member of
the Professional Drivers Associationthat boycotted the inaugural NASCAR
(14:49):
Grand National Race at Talladegabecause of safety concerns.
Richard also won the 1979 Daytona500 that, number one, put NASCAR on
the national radar, and number two,leveled financial penalties on Cale
Yarborough and the Allison brothersfor their televised post race fight.
(15:10):
As Bobby Allison once told me,the punishment that cost his
family income ended up earningtens of millions of dollars.
For NASCAR, because NASCAR used a lot ofthat footage in promotional materials.
Such hypocrisy puts NASCARin an uncomfortable position.
Every event on the NASCAR CupSeries schedule is televised, and
(15:30):
such coverage provides extensiveoptics for the enterprises that
put their names on cars each week.
Such optics can, unfortunately, rile theideological emotions of NASCAR Nation.
We saw this when NASCAR decided to ban theconfederate flag in the wake of the Black
Lives Matter movement a few years ago.
(15:52):
We also saw it as well in the backlashfrom fans and from Jimmy Spencer, who
disagreed with the inclusion of Toyotaas a NASCAR approved manufacturer.
These same optics can celebrate theideals promoted by NASCAR itself,
such as the customary pre raceflyovers featuring military aircraft.
(16:14):
If a politician wants to align themselveswith the estimated 75 million citizens,
quote unquote, of NASCAR Nation, all theyhave to do is find a place to fit in.
Georgia Governor Jimmy Carterwas a friend of stock car racing.
As president in 1978, Carter invitedNASCAR stars and cars to the White House,
(16:35):
despite him holding a Mideast Peace Summitat Camp David when NASCAR came calling.
That didn't matter because it was FirstLady Rosalyn Carter who took charge
and made Gail Yarborough and DavidPearson and Benny Parsons and car owner
Bud Moore, among others, feel at home.
Democratic politicians like JimmyCarter recognized the influence of
(16:57):
NASCAR, but responses from fans havebeen a blend of apathy and anger.
When Bill Clinton was running forpresident in 1992, he was booed.
By fans at DarlingtonSpeedway in South Carolina.
Despite this, several less vocalattendees, including NASCAR team
members and drivers, according toSouth Carolina news writer Kathleen
(17:21):
Decker, believe that Clinton wouldindeed make a good president.
In 2011, then First Lady MichelleObama and Second Lady Jill Biden
attended the NASCAR season finaleat Homestead Miami Speedway in
recognition of veterans families.
They too were enthusiastically booed.
A writer from Great Britain positedthat NASCAR fans perhaps were threatened
(17:45):
by intelligent, independent women.
Perhaps that was true.
NASCAR Nation was somewhat indifferentand almost critical when Janet Guthrie,
an aerospace engineer and experienced SCCAcompetitor, tried to qualify for the 1976
World 600 at Charlotte Motor Speedway.
Even though Sarah Christian andLouise Smith, drove in NASCAR
(18:08):
events during the 1940s and 1950s.
In 2004, I did a radio show with NASCARexecutive Herb Branham and Sears Point
Raceway president at the time, StevePage, regarding this phenomenon called
NASCAR dads, the term coined by politicalpollster Celinda Lake in response to
(18:29):
swing voting soccer moms who were partof our popular culture at the time.
President George W.
Bush was campaigning for re electionand looking to connect with voters.
Of the two major sporting eventshe could attend that February,
either the Super Bowl or theDaytona 500, he opted for Daytona.
(18:50):
His decision was politically motivated.
Fan favorite Dale Earnhardt Jr.
had financial support from theNational Guard, and the United
States was at war in the Middle East.
Public radio listeners in the PacificNorthwest openly criticized the NASCAR
National Guard relationship, yet no onementioned President Bush's very visible
(19:11):
campaign visit to the Daytona 500.
And Jimmy Carter was not theonly Democratic president to
host NASCAR at the White House.
Barack Obama had Cup Series championsJimmy Johnson, Kevin Harvick,
Brad Keselowski, and Kyle Busch toWashington during his time in office.
And visits to the White House duringthat time included drivers like Clint
(19:33):
Boyer, Denny Hamlin, and four timeNASCAR Cup Series champion Jeff Gordon.
At a rally in Georgia in 2016, thenNASCAR CEO Brian France enthusiastically
endorsed GOP presidential candidateDonald Trump, who stood next to
drivers Mark Martin, Ryan Newman,Bill Elliott, and Bill's son, Chase.
(19:56):
Each driver made a brief, rather genericstump speech, and it was widely speculated
throughout the racing community thatthe drivers were actually ordered by
NASCAR executives to make an appearance.
It was clear to the Republican Party thatDonald Trump's road to the White House
went straight through NASCAR Nation.
Teams signed deals to promote Trump oncars in all three of the Turing Series.
(20:22):
In return, President Trump welcomedNASCAR champions to Washington in
what were now very customary mediaevents and photo opportunities.
And those opportunitiesaren't just for racers.
We see this all the time withSuper Bowl champions, college
sports champions, the World Series.
I mean, the Los Angeles Dodgerswill probably go to the White
House at some point here.
(20:42):
So that idea has become partof our national tradition.
When the seemingly more culturallyinclusive NASCAR that banned Confederate
flags publicly supported the cause ofCup Series driver Bubba Wallace, who
openly championed the Black Lives Mattermovement, then President Donald Trump
criticized the sanctioning body for givingin to liberal pressure, for going woke,
(21:07):
as he put it, and for blatantly insultingthe stereotyped good ol boy audience.
Such political prejudice is curiouswhen you examine the statistical
realities of NASCAR's quitediverse fan based demographics.
NASCAR fans typically skew younger in age.
The majority are male, as wewould most likely predict, but 44
(21:29):
percent live in urban environments.
Half have gone to college,at least for some time.
The average income is 1, 000.
Pretty healthy 72, 000 and noticethat the fastest growing demographics
are African Americans and Hispanics.
So the idea of NASCAR beingthat good old boy sport that is
(21:50):
changing as our culture changes.
More importantly, NASCAR Nation isrevered for fan loyalty to sponsors.
As we know, the sport consistentlyranks number one among all
other professional sports.
In 2020, Donald Trump became the secondsitting president in history to attend
the Daytona 500, and this past May,he attended the World 600 Cup Series
(22:14):
race at Charlotte Motor Speedway as theguest of car owner Richard Childress.
Who then hosted a political rallyfor Trump in the Charlotte area.
Trump's running mate, J.
D.
Vance, attended the Cup Seriesevent at the Charlotte Roval.
He was a special guestat the driver's meeting.
He got to spend time with Richardand Kyle Petty, and he left nine laps
(22:39):
into the post season elimination race.
NASCAR has wrestled with sociopoliticalideologies throughout its 76 year history.
The days of Johnny Reb at Darlington,South Carolina eventually gave way to
an open expression of national identity.
Today's NASCAR is now currently facinga federal antitrust lawsuit brought
(23:03):
on by a Cup Series team owner who isalso one of the most famous and beloved
African American athletes of all time.
For more information visit www.
fema.
gov This is the liminal space NASCARoccupies in 2024, a space where the
sport's current fan base reflectsa growing and changing diverse and
(23:24):
inclusive society, while the sport itselfreflects on its sociocultural heritage
and tries to balance its relationshipto national politics with the evolving
opinions and attitudes of its fans.
And with that, I thank you foryour time and your attention.
Mark is always very interestingand obviously very appropriate.
(23:47):
Are there any Democratsthat drive a NASCAR?
Not that I have seen or come across.
I'm sure there are people, and I guessthat there are folks who have liberal
sensibilities, but for them to come outpublicly and to admit that, I think in
some cases might be not career suicide,but at least career possibly damaging.
And again, it has to do with that.
(24:09):
Who are you as the individual?
Are you part of this teamand what they espouse?
Or do you stand out andstand out for yourself?
I'm guessing probably Bubba Wallace,the most liberal of the drivers and
whether some of the guys in his posse.
I mean, you've got Ryan Blaney and some ofthe younger drivers there, Chase Elliott.
I don't know where they would skew.
(24:29):
And that goes back to theidea of the rally in Georgia.
Bill Elliott and Chase were therebecause they're state superstars.
But I think there was some question as tojust how devoted Chase was to the cause.
If you look at photographs of himspeaking at that event, he looks like
he'd rather be getting a root canal.
So, but I'm not sure I can't say for sure.
(24:49):
How much more exploration do you thinkwe should be taking in this ideological?
We tend to be focused on, youknow, Paul Bach has done with
fascism, Uyghur has done with theNational Socialists in Germany.
When I first saw this topic,it was like, how much has
there really been done on this?
This has seemed like a veryunique approach you're taking.
Just from the American standpoint,this idea of self reliance, those of us
(25:12):
who teach literature, we kind of lumpthat into Ralph Waldo Emerson and all
of his addresses about self reliance.
But, you know, you can go back tode Tocqueville and go back to those
very early days of the new country,the emerging country of the United
States, and you see that idea.
One of the things de Tocqueville wroteabout Was seeing this independent spirit.
(25:36):
Americans didn't have to answer to a king.
They didn't have toanswer really to anybody.
And that's kind of where that threadbecame part of our collective fabric.
I think there's really not a lot that'sbeen done looking at this connection.
There's more work to be done, certainly.
With the push for electriccars in motorsports, um, I
know the NHRA has attempted it.
(25:57):
I believe they've tested some out inNASCAR, but I think that's another
issue that could clearly divide thecountry because one side is really
pushing it with a close deadline,and the other side is more relaxed.
Going with the person's choice.
So how do you feel that willcome down in the future?
That's a good observation to make becausethe next gen car, which is the direct
(26:19):
descendant of the car of tomorrow, thenext gen car has been designed to contain
regenerative Equipment, the idea that theycould make those cars hybrids very easily.
They have the room under thehood and around the chassis to
put that regenerative equipment.
NASCAR tested an electric vehicleout at Chicago during the summer.
(26:41):
Again, it was all about optics.
It was getting that particularcar in front of an urban, probably
a little more liberal audience.
I think the fan feedback waspretty exciting, but that's going
to be a direct sort of assault.
To those traditional sensibilitiesof the internal combustion motor,
fossil fuels, you know, the roots ofwhat made automobiling automobiling,
(27:03):
even though electric cars, as weknow, go back to the turn of the 20th
century, the electric cars were onthe streets back in the early 1900s.
But I think it's going to create a realdivide within NASCAR nation because
you're going to have the younger audience.
That's leaning toward that moreenvironmentally conscious idea.
NASCAR went that way.
(27:23):
NASCAR has a very active green sort ofenvironmentally conscious aspect to it.
They encourage recycling of oil.
They encourage recycling ofproducts, plant trees at all the
different venues around the country.
NASCAR is trying to lean in that moreenvironmentally conscious direction.
But again, you're going to get thatpushback from that traditional, this is
(27:47):
the way NASCAR has been don't change it.
And I think we're already starting to seerumbles of that with the next gen car.
When people start complaining abouthow many lug nuts are on a wheel,
that tells you that there's adifference of opinion out there that's
just bubbling beneath the surface.
Just to build on that, I thinkthere's a safety concern that
still needs to be addressed.
If you went full EV, the batterysituation, you have the massive, you know,
(28:10):
wreck, and you have five cars piling upand they all become an inferno blaze,
that's a serious risk to the drivers, anda lot of tracks aren't built for that.
Equipped to support howto extinguish an EV fire.
We have Formula E, so obviouslythey're doing something.
I don't know enough about what'sgoing on in that realm, and how
they address incidents and crashes.
I think something like Formula Seriestends to wreck a little less spectacularly
(28:34):
than NASCAR does, so I don't knowif we're there yet to go full EV.
Maybe there is that middle ground ofhybrid where you, you have both and
you have less risk to the drivers, tothe track, to the vehicles themselves.
Yeah, just the idea of how todeal with an accident with an EV.
Rescue crews wouldn't be able tonecessarily use the jaws of life because
there have been cases where the jaws oflife can actually risks of electrocution.
(28:58):
Emergency crews have to learn specificallyhow to deal with EV incidents.
And, I hate to say it, from the opticsperspective Two or three EVs colliding
at Talladega will not have the same kindof, harden the language here, explosive
effect of cars that are running internalcombustion gasoline powered motors.
(29:19):
We see all those photographs of thecars that are on fire and sliding
down the wall and down the banking.
That's not going to be asreadily visible with an EV.
There are so many differentfactors playing into that.
But, The culture is going that way.
It's something that NASCAR isgoing to have to confront here.
Seriously, very soon.
I just like the sound of 40 V8motors going around Talladega.
(29:42):
I don't think I could get usedto EVs going around Talladega.
It just wouldn't sound the same.
In an interview with Bloomberg.
back over the summer and the writerwas talking about how Dodge was ceasing
manufacture of gasoline powered internalcombustion muscle cars, chargers, and
some of their sort of higher end products.
And this idea that I guess you canactually flip a switch in the car and
(30:05):
make it sound like an internal combustionmotor so that if you really miss the
sound of big iron under the hood,burning gasoline, you can essentially
Tweak the sound of the car so that itcopies that particular kind of resonance
as opposed to just this kind of whooshgoing by you on the highway world.
Rally Cross went in that direction.
(30:27):
They switched to full EV backin 22, 21, and the pushback
from the fans were the racing's.
Very exciting, but it doesn't.
Sound as exciting anymore and alsoif they have a crash they do this in
endurance racing as well There'll bea red light will flash on and that
will say something is damaged inthe electrics It is now dangerous.
This car must stop immediately Butbased on what you were saying about
(30:49):
cultures going EV way and so on andso forth Would you argue that NASCAR?
Pushes society forward, or doesit more react to what's going on?
There's that push and pull of tradition.
You get those fans who don'twant anything to change.
They want the NASCAR of 1960,1970 to be the NASCAR of 2025.
(31:09):
And that's just not going to be the case.
And what some fans tend to forgetis that those good old days
weren't really all that good.
I mean, when you had races where thewinning driver was one or two laps
ahead of the second place driver,that's what people are saying, you
know, we want that kind of racing.
Well, I don't think they do, youknow, you're not going to see finishes
(31:32):
like that, where you have a carthat's a lap ahead of everybody else.
On the evening news or on ESPNSports Center, you're going to see
the photo finishes where you've gotthree cars crossing the line within
literally inches of each other.
That's where the excitement comes in,and that's where a lot of new fans
are becoming interested in the sport,but it's that old traditional guard,
(31:53):
that kind of old school NASCAR nation.
They don't want the new technology.
They don't want.
The new rules, people have beencomplaining about this playoff
system and you got to win to getin and it's all about points.
That wasn't like it used to be.
Yeah.
Well, it used to be that Dale Earnhardtwould win the national championship two
weeks before the last race of the season.
(32:14):
So I guess it becomes this idea of howdo you define what good competition is?
How do you define what excitement is?
And that changes with our culture.
We become desensitized tocertain things over time.
Okay.
But the EV question, it's going to requirefundamental change throughout the sport.
It's going to changethe way teams operate.
It's going to change the way driversthink about their on track behavior.
(32:38):
What do you do when youhave to change a battery?
Like right now, I guess, Formula E, youhave two cars, at least you used to,
and you would just simply swap cars.
Are they going to do that in NASCAR?
It's still uncharted territory.
The sanctioning body, I think, is tryingto sort of think in that direction,
start moving in that direction.
But again, there's going to be somereal criticism coming back from
(32:59):
those old school fans who they don'twant to see that big brother control
mechanism coming in, even thoughthat's what NASCAR has been since 1948.
Bill France was a benevolent dictator.
That's the way he operated.
It was his show.
So those two attitudes probably aren'tgoing to play well together over time.
Mark, that was terrific as always.
(33:20):
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Ken.
Thank you, everyone.
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(33:42):
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Pole position.
NASCAR Nation and NationalPolitics by Mark Howell.
(00:21):
This presentation, part of an ongoinglarger body of research, explores the
long, complicated, and often controversialrelationship between NASCAR, the National
Association for Stock Car AutomobileRacing, and the American political system.
From NASCAR founder Big Bill France'scampaign support of then presidential
candidate George Wallace, to former NASCARGrand National driver Ty Scott's arrest
(00:43):
for allegedly attacking police officersduring the Capitol riot on January
6, 2021, the road to Washington, D.
C.
has often taken a detour, usually ahard right, through Daytona Beach.
Part of this paper looks at NASCAR'sconnection to various political
candidates, both during campaignsand after votes have been counted.
And certified another sectionof this presentation examines
(01:03):
the use of race cars as campaignpromotional vehicles over the years.
This paper explores the very publicand very strategic alliance between
political candidates and NASCAR Nation.
From Jimmy Carter welcoming GrandNational Drivers to the White House,
to Ronald Reagan sharing KentuckyFried Chicken with Richard Petty, the
relationship between stock car racing andpolitics presents itself as a calculated
combination of regional identity andpopular culture driven stereotypes.
(01:27):
Dr.
Mark D.
Howell has been involved withmotorsports his entire life.
He earned a BA in English in 1987and an MA in American Studies in
1990 from Penn State, then earned aPhD in American Culture Studies from
Bowling Green State University in 1995.
His dissertation evolved into FromMoonshine to Madison Avenue, a Cultural
History of the NASCAR Winston CupSeries, which was published in 1997.
(01:50):
In 2014, Dr.
Howell co edited with Dr.
John Miller of Longwood University,Motorsports and American Culture,
from Demolition Derbies to NASCAR.
Dr.
Howell's full time job since Augustof 1997 has been a professor of
communications at NorthwesternMichigan College in Traverse City.
He spent two years before NMC as avisiting assistant professor in the
Department of American Thought andLanguage at Michigan State University.
(02:13):
Mark has also taught advancedcourses for Tiffin University,
Oakland University, Ferris StateUniversity, and Davenport University.
There are two events thatprompted today's presentation.
The first was back in October of 2021,when Brandon Brown, a young NASCAR XFINITY
(02:34):
Series driver, won his first career raceat Talladega Super Speedway in Alabama.
NBC's Kelly Stavast was interviewingBrown track side on live television
when nearby fans began a very loud, veryprofane chant about President Joe Biden.
(02:54):
Stavast trying to shift the narrative.
Told viewers the crowd was actuallyshouting, Let's go Brandon!
In celebration of Brown'sinaugural career win.
Within days, all sorts of MAGA marketedLet's go Brandon merchandise appeared.
From shirts and decalsto flags and yard signs.
(03:17):
The derogatory slogan embarrassed bothBrown and NASCAR executives, all of
whom publicly distanced themselves fromthe explicit chant that spread quickly
among Trump's faithful followers.
The second was just this past June,when I learned that a friend of mine,
a gentleman I've known for a long time,For almost 30 years, former NASCAR
(03:40):
Cup Series driver, Ty Scott, Ty droveduring the mid 1970s through the late
1970s for Walter Ballard, who sadly,Walter just passed away last weekend.
But Ty was arrested for hisinvolvement in the January 6th
attack on the United States Capitol.
Ty and his son were bothformally charged with assaulting
(04:03):
and injuring police officers.
These events prompted me to explorethe relationship between NASCAR
nation and national politics.
We can spend the rest of our livesdebating current events or talking
about political science, but my focushere is on the role that NASCAR has
played in the evolution of nationallyrecognized political ideologies.
(04:24):
American society can be a bit guardedwhen it comes to the federal government.
People are sometimes suspicious of big,in quotation marks, government oversight
and excessive taxation, an attitudethat's commonly linked to a politically
conservative mindset as one might seewithin the Republican Party, let's say.
It's very much a hands offor laissez faire philosophy.
(04:48):
An attitude driven by America'ssociocultural history, the unique
relationship between American politicsand motorsports originates from this
traditional value we commonly callrugged individualism or self reliance.
As I suggested in my first book, theorigins of stock car racing were closely
tied to the heavily agrarian economies ofthe American mid Atlantic and Southeast.
(05:14):
Scots Irish immigrants brought toAmerica their practice of fermenting and
distilling grass crops like barley, rye,and corn into forms that were easier
to preserve, transport, and store.
These alcoholic byproducts could also beused to barter for goods and services.
When the newly formed federalgovernment tried levying taxes on
(05:36):
these fruits of rural frontier labor,the settlers who tended the land, grew
the crops, and distilled the liquor asa form of both currency and curative
asserted their autonomy and stoodin defiance of federal interference.
This revenue stream led to the passageof a national whiskey tax in 1791.
(05:57):
The hard working, predominantly ScotsIrish frontiersmen intimidated federal
tax collectors until 1794, when newlyelected President George Washington
sent 13, 000 federal and state militia.
The militia came from Pennsylvania,Virginia, New Jersey, and Maryland.
He sent them to western Pennsylvania,the region near what is now
(06:21):
Pittsburgh, around the Alleghenies.
The idea was to enforce the new tax andbring the disgruntled farmers into line.
Washington ordered commissionersto begin negotiations with the the
frontiersman while at the same timeleading the aforementioned troops
toward possible confrontation.
The Whiskey Rebellion played a rolein the ongoing formation of political
(06:44):
parties in the United States, but italso reflected the qualities of rugged
individualism or self reliance thateventually brought us to the high banked
asphalt at Daytona International Speedway.
It was hardscrabble subsistence farmingthat sustained the frontier tradition of
fermenting and distilling grass crops.
(07:05):
Throughout Appalachia, the primary cropturned into liquid currency was corn.
With corn mash, sugar, water, a heatsource, and the proper equipment,
people throughout the AmericanSouth could provide for their
communities by, once again, standingin defiance, of federal legislation.
The cottage industries of moonshiningand bootlegging grew from the public's
(07:28):
disdain for the 18th Amendment, whichwas intended to control the manufacture,
transportation, and sale of alcohol,with an emphasis on federal taxation.
This disdain sustained the rebelliousattitudes and activities that eventually
caught the attention of the Bureauof Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
(07:49):
Now, from a folkloristic and romanticizedperspective, bootleggers with heavy
feet and modified sedans brought amuch more individualistic quality
to the sport of stock car racing.
NASCAR founder William Getty,Big Bill, France, recognized
the public's fascination withthese outlaw personalities.
(08:10):
Many of NASCAR's earliest starsearned money by bootlegging moonshine.
Drivers like Junior Johnson, thelast American hero according to Tom
Wolfe's 1965 Esquire article, whodid jail time in Chillicothe, Ohio
in 1956 after getting arrested athis family's still in North Carolina.
(08:31):
This outlaw mythos has beenpart of NASCAR ever since.
Race teams operate asindependent contractors.
As such, teams have a somewhatantagonistic relationship with their
sanctioning bodies, disagreementsbetween racers and those who govern
the series in which they compete.
Sometimes this antagonism is drivenby dedicated race fans who embody the
(08:55):
perceived values of the sport, andsometimes the antagonism is more playful.
Like when Roger Penske or Dan Gurneywere nominated as presidential candidates
who'd support motor racing interests.
But if we look at the history ofmotorsports, we see connections
linking racers to real life politicalstructures and or ideologies dating back
(09:18):
to the earliest days of competition.
In 1909, Barney Oldfield told the mediathat his national racer, nicknamed Old
Glory, would make sure that, and this is adirect quote, the foreigners that crosses
my path with Old Glory as my colors isgoing to find a Boston tea party brewing
before the dust and smoke clears away.
(09:41):
In 1910, Barney Oldfield receiveda telegram from Kaiser Wilhelm of
Germany, praising America's speed kingfor setting a land speed record in the
Blitzenbends at Ormond Beach in Florida.
In the late 1930s, the Auto UnionSilver Arrow Racing Program, also the
Mercedes Racing Program, was supportedboth emotionally and financially
(10:04):
by Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Partyas a symbol of the movement's
technological and competitive strength.
Resulting in cars that dominated mostof the races in which they ran, as
we have heard in a couple of programsand presentations over the years.
In 1972, Texan Lloyd Ruby drovethe Silent Majority Special at
(10:25):
Indianapolis in honor of that emergingsociopolitical philosophy and the
Americans who believed in its emphasison traditional, more conservative values.
In 2001, American values were emblazonedacross NASCAR following 9 11, with
cars carrying paint schemes andlanguage in response to the event.
(10:47):
In 2013, Texas Motor Speedwayhosted the NRA 500 NASCAR Cup Series
event, with the full support ofRepublican Governor Greg Abbott.
And in 2015, Republican interestsincreased voter turnout in Florida
with the Rev the Vote SponsorshipProgram of teams in both the
(11:08):
Xfinity and the Cup Series.
Now motorsports are at the mercy oftheir respective collective economies.
NASCAR Nation has been affected by thecost of competition for race teams and
by the cost of consumption for race fans.
In NASCAR Nation, as we often say in thestudy of popular culture, you pay for the
(11:30):
privilege of taking part in the event.
Big Bell France understoodthis all too well.
He knew that stock car racing was aviable way to grab people's attention,
and he knew that politicians wouldmost likely want to get their names
and causes in front of an audience.
In 1972, France used his influenceto win the state of Florida for
(11:53):
presidential candidate George Wallace.
France helped guide Wallace'scampaign because Wallace, as
governor of Alabama, allowed forthe construction of the Alabama
International Motor Speedway in 1968.
Wallace's campaign ended, however,after he was paralyzed in 1972
in an assassination attempt.
(12:15):
That said, NASCAR slowly grewinto a viable political force, its
influence wielded by the France familyand extending to the White House.
NASCAR was a conduit for capitalizingon and exploiting the sociocultural
attitudes and interests of its fan base.
During the oil embargo of 1974,NASCAR came to the aid of President
(12:39):
Richard Nixon and shortened thedistance of that year's Daytona 500
and select other races by 50 miles.
To the federal government's surprise,NASCAR wound up consuming 30
percent less fuel in 1974 than itdid in 1973, and the restrictions
were summarily dropped in 1975.
(13:01):
In gratitude, President Nixon helda gathering at the White House to
commemorate race teams for theirachievement and for their civic duty.
Junior Johnson's official pardonby President Ronald Reagan in 1986
reflected the long and ideologicalrelationship between NASCAR
Nation and national politics.
As a sport with significant corporateties, NASCAR promotes consumerism,
(13:25):
and as a characteristically Americansport with a discernibly Caucasian,
Christian, family oriented, workingclass audience, NASCAR became a
safe haven for conservative causes.
In 1984, Reagan flew to DaytonaInternational Speedway to watch
the Firecracker 400 on July 4th.
(13:46):
It turned out to be the daythat Richard Petty won his 200th
career NASCAR Cup Series race.
To honor Petty's accomplishment,the president sat down with NASCAR
teams to enjoy a picnic of KentuckyFried Chicken and Pepsi Cola, both
companies being loyal NASCAR sponsors.
The day resulted in some of themost recognized photographs in
(14:06):
auto racing history, not entirelybecause of Petty's milestone victory.
In fact, one of the most famousphotographs is the one of Petty running
down the backstretch at Daytona whileAir Force One is coming in for a
landing at the nearby airport, andit's a picture that became sort of
famous and kind of synonymous of thisconnection between politics and NASCAR.
(14:28):
Richard Petty is NASCAR's mostfamous or most recognized Republican.
His family's roots in racing go back tothe bootlegging days when his father,
Lee, hauled Moonshine in North Carolina.
Despite his political leanings,Richard Petty was a founding member of
the Professional Drivers Associationthat boycotted the inaugural NASCAR
(14:49):
Grand National Race at Talladegabecause of safety concerns.
Richard also won the 1979 Daytona500 that, number one, put NASCAR on
the national radar, and number two,leveled financial penalties on Cale
Yarborough and the Allison brothersfor their televised post race fight.
(15:10):
As Bobby Allison once told me,the punishment that cost his
family income ended up earningtens of millions of dollars.
For NASCAR, because NASCAR used a lot ofthat footage in promotional materials.
Such hypocrisy puts NASCARin an uncomfortable position.
Every event on the NASCAR CupSeries schedule is televised, and
(15:30):
such coverage provides extensiveoptics for the enterprises that
put their names on cars each week.
Such optics can, unfortunately, rile theideological emotions of NASCAR Nation.
We saw this when NASCAR decided to ban theconfederate flag in the wake of the Black
Lives Matter movement a few years ago.
(15:52):
We also saw it as well in the backlashfrom fans and from Jimmy Spencer, who
disagreed with the inclusion of Toyotaas a NASCAR approved manufacturer.
These same optics can celebrate theideals promoted by NASCAR itself,
such as the customary pre raceflyovers featuring military aircraft.
(16:14):
If a politician wants to align themselveswith the estimated 75 million citizens,
quote unquote, of NASCAR Nation, all theyhave to do is find a place to fit in.
Georgia Governor Jimmy Carterwas a friend of stock car racing.
As president in 1978, Carter invitedNASCAR stars and cars to the White House,
(16:35):
despite him holding a Mideast Peace Summitat Camp David when NASCAR came calling.
That didn't matter because it was FirstLady Rosalyn Carter who took charge
and made Gail Yarborough and DavidPearson and Benny Parsons and car owner
Bud Moore, among others, feel at home.
Democratic politicians like JimmyCarter recognized the influence of
(16:57):
NASCAR, but responses from fans havebeen a blend of apathy and anger.
When Bill Clinton was running forpresident in 1992, he was booed.
By fans at DarlingtonSpeedway in South Carolina.
Despite this, several less vocalattendees, including NASCAR team
members and drivers, according toSouth Carolina news writer Kathleen
(17:21):
Decker, believe that Clinton wouldindeed make a good president.
In 2011, then First Lady MichelleObama and Second Lady Jill Biden
attended the NASCAR season finaleat Homestead Miami Speedway in
recognition of veterans families.
They too were enthusiastically booed.
A writer from Great Britain positedthat NASCAR fans perhaps were threatened
(17:45):
by intelligent, independent women.
Perhaps that was true.
NASCAR Nation was somewhat indifferentand almost critical when Janet Guthrie,
an aerospace engineer and experienced SCCAcompetitor, tried to qualify for the 1976
World 600 at Charlotte Motor Speedway.
Even though Sarah Christian andLouise Smith, drove in NASCAR
(18:08):
events during the 1940s and 1950s.
In 2004, I did a radio show with NASCARexecutive Herb Branham and Sears Point
Raceway president at the time, StevePage, regarding this phenomenon called
NASCAR dads, the term coined by politicalpollster Celinda Lake in response to
(18:29):
swing voting soccer moms who were partof our popular culture at the time.
President George W.
Bush was campaigning for re electionand looking to connect with voters.
Of the two major sporting eventshe could attend that February,
either the Super Bowl or theDaytona 500, he opted for Daytona.
(18:50):
His decision was politically motivated.
Fan favorite Dale Earnhardt Jr.
had financial support from theNational Guard, and the United
States was at war in the Middle East.
Public radio listeners in the PacificNorthwest openly criticized the NASCAR
National Guard relationship, yet no onementioned President Bush's very visible
(19:11):
campaign visit to the Daytona 500.
And Jimmy Carter was not theonly Democratic president to
host NASCAR at the White House.
Barack Obama had Cup Series championsJimmy Johnson, Kevin Harvick,
Brad Keselowski, and Kyle Busch toWashington during his time in office.
And visits to the White House duringthat time included drivers like Clint
(19:33):
Boyer, Denny Hamlin, and four timeNASCAR Cup Series champion Jeff Gordon.
At a rally in Georgia in 2016, thenNASCAR CEO Brian France enthusiastically
endorsed GOP presidential candidateDonald Trump, who stood next to
drivers Mark Martin, Ryan Newman,Bill Elliott, and Bill's son, Chase.
(19:56):
Each driver made a brief, rather genericstump speech, and it was widely speculated
throughout the racing community thatthe drivers were actually ordered by
NASCAR executives to make an appearance.
It was clear to the Republican Party thatDonald Trump's road to the White House
went straight through NASCAR Nation.
Teams signed deals to promote Trump oncars in all three of the Turing Series.
(20:22):
In return, President Trump welcomedNASCAR champions to Washington in
what were now very customary mediaevents and photo opportunities.
And those opportunitiesaren't just for racers.
We see this all the time withSuper Bowl champions, college
sports champions, the World Series.
I mean, the Los Angeles Dodgerswill probably go to the White
House at some point here.
(20:42):
So that idea has become partof our national tradition.
When the seemingly more culturallyinclusive NASCAR that banned Confederate
flags publicly supported the cause ofCup Series driver Bubba Wallace, who
openly championed the Black Lives Mattermovement, then President Donald Trump
criticized the sanctioning body for givingin to liberal pressure, for going woke,
(21:07):
as he put it, and for blatantly insultingthe stereotyped good ol boy audience.
Such political prejudice is curiouswhen you examine the statistical
realities of NASCAR's quitediverse fan based demographics.
NASCAR fans typically skew younger in age.
The majority are male, as wewould most likely predict, but 44
(21:29):
percent live in urban environments.
Half have gone to college,at least for some time.
The average income is 1, 000.
Pretty healthy 72, 000 and noticethat the fastest growing demographics
are African Americans and Hispanics.
So the idea of NASCAR beingthat good old boy sport that is
(21:50):
changing as our culture changes.
More importantly, NASCAR Nation isrevered for fan loyalty to sponsors.
As we know, the sport consistentlyranks number one among all
other professional sports.
In 2020, Donald Trump became the secondsitting president in history to attend
the Daytona 500, and this past May,he attended the World 600 Cup Series
(22:14):
race at Charlotte Motor Speedway as theguest of car owner Richard Childress.
Who then hosted a political rallyfor Trump in the Charlotte area.
Trump's running mate, J.
D.
Vance, attended the Cup Seriesevent at the Charlotte Roval.
He was a special guestat the driver's meeting.
He got to spend time with Richardand Kyle Petty, and he left nine laps
(22:39):
into the post season elimination race.
NASCAR has wrestled with sociopoliticalideologies throughout its 76 year history.
The days of Johnny Reb at Darlington,South Carolina eventually gave way to
an open expression of national identity.
Today's NASCAR is now currently facinga federal antitrust lawsuit brought
(23:03):
on by a Cup Series team owner who isalso one of the most famous and beloved
African American athletes of all time.
For more information visit www.
fema.
gov This is the liminal space NASCARoccupies in 2024, a space where the
sport's current fan base reflectsa growing and changing diverse and
(23:24):
inclusive society, while the sport itselfreflects on its sociocultural heritage
and tries to balance its relationshipto national politics with the evolving
opinions and attitudes of its fans.
And with that, I thank you foryour time and your attention.
Mark is always very interestingand obviously very appropriate.
(23:47):
Are there any Democratsthat drive a NASCAR?
Not that I have seen or come across.
I'm sure there are people, and I guessthat there are folks who have liberal
sensibilities, but for them to come outpublicly and to admit that, I think in
some cases might be not career suicide,but at least career possibly damaging.
And again, it has to do with that.
(24:09):
Who are you as the individual?
Are you part of this teamand what they espouse?
Or do you stand out andstand out for yourself?
I'm guessing probably Bubba Wallace,the most liberal of the drivers and
whether some of the guys in his posse.
I mean, you've got Ryan Blaney and some ofthe younger drivers there, Chase Elliott.
I don't know where they would skew.
(24:29):
And that goes back to theidea of the rally in Georgia.
Bill Elliott and Chase were therebecause they're state superstars.
But I think there was some question as tojust how devoted Chase was to the cause.
If you look at photographs of himspeaking at that event, he looks like
he'd rather be getting a root canal.
So, but I'm not sure I can't say for sure.
(24:49):
How much more exploration do you thinkwe should be taking in this ideological?
We tend to be focused on, youknow, Paul Bach has done with
fascism, Uyghur has done with theNational Socialists in Germany.
When I first saw this topic,it was like, how much has
there really been done on this?
This has seemed like a veryunique approach you're taking.
Just from the American standpoint,this idea of self reliance, those of us
(25:12):
who teach literature, we kind of lumpthat into Ralph Waldo Emerson and all
of his addresses about self reliance.
But, you know, you can go back tode Tocqueville and go back to those
very early days of the new country,the emerging country of the United
States, and you see that idea.
One of the things de Tocqueville wroteabout Was seeing this independent spirit.
(25:36):
Americans didn't have to answer to a king.
They didn't have toanswer really to anybody.
And that's kind of where that threadbecame part of our collective fabric.
I think there's really not a lot that'sbeen done looking at this connection.
There's more work to be done, certainly.
With the push for electriccars in motorsports, um, I
know the NHRA has attempted it.
(25:57):
I believe they've tested some out inNASCAR, but I think that's another
issue that could clearly divide thecountry because one side is really
pushing it with a close deadline,and the other side is more relaxed.
Going with the person's choice.
So how do you feel that willcome down in the future?
That's a good observation to make becausethe next gen car, which is the direct
(26:19):
descendant of the car of tomorrow, thenext gen car has been designed to contain
regenerative Equipment, the idea that theycould make those cars hybrids very easily.
They have the room under thehood and around the chassis to
put that regenerative equipment.
NASCAR tested an electric vehicleout at Chicago during the summer.
(26:41):
Again, it was all about optics.
It was getting that particularcar in front of an urban, probably
a little more liberal audience.
I think the fan feedback waspretty exciting, but that's going
to be a direct sort of assault.
To those traditional sensibilitiesof the internal combustion motor,
fossil fuels, you know, the roots ofwhat made automobiling automobiling,
(27:03):
even though electric cars, as weknow, go back to the turn of the 20th
century, the electric cars were onthe streets back in the early 1900s.
But I think it's going to create a realdivide within NASCAR nation because
you're going to have the younger audience.
That's leaning toward that moreenvironmentally conscious idea.
NASCAR went that way.
(27:23):
NASCAR has a very active green sort ofenvironmentally conscious aspect to it.
They encourage recycling of oil.
They encourage recycling ofproducts, plant trees at all the
different venues around the country.
NASCAR is trying to lean in that moreenvironmentally conscious direction.
But again, you're going to get thatpushback from that traditional, this is
(27:47):
the way NASCAR has been don't change it.
And I think we're already starting to seerumbles of that with the next gen car.
When people start complaining abouthow many lug nuts are on a wheel,
that tells you that there's adifference of opinion out there that's
just bubbling beneath the surface.
Just to build on that, I thinkthere's a safety concern that
still needs to be addressed.
If you went full EV, the batterysituation, you have the massive, you know,
(28:10):
wreck, and you have five cars piling upand they all become an inferno blaze,
that's a serious risk to the drivers, anda lot of tracks aren't built for that.
Equipped to support howto extinguish an EV fire.
We have Formula E, so obviouslythey're doing something.
I don't know enough about what'sgoing on in that realm, and how
they address incidents and crashes.
I think something like Formula Seriestends to wreck a little less spectacularly
(28:34):
than NASCAR does, so I don't knowif we're there yet to go full EV.
Maybe there is that middle ground ofhybrid where you, you have both and
you have less risk to the drivers, tothe track, to the vehicles themselves.
Yeah, just the idea of how todeal with an accident with an EV.
Rescue crews wouldn't be able tonecessarily use the jaws of life because
there have been cases where the jaws oflife can actually risks of electrocution.
(28:58):
Emergency crews have to learn specificallyhow to deal with EV incidents.
And, I hate to say it, from the opticsperspective Two or three EVs colliding
at Talladega will not have the same kindof, harden the language here, explosive
effect of cars that are running internalcombustion gasoline powered motors.
(29:19):
We see all those photographs of thecars that are on fire and sliding
down the wall and down the banking.
That's not going to be asreadily visible with an EV.
There are so many differentfactors playing into that.
But, The culture is going that way.
It's something that NASCAR isgoing to have to confront here.
Seriously, very soon.
I just like the sound of 40 V8motors going around Talladega.
(29:42):
I don't think I could get usedto EVs going around Talladega.
It just wouldn't sound the same.
In an interview with Bloomberg.
back over the summer and the writerwas talking about how Dodge was ceasing
manufacture of gasoline powered internalcombustion muscle cars, chargers, and
some of their sort of higher end products.
And this idea that I guess you canactually flip a switch in the car and
(30:05):
make it sound like an internal combustionmotor so that if you really miss the
sound of big iron under the hood,burning gasoline, you can essentially
Tweak the sound of the car so that itcopies that particular kind of resonance
as opposed to just this kind of whooshgoing by you on the highway world.
Rally Cross went in that direction.
(30:27):
They switched to full EV backin 22, 21, and the pushback
from the fans were the racing's.
Very exciting, but it doesn't.
Sound as exciting anymore and alsoif they have a crash they do this in
endurance racing as well There'll bea red light will flash on and that
will say something is damaged inthe electrics It is now dangerous.
This car must stop immediately Butbased on what you were saying about
(30:49):
cultures going EV way and so on andso forth Would you argue that NASCAR?
Pushes society forward, or doesit more react to what's going on?
There's that push and pull of tradition.
You get those fans who don'twant anything to change.
They want the NASCAR of 1960,1970 to be the NASCAR of 2025.
(31:09):
And that's just not going to be the case.
And what some fans tend to forgetis that those good old days
weren't really all that good.
I mean, when you had races where thewinning driver was one or two laps
ahead of the second place driver,that's what people are saying, you
know, we want that kind of racing.
Well, I don't think they do, youknow, you're not going to see finishes
(31:32):
like that, where you have a carthat's a lap ahead of everybody else.
On the evening news or on ESPNSports Center, you're going to see
the photo finishes where you've gotthree cars crossing the line within
literally inches of each other.
That's where the excitement comes in,and that's where a lot of new fans
are becoming interested in the sport,but it's that old traditional guard,
(31:53):
that kind of old school NASCAR nation.
They don't want the new technology.
They don't want.
The new rules, people have beencomplaining about this playoff
system and you got to win to getin and it's all about points.
That wasn't like it used to be.
Yeah.
Well, it used to be that Dale Earnhardtwould win the national championship two
weeks before the last race of the season.
(32:14):
So I guess it becomes this idea of howdo you define what good competition is?
How do you define what excitement is?
And that changes with our culture.
We become desensitized tocertain things over time.
Okay.
But the EV question, it's going to requirefundamental change throughout the sport.
It's going to changethe way teams operate.
It's going to change the way driversthink about their on track behavior.
(32:38):
What do you do when youhave to change a battery?
Like right now, I guess, Formula E, youhave two cars, at least you used to,
and you would just simply swap cars.
Are they going to do that in NASCAR?
It's still uncharted territory.
The sanctioning body, I think, is tryingto sort of think in that direction,
start moving in that direction.
But again, there's going to be somereal criticism coming back from
(32:59):
those old school fans who they don'twant to see that big brother control
mechanism coming in, even thoughthat's what NASCAR has been since 1948.
Bill France was a benevolent dictator.
That's the way he operated.
It was his show.
So those two attitudes probably aren'tgoing to play well together over time.
Mark, that was terrific as always.
(33:20):
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Ken.
Thank you, everyone.
This episode is brought to youin part by the International
Motor Racing Research Center.
Its charter is to collect,share, and preserve the history
of motorsports, spanningcontinents, eras, and race series.
The center's collection embodiesthe speed, drama, and camaraderie
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(33:42):
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